1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,520 Hello and welcome to Tracks of Our Queers. 2 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,840 My name is Andy Gott and each episode I chat to a fascinating 3 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,360 queer person about their relationship with music via one 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,720 song, one album, and one artist that have each soundtrack their 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,720 life. Pete Crichton is an author and 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,760 freelance writer from Toronto. Last year he published his first 7 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,080 book, The vinyl Diaries Sex, Deep Cuts and My Soundtrack to 8 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:38,640 Queer Joy, a memoir of his life through tracks, albums and 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,800 artists that have accompanied his journey. 10 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,720 So yes, listener that sort of qualifies him for this podcast, 11 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,920 but I especially loved the framing of a vinyl. 12 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:53,040 As someone who grew up CD native before embarking on a hazardous 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,160 journey through Limewire, iTunes and the relentless grip that 14 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,720 Spotify holds over me to this day, the vinyl has always held a 15 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:04,239 fascinating allure. This significantly large and if 16 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:06,720 you've ever tried packing a holiday vinyl purchase in your 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,400 carry on suitcase for a Ryanair flight, deceivingly heavy 18 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,880 artefact of music that somehow a needle connects with to produce 19 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,680 a gloriously warm sound is so far removed from any other 20 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,920 listening experience that each record you invest in, or at 21 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,400 least I invest in, takes on a sort of totemic quality. 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,040 I have waxed aplenty lyrical about the convenience of a 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,680 Spotify playlist, and the gems from my early 2000s iTunes 24 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,960 remain ready for rediscovery on a dusty hard drive somewhere, 25 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,360 someday. But Pete's memoir uses his 26 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,240 favourite vinyl selections as a device to deep dive into core 27 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,280 queer memories. What he was listening to as a a 28 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,520 young queer boy in his bedroom at home who he was going to see 29 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,200 in concert in his 20's. The vinyls he forgot about in 30 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,200 certain chapters of his life, only to rediscover them later, 31 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,400 along with parts of himself. It's a great read for any queer 32 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,240 music fan, and I do have to say a saucy one at that. 33 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,640 Pete is a huge B52's fan and in the chat I reference that we 34 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,600 were speaking before. My own conversation with Kate 35 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,840 Pearson have been published. My 2025 oral fixation on the 36 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,640 B52's had yet to reach its peak, and getting to chat to Pete 37 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:21,440 about their impact on queer listeners definitely fueled that 38 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,120 fascination. Pete is actually the author of 39 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,320 The 33 and A Third Guide to Cosmic Thing, which was also 40 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:30,760 published last year, and I strongly recommend checking that 41 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,880 out too at your local queer box store. 42 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,600 This podcast is A1 Queer Band and any donations from listeners 43 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,840 go straight into costs associated with the show. 44 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,960 The link to buy me a coffee is in the episode show notes and 45 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:53,440 thank you very much in advance. Over to Pete Pete Crichton, 46 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,040 Welcome to Tracks of Our Queers. Thank you so much, Andy. 47 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,640 Thrilled to be here. Excellent. 48 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:00,840 Tell me, Pete, about your earliest musical memory. 49 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:06,600 My earliest, the one that I can really pinpoint is Donny Osmond, 50 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:11,080 a track called Puppy Love and. They called it Puppy. 51 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,960 Love and it came out when I was three years old and I don't know 52 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,400 how it hit my radar, but I was obsessed and kept that close to 53 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,120 my heart for some time. It's I think I just was swooning 54 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,640 for Donnie, even though, you know, I was three years old. 55 00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:31,320 I had no idea I was a sexual being or would grow into one, 56 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,000 But something about Donny Osmond made me go wow. 57 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,640 Did you grow up in a particularly musical household? 58 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,680 Were other people in your household listening to music? 59 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,560 Not much to be honest. My parents were sort of 60 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:49,080 holdovers of the 50s into the early 60s, but they sort of 61 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,920 missed Beatlemania and The Rolling Stones, most of their 62 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,880 records, old Broadway hits that, you know, people had back then. 63 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,320 My dad actually had better taste. 64 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,480 He had a couple Ella Fitzgerald records and some Dinah 65 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,160 Washington. That was pretty cool that I 66 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,280 definitely, I still have those and still listen. 67 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:15,000 What a difference a day made. 24 little hours. 68 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,800 So when do you think you started to nurture the passion you have 69 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,360 for music today? Was that in your teens? 70 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,720 Was it later in life? When did you start to realise 71 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,480 that you were a bit of a music head yourself? 72 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,280 Yeah, I think there was another sort of 70s band that Base City 73 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,320 Rollers that like that. I wanted that to be my first 74 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:46,640 record. Which it didn't work out. 75 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:47,880 You can read about it in the book. 76 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,040 But you know, I think Jackson 5 going back to Indiana was my 77 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,760 first record my mom bought for me. 78 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,680 And I can't have been more than six or seven years old. 79 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:06,480 And I still remember bringing that record home and being like, 80 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,320 it's mine. There was a real sense of 81 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,040 ownership. And you know, it's funny, I 82 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,320 didn't love it at first because it wasn't what I wanted to have, 83 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,960 but there was something about the intention of listening to it 84 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,800 over and over that turned me into a lover of going back to 85 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,320 Indiana. And, you know, I think I learned 86 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,680 something so valuable that day. Sometimes you just kind of put 87 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,800 some time and work into stuff and it will reveal itself to 88 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,560 you. That's true of so many things 89 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,000 besides music, but I think that was sort of like a real light 90 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,200 bulb click for me where I was just like, oh, I love this and 91 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,240 it's mine. I'm in my room, I have my 92 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,680 headphones on, and it's a world unto myself. 93 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,040 We're going to spend a lot of time in this interview coming 94 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,360 back to vinyl as the author of a book called The Vinyl Diaries. 95 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,520 There's something so magical about vinyl as a media form. 96 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,680 We're all aware of the resurgence in the last 10-15 97 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,520 years where we seem to realise as a society that we'd left this 98 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,160 beautiful media form behind and we we want to get back to it 99 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,600 because it offers so much that we can't get otherwise. 100 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,560 I reflect a lot on it because I grew up with C DS and I still 101 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,000 love C DS. C DS sound brilliant. 102 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,120 You can't take away from the quality of ACD. 103 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:24,040 There's something about the warmth of a vinyl and that very 104 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,560 tangible. You can almost feel the warmth 105 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:29,960 coming out of the speakers sometimes with a vinyl, 106 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,920 imagining you in your room listening to that Jackson 5 107 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,960 vinyl, holding it in your hand. They're also just really big 108 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:41,040 pieces of plastic to hold. And with that plastic comes 109 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,480 beautiful artwork that you can look and explore and you open it 110 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,680 up and there's so much to physically see. 111 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,160 And I'm just really with you there as that 6 year old being 112 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,360 amazed. It's a great thing to explore. 