Hi everyone, welcome to this weeks episode of Lesbian Supper
Club. I'm very happy today because the
sun is shining again in London and I have on a guest today who
I've been wanting to get onto the podcast for a really long
time because I think this person is an incredible advocate and
representation of the LGBT community, does so much
incredible work for the community and is a beautiful
voice of the community. And not only that, someone who I
feel a really strong safe safeness towards actually and
thinks a really beautiful person because Char, who I'm about to
introduce actually was someone who was there for me probably
more than you actually even realized during one of the
darkest times of my life. And it's really funny that you
sometimes gravitate towards people who you know, we, we've
met a few times in person, but we're probably more
acquaintances than anything. Can I speak a lot about the
beautiful friends that have around me?
But actually, during this moment in my life, you were someone who
really gave me a lot of hope and reinstilled a lot of positivity
and kind of a lot of strength to keep walking through a dark
time. And that was something that I
will actually never forget. I could probably name on one
hand people who really impacted me during that time and I don't
think would have I would have made it through quite in the way
I did without some people. And you were definitely one of
them. So I'm so happy that today you
get to share that light that I experienced with a kind of wider
audience. So Cha, please introduce
yourself. I can't introduce myself now, I
feel a little shy. Oh mate I feel like that
warrants like a hug or something.
Knee. Squeeze just a little.
Oh well, are. You OK now?
Yeah, I'm good now. I'm good.
I think days can always go from one to the other.
And I think that's part of the human experience is that some
days you wake up and you're like, I wake up with a spring in
my step. And other days you wake up and
you feel flat and you don't always have a reason for that.
But I think if I think about back to the person that I was
two years ago versus the person I am now, I don't recognize her,
and for good reason. But I'm also so grateful for
that period in my life because actually, despite it being hell
at the time, it has genuinely shaped me into who I am now.
And I feel so much more connected and understanding of
the person that I am and what I want from life having gone
through that difficult time. So in short, yes, much better,
much happier. Fantastic news.
I'm pleased to hear that because I do remember that time when you
were, you're really going through like your awakening and
yeah. So who am I?
Who is she? Who are you?
Who is she? Who is she?
Sure, fun fact, it's short for Charmaine, but like no one calls
you that unless I'm in trouble. Like that song Charmaine
Charmaine Delarosa, that is an absolute banger.
Thank you. It's not about me.
Oh, it's not about that would have been a good story,
actually. Is that before you realized
you're a big fat lesbian, you were the Sharma?
The Sharma in Delarosa. But no, not Spanish.
Don't have green eyes? Not 55. 4 Actually didn't think,
didn't quite think about. That also not 14 years old
anymore. But at the time, at the time, I
don't want to expose your age, but at the time of release.
I don't expose my age. What am I?
Who am I? What do I do?
I? Well, I suppose in my bio I
guess it says that I'm a light warrior and that I'm a black
autistic lesbian. I suppose.
I think that I, it probably sounds a bit pretentious and
arrogant to say, but I think I'm probably one of the like
original professional lesbians. Since I sort of came out, my
work has been within the community.
So if we talk work, yeah, I'm director of Birmingham Pride.
Birmingham is my hometown. I work for UK Black Pride, I
write for Diva magazine. I'm by trade.
I'm a peak performance coach. So I consult and work with like
businesses and individuals to try and help them do better,
feel better, be better. But generally I'm just like a
tree hugger, somebody who like waves at dogs and avoids the
owners. Me.
Hard me. Big time.
Yeah. I'm just, like, trying to leave
people better than I found them. I had like such a weird
experience growing up in like a small town and trying to come
out and feeling like a weirdo because of my autism, my ADHD,
and my dyspraxia. So I guess I've made a career
out of like trying to help other people see themselves and be
themselves and I guess that's what I do on the daily.
Oh, and I'm Aleza. Yeah, big, big first and
foremost. First and foremost.
So you wear a lot of hats. Yeah.
And what you said there are kind of about being one of the first
visible lesbians. And I would absolutely agree
with that as well. How long then have you kind of
been speaking out about your queerness and advocating for
queerness and equality? And I think, you know, you said
that I'm, I'm black autistic and I'm a lesbian.
And that's three pretty tough labels to wear.
And although it's, I'm sure, shaped you, and I know from
knowing the person that you are in seeing and watching you that
I wouldn't necessarily say it's something that you struggle with
now. I think it's something that you
would probably say is a beautiful representation of who
you are, but maybe that wasn't always the case.
And so how long have you kind of been speaking out in this world
about these things and what has that journey looked like for
you? Well, I've been volunteering at
UK Black Pride for this is my 9th year.
And so I probably started speaking out about my queerness
about a year before that. So probably I'm like 10 years in
the game now. And it was all because I saw a
Facebook post from Lady Phil talking about UK Black Pride.
And before that I didn't, I didn't like, realize that you
could be black and queer. Yeah, I guess I'd seen, like,
growing up in the 90s, I saw, like, RIP, like Lily Savage and
like Graham Norton. And they were the only sort of
gay people. And they were like white gay
men. Yeah.
Like there was bad girls on TV, so there was like a little bit
of lesbian representation, but not ones that looked like me.
And so when I, I guess, accepted that it was OK to be all of the
things that I am, I really wanted to help other people see
that they could also be that. And honestly, if it wasn't for
Lady Phil being like a African black lesbian who's an activist,
I absolutely wouldn't be who I am.
And so I think I'm really into the idea of being able to pay it
forward. And it's like she paid it
forward to me and I've always wanted to pay it forward to
other people because you can't like I could hide my lesbian
identity if I wanted to. I could sort of play it
straight. And for the most part of growing
up, I was quite good at like playing neurotypical and people
not being able to see that I'm autistic.
But I can't take my skin off. Like you look at me and you're
like, oh, brown. So I really wanted to find a way
that all of those things that made me feel less and made me
feel othered could actually be something that I could celebrate
and talk about. And it hasn't been like, oh, I
just woke up one day and I just felt comfortable.
It's been like a compounding of unlearning all of these like,
ridiculous narratives that I had about myself and what I had
about womanhood and what I had about queerness.
Like growing up in Birmingham and like, you know, in the early
2000s, going out on the scene, nobody dated women of colour.
And it was really normalized for me to like, try and chat
somebody up and then be like, oh, no, sorry, I don't.
I don't date black girls. Wow, they'd actually just
straight up. Straight up be like, fucking
hell. And I just thought that was
quite normal to the point where like, I'm ashamed to say it
like, that became my narrative as well.
I started being like, well, I don't date black girls.
Wow. OK.
And so, like, I had to really unlearn that, like internalized
homophobia, the internal. You actually turned on yourself.
Yeah, because that was what was just societally normalized for
me. And I thought in order to fit
in, these are things that you like, these are things that you
do, This is how you show up. So my journey has been like, you
know, people talk about learning this and learning that.
I guess my journey has been like unlearning this and unlearning
that and like stripping all of these layers.
And I just have to thank like Amory and Rihanna because I look
like as soon as Rihanna Umbrella came out and was like, oh, brown
women are like, OK, we can date brown women.
Yeah. But yeah, they're not like.
I remember that music video very well.
I'd probably say 2% of those views are mine. 2 are mine as
well. We're just like we're making up
4% taking Commission. Look at us doing quick maths.
I mean, it's only two or two, but it's 200.
I'm taking maths, is not my Forte actually, so I'll take it.
Same. But yeah, being able to sort of
embrace myself really sort of pushed me to want to help other
people do that as well. And, you know, learning to be a
life coach, I started off as a life coach, but then I realised
the industry was really like, insidious and horrible.
And I was like, I don't want to be that.
Yeah, I find that whole scene ironic actually, which is a.
Change your life in 24 days with.
Me like follow my seven book guide, I'm going to go online
and do a webinar and change your life.
I Yeah. And then sell you something that
costs £6,000,000. Yep, yeah, disgusting.
I've been seeing a lot of that recently actually.
Yeah. So since I distanced myself from
that sort of world and really start to figure out like, well,
where are the spaces where I can actually make a difference?
