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Hello and welcome to Tracks of 
Our Queers. 

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My name is Andy Gott and each 
episode I chat to a fascinating 

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queer person about one song, one
album and one artist that have 

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each soundtracked their life as 
queer listeners, as artists 

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themselves, as people. 
The songs that have made us feel

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seen, challenged, uplifted, 
confused, joyful, alive. 

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One of the absolute joys of 
making this podcast is when a 

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guest introduces me to a 
selection that I haven't paid 

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too much attention to before and
I end up falling head over 

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heels. 
Geeking out over a shared 

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favourite is always a thrill, 
but honestly I feel like I've 

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won and I get to discover 
something new or rediscover 

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something old and that's exactly
what happened here. 

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Last year I interviewed 
songwriter and Broadway show 

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creator Ash Gordon who chose the
B50 Twos as her artist. 

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It's a great chat, highly 
recommend if you haven't heard 

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it already. 
And like most people I've known,

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the ever present, almost mythic 
party banger that is Love Shack 

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Forever and could maybe name a 
handful of others I enjoyed as 

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well, like Rome or Mesopotamia. 
My overall perception of the B50

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Twos was a fun, kooky left of 
centre band with a queer 

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adjacent vibe. 
So all cheques out, but that was

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about it. 
It was Ash's passion for their 

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influence and their place in the
queer musical Canon. 

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But I have to say, spark 
something. 

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I started dipping in. 
I started to identify as B50 

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Twos. 
Curious. 

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And then earlier this year, I 
got an e-mail. 

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Would I like to interview Kate 
Pearson, herself one of the 

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band's iconic voices and a 
lifelong queer music icon, in 

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her own? 
Right, cut to. 

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Present day and I have honestly 
been in full B52's immersion 

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ever since. 
I am obsessed. 

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I can already tell that this 
year's Spotify rap will be 

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absolutely dominated by the 
likes of Private Idaho, Legal 

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Tender, Queen of Las Vegas, Give
Me Back My Man and iconically 

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Girl from Ipanema Goes to 
Greenland, which might just be 

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the queerest sum title of all 
time. 

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So what started as polite 
research ahead of talking to a 

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band member turned into full 
blown fandom. 

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I'm now trying to maintain some 
semblance of professionalism 

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while quietly losing it over a 
band I've actually only truly 

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discovered this year. 
If, like me, you're a tad 

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unfamiliar, The B50 Twos were a 
group of quirky quidos who 

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emerged from late 70s Athens, GA
and made their way to New York 

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and the world without ever 
really hiding their otherness. 

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Their Saturday Night Live debut,
performing Rock Lobster, 

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welcomed in legions of fans who 
wanted to party with the weird 

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kids, and their journey reached 
commercial peak with the 1989 

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album Cosmic Thing, produced 
following the death of founding 

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guitarist Ricky Wilson, brother 
to the band's other iconic 

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female singer Cindy Wilson. 
Ricky died from AIDS related 

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illness, and Cosmic Thing 
shimmers and shines the voices 

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of the bandmates that he'd left 
behind, grieving, healing, and 

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harkening back to a much more 
innocent time. 

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The fact that their. 
Biggest commercial success? 

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The album actually sold more 
than their previous four 

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combined. 
Came as a way to process such 

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intense grief. 
Adds a poignantly queer layer to

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their legacy. 
But back to Kate. 

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Beyond her 40 year career with 
the B52's, Kate went on to 

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partner with the likes of Iggy 
Pop and R.E.M. 

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She joined the Japanese band 
Nina and even scored a number 

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one album there. 
And in 2015 she released her 

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debut solo album. 
Last year she released the 

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follow up Radios and Rainbows, A
glitter, emotional, politically 

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sharp collection of songs that 
span dance ballagerie and 

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revenge disco. 
So there we have it. 

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Am I embarrassed it took me this
long to visit Planet Claire? 

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Perhaps. 
But it's also exhilarating 

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knowing that there's still so 
much out there to find as a 

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music listener. 
And if you're a veteran B50 Twos

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fan listening right now, I'm 
sorry. 

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Roll your eyes if you must, but 
let me in. 

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I'm here, I'm ready to dance 
this mess around. 

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And finally, just before we dive
in, if you enjoy the show and 

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want to support it, the best 
thing you can do is leave a 

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rating or review in your podcast
app. 

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It helps so much. 
And if you're feeling generous, 

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there's a link in the show notes
to buy me a coffee. 

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Every little bit helps. 
Please enjoy this conversation 

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with The One. 
And only Kate Pearson of the B50

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twos. 
Kate Pearson, welcome to Tracks 

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of Our Queers. 
Thank you so much for having me.

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I'm here, we're here. 
We're queer. 

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And get used to it. 
Tell me about your earliest 

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musical memory. 
My earliest musical memory was 

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Jerry Lee Lewis, Great Balls of 
Fire. 

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We had an old radio. 
We lived in Weehawken, NJ and we

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had one of those old like old 
fashioned radio had like a green

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eye. 
You probably don't even know 

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about this, but it like a 
console, dark brown. 

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And I had all these dials and it
was just like huge. 

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It was huge, but it was just a 
radio. 

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It was gigantic. 
And I guess I had really good 

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sound and great balls of fire. 
Anyway, the IT blasted out on 

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that radio and I just, it just 
hit me viscerally. 

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I rolled on the floor and 
laughed. 

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It tickled me. 
And that was like, Oh my God, 

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Rock'n'roll had got me and. 
What was the reaction of your 

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family around you? 
Well, my father was a musician. 

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He played guitar and he played 
in a big band when he was very 

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young or early 20s. 
And then when he got married, he

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quit playing. 
I mean, he always played at 

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home, but he quit playing in a 
band. 

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But so he was just, I guess, 
tickled that, you know, I was 

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tickled. 
But yeah, I don't remember their

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reaction. 
I just remember I was so 

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consumed with laughter that I 
don't know what else was around 

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me. 
And then as you were growing 

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older, do you remember perhaps 
what the first piece of music 

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that you owned was, you know, 
when you were trying to kind of 

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shape your own taste in music? 
Oh. 

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I said sound dog. 
I bought Elvis Hound dog. 

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You ain't nothing but a hound 
dog. 

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That was an early thing. 
And I had, I bought some, my 

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father had all these 70 eights 
and he played a lot of jazz and 

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groovy music and a lot of, I 
guess loungy kind of music too. 

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And he had Eva Sumac and all 
that kind of stuff that was 

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popular in the 50s. 
So I was always listening to 

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that and he was always playing 
big band music and he got a 

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modern live by. 
It was a little box in a very 

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50s looking little stand. 
I remember it was a big when he 

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came home with that. 
That was just amazing. 

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It sounds like he had amazing 
taste. 

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He did. 
He had eclectic taste. 

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He was always interested in what
I was listening to. 

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As I grew older too, he listened
to all my stuff too. 

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I love. 
That and my brother played 

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cello, I played piano, my 
grandmother played piano, father

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played guitar, my mother was the
only one that wasn't musical. 

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Typically, our teenage years are
when music might begin to 

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intersect with our identity as 
we're shaping it, whatever that 

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might be. 
And I know that you were 

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incredibly engaged during like 
the folk protest era. 

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I'm keen to understand what 
singers spoke to you from that 

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time in particular and what it 
was about them. 

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I would. 
Ask This girl from New Jersey 

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was just completely enraptured 
with Delta Blues like 

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Mississippi John Hurt. 
Go figure. 

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I don't know why, but I was just
completely enthralled with Delta

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Blues. 
And that's how I really learned 

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to play guitar. 
I mean, I used to sit on my 

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dad's lap and I would strum and 
he would play the chords, but he

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didn't teach me how to play. 
But I just listened to those 

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records and started playing 
guitar. 

