There are three HS we look for in woman when we're trying to
find our spouse. Humor, holiness, and are they
cute? And today we're going to zoom in
on humor specifically, but more on why do we as men use humor to
get through life right? When does apples connect?
When does it actually keep us from dealing with what's really
going on? This is the All In podcast and
welcome to the studio. You guys have a a joke that you
keep in your back pocket for when something gets a little
awkward or a little weird. It's probably just whenever
someone says something, I say. That was my nickname in high
school. That's a classic.
Yeah, so, but it's not, I want to say it's good.
It's good if people haven't heard it before, and it's good
depending on what they said before.
I make that joke. The first time it the first time
someone hears that joke. They love it, it hits so hard.
But like by the 4th time or like if one of you all made that joke
on the podcast, I would be like, hey, no.
What are you, 11? Just freaking mute yourself.
But then I do feel like that there comes a time, maybe by the
20th time, where it says become funny again, you know?
Well, then a joke kind of has three forms.
Funny, cringe, and then it's so cringe that it becomes funny
again. That would be one of those it.
Becomes a bit. It becomes a bit, yeah.
The other like bit joke that is kind of a back pocket is, you
know, if if someone says I I want to hire her, it's like hire
her, I hardly know her. You know that joke?
Like that went through that. I just feel like that was.
That's a very, that's a very niche example like we're talking
if we're in a hiring conversation.
I want to hire her. Hire her.
Harley know her. It's like the one time it
actually makes sense that it's not funny.
Or like water, water, water. Harley know her.
I think it came from liquor, right?
I asked the original. That was the OG joke.
Probably. Probably.
Yeah. And then?
It's on the office, the office, the office joke.
I think it popularized it. Yeah, what?
What did Scott say it? Yeah, Michael Scott.
What is the? Context, Scott.
They they're on a last name basis, they're really close, Mr.
Scott. Oh, me and Scotty, go away back.
Yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's a little bit of
what I'm doing right now, which is just the, you know, the, the,
the awkward, awkward laugh, kind of.
You have a. Great awkward laugh, but your
your laugh isn't awkward, but when you get uncomfortable, me
and Jose know because you're just going.
To like I did right now. Yeah.
It's nice. I think I've just.
I've always been really quick to laugh.
I'm quick to smile. Quick to laugh.
Yeah. Quick to love.
Yeah.
Breakdown barriers.
Quick to breakdown barriers. Yeah.
This is friendly. Barrier Breaker.
Miracle worker Worker. Thank you, Jose.
That was that was wonderful. What?
Why would you or not? Why would you?
Why would you do that? I'm like, why do you think humor
bonds, helps men bond so quickly?
You know, because I feel like growing up off high school, even
college and even now, right, But especially high school when I
feel like you, you notice these things more.
Like guy friendships are just a lot of laughing like you.
You become friends with the guy that's sitting next to you in
class because you just laughed at the same thing.
But girls, it's like they have to get to know each other and
all these things before they come front.
You know what I mean? I think that was always a thing
in high school, college. What do you think that is?
Why is humor so bonding for men? There's something about I just
think of like, male. All of my male friendships kind
of started with this little mutual roasting, kind of give
it, you know, giving it to each other a little bit, kind of see
how much they can take, how much they can't.
Like I have friends where it's like that is how the friendship
begin. You know, we have a mutual
friend, Vince, the producer of this podcast, and all of us love
to give him a hard time and he gives us right back.
And it's like that's where our friendship started with him.
So I think it's a trust thing. It's a comfortability thing.
If I feel comfortable enough to give you a hard time and you
give me one back, then I actually trust you and I like
you. I, I can't remember many
friendships starting off with like, let's just talk super
deep. But it's like, let let's build a
trust through banter. Yeah.
Good. What I was going to say was
that, you know, women tend to bond more over the
conversations, whereas men bond more over a shared experience.
And there's something to me laughing together is some form
of a shared experience. There's like an emotion that's
coming out of you, whether it's like I'm sharing a story and
we're both laughing about it. There's like, it feels like
we're, we're sharing something together.
Does that make sense what I'm saying?
It does. I like, I feel a lot more safe
to share about my life with someone if we've already spent
some time laughing, right? Because now I try, you know?
I know your sense of humor, so I feel like I know a lot about
you, right? There's more safe.
There's different, there's different forms of humor,
though. There's the, I'm, I'm telling a
joke, you know, the, the, the quick, you know, jokes that
you're talking about in response to a conversation.
I would say there's humor that comes from storytelling.
You know I'm telling a funny story or an experience of my
life. And that's where you thrive.
