1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,840 Hello and welcome to tracks of our quiz. 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,560 My name is Andy Gott and each episode I chat to a fascinating 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,160 queer person about their relationship with music via one 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,320 song, one album and one artist that have each soundtrack their 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,480 life. In August 2025, the former 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,960 sports player Mitch Brown participated in an interview 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,400 with a popular Australian news podcast in which he came out as 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,440 a bisexual man. Mitch was the first male player 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:41,600 in Australian Football Rules or the AFL in its 130 year history 10 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,360 to come out. Now, listeners of this podcast 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,160 probably don't need to be told why this is significant or holds 12 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:51,440 weight, but I was captivated by Mitch's interview and the news 13 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:53,960 cycle that unfolded here in Australia afterwards. 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,920 The interview is relatively short and I do highly recommend 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,120 you listen to it if you haven't. I've linked to it in the show 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,120 notes. But the sheer enormity of the 17 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:07,520 moment and the weight on Mitch's shoulders is tangibly lifted 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,880 with that conversation. Unlike the relatively 19 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,640 progressive, welcoming spaces found in female team sports, 20 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,240 queerness in male sports remains fascinatingly low. 21 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,440 I remember the ripples back in the UK caused by rugby player 22 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,880 Gareth Edwards coming out in 2009 and more recently the 23 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,440 football soccer player Josh Cavallo coming out in 2021. 24 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,800 But just statistically speaking, we know there are so many more 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,360 players in various sports who clearly don't feel comfortable 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,280 being their authentic selves. And Mitch himself acknowledges 27 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,320 that it took him 10 years after actually leaving the sport to 28 00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:46,680 come out. So the frontier of a current 29 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,200 player coming out remains. And Speaking of frontiers, a 30 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,200 public figure, let's be real, a male public figure coming out as 31 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,520 bisexual full stop is huge. And Mitch speaks beautifully of 32 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,960 the support that he's received from both his current partner 33 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,000 Lou, and his ex partner and the mother of his children. 34 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,080 In this moment, For those of us who aren't entirely convinced of 35 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,640 how significant this all is, I point you to an incident that 36 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:13,840 has actually happened since Mitch and I had this 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,480 conversation. While attending a recent Lady 38 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,240 Gaga concert in Melbourne with his partner, Mitch was 39 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,600 confronted by journalists from a major media outlet in the 40 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,080 bathroom who insisted that they don't believe that Mitch is 41 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,120 bisexual and that he needed to prove it to them. 42 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,840 At best frankly bizarre, and at worst a revolting reminder of 43 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,760 how insidious biphobia and homophobia is behind closed 44 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,720 doors, even if they're the doors of a Lady Gaga concert bathroom. 45 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaking of music, however, I was really keen to chat to Mitch 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,880 as my first sports player on Tracks of Our Queers. 47 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,240 It thrills me to confirm he nailed the brief with some 48 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,280 fantastic selections and a beautifully generous open 49 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,360 conversation. So let's get into it. 50 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,320 Tracks of our Queers is firmly and proudly A1 Queer Band. 51 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,720 So if you enjoy this episode, you can buy me a coffee. 52 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,440 LinkedIn the episode show notes. Your support covers the costs 53 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,600 associated with the show and it helps me rely a little less on 54 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,960 my day job. And thank you very much in 55 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,520 advance. All right, over to Mitch. 56 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,000 Mitch Brown, welcome to Tracks of our quiz. 57 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,560 Hey, thank you very much for having us on. 58 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,080 I've been looking forward to this one. 59 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,600 I bloody love music and it's a real pleasure to be able to talk 60 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,000 to someone about it. I imagine that the last few 61 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,560 months have been somewhat of a whirlwind for you, and you would 62 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,280 have been asked many questions on a range of subjects. 63 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,920 But today, like you just referenced, we're here to talk 64 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,360 primarily about music. And how are you feeling about 65 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:50,640 that? It's like when you're those 66 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,480 moments where you like you take, you don't even realise you could 67 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,000 be working away at work or whatever and you just take that 68 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,200 real deep breath and you're like extra oxygen and just let go. 69 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,000 I don't never been good at describing things, but I can 70 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,480 visualise them and that's the feeling of coming on today and 71 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,160 having a talk about music. Obviously I've been asked a lot 72 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,280 about the football a little bit. Half of my stories are being 73 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,560 like, hey, I'm it's the human and I want people to know that 74 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,200 my sexuality is only one part of me. 75 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:22,040 I'm so much more to that, and hopefully I can express that in 76 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,800 this episode. And you know, Andy, music for me 77 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,440 has been such a big part of my life. 78 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,440 It's not only just the sounds, the sounds good. 79 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:36,440 You know, I love the beats. I love getting lost, but I it's 80 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:42,360 just like with tastes and sounds and smells, the songs or sounds 81 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,360 that have meant so much to me, I've been able to attach emotion 82 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:48,960 to that. And the emotion has been a 83 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,720 result of an experience or an incident or a time in my life. 84 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,280 And that's the best thing about music. 85 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,800 I couldn't give you a specific genre that I like. 86 00:04:56,840 --> 00:05:00,880 It's more that the song in that present time, there's been a 87 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,800 specific song that will be that nostalgia, that smell, that 88 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:09,000 taste for me in this time. Someone asked me this question a 89 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,040 couple of weeks ago and I was like, Oh my God, it's that song 90 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,560 that will define this period of my life. 91 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,080 So that's a little bit of a sneak peek, but I'm happy to 92 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,760 share it because I actually haven't shared it with anyone 93 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,640 yet. But yeah, it means a lot. 94 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,000 And it's so bloody refreshing to talk about music, love talking 95 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,000 about sport, football, love the game. 96 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,800 I love being able to say I'm a bisexual man. 97 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,360 It's so refreshing. I've been holding onto that one 98 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,520 for so bloody long. And so all that stuff, 99 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,120 everything but food. We can't talk about food. 100 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,960 It's a separate podcast. I promise not to. 101 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,800 Why don't we go back to the very beginning? 102 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,080 I would love to know what was playing at home when you were 103 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,040 growing up. What were your parents maybe 104 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,960 listening to? When you close your eyes and 105 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,800 think about growing up at home, What's the soundtrack? 106 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,840 It's actually quite timely because yesterday I'm based in 107 00:05:56,840 --> 00:06:00,680 Melbourne and it was quite rainy yesterday and we're at this 108 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:05,600 winery and it just started belting down and we jumped into 109 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,440 the car. I had my two boys there, we 110 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,160 weren't driving. We had a glass of wine in there 111 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,120 and we're like, all right, we're at this beautiful winery. 