Hello lesbians. Hello lesbians, how are you?
Lesbians. We have on an amazing guest
today, CEO and Co founder of injectual, my favorite place on
earth, what I also call heaven, what I also call corrections,
what I also call my second home. I usually go to injectual on
Westborn Grove and you guys have seen me go there many, many
times over the past three years. Me too.
We've. Got Joelle in the seat.
So I have been dying to get you on Joelle for quite a while now,
mainly because of so many reasons.
First of all, you are one of the biggest Divas that I've ever met
in my life. It's like watching an episode of
Real Housewives whenever I see you.
Like I, I feel like somebody needs to have a camera around
you at all times just to kind of capture the way in which you
are. Like, I think that your
character is so phenomenal and very like enigmatic.
I remember thinking that the first time that I ever met you
in injectual, I was like, who is this?
She's the best. I looked over at Scarlett, like,
who is she? And then we were like, yeah, and
she's hot. And we're like, I know.
That's why we just kept coming back, too.
Well, to see you again and I'm never there.
Basically, and to also talk about your experience as well.
I mean, we often advocate for rights of trans in our community
because it's an area in which I felt always gets overlooked.
And I, I feel like whenever anything happens within the
LGBTQ plus community that is to do with hate, they will always
go for the minority within the minority first.
And unfortunately that is trans people.
And so we try and say as much as we can, but obviously this is
not a lived experience for me nor Scarlett.
So that's why I'd love to have you on to kind of talk about
your journey as well as a trans woman and a beautiful one at
that. And, and to kind of for me as
well to understand and, and for everybody else who's listening,
because I do think that it's one of those things where you can be
as clued up as possible. And I always say to everybody,
educate yourself. Like don't expect somebody who's
going through something to educate you, but I find it also
just intriguing because of the person that you are.
But at the same time, you know, like, I also do think it's like
sometimes our job to also just educate people, you know what I
mean? Like, and also like I say that
to everyone, like ask questions, like even like at injectable,
you know, we, we have a lot of like people that work at
injectable that are trans. And I don't expect every staff
or every person that walks into injector to get it right every
single time. You know, we're, we're all
human. And I'm always like, you know,
ask me questions, ask other staff questions because we, you
know, we're here to, you know, we're here to help each other at
the end of the day, right? And like, yes, it's obviously
everybody's job to educate themselves.
I also feel like sometimes, you know, and you learn best some
people that are, you know, closest around you, right.
Yeah. So, so yeah, I always, I'm like,
you know, I'm very empathetic of like people like, you know,
don't worry too much, you know, because I sometimes see people
like stressing out and I'm like, you know, it's all good.
You ever feel like fucking with them?
Yeah. Well, sometimes you know, but
but you know, I like, I think always with things like that is
if the intention is good and you notice that very quickly, right,
If the intention is like pure and good.
Yeah, definitely. You just, you know, throw people
a bone as well, right? So.
You can always tell when it's so loaded.
Like when somebody is having a loaded question, you're like,
OK, you're not actually asking a question.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're trying to be a
bitch. Basically, yeah, yeah.
I don't know exactly. And so just before we get into
everything that you've done with injectual and our transjectuals
as well, I want to know a little bit more about you.
I mean, and your journey, was it from a very early age that you
realized that you were in the wrong body?
Or well, so I mean, look, I always tell the same story.
It's basically like I because it's literally my first memory,
which I have it's when I was like 6 or 7 years old, I had to
write an essay in school. And it's like the literally the
probably like the first essays you, you ever write.
It was like the end of the year and the essay was like, what do
you want to be when you grow up? And we, we, you know, we gave it
and then two or three weeks later we got the results back.
And like, I remember physically the teacher is like, OK, so
everybody did really well. But I want Joelle, obviously my
previous name, he did a really good job.
And I want him to say in front of the class because he got an
11 out of 10. Yeah.
And it wasn't like an all boys school, by the way.
And so I literally, and I remember it was like so scared
to say it. And I literally went and I
literally was like, no, no, I don't want to.
And like she was like, no, no, no.
It was like it was an incredible essay.
I want you to say it in front of a class, but it wasn't, it
didn't even feel malicious or something from her for some
reason. Like I vividly remember her just
being like, oh, I think it's a gorgeous essay.
I want I want him to say it in front of the class.
Yeah, like, of course it's great.
Yeah. No, but I was like, OK, so I go
in front of class and my essay was actually like, when I grow
up, I want to be a girl. And I was like this entire essay
saying like, you know, how, how I I've always dreamed about
being a girl and want to, you know, feel like a girl inside.
And I don't know, like the exact of it.
But it was just like, I remember being so ashamed to say it
because I I really meant it. And it was apparently a great
essay because it was an 11 out of 10.
But yeah. And it but The funny thing about
it all was that it wasn't like nobody made an issue about it.
That's what I was going to ask. What was the reception?
Literally all the voices just accepted me as a girl.
It was the weirdest thing really.
It was just like up until. So this was in the second year
of primary school. Six years old, you said?
6-6 or seven, yeah. And then it wasn't until two
years later when the school became mixed that some boys
still remembered it from two years ago that they started to
build me with it because there were girls involved.
All of a sudden it was the weirdest dilemmic.
But you know, it's like, I don't know something very strange
about it. You know about like, I don't
know, conditioning and stuff with children, but.
Start to try and show off as well, right?
It's like this like macho thing suddenly kicks.
In exactly. As they see the girls there.
I think actually from it was only when, you know, I started
to get bullied for it two years later that I really felt ashamed
about even having those feelings.
And I really was like, OK, this is not, you know, normal or like
this. I shouldn't be feeling this.
And then it wasn't actually until I met my first trans
person, like in real life that, you know, look before that only
sort of like references I had to trans people were like, or, or,
you know, to something other than just CIS people was, you
know, in the media, you know, drag Queens or like, or, or like
transsexual hookers in movies. You know what I mean?
Like this, very like this. I.
Was going to say there was never anything that was showcased.
No. You know, if I thought it was
bad for lesbians, it was way worse, yeah.
Oh, my God. You know, remember in France
when they would be like, you know, just the things they would
say about. Yeah.
Oh yeah, Chandler's mum was it. Yeah, that as well.
But also like, you know, the, I mean, they say so many offensive
things about transsexuals and all these things.
So it wasn't until I actually met somebody in New York.
Oh, were you at this point? So this must so this was 18.
Then I was like, OK, this is a real person, you know, But I
wasn't, that was the first time I met someone.
I was like, OK, this is a real person.
But it wasn't until then. So I lived in in New York when I
was 18 and I moved to Amsterdam when I was 19.
And that's where I actually met a friend who went through the
entire process and she was actually 16 at the time, a
really traumatic experience for her.
But she because she literally like she was 14 or something
when she actually came out to her parents and stuff.
And they, I mean, it was awful. She had like a long hair at the
time in her dad. She like shaved her head off and
stuff. And it was an awful experience.
This is not my story to tell. And like, you know, but like, it
was awful experience. She's and.
Story of many. That was yeah.
And then two years later where she actually, like, found a way
to like, because she has a makeup artist amazing at makeup,
that she actually started making money of her own and was able
to, like, actually like, get out of the house.
And I think her parents even divorced at the time that she
felt, you know, she felt confident enough to like, really
come out and, like, not care about her parents anymore.
And seeing her go through that entire process.
And also just like this was, you could not deny that that
person's heart and soul was a girl.
Like there was just no denying it.
And just like seeing her go through that process and also
just I was like thinking like, OK, I am not crazy for thinking,
you know what I mean? Like, you know, there's this
process obviously in the this is real.
This is not like, you know, but even then I was like, still
thinking that there's just like something mentally not right
with me, you know? So, yeah, there was a long
process that in Amsterdam that I was, like, very confused about
everything, you know, started like growing my hair out.
