1 00:00:13,490 --> 00:00:17,090 Hello, welcome everyone to this week's episode of the Lesbian 2 00:00:17,090 --> 00:00:20,610 Supper Club podcast. You are joined by Scarlet today. 3 00:00:20,650 --> 00:00:26,450 I'm feeling very well planned out this morning and I feel like 4 00:00:26,450 --> 00:00:29,890 I've upgraded a bit because today I'm sat in the Spotify 5 00:00:29,890 --> 00:00:33,610 studios and it's all been set up for me. 6 00:00:33,610 --> 00:00:35,930 So there's not been chaos. I've not had living tears 7 00:00:35,930 --> 00:00:37,330 before. I've hit record today. 8 00:00:37,690 --> 00:00:40,410 So we're on a really good, we're on a good trajectory this 9 00:00:40,410 --> 00:00:43,800 morning. I am joined today by 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,600 singer-songwriter and music producer Shura, who I have 11 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:53,080 briefed and said that I will ask to introduce herself, which I'm 12 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,080 not sure that you're amazing at, but I'm going to let you take a 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,280 stab at it anyway. I'm I'm the worst at introducing 14 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,800 myself in social situations, but especially in professional 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,879 situations, so I'll just go with. 16 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:08,800 Have you got a fun fact? Like I, I have too many fun 17 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,760 facts. But yeah, my name is Shura. 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,280 I am a singer-songwriter and producer and lesbian. 19 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,440 That's always key. We were talking about my twin 20 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,120 earlier. So I'll, I'll, my fun fact will 21 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,560 be I have a twin who is also gay called Nick. 22 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,840 So hi, Nick. You have a twin that looks 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,240 mysteriously like you, which I told you when we were getting 24 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:37,000 coffee that I have known of Shura since you released Touch 25 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:42,480 back in 2014. And I moved to London in 2017. 26 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,480 And when I was outside Ladbroke Grove station, I saw your 27 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,760 brother, who I thought was you and got a bit of gay panic and 28 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,360 messaged my girlfriend at the time and was like, I'm next to 29 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,240 Shura at Ladbroke Grove station. And then I thought, no, I don't 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,000 think that is Shura. And then realized that actually 31 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:05,880 you have a twin brother who was in your music video of Touch and 32 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,360 talking of touch. I just want to jump straight 33 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,000 into that because to put it lightly or bluntly, or have we 34 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:19,320 want to put it, I think that was like for me, an iconic moment in 35 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,120 my life. Like I remember I came out when 36 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,800 I was, I came out in 2013, like back end of 2013. 37 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,480 And I've said on the podcast before, came out, knew I was gay 38 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,920 for five years up to like up to coming out, but finally came 39 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:37,680 out. When I came out, it was like 40 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,000 black and white. As soon as I'd kind of said the 41 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,400 words, I was. So I went from being in the 42 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,720 closet to being like disgracefully unapologetic. 43 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:47,920 Like I would argue with anyone about gay rights. 44 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:52,600 Like I went from being scared to being like so fully convicted. 45 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,800 And I remember, and again I've said this a few times, my 46 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:00,760 girlfriend at the time was at Bath University and she was on 47 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,240 the football team at Bath University. 48 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,400 So it's a classic. Of course there's a load of 49 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:10,200 lesbians in the football team. And I just remember once we were 50 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,160 all somewhere probably in like the fucking social club having 51 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:18,520 like 2 LB pints and someone sent in the group chat being like, so 52 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:24,040 we call lesbians Jans being like, Oh my God, some musician 53 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,960 Jan has just released this music video and it's fucking like 54 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:33,000 iconic. And we all like pulled up this 55 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,120 video and we were like, Oh my God, there's actual fucking 56 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,240 lesbians on screens in front of us. 57 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,360 And not just like one lesbian that was like a few less. 58 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,760 There wasn't like a token lesbian thing going on. 59 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,560 It was like, no, this is an existence of just like queer 60 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:54,720 women and queer people just generally in lots of different 61 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,120 phases of their life from lots of different, you know, clearly 62 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:01,240 backgrounds and cultures. And I think like I, I distinctly 63 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:08,080 remember it almost becoming like being that young queer person, 64 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,840 especially at the time of when it was released where there was, 65 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,040 that was quite literally fuck all out there really. 66 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:20,440 That being like this is like was such like a groundbreaking thing 67 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,680 for us to see. And I'm really interested as to 68 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,360 how you got there and really how you got the fucking balls to do 69 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:31,480 that because I've released this podcast like 3 years ago. 70 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,520 But that was after gay rights become huge on TikTok, like 71 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,760 thanks to TikTok at the time, because I don't know what that 72 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,800 done for like the queer revolution, but everyone was 73 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,520 like at home with their husbands or their wives being in 74 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,720 heterosexual relationships then being like, fuck, I might be 75 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:46,800 gay. And I think that kind of 76 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:50,800 spiralled out a lot of like accessibility throughout the 77 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,360 world. You could see people from in 78 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,160 queer situations or queer people a lot more than you could 79 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,040 before, even by comparison to Instagram. 80 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,920 And so that kind of made me feel a bit more confident to do this 81 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,280 podcast and like release something with gay associated to 82 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:09,480 it, even though my daily life was so proud. 83 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,840 So I want to kind of ask, what was the driving factor behind 84 00:05:14,840 --> 00:05:16,040 that and how did that come about? 85 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,840 And yeah, how did you get it? Get it fucking approved even, or 86 00:05:19,840 --> 00:05:21,840 was that easy? What would that look like? 87 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:26,160 It's such a, it's just, it's firstly, it was like a very wild 88 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,640 experience also to, to be on the receiving end of because 89 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,840 obviously when you create anything, I don't think you 90 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:38,000 necessarily expect the reaction that you sometimes get, you 91 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,120 know, and that was just kind of for a, from a lesbian of a 92 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,280 certain age, a kind of iconic, I think the moment and a really 93 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:48,840 kind of formative experience and that, you know, so it's weird to 94 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:52,680 have made something that that feels like it was that for 95 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,840 people. But in terms of sort of arriving 96 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:59,520 at it, you know, I, I, I wasn't signed to a label. 97 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,760 It was just me and my manager at the time. 98 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,640 I'd, I'd written this song that I, I knew it was kind of 99 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,120 special. I, I wasn't really sure why and 100 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,600 I needed to make a music video and I was working full time at 101 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:17,600 that point in a post production studio. 102 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:22,320 So I, I knew I could edit. So I was like, OK, well, we just 103 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,000 need to film it. And I had this sort of, you 104 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,480 know, obviously the song itself is, is about a kind of savage 105 00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:34,720 sort of breakup and sort of having, I guess sort of a 106 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:40,480 romantic friendship post, which is just feels like very queer as 107 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,480 a, as a kind of experience. It's just like you sort of still 108 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,040 rely on that person that's no longer your partner, but you 109 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,480 sort of, there's still this sort of tension or there's still 110 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,800 something kind of going on. And I, I just really wanted to, 111 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:58,880 I knew I wanted to film couples kissing and I knew I wanted it 112 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,480 to be in super, super slow motion. 113 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,400 So we got this kind of phantom camera that you could only shoot 114 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,640 for kind of three seconds, but it would be like a minute and a 115 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,800 half a footage or something like that. 116 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,760 And, you know, there was no budget. 117 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:15,040 I think I borrowed like £250 from my dad to rent the camera. 118 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,400 And I just sort of asked my contacts and where I work to 119 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:23,040 like, can you be the DOP? My friend Lizzie was a producer 120 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,520 and was like, I'll produce it. And yeah, I just asked all of my 121 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,800 friends, basically everyone that I knew particularly like a lot 122 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,200 of my friends were a queer and but also we did have, you know, 123 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,760 straight people in the video because I I wanted it to be like 124 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:38,760 that full. Yeah. 125 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,040 Spectrum And it was just the most like amazing day. 126 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,120 We had these smoke grenades that Lizzie the producer burnt her 127 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,560 finger on in the first day. And I just remember being like, 128 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,600 Oh my God, this is slow in France. 129 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,200 And we all had like black snot for for days afterwards because 130 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,160 of all the like all the smoke bombs, like just going. 131 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,880 In and. Doing it inside, there's no 132 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,520 ventilation. It was probably like super 133 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,560 legal. And I remember that night we 134 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,640 took the hard drives with the footage to a friend's house and 135 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,000 it was everyone, the cast of the video, and we just put it on the 136 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,520 on the laptop or whatever and watched it. 137 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,920 And we were just like, Oh my God. 138 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,360 You look amazing. You look, because no one had 139 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,760 ever really seen themselves snogging before, it's not 140 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:28,440 something you really see yourself do. 141 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,240 And also, you know, it's a really vulnerable thing being 142 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,559 like, here, please snog in front of a camera. 143 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,240 Some people were couples. Some people had never even met, 144 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,320 you know, So it's kind of some people were like besties but 145 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,039 like, weren't romantically involved. 146 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,000 But we all got really emotional and we just said, this is 147 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,040 gorgeous. And I sort of ended up cutting 148 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,800 it together kind of at the weekends or after work and put 149 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,400 it out and just it it sort of blew up in a in a way that 150 00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:59,800 honestly, I thought I was, I thought I'd kind of found a 151 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,160 glitch in the system. Yeah. 152 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,080 Because whenever I refreshed the video on YouTube, it just, it 153 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:06,800 would have like, yeah, by like 1000 hours. 