112 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,600 It is absolutely bucketing down. But we're in our car and the 113 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,640 boys are going bananas. And whilst me and my partner 114 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,200 Lou, we're trying to have this nice little drink on the 115 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,680 weekend, put the music on it just as it does it hooked up to 116 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:31,000 my phone straight away and Midnight Oil started playing 117 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:48,440 and it brought me back to my childhood, my mum and dad. 118 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,320 I was really great. We had the big recording thing. 119 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:53,360 I don't even know what it's called. 120 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,960 I think we put the needle down that on the record. 121 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,400 We lived out in the country. They played a lot of music, the 122 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,000 cassettes, but Midnight all played Beds are burning like 123 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,800 blue sky mine and it just brought me back. 124 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:11,040 Dad, back in the back in the day loved like Cold Chisel. 125 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:25,680 He's a spitting image of Sting. So, and why not? 126 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,840 He loves Sting. He's a bit older now, but I had 127 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,240 a hot dad. Dad has that sort of Nordic 128 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,320 blonde kind of thing when he was younger. 129 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,680 He's bald now. But yeah, so a lot of that 130 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,640 music. I know that sport was always a 131 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,400 huge part of your life, but were you ever the kind of boy to go 132 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,200 and spend any money you had on your own CD? 133 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,480 Did you ever go and buy ACD for just yourself? 134 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,760 We never got pocket money each week, but every Christmas or 135 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,160 whatever birthday you'd get the the famous card and you open up 136 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,000 and you get $5 notice from grandma or grandpa and you would 137 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,640 you'd go down to, we live near Ballarat and you go into the 138 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:04,360 Wendary Shopping Centre and spend all your money on the 139 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,000 latest pop music. At the time my brother and I 140 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,680 loved Backstreet Boys and all those type of things. 141 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,160 The iPod sort of era didn't come into it. 142 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,640 It was more like, remember Limewire? 143 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,760 I saw someone do this all day, you know, put your song on MSN 144 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,680 Messenger thing. You put like, and you're like, 145 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:28,200 I'm depressed at the moment. I was like, Good Charlotte, you 146 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,720 put the lyrics on the and just, yeah, so I did that. 147 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,600 And I remember one of my good mates, James, had the OG brick 148 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,720 iPod and it was so cool. I wish I could have that right 149 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:40,720 now. It was really cool. 150 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:46,040 I don't ever want to be let go. I don't want to do the things 151 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:47,720 you do. I'm never going to. 152 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,040 Hear the words. You say I got a shuffle, one of 153 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,120 those, it was actually USB stick type. 154 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,040 It was like the shuffle. And then I just put one of my 155 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,480 good friends, Matt, through our high school year. 156 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,800 We both loved you too. He loved it and he knew how to 157 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,640 burn CDs. And Matt made me a mix. 158 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,480 And you'd keep making me mixes. It was actually romantic. 159 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,320 It was really bloody nice. And that's where I learned a 160 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,200 whole nother genre. A friend started to introduce me 161 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,200 into this other world of music. Song to blur bittersweet swim 162 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:33,600 feet. There's something very, very 163 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,400 special about a mixtape. And I guess people were making 164 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,800 them in the 80s for each other on cassettes. 165 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,720 And then in the late 90s, you would have been able to burn CDs 166 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:42,920 like your friend was doing for you. 167 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,760 And I still think today, now, you know, sharing a Spotify 168 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,680 playlist or something, it still carries that special. 169 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,280 Someone has taken the time to put together a bit of a journey 170 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,760 for you. Someone really wants you to hear 171 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,640 these songs in this order, and it's lovely when you hear things 172 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,800 that you already know and love, and it's lovely when you 173 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,360 discover new things too. There's a special place for a 174 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,200 mixtape. Andy I couldn't agree more. 175 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,320 I think that's why it's like the ultimate romantic gesture, 176 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,600 friendship. It's like I know you, I know you 177 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,560 enjoy this, I know you enjoy this, in this order. 178 00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:23,120 Obviously receiving that, but then having the time to think 179 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:28,000 about someone and think about what type of music they would 180 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:34,280 enjoy and put it together is also a beautiful process. 181 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,600 This is the one thing I love about music. 182 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:38,560 I'm a bit soft here and I'm with music. 183 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,880 I love the emotion of it, especially whether it's in 184 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,560 relationships or telling something to a friend. 185 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:50,200 For me, hiding something in my sexuality for so long and you 186 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:57,240 just don't have the words or you afraid or feared apps like 187 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,920 verbalising something. What you can do and feel 188 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,760 comfortable in doing is being able to tell someone how you 189 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,280 feel, whether it's about yourself inside for me, my 190 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,360 sexuality or how you feel about them. 191 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,360 If you don't have the courage or the words to explain that to 192 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,720 them. Like that's where music comes 193 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:21,000 into it and song and lyrics. I've done that recently and even 194 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,120 with my partner lose how we're able to try and find it will 195 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,000 describe what's going on because emotions can be horrible and and 196 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,360 terrible and but emotions I feel like one of the best things as 197 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,680 part of the human experience. But I do a lot of work with 198 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,880 First Nations people and they have a lot of language that the 199 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,960 English vocabulary can't explain. 200 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,360 It's like these feelings and I feel music can do that as well. 201 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,360 Music can explain things that you're feeling or make sense 202 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,480 inside of you in your heart. It's weird because songs are in 203 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,800 English and we have lyrics, but there is also the tone and the 204 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,080 melody that can make sense and explain to someone how you're 205 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,200 feeling and what's going on inside. 206 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,200 That's the deepness. I can't play music, but I'm a 207 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:11,360 participant in the beautiful world of music and song and the 208 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,720 artistry of that. Honestly, it's one of the best 209 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,800 things about this life. Couldn't agree more. 210 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,880 I think you're the right guess for tracks of our queers. 211 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:22,840 I'm glad we're having this conversation. 212 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:28,320 What would you mind sharing a recent song of importance or 213 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,000 track of importance between your partner Lou and yourself in the 214 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,560 last few months? This is a song that I'm going to 215 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:37,200 share that came about prior to all this. 216 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,000 I mean, I, I've Lou Lou was a woman for your listeners added, 217 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,360 you know, for people on the outside to try and make sense 218 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,960 and understand about my sexuality and even around 219 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,440 bisexuality and what that means. So it's been everything on each 220 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,480 other. But how this song relates to us 221 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,400 a couple of years ago, we both didn't want to tell each other 222 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:01,880 how we felt. It's a classic love story. 