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A vacation can be amazing, but 
if it is the only time that you 

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feel like you can breathe, 
something is off. 

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And so today in the All In 
podcast, we're going to talk 

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about how to build a life that 
you do not need to escape from, 

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why burnout keeps returning even
after time off, and what 

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actually makes everyday life 
sustainable. 

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This is the All In podcast. 
You're going to want to tune in.

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Listen for this whole thing. 
All right boys, all of us love a

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little vacation time, but I 
think you ever had the 

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experience where you come back 
from vacation and you still feel

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a little bit exhausted. 
Like when you when you feel like

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you need a vacation from your 
vacation. 

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You come back from your 
vacation? 

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I feel like I still need two 
more days off before I go back 

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to work. 
Growing up, my, my family was 

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big on like vacations were just 
like jam packed. 

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And so like we would go on a 
trip. 

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Well, yeah, there weren't 
vacations, there were trips. 

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My family didn't go on vacation 
and go on trips. 

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And you come back and you're 
more exhausted than before you 

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left. 
Is that what you're talking? 

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About that's exactly. 
Acapulco. 

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Acapulco. 
Acapulco the beach. 

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Yeah, yeah. 
What was the last vacation you 

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went on, John Michael? 
Last vacation I went on was to 

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what is known as the Vatican 
City of Mexico. 

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Cancun. 
Yeah, we, we went together with 

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our, well, not just me and you, 
just to clarify, we went with 

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our wives and you happen to be 
there as well. 

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And then we went with our good 
friend Doctor Alec and and his 

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spouse Claire. 
And we had, we had a ball. 

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It was, we've been looking 
forward to that for a couple 

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years. 
And you know, that was a 

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vacation that I feel like we did
the right way because I, I left 

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that trip and I was excited to 
get home. 

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Not because I was tired of 
laying out at the beach and 

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having a Margarita and spending 
time with good friends over 

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wonderful food and having 
wonderful conversation in a, in 

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an awesome resort. 
But more of just because I felt 

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like that vacation was meant for
us to have great conversations 

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about how we can be better 
parents, how we can have better 

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marriages. 
It felt like a, a marriage 

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retreat, except there was the 
retreat was just being together.

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And so when we got back, I was 
so excited to see my kids like 

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we were, we were on the plane, 
like looking at videos of the 

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kids like, Oh my gosh, I can't 
wait to get home. 

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I can't wait to get home. 
Is this the same trip that 

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Clayton's heart rate shot up 
while playing pickleball to Zone

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5? 
That was golf. 

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The golf is a zone 2 square. 
And then you, you, you. 

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You had holiday hearts. 
I think it's so funny. 

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It's exactly. 
It's exactly. 

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I just think it's funny that it 
that's like a diagnosable 

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condition. 
That's what I think is funny, 

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that it's a diagnosable thing in
that it happened at Cancun and 

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not like over like it makes 
sense over Christmas or 

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Thanksgiving. 
I. 

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Mean it was a holiday. 
Yeah, it was Cancun in November.

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It's a holiday. 
It's always a holiday in Cancun.

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So what do you think so that you
know, this, this vacation for 

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us, I would agree with you, 
right? 

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We, we can't, we were doing the 
same thing. 

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I mean, we're looking at 
pictures of our kids on day 

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three of this thing, you know, 
just, you know, there, there is,

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you know, a part of us that was 
longing to be back with them and

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a part of us that still wanted 
to be on the beach in Cancun for

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sure. 
But we also have experienced 

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coming back from vacations and 
we're exhausted. 

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So Jamaica, I'd like to go back 
to you here and just kind of ask

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what was it about that vacation 
that felt restorative versus 

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perhaps other vacations that 
you've been on? 

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I mean, on a human level, I 
slept like 8 or 9 hours every 

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single night, which is the first
time I've done that four or five

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nights in a row and probably 
since this was before I started 

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having kids. 
What's so funny though is after 

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having kids, like I can't sleep 
through the night anymore. 

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Like even there when you know, 
it's we're in a giant king bed. 

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We had a great time the day 
before. 

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Like I should just be so rested 
that I can sleep through the 

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night. 
I woke up like two or three 

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times a night and it's always 
right around when the kids wake 

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up, like 2:00 AM and 4:00 AM, 
six AM couldn't sleep past 7. 

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So I think part of it was just 
like we rested. 

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We we didn't do a ton. 
We enjoyed good food, good 

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drinks, played some pickleball, 
which was a blast. 