Well, I was always very feminine, but that's when I
literally, like, started to grow my hair out wearing like, really
heavy makeup all the time. Got lip filler actually, which
is very generous for me and didn't look great by the way,
but you know at the time. Yeah, I think.
It's still adjusting the top lip, by the way.
I mean awful. What happened to the bottom lip?
The bottom lip you just did not touch.
I was like, it's all on the top lip.
But you know, this is like, this is almost 50.
How many? No, I'm going to show you a
couple of years ago. No, but I was.
Three, yeah. You know, this is literally like
almost like 1415 years ago. Yeah.
So this is like even filler and stuff as and ministers
differently and like all and you know, also just like trans
rights and everything. The trans movement was
completely different, you know, So it was just a really
confusing period where I sort of like without at night where
everybody would call me She. How did that feel like the first
time that somebody called you she without you was asking for?
It like, I literally was like, yeah, but that's also like,
because at night I like obviously wore like full heavy
makeup. They think Madonna has just
turned. Up.
Well, honey, it was not Madonna at the time.
It was my version of Madonna, but it was not Madonna at the
time, I can tell you that. But, you know, she was giving
something. But you know, I really felt so,
you know, you know, I was like, I felt just like amazing that
that was also the the issue then I only would like be happy at
night and going out because that's when people would call me
she and like, I just would feel, you know, very happy with
myself. But but yeah.
And it wasn't until I went on a wedding trip with my parents and
my family after, like, living this life for like 3 or 4 years
in Amsterdam and being forced to wear a suit.
Yeah, like forced to wear a suit.
And I was like doing the bride's makeup because I was doing some
makeup at that time. And so, yeah, I was just like,
so traumatic because like, I was always just like, wearing, to be
honest, like shit like this, you know, like black things, flowy
gowns and you know what I mean? Like all these, the furs and you
know what I mean? Like, all these things.
And like, yeah, it was just like, such a traumatic
experience being, like, forced in his suits.
And like, you know, it's like, oh, you see, you're a boy.
Babe I even hated that as a little lesbian.
Like if they put me in a dress I was like the opposite way.
I was like get this on you can change.
But it was like so traumatic that.
Even that was bad, and not even as a trans.
Person you know, no, I mean, you know, like it's so like so
stupid. I remember we were at on the
desk where it was like 1:00 AM or something.
I just felt, I felt so triggered.
I was like drinking so heavily that MIT the wedding party, I
went into my hotel room and just came back with a dress on.
Yeah, I was like, and then I actually made out with a lot of
boys, so I was like, whatever. When is it?
When? Yeah, but that basically my
parents obviously was there, my sister and like the next day my
parents just sat me down and they were like, what is going on
here? My parents literally growing up
they weren't like, you know, now have a good relationship with
them, but growing up they were like especially my dad was very,
very strict on me. Always wanted me to play
football, always wanted me to be like the boys boy, the guys guy
and like, you know what I mean? I like I would always rebellious
because I was always like, I I want to go play theatre.
I want to like, you know, I want to play with the girls.
Like I was there was just nothing masculine about, you
know, or like mad about me. So I was like, you know, I never
had any any sort of like no desire.
But also I never got close to him because it was whatever I
would say would always force me into this role or be
disappointed that I was not more masculine or like, more like,
you know, like a real boy. But, you know, but he was him
actually, like sitting me down and being like, OK, what is
going on here? Because this is like, you can.
And obviously you could see that I was struggling, you know what
I mean? Like, I was just not happy.
He was like, yeah, everybody kept asking us like, is, is he
or she trans? Like is, you know, what's going
on here? And he was him actually just
asking that. And I was like that, you know, I
never expected that. And I was like, oh, I don't
know, you know, And he was like, they're both doctors by parents.
And they were like, yeah, if, if you are trans and if something
is going on here, we will get you all the help you want.
We will, We will, we will get you to a gender specialist.
And we, you know, to be maybe you can talk to someone, but,
you know, something, something needs to change, right?
And I was like, it was actually just such, I think that
actually, in a weird way, it really saved my life because,
like, I was in such a path of self destruction that, you know,
then he literally like drove me to my first gender specialist
appointment at the gender team in Belgium on the way back after
speaking to that that specialist for like half an hour.
He literally was like, yeah, what are we doing here?
You know, like any. And I was like, yeah, my parents
will never accept me. And I was like, and he was like,
try them, you know, you never know what happens.
And then on the way back, I told my dad I was like, I think I'm
trans. And nearly she was like I've
always known. Wow.
Yeah, I've always known. Still try to make you play
football though, but don't worry about it.
That's but that's why I was so hard on you.
But I think I've always known. Yeah, yeah.
And they think, yeah, but since that moment, he's treated me
like his daughter, which, you know, I had some resentments and
stuff for him. But like, I can't help, you
know, it's, it's so beautiful. That's amazing.
I think maybe in a way though, it probably if is he quite a
black and white thinker. Yeah, this is one thing.
This is one thing. Yeah, he's also a bit on the
spectrum. Yeah, for sure.
So this is like my dad, OK, So my dad, when I came out as only
being in love with like one girl, he was like, don't get it?
Why would you do that? Like, do you know what I mean?
He was very much. But then once I came out as gay,
he was like cool. Like he didn't, he didn't care.
So The thing is, probably with your dad, he got it probably
made sense for him that you were a woman.
Well then that makes sense rather than being a man or a boy
that doesn't fit into the male stereotype of what he believes
that you should do and get up to you.
Yeah, yeah, it's. Really interesting.
So interesting. Yeah, exactly.
No. And like, you know, ever since
then, I gave a proper relationship with him before I
had I, I didn't, you know, he can feel also when the, when
somebody wants to build a collection with you, but you
know that there's resemblance from both, both, you know,
sides. So it was just like never
working. And now, you know, I, I love him
to bits. That's great.
I. Love that that was.
How did that feel for you when he responded in that way?
Oh, I never ever expected it. Like Lichi.
Never. No, honestly, like for the
longest time I really got like, I cannot talk about it, but for
the longest time I would always start crying.
Never expected it. And like even from my full
family, but especially my dad. But it's the sweetest thing.
It's like the moment I came out and, you know, I told him that
even like when I have to hang something up in my apartment,
he'll he'll literally almost could travel back from Belgium
to London to like, you know what I mean, to start like drilling
something in my wall And it's so sweet.
But like that's, you know, that's things that he would
never obviously used to do. And literally from that moment,
it was literally black and white.
It was like, OK, you're my daughter now.
Amazing. Yeah, he just made more sense in
his head. Way more, but everything was
more sense since that moment. I have a relationship with my
dad. I have a I always had a nice
relationship with my mom, but obviously we got even closer.
Ever since that I have a relationship with my sister.
Like, because before that I didn't, I, I from my side didn't
have a relationship with my sister.
We had a relationship obviously growing up and stuff, but then
during puberty we really got completely different ways, sort
of like, yeah, just. Were you more of like the party
child and or was? It, it was just like, I just
didn't feel at home at home, you know, Like literally I was like,
I remember always sitting at the dinner table and just like
dreading it because my sister and my dad would be like the,
the big talkers. I would always just be sitting
there. Like, I feel like I didn't fit
in. And my my sister and my dad are
very alike. And also growing up, she would
always be like, oh, you know, why can't you be more like the
other boys? And I was like, yeah, I always
went into her room and stole her makeup and stuff.
Even though she's not really like, a girly girl.
Every day before school I was like put on some concealer, like
mascara. You're ahead of your time,
honestly, at this point. And I think I think it's an
amazing thing to do and to discover, though, when you had
no representation, like you had nothing to to look for.
And obviously, yes, there are drag Queens, but drag Queens
aren't the same as trans women either.
That's not like a lived, you know, experience, just like
different, you know, it's costume.
It's not. Oh my God.
And I remember even growing up and sometimes even, like, I
don't know what it was, but like, sometimes even a bit
scared of drag Queens, I was like, because they're just like,
so much, you know? But I like, obviously it must
also just be like, internal, yeah.