I think that's where I thrive. Yeah.
And then there's also there's also dark humor as well, which
is very hit or man. How do we feel about dark humor?
I I think, I think maybe there's a a time and place for it.
And I guess there's two types of dark humor.
There's dark humor that's kind of making a joke of your own
suffering in your life. And there's dark humor that's
just like making joke, jokes about things in the world
outside of yourself that are kind of maybe shouldn't joke
about that. Yeah, because if it, if it's
about myself or like if someone makes a joke about something
that they're going through, I'm not saying that's like fine, but
I'm like, well, that's what you're going through.
So like that's OK. But yeah, getting a joke like
you. Can joke about something
horrible happening in your life. Yeah, and everyone laughs at it.
But I'm not going to joke about something horrible happening
even in your life or even in like some someone else's life,
like out there, you know, or like some country that's.
I think that's the line. I can joke about my own
suffering, but you can't. I will laugh at it though.
Sometimes I think that's even hit or miss as well because you
might be going through something that's difficult and then you
make a, you know, a humor, a dark humorous joke about it.
And then it depends on your level of trust and
comfortability with the person. We're like, I don't know, should
I laugh hard at that right now or should I kind of give it a a
chuckle, a light, a light chuckle?
I, there's so many times where I make jokes to people that I
don't know well and it's, and I'm just realizing, well, that's
probably not the appropriate time and place.
We were at a wedding couple weeks ago and a guy came up to
me and he goes, Oh my gosh, your, your son is just so, so
beautiful. You know, it's just so great.
And for the listeners who may not be aware, I have two boys,
hopefully 1/3 soon, but one of them has Down syndrome.
And so this guy was obviously talking about my son with Down
syndrome. And he comes up like your son,
your son's so beautiful. You know, I just, his
condition's so wonderful. And I look at him, I was like,
oh, wait, what, what do you talk about?
I'm giving him a hard time. And he's like, oh, I, I mean,
his, yeah, his Down syndrome's like, it's, it's really
beautiful, you know? And I was like, I don't Down
syndrome. Down syndrome.
What is that? That's weird.
I don't know what you're, I don't know what you're doing.
I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.
And he just started this wedding and he was like, oh, yeah, I,
well, and I was like, I'm just messing with you.
And then I just kind of like gave him a punch and he just
didn't laugh at all and just immediately walked away.
And I was like, no, that wasn't that probably wasn't the type of
guy that I should have done that with.
Yeah, that's. Tough.
Oh, it's it was. Hilarious.
If you did it to me, I I think it's hilarious.
But it's like, you never know. Sometimes you don't know how
they're going to react. And so it's kind of a feeler of
friendship. Like if he reacted well to that,
I'm saying, hey, let's go grab a drink at the bar, Let's hang out
if he doesn't. I don't want to see him yet he
reacted poorly. Is not a bad thing, because now
it means that you know. I know where he stands on these
on. Things you don't want to, you
know, you don't want to be friends with him.
Yeah, exactly. You say.
Yeah, you, judge. And I don't know if that's dark
humor as much as it was just kind of me ribbing him a little
bit dark humor and, and kind of testing him.
Yeah. Like I what I would have loved
is him being like, Oh my gosh, that made me so uncomfortable.
That was amazing. Yeah, like that was funny, that
was. Hysterical.
So I don't know, it's a it's a good test of friendship with a
guy. Yeah.
And you got to find the line because you got to know what
he's comfortable with and what he's not.
How do you find the line early on though?
How do you find the line step? Over what you just said, Yeah,
you just kind of. Step over it.
And then you're like, Nope, that wasn't it.
Yeah, you always you always got to start light and then slowly
turn it out it. Kind of pressing, pressing the
envelope. Yeah.
Yep, Yep, Yep. I feel like you you're good at
knowing where the line is, but you're also good at being the
one out of us three to cross it most frequently.
I I think it's kind of what I just said.
Like I know when I first meet someone I try to keep it.
PG. PG But I I will if it's like,
you know, let's say one of y'all is like Ki want to meet my
buddy. They're like really funny.
You guys get along. Like if I have that Intel
beforehand, I might be willing to push things a little earlier,
you know, versus just meeting someone for the first time.
I was like, OK, I'm not going to push the envelope.
But also, for the most part, it hasn't come to bite me yet.
I feel like I have a good sense of when it's OK to cross the
line, you know, and like around who.
What about that? Didn't you give a talk at a
recruitment event for our organization where you made some
jokes that just didn't just didn't land?
