1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,440 Today we're going to be talking about something that we've all 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,120 thought about ourselves. Are we a good hang? 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,000 Right? Everyone asks themselves that 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,040 question at some point. At least if you are a good hang, 5 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:15,200 you probably have asked yourself that question. 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,320 So we're going to talk about those that are a good hang or 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,040 maybe why they become good hangs. 8 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,600 People that why someone might drain a room or not be a good 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,920 hang and what what what's the difference? 10 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,280 What makes someone enjoyable to be with and how presence matters 11 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,880 more than personality. This is the all in podcast and 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,200 hopefully we can be good hang for you today. 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:54,080 All right fellas. 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,880 Well, who? Who's someone who you genuinely 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:05,920 enjoy being around and why? 123 will. 16 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,120 Yeah, you were late on that one, huh my good friend Will. 17 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,960 I was thinking I had my my mind on Jimmy. 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:16,240 Jimmy. Jimmy from college. 19 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:20,720 Jimmy from college. He was such a great hang because 20 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,560 he was always smiling, always happy to see you, would remember 21 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,280 things about, you know, he was so great. 22 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,760 Jimmy is, I mean, when was the last time we talked to Jimmy? 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,080 It's been a couple years for me. I mean, I've talked to him post 24 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:34,800 college, but it's been it's been a little bit I. 25 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,240 Haven't talked to him since we took a bowling class our senior 26 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,880 year and we're in a little. Whenever you are, Jimmy, we're 27 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:42,640 going to send this to you. You are a great hang. 28 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,880 Here's the thing about Jimmy, and I think this is a principle 29 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,400 for all great hangers is they have. 30 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:54,800 They have not width that makes. Them sound overweight stockiness 31 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:56,320 range. Range range. 32 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,720 Range, they have range. They can talk to different 33 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,680 people about different things. Jimmy was kind of one of those 34 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,200 people who was like a professional BS are like just 35 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,360 just could talk to anyone about anything. 36 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:11,160 I've been told in my life that you know a little about a lot of 37 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,200 things. Those are people that you love 38 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,160 being around because you could put them in a room with a bunch 39 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,840 of strangers and they're going to be able to work the room and 40 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,560 have a great conversation about engineering, sales, religion, 41 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,680 football, and then circle back to cooking by the time the 42 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,560 nights all said and done. It's a great point. 43 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:29,680 Shout out, Jimmy. Shout out to Jimmy, I'm going to 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:30,800 send this to you. What a legend. 45 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,400 What do you say about Will? Do you think it's similar 46 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,960 qualities, the range, the being able to talk to anyone about 47 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,960 anything? I would say Will is just a very 48 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,280 light hearted, an enjoyable person to being around. 49 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,680 He makes you feel really funny. Yes, and he makes you real. 50 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,560 He makes you feel really funny. And then at the same time you 51 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,680 also kind of feel like he he he just kind of disarms you a 52 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,880 little bit with his with his humor. 53 00:02:58,880 --> 00:02:59,720 I would say. Yeah. 54 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,480 He's one of those people where you can just really quickly you 55 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,400 find yourself sharing things with him that maybe you wouldn't 56 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,480 share with other people just, you know, vulnerable things. 57 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,240 I get you can you can go deep with him. 58 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,880 I think sensitive things. Yeah, relatively quickly, I 59 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,760 would say. My favorite thing is is Will is 60 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,000 one of my I know I was late on saying his name. 61 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:19,600 What was the best man at my wedding? 62 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,360 He's my best friend, but Will and I became really close. 63 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,040 And then I think through that natural you guys also start 64 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,240 hanging out with them. But I do feel like pretty 65 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,560 quickly within like the first couple of times that you 66 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,280 specifically you Clayton hung out with Will, you were just 67 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,800 sharing every like the deepest things that were going on in 68 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,560 your life with your family, with, you know, with like 69 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,880 everything happening. But you're right, because he's 70 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,640 he's very disarming in a in a great way. 71 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,200 Well, I. Would say also Jose, we've been, 72 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:50,520 we've been good friends for a long time. 73 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,000 And for all of our listeners, I stood second at Jose's wedding. 74 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,880 The people's, which I'm very grateful for. 75 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,320 Yeah, the people's best, myself, the one that people wanted that 76 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,240 they didn't get. So kind of like LeBron? 77 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,000 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 78 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:05,280 What was it? Because I. 79 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,640 Did them out. I lost my train of thoughts. 80 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:07,680 He wasn't. Going to be able to. 81 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,320 Make it, I made it. Though you, you made it. 82 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,680 You did make it incredible. But anyway, sorry. 83 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,160 I lost my train of thought. What were? 84 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:15,720 You started talking to LeBron getting. 85 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,920 Deeper. Oh, well, I was going to say, 86 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:20,959 Jose, you're a great connector of people. 87 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:22,600 I think that's a great quality of yours. 