Hello lesbians guys, I have two guests of me today and yes, they
are my friends. One of them being Nat Traxel who
was on the podcast a few months ago where we discussed all
things insurance and out for 2026.
And we also have again, lip sing, bling bling lip sing.
The best thing about this episode is the fact that Nat
just turned up expecting to just take photos of me and any guests
that she thought was going to be on.
And she said who are we getting on?
And I said you because it turns out I can't actually let anyone
know what they're doing in the right manner.
My text to me seemed very clear. Turns out it wasn't.
Poor girl is shocked, horrified, and now we have her in quite
literally the hot seat. So thank you, Nat so much for
coming on the Lesbian Suffer Club podcast once again and this
time in the Spotify studio. I love you think that everyone
gave now a round of. Applause.
I didn't know if I was going to be back and not in this setting,
my friends. Not in this setting.
Yeah, I walked in. It was kind of like a horror
film, you know, I, I thought they were just like joking.
I was like, who's the guest? They were like you, baby girl.
And I was like, good one, who is the guest?
And it is me so. You looked as though we told you
we've just killed your mum. No, literally, it looked quite
dramatic actually, because the look of sheer shock.
Yeah, I had to. I say that I swore on Ziggy's
life just for you to believe me because you know my OCD is way
too strong to ever swear on my dog's life or anything.
I think the irony was I was just having coffee and I was talking
about being on the pod. I was like, yeah, I mean, it was
a great episode, but I don't think I was that good.
I think I really like, I'm not great at the like, I really
missed the brief. I started talking about line
bikes and, you know, Dairy Milk. I was like some angry
middle-aged woman, and yet here I am.
Well, babe, I'm just really happy to have you back on and
bamboozled or not, I'm glad that you still rose to the challenge.
And I think. That says a lot.
About your character. And judge your ass.
We'll get you. We'll get you a drink afterwards
to make up for it. I mean, that's all a girl can
dream of. So I mean, I'm going to pretend
that we weren't going to do that anyway.
Yeah. It's fine.
You know what? It's fine.
My glasses are on. I mean, there's glassness.
I'm ready. Yeah, and I thought there is no
better person to have on than you for any kind of advice
sessions and we got you guys to write in some questions for us
to answer. So I think my most mindful and
smartest emotionally intelligent.
Friend, I wanted to see what she's doing now.
Very, very. Some people call them
manipulation. Some.
People call it nice, some people.
Call it manipulation. It's working.
I don't know. Blushing.
Yeah. Come on, let's talk.
Oh yeah. But before we get into that,
there's a couple of things that I wanted to talk about, and it
was things that I was talking to live about whilst we were
getting ready. One thing I wanted to broadcast
to the lesbians can you all start washing your your hands
before fingering, please? Because I've noticed not in like
people that I'm sleeping with, but like a person, all of the
people that I don't think it's something that's ever actually
discussed. Like girls, do you actually know
how awful it is to finger somebody without washing hands?
It's terrible. And that's why there's a lot of
like, BB and Thrash going around the world in the lesbian
community, because they're actually just not washing their
fingers. Why did we get on to this?
We were just doing our makeup and I can't remember how.
Were you doing your makeup after like being on the tube or
something? No.
No, it was. It was when one of my makeup
brushes fell on the floor recently and Anastasia came in
and flipped her actual shirt and I was like fair fucks, I should
not be putting a brush that's been on the floor on my face.
And then it got me thinking, stop fingering with dirty hands.
Yeah. The rule of thumb is for me it
depends on how weird you are with your hygiene.
If you wouldn't put your fingers in your mouth with the
cleanliness level, don't be fingering it.
Don't be using it to finger. Something no, I support this as
like as an OCD gully, you know, I think that's very.
It's not going to ruin the moment for me.
If you're like, bear with me one second.
I'm just going to go and wash my hands.
Do you think? Yeah.
Was that the way that you say it?
Yeah, Yeah. 01 second then I go and wash my hands and I'm back
back in the zone. And if anything, you feel like
safer in that moment because like I think in my head as I'm
thinking, when was the last time you wash your hands?
Like, do you? Think that in the moment.
Yeah. How much of this is just on
mental illness? Well, a lot of it is based on
mental illness, but I think a lot of it is based on like, you
know, some, some bad situations I've been in anchors.
Yeah. I think it's a considerable
thing to do. Yeah, you also like give me NHS
vibes when you say that I felt very safe, like you were like
nurse free. I like I'm Yeah.
And, you know, wash my hands. Yeah, I'm going to take care of
you here. Yeah, just bear with me.
I have to sanitize my fingers before penetrating.
You. Yeah.
Because a lot, like, terrible things can happen.