Who are the people who I can actually help?
And like, one of my mantras is who can I help today?
How can I help them? And I guess the universe,
because, you know, I'm a woo woo.
Bear 100% the universe answers. That question for me every day,
there's always something to do or someone to help or just a way
to show up. Did that even answer?
Your question, absolutely. And I think you said something
interesting then around giving back.
Do you think that the two things are synonymous though that
actually from doing this you have become because I definitely
find this, but this podcast is that advocating for others makes
me feel more myself and able to accept more of the things to
myself by fighting for them for other people.
Yeah. So for example, I would say that
I've always had basically a good relationship with accepting my
queerness. But since doing this podcast, I
feel even more strength in it, even more love towards it, even
more at home with myself because I like to be able to and want to
be able to provide that feeling of home and safeness within my
audience as well. And then actually thinking
about, like you say, thinking about kind of the little man, I
always say, or like the little woman, the people that don't
have the privilege that we are actually talking about right
now, which is being out and being visible that that drives
me to want to do it more. And whilst when I do it more I
then it gives me that inner reflection more about myself and
accepting myself. Yeah, it's like it's, I feel
like it's a form of growth and it's a form of healing.
And being able to advocate for yourself is really hard.
And when you get there, I think it's important to use that
privilege that you have to advocate for others.
It's almost like what was the point of view doing all this
growth and becoming the version of yourself I hate like the best
version of yourself. But I guess what I like to say
is your favorite version of yourself.
What would the point of being of being your favorite self if you
weren't going to enable others to experience that as well?
It just becomes like selfish and insidious and and ego led.
And I think that is a trap that some people who are in a a
public square queer face, a public first place, a public
queer space fall into really easily.
That it can become this sort of really egotistical, really about
being seen, really about filling up their old wounds with all of
this glory that they are getting and the.
Performance. And that goes for the.
Of it and if you can get to a point where it's really just you
know, not about you like you said you recognise that you have
privilege and you recognise that you have I guess some level of
power, then the most responsible thing to do with that power is
to give it away empower somebody else and. 100% shine.
Yeah. Shine, I couldn't, honestly, I
couldn't agree with you more. And I think this is the kind of,
I speak about it a lot, the battle I have of myself with
this podcast, because when you're in these industries,
ultimately it is a performance you're performing in, in one way
or another, right? You're showing up and you're
putting yourself out there in a, in a digital world and in a
physical space. And I do believe as much as I
would hope that I am always working towards my 100%
authentic self. I think we all put on masks at
some point in our lives and in our day to show up into certain
spaces, not to hide. But there's certain
conversations that I would have, for example, if I was going to
advocate for queer rights in a political environment versus
being sat here with you now. But I feel that being able to
kind of show up in this way, but also check myself consistently
around why am I doing this is a huge thing.
It's like, am I doing it to serve myself?
Is there an ego thing talking here or is there a genuine
purpose behind this? And I don't think a lot of
people are able to look at that sometimes within this industry
because it's so easy to just get swept up into the just the
performative element of it. Yeah, It's difficult for you to
get to a place where you've evolved to a place where you are
invited into these spaces without recognizing that by
being in those spaces, you have to then evolve again because
you're almost like playing a different game.
You're in a different arena. There's a different set of
people to be impressed by you. And that can create like, real
internal pressure. And that's where you have this
battle with your ego of like, oh, well, I've.
I was sort of a big fish in a little pond.
I've now gone into the big city. Now, do I keep that pattern and
keep that behavior and keep performing and keep trying to be
the best, or am I going to allow myself to be a part of this?
Yeah. And I think we don't always have
to strive to set ourselves apart from others if we recognize how
great we are as individuals and if we recognize how great
everybody else is, too. And I think once we get to that
place of that internal peace, we're no longer looking and
thinking about how we're being perceived or trying to compete
with anyone. We're just looking for who we
can help, how we can collaborate, and what good we
can do. And it it's such a game changer
when your perspective not only on yourself, but on what your
expectations of everybody else are.
It's like I find so much peace in just knowing that I'm, I'm
good enough. I am enough, I'm happy.
I'm at peace and peace. No one else can.
You know, no one else can take that away from me.
And if anybody else has more, that doesn't mean I have less.
It just means that abundance is out there.
And if it's possible for them, then it's possible for me to.
Absolutely. And I think the keyword that you
said there is peace. And I speak about this a lot
like you can talk about happiness, you can talk about
environment, you can talk about friends, you can talk about
family. But all of those things I
believe can be interchangeable and are often environmentally
they, they can change, right? Whereas if you find in a piece,
that's something you give to yourself and that once you find
that, it's very hard for other people or, or the world to break
it. But I think the journey to
finding it and it's kind of what I was speaking about at the
beginning of this episode can be really heart.
And I was thinking actually on the way over here.
You you speak there about kind of keeping yourself, checking
yourself and keeping yourself about how I came to know you
actually. And it was because I remember
you were one of the speakers at the I'm going to say it wrong
now, ESOP. They done one of the speaker
libraries like this must have been about.
The little person, yeah. And.
You got up and I remember being in the audience and I have to
admit, I've said this before, like a lot of the influence of
stuff with the events and things like that, I just hate like it
just the energy for me is horrendous.
I don't like it. I find it a creation and A and a
again, a performance and it's just not something that I
necessarily enjoy. I envy people who can walk in
there actually and enjoy it and take it for what it is, but it's
just not me. And that was one of the first
times that I was listening to you.
And it was actually, again, probably one of those self
reflection things of me of being like, oh, this person actually
just shows up the way that they want to and not the way that
they think that they should. And it made me actually, because
I think this was just about the beginning of the podcast where
it very much started as more of a narrative around the the irony
of some of the ways that lesbianism couldn't happen and
the relationships and all of the funny stuff that is part of the
community. Like we are in so many ways,
like a walking man when it comes to, you know, like long distance
you hauling all of that stuff, dating your best friend, then
breaking up, being best friends again.
And I love that about this community.
And I love the the comedy that comes with it and the shared
journey that comes with it. But I found that it was in the
early stages that that was kind of just becoming its identity.
And watching you made me have a hard look in the mirror of being
like Scarlett. You've put yourself in a box
here that isn't actually, you don't feel like you doing this,
but you've kind of given yourself this label.
So you keep doing it. But every time you're doing it,
it's taking something from you. And so, yeah, being able to show
up authentically and what you're saying there is, I think, so
important. And you helped me kind of find
myself as well. And it goes back to what you
were saying at the beginning about the the people that
influenced you and kind of set the precedent for you and open
that. I don't think people realize
sometimes the powerful impact that they do have on others just
by showing up in an authentic, honest way.
As who they are, and I think you do that extremely well.
May make me all like. The mode.
Not on lesbian visibility. Yeah, talking of Lesbian
Visibility Week, actually explain to me what that means
for you. Well, I think if you like to
riff off of what you just said, it's like when I saw lesbians
who came before me being completely themselves, it gave
me permission to be completely myself.
And I think when I think about Lesbian Visibility Week, I think
about all of the ways that lesbians are dismantling the
patriarchy. Our invisibility, if you like,
is because of the patriarchy. As women, we are taught to
please men, to protect ourselves from them or to do something to
placate them. And as a lesbian, I don't have
to please a man. I'm in some aspects less at risk
from men so I don't have to protect myself.
From them. And I don't have to do anything
to give them pleasure because I don't need anything from them.
Yeah. And I, I'm, I'm not a man hater.
I love men. I've got like lots of best
friends. Who?
I hate that we always have to say that.
I mean just to just to let. Everybody I know.
But I hate how we have to say that because actually, do you
know what? In this, not even in this day
and age, but historically, if we were, we'd have every right to
be. But when I don't want it.
Like historically, lesbians have been the ones to support men the
most. Yes, yeah, all through them.
But I don't like that narrative that because if, if you wanted
to be a man hating lesbian, they've given us every reason to
be Oh yes, even as a woman, right.