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But I think on a higher level, 
having time outside of the 

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day-to-day monotony of the life 
of work and fatherhood and 

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husbandry, if that's a topic, if
that's a word, husbandry. 

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It is a word, but not. 
With husbandry meant gardening. 

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I think it's to do with what 
does that have to do with 

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horses? 
Jamie, can you? 

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Jamie, Jamie, pull that. 
So I think my my husband Drew 

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was reinvigorated. 
Careful management, cultivation 

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of crops and livestock. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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See. 
Gardening and of course it's, 

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but I think there's a, there's a
term in the for profit world 

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that talks about time working on
the business versus working in 

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the business. 
Working in the business is time 

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where you're, you're in the day 
and day operations of just how 

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do we move things forward. 
Working on the business is 

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taking a step back to evaluate 
just how how you're doing. 

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And so for us on that trip, it 
felt like, like I said, a 

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marital retreat where we were 
not working in the family the 

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day-to-day of of groceries and 
diapers and and school and 

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commutes, but working on the 
family from far away. 

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And I think the value of a trip 
like that is you get to take a 

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step back. 
And when you take a step back, 

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you see things more clearly 
because you're not in it, but 

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you're looking on it from the 
outside. 

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So I think those factors are 
just just played an awesome 

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role. 
Yeah. 

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What about you, Jose? 
Have you had an experience like 

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that in recent years? 
Yeah. 

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Or maybe the opposite. 
No, obviously recently, no. 

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You had a baby moon, right? 
Yeah, we, we, I like to my wife 

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and I, I like to make fun of her
'cause she would always she used

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to say you never take me on 
vacation. 

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We've been married for a year 
and we went on a honeymoon and 

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on 2 trips. 
I'm like, what are you talking? 

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About 3 trips in the 1st. 
Year of marriage and she like 

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you never taking me on vacation.
Like you're out of control. 

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But actually all three of them 
for very different reasons were 

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amazing. 
We, our honeymoon went to Italy,

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which I was actually really 
terrified because I thought I 

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wanted to go to the beach and 
like just lay on the beach in 

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Cancun. 
I'm. 

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Going to be honest, I was 
surprised that you went to Italy

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for your honeymoon. 
Yeah, just didn't. 

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Strike me. 
You didn't strike me as an Italy

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guy. 
I, I didn't want to come back 

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tired, but I, I think we, my 
wife and I talked about our 

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expectations beforehand. 
We actually did a really good 

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job and then later we we went to
a friend's lake house, so I 

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don't know if that was a 
vacation, but we were there for 

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like 3 days. 
That was also really Restful. 

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Just y'all or it? 
Was us another couple? 

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It was it was us and three other
couples so great, which was a 

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lot of fun. 
And then later, I don't want 

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people to think that we just 
travel a lot for fun, right? 

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All of these, there were some we
pulled some strings together, 

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but other one we had a friend 
that got married in Charleston. 

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Fun. 
And Mimi and I met in South 

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Carolina. 
We had some connections in South

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Carolina and so an old friend 
that we knew let us borrow a 

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little house that they that they
own. 

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All three of them were very 
different. 

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What was Italy doing things? 
One was a lake house with 

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friends and another one was just
my wife and I doing nothing in 

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Charleston. 
But all of them were super 

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restful. 
And I think, you know, I, I'm 

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not, I read a lot of books, but 
I don't like business books, 

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right. 
So I don't think the same way 

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that you do working on the 
family versus in the family. 

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Yeah, I think for us, it's just 
connecting like that's what's 

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Restful. 
It's just can we connect? 

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That's it. 
That's. 

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You know. 
In Italy, we were able to 

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connect, we were able to do 
things, we were able to laugh. 

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We did things with the Vatican, 
with the museums. 

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We also went to a spa in 
Florence that was like super 

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sketchy that we found on like 
you. 

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Know. 
But it was great. 

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And then, you know, same in 
Charleston. 

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We like went to the beach one 
day and got rained on. 

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It was, we were able to laugh 
and like have a lot of fun. 

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We went to like all of our 
favorite restaurants from when 

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we both lived in South Carolina.
So it was just like again, we 

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were just connecting with each 
other. 

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Y'all met the Pope, right? 
We did Pope Francis. 

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Yeah. 
How was that? 

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It was interesting because. 
You have to wear. 

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You have to wear. 
Your tux and. 