88 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,160 And you'd become friends with Will before I had become friends 89 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:26,960 with them. I just remember you telling me 90 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,560 frequently, I think you guys are like 2 peas in a pod, you know, 91 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,360 like you'd become really great friends with them. 92 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,800 And honestly, you've been that way, I think, with a lot of 93 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,280 different people in your life. I've just you have all these 94 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:39,800 friendships and you like connecting your friends with 95 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,920 other friends that you have that aren't in the same groups. 96 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,960 Well, I think your best quality is you're not, you're not a 97 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,520 sanguine, but you're like people think you're a sanguine. 98 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:51,600 So for those of you who. May you talking about me or 99 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:52,280 Clayton? Clayton. 100 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,840 OK, I couldn't tell because you're pointing at me and you're 101 00:04:55,840 --> 00:04:57,880 looking at him I. Wanted to include him. 102 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,080 Yeah, you know, I. Appreciate that I needed that. 103 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,760 But for those of you who are not familiar, temperaments are just 104 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,440 kind of like a it's, it's a way to describe maybe like 105 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,560 personality things that you maybe naturally draw to. 106 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,360 So I think me and you would have sanguine as kind of one of our 107 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,560 main personality types. Sanguine's like you love people, 108 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,400 you love being with people, you love connecting people. 109 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,040 And you're not a sanguine in your strongest temperament, but 110 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,320 you certainly come off that way in terms of your friendliness. 111 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,720 So I think that's why you connect with people, but then 112 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,800 your melancholic comes in, your depth comes in, and then you're 113 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,680 easy to connect with, but then you have depth that Joe. 114 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,720 Michael and I lack. OK, now Jose, it's your turn to 115 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,400 affirm John Michael, now we go left. 116 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,320 Out. We should just all affirm each 117 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,160 other and all of our friends who are listening right now love 118 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,160 you. So I do love you and I do think 119 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,400 you have all great qualities, but that is not what. 120 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,080 There are too many to name right now, so we can't. 121 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:59,560 Even begin to. No, you know, something that I 122 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,840 do think actually makes someone a great hang that I think you're 123 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,520 you're probably the best out of all of us at is remembering 124 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,120 things about people's lives. I love asking people questions 125 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,560 about their life. I'm self-proclaimed good hang. 126 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,040 You know, we'll see when the when the reviews come in, But 127 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,600 I'm really bad at remembering things about people's lives. 128 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,000 I love talking about it and I'm up front about it, but OK, I'm 129 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,000 so sorry. I have a really bad memory. 130 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,760 You remind me. I was it, you know, your kids 131 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,520 doing this or what was it? How do you get in front of it? 132 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,600 I mean, just at lunch, you, you looked at our friend Nick and 133 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,120 like your son's like, what, four or five? 134 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,600 And he's like, you just turned 3. 135 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:42,600 So like, so we're talking about qualities that make someone a 136 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,880 good hang, but what are what are things that people do that make 137 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,160 them a harder hang, maybe even if they don't mean to? 138 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,200 So we did an episode, I can't remember when it was about 139 00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:02,440 conversation and we talked about the, the question asking portion 140 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,640 of good conversationalist. And I think that principle 141 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,840 applies here. Like there are people that 142 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:11,280 you're hanging out with that just deflate the room because 143 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,760 everything in the conversation, they always draw back to 144 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,320 themselves. So they they relate to your 145 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,320 experience only in so much as they themselves can talk about 146 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,600 something that happened to them. It's like you're talking about 147 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,680 your family, like, Oh yeah, my family, blah, blah, blah, blah, 148 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,320 blah. Instead of following that up 149 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,400 with Ohio. Yeah, tell me, tell me more 150 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:30,720 about that. I want, I want to hear more 151 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,880 about that. So I think that's one aspect 152 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,640 where people deflate the room. The other thing is like inside 153 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,560 jokes that no one really understands. 154 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,400 They're making all these little bits that only one other person 155 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,920 in the room understands and the other six are just feel left out 156 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,400 of the inside joke. That's a great way to kind of 157 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,600 shut the vibe down. You know what? 158 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,400 What quality is one that I, I don't think anyone does it like 159 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,000 maliciously. I I think it's just like a it it 160 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,320 comes from a place wanting to connect. 161 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,520 But when you're in a group and then someone keeps pulling you 162 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,960 out of the group, Yeah, you know, like we're all talking. 163 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,560 About someone on one combo, yeah. 164 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,800 Well, not, it's not like, hey, can I talk to you real quick? 165 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,040 It's like we're all talking about something and then they 166 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:15,480 just lock in and you're OK. Do you remember that, that time 167 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,240 that it's related? But it's like, it's only kind of 168 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,640 like an inside joke. It's just like an inside story 169 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:21,960 that has nothing to do with everyone else. 170 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,320 It just kind of fully pulls you out. 171 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,320 So right now I work in fundraising. 172 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,280 That's my my primary role that I have right now. 173 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,520 You can call it a bunch of different names, fundraising, 174 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,720 philanthropy, development. It's got a bunch of funny names. 