So I don't know about you, but many people have asked me, why
are you Catholic? And for most of the years in my
life, I didn't really have a good answer.
I would say, well, my family's Italian.
That's just kind of what we do. As I've grown up, I've got a
better answer, which is that Jesus Christ founded the
Catholic Church. And today what we want to talk
about is what's the difference between someone who just says,
oh, I'm Catholic because my family's Catholic, versus
someone who says I'm Catholic and it's the center of my life.
Don't go anywhere. You're going to want to hear
this. All right, gentlemen.
So let's get into some data. Let's see what big data has to
say about this topic. So there's been a ton of stuff
in the news right now about, you know, are people becoming more
Catholic or people becoming more Christian US population, What's
the survey data saying? And Pew Research, which is kind
of like the leading religious organization when it comes to
data. They just finished their study
in a 2025 S pretty recent data. And here's what they say that
nearly half of US adults claim a connection to the Catholic
faith. Kind of interesting.
And then they break it down, they say.
That could mean anything. Yeah, just a connection.
And they break it down. They say 20% of US adults
identify as Catholic. When asked what their religion
is, 9% of adults say that they are culturally Catholic, which
means they do not say that they are, that they identify with the
religion of the Catholic Church. But they say yes when asked
whether aside from religion, they consider themselves as
Catholic, for example, ethnically, culturally, or
because of their family background.
Wow. Not sure what those people are
thinking, but 9% and then 9% say that they're former Catholic.
So they identify as Catholic religiously previously, but no
longer, and the 9% said that they're connected to Catholicism
in other ways. I.
Know a guy? My cousin's friend's dog was
Catholic. They are not Catholic culturally
or formally, but they have a Catholic parent, spouse, or
partner and they say yes when asked if they have attended a
Catholic mass. So then you break it down.
You say OK. Of the people who identify as
Catholic, 20% say that they are religiously Catholic. 50% say
that they pray daily. That's cool.
But 28% say that they go to Mass weekly, and then 23% say that
they go to confession with the priest at least once a year.
Only 13% of American Catholics say that they do three of the
following things, pray daily, attend Mass weekly, and go to
confession at least once a year. So we gave a lot of numbers, but
let's just break it down really simply is that we have tons of
people that say I am Catholic or I have a Catholic friend.
But then of all those people who say that 13%.
So you have 10 people in a room who say they're Catholic, 1.3
point three of them. Maybe there's a super short guy
in the room says I do the bit the the absolute basics.
I pray daily. Maybe that's, you know, a
blessing before meal. I go to Mass weekly, and I go to
confession at least once a year. I don't know, frankly, what that
means, but I'm hoping that we can come to some conclusions
here together about the difference between those 13% and
the other 87% who say, yeah, I'm Catholic for sure.
But I actually don't do any of the things that the Catholic
faith would say are the basic tenets, the basic activities of
someone who's Catholic. Yeah, so when you say that, I, I
think growing up and I, and I've shared a little bit of my story
on, on, on the podcast. I grew up in Mexico, which is a
very culturally Catholic country.
And when I share my story, I say we didn't grow up in any sort of
faith, but the we, we actually did grow up Catholic.
It's just that what that meant was we would go to Mass maybe
once every three years, right. But back then I thought, that's
what, Oh, yeah, we're Catholic, you know?
But now looking back, I'm like we we were not practicing
anything. Pew Research actually did a
study on particularly just Hispanic Catholics in the US
really. And there is there's two data
points that are fascinating of Hispanic Catholics.
They said, do you regularly wear religious items, maybe a
necklace, maybe a bracelet? 56% said yes.
How many of them attended Mass weekly?
19%. Wow.
So I think that that speaks very much to what you're saying,
which is it's important enough for me to wear a necklace about
it, but it's not important enough for me to actually go and
celebrate the very thing that makes me Catholic, which is
Mass. And I see this a lot too.
And it, this isn't just limited to Louisiana, but Louisiana is
another place that where I live, it's very culturally Catholic.
Now I always struggle with this because I'll meet someone and
like, oh, like, I don't know how come up with it.
Like, Oh yeah, I'm Catholic. It's like, oh, that's great.
What do you, you know where we keep talking?