Transphobia. I hated lesbians.
Well, exactly. You know what is Ellen DeGeneres
doing on TV? Get her off.
I remember like making a comment
to my mum about Lindsay Lohan because this is when she was.
Seeing. Oh yes, Sam.
Yeah, and I was like lesbian, I think I was honestly, you try,
you try and pray away so much that you just go, I think the
complete other way. And like I'm so glad that you
managed to kind of find your path and within the time that
you did and before it got to much more dangerous level as
well. Oh yeah.
That happens to so many people. For sure.
Yeah, no, no, I mean, I was really on a pad of self
destruction before it and I I think obviously that wedding
really needed to happen. Yeah.
And it would happen probably like it's a just around the
right through the right time. These things were getting really
DVD Talk, you know, just like, yeah, just was really, really
unhappy, but. I know, yeah.
I mean, I'm so glad that they forced you in that suit at the
end of the day. I mean, it made you rebel in the
best way. I.
Know it was traumatic at the time, but you know.
Here we are. Yeah, exactly.
So as soon as you came out, then to your parents, did you think,
OK, I want to get the surgeries? I want to.
Do oh, the moment I came out, I literally was like, I knew
exactly what I want. I like she was like, let's get
it done. Did you ever move?
Board you were like I want these tits.
Yeah, no, I mean, look, I at the time there was literally around
the time of Gigi Gorgeous love. Yeah, exactly.
So her coming out and Andrea PJ and stuff.
So that was my only two examples that I was like, okay, but I
knew exactly what I wanted. I had face surgery, I think
literally within. Four months, four months of like
basically coming out and being on hormones and then all the
other surgeries booked in like the the quickest I could get it
because you need to be on hormones for a certain amount of
time. But I literally, the moment I,
I, I came out, I was like, let's get this over words, you know,
And then I actually did it all and all the surgeries, all the
hormones, all the, all the therapy, all the
endocrinological to, you know, the hormone doctors and stuff
you. Must have just been like, sat in
a wheelchair like this, got your arms out, no?
But. Look.
For like, I did my studies in Amsterdam and those were sort of
like finished. And I actually, and I'm, you
know, I'm very grateful for my parents as well because they
they really supported me through this time.
But I did this all in like a year or a year and a half.
Incredible. Yeah.
And just was like, but I took that time literally almost to
literally transition. That was my only thing that I
had really going on. I had a boyfriend in London at
the time and I would travel between Amsterdam, London and
Belgium. I would literally just be
focusing on on my transition, which is, you know.
Was he helpful throughout that transition as well?
He really, you know what? Like I have to give him that.
Like he really was. I met him when I was doing an
internship in London. So, so did my uni in Amsterdam,
internship in London. So I was here in, in six months
and it was the six months that I had to wait for my first therapy
appointment after that wedding. So that was the period where I
didn't have hormones or anything.
So I stole my parents birth control because they had a full
cabinet of of of sort of like medication because they were
JPS. So I saw birth control for
estrogen. I mean completely mental because
I even online you couldn't even find anything.
But it's like, oh, there's estrogen in there.
So I'm going to take birth control.
How does that make you feel? Does it make you go weird?
I mean, I was, I was back a doodle at the time.
So I was just, I didn't care. There was just like some
estrogen in there. And that's Lucci doing that
internship in London. That's where I met him.
And I have to say, like he was just looking back now, he was
so, so supportive for everything.
You know, he made me feel, he always made me feel so
beautiful. Like, you know, there was like
times where obviously I, you know, before facial feminization
surgery, I felt so ugly and like I would like, I would always be
so confident. And the moments I came out, I
got so shy and like almost like did not even dare to go outside
and like always would be scared to go outside.
And I just like such severe gender dysphoria and anxiety do.
You think it's because you'd finally kind of like, stepped in
to be like, OK, well, I'm a woman.
So then exactly the pressure was on.
Exactly. And then whenever somebody
would, I would be out and somebody would then be, oh, he,
him, it would like devastate me. Like it would ruin my week.
But he would always be like, Oh my God, you look so beautiful.
You know what I mean? Like it was really sweet.
And then he was there for the entire process.
I mean, there it wasn't perfect at all, but there was then a,
there was a couple of things that happened.
But then basically like once everything was done, I was like,
I want to move to London now and start a full new life, like
properly move to London. Because in Amsterdam that was
like that period where I was like felt really, really
insecure In Amsterdam. I was like going to that entire,
you know, between phase, I would say.
And then in Belgium I just never felt at home.
So I was like, OK, let me just let me move to London.
And he actually lived in London at the time.
But it was just like the moment I was done with everything.
I really wanted to like explore London and like, this was the
beginning of my life, obviously. And he was like, why don't we
move to, I don't know where it was.
It was like Surrey or something. And like move out of London.
I was like, no, maybe not. So no, like I'm, you know, I'm
very sweet, but it just, we're just in different stages of our
life, I guess. And it's not the place for you
to kind of discover your whole new life, you know, going
straight to Surrey, you know you've skipped 50 years, you
know you're going into a place is your new found your real
self. Yeah, now exactly.
You want to be able to really. Really.
No, I know, look, but it sounds obviously awful and like, you
know, it was really, really good for me up until a certain point.
But yeah, it was just, it wasn't working like I, I was like a
butterfly that they would try to cage a little bit, you know?
That happens a lot. Yeah.
So I was like, this butterfly needs to fly on it.
This butterfly is ready to spread away.
And she did so. So.
So yeah. That must Did you see a massive
difference in your mental health once you had all the surgery and
the hormones and everything? Oh, just looking in the mirror
and just. Yeah, Oh, my God, Completely.
Like, you know, I yeah, I've like one of my best friends.
Hi, Emmanuel. I really chew.
And he knew me from in Amsterdam and like how confident I was.
And then he went through everything because he's also
Belgian. He went through everything, you
know, in transitioning and stuff and he saw how at least she got
so small and like so insecure. And then he actually was the guy
that moved with me to London. Like we moved together and I'm
just a different person now, you know what I mean?
Like I've I've got a confidence from Amsterdam back, but I'm now
way more myself, you know what I mean?
Like I'm not I? Could never imagine you being
timid. Well, yeah, I mean.
But of course, yeah, it makes sense as to why you were.
You just, I do think most trans people go through this where
they're, there's just a face where you feel so insecure, you
know, it's very vulnerable. But I mean, you doing it all in
one year does not surprise me. The amount of times that you've
been stood there whilst I'm getting an injection in my face
and you're like, beauty is pain, honey.
I of course Joel is hard. Like, I mean, when I was
speaking to Nina before and she was just like, yeah, Joel
doesn't get any numbing. She just goes straight to town
and I'm like, yeah. Yeah, you're.
Made of steel. You've done it all now.
No exactly, but I mean look, I, I, I also really, really love
this field. You know what I mean?
Like, just like it excites me because also surgeries and
treatments and even that first meal of flip filler, it just
made me feel so confident and so affirmed with myself, you know,
that I'm like, I'm also just excited to do that to other
people that are like it. Literally, sometimes I can look
at people and be like, Oh my God, you know, it's going to
change your life. But it does though.
Like all jokes aside, I do genuinely think that treatments,
no matter how big or small, can really make a huge difference.
Like huge difference for skin. Skin, Oh my God, if my skin is
bad, my mood is bad, everything's bad.
I mean I. Oh my God, and Oh my God, refuse
to go outside. You know, friends of mine, they
are like, Oh my God, I've got one spot.
I refuse to go outside. And I'm like.
Yeah, that comes straight to injection.
Exactly. Let's go.
Let's put the cortisone. Shot in there.
So is that what made you then? So all of your process and
journey did, what was the kind of deciding factor of starting
up injection? And how long ago was that now?
Is it like 4 years that you started injection?