You know, one of my favorite, one not favorite, an interesting
court case was that someone was done for manslaughter because of
an injury that they had caused during fingering.
Shut up. Yeah.
What was the injury? Well, there was someone died
through fingering. Now I've got another fear.
Great. Well, I think there was like a
signet ring involved and there was a an injury that then I
believe that the victim got sepsis.
A sepsis. I was going to say sepsis.
Wasn't my like taught law course?
I was like, wait, hold up. That's terrifying.
Take off your signet rings. Yeah, I mean, that's a niche
problem, but also just take off rings in general I think is a
good rule of thumb. Oh God, I know.
What the fuck is up with that? Yeah.
Take your rings off. Do you take all your rings?
I'm just looking at your hands because you've got loads of.
Rings on. That's another thing that kind
of destroys the mood slightly, but it's only on the.
Oh, it's only on the right hand. There you go.
It has to be done. Shove it straight under the
pillow, straight up the vagina as soon as I take them off.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was the one thing that I
wanted to mention and the second thing I wanted to mention.
And I love how I'm sat here again with my sheehy loafers on
with the socks, but how the Michael Jackson movie has come
out and I can't wait to see it. And as a long term, long time
Michael Jackson stand an apologist, can I just say you're
all fake? Because look at everyone now
loving Michael Jackson. We can't get a booking.
No, I'm not complaining, by the way, because I'm happy that, you
know, he's having his renaissance.
But you should have just always been Team Michael.
What about when he was alive and he was going through it?
Everyone demonized him. One other thing I was thinking
as well, because I constantly have like a conspiracy theory
hat on now. Have we noticed that not too
long before the Michael Jackson movie was announced, they
started to release evidence of how he was like basically
helping the kids from getting into situations with Jeffrey
Epstein and how he'd actually actively mentioned Jeffrey
Epstein in interviews and also was kind of like going against
it pro Winfrey and all this kind of stuff?
I find it very funny timing that all of that came out before the
movie was then launched and released and announced.
And who's benefiting from the movie and are they the people
that were in the circle that probably got him killed?
Perhaps. So now it's like, I don't know,
I don't know, but I'm really excited to see it regardless.
I thought you were going to go yesterday with Anna.
It was sold out. Couldn't get booking crazy and
then we would like, oh, let's go Friday.
Can't no Absolutely gutted. And me and Anna are really going
to cause a ruckus in the cinema. As you should.
Yeah, he he, she devil was proud of.
No, I need to see that is it good?
Is it? I mean, it is.
It's like sweet and nostalgic and like feel good.
I spoke to Olivia about this the other day and she said but she
loves it was good. But she said there was a lot of
references to like modern day stuff like Instagram and like
likes and the digital world and she's like, wanted it to be a
bit more nostalgic. Yeah, I think at times that kind
of like worked. I think it was quite good.
Like obviously a lot of shit that went down then wouldn't be
like appropriate now. So they did like a tongue in
cheek when, you know, she was Miranda was saying something
like, you know, you can't, you can't say that anymore.
And she's. Like, well, now the film's
boring. I know, but she still kind of
says so. It's quite as well, yeah.
I wanna see that. They just say you can't say that
anymore when she says something. When she's already said.
It yeah, like that. No, like you can't, you can't
mention. That was their loophole.
Yeah, like it was quite funny in a clever loophole, but the one
that really annoyed me was in Practical Magic to the trailer
when they like mentioned Tinder and I'm like.
Oh no. That's too far.
They're like my Tinder bio and I'm absolutely not that film
means some. That film means so.
Much and if they mess that up and.
I have a fear that they already have like and and I also have to
say Joey King and Maisie Williams is the cast of the
kids. Why didn't they keep the
original cast? Joe, that one of them actually
reached out, Right. Big actresses I know.
Because Evan, Rachel would, Yeah.
I mean, maybe it's because she probably looks the same age as
Nicole and Sandra now. It's like a classic Hollywood.
They, they are practical magic themselves, but like the same
amount of time has supposed to have gone on.
So wouldn't it be more realistic that their kids at the age that
they just would be now? Yeah.
And it's the fact that Evan Rachel Wood actually reached out
and was like, I'll even do a cameo.
And they said no. That's Dad, that's me.
Brilliant. Yeah, her and True Blood.
Also someone and I, I feel like you'll really appreciate this as
an artist and very visual. Someone did a TikTok.
Basically, she's starting a petition for them to bring back
the old cinematic cameras so that that gives off that warm,
glowy, nostalgic feel. And they were saying if you're
going to do a sequel, film it with the same cameras that you
filmed it with the first time. And everyone is like, hard.