175 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,960 And I've read all these development books over the last 176 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,240 year or so and I've kind of transitioned now I'm reading 177 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,840 more sales books right now. Philanthropy and development is 178 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,280 not the same thing as sales, but it has a lot of crossover and a 179 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,840 lot of what I'm reading right now, there's kind of a similar, 180 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,320 you know, pattern that that follows in sales as it does in, 181 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,240 in development and fundraising, which is that your, your first 182 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,400 encounter with somebody new, either you know, a, a 183 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,120 perspective or current benefactor, or you know, a 184 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,640 perspective or current customer is not to come in and, and just 185 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,040 try to sell somebody on something, sell somebody on a, 186 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,160 on a solution. Your first step is always 187 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,320 asking, asking questions and doing what's called discovery, 188 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,480 trying to understand, you know, in, in development, who this 189 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,120 person is, what they care about, why they care about it, what 190 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,200 that looks like in their life. And for someone that's new in 191 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,640 development or someone that's new in sales, you know, the 192 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,840 temptation is as soon as you, excuse me, as soon as you hear 193 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,720 something that you can, you know, promote your solution for 194 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,640 you, you jump in and, and you do that. 195 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,640 When in reality, you want to, you want to continue to ask 196 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,680 questions and go further. It's kind of like what what you 197 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:46,160 were saying, Joe Michael. And so I've been reading these 198 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,120 books. I'm like, Oh my gosh, like 199 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,800 there's, there's so much here that has, you know, it's, it's 200 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,760 really important in sales, it's really important in development. 201 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,720 But honestly, it's just really important for human formation in 202 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,920 general because a lot, a lot of what they're talking about is 203 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,720 just building trust with another person. 204 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,280 How do you build trust with another person and show that you 205 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,680 actually, you know, you're not just trying to get something 206 00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:09,840 from them, but you're trying to, to create, to create value for 207 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:10,880 them? And so I think we're really 208 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:15,000 quick to listen, to respond like you were saying, listening so 209 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,360 that I can now tell my story that that connects with what 210 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,600 you're saying instead of listening to understand and kind 211 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,720 of pressing in deeper and, you know, uncovering layers that are 212 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,320 there. What role does humor play in 213 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,120 either Inflating the room, making it enjoyable to be 214 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,480 around, or deflating it to where people feel uncomfortable? 215 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,480 It's a great. Question We lean one way or the 216 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,640 other in this group. It's probably to too much humor 217 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:46,200 at times at the cost of maybe delaying some serious moments. 218 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,320 Yeah. I, as you say that I was kind of 219 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:55,760 thinking to you of like, did you guys ever have a moment where 220 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,120 you're like, OK, maybe I'm the bad thing? 221 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and maybe not that, but I know late 222 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:07,720 high school, early college, I, I was very, I want to say 223 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,560 self-conscious in the, in the way that I was like insecure 224 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:13,880 about it, but just very conscious about how am I 225 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,040 speaking? How, how are the people 226 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,760 receiving me in like maybe overthinking it for sure. 227 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,920 And I kind of had to like reinvent my social skills a 228 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,560 little bit. Was there what what led to that? 229 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:29,240 Insecurity or overthinking? I have always been a very 230 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:35,240 stubborn person and I think it it still comes out at times 231 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,520 there's like I, I just need to be right. 232 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,560 And I was for sure the type of guy like late high school, early 233 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:46,040 college, that if there was any sort of anything, I would go to 234 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,360 any lengths to make sure that I was seen as I was right and you 235 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,240 were wrong, which no one cares about that when you're 18 years 236 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,240 old, freshman in college, just trying to make friends, right. 237 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,280 And I mean, I had a fine time making friends. 238 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,440 I, I wasn't like struggling on department. 239 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,600 But at the same time, I don't, I don't know if there was 1 240 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,560 moment. I just remember multiple times 241 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:09,160 I'm like, whatever I just said definitely changed the vibe of 242 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,200 the room. Whatever I just said. 243 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,880 People reacted differently to what Clayton said or to what 244 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:18,000 John Michaels or to like, I, I just started to notice there was 245 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,560 a difference the people reacting to whatever I was saying versus 246 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:22,840 what other people were saying, you know? 247 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,120 Yeah, and that's made me question a lot of like, OK, 248 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,760 well, what am I saying? What am I sharing, right. 249 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,520 I also tend to use a lot of humor, right? 250 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,560 And there's been a lot of time. So it's like, OK, like I've had 251 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:38,480 to learn in which relationships can I use more humor versus less 252 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,240 humor, you know? But I, I'm wondering if like, 253 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,600 was that just me that, that y'all go through something 254 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,600 similar where you guys just always good hangs, you know? 255 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,240 I think everybody probably goes through a phase of being 256 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,840 insecure about what other people think of them, whether that's, I 257 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,920 don't know, you know, you're in a, you're in a new group for the 258 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,120 first time, you know, or even just with your current friends. 