Like what do you live? He's like, oh, I live with my
girlfriend, You, you know, over here.
And it's like they, they start listening.
All these things. I'm like, well, those are like
pretty, I don't want to say pretty basic, but there's
definitely on the more basic side of things that the Catholic
Church has not to do. And it's like, how do I
reconcile that? Well, I think your your life
experience is really fascinating because I'm thinking about like
the four main places that you've lived.
So Mexico, obviously culturally Catholic, San Antonio, you
probably identify that as AUS city that would have a lot of
cultural Catholicism, Louisiana, as you said.
And then South Carolina, which is kind of the outlier probably
of those four places, did you see differences between the
faithfulness of people and the three versus the one?
Yes and no. I think that it was basic, yes.
South Carolina is kind of more in the Bible Belt, right?
So there's a lot less Catholicism.
And so when I was not on the university campus, it was rare
to meet someone else Catholic. And when they were Catholic,
they were actually Catholic, you know what I mean?
And, but I mean, what I mean by actually is that they, they
practiced a lot, if not most or most, if not all of the, of the
basic tenets of the Catholic faith.
So that that set up. But at the same time, when I was
on the university campus, it was a little different because I
think people are just, like, starting to kind of wrestle with
like, what is faith more than just what my parents have handed
down to me? And I think that's where I would
run into a lot of the same if I'm Catholic.
But I don't really know what that means.
I don't really know what that entails.
Just maybe because my parents told me or that's good what my
parents did, that that would be the biggest difference is
outside of the university campus, anyone that said they
were Catholic was probably very faithful to the to the tent of
the faith. Yeah.
But what's he also experiencing growing up in Dallas going
private school? I, you know, it's funny because
I, there's a part of cultural Catholicism that I think did a
lot of damage to my faith. And I'm, I'm putting that in
comparison with my wife who's a convert to the Catholic faith,
where for me, I knew all of the things growing up.
Like I actually look back at some of the things that I did as
a kid and I'm like, I had incredible Catholic formation.
Like I could have quoted you. I remember my freshman year at
Jesuit college prep, I was like the star student in the theology
class, but I didn't want to show that I was the star student
because it was kind of nerdy to be the, the theologian in an all
boys prep school. But my confirmation saying it
was Saint Ignatius. And like the first half of the
whole class was about the history of the Jesuits.
And I knew every single answer because I, I had researched St.
Ignatius and like, I started making fun of me and they were
like, oh, hey, you going to go where you going to be priest,
you know. And, and so it kind of, it
honestly kind of did some damage because pretty early on as you
start growing up and, and figuring out what's cool, what's
not, what was shown to me by the people I was around was if
you're faithful, you're, you're you're pretty weird.
Yeah. Like, I was the only guy in my
friend group that went to youth group at my church.
And I remember kind of hiding it from people to be like, oh, what
are you, what are you up to tonight?
Oh, you know, oh, yeah. Family commitment.
And I'd, I'd, I'd head over to youth group at the parish, which
I loved. Like, I, I thought the youth
minister was super cool. I, I related a lot to him.
He was athletic, you know, very vivacious, fun to be around.
But I was like afraid to tell people, even though all these
guys were Catholic. It was just like, oh, if you're,
if you're into your faith, like that's kind of a nerd.
So growing up going to Catholic school, was everyone Catholic?
For the most part. I made 8085 percent, 90 percent,
95%. Yeah, but, and I guess it was
high school. So, you know, when we're in high
school, we don't think through things a lot, but how many of
them were actually entering into the?
Not many. Yeah.
Very, very, very few. Yeah, not many good one guy I
remember enter the Jesuits right out of high school and I just
remember thinking that was. That was just crazy.
That was the. Weirdest thing I've ever seen,
you know, and then my family, we went to Mass every Sunday.
But again, it was just one of those things that you kind of
had to do. Here's something I'm, I'm
wondering though, because I'm, we use the term, I think when we
say culturally Catholic, what we mean by that is you're not
really Catholic. You know, it's kind of a it's a
funny phrase. Like it Catholicism is kind of
in the air, but you're, you're not, you know, super practicing,
you know, versus like you think of a country like Poland or
Maria von Trapp, you know, in Austria, you know, or you think
of our experience at, at Texas A&M and being a part of Saint
Mary's and the Catholic Center there, there was a culture that
was Catholic. And, and those types of
instances, it's like, yeah, the, the, the culture of Catholicism
at Saint Mary's at Texas A&M drew me in.
