1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,080 Fellas, do you guys feel like you need something in your life 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,840 that is hard, something that is difficult, something that forms 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,280 your character outside of just your job? 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:10,520 Well fellas, this is the spot for you. 5 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:13,160 This is the episode for you. Today we're going to dive into 6 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,760 why work alone can't satisfy your craving for doing 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,880 challenging things in your life as a man, as a father, as a 8 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:24,920 husband, as a friend, and maybe, just maybe as an employee. 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,560 This is the All In podcast. Happy to have you. 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:48,080 All right boys, here we are. We are 6 episodes deep into our 11 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:53,600 Jocko Willink post New Year's episode A Thon and we want to do 12 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,360 hard things. And here we are. 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,600 We're sitting back and we are talking about the fact that men 14 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,200 like to do hard things even if they don't say they want to do 15 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:05,280 hard things. Deep in the heart of every man 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,800 is that desire to prove to themselves. 17 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,080 Am I willing, am I able to be under the gun and to prove 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,480 myself right when the challenges are difficult. 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,600 So when we talk about manhood, one of the things that comes 20 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,640 first to mind is our career and we'll talk about that. 21 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,440 But what I want to talk about is the outside of that, the time 22 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:27,960 that you're spending outside of your work. 23 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,080 And do men need to have things in their life that are 24 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,440 challenging them? My answer is going to be yes, 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,040 but I'd like to dive into why that is. 26 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:42,040 Fellas, what do you think men need outside of their work to 27 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,320 continual continually challenge them? 28 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,400 Well, I think for so many of us, work just becomes our identity. 29 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,720 It's easy for us to escape into work there. 30 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,440 You know, in a lot of, you know, lines of work, there's 31 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,360 opportunity for continuous advancement. 32 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,520 You know, if I can do well here, then I can advance in in this 33 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,480 way or can I get a raise here, I'll get a promotion or I'll be 34 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,320 noticed more like whatever it is. 35 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,920 And so it's really easy just to focus, you know, all of your 36 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:14,520 mental energy and honestly, a lot of your physical energy as 37 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,520 well as, you know, going into the workplace, which honestly is 38 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,760 not necessarily a bad, a bad thing. 39 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,040 You know, to be, to be driven at work and to seek, you know, I, I 40 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,920 would say, you know, personal and company wide achievement in, 41 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,080 in your, in your line of work. But then ultimately that could 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,240 become obsession. You know, something that this is 43 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:37,960 just kind of a little bit of a side note, I guess. 44 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:43,480 But I was, I went on a, a walk with my boys recently and that 45 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,800 I, it was one of the first times I realized like, Oh my gosh, 46 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,120 I've kind of been obsessed by work recently where it's on my 47 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,640 mind all the time. And that becomes mentally 48 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:55,040 exhausting, like even in the evenings and things like that. 49 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,840 And normally with my boys, you know, like if we're going to, if 50 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,080 we're going to do something together as a family, it's like 51 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,720 pre planned, like we've got from this time to this time. 52 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,400 And my goal is to accomplish this in over the course of this 53 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,120 one hour that I have with them, you know, and then, you know, 54 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,680 that again, you know, I have a tendency to kind of be uptight 55 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,720 about things. But I was finishing a workout 56 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,440 the other day and my kids usually hang out in the garage 57 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,520 with me while I'm while I'm working out, particularly if 58 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,520 it's in the in the afternoon. And then afterwards I was like, 59 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,240 you want to go on a walk? And we just went on this like 60 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,360 leisurely stroll or there was no activity. 61 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,800 And that was one of the first times that I realized like, Oh 62 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,600 my gosh, I think I haven't, you know, I haven't allowed myself 63 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:39,440 to enjoy leisure like this in a, in a long time outside, outside 64 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,600 of work. And so right now, this is a 65 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,400 question that I'm even asking myself right now is that family 66 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,520 life can kind of become all consuming. 67 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,200 Work can kind of become all consuming. 68 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,560 Like, is there another area of my life right now where I can, I 69 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:57,680 don't know, pursue greatness, you know, outside of just work? 70 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:58,800 Does that make sense what I'm saying? 71 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,600 Yeah, I think that's why I picked up golf, you know? 72 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,080 Yeah, yeah. No, for sure you're pursuing 73 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,560 greatness. Get your mind. 74 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,640 Trying to get. Trying to get a time. 75 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,760 Tour card you know in a couple of years chasing scratch here. 76 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,880 No, yeah, I, I, I totally agree with you. 77 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,880 Like, yeah. I think there, there's a desire 78 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,279 in the, in, in many men that we know and many men that maybe 79 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,160 we're walking with that in, in friendship that there's 80 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,120 something about work where work is demanding. 