Or maybe the crowd was like, I don't know about that.
This is the first time I'm here about that.
Maybe it happened. You thought you nailed it, Yeah.
I guess it's like I was 10 out of 10.
Maybe. Maybe it did, I don't know.
Maybe it was just you came off, you were really pushing people
in and maybe appropriate way. Oh, I see.
But some people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I remember.
No, it wasn't the jokes. It was.
You said some things that were designed to make people think a
little bit. Yes, and there was one person
that said that I was fear mongering by telling him to
think about things. Fear mongering.
Is that like rage baiting?
I don't know, I don't. I kind of just was like, all
right, thanks for the Super unhelpful feedback that I'm not
going to listen to. Like what does that mean?
But. That was a that was a one
individual in a room of what, like 300 people?
Yeah, like it would. You made it seem like I was just
going up there telling jokes and no one is laughing.
I gave a talk one time and I was talking about my my wife.
And I said that I was, I was using this colloquial
colloquially. And I said that when I first met
my wife, I thought she was hot. And someone came up to me after
the talk and they're like, I want to tell you, you made me
extremely uncomfortable. Then I was like, oh, OK, yeah.
What what happened? He's like, you called a woman
hot. And I am very, very
uncomfortable with that. And I was like, I'm sorry.
It was just, it was one of those things where it was like I was
used. I was saying it in a joking way,
like, Oh, yeah, You know, back when I was in college, all I
cared about was if a girl was hot or not.
That was kind of the context I was using it.
And he said he looked at me. He goes, we call French fries
hot, not women. I.
Was. Like all right.
Dude, sweet dude. Thanks.
Appreciate it. Should go get some.
Stay at McDonald's, Yeah. I think my my Speaking of that,
we have a friend who we will not name, but whenever they used to
give talks or anything like that, they always say in my
super hot wife, Do you remember this?
And I don't know if that's where you got it from.
Yeah, that, that's. I always thought it was kind of
like I, I, I never thought it was.
We like, Oh my gosh, you're calling woman hot.
It's like, whatever. It's more of just like.
It it I always told him it sounded.
It made him sound like he was a 60 year old, kind of like youth
pastor. It made it sound like he was
just he was an older dude trying to fit in with with younger
people, like hello fellow kids, you know, like I call my wife
hot. And so I always thought it was
funny and I would twist it, you know, and whenever I would give
a talk, I'd say like, there's my, my going off of different
things that are like big like words and focus, like well known
words and focus. I would say it's like, oh, and
my sober and modest wife and I would just use like different
words that were like, you know. Very did it really fat?
It had nothing to do with it. I was like, oh, there's my my
very chaste wife. I was like, what?
And it just like, you just keep going.
And that's how I think that's how you can start breaking down
the crowd. That's what I was going to say
about you that you do really well is that it's not, it's not,
it's not like you're telling jokes.
It's not like you're using dark humor.
It's, it's your, it's your, it's your mannerisms and just, I
think colloquialisms that make you feel super approachable.
It it, it shows people that you're light heart, you know.
Well, it's funny because there's kind of different types of
humor. You mentioned like you have
great storytellers and they tell stories and it's just like
you're rolling on the ground laughing because they just seem
to be able to put themselves in situations that are ridiculous.
Then you have like quick humor, people who just like play on
words or, you know, use a tone of voice that's really funny.
And then you have people that tell jokes and kind of give
people a hard time in a hilarious way.
There's like different types of humor.
Who would you say is the funniest of US 3?
Objective I think it depends between me and Clay.
I, I, I think we're all very different.
I think both of you guys are actually big storytellers and
that's how you get humor out. Oh, I got one other funny thing
some some people real quick because I think this will fit
in. Some people are just funny.
Yeah. Like they're not trying to be
funny, but they're kind of quirky and it's hysterical.
Yes, yes, yes. That would be maybe the 4th time
I would put you in that category.
I think both of you guys fall in the storytelling category and I
think sometimes you'll tell jokes.
John Michael where is like Clayton is not a joke teller.
I'm not a joke teller. You will either send that joke
you found. Try try hard.
Not a no. That's only at work.
Yeah, you know that. You tried too hard, but like,
you tend to learn more in the joke direction.
Where is it? Clayton is a pure storyteller,
you know. I agree with that.
I think I learn more in the in the quick, quick, witty.
Let me just get something out like I don't have jokes.
If you put me on the spots like tell me, make me laugh, I will.
I can't. I think the.
Thing, but if we're living life, I will see that's what I was
going to say happened. You, you do.