113 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,840 You're so right. And that in particular had a 114 00:06:54,840 --> 00:06:59,320 gatefold open up sleeve and it had this crazy 70s design like 115 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,880 shooting stars and pictures of the guys in their various 116 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,400 studios. And it just was like, I would 117 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,800 just stare at this double 24 inch by 12 inch thing and just 118 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,880 be like, it was just transportation to this other 119 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,040 world. It was great. 120 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,880 And I don't think you get that with a tiny little CD booklet, 121 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,440 or you certainly don't get it from a playlist online. 122 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,920 Take me a little bit on the journey from you've already 123 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,000 mentioned the basic 2 rollers, the Jackson 5 and then give me a 124 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,200 summary of where to next on your music obsession for you the next 125 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:33,880 few years? Sure. 126 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,760 Sure. I think you know the real like, 127 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,000 oh these people were made for me was hearing the B50 twos on the 128 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:54,720 radio. I think it was probably 1980, 129 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,880 because that's when Rock Lobster started getting some traction in 130 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,680 Canada, where I'm from. The first time I heard that 131 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,680 song, I was just like, oh God, this was made for me. 132 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,320 And I was only 10 or 11 years old at the time, but there was 133 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,320 something about that sort of just wild cacophony and this 134 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,800 playfulness. And, you know, you kind of got a 135 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,800 sense they weren't taking it too seriously. 136 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:21,160 But it still was super musically competent and tuneful. 137 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:27,600 It just, it just blew my little mind as a 10 or 11 year old boy. 138 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,440 And it was just like, that's where I'm going, you know, 139 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,200 unusual path of pushing boundaries, path of not quite 140 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,039 fitting into the mainstream. It just sort of lit my little 141 00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:42,280 brain on fire. So exciting. 142 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,120 How old were you when you picked up when you were listening to 143 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,280 Rock Lobster on the radio? I think it was around 1980, so I 144 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:53,800 would have turned 11 that year. I was pretty young and had some 145 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,560 influences in my life where I was hearing music from older 146 00:08:56,560 --> 00:09:00,520 people that and sort of I was just into my peers were not 147 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,880 doing that. Your peers weren't connecting, 148 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:07,480 so could you pick up on that sense of otherness, if you will, 149 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,800 in the B50 twos? Was there a sense of, you know, 150 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,160 that they were for you, but did you know that they probably 151 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,040 weren't for most other people as well? 152 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,800 Sometimes, yeah, sometimes no. There's this really small 153 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,600 community I grew up with where I got to go out of the city up to 154 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,560 a lake, and there was like this really intense love of that band 155 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:29,280 and that song. Really small community. 156 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:33,600 But then when I went back to school and the bigger, badder 157 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,880 world, it was like, this isn't a thing out in the bigger, broader 158 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:38,800 world. There was a little bit of both. 159 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,920 But I think, you know, I take that little pocket of people and 160 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,680 they don't count because that's not real world. 161 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:45,680 We're in like a fantasyland by a lake. 162 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,960 But then when you bring it back to going to school, it's like 163 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:50,840 that's very structured and rigid. 164 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,360 And no one in the schoolyard was listening to the B50 TS. 165 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,640 I just need to pick that thread a little bit further about this 166 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,800 fantasy commune by a lake. What's the story there? 167 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,080 Call me in 0 word, not mine, but it is probably fair. 168 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,920 I very friendly, grew up being able to go to a cottage or some 169 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,360 people call it a cabin. It's a very isolated community 170 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,840 in the woods by the way. It's not grandiose, but it it's 171 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:19,760 it's was a really incredible way to spend the summer as a young 172 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,480 person just being outside in nature, being able to swim 173 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,960 beyond the water. There was this weird little 174 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,280 social club that had dances sometimes on Friday nights, and 175 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,040 that's where a lot of my musical education came from. 176 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,440 What else was playing there on these Friday nights? 177 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,880 Talking Heads were a big one. I bought that Talking Heads 77 178 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,440 album when it was new, like I was 9. 179 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:50,920 Maybe there's a band called the Monks. 180 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,280 I don't know if you know the Monks with Drugs in My Pocket 181 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:59,240 and they were enormously caught in Canada, such that only Canada 182 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,000 got the release of their second LP, but they were from the UK. 183 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,960 Yeah. So anyway, great song Drugs in 184 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,800 My Pocket. There was a huge radio hit about 185 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:19,840 smoking weed. I love it when for no rhyme or 186 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,080 reason, a banned from another country will flop in their home 187 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,920 country but explode in another country and no one ever really 188 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:27,920 knows why. Never, no. 189 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,920 That was one of the real weird things in life, and it's a great 190 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,600 album. And so where I'm going to is 191 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:37,160 let's maybe skip a bit later into your teens. 192 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,400 When were you putting together the pieces of perhaps your 193 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:45,120 identity as a gay man, a gay boy, a queer person? 194 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,520 Oh my God, that's so big. I don't even know where to 195 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,880 start. But one of the things I think I 196 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,600 can point to is I definitely decided what wasn't. 197 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,200 I didn't want anything to do with the mainstream stuff, 198 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,000 anything that jocks and the popular kids were listening to. 199 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,720 I was like, no, not into that. And then I would be sort of 200 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,760 listening to my Depeche Mode records in my basement by then. 201 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,240 And I remember my girlfriend, not girlfriend officially, but a 202 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,280 friend of mine who was a girl bought me these, like, poster 203 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,880 set of all four of the Depeche Mode boys, all looking sultry 204 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,560 and sexy. And she bought that for me and 205 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:23,040 had these up on my wall. And, you know, I think we kind 206 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,400 of had like, this she sort of wink, wink, nudge, nudge, like, 207 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,400 I hope it's not weird that I bought posters of these four 208 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,240 beautiful boys for you to put up in your room. 209 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:32,920 And I was like, no, no, that's great. 210 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,440 Thank you, Mona. Thank you. 211 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,880 Yeah. And so they'd be Tom Bailey from 212 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,800 the Thompson Twins and the boys from Tears For Fears. 