81 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,320 And, and I think it should be demanding. 82 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,600 If you have a career where you feel each day like you didn't 83 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,520 add a ton of value or you weren't challenged. 84 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,320 Those are days where I personally feel kind of 85 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,920 worthless in my, in my job versus days where I feel 86 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,160 challenged are days where I leave the office and I'm like, 87 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,640 man, really felt like I got a lot done today. 88 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,680 Felt really invigorated. I felt engaged in my work. 89 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:52,080 But I do think that when challenge comes from work, it 90 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,400 isn't necessarily chosen by you. It's placed upon you by outside 91 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,280 pressures. Could be a boss breathing down 92 00:04:58,280 --> 00:05:01,080 your neck saying, hey, we need the slide deck by this deadline. 93 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,400 It could be hitting quota of your sales for that quarter. 94 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,520 It could be a stress of needing to perform so that you can get 95 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,160 that raised or or get that stipend or get that bonus. 96 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,560 And and I think that those things build confidence, but 97 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,640 they don't build nearly as much confidence as when you're 98 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,120 choosing stress and obstacles for yourself, when the obstacles 99 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,560 aren't outside imposed, but are somewhat self-imposed. 100 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,960 And so you're choosing the hard thing. 101 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:33,440 And then you also get to see the results of the thing that you're 102 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,400 choosing for yourself and not that is being asked of you. 103 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,720 Have you seen that Jose in in career or outside of? 104 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,520 Of just like choosing hard things for myself. 105 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,680 The difference between choosing it for yourself versus that 106 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:53,040 being placed upon you in your work or by an outside influence. 107 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:57,960 Yeah, it's funny, I my whole life I've just always struggled 108 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,240 with authority. And I was talking to a friend 109 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:04,160 last night of like, remember in school when you know, they'd ask 110 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,280 you to like, read a book and you have this much time? 111 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,720 Well, now I don't want to do it, but if I pick up this book on my 112 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,320 own, I'll read it in like 3 days and it's like, and that's kind 113 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,240 of similar. I, I feel like a lot of times at 114 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,600 work, I'm asked to do something hard in the most like me. 115 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,040 Why are you asking me? Like, I don't want to do this. 116 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,240 But when I, when I'm the one seeking it out, I'm a lot more 117 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:28,320 bought and there's more at stake. 118 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,560 I feel like because I'm actually willing to engage this, you 119 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,840 know, that's what you're asking. But I do feel like there's a 120 00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:38,760 little funny caveat for me specifically, that whenever it's 121 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,080 asked of me, I will do everything in my power to combat 122 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,760 it because I don't like to be told what to do. 123 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:46,640 And I just need to grow up, you know? 124 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,840 And when you choose it for yourself, what's what's the 125 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:54,120 opposite of that? I think when I choose it for 126 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:59,640 myself, I'm a lot more open to failure, right? 127 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,520 And maybe that's why I don't like being asked to do things. 128 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,520 When I choose something for myself, I'm a lot more open to 129 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,560 failure and learning from that. If it's something that's really 130 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,880 hard that I know is going to challenge me, well, I'm I'm in 131 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,680 this because I chose to and I mess up. 132 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,440 Then I can grow from that and I can do something better next 133 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,280 time and I can keep growing and keep growing. 134 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,680 If someone asked me to do something, if I fail, that could 135 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,600 affect how that person sees me and I don't want. 136 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,120 That I'm wondering Clayton in your in your new role, it's a 137 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,920 lot more outcome based. It's like if your job is to 138 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,440 raise a certain amount of money and you're trying to hit that 139 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,320 goal. And I think that often times 140 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,600 some of my frustration in work comes from I feel like I don't 141 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,720 control the results because I am leaning on other people to help 142 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:53,640 me provide the outcome that I'm looking for. 143 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:56,440 Someone described to me working on a teams, like being in a 144 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,760 giant group project in college where it's just like you need 145 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,920 the other people to contribute to actually get the outcome that 146 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:07,240 you're looking for. And, and also in work, often 147 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:11,040 times effort doesn't equal the results that you put in. 148 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,040 So you put all the effort in, but maybe you're not seeing the 149 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,560 outcome on the other end. And I'm wondering if your kind 150 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,680 of new career has shown you that in a new way? 151 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,360 For sure, definitely. I, I think that all of us want 152 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,000 to be able to control events and control outcomes. 