So here's the deal, there is a lot of talk going on right now
about this idea of hustle culture.
What does it actually mean? Does it mean that if you're not
tired that you're actually living life right?
Well, here at the All In podcast, we might think a little
bit differently. We don't highlight burnout.
Honestly, we're going to try to avoid it and that's what we're
going to dive in here. My name is John Michael Lucido.
These are my 2 guests, Clayton, Jose and this is the All In
podcast. You're going to want to be here
so grab a coke 0, find somewhere cozy and lock in.
Let's hustle. All right fellas, so we're
talking about hustle culture today.
First thing when you think of hustle culture, go first thought
in your mind. 4:00 AM. Wake up at 4:00.
Wake up at 4, OK? Rise and grind.
I think Kobe, Kobe Bryant. You think he was up at 4:00 one
time. You think Kobe woke up.
He had his whole. Schedule, right?
You might know this better than me, but he had like a whole
schedule where he would, he would sleep, he would break his
day down into four different days, I think, or something like
that. And he would like sleep two
hours, wake up, workout, eat. Asleep.
Practice. I'm going to sleep in for four
hours like. Something.
Like I had a friend who died in college and it did not.
That's not the way the body is. Yeah, that's.
Because he's not Kobe Bryant. I don't think Kobe Bryant's body
I. Don't think Kobe actually did
that, but the story that I was thinking about with Kobe is that
I guess it might have been the 2008 Olympics or something like
that. And all of the, the, the rest of
the team, you know, they were, they had a week long break or
whatever. They all went out to the bars,
the casinos, whatever it was, Kobe.
Kobe stayed back. And the rest of the team was
rolling back into the hotel at like, you know, at 4:00 in the
morning. And he's in the gym and they see
Kobe coming back from the gym with the he's just drenched in
sweat with a towel around his neck.
And that's when they all realized like, Oh my gosh, he's
this. Is Olympians.
These are Olympians. These are Olympians and they're
the ones saying this guy's. Built.
I don't work hard enough, yeah. When I when I think of hustle
culture, I think of guys invests.
Finance pros. Yeah, Finance pros, have you
heard of, have you heard of finance slop?
Have you heard this term? No, no.
So my brother is a faithful listener to the podcast.
Shout out Luke. Glad you're here.
He works in in, you know, corporate America, does sales
for a pharmaceutical company. And I was just hanging out with
him and he was telling me about finance slop.
And I was like, yeah, what? I'm so interested.
Like tell me about that. And he's like, now there's a
whole term to describe like Chipotle bowls, cava bowls, like
any of those like bowl based lunch places that it's just like
rice meat, you know, queso, whatever.
And now it's this whole term that they're just being called
finance slop because all of these vested finance Bros are
ordering, you know, 30 Chipotle bowls.
And it's just, it's just finance slop.
You're just eating a bowl of slop for lunch.
The finance slop is the food. It's the food.
It's like a term to describe like a Chipotle.
Bowl, for example. Wow.
So it was hilarious. You know, I just, I just read an
article that Kurt Signetti gets the same Chipotle bowl order
every single day and he has an intern pick it up and the
interns favorite perk of the job is that he gets to keep all the
Chipotle points. It's a directive 64,000 Chipotle
points from getting Kurt Sicknetti's.
I don't know what he gets. Probably double chicken.
He he gets, yeah, it's some sort of bowl.
I mean, a lot of a lot of high performers are famous for eating
the same things everyday. So Clayton, you recommended a
great book to me, Leadership Secrets of Nick Saban.
And it goes through his diet every morning, cup of black
coffee, 2 Little Debbie oatmeal cream pies for lunch, salad with
chopped up Turkey, like, but like lunch meat Turkey, That's
it. And then dinner obviously was
probably, you know, with recruits or yeah, whatever,
whatever. Miss Miss Terry Scott.
So there there's something about hustle culture that values that
like super regimented way of life.
Like I have such decision fatigue that I only have six of
the exact same shirt, six of the exact same pants, and six pairs
of underwear because I can't stand the decision in the
morning of what to wear. So when you're thinking of
hustle culture, do you think our world glorifies that right now?
Or do you think that they look at it as a as a cringe or a
meme? I think it's definitely
glorified. It's like the busyness culture,
I guess. You remember in college, you
know how it felt at times it felt like everyone was trying to
out busy each other. Oh.