What great comedians do is they find little like things in life
that are funny that people don't really notice and then talk
about that and it's hysterical. But I, I feel like we're and
maybe This is why I'm not a comedian.
It's because I only, I can only do it with things that are
happening around us, like a very situational humor.
And it's only funny if you're like, when I'll give a talk and
I'll make a joke, it's like I'm reacting to what I'm seeing on
the crowd, what's happening around this.
And that's what I'll joke about. And it's funny, but I don't have
any jokes. I don't have any stories.
The hardest I've laughed in a very long time was when you guys
were over for dinner at our house and you pointed out how
weird and and odd the idea of grinding is.
Like in high school you were just like, can we just talk
about how weird that was? And I I don't know if I've ever
laughed harder in my life than than you pointing out just what
an objectively odd experience like.
Why did we do? What a strange thing to do.
Was like our first year of high school and I feel like, I don't
know if it's just the Texas thing, but everyone do it and
you just get in like a line. It's like moms.
You know, it's like your parents, teachers are like
watching from upstairs, like at homecoming.
And there's just these huge lines of people, you know, like
dancing. They were, they were telling us
when we're having that conversation, another buddy of
ours was talking about how they had A at his Catholic school.
What did they call it? the IT was like the chastity
prison or something. Yeah.
They like basically if your dress was too short you got put
in a room and they came and stapled on more cloth onto your
outfit. But then I just Jose.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys, Yeah, you probably have
staplers. No, I didn't have to wear a
shirt to school. But but they were talking
there's. The good humor right there, you
know? They were talking about how
whenever like a new person would get kicked into the room,
everyone. Would be like high.
Fiving. Oh man.
Bring back the modesty jail. So we're talking about right,
different types of humor. When is it good?
And I I think I don't know if we explicitly said it, but I would
agree if humor can be a great way to test like a group to see
if that's, you know, a group that you get along with.
Yeah, it thinks in common can also be a great way to bond as
men, especially because you you said this very explicitly
because we like shared experiences more than anything.
On the other side of the coin, we often not.
We maybe we, I do. We can use humor as a shield,
right? So it's like, when does humor
stop helping? So I think, you know, when
you're, when you're to go back to the storytelling idea, you
know, and, and the, and the, and the shared experience idea, when
you're telling a good story, You know, the, the way I think that
I tell stories is that, you know, you can take a, a normal
moment that happened in life and then you can tell it in a way
that's 100% factual and true. But you're, you're using
descriptors and exaggerators in a way.
And you're like moving your voice up and down to, I don't
know, to, to make the story more intriguing, more funny.
You're getting people to laugh, but you can also tell stories in
a way you know, where you're, again, you're doing the same
thing. You're, you're telling stories.
You're using your voice, you're lowing your voice in order to
affect, you know, an emotion of, of sadness, you know, or you
know, you might. I think Monsignor Shea is the
president at the University of Mary, speaks at her usually at
her annual conference every year.
And you know, the way that he, he tells stories in such a way
that are that are he, he's this deep voice and you're just,
you're just sucked into it immediately.
Like you, you want to hang on to every single word that he says.
And, and the point that I'm trying to make here is that, you
know, in storytelling or when you're using humor, what we're
talking about it as is we're using humor or storytelling or,
or, you know, giving a talk in front of someone as a mode of
connection with a person. Because you know, when you're
using humor in the right way, you're trying to draw someone in
and connect with them. Whereas humor can also be used
in the opposite direction where I'm going to try to make jokes
to deflect things in order to not connect with the person and
to kind of and to keep things on a surface level.
So that's what I would say. I don't know if you guys have
have seen that play out in your own life or you've seen in other
guys. What does that look like when
you're using humor as a point of deflection rather than
connection? It's all about it's all about
pain and being uncomfortable with pain.
I mean, we were, we were just talking the other day and you
know, we all have difficult things going on in our in our
lives and Clayton was making a joke out of a difficult
situation happening in his life. And it's just like, that's a
natural thing to do when you're hurting and you're just like, I
kind of want to talk about this. But at the same time, this isn't
the proper environment to fully crack this open with everyone.
But I'm, I'm identifying through this joke that there's something
there. Like, have you ever heard
someone make a joke and you're like, I kind of want to put that
in my back pocket and re ask about that in a moment.
That's maybe more intentional or private because I can tell based
on what he joked about there, there's something going on there
that I want to check in on, you know, whether it's a comment
made about a wife amongst a group of, of men.
And you're just like, oh, you know, she's always, she's always
frustrated at me. Ha, ha, ha.