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I was just obsessed with 
Mississippi John Hurt, 

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basically. 
I've got to go to Memphis from 

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there to leave. 
I want to see my babe and all 

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the Robert Johnson and all those
Blues guys. 

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But I also listened to all the 
folk I made Bob Dylan. 

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I had stared at Joni Mitchell's 
album. 

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I just stared at her first album
and listened to it over and 

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over. 
I love Joni Mitchell, but I 

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listened to all those folk 
protests, you know, Buffy Sant 

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Marie and Bill Oakes. 
I had a folk protest band in 

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junior high with my friends and 
it was called the Sun Donuts, 

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originally the Sundowners, but 
there was another group called 

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this, you know, big group called
the Sundowners and we. 

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Thought I want to. 
Name them. 

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So Sun Donuts was it? 
So we wrote our own folk protest

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songs, but I've never playing 
Hard Rain's going to fall for my

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face and said this is genius. 
And they were like, ah, we hate 

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him. 
Hate Hayden's voice. 

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We're like, listen, no, listen. 
So I never could get them to 

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like Bob Dylan. 
But yeah, I Pete Seeger and just

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all that good stuff. 
And of course, Mamas and the 

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Papas and, you know, then The 
Beatles. 

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Huge. 
Huge for me. 

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Just about Joni and perhaps Bob 
Dylan in particular, those two 

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artists have obviously gone on 
to have very, very long careers.

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What was your relationship like 
as a listener with them over the

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last few decades? 
Did you continue to listen to 

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their material? 
If you continue to see them 

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live, I'm curious about your 
listener relationship there. 

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I've seen Joni Mitchell a few 
times. 

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I saw her with the orchestra 
that played with her. 

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That was amazing show. 
And Bob Dylan, I've seen quite a

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few times. 
I saw him in the area here, he 

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played the Brickyards. 
He did a lot of his sort of 

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covers of jazz kind of classics.
And surprisingly it was really 

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good. 
I really enjoyed that show. 

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So I followed his career and 
particularly when he had a show 

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on Sirius radio and he'd play 
all this music that he and he 

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could comment that was just 
amazing. 

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And I've always wanted to meet 
Bob Dylan. 

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But then I thought, I don't 
know, maybe not meeting your 

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heroes is not great. 
I don't know. 

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It's some well known wisdom 
isn't it, to not meet your 

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heroes, although I'm sure you've
met quite a few legends in your 

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time. 
But mostly contemporary heroes, 

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you know, my contemporaries who 
are heroes. 

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And I did briefly meet Joni 
Mitchell. 

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And one time I was walking down 
the street in Soho with Keith 

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Strickland, who's in the B50 
Twos. 

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And we were just walking down. 
It was night, and I had a little

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purse and I was spinning it and 
I was singing something like my 

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little red purse. 
And there comes Joni Mitchell 

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walking down the street and past
me. 

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And I was just like, and I 
didn't stop and say anything. 

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I was just like, no, that was my
meeting with her. 

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This is slightly off topic but I
loved hearing you talk about 

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this in interviews and that I'm.
I'm from the UK but I live in 

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Australia and I believe that 
something compelled you to move 

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to Newcastle, England in your 
late teens early 20s. 

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Please can you just tell me why 
and what your recollections are 

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from that time? 
I guess it's like if you moved 

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to America and just went to 
Detroit or something, you know, 

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because it has its fascination, 
it has its great points, but 

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it's not like a place you would 
normally pick like the groovy 

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spot to be when it's hitchhiking
through Europe. 

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After Kent State happened in the
United States, I was involved in

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a civil rights movement and anti
Vietnam and once they shot these

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students at Kent State, I said 
that's it out of here. 

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Like I've said a few times but I
never did move but I'm saying it

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now. 
So I hitchhiked around New York 

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for a couple years. 
I met my future ex-husband from 

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Manchester, Brian Cocaine, and 
we wound up living in Ireland 

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for a while and then we wound up
in Newcastle. 

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He wound up getting a job on a 
fishing boat and I got a job at 

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Wall's End, the Wall's End, on 
tying the Anson pub. 

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So I was a bartenders there and 
Oh my God, the people there were

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just amazing. 
At first I couldn't understand a

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word they said. 
By the time I left, we went to 

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London and we were going back to
America and we checked into this

226
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:10,080
hostel and the guy when I was, 
you know, talking and writing my

227
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:11,760
name and he said, I know where 
you're from. 

228
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:13,680
And I said where? 
And he said, I thought he said, 

229
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:16,120
say, oh, you're from New Jersey 
or America said no, you're from 

230
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,920
Newcastle. 
And I was like, Oh my God, I've 

231
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:23,840
completely absorbed this accent 
to the point where I was going 

232
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,160
way. 
That's so funny. 

233
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,920
Newcastle is such a the people 
there are so wonderful, as 

234
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,480
you've called out, so warm. 
I heard that at the Anson Hotel,

235
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,480
there's a picture of me there. 
I quite rightly, as there should

236
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:41,320
be. 
How did Kate Pearson get from 

237
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,120
Newcastle, England to Athens, 
GA? 

238
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,160
Another kind of long story that 
I'll have to try to make 

239
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,600
concise, but basically we wanted
to move. 

240
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,440
Brian wanted to work on fishing 
boat and he thought we'll go to 

241
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:59,360
South Carolina, but instead my 
good friend said come see. 

242
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,840
As soon as we got back to 
America and Brian brought his 

243
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:08,120
bicycle on the ship, we went on 
this crazy SS Canberra that was 

244
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,480
only $99, didn't go all the way.
A luxury liner went to New York,

245
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,680
that's a whole other story. 
But Brian got his bicycle and 

246
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:19,400
rode from New York City to my 
parents house in New Jersey, 

247
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:24,400
which they were like, what? 
So my friend said come see me. 

248
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,640
And she lived in the house like 
a hippie commune with a bunch of

249
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,160
people. 
And they were driving down to 

250
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,520
Athens to hike the Appalachian 
Trail. 

251
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,440
So we thought, well, let's go 
there. 

252
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,120
And one of them said they could 
give Brian a job without a green

253
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,840
card. 
So we just went there and we 

254
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,920
decided to do a back to the land
thing. 

255
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,240
We had goats and chickens and we
made goat cheese and did the 

256
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,600
whole huge garden and didn't 
hung out with the neighbours, 

257
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,400
didn't go into even to Athens 
town much. 

258
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,960
We rode our bicycles to get, you
know, feed and, and Athens was 

259
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,440
very much like a farmer's town, 
had a seed store and a feed 

260
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:08,040
store and farmer's hardware. 
And then later we broke up and I

261
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,680
met the band and I got a job in 
town. 

262
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:14,680
And Athens was still a very 
sleepy farmer's town when the 

263
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,320
B52 started. 
Yeah, honestly, that lifestyle 

264
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,960
with the goats and the goat 
cheese and riding your bicycle 

265
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,520
sounds absolutely idyllic. 
I was by choice, very poor. 

266
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,520
I mean, I guess by choice, but I
was my friend said, Oh, you were

267
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,520
the poorest person. 
I know, you know, And it was 

268
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:37,760
just interesting to see how 
quickly you can feel poor, even 

269
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,400
if it's by choice. 
I mean, my parents are by no 

270
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,240
means supporting me in any way 
or rich or had any money. 

271
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,880
But but still, I could have 
worked at a better job. 

272
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,840
But we started to do this back 
to the land thing and not work 

273
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,440
and just work at the garden and 
subsist. 

274
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,280
And pretty soon you could start 
feeling like I'm really poor and

275
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,960
you get that mindset. 
You can't pay for anyone to pick

276
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,040
up the trash. 
So you understand how people 

277
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,720
have old cars, you know, in 
their backyard. 