I remember that very well. I think that's the same thing,
no, like the hustle culture of like, however busy I am, that's
how like, successful I am or how hard working.
I don't know, but you know, yeah.
You think you think busyness is a packed schedule?
Or do you think busyness is a lot of responsibilities?
That's a good question. I think, I mean, I think those
go, they can go hand in hand, but they don't always go hand in
hand necessarily. I think people probably busy
themselves way more than actually their responsibilities
require of them. I think that could be true,
yeah. I think the I, I'm on a kick
right now. You guys know the all in
podcast. We are, we go on these kicks
for, you know, a week or two at a time.
And it's it's about the book, the anxious generation and it's
about the phone based childhood and what technology has done to
our brain pathways. But I think what's added to the
hustle culture is having to be fully available and having
access to e-mail and work related communication on your
telephone. Sorry, I've been reading too
much anxious generation on your cell phone, on your smartphone
at all times. Because now you may look like a
bad employee if you don't reply all to that e-mail at 8:00 PM.
You're going to look like the guy who just doesn't care if you
haven't answered that e-mail that your boss sent at 7:00 PM
by the time that you show up to work the next morning at 8:00
AM. And I think that's costing a lot
of people because they feel like I'm getting behind if I'm not
checking my e-mail on Saturdays and Sundays.
I'm getting behind if I haven't prepared my Monday work day on
Sunday evening so that when I get to work on Monday, I'm ready
to go. What?
How do you draw boundaries there in a in a culture that says you
get ahead if you're always available?
Because men need promotion. They need, you know, they need
to get more responsibilities at work, but at what cost?
This is you might have to help me with my thoughts here because
I'm trying to say something but I don't entirely know what I'm
trying to say at the same time. That describes this podcast in a
sentence. I just don't really think that
people know what's required of them and their roles all the
time. Yes, I think that in our in, in,
in work or in, in family life, we tend to react to things
rather than, you know, set priorities that, that drive
specific, specific outcomes. And so for me, like when I, the,
the way that I, I, I work at home is I have a very particular
work day startup routine and it goes like this.
I, I keep my, I keep my e-mail at inbox zero.
OK, so you're one of those, I'm one of those, I'm one of those.
So every morning we go through quickly delete, you know, the
the morning brew or whatever other, you know, I'll look
through it briefly, whatever it is, identify like the actual
things that are coming through the e-mail that I need to take
action on. And then I'll add those to my
task manager To Do List. And then I'll use To Do List to,
to kind of see everything that I need to get done that day.
I'll check Microsoft Teams, see if there's any messages that I
missed and, and try to capture those and put them in to do so
that I can kind of start my day. Like here's all of the things
that that I need to do. But one of the things that, that
I've, I think that I've struggled with is that often
times there's like all these things that pop into my mind of
like, oh, I need to do this, I need to do this, I need to do
this, I need to do this. And then I just plug them into
my To Do List and then I'll open it up and I've got all of these
things that I need to do. And I don't really know which
ones are a priority. And a lot of them are just
reactions to, you know, something, something that popped
up. And it keeps me from actually
sitting back and asking myself, you know, where am I right now?
What are my goals and what do what things do I need to set for
myself in order to get there? And so then your work just ends
up becoming, you know, a series of responses throughout the day
that that end up becoming endless.
And then you have decision fatigue and, you know, makes
life harder. So.
I think that is brilliant and I, I think you're exactly right
that that's where a lot of employees are at in their
workflow is they're just responding all the time.
They're not taking any time to creatively think.
They're not taking any time to actually like vision cast, not
just like years in the future, not even months in the future,
but just for that day, like all right, today.
What are things I need to get done instead of responding to
whatever urgent issues come up in my work day?
Do you think that like the invention of work based
communication platforms, so like Teams, Slack are there, I don't
know if there's Teams in Slack are the two I'm most familiar
with. I think that's added to hustle
culture a little bit. It used to just be e-mail.
Yeah. But for us now it's you got 6
emails, you got 52 Teams messages coming in.
And are any of those actually moving the needle forward for
your job? Yeah, I I guess when you say
that my first, I was like, oh, I feel like those, what would you
call them? Work based communication.
Platforms, platforms, mediums
like, if anything, they they kind of help separate and like
create more boundaries. You think so?
I don't. Agree.
That was my that was my initial thought of like, oh, that way
that people aren't texting you or people aren't this or people
aren't that. And I see that in my current job
where I'll have a lot of people text me about work.