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Wedding dress. 
They just changed that. 

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I don't know when they an. 
American Pope, baby, let's go. 

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But whenever we went, it was 
Pope Francis and you just had to

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be wearing a suit and a white 
dress and didn't have to be 

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specifically. 
And what we ended up not doing 

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that a, because I, I rented my 
wedding tux and then I didn't 

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want to pay for a whole other 
bag for my, for his wedding 

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dress. 
So I just wore like a normal 

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suit that I packed. 
And then when we were there, we 

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went to, I think Zara and just 
bought her like a white little 

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jacket and skirt. 
What do you do? 

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Do you just you wait in line and
you come shake your hand. 

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That's it. 
Yeah, pretty much the whole 

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thing is like you have to get 
tickets and it's kind of like a 

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lottery and you win it. 
And then you go pick up the 

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tickets. 
And then you show up day off 

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first Wednesday, Wednesday, 
Wednesday audience. 

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You show up in the morning and 
the Swiss Guards will like keep 

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an eye out for people in like 
wedding dresses, right? 

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And they'll they'll pull you out
like, hey, are you here for the 

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thing, for the blessing for the 
newlyweds? 

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You're like, yeah. 
So then they take you like kind 

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of around all these people. 
And then you end up being like 

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at the front, like at the steps 
of Saint Peter, and you sit on 

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one side and you sit down. 
They just kind of like keep 

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sitting people down so. 
You get chairs now. 

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Yeah, you do get chairs, which 
is nice. 

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That's helpful. 
And then you just sit for the 

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next hour and a half or two 
hours, and then the Pope will 

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say something. 
And then it I, I think our 

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experience was maybe a little 
different. 

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Like we just had some friends 
that just went last month. 

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And that was very different with
Pope Leo that speaks English 

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because we had Pope Francis. 
So it was the audience. 

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And then afterwards, Pope 
Francis at this point was very 

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ill. 
And so, you know, he's in his 

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wheelchair and he came to, like,
meet us. 

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You know, I shook his hand. 
And, you know, I tried to say 

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something in Spanish because I 
he speaks Spanish, Martina. 

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But it was it. 
There was just like, not much 

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conversation happening. 
You don't. 

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You don't. 
Know if he heard you, you just 

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kind of. 
And I was like, well, I, I, I 

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shook his hand. 
Did did you think about what you

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were going to say beforehand? 
For sure. 

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What do you what do you try to 
say? 

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I, I think I was super in my 
head of like, should I do 

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English or Spanish, right? 
But it's just like you're 

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thinking. 
You're thinking, and then he's 

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right in front of you. 
And then I love you, I'm going 

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to say. 
Hey, how are you? 

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Hey, you like me? 
You missed a great opportunity 

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00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,880
to give him an all in koozie. 
What are the secrets? 

226
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:20,800
The third secret. 
Is. 

227
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,080
It real. 
Do you guys have like your own 

228
00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,600
book of secrets, like Nicolas 
Cage? 

229
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,320
That's great. 
You you overthink it, but when 

230
00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,040
you I don't even know what I 
said, it's like kind of when you

231
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,960
propose for sure, you know, you 
think about it for so long. 

232
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,520
It's. 
Days you have it nailed and do 

233
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:40,400
you guys? 
Remember what you said. 

234
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:41,760
I don't remember what I said 
when I proposed. 

235
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,040
I don't. 
I I do, but you do. 

236
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:46,960
Yeah, I do. 
I I had it. 

237
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,800
I kept it short. 
But anyways, yeah, it's, it's 

238
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,000
not a weird experience by any 
means. 

239
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,480
It's just kind of like surreal 
because it happens, you wait for

240
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,200
so long and then it happens so 
quickly, you know, and there's 

241
00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,920
someone that takes pictures for 
everyone. 

242
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,920
I can't wait to get around, man.
We're going. 

243
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,080
We're going for a 10 year 
wedding anniversary. 

244
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,080
Oh really? 
That's great. 

245
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:08,280
And. 
In three years from now? 

246
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:13,080
Yep. 
I'm a planner man 2029 is going 

247
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,520
to be a great year. 
That'll be great, yes. 

248
00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,760
Can't wait three years away. 
Countdown the days. 

249
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,920
Yeah, we had a great time 
because at the audience we sat 

250
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:26,720
next to Marco and Julie. 
Marco's from Milan. 