154 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,920 It was like. So you didn't have any really 155 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,200 social strategy, You just literally posted it on YouTube 156 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,560 and just thought, oh, this will just go into the kind of echo 157 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:15,520 chamber I suppose. I. 158 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,640 I, I had no plan like beyond I really want to make this. 159 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:25,640 I think it's gorgeous. Put it up and the, the response 160 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,440 was wild. And that's when suddenly I was 161 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,280 like, oh, now I'm on a treadmill. 162 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:34,280 Now I'm running at top speed. Now I have like people asking me 163 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,160 to tour and I have 3 songs. Wow. 164 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,400 You know, so it was, it was just, I think actually if I knew 165 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,680 or had a sense of that happening, I might have waited 166 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,280 to put that out a few months later. 167 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:48,520 But then of course it may not have. 168 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:50,560 That's the thing, right? Timing, right? 169 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:52,200 Yeah, it's. It's just like a zeitgeist 170 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:52,680 thing. I think. 171 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:56,160 Also, there'd been another video that week with models snogging 172 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,840 and and so like snogging was just particularly in, you know. 173 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,680 It was very serendipitous. Yeah, it was just, it's one of 174 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:05,520 those things that you just could not plan and I'm so grateful for 175 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,320 it. But it was also like absolutely 176 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,240 bonkers and men that I was sprinting from from then till 177 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:12,680 now basically. Yeah, yeah. 178 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,840 You've just about caught up or catching up and then you're just 179 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,920 going to do it all over again. Yeah, great. 180 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,400 Yeah. I mean, it was, it was iconic. 181 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,320 And did you get any, was there any negative feedback that come 182 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,000 back or was it generally positive? 183 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,320 Yeah, it was definitely. There were people who were like, 184 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,640 this is. Wrong and I actually went troll. 185 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,600 Yeah, you, you definitely had that. 186 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,960 But it was surprising how because it it because it had 187 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,840 become like, because it had blown up. 188 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,920 And I think so many queer friend groups were like, have you seen 189 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,320 this, sharing it, that the balance, it was just 190 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,040 overwhelmingly positive. So I did. 191 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:53,520 My lot probably made-up at least 100K, so you can thank us all. 192 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,360 Thank you so much. Because yeah, it just rippled 193 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,800 through and even now, I mean touch for me, it was like it was 194 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:05,680 so like such a big kind of just. I remember that summer. 195 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:07,560 It was like the song of the summer for us. 196 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:14,600 I remember it just went like went on for so long that it 2014 197 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,320 was one of my favorite, my favorite years just because I 198 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:18,960 think it was such a liberating year. 199 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,720 And even now, like touches on my light song still. 200 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,320 And when I come through, like when I am, what's it going to be 201 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:26,920 like? I think that whole like 202 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,280 collection of that era is like so poignant to me that when I 203 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,400 listen to it, it takes me back to some of like the best times 204 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,640 of my life. And I think to be able to write 205 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,360 music and also portray music, particularly with that queer 206 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,320 lens on it, because until recently we did, we had nothing, 207 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,720 like barely anything to relate to and feel like outside of our 208 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,800 friendship groups that we kind of probably all just crash into 209 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,600 each other in one way or another and are like, OK, we're friends 210 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,360 now because we've got this thing in common. 211 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,360 Outside of that, there was just, there was nothing. 212 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,880 And I, yeah, that it was so. And I'm just speaking for 213 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,760 myself, but I know I speak for so many people on that, that it 214 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,960 was just such a turning point, I think, in the community and you 215 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,640 must be really proud of. Well, I think also when making 216 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,080 it, it felt, which is why it's sort of interesting 10 years 217 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,400 later being here and putting out another record and actually 218 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,600 making another video, which I, I can't go into too much detail 219 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,520 about yet. But I think when that comes out, 220 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,560 the sort of it'll become clear sort of what I'm what I'm 221 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:32,080 hinting at. But like, I think making that in 222 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,400 that moment, it was, you know, a group of queer friends who all 223 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,920 kind of really loved each other, who were all really pulling 224 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:45,440 together to do 1 beautiful thing at a time where it felt very 225 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,560 much like everything was always going to get better and now was 226 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:52,040 our time. You know, of course there were 227 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,760 queer artists before. And, you know, I think we have 228 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,320 to like, I certainly have to just give a little nod to Tegan 229 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,240 and Sarah, who were the only queer musicians I knew of when I 230 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,600 was a teenager because I googled it in my attic. 231 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,760 You know, they've been around. But certainly 2014 it it did 232 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:15,120 feel like I was kind of a Lone Ranger to some degree or, you 233 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,520 know, and the fact that I was sort of unapologetically queer 234 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:24,000 from from the girl. It wasn't like I was releasing 235 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,680 music then I, you know, revealed it or I think it was just like 236 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:31,520 any, certainly any lesbian watching would have been like, 237 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:32,760 this is a lesbian. Person. 238 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,160 Yeah, the whole static is a nod, like we're all on the same. 239 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,640 Page yeah, it may, it may not have been in the press release, 240 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,200 but it wasn't like a a secret. Yeah. 241 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:44,440 And so, yeah, it was just it was a really beautiful moment in 242 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:45,840 time. And I love that actually, what 243 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,640 what you say about music about and the power of music to sort 244 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,160 of really take you back in time, like to a moment, to A, to a 245 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,800 relationship, to a feeling, to A, to a place. 246 00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:03,360 But yeah, so it's, it's and it's funny now and amazing now that I 247 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,160 am not the only queer. There's so many. 248 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,960 I mean, even just between releasing my last record, which 249 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,560 was 2019, right before the pandemic, and now I'm like, 250 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,600 yeah, it's like you, you cannot go a week without a queer person 251 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,080 releasing an amazing song. And I'm like, this is how it 252 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,520 should be. This is how it always should 253 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,240 have been. And it's fantastic. 254 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,520 But yeah, like at that time it was, yeah, it was just a 255 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,160 different era. But now whilst we have that, 256 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:36,040 there's also this feeling of, oh, it's not always going to be 257 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,560 better. And we do have to really fight 258 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,160 for, for kind of rights of everyone under the umbrella. 259 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,360 And it's kind of like an It's very weird to know that progress 260 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,760 isn't guaranteed. Well, we have gone back. 261 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,040 I genuinely, I agree what you said there about there was so 262 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,760 much kind of optimism built into that. 263 00:14:55,760 --> 00:15:00,600 Yeah, I completely agree. Like, although it was so new to 264 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:06,280 me, it was it, it, it just become like such a positive 265 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:07,640 thing in my life. And I love what you say about 266 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,960 kind of all your friends coming together because I've done an 267 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,600 episode a couple of weeks ago with a friend and I speak about 268 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,000 this all the time, like the importance of queer friendship. 269 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,920 Because I do think it is so, so multifaceted because of all the 270 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,040 different things that we kind of have to club together on as 271 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:25,520 being queer friends, which is like our right to exist, the 272 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,720 nuances within our community. And if you don't have that and 273 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,520 also the lengths that we will go to for each other, I think as 274 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,960 well. And not not dampening the 275 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,600 existence of heterosexual friendship, but I do just think 276 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,080 it is that slightly different thing. 277 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,800 And yeah, the fact that you, you know, said that it was all of 278 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,520 your friends coming together and doing that and there was so much 279 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,880 because by the other end of the spectrum, whilst listening to 280 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:53,040 touch, which is a very, you know, ethereal like feeling song 281 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,400 with so much emotion built in. I was also lashed off my tits 282 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,600 and Sante that summer listening to Sigma, feeling just as 283 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,800 optimistic with a bunch of straight men with their tops 284 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,320 off, knowing that I was also this big fat lesbian. 285 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,200 This is an advertisement from Better Help. 286 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,800 Stress and anxiety can show up in all kinds of ways and people 287 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,360 don't always realise the physical symptoms it can bring, 288 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,160 like headaches, teeth grinding and even digestive issues. 289 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,640 In a world that's telling you to do more, telling you how to be, 290 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,320 telling you how to behave, I'm here to remind you that it's so 291 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,640 important to take care of yourself, do less, and even 292 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,960 maybe try some therapy. 85% of Better Help therapists have a 293 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,080 strong expertise and anxiety, and 69% of Better Help members 294 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,960 report improved symptoms after just six weeks of therapy. 295 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,400 I've spoken previously that I've been in therapy for a while now. 296 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,760 I don't do it as religiously as I did at one point, but I used 297 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,920 Better Help religiously for most of last year. 298 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,960 And when I felt like I really needed someone to talk to that 299 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,000 understood me, that was able to break down the way that I was 300 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,680 dealing with thoughts, feelings, emotions, and just the way that 301 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,760 I was navigating myself through the world, it was super, super 302 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,480 helpful. It can empower you to be the 303 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,079 best version of yourself. It's not just for those who have 304 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:19,319 experienced major trauma. As the largest online therapy 305 00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:21,839 provider in the world, Better Help can provide access to 306 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,800 mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. 