Yeah, I hate that. And I just like, ignore it if it
doesn't come to teams. Like I don't really.
I obviously I'll eventually get to it, but at 5 PMI kind of
stopped checking teams. And I've had managers before,
like recently tell me like how you need to be checking teams
several times. Like, no, I don't.
And that's a whole different point where like, I think
sometimes most people take themselves too seriously and
their work too seriously. But that was my initial thought.
But then when he said that too, of like, well, before Teams,
before Slack, it was just e-mail.
Now I'm thinking like, OK then yeah, I guess Team Slack has
made a lot easier to just send random stuff that like.
Because if you, if you think about the workplace before these
instant messaging platforms, let's say it's 7:00 PM and you
know, as we all do, you put the kids down, your mind start to
wonder a little bit thinking about your work day tomorrow.
Oh, boom, I got to I got to take care of this.
Previously that would have had to be a phone call, right?
Hey, I'm, I'm going to call you about this thing.
But oh, it's seven PMI don't want to bother you.
I'm not going to call. I'll wait till tomorrow till
we're at work. Now you just shoot him a team's
message so that you can get it off your chest and make it
somebody else's problem. And that that doesn't help
because now you're creating this world in which that cycle of
constantly sending your problems to somebody else for them to
solve, nothing ever gets done because then they message
somebody else and then that person message to somebody else.
And now it's 9:00 PM and you've created a five Teams message
thread over your little tiny issue that came to your head at
7:00 PM. So I think it's hurt.
I would, I would agree. And there's, you know, Cal
Newport, we read, you know, I've read Deep Work, one of his
books, and then what's the other one?
Digital. Minimalism.
Digital, digital minimalism. And one of the recommendations
there is like, hey, you know, these, these tools are tools and
they're meant to be used as tools, which is they're there to
help you. But the problem is that they
begin to hinder you rather than help you when you're, when
you're on them all the time. And so he makes these
recommendations of like, you know, you should, when your
notification should be off, you know, you shouldn't, you know,
you shouldn't keep your e-mail open and just constantly be
checking it throughout the day. Well, that's, that's something
that I'm totally guilty of. You know, it's like, I'll just
go refresh and see if kind of anything, you know, popped up
there. And the recommendation is like,
Hey, have like a, you know, an hour scheduled in or 30 minutes
post lunch, whatever it is to kind of respond to the things
that came in and then go back into, go back into a, a, a deep
work block. But I, I think what I've felt
and then I think also what I've observed as well is just that
those quick communication things that that's just what people
think that their work, their work is, that's what my work is.
And so then they, if you're, if you're only going to check it
during certain times, then it's like, well, what, what do I do
in these, in these other times? You know, it's like, well, you
know, you need to have your own sense of, of agency and a great
understanding of what are you trying to accomplish?
What are you prioritizing? And that's, I think it just, you
know, people would rather just respond to all the things that
come in rather than have to, you know, think for themselves and
ask, you know, I'm in this role. I know what needs to be done.
Let me sit back and think creatively about what I can do
in this, you know, in the two hour block that I have next
Thursday in order to push that forward.
And just, you're just never getting to that point, 'cause
you're in a, a cycle of endless communication.
You know, and we can, we can look back at the, you know, at
the glory days of, you know, pre Internet, pre e-mail, Oh my
gosh, that, you know, that would have been so much better.
But that's not a reality. We actually have to think for
ourselves. You know, what do I need to do
in order to create that space for my life so that I can
actually be a productive employee and not someone that's
just putting out fires all day, you know, every day?
One thing that's helped me with this actually came out of this
podcast, so can't remember what episode it was.
We have to go back and look, but we had a conversation about the
brick device. Yeah.
And Clayton was was informing us on the brick device.
So right after the podcast, I purchased one and I've already
used all my emergency on bricks, which Clayton explained in the
episode. But I have it set to where at
5:30 PM mountain time, the brick turns off my Outlook and Teams
on my phone. And that has been so helpful
because it it cuts notifications, obviously, but it
also just takes away the ability to open those apps until the
next morning at 8:00 AM. And I honestly, I should
probably even push it back to maybe 8:30 so I can get the day
started without those things. And it's just been super
helpful. So shout out Brick.