223 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,200 We didn't have the words and we had fear around that. 224 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:09,600 And this song was able to speak that to each other and be a way 225 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:11,280 to go, Hey, this is how I feel about you. 226 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:24,720 It was Blood Bank by Bonneville. And there's a line in there that 227 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,320 goes and I'm going to get this wrong, but it tells about like 228 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,200 I'm sitting and I don't know how to tell you, but this is how we 229 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,520 both this is what I want to tell you. 230 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,240 And it's like love. And and anyway, so does that. 231 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,280 I encourage anyone that's listening to go and look up the 232 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,240 lyrics of blood Bank, you understand. 233 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:48,640 And there's this specific line that I went through marriage 234 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,880 separation 3 odd years ago and you know, 2 little young kids 235 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,080 and like bring so much emotion. My former wife Shay, she's been 236 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,240 amazing and all this as well. So we're amazing. 237 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,800 But there's a line that talks about those Christmas morning 238 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,800 creeks and we know what that sounds like. 239 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,880 And you know that summer, that light breeze, like it visualises 240 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,720 if you close your eyes, that light breeze. 241 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:19,280 And we're just lying in bed next to each other and the windows 242 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,360 open and you can see the sheer curtains just waving. 243 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:27,200 And we're in a country property. And upstairs you hear that like 244 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:32,600 the creaks of my 2 little boys just wandering around trying to 245 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,800 like scampering around the Christmas tree, excited that 246 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,400 Santa's arrived. Whether Christmas is a thing for 247 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:44,000 you or not, that means like, just like this, like this sense 248 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,880 of joy and contentment, Those lines struck A chord with me 249 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,880 relating it to my love for my partner and everything. 250 00:14:52,880 --> 00:15:07,320 So that's that's a huge one. I'm not going to retread on all 251 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,480 of your incredibly articulate responses that you gave in the 252 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,160 Daily AUS interview. I will have already said by the 253 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,680 time that people are listening to this podcast, I love strongly 254 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,760 advise that people go and listen to that first if they haven't 255 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,560 already, because it's such an incredible interview. 256 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,960 And I thought that you're, while your interviewer was amazing, I 257 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:29,240 could hear how composed you were and the thought and work you put 258 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,080 into it beforehand. And you actually, you referenced 259 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,800 earlier in our chat this exhale that you do. 260 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,400 You do an exhale, I believe, when you're asked how you're 261 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,480 feeling or how you are to be there. 262 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,480 And Mitch, I was listening to that yesterday and I wanted to 263 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,440 give you a hug through the airwaves. 264 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,440 There was something so vulnerable but strong in that 265 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,840 big exhale. It was like, this could be hard. 266 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,800 You've got maybe some apprehensions, but you're 267 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,800 confident that you're doing the right thing, you're in the right 268 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,640 place. That's how it sounded to me. 269 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,640 Thanks for that. That that's, I mean, well, I, 270 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,280 for someone that you know, I, it's like coming out is so, so 271 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,360 aggressive with straight people. You don't have to come out and 272 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,160 to your parents say, hey, mom and dad, I, I sleep with women. 273 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,600 I want you to be OK with that. It's aggressive if it's 274 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,800 something that I concealed for so long, even though I could 275 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,120 speak openly about it within my own, you know, for my partner 276 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:33,520 and my own friendship, community and group for years before the 277 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,120 interview, saying it out loud. And to be honest, Andy, even the 278 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:41,680 weeks after the interview, saying the word bisexual and 279 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,160 saying it in front of other men, you know, I did this talk with 280 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,600 this petroleum company. Petroleum Company. 281 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,680 Get that corporate dollar. I didn't sell my soul. 282 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:55,120 I didn't sell my soul. Forgive me, but it it was like 283 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,040 even to get up there and talk. I remember Lou was there and my 284 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,480 partner and she goes, how did you feel about talking in front 285 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:07,440 of those men that you're attracted to men And then the 286 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,200 words bisexual. And it's still like, yeah, 287 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,680 that's why I like, you know, early days, it was like this, 288 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,079 You know, that's why I took a deep breath and was like, oh, 289 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:21,560 man, I just wanted to say that out loud for so long and feel 290 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,839 unashamedly proud for so long. I had these questions popping up 291 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,720 and I became like the expert. If you do something, just 292 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:35,040 remember, few were good on Excel spreadsheets for 30 years or 35 293 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,200 or 36 years, you become bloody good at it. 294 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,920 And if you know, for me lying to myself or suppressing or making 295 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,040 myself feel like it, but you're definitely straight, don't even 296 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,520 think about that. I became really good at it. 297 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,760 And the lying becomes truth in a weird, warped way. 298 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,320 You say things and they sound true. 299 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,560 Growing up, I was, you know, had this amazing brother, twin 300 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,600 brother that was like the epitome of like a man and I just 301 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,200 wanted to belong and be with him and be like him. 302 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,960 Any curiosity, feelings, there's times to explore or whatever. 303 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:08,600 For me, it was attracted to girls. 304 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,200 But you know, I I was attracted to boys and I didn't want to 305 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,040 like I was like, oh, well, I don't how do I explain that? 306 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,680 I don't know And I couldn't speak to anyone about it. 307 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,160 And then you go, well, I don't really want to have these 308 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,560 things. And especially when you hear 309 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,760 somewhat trymophobia around every day and just like, well, 310 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,320 OK, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm just crazy because 311 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,840 we're all weird and wacky in our own heads anyway, so maybe I am 312 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,000 crazy. So let's yeah, let's double down 313 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,000 on that straightness. Yeah, let's go out and try and 314 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,760 hook up with many women as possible and do all that stuff. 315 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,160 You have your own version of internalised homophobia. 316 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,920 And had that trying to feel like I needed to belong in my circles 317 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,080 or feel comfortable doing that. So to be able to do it now and 318 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,240 to be able to say out loud that I like guys and I'm attracted to 319 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,000 guys, I have an amazing partner and I'm not going around sleep 320 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,120 with men at the moment. I've got a partner anyway. 321 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,200 Exclusive. Here on Tracks of Our Queen, No, 322 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,720 I'm hearing you. I'm hearing you. 323 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,120 I'm picking up what you're putting down and I will say that 324 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,520 I am happy and slightly ashamed. I don't know. 325 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,240 But this Saturday I turned 35 and that means that for over 326 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,600 half my life I've actually been out. 327 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,440 I remember coming out to my mum at 17. 328 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:29,880 Over half my life I've been in this state of believing that I 329 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:32,280 can tell the truth to people about the way I am. 330 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,120 It's an amazing feeling. But just the other day, I had 331 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,680 this really boring financial conversation with someone who 332 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,360 works at a bank and they asked me, am I single or am I 333 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,440 partnered? It reminded me that for as long 334 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,680 as society is the way it is, that won't have been the last 335 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,680 time that you come out, Mitch. Like people, queer people 336 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,840 continue to come out through their lives. 