213 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,640 And so like, if I really think my mother, my God, I don't know 214 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,800 what she was thinking. And I'd had, I had this big one 215 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,960 of Adam Ant looking beautiful. So like, there was no pictures 216 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,080 of like Madonna or like the Dream Girl. 217 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,040 It was all these alternative boys looking beautiful. 218 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,080 And now when I have looked back on, it's sort of funny to think 219 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,480 I was hiding anything from anybody. 220 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,240 But I was trying. And I I'm under Depeche Mode 221 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:10,560 bent if you will, at the moment, because I've always loved 222 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,360 Erasure, of course. And on Saturday night I saw 223 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:34,240 Alison Moyet in Sydney. It was just too amazing. 224 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,040 Yes, yes, it must be the same tour. 225 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,400 It was on the night of my book launch and I couldn't go. 226 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,480 I was so mad because I've never seen her. 227 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,360 Well, I'm just fascinated by the thread between Erasure, Allison 228 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,360 Moyer, of course, to push through Vince Clarke and just 229 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,240 the talent of that man. He was so young when all of 230 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,040 these bands and acts were exploding. 231 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,160 I was reading an interview with him. 232 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,240 This is such a tangent, but he said he's never musically 233 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:58,520 trained. He can't really ever play a 234 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,560 musical instrument. He of course can play since, but 235 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:02,120 he couldn't. He couldn't pick up and play an 236 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,600 instrument. And it's like, but you're 237 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,200 responsible for some of the biggest hooks and melodies of 238 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,120 the 80s across at least three different bands. 239 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:20,000 That's amazing. It's fascinating. 240 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,120 I agree. I agree. 241 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:26,240 And and just his belief that like, oh, I hit record, man, 242 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,000 screw it, I'm going to go start another band. 243 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,080 And then like two hit records, screw it, I'm going to try 244 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,160 something else entirely. It's kind of ballsy. 245 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,040 I loved it. He just reinvented himself so 246 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,720 many times. So from a poster of Depeche Mode 247 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,880 on your bedroom wall to all these years later, you've just 248 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,600 published a memoir of your life with music, the vinyl Diaries. 249 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:55,560 I devoured the book, as I'm sure many other people have, and so 250 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,840 many feelings surfaced through reading it. 251 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,600 And there were chapters that I'd read where I was just like, wow, 252 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:06,320 I'm so happy for you. For this person who has had the 253 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:12,160 opportunity to document the impacts of some of these albums 254 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:17,200 and songs and artists on your life, on Lovers, on the way that 255 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:22,400 you see yourself on these really critical periods of your life 256 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,960 over the last few decades. It's why I started this podcast, 257 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,200 to hear about those stories from other people. 258 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,640 You took the opportunity to write your stories down and 259 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,640 publish it, and now people are reading them. 260 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,400 Tell me about how this came about. 261 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,600 Tell me how you felt compelled to make this happen. 262 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,480 It's a great question. And you know, there was no real 263 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,160 start point. It just, you know, it was I 264 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,200 always wanted to write and I never had confidence that I 265 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,360 could write because I wasn't well educated. 266 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,960 I didn't go to university or there was a gate there that I 267 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,600 hadn't opened. And so I know when I couldn't 268 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,080 write. So, you know, I know that's I 269 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,200 still, I think that's part of the damage of living the closet 270 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,520 for so many years. Your confidence gets eroded. 271 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,240 It messes with what you believe you can and cannot do. 272 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,200 And just around 45, an amazing experience of her happening to 273 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,640 me for the first time as a queer person. 274 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,800 I was talking to friends and one of them was like just write 275 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:24,360 everything down, like every single thing. 276 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,680 And so I have these journals with these dates and what men 277 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,800 and like what sexual acts we would do and then record. 278 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,920 I would play them. And it's slowly or not slowly 279 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,680 but very quickly became apparent to me that like the record is 280 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,000 the storytelling device and not just my book, but my life. 281 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,520 It's how I share what I've experienced in my emotional 282 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,640 life, not just my actual, these are the things that happened to 283 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,320 me in my life, but how I felt, what I saw, what I felt like, 284 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,280 all those things came through. And it's amazing to me that it 285 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,880 is there and people like you can read it. 286 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,960 And thank you for your kind words. 287 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,200 What's the response been like from readers? 288 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:08,400 It's been really good so far. You know, there is some pretty 289 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,520 graphic sexual content, as you know, and that was really scary 290 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,280 and I because I never believed it would get published. 291 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,160 I was writing it for myself. I was like, no big deal, I'll 292 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,560 just write this extremely graphic sex information about my 293 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,680 life. They gave no big deal. 294 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,640 So that was one of the things when I was like, Oh my God, 295 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,600 people are going to like, call me a pervert or a weirdo or like 296 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,880 all this stuff, but so far not at all. 297 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,120 You know, I went on a couple of morning talk shows and these 298 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:40,720 straight middle-aged women were like, it's a pretty spicy book. 299 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,000 And like that's his, you know, that's as offended as they were. 300 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,480 I am hearing from all sorts of people who had a similar 301 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,160 experience to me, which was abject fear of queerness because 302 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,560 of the HIV AIDS virus and really just pushing that part of 303 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:01,320 ourselves down and sometimes and people really just not embracing 304 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,320 their queerness. So those stories have been so 305 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,160 lovely to hear. Some people are reading it and 306 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,680 be like, Oh my God, I actually see my experience in the world 307 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,600 and that is so validating for me and something I really didn't 308 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,760 expect. Not only therapeutic for you to 309 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:24,280 write, but therapeutic for others to read about and to have 310 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,640 them consider their own experiences. 311 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,360 And then to be able to get in touch with you and discuss that 312 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,760 is so fantastic. Aside from the specificity of 313 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:38,440 the time period that you moved through when you were evolving 314 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,600 your queerness and all of that. I, I just believe that queer 315 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,600 people of any generation that we're living in now can very 316 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:52,600 closely connect with. Whether it's putting on a vinyl 317 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:58,120 during a fabulous evening of incredible sex and drinking 318 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:01,360 wine. Or whether it's walking down a 319 00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:06,920 street after you've had a really tough conversation or breakup 320 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,600 and you play something on your Spotify. 