And it's like, no, let's, I might circle back with that guy
afterwards. Like, hey, you know, I know you
made it. I know you said that, but I just
want to check in like, is that, is that something you really are
frustrated with? Or is that something that's just
kind of funny? So I think humor for men is our
ways of in some ways raising a flag and showing people like,
hey, this is going on. I don't really know how to talk
about this. I don't really know where to
talk about this. I don't really know what space,
but I just want to let you guys know this is happening without
totally shutting down this moment or conversation.
I would agree with that, but I also don't know if I ever
consciously thought that, you know?
I think a lot of times it's unconscious, you don't really
know what's going on in here and so just comes out as a joke.
But it's totally OK. Like, I'm also thinking of this
moment we talked about the other day.
I think it's totally fine for someone to joke about something
difficult in their life because then we we know that we are
going to address it later or that we have addressed it
already because there's that friendship there.
And I think that's also a key factor or a key difference is
when maybe there's not that friendship that I can go back
there. Kate, why did you say that?
OK, you know, that really funny joke.
What's going on? If that friendship isn't there,
that trust isn't built. I think that's when it it, it,
it does become like a harmful thing of, hey, are you
deflecting or you just, are you asking for help to connect or,
or what are you doing here? Yeah.
I think humor builds trust, trust builds relationships, and
then relationships can breed those deeper conversations.
But I I maybe would would make an argument that humor is a
absolute necessity for male friendship because it allows the
trust to be built, which allows the the connection to be built,
which allows the relationship to take place, which allows for the
deeper conversations and the the conversations of purpose and
meaning to actually find a place.
I. Think there's another aspect
here, not necessarily, you know, using humor in a, in a
conversation, but I, I was just having a, a conversation with a,
a friend of mine who, him and his wife were pregnant with
their first child and they had a, a miscarriage at, at 24
weeks, which is a really traumatic experience.
You know, for the woman, she has to, you know, birth the
stillborn baby and, you know, all sorts of emotions come, come
with that as well. And so I was having a long
conversation with him on the phone the other day and just
kind of checking in and seeing how he's doing.
And, you know, they, they obviously have, you know, gone
through immense grief, you know, so much excitement to welcome
their, their first, their first child into the, into the world.
You know, thankfully his wife has been able to, to get leave
from, from work for about, you know, 10 weeks or so.
So she has some time off. But I was asking him, you know,
what are you doing to like, what are you doing to, to cope with,
with all that? He's like, well, you know, the
baby was going to be do this in in February and you know,
they're going to go on a they're going on a ski trip to take
their mind off and just have a good time with one another.
He's like, you know, there's, there's nights where we're
eating ice cream and we're crying and there's also nights
where we're watching the office and we're just, and we're just
laughing with one another, you know.
And so I think another aspect of, of being a, being a humorous
person, being able to add humor into a conversation is that it's
a point of relief for some people that are going through
difficult things as well as like, Hey, I can, I can come up
to someone and I know they're going through a lot and I want
to connect with them in that space.
But it's also probably going to be good for me in some ways as
well to, to, to, to laugh at the same time.
How can I bring them out of that to an extent?
And, you know, get them to giggle a little bit, have a good
time, smile a good giggle. You know everyone needs a good
giggle every now and again. I hope that no one ever listens
to my laugh and be. Like that was a gig, was a cute
giggle. How's the thing?
I mean, yes, I, I agree 100% with what both of you all said.
And maybe I'm about to say the same thing just in different
words, but I'm like, sometimes it's just feels good to laugh.
That's all there is to it, you know.
Amen, Jose. And it's like, yeah, I like,
like Clayton, you and I talk on the phone a lot.
And most of the time we're giggling.
After we after we hang up, me, my wife will ask me.
He's like, hey, what did what did you guys talk about?
I was like, I don't know. You just giggled 35 minutes and
that's it. It's like, how are they doing?
I'm like, I have no clue. No.
Idea. What's going on with the kids?
I don't couldn't tell. You who didn't ask?
Are they, are they moving up? I don't know.
That's such a relatable experience of like, you hang out
with a group of guys and your wife's like, so how's everybody?
What, how's their marriage? How's their no, we talked about
football for 25 minutes and then we talked about our, you know,
bathroom issues for the next 30 and that was it.
Then I had the time of my life. We were, we were laughing.
I, I think it was with you recently because we, we saw this
tweet that someone sent us of like, yeah, just went on a boys
trip. Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just went on a boys trip with,
with all my guy friends in. I came home and my mom, my wife
asked me like, oh, how was it? How, how is everyone doing, how
their wives have the kids, like, oh, I don't know.