Agreed. They're like, bring back that
like magical glow and that grade and like not everything has to
be so HD. Yeah.
And it, you know, I saw that some of the posts and they were
like, it just looks like a commercial and it does.
It looks so clinical and like you're right.
So HD, it's like, I don't want to, I don't want to see.
Actually going to request this starts getting filmed on a
little broken film. Too many paws are being
witnessed now. No, but it's true.
I think it's, you really see the difference when they do a sequel
as well, because it's so sad. Yeah, it's so sad because it
just takes you off that world and it brings you to the modern
day world, which is very clinical.
And using words like Tinder and stuff and like, you know, it
just, it does take it away. I think that's a real shame.
I mean, I all hail Nicole Kidman and Sandra Bullock.
They can do no wrong in my eyes. And no doubt they're going to do
an amazing performance. But I also think it's such a
queer film, but practical magic. Yeah, it just is anything witchy
like immediately gay. Yeah, sorry.
Gay spot is Yeah, so gay. The Craft Gay gay.
Like so gay. OK, yeah, I love it and I, I
can't wait. But it was, it is a real comfort
movie to me. So I really hope that they just
don't make it too commercialized.
And I have a fear that they're going to.
The colours look really muted as well.
They do. And I'm like, it's a, it's a
witchy, witchy film. Like what are you doing?
Just You 2 turning into movie Chris.
We should have our own podcast. It's literally just like movie.
Be critics as this game this bad very.
Minimal. Freya and I want to do our our
own little podcast in Freya's house in the creative room, and
it's just called What the fuck, Yeah.
I would listen. We literally sit down and we
only wear sunglasses and caps and we'll just go what the fuck.
I was going to sit down and be like on this week's episode of
What the fuck I think. That's A and just.
Talk about what the fuck's going on.
Yeah, because there's always something where I go.
What the fuck? Always I'm in a constant state
of WTF, like all the time. It's fucking mental.
A great being on a constant state of what the fuck we got
you guys to write in some messages so I will answer them
or will now that. You're experiencing the board in
live action. Sorry, Perry, the board, but
yeah, I think it's always good to have a board to bring your
problems to them. I got quite a few more here by
the way girls, so it's. Like, oh, I'm excited.
The first question that I want us to answer, somebody said how
to deal with a homophobic environment.
Like it? Depends what.
Friends. Family.
School job. She just.
Girl. I know what you mean.
It's like a different approach to each one.
So I think that we go family first.
So if we have a homophobic environment in your family, what
is the best way that we would deal with that now knowing what
we know? I'm.
Going to be so annoying. And I'm like so much depends on
your age, your financial, like independence, like where you are
in the world because yeah. Yeah, because I feel like when I
came out and my mum was really homophobic, I couldn't just like
get up and move out like it was before I went to uni.
So it's kind of stuck there and it was a bit, it was a bit like.
Yeah, morning. But a lot of people like stay in
the closet until they, you know, hit that like 18 years old.
So what made you like, bite the bullet?
Or was it just circumstantial? Because I had a girlfriend at
the time and like, she kept coming out, like coming over to
stay. Obviously my mum didn't know the
girl had already come out and I'd already told my friends.
So I just thought my mum's going to be cool with this.
I'm a teller. Because she has gay friends too.
Yeah, I mean my mum, my mum's great now, but at the time it
was rough. It'd be rough out there.
I think I was. I was 21 when my mom found out.
My parents found out that I was gay.
I didn't still have the financial freedom, though, to
move out, and I didn't really know what the first step of even
kind of doing that really looked like.
And I threw my mom a surprise birthday party.
Yeah. For like her birthday.
Wait, how did you come out? I'm confused.
I. Come out.
I was in the trenches of the coming out.
She wasn't speaking to me. I threw her a surprise birthday
party that I paid for. Insane.
However, it did work. Yeah, when in a homophobic.
Place, throw a party. I think for me it was like a
gesture and it was out of sheer panic and it was out of a lack
of acceptance and I wanted to feel loved again.
So I obviously did something that I knew that my mum would
like, which is attention. But I would also say in any
situation is just to like stand your ground within yourself.
But getting angry never normally fixes the situation.
As much as we are allowed to be angry, hate telling people that
they can't be because of course you're going to be angry like
you're getting hated for who you are.
But the way to approach it is never anger.
And it's standing in your confidence within yourself and
kind of we find ways of making ourselves safe.
But like you said, you know, if you can, if you know that you
are in a very heavily homophobic family.
I know this isn't the advice that maybe I should give, but
wait until you are in a position where you can move out before
you come out because it could be potentially very dangerous as
well to live like physically within the house.
And you don't want to make yourself like you're homeless,
you know, and. I agree.