321 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,640 Or looking back at a really challenging part of your life 322 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:14,960 that you remember the music that got you through it. 323 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,160 Again, it comes back to the core of why I even started this 324 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,560 podcast. Music is universal to the human 325 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:21,920 condition. You don't have to be queer to 326 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,800 enjoy it. But I do believe that there is a 327 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,480 special relationship that queer people have with music. 328 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,040 These songs and albums, the way that they soundtrack these 329 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,920 pivotal experiences in our lives, we cling to them. 330 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,080 They become talismans for us. So these albums and songs, 331 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,160 reminders of strength or heartbreak or what it means to 332 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,920 be queer and to own that queerness that you jotted those 333 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,440 stories from your life down, It's so great to read because I 334 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,000 think so many of us can connect with it, even if we're not from 335 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,280 that specific era or age. Does that make sense or am I 336 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,520 just rambling now? No, you are making 100% sad. 337 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,120 For me, music was an escape for so long as a queer person, and 338 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:07,720 it's where I spent most of my teens, early 20s was really 339 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,400 exploring my queerness by just listening. 340 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,600 I couldn't talk to anybody about it, so it was like. 341 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,640 My own private little world, the love I have for some of those 342 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,840 records is still so, so deep in my heart. 343 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,920 Other people have said that to me, and straight folks too, is 344 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,120 just like this idea of these meaningful points in our life 345 00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:31,360 being soundtracked, which is kind of what it is. 346 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,200 You know? We all have our own soundtrack 347 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,360 through life. When we find those points of 348 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:39,200 connection with other people and that soundtrack is all of a 349 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,120 sudden 2 lives are connecting to the soundtrack, it's pretty 350 00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:44,720 exciting and people just get it. Absolutely. 351 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,680 That just brings it back to the nature specifically of a vinyl, 352 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,160 which is songs on my Spotify remind me of things. 353 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,960 But I've also got hard drive where pre Spotify I would listen 354 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,280 on iTunes and there's songs on that hard drive which don't 355 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,560 exist on streaming now. They remind me of specific 356 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,440 times. Then you go back even further to 357 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,320 CDs and cassettes, but what you have is in your home, I presume, 358 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,760 these physical mementos of these very powerful memories, and you 359 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,400 carry them around with you. I think that adds to the magic 360 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,280 of a vinyl as well. Totally. 361 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,760 There's something about having an artefact in your home that 362 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,600 some of them I've carried with me now for 40 years. 363 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,160 That's commitment, you know, Like those things have been with 364 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,280 me through thick and thin, the good, the bad, the ugly. 365 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:35,600 It's kind of like a best friend relationship that they just see 366 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,600 it all and there is power in that. 367 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,280 I agree with you. Pete Crichton, tell me about the 368 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:47,360 Tennessee Mountain homos. Sure, we are a 20 ish person 369 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:52,880 choir based out of Toronto and we perform once a year and only 370 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:59,160 once during Pride at an event called Steers and Queers. 371 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,120 I love it. The night of $1000. 372 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:07,480 So it's a sort of country western themed thing with lots 373 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,000 of Dolly Parton woven in it. And it's just stupid and campy 374 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,640 and fun. And we do take it pretty 375 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,960 seriously. Like there's rehearsals and 376 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,520 like, there's. I should hope so. 377 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,840 Yeah, I know it's, it's real. There's different parts for 378 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,040 different vocal strengths, and I have none. 379 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,920 But I'm one of the few cisgendered men in the choir, so 380 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,920 I have a slightly lower tone to my voice, so that's helpful. 381 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,200 And we throw on trashy blonde wigs, paint up stupid makeup, 382 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:39,080 wear matching white robes, and just kind of like, sway and sing 383 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,320 the gospel of Dolly Parton. It sounds exquisite. 384 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,200 Are you familiar with the artist Our Lady Jay? 385 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:50,440 No, she's a trans performer, writer, singer, kind of does 386 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,720 everything you can imagine. She's gone on to write for TV 387 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:59,600 shows like Pose and Transparent. About 15 years ago I was living 388 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,520 in Manchester in the UK and there was a small queer festival 389 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,520 on. She did a one woman show called 390 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,040 The Gospel of Dolly. It was the first time I became 391 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,040 aware of that religious experience element of Dolly's 392 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,280 music and it blew me away. So then, to imagine that there's 393 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,160 choirs in other parts of the world performing these 394 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:25,200 rapturous, mesmerising songs for queer audiences just speaks to 395 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,960 the power of Dolly. It's like nothing you've ever 396 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,040 seen. And I wrote about it in the 397 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,240 book, but like, the minute I first saw it, I was like, I have 398 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,680 to do that. Like, I just have to because you 399 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,040 are, you're up there. There's 20 plus of us, but 400 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,840 there's like 350 people in the audience who are just freaking 401 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:49,560 out for love of Dolly and the choir and the experience and 402 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,720 pride and just being silly and celebratory. 403 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,720 It's a magical you know, everyone should do it. 404 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,400 Let's dive in. We are going to talk about a 405 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,960 track, an album, and an artist. For the rest of Pete's enormous 406 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,960 musical taste, you're going to have to go and buy the vinyl 407 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,000 Diaries because we don't have time to cover it all here. 408 00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:11,560 The track that you wanted to talk about, What is it and why? 409 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:18,320 The track I picked is Broken English by Marianne Faithful. 410 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:39,480 I think it's, you know, she's not queer, but to me, the song 411 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,200 and the record it's from is deeply queer. 412 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,400 She's just such a survivor, and that really resonates with me. 413 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,760 You know, she was overcoming an addiction to heroin, anorexia, 414 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,840 homelessness. She was like this nice British 415 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,720 girl who really just went into this rock'n'roll whole and it 416 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,120 was sort of like right at her lowest point that Chris 417 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:02,800 Blackwell from Island Record said here's somebody go make a 418 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,520 record. And Broken English is the first 419 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,400 song on the record and it's a song she Co wrote and there's 420 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,720 something in it that's just like this plea where she's just 421 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,760 asking again and again, like what are we fighting for? 422 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,600 Within that question, she's asking huge questions. 423 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:35,960 Is it love? Is it art? 424 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,360 Is it each other? She was fighting for her life in 425 00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:43,200 this particular appointment, and you made this beautiful, 426 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,320 beautiful, beautiful song. And when I hear it and that 427 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,040 record, I see so much of myself of just like, being really 428 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,800 depressed and not knowing how to go forward. 