I wanted to be Catholic because it was a part of it wasn't just
it wasn't just me that had this desire for God.
It was the culture that did, you know.
And so I think it's just kind of interesting that when we
culturally Catholic means that the the culture is not really
Catholic. Totally right.
Well, it's funny because I think you're, you're identifying that
there's like a healthy culture, often times of, of Catholicism
and then a very unhealthy culture of Catholicism.
Like when we first started being involved in, you know, our, our
Catholic faith, frankly, it was because there was a lot of
people that we respected and looked up to and liked that were
Catholic and, and like actually practicing their faith.
I think about men who are older than us, like the missionaries
we worked with, or older men involved like Evan or guys like
that who just look to and you're like, that's a culture I want to
be a part of. You know.
So cultural Catholicism gets a bad rap, but there's also a
cultural Catholicism that creates a space where people are
actually attracted to it. And I'm wondering if we could
identify kind of the differences between the bad culture that
says I don't really want to be a part of that, and then a healthy
culture that is attractive, like a moth to a light for souls.
I think when we talked about maybe the, the bad side of, of
the culture, one thing that stands out to me is people that
aren't really committed and, and I used to get really bothered by
this when someone was like, yeah, I'm Catholic.
And then I'm like, nothing about your life tells me you're
Catholic because you're neither in or out.
And I'm like, just honestly, I, I would prefer if you tell me
you're not Catholic, right? And, and it would kind of, it
would just kind of anger me a little bit.
It would kind of grind my gears because I'm attracted to people
that are committed people that are like when they say they're
going to do something, they, they actually do it.
I find that attractive. And so when you, when, when I
would meet people, it's like, Oh, I'm Catholic, but you know,
half the stories that tell you I'm, I'm celebrating how, how
drunk I get on the weekends, you know, and, and I'm not saying
that, you know, if you're Catholic, you, you never get
drunk, right? We all fall sometimes.
But there's a difference between celebrating it and not.
And I think that's one of the things that that differs is like
there's a level of commitment and a level of actually taking
something serious. So would you say in response to
that, would you say that having no faith is better than having
cultural faith? I.
Don't know. And that's where I kind of get
lost because I, I don't know the answer to that.
But to me when someone tells me I'm Catholic, but you're not
living any of it, I'm like, you're almost just lying to
yourself. And in my own life, I, I think
where I've seen the most growth is when I'm able to admit where
I'm really at. And this is me just projecting
until the people, I don't know where people are actually at.
But a lot of times I'm like, well, are you saying that
because you don't want to admit that you've actually fallen so
far from what, you know, the Catholic faith to be, but you're
scared to face that? So that, that's where I, I kind
of get frustrated. Like, I'd rather you just tell
me you're not Catholic. So that we, like, I want you to
have a real understanding of where you're at.
So it'll be hot or cold. Yeah.
But I'm not, I'm not saying it's better than like, no faith is
better than a little faith. I, I don't know the answer to
that. I don't know if you guys have
thoughts on that. Well, I mean that the church has
spoken about a, a topic maybe surrounding your question, which
is that when you're evangelizing and our churches, you know, the,
the term, the new evangelization or the re evangelization has
become kind of a colloquial idea.
But what it really means is that you're evangelizing people that
have some sort of understanding of the faith.
The problem and the, the reason that we've kind of taken on this
term of the new evangelization is it's the, the church has
stated that it is somewhat harder to evangelize people who
think they know what the church is versus evangelizing people
that actually have no concept. They're kind of starting at a
neutral point versus we, we can all identify when you're trying
to work with someone that is not neutral to the faith, but
actually has a lot of preconceived notions about what
they think it is. You actually have to restructure
their idea of what the faith is first before you can even bring
them to the true faith, versus when you start with someone
who's neutral. Yeah, I'd actually don't know
anything. Like, please teach me.