Especially now with the recent publication that's just come out
like disgusting, disgraceful. But yeah, I I absolutely agree
with what you say around the how actually incredible and special
it is that we exist in a world that is so uncentred around men
and how incredible that is. It's like my favorite Bob Marley
lyric is emancipate yourself from mental slavery.
And as a lesbian, I feel like that is complete emancipation
from the mental slavery of the patriarchy and the, you know,
the saying like, men do rule the world.
Yeah, straight white sis privileged men, especially all
the world. And as a fucking black autistic
lesbian. I'm just paralleling is.
Disruptive. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I am a disruptor just by. Just by actually existing, even
though you're probably one of the most peaceful people in the
world, you're just causing chaos.
So when I think about lesbian visibility and what it really
means to me is, is like true liberation, Yeah, and true
freedom. And I want every little girl who
questions her sexuality or starts hitting that age and
realising like I remember and I have permission to use his name.
But like, every girl in school fancied Tom McChrystal.
And I was so like, why do I? All I could think about Tom
McChrystal was that he's really good at football and.
You could appreciate him, but you couldn't get it.
But I. Couldn't get it.
And I really thought something was wrong with me.
And it took me such a long time to to know what was right with
me and to understand that, oh, I'm, I'm a lesbian.
And that's why I'm not seeing in this boy what everyone else was
seeing. And I want every little girl who
has that, you know, their own Tom McChrystal moment.
I want them to have that sooner. I don't want them to sit in
their bedroom and write in their diary.
You know, I used to write in my diary.
You know, what is wrong with me? How can I changed like what can
I do to to be like other girls and you know, being like the
other girls is like, if I was like, if I if I had grown up to
be like the other girls, I absolutely would not be me.
I would have done such a disservice to who I.
Oh, I couldn't agree more with you.
So, yeah, I just, I think lesbian visibility is, you know,
it is for those who came before us to celebrate what they have
done. But I think for me, it's really
about those the next generation who are being out, who are being
vocal, who are being disruptors. It's about giving them the tools
that they need to really go for it.
I would say. Like, you know that saying about
like they walked so we could run.
I feel like that's what I want to be.
I want to be one of those who is walking so that someone else
can. Yeah.
A. 100% I think lesbian. Lesbian can't even say.
It lesbian lesbian. Lesbian visibility week for me
is actually what you're saying. That is just a personification
of the fight, the fight historically and actually the
fight that we've still. Are.
Very much working on today because as you say, some people
walked so we could run, but now we're walking so other people
can run again. Because as much as the world has
progressed in so many ways, I also think it's winding back in
so many as well. It's progressed and digressed.
Yes. And the sad thing is, is that
the experience you speak about there in school, I had a similar
1. And I do think in so many ways,
hopefully a lot less young girls will have that experience
because people like yourself are showing up and giving that
voice. And because media and the
Internet and things like that do offer beautiful spaces for
people to explore and understand themselves and see people
outside of their little towns or their little villages that do
feel or look or act or they can resonate with more, which is
amazing. But alongside that, we've also
now got laws coming in every single day stripping away our
rights that we've spent years on.
So I think Lesbian Visibility week for me is not about just
the historical fight, but actually the one that we've got
now and sadly the one that we're probably going to inevitably
have for the future as well. And I think it's nice and such
an incredible thing that we can take this time to actually come
together and have these conversations as lesbians in the
media spaces who talk about such things to re evoke that
conversation and that situation around not only is it about how
far we've come, but actually it is just about how far we still
have to go. And we can only do that by
having strength together as well.
And that's what I love about Lesbian Supper Club is the the
beautiful community that we've curated from this podcast.
Yeah, it looks vibey every time I see the pictures on socials of
pub night. Yeah.
Vibe. I mean, it's chaos.
Don't get well, pub night's chaos, why night less so.
And there is chaotic elements to it.
But actually what is always so beautiful about it is the
conversations that we have there.
Like I've had an incredible girl come up to me who lived in a
tiny little village in Egypt and was brought up by a single
mother. And she like there was literally
5 girls, I think, or five students in the classroom.
And she knew she was a lesbian from a really young age.
And now she lives over here in London and is, and she was
talking to me about a friend of hers in Egypt who was also gay,
outwardly gay with well to her I think specifically.
But then now is married to a man and very much is the dialogue of
like, no, I'm happy now I'm married to a man.
And she's, you know, having to grapple with like, not losing
people, I suppose, but having to watch people that she really
loves and cares about put themselves in a box because of
fear. And yeah, I just think that the
community that LSE brings and the stories that is that I have
heard and also the connections and friendships that have been
made there is honestly incredible.
And I never, ever thought that that would be the case in
setting up this podcast, but I'm so happy that it is is the case
and is one of the biggest kind of pillars of LSE existing.
Well done, Bob. Thank you.
I don't quite know how we've done it, but somehow we've done
it. Well, it is obviously needed.
And I think that's the thing, right?
Yeah. It's like if you build something
that is in demand, people walk up.
Yeah. And I think you don't often
recognize how much something is needed until you build it and
people start showing up. And like, on one hand, it's a
shame that it has to exist and that people have to still feel
so isolated and wait for that one thing that they resonate to
to be able to show up. But then on the other hand, what
a beautiful existence and what a beautiful space that you've
created for people to really sort of disarm themselves and
mask the versions of themselves that they put out into the rest
of the world and find a place where they can actually just
like, breathe. Yeah.
And I do find that with LSE because of the locations that we
choose and the way that it's set up, I do find it a very safe
space. And I would hope, and I think
the feedback that we have got is that other people feel the same,
which is super important because when we're selecting locations,
we're having conversations with brands and potential
collaborators. That is like the number one non
negotiator. It's like you're either going to
be here and advocate and protect us as well or like this isn't
going to happen. And that's been incredible.
I want to just move the conversation on because you
mentioned at the beginning again of this podcast about all of the
different things that you do. And I know that you're a very
busy person even still. And I think with being so self
aware and so conscious as a person, not only of yourself but
of the world and of the people around you and everything
alongside the objectivity of the physical strain of working can
be a really, really difficult place to be sometimes.
And I know that you've spoken out about this on your page,
which was that a few months ago you suffered a complete burnout.
And again, going back to the conversation briefly at the
start, I think what I spoke about as well that I went
through a couple of years ago was probably a touch of that and
a breakdown. So I went in with a double
whammy. And I would love and I'm sure
that people listening to this now will again completely be
able to resonate or if they can't resonate with me saying
the word burnout will probably resonate when you go on to
hopefully speak about the journey with that now.
And I really want to talk about it because I think it's
extremely important. And again, I don't think
something that is discussed enough because our lives online
are taught to be aesthetic and beautiful and positive.
And I think there is a lot of stuff out there around what you
were saying with the life coach type things, but I think even
that's a performance sometimes and it's in itself a kind of
seven step guide to fixing your life.
Like piss off, do you know what I mean?
I don't want to swear, actually fuck off, I do.
And so I'd love to hear from you about how that happened to you.
What was the final realisation that this was happening to you?
And then how the hell did you get yourself out of it and get
back to now? Yeah, I guess burnout for me is
I guess polarizing because because I have autism and ADHD,
I experience really high highs and really low lows.
And I've gotten really good at navigating my diary, navigating
my energy, navigating who I spend time with so that I can
generally stay quite balanced and enjoy the highs and feel
comfortable when I'm going through the lows.
But last year at the beginning of the year, I set myself like,
I sat down with the Mando with the masked lesbians and we wrote
down a list of goals because we do our little get togethers with
our personal development. And I was, I was on for
achieving things. I, I was sort of sick of sort of
being quite steady. Yeah.
And I was like, right, You've, you know, you've got a platform,
you've got a fucking brilliant network.
You've got all of the opportunities you need to, you
know, you've. Got the tools.
So stop camping. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Look what you doing, girl? I've had a little world of
myself. You got you.
You felt you'd got a bit too comfortable and just like, oh,
well, it's, it's an it's, it's decent.
It's decent. Yeah.
Let's just roll. Let's just roll.
And you know, I thought about my 2 younger sisters and I was like
I want to be an example to them of what you know a black
successful businesswoman can look like.