429 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,720 You figure it out, you pick yourself up if you're lucky and 430 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,120 you get a band behind you or your friends or whoever who 431 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,920 helped lift you up. And I just think it's just this 432 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,440 really interesting particular time in her life. 433 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,880 It's a great song. It is a great song. 434 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,760 I'm I'm still, I'd say at the beginning end of my Marian 435 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,480 faithful discovery. There's so much more for me to 436 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,120 listen to and I can't wait. I've listened to the whole album 437 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,120 and I really enjoyed it and I'll continue going back to it. 438 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,560 And gosh, queers are a sucker for a comeback, right? 439 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,640 This is just such a profound example of someone who 10-15 440 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,160 years into her career, perhaps around about that point. 441 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,400 Probably closer to 15. Yeah, yeah. 442 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,280 And you can, I mean, the reviews of the time are you can 443 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,760 literally hear how much her voice had changed from cigarette 444 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,880 smoking, drug abuse and years of homelessness. 445 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,360 But that fascinates us, that evolution and carrying those 446 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,000 struggles with you and absorbing them and then they become part 447 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,000 of your strength. It's something that in one of 448 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,040 its purest forms, the reason why a lot of people resonate with 449 00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:01,320 the version that Joni Mitchell did of both sides now all those 450 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,360 years later, where her voice is much deeper. 451 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:06,120 This is another great example of that trope, I feel. 452 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:11,680 Yeah, it just adds weight to the art that we're listening to. 453 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:16,120 She's just such an interesting person, and I really think that 454 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:18,840 record is a work of genius. And that song in particular, 455 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,840 it's just like that perfect blend of 70s kind of rock'n'roll 456 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,760 hits, 80s new wave, and they were really pushing that side of 457 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,760 it before anybody else was. And it just there's some 458 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:36,200 beautiful blend of of this clash of different sounds and really 459 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,160 making it her own. It's fantastic. 460 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,280 Do you remember how you first came across it? 461 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,000 How did you discover this song or album? 462 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,920 Yeah, I had a friend who was apartment sitting and we were 463 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,160 probably 19 or 20, still pretty young, and we're going to see U2 464 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:53,800 down in Toronto. And so we have this apartment to 465 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,880 go back to and they had this huge record collection 466 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,000 underneath a window bank. And I just for some reason we 467 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,960 found that and put it on and it was just sort of like instantly 468 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:05,320 mesmerising. Yeah. 469 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,520 I'm not sure my friend was as taken with it, but I was just 470 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,920 like, I just was like dove right in. 471 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,160 I immediately had to get a copy. I've been a huge fan ever since. 472 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,600 But again, I know that exact experience too, where you 473 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,720 discover something with someone else and you're like, Oh my 474 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,960 gosh, this is amazing. And your friend is like, yeah, I 475 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,480 mean, it's fine. It's fine. 476 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,360 And I we've got a biggie coming up. 477 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,000 What album did you pick and why are? 478 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:36,120 You ready, Andy? I picked Kate Bush's Hounds of 479 00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:49,880 Love in the Trees. You know, I came to it in 1986 480 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,800 when I was 17, and it just was like, it felt like it was made 481 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,440 for me. Like I just was that time in 482 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,320 life when I knew I was gay but couldn't talk about it or felt I 483 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,960 couldn't talk about it, you know? 484 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,680 Rock Hudson and Ricky Paulson of the 50 twos had just died of 485 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:13,360 AIDS in 1985 S all of a sudden in this conversation around gay 486 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,400 men having sex basically, but to you dying, what's happening? 487 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,680 And Kate and Hands of Love just became this perfect world of 488 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,960 escape for me. She wasn't that popular in North 489 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:32,440 America like she was in the UK, and I think Australia and Canada 490 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,880 were kind of the same. It had a moment, but it wasn't 491 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,240 part of the mainstream. And you know, it has a special 492 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,920 spot in my heart. The song Hands of Love is sort 493 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,760 of like the kick off of my journey in the book for queer 494 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,240 self discovery. It's one of those Talisman's 495 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,400 I've had since I was 16 or 17. I listened to it once a week at 496 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,800 least. There's so much to discover in 497 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,680 this record. It's still giving me new 498 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,480 surprises and new things I've never heard before and new 499 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,200 connections I've never made before. 500 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,080 But me, this journey that Kate created. 501 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,000 It's the world and everything in a vinyl. 502 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,880 How? This is a really hard question 503 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,240 now, but I'm going to put it on you. 504 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,760 If you were to describe this album to a listener who hasn't 505 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,640 heard it or isn't familiar with the genius of it, how would you 506 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,680 describe The Hands of Love? It's so big and so much of my 507 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,040 book is about different records. I felt brave enough to talk 508 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,600 about 50 Words for Snow by Kate and I felt brave enough to talk 509 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,720 about Ariel by Kate, but I wasn't brave enough to talk a 510 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,720 lot at the Hands of Love because it's so big and I love it so 511 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:55,960 much. It was really hard to find an 512 00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,960 entry point, but if I really was pushed, Side 1 is like a 513 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,160 greatest hits album. Beautifully crafted song play, 514 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:10,000 orchestrations, her vocals are incredible and she produced it 515 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,760 and she wrote it and she was only 25. 516 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,320 Like all these kind of like, holy shit, what an incredible 517 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,320 artist and an incredible thing to do at that young age. 518 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,720 And then side two, you flip it over and you're like, whoa man, 519 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,720 what is going on here? It's like this whole other world 520 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,280 of more traditional sounding music and really vibing off some 521 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,280 of the things that I think she grew up with more traditional 522 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:58,360 Irish and English folk sounds. To see where memories are kept 523 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,040 bright or. Dripping on the water like a 524 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,720 laughing girl. But it's like you said, it's the 525 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,520 world. It's the struggle between life 526 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,560 and death. It's the struggle of becoming, 527 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:11,440 finding family and love and connection and choosing it or 528 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,760 not choosing it. Willful to be alive. 529 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,400 Letting it go and maybe not being alive. 