337 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,840 And I thought of that when you mentioned that anecdote about 338 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,800 coming out is so aggressive. I had to come out to tell a bank 339 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,360 manager that I've got a partner who's a guy and I came out 17 340 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:07,840 years ago. It's so weird. 341 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,840 Anyway, I'm going to try and get us back on track so. 342 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,880 This is not my journey to discuss, we're here to discuss 343 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,880 yours. But I do feel very honoured that 344 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,000 someone of your sporting achievements is on my We Humble 345 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,920 Queer Music podcast. And I guess I'd be remiss not to 346 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,480 mention that women's sport has actually been a gateway for me 347 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,400 into sport myself. And it ties into a lot of these 348 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:34,320 themes that I've heard you articulate and what I've been 349 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,720 thinking around queerness and masculinity in sport. 350 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,200 I come from a really sports mad family in the UK. 351 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,640 My whole family love sports but I was never really able to tap 352 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,080 into that passion myself. I sometimes think about going to 353 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,560 football games with my dad and I remember the confusion and 354 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,240 sometimes alarm I would feel seeing my dad and his friends, 355 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,160 who are all really lovely men, become different versions of 356 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,680 themselves in those hyper charged, testosterone heavy 357 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,120 environments. I remember even then feeling 358 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:04,760 like this wasn't an environment that I particularly felt safe 359 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,400 in, not physically. I knew that I was physically 360 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,200 safe, but there there was something else going on and that 361 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,720 was before I even realised that I was queer. 362 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:11,920 And then a couple of years ago, I started to connect those dots 363 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,960 when it was the Women's World Cup came to Australia, the 364 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,640 soccer I'm talking about, and I went along to a game with some 365 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,120 work friends and had the most incredible experience because 366 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:25,000 that hectic testosterone was not in the air. 367 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,440 And I felt like I could just enjoy the creativity and beauty 368 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,040 of this game happening in front of me. 369 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,040 And I've since spoken to wonderful queer sports fans 370 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,960 through this podcast and elsewhere who've doubled down on 371 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,600 how different that atmosphere is at women's sports games. 372 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,640 So I'm clearly still evolving my feelings on it, but knowing that 373 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,840 from what I hear back in the UK soccer football games, the 374 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,640 atmosphere is slowly improving to the point where little girls 375 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,320 want to go to games with their dad. 376 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,440 And I think partially that's because of the increased 377 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,120 visibility of women's sport as well. 378 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,200 But all of this contributes to like a rising tide lifting all 379 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,640 ships kind of feel and creating a safer, more inclusive 380 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,440 atmosphere for all, opens the door to more fans. 381 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,720 And what you have done, the reason I mentioned this with you 382 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,640 is because what you've done is such a enormous step forward in 383 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,120 that direction too. And we might not fully 384 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:20,800 understand the effects for months or years to come, but I 385 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,600 truly believe that the step you've taken is going to welcome 386 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,680 in so many queer and maybe even non queer fans to the sport in 387 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,680 the future. Yeah, Andy, you hit the nail on 388 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,480 the head there for me. There's a couple of parts to 389 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,680 this. I've been so blessed and had so 390 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,800 many amazing women in my life for my mom growing up, to my 391 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,640 ex-wife to, you know, the, the world that she was in with her 392 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,120 professional sport, with netball. 393 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,080 And now my partner Lou, I have the opportunity here in 394 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,440 Australia to talk to the AFLW players. 395 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:58,600 So the women AFL footballers and they had a pride round and the 396 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,040 men don't celebrate pride but the women do. 397 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,800 And I had an opportunity to speak to all of the players in a 398 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,680 couple of clubs and I just wanted to go there. 399 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,240 And I was like, one of these players want to listen to me. 400 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,200 I just want to go there and literally say thank you. 401 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:16,440 I mentioned this before when I was playing, I had a lack of 402 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,680 queer role models in my own sport. 403 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,760 I had like, you know, I, you know, looked up to Daniel 404 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,040 Kowalski, who is a big swimmer that was forced to come out, but 405 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,120 he come out and he's amazing human being. 406 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,240 I had him that I looked up to. And there was others, especially 407 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,040 in the music industry, but in in the the men's particularly AFLI 408 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,320 had no one. You know, there was Ian Roberts, 409 00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:42,800 Isaac Humphreys in the NBL and Josh Cavallo in the A League 410 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,800 Soccer, but I had no one I could relate to. 411 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,800 But the W players, they became my role models. 412 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,680 It was just a shame for me because I finished up in 2016 413 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,040 and the first inaugural game of West competition was in January 414 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,080 2017. So I missed out having them as 415 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,280 part of my club. But I continued to to look up to 416 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,600 them and, and they, you know, they, in terms of, you know, I 417 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,320 connected my identity strongly with obviously being a 418 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:15,040 footballer for 10 years, even after I finished the space they 419 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,600 created and everything they brought in allowed fans to show 420 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,520 up as themselves. I just admired so much. 421 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,760 And I've said this before, but I wouldn't have come out with the 422 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,720 confidence that I did if the W competition didn't exist. 423 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,320 And if those players don't show up as they do don't come out. 424 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,880 So I've got everything to owed to them and the type of 425 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,760 atmosphere or environment women's sports create. 426 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,840 It is that like ultimate sense of safety and inclusivity and 427 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:49,840 fun and and joy. You know, it does invite the AFL 428 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,560 here in Australia and either have this game like Australia's 429 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:58,720 game, Australia, Australia, Australia's game, but I don't 430 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,560 think it is at the moment. Especially the men's 431 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,800 competition. It's not inclusive to everyone. 432 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,560 One of the things that I've had a lot of people reach out to me 433 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,840 or me up in the street and say, hey, I'm part of the queer 434 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,480 community, but I don't really really follow if I've actually 435 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,480 followed it more in the last couple weeks since you've come 436 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,680 out than before. But what you've done is really 437 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,520 cool and I really want to start following now. 438 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,040 I hope there's a future and that's what I'm doing. 439 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,760 I'm trying to create a safe space, continue to talk so all 440 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:28,400 people can come to the footy and feel safe and feel like they 441 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,920 belong and they can cheer for amazing role models, men and 442 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,920 women and everything. So, you know, tackling, I guess 443 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,320 a safe inclusive space. Homophobia on the fields. 444 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:46,360 One thing with the players, but you know, it's like in the 445 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:49,280 stands, that's where I want to get my hands dirty. 