251
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:36,640
Milan in Spanish, it's Milan, 
Milan, Milan and Julie is from 

252
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,960
Paris and. 
Beautiful because sound like 

253
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,400
they're very. 
They're the most attractive 

254
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,160
couple we've ever met. 
They're definitely not 

255
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,280
listeners. 
They're too cool. 

256
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:49,080
We. 
Do have that one listener in 

257
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,320
Kenya? 
Yeah, shout out. 

258
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,120
Shout out Kenya. 
Huge in Kenya. 

259
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,240
But yeah, they were just 
amazing. 

260
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,160
And they now both live in Rome. 
They obviously not married 

261
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,600
because they were sitting next 
to us, but they gave us like all

262
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,000
these recommendations of like 
places to go and things to. 

263
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,160
Do that's really cool. 
That's like locals and 

264
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:08,240
attractive, cool locals too, you
know? 

265
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,240
I know the spots. 
Yeah, I know the spots. 

266
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,800
So, so we've, I, I think we've 
identified that what makes a 

267
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,160
vacation Restful is that there's
an opportunity for connection. 

268
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:21,240
And all of us, I think shared 
stories, you know, about going 

269
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,800
on vacations with our spouses, 
connection with our spouse. 

270
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,720
And then, you know, there's 
friends involved in a lot of 

271
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,520
these, you know, different 
stories. 

272
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,280
And so connections with friends 
as well. 

273
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,480
Do you think you would describe 
a vacation that's not restful as

274
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,160
a vacation where there's a lack 
of connection and that's what 

275
00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:41,920
makes it unrestful? 
I think the vacations that I 

276
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:46,280
look back on that weren't 
restful, we're frankly either 

277
00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:51,240
one of two things and sometimes 
both at the same time. 1 is 

278
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,000
being around with people, being 
around people that aren't 

279
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,840
restful for you. 
It's like I've taken some trips 

280
00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:01,440
with, you know, certain groups 
of people in my life where it 

281
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,600
feels like work to be around 
them and you're on vacation and 

282
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,640
you're trying to relax, but the 
whole time you're thinking about

283
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,800
how to engage that person in 
conversation. 

284
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,560
And it's just not, it's not a 
space where you feel like you 

285
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,080
can just kind of breathe a 
little bit. 

286
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,400
The second thing, which if you 
combine these things make for a 

287
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,840
rough vacation, is just a jam 
packed schedule of activities. 

288
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,680
And, and for some people, maybe 
that's their idea of a great 

289
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,640
vacation. 
But for me, I like to have a 

290
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,280
couple things we're going to do,
But my life is so regimented in 

291
00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,760
real life that to go on a 
vacation and to be like, hey, at

292
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:38,880
8, we're doing this. 
At 9:30, we're doing this. 

293
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,720
At 11, we're doing this at 1:00 
PM we're doing this that feels 

294
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,960
like real life, but just on a 
vacation. 

295
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,920
So like when we were in Cancun, 
we had no plans. 

296
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,840
And it was wonderful coming from
a life where, you know, my every

297
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,040
30 minutes seems to be 
calculated and scheduled into my

298
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,920
outlook to go where it's like 
the only thing to do today is 

299
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,560
eat 3 meals outside of that, 
that's all. 

300
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,040
And I think when you have an 
overly packed schedule with 

301
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,080
people that you find somewhat 
difficult to be around is a 

302
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,080
recipe for a vacation where you 
feel like you need a sabbatical 

303
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,640
when you get home. 
It's a great point. 

304
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,720
I think one of the things that 
we, you know, talked about with 

305
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,680
our friend Alec when we're come 
back from Cancun was just that, 

306
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,120
you know, if I could go to 
Cancun every year of, of my life

307
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,440
for the rest of my life, I think
I think that I would. 

308
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,560
That's probably not going to be,
you know, an opportunity that we

309
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,760
have on a, on a yearly basis. 
This is, you know, a big, a big 

310
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,160
trip for, for all of us. 
But what we ended up talking 

311
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,840
about was, you know, at this 
stage in my life right now 

312
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,560
where, you know, I've, I've got 
three boys, you know, 55 and 

313
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,000
under, Honestly, the last thing 
that I want to do is plan a 

314
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,200
pilgrimage to go to Europe. 
Now, you know, going for your 10

315
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,480
year anniversary, that's, that's
going to be, that's a milestone 

316
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,160
where you're doing something 
really, really special. 