Not sponsored but could be. We are interested but very
helpful and and cool to see the podcast actually helping people
even it's just me. Well, I, I, I, I think you know,
John Michael, I have to, when I use the brick, I have to not
only disallow, you know, Microsoft Teams and Outlook and
e-mail, but I have to do the Internet as well.
And Jose, I think you're probably someone that can, can
relate to this as well. I think you're like me.
And this is that, you know, I have to, I have to disable the,
the web browser on my phone as well, because I'm one of those
people where I just think of something in my head.
My God, I wonder, you know, I, I wonder.
How tall is Fernando Civil? War, you know, and so then I'll
start Googling it, you know, and I'm, I'm 5 Wikipedia pages.
I'm, I'm, I'm downstairs with my family, post post work.
We're getting ready for dinner and playing baseball with my
kids. And I'm like, how many people
died in the Civil War? Because I'm just so curious, you
know, And it's, it's like I can't, I can't, I can't tame
that in my mind. One of the worst things for me
for that specific thing was Chad GBT.
Yes, for sure. I have to disable check GPT as
well, yeah. The the hustle culture has
certainly created this kind of need to to be on to be
available. I also think it's created a
badge of honor for people. That is the word tired.
So if you're not tired, you're doing something wrong.
I go, how are you doing? Tired, you know, crammed, just
slammed at work, just being destroyed by work.
And and that's kind of seen as a how you're you're doing things
right. Yeah, you're exhausted.
Oh, how how was work today? What a day.
And and that has become kind of something to lean on, to show to
to virtue signal to everyone that I take my work very
seriously. I'm I'm exhausted after today.
It's funny because when whenever I hear someone talk about their
job a lot like that, they was just what a day, My first
thought is always like, you're probably not cut out for that
job, you know? But it's like, yeah, people use
like a wait to show like, yeah, I'm doing really important
things. Whereas it can come off as like,
maybe hair. You should take a different job.
How do you think that We're tired is being weaponized?
Can you? Can you use it in a sentence?
What does that mean? I'm weaponizing my who's?
Weaponizing the word tired. Big, big, tired, big tired.
Big beds, big sleep. It's 88 sleep.
OK, honestly, that's that's another thing is I mean sleep
culture. You could, you could throw in
there as well of, you know, if you're going to, it's like it's
a whole thing. It's there's so many, you know,
you've got the, the pre made, you know, factor meals and
you've got, you know, wearing the same T-shirt everyday and
you've got. And then now a big thing is, you
know, everything that you can do surrounding your sleep so you
that you can optimize your sleep so that you can that you can
perform the next day, you know. So yeah, you're not tired.
So you're not? Yes, you're not.
You're not. But I do also feel like people
at least maybe not as much now, but I do feel like people would
brag about how little sleep they got going back to like the tired
of the hustleness of like, yeah, well, I only got 5 hours of
sleep last night and it's like, all right dude.
Like you want me to high five you for being irresponsible?
It's funny because you know one of one of my patrons is Saint
Jose Maria Escriba. Escriba has has I had.
What would be the proper pronunciation?
I don't know because it depends on the accents on it.
I don't know if there are any accents on it, but.
Someone who's named after this saying, I thought.
In Spanish I'd say escriba. Escriba but his, you know, his
whole path of sanctity is, is about sanctifying your work.
And and he talks about how it which which I've touched on in
previous podcast, but just that your work is an ability to kind
of cast a net in your workplace by your excellence to gain
respect from people. He's not talking about it in a
prideful way. He's just saying it as a point.
If you want to be someone that's trusted so that when you have
the opportunity to share the gospel, you have the authority
to do it. And I wonder if if more people
could could use the influence of their faith in their work.
I just think about our Lord and and you know, his work of the
the sanctifying and salvation of souls in his ministry.
You can imagine he was so tired. The dude was non-stop.
If there was a morning routine that should be caught on
YouTube, it was our Lord's. He's up early, finding a place
alone to pray. Probably.
Done. His face in the Jordan River,
you know. Yeah, who needs Saratoga Blue
ice? Water when the ice bath was S
Beth. But you just imagine him waking
up, spending time with our Lord and then probably getting the
boys up. You got to assume assume the
apostles. Probably we're we're sleeping in
a bit. Teenagers get getting breakfast
going. Maybe it's it's fish and bread.
But he's the perfect image of what a a true hustle culture is,
which is to spend your life for those around you.