So I am going to amp everything up and for the first sort of
four months it was like really fucking good.
Like liberating as well to RIP the past off and just run.
Working with like global clients, I'm travelling around
the world, I'm doing this, that and the other.
Like I was ticking things off my bucket list.
I was having the absolute time of my life and I really was like
feeling myself. Yeah.
And I got really into my ego. I got into an ego space of like,
well, if I can do that, then I can do that.
Which by the way, isn't a bad thing.
And I speak about this on this podcast.
I really dislike when people hear the word ego and think have
negative like association tricks.
It motivates Ego is what gets us out of bed in the morning and
gets us all going. And when you're tapped into it,
it can be incredible because you run on a high of then inviting
more beautiful things into your life.
Absolutely. So I was like master manifesto,
like on, on, on this fucking momentum of and feeling great
and like I can do this and I can do this, like affirming I am
successful, I am powerful, I am all of these things.
And about four months in, I started to feel tired and not
tired as of like, oh, I'm a bit tired, but like, oh, I've just,
I feel like I feel a bit dizzy. OK, I feel a bit like spaced out
like woo. I need to like really ground and
being self aware, but also being quite woo woo.
I really misread myself. Yeah, I was like, I just need to
ground. I just need to do some earthing.
I and I hadn't really considered, but you have
literally switched gears, gone really, really, really fast and
then just gone like, oh, I need to ground like that is not how
because. You're going from one extreme to
the other and your body is just not catching up My body.
Was like, excuse me, can we stop?
And I didn't stop. I pushed because, like I said, I
was in the space of being really, really good at telling
my body what to do. Yeah.
And really, really fucking bad at listening to what my body was
telling me. Yeah.
And I think we all get like that.
We're like, you can do it. You can.
Oh. Just push through.
Yeah.
It's a mentality thing. It's one more event.
It's. And when the opportunity's there
as well, and I don't know about you, but when you've grown up
with nothing in this life and people are giving you
opportunities, you you feel like you have to take them.
Yeah. Like the scarcity mindset was
real and I am very much an abundant person.
I always believe there's more. It will come to you it.
Will come to me but I was in so much of an ego state I was had
so much momentum that the scarcity mindset really started
to kick in so it was like well I've if I just do one more and
if I just keep this momentum and then I'll and it and it's never
going to be enough when you're in scarcity mindset because we
don't matter how big the job is or how good it looks it's not
fulfilling you it's not filling your cup all the way back up and
you're you're working at a deficit and when you start to
when I started to work at a deficit it just chipped away and
chipped away and chipped away and chipped away and the moment
that I realized that I in fact that's a lie there was no moment
that I realized I didn't realize at all I woke up to go to UK
black pride and I couldn't speak and all I could do was cry and I
was looking at my partner and she was like just lie on the
sofa like you don't have to go to UK black pride and I was like
no I do I have to I have to go to UK because.
When you get into that mindset as well, you actually believe
that the world will fall apart if you don't do something.
Yeah, yeah. And I, I couldn't speak.
When I stood up. My legs were shaking.
I was like, not the glowy Dewey brown colour that I am now.
I was like, grey. And my partner was like you.
You literally can't. Yeah.
It's not like you think you can. And you can push through.
Yeah. It's like you.
You're at the line, babe. You.
Yeah, you, you're having a breakdown, You're having a
burnout. And you are, you know, I think
in the autism world, we either go like meltdown, which is sort
of like high emotion, like feeling over sensory and, and
like a, it can be like a verbal outpour or we go shutdown and
it's like can't interact with the world anymore.
And I was at shutdown. Like, I couldn't look at my
phone. I couldn't deal with the
microwave pinging. I could hear every buzz of
electricity in the house. And I really thought to myself,
am I, am I going to come out of this?
Have I really? Taken it too far that I can't.
Walk too far that I can't. And so it wasn't, it wasn't a
realization and it wasn't a choice.
It was like a emotional, mental, physical collapse, like a cave
in and the the guilt and the shame that I felt because I was
like, what a knob. You've got all of this beautiful
stuff around you. You're talking about me in 2024.
It was the same thing. Like I couldn't even get out of
bed to record this podcast. And I didn't want to that I got
to a point where I just didn't care anymore either.
I was like, I just, I care so much.
I don't care at all. Like I'd cared so much about
failing that it had taken away any energy that I had to then
actually get out of bed to do it.
And even now, like I, that was such a difficult time.
And I'd got myself such to the edge that even now coming in
here today, I still have to fight the negative connotation
of who I was then walking into the studio and who I am now.
And as soon as I do it now, because I'm not the same person,
I'm liberated in it. But before getting to that
studio or turning on a mic was like.
Putting someone in a room with their biggest fear of like 20
snakes, for example, and it's the same thing.
It was like Scarlet. You have something at your feet
and in the palm of your hands that some people could work
their whole life for and maybe not get.
And yet you're sat here and you've got a problem with it.
And that internal fight with yourself is 'cause then the more
you just be grateful. Exactly.
And then you hate yourself more. And then when you hate yourself
more, you keep yourself in that energetic space.
It's a horrible loop, yeah. And it's like you start just a
question. Like what?
Like who you are. Yeah.
And where you can go next? Yeah.
Am I depressed now? Yeah.
Like, should I just, like, quit everything and just should I
move somewhere else and start? Yeah.
Literally, I just delete my Instagram.
I was back in Somerset. I had a plan to move back to
Somerset and live with my nan and just eat rich tea biscuits
every day. Vibes because I, well, honestly
still vibes because, yeah, I'd got to a point of such high
capacity that I just wanted peace.
Yeah, I just wanted everyone to fuck off, leave me alone.
And that was it. I didn't want.
I was just done. And not in a way that you talk
about like depressed, yes, because I think those things
overlap. But more than that, just done.
Just so exhausted. I was done.
I just didn't have the energy anymore to do it.
Yeah, and it comes with this like, like this shame, because
it's like, especially when you've done things so publicly
and people have a perception of, of being a person who is
together somebody who they can come to for answers.
And it's like, bitch, I ain't got no answers.
I've got nothing. I've got.
Nothing for you. I haven't even got anything for
myself. And just the shame of getting
myself into a situation where I really thought that that was the
end of me being the version, this version of myself.
And I guess I was right in a way, it was the end of me
because. You've had to reborn.
Yeah, I had to rebuild my ego, rebuild the ego that I so
desperately need in order to like speak and to have this
persona and to have this energy and to help others.
But it it took me to a place of really crumbling and then having
an opportunity to reflect and be like, well, actually, you've,
you haven't crumbled because you are bad or you are wrong or you
are a mean person and you haven't like this isn't karma
coming to get you because you're horrible.
I'm laughing because. This.
I feel like we've literally had the same experience.
Because when I tell you, I spent about six months genuinely
thinking that like the devil was going to just take like I'd like
honestly, that I was like such a disgusting, awful, horrible
person. That everything that I felt and
that was happening to me, I absolutely deserved.
And that, like, this was just my destiny.
Yeah. And it was like a form of
spiritual psychosis, not. And I, we'll get into the
spirituality actually, because I think it's such a beautiful and
important thing. But in that way, it was like I
had done so much in a reflection amongst all of this happening as
well, that it only would take one person to say something even
semi negative. And I would be on a spiral that
Oh well, my life's just over. Yeah, like I'm just like, like
this is Armageddon's come for me.
RIP me. And this is me now.
Like they'll never Scarlet's gone.
Like they'll I will just never become back to the person that I
was or that I thought of myself as.
And. When you have such a like a
strong perception of who you are, like who you are to
yourself and who you are to others and what you represent
and that is sort of shatters. It's terrifying.
But it does sort of when you when you get when you move
through it, you get to rebuild a version of yourself that you
like more and that is stronger and that has more resilience.
And I think if I hadn't have gone through that burnout, I
wouldn't be this version of me. I feel exactly the same.
And I just feel so much more grounded.
Me too. I feel so much more present.
Me too. I feel so much more valuable and
also less, less in need of having to do stuff in order to
feel stuff. Yeah, we, we often.