307 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,520 Get the tools to manage your anxiety with Better Help. 308 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,480 Our listeners get 10% off their first month at 309 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:35,160 betterhelp.com/LSE. That's Better Help 310 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:40,800 help.com/LSEbut. That was in a crop top and these 311 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,280 like hot pants shorts, which came in my relatively femme era 312 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,600 today. But it's not it's not the vibe. 313 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,000 But yeah, there was so much like a lot more positivity in the 314 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,120 world. And I think as you said there 315 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:56,280 about, yeah, there's so, so many amazing career artists out there 316 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,200 now coming up with new music all the time. 317 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,000 That's exactly how it should be, the same as there are straight 318 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,640 artists. It's just, it should just be the 319 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,680 norm. Like, yes, the people are 320 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,280 expressing themselves in the arts through different 321 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,920 experiences, but I do think it's even more poignant now than it 322 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,880 ever has been just because, like, the political landscape is 323 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:20,280 probably, I can say since I've been alive, one of the most 324 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,480 terrifying. It's definitely pretty bleak. 325 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:28,160 It's not great, no, it's not great and it takes a lot to keep 326 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,640 pushing for your existence. And we shouldn't have to in the 327 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,320 1st place. And This is why like Lesbian 328 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,360 Supper Club and on small scales and big scales, people coming 329 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:39,040 forward and like owning who they are. 330 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,000 And as you were saying that you didn't have to say, oh, I'm a 331 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,480 lesbian. Like it's just very much in who 332 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,000 you are. How you express yourself is so 333 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,040 important. And I think we are trying to get 334 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:53,680 silenced in so many ways. And on that, it's your kind of 335 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,320 journey through the music industry because you've said 336 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,080 that touch. You were literally just doing it 337 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,800 all by yourself. And then I mean, pretty much a 338 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:03,480 whole decade has passed since then. 339 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,600 Very much so. Which is also wild. 340 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,680 Like time is a weird suit. How has that happened? 341 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,320 Mental like I love the fact that you call yourself a millennia. 342 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:14,360 Melesbial. Melesbial. 343 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:16,400 Yeah, I said it once and I was like, that's great. 344 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,920 Think I did it on purpose and I was like this is brilliant and 345 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,800 I'm using it forever from now. On well, talking about 346 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,440 struggling with your TikTok social media, there's a video 347 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,960 for you right there. New #melesbial, creator of the 348 00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:30,640 word melesbial. Maybe I'm born for TikTok and I 349 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,400 just don't realise. Yeah, I think you're going to be 350 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,320 uncovering quite a few things this year. 351 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,800 How's like your journey through music and within the industry 352 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,600 grown, changed How? What does that look like for 353 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,320 you? Well, I think I've had like a 354 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:50,120 super varied like experience in that I've, you know, I've been 355 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:53,160 signed to the major risk of major labels. 356 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,040 I've been signed to sort of indie labels. 357 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,400 I, I signed for this record to an indie label that then got 358 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,720 munched by a major label, which was my first label. 359 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,040 So, you know, like it's, it's constantly sort of changing and 360 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,200 evolving the way I sort of. Have experienced it, but I feel 361 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:17,240 really blessed because I think, you know, firstly releasing 362 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,400 touch the response to that having sort of going from being 363 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,080 a person who had a full time job to a person who has, you know, 364 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,720 567 record labels coming to them being like, please, can I you 365 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,360 know, that is just a kind of not everyone gets that opportunity 366 00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:36,800 to to make a decision. About what they're. 367 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,600 Home even yeah and I certainly think you know, there were 368 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,800 things that I just didn't know about the music industry when I 369 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:46,360 was having those initial meetings. 370 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:49,680 And obviously my my manager did explain it to me as as we went. 371 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,880 But you know, I remember being introduced to to people who 372 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,120 called product managers and I was just saying, great, they're 373 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:59,840 going to be the people who like help design my artwork, who like 374 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,160 helped design all the merch. This is really cool. 375 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:08,240 And then I'll say, Oh, wait, no, I the, I'm the product, they're 376 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,200 managing me. And I hadn't realized how. 377 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,080 So I was like, why do they keep, Why does every label introduce 378 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,400 me to like the merch person? You know, like, why is that such 379 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:17,040 a? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 380 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:19,280 Because you just think that'd be something kind of be more back 381 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,880 end and you just get the designs come through, say yes or no, and 382 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,240 it's done. I mean, I am obsessed with 383 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,080 actually, you know, product design and, and, and build well, 384 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,800 building for for for the records. 385 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,240 It's actually after, I think maybe making the music sort of 386 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,040 my favorite part of the process. But so I was like pumped to meet 387 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,760 them and then realized that no, I'm the product. 388 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,680 And that's a, that's a funny realization to sort of make 389 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,760 about yourself that you're like, Oh, no, I am, I'm. 390 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,320 The person, yeah. I'm a creative person, I'm 391 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,360 making art, but I'm also have to be in some way packaged up and 392 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:57,280 marketed. And so that was kind of like an 393 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,680 interesting brain puzzle to sort of solve. 394 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,760 And I, I certainly remember like being called in to my first 395 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,360 label, like it was like the head of marketing and he was sort of 396 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:10,800 like, why don't you want to be marketed? 397 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,080 And I was like, what I do, please. 398 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,920 Some of my records. Yeah. 399 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,600 I think it's just because I was saying no to some things that 400 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,800 you know, because you're like, well, it doesn't necessarily 401 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,240 align with like what I, you know, what I like, You know, I'm 402 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,640 happy to like work with brands and stuff when it's something 403 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,320 that I would. Feel so authentic. 404 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,960 Yeah, it's just like, yeah, OK, Converse. 405 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,560 Great. Put me in Converse and we'll run 406 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:34,320 around a high. School. 407 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,000 Yeah, Genuine. Yeah. 408 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,040 So that's kind of interesting. And then but, but yeah, I mean, 409 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,560 it's, it's, it's not been a, a journey without its challenges. 410 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,040 Like every single label I I've been dropped by. 411 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,840 And so actually one of my friends got dropped. 412 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,400 Sorry, that's not funny, but like but but. 413 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,000 It's my only. Experience you've got to have 414 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,720 some fucking resilience because I don't think I'll be able to 415 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,280 get I'm take rejection so badly, which is a big floor of mine and 416 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,440 I know that it's just part of the way it is hard industry 417 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,520 works and the world works but to be able to get up each time like 418 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,480 says a lot about kind of your passion and your resilience and. 419 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,840 I think I'm just really persistent as a person, like I'm 420 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,640 quite like a determined person. And and actually my friend 421 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,480 recently got dropped and it it happens all the time. 422 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,760 It's a it's, it's literally like a maths equation. 423 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,080 It's like, did you make enough money? 424 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,520 No, OK, bye. So I was like, babe, call me, 425 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:32,760 I've been dropped. I've only ever been dropped and 426 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:33,320 we. Need to talk? 427 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,800 If you if you ever need to talk to anyone about it, just come 428 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:37,480 chat to me. I am the expert. 429 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,400 I've gone through every scenario, every conversation. 430 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,640 Yeah, so but I. But it is certainly the second 431 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:49,320 time being dropped was kind of harder because it happened right 432 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,120 as the pandemic was sort of in full throes. 433 00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:56,880 So, you know, I was touring my U-Haul record about falling in 434 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,240 love with my my partner in New York. 435 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,720 Yeah, a U-Haul album. And I was halfway through 436 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,080 touring it and suddenly it was just like, gigs don't exist 437 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:07,840 anymore. You've just got to stay inside. 438 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,600 And. And so I felt like I had sort of 439 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,600 unfinished business of like touring this really joyful 440 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,440 record. And then kind of halfway through 441 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,000 the pandemic, they were like, you know what? 442 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,320 We're not going to move on with a with another record. 443 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,280 And I was like, OK, so I don't no longer have a label now. 444 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,960 And I didn't finish touring my really happy breakfast. 445 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,640 I was just. Got taken from you anyway. 446 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,760 Yeah, I don't know if I, I can't make a record right now because 447 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,320 I'm stuck in New York. I don't have any. 448 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,280 I'm not with my studio. So how do I even find a new 449 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,320 label if I can't really record demos? 450 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,400 And I remember like, you know, asking my friends like Torres, 451 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,800 who's an amazing queer musician, like, can I borrow a guitar? 452 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,240 Can I borrow this? Like asking microphone 453 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,040 companies, can I? So you're definitely the type of 454 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,320 person then who finds solutions because I'll have sat infested 455 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,320 in that for about 6 months I reckon. 