And the wife's like, what would you talk about?
Well, we spent three days drafting which countries we
would take over first if we were dictators and how we take over
the world. It's like, what is going on over
there? It's so, yeah.
But laughter, you just laugh all the time.
What I would say that I tend to exaggerate some things in
storytelling. Something I would like to work
on, something I am working on. However, I do think that
sometimes the truth can get in the way of a good story.
What is the balance between exaggeration and humor and just
flat out that wasn't even true? I, I have a thought on this
because the, the thing that you are a culprit of in storytelling
is, is not just exaggerating things, it's inflating specific
numbers. Yes.
Like there was 700 people, there were 700 people there.
We were playing basketball, was on fire, had 36 points, you
know, over over 2 games. As well, it's like maybe there
was 20 people and you have like 12 points.
But but in my head, the moment was so big that there were 700.
People, yes, yeah. So I think, I think in in my
mind, the balance is like, OK, I don't want to lie, you know, but
you want to use, I don't know how to describe it really.
You want to use it's theatrical, it's theatrical.
You want to use descriptors of how intense or amazing or.
Funny, awkward. Seven 250 lbs covered in tats.
In reality, six 181. Tattoo.
One tattoo. Yeah.
No. But I, I I.
But that's how you felt in the moment.
Like in a moment, though, you're like.
I don't know what that story, I just I just have a problem with
reality. I just need glasses.
But I'm also thinking like, at least amongst us, right?
I feel so comfortable exaggerating because I know that
whenever you guys tell me story, it's also exaggerating, you
know? But I know that and I know that
you know that too. I know that when I tell you
like, dude, I just went to this place and I had 15 people
recognize me because of this podcast.
We both know that when I said that I met two people, Max.
We should have like, like for every story that's.
The way it felt to you. For every story, it's like every
number needs to be divided by three.
At least. Yes, 5. 10 Depends on the
probably depends on the story, depends on the context.
What's on the context? There's some details, though,
that you just need to like. Our favorite story at One of our
favorite stories of all time is the famous chicken nugget story.
And, and I'm not going to get into the details, but one of the
parts of the chicken nugget story is that the fry cook
turned around and there was a burger Patty floating in midair
that the whole world just stopped and the burger Patty was
just in midair. Obviously that's an
exaggeration. But you're, but you're
describing the feeling that was in the room, which is that
everybody you're building. Suspense.
Everybody in the room stopped and looked at what was going on
in this McDonald's at a certain time as part of the story.
And so that the burger floating in midair, everyone knows it
didn't happen. But you're painting the picture
of, you know, everything. You know the the room was frozen
at what was going on. When do you know and you know,
kind of similar to what you guys are saying with exaggeration,
right? When do you know when it's time
to stop the exaggerating, right? And to start kind of being a
little more real, similar to what we're saying when we're you
and I specifically huge culprits of this where we'll just talk on
the phone 3-4 times a week, but we don't talk about anything.
Is there a line? Where is the line?
When do you when do you know when to stop and when to be
real? I've never felt uncomfortable,
like I've always felt more than comfortable enough to.
If I need to talk to you about something, I can, right?
But then we never do. Well, there's there's a time and
place there's. I was thinking of this song.
It's called Breathe in the Same Air.
A friend of mine sent it to me. You know, probably a year.
Ago. Give us some.
Lines, I'm not going to sing it right now, but one of the lines
in the yeah, I don't want to get flagged because it sounds a lot
like the real Yeah, because it like they could think that I'm
actually playing it into the microphone and I don't want to
get us in trouble. But there's a line in there
where the artist says it's part of the chorus.
He says sometimes breathe in the same air has got to be enough.
And what he's talking about is like you.
Got deep on us. Well, what he's what he's
talking about is just like, yeah, there's, there's, there's
a time place to have those, you know, deep conversations that
you want to have with friends. But sometimes, you know, in the
in the picture that he's painting within the song is he's
at a bar with some friends. They're watching a football
game. There's difficult things that
are happening in life. They're not talking to one
another. They're just sitting shoulder to
shoulder drinking a beer and watching the football game.
And sometimes breeding the same air has got to be enough, you
know, And I think for for us, there's Jose, I would say, I
mean, we talk frequently and I think there's times where, you
know, we do get into things with each other.
But for the most part, like when I'm calling you and like I'm not
calling you for any particular reason, you know, I'm not
calling you to to ask about something or to tell you
something. I'm just calling to, you know,
to laugh, to just, yeah, just to laugh just like hear your voice
and and chit chat for a little bit, you know, appreciate that
because I love you and you're a good man.