And so hustle culture in terminology, I think culturally
is used to identify someone who is gaining the glory for
themselves and for their career and maybe for their finances
under the guise of supporting their family.
But that if we were to sanctify hustle culture and and make it
Catholic again, we would say that that true hustle culture is
the spending of oneself for those around you.
And I think that's a way for us to take back that idea of work
ethic and baptize it in the Catholic imaginative vision.
I felt really good by the way. Your monologue, yeah.
Did did you answer the question of who was weaponizing
tiredness? That was that was my attempt to
get us away from that and to get us onto a great monologue, which
I think I give it a 10 out of 10.
Yeah, that. Was that was good?
Clayton 10 out of 10, yeah. That was good.
Good. I appreciate.
It harsh, harsh crowd. I think, I think ultimately what
you're, what you're saying is just that Jesus had a had a
direction for his life and he was, he was, you know,
constantly, you know, spending himself in accordance with with
that, with that vision. And I think that, you know what
one of the things that we're saying about hustle culture is
that people don't even really know what they're hustling for.
Yes. Could it be that a, a
hyperactivity in the workplace is needed at certain seasons?
And so it would be like, OK, that's OK for this season, but
after that, you should probably quiet down.
And then maybe there's another season where you need to lean in
a little heavier. Could it be seasonal?
And are we OK with that? I don't know if if I feel like
we might be talking about two different things or if we can
get confused talking about two different things.
Because hustling to to be good at your job and to be excellent
is one thing, but overworking yourself in that type of
hustling is a different thing. Obviously we know that like
excellent should not be seasonal, right?
We should always strive to be excellent.
We talk about, like, busyness, yeah, maybe that's more of a
seasonal thing where it's OK if it is seasonal, but at no point
should we stop trying to be good at our job, to be excellent at
our job. That should always be something
that we strive for. But for what, Right.
And I don't know if hasn't Ray Scruba gets into this, but like,
why are we trying to be excellent at our job to get
promoted or, you know, what did you say earlier to to gain the
respect in? That yeah, I, I think for Saint
Husse and Maria, that's probably secondary.
What's primary in excellence is that God has ordained you to do
this job in this season. And by that mere fact alone that
you should be excellent out of praise and reverence of God,
He's given you a responsibility. And when God gives you a
responsibility, the only proper response is to do it with
excellence. So that would be primary for
Him. The secondary would be to gain
the admiration, not in a prideful way, but for the glory
of God of those around you. It's like, yeah, I, you know,
when in your great the great monologue by John Michael couple
minutes ago, one of the things you said was like Jesus puzzles,
right? I I'm honestly, I'm lost.
Maybe 1 migrated model? Sorry, keep.
Going But I'm like, yeah, what hustling For me, when I think of
hustling, what it should be is I am fully present to the things
in front of me that the Lord is putting in my life, and I'm
excellent in all those things. That's what real hustling is, or
at least that's what I think it should be.
Maybe I'm wrong versus I need to make myself as busy as possible
so that other people can respect me and think that I do a good
job. Now, often times in being
excellent at my job, other people will think I'm good at my
job and that's nice when it crosses over.
But what it should be is again, I'm doing everything I can to be
present and excellent to the things in front of me.
And at 5:00 PM, that's not Microsoft Teams.
At 4:00 PM, maybe at 4:30, probably not.
And at 5, definitely not. At 5, it's, and I, I, this is
something I've tried to get better at.
If like right at 5 or if I don't have any more meetings or Teams
messages coming through, I'm going to close my computer.
I'm going to go be with my wife and kid, you know, because
that's what's in front of me. That's what the Lord has put in
front of me. And that's what I want to be
excellent. And that's what I want to hustle
towards. Now.
I don't want to create another great monologue that that's kind
of what I was thinking of, like the difference between those two
things and why, Yeah, we should always be excellent.
That doesn't mean we always have to be busy.
I think that's a great monologue.
Yeah, I think you hit it. The sequel.
Monologue Part 2 I think a great litmus test would be.
Give us your monologue. Come.
On you're out here we go mic, mic check all right here we go
No, I think I think a great you know test would just be is there
is there room for is there room for leisure in your life?
And, you know, we have these, we have these particular, you know,
rules of like, oh, I'm going to turn, you know, in order for me
to, you know, not have hustle culture, I need to turn this off
then and this off then. It's like, yeah, the like we, we
do those things because ultimately what I'm trying to
createspace for is I'm trying to createspace for leisure because
leisure is an end in and of itself.