530 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,040 It asks. Like as much as Marianne 531 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,320 Faithful was asking some big questions, side 2 of Hands of 532 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,760 Love asks every big question within a 2023 minute song suite 533 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,520 and it to me it's one song. Like there's breaks and 534 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,360 different song names, but it's like, to me it's just side 2 535 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,440 Hounds of Love period. It's making me feel funny even 536 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,480 hearing you describe it. It's such a magical, joyous 537 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,520 album, and I love that in a time when you really needed that 538 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,320 escapism, that was the piece of art where you could escape and 539 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,240 enter that world. And I just think that's really 540 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,280 magical. Yes. 541 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,360 Where to even begin? This is the album that gave us 542 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,960 songs like Running Up That Hill, Hounds of Love, Cloud busting to 543 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:16,840 say the least. But then that's the other side. 544 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,720 The 9th wave, as she calls it, was probably my first experience 545 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,600 of like a bona fide concept like song cycle. 546 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,920 Like, I hadn't really experienced much in the way of 547 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,720 that before I heard it. I reckon I first heard this 548 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,640 album around the age of 1617 again, and Kate introduced me to 549 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,240 new ways of thinking about music. 550 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,000 I was exploring big icons like Madonna, but also Bjork, and 551 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,760 Bjork led me down different paths. 552 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:47,880 And it was almost like from Bjork. 553 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,440 It was like, who came before Bjork? 554 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,720 Well, then you've got people like Kate Bush. 555 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,480 And I'm like, well, who came before Kate Bush? 556 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,800 She would say people like, you know, David Bowie or Elton John 557 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,080 or whatever. But for me, the mother lode is 558 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:03,640 Kate Bush. Kate Bush spawned any kind of 559 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,199 female or otherwise artist who feels like they can produce 560 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,360 anything left of centre, which feels more genuine to them, 561 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,719 which doesn't have to be following the trends of the 562 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,800 time, can in some way credit Kate Bush for opening that door 563 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,719 and everything she's. Like, you know, when you talk 564 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,880 about the chicken or the egg, like she's the egg, everything 565 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,560 came from her. And you hear other artists talk 566 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,159 about her as an inspiration, particularly women and hearing 567 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,760 Kate and really going, oh man, I can do this too. 568 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,080 I can use my voice, produce my own record and pursue my own 569 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,040 ideas outside of a man or a band. 570 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,280 I can just sit in a studio all by myself and create a master 571 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,600 work. I think that is just an amazing 572 00:34:51,600 --> 00:35:05,700 thing. And that even in itself, the 573 00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:09,380 idea that at this point in her career she was locking herself 574 00:35:09,380 --> 00:35:14,020 away from the world and she was in her own studio with her 575 00:35:14,020 --> 00:35:16,900 fingerprints, not even even her fingerprints have everything she 576 00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:19,900 was, everything she did, everything she recorded, she 577 00:35:20,340 --> 00:35:22,300 performed as many of the instruments as she could. 578 00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:28,280 She produced the whole thing. The entire album is her creation 579 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,440 in a way that also people like Prince were doing at that time. 580 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,520 I will also give credit to George Michael for doing a very 581 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:39,320 similar thing, Singer, writer, performer, producer, but just so 582 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,080 impressive to create your own world like that. 583 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,040 I just realised that thinking about this. 584 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,600 The songs, the tracks on side A and then you've got the concept 585 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,400 piece on side B is something she did again 20 years later with 586 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,080 Ariel, which you write about in your book. 587 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,400 And I don't think people talk about enough the connection 588 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,960 between those two albums because alone aside from they share that 589 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,320 format. They were written and produced 590 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,840 20 years apart. And one is from a 25 year old 591 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:09,320 young woman who she's got all of these things to say and artistic 592 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,960 visions to translate to the world. 593 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,600 But then with Ariel, you've got a 45 year old woman who has a 594 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,760 child and has lived a lot more of life. 595 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,680 And you know, it's not so much a dramatic story of a woman out at 596 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,040 sea. But I think the concept on Ariel 597 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,640 is like, it's just like an English summer's day, which 598 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,120 doesn't, it's just a day. But it's such a, it's honestly, 599 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,840 it's giving me shivers even thinking about it now. 600 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:47,800 It's such an amazing album. I think you're right, too. 601 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,560 She was 25, still in the act of becoming and figuring out who 602 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,800 she was and had become so famous in her native UK that, you know, 603 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,840 that retreat into the studio is a real reaction to that. 604 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,120 And then she kind of pieced out, you know, she made two more 605 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:08,160 records, none as successful, one artistically great, one a bit 606 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,160 iffy. And then she said, no, I'm done. 607 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,040 I'm going to live in the countryside and have a child, 608 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:17,280 live my life, and I love that. Ariel is the expression of that. 609 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,360 It's just like this calm. You hear sounds of nature, that 610 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,480 themes are motherhood, nature and the changing of a day. 611 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,000 Those are huge concepts. And it's not as loud or as 612 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,040 bombastic as some of the Hounds of Love stuff, but that's like 613 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,240 finding peace with herself is Erin. 614 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,960 I think I like that conversation between those two that you're 615 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:41,920 suggesting. I think there's something there. 616 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,920 Before we move on Pete, I'd love to just hear what are your real 617 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,640 highlights of this album? I know there's so many, but what 618 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,240 stands out as your most magical moments from the House of Love? 619 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,440 Honestly, every track but Cloudbusting is is such a gift. 620 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,640 And it's funny, over COVID, my partner, he's a couple years 621 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,960 older than me and a professional dancer and choreographer, but 622 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,480 his career had already taken off by the time Kate Bush came out. 623 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,760 He'd never listened to her. Like he kind of knew who she 624 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:11,920 was, but he never listened to her. 625 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,560 So over COVID, I introduced him to this record and he was like, 626 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,440 Oh my God, I cannot believe how good this is. 627 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,040 But clam busting for him was this. 628 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,120 I mean, it is just an incredible piece of music. 629 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:41,160 And the drum beat. He, as a professional dancer and 630 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,200 choreographer lost his shit. So I would play this song and he 631 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,480 would just like create this magical choreography and dance 632 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,320 in the middle of COVID during lockdowns. 633 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:57,640 And it was just, I had this high bit beautiful thing to watch. 634 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,760 It was just another one of those moments where this record is 635 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,640 always with me. And introducing that record and 636 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,400 that song to him at a time when we were all going crazy and 637 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,880 finding that 5 minutes of peace and beauty and magic in art was 638 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,080 something really special. I love that. 639 00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:18,480 What a way to end. I just know that something good 640 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,120 is going to happen. Yeah, right. 