I think in in a utopia or hopefully one day the future,
you know, that won't be the case.
But I think there's a lot of, I think at a certain time, there's
a lot of like pressure to be like, you must come out and
things. And then sometimes it's, it
might not be the best for you right in that moment to come
out. And it's like, you just have to
put your health and your mental health and your safety fast.
And yes, it should be all like, you come out and you're accepted
and everything's fine. But if you're like, look, I got
one year left in this house and I'm off to university and then I
can be myself a wise star. The part why make that life so
much harder, unfortunately. But what this what this listener
might have said, though, they might already be out and be in
that homophobic environment environment.
That's one thing that I'm thinking of.
So one thing that I would say is find your safety.
So like find queer people that you can be friends with.
You know, you kind of create your own family.
Also, of course, like listen to podcasts like this and other
queer things and watch queer characters and like
representation. I think that all of those things
will help you through that really difficult time.
Or whether that be if it's at work and you can't quit your
job, then again, having that same thing, I don't think that
anyone should ever put up with hate those.
So I'm sure you can find another job.
Like, shut the fuck out if they're your friends, dump your
fucking friends. Get new friends.
I'm sorry. You don't have to be stuck to
the friends that you have. Yeah, you might love them.
They're not good people. Sorry.
They're. Not for you.
They're not for you. And like, if they're going to be
homophobic, they're also going to have a load of other shit
that like you're clearly not going to align with.
They're not going to be your people.
And if it's your family, annoying but.
Hopefully in time it'll get better and.
Hopefully in time and like I'm proof, you're proof that over
time it does get better and it can get better.
But I understand that for some people, they don't have that
luxury. And that fucking kills me
because I just think how awful that must be to be in that
position, you know? But it doesn't mean that you
have to be alone. I think the main killer of all
of these things is like feeling so alone.
And maybe I should start like hiring myself out to come to
situations. I would actually love it.
You'd be like. Brilliant at that.
Be like. Go to a family.
Hope, yeah, but like I want to come up can you come hire a
freighter that. Would be brilliant.
Oh, come along and be like, yeah, she's gay.
Yeah. And what so am I?
Also, you are very strong so. Phoebe, like, do you want an arm
wrestle? Yeah, I'm actually just flexing
my muscle now. I've got like 1.
It's like full Popeye. Oh yeah, just just the one.
Don't worry about it. One needs No, I think that's
really good. Advice.
Yeah. Don't let it.
Don't let the. Don't let the buses get you
down. Mic Drop.
Did you ever used to like, read Agony Arts?
Back in the day on like in like magazines.
Yeah. Love them.
I don't know why I was so invested like as a as a youth,
an 8 year old, I was like, what would I do in a divorce?
I was like, really great. Really.
Like I must not. Sure I could do the the the
micro cheating one. I just said like.
That OK. Someone said the micro cheating
debate. My girlfriend says flirting
doesn't count as cheating because it's just vibes.
She's replying to girls on Instagram with her eyes and come
over then jokes. Am I being uptight or is she
taking the piss? Dump.
I I think the board are going to disagree on this one.
Okay, replying to stories with girls with flirty emojis I think
is showing intention A. 100%. Right.
If you're doing it to your friends, totally fine.
If you're doing it to people that you don't know, I think
that that's suspicious. I do.
I think that it's totally fine to say like, wow, that's
beautiful. You're useful.
Liking photos. I don't give a fuck about that.
Like as many photos as you want flirt with people, that's also
fine. As long as I'm aware that like
that's kind of within your nature rather than just being
outwardly trying to get someone and also jokey come over text,
no. That one, that one's not great.
I mean, come on. Yeah.
I mean, I will preface this. I think it's like whatever you
decide in your dynamic is considered cheating.
That's it. I know some people are very,
very, very militant. Others have a more laissez faire
approach. So it's kind of, I don't think
that's like A1 shoe fits all approach, but I think yeah.
So it really does depend personally.
So if you vocalize like, hey, I'm not OK with that, then your
girlfriend shouldn't be doing that.
I do agree with that. Like there are boundaries and I
think that falls into a reasonable boundaries.
Well, it's not like you are looking at that girl, but I do,
I do think that it can get a bit slippery and people can be
acting out of a place of possessiveness and insecurity
rather than a healthy boundary. And then I think it's really
hard to decipher where that's like that line is because as, as
I say, it is subjective and it depends on the couple.
But sometimes I don't know, sometimes I hear other people's
roles and I'm like, I know, different strokes for different
folks, but my God like. Have a little flirt, you know, I
mean, I think I think flirting is like something it's very.
Human it's. Fun and you should exercise it.