456 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,600 Oh, there was some festering, like, for sure like. 457 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,280 And by festering, I mean playing The Last of Us like non-stop and 458 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,440 then like deciding to become a Twitch streamer for fun, right? 459 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,520 Yeah. But you had a chance to explore 460 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,520 other avenues and they feel like that's really important. 461 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,280 Just a new hobby for me. That's. 462 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,880 Yeah, add to the many, the many, the end. 463 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,680 That made you multifaceted and that's yeah, you've got to find 464 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,400 your gratefulness and and all of your trials. 465 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,000 And also that game is gay is fucking really like great. 466 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,040 Don't get me started on it 'cause I've been I've I've been 467 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:28,480 in my Sims era which so bad which I would take to friends 468 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,000 houses. For dinner, but you would take 469 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:31,800 Sims. I would take my laptop and be 470 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,160 like I'm just going to eat and then sit. 471 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,560 And then be gay in The Sims. Yeah, and everyone was just 472 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:36,680 like, just let her get on with it. 473 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,320 And then it was GTAI mean, that was a big one last year. 474 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,360 Yeah, really Big hot summer's day in Cornwall sat on GTA. 475 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,680 I support it. I think video games are great. 476 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,960 Yeah, yeah. But I feel like it's just 477 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,520 there's there's that element of, you know, health, health that 478 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,760 comes into it, which I don't really understand. 479 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,880 So yeah, it's amazing that you're able to. 480 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,040 But I think it speaks so much about you must just love it. 481 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:01,480 Like it must bring you so much. I. 482 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,000 Think there's just like you just you're going to do it anyway. 483 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,360 Do you know what I mean? I think that's with anything 484 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,960 that you love, it's like, yeah, I might do it and it might be in 485 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,680 my bedroom and no one hears it or it's shit or whatever. 486 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,000 But you, you just, if you're, if you make music, you will always 487 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,360 make music. And, you know, I've been really 488 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:25,080 fortunate and blessed that there have been record labels who go, 489 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,320 we will give you this amount of money to make music how you want 490 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,160 to make it. Because, you know, I'm not, you 491 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,040 know, I'm not from a background where I can pay for a record 492 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,520 myself. I have to have work with a 493 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,160 label. And one of the big things 494 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,040 actually, I say to kind of young artists or any artists who comes 495 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,280 to me, like, what advice would you give in? 496 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,240 I'd be like, look, if you're able to work without a label, if 497 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,200 you can produce music, like the longer you do it yourself, like 498 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,000 the better. Because especially now with 499 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,600 TikTok, with social media being the way it is, you do not need 500 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,440 it. If you don't need it, like, it 501 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:01,560 can help and it certainly helps me. 502 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,080 But it's just like, hold on to your independence and your 503 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,840 powers like as long as possible, because people will. 504 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,600 Find as soon as you get boxed, it's very, it's very difficult. 505 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:17,520 Yeah, yeah. Talking of like the journey of 506 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,800 of music and obviously your queerness plays into a lot of 507 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,360 that. What was your journey of 508 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:26,320 queerness? Kind of what did that look like 509 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,920 for you? I like, I, I feel like my 510 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:35,440 journey is like I wish for my journey for everyone in some 511 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,400 ways. Like I'm super blessed. 512 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,400 Like I'm not saying that they weren't like difficult moments. 513 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:47,000 Firstly, I have a twin who I've mentioned he came out very, I 514 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,880 mean it was very, you know, the closet was very much I love. 515 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,320 Gay twins because it really helps with the nature versus 516 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,040 nature argument. Yeah. 517 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:55,640 Yeah. And it's like, no, we are quite 518 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,440 literally like, it's in the DNA. Yeah. 519 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,960 You can't make someone gay. Two out of two gay exactly. 520 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,600 So he came out. Well, I say he came out. 521 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:10,080 It was clear, I think to to all of us that or you know what, it 522 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,320 was clear to my parents that he was gay. 523 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,880 And my dad, when he was about 13, sat down with him and sort 524 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:25,840 of said to him, Nick, should I just assume you're gay until you 525 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,920 tell me otherwise? You know, it's, it was a version 526 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,440 of that so that he didn't have to come out because coming out 527 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,400 is, you know, saying I'm gay is, is, is scary. 528 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,280 Even if it's an amazing thing, it, it can be very frightening. 529 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,720 And I and Nick just sort of nodded his head. 530 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,400 And I remember my dad coming to me and saying, look, Nick's gay. 531 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,120 And at first I was a little bit upset, which is interesting 532 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,880 because all my friends at school were like, your brother's gay, 533 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,040 your brother's gay. And I'd ask Nick, I said, are 534 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:55,360 you gay? And he said no. 535 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,800 So I was sort of upset about them being right and me not 536 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,520 knowing, but not, yeah, but not. So I wasn't upset about the fact 537 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,160 that he was gay. It was more that I felt sort of 538 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,840 embarrassed that I had been insisting he wasn't because he 539 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,880 had told me he wasn't. But I mean, it being upset 540 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,200 lasted for like 2 minutes. And then by the time we were 541 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,240 sort of 16, he was going to the gay village in Manchester 542 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,760 because Manchester is just a great place to grow up queer. 543 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,600 And so we're going out underage. And I actually only had my first 544 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,960 experience of gay village like four months ago. 545 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,000 Oh my God. And I went with a 21 year old at 546 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,840 the age of 29, which was not great in its own right. 547 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,920 Very much friends, by the way, everyone not, not dating 21, no 548 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,880 judgment, not for me. And yeah, it's fucking chaos. 549 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,880 So I was like, what the fuck? The fact that we don't have 550 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,280 something similar to that in London is is insanity to me. 551 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,920 But it's incredible for what it is. 552 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,760 And I think for young queer people it is. 553 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:59,760 It is quite literally like a portal of just like gay. 554 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,520 And everything that goes into that community is kind of 555 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,280 represented just on that strip. And I think that's amazing. 556 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,320 Yeah. And so he would, he would go and 557 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,560 I would accompany him like we'd go together. 558 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,440 So you're very much not. I won't look. 559 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,120 I, I was playing football to like a really high level at that 560 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,440 point. I was playing for Manchester 561 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:19,880 City. So like I would just say that 562 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,880 sport was my life. And so I hadn't yet had that. 563 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,200 Like I wasn't interested in boys, but I wasn't interested in 564 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,960 girls. I was interested in football, 565 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,160 which should have been a sign to myself, but it wasn't that. 566 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,840 But I think I was going to touch on this though, because I think 567 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,240 even from your parents noticing your brother and not noticing 568 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,960 you, I think it's because it's so much easier for girls to fall 569 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,880 into masculinity and just be called a tomboy. 570 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,960 Whereas when boys fall into femininity, it's not, Oh, you're 571 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,360 a feminine. Well, until recently, but even 572 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,320 still now it's not that. Oh, you're a you're just a 573 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,400 feminine guy. It's or you're gay like, and I 574 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,480 think it's so much easier from the heterosexual world to kind 575 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,760 of see gayness in men than versus in women. 576 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,760 Yeah, which is really interesting and could you could 577 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,560 probably spend at least three episodes. 578 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:10,440 On yeah, I think it goes into like toxic masculinity and also 579 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,200 severe misogyny where women are concerned. 580 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,160 So it's like women couldn't possibly want to be not with 581 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,200 men. And yeah, men have to be 582 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,520 masculine. If they're anything other than 583 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,000 that, they're just gay. So yeah. 584 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:27,040 Yeah. And so I wasn't really sure of, 585 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,320 you know, I just wasn't really tuned into kind of that aspect, 586 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,040 you know, tuned into sexuality, Yeah. 587 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,440 And like, being attracted to people. 588 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:42,200 But then I had a friendship at a all girls school, a best friend. 589 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,360 And it's just a classic. Yeah. 590 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:49,880 It was a very intense friendship that absolutely became sort of 591 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,040 this very secret romance. And then there were lots and 592 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,920 lots of toxic elements to that, you know, and it was like 593 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,600 amazing, awful, you know. And I think they would, they 594 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,960 would say the same. And I was like, OK, well, maybe 595 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,120 I'm bisexual or maybe, you know, I didn't. 596 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:13,040 I didn't really label myself, but this friend would stay over 597 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,480 a lot. And I think my dad sort of did 598 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,240 the same thing and just sort of said, look, should I assume that 599 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:24,760 so and so is your girlfriend? And I was just like, just 600 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,680 silently nodding. Yes, and walk away. 601 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,880 Yeah, and then my dad became president of the Manchester Gay 602 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,560 Parents group and now, amazing, it's like, 'cause. 603 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,840 You grew up in Manchester. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 604 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:38,720 I was born in London. I was gonna say, 'cause the 605 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,320 accent does not prevail. Well, it's so I feel like the 606 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,240 accent, the the like lilt is there, like the northern lilt. 607 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,760 There's something. But yeah, I. 608 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,800 I'm so blown away that you were like a big footballer and yeah, 609 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,560 made it into Man City. Like that's, that's insane 610 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,040 'cause it's two very different things. 