278
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:10,120
So I did get a job and then I 
met the band and then none of us

279
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,240
had any money when we started. 
But I worked at the Athens 

280
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,800
newspaper as a pay step artist. 
And then I'm started touring and

281
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,440
the band started playing a lot 
of gigs and I had to quit that. 

282
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:35,760
And then we just did it. 
The story of the bands founding 

283
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,400
is a well documented 1, and it's
often been described as a 

284
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,240
spontaneous combustion. 
Do you recall that initial first

285
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,840
impression of when you met your 
fellow bandmates for the first 

286
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,040
time? 
Yes, I met them in different, 

287
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,680
slightly different times, but I 
met Keith Strickland who was 

288
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,640
playing in another band, just 
subbing. 

289
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,600
He was playing drums. 
And my friend Jeremy Ayers, who 

290
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,600
was very influential to all of 
us, took me to see and he said 

291
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,360
there's that drummer, Keith 
Strickland. 

292
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,960
So I met Keith. 
I met Ricky then because he was 

293
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:06,200
always hanging around with 
Keith. 

294
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,160
And then I met Fred at a party. 
We were dancing together. 

295
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,680
And then I met Cindy at a 
Halloween. 

296
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,520
Fred and I both met Cindy on 
Halloween and we had masks on. 

297
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,400
And I had this mask. 
I had very long hair, and I had 

298
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:25,079
this Angel mask with wings that 
I had made out of, you know, and

299
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:29,240
it's made it anyway, and I put 
my hair over the wings. 

300
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,600
Cindy said her first impression 
was like, whoa. 

301
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,680
I love it. 
So usually when I speak to a 

302
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,440
guest on tracks of our queries, 
the guests will bring a track, 

303
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,520
an album and an artist. 
And we're keeping that format 

304
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,560
with our conversation, Kate. 
But we're also staying a bit 

305
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,920
closer to home and I can't wait 
to hear why. 

306
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,960
I've been firmly planted on 
Planet B52 for the last couple 

307
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,840
of weeks. 
I've been fully immersed in the 

308
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,440
audio visual world of your band 
and of course your solo music, 

309
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,160
which we're going to get to. 
I've got a lot of questions 

310
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,920
about your solo music as well. 
OK, When I look at that time 

311
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,920
period of late 70s, early 80s, I
am fascinated by how such a 

312
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:12,760
obviously eccentric, esoteric 
band was signed by a major label

313
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,920
in the US. 
Now, with the benefit of 

314
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,480
hindsight, what do you think 
convinced them to take a chance 

315
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:19,960
on you? 
Because we know that you 

316
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,720
resonated very quickly with 
audiences, but what convinced 

317
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,320
those corporates to sign the 
contract? 

318
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:43,280
I think definitely it's the word
of mouth and the audience 

319
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,560
reaction because even though 
some people in the music 

320
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,720
industry, like Seymour Stein, 
who desperately wanted to sign 

321
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:55,520
us, was a very musical kind of 
AR record head, I mean, he 

322
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,920
really, really loved music. 
We were pursued by Island 

323
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,160
Records and Virgin Records and 
we didn't know what to do. 

324
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,680
We were just frozen. 
We didn't know what to do, so we

325
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,240
just waited, which was great. 
Then when we were playing 

326
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,240
Phoebe, Jeebies and Max and 
Skans Infinity, Tina and Chris 

327
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,920
from Talking Heads introduced us
to Gary Kerfurst, our first 

328
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,280
manager, and he was instrumental
in getting a sign. 

329
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,000
But it really was the fact that 
we were attracting such a crowd 

330
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,560
that all these record companies,
Seymour Stein and they all came 

331
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,360
down to Athens. 
Virgin Records came down to 

332
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:30,480
Athens to try to woo us and all 
we could think of as free 

333
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,200
dinner. 
They're going to take us out to 

334
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,280
dinner. 
I would think the same we. 

335
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,680
Just didn't know what to do. 
But it was definitely not so 

336
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,360
much that they loved the music 
or recognised its unique 

337
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,960
qualities. 
It was more like they've got 

338
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,800
something. 
We don't know what it is, but 

339
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,960
it's some kind of alchemy that's
attracting people and making 

340
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,680
people dance and it's something 
new and different and we want to

341
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:56,440
sign them for that reason. 
Everybody goes to parties. 

342
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,480
Of course, I love that you know 
the B52 as well, especially 

343
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,280
yourself and Cindy were 
sometimes mistaken for drag 

344
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:16,560
Queens or thought to be from the
UK, which I also equally love. 

345
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,000
I'm obsessed as as a Brit that 
you know, there are these 

346
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,280
amazing American bands or 
artists who if that's slightly 

347
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:28,200
left of field or bring a 
quirkiness, people just assume 

348
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,520
they're from the UK. 
This is like being from bars, 

349
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,400
you know UK or they did say they
were matters space too or the 

350
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,360
UK. 
And there's other bands in more 

351
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,480
recent years like the Gossip and
the Scissor Sisters who've kind 

352
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,960
of tread a similar path. 
And I love that they slot into a

353
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,920
lineage that perhaps the B50 
twos began, because it then ties

354
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,960
into this whole idea of 
otherness. 

355
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,280
And then it comes back to who 
were the people who were 

356
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,200
crowding your audiences? 
Yes, there might have been 

357
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,120
people there who just really 
loved the music, but I know that

358
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:03,600
there were people there who felt
seen in what you were producing,

359
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,680
the image that you were putting 
out there, people who might have

360
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,920
felt a little bit outcast from 
mainstream society. 

361
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,720
There's lines in your music. 
Like I love the line in the 

362
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,360
song. 
There's a moon in the sky where 

363
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:16,440
it's. 
If you're in outer space, don't 

364
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,960
feel out of place because there 
are thousands of others like 

365
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:20,680
you. 
Others like you. 

366
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:34,680
Yes. 
Four out of five of the original

367
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,920
B52 members are or were gay or 
queer identifying. 

368
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,480
And I know that each of you 
would have had your own very 

369
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,000
personal relationship with your 
identity, and I'd love to ask 

370
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,000
you a little bit more about your
own. 

371
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,680
But do you recall any early 
discussions in the 70s or 80s 

372
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,680
around feeling a little bit 
different from other people in 

373
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,080
that area of your life? 
Was it something that was openly

374
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:02,480
discussed, or did you know that 
each other were perhaps queer? 

375
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,160
Well, definitely Fred and Cindy 
and Ricky knew they were queer. 

376
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,400
And Cindy's, she's experimental.
But no, she's been married a 

377
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,080
long time and heterosexual. 
But, you know, I didn't know I 

378
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:17,520
was really with men until I met 
Monica. 

379
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,960
But we all had a collective 
queer sensibility. 

380
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:27,080
I mean, I right away flipped 
into that kind of humour. 

381
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,000
That's very gay. 
And I guess because Keith 

382
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,360
Strickland says this a lot, that
he growing up in Athens, she 

383
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:37,600
didn't feel that much of other 
being gay. 

384
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,080
And he and Ricky, because Athens
is a, you know, university town,

385
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,240
even though there were jocks 
there and actually they threw 

386
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,080
bricks at US1 time because we 
were all dressed crazy and 

387
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,520
they'd missed. 
But but it was, you know, we 

388
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,600
were really I guess we had a 
queer sensibility identity and 

389
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,240
our look too, because we'd loved
to look at these 60s magazines 

390
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,160
that Vogue that Diana Freeland 
was the editor then and this 

391
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,080
really love to mind the thrift 
stores and wear wigs. 

392
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:14,720
So it wasn't specifically, he 
said he never felt like he was 

393
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,800
an outcast in Athens and he 
always was out. 

394
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,920
And Ricky was very, very quiet 
and shy. 