It's like a muscle and I think it's a wonderful thing to flirt
with. No intention, you know.
That's my issue is the intention right?
So like send as many emojis as you want if your intentions are
pure, but I don't. I think it gives off an
impression though, to the person receiving it that you're DTF,
like you're done to fuck. So I think that yeah, like I
said, like flirting for me fine. And I think that that is a very,
like you said, like healthy boundary to have that if your
partner and you're that type of person, you love doing emojis
and come over then text, you love it, but your partner is
like that actually makes me feel a bit like shit when you do
that. Like it's fine to be flirty,
etcetera, but you know that you're giving off like this
impression then, but surely you should also like it's not
impertinent that you do send those emojis.
It's not a more death situation. It's not necessarily even a part
of your character. It would obviously depend if I'm
being outrageously flirtatious and being inappropriate, then
Fairfax that she can say that. But if you're just picking up on
my general way of being that like, you know who I am from
like day one, then I would need to say, OK, there's no intention
there. That's genuinely just who I am.
So like that, it's such a personality traitor.
And I do think when you meet someone and if you've you're
like, wow, that person is so electric and charismatic and
magnetic and she's such a flirt. How brilliant, you know?
And then you get together and you're like, oh, she's flooding.
And you're like, yeah, that's what you signed up for, baby.
Like that's in the product description.
You know, I think it's, you have to kind of know if you're
capable of being with someone that's flirty with other people.
Or if that's because I know some people, they love it when like
their partner flirts with others.
It's like or when their partners like flirted with others and
they're like why would I want to be with someone that no one's
flirting with? Oh, I want everyone to want my
girlfriend. What do you mean?
It's such a compliment when they do that and it's such a like the
worst thing is I think when someone walks up to someone and
it's just starts talking to them and they're like, I have a
boyfriend, I have a girlfriend. Like like immediately like also
like rude. Like don't put like presume I'm
making a move. But yeah, I think there is a
fine line, but also I don't know.
It's it's a tricky one because I I feel in.
Like. Autonomy with people.
I think if I were to see my girlfriend sending like heart
eye emotions and stuff, I don't think I'd even really bring it
up. But I'd be a bit like, yeah, but
I don't think me and my character would really bring
that up. But if I saw like a come over
then text I'd be like OK what the fuck is that?
Yeah. And I think the main crux of it
is if you vocalize something makes you unhappy, and if that
person he dismisses that, that's weird like.
Yeah. That's not a good partner, so
for you agreed. So what's your take on the micro
cheating? What?
What do you think as the most jealous one out of the board?
Hi, I am. Aren't I the most jealous one?
Yeah. I just wouldn't like it.
Like I just wouldn't like if it. If it was to their friends,
fine, whatever. But if I saw them do it
continuously like like flame emojis, heart eye emojis come
over and I'd be like, what is going on?
That's not just vibes. Especially consecutively to the
same person. And also I'd want to see what
the person receiving it as replying saying.
Imagine they're not even replying and they just keep
doing it. They're.
Like, well, that's embarrassing. Yeah, I feel like that's just
also beyond flirting. I feel like that's like pursuing
someone, which I think is a very.
Different. By that point I've gotten the
ick because the other other person hasn't responded.
Yeah. And then I'm like, oh.
Yeah, exactly. I was like, God, you look like a
loser. I don't want to be with a loser.
Sorry. See you later.
Yeah, Nah. I just no, I wouldn't like.
It. I'm too sensitive.
I was about to say your star sign but it's the same as mine.
Yeah, must be different moons, right?
What are you I? Have to check my costar, bear
with me. I'm a Capricorn Scorpio moon and
then Capricorn Capricorn Capricorn.
Capricorn.
That's my sister sign. Well, our sister sign.
My my Moon's Capricorn. Oh, oh, that.
My son, my my son is my son's Cancer, my Moon's Capricorn and
my rising Sagittarius. Riddle me that then who knows?
OK, I'm just damaged. I.
Think it could also just be like past experiences shape us into
who we are, right? And it doesn't necessarily.
Yeah, not to discredit, I guess psychology and experiences.
Yeah, I'll do it. Quite a few that have just come
through. Oh, fun.
Unrequited love, constantly falling for friends and having
limerance. Damn girl limerance be bad.
Yeah, just. Talk to me about it.
Sucks. I think it sucks.
Limerance probably feels more powerful than love and is more
dangerous, but will not last as long.
And once the limerance has been realized, not just by being like
oh I realize this is limerance once the reality sets in and
that limerance will then just magically go away.
Which is quite fantastic really. But.
Is it not a good thing? No, no, that's good.
No limerance. Oh, you think it's a good thing
this is? You're kind of like fantasising
someone in your head, aren't you?