611 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,400 Being musician hobbies you're true true. 612 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:02,600 Too many. You're clearly very good at 613 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,560 having hobbies because you've made quite a success out of all 614 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,560 of them. So why don't you get into 615 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,160 trading or something as well And then? 616 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,040 Just I'm bad at maths, right? OK, I'm bad at maths. 617 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,480 Fun thing. OK, fine. 618 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,400 So you were almost like the Jess Park equivalent back in the day. 619 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,560 Oh my God, I'm just sorry. I'm just thinking of the 620 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,080 shortest Man City football. Player yeah. 621 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,440 No, no, no, that's fair. She's right. 622 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,160 I. Am she's amazing so. 623 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,880 Because no one can see. Well, maybe they can, but I'm in 624 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,160 the chair. But yeah, I just. 625 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,440 It's fine. We'll get a photo. 626 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:31,400 Yeah. Next to each other. 627 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,480 Fucking short. Tiny. 628 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,000 To use that, but yeah, that's that's amazing. 629 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,400 And So what do you think your dad is just like that as a 630 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,480 person? He's just always been a very. 631 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,640 Look, well, it wasn't like suddenly, OK, I've got 2 gay 632 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,360 ones now I'm the president. I think, you know, look, he, he 633 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,560 joined the group because there were elements that he struggled 634 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,880 with. And I think he, any parent kind 635 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,520 of at that area was like, is it me? 636 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,280 Is it, you know what? And so he went to a group where 637 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,920 there were other parents of gay children and they would talk 638 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,080 and, you know, support one another. 639 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,520 And I think he just became so sort of invested in it. 640 00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:13,080 And because he had two out of two, they sort of eventually 641 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,400 nominated him as president. And which is the most dad thing 642 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,960 to happen to my dad. And I remember we had a a 643 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,520 Manchester pride, which is a a great pride. 644 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,280 And absolutely, if you haven't been, you must go. 645 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,840 And there was a gay parents float and my dad decided to 646 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:30,440 drive it. Wow, in drag I. 647 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,239 Hope you've Oh yes, I hope you've got content of. 648 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,960 This I have somewhere like an image of him in drag. 649 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,440 I mean, he just just sort of looked like Ozzy Osbourne and 650 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,960 it's kind of in the end and but the sad. 651 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,440 This just gets better and better. 652 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,800 The saddest thing is that the flow broke down. 653 00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:47,760 Oh no, So he never. Got so he started driving it and 654 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,320 then it broke down and he never got to like be in the. 655 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:51,440 Parade. OK, so like. 656 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,840 So ready for it. There's you've got to have it 657 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,239 that he gets to do that again. You know what I mean? 658 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,920 Oh my God, yes. We're gonna have to make it some 659 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,480 sort of like collaboration. We'll get some sponsor somewhere 660 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,240 and allow him to live out his dream. 661 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,360 He actually said to me, said to both my twin and I the other 662 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,440 day. He was like, sometimes I walked 663 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,920 down the street and I think to myself, both my children are 664 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:22,160 gay, how cool am I? And I start skipping and I'm 665 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,840 just like this is. I hope he sounds like this. 666 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,480 Is that kind of like very quintessential, like British 667 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,760 father? Yeah, yeah, I mean, he also has 668 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,080 a straight child. And I'm like, Dad, what about 669 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,400 you? Like doesn't matter, you forget 670 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,160 about them. I do boring. 671 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,000 Yeah, So, no. So I'm really blessed like that. 672 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,640 Isn't he the one I don't want to, like, paint this picture of? 673 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,240 Like it was perfect. Look, I was absolutely bullied 674 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:51,720 at school, like my dad did initially struggle, my mum did 675 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:58,840 initially struggle, but it's it was about as sort of perfect as 676 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,720 it could have been I think. So I have to ask, is your SO, is 677 00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,920 your mum the Russian? Mum is Russian, yes. 678 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,000 OK, so did that have any because I know that culturally without 679 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,440 making a sweeping statement, I mean, it's, you know, God, very 680 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,760 obvious that as a country, one of the most probably homophobic 681 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,520 ones that could exist. And it's not easy if you've 682 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,560 grown up in those very structured environments that 683 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,920 promote and depromote certain ways of living. 684 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,000 It's not a personal thing. I can imagine that that that 685 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,400 when that's in you and it's kind of just how did so how did she 686 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,600 take it by comparison? Yeah, I think, well, 687 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,960 interestingly there was sort of a mirror and apparently this is 688 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,240 not uncommon, where my dad struggled with my coming out a 689 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:44,120 little bit more and my mum struggled with my brother's 690 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,000 coming out a little bit more. Because they say it's sort of 691 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,080 like a rejection of you as the mother figure or, you know, I'm 692 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,120 sure there's, there's lots of really smart reasons for why 693 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:57,480 that may be. But yeah, I mean, overall, I 694 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,080 mean, she's lived here for longer than I've been alive now. 695 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,040 So I think that that helps. And she's also, you know, was an 696 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,760 actor, is a creative person. It's quite like, so I think that 697 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,320 helped. But yeah, I mean, it's it's, 698 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,000 it's definitely a source of sadness. 699 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,600 I'd, I'd love to tour in like, I'd love to play a show. 700 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,520 Not now, but you know, I would love to play a show in Russia 701 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:26,520 for queer people, but I wouldn't feel I I myself would feel safe, 702 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,960 but I wouldn't feel safe for the people. 703 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,720 That are turning up and leaving. Very interestingly, though, I 704 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,080 know a few Russians and I was speaking to one of them who 705 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,120 actually moved over a couple of years ago from Russia. 706 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:44,000 You know, me potentially being ignorant, but also being very 707 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,280 awake to the things that we know that happened. 708 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,160 I was like, she's queer. So I was like, you know, fucking 709 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:56,000 how, how was that kind of thing? And she was like, fine, there's 710 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,440 certain areas, I think it was Saint Petersburg that she was 711 00:37:58,440 --> 00:37:59,960 from. And she was saying that there 712 00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:03,280 was like a basically like a whole district there where it 713 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,000 was just very gay, loads of gay bars, more than we even have 714 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,280 here, loads of gay clubs. And everyone just got left the 715 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,160 fuck alone. And she was like, yes, of course 716 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,480 you don't go about on the day today parading it in the street, 717 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,320 but generally actually inside. And I know that again, without 718 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,680 getting too political and breaking down all of the reasons 719 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,960 about what we see on TV and what we don't see on TV, and 720 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,920 obviously there's some obvious very deep rooted issues there. 721 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:35,320 But I do think what you were saying, it's the kind of flip 722 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:41,120 both sides of the coin of not wanting to do that because, you 723 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,120 know, you're protected, but the people that come may not. 724 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,960 But then if you don't do it, how does the narrative ever change? 725 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,520 And it's such a difficult. One to navigate well and also to 726 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,600 clarify. I've definitely never been asked 727 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:57,040 to you know, I think if I if I had been asked to I would but I 728 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,040 would certainly be nervous about it. 729 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,480 But I think I mean this is proof, isn't it that kid, you 730 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,120 know what your what your friend is describing. 731 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:09,680 It's like we we fucking exist. We will find a way like if the 732 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,400 the sort of more we're put down, the bigger. 733 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,880 The. Counterculture like and, and 734 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,560 it's normally always young queer people like who are just finding 735 00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:25,080 this, just finding the pocket and just going and resisting. 736 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,360 And and that's not to like, I have to just as I say that, just 737 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,280 be like, also thank for our queer elders who fought for us. 738 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:37,880 Absolutely to this point. Yeah, I think in you'll, you'll 739 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:44,800 be surprised by places where you think this is just like, I 740 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,280 wouldn't feel safe to be queer. Like there'll be a, there's 741 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,600 going to be an underground queer culture that is absolutely. 742 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,880 One of the biggest eye opening experiences for me is when I 743 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:57,320 went to Warsaw of Levi's for pride and there were some 744 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:03,200 individuals there who were. More stoic in their presence of 745 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,880 being on the streets with loads of gay people walking around. 746 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,760 I didn't see. I've seen it more in London 747 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,600 Pride. No name calling, no slurs, no 748 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:17,040 fights when we were going through on the parade, old, like 749 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,440 old people hanging out windows waving flags and waving. 750 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,040 And like that for me was like, again, one of those memories 751 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,720 I'll never forget because I did go in with that huge like 752 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,920 preconceived ideas of very homophobic country. 753 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,880 You know, lots of stories, lots of issues. 754 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,240 Again, though, a very war-torn country over the years. 755 00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:40,840 And you can't oppress people for long periods of time and expect 756 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,360 them to move, move with the times, which I'm a hugely, like 757 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,080 passionate about. And yeah, I think it's the same 758 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,920 thing for all of these places. It's like you hear the stories, 759 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,960 but if you go, sometimes what you see on the ground is not 760 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,440 always what's blown up in the media, particularly by Western 761 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,760 media and things like that. One of my favorite shows ever 762 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,920 was was Poland. Like very queer, like very like, 763 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,040 so tapped into kind of like new music. 