395
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,840
And Fred of course, in his like 
outlandish, you know, his 

396
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:33,480
outfits and his loud shirts and 
it's painted on moustache and 

397
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,360
his whole shtick was very, very 
gay. 

398
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,720
When you mentioned that he never
felt like he had to come out 

399
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,920
because he didn't feel other 
than the town, it sounds like he

400
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,240
was allowed to just completely 
flourish to be himself. 

401
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,480
And Keith and Ricky went up to 
visit our friend Jeremy Ayers, 

402
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,480
who was part of the Warhol 
Factory Group. 

403
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,080
He was a silver thin. 
And so they went to visit him in

404
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,080
New York. 
And they said that the, some of 

405
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,320
the people at the Factory 
treated them really kind of 

406
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,840
disdainfully. 
So they but Athens was just like

407
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,280
this little beautiful cocoon 
where you could be anything you 

408
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,840
wanted. 
Southern eccentrics and gay 

409
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,080
people and, you know, women, 
everyone just sort of included 

410
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,160
because there was a big art 
school there. 

411
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,160
And even though there were, it 
was a big football team thing, 

412
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,320
there was also this big 
flourishing art scene and people

413
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,120
just gravitated there. 
But there were no bands when we 

414
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:26,560
started. 
There was a Southern boogie kind

415
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,880
of music scene. 
No punk bands or nothing was 

416
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:40,880
happening. 
But it kind of makes sense now, 

417
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,160
understanding why your success 
there was so extraordinary, 

418
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:49,240
because it sounds like it was a 
scene waiting for music to be 

419
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:50,760
made there. 
It had all of the right 

420
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,720
elements. 
It was almost like it was just 

421
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,040
ready to explode. 
Yeah, it was like Fertile and 

422
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:58,880
Fred. 
I mean, Fred just let a tweak 

423
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,680
flag fly. 
He used to just run down the 

424
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:06,040
street with a crazy wig on. 
And, you know, he was a waiter 

425
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,640
at the local restaurant and he'd
wear crazy, you know, leopard 

426
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,440
bell bottoms and seems to wear a
little red wig. 

427
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:18,480
And yeah, so we could just 
really be ourselves and just do 

428
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,480
crazy stuff and run around and 
do our thing. 

429
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,120
I have got so many questions I 
could ask you about you know 

430
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,640
that the early years of your 
career in the B52, some 

431
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,840
incredible albums and some 
amazing tracks there. 

432
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,720
But I am limited in time. 
So we're going to jump a bit 

433
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,720
forward to the album that you 
picked for this conversation, 

434
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,400
which is Cosmic Thing and I'm 
very interested in many parts of

435
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,400
Cosmic Things story. 
But can you please just 

436
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:52,280
summarise where Cosmic Things 
sits in the B50 twos body of 

437
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,280
work when it was released in the
mid 80s? 

438
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,200
What was happening before and 
what what produced that specific

439
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:11,120
album? 
Well, the body of our work was 

440
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,920
before that. 
We haven't really done many 

441
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,160
albums. 
I guess the secret to our 

442
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,640
longevity is we took breaks. 
We didn't grind ourselves into 

443
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,600
the ground, although we've done 
tonnes, tonnes of touring. 

444
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,600
But still we did take some 
breaks. 

445
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,080
But the cosmic thing, I mean, 
obviously the B52 is I picked 

446
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,560
that because that's the most 
influential thing that happened 

447
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,160
in my life, being part of that 
band. 

448
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,000
But cosmic thing was a rebirth 
in a lot of ways. 

449
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,080
It was like a phoenix because 
after Ricky died in 1985 of 

450
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,560
AIDS, Oh my God, it was just, it
seemed so devastating. 

451
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,560
It didn't seem like we would 
ever come back from that. 

452
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,960
And yet music is so healing. 
When we decided to get back 

453
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,200
together, it really was just a 
healing process. 

454
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,520
And we even said, which we never
do make declarations, but we 

455
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,680
said we're not doing this for 
radio or for commercial 

456
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,800
purposes. 
We're doing this for ourselves 

457
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,800
to heal. 
And it just felt like we 

458
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,760
conjured Ricky's spirit back. 
And a lot of the songs on Cosmic

459
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:20,320
Thing recall this time in Athens
of innocence and starting out 

460
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,760
and unselfconsciousness. 
I remember Bob Dylan saying 

461
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,640
something about when you first 
start writing, you're totally 

462
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,720
unselfconscious about it and 
then you have to sort of try not

463
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,040
to be so conscious. 
And then this, we were not 

464
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,760
self-conscious. 
We just let it flow and all 

465
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,440
these songs came out and it 
really just was kind of 

466
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,240
miraculous and and healing the 
way it just turned out to be 

467
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,720
something that was such a 
success so. 

468
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:08,680
The album, It came out of an 
intensive grieving period and I 

469
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,840
love that it and Locked in You, 
that sense of unconscious, just 

470
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,680
letting it flow. 
But after having gone through 

471
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,600
something so tragic and awful 
and adult, but especially 

472
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,720
specifically in the 80's, the 
spectre of HIV, AIDS was 

473
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,000
everywhere and it was taking a 
lot of incredibly talented, 

474
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,000
creative people and it was 
impacting your band right there 

475
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,960
and then, someone who'd been 
with you from the beginning. 

476
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,640
Do you think that's what 
naturally led to that reclaiming

477
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,120
of a more innocent time? 
Going back to a time where that 

478
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,880
there's not even a word to 
summarise really the impact that

479
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,600
HIV AIDS was having, but going 
back to a time where that simply

480
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,480
didn't exist. 
Yeah, I mean, that was just so 

481
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,040
devastating. 
So many friends, so many 

482
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,440
beautiful. 
Just the brightest lights it 

483
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,080
seemed. 
This beautiful people, artists 

484
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,520
and musicians and I mean all 
fashion, everyone, you know, 

485
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,160
we're just falling, just falling
down. 

486
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,320
It was just so devastating, so 
many friends. 

487
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,880
And it's hard to think how we 
could have survived even just 

488
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,760
going through that. 
And there was such a lack of 

489
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,320
support from the government. 
And, you know, I remember ACT UP

490
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,320
and so much activism and yet it 
was a spell on deaf ears a lot. 

491
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,920
And it it was a time when just 
it was very bleak, but there 

492
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,320
were so many people doing great 
music and there was a lot of 

493
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,720
dancing and there was kind of 
the birth of hip hop happening. 

494
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,560
It was really exciting too. 
So you had to have a counter to 

495
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,280
that grief. 
You had to have something that 

496
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,920
can enliven your spirit during 
that time. 

497
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,880
So I think, you know, Cosmic 
Things certainly was a 

498
00:29:53,880 --> 00:30:00,680
culmination of pulling yourself 
out of grief or mourning and 

499
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,960
hard times because we were 
always about, you know, being a 

500
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,120
tacky little dance band from 
Athens. 

501
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,160
So, you know, we have to hold up
that lag. 

502
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,120
And I wonder if those fans who 
had been with you since the very

503
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,160
beginning and would obviously 
notice Ricky's absence 

504
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,520
initially, I wonder if they also
additionally noticed a change in

505
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,960
your music as a result. 
Like, had something switched in 

506
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,640
the band, have dynamics changed 
for better or for worse? 

507
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,640
I'm imagining, you know, I'm 
sure a lot of people would have 

508
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,280
seen there's something different
here. 

509
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,600
Oh I'm sure, I'm sure they 
realised that the songs were 

510
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:39,440
about a lot of times in Athens 
and conjuring up those times 

511
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:40,840
where we were together with 
Ricky. 

512
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,040
But also it was a huge change in
the sound. 

513
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,640
We had a so-called side 
musicians, but they're really 

514
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,520
part of our family, part of the 
band. 

515
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,360
But we switched the sound to a 
bigger sound. 