You don't actually have to restructure any of their
mindsets. You can just teach the faith for
what it is instead of having to show them what you what you
think you believe the faith is, is actually the in inappropriate
understanding of what it truly is.
I think Archbishop Venerable. Is he Venerable Fulton Sheen or
Blessed? He's about to be.
I don't know, but but he would say, he would say, you know,
millions of people hate their idea of the Catholic Church, but
only a few who truly fall in love with it actually understand
the fullness of the faith. I think he said there.
I think he must go there a little bit.
Butchered it I. Think you said there are.
There are many. There are many people who hate
what they think the Catholic Church to be.
There are but a few that hate what the Catholic Church
actually is. Yeah, that makes a lot more
sense. That makes a lot more sense.
So I think would you rather have someone who's neutral, who you
don't have to reteach? Yes.
But would you rather have someone who has some basic
catechesis in them that you can then they have some kindling
there that you just have to light on fire to get them going?
Yes. Boom.
So what do we do with folks? And, and maybe we have some
listeners that would say I'm Catholic, but I don't do a ton
of the activities that a Catholic does.
And it's funny because if you use an analogy, it's it's kind
of hilarious. It's like I'm a football player.
Oh, when was the last time you played?
I haven't haven't played in a long time.
Do you know anything about football?
No, not really. Do you read books about
football? No.
Do you watch football? No, never.
But I'm a football player. Like in no way, shape or form
would that ever make sense to anyone.
But when it comes to Catholic, people do that all the time.
So how do we how do we win these people?
The I'm I'm thinking of a quote from Saint Pope Paul the 6th
all. Right, get this one because I I
butchered my last name. Said modern man listens more
modern man, modern man listens more willingly to witnesses than
he does teachers. And if they listen to teachers,
it is because they are first witnesses themselves, right.
And so, you know, you're talking John Michael of, of, of teaching
somebody the faith. But why would somebody be
interested in learning the faith?
Or if they feel like they know the faith already, why would
they be interested in in relearning it?
I think we have to ask the question, what are we witnessing
to other people? You know, what, what kind of
Catholic life are we witnessing? Are we witnessing?
We do. You don't do the activities, but
I do the activities. So let me, let me witness to you
all of my activity doing what is it that we're actually, you
know, when, when you see someone that is on fire and zealous for
the faith, there's something about them or you look at them
and they're like, they understand something that I that
I don't, or they live differently in a way that I, I
don't live. But I would say we're the same.
We're both Catholic. So why is your life so different
than mine? Why do you have something that I
don't? What do you guys think that that
witness entails? I think the the first word that
comes to mind is freedom. I think that's like a big piece
of it of like a lot of we, we hear this a lot, especially the
three of us worked on university campuses walking with people in
all aspects of life, right from culturally Catholic to not
Catholic to I've been authentically Catholic my whole
life. And he's a lot of like, well,
there was something attractive. And I, I think for me, at least
whenever I was one of those people that wasn't sure what it
meant to be Catholic and I saw other people, I talked about
commit commitment, right, being hot or cold.
Another thing that I that was very attractive.
And I don't know if this answering your question like
that witness to me was freedom. There was a freedom that I
didn't know where it came from, but I knew I wanted it.
You know, I, I think at least that's for me.
I don't know if you guys have a different answer.
Yeah, I think what what is attractive and and what I'm
thinking about is what attracted us to the Catholic faith.
Like who were the witnesses and why was I attracted to them?
I think freedom, absolutely. I think about for all of us, it
was those older men in our lives who we looked, who we looked at.
And I'm asking myself the question, what, what did they
witness to? To me, I'll tell you John, who
was a great witness to, to all three of us.
He was someone that had a, a big effect on our lives in college
and I think won me over to authentic Catholicism.
What attracted me to him was a few things. 1 He knew who he was
and he was integrated. And what I mean by integration
is that the way he, the things he spoke about, the things he
cared about, the things that he spent time doing, if you looked
at his schedule, yes, it was full of Catholic activities, but
it wasn't for the activity itself.
It was it was because he believed in what he believed,
that the church was the source of life for him, that he just
talked about the faith. And I'll never forget we, me and
Clayton went to Jamaica with him on a mission trip and we'd sit
down at dinner and most guys would sit at dinner and, and
they'd talk about football and they'd talk about, you know,
their girlfriends. And instead John would sit down
and, and he would start talking about the Eucharist.