259 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,760 I mean, that's just want to attempt a temptation, you know, 260 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,080 an insecurity or, you know, an, an, an attack from the evil 261 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,360 spirit of just like you're isolated. 262 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,400 Nobody likes what you're saying. You know, you're not, you're not 263 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,240 good socially. Like all those things. 264 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,080 I feel like all of us have experienced that at one point or 265 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,920 another of feeling of, of being isolated from the group because 266 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:25,960 you, you feel like you don't know you're doing something 267 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,120 wrong. You know, whether that's in a 268 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,760 social situation or whatever situation that you might find 269 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,080 yourself in. But I've found that the best 270 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,120 conversationalists, the ones that I enjoy speaking to the 271 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,640 most, they, they do the wave. They do the wave. 272 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,960 And what I mean by that is when you're using too much humor, you 273 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,520 tend to stay here, you know, you tend to stay on the on the 274 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,520 surface. And then it's like you can't 275 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,000 really, you don't, you don't connect really deeply with 276 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,320 someone at that level. But then you also have people 277 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,440 that are are really, really deep, which is good at times, 278 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,280 But I've been in, you know, multiple hour long conversations 279 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:02,440 where it's like deep the whole time. 280 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,440 And afterwards you're like, you got a headache and you know, 281 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,560 you're just kind of you're kind of tired and a lot of it was 282 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,840 good. But you know, the the most fun 283 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,320 and engaging conversations that I'm a part of are the ones are 284 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,760 the ones that go like this where you can dip into, you know, 285 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,600 conversation of death and then come back out and make some 286 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,880 jokes and be light hearted and then dip back into the depth. 287 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,320 So I would say doing doing the wave is probably a, you know, a, 288 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,480 a best practice if if you will, and I think. 289 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,240 Both of you guys identified the the growth and understanding a 290 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:34,960 room and understanding what's appropriate. 291 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,760 I just think that's a sign of emotional maturity, emotional 292 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,120 intelligence and emotional intelligence. 293 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,840 I don't know how you develop that. 294 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,360 We've all worked with people in our jobs where it's just like, 295 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,720 man, they just really lack emotional intelligence. 296 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,120 And I've always struggled to work with those people and coach 297 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:53,560 those people because I'm just like, I don't know how to teach 298 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,160 you that besides just showcasing it for you and having you be 299 00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,960 around people who are emotionally intelligent. 300 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,360 Because who taught us? I don't know. 301 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:03,440 Emotional, intelligent, you know. 302 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,880 I, I think I mean, what you identified as the beginning of 303 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,600 college was a time of emotional maturity because you're talking 304 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,560 about understanding that the way you're being received is 305 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,440 different than other people. That's emotional maturity. 306 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,240 You had the wherewithal to be able to identify that as a an 307 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,520 aspect of your life. And then you made changes to 308 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,920 adjust, right? It was your glow up. 309 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,480 You had the greatest glow up of college. 310 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,040 I did of us three. Your glow up was insane. 311 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,760 Yeah, dude, it was rough at the. Beginning, but I was talking. 312 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,080 About like every year you became cooler. 313 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:44,560 It's true. It's so true. 314 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:46,800 You took the fifth year we graduated and we were seeing 315 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,880 pictures of you were like, man, Jose is living the life. 316 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,200 Everyone should take a fifth here it was the. 317 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,320 Most fun. I never want to happen. 318 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,480 What happens when you're when you're deep though, or when 319 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,600 you're honest and then it just met with crickets? 320 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,240 Like, that is the worst feeling when you share something and 321 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,400 then everyone just kind of looks at you and you're like, I was 322 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,360 kidding about that, by the way. When? 323 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,080 Was the last time that happened to you? 324 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,120 Because that happens to me sometimes when I'm around people 325 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,960 that maybe aren't as deep into their faith. 326 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,640 Not on those like this feels like a big blanket statement. 327 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,640 It's not always true, but that it does tend to lean that way 328 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:37,160 when when people aren't maybe aren't as passionate about the 329 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:38,960 faith, they just feel uncomfortable. 330 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,320 Yeah. So that that that happened to me 331 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,280 a lot over break, being with my family or with old high school 332 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:45,800 friends. Yeah. 333 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,680 I feel like some good training that we've had just being a part 334 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,560 of a Catholic missionary organization for a long time, 335 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,160 leading a lot of Bible studies and small group discussions. 336 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,360 There's there's three main roles that we've kind of learned how 337 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,440 to play and leading a Bible study, which I think are also 338 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,040 really applicable to being a part of conversation as well, 339 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,680 which is the first one is the traffic cop, which is there's, 340 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,440 there's someone that's, that's talking too much in, in a 341 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,599 conversation that kind of yeah, just dominates the conversation 342 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:21,240 or derails the conversation. And as someone, you know, when 343 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,400 you're leading a Bible study, you want to take charge, you 344 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:24,680 know, make sure you're leading the Bible study. 