764 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,680 I think as well, because they're building up like it's new, 765 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,480 coming out of, like, all of the, like, wars and issues that 766 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,640 they've had, like politically, they're really now only a space 767 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,400 where they're building back up. And I felt exactly the same. 768 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,640 I loved it. Would go back anytime. 769 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:21,960 Yeah. And the food's incredible. 770 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,440 Oh my God. It's cheap, cheap bit cheap 771 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,000 food, cheap fags, dog food. Yeah, yeah, fantastic. 772 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,760 So your lesbian experiences? My lesbian experiences. 773 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:33,440 You. Hauling. 774 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,080 Sorry, I love how I just like ripped my cap off my head I 775 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,480 guess. Lesbian experiences let me. 776 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,480 I've had them a lot. I yeah, bloody hell. 777 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,360 So your current girlfriend started as a U-Haul and you're 778 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,360 still together eight years later? 779 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,360 It started as fucking. By yeah, well, it started as on 780 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,120 an app like. Love how else do we fucking meet 781 00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,040 each other? Really like. 782 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:04,200 Literally I I mean I remember this website called Gaydar 783 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:05,440 Girls. I don't even know if it still 784 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,240 exists, but like. That never heard about that. 785 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,960 Oh my God, It was, it was gaydar and gaydar girls. 786 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,200 And that's how people met. It was before iPhones and it was 787 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,800 like, that's online dating was just has always been. 788 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,560 Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, we met. 789 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,120 I was on tour for my first record. 790 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,400 She's in New York. I was really like exhausted from 791 00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:36,400 kind of being on the road for like two, 2 1/2 years. 792 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,000 I was like, oh, if ever you're in New York, you know, like, you 793 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,360 know, like casually probably just wanted to go for a drink or 794 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,680 whatever. And I was like, you know what, I 795 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,440 am going home. Like I, I've been on tour for 796 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,640 like 8 weeks. I think I'm losing my mind. 797 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,480 And anyway, we were sort of texting. 798 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,640 It's just like the classic, it's the classic story of like, we're 799 00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:00,000 texting now. We're texting every day now. 800 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,800 We're having telephone calls. 4 hours long. 801 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,840 Literally that was my next sentence. 802 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,400 I just fucking live to repeat each other, don't we? 803 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,400 Like no one, no one in this community has had no experience 804 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:13,840 ever. Yeah. 805 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,520 And. It got to the point, it got to 806 00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,160 the point where I was just like, I am like not really sleeping 807 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,160 because I'm having these conversations and it's like, I, 808 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:24,320 I love these conversations, but you know, we've never met in 809 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,440 real life. Like, you know, how, how a 810 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,400 person kind of occupies space is such a big part of physical 811 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,200 attraction. You know, I knew I, I, I was 812 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,760 like attracted to her as a, as a, as a brain, as a voice face 813 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,920 on the other end of the phone. And I was like, look, I think 814 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,520 we, you know, I think we should try and have a date because, 815 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,320 because if it doesn't work, then fine. 816 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,920 Like I've met a person that I clearly like vibe with in some 817 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,560 way. But it's also like this is a 818 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:57,320 real kind of time and emotional sync that I'm pouring all this 819 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,760 energy into. So I sort of invented a reason 820 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,280 to be in New York. I was just, I was just like, 821 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,920 yeah, yeah, I've got a thing in New York. 822 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,280 Weirdly, my labels just sent me out. 823 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,600 Yeah, I mean, there's always stuff you can do in New York. 824 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:15,160 So basically I was like, OK, I'm going to use the last bit of my 825 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,960 advance to book like a ridiculous hotel, and I hope 826 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,760 that it goes well. And then after a few days, she's 827 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:27,520 just like, cancelled the hotel. Like yeah, stay at mine, I 828 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:29,320 messaged. The hotel actually, you've only 829 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:30,720 budget for two days and you'll think. 830 00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:33,360 I mean, I had the budget, but I was just like, please, yeah, 831 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,480 please. And I messaged my friends Muna 832 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,520 and I was like, can we, can you get me a guest list for your 833 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,480 show? It's like a first day like 834 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:42,800 thanks. I need to look as cool as 835 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,240 fucking possible Get. Me on that list they did and 836 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:52,160 anyway I fly it's really high like this feels like you know I 837 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,400 messaged my friends they're being like if this is a disaster 838 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,240 I'm going to need you to swoop in and do fun stuff with me 839 00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:58,520 because. I know there's going to be so 840 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,080 many people listening to this right now pissing themselves 841 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,200 because they're probably in an airport. 842 00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:05,680 If you're, if they're in America, probably on an 8 hour 843 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,440 fucking car journey. Yeah, literally having the same 844 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,480 thoughts and feelings that you're having right now about 845 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:16,440 that U-Haul. Yeah, and anyway, we meet and 846 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,200 the lobby of this very fancy hotel and my room is on the 21st 847 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,040 floor and we decided to. Did you have the pigeon coat at 848 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,000 this point? I think, I think the pigeon coat 849 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,360 I'd left at home. Right. 850 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:29,800 OK. I think I was in like quite a 851 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,160 nice little silk jacket. Oh, you really? 852 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,480 I really didn't like this girl. You I I wore like really nice 853 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:41,240 shoes that I kept asking her if she liked them because I was so 854 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,240 fucking awkward that I just didn't know what. 855 00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:45,760 Else to say she's. Just like, not really like. 856 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,640 She's been the ugliest. Fucking they weren't even that 857 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:50,960 night like I thought they were not. 858 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,840 Anyway, so we meet in the lobby and we'd agreed to have drinks 859 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,680 and hadn't really thought. So we got into the the the 860 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:03,240 elevator and there are these strangers in the elevator and 861 00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:05,400 she's there. And we hardly had said anything. 862 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,360 And I was like, well, I can't really these strange if I go, 863 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,240 oh, well, this is kind of interesting, like meeting for 864 00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:13,880 the first time. Or, you know, if I if I did my 865 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,520 usual thing of like make joke about the situation because it's 866 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,040 a bit awkward, then this family are going to be like, what the 867 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:24,080 fuck is going on here? So we just sat in silence. 868 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,120 So I stood in silence for 21 floors of this elevator ride. 869 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,800 And we had a, we'd had a drink on the on the balcony and we, 870 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,600 she wasn't really making eye contact with me. 871 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,800 And I was kind of like, oh fuck, this is yeah, she doesn't fancy 872 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,760 me. This is going to be painful. 873 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,160 And of course. I'm literally going to be skint 874 00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,920 to a new level because she's not letting me in the house. 875 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,680 I'm going to have to call my friends and be like, can I stay 876 00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,240 at yours? And anyway, we went to the MUNA 877 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:58,280 show and about halfway through the MUNA show, she took my hand 878 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,960 to lead me to a place where I could see because I'm short so I 879 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:03,960 couldn't see anything. And when she took my hand, I was 880 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:09,120 like, she does fancy. Yeah, I did. 881 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,680 And obviously we talked about afterwards, but the eye contact, 882 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,400 we were both just really nervous. 883 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,480 And we were both. So, you know, we'd spent six 884 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,320 months talking to each other. And it was incredibly, like an 885 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:22,120 intense kind of yeah. And anyway, eight years later. 886 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,120 Well, it works. She's U hauled over. 887 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,240 To the. UK now, yeah. 888 00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:29,280 So I did three years there and then. 889 00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:30,680 She's done OK, fine. Yeah. 890 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,720 Wow, yeah. Somehow, and actually I did just 891 00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,480 there, I posted this video of her coming in through Heathrow 892 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,600 with every single item of our belongings from New York being 893 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:42,680 like lesbians on a second date. But it's just so funny. 894 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,880 She's got 2 trolleys which she likes strapped together and it 895 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,280 literally is all our worldly possessions and it but. 896 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,160 It is lesbians on a second date. It kind of. 897 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:56,360 Is like you guys have actually done it relatively normal on the 898 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,040 grand scheme of things. But we know lesbians that have 899 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:00,680 had one date and then just moved in. 900 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,520 Yeah, so it happens. Just let us live our lives. 901 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,800 God forbid us. God forbid we have a hobby. 902 00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,520 We can learn the hard way that that's not always. 903 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:09,440 Fun. We're always going to be. 904 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,080 You're fine. The rest of us are probably 905 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:12,480 always going to be learning the hard way. 906 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,400 But that's just how life goes. Yeah. 907 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:19,720 So tied into that. What, you've come back over here 908 00:48:19,720 --> 00:48:22,240 then you're releasing a new song. 909 00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,240 Yeah. Next week. 910 00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:26,760 You so a new album called I Got Too Sad for My Friends, which is 911 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,400 maybe the most me album title of all time because the last few 912 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:32,680 years have been difficult. I was going to. 913 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,440 Say, that's interesting because we've spent most of this episode 914 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,320 talking about your optimism and resilience. 