Leisure is a good thing. Leisure is a part of my
humanity. It's the place where I, I find,
you know, rest and, and, and restoration.
And it's not, it's not, you know, opposite of work in a
sense. Or it's like it's, it's not for
the sake of just serving my, my work.
It's because it is, it's something that I am, you know,
part of what I'm created for is to, is to rest in God and to
find, you know, rest in my identity and rest in my family
life. And I want to create a space for
that in my life. And so one of the things I've
done recently, as I was looking at, you know, the next 90 days
and I'm mapping out like, OK, these are, these are my, these
are my goals over, over the course of, over the course, next
the, over the course of the next 90 days.
And then looking through and being like, OK, like, you know,
what are my, what are my days of, what are my days of rest and
start going through encircling, you know, each, each Sunday, OK,
like each Sunday is going to be a Sabbath.
That is, that is going to be a day where I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,
I'm not working and I'm not available to work, not because
I'm not trying to be excellent, but because Sunday is a day
created by God for me to, to rest, you know, and then looking
like, OK, are there, is there like a, a solemnity coming up
where, you know, the, the office is closed and I'm, I'm supposed
to be off of work in order to, you know, take my, you know,
take my family to mass, you know, to spend extra time with
them. And so it's like in reality, I
have 90 that the 90 days that I, that I have in front of me, only
64 of them. Can I actually be, you know, am
I actually pushing my goals forward?
And so that's helped me to kind of see like I, I don't have as
much time as I think. And so when you know, the time
where I do have to work intentionally, I know that I,
there's certain things that I, I don't have as much time as I
think, I guess is ultimately what I'm trying to say.
And then the next thing as well is, you know, looking through
and trying to create an, an ideal week for myself as well,
where it's like in an ideal week, I would have this time to,
this time to be, to, to have leisure with my family.
And once the kids go down, you know, that, you know, next hour
and a half after the after the kids done it go down before I go
to bed. That can be time where I work if
I need to, if there's something pressing that's coming up where
I need to work. It can also be time for me to
sit on the couch and, and, and connect with my wife.
That can be time to read a book. It can be time to watch TV show,
you know, but just kind of, you know, blocking out my calendar
to see the spaces that I've created for leisure.
And then knowing that I've got, I've got a time for work and
I've got a time for rest, you know?
I love that word leisure, and I think it's it's a powerful
concept. I'm wondering if you could
define it a little bit for the audience, because I think
leisure is a word that is used interchangeably to define
different things. But maybe to define leisure in a
a Catholic sense would be helpful.
Without using the word. Without.
Or. Weapon.
How do you say leisure in Spanish?
You cannot weaponize leisure. Big leisure lesion in Spanish.
Yeah, Laser. Really.
That sounded. French.
That's French. Laser, laser leisure.
I had a student, I, I had a friend who was a student
whenever I was a missionary on campus and they gave like a
whole, It was like every Monday a student would give like a 5
minute spiel on a St. And this person who, who you
guys know and who we won't name, just didn't know that it was
pronounced, pronounced Saint Teresa Lazu.
And so the whole like 100% serious the whole time that they
were talking about Saint Teresa Lesau in front of like maybe
40-50 people was just Saint Teresa.
Lizzo Well, that was so funny. That's awesome, Lizzo.
Anyways, leisure definition go I I I the.
The first thought that came to my mind was to to have the time
to be absorbed in the things of God.
And you know, you know, sometimes people, people will,
you know, they'll describe heaven as like, you know, I
don't like a, like a, an eternal, you know, eternal, an
eternal praising of God, you know, and it's like.
I don't. Like, I don't really whatever.
What is it like Heaven's? Going to be every day an awesome
dive bar. An awesome dive bar with my
boys. Like it's like.
Heaven is a Top 200 golf course. That was my thought exactly.
I was like, I want to like see if I can like play Gusto.
Now all the T, all the TPCS. Like, I kind of want to have
fun, you know? And I don't want it to be like
going to mass all the time, you know?
It's such a real thought though that I'm like something for
sure. And so here's someone that's
like, yeah, it's to be absorbed and of God.
It's like, I don't really what I don't mean by that.
It's like, you know, each Sunday or each time you have leisure,
that means you got to be reading the Bible, you know, or you got
to be it's time for it's time, time for silent prayer.