345 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,960 But as as someone that's entering into a conversation, 346 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:30,000 really, you know, where there's not really one designated 347 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,840 leader, you're just in a group conversation, you can still you 348 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:37,240 can still play that role and be able to kind of, you know, pause 349 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,480 that. Thanks for saying that. 350 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,000 And then and then connect to somebody else in the group and 351 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,800 just recognizing that that might be, you know, a pattern for 352 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,360 particular people in the group. But that's what you know, 353 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,560 you're, you're not just being a great conversationalist because 354 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,040 you have a lot of great things to say, but you're being a great 355 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,880 conversationalist because you recognize that the dynamic of 356 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,520 the group and you're willing to kind of step in and lead the 357 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,880 group really, really subtly, you know? 358 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,000 Yeah, I think the time to move on from humor to seriousness is 359 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,800 when you can just tell, you know, the the laughter is dying 360 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,800 down, rooms getting a little quieter. 361 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,480 You can just sense a a feeling of guys are ready for that next 362 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,360 conversation point. It's like when the responses get 363 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:18,360 shorter, that's probably the time where you toss up a 364 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:21,280 question of somewhat depth, right. 365 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,000 Tell me about your experience here. 366 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,720 And that promotes conversation that gets past the point of 367 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,400 humor and allows for a on ramp to a deeper conversation. 368 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,920 So a lot of what we said earlier and we're kind of starting to 369 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,640 come back to to this quality is listening, right, asking 370 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,960 questions not to bring it back to yourself, not to respond, but 371 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,640 what did you say? Don't ask questions to respond, 372 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,520 but ask questions to. To understand. 373 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,800 So OK, listening is something that genuinely makes someone a 374 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,640 great thing. What are some other qualities 375 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,680 that make people good hangs? I think the. 376 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:05,720 Ability to engage both genders effectively in a room is really, 377 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,240 really hard to do. I was a little surprised coming 378 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,320 out of college and realizing that I I just kind of felt like, 379 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,520 oh, we all grew up and we can all talk to both male and 380 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:15,480 females. Right. 381 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,360 Like some guys are great hangs with the dudes, but then you get 382 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,920 a little uncomfortable when it's a, you know, a multi gender room 383 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,000 and you're just like, I'm kind of scared about that. 384 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,160 Talking to my wife. My, my wife always says that her 385 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,160 rating on emotional maturity of a man, whether it's someone I'm 386 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,760 investing in or a friend, is if they enter her house and right 387 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,880 away they start engaging her in conversation, she's like, right 388 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,440 away, I can tell that person has emotional maturity. 389 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,840 And I think it says something about the man because if you can 390 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,600 speak to, if you can speak to a lady in a way that is, you know, 391 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,040 responsible and appropriate and, and really seeks to know them 392 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,600 without making it flirtatious or overly inquisitive, that's a 393 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,280 sign of emotional maturity. And like, I think both of y'all 394 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,480 do that very well with my spouse. 395 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,240 I mean, even this morning Clayton was was over at our 396 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,000 place having breakfast and right away Emily walked into the room. 397 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,120 And Clayton gets up out of his chair, gives her a hug, you 398 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:17,560 know, welcomes her and starts engaging her in conversation 399 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,960 right away. That is a sign of emotional 400 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:25,120 maturity is when men can engage women single, married, you know, 401 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:30,680 older, younger in a way that is really raises the woman up and 402 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,280 and compliments her well. Yeah. 403 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,160 I think another just kind of shooting off of that a little 404 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,960 bit. We've all had that experience 405 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,880 where you're in a group of people and, you know, you're, 406 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,240 you're in a group of five, you know, four of the people, but 407 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,000 you don't know one of the people in the group. 408 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,360 And then you don't. Sorry. 409 00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:50,280 Group of six. Yeah. 410 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:54,040 Just to clarify, there's six people, five people that are not 411 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,680 you and you know, four of them. One of them you don't know and 412 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,240 you don't introduce yourself right away. 413 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,960 But then it's like then you're like 45 minutes in and at this 414 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,640 point you've kind of talked to them a little bit, but not 415 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,400 really, you know, and then it's like, do I do I introduce 416 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,520 myself, but this is kind of awkward now to be like, hey, by 417 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,520 the way, what's your name? You know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm 418 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,520 Clayton, you know. And so I would say, you know, 419 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,400 having the, again, emotional maturity intelligence to walk 420 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,720 into a room and there's a few people that, you know, they're 421 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,960 just being able to go up and address the people that you're 422 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,360 not immediately closest to. We've all been in an environment 423 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,720 where someone, you know, walks into a room and there's two 424 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,360 people that they know, two people that they kind of know, 425 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,200 and then two people that they don't know at all. 426 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,480 And then they just gravitate to the two people that they know, 427 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,160 you know? And it just kind of makes the 428 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,640 dynamic awkward for the whole group just being willing to go 429 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,720 up and shake someone's hand, engage them again, going back to 430 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,280 Jimmy, his range, you know, Jimmy was a friend of ours from 431 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:52,880 from high school. I was probably closer friends 432 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,920 with him in high school than you were John Michael. 