Big dog, appreciate that. I love you.
Too big dog G. But great, that's for our
specific relationship, but just in general, you know, like.
What's the line? Is that what you said?
We have some, we might have some listeners that are like too.
I do that and like, sometimes I feel like I don't really connect
with my friends because all we do is just giggle, right?
All we do is just laugh about things.
Which right to to to a point it's OK, but where's the line?
I think if if you feel incapable of having a serious conversation
with the men in your life, that's the line, that's it.
Or, or you're worried the worst. The worst feeling is when you're
worried that if you bring up something serious, that
someone's going to make a joke about you.
So like, hey, you know, can I, can we talk about this And you
start sharing something and then I just start ribbing you and
it's like, that's when you should know.
All right, we've crossed the line.
We're incapable of actually having fruitful and faithful
discussions about serious things in our lives without something
real, without, without humor taking a part of it.
I was in AI was a groomsman in a wedding.
And you know, I, I'm a great person to have in your wedding
because, you know, I'll be very comfortable with all the random
brothers and sisters and aunts and uncles at the wedding who
nobody else knows. But it I always get absolutely,
you know, hurt by the people they set me up with to walk down
the aisle. It's always like, all right, we
have a crazy cousin who's, you know, it's.
Always. They always set him up with me
because they're like, all right, well, at least John Michael will
talk to them. So I go to this wedding, I get
set up with not one, but two divorced women look to walk
down. One was 40, the other was 37.
And both of them had back tattoos.
I'll just just put it that way. And they set them up with me.
And I was like, you did me dirty.
You put me with the divorced women.
This is one of those things where he's exaggerating.
No, yeah. It was like 1 girl that's never
been married. The other thing that he did, he
said, and they both had back tattoos.
It was like that was the detail that maybe you didn't really
need to say, but you're trying to tell us something.
Picture about who they were is. About them?
Anyways. Maybe one of them had a fish on
their ankle, you know? It was a full tiger on their
back from shoulder to shoulder. And when they stood next to each
other, it's actually one big tattoo.
It was one big tattoo. All right, so anyways, it was
the flower girl if we're being honest that's true.
But we're walking or before the wedding, one of them looks at
the bride and they're like, you know, last time I walked down
the aisle, it was to my ex-husband as we're walk.
Like, what do you say to that? That's what I mean.
I was just like, and they were everyone was laughing.
And it was like, that's not, that's not funny.
Yeah, it's not funny. I didn't.
Have one in your back pocket to to reply to that in the moment.
I'd say nice back that too. Ex-husband hardly know it.
Oh man, it was a long walk down the aisle, let me tell you that.
Yeah. So you were like this two.
OK, so let me let me ask you another question.
You said they both had back tattoos and in my mind what I
visualize is their entire back. Is tattooed.
It wasn't like that. Yeah, it wasn't like that, was
it? No, but that's the picture that
you're trying to give us. I said back tattoos.
Yeah, but you know, what does that mean?
Your head? Can you tell us what they
actually had that tell us the truth of what the tattoos
actually were? Look, I was trying not to.
I was trying not to focus too much on their bare skin, OK?
I don't remember. Did you have a point?
Here's here's here's I think. The point, I think the point
was. Like, I like this story, but
what were we talking about? I was trying to give a real life
example of the value of exaggeration and storytelling.
Yes. Well, one, one thing this is
this is one of my one of my last thoughts here is just that one
thing that you also do I think of the way that you you share
your testimony. Actually, I have two thoughts
here. One, when you talk about your
testimony, you talk about how you went to there.
There's a mentor in your life that you had a conversation with
at a, at a smash burger on campus.
And when you always tell the story, you say, we went in, he
bought me a double bacon cheeseburger with sweet potato
fries and A and a chocolate shake.
You know, and it's like when you're telling your testimony
of, of your conversion to Jesus Christ, that's not really
something that you need to know, but it's part of your it's part
of your storytelling. But here's another thing, John
Michael, that that both of us are culprits of and in our
storytelling. One time you were sharing your
testimony and without realizing it.
I told someone else's testimony. My testimony and my jaw was on
the floor. Feel like wait a minute?
You don't even know the truth of how your conversion came about
anymore. It's all blending together.
What about the time that can you tell a story about when you told
your testimony, but you actually just told the story of The Lion
King instead? Well, I was sitting with a group
of friends and we were sharing. It was a moment.
We were sharing all of our testimonies together.
And to be honest, I, I, I couldn't really tell you the
storyline of the entire Lion King right now.