516
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,800
And our first album, we were so 
disappointed. 

517
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,680
After we recorded that with 
Chris Blackwell, his idea was, 

518
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,920
oh, I want them to sound just 
like they sound. 

519
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,440
And we did. 
And we're like, what? 

520
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,120
We don't, we don't want to. 
We will sound bigger, better. 

521
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,160
But it was a genius drug of 
genius on his part to capture 

522
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,520
that sparse, punk, real raw kind
of spirit in that first album. 

523
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,880
So I'm sure some fans missed 
that sensibility, that dark drip

524
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,000
down kind of sensibility that 
the band had and very quirky. 

525
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,480
But the whole, all the songs 
really on cosmic thing were much

526
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,880
more explosive, much more 
musical in a lot of ways, you 

527
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,160
know, just called for more, just
more. 

528
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,800
You've said you've used words 
like explosive, bigger and 

529
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,240
better, and I think, you know, 
we have to acknowledge that the 

530
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,560
album achieved levels of 
commercial and critical success 

531
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,600
for you which were off the 
chain. 

532
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,920
And I find that fascinating. 
For a band who already had at 

533
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,600
least a decade into their bout 
of producing and writing and 

534
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,080
performing to then achieve this 
extraordinary level of success, 

535
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,240
did you feel gratified by that? 
Did you feel like you were 

536
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,640
finally being recognised on a 
bigger scale for your work? 

537
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,640
Well, it's an interesting thing 
that I think you really need to 

538
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,280
have to be have a commercial 
success. 

539
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,560
You need to have a record label 
really behind you and bouncing 

540
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,800
off the satellites, which is the
last record that Ricky worked on

541
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,520
and I think it was a brilliant 
album. 

542
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,080
It completely they completely 
dropped it. 

543
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,120
We couldn't tour because I mean 
we were get another guitar 

544
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,160
player. 
We're like no way we can't tour.

545
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,800
So they just thought that's the 
end of the B50 twos. 

546
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,440
We'll just drop this album. 
And MO Austin, the head of 

547
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,680
Warner Brothers told me later, 
you know, we've dropped the ball

548
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,360
on that. 
So I think they really got 

549
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,040
behind cosmic thing, which was a
key element I think in making it

550
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,720
success because just having 
radio, getting radio play that, 

551
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,760
you know, people that would push
the record for radio for the 

552
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,560
label. 
And it helps a lot to have, you 

553
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,560
know, to have that because 
working now is the solo artist 

554
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,840
too, finding that course radio. 
They say don't even bother with 

555
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,360
radio. 
We don't even have a radio 

556
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,720
department anymore. 
It's all about online and 

557
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,240
TikTok, but I love radio. 
I still listen to radio and get 

558
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,160
a lot of my music from radio and
podcasts are kind of like the 

559
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,440
radio. 
My last question actually on 

560
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,320
Ricky before we move on was, you
know, you've acknowledged the 

561
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,800
loss of so many people, but 
Ricky's guitar work in 

562
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,760
particular in recent years seems
to be repeatedly lauded, awarded

563
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:05,360
as some of the most creative, 
unique, innovative playing. 

564
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:20,520
And was that something that you 
always recognise at the time, or

565
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,120
is that something that's come 
with hindsight? 

566
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,080
Oh yeah, he was, oh, fierce 
guitar player. 

567
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,880
And live he treated it like a 
machine gun. 

568
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,000
He was like moving, like really 
in this herky jerky movements. 

569
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,960
And he sweat so much that he 
could literally wring his shirt 

570
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,040
out. 
He was so intense and I have to 

571
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,920
give it to Keith Strickland. 
He and Keith work together on a 

572
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,800
lot of the riffs that Keith came
up with. 

573
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,360
A lot of guitar parts too. 
The fascinating thing is in Rock

574
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,920
Lobster he broke 2 strings. 
So he had four strings just and 

575
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,880
strings and he wound up playing 
like 2 very different parts on 

576
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,880
those strings. 
And I just, I'm still fascinated

577
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:59,880
how he came up with that. 
It's just amazing. 

578
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,680
And he played with such 
intensity. 

579
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,160
But when Keith took over, he's 
playing guitar and he was the 

580
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,840
drummer first and then Cosmic 
Thing, he took up playing the 

581
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,440
guitar. 
He really, really had to embrace

582
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,240
Ricky's parts, which he knew, 
but still to play that and then 

583
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:18,640
make it in his own style and 
come up with all the music for 

584
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,320
Cosmic Thing, which is pretty 
amazing. 

585
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,840
And on top of all of that, doing
all of that functional stuff 

586
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,640
that's required in a band, but 
also, you know, you're kind of 

587
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,000
replacing someone who you love. 
Your best friend is gone. 

588
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,880
So there's all the the grieving 
complications with it as well. 

589
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:39,520
The artwork of cosmic Thing, I 
have to say, the album sounds 

590
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,360
how the artwork looks. 
Does that make sense to you? 

591
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,280
Yes, I think it does, yeah. 
It's fabulous. 

592
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,200
It's we wanted to represent us 
live, I guess. 

593
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,280
Yes, yeah, it's magical. 
Nile Rogers brought his own 

594
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,880
magic. 
I imagine he produced some of 

595
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,760
the songs there. 
And I actually wondered about 

596
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,240
the sort of full circle 
connection there, because the 

597
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:02,000
B52's are not a disco band. 
You were a punk band, but there 

598
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,800
were disco elements that ran 
through your music. 

599
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,080
I don't know if you agree with 
that or not, but I'm fascinated 

600
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:09,560
by that. 
Era of disco. 

601
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,880
Absolutely. 
But you were also coming up at, 

602
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:14,400
you know, through like, the 
Disco Sucks movement where there

603
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,000
was a lot of backlash against 
Disco, the associations there 

604
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,680
with homophobia and racism, of 
course, that people have 

605
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,120
discussed a lot more in recent 
years. 

606
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,240
Then to have Nile Rogers as one 
of like, the founding fathers of

607
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:28,800
disco working with you, that 
seems like a bit of a full 

608
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,080
circle moment for me. 
What was it like with him in the

609
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,000
studio? 
Well, we love disco. 

610
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,640
For one thing. 
We're never disco sucks. 

611
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,120
We love anything you could dance
to. 

612
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,520
And then, you know, in Athens, 
we would dance to a lot of 

613
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,080
eclectic music. 
We'd listen to African music 

614
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,160
because the University of 
Georgia library was vast and we 

615
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,160
could get access to a lot of 
music. 

616
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,160
But Don Rogers was so easy to 
work with. 

617
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,080
We interviewed a bunch of 
different producers, and we met 

618
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:02,160
Don Was, and neither of them 
could work the whole time frame 

619
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,480
to produce the whole record. 
So we decided, well, why not? 

620
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,800
We'll just have two producers. 
So we worked with Don Was and 

621
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,840
Don Rogers. 
And Don Rogers is completely 

622
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:17,560
like, he's just a lot about 
production and adding stuff to 

623
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,160
it. 
And Don wasn't much more like 

624
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,080
organic. 
Let's just play the songs here, 

625
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,480
we'll practise and we'll just 
suss them out and listen to the 

626
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,160
tapes and drive around. 
So they had really different 

627
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,160
approaches, but I think it 
sounds all like 1 record. 

628
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,680
I've also been looking at the 
setlist of your solo shows 

629
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,880
because you've been touring a 
lot solo recently. 

630
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,000
And of course yes, the bulk of 
your setlist is your amazing 

631
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,880
solo material, which we're going
to get to very soon. 

632
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,200
But there's 2 tracks from the 
Cosmic Thing album that pop up 

633
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,280
in your set list a lot. 
There's Rome and Deadbeat Club. 