153 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,560 And sometimes you can do everything right and not get the 154 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,440 outcome that you want. And sometimes you can do 155 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,840 everything right, you know, over a period of time and, you know, 156 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,919 over a period of time, still not get the outcome that you want. 157 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:44,039 And so I think that, you know, particularly being new in a role 158 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:47,440 where I'm having to, I'm, I'm learning, like I'm growing, 159 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,680 there's a lot that I don't know, there's a lot of experience that 160 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,760 I don't have. I want to see, you know, things 161 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:58,680 change quicker than maybe maybe, you know, than they are, are 162 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:00,280 currently. You know, I'm like, I want to 163 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,160 be, I want to be good at what I'm doing, but there's certain, 164 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,960 there's only certain things that that I can, I can control. 165 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,320 And so I think that, you know, with what I'm doing right now, 166 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,720 you know, I can't necessarily control the outcomes, but I can 167 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,400 control what I do on a daily basis. 168 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,600 And is is that frustrating to you that you're like, I could do 169 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,640 everything right today and still not see that outcome? 170 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,840 I think where the frustration comes from is that like you were 171 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,400 saying, you know, I, I think in a lot of ways, like where I'm, 172 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,960 I'm working right now, the, what leadership wants to see is 173 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,560 great, is really great inputs. Because if you have really great 174 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:37,280 inputs over six months, you might not see results. 175 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:41,720 But if you have really great inputs over 12345 years, you're 176 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,680 going to, you're going to get some, you're going to get some 177 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:47,080 wins, you know, And so I think the frustrating experience is 178 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,000 not necessarily, you know, I'm not, I'm not getting the results 179 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,760 that I want. I think where the frustration 180 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,360 comes in is that, you know, I want other people to see me 181 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,600 doing well. And if I'm, if things are not 182 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,120 going well, they must think that I'm doing things poorly. 183 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:03,160 Does that make, you know, you know what I'm saying there? 184 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,800 They must think that I'm, I'm, I'm doing things poorly. 185 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,360 And then it becomes a, you know, a point of a point of 186 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,120 insecurity. And so I think just, you know, 187 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,040 in, in any role that you're in. I was talking to a friend the 188 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,240 other day who's in, who's in real estate and I was asking 189 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,840 him, you know what it's, you know, just a little bit more 190 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,680 about what it's like he's done. He's, he's absolutely crushed in 191 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:25,240 real estate, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's 192 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:26,680 closing on houses every single month. 193 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,720 That might mean he closes, you know, 6 houses in January and he 194 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,640 doesn't close any in February or March. 195 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,080 I was like, how do you, how do you, what is that like for you? 196 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,000 Because you know, it's not, I'm, I know I'm not in the role where 197 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,280 there's any sort of Commission or anything like that. 198 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,120 But for him, he's got his own brokerage and every, you know, 199 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:48,600 every outcome. Doesn't this affect, you know, 200 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,160 his quote UN quote work performance? 201 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,000 It actually effects his, his actual income that that comes in 202 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,240 at the end of every month. And he's like, you know, I've 203 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,520 been doing this for five years now. 204 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,000 And he's like, what it comes down to for me is if I can 205 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,400 commit to my daily disciplines, he's like, I, I've seen it, I've 206 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,200 seen it work already too many times. 207 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,480 And that if I can just commit to these daily things, you know, I 208 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,160 might not have the outcome that I want on any given day or any 209 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,480 given week or any given month, But I know that if I continually 210 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,320 do this every single day over a long period of time, ultimately 211 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:21,720 the outcome is going to be successful. 212 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,400 And what that looks like for him as he's cold outreaching to 100 213 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,800 people a day. That's it's, it's three social 214 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,280 media posts and outcome in and then cold outreach to 100 people 215 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,680 a day. He's like, if I can do that 216 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,520 every single day, the winds are going to pile up in in my 217 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,800 corner. Something I want to go back to 218 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,080 you, though, John Michael is just the idea. 219 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,680 I don't want to give the impression that, you know, work 220 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,800 is something that's that's placed upon you, you know, 221 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:51,200 because back to your, your, your point, Jose, like we, you know, 222 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,160 where you work is where you chose, you applied there, you 223 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,880 were accepted there. Like, you know, it's not like no 224 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,160 one's fortunate. No one forced you to do any of 225 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,080 this. If you wanted to go home and and 226 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,360 sit on your butt or, or do something else, you know, you, 227 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,320 you could do that today if you wanted to, you know. 228 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:10,600 And so the idea of things being, you know, placed, placed upon 229 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,840 you and work, it might feel that way sometimes. 