It's been a long time. But what I, what I started
sharing was that my father was, when I was growing up, he was a
great landowner. And this is like 3 or 4 people
have shared their testimonies. And like people are.
Crying, you know, and I started telling I was like, yeah, you
know, my growing up, my father was a great landowner.
And, you know, when I was raised in the family, you know, it was
kind of always a thing of like one day I would be able to in,
in inherit the land. And, you know, this is a big,
you know, kind of a, a family thing that that was going on.
But my uncle was really jealous of my father.
And it's a terrible situation, but one day we were, you know,
we were going out towards the land.
And my uncle actually, he, he, he threw, he threw my father
into a pack of wildebeest and my father died.
And so he's doing this, He's doing this and he doesn't break
character the whole. Time.
Here we go. He's like And then my dad was
run over by a pack of wildebeest.
And I was like. Well, at that point I had, I
had, I had LED up to that point so much where like, you could
feel the tension in the room, you know, And then when I said
wildebeest, there's one particular person that kind of
like snapped out of it. What are you doing?
It's the plot of The Lion King. So, you know, a good humor.
Yeah. And then I jumped into my real
testimony after that and told John Michaels, Oh.
Man, that was a fun. We used to do that where we
people would ask for our testimonies and we and we would
just share movie plot lines and yeah, figure out if they could.
Figure it out. Yeah, that is funny.
It's also funny. I feel like we all do this.
But depending on what mood you grabbed me in when you asked me
to tell you about my life, like my testimony, I will tell you a
different story. And they're all true.
They're all like real things, true, but they're just like,
different. Aspects.
Different nuances you. Know this, this story is more
about how difficult it was for my family to move to a different
country. This one is more about my time
in college and like how I struggle with these things.
And this one is more about how all these other parts of my life
and it's just like, like I've had friends and I was like, how,
how many personalities do you have under there?
You know, there's a lot of testimonies.
It's funny because like in different, different stages of
your life, like if I ask you for your testimony right now, you
may talk about the last, you know, maybe six to seven years.
Yeah. But I think when, when you look
back at times of your life, like there's different, there's
different things that have happened that are powerful in
each season of your life. So, you know, when I was in
college, I talked about what happened in high school, when I
was in post grad, right after I talked about what happened in
college. And, and now it's like my
testimony would be more like what God's done in the last
seven years of my life as a, as a dad, as a husband, because
that that story's closer to home.
I think 1 great practical here to close us is you know you're
asking you ask a. Question when you get your pen
going well. That's why, that's why I do pen
and paper. You guys are all digital, but
there's something about, you know, right here, analog ink,
something about ink on paper, big ink you are.
This plant from big You got pens, You got ink on your paper,
you guys. See, you're using humor to
deflect away from the intentional point that I'm
trying to make to our listeners back home that are really
curious about what I'm about to say.
So I'm trying to be an intention.
Made it this far. 45 minutes and we haven't made a point yet.
But here's The thing is, you know, if you know, how do you,
how do you know it's, it's gone too far?
Is you should probably take, you know, maybe I would suggest
maybe 2 to 4 weeks and, and, and just kind of examine the
relationships that, that you have in your life.
And like, OK, have I had a serious conversation with this
person? Have I not?
Has it has it been because of this person or has it been
because of, because of me? And honestly, you know, whether
it's like a group of friends or a particular friendship that you
have, just call it out. Just approach the group or
approach the friend and be able to say, here's what you know,
over the I've, I've been thinking about this and over the
last couple weeks, I've kind of realized that we spend most of
our time joking around with one another, You know, and I want to
be able to have, I, I love her joking around and I love her
humor, but I want to be able to have serious conversations.
And if you can do that, hopefully that's a stepping
stone. If you're, if you're leaning
towards too humorous to, you know, at least have clarity in
the group of like, Hey, we want to get deeper with one another.
And this is a pattern that we have in our friendships.
For sure. I love them.
Thanks for sharing, Clayton. Yeah, I, I think as we close
out, just to summarize, humor is a wonderful thing.
It's a gift that can help, you know, men bond and, like, really
help them through hard seasons in their lives.
But it wasn't meant to carry things on its own just by humor,
right? You, you still need connection.
We still need real relationship with other people.
Knowing when to laugh and when to be honest is part of growing
up. Knowing how to do both is part
of growing up, so if this episode hit close to home or if
it makes you think of any friend that you like to giggle with, go
ahead and send this to them. Make sure you're following us or
subscribe. Make sure you like this video.
This is the All In podcast. We'll see you next week.