433 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,400 And then we were in the same major in college. 434 00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,560 And so we did a lot of studying together. 435 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,920 And so I had a, you know, another, you know, friend group, 436 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,960 I guess, if you will, that I was always Jimmy was kind of always 437 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,840 around and he he did this super well. 438 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,680 He would always go up and like engage with my roommates and 439 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,000 engage with the people that came in the door. 440 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,520 And everybody always had the exact same thought, which is 441 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,240 like, I love, Jimmy's awesome, I love Jimmy, I love. 442 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,920 Jimmy Yeah. Yeah, but it is all forgiven, at 443 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,520 least for me, if that same person that you know going back 444 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,240 to your example is in a group and it's been 20 minutes in the 445 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,400 seven and introduced themselves, if they say, hey, I'm so sorry, 446 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,240 I should have introduced myself, my name is. 447 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,200 Right, Jose and. I'm like, oh great, we're back. 448 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,280 We're back to square 1. Yep. 449 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,160 It's funny to say that you know someone else. 450 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,240 I'm thinking was like a great Hank was y'all's roommate Cullen 451 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:47,800 in good? Looking great hang. 452 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,120 Great hang. I mean, like, he, yeah, he, he 453 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,720 had all those qualities. But what I'm thinking of, which 454 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,400 I don't know why this has always stuck with me. 455 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,440 There was someone that worked as a Catholic missionary at the 456 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:00,440 student center. Yep. 457 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,080 Y'all's roommate was not Catholic nor involved at the 458 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,320 student center, but he was friendly enough to, you know, 459 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,280 again, this is a silly example. She updated her profile picture 460 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,320 on Facebook and he commented like, great picture. 461 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,680 You know, this looks great, just like very friendly. 462 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,160 And that always stood out, stood out to me of like, you don't 463 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,600 know this person, but you're out here, like going out of your way 464 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,560 to make him feel seen. You know, like what a great 465 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:32,760 quality to have, which just kind of going back to like emotional 466 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,440 intelligence, emotional steadiness. 467 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,080 I think a lot of things we're we're going after is they, they 468 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,400 make people feel safe, right? Go back to Will. 469 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,280 He makes people feel, he disarms people, he makes them feel safe. 470 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,760 How can like a question I have, because we're talking about 471 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,640 like, well, you know, growing emotional intelligence. 472 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,840 Well, you know, reflecting on these things, but they, they, 473 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,200 we're not really giving a lot of practicals, which is hard to 474 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:58,920 give some practical advice with this. 475 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:03,080 But yeah, like what's something someone can do to grow in that 476 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,720 emotional intelligence, to grow in that listening aspect of 477 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,160 things right there, of making people feel safe with something 478 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:16,160 practical? I think 1 learn, be a learner. 479 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,000 So like you need to know, you need to take time to learn 480 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,520 things about people, about experiences, about ideas that 481 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,080 you're not naturally interested in. 482 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,400 Like 1 of the things I love talking to you guys about is all 483 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,680 of us are like, Oh yeah, I was reading this book about this 484 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,400 thing. I was watching this video about 485 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:34,920 this thing. I was watching Listen to this 486 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,000 podcast about this. And so your, your ability to 487 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:44,480 have range in a conversation is totally influenced by the range 488 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,720 in your, in your mind. Are you constantly engaging new 489 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,000 ideas to, to where you can be able to converse about a, a 490 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,680 various amount of topics, no matter if it's a topic that 491 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,760 you're personally interested in or whether it's something that 492 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,440 you know a little bit about, but you're excited to learn more 493 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,800 about it. So there's a learning aspect 494 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,640 that happens outside of the conversation so that then you 495 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,040 can have a learning mindset when you're in a conversation, when 496 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,160 you're in a room with people that you don't know. 497 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,080 If there's if there's one relationship in your life where 498 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,680 you feel like you've learned the most about yourself, what what 499 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,240 relationship would that be? That's out of my spouse. 500 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:24,840 No, I know. Well, that's the end. 501 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:26,120 You gave it away. That's the answer I'm looking 502 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:29,200 for is I would say that the relationship where I've learned 503 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,080 the most about myself is in my relationship with my wife about, 504 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:37,000 you know, my my tendencies to speak one way versus another 505 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,480 way, my tendencies in a group. And I would say the reason for 506 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,920 that is because, you know, in, in our, in our marriage, I feel 507 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,760 like it's just natural. You're constantly giving. 