230 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,400 But ultimately it's like, yeah, you've got to be there might be 231 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,520 someone else telling you what to do, but you have to be able to 232 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:21,040 choose that for yourself at the same time. 233 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:25,240 And I think that also applies to all of us are parents now that 234 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,400 applies to parenting. It's like, hey, you know, your 235 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,680 kids spilled the milk. Did that, did that happen to 236 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:33,600 you? No, it's like, no, you like this 237 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,640 was an intentional decision to marry your wife and to have 238 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,080 children. And there's things, there's 239 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,320 things that are going to happen that you don't necessarily want, 240 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,280 but you have to be willing to choose for yourself. 241 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,280 And so, you know, between the demands of work and the demands 242 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,280 of parenting, you know, I, that's, that's a, in my mind, 243 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,600 that's a really full life of like choosing something 244 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,240 challenging for yourself outside of that. 245 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,000 And this is what I'd be curious to explore. 246 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,840 Or like, what are some of those avenues for challenge that 247 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,360 perhaps you've explored in your own life or that you've seen 248 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,440 other men explore in terms of, you know, finding a challenge 249 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,840 outside of the regular daily demands of, of parenting and, 250 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,480 and work? Like what does that look like? 251 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:20,120 I mean, for me, it's exercising. That's like my number one 252 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,360 challenge outside of work. I mean, me and Clayton got in a 253 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:28,880 wonderful workout this morning. It was this morning was like top 254 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:34,000 five workouts in my last year. We had four dads in my home gym 255 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,280 this morning in a very tight space. 256 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,080 It was very hot. Multiple men were shirtless. 257 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,200 There's sweat on the floor. There's music bumping. 258 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,880 It's 5:30 in the morning. Both my kids are awake and 259 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:46,480 they're downstairs there with us. 260 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:49,800 That was hilarious. It was 530 and my kids are just 261 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:54,160 like what is going on in here. But it was just so fun because 262 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,760 we were we were suffering together as dads, as men at 5:30 263 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,960 in the morning. We knocked off the hardest thing 264 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:03,000 to do in the morning and then by 6:30 we were ready to go. 265 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:07,040 So I love that. For me, why I fell in love with 266 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,440 with exercising is when when I trained for a marathon or a 267 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,520 triathlon or a high rocks race or whatever, the outcome is only 268 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,200 based on me. And that is different from my 269 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,040 work where in my work I have to rely on other people. 270 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:25,840 Now I want to make this clear, relying on other people is a 271 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,160 good thing. self-reliance is a bad thing. 272 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,720 But in my life I like having a few things where it's just like 273 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,040 it's just about John Michael. If he does the work, then the 274 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,840 outcome will come. If I don't have the race I want, 275 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,960 it was my fault because I didn't train appropriately. 276 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,280 If I did the work appropriately, then I'll see the outcome that I 277 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,080 put into it. And that's why I love training 278 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,520 for these things and competing in these things is because I get 279 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,560 to see the outcome that I put into it. 280 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,880 And I only can blame myself and I can only celebrate myself, 281 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,920 which is different maybe from from working on a team with 282 00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:04,640 other people in your career. Now outside of exercise, you 283 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,680 know, I, I read a, a sub stack for, for dads that I really 284 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:09,800 enjoy. That's something I'm doing 285 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,120 outside of work. And then and then obviously 286 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,720 family life, but I'm curious, are there other things outside 287 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,800 of exercise? I think that's a natural one for 288 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:19,440 many men. I. 289 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,160 Feel like it's the most common? Most common are the things 290 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,600 outside of that the guys can find. 291 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,760 Yeah, and I'm, and I'm wondering too, and maybe this is just part 292 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,280 of, you know, just had her first kid. 293 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,520 It's been 5 months, but it's still like I'm, I feel like I'm 294 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,760 still like trying to figure out any sort of steadiness or maybe 295 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,360 being OK with there not being the same type of steadiness and 296 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,440 kind of adapting to that. Where am I current now? 297 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,440 I'm like, oh, I, I, I, I don't know if I have time to add 298 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,120 something else, do anything, you know, I'm like, because it, 299 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,440 when, for the last couple of years and especially the year 300 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,480 before son was born, I, I think I, I started getting back into 301 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,560 working out and like lifting weights now wasn't anything, I 302 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,640 wasn't training for anything, but it was like something hard 303 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,680 that I was doing. I had some goals and I was like 304 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,480 challenging myself. But then we had a kid and it's 305 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,040 like, it's, it's not stressful, it's not chaotic. 