And it was, it was such a mind blowing concept.
Who Mendo, who does that? No one even says that.
And he'd ask us questions. He'd be like, So what, how do
you, how is your reception of the Eucharist changing your
life? And we're sitting back going, it
doesn't, it depends how crunchy it is.
You know, I, I don't know. And, and there was something
about him that had a full confidence in who he was.
He also was not a man of duplicity.
He was pursuing a woman at the time that that we knew he was
really into. And you could just tell his
pursuit of her was something outside of what we had witnessed
in our life. It was dedicated, it was
intentional, it was faithful. It was fearless, frankly.
I mean, he just went after it. The first date they ever went
on, he showed up at her house with flowers because he just was
like, I know who I am. I know what I'm about.
And I'm just going to, I'm just going to put it out there for
you. And if you don't like it, that's
OK. So that is a witness that people
are attracted to. And I think in a world where
people are constantly logged on to podcast and YouTube videos,
they don't have authentic witnesses.
They have people with microphones.
They have an image of what people want you to see.
And, and our podcast is, is wonderful, but, but we want to
encourage people don't, don't be like us because you're listening
to us. Hold microphones.
Find people in your real life who showcased this authenticity
to you. Yeah, it was a great way of
putting out what I'm thinking too of like that you kind of put
towards what I'm thinking when I say freedom, right?
I think coming into college, when I saw that a lot of
misunderstandings of what it meant to be Catholic, Christian
or Christian, whatever it was I thought to be Catholic, it was
just like boring. You had to follow a lot of
rules. You couldn't have desires,
right? It was.
Just no adventure. You couldn't be yourself.
And that's what I mean by freedom, by authenticity.
It's like, oh, these guys are still themselves, You know, for
for me, John was big, but Evan was another big figure in my
life. I'm like, man, you also, you
still like to drink beer, but you are faithful and you pray
that that was crazy. You know, you like to go out and
you, you're still like, that's the freedom that I mean of, of
what you just sort of like, this is who I am.
And I'm very confident in that. And I don't have to change for
anyone else, you know, because this is how God made me.
That was like, whoa, that's crazy.
And, and especially coming to college, someone that cared so
much what other people thought of me, that was attractive.
A freedom from insecurities, a freedom from, again, not saying
that I don't, he might have had insecurities.
I still have my insecurities, but a freedom of like, this is
who I am and this is the authentic me.
And I, I, I'm not just some boring person that's following
rules. I'm myself as God created me to
be. And I still like football and I
can still talk about football at dinner.
You know, now it's not the only thing I talked about, but I
still can't. Those are the things that but
what's going on here? You know, we clean.
Remember my freshman year of college went to a, a men's
prayer meeting. So I'd never been to something
like that before in, in my entire life.
And I remember getting there and and and.
Were you nervous? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah. And I remember getting there and
I met all of these just awesome dudes and, you know, that I was
new to the, you know, come up and say hi and, you know, shake
my hand. They're smiling.
They're asking me questions and having a good time like.
These guys are so cool. You know, they're, they're,
they're tall, they're athletic, they're funny, you know, you
know, not all of them were were, you know, cool, athletic and
tan, you know, but they were all approachable, you know, in, in
different ways. And you know, after I guess chit
chatting, you know, for a little bit, we went into, you know, a
time of, of prayer together and then just one praise and praise
and worship song. And I remember, you know,
seeing, you know, about 100 and 5200 men go into, into prayer
and then, you know, close their eyes and, and, and, and, and
worship and worship God and, and give him praise.
And I remember thinking to myself, this is the first time
ever I, I ever thought this to myself my entire life was, oh,
like, maybe this is what I'm missing.
You know, maybe this is what I'm missing.
I'm, I'm around all of these men that have something that I
don't. I think what attracted to me,
attracted me to them the most was their was their authentic
joy that they had. It's beautiful.
I wonder if an element of our stories that that helped us get
out of cultural Catholicism was spending tons of time with non
Catholics. So in college, most of our
friends were not Catholic. Some, some were evangelical
Protestants, some were, you know, just trying to figure out
what they believed. And for me, that was a very new
experience, primarily in college because I went to a Catholic
elementary school, went to a Catholic prep school.