634
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,320
I wonder if they are the ones 
that you have the most special 

635
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,000
relationship with perhaps? 
Yeah, I mean, there are several.

636
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,880
There are a bunch of songs that 
we have to do and we'd like to 

637
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:03,960
play some deep cuts, and we've 
recently put in Devils in My Car

638
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,480
and Queen of Las Vegas, which 
people haven't heard that much. 

639
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:21,350
But it was really fun to do 
that. 

640
00:38:21,350 --> 00:38:26,230
But if we don't play Rome or 
Love Shack or probably Planet 

641
00:38:26,230 --> 00:38:30,670
Claire or Private Idaho or Rock 
Lobster, you know people will 

642
00:38:30,670 --> 00:38:33,630
really not be happy. 
And you want to have people way 

643
00:38:33,630 --> 00:38:37,150
being satisfied. 
So we can, as long as we do 

644
00:38:37,150 --> 00:38:41,040
these key songs and people go 
away, you know, feeling good. 

645
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,160
For sure, for sure. 
But you know, it's different, 

646
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,600
isn't it? 
Because you've had to perform 

647
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,480
these songs hundreds, thousands 
of times, and you know them 

648
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:51,040
inside out, and you're probably 
just chomping at the bit to play

649
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,720
new material. 
But for the listeners of these 

650
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:56,920
songs, you know, Rome sounds 
like freedom. 

651
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,720
And for people to listen and 
hear live a song that reminds 

652
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:04,480
them of freedom from an earlier 
part of their life is just pure 

653
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:22,410
magic. 
And Deadbeat Club, of course, is

654
00:39:22,410 --> 00:39:24,570
that very early Athens 
nostalgia. 

655
00:39:24,890 --> 00:39:27,770
One that I've been coming back 
to a lot in researching for this

656
00:39:27,770 --> 00:39:29,770
conversation is I really love 
Dry County. 

657
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:40,880
I do. 
I do love that. 

658
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,320
I wish we could do that. 
Maybe we should add that. 

659
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:47,640
There are a lot of songs that we
would love to add. 

660
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,040
But yeah, I think Dry County is 
a really good one. 

661
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,360
We should. 
I'll mention that to revive. 

662
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,440
We have managed to kind of avoid
so far the monster track, the 

663
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,560
huge track of Cosmic Thing, the 
track that you chose as your 

664
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,080
selection for this conversation,
which is Love Shack. 

665
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,960
How do I ask you questions that 
haven't been asked before about 

666
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:18,760
Love Shack? 
Well, first of all, I'll 

667
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,560
probably just call out that you 
can physically hear how much fun

668
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,160
everyone is having on that song.
Like, do you know when you're 

669
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,800
speaking to someone on the phone
and you can hear when they're 

670
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:29,520
smiling? 
Right? 

671
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,760
That's what the listener 
experience is like is with Love 

672
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,120
Shack. 
Do you recall it being that fun 

673
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,600
to record? 
Yes, and it was not fun to write

674
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:43,360
because we had a different 
versions of it and it was very 

675
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,640
controversial because Fred and I
were like it's going to be hit 

676
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,200
and he said it's not ready. 
And he was right. 

677
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,000
It wasn't ready, but we knew it 
was going to be really good. 

678
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:58,040
So I I knew we had to have the 
chorus in there more because I 

679
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,880
said before we have a lot of 
times we'd string these parts 

680
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,960
together. 
Oh, that's a good part. 

681
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,280
And we don't necessarily repeat 
a lot. 

682
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,320
Even in Love Shack parts 
different. 

683
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,600
All the parts are different. 
I knew we'd had to have an 

684
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,440
anchor with the chorus, with the
Love Shack is the little old 

685
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:24,560
place and the Love Shack. 
So when we went to record with 

686
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,040
Don, we played it live and we 
recording at Dreamland, which is

687
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,280
right down the road from here 
and it's in an old church. 

688
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,000
It's very funky place. 
We we just played it and played 

689
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,360
it. 
And then Don, I said to Don, 

690
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,160
don't you think it needs that 
chorus? 

691
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,760
And he was like, absolutely. 
That's what I was thinking. 

692
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,000
And so he suggested it. 
It wasn't coming from me, so it 

693
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,320
had to come from someone else, 
but it all came together. 

694
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,840
So then it was like, OK, it's a 
song. 

695
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,760
It has choruses, that's parts 
that bring it together. 

696
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,040
And it became like, OK, this is 
really like, great. 

697
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:11,640
Now this is a great song. 
So when we finally got it 

698
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,120
together and recorded it, we had
this party track going. 

699
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,920
So we had a bunch of friends and
people doing this, like, you 

700
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,520
know, background party track. 
So it really was fun. 

701
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,520
And the sort of style that Don 
was of recording, we would play 

702
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,040
it all together. 
And it was before there was a 

703
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,240
lot of, you know, digital 
manipulation. 

704
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:34,840
So we had to get the right feel 
and the right vibe. 

705
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,000
So we would be singing live with
the man playing. 

706
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,120
So it was all very organically 
produced. 

707
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:44,120
And then, you know, the party 
track. 

708
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,000
So it was fun. 
It was fun. 

709
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,400
You can hear the fun. 
I agree you can hear it. 

710
00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:52,280
And you can see the fun in the 
video starring, of course, 

711
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,240
RuPaul. 
Yes, yes. 

712
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,520
What do you remember about 
filming the video? 

713
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,120
Well, it was our friend Phillip 
Mayberry and Scott Walker. 

714
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,760
They lived in this house that 
was their house, the 

715
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:09,120
checkerboard roof, a real house.
And they had goats that one 

716
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,800
featured in the video, Kate and 
Cindy were the goats. 

717
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:14,040
So they were big fans, but we 
didn't know them. 

718
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,760
And our friend Tommy Rubinitz 
and our producer director was 

719
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,600
like, well, we don't want to go 
out of the city. 

720
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,960
Let's shoot in the studio. 
But finally we got them to look 

721
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:23,360
at it. 
And they were like, Oh my God, 

722
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,680
this is the this is the Love 
Shack. 

723
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,960
And we got there early in the 
morning. 

724
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,960
It was kind of dusty and hot, 
but we did a lot of driving down

725
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:37,120
the road and in that car, the 
first scene and there and we had

726
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,400
our friends. 
We invited all these friends to 

727
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,920
come and be in it, including 
RuPaul, and RuPaul really 

728
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,880
galvanised it. 
At one point, I think we were 

729
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,200
just sort of flagging on and he 
was like, OK, everybody dance 

730
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,960
line and he got everyone to do 
that dance line. 

731
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,880
And once we did that, it just 
became like a party. 

732
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,960
So actually doing the video was 
kind of like we're in a party 

733
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,480
making a party video. 
And just to connect this back to

734
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:03,560
one of the first questions that 
I asked around this idea of 

735
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,520
inclusivity is that it's easy 
for us to look back and apply 

736
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,280
new ways of interpreting things.
And sometimes songs just happen 

737
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:12,720
because they're fun and that's 
it. 

738
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:16,640
But I can't help but look at the
Love Shack now as an anthem for 

739
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,480
a reason. 
It's about an all inclusive, 

740
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,880
sweaty, glitter E welcoming 
place where everyone can escape 

741
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,680
to. 
But I like to apply a bit of a 

742
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,360
queer reading to that as well. 
And that being a bit of an 

743
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,080
anthem of where people are 
welcome here. 

744
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,400
It's a place where we can get 
together, Keep away if you're 

745
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,120
not interested, this place is 
for us. 

746
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,560
I mean, the line that Fred does 
Stay away, fools. 

747
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,000
Love rules at the Love Shack. 
That just says it all, yeah. 

748
00:44:50,940 --> 00:44:53,220
We're going to move on to your 
solo work. 