446 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,200 That's where you can make a difference. 447 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:57,000 And I believe like someone that is I I'm so privileged that I'm 448 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,280 straight presentable. I can walk to the MCG, the men's 449 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,280 game when it's packed and there's drunk predominantly men 450 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,960 and no one's got to really yell at me or like even bat an island 451 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,880 at me. But for someone else, maybe a 452 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,520 young queer person that's presenting queer and you know, 453 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,040 that's just not a safe place. Like why would you want to go to 454 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,960 the MCG? Like, why would you want to do 455 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,880 that? Even if you love the game, Like 456 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,440 things have to change. And if there's ever like a 457 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,440 nucleus of what that looks like here, you just head down to your 458 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,040 local AFLW game, you know, safe space. 459 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:38,040 No one's really swearing. Everyone's pretty happy, really 460 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,000 inclusive, supportive. No one's bad mouthing the 461 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,040 players on the field. If you're looking for how to do 462 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,520 it, if the men's competition are looking how to do it, look to 463 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:47,760 them. And other sports. 464 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:49,920 I'm not an expert. They're already doing it. 465 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,160 They're the trail blade. So how you say it? 466 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:52,720 Yeah. Trail Blaze. 467 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,480 Beautifully sad. We better get into this music. 468 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,600 I asked you to pick a few selections who in some way 469 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,720 resonate or soundtrack parts of your own queer journey, and I 470 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,440 can't wait to hear about the very first. 471 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,520 So tell me about the track you picked Mitch and why. 472 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,880 So Andy, I don't want to preface this so I can try to not like 473 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,440 these are the the most queer coded 3 choices I could ever 474 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,560 done. I mean, that's great. 475 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,880 My partner Lloyd Lou was like, and he's probably already talked 476 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,600 about this with guests before these songs. 477 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,480 So the first one that I picked is so this is it is Kylie 478 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,400 Minogue and it's on and on at this. 479 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:49,480 I think we all know this one. And when you when you you're on 480 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,440 a night that could go either way and you're like, this song comes 481 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,440 on, let's go. This is a song for me. 482 00:27:54,440 --> 00:28:02,320 And I'll tell you why. When I was growing up, I, I had 483 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,320 these, I was curious and whatever and I and I really 484 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,680 loved Kylie Minogue music and I was really ashamed, embarrassed 485 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,120 to tell anyone. So I would pretend that I'm 486 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:17,840 going to the toilet, close all the doors, get my dis disman, 487 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,640 put Kylie Minogue in there because mum had it and turn off 488 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,560 the light in the toilet. Oh, I actually didn't need to go 489 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,720 to the toilet, mind me, but I was just sitting on sitting on 490 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,800 the toilet, lights Kylie Minogue blurring. 491 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,000 And it was pitch black in there because we lived out in the 492 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,520 country and I just let myself go and like just really feel it and 493 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,920 dance. And it was like this, like no 494 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,280 one was watching. I was in the toilet alone, dark. 495 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,080 And I could really fucking like express myself and it was so 496 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,520 exhilarating. And, you know, it was more than 497 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,920 just that song, but that was one of the songs that I really just 498 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,200 used to let go and no one could see me. 499 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,760 And it was so much fun and, and brought me so much joy. 500 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,000 And it was something for me I could connect to. 501 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,080 What? What age was the Mitch who was 502 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,600 out in the country dancing with his discman to on a Night like 503 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,240 This by Kylie Minogue? 12:00 or 12:13, I think, yeah. 504 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,680 I really, really love that I where do we even start with 505 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,000 Kylie? I'll try and keep it to this 506 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,800 song specifically. I remember also loving this song 507 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,280 around a similar age to you. That's why I was curious what 508 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,760 age you were. And I certainly would have loved 509 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,080 this song before I knew who I was or what my identity was. 510 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,000 There's something about, and I'm also not, I can't speak the 511 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,640 language of music like you, you know, like we talked earlier, we 512 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,720 can just talk about the emotions that it brings up. 513 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,840 But I believe that this is a big quintessential Kylie banger 514 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,800 because it's a big dance song, but it's like minor chords. 515 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,760 So it's got a bit of longing. And like you said, the night 516 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,200 could go either way. There's like a the song shimmers 517 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,760 and it's not this like totally joyful experience. 518 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,920 There's euphoria there, but it's a bit of something else going on 519 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,320 there too. And I do think that special 520 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,560 something is what queer people can tap into and certainly non 521 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,480 queer people can as well. It's not an exclusive thing, but 522 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:31,400 there's something in tracks like this where a younger version of 523 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,200 us can we're almost like hearing signals. 524 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,720 And it was the moment for me, I was able to do like these ants 525 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,520 moves, but like, but like men would consider quite feminine 526 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,480 and quite queer, but like, that's what this evoked in me. 527 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,600 And I was like, really nice. I'm like really good at those 528 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,800 kind of dance moves. I'm a big guy. 529 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,080 Like I'm tall. It's a baby giraffe kind of 530 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,920 thing. But I still do this day. 531 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,600 I love that kind of music. I love the songs that do have 532 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:28,240 peaks and troughs and and speed and slow down and you know that 533 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,400 that that's the journey and and not just this song that goes 534 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,160 like, you know, like that. The other thing I wanted to 535 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,320 mention is, you know, I think you hinted at it, that Kylie to 536 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,640 say you like Kylie can often be a flag in itself. 537 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:44,040 You might as well get a rainbow flag out. 538 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,280 People like, OK, this this person, if they're a man, 539 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,680 they're probably queer. Not always. 540 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,720 But you know, and I've actually spoken to queer people on this 541 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,760 very podcast who've even been, they've kind of admitted some 542 00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,560 shame that they felt even once they'd come out about their love 543 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,440 for Kylie, because Kylie can represent different things to 544 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,160 people. She can represent this kind of 545 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,440 unadulterated joy, freedom, euphoria. 546 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,160 I think about my friend Matt who came on this podcast and talked 547 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,920 about how he used to define himself as not a Kylie gay 548 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,840 because a Kylie gay is a specific type of gay. 549 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,360 When he's not that gay, he's a different gay. 550 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,480 And then he went through this journey where he was like, no, 551 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,440 no, I can be all all of these gays. 552 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,040 I can be all of these people at once. 553 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,920 I can like Kylie and it doesn't mean anything. 554 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,840 Can I? I say that because we've already 555 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,040 talked a little bit about internalised homophobia. 556 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,000 And sometimes queer people can still carry a bit of 557 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,160 internalised homophobia. One of the ways that shows up is 558 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,040 how you feel about listening to someone like Kylie Minogue. 