306 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,800 It's just, I just feel like I'm not back in my group and I don't 307 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,440 know if you guys felt the same way after your first, but I'm 308 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,480 like, yeah, I don't even, I can't fit consistently like 309 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:19,960 working out into my schedule right now. 310 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,440 How can I? Even conceptualize of a 311 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,040 different idea that's not working out, you know to add 312 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,080 something hard. So to hear from you on too. 313 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,360 I mean I. It took me like 6 months to get 314 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,800 out of the fog after my first kid and I think the beauty is 315 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:38,880 with each kid the fog shortens. Hangover. 316 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,600 Time get shorter and shorter to where, you know, after the third 317 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,480 kid, it was like 2 weeks and now we're, we're back into a rhythm 318 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,480 and I'm hoping that's quick. Well, I mean, part of it is you 319 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,760 have to because there's other kids that need to be on a 320 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,240 routine and get to school and you know, the, the life doesn't 321 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,600 stop just because there's a new baby. 322 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,400 So where's like the first one? Everything stops. 323 00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:02,880 And you have an excuse and the whole family can change where 324 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,680 when you have other kiddos and the new one comes in, you can't 325 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,920 be like, hey guys, we're going to lock the house for six 326 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,880 months. We're not going to leave until 327 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:11,760 the baby's six month old. You just got to go. 328 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:16,599 So I'm, I'm wondering 11 area I found is like me and Clayton 329 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:19,680 both did our NBA's post grad while we were working full time. 330 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,599 And it was a grind. I mean it, it really sucked at 331 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:26,800 certain points, late nights, early mornings, but that was an 332 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,120 area where I felt like I was able to apply challenge and 333 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:33,240 difficulty outside of my career. I'm wondering what that was like 334 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,360 in your grad school experience. Yeah, it. 335 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:36,800 Was really, it was really difficult. 336 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,840 I I. I think about that. 337 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,560 I'm like, how did I do that? Oh, I. 338 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:42,920 Just you. You graduated. 339 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,120 How long ago was it? Yeah, I think. 20/20/23 I 340 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:51,320 finished the MBA OK, so I just. Graduated with my MBA from the 341 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,840 University of Dallas in August 2025. 342 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,160 So it took me, I started in May 2023. 343 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,000 So it took me, you know, 2 full years and then a summer semester 344 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,120 where I did my, I did my capstone and I think, you know, 345 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,000 the, the first year of classes, I was really into it. 346 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,360 I was like, this is, I'm so glad to be going back to school again 347 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,880 and to be studying. There's something I missed about 348 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,880 studying, you know, where you just, you go into the library 349 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,440 late at night at Texas A&M, you're in Evans library on 6th 350 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:20,960 floor. It's dead quiet up there. 351 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,320 And you're just kind of able to, to put on your iPod maxes and 352 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,920 just just grind, you know, private school kid. 353 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,960 And, you know, I just hadn't had that experience for a long time. 354 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,720 So the first year was really fun and then the last, you know, I 355 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,280 guess it was, you know, 15 months after that, I was 356 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,960 honestly, there was a large part of me that was just like, I just 357 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,120 want this to, to be over, you know, But as there was still a 358 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:46,400 requirement of me of like, yeah, this is something that I 359 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,120 committed to. This is something that I want to 360 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:49,160 do. And there's moments where I 361 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,520 don't feel like that I want to do it, but there's a sweetness 362 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,440 and being able to look back and be like, you know, not only did 363 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,880 I do that, but my family did it with me because there were 364 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,640 sacrifices that my wife made for me to be, you know, studying 365 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,760 late at night or to be getting some things done on Saturday 366 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,280 morning and things like that. So it was a it was a family 367 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,520 affair. Something I'm thinking about 368 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,000 though, John, Michael, and this is I think where where you and I 369 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:16,640 differ a little bit is that, you know, in in terms of you're 370 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,160 someone that I think is always looking for a challenge. 371 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,680 Unfortunately, much to the chagrin of my wife, frequently. 372 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,160 What do you What do you call? It you call it strategic 373 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,560 strategic commitment. Not an addictive personality. 374 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:30,840 Strategic. Commitment, not an addictive 375 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:34,920 personality. So, you know, I, I ran, I've run 376 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,720 1/2 marathon in my life and my goal was sub two hours. 