749
00:44:53,220 --> 00:44:55,020
There's so much to cover here 
and I don't want to keep you 

750
00:44:55,020 --> 00:44:57,140
late. 
You have worked with the 

751
00:44:57,140 --> 00:45:01,720
Ramones, Iggy Pop in Japan, You 
joined a band in the late 90s 

752
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:04,800
where you have #1 records there.
There's so much we could talk 

753
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,720
about. 
You've of course shared a 

754
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,880
beautiful creative friendship 
with Michael Stipe from R.E.M. 

755
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,000
Just that other day there's a 
video of You 2 rehearsing Shiny 

756
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,360
Happy People. 
For. 

757
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:20,720
ATV show it is just pure joy 
when you harmonise and Michael 

758
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:39,560
is looking at you and smiling. 
I think we're all watching that 

759
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,600
thinking. 
I wish I could be singing with 

760
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,040
my best friend and harmonising 
and smiling like that. 

761
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,560
It's just so joyous. 
That video was was so much fun 

762
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:49,880
to do. 
And Michael did the 

763
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,760
choreography. 
He had some dance routine mapped

764
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,720
out. 
And our friend April, he was a 

765
00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:59,120
grade school teacher, so her 
students painted the backdrop. 

766
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,200
And Catherine Diekman, who 
directed the video, was just a 

767
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,280
friend. 
And so it was all got. 

768
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,680
All those videos that you get 
all your friends together to do 

769
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,680
it are the best, You know, all 
people dancing. 

770
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,560
Just get your friends. 
You don't have to hire anyone. 

771
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,760
Everyone just sort of joins in. 
That was a really fun. 

772
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,600
And then recording it at 
Prince's studio was pretty 

773
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,160
magical. 
It was a big snowstorm and 

774
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,960
Michael and I had a little, you 
know, fun snowball fight and, 

775
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,360
and we kept thinking Prince is 
going to appear, but Prince 

776
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:44,130
never appeared. 
And then in 2015, you released 

777
00:46:44,130 --> 00:46:47,210
your first solo record. 
And I know there was a lot to 

778
00:46:47,210 --> 00:46:50,450
get there that I've skipped 
over, but just tell me about the

779
00:46:50,450 --> 00:46:53,690
feelings of, you know, you'd 
been in the B50 twos, You'd been

780
00:46:53,690 --> 00:46:56,370
in Nina in Japan, so you'd been 
in bands where you could 

781
00:46:56,370 --> 00:46:59,050
collaborate with other people. 
Tell me about moving into a 

782
00:46:59,050 --> 00:47:01,570
space where this is a Kate 
Pearson album. 

783
00:47:01,570 --> 00:47:05,600
It's your name on the album, but
with that comes the ability to 

784
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,720
completely control the music to 
how you want it. 

785
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:11,200
What's your recollections of 
those times? 

786
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:16,520
Well, for one thing, during the 
late 90s, I wrote an entire 

787
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,120
album of songs collaborating 
with a lot. 

788
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:23,240
I just wrote myself or I 
collaborated with some other 

789
00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:26,440
people, but I didn't get to put 
it out because our our 

790
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,760
management at the time was just 
really stalling. 

791
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,520
Oh, you can't do it because 
Warner Brothers, you know, they 

792
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,680
don't want to release anything. 
Why don't you do a book? 

793
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,080
I mean, this really stalled me. 
And we were touring a lot too. 

794
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,640
So I just didn't put it out. 
And some of those songs reached 

795
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,680
this. 
My latest one, like always till 

796
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:47,880
now, is one of the songs that I 
wrote way back then. 

797
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:59,400
We would always be. 
So I had all those songs, but 

798
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,680
then, as you said, I was in this
bandina in Japan and the other 

799
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,480
singer was Yuki and we didn't 
speak the same language. 

800
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,800
But I realised then I could 
collaborate with anyone. 

801
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:11,800
It was just like a dream 
collaboration. 

802
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,480
I mean, people in Japan, it's 
like, oh, I love your part. 

803
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,760
No, I love your part. 
It's not like a competition like

804
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:18,840
that. 
My part's better. 

805
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,160
It was just so it was so easy 
and fun. 

806
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,360
And if we did have a number one 
and it was all about the food 

807
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:28,560
course during Japan, but I felt 
like I unlocked this creative 

808
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:32,280
energy then, but I still hadn't 
done a solo record. 

809
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,040
And my wife Monica, though 
instrumental in it. 

810
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,880
He we befriended Sia. 
We met her through our friends 

811
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,720
Betty, the band Betty. 
And so they introduced us to 

812
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:45,360
Thea and we hit it off and 
Monica asked Sia, would you help

813
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,240
Kate, please just get this out 
because it's something she's 

814
00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:51,280
just dying to do. 
I went to LA and we started 

815
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:54,160
going in these writing sessions 
and I was like, Oh my God, I'm 

816
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,000
sort of terrified. 
But one of the first songs we 

817
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,280
wrote was Every Day is 
Halloween, which is on this 

818
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:11,200
record. 
So with Sam Dixon, Sia and I 

819
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:16,040
just sat in a room and came up 
with this song and going to 

820
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,840
these writing sessions started 
me off. 

821
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,520
And then she started really 
blowing up her career and so I 

822
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,520
finished it and worked with 
Chris Braid, Lou McCauley and 

823
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,560
Jimmy Harry. 
Tim Anderson produced it. 

824
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,560
So it was just really, really 
fun and I just felt like 

825
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,560
empowered. 
I just felt like it was easy. 

826
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,520
The writing sessions, I just 
realised, wow, it's just working

827
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:40,440
every time. 
And all these different people. 

828
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,600
And for the most part they did 
all the instrumentation and I 

829
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,080
would add the, you know, do the 
melodies and lyrics and 

830
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,640
harmonies and stuff. 
But it was just so empowering to

831
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,880
realise that I could work with 
anyone pretty much. 

832
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,960
I don't think there was ever a 
failed dive. 

833
00:50:05,140 --> 00:50:07,820
The album Radios and Rainbow is 
your second sort of album. 

834
00:50:08,020 --> 00:50:11,820
It sounds so personal, It's 
joyful, it's vulnerable at 

835
00:50:11,820 --> 00:50:14,100
times. 
And then there's party tracks 

836
00:50:14,100 --> 00:50:16,500
like Take Me Back to the Party. 
So much fun. 

837
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:19,000
Yeah, Pillow Queen. 
I couldn't work out whether 

838
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,200
that's complimentary or 
insulting, but I feel like a 

839
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,760
pillow queen that I felt seen by
that song. 

840
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:40,030
I think it's complimentary, yes.
It's just someone who's relaxed 

841
00:50:41,230 --> 00:50:44,600
about sex, you know, just wants 
to lay back there. 

842
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,280
Do you know this artist? 
Bright light, Bright light. 

843
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,480
Yes, I've interviewed him for 
this podcast. 

844
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,240
So I just noticed him online. 
It really liked his music and 

845
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:55,280
his vibe, and I asked him to do 
a remix. 

846
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,520
So that's coming out, this remix
of Pillow Queen. 

847
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,920
He did a great job. 
It's going to be a great summer.

848
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:04,240
Just really, really grew. 
That's so great. 

849
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:07,240
He's such a wonderful artist and
person. 

850
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:08,720
I'm sure he would have been 
thrilled to have the 

851
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:11,320
opportunity. 
You've mentioned your wife 

852
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,920
Monica a few Times Now, and you 
met her in the early 2000s. 

853
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,680
You married in Hawaii in 2015, I
believe. 

854
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,000
Sia was your wedding singer, no 
less. 

855
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:23,680
Yes, and she sang Crush me with 
your love. 

856
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,800
A lot of people discover their 
queerness through a person. 

857
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,200
It's not necessarily an 
identity. 