Being like, oh, we could be this and this is.
And if it's like never going to happen, then it's like, oh.
That's like a crush, no? It's it's more intense than a
crush. Yeah, like obsessive.
Yeah, OK. Yeah, like it is quite obsessive
and you've kind of it, it feels as if in that moment that
they're actually like in love with this person, but they're
not so. And it's not the honeymoon
stage, it's something different. No, no, not even the honeymoon
stage. It is like you really don't know
this person very well and you've brought up this kind of like
image and fantasy and like just, it's just like a mixed bag of
like desire and fantasy and everything you know that it
makes your body think that you're in love and.
And this person keeps having that, but it's unrequited.
And it's unrequited too. And.
I feel like it could be quite fun if it's quite, can it not?
Usually the limerence happens when it is unrequited, when it's
like, not real really, do you know what I mean?
So like, if that person were to like her back, how would she
really feel, you know? How do you deal with unrequited
love or limits? I'm required to anything like
it's, it's fun. It's not fun, I can say that.
For free that much. Yeah.
I think it also just like, hijacks your brain, like by the
terms of it, like your neurotransmitters are like, Oh
my God, intermittent reinforcements, like a little
chase, a little self worth at the end of this carrot for the
donkey that is, you know, me literally.
I think, yeah, it's a nightmare because I think once you can't
have something, it puts it probably on a bit of a pedestal
and makes you chase it more. Whereas if you had it, you'd be
like. Think it like consumes your mind
as well. How do we?
Ruin a person that you have limerance over like what do we
do? Do you start imagining them in
like really it worthy scenarios? Yeah, Yeah.
I think so. Like or just write down every
like floor. Yeah, yeah.
Or like imagine them straining on the toilet.
That will do it. Yeah, that works.
I think. Do you know what I think my mom
actually said something similar to me once when I was obsessed
with someone when I was a teenager.
She's like, she's like, you need to, you need to get over this.
Like, imagine, imagine him shitting good.
And I was like, oh, God. And it worked.
So he doesn't shit. He would be like, yes, perfect.
Yeah, I think, I think that's a really good way of getting over
a crush quite fast, actually. We're not really getting over
it, but kind of like putting them in the reality box, right?
Do you know what I mean? But I think.
The friend. Thing, the friend thing is
difficult because it's like maybe you are craving a level of
intimacy from friendships that you're, you know, could actually
be normal. Like I am very intimate with my
friends and we have sex all the time.
No, but that's true with me and all my friends, always very
intimate, like I'll happily like kiss my friends on the lips and
like all this kind. Of stuff we were holding hands
in the street we were holding. Hands in the street today
because I'm like, I just want some physical touch, you know,
And like, I'm just with touches with yeah, with touches and
like, I'm only friends with touches.
OK. But I think, you know, is there
a level of intimacy there that is actually normal?
And are you confusing that to with like crushing on them when
maybe you don't understand your sexuality to the point?
Because also there's another thing with being gay is that
sometimes you'll feel like almost like a predator being
like close with your friends and you're like, oh, maybe I maybe
this is actually a crush because I don't even know what that line
is with my friends. And like, I'm really getting in
my head now because I don't trust myself to not have
feelings for someone that is maybe like beautiful, has a
personality that I like, even though they're my friend.
Yeah, I think it is also confusing.
Like, you know, that whole in general, when you're friends
with a bunch of gay people and you're gay, that probably is
this like friendship or flirting element, which I think you
probably as you as you age, you become more, you know, able to
sense. But maybe it's also that.
And then it's like a self fulfilling prophecy where you're
constantly falling for people who don't like you back.
So you're like, well, you know. Yeah, and you keep speaking into
the universe. Oh, I just keep liking people
who don't like me back. So therefore you just.
Yeah, the self fulfilling prophecy.
You just keep doing it time and time again because you now
believe that this is like your trope as a person.
Like this is your thing, You know, I don't know.
What do you think, love? How do you find being really
attracted and fancy me so much? And how do you measure it?
How do you cope? So it's so hard, so hard.
I see you every day. I'm just yearning for you.
Great beyond I think, I think, I can't imagine like being deeply
in love with your friend, like someone like you're really close
to and seeing them all the time. Like I'd really struggled with
that because I'd be like, what is going on here?
Maybe you just have to like sleep with someone else just to
get it out of your head. True.
Or maybe just like friend zone yourself really.
Hard to have a good talking to yourself.
Yeah, like friend zone yourself. Like if you can see that they're
really not interested in you, start making these conversations
with your friends quite vulgar and vile and conversations you
never had with somebody that you actually fancied.
Throw yourself into the deep end, start to see maybe more of
who they really are. And it might just.