508 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,520 I don't want to say constantly, but it's a relationship where I 509 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,760 feel like I've, I've received a lot of feedback in a good way. 510 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,120 Sometimes, you know, I'm glad to hear it. 511 00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:57,600 Sometimes it's difficult to hear. 512 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,320 But I would definitely say one thing. 513 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,320 And this is, you know, we've totally employed this in, you 514 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,840 know, the roles that we've had for the last nine years in 515 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,040 different, you know, various forms of, of mentorship. 516 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,040 It's just asking for feedback from people because oftentimes, 517 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,360 you know, you can, I mean, you, there's things that you can do, 518 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:16,760 you can read books and kind of pick up on things and practice 519 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,880 some certain things like looking people in the eye, giving a firm 520 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,440 handshake, asking questions about someone before you start 521 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,600 talking about yourself. And you can definitely get 522 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,400 better that way. But I would say, you know, with, 523 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,280 with the friends that you have in, in your life, being willing 524 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,080 just to say, Hey, just give me, you know, give me some, give me 525 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,520 some feedback here. You know, well, just like, Hey, 526 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,560 what are some things that you think that I could grow in, you 527 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,440 know, and just growing in self-awareness like that is 528 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,960 going to help you in social situations, I'd imagine as well. 529 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,680 I don't know if this is the best advice or not, but this is 530 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,440 something that helped me when I was talking about, you know, 531 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,560 when I was coming to college and I was like, OK, I need to kind 532 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,800 of change some things. I would kind of make games out 533 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:04,400 of conversations and not in in manipulative or malintentioned 534 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,880 way, but more of like, OK, I'm going to make it. 535 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,400 I'm going to meet this person and I want to see how long I can 536 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,680 go without speaking about myself. 537 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,440 And just like that type of game, you know, that really helped me 538 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,840 in like learning, OK, can I connect with someone without 539 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,520 talking about myself? Can I connect with someone 540 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,280 without changing domineering a conversation? 541 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:32,920 Or can I connect with someone without speaking, just smiling. 542 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,080 Now maybe that's an extreme, you know, but just making games, I, 543 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,200 I think was very helpful for me. That's a good idea. 544 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,520 No, again, I don't know if it's just my because I overanalyze 545 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,000 things and I definitely have gone the other way too of like 546 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,800 OK can I say how many things can I say before ruining a 547 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,800 conversation? I think another example of a 548 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,200 great hang are people who have range in conversation, but also 549 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,520 range with generations of people. 550 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,760 So when you're in a room and you have people, it's so funny to me 551 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,800 now because I don't know if you guys feel this way, but we work 552 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,640 with people who are our parents age now. 553 00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:14,160 And we're, we're peers, maybe not peers in terms of like job 554 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,120 title, but peers in the sense that we're, we have professional 555 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,240 relationships with these people. And it's just always funny to me 556 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,320 because being from the South, I was at a wedding this weekend 557 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,680 and I, I saw some friends who were my parents age and I, I'm 558 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,320 still naturally inclined to call them Mr. So I was talking to 559 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,360 this guy and yes, Mr. John, Mr. John, like, how are you? 560 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,000 And he's like, hey, you have to call me Mr. anymore. 561 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,360 You know, we're, we're, we're both adults here. 562 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,960 And it just, it revealed that fact of there are a ton of 563 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,760 people that are great with people in their 20s, college 564 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,680 people, young adults, but you put them in front of a, a 565 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,200 grandpa and they're just totally lackadaisical in conversation. 566 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,640 Or you put them in front of a, a 50 year old have no idea what to 567 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,600 talk about. So there there's a multi 568 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,240 generational range too. And that's actually a great test 569 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,120 of your ability to be a good hang. 570 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,520 Do like people in their 50s like being around you? 571 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,720 Yeah. Or are they like, oh, he's 572 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,000 trying way too hard? There was no higher compliment 573 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,600 to me growing up than if someone told me my parents love you. 574 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,320 My parents always ask about you. It's the great, the greatest 575 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,880 feeling. Oh, people used to make fun of 576 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:24,920 me. They're like when you when I 577 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,360 invite you over to my house, you just sit in the kitchen, talk to 578 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,480 my mom and dad the whole time. Didn't even hang out with. 579 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,480 Me. You're the parent friend. 580 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,600 Yeah, everyone has that friend that's really good with the 581 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,720 parent too. Jose would come over on on 582 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,200 Christmas break, you know, in between semesters after colleges 583 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,400 as missionaries even come hang out with my inlaws at at at 584 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,480 their house. And Jose always did such a great 585 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,600 job of engaging, particularly my mother-in-law in conversation 586 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,080 was always hanging out with us, so much so that she wanted to 587 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,440 invite him over for Christmas because she thought Jose was an 588 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,200 orphan because because he spent so much time hanging out with us 589 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,960 at at the house. Never spoke about myself. 