My whole family was Catholic. I remember meeting someone who
was Luther and I thought it was a salad dressing.
I'd never heard of it. I'll never forget.
We're, we're, we're at the beginning of college and some
guy comes to me. He's like, hey, where do you go
to church? It's like kind of a weird
question to lead with. What's your name?
Maybe is a better one. I said, oh, I, I, you know, I
don't really know, but I'm Catholic.
So they got Saint Mary's here. I said, where, where do you go
to church? He's like, I go to Grace Grace
Anderson. I said, who's she?
And so just being surrounded with people who who were not
Catholic, we started getting questions.
Well, OK, you're Catholic. What does that even mean?
I have no idea. I had no idea.
And so I think for for some of our listeners, spend time with
people who are not Catholic, spend ton don't just have a
bunch of friends who believe the same things as you, but get out
into arenas that you actually are able to distinguish what you
believe from people who do not believe the same thing.
And that tension, that requirement to be reflective and
and ask yourself, why do I believe this is something that
leads hopefully to deeper conviction?
I remember the first conversation, you know, a
conversation that I had when I was in college was with an
evangelical president. He told me that I was going to
go to hell for being Catholic. And I had, I had.
Now, obviously not every evangelical president believes
that, but that was the first time that I had ever heard.
That you're like, why haven't I heard this before?
I was. Like, So what was I raised in a
cult? What is this, you know, and I
didn't I didn't understand. I was like, what are you, what
do you mean? Like, why would you ever think
that, You know, And it forced me.
That was just a moment where it forced me to start asking myself
some questions of like, oh, well, other people think this
about what I believe, but I didn't, I wasn't able to give
them an answer in response to that.
So what do I actually believe and why do I actually believe
it? And I think what you're getting
at, John Michael, is like, what is it going to take for you to
have a sense of ownership and agency for your life?
You know, of just this is something that I do and I don't
really challenge myself in it. And nobody else really
challenges, challenges me, you know, And so I just kind of live
my life on, on, on cruise control, on autopilot.
What's what's beautiful about our Catholic faith is like, we
actually have that decision point built in to what we
believe. So when you run through the
sacraments, baptism, your parents choose it for you, Holy
Communion and confession. Typically you receive those
sacraments when you're younger and you do it because yes, you
might believe it, but when you're in 1st and 2nd grade,
it's hard to make a full decision of the will that I,
I'm, I'm all in on this thing. But then we have the sacrament
of confession. And so our, our faith actually
bakes in the decision point, right for us where the, the
sacrament of confirmation is supposed to be in its pure form,
the decision of the will that says, I actually believe this.
I'm making this faith, not the faith of my parents, not the
faith of my forefathers, but the faith of me.
And so it's beautiful because we received those sacraments.
Now, when I received my confirmation, I was just excited
because we got the next day off of school and there was an ice
cream party. And so I didn't think of it that
way. But in its purest form, our
church actually bakes in this very decision point for us in
our formation. For those Jose who maybe they
have friends who are at this place.
Like we were talking the other day about your your neighbor and
you guys had a nice conversation and you thought he was super
cool looking. They just had their first baby.
You had your first baby and you're like, dude, I want to get
to know this guy. What would a conversation look
like with him to just be able to slowly, over the course of a
friendship, move him from, yeah I was raised Catholic to man,
I'm really interested in this. That's a great question.
There's a funny story type to this.
So I I met this neighbor that I was telling you all about a
couple months ago. He was putting up Christmas
lights and. Shirtless.
No. Because wasn't.
Isn't he pretty jacked? He, he's so jacked and so he's
putting up Christmas lights and I, I was going on a walk with
our newborn, right? Giving my wife a, a time to
breathe and, and, you know, do what she need to do.
And so I just started up a conversation.
It was kind of weird at first, yeah, but I, I saw him as a, he
looks around my age and we live in like a neighborhood and like,
you're not living here if you're single, you know, so like, oh,
we want to make some community. And so start a conversation.
I was like, hey, he was wrapping the trees.
I was like, oh man, like what did I say was my opener?