Change. But I think you probably need to
like say to yourself at some point, like if it's quieted that
night, there's nothing you can do.
No, it's not going to happen. So you've got to and.
It's painful, but yeah, they're not your person.
I think also there is a certain personal state of mind that
makes you more susceptible to chasing that type of person.
And often it's like if you're lacking a certain sense of self
maybe or you like want that validation, like going on a date
with someone that's like, I really like you.
It's not going to hit the same as like the chase.
Like I will make them love me and I will win them over and
then they will love me and then I will love me and it's like.
They've tied their worth to that person now.
They've done it now. You haven't done it now and
there is no, there's no light at the end of the tunnel because if
they start liking, you'll be like, well, why would they like
me? Like let's go for another
person. So yeah, do self work Friendzone
them. Yeah, I think, I think
ultimately the self work becomes a big part of that because
you've got to think, why do I keep having these this, this
intense feeling of luminance for people that don't even like me
back? Yeah, you're OK there, Lev.
Yeah. So you did this thing with the
eyes? I know, but I think it's just
honestly it's just the advance crash.
Oh yeah, don't know this. Is delicious delicious snack
that you guys are having. The ADHD medication.
Come to Mama. Do you know what?
Once I have a beer, it'll be fine.
Somebody said I'm a baby gay. Do I stay with the first girl
I've seriously dated or explore? Am I missing out?
Explore. Explore.
What do you think? Why have you paused?
Well I was going to say grass isn't always greener too like.
Well, you can come back. Yeah, you can go back.
OK, OK. We leave the relationship with a
foot in the door like the toxic girls we are.
This is. You got to go and see the world
and then realize your hometown's the best.
Like that's the plot. That is the plot of the movie of
many, many movies. But I think it's dangerous, the
1st girl, yeah, because you are going to tie all the emotions
that you feel towards her and like, make them synonymous with
her. Like, you know, it's not the
novelty of the experience. You'll be like, no, this is
love. This is this is her.
It's like, no babes, you're just gay.
And you've been like, dating men before, you know, like, it's
really dangerous because if you don't go elsewhere, I think she
can hold a lot of power. But she's nice.
Fabulous. Yeah, I think if you're already
having the question, should I score?
That's the answer. Yeah.
Because if yeah, if you weren't thinking that, you'd just be
happy. To and I remember having that
feeling as well, you know, like should I explore like from my
first female relation think it's important, you know, explore.
I've explored I've done many in exploration.
I've done Dora the Explorer horror, the explorer, so brave
or the explorer is brilliant, but I think that I needed so
much of that in order to grow into the person that I am today.
And I say the same thing all the time.
If you truly are meant to be with somebody, I really don't
think that that's ever going to go away.
People come back into your life, you know when the moment is
right and for you to maybe like receive them again and them to
receive you. I don't think you know unless
you've done something insanely heinous to somebody that that
ever, you know, really changes. I think that you need to go and
explore your life and otherwise you're just going to be thinking
what if forever I? Will say that maybe maybe I was
too quick to say explore because like if the relationship is
really brilliant and you know everything is going right and
your only inkling to leave is like, oh, should I explore?
I think I've actually come across a few couples that are
like one of them is a baby gay and the others like go off and
explore like within the remits of our relationship like you
could. Also have a conversation about
it. You never know, you might just
say, look, this is my first ever relationship in this space.
And it doesn't mean that I don't love you, but I have this like
urge within me that like, I don't want to lose you.
But I also need to explain that has happened like quite a few
times. And maybe might be best to have
a conversation like that with like a couple therapist,
depending on like how long you've been together, like, you
know, and have someone who can kind of guide that for you.
Because I do think that that's also a really difficult
situation to put yourself into or conversation to have.
But again, that comes with privilege and money and all this
different stuff. So yeah, I would just say
explore, but you can do it in many ways.
Yeah. Because like, like I said, the
grass isn't always greener as well, though there is, I do
think that it's such like a human nature thing to be like,
what else? What else?
And always feel like you're
missing out on something. And it's like you're not honey,
you know, like odds are you're not missing out.
And if you've got someone who like you're in love with, then
they're in love with you. Like that's one of the most
beautiful things that you can have, so.
Amen. Amen to that stuff.
So true. Gut feeling.
Nothing is technically wrong, but I have this constant gut
feeling. Something's off.
Do you trust your intuition in relationships or can anxiety
trick you? Oh wait, did wait, did she say
nothing's wrong? Nothing's wrong, but there's
something in her gut that's saying something.
'S off. Always trust your gut.
Always. Trust your gut, but anxiety can
be tricks on you, as can OCD. Don't we know it that track so?