915 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,040 No, you're releasing an album about. 916 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,400 Yeah, well, I mean, that was such a foreign experience for me 917 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:49,000 and such a kind of a really it was feeling myself shrink and 918 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,200 sort of not recognizing myself was a was a really kind of, I'd 919 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,480 never experienced that before. So a lot of the album does deal 920 00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:00,040 with that. I mean, I I have a song coming 921 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,640 out next week. Well, I don't know when it will 922 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,560 be. We whatever you can say like you 923 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,160 can edit, you'll have to edit this but called so I have a song 924 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:11,400 coming out called World's Worst Girlfriend. 925 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,280 So I need to know, is that about you? 926 00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,320 Yes. So you're the world's worst 927 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,160 girlfriend? It's sort of about feeling like 928 00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,240 you are or and not and not wanting to be and sort of. 929 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:26,200 I'm not actually going to repeat that title back to you because I 930 00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:28,520 don't want any of my exes to clip it and then just have it on 931 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,120 replay and have me admitting something that I personally 932 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:32,360 don't. Think it's true that that might 933 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,760 go really well though, you know, if like. 934 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:36,920 True, it's great premise for you. 935 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,840 I just look into the camera and keep saying it was was, 936 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,840 girlfriend was girlfriend was. No, but like it's, it's about 937 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,880 sort of me being, I mean, because I went through a period 938 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,480 and you know, I joked about it actually when we were making 939 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,080 coffee. I'm a bit of a hermit and I 940 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:50,960 don't do very much. But it, you know, I went through 941 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:53,680 a period where I really didn't, you know, I was playing video 942 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,440 games. I, I, I was sort of hiding from 943 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:02,200 the world and knowing that that mustn't be very fun to be with. 944 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,600 And I, and I really wanted to be a better girlfriend. 945 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,800 I wanted to be that person that was like, let's go for dinner, 946 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,360 let's go to the theatre, let's do this, let's go to go. 947 00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:10,520 To and you just couldn't find it. 948 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,840 Just it's. Like I want to be in my PJS and, 949 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,080 and feeling like the world's worst girlfriend. 950 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:17,600 And obviously there's a sense of humor to it. 951 00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:24,040 It's, it's like a very silly pop song, but I, I think if you have 952 00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:28,120 kind of a high baseline anxiety or just an anxious person, you, 953 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,000 you, everyone sort of felt like that at some point. 954 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:31,000 So. Absolutely. 955 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,880 I mean you basically just described me for a good year of 956 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,840 my life recently exactly the same thing. 957 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,840 Like went through a complete phase of like who the fuck am I? 958 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,600 Why the fuck don't I feel like myself? 959 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,160 How do I get back there? Is it lost forever? 960 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:48,240 Even the thoughts I have don't feel like me thinking. 961 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,400 I don't want to do any of the things I want to do. 962 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,080 I'm a bad friend, I'm a bad partner, I'm a bad daughter. 963 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,560 And it's fucking hard to get because you almost have to live 964 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,520 it and get so far down something snaps you to come back up. 965 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,840 But as you're falling, you know you're falling, but you can't. 966 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,080 You don't know what to fucking do to pick yourself. 967 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,320 Accidentally made the perfect album for you. 968 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,040 Sorry. Christ. 969 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:11,800 You might need to wait a little bit. 970 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:14,160 You know what? I'm back on in three months and 971 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,360 thank me again for the next 100K views, All right? 972 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,840 Because clearly number one biggest fan over here. 973 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,000 Yeah, it's so true. And I think I'm normally 974 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,440 relatively the same as you. Pretty fucking chill. 975 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:27,960 Pretty. Yeah. 976 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,480 Problem solver, pick up. Get on. 977 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:34,240 There's always a way, always been very proud that that's, 978 00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,240 well, not proud, but always been very aware that that's how I 979 00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:40,360 would describe myself and, and know of myself. 980 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,760 And when you don't see that those things as much about 981 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:46,000 yourself anymore, it's the most dystopian, destabilizing feeling 982 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,080 ever. And I speak about this a lot to 983 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,200 people, like externally, I've gone through a lot fucking worse 984 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,240 in life, you know, as we all do, loss, heartbreak, grief, 985 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,200 whatever it may be. And those external events didn't 986 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,200 touch me even half as much as the internal unraveling ever 987 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:04,840 did. And I don't think people speak 988 00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:05,600 about it enough. That's the. 989 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,640 Interesting thing to me, certainly, and certainly why I 990 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,360 spent so much of this record is like, if I look at it sort of 991 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,240 from the outside, I, I wasn't going through anything. 992 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:18,640 You didn't have that much, you know, like everyone else was 993 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:22,040 going through the pandemic. I was in a relationship. 994 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,560 I loved my partner, I, they were incredibly supportive. 995 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,760 And yet it was this slow unravelling and this sort of 996 00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:35,880 like I found myself shrinking and myself retreating. 997 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,960 And I think I mean, apart from the obvious, like I watched 998 00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:42,040 like, you know, I watched Romeo and Juliet as a kid and was 999 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,880 like, do I fancy, you know, or do I want to be him? 1000 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,840 And you know I. Saw a quote that you'd made that 1001 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:48,080 about that before. Yeah. 1002 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,640 And so every lesbian at one point in their life has wanted 1003 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,080 to dress. From a lesbian, yeah for sure. 1004 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,120 Like. Every my ex-girlfriend, the one 1005 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:59,440 that discovered you and sent in the music video, has dressed up 1006 00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,560 as Leonardo DiCaprio multiple times on Halloween. 1007 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,160 I mean, it was an iconic look and I think but the reason that 1008 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:10,320 sort of that is a part of the process, a part of what was fed 1009 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,400 into sort of all the the art direction for this record of me 1010 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,160 kind of in armour, yeah. I've seen that is this idea. 1011 00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:19,200 Interesting to see how this comes out. 1012 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,800 But it but I'm not protecting anything useful. 1013 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,680 Do you know what I mean? I'm not I'm not protecting my 1014 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,600 torso where all my vital organs are. 1015 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,000 I've got like a pauldron on, which is like for people who I 1016 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,920 didn't know. This is to the shoulder bit. 1017 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,240 OK. So it's it's like a metaphor for 1018 00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:38,840 how when we are for in my mind, the idea was that often when we 1019 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,720 are in those moments, we do things that we think are to 1020 00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:46,400 protect ourselves, but actually or to but but actually make it 1021 00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,200 sort of worse. So we retreat from the world 1022 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,720 when actually we need to be running into the world being 1023 00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:53,480 like, give me a hug. Yeah. 1024 00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,560 And I think that's the hardest thing sometimes if you're a 1025 00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,360 highly anxious person, like especially for me, highly 1026 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,000 anxious, but also highly independent. 1027 00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,480 I've never had to ask for help really in my life because I've 1028 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,120 always just accepted that I would rather do it on my own. 1029 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,840 And again, that was the first time where I couldn't and it was 1030 00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,520 fucking hard to be like, I need help. 1031 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,040 That was the hardest thing that I've ever had to do. 1032 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:20,440 And yeah, same thing, like put on all of the armour, 1033 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:26,000 discombobulated all in the wrong way because I had never lived it 1034 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,440 before. And I think you may be able to 1035 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:33,000 feel the same though as that. It's almost, I'll never say it 1036 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,120 was one of the best things that ever happened, but I'm grateful 1037 00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,960 for it now because it's taught me so much about myself and it's 1038 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,640 made me see the light in a completely different way. 1039 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,800 And I think before, light was just almost a part of life. 1040 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,120 Whereas now when I know what it's like to not see it, you're 1041 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,520 very grateful for when it shines through. 1042 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,600 And like that for me has been so like huge. 1043 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,120 Yeah. And I think coming out the other 1044 00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:01,880 side makes you trust in the idea that these things pass. 1045 00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,400 They may go on for a really long time. 1046 00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,160 Like there's no guarantee like that it's going to but they 1047 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,040 because when you're in it and it hasn't passed, no, you cannot 1048 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,760 every day. You'll think waking up and you 1049 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:14,560 feel the same. You're like, I wish we could go 1050 00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:16,160 back to sleep. So maybe tomorrow, maybe 1051 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:17,600 tomorrow. And it's exactly that. 1052 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,320 Thing I say out loud now actually quite a lot because 1053 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:24,000 being in, you know, record cycle is, is, is challenging and you, 1054 00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,120 there's a lot of pressure on you to do stuff and you're wanting 1055 00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,480 to say yes to everything. But obviously if you do, then 1056 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,520 you are really tired and you don't sleep. 1057 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,800 And then I also am playing video games, so that doesn't help with 1058 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,800 the sleep. But when I'm having sort of what 1059 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:41,040 I call a bad brain day, I say, and my partner, we both say 1060 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,960 like, it's perfectly possible that tomorrow will be better. 1061 00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,240 And I think it normally always is. 1062 00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:49,080 And it's a really powerful thing to say out loud. 1063 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,240 Absolutely. And for those listening, you've 1064 00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:55,760 got that, which is beautifully poetic and beautifully 1065 00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:57,840 optimistic. I also had something with a 1066 00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,840 friend that went that we can always top ourselves tomorrow, 1067 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,680 so let's not do it today. We'll give it until tomorrow. 