377 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,040 I ran it in one 5940. But the thing was, is that when 378 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,080 I was looking at the, when I was looking at the finish line, you 379 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,880 know how your chip time is different from the finishing 380 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,400 time? Well, the clock was ticked. 381 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,760 It was like 15950. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm 382 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,360 not going to finish. And so I I did a full on Sprint 383 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,080 for like the last 150 meters. Well, it didn't look. 384 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,080 Pretty it probably. Didn't look as cool as I thought 385 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,120 it did, you know from from my own experience. 386 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:04,760 And I crossed the finish line. They tried to hand me a 387 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,080 finishers medal and I refused it because I thought it was a 388 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,440 doughnut. And then I saw these people 389 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,240 taking pictures with their medals. 390 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:12,200 I was like, where'd you guys get that? 391 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:13,720 They're like, oh, they're handing it out at the finish 392 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:15,600 line. And the guy was like, Are you 393 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,320 sure you don't want one? I was like, no, I like, don't, 394 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,520 don't give it to you. Well, that was the only half 395 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,520 marathon that I've ever done. And it was a lot of fun setting 396 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:23,760 a goal and then accomplishing it. 397 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,320 But honestly, for the most part in my life, like recently, you 398 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,880 know, I was, I was setting goals for for the new quarter and one 399 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,880 of the things that I was realizing was that I had a lot 400 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:40,880 of concrete goals for work. The the rest of the goals that I 401 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,320 set weren't necessarily goals. They were more so habits, 402 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,880 activities that I just. Want to make a part of my life? 403 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,280 Yeah. It was like, you know, I want 404 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,320 to, you know, I want to make sure that I'm in the habit of, 405 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,200 you know, having, you know, time for silent prayer every day. 406 00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,760 I want to make sure that I'm praying my rosary every single 407 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,240 day. I want to make sure that I have 408 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,760 a couple sessions of, of lifting weights and then some, some, 409 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,240 some cardio in there as well, you know, and, and the goal is 410 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,200 to be able to do that, you know, four to five times a week type 411 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,400 of thing. And I would say that, you know, 412 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,800 and then in addition to that, you know, goal of reading, you 413 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,160 know, a certain amount of books over the year. 414 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,600 And so I've got a list of books that I'm trying to read. 415 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,720 And I would say that, you know, a lot of those things that I'm 416 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:28,960 doing, I, I would say are at the service of the other main things 417 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,200 of my life. And I would say the two main 418 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,640 things of my life are my, my workplace and my, and my family 419 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,800 life, you know, where I view, you know, my, you know, you 420 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,880 know, wanting to commit to reading as, you know, 421 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,360 sharpening, sharpening my mind to be better in the workplace 422 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:48,920 and to be a better husband and father, you know, And then when 423 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,920 I look at exercising, it's like, yeah, I want to continue to stay 424 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,920 in shape for the, the, the sake of the sake of my family. 425 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,920 And then also, you know, for my career as well, you know, And so 426 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,920 I see those things at the service of these other main 427 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,440 things in my life, Whereas I think you're a little bit 428 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,200 different and that like you have an, you have an entirely 429 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,440 different goal that you set for yourself that you're, you're 430 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,400 going out to accomplish. And I would say I, I admire that 431 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:14,880 and I enjoy doing the half marathon. 432 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,400 That's really not something, frankly, that I have 433 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,040 consistently in my life. Yeah. 434 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,040 I mean, I don't know if it's a good thing, frankly. 435 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,320 I, I think it's probably something that's a vice in a lot 436 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:36,240 of ways is I am, I am to a fault, driven to the point where 437 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,200 it is so hard for me to turn it off. 438 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,760 Paternity leave, my least favorite two weeks of the year. 439 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,440 What am I supposed? To do just sit around for two 440 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,040 weeks, help the baby, you know, and I'm saying this fully 441 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,680 vulnerable that I know that is not a good thing, right? 442 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,400 But I we're having our our 4th baby here in a little bit and 443 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,160 I'm dreading paternity leave. Because I'm like, I can't. 444 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,960 I can't accomplish anything. I can't accomplish anything. 445 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,280 I can't do anything. Last paternity leave, I all of a 446 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,360 sudden within two days had bought a window cleaning kit and 447 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:08,800 had cleaned all the exterior windows in our entire house 448 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,200 within two days. By the time a week ended, Emily 449 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,320 was like, can you please go back to work? 450 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,640 You are driving me crazy that. Is awesome, so I I. 451 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,200 Don't think it's there's some good things about it and I think 452 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,680 to the world it looks attractive. 