Resonate with that so much if I? Do this and I'm going to feel
this. Well, actually, I'm just going
to feel that feeling 1st and then I'll enjoy whatever The
thing is that I was going to do rather than chasing the thing in
order to get the feeling. Yeah, absolutely.
And just for people listening, what practical things do you
think you've done to rebuild yourself?
Like where did you start? What were the stepping stones
you took? Well, I started by like full
transparency with the people in my life because it's not just
the perception of myself that shattered and that I was worried
about. It was the impact that I was
going to have on the people around me.
I didn't want to be a burden to my girlfriend or to my sisters
or to my parents. So I had to be really
transparent with them about what was going on for me.
And I also had to reframe the idea that me going through this
meant that I was a problem to them and that I was too much.
I think it started off with having really transparent,
honest conversations, and what that allowed them to do was then
to support me in a way that I didn't know.
Hadn't received before, Hadn't. Received before and to just be
really cared for and protected. I think people will show up for
you if you give them an opportunity to.
And so I, you know, have such a great privilege of having people
in my life who really like love and respect and care for me.
So I had to start with, you know, real me and my girlfriend.
We call it radical honesty. So radical honesty and then
trying to get back to the things that I know bring like, I guess
if I call it the essence of me, joy.
That feels like you. That really feels like you,
yeah. And that could be like, I love
to doodle. Yeah.
And I never made time to be creative anymore because I
always had like a personal development book to read or a
person to meet or something to. Do it was a purpose LED thing,
Yeah, but it was even if you enjoyed it, it was a purpose LED
activity. It was transactional.
It was. I'm going to do this in order to
get this or to get to here. And so just finding ways to
exert that need for creativity. Yeah, doodling, writing.
I love poetry, so just giving myself an opportunity to write,
not for the magazine or not for somebody else to read or
perceive just what came up for me and what I was feeling just.
Yes a moment to switch off and just enjoy the presence of doing
something that you felt grounded you I.
Felt grounded me. I'm big into meditation, so I
love being outside in nature, hugging trees, feeding up
leaves, taking my shoes off, being in nature and just really
trying to connect to like a higher self.
And I know people, they find it difficult when you talk about
higher self because they're like, well, what does higher
self mean? And it's really hard to explain,
but there's almost like a vibration that you feel within
you. Yeah, and you know.
You know you. Feel if you do it, you know,
yeah. And it's a feeling of like
peace. So I was just searching for
moments of peace. And then when I found those
moments, just holding on to them, like staying in that
moment, not thinking about what I've got to do next or moving
on. Just really trying to to find
presents again. And also, it's sort of a
negative thing, but I just became really strict about who I
was going to interact with and who I wanted to give my energy
to. And just noticing where there
was a lack of reciprocity in my relationships, where I was
giving without receiving. And I don't mean it in a
transactional way of like, you know, I gave this to you and I
expect something back, but who are the people who would take
from me and not return anything or I wouldn't feel good after
I'd interacted with them? And just note like really using
this, you know, when you stop, when you start again, you have
to start slowly. It's like if you like fall on
the floor, you don't just jump back up.
You like, you get up slowly and you sort of like stumble around.
And through that sort of metaphorical stumbling around, I
was just really cautious about how I felt around people and
really aware of how different people made me feel.
And I got quite cutthroat with my boundaries because it wasn't
like, oh, I just don't like you or I can't engage with you.
It was actually, you're really bad for me.
Yeah. And if I keep.
It's hurting me. It's hurting me.
Even if you're not intentionally doing something, it's hurting me
and I'm not helping myself. And I can't excuse the hurt that
I'm feeling anymore because it's literally floored me.
Yeah. Which means I can't excuse you
anymore. Which means.
Well, and this is the thing, when you're down at the bottom
fighting for your life, you get to a point where it for me now,
and it sounds so silly, the one thing I'll take from it is that
I'll never get there again. I know I'll never get back there
again because it quite literally did almost become life or death.
So now it's you say about that you know the radical element of
it. I don't care anymore, not
because I don't care about the people that I love and the
people around me. I would be hope to think that
the people that are around me and the people that know me
would back the person that I am. But there's so many things that
I don't care for anymore to apologize for, excuse myself or
explain. Because for me, it quite
literally got to a point where it was my life or not.
And so now I can't make reasons for that to people and I just
don't want to either. Like I'm so disinterested in
exerting energy in that way, which is I think what you're
saying, it's like when you get that far down and you're the
person that picks yourself up because yes, the people around
you can be incredible, but ultimately it starts and ends
with you. And I do believe that because
me, for example, as much as the people around me were
incredible, people weren't there at 4:00 AM when I was looking at
my dog. Like, bro, how are we going to
get through this? Because like, I actually really
just don't know at this point. And it wasn't that I was
suicidal, it was more that I didn't see light ever coming
back into my life. So it was that that I was
searching for. And that's that's when strength
is built and the non negotiables are built like you say, now that
you're selective. I spend a lot of time alone now
and I love it. Like I really love it.
I love not talking to people for 24 hours.
That's like a, like a residual symptom of growing up as a
lesbian. Like, you are so fearful of not
fitting in and not being a part of a community that being alone
is almost like your worst fear. Yeah.
And when you go through something like a burnout or a
depression or an awakening, you start to value actually I never
needed to be surrounded by all of these things just to feel
like I was a part of something. And being alone is actually part
of me being able to reset and recharge and give more value to
the people who actually deserve me. 100% in what you say they're
about like you talk about the poetry and the things that you
do. I mean, mine was slightly more
aggressive. Let's say I got on a motorbike.
Call that what you will, but I absolutely understand the
feeling that you describe when you find something that brings
you back to everything that you are.
And that feeling of that higher self is how I feel when I'm on a
bike. So cool.
And I pull down a throttle a bit, not because I drive like an
arsehole in the right environment or when you step
off. It's when you get off from a
ride. And the adrenaline you can feel
like that for me is like you feel in that moment that nothing
can touch you because your brain has been so focused just on the
now for, you know, it doesn't need to even be long, 20-30
minutes. It is like a meditation when you
get off. Yeah, you.
It's a flat line, but in the most beautiful way.
And like I'm a Pisces that feel the same when I'm on the beach
in the sea. It's that same thing but it's
that duality of my personality lol.
It's like the fire and the water.
And I love both of those things for very different reasons.
And that's where now like that's where I get my energy from.
It's me. And that's part of it as well,
like you mentioned the duality and going through like a burnout
or like a meltdown or, you know, hitting rock bottom allows you
to explore how multi. You have to reinforce, yeah.
And you don't have to be this one version of yourself that
you've spent your whole life creating.
You get to fucking multifaceted. Yeah, you get to be.
And that was my problem as well. And yeah.
Professional and not and you get to be.
All of the things. You don't have to define
yourself as this one character that you've created.
You get to be. And that's what was so hard for
me because I felt so scared of judgment from other people that
I was no longer the person that ticked the boxes of that moment
in time. So I was like, well, people are
going to think I'm a fake. People are going to think I'm a
fast. People are going to think I'm a
liar. People are going to think that I
was lying then or I'm lying now. And now actually, no.
Why the hell would I be the same person now that I was seven
years ago? What an odd way for me to think
that 16 year old Scarlett doing shots of Sambuca on the strip
and cavos is going to be the 70. The same Scarlet now who just
enjoys eating. Like it's not, we're not the
same and that's fine. Like no one wants to see me
doing a shot on a cavos strip anymore and no one's going to
want to see fifty. Well, maybe they would want to
see 50 year old me do it, but you, you know what I mean.
Like how? How silly of me to think that I
had to be the same. But it's also not even silly of
you, because that's how society, it sets us up to think that we
have to fit all of these things and we have to tick all of these
boxes in order to reach the level of success that is OK for
a person of this age. And it's like, actually, all of
those things are bullshit, don't count, aren't real.
What matters is how I fucking feel, what I need, and being
able. To And that is yeah, and that is
what is so ironic is that like it literally doesn't matter and
yet we all spend every day thinking then it matters so much
and people. Literally don't give a shit
about you they're they don't about themselves.