858
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,920
It doesn't have to be at all. 
And I'm getting the sense that 

859
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,120
that might have resonated with 
your relationship with Monica. 

860
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:54,440
But I wonder if in the years 
since, how your queerness might 

861
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:58,800
have shaped your outlook in the 
world or indeed your own music. 

862
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,640
Do you feel an identification 
with queerness or? 

863
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,560
You mentioned in the band you 
always tapped into that queer 

864
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,040
sensibility, But yeah, I wonder 
what your relationship with that

865
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:10,080
is now. 
Well. 

866
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,400
I don't. 
It's interesting because I've 

867
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:16,600
met a lot of women who were with
men and then they discover that 

868
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,960
they really should be with a 
woman, or maybe at least at 

869
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,600
this, I don't know. 
It was just, it wasn't like a 

870
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,120
big epiphany, like oh God, now 
I'm with a woman. 

871
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,880
It just seems so natural when I 
met Monica and I met her through

872
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:37,720
mutual friends and I had my eye 
on her and I had been in this 

873
00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:41,680
really bad relationship with 
this guy who was just really 

874
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,240
emotionally abusive. 
And I have a song about that 

875
00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:55,200
called Higher Place, and it's 
about women's power, but it's 

876
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,560
also about the sort of feeling 
of being, oh, it's just, it was 

877
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,720
just so awful. 
And when I met Monica and I had 

878
00:53:03,720 --> 00:53:07,560
gotten out of that relationship,
she really made me so empowered.

879
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:12,600
And so we've been together 20 
years now and safe and seen. 

880
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:19,120
And it just makes so much sense 
that this just love that just 

881
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,800
blossomed. 
It's just still continuing. 

882
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,280
It's just really, really 
wonderful. 

883
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,960
But the but the queer 
sensibility, it's interesting 

884
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,280
because I don't ever I did never
felt like I made this major 

885
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,600
shift because I always felt 
queer. 

886
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,960
I don't know whether I was with 
men or whatever, you know, and 

887
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,000
one long term relationship I had
was with a man who was bisexual.

888
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,840
So, so you know, I've always 
been here, queer, like you said.

889
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:50,440
Yes, you've always been there. 
I'm talking to one right now. 

890
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,480
But what does a queer icon mean 
to you? 

891
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:55,880
How do you define a queer icon? 
Do you? 

892
00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:58,960
Remember that song, Sing if 
you're happy that way. 

893
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:03,080
Hey, who did that song? 
I mean, now I think back on 

894
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:04,600
that. 
And that was just so amazing. 

895
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,200
That came out like long, long 
time ago. 

896
00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:11,400
And I think just to your point 
of asking, like, do I feel, you 

897
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:13,360
know, what do I feel about being
a queer artist? 

898
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,640
It's just it's so fluid now. 
Well, of course, with this new 

899
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,920
administration, things are just 
insanely backsliding. 

900
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,160
But up until now, it's felt 
like, oh, everything is just 

901
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,160
sort of like it's easy now. 
It's it's just you don't have to

902
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,000
make any declaration. 
People are fluid. 

903
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:33,520
Young people are really 
accepting. 

904
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,160
All these young people are like,
oh, So what, you know, just the 

905
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,760
older people are catching on. 
And it didn't seem like there 

906
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,840
was fear anymore of hiding. 
I mean, it wasn't long ago 

907
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:47,240
before it was illegal and gay 
men were just really, really in 

908
00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:50,080
danger. 
And I mean, I mean, women could 

909
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:54,200
sort of get by a little more, 
but just out lesbians and and 

910
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:58,280
just gay men, queer men, we had 
just, it was dangerous. 

911
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,880
And it's just, it's so 
liberating. 

912
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:05,520
And now to see some things just 
trans people being targeted, 

913
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,400
it's just awful. 
The mean spirited and so 

914
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,440
terrible. 
I just feel so bad. 

915
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,880
I mean, they're rolling back 
women's rights and we talked 

916
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:18,320
about that for so long, but just
the attack on trans people is 

917
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:23,160
just so sad and so mean. 
And it's almost like a 

918
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,600
redirection. 
People are consciously 

919
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,000
redirecting attention from the 
big problems, the real enemies 

920
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,280
at play, which are probably 
billionaires ruining the planet,

921
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:38,840
and they're blaming it on trans 
people as just this easy target,

922
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,200
the scapegoat, which is 
something that queer people have

923
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,560
always faced. 
And a vulnerable, you know, 

924
00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:48,120
vulnerable people and drag 
Queens, But so you attack on 

925
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,560
drag Queens. 
It's like, Oh my God, you know, 

926
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,160
I've always loved drag Queens. 
I've always had a relationship 

927
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:59,400
with drag Queens, whether it was
RuPaul or Lady Bunny, just love,

928
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,840
I love me a drag queen. 
But that's what we're dealing 

929
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,240
with now. 
So we just have to forge on 

930
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:08,080
with, with hope and, and take 
action whenever we can. 

931
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,400
And I think it's some of these 
songs like radios and rainbows. 

932
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,680
I've tried to and, and dream on.
I have a song that's just now, 

933
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,360
you know, people have the power,
now's the time to use it. 

934
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,680
And I just got inspired by Patti
Smith's song. 

935
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,200
Of course people have the power.
But you know, it's just it's a 

936
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,800
time when we have to use our 
voices. 

937
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:33,240
And what we do best in music is 
to sing so and use music to and 

938
00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:36,000
I'm going to protest, go back to
my protesting. 

939
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,880
Yeah, complete full circle. 
Would you say that your 

940
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:44,040
creativity is unlocked now that 
your second album is out? 

941
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,400
Can we see more music from you? 
Oh, I'm going through some kind 

942
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:54,360
of crazy creative thing where 
I'm writing a Christmas album 

943
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,360
and I'm writing a sort of, well,
I thought it was going to be a 

944
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,400
country album, but it's very 
alternative country. 

945
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,640
And then I have some dance songs
too. 

946
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:07,280
So I'm not sure how I'm going to
put this all together, but I've 

947
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,320
been just coming up with all 
these, oh, I just popped into my

948
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:15,640
head, you know, a new song. 
And that's never happened to me 

949
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:20,840
before in this way where without
somebody collaborating or some 

950
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:24,920
inspiration, it's just like, oh,
this is like sparkling in my 

951
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,200
head and flesh it out. 
And I've written a bunch of 

952
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,880
songs. 
So how I'm going to combine a 

953
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,960
country Christmas dance album? 
I reckon if anyone can do it, 

954
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,880
it's you. 
Kate Pearson, you are queer and 

955
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,280
thank you very much for your 
tracks. 

956
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,760
Thank you so much. 
I really enjoyed talking to you.

957
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,320
Thank you for your thoughtful 
and incisive question. 

958
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:57,640
My pleasure. 
All right, you can find links to

959
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,680
Kate's solo work, including 
radios and rainbows, in the show

960
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,120
notes. 
Kate continues to perform with 

961
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,760
the B50 Twos throughout 2024, 
and my current pick from their 

962
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,440
back catalogue is a live 
recording of a 1989 concert on 

963
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:14,040
their Cosmic Thing tour. 
You can find it on the album's 

964
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,600
30th anniversary edition, which 
is on streaming. 

965
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:19,240
And you need to head straight to
Give Me Back, My Man. 

966
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,200
The Tracks of Our Queers is 
presented and produced by me. 

967
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,600
Andy got entirely on Unsuited, 
Gadigal and The Gariga Land here

968
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,800
in Australia and I'd love to 
hear your thoughts, whether it's

969
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:32,160
your favourite B52's deep cut, 
your newest queer musical 

970
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:36,520
discovery or just a gay ramble. 
You can e-mail me at any time at

971
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,880
tracksofourqueers@gmail.com. 
See you next time. 

972
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:09,160
None.