Yeah, 3 1/2, three and a half, almost four years, I think it
was upon moving. So I, I studied fashion in
Amsterdam and then basically like upon moving to London, I
obviously went through my entire their process, how life changing
that was for me. And I was like, OK, this is,
this is really interesting. Plus my sister is a plastic
surgeon. So we after coming out there was
just like a click in us that was like, I think we need to start a
business one day together. It was literally like, I don't
know what it was, but we both had that feeling because it's
like, so it was a gorgeous moment as well.
Like me coming out to her and it was like, well, she really
accepted it and she was like, yeah, completely fine.
What? An amazing family by the way.
Yeah, no, no, no, I honestly, I owe them everything.
But she we both at that feeling like I really just sort of, you
know, start something together after working in fashion for a
bit and doing an internship here, loneliness of hated
fashion industry, absolutely hated it.
Also, it pays absolutely nothing, nothing like, you know,
but also like you're expected to work 18 hours a day for
absolutely no pay. And like people are bitchy as
fuck. So I was like, OK, this.
What are we doing here? They all think they're in Devil
Wears Prada. And then it's like, you're not
sweet. Like you're just running to get
Starbucks. Like, come on.
But it was like, you know, I'm moving to London.
I was like, OK, let me give this industry a try.
And I started working at this Academy for injectables And I, I
went from like working with these fashion bitches.
I feel like, feel, feel like the world, you know, to like these
really grounded doctors that are really smart, treat your their
employees really nice. A booming industry that is like
literally exploding basically at the you know, especially at the
time and like even now that I was like, okay, this actually is
lovely to work in, you know this this is actually how work can be
and also like obviously I grew up my both my parents are
doctors. My sister is plastic surgeon.
So I was like, obviously. I have seen your sisters work,
yeah. She's amazing.
I want, I want the boobs that
she does. Yeah, she did this one.
She just did one, by the way. Yeah, it's just one this long
story. That's your favorite boob?
I'm no joking. Yeah, I've been like looking at
them, like bookmarking and being like that one, that one, that
one. It's just the right 1 though.
I think I can only afford one boob from her, so I'll put the
other one on the. Payment.
Here we go, Clear pay or Clarina.
But so where were we? Oh yeah.
Yeah, sorry. OK, So basically started working
at this Academy, really enjoyed it.
And I was like, OK, so I always worked in marketing, but then
did basically marketing for this Academy for injectables.
I really, really enjoyed it. And then afterwards I was like,
let me just work for a clinic now.
So then worked for this clinic called Cavendish Clinic.
I've heard of them. Yeah.
And that was a like a really, really, I wouldn't even call it
a chain. It was like they had two clinics
and actually grew the business there in three years, 3 or 4
years to chain of tank clinics. Going into John Lewis and like
having all these cool projects with skin circles and
Hydrafacial and launching A Hydrafacial bar and injectables
clinics in John Lewis and stuff is really interesting periods.
Amazing. Yeah, saw what they were doing
right there also, just like, So what they were doing not so
right there, you know what I mean?
But obviously you follow the boss.
I was like, OK, let me just take everything that I've learned and
see what is missing on the markets.
And that's where I was like, OK, there's actually not really
cool, nice concept around injectables, especially in
London, you know what I mean? Like, you have these Hardesty
doctors that are like, you know, they might give you great
treatment, but the experience around it is awful.
You know you pay a hefty premium always like resenters around
like one doctor. And you're never sure if you
really trust them either. Yeah, like, depending on what
clinic you go to. But I mean, I've gone to some
clinics where like the lobby looked really nice and then you
go into like the office but and you're like, Oh no.
The lobby looks really nice. Have you been in Harley Street?
Most of the most of the the the clinics there look like a
fucking crack there. No, it's weird.
I was in Harley Street. I was terrified.
I was like, this is not what I said.
No, exactly. I mean, but you're literally
walking in there and you were sitting there in between people
that are going to the gynecologist, you know, people
that are going to the orthopedic surgeon.
And, you know, it feels so unnatural and like, you know,
you're all set up basically also going to square.
You often look at each other. It's so awkward.
And then, you know, you're called over by this random
receptionist to go upstairs. And then sometimes you even put
numbing cream on in this in this waiting room.
I've done that before. Yeah.
And then you're basically after your treatment, you're literally
ushered out directly on the street, your lip is still
bleeding, you look a mess and you just are like, OK, I just
paid, I don't know, £500 to get my lips lip fillers on.
But like you know, the experience around is awful.
Less stiff lips. Yeah, or you go or you go to a
chain and then you literally you're either treated by really
good doctor, but you might also be treated by somebody who has
it's generally no experience. Yeah, they have done a one or
two day course, no experience. No, it's terrifying.
Yeah, so don't ever. Want to trust anyone?
Like that's how we face. Yeah, but that's how it used to.
You know, a lot of change chains still do that.
You know, they they have no real vetting process for their
injectors to our psychic game. Why don't we just do the
complete opposite, create a really cool concept around it,
take it out of Harley Street because every literally every
single person can rent A room in Harley Street.
So like let's take it out of Harley Street, put it in the
high suite. There's no need for taboos
around injectables anymore and create a really nice experience
around it, you know, and you. Have.
Well, thank you. We try, you know, but it's and
also like with every location, obviously we learn things and we
like to always improve. But like, you know, it's, it's,
it's already miles away, miles better than Harley sweet.
So obviously we have beverages up on arrival.
We like try to like have any really nice center at the
clinic. We have like a concept, you
know, and we had a concept studio look at the design and
like really think about every, every aspect.
And after treatment, you have LED therapy to speed up the
healing. Plus it's like really nice to
like, it's a really nice sort of like ending to your treatment
because it like relaxes you, speeds up healing.
You have a little skin care and makeup tester bar if you want to
like reapply something to moisturizer so you can literally
go back to work. Yeah.
Yeah, you. Can go back to you know, a lot
of people go back to work afterwards and then we have
memberships treatment plans to also make it as approachable for
all you can see. I just wanted to think about
creating a really nice experience that a real nice
brand surrounds injectables so. Yeah, I mean I, I, I mean I
remember, I mean Scarlett first when and immediately completely
different experience to anything else that I'd had before.
I walked in looking cooked babe, like I had.
I remember sitting down and I'll try and remember the clinicians
name now, but it was now like 3 years ago that this was and they
looked over at me and we're just like, no, I said, what do you
mean? No, They're like, we're not
touching this space. They're like you've got
migration filler all up here, all down here.
There is no way I'm injecting on top of that.
It's really thick. It's this, it's that.
And I remember sitting there like first of all, I'm like,
God, never felt more ugly actually.
But secondly, thank fuck, because that was what made me
really trust injectural just like from the get go, because I
thought any other clinic probably would have been like,
well, yeah, we'll take the money.
And just like you know, do do your lips so then straight away
booked in for the migration filler dissolving.
Really fun experience that. Yeah.
But it has to be done. You know you have to I.
Would say this to everyone like migrate because you also did it
as well. Lib I'm looking over at live in
the corner. You also had your thank God.
Honestly, I mean, I've gone through the years, I've had them
a couple of times as well. You know, I, I worked obviously
for a training Academy, so there was a couple of people that
trained on me. Yeah, it's got to be done.
It's got to be done. That is the one thing that I
would always say to everyone like don't go and fill onto a
filler that just like is no, no, no, yeah, lodge somewhere.
Oh my God. But also you haven't.
Like it makes such a difference. You know what I mean?
It does. I mean, I did.
I looked awful, Yeah. Yeah, no, look, but I sometimes
it's, you know, even with lip filler, there's still something
to be said about like after a couple of years, even if it's
perfectly injected and you know, you use a really good filler,
sometimes after 10 years after doing it, it's just like they
will find a way. It's because obviously filler,
you know, there's now new studies, it dissolves to some
extent on its own without any of obviously dissolver.