453 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,840 But just in my. Humanity and in my marriage it's 454 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,680 caused, frankly, a lot of issues because I'm so driven by 455 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,960 outcomes. That is so. 456 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,440 Hard for me to sit back and just be OK with a process or a habit. 457 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,480 And I actually, it's funny you mention that as I sat back and 458 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:45,200 looked at my 2026 year, that was something I took away was last 459 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,040 year I made ten annual goals and they were very specific and they 460 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,480 were very outcome based. I want 75% of this. 461 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,080 I want this, I want this. And so for 2026, I just decided 462 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,880 I'm not making any goals. I'm not making any goals. 463 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,360 I'm making goals internally that just are like, I just want to be 464 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:07,200 a better father this year, not outcome based, not I want to 465 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,760 spend 45 minutes per day in intentional time with my 466 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,360 children, but I'm not setting goals for 2026. 467 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,040 And you know, we're, we're a couple months in now and, and 468 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,240 it's been hard because I don't have any races on my calendar to 469 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,680 look forward to. I don't have any kind of KPIs 470 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,280 that I'm looking to as a as a father and as a husband. 471 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,880 And it's really challenging for me. 472 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,920 But that is producing a lot of fruit in my life because I am 473 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,040 learning that outcome is not the end all be all of who I am as a 474 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,040 person. And I have lived most of my life 475 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,360 thinking that outcome and a result and a success metric is 476 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,680 the thing that defines me. And that's going to be a 477 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,960 lifelong, lifelong journey. 2026 has been very helpful so far and 478 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,400 I hope we, I hope I move it forward. 479 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,840 Amen. Thanks for sharing all that. 480 00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,800 Yeah, you bet, man. You bet. 481 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:08,720 As we as we come close to time here, one question here is how 482 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:15,080 do we create a life that challenges us without making us 483 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,600 suffer in ways that we don't need to? 484 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,240 How do how do we create an environment where we're being 485 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,560 challenged, but we're not taking additional suffering on that we 486 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,800 just don't need in our lives? There there's a quote that I've 487 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,280 been reflecting on recently from a St. 488 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:38,040 Saint John of the Cross, who I believe was 16th century. 16th. 489 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,640 Century St. If my give or take a couple of 490 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,400 centuries is is is correct. But he said in in the twilight 491 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,040 of our life, we will be, we will be judged by love alone. 492 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,600 In the twilight of her life, we will be judged by love alone. 493 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,520 And just made me reflect on, you know, so much of so much of my 494 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,400 life is chasing the next thing. So much of my life is, is trying 495 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,600 to, you know, accomplish the next thing. 496 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:09,640 And I'm, I'm less concerned with, you know, how my character 497 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,040 was built in the midst of the thing that I was doing. 498 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,760 And I'm more concerned with, you know, the outcome and the goal 499 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,400 that I've set my for myself and trying to trying to accomplish 500 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,880 it. And something I think to, to 501 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,920 take away from the strong, Michael, is that I don't think, 502 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,920 you know, you described your, you know, pursuit of the 503 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,360 challenge almost as if it were a vice. 504 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,800 And, and, and maybe taken too far, it, it can be, you know, 505 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,920 But I think ultimately between our, you know, philosophies, 506 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,520 particularly, I guess around exercise, you could say, whereas 507 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,440 maybe I'm a little bit more of a, of a casual exerciser, you 508 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,240 know, you know, I think something in pursuing a 509 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,360 challenge is that there's a, there's a higher level of 510 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:54,640 accountability with that. I'm going to run this race in 511 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,760 four months from now. And there's these habits that I 512 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,080 need to have in my life in order to be, in order to be prepared 513 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,320 for that race in the way, in the way that I want to be. 514 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,240 And so that that race is holding me accountable to becoming the 515 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,000 man that I want to be in the midst of my daily life, which is 516 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,640 I want to be someone that stays in shape and exercises every 517 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,600 day, you know, And that that race is the thing that's holding 518 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,080 me accountable to building the character and helping me become 519 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,840 the man that I that I want to be. 520 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:26,320 And yes, like there's an outcome associated with that. 521 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,480 And if I don't hit it, at least I can look back and say, well, 522 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,240 you know, there was. My character was shaped in that 523 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,000 and I committed to the things that I wanted to commit to in 524 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,360 order in order to achieve the goal that that I wanted. 