559 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,120 It's all, it's all just, it's the reason I do this podcast 560 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,240 really. It's just interests me. 561 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,960 Yeah, I mean, that's where we have to be a little bit kinder 562 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,520 to people and ourselves. The human experience is so 563 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,160 different just because one day, like she said, you like, feel a 564 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:02,880 certain way, the next day you might. 565 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,640 And that's OK. Like, it's a human experience. 566 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,680 We can't be so binary. For me, that's a really 567 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,640 important song. And because it was so against 568 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,960 what my environments told me that I was allowed to love. 569 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,120 And, you know, you know, I remember sitting watching the 570 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,680 closing ceremony, the open ceremony of the 2000 Olympic 571 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:23,600 Games. And I was quite young. 572 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,520 She came on that surfboard. Not only the lifeguards that 573 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,200 were holding up quite hot, but if I was sitting there in my 574 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,120 living room and I was like, oh, Kylie, go get it, Kylie. 575 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,680 My brothers might have looked at me and going what the heck, What 576 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:37,760 the hell? We should move on. 577 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,000 What was the next selection you picked and please tell me why? 578 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,640 So this is the album and it's Seal 1994. 579 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,200 Seal, you know, it's like Sting, like no one knows their name. 580 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,720 Seal's the same. I choose this album and I will 581 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,160 tell you why because like Kiss by Roses on this album, 582 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,719 it's just an amazing, beautiful song. 583 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,800 We talk about these moments of like, oh, you look back and you 584 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,800 know, for someone that's coming out a bit later, I could go. 585 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,920 So yeah, Mum was like, we kind of knew back then when you chose 586 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,840 this and this it's it's interesting because, OK, so this 587 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,560 is 94, so I was quite, quite young and this particular 588 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,880 because you share a birthday with my friend brother. 589 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,280 So we get like similar kind of presents at this age. 590 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:42,199 Mum and Dad got us a book each and an album, ACD album each. 591 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,400 And my twin brother who's like the epitome of of of a man 592 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,440 straight guy. He got Jungle Book, which is 593 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,159 quite adventurous story. Jungle Book and Backstreet Boys, 594 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,800 everybody, the Backstreet Boys album around that time. 595 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:00,320 And I got my parents got me Pocahontas. 596 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,800 We need to sit with all the voices up the mountain, paint 597 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:10,160 with all the colours of the wind. 598 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,480 What a film. So good. 599 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:20,960 Pocahontas Princess and Seal. Seal was more to do with than 600 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,600 yours. Maybe a sensitive soul. 601 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,400 The Emotions was my first album and I listened to it over and 602 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,680 over and it sort of helped me, you know, really, that's when I 603 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,760 really started to attach emotion to music. 604 00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:38,600 Seal's beautiful melodies and just really just nice and be 605 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,440 able to just put them in and not just have it in my ears, but 606 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,960 think about what's happening in my life. 607 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,800 For young people, we tend to overthink a lot of things. 608 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,600 When I was young, comparing myself to my brother and how 609 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,920 that made me feel or just heaps of things, I was the first time 610 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:58,720 I was able to sit there and sit with my emotions and, you know, 611 00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:03,040 Seal them. And there's an absolute belter 612 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,120 of a song, Kissed by a Rose, so and so. 613 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,680 That was my first ever album and it means something to me and it 614 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:22,520 still does this day. Well, how do you feel when you 615 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,640 listen to it now? I wonder if were you listening 616 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,120 to it in the run up to I did. I mean, we don't want to talk 617 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,240 about time machines, but if you could ever the closest thing of 618 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:33,600 being able to take yourself right back to the moment. 619 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,720 It doesn't matter if it was 30, you know, for some people it 620 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:40,440 might be a lifetime ago. Music you close your eyes, 621 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,560 brings you right back there. Good, bad, good, bad and ugly. 622 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,600 It can do that. These songs, there are songs out 623 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,800 there that I absolutely love, but I've I have some sad 624 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,600 meanings to it and like I really, it's really hard to 625 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,000 listen to. It's it's a process and I do 626 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,480 love playing some of those songs that do mean a lot. 627 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,000 The other thing that I wanted to pull out a little bit more is 628 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,600 how you and your brother received these different 629 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,880 selections from your parents, and you suspect that maybe 630 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,040 they'd clued on to you being perhaps a little bit more of a 631 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,280 sensitive soul. I really love that parents can 632 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,640 recognise that in their children and parents have a choice to 633 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,640 either, I guess whether encourage isn't the word I'm 634 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,280 looking for. It's almost like foster in a 635 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:26,760 way. Like, you know, you're 636 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,640 expressing these kind of sentiments or emotions and I 637 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,520 think that you're going to enjoy this film, TV show, music, 638 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:38,000 whatever, welcome it in a way. Or you can turn away from it and 639 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,720 almost pretend that your child isn't who they're hinting that 640 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:44,680 they might be, whether they're queer or not. 641 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,400 But especially like sensitive children. 642 00:37:46,720 --> 00:37:49,360 I think about that a lot. I reflect on when my parents did 643 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:52,320 similar things to me. Actually, in this room right 644 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,000 now, I've got a Spice Girls doll, a Jerry Halliwell Ginger 645 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,520 Spice doll, and I'll never this is a story for another time, but 646 00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,760 I'll never forget when it was all I wanted for Christmas. 647 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,280 It was the number one thing I wanted. 648 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,600 And I know at the time that my parents would have been very 649 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,160 cognizant of the optics of giving a six year old boy a 650 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,520 Spice Girls doll would not have been ideal. 651 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,440 But they still gave it to me because they knew it was the 652 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,960 number one thing I wanted and I treasured that ginger spice 653 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,960 doll. And to me, it's symbolic of 654 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,440 maybe a similar story of what you just told. 655 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,680 It's like your parents can either acknowledge and 656 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,240 encourage, or they can turn away and pretend La La la. 657 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:36,400 Yeah, I laugh because one of the other tort songs I had was It's 658 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:55,680 Raining Men. Sorry and Jesus, maybe I should 659 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,440 have known a lot longer. I did anyway, that was. 660 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,200 But yeah, it's, it's beautiful and I like sometimes we can rag 661 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,040 at the older generations and like they don't get it and 662 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,720 whatnot. But there are some amazing 663 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:09,640 people. My parents are, are beautiful 664 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,760 people and, and they are still and I love them. 665 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,640 And you know, that was one of the things like when I came out 666 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,160 and told mum and dad and my brothers and stuff, there was a 667 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,280 sense of sadness and, and bit of grief. 