317
00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,240
But, you know, for the most 
part, on an annual basis, even 

318
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,040
if it's just honestly, I would 
want more than the weekend if I 

319
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,360
could do, you know, 3 or 4 full 
days, that would be amazing. 

320
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:12,640
But an opportunity just to step 
away, you know, with my wife and

321
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,040
perhaps, you know, another 
couple or two and just be quiet 

322
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,280
and wrestle. 
That's what I want in my life 

323
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,400
right now when it comes to when 
it comes to a a vacation. 

324
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,320
I think for me, when I step 
away, I need a longer period of 

325
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,040
time. 
It's like 4 or five days, kind 

326
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,040
of like the perfect space 
because it takes me till day 2 

327
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,080
in the afternoon of the trip to 
really enter in. 

328
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,440
Day one is like kind of the 
halfway house between a vacation

329
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,400
in real life and day 2. 
You're starting to come out of 

330
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,440
the fog of the hustle. 
And then by the afternoon of day

331
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:47,440
2, you're like, all right, I'm 
here. 

332
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,440
But if you have a three day 
trip, which sometimes that's all

333
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,440
you can do with kids, But when 
you have a three day trip, by 

334
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,040
the time you're entered in, 
you're already packing up the 

335
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,160
Airbnb to go home. 
So having a trip long enough to 

336
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:04,200
where you can relax and and 
decompress and still have most 

337
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,359
of the trip ahead of you, it's 
like the perfect schedule. 

338
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,680
Yeah, that was a take away from 
that trip for us was for my wife

339
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,079
and I, we need to schedule 
something like this on an 

340
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,760
annual, on an annual basis. 
You know, it doesn't have to be 

341
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:19,000
going to Cancun, but we got to 
be able to step away for a 

342
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,079
number of days where we can, you
know, decompress and just and 

343
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:24,880
just be with one another. 
And I think scheduling vacations

344
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,200
like that on an annual basis, if
that's something that's possible

345
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,080
for you, it might not be 
possible for everyone, you know,

346
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,760
to do a trip like that to 
Cancun. 

347
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,720
But even if it's just just 
stepping out of your normal 

348
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,600
everyday routine for a couple of
days to get away and create some

349
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,840
space, I think it's something 
that is really healthy for, you 

350
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:47,720
know, a rhythm of life, you 
know, and so we've got our, our 

351
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,240
daily rhythms of life. 
We have our weekly rhythms of 

352
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,080
life, monthly, quarterly. 
And then in part of our annual 

353
00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,560
rhythm of life is, you know, I 
want to be able to step away for

354
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,960
a couple days and, and be with 
my, and be with my wife. 

355
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,600
And so there's, you know, 
there's an idea of, you know, I,

356
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,200
I don't want to have a life that
I feel like I need to have a 

357
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,600
vacation from. 
Like, Oh my gosh, I just need to

358
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,640
get away, like, blah, blah. 
I want it to be not something, 

359
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,840
not a vacation where I'm 
escaping from my life, but a 

360
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,400
vacation that's, you know, not 
just about, you know, sharpening

361
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,000
the saw so that I can enter back
in, but just a part of my life. 

362
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,800
And So what do you think, you 
know, that those vacations have 

363
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,000
been so restorative for us, But 
when it comes to building a life

364
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,200
that you don't quote UN quote 
need a vacation from what is 

365
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:36,520
that? 
That's that's a question. 

366
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,440
I think that's come up. 
I've actually seen it on some 

367
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,120
like like YouTube short videos. 
You know, I think it's like AI 

368
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:45,680
don't know. 
When I was prepping for this, I 

369
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,280
I saw it online. 
There's like all these little 

370
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,720
YouTube shorts of like building 
a life you don't need a vacation

371
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,360
from. 
What does that mean? 

372
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:56,560
What does that look? 
Like I think it looks like 

373
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,680
creating repeatable rhythms in 
your day-to-day life that allow 

374
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,960
for you to have these little 
mini vacations in the midst of a

375
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,800
day, in the midst of a week. 
So what I mean by that 

376
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,400
practically is when we were on 
that trip in Cancun, we, my wife

377
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,040
and I looked back at just kind 
of our rhythms of life now that 

378
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,920
we were, you know, stepped away 
from them. 

379
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,040
And we were recognizing that we 
were really looking forward to 

380
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,560
this vacation, like a lot like 
maybe even more than we should 

381
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,480
have. 
And we were, we were living that

382
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,440
way because it felt like our 
life at home was unmanageable in

383
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,840
its schedule. 
And the thing that we identified

384
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:38,600
is particularly our evening 
commitments. 