But there will sometimes still be like residuals and like even
with trauma or you're fighting on something the wrong way or
you know what I mean? Like it will just like start to
move sometimes. Don't go on any roller coasters.
Don't go to Thorpe Park. Your fellow want to end up at
the back of your scarf. No, I, I feel like they're
saying, I mean, I because there is, there is so much to be said
around getting, getting the bad kind of, you know, treatment.
And I think another thing that I noticed with injectual as well,
I remember being like, oh, I really want like fella here and
I want fella here and I want, and they're like, no, you
genuinely don't need that. Like, we're not going to do that
to your face. And so that is what I love
'cause it's never pushy. Like, well, have you tried this
as well, You know, and it's like, fair enough when it's a
valid suggestion. Yeah, that usually Stella will
look at my face and be like, please get CO2 or like, whatever
on your face. I'm like, I know Stella is
hilarious. No, no, the reason why Stella is
like this with me because I give it worse to her.
Yeah, yeah. I spend my time bullying your
employees. I did great, yeah.
Lovely. And I absolutely.
Blacklist. Yeah, no, I was joking.
No, no, she's fantastic. But I think in a way of just
being able to say, OK, this is actually what you need and what
are you doing? Because whatever it might be
might not be suiting what you're doing.
And we don't want you to like waste your time, money, effort
on something that's not working, you know?
But it's also like, and that's basically what I also wanted to
say about other changes. Like we literally that people
that come to inject like that work for injectable as injectors
as in like everybody obviously needs to be a medic, but also
everybody needs to have a certain level of experience,
like at least three or four years and preferably a level 7,
which is like the highest degree in injectables that you can get.
That was actually the training Academy that I first worked for.
They invented this, but it's a really nice stamp of sort of
like of, of injectables of, you know, of a degree that people
can have, but also at another day, because we only imply
medics for this. It's like they're medics first
and foremost. So they're, you know, code of
ethics. It's like, you know, you never
want to sell something to someone.
And also like, I never set any sales targets or like, you know
what I mean? Like I, I'm literally like
people give people what you ethically think people needs,
you know? You're like, let's just make
everyone hot again. Basically, well, literally, but
you know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I don't ever.
And I never want to do that because like, yeah, no.
It happens. Feels completely.
Wrong, but that happens a lot to a lot of you know, other chains
where they put like even on doctors and stuff like these
sales targets. I'm like, that is crazy.
You know what I mean? Like.
I'd also say as well that it's like.
Highly unethical, but. One is unethical, but two, you
know, you've got someone coming in who's in quite a vulnerable
position. Oh my God, Completely.
And once you start reeling off like a load of different things
that they can have, then they're going to, oh, do I need that?
And no exactly you know, and then go for it.
I mean, look, there's certain we give everybody certain training
and all the same products, several same techniques.
Like I want everybody to to always do the same technique for
the for the lips. They have a group chat where
they always discuss cases and we have a journal club every month
and stuff to like do constant training and stuff.
Everybody will always also have their own technique.
I just never, it's never cookie cutter, right?
Every phase is different. Yeah.
I mean, I can say on first hand that it's completely changed the
way that I one view myself. I think one of the main reasons
why I wanted to start getting Botox as well, like any kind of
toxins injected, was because I would have to edit this podcast
so I would look at my face and that why does it move like that?
Yeah, yeah. What is up with those
expressions? Like I have actually too many
expressions for one person. It's still very expressive, even
weird Botox, but I you. Look amazing.
Thank you. But it's all to do with you.
Thank you I I my life so. Crowded.
My girlfriend will thank you. I was looking through all the
videos and I think obviously being more like high pry
analytical and looking at things me like no, I'm just not happy.
Therefore I would actually rather do something that's gonna
make me feel better in my skin. Yeah and it's made me feel much
more confident and I I can watch myself and edit and not want to
bang my head against the wall. So that's.
You know, this is what we do it for.
You know, this is literally what we do it.
For but it's also just like it does affect you mentally, huge.
Oh my God, completely. Yeah, yeah, no, but it's I mean,
it's it's actually it's I mean, not I don't want to say crazy,
but it's actually incredible how even like Botox or like 1 mill
of lip fluid can really like change how people go about their
daily life, you know, like, and I I I keep saying this example,
but there's like this girl. Do you know Charlie cracks?
Yeah, I mean, she she came to the clinic and she like lip
filler. And 10 years ago she went to
another, another clinic, not ours, and had lip filler and had
a, you know, it look, it can happen to everyone, but she had
a vascular occlusion. So she had filler that went into
a into a blood vessel. I don't know the exact story.
I probably should ask her more details about it, but it, you
know, it got quite bad. That's terrifying.
Yeah, really, really terrifying. And I don't know if she went to
a proper medic, but, you know, that had to get dissolved.
Luckily with like normal filler, you can literally, and most, you
know, all of our medics can easily recognize that the moment
they inject it. But, you know, it got really,
you know, quite, quite bad and quite scary where it got like
completely, almost like blocked. Yeah.
So then tissue can start to die off and stuff.
So it's it's really, really important to like go to a medic
that can recognize this and also dissolve it because it's like,
you know, it's it's a medicine. So but yeah, she she was really
terrified. But then when she after 10 years
of finally trying it again and trusting us, had some one mil of
lip filler, She literally, if you talk to her, it literally
sounds like we changed her entire life.
Yeah. She she felt, she's like, I've
never felt less dysphoric. And I've like, I'm finally feel
like a woman and like we know all these things and.
It makes a huge. Difference.
So yeah, we do God's work. Basically you do.
God's work. No, honestly, you do do God's
work. Jesus Christ.
I don't know what I would do without you guys.
I mean, honestly has yeah, it has made a huge difference.
And like just Botox as well. Like the the power of it, like I
would say with my jaw, especially from like a pain
perspective as well. First of all, I look like
handsome Squidward. I had like the squareish jaw and
then in my traps as well. So I'd always get headaches
because of my traps or from my jaw and just the the actual like
silhouette and the shape of my face just completely changed
since getting that done. Awesome.
Me and like for a lot of transfermen like that massage or
Botox did she make such a difference?
And I actually didn't notice it until like Zayn one day was
like, oh sweetie, we need to do muscle tests.
And I was like, I don't think we do.
And then I actually didn't and make such a difference.
And but also like even indeed like the tension and stuff.
And isn't it even with, like with Scarlet, the migraines?
Migraines as well. The Botox really, really helps
that too, which is amazing. I think that people
underestimate just how powerful it can be and just how like a
little bit of something can just help, or even if it's like a
skin booster or something. Yeah, I know the tension.
I mean, look, there's a lot of medicinal benefits with Botox,
you know, we always laugh about it.
But like, if, you know, it's, it really works.
Yeah. And there's even like a lot of
stories even around depression and stuff that because you
can't, you know, make the really, really like sad, you
know, really depressed movements anymore that you even feel less
depressed and. Stuff.
Amazing. So give me a bit more, yeah.
Literally. I remember doing that actually,
on the worst New Year's of my life.
Was it New Year's Day? No, I think it was the no, it
was New Year's Eve and I went into injectual.
It wasn't this one. It was the New Year's Eve
before. And I've been on death's door,
crying, sobbing, crashing out left, right and centre.
And I went to injectual and he was like, So what are we doing?
Are we going to do like a freeze?
We're going to do something light.
And I'm like, I was like, please just make it look like I've
never cried in my life. Like get rid of whatever the
fuck is going on in my face. I don't want to look sad
anymore. Honestly, it made a huge
difference. I mean, then you just see the,
the the the white. Tear.
And I'm just like Lauren Conrad. Honestly, say save my year
because I think loads of people are able to.
I mean, I had to carry on. I mean, I went through a really,
really hard year and I had to carry on going to events.