641 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:26,120 So the artist you mentioned hearing a track in 1980 as a 642 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,240 young boy, why don't we head back there and continue that 643 00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:31,640 journey? Why did you choose this artist 644 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,640 and who are they? Well, the artist is the B50 645 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,360 twos. For those who haven't paid 646 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,560 attention. They. 647 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,080 Yeah, definitely in 1980, when I first heard them, was like a 648 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,160 flashbulb. It's the song on set to where 649 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,640 Fred says there are thousands of others like you. 650 00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:49,440 Is it? There's a mood in the sky. 651 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,000 It's called the moon. It's the name of the track 652 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,880 You're in out of space. Don't build. 653 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,040 And I just remember, I think about that line all the time 654 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,400 now. I'm just like this quiet coded 655 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:13,040 queer message to say like, we're out there, you will find us. 656 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,280 You'll find the people. And I think there's so much in 657 00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,120 that one line for me that spoke to me even as a kid of like, OK, 658 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,280 you don't fit in. You don't have that many friends 659 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,560 at school who understand you, but there are people out there 660 00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,880 and you'll find them. And I think the entirety of 661 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:35,120 their career is just celebrating otherness, sort of showing this 662 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,520 really fun can be colourful way of being in the world. 663 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:44,960 And to me it's the ultimate like of just punking the system. 664 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,200 This queer band should never have had a hit record, but they 665 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,800 kept doing it. Miraculously, 10 years into 666 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,360 their career, they had their most successful record of all. 667 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,840 Isn't that just cosmic justice? It's just on the mind. 668 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,440 Yes, Cosmic thing, 1989. I really love that. 669 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,280 And I love what you said earlier about how they took their music 670 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,920 very seriously. The music is produced and 671 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,800 performed very tightly and with a lot of care and consideration. 672 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,920 But they don't take themselves seriously. 673 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,600 And to me, not to just randomly label everything queer, I think 674 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,440 that is a bit of a queer trope as well. 675 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:28,920 I think queer artists take pride in is that ability to master an 676 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,280 art form and to produce something of very, very high 677 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:35,560 quality that could never be called amateur. 678 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,480 But as themselves, as the image that they're putting out there, 679 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,440 to just laugh at the world and be like, we're not taking this 680 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,360 too seriously. Like we're taking our work 681 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,640 seriously, but not ourselves. And come and have fun with us. 682 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,880 And I think there's something so queer about how you have the 683 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,560 spotlight. This song, you'd be the lead 684 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,440 singer. This one we'll share. 685 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,800 Like there's there's this abundance in the B52's that's 686 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,120 not about stealing the spotlight or being the star. 687 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:08,840 It's like supporting each other as friends and peers and sort of 688 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,720 creating something bigger than the sum of its parts for sure, 689 00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:14,600 which is clear. It's very queer and not to make 690 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,520 this about me, it's not my interview, but 2025 has been my 691 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,280 B52. This year I am completely 692 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,360 obsessed. I've moved to Planet Claire and 693 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,640 it all kind of began from a guest like yourself last year 694 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,760 who also chose to be 50 Juice for an artist. 695 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,520 And I had fairly limited knowledge, but it led me down a 696 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,520 rabbit hole. And a couple of months ago, I 697 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:37,000 was lucky enough to interview Kate Pearson for this podcast, 698 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,640 which I haven't come out yet. OK, that's why I haven't heard. 699 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,240 It it's not out because I'm just sitting on it. 700 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:44,680 I can't believe it because it was them preparing for that 701 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:46,920 interview and you know, really wanting to know my stuff that I 702 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,080 was like, this band are like legendary. 703 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,520 They have achieved so much, they've produced so much 704 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,920 incredible queer art and now I am obsessed. 705 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,680 They are for sure going to be my most listened to artist of the 706 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,400 year. I've still got so much to 707 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,200 discover but I've devoured so many of their albums start to 708 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,840 finish. I think that that is such a 709 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,040 pleasure when you think you know what your music taste is and you 710 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,960 think you know who your favourite artists are, that 711 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:17,040 there's still artists and albums out there to be discovered from 712 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,880 the past and for you to fall in love with. 713 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,760 And that's a really fabulous thing about being a music fan. 714 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,560 And that can blow your mind. And they did it their way. 715 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,800 They carve their own path and talk about like, pulling 716 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,040 themselves up. Like Ricky Wilson, their 717 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,280 guitarist and some say biggest musical contributor in the early 718 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,400 days, died of HIV, AIDS in 1985. They disappeared. 719 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,640 It was like the ban was over. And then four years later, they 720 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,640 released Cosmic Thing to like the greatest fanfare and most 721 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,080 successive their entire career. And I think there's just like, 722 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:55,320 yeah, we can lift each other up out of the weeds and music and 723 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,880 queerness and friends and community. 724 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,560 We can get by. We can get through. 725 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,720 It was so magical that this album sold more than their 726 00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:19,000 previous four albums combined. The first two albums were really 727 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,800 commercially successful as well. But then to have that 10 years 728 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,760 in and for them to speak on record a lot about how that 729 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,480 album wasn't always easy to make, but it was about healing 730 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,640 and coming together as a band. 5 have become four. 731 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,760 Ricky was the brother of another band member, Cindy Wilson, which 732 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,280 I can't imagine having to go back to your band that your 733 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,760 brother used to be in and continue making music again, but 734 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,320 they did. And sing songs you wrote with 735 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,640 him. Like that'd be brutal for Cindy 736 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,280 and everyone. Else So they've been with you 737 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,800 most of your life, Pete. Have you seen them live much? 738 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,520 Not as early as I would have liked to, but I did see them 739 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,960 live on the very first tour of Cosmic Thing in 1989. 740 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,800 And at that point it was like at this shitty club in a suburb of 741 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,800 Toronto. They, they, everyone had kind of 742 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,560 forgotten about the 50 tears or like then Love Shack happened 743 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,640 and you know, a year later I saw them at this massive outdoor 744 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:32,480 like the stadium in Toronto. What are your favourite 745 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,440 standouts like? What are your all time favourite 746 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,560 B50 twos tracks? I do. 747 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:44,520 I love the first two records so much Hero worship where Cindy is 748 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,600 on side 2 is just like this incendiary vocal performance 749 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,440 that like most people would not ever do. 750 00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:05,110 And I can just see the producer is Chris Blackwell. 