385
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,680
So there was weeks where we had 
an evening commitment every 

386
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,600
single night. 
So it would be like Monday 

387
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,960
night, I had a dad's group, 
Tuesday night, I let a Bible 

388
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,720
study, Wednesday night, Emily 
went to a mom's group, Thursday 

389
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,400
night, I went to something, you 
know, for spiritual formation. 

390
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,760
And then Friday night we had we 
had maybe a couple or a family 

391
00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,120
over and it just felt, it felt 
exhausting. 

392
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,000
Because you go to work, you come
home, then you have to leave, 

393
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,280
throw the kids in bed real quick
and then go to the next 

394
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,080
commitment. 
And so one of our takeaways was 

395
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,240
we need to pare down our evening
commitments, still be generous 

396
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,640
hopefully and investing in those
around us. 

397
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,320
But we need probably 2 nights a 
week at least Monday through 

398
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,800
Thursday that we have just for 
us. 

399
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,680
And I think repeatability as the
family continues to grow and 

400
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,280
kids have more activities in the
evening and stay up later doing 

401
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,480
homework and things like that. 
I don't want to be gone four 

402
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,280
nights a week like those are 
times where I want to be 

403
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:41,520
available in home. 
So All in all, I think finding 

404
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,200
those those opportunities in the
week to be able to create 

405
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,840
repeatable rhythm so that you 
don't need a vacation every 

406
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:57,560
couple of months to recenter. 
You know, I think my, my life, 

407
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,360
it everyone's life is different 
at different stages, but in in 

408
00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:06,880
our current stage for my wife 
and I building a life that you 

409
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:13,400
don't need vacation from just 
looks like are we, if we are, 

410
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:20,560
how do I phrase this? 
If we are actually being present

411
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:26,080
to the things in front of us 
that that, then we won't need a 

412
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,600
vacation from them. 
And what I mean by that is like 

413
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,880
when I'm at work, I'm at work, 
but when I'm not at work, I'm 

414
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:32,480
not at work. 
When I'm hanging out with 

415
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:34,800
friends, I'm hanging out with 
friends, but when I'm hanging 

416
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,200
out with my wife, I'm hanging 
out with my wife and I'm not 

417
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,400
half working. 
I'm not half right texting. 

418
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,520
I'm not half this. 
Whenever I'm present to the 

419
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,680
things in front of me in the in 
it's right setting. 

420
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,080
I don't know how else to say 
that I'm kind of finding what 

421
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,360
I'm trying to say as I go along 
that that I think that's when I 

422
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,520
feel like fulfilled. 
And that's when I don't feel 

423
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,360
like I need to get away to like 
just rest. 

424
00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:03,440
But what if I actually just find
like if I find a way to make it 

425
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,360
restful for me to get off work 
and get my kid to stop crying 

426
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:10,800
and put him in the stroller and 
go and walk, you know, and then 

427
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:17,120
come coming back and like, like 
finding, choosing to find like 

428
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,400
something joyful about helping 
my wife cook. 

429
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,360
I hate cooking. 
My wife loves cooking, right? 

430
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:25,600
But and then like as I grow in 
that, and again, this is my 

431
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,480
stage of life might be a little 
more different because we don't 

432
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,440
have one kid. 
Like that's I think where we get

433
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,080
into a rhythm where we don't 
feel like we have to get a way 

434
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,800
to, to reset or to recenter 
because we're, we're entering 2 

435
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,040
things in front of us and in 
their proper setting. 

436
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,840
Well, and I think what you're 
identifying is like a vacation 

437
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,600
can't make up or reset for 
months and months and months of 

438
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,280
over commitment and misaligned 
priorities and a busyness. 

439
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,920
It it, it doesn't wash away 
those things. 

440
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,920
It actually just creates a space
where you feel like you have no 

441
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,600
commitments, but then you jump 
right back in and that vacation 

442
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,120
actually didn't change anything.
It was just a momentary breath 

443
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,360
to re enter back into a life 
that of chaos that that probably

444
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:14,920
isn't sustainable or healthy. 
It's. 

445
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,160
Almost like the vacation becomes
a mini retreat in a sense, a 

446
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,200
mini examination of how am I 
looking back over the past year 

447
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,960
and how how am I living my life 
and what do I need to change in 

448
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,680
order to to make it, you know? 
Better. 