I had to carry on doing the podcast and I had to make it
look like I hadn't been crying my eyes out every single day and
genuinely like having Botox and having skin treatments really
helped. Can I ask a question to you by
the way? Like, like how, how long did it
take you to like, you know, feel like, feel normal again, like.
After being so depressed, yeah, was.
That do you mean like this this? Yeah, so it was that was.
Too much a break. Up so yeah, so it was the break
up. So the break up happened end of
24. And then 2025 was a rough ride,
but also 2024 was also hard as well.
And then, but I think it's, it hasn't been linear, you know,
like it took me so long just to, I think what I was doing, to be
honest, was like burning the candle at both ends.
Like quite extremely, like I was working a lot, but I was also
like going out every single night.
I could not stay in because I was like, if I stay in, you have
to, I have to think about it and I can't do that.
So I was exhausted, like utterly exhausted.
So I think I'm still recovering from like the burnout of all of
that. And I think it's like some days
you just have good days, bad days, good days, bad days.
And you have to kind of, I think my main thing is is that I've
proved how resilient I am. And that's one thing that I'm
really glad that like, I kind of have and and I'm glad that I
carried on with the business and everything else when I felt like
I couldn't, you know, and I was just like, no, sometimes you
just have to, you know, if you have a choice or, you know, but
it's also because I have so much love for this.
That was like trying to kind of like carry all of that on.
But I would say that, like, heartbreak is one of the worst
things that someone can go through.
Oh, sweetie. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Are you seeing anyone at the moment?
Are we going to out them? No, no, no, that's like
honestly, I look at another day dating.
I find dating as a transformer really, really, really like
look. Dating general is tough that's.
What I was going to ask as a trans woman, it's like a big
topic I've seen on like TikTok, especially Belpre.
See my friend, I know she's friends with you.
She talks a lot about dating on TikTok and I was.
Interested. It's look, it's, it's just a
really, really, really sucks because to be honest, Well, I
mean, it probably sucks because men suck.
I mean, yeah. Like this is a good topic
actually. Let's talk about men suck, Yeah?
And are you fully, are you fully straight as well?
No, no, no, I'm pansexual. But.
Pansexual. Bisexual.
So like have dated girls before, but and like, you know, could be
completely transparent, like only have been intimate after
transitioning with a girl because like before I just, I
obviously couldn't, I couldn't be intimate with anyone really.
But especially like after transitioning, I, I really, you
know, started to explore myself and felt really like myself.
But for some reason I I just feel more it just feels more
natural to dates with a guy unfortunately Really.
Unfortunately. It really like, I don't know
what it is, but it's just like, you know.
Is there an element of like a bit of gender dysphoria that
goes into that, do you reckon at all?
Or do you just think it's just like personal preference?
I. Think no, it's just like,
obviously I think I just want to feel it's not even protect, but
it's more like I I maybe I'm just like craving that male
role, even though like it, that doesn't even really change
anything. Maybe it's It's still like I'm
figuring all of that out, but it's like.
I'll never forget Caitlyn Jenner saying that once, actually, was
she? What do you?
Think. I mean, let's hate that that
cretent of a human. So how do you feel that one of
the biggest trans. Women, I mean, such a
disappointment. Come on.
That is just like, what a fucking disappointment.
I think that she's trolling everyone by this point.
I genuinely like think I. Hope so.
Yeah, I really hope so. I mean, like literally every
single, like, you know what? I don't even want to give that
person. No.
Like I just, I'm like, there's so much wrong there.
Like, you know, she had such an opportunity there.
And like anything I see about Gaitlin, I'm just like, oh, I, I
can't, I literally. She's not one of us.
Yeah, not. One of us, you know what I mean?
Like, it's just like, oh, just any, everything.
Like just anything. Everything.
It's worse than no representation at some point,
like you're actually just destroying.
Like in a building we are. I think everybody had hope, you
know? But then it's like, yeah, I
just. She's just insane.
I I don't even know how to discuss that because Caitlin,
yeah, at least she fuck you, Caitlin.
Yeah. Offence.
Like it's just. No, Oh no, I mean offence.
Yeah, literally. Fuck you, Caitlin.
Fuck you, Caitlin.
Yeah, I think that that's interesting though, like kind of
going back to the guys as well, because obviously I think that
that that I remember, like I said, like she did say something
that she preferred to have been because of that reason.
But I think that everything's always a journey, right?
And like some people like find their sexual orientation like a
bit of a journey too, and kind of like figuring out because
I've kind of noticed the way in which women are now, they're
kind of stepping up into more of like a gentleman role than like
men ever have too. Like I feel way more taken care
of by a woman than I ever did by by a man because.
Yeah, no, but like and look, that's also what I'm still
discovering now, you know, like sometimes I'm like I've I'm an
outer night and then I meet a girl and that I really like her
and then she's actually like treating me like a general man.
I'm like, oh, this actually, this actually feels amazing.
So if. She gets the CBD for you, pays
for everything. You're like this.
Is amazing. It's not even like I don't even
care about her paying for it. It's more like, you know, it's
even just like, you know, the control arm, the arm around me
and just like Litchy, like diamond beautiful like all this
things. I'm like, OK, this could really
work. So I don't know, you never you
never know, but it's maybe just like something that's still
innately in me that I'm like seeing that that Prince fantasy.
You know what? I.
Mean and I think it's also like a lot of people like grow up
with wanting like a male validation, right?
It's huge. It's so indoctrinated into like
everything and I feel because it is difficult for trans.
Women. Yeah, literally it's difficult
for trans women to date within, Oh my gosh, kind of space.
And like, I feel like a lot of them, I mean, I know that a lot
of them would love to date a trans woman.
It's not that. It's about them being whether
somebody knew that their partner was trans for them because
they've got this kind of internalised there.
There is just just a widespread indoctrination across all
species. I feel at this point where it's
like people don't even have their own thoughts anymore.
Like they just kind of go along with whatever someone said.
Was the right? No, but it's just difficult, you
know? Francis Exactly.
Dating someone. We've got.
Like a lovely, a lovely sis sis guy.
But like, yeah, it's just like really.
I find it really, really difficult to date someone.
And then there's, you know, completely transparent.
There's also like I'm, I'm post stoppage that even like adds in
a different layer and you know what I mean?
Like it's, it's really, it's a really tricky thing to navigate.
Yeah. But also at the same time also
I'm, I feel sometimes like I'm generally too busy to properly
date. Yeah.
So there's also also that. So I.
Feel like, yeah, I feel like it can be tricky.
I think as well, because I mean it.
It makes me laugh sometimes because the guys be like,
they're going to think I'm gay. And it's like, I'm not being
funny. You're more of a woman than I
am. I'm looking at you.
And I'm like, you are so feminine.
You are a woman through and through, you know?
And if a guy wanted to date you, that makes him, like, the
furthest thing from gay, surely. Wouldn't they just want to?
Be with a man that's exactly a thing, right?
Like there's a lot of guys that I didn't date and then or even
like me, you know, my doubts. And then it's like you can just
see the wheel shirting all of a sudden, you know, and say like
find out or you tell them and like it literally opens up this
Pandora box and I'm like, I don't have time for this, you
know what I mean? Like I don't have the energy for
this. You figure all of that out on
your own. I'm not here to, you know what I
mean, like so. It's tricky.
It's tricky because it's like a constant coming out as well.
Yeah, exactly that that as well. I think also like this is my
area of really like focusing on on business and like really like
growing all of that and I'm quite black and white.
I can only focus my attention on that many things like dating.
Look, I said no, if you really well, for me it like it's, it's
almost like it takes up a lot of mental capacity.
Yeah, it does. Like especially like the first
stages of dating, especially of like planning dates and stuff
really takes up some mental capacity.
So I'm like, I need to be in the right state of mind.
And then sometimes I am. And then I book seven dates in a
week and then. You just fancy going out for
dinner? Well.
Exactly. But but yeah, it just.
I think as well, like there's always, there's always like a
pressure to date, isn't there? I feel like people are always.