751 00:46:05,110 --> 00:46:08,800 Was the producer actually just saying like go for it, like just 752 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,720 fucking go for it? And she is just singing so 753 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:17,640 intensely on that track. Wow, what confidence And it's so 754 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,840 much about that band is just like they're going for it. 755 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,040 I love Mesopotamia from life. Then one of their least 756 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:28,440 successful records. I love Rome, which is, you know, 757 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,080 possibly about losing Ricky, maybe not or to know. 758 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:48,920 That's my number one of all time I think. 759 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:49,960 Is that your number one? Yeah. 760 00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:52,880 I remember when Love Shack exploded, I was like, just wait, 761 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:57,040 Rome is going to #1 and it didn't, but it at least got as 762 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,640 high as Love Shack. And then and the very latter 763 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,520 half of I think it's the second last song on Cosmic Thing is 764 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,080 Topaz and it just. Left that song. 765 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,080 The harmonies and the weaving of Kane and Cindy's voices, it's 766 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,600 and to me, I think it's really about envisioning queer futures 767 00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,080 and a time without Ricky and a place without Ricky and 768 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:31,530 reinventing and working forward. It really does feel like that, 769 00:47:31,530 --> 00:47:33,730 and especially I think it's Topaz. 770 00:47:33,730 --> 00:47:36,650 And then there's that final instrumental track, which closes 771 00:47:36,650 --> 00:47:38,170 out the album. Yeah, it's just. 772 00:47:38,170 --> 00:47:40,970 Sort of like give yourself a chance to wipe your brow. 773 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,200 Yes. Scott, follow your bliss. 774 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,920 Follow your bliss and you really do. 775 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:47,800 It's such a beautiful those two tracks together. 776 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,520 It's such a wonderful way to end that album. 777 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,560 And I love, I love that about looking forward to a queer 778 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,760 future and what's next. We've just gone through this 779 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,800 horrendous thing. We've healed what happens for us 780 00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,240 next. So magical. 781 00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:02,320 The track that I keep coming back to, at least in the last 782 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,520 two weeks, is Give Me Back My Man. 783 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,520 And I always, when I watched her sing it, I totally think now 784 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,640 it's about her brother. I mean, she wrote it when he was 785 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,720 still alive. And it was one of their most 786 00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:27,080 testful psalms. Like it is one of their best for 787 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,240 sure. And so my final question here is 788 00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:32,840 something that I struggled to articulate to Kate because I 789 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:37,440 wanted to be very respectful and appropriate when you're talking 790 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,200 directly to that person as opposed to music fans talking 791 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,960 about them. But something which fascinates 792 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:48,920 me is that at least four out of five were or have publicly 793 00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:50,760 confirmed their identity as queer. 794 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,440 And you can look back now and see that from the beginnings of 795 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,800 Rock Lobster and be like, yeah, of course that makes sense. 796 00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,520 But I wonder from your point of view, as a fan over the years, 797 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,560 how did you feel to have? Because I think they all came 798 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,400 out at different times. How did you feel to see that 799 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,200 public confirmation of maybe something that you had spected 800 00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:11,240 or felt their queerness or otherness? 801 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,400 It is a tough question to ask. I'd be curious. 802 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,640 There was no and the way they did it wasn't and you know. 803 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:20,880 No. Press release about it or we're 804 00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,360 going to have this conference and tell people it's just sort 805 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:28,840 of like, yeah, that's of course. And so it didn't feel like a big 806 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,600 moment. It didn't feel like it needed to 807 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,040 be a big moment because I think underneath it all, we all 808 00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,560 thought they were queer all the time anyway. 809 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:39,840 What I thought was interesting is, you know, I think I told 810 00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,440 you, but I actually wrote a book about cosmic thing. 811 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:48,960 And in the research of that, no one ever asked them. 812 00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:53,600 And like no press, no interview asked them outright if they were 813 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:54,760 gay. That's interesting. 814 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,160 Isn't that fascinating? I think most of the music press 815 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,960 were straight dudes. And like, Charlie also didn't 816 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,520 know how to frame the question, especially in 1979. 817 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,960 And so it just was sort of left and talked about, which I find 818 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,320 kind of fascinating. Yeah. 819 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,960 So when they sort of did it one by one at their own leisure, 820 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,360 take your time. The 80s were a tough time, man. 821 00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:18,200 Absolutely. I can't wait to read your book. 822 00:50:18,240 --> 00:50:20,560 I tried to order it the other day and I can't even order it in 823 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,000 Australia yet, but I'm sure that will change at some point, yeah. 824 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,920 I hope so. It comes out North America 825 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,480 anyway on September 4th, which I thought was a worldwide date, 826 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,560 but we'll see. But my vinyl Diaries book is 827 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,640 available in Australia, I know that for sure. 828 00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:38,800 Absolutely, yes. So just very quickly before we 829 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,160 move on, you said something earlier about Chris Blackwell 830 00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,280 producing. I found that very interesting 831 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,120 that there was a connection between your track that you 832 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,320 picked and an artist. Yes. 833 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,200 Chris Blackwell didn't make that connection either until today or 834 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,880 so that I'm going to need to do some homework and thinking 835 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,680 about. Are there any queer initiatives 836 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:57,800 or charities that you'd like to give a shout out to? 837 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,680 So yeah, I think the one thing would be Queer Songbook 838 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,000 Orchestra based out of Toronto, and they're what they sound 839 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,560 like. It's a 14 piece orchestra, all 840 00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,680 queer, devoted to celebrating artists. 841 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,440 But they do have school appearances, so they go out to 842 00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:16,800 Toronto District School Board and they teach kids music and 843 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,680 mentorship and a whole Youth Orchestra for queer and question 844 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,840 youth. So they do a lot of stuff for 845 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,120 for younger queers trying to make sense of the world right 846 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,560 now. So incredible. 847 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,040 I love that. I'm definitely going to go and 848 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,840 check them out. Pete Crichton, you are queer and 849 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,400 thank you very much for your tracks. 850 00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:35,400 Thank you so much, Andy. It's a great show and a great 851 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:49,080 interview. You can find links to Pete's 852 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,600 books, the vinyl Diaries and Cosmic thing in this episode 853 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,680 show notes along with Pete's Instagram. 854 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,600 If you have a suggestion for someone fascinating you know who 855 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,720 I could interview, send me an e-mail at 856 00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:04,760 tracksofourqueers@gmail.com. This episode of Tracks of Our 857 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,680 Queers was recorded and edited on the Garagher Land. 858 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:43,200 See you next time. None. 859 00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:00,480 The.