Exactly. So I always say to people like
you're a passing thought, so there's not going to sit here
and say people don't make judgment as part of the human
behaviour, but you're 1 of like 1,000,000 thoughts per day.
Like how silly of us to think that we are going to be the
centre of other people's universes because we're only
over the centre of our own and that's all that it should be.
And it's just cute that people want like if people want to
judge me, cool, Boo, judge me. That says way more about like
your judgment of me has got nothing to.
Do with you? Absolutely nothing to do with
me. I want to talk.
Then there's two things I want to talk about left, which again,
I think is so funny because I think me and you were so similar
in so many ways, which is. Pisces and Virgo is like a.
Good friend vibe. Oh God, yeah.
Which is the spirituality and the the autism.
So I'm going to start the spirituality.
And I think that ties into the burnout as well.
And also, part of being a lesbian is that I find
spirituality. Yeah, because I think we are
higher power beings. Lesbians.
Sorry. It's lesbian visibility week.
We are. We are a better race.
I'm sorry. Like we are genetically involved
as a breed. The hats just aren't the same.
Like we are here. They're there.
It's a. Fact I don't think lesbian
should rule the world. 100% This is why they oppress us so much,
because they know. If lesbians grow it, but.
It fundamentally would. That's the thing.
It's like, I'm not even saying this from bias.
It's just a fact. It's fully factual.
So the spirituality. So I haven't spoken about this
at a great deal, but I think people know that I'm hugely
spiritual and always have been because I'm someone that has
always been very, I think awakened not only to religion.
I think, and I've spoken about this before, I'm not religious,
but I think spirituality, well, don't think spirituality is a
form of religion. And I'm not religious per SE, as
I would box myself as a Catholic, a Christian, a Muslim
or a Sikh, whatever that may be. But I love and appreciate and
think there's so much beauty that lies within religion.
And actually, what makes religion ugly is the world, not
the religion itself. And spirituality saves me over
and over again because what you've spoken about a lot during
this podcast, maybe actually even inadvertently, is an inner
knowing that if you ask for things, they generally will
come. And I do truly believe this.
And spirituality was probably the one thing that did keep me
going like that. Just an inner belief in telling
myself that no matter how I felt in that moment, it wouldn't last
forever because it simply couldn't is what kept me going.
And it was actually, I don't know if you know Florence
Huntington rightly, she's come on here.
You would love her as well. She's amazing.
She's very similar energy, incredible person.
And I was speaking to her at the time of this as well and of when
I was in this moment. And she sent me to one of her
healers, Kate. And it honestly did at the time
as well change my life because it just, it gave me so much hope
and realisation that there was so much out there that was out
of my control and that I could surrender to it.
And that felt like protection to me.
So it is my form of religion. And I think anyone who debunks
religion or spirituality is an uneducated individual because
how naive of you to think that you know everything about the
world when we don't even know how big the universe is.
How naive of you to think that you understand that black is
black and white is white and that grey area doesn't exist.
And that's a whole of a separate conversation.
But I remember going to Kate and it was one of the first days
that I went to her and she said to me, your spirit animal is a
fox. So always look, whenever you're
in doubt, look for a fox. And the next day I woke up in my
bedroom feeling the same that I'd felt probably for eight
months, which was just nothing, a mix of complete desperation
and also nothingness. And I looked out of my window
and there was a fox sleeping on the neighbour's roof next door,
basking in the sun and looking directly at me.
And that was the first time in a long time that I truly knew that
eventually it would be OK. It was just, I can't explain
what it was, but it was almost like, it was like a voice that
someone was like, you, You're going to be all right.
And for the months following that, one day I was driving,
next driving to Kate's actually to go for another session.
And I was crying in the car again, begging like I need
something. And I looked up and there was a
massive mural of a fox to the left hand side in the car.
And then there was another day that I was walking to the train
station again to to go somewhere for work and again crying in the
evening, completely alone with winter dark.
It was miserable. I was desperate.
And I was walking along on my phone and a fox just came out
from under a car and just sat in front of me.
And too many times those things had happened for it to not mean
something, you know? And I think it's hidden from the
world because if people don't understand it, it helps keep, it
helps to keep people controlled, to keep them vibrating on a
certain level. And you kind of again, brought
that to my life as well, sharing your spirituality and what that
means for you. And again, feel like tying into
the burnout and being queer and doing all of these things and
showing up and having a leading strength.
What does spirituality mean and do for you in your life?
I think it's it's about believing in something bigger
than me and and trusting that whatever it is that is bigger
than me is going to pull me through whatever it is that I
think that I'm going through. It's about knowing that if I
surrender to the Spirit, then it will guide me, it will carry me.
I grew up sort of, My mum was a born again Christian growing up.
And so I was christened and confirmed and baptized.
And it's one of the things that I thank her for most because I
wouldn't say I'm a Christian now, but I'm so glad for what
she taught me about faith and praying and connecting and
believing and just trusting. And like every day I say to
myself, I love myself. I trust myself, I am enough.
And the universe always reinforces that form.
Of course, because we all are an energy and and when you
understand energy, energy is science.
So when people again try and debunk this stuff, it's so it
bothers me so much. Yeah.
Separate situation, separate conversation.
When, when you have an awareness of your energy and what you're
putting out, an awareness of other people's energy and how to
protect yourself from it, it's almost like you're living in the
matrix because you are not necessarily seeing like I'm not
seeing people's auras or like seeing the numbers of the
matrix. But I can intuitively feel when
someone's genuine. I can feel when people are in
pain. I can feel when people are
frustrated and angry and I know when to be flexible enough, when
to move, when to connect and how to look after myself
spiritually. When I was about 16, I actually
had a near death experience. So I had a really complicated
illness when I was a teenager that carried on into my 20s.
And when I sort of had this really bad reaction to a
medication that I was taking, I lay in my bedroom and I said to
my mom, I'm going now like, wow, I'm going to a good place.
Like don't worry. And I looked at my bedroom
window that was opposite and I could just see like a light wow.
And I could hear like, I can't even describe the sound, but it
was like a song but also like humming and just also like high
frequency. And it just felt like pure
peace. And, you know, previously people
have told me like, oh, that was the medication that you were on
or that was because you had such a high temperature.
But I felt. You know, I felt.
Just so much peace and like literally straight after seeing
and feeling that and my mum being like you're not going
anywhere and her praying and, you know, being distraught as,
you know, a mother. Yes.
I literally sat up in my bed, vomited and the stitches that I
had from my surgery, like all came out and I was rushed to
hospital. And the hospital said, like, you
know, another hour, yeah, and you wouldn't be here.
Yeah. Again, I had similar experience.
Yeah. So I can't unhear and Unsee and
unknown and unfeel what I felt. Yeah.
And I also can't give it to anybody else.
It is mine and it is beautiful. And all I can do with it is try
to remember that. Yeah.
I am sacred. I am divine.
So are you. We are equal.
Let's try and show each other the light in each other.
And if you want to call that spirituality, if you want to
call that energy work, call it however you want.
But it is human connection. It is the vibration of the
earth. It is what makes us all
connected. It's what makes us, you know,
see an advert about progressive world country and see the
children starving and feel something.
It's what makes us look at like, you know, I'm a stickler for
like, seeing like an abandoned dog.
The dog charities and me have got a really difficult,
difficult relationship, me and animals.
I sometimes question myself because look, with people, yeah,
with people. It hurts me to see people
hurting 100% if I see I saw someone crying in the airport at
the other day and it was it made me cry.
But dogs, animals, it's like another level for me of like
pain that. Why would we have this pain in
a? Because it's not so it's not a
pain that you think about. It's something that you.
It's a may feel, yeah. And when you feel something,
that feeling carries A vibration.
So why would we have that if we weren't connected to something
higher? If we weren't supposed to be
helping each other and loving each other and having this
unspoken, not like not tangible thing that is in the space
between us. It's like, I don't believe that
there is space between us. I believe that in this air there
is energy, there is a vibration. And to some people, you know
when you walk into a room and you're like guided to a person
or you feel like they've got a good vibe or the absolute
fucking complete opposite way, you're like forced.