525 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,160 I didn't get there, and that's OK. 526 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,840 But I was shaped along the way in the in the midst of that 527 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,200 process. Or you can say I didn't do the 528 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,760 things that I committed to and I failed in that race because of 529 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,560 it. I have something to improve upon 530 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,720 the next time. And so I think, you know, you 531 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,200 can find that in the form of a challenge like a race. 532 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,600 You can also find that in the form, honestly, of just 533 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,120 brotherhood with one another of just, you know, yeah, I've set 534 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:00,840 all these habits for myself, yourself. 535 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,280 You know, the way that you've held yourself accountable to 536 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,320 those things is by having the challenge out in front of you. 537 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,800 But there's another way to have that as well, which is just, 538 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,640 hey, you know, here's here's the the goal of of what I'm I'm 539 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,160 going after. Maybe I don't have a race at the 540 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,760 end of it, but I'm checking in with a friend of like, hey, I'm 541 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,240 doing these things because I want to be a husband and father. 542 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,240 That's that's in shape. I want to be a husband and 543 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,960 father that works hard and works toward a goal. 544 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,960 I want to be a husband and father that commits to reading 545 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,480 every single day. I want to be a husband and 546 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,080 father takes time for prayer, you know, every, every single 547 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,640 day. And so I think that's something 548 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,240 to, you know, reflect upon is that, you know, you can have 549 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,840 that exterior form of the of a challenge as well, but you can 550 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,320 also allow yourself to, you know, set these, you know, 551 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,120 habitual goals and then look for accountability outside of just 552 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,920 the challenge itself. And both are good. 553 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,480 That's right, you know, and it's all about, you know, your your 554 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:48,080 character formation in the midst of that. 555 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,960 And then if the outcome becomes more important, then frankly, 556 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,000 growing in in character, which is going to allow you to to love 557 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,240 greater then we're I think we're missing the mark a little bit. 558 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,600 It's beautiful, it's beautiful and it's, it's actually touching 559 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,480 on just some reflections I've had. 560 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,400 You know, me and Clayton, we, we got to go to Cancun couple 561 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,920 months ago with our wives. We got to celebrate our, our 7th 562 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,960 anniversary for me and my wife's 6th anniversary for you and your 563 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,240 wife. And on that trip, we each took a 564 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,520 day to just spend a whole day with our wives. 565 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,240 And me and my wife took that day to just reflect and just see, 566 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,120 are we on course with the life we want to live as a family? 567 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,240 And my reflection from that. But my take away from that trip 568 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:36,040 was I am so addicted to the outcome and that outcome doesn't 569 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,520 actually matter. Like I'm, I'm racing, I've been 570 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:39,720 training for this high rocks race. 571 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,320 I want to go sub 70. It's been a big goal of mine. 572 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,680 I'm chasing after it. I will be devastated if I don't 573 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,760 hit it. And I just had this realization 574 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,600 of like, who The Who? Who cares? 575 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,360 I'm a 29 year old dad who's racing a race that nobody really 576 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,520 cares about for a time that nobody really cares about. 577 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,840 Who cares? Like if I don't hit it, that 578 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,400 doesn't matter at the end of the day. 579 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,520 What matters is when we reach the gates of heaven, does the 580 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,120 Lord say, well done, my good and faithful servant? 581 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,640 And so if I got the career promotion, if I got the outcome 582 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,520 I was looking for, if I hit all my scorecard metrics for myself, 583 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,240 those things do not matter at the end of the day. 584 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:23,360 And what matters is, do we create a life of comfort or do 585 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,040 we create a life of challenge that is forcing us to be the man 586 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,120 that God is asking us to be. A man who's willing to take on 587 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:35,160 responsibility, a man who's all in on holiness, but recognizes 588 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,920 that it's difficult and that's why we need each other. 589 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,800 And so fellas, as you guys are sitting back and looking at your 590 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,800 future, don't be tempted to look at outcomes. 591 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,000 Don't be tempted to just look at what is hard, but rather be 592 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,800 committed to becoming a man that has the character to take on the 593 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:57,200 challenges, the difficulties of being someone who is in the 594 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,080 arena, taking on everyday responsibilities with humility 595 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,680 but also with magnanimity. This is the All In podcast. 596 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,880 We are all in on holiness together, on brotherhood 597 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,920 together. Because you can't go in alone, 598 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,600 it's too hard. Make sure if you feel alone that 599 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,880 you are subscribed, that you are liked, that you are commented, 600 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,000 and that you want to be a part of this brotherhood. 601 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,480 We would love to have you make sure to share with your boys 602 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,200 that need to be a part of this community. 603 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,080 This is the All In podcast. I am John Michael and these are 604 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,280 my 2 guests. Thank you for joining.