668 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,000 Not, not that homophobia type of sadness or whatever and who I 669 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,360 was, but the fact that, you know, if they, they've known me 670 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,120 since I was born, especially my twin brother, we shared a womb 671 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,480 that, you know, that he might have contributed to an 672 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,800 environment that I couldn't show up as myself. 673 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,360 And I like, I'm just so that's just the truth. 674 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,600 I've got 2 little boys myself. And that was a huge reason for 675 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,080 me to come out publicly and make stance and shine a spotlight on 676 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,200 this for me. I like, I just have a crack with 677 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,520 parenting. I'm not an expert. 678 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,760 I just have a go. But you know, I, I don't, I 679 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,480 don't want to be able to sit down my boys. 680 00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:04,720 When the time's right and have the big speech around, like, 681 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,600 hey, I would accept you no matter who you are. 682 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,760 Big speech. I just want to be able to have 683 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,320 the everyday, like 1 percenters if you like. 684 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,040 If you're going to write, it's football, 1 percenters, everyday 685 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:23,960 signs of respect and safety to show that, hey, I am safe boys, 686 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,760 I talk about women's football and I play Kylie Minogue on Out 687 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,160 Loud on Sunday mornings and we can all have a dance along. 688 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,280 Whether you're queer or straight, as a parent figure or 689 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,320 guardian or adult role model, to young people, it's not about 690 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,120 that big speech moment. It's about modelling those 691 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,640 everyday respects in those one percenters and you will create a 692 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:49,600 space at home or for that young person in your life that they 693 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,920 won't even need to have a coming out moment. 694 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,520 They really won't. You won't need to have a speech 695 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,080 that will just know, you'll know. 696 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:01,520 And this is sense of safety and I do really encourage a lot of 697 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,000 people out there to do that. It's within the movies you 698 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,600 watch, the TV, the language, even when young people aren't 699 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,040 looking, how you talk at the pub with your mates, all those type 700 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:15,120 of things. So you know, that's what I try 701 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,440 and do in my parenting journey. My parents I love so much. 702 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,320 They brought that sense of safety for me even though I 703 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:26,120 couldn't feel I could really show up as or like explore and 704 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,120 then try and answer these feelings I had inside my myself. 705 00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:32,440 I'm sitting here today and I'm really proud of myself and 706 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,760 attribute that to my upbringing and my brother in the way that 707 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,480 people in my life showed up for me and created a safe space for 708 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:52,420 me. All right, we're on to your 709 00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:55,300 final selection. Tell me which artist you picked 710 00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:58,320 and why. So I mean, I feel like this may 711 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,280 be a bit boring, but David Bowie, and I'm allowed to say 712 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,560 this because my first born child is called Bowie. 713 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,880 I have a David Bowie tattoo somewhere here. 714 00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:11,800 So there's a couple of songs that I love, like Under 715 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:25,160 Pressure, which is like a collab with collab with Queen Heroes. 716 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:41,920 Beautiful song. But the thing I love about David 717 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,480 Bowie, and again, this is how I want my boys to grow up and 718 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,800 create is like these Bowie had these like these different 719 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,560 personas that he created, but whether they created or that 720 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,120 were just him and he was able to get a visual sense of them. 721 00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,480 Ziggy Stardust and these things. You could really like the way 722 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:01,960 that I connected with David Bowie. 723 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,040 The artist was being able to be yourself no matter who that was, 724 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,280 where it looked like a really out there alien from the next 725 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,960 universe to another, showing up who you are, being so bloody 726 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,360 proud of that. I've really connect with that 727 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,760 and enjoy that and long for that, jealous of that and 728 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,880 envious of that. So that's why I chose David 729 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,560 Bowie. One of these songs called Space 730 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,680 Odyssey. He's got another song called 731 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,800 Star Man, which I love, but Space Oddity, 732 00:43:41,310 --> 00:43:47,150 I love this song in general. It was released like two or 733 00:43:47,150 --> 00:43:51,600 three days before man landed on the moon, Neil Armstrong in 734 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:57,600 1969, and so became this unofficial anthem for the moon 735 00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,320 landing. It's just about this young 736 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,960 person in space by himself anyway. 737 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,400 The way you spoke about the things that you admire about 738 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,760 Bowie, all of those things to me are freedom. 739 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:13,480 Freedom to be, freedom of choice, freedom to express. 740 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,480 And I can see entirely how that would have been something that 741 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:20,080 you would have craved for a long time with a conscious or 742 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,480 unconsciously. Yeah, I mean, if I used to say 743 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:28,040 like whether it's David Bowie or the the AFLW players that could 744 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,760 really just be proud of their queerness, express their joy as 745 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,400 I was like, oh man, I'm so jealous of that. 746 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,200 But it is freedom and it that was much more than just 747 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,040 queerness, you know, for anyone to be able to show up and be 748 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:46,640 free in who you are, the weird, the wacky, whatever, and just 749 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,320 feel like you can do that and then know that whether you're in 750 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,520 a team or a workplace or a family, you still belong and 751 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,560 people love you. The acceptance is it's just, you 752 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,760 know, it's really there. Like, that's just such like, 753 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:07,440 uplifting what we long for. I think your partner Lou called 754 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,200 it when she hinted that Bowie might have been discussed on 755 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,920 this podcast before. He is a repeated theme and I 756 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,400 love him for that because different people have completely 757 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:17,680 different interpretations of him. 758 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,440 I've had conversations before around whether Bowie actually 759 00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,680 did sleep with guys or not, and ultimately it doesn't really 760 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:29,160 matter because what he represented is so important and 761 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,760 is not up for debate at all. From the beginning of his 762 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,840 career, he was a flag flyer for weirdos and anyone who felt 763 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,200 othered, queer or not, and anyone who felt like they were 764 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,680 outside of what society was telling them was the norm. 765 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,920 So you pair that with the incredible music, because the 766 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,160 music is incredible and there's so much of it, and then that 767 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,640 exquisite sense of cool, and it makes total sense as to why you 768 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,240 would have been drawn to him. Do you have a desert island 769 00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:54,880 Bowie track? I think the hero's one. 770 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,800 I would love to know, Mitch, has your relationship with music 771 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,440 changed at all since you've started embracing this part of 772 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,040 yourself? And maybe I should caveat that 773 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,160 with you've said that you've been out to friends and family 774 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,720 for a lot longer than this interview a few months ago. 775 00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:11,600 So I understand that it's not just a three month process. 776 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,280 It's a good question. There's a lot of music out there 777 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,600 and artists I used to listen to and whereas unconsciously or 778 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,800 consciously, like a little bit embarrassed to, you know, I, I 779 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:27,080 was a one that I could love and love dancing to what men would 780 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,120 consider probably gay tracks. I used to love doing that, but I 781 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,560 could play that persona and have a laugh. 