To keep you. There, that is how spirituality
shares it for me daily and it doesn't have to be in like a
prayer or a meditation or in the most divine way.
It can literally be in sharing a smile and being the version of
yourself that you like the most. 100% I agree.
With being a spiritual. Person and I find as well that
and my again the people around me do say this is that if I
speak something enough it will happen good and bad and I don't
know if that's just me or I think the more you're tapped
into it the more the the world receives it as well you.
Have a mental energy, right? Yeah.
Like when you put that thought out, that thought carries A
vibration. And if you have a visualisation
that goes along with that thought, then it becomes a real
thing that you can see. Yeah, 100%.
If that's a good thing, then you can absolutely move towards that
and like, actualise it. And if it's a bad thing, the
same is true. So you have to be in control of
the things that you are projecting onto yourself by
projecting them into your mind A. 100% like I do feel and find
that the things I've genuinely wanted in this life I have got
through actively. I'm not going to sit here and
say I've not worked for it as well and done all the necessary
living being things. I don't for people who are going
to be listening to this being of course, but genuinely the things
that I have actually do you know what I think it is?
It's what you're saying about going into a room, picking up on
the energy. If I think about wanting
something, because we can all want things all the time, but if
I think about wanting something and it feels like it's already
mine, it's innate to me, I've got it.
It happens. Like there's stuff happening in
my life now. Did I just know it was going to
happen in the next 6 months? Like I just know that these
things will just come to fruition.
And it's really odd because when I was in that dark space,
nothing happened because I didn't have the energy to
manifest or think about anything happening other than just
basically getting out of bed. So at that time, it was about
recovery and becoming who I am now.
And now it's like I know the things that I'm thinking about.
I can already see myself in that in that space.
So I just know that they will just that you are going to.
Come. Yeah.
And it's the same on the opposite.
Have you ever met a person who's like, super negative?
And then when negative things happened, they're like, I knew
that was going to happen. And it's like, yeah, of course
you knew it was going to happen because you've actually been
putting it out there since I've known you.
Yeah. Can you stop?
Babe. Yeah.
Like, yeah. And what's that saying?
What you think about, you bring about.
Yeah. And it's like, well, think about
something different, babe. Change the station, change the
frequency that you're on. Because I believe in projection.
And I think that you learn to you learn to accept what you
expect a. 100%. If you are expecting bad things,
you start accepting them and you're like, oh, it's fine.
Because I knew that was going to happen.
I knew she was going to break up with me.
I knew they weren't going to text me back.
I knew I wasn't going to get the job.
And it's like you're fine with it because you've, you've,
you've learned to expect it and so you accept it.
But if you expect better for yourself, you will only accept
better for yourself. And start better for yourself
internally because all of those examples there with these people
are based on other people or things precisely.
Stop putting it on other people and put your energy back to
yourself and then things will literally walk towards.
You then yeah, but people get. Stuck in this exactly, But
they're stuck in the cycle as well.
I'll be happy when, yeah. It's just literally giving your
power away. Giving your power away.
And I, and I really am a massive believer as well.
And the the same lesson will keep coming back to you until
you learn. And I've learned I've mastered
this now as I know when I'm in a lesson phase and I know to learn
the lesson and walk away really quickly.
Otherwise it will keep repeating.
And I'm so good now at mastering, oh, I know this is a
lesson. And even though I want to do
this, my gut's telling me it's got to be this and I'm going to
trust that. And it comes back round every
single time for me now it's. Hard to learn to trust yourself
but. I think it's one of the.
Most important lessons to and I think it's an only a lesson that
you can learn by failing at it. Yeah, you have to, you have to
get it wrong in order to get to the point where you get it
right. But once you learn to trust
yourself and to trust your instinct and to follow it, you
just, you have so much more peace because you know that
there is this internal guidance system that is going to take you
to wherever you point it to go wherever you want to go.
And it's going to keep you away from the things that you don't
want in your life anymore. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And then finally, but not, not, not one of the most important
things actually we could be speaking about.
As much as it's Lesbian Visibility Week, it's also
Autism Awareness Month. How long have you known?
Sorry, I don't want to say how long have you known because.
Risen with autism, I'm about. Funnily enough, me and you also
are on the same trajectory in this and I've not spoken
publicly about this before so that's interesting, but when
were you diagnosed? Not until I was.
I don't want to give my age whatever.
Just say how many years ago? 89. 8-9 OK, OK, interesting.
Yeah, 8-9. I first spoke about it publicly
6 years ago. And what did that look like for
you? How did you get to a point?
Because again, and I'm going to be the person who says it
because I'm going to play devil's advocate because this
is, this is coming from me, who I actually have.
I'm in the process. And I'm not even sure if it's
the process, a process that I'm going to continue, which I can
speak about briefly. How much did it change you when
you got that diagnosis, if it changed you and how did that
come about and how did it feel? I guess it changed me because it
gave me, what's the word? It gave me something to look at,
to go, oh, that's why. I'm like a handbag.
This makes sense. Now, I'm not just a weirdo and
I'm not behind all of my peers and I'm not lesser and I'm not.
Different. Different, but you are but
you're not. Yes, but it's in your own
category of difference. Yes, and there's a reason the
why I think like this. Yeah.
And it was a previous partner who had always said, like, she
had like, autistic people in her family.
And she used to say to me, I think you're autistic.
I think you're autistic. And I was like, so offended
because I was like, I'm not some Sheldon Rain Man.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like I'm not this.
And again, it's a male focused diagnosis generally, yeah.
There was no, there was no, there was nothing for me similar
to like lesbian visibility. There was just.
No. Visible for me to be like, oh
that's autism. That's, that's the kind of
autism that I have. And so getting the diagnosis was
like a like an exhale because my mum had always called me like
eccentric. Yeah, she's a bit eccentric.
She's, you know, she's very blunt.
She's about her own person. Yeah, don't.
Be offended like, you know, I'd see my uncle.
I'd be like, how come you're bored and fat?
And my mum would be like, you can't say that.
And I'm like, I'm not being mean.
I'm just asking a question based on an observation of what he now
looks like and how he's. It's a fact, yeah.
I can't lie to you. It's a fact It.
Wasn't, you know, and you know, things like in relationships
where I'd, I'd always want to know from my partner, like what
the plan was for the day and they'd be like.
What if the timing was our fits like?
Why do you need to know what my plan is like?
And I'm like, well, it's not about knowing where you are or
what you're doing. It's just I want to know what
the plan is so I can sort of figure out.
Understand how my day's going to Yeah, because it's giving me
facts. It's giving me facts and you
know, all the things that I like I had at an ex partner who was
like, oh, you're fake. Because, you know, I'd be out in
public and I would mask and then I would come home and be like, I
can't be that version of myself that I was out there and I'm
shutting down. And I'm like, what am I fake?
Like, yeah, am I just performing Shar?
And actually I'm this like, disgusting, lazy waste of space.
Who? Yeah, who's just performing for
the? World.
And then also performing into the label as well, because then
sometimes when you read the label, you're like, well, am I
now actually doing that more? Because someone's just told me
it's part of this label and yeah.
And so it's it was really difficult to navigate, but I Co
read some incredible books and I looked at a woman.
What was her name? I'll send it to you, Sarah,
Sarah something. But I'll, I'll get it for you.
So you can link her YouTube. But she was a late diagnosed
woman with autism who was married to an autistic guy, had
autistic kids, and never knew that she was so autistic and she
could actually look. So different.
In book on autism and she talked about girls with autism, rather
than being like little collectors, they were little
psychologists and they would study people and they would
study environments. And they would.
Learn to like, mask and to meet other people.
Which is also a superpower. Yeah.
Because it I will. I know that I can.
And this is then when I'm like, well, I'm a manipulative
narcissist because I know you could put me in most situations
and I can make myself fit. So then that's sometimes the
polar opposite of what we're taught autism is because autism
is like, well, no, you're going to be sat in the corner of a
backpack on and yeah. And then I'm like, well, am I
just then so good at being a minute?