I don't I never really, I don't really feel that I just like,
you know, I, I do I'm now in the phase of my life I'm like, OK,
this, this would be nice. I was a five years ago or
something I was teaching like, oh, absolutely no, I don't.
I don't even want to date someone.
But now I'm like, OK, it would be nice, you know, I.
But it's the right person. I need to be the right person
and also like at the right time. So yeah, let's see if it comes
along. If it doesn't, you know, who
cares? I lead a a fabulous life anyway.
I mean, you do. I always watch your videos and
photos and I'm like, what is she?
Well, up to now, where is she that dog come from?
Like like a diamond. This is amazing.
I love it. You're going to be like the next
Heidi Cream. I feel like you're just going to
get to another level. Well, where's Spencer Pratt, I
guess. No, I love it.
And I think that as well with injectual, it's kind of taken
its natural path for you into your kind of like a sub genre of
the brand, which is transjectual too, which so that's all around
gender affirming. Yeah, right.
So that's actually what I really want to focus on.
So this year coming up is basically the opening of the
third location, which is planned for October, which is going to
be amazing in Elephant and Castle.
Super excited about, but at the same time, and I'm literally
like fine tuning this at the moment, just like legally and
stuff. And I once in transjector to be
its own location as quickly as possible because at the moment
it's more like a service and its own website, but I want that to
be its own location with trans people.
I have a place to go to where they can get literally
everything. So surgery, all the treatments,
hair removal, electrolysis, voice feminization therapy, we
want to we want to part while we're partnering because we're
like in discussions with them with unhealth care so that we
can also partner with, with hormones.
So it's literally like a place we can come for your full
transition, basically for your full medical transition.
Obviously not everybody needs medical services to transition.
If you want to, that's basically a one stop shop where you can go
for everything in London. Would it be for trans men as
well? Yeah, yeah, everyone for
everybody on the spectrum basically.
So people that are you know gender diverse, non binary like
everyone is, is very welcome. And what I'm basically doing at
the moment is creating a structure we will have fun next
to it. So percentage of, so Transjector
will be its own business and then we'll be, there will be a
funds, Transjector funds and a percentage of profits of
injectable each year will go into that funds.
Transjectual itself will obviously do fundraisers and
stuff, but Transjectual Ltd, all the perfect they make, they make
will go directly into that fund as well.
And I'm fundraising for Transjectual as well.
So we can actually have its own location.
And we will do this each three months we'll have people
applying for the funds and they will either have 100% or 50% of
their care fully funded. Incredible.
So we will, you know, like we will hopefully be able to help
the most vulnerable people, yeah, either fully free or as
affordable as possible because. It's not, you know, it's such it
shouldn't be a luxury to be able to be who you are.
But unfortunately. I mean, I'm also at the moment,
it's like the waiting list for seven years.
Like if I would have had to wait seven years to start my journey,
I wouldn't be here right now. You know, like it's just, it's.
Amazing that you're taking. Yeah, so look and I, I'm like
it's taking longer than expected, but also I think I
need to do this really well. And I think transgender all at
the time I launched a little bit too soon.
I wanted to like get it out there, but I now want to do it
properly, have our own location as quickly as possible.
I have as many services as possible.
Figure this out, right? Two of my practitioners really
want to be on boards as well, Tony and Zane.
And like, you know, I've got amazing trans people working at
a business, Francis being one of them.
And it's so inclusive, like as soon as you walk in, it's just
so inclusive. Like even as a gay woman, like
always felt very, very welcome there because it's such a kind
of like straight girly kind of thing before as well.
I feel like going to the clinic like the mums would.
Go no, exactly. You know, and it used to always
be like that and like I never wanted the clinic to feel
gendered in any way, you know, like we even have like straight
CIS man Boo, you know what I mean?
Like I'm just. Joking, they get charged double.
Well, you know, they're they're like everybody comes, you know,
everybody's comes to the clinic. Like I always say, like where
every every other clinic focuses on one demographic.
Yeah, the one, you know, the slightly older and stuff.
We focus on everybody else. So you.
Can definitely feel it when you're in there.
There's never been a moment where I appreciate I would ever
feel uncomfortable or not. Welcome.
No, you know, and like, sometimes it's lovely to hear
even feedback from for my practitioners.
You know, that's what I literally do it for like when
they send me messages as well or we get refused.
My practitioner are like, oh, today I don't think I I treated
a single non sis or non career person.
I was like, great, you know, fabulous.
But you know, I mean they, they, they tell me that experiences I
had like this one non binary person, 1-2 trans men.
And then you know what I mean? Like just say hearing about your
day and how it like. Make them feel better about
their day. Make the people feel better,
like you. Just, you know, it feels
incredible, you know? It's much better than just your
run of the old male like 50 year old housewife that just like on
repeat, they all look the same, exactly the same story and they
all hate their husbands. Yeah, yeah, that is great.
And I think, I mean, looking, looking at it from like an
outsider's perspective as well. I've noticed that like it's
funny that we talked that the world is centred around men
because it is like around CIS straight white men.
The world is just centred around them.
And two things I wanted to say was men only ever have a problem
with men when they want to transition into a woman.
I feel like they start to be like OK.
That's the only. That's the.
It's like, oh, OK, this is an easy target now, like this is a
trans woman. Now we're going to go for them.
But as a man, No, but there's there seems to be quite a big
theme around this because I'm not by the way, I'm not nobody
come for me. I'm not saying that trans men
don't get hate because they definitely do.
But when we're talking about headlines, when we're talking
about pitchforking, it's always for the trans women always.
And so that's one thing that always kind of it, it sparks
something in my brain because I go, this isn't just about trans
people. This is this is a very fuelled
agenda here. It's also wrapped within
misogyny. For sure.
Because nobody hates women more than these ugly straight sis,
white men. They're always ugly.
Yeah. They just, they, they don't, you
know, And I think that there's a real lack of respect there.
And it's it's the tailors oldest time as people hating things
that they can't understand or something that they're scared
of. And and what's to be scared of?
Literally fuck all. Literally fuck yeah.
I think that hating people is never going to make you gain us
go away. It's never going to make your
gender dysphoria go away. But I'm talking about these men,
by the way. Yeah, they it's all riddled
within them, you know. Yeah, look like, I don't even
know how to approach this, but it's like, you know, let's hope
it just gets better. And I, I feel like, you know,
the only way to do that is actually by positive
representation. And you know, I mean, like also
showing that trans people are just literally people trying to
live their lives. You know what I mean?
Like we're just literally trying to exist and just be like, Trump
you. Just want to shoot everyone.
Yeah. Do you know all the shooters are
trans and like what do you mean? Oh my God, yeah.
With that Kirk guy that that it was something was trans.
The bullet was trans. The bullets were trans, the gun
was trans, the rumour trans it was.
Insane, it was insane. Such a reach.
But yeah, it's just yeah, I mean, look, we've we've got it
bad now, but hopefully I feel like the only way to to change
it is like to change the narrative and like, you know, to
to have positive representation and look, I never tried to focus
on anything too negative. I'm just like, look, we there's
just work to be done here, you know what I mean?
Like, let's focus on the positives here.
You don't always want to feel like you're fighting just to be
yourself, either right or to be accepted.
I think exactly. It's representation is just so
important. And that's up to a lot of
agencies put it out there. But then that's why we love
having such free media with the podcast, because for us, we can
do whatever we want. I haven't got anybody saying you
can't do this. Yeah, exactly.
And so the more, and I'm really hoping I know that the lessons
will absolutely love you and fall in love with you, but it's
being able to to put people like you out there that is such a
positive representation. And like Francis as well, had to
get your next deeper, deeper in the corner.
But but obviously all of the other beautiful transference
that I do have too. And I think that being able to
like showcase that and not be like, this is not a spectacle.