449
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:31,120
That's the proper vacation, 
Absolutely. 

450
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,880
Because I think some of the 
things that you said, John 

451
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,560
Michael, it's none of the things
that you named were bad things 

452
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,960
like you named a dad's group, 
you named your Bible study, you 

453
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,400
named, you know, your, your 
wife's Bible study and, and 

454
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,240
mom's group you named, you know,
investing in friendships and 

455
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,800
investing in the, in the 
community. 

456
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,200
All of those things are 
objectively good things. 

457
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,960
It was just that you were doing 
them at a, at a pace and at a 

458
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,440
rhythm that, you know, we're 
exhausting you without even, you

459
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,560
know, without even realizing it.
And so being able to step away 

460
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,600
and identify those things in 
your life that you perhaps 

461
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,680
you've over committed to. 
I think that, you know, we need,

462
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,080
you know, we, I think we talked 
about this frequently on the 

463
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,440
podcast, but we need, we need 
rhythms, we need routines. 

464
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,800
We need morning routines and 
evening routines and weekend 

465
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,080
routines and Sunday routines. 
You know, we need, we need 

466
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,880
rhythms for our life so that 
there's some sort of 

467
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,000
predictability and 
sustainability to our life. 

468
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,160
But I think another part of 
routines as well is that you 

469
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,840
need to createspace for, for 
spontaneity as well, you know, 

470
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,120
because what we're not trying to
say is like, Hey, you like, 

471
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,400
you're right. 
Your life needs to, needs to be 

472
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,600
so, you know, regimented, you 
know, and, and disciplined that 

473
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,880
you always know what you're 
doing, You know, one week ahead 

474
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,680
of the time. 
There needs to be room for, you 

475
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,040
know, just a spur of the moment 
thing with the family, you know,

476
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,880
or a spur of the moment, you 
know, hey, we're going to, you 

477
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,400
know, we're, we're done with 
dinner a little bit early 

478
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,680
tonight. 
So we're going to watch 2 

479
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,920
episodes of Blue with the kids, 
you know, and snuggle him on the

480
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,480
couch and just have a good time 
instead of always prepping to 

481
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,720
run out the door for the next 
thing. 

482
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:08,960
I think that you too can find 
the the joy that you found in a 

483
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,000
vacation in the rhythms of your 
life. 

484
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,160
Like we've, you know, we've had 
a couple podcasts now where 

485
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,240
we've been kind of touching on 
like a similar thread of not 

486
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,240
fleeing from responsibility, but
entering in. 

487
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,880
And I think what's cool about 
this thread is it feels, it 

488
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,360
feels organic in that, you know,
a lot of these past episodes, 

489
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,920
you know, as they've been 
building on one another, last 

490
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,960
two or three have been threads 
that we're talking about on the 

491
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,360
podcast because they're threads 
we're discovering in our own 

492
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:40,600
self discovery of our lives. 
And so we're kind of speaking 

493
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,800
about these podcasts as a 
honestly a self reflection of 

494
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,360
our own experiences. 
I think those create the best 

495
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:50,000
conversations because we're not 
just talking about topics. 

496
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,280
We're talking about things that 
we are discovering today, a 

497
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,640
month ago, two months ago. 
And I know when I leave these 

498
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,560
podcasts, I get home and I'm 
like, I kind of like want to 

499
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,840
tell Emily about the things we 
talked about because I feel like

500
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,000
we need to apply these things in
a much better way than we have 

501
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:08,800
been because we just talked 
about it. 

502
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,040
Absolutely. 
So a question I have again, you 

503
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,480
know, we've, we've talked a lot 
about, you know, our, all of us 

504
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,480
are, are driven in different, 
different ways. 

505
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,960
I would say that each of us are,
you know, ambitious in our lives

506
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,200
about, you know, maybe about 
similar things, about different 

507
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,480
things. 
But I think we're all, you know,

508
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,080
driven people almost to the 
point that, you know, it can be,

509
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,560
it can be detrimental, you know,
to a point. 

510
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,200
And so, John Michael, when you 
were come back from that 

511
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,160
vacation and and you know, 
you're, you're someone that 

512
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,840
you're a community builder. 
You know, you, you love 

513
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,720
investing in in friendships. 
You know how you have these big 

514
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,320
goals, visions and dreams. 
And some of those are about your

515
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:48,400
family. 
Some of those are about work. 