1068 00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:07,640 Yeah, 2 two different types of people. 1069 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,760 I think it's great. The whole point is we can relate 1070 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,560 to as many people as possible on this podcast. 1071 00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:13,680 So if you are listening. But no, it really is that 1072 00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,880 sentiment of no one can ever give you a timeline. 1073 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,120 Yeah, but this shit does always pass and it's fucking hard. 1074 00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:21,840 But it always comes out the other side and something 1075 00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,480 beautiful ways will come from it that you wouldn't be writing 1076 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,600 this music now had you not have gone through that. 1077 00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,520 Absolutely. And you know, the same with 1078 00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:29,880 touch. Like I had to go through the 1079 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:34,480 worst breakup of my life and then look what happened and as a 1080 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,880 result of that and then. Did she get any royalties or 1081 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,320 like no she. Didn't I got to design the album 1082 00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,600 the the single cover? I mean like it couldn't be 1083 00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,000 anything gay. And then that's like here's. 1084 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,200 A he broke my fucking heart but. Here's a song about you. 1085 00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,120 Do you mind? I love it. 1086 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:49,720 Do you mind, like, designing the artwork? 1087 00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:51,000 Yeah, of course. Like. 1088 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:52,000 Oh my God. This is the. 1089 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,040 This is the most lesbian thing I've ever. 1090 00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:59,560 Yeah, just. Yeah, well, I think that we've 1091 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,000 like pretty much come to the end of this. 1092 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,160 It's just the most lesbian thing ever. 1093 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,360 Thank you so much for joining us today. 1094 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:10,640 I've loved having a chat and I've can't believe how much I've 1095 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,600 learned the Man City football play I need, I want. 1096 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:16,600 Was that was that news that. Was because I've obviously done 1097 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:20,120 a bit of I have to I can't just roar dog this I roar dog most 1098 00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:22,960 things in life. I can't roar dog this and so 1099 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,560 your dad on the float, Ozzy Osbourne vibe that's been quite 1100 00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:29,520 game changing for me. Want to see that? 1101 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:34,040 I need to see you in a kit. You can if you just got a few 1102 00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:34,920 scrolls. OK. 1103 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,480 But yeah. OK, just because I'm trying to 1104 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,280 envisage. That I'll just literally send. 1105 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:39,960 I'll send you. Really. 1106 00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:44,280 OK, fantastic. It's it's looks as gay as you 1107 00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:46,120 would. This is why I want to see it. 1108 00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,920 I'm might be gay because I can't imagine you being like a mid 1109 00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,600 thigh short. I'm imagining like a lower thigh 1110 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:53,080 knee. Everything. 1111 00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,520 I'm drowning in it exactly. This is this is like Adam 1112 00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,040 Sandler vibes, right? Yeah, yeah, this is exactly what 1113 00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,960 I want. So it's been groundbreaking in 1114 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:05,760 all all ways. But I can't wait for the new 1115 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,760 album to come out and the new song to come out. 1116 00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:12,680 And I'm super excited about what does, what does the next year to 1117 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,720 18 months, two years look like for sure. 1118 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:19,000 For sure, that is such a great question and you know what? 1119 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,160 I would love to have the answer to it. 1120 00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,640 Obviously, you know, I'm playing on the show in London, in West 1121 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,240 London. Amazing. 1122 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,080 I literally it's in Shepherds Bush and I live in Shepherds 1123 00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,280 Bush and this is the best. To be honest with you, I will be 1124 00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,360 going to that. Anything beyond that or Camden, 1125 00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,320 that's probably not. And I got to be honest with you. 1126 00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:38,520 I'm playing Bush Hall in June, so that is like the two shows 1127 00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:39,880 that I know are definitely happening. 1128 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,400 Amazing. We are, you know, looking at 1129 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,120 planning a tour. Like to be quite honest, I kind 1130 00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:48,000 of want to, I want to get a blue belt in jiu jitsu. 1131 00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,480 I think that's my goal for the next 18 months because that's, 1132 00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,960 that's just a random goal to tack on to the end of like, but 1133 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,640 that is honestly. You've got to keep it versatile. 1134 00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,560 You've got to. That is, I don't know if you've 1135 00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:04,680 ever, but just that is a wild experience because I I've never 1136 00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:08,600 it's so you're so physically sort of close to other people 1137 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,040 and the first time I did it, it was the start of this year. 1138 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,240 Sorry and you can totally cut this out but podcast. 1139 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:19,160 But the first class I did I was the only woman there and the 1140 00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,640 trainer was like I feel sorry for this tiny tiny lesbian. 1141 00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,840 So like come and work with me and like 2 seconds later I'm 1142 00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:31,120 like in mount position which is straddling this 6 foot ginger ex 1143 00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,680 army guy with a beard. And it was like record scratch 1144 00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,720 moment of like, this is not how I expected my very gay life to 1145 00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:39,680 to go. Again, I do want visuals for all 1146 00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,400 of these things. You've just got so much. 1147 00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,920 It's like in my brain. No, no, no, I, I think, you 1148 00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:52,360 know, the the next 18 months is, is like enjoying, you know, 1149 00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,400 because there were times over the last five years I didn't 1150 00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:56,760 know I'd get to. Do coming back, yeah. 1151 00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,680 I didn't know I'd be able to get to do this again and I think. 1152 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:03,480 The, the whole approach to the aesthetics, the recording, 1153 01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:07,840 everything has been like, what do you want to make sure you do 1154 01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,600 If this is the last time, like, and it probably isn't the last 1155 01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,560 time, but it's it's been that really joyful, like it's 1156 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,880 nurturing that in a child of like, I want to do it this way 1157 01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,640 and I'm going to do it this way. So just really being present 1158 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,240 with that. Oh, it's all of the experience 1159 01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,200 that you bring. Knowing what's right for you, 1160 01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:26,680 knowing what's not right for you. 1161 01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,360 Yeah, taking that low period, even though really hard and like 1162 01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,160 coming out hammering it again. I'm super excited to see how 1163 01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:36,040 this is going to go. And I think like it undoubtedly 1164 01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,280 will be amazing. You've got the hardest thing, 1165 01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,600 which is that your music and you smash that. 1166 01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:42,840 Your music is amazing. People do well with very ship 1167 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:44,720 music, so you're going to be fine. 1168 01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:48,040 But I'm really excited. And lesbians, if you haven't 1169 01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:52,120 listened to Shira, do because you will all love it. 1170 01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:55,600 I know you will. And I can't wait. 1171 01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:57,440 Thank you for and thank you for having. 1172 01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:58,960 Yeah, thank you for coming on today. 1173 01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,320 It's been super, super great to. Chat and it's honestly been a 1174 01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,640 tree and I don't often wake up this early for for things you 1175 01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,480 did get. You were you were at that coffee 1176 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,920 station 3 minutes before that you were supposed. 1177 01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:13,280 To my alarm was set for seven and wow, that is yeah. 1178 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:17,640 Wait, I mean I'm I'm like in an ideal world, 10 AM is my alarm. 1179 01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:18,640 In an ideal. View. 1180 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,160 I normally take about an hour and a half to walk around 1181 01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,200 Portobello Rd. with the dog and a coffee before I can start my 1182 01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,880 day like nothing before then. So we've both, we've both made a 1183 01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,120 real effort for each other today and I'd like to say it's been. 1184 01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:31,400 Worth it? No, I was super pumped. 1185 01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,960 I was really excited to do this. And just a quick shout out, if 1186 01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:36,800 any Gen. Z lesbians are listening to this 1187 01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,880 and want to help Shiro with her take talks. 1188 01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:41,800 DM me and I'll pass on your details because. 1189 01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:43,840 Stunning. It's fucking Hard Out Here. 1190 01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,480 I'm in the trenches. Ohh so I'm in the I just avoid 1191 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,760 it all together to live. Absolute dismay. 1192 01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,600 But you can't. Have the one of the one of my 1193 01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,520 partner coming like my girlfriend coming through 1194 01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,360 Heathrow was like absolutely went mad. 1195 01:01:57,680 --> 01:01:59,760 And so what's annoying about TikTok is that you'll spend 1196 01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,040 fucking ages creating something like 2 lights. 1197 01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:03,600 You're like great. And then you'll be like oh this 1198 01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:05,360 is shit. And then you log on the app and 1199 01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:08,280 it's like 100,000 views, 100,000 lights. 1200 01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:09,840 What the fuck? This doesn't make sense. 1201 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:10,160 Oh. Great. 1202 01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:12,920 I've posted so much about like my records, like everything. 1203 01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:14,800 And it's like, no, my partner's struggling. 1204 01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,280 That's easy throw. We just need to dominate the app 1205 01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,120 and they love that stupid shit. That's why. 1206 01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,240 So please guys come through of your top tips. 1207 01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,360 You're stupid shit. If you want us to keep existing 1208 01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:26,800 and leading the way for. You maybe they don't. 1209 01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:28,720 Maybe they just want us to fuck off, yeah? 1210 01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,680 Maybe our time is up. No, our time is not up. 1211 01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:36,440 I will be here with this behind me until I'm 80, still saying 1212 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,600 that I led the way and nothing that I led the way in. 1213 01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:41,520 I'm going to become one of those insufferable old gay people. 1214 01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:43,360 That's going to be evil lovely for you. 1215 01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,960 Thank you everyone, I will catch you very soon on the next 1216 01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,200 episode of Lesbian Supper Club. Goodbye, bye.