782 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,160 Now it's like, no, I can actually go and dance there and 783 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,800 fucking mean it. You know, it's that queer joy 784 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,400 like you and I love going to the the gay clubs here and having to 785 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,720 dance and fucking just going for it. 786 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:48,920 And like just I, I love closing my eyes and getting lost in the 787 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,360 moment with music, whether it's concert or whatever. 788 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,640 I just love it so much. I close my eyes and feel the 789 00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,680 music. Not much has changed, but even 790 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:59,840 more so now that I'm really owning my identity and I'm 791 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,560 really proud about it. Like I can feel the strength of 792 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:07,040 my connection to different particular type of music now. 793 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:12,120 And you know, if if Kylie on and I this came roaring out first 794 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,560 one there. I love getting lost in music and 795 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,680 what it means. I really look forward to what 796 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,720 type of songs I'm going to connect certain experiences and 797 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:24,360 emotions to in the future. So that's what's next for you in 798 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,280 music, but what's next for Mitch Brown in general? 799 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,040 What's coming up now? Here in Australia, it's Pride 800 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:33,960 month in February, I think. So hopefully get a, you know, 801 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,880 get up to Sydney and Mardi Gras and really let loose. 802 00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:40,120 Have fun, queer joy. It's the best. 803 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,640 No one has fun better than us. But what's next? 804 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,640 Like it's, it's one of those things that like, you know, 805 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,960 seriously like having to really ask myself, what do I want to 806 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,000 get out of this next period whilst people are listening to 807 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,320 me? Can I help not solve in 808 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,960 particular homophobia in men's sport, but like help progress to 809 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,480 help provide a safer and inclusive environment for the 810 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,160 next person? I talk about this notion of 811 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,640 custodian a lot and I feel like I'm a custodian in this space. 812 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,320 I'm not someone on a pedestal or anything. 813 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,720 I'm just helping people listening to provide space for 814 00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:19,120 the next person or people, especially in men's AFL here in, 815 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:22,040 in Australia. Like, you know, if it's a little 816 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,080 bit easier for them to talk, they cop a little less 817 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,320 homophobia and hate. And it's a bit safer until that 818 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,240 time when there's multiple people and representation and 819 00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:36,240 it's just as awesome as the competition, then I'll keep 820 00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:39,120 speaking out. That's the plan for me, my 821 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,760 partner, we've really tried to enjoy this together and we may 822 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,720 as well ride this weird and wacky wave together and, and 823 00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:50,600 have fun doing it. One of the best parts about this 824 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:55,440 is meeting amazing people like yourself and making new friends, 825 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,920 friends that just get it and just are awesome. 826 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:03,320 And, you know, for so long in different parts of my life, 827 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,760 whether it was football or at the school that I went to, I had 828 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:08,800 no choice in people that I could hang around. 829 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,080 They were chosen particularly for football by recruiters. 830 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,040 But now I get to choose who I wanted to hang around. 831 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,080 And, you know, now I'm getting to meet so many cool people. 832 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:22,120 One of the the ex CE OS of the the AFL described this, this 833 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,560 person or this moment coming out would be a burden on them. 834 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,080 Yeah, like there's a little bit of, there's a little bit of 835 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,280 that, but it's been 1 hell of a ride and I'm grateful for it. 836 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,120 I think a lot of people are grateful for you. 837 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,000 Thanks, Andy. I would just keep riding the 838 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,960 wave, keep meeting amazing people and I genuinely believe 839 00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,560 I'm not doing this alone. I'm with so many amazing people 840 00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:47,880 that have been doing this type of fighting challenging for so 841 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:49,400 long. I'm not alone on this. 842 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,560 I've stepped up to be with those people, not by any means by 843 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,040 myself. Yeah, for sure. 844 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,000 I asked you if there was a queer charity, initiative or 845 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,640 organisation that you'd like to highlight. 846 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,640 Yeah, so just on that, I'm first to admit I'm still learning in 847 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,280 this space too, and I'd love to be challenged. 848 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,920 I've been supported by many amazing organisations, ones that 849 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:16,560 are, you know, Pride to play Pride, carp or advocacy safety 850 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,880 includes in sport. There's one particular 851 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,520 organisation that you know, yeah, they're just absolute 852 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,560 legends. They do amazing work for young 853 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:29,000 people and this is -18 youth organisation and they're 854 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,000 predominantly working with the queer community for young people 855 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,160 and help, you know, in multiple ways, whether it's, you know, 856 00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:40,080 providing community workshops at schools, providing events to, 857 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,880 you know, for for young queer people to feel safe. 858 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:47,280 And for many young queer people, even going to your own schools, 859 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,360 formal or debutant or whatever is just such a confronting 860 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,560 thing. If you, you know to bring your 861 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,560 partner or whatever and they provided just an event so you 862 00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:00,800 can go and be and be yourself and have fun and what it all 863 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,240 should be at that time of your life. 864 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:05,720 So they do amazing work and they obviously can't do them, but 865 00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:09,280 it's about themselves. But I've worked a lot in youth, 866 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,520 not for profits and power of young people and, and helping 867 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:14,640 uplift them. I realise there's a big reason 868 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:19,760 why there's no queer current players publicly speaking out or 869 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,040 there's that lack of representation and a lot of 870 00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:27,520 queer young people stop playing sport in those junior pathways 871 00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:30,480 because it's becomes too tough, not worth it. 872 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,800 So, you know, to be able to get behind charity like this and 873 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,560 some others like that, that really pushing to provide safer 874 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:42,960 places so that you know, our young people can stay in sports, 875 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,120 stay in school, stay in their friendship groups and feel like 876 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:47,600 they belong and they do an amazing job. 877 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,120 Kudos to them. Mitch Brown, you are queer and 878 00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,560 thank you very much for your tracks. 879 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,280 Thank you so much for having me on. 880 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,960 It's been a pleasure. And it's just, we talk about 881 00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,680 exiling. I've just taken a big breath and 882 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:01,480 feel good. Thanks for having me on. 883 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,120 You can find links to Mitch's initial interview with The Daily 884 00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,520 Oz and his Instagram, all in the show notes. 885 00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:17,280 This episode of Tracks of Our Queers was recorded and edited 886 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,960 on Wurundjeri and Nagarigo Land. You can check out my Spotify 887 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,000 playlist, including my favourite selections from different 888 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,240 episodes, all LinkedIn, the show notes, and you can e-mail me 889 00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:29,600 your gay ramblings at any time at tracksofourqueers@gmail.com. 890 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:31,360 See you next time.