But I would say that to be absorbed in the things of God in
the sense to allow your, your mind and heart to and heart to
rest and oftentimes leisure, like when you've got kids,
leisures, like is, is there's a part of it.
It's like service of, of the family, you know, and you know,
my, my, my wife is a is a living, you know, sacrament to
me. And so allowing myself to, you
know, what a what a Sunday might look like.
It's like I want my phone to to be away and I want my mind to
rest. So that might be reading book
for a little bit. That might be taking a nap for a
little bit. That might be going on a walk.
That might be just, you know, you know, cooking, cooking a
nice meal, you know, with, with my family.
What it doesn't mean is is is vegging out.
I think that's probably a good the antithesis of leisure,
honestly, is is on is just vegging out where you're not
you're you're shutting your mind off instead of instead of
allowing your mind to be absorbed in the reality of God
in your life so as well. Well done.
Thank you. Like, where do you think that
would rank in the three monologues that we've done so
far? Like somewhere between 2:00 and
3:00. Yeah, right in between.
There but talk about weaponizing leisure though.
Weaponizing rest, I think that's, I have seen that a lot
where people think rest or leisure means sit down.
Like scroll on my phone. I just sit down and turn my
brain off like I've said that, and that's like the opposite of
leisure. Could I could I give a
definition for leisure leisure please?
I think leisure is taking time to re enter the
responsibilities. That are primary to re enter re
enter into the responsibilities that are primary.
Yep. I don't know if I agree, but
keep going. So in our definition, we know
that the opposite is the the sort of running from
responsibility, the distraction from responsibility that that's
not leisure. So that leisure is a time where
I can actually look at the responsibilities I've been given
and re enter them in a new way. So if it's Sunday, then my
responsibilities, my primary responsibilities are to God and
to my family. So in my leisure, I need to re
enter those. I need to have time for prayer
in my leisure, I need to have time for probably the
sacraments. I need to have time to re enter
the reality of my family, like you said, spending time with
them on Sunday. I think what it what it also
isn't, especially in family life, is the lack of chaos
because I've tried to create Sundays where it's like, let's
all sit down and read books. Next thing you know, there's a
book flying across the room, a kids shirt is off, They're
screaming and it's like, oh, you just ruined my leisure.
And it's like, no, you didn't ruin it.
It's just my, my responsibility and my leisure is to, to be with
my children. And so if that means that
they're throwing the books, then let's go outside and play
football. It doesn't have to be
necessarily restful in body as much as it is restful in in mind
and spirit. I like Clintons of Bishop.
That's number four of the models if we're ranking them.
Yeah, I just don't, I don't know if I like the phrase re enter
into the my primary responsibility.
I don't like it either, just to be clear.
You seem to have liked it. I liked it until y'all didn't
like it. I'm sorry.
That's right. Yeah.
OK, what would your ideal day of
leisure be in your current reality?
Can I, if it includes my children, can I just assume that
they're happy? Yes.
Because assume that they're gone because I can give.
Ideas. But then like if I'm, if I
imagine like taking my kids to the zoo, it's like, oh, this is
going to be so fun. I'm going to take my kids to the
zoo. And then you get there and
they're hot, they're sweaty, they're screaming, they're
hungry, they're running, they're they're hitting, they're biting,
they're scratching. It's like.
Type 2 fun. Get, get, get, get in the wagon,
you know, do this. We're going to get you to snack
a little bit. Hold on.
We're going to get you some water and then you leave and
you're just like, was that even fun?
Like. Those more work that.
Was terrible. Let's never go to the zoo again,
you know so. It's like taking kids to the
beach. I used to love the beach before
I had kids. Now it's like, let's put them in
front of an open body of water. None of them know how to swim,
sand is going to get everywhere. They're hot, sweaty and tired,
and there's no place to sit down without getting sand in their
diaper. It's horrible type 2 fun.
I think my my ideal day is wake up, workout, get the kids up
quick breakfast. We've made this change recently
where before Sunday Mass we just do something easy before mass.
And then after mass we do a big blow out brunch.
It's like 10 AM, 10:30 Get the Blackstone fired up and just
pack that thing with, you know, protein pancakes, bacon, eggs.
My kids are hitting their macros early in life.
And then honestly the Sunday rest time is probably my
favorite time of the week. So like the kids go down for
naps and rest time and me and my wife just get to spend time
together and the house is quiet. People are tired from a big
morning and it's just calm. And yeah, maybe a kid wakes up
from a nap early but that time is just so sacred that Sunday.