It was a. Great rapping job man.
I thought about this and I was like, oh, dude, that's great.
I said, hey, looking good. I've been thinking about doing
the same thing. You know, how are you?
Like, what are you doing? How are you doing?
The rapping right? And so smooth.
It was a little awkward. But you thinking to me, he's
like, yeah, dude, you know, my, my wife and I just like reached
out to someone and they quoted us like a ton of money.
He's like, oh, me too. So we just kind of started
connecting and we ended up having a great conversation
where they both went to LSU and he's like, yeah, we're Catholic.
I was like, great. But I didn't want to start
saying like, oh, I'm Catholic too, You know, I work for a
Catholic organization, like. I'm super Catholic.
I love Catholic. At the end, you're.
Right. Because I was like that.
There's such a spectrum of like what someone means when they say
they're Catholic, right? But I was laughing as I walked
away because I wanted to invite them into something so I could
like become better friends with them.
But the same time it was around my birthday and they want to be
like, hey, do you want to come to a birthday party this
weekend? And right.
And so as I ended the conversation, I was like, well,
how can I ensure that I see them again?
And so you guys, he's like, how do you do you normally like walk
over here? He's like, yeah, we live down
the street. Normally around this time we go
on a walk. He's like, dude, well, you know,
swing by anytime whenever you're, you're going on a walk
with, you know, and so it, this is a funny part.
It's like ever since then, like almost every single day around
the same time, I walked past their house hoping that I read
into them again. And you don't.
I still have it, you don't. I do wonder if they see me
through the window who's slowly walking by house and.
Everything. Like that, I can make an effort
not to look at their house, you know?
But I think what you're getting too, and my normal stance with
this is it is kind of hard to start by verbally asking like,
oh, tell me what you believe, right?
What do you think about what the Catholic Church teaches about
this? That's like a really strong way
to start a conversation about the faith.
But what my wife and I always talk about is like, well, we
need to invite people into our lives and let them see the
difference, right? And I don't know if that's what
you're getting too. And then they can start asking
questions. But I need to be my authentic
self. And what I mean by that is I
need to be OK with sharing. Like, you know, when it might be
like a simple question, like, oh, why do you guys live here in
Baton Rouge? I'm not going to say like, oh,
because it just made sense. I'll go ahead and share.
It's like, Oh, well, you know, my wife and I took some time
praying with this and I'll, I'll start talking about like I'll be
pretty authentic about how we live our Catholic life.
And then I'll let them decide if they want to ask or not, at
least initially, right? Once we become better friends,
maybe I'll start asking. And then sometimes that doesn't
work out. Sometimes that in and of itself
can weird people out. But I'm OK with that because I
know that I did what I like. I'm not going to hide who I am
and I'm not going to hide what I believe.
I'm not going to hide the truth of the Catholic faith just to
make someone feel more comfortable.
But I'm also not going to attack him with it.
You know what I mean? I, I love how you, you use the
example of like using natural conversation to slowly weave in
your beliefs. And I think that's such a, a
smart, emotionally intelligent way to, to show the cards a
little bit without shoving the cards across the table.
And I'm, I'm thinking about, I always do this and, and I get so
frustrated. You know, all three of us have
travelled pretty frequently for our jobs.
And so you're on a plane and you sit next to a gentleman.
First question. Oh, So what were you were you
heading, you going home, leaving for a trip?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, what do you do for work?
And there's, I have two answers, OK.
One is the cop out answer. And unfortunately, I give the
cop out answer way more than I would like to, which is, oh, you
know, I, I, I travel for work. I work for a, a non profit.
I think that's, that's a cop out.
And I know it's a cop out because I don't want them to ask
more about it. Yeah, the the real answer and
the answer I would like to give is I'm a Catholic missionary and
I work for a Catholic apostolate and we serve college campuses
across the country. So I'm going to visit some of
our staff. And that's the real answer.
That's the answer I should give. But my fear and my honestly
laziness and tiredness that says, please don't ask any more
about it often overwhelms. So I love that example you gave
because in in conversations and friendships, there's there's
honestly subtle ways, but but yet bold to still weave in what
we really believe in elements that that are just natural
conversation points. Yeah.