590 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,920 She loved him. Yeah. 591 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,240 Because you never, you never give away that. 592 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,040 Hey, you actually, I don't know if I ever told you, but I have 593 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:16,440 parents and siblings. Joe Michael, I've got a question 594 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,680 for you and I want, I want to see how you, how you answer 595 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,680 this. I think you know, a lot of what 596 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,120 we're talking about, what we're not trying to say is, Hey, 597 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,480 here's how you get people to like you, right? 598 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,200 That that's, that's not really the mindset that you want to 599 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,800 have when you go into these conversations is, hey, how can I 600 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,440 behave in a way where I get people to like me? 601 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,840 Joe Michael, you've always, you know, you've have a high EQ, 602 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,440 high emotional intelligence. I think you just want to bring 603 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:42,960 it back and just affirm you in the group. 604 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,800 You've been waiting all episode. And you, you've, you, you've 605 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,520 been, I think naturally skilled socially, you know, I would say, 606 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,840 you know, 10 years ago. Oh, no, I, I would, you know, 607 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,840 and, and I think, you know, we've spoken about this, maybe 608 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,520 you've spoken about, spoken about it on the podcast, but 609 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,400 those skills are more geared towards how can I enter into a 610 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,680 room and, and get people to like me. 611 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,440 And I'm going to, you know, use the word I don't, you're not 612 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,640 manipulative, but it's like, how do I, you're going in that 613 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,560 conversation? How do I, how do I, you know, 614 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,800 behave in a way where, yeah, maybe I'm doing all this 615 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,200 question asking, but it's like it's self-serving. 616 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,040 And I think I've seen a, a large shift in you over the last 617 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,560 number of years where it's become more genuine. 618 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,440 And your disposition is how do I serve the person in front of me 619 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,440 instead of I'm only really trying to gain social skills. 620 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,600 So and to be self-serving. Does that make sense? 621 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,200 Yeah, I mean, I think I would say all three of us are great 622 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,680 with people like I, I would confidently say that I think all 623 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,760 of us, myself included, maybe the foremost. 624 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,560 I know how to manipulate people like you can just when, when you 625 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,560 have emotional intelligence, you know how to just just get them 626 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,960 to like you. And, and you can do it to your 627 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,680 point in a way that seems selfless, but it's actually 628 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,560 selfish. Like I'm just going to ask a ton 629 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,160 of questions because I want you to really like me. 630 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:09,640 And I think still to this day, it's a decision of the will in 631 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,120 each moment to make the decision of am I thinking about myself 632 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:15,600 and how I'm appearing in this moment? 633 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,680 Or am I thinking about what I'm giving back in this 634 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,760 conversation? Am I using my abilities to 635 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,440 highlight those around me and genuinely seek out their best 636 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,280 interest in conversation or in an environment? 637 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,520 Or am I using this so that they like me? 638 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,120 Because it would be the same skills, but it's the intention 639 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,440 behind that. The hardest part about this is 640 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,440 from the outside looking in you, you really sometimes aren't able 641 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,720 to tell what this person's intention is. 642 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,440 But I don't know about you guys there. 643 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,800 There is a certain soft marker that you just know when you're 644 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,520 when you see it and you're like, man, they're they seem like 645 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,920 they're all about other people. But I can just tell the way 646 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,920 they're doing this, it's all about them. 647 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,840 Can you name that? I don't know because I don't 648 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:11,880 know if I can the word. Gentleness comes to mind here 649 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:17,000 because you could have a very charismatic personality that is 650 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,440 still subtly gentle and how it comes off to people, you know, 651 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,560 dominating versus meek that they have the same outside effect, 652 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,960 which is a sense of power. But dominating is I'm going to 653 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,320 use my power to make sure, you know, that I'm the alpha mic in 654 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,640 this room versus meekness being that ability to say, I have this 655 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,920 power within me. I'm able to control it, use it, 656 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,120 apply it, pull out that tool when the right time comes in 657 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,880 this situation. And then I'm also able to notice 658 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,320 when I need to pull back a little bit. 659 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,160 And you know, one of one of the things that I think I struggle 660 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,880 with in conversations is just dominating the conversation. 661 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,000 So you can even be someone that's asking a lot of 662 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,240 questions, but you're not giving the people around you the 663 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,240 opportunity to do the same. And so you're leading the 664 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,360 conversation and it looks like you're inquisitive, but in 665 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,199 reality you just want to hold the ball the whole time. 666 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:13,920 You're just dominating. Yeah, absolutely. 667 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,040 Sounds like what we're saying is that becoming someone people 668 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,080 enjoy being around isn't that performing. 669 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,840 It's not about just asking a lot of questions. 670 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,560 It's not about being someone you're not. 671 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,639 It's simply about connecting and being present to a person, part 672 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,280 of you. If this episode gave you 673 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,120 something to think about the next time you walk into a room, 674 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:38,600 share it with someone you love spending time with. 675 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,040 Make sure you're following or subscribe to us so you don't 676 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,120 miss what's coming next. We're the All In podcast. 677 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:44,800 We'll see you next week.