This is not something that's so like heinous or out of the
ordinary or scary or whatever. Like I said, people are always
scared of what they don't know. They don't know it because they
haven't. Seen it and exactly.
Able to see it is so important. And one last question I wanted
to ask you as well. So I know that obviously your
experience of of when you were younger growing up, like as a
boy, I know that it was quite well.
It was very difficult, very difficult to say the least.
And you'd obviously written your letters very, very early on in
life at six years old and you'd kind of understood that.
However, kind of putting all of that aside, do you feel like
there was a difference in the way that you were treated when
you were presenting as a man versus presenting as a woman?
Or do you think that you had your blinkers on a little bit
too much in the kind of like a self?
Yes, expectations were you know, you'd notice that expectations
are way lower and now they're transitions.
But like, and literally like one of my, the sisters of one of my
best friends growing up, she always said to she was a
beautiful blonde woman. And she said people
underestimating me because of like what I look like is my
biggest superpower. And I found that really powerful
and I always. Remember, I love that.
Actually, because like, you know, she would always prove
them wrong and like, you know, she was super smart super, but
like she literally was like we will always underestimate me,
but like I will, I will use that to my advantage.
Think I'm a bit though, yeah. You know what I mean?
And like, that's also like the way I always like approach that.
And I, I'm really glad that she, you know, that I remembered that
because like it's, it's true. People, the expectations are way
less sometimes to our detriment. Like, you know, when we have
builders in our into our clinic, they literally, you know, think
that we are too. You know, me and my sister are
too stupid bimbles that are standing there.
They have no idea. But we now know what's what's
up. You know, maybe it was the first
clinic nots but. Just.
For a second one, I turned around.
We now know what's up and yeah, I, I noticed getting
underestimated. Fortunately, I noticed that in
that, that, but often in most things, I try to use that to my
advantage because it's, you know, it's really powerful as
well to, to prove people wrong in a way, you know what I mean?
Like. But before your transition, did
you feel like you could get away with doing less and being
praised for it, or do you think it was actually the opposite?
Because I do also think that there's a lot of pressure.
There's a lot. Yeah, I, I mean, look, there's
indeed there's a lot of, there's a lot of pressure.
And did you feel safer or not really?
No, I'd, I'd like as in like safer, like even like being out
and about. Yeah, like walking down the
street. I mean, for sure, yes, OK,
obviously, yeah. I mean, look, you know, you just
know what obviously you're you're a target, right?
Like as AI think a lesson you learn very quickly as a trans
woman, as a woman, you're lichy. You know, a target perfs to
creepers to to everybody. You know, it's like at the end
of the day, even as an effeminate male and stuff like
you, you're just a quicker target and then everybody else
you're just, I don't even remember any moments because I
never was like a masculine man or something, you know what I
mean? I don't.
Probably get more dangerous. Yeah, like literally, I don't
remember a time where I was like, you know, so I, I feel
like I was, I've always been a bit of a target anyway.
And like I've always felt, you know, we, I think every girl,
unfortunately, most girls growing up, they were very
quickly or effeminate males or whatever they feel they, they
learn very quickly. You have to be vigilant, you
know, like, even in, in a taxi and like, you know, there's,
there's creepers everywhere. God I know fight or flight is
fully activated. All time, actually, you know,
and at night, like, you can't just go alone on the street.
You have to be vigilant at all times, unfortunately.
Yeah. Have you got the heels on
though? Except for like, yeah, you could
do some damage, yeah. I'm also quite tall and stuff.
Just one little like. Yeah, yeah.
But yeah, look, yeah, I mean. But there's not like notable
different, I think like you were saying, because you are more
effeminate then it's not like I'm asking some like expertly
like man, that is a very, very strong difference.
Caitlyn. Caitlyn on it.
Bruce Jenner? Probably no, Didn't have all
that growing up, but yeah, I know.
I think I've always felt quite. Scared.
I've been scared since day one. Literally so.
So yeah, there's not that much difference.
I mean, I think it's, it's so interesting because obviously
I've known you for years on my like fleeting visits to
injectable, but never known your story.
And it's really admirable. And the way in which you handled
it is incredible. And now what you've done with
your pain, with your time, with your experiences, and actually
poured it into something that is so powerful and is life
changing. Yeah, yeah.
And it has a mixture of your passions, but also your past.
And so it means it's something that's so close to to your
heart. And that's for sure.
That's when you know that you're doing the right thing and.
I also just literally genuinely love it.
Yeah, I literally love the business and I love the people
that work for it and I love what we do and stuff.
So it's like, yeah, no, it's, I mean, look, it's it's and I even
the industry and so I really, really genuinely have such a
passion for it so. Oh God, everyone's got to sign
up to injection right now. Do you know how many people ask
me? They they always ask me like,
what did you have done? What did you have done?
And I have. I will tell them everything
always. I hate so many people gatekeep.
Oh my God. It's like the people who have
suddenly all lost like 2 stone and they're like, no, I'm not an
Ozempic. What do you mean?
Yes, you are. Yes you are, Rachel.
And that's fine, Rachel. You've been trying to lose
weight for 10 years that I've known you and all of a sudden
you've dropped it and you're not on his end.
Oh my God, no. I'm a.
I'm a I'm a I'm. A big believer for.
For medical aesthetics in general, like I I like I'm a I'm
the example for medical aesthetic.
I'm I'm mate for medical aesthetics, you know, like even
now I can do Monjaro and stuff even like I I Michael the
Dositan stuff because I hate to do.
Hungry. It's your.
Microdosos. I think that's the funniest.
Thing. Yeah, I'm microdose Manjaro.
I love it. How do you what just a little
bit and you're like a small. Dose of gels 1 pen lost me like
3 or 4 months. It's amazing because I would
have footnose as well, like you know, I like otherwise I'm
sitting in the front. Of a busy woman.
In front of So Fun, I'm like, oh, you know, I keep eating and
I'm just like, oh, I cancel it. Out I said this celeb, I said
now that I'm not in my like going out every night era, I'm
actually gaining weight because now I'm just like watching TV
later on and then I'm like. You're on the pen, we can't get
you on the pen micro doses. Yeah, literally.
And I'm like, God, why am I getting up to the kitchen for
like the fifth time? Because I'm bored.
That's why he's yelling about talking you.
Don't have to. Nobody forced me to the kitchen.
Exactly. Nobody like you don't have to.
We. Yeah, You're the bed, you know.
What I know that's why I love the ADHD medications it, well, I
call it my Ozempic because it completely takes your desire
away from food. Oh, here we go.
Highly. It's amazing, all of them, That
an Ozempic. You'll never see me ever again.
I'll turn to the side of it. By sprayer.
Yeah. No, but I.
No, but I like I don't, I don't want to you know, I don't want
to be hyper skinny. I don't want, you know what I
mean? I just.
I also don't want that hot. I don't.
I don't like this kind of new trend where everyone's getting
like heroin chic, skinny. No, exactly.
It doesn't look good. Because I still love to eat too
much as well. You know what I mean?
Like I'm just and at another day.
This also true. I like I am really busy so I'm
like that pen really helps to just keep me.
You've given me an idea. Thank you very much.
You'll feel literally. Yeah, no, literally injectualism
pics. They're like, I yeah, I think
whenever somebody asks me whatever I've had done, I do
yeah. I never get to keep anything.
I'm like, please just take a look at this list.
And there's no, there's no, no shame in it.
No, no. Well, Joel, thank you so much
for coming on. Thanks for having me.
And guys, I'm going to put all of Joel's Instagram.
Have you got TikTok? Yeah, we've got, well, I don't
injectionally inject, Yeah. Fantastic.
Well, I'll put all of it in the buyer so you guys can have a
little and become just as obsessed as well as we are.
Oh. What's the outro by lesbian?
Bye, lesbian. We love you lesbians.
We'll speak to you next week. Bye.
Bye, Caitlin. Yes.
Fuck you, Caitlin.