And, and I think that's a really easy one for us in our stage of
life is like, we do work for Catholic Apostle and it's a
really easy way for us to start. I mean, even with this person
that we're talking about, my neighbors, that's how it
started, right? I, I, I was wearing my A&M
stretcher. He's like, oh, you went to A&MI
was like, yeah, what about He's like, I went to LSU and I was
like, oh, no way. I work with LSU.
Cool. And he was like, oh, what do you
mean by that? Let's go actually work for a
Catholic organization. And I'm a Catholic missionary
and I and I work with students at LSU that are trying to find
more about their faith, right. And that's when he was like, oh,
what it well, what does that mean?
And that kind of led to a little bit of something, but that's a
very natural way for us to talk about it.
What about for for listeners, for friends that maybe don't
have such an easy way, such as I work for Catholic organization
organization. How can you work that into a
conversation? I think, I mean, I think a great
way is, you know, if you're, if you, you know, spend time and
prayer in the morning, you know, if, if someone says what you do
today, you might say, oh, you know, I've worked out, went to
work, you know, great day. I had a great conversation at
lunch, like, blah, blah, blah. What if you could start working
in, you know, the, the regular practices that you, that you
have in, in your life is like actually, you know, it's been a
great, been a great day. I had a, you know, 6:00 AM, you
know, Bible study this morning about, you know, 7 or 8 guys
that we, you know, we meet weekly together and the content
was really great, you know, yadda, yadda.
Or, you know, I went to Mass this morning and just not being
afraid, honestly. Here's another big one as well.
This isn't about, you know, just directly being in a
conversation, but unabashedly making the sign of the cross
before your meal in public because we all do the thing
where we go like this. You know, sometimes when I'm
praying a rosary on a plant, I do that.
I did this on, on a plane ride recently.
I was praying my rosary and I kind of just went.
Yeah, 'cause I hide the rosary in your pocket.
Yeah, You know, you just kind of I'm like, bring it out.
But like when we before we take off and when we land, I always
say a few prayers for, you know, protection and, you know, I, I
should be making the full sign of the cross, but I don't, I
don't do that, you know. So there's all these tendencies
to not want to offend people or make people feel uncomfortable.
But I would say that's a just a really normal way of like, yeah,
like, did you pray this morning? Share that you know.
The weekend question is another one of my favorites.
So it's like the ultimate, you know, low level water cooler
office conversation. Oh, what'd you do this weekend?
Watch the eggs? You know, did some lawn work,
you know, trees getting trees really getting overwhelmed here.
You know, instead, like, Oh yeah, took, we went to Mass on
Sunday, went home, had a big brunch.
You know, we had a wonderful Sabbath.
It was, it was wonderful. Got to watch the eggs lose
again. And, and that's just a, a
natural time, like you said, to just weave in what's actually
happening in our lives. I mean, heck, the best way to
make your faith clear is just have kids because they do things
that and with boldness that you're almost embarrassed about,
you know, and, and frankly, when you have a lot of kids, the
first question you get is, are you Catholic?
For sure. And it's either yes or a Mormon.
And normally I pick Catholic. So as, as we close up our time
here, you know, we hope this is, is a relatable conversation for
you. We'll close with just an image
that a friend gave me, which is that a lot of people wear these,
these jackets of their beliefs. And you can imagine like a
Letterman jacket, you know, and it has employee and it has
husband and it has father and it has, I graduated from this
school. And then they have like the
Catholic patch on. And, and often times in our
lives, we feel like we just have the Catholic patch on.
It's just a part of our lives. But what would it look like to
not just make Catholicism the the patch that you wear or just
one aspect of your life, but to make your faith in Christ the
deepest part of your identity? That's what we're about at the
All In podcast is, is moving our faith from just a small snippet
to everything that we do flowing from our faith in Christ.
And so if you are a guy on that journey, where you have friends
that are on that journey, make sure that you're tuned into this
podcast because we are all about relatably sharing our journey of
holiness together as brothers. And we want as many men to join
us in that journey as possible. This is the All In podcast.
Make sure you're subscribed, liked, share this with the
brother who needs this. We are all in on not just being
culturally Catholic, but being truly Catholic.
See you in the next one.