And it's like this whole gaslighting circle, but it's the
same what happened? I've had people in my life say
it to me. And then I was like, similar
thing. Well, no, because I'm high
achieving, I've had lots of friends in my life.
I formed successful connections. I can hold eye contact, although
I've noticed you do the same thing as me as you go right up
to the room right up here, which is what I do sometimes as well.
And it was only again during this bad phase when I was
speaking to different therapists, every single one
said you think you could be autistic.
And I was like, not the problem right now actually, because got
bigger fish to fry. But I think they were saying it
because what you're talking about the burnout and the IT all
comes in together because you're either all or nothing.
So you're all here or you're all or you're crashed.
And you're not crashed like a normal person that you are
crashed. Which is why I think now I still
spend so much time alone because I'm still actually, it's still
actually recovering. You're in a way because it takes
so long. But then there's also the
recognition that I don't want to live like other people live,
which is to like socialize all the time because they get their
battery from that. It takes from mine.
But I had convinced myself for so long that I wasn't that
person. But I think it's important that
you show up so authentically with this as well.
Because I went to an initial diagnosis session and when I was
talking out loud to the people I felt like I was, I wouldn't say
being judged, but when I was speaking out loud, like, oh, I
host a podcast, I can show up in this way.
I have a global brand. I worked in the government for
10 years and done XY and Z Yes, I've got great relationships
with my friends and my family. And I was sat there listening to
myself thinking, Scarlett, like these people are thinking that
you shouldn't be sat here. And now I felt like I shouldn't
be sat there. And then they said to me, you
know, we'd like to speak to your friends and your your family
like your mom. And I'm thinking, but I had
awareness from the age of 3 and I hid it from my own mother.
Because we grew up in a really difficult time where I didn't
and couldn't be a burden to anyone.
So I spent time alone with my dolls in my room.
But I also knew to go out and socialize with my friends to
give my mum a break because I knew from a very young age that
she needed that. So my mum's not going to tell
you the inners of Scarlett's life and Scarlett's brain,
because Scarlett also is intelligent and has a very high
level of awareness. And it's weird because I've been
grappling with what it means to me to actually go and get the
diagnosis, but also just understand that I am who I am.
And I think there's so much pressure around the ADHD and
autism labels now as well, and there's so much pushed on us
around that, that sometimes I think that that can also then be
detrimental because it can then also sometimes consume us.
And a large part of me is like, well, I just walk through the
world in the way that I am. And talking about that, like
walking through the world, some people look at me and they're
like, why do you walk like that? Because I go into my, well, not
conscious, walking like a normal person.
So I walk like a robot and my arms don't move and things like
that. I'm like, OK, Scarlett, you are
different. But what does it really mean to
me to get the diagnosis? And I'm really grappling or
trying to understand how that looks.
I think it's I think if it's not important to you, then it's not
important to you and it's not something that you should ever
do if it doesn't feel right for you.
But I think what is beautiful about getting a diagnosis is
that there will be other Scarlets who are like, I'm a
high achiever. I have good relationships.
I come from a difficult home life.
So I've learned to mask and I've learned to prioritize others
feelings because I've, I've read the room.
I know that my parent needs me to be this version of myself to
protect them. And you know, not everyone will
be able to look into the world and see a version of themselves
that they relate to. And if there is another little
scarlet out there looks at you and goes, Oh my God, she's got a
global brand. She worked in government for 10
years. She does XYZ and she has the
same, the challenges that I have, these are the ways that
she's learnt to navigate life and these are the ways that she
showed up. And I think, you know, you can't
be what you can't see. And if you just being you and
being open about who you are and what your experiences are, help
someone else. And if you have capacity and can
be vulnerable enough to allow that to happen, then now if it
doesn't matter to you, cool. But it could matter to someone
else. Yeah, it's a very good I.
Think that's that was for me that.
Was the reason. That's an incredible way of
putting. It next person would not be.
That's an incredible way of putting because again, it's the
same as being gay. It's like, I'm alright with it.
And this is the thing. It's like, I don't think the
diagnosis was personally give me a lot because it's not not that
you'd want to because I actually love that I'm the way that I
think I love because I have such a big mind that you say about
understand. I can see patterns.
I know what people are going to say 9 times out of 10 every time
before they say it in like situations.
I know what's coming. And so I, I like those things.
I enjoy that I kind of live in my own little world in this way
and I can problem solve really well, things like that.
But there's obviously a lot of difficulties that come with it.
But I'm it's not like you can take a pill and the hard things
that come with it go away, right?
So I think that's where the diagnosis is less of a big thing
for me. But I think the fear of
judgement for me is a huge thing as well of people in my life,
even people who love and care about me, be thinking
differently of me because it doesn't look like what they
would, what they perceive it to look like.
So I almost feel embarrassed, not because I feel shame to the
label, but I feel embarrassed at the conversation that would come
with it, if that makes sense. So I would rather just not know
and then I don't feel like I have to say something.
But it's actually really incredible what you've said is
that again, going back to kind of the previous conversation
here about showing up as a lesbian, it's the same thing as
showing up with a another hat on that doesn't look how the world
perceives it. Like, I don't look like a
lesbian, but yeah, I'm the a massive fucking lesbian.
It's like fighting against all of the binaries that the world
have set on us, which actually just make everyone's life so
much harder. And it will give you an
opportunity to grow in a different way because like you
said, you will have to navigate people having a different
perception of you. You'll have to have
uncomfortable conversations, but you will also give that person
in your family when your friend grew an opportunity to grow as
well. And for the other young people
in your family, because I think it's definitely a genetics
thing, there are going to be other people who are like, oh,
well, don't worry about so and so getting a diagnosis because
Scarlett has that and she's been able to overcome this.
And Scarlett can help them support them.
I've got my Auntie Shaw bracelet on that my niece made for me.
And she's definitely like a little crazy spectrummer, but
she doesn't present in the ways that you like, you know?
Would normally expect, yeah. But I see so much of myself in
her and it's like, oh, Millie, when you she's 6 now, but when
you're 11 and when you're going to secondary school, I've got
you. Because you're going to
understand the journey that she's going to be on.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's a very nice way of putting it, actually.
So thank you because it's given me.
Food for thought. Food for thought.
Seeds planted. Cha, I want to thank you for
this conversation because I think that we've covered so many
amazing things. And I think it's given not only
me food for thought, but hopefully the people listening
as well. And I thank you for coming on
and sharing the beauty of the depths of your mind and also
experiences because I think there's a lot there.
And I could probably keep this conversation going for a very,
very long time. But before we wrap up, I just
want to ask if there's anything that you any departing words for
the listeners of today or anything that you just want to
touch upon before we wrap up today's episode of Lesbian
Supper Club? Wow, big question.
I've hit you so many big questions.
Sorry, big. Questions.
But I think what I would like the Lesbian Supper Club
listeners to know is that your feelings are always valid and
you have a responsibility to take care of yourself in a way
that truly honours honours you. You are a divine being.
And if you can see that divinity in others, if you look at the
world and if you admire people, if you respect people and you
see greatness in others, then remember that we are all mirrors
to each other and the greatness that you see in someone else is
a reflection of you. So don't forget to build
yourself up and collect your own power because it is there inside
of you for a reason and you get to use it and you get to grow
it. And I hope that you cherish
yourself and love yourself and celebrate yourself as much as
you deserve. Thank you.
Thank you very much. And I'm sure that I will have
you back on very soon because I have no doubt that we're going
to have a lot of feedback from this episode and I'm sure people
will want us to dig deeper on some other stuff.
So that's it for today's episode of Lesbian Supper Club.
I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation.
As ever, please comment, please rate the podcast.
Let us know what you liked and didn't like.
I always love reading the responses because it really does
inspire me to kind of lead future conversations.
Don't forget to follow us at Lesbian Supper Club Pod and we
will see you guys next week. Long live lesbians, Long live
the spectrum, and Long live spirituality.
Goodbye, thank you. Nailed it.