Like noon to 2O clock. Don't turn on the NFL.
No one likes the NFL anyway. It's rigged.
Just enjoy a little quiet before the kids get back up and running
for the afternoon. And one of my recommendations
and maybe we can move in this direction as we finish up is
some tips for people to just take a step back from the hustle
culture. Clayton, you mentioned like
taking a step back from the phone on Sunday.
I love that our families trying to do like a digital Sabbath on
Sundays. So to take a step back from
technology on Sunday, put the phones up in the drawer and the
only technology that's allowed to be used is the television.
If it's a a game we want to watch or a family movie that
everyone can partake in. Although right now with one girl
and two boys, that is a regular fight.
It is either cars or Cinderella and there's no in between.
Like there needs to be some sort of, you know, Disney, if you're
listening, would love some sort of.
Like they're always listening. Man, can we get a love story?
Yeah, can we get a love? Story that's like Princess
movie. That would be, that would be
fun. But just something to where
boys, yeah, see things explode, but then something falls in
love. Like Shrek Shrek, he's a little
bit of everything. Yeah, yeah, he's got.
Especially Shrek, too. Yeah, it's a fairy tale.
There are princesses, there are weddings, there's action.
There's Lord Farquhar. Farquhar.
Farquhar Farquhar. Yeah.
Poor guy. I don't.
Know. Yeah, short king.
So what was your question? Yeah, what was?
What are some tips for people to get out of hustle culture?
Get out in the sense of maybe take a break, recenter and and
lock in. I think one, one thing we, we
talked about the, the elimination of things on a
Sunday, but I would also add in the, the addition of things on a
Sunday as well, because I think, you know, for a lot of people,
and this is true in my own life as well as that.
When you remove the technology, then you start wondering, well,
what do I do with myself now? Because I'm so used to just kind
of being on, you know, my phone or on the computer or something
like that, say, well, what do I do?
What do I do now? You know, and so I think for a
Sunday, you know, the, the digital Sabbath, yes, I love the
love the brunch idea. John, Michael, I definitely want
to start start doing that you. Got a Blackstone?
No, we don't have Blackstone right now.
What do you got, Weber? We we have a yeah, we've got a
smoker, which I was kind of debating between do I get a
Blackstone or do I get like a griddle to put inside of of the.
Works the same. Yeah, yeah, works, works the
same. So anyways, the the addition of
something else on a Sunday. So for, you know, in a family
that might look like a big, a big brunch on a Sunday.
And then, you know, depending on the age of your children, like
we've just started trying to do high, low God moments with our
kids at every at every dinner. It's really funny.
It's the funniest thing ever. So funny, like, you know, my
oldest is in preschool, you know, and so high moment is
going to be, you know, something that he didn't, you know, some
fun that he had with, you know, his friends that day in school.
And then a low moment is going to be, you know, he fell off his
bike. And then the God moments,
they're always just like the most.
They don't even make sense, you know, It's like.
It is like I, you know, I, I, I shot my nerf gun and I loved it.
You know, it's like. You're like, I saw God and that
bullet. Encourage it, you know.
Oh, yeah, buddy. But I would say, you know, for
those who are single, it's like, hey, just can you organize a
brunch on Sundays, you know, something where you can enter
into friendship with one another.
So that would be my recommendation is probably
particularly surrounding, you know, friendships, like on a
Sunday, Can you can you spend time with friends and then can
you spend time, you know, in your in your own, in your own
thoughts as well? To re enter your primary
responsibilities. Yeah.
I'm still not clear what that means re enter into your
primary. Just just just just ignore it
and go back and watch this after.
It'll make sense. If you play it in reverse, if.
You play it in reverse, it's going to make perfect sense.
Well, this is the on podcast. We sometimes make sense.
We sometimes can make sense of things that don't make sense,
but here's what we do now is that hustle culture by
definition in our world can be damaging.
But in taking time away from that to re enter our
responsibilities could be an opportunity for leisure Forrest
so that we can be the men that God has called us to be.
This is the all in podcast. One of your responsibilities
after this episode is to share this with a friend who hustles
to like this episode to comment below if you think the
monologues were a performance or recommend with distinction and
to make sure that you're subscribed to this channel.
This is the own podcast. We're pumped here.
See you in the next one.