516
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,360
Some of those are about, you 
know, the friendships that 

517
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:52,720
you're building. 
And all of those are really good

518
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,840
things. 
Making the decision to step back

519
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,760
from a few of those things and 
not chase, not not be building 

520
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,720
something in the evenings. 
And I'll be trying to not trying

521
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,360
to do something or accomplish 
something. 

522
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,840
This How do you is that not 
settling? 

523
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,360
Describe that to us like it, you
know, you're like, oh, there's 

524
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:12,160
all these good things and I'm 
not going to do them anymore 

525
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,640
because I need more me time. 
You know, how do you, how does 

526
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,440
it, how do you balance that? 
What's funny is I felt so much 

527
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,600
confidence on the trip that 
that's what I needed to do. 

528
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,840
And then I got back home and I 
was like, I don't really need to

529
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,280
take a step back. 
I'm, I'm good, I'm fine. 

530
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,720
But then I luckily I journaled 
about it. 

531
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,800
And I'm not, I'm not a big 
journaler, but I did take time 

532
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,960
to write that down on the trip 
because I knew that would 

533
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,240
happen. 
I knew I would get back and I'd 

534
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,560
be distracted by the commitments
and I needed to return to the 

535
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,800
place of confidence that I had 
and frankly, like a conviction 

536
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,920
that I had. 
And honestly, what I did is I, I

537
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,040
called up a couple good buddies 
here in Denver and I just shared

538
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,680
with them kind of the fruit of 
that experience, like, hey, I'm 

539
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,840
going to take a step back. 
Here's why I'm taking a step 

540
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,320
back. 
And I shared with him what I 

541
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,040
received, probably honestly a 
grace I felt like I received, 

542
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:10,280
which is that desire to do that.
And I was so scared that they 

543
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,160
would respond with like, are you
you backing out on us? 

544
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,920
Like we started this, we started
this together or we really love 

545
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,520
to have you here. 
And instead what happened was 

546
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,320
exactly the opposite where it 
was like, that's crazy. 

547
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,840
Like I've been feeling the same 
thing, but I just kind of put a 

548
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,160
finger on it. 
And now that you said that, I 

549
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,320
think I need to take a look at 
my life and see what we're over 

550
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,480
committed to. 
And it was really cool. 

551
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,200
And I think the the value of 
risking a friendship there was 

552
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,640
outweighed by the value of 
gaining more intimacy in the 

553
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,560
family. 
And you know what? 

554
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,560
I think the risk I took was if 
guys weren't OK with that, then 

555
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,480
those just probably aren't the 
type of man I want to surround 

556
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,160
myself around if they're not 
supportive of of those 

557
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,640
decisions. 
And I'm not making myself a 

558
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,600
hermit. 
But I'm just taking that 

559
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,520
opportunity to say, hey, for 
right now in this season as 

560
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:06,000
we're expecting the next baby, I
need to take a strategic step 

561
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,800
back here. 
And the value of saying no, you 

562
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,800
know, creates more and more 
opportunities to say yes to 

563
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:12,520
things that matter. 
I. 

564
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,440
Think that was very well said 
John Michael. 

565
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,560
What are yours monologues? 
It's about time I got a little I

566
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,040
got a little love from y'all 
with my monologues. 

567
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,400
It's been tough recently. 
I think ultimately what we're 

568
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,240
trying to do is we're trying to 
build a life that we're not 

569
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,320
trying to escape from. 
It's one we're we're we're 

570
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,200
strategically committed to the 
things in our life that are 

571
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,840
good, but not to the extent that
they become detrimental and 

572
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,480
prevent us from resting well and
taking a step back even in the 

573
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,280
ordinary rhythms of daily life 
outside of vacation time. 

574
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,160
And so if this made you think, 
man, maybe I need to slow down a

575
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,520
little bit, man, I need, maybe I
need to, to rethink what my 

576
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,360
daily, weekly, monthly, annual, 
you know, quarterly structure 

577
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,760
looks like. 
Share it with a friend, like 

578
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,160
subscribe, talk about it with 
your buddies. 

579
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,160
Do what John Michael did and go 
out on a limb and invite someone

580
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,080
else to to think about these 
things as well. 

581
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,880
This is the All in podcast. 
We're all in on vacations. 

582
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,360
We're all in on vacations that 
you don't try to escape from 

583
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:20,560
your life from. 
And we're all in living your 

584
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:20,800
life.