Oh yeah, yeah. It's it's hard.
Maybe maybe that's just, maybe just be open and say to your
partner like, hey, I know nothing's wrong, but I'm feeling
a certain type of way. Maybe she just needs some
reassurance that like, you know. But then they could also take
that wrong because imagine you're like a great partner and
you do everything and then someone's like.
So I actually don't really trust you fully.
I don't know, I. Feel like a lot of the time
though your gut doesn't lie. Like my guts told me in so many
situations when something was off and the worst thing I ever
did was ignore it. I actually agree and there was
no signs. Intuition and you will figure
out with age the difference between intuition and anxiety
because they do feel a bit different.
They I'm team trust gut as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And maybe, yeah, try and try and see is this anxiety or is this
gut like maybe do some tests, There's probably a test online
to be like, is this your gut feeling or is that OCD?
Like BuzzFeed test? Sure.
Yeah, because like, especially like female intuition is crazy.
Oh yeah. Like it's bad, the amount of
things. Yeah, all.
Comes back to witches. It all comes back to the.
Witch sense it's like how did I do you see that reel, which was
like how I found out and it's just like waking up in the night
with your eyes shooting open. Wow, I know.
Really I didn't see I'm on witch talk you guys.
Wow, I need to. Go on witch talk, I think yeah.
I'm just on tarot talk. Still, it doesn't leave.
No this is great, comparing yourself to her ex.
Her ex is hotter than me. Like objectively I can't stop
comparing myself. It's making me insecure in ways
I've never felt before. How do I get over that?
That might be just you saying that she's hotter than you.
Yeah, I would. I would say the same thing as
well. Yeah, objectiveness, I realise
it doesn't really exist. And yeah, the more I like shoot
people in photography. By the way, she's a
photographer. I'm not a serial killer.
Yeah. Just claim the more I realized
that because I think I had a very kind of analytical
approach, I was like that's, you know, this is what beauty is and
etcetera, etcetera. But I've had people like
genuinely, hand on heart, look me in the eye and say I think
Angelina Jolie is not attractive.
There you go. And that's when I realized I was
like, holy, he really Is it really?
Is the beholder. It really is.
And also devil's advocate, maybe she is hotter than you but she
might smell or be a terrible person or not really be funny or
is arrogant and selfish. Like it's so cliche to be like
looks on everything but. It's true, it's so easy to
compare yourself to people, but I think maybe you just need to
remember like your partners with you, not the X.
Comparison thief of joy, but it's it is difficult.
I would also say as well that the way in which you are with
someone makes you way more attractive or least attractive.
So she might look back at her ex and actually see her as like an
ugly person. I genuinely, genuinely changes
the way that I look at someone. Once I've been witness to their
bad behaviour or like who they are, suddenly that person is no
longer hot. And I was like, God, I used to
think they were hot. And they're like objectively
like a hot person. As well, like when you fancy
someone, it's like, Oh my God, they're like Victory secret
model. And then the goggles, you know,
might come off a little. Bit yeah, exactly.
And just yeah, just having that like inner confidence.
Stop comparing yourself to her ex, to her ex.
And also, if you're doing this, don't do it, but like, like
don't mention to your to your girlfriend that like you're not
as attractive. Do not do that.
Don't put don't put it out there into the world.
And if you've done it, take it back.
Think it back. Remember what I said that one
time when I didn't think I was as hot as your ex?
Take it Back didn't. Mean it.
Yeah, No, I agreed. Also, like social media, let's
be honest, it's fake. Yeah.
And it's just, it's a recipe for disaster because, you know, it's
just it's propaganda of the person she's going to be putting
her best. Foot forward social media is so
insanely fake. That is very.
Very rare. It's all a lie.
All. Right last one dating straight
girls first timers yes or no, they've got to start somewhere.
I like that ending. They stole my life.
Have you ever done it? Would you ever do it?
Thoughts you? Slept with straight girls, yeah.
Tried to get entangled with straight girls.
Didn't go to plan. And I yeah.
There is like a fetishization of it.
Slightly like the straight girl trope, right?
Oh, is that a good thing? Yeah, because it's like you're
like winning a trophy. You're the Turner.
Yeah, Tina Turner. What do you think?
I had this thing probably about God maybe six years ago, and I
was sleeping with this straight girl for quite some time.
And I was like, I don't know. I didn't really think of it in
like a romantic sense where it was going to progress anywhere.
But then she got a boyfriend and I was like, oh, that's stung.
Also, be careful that their internalized homophobia doesn't
sabotage you all your reputation.
There have been times when I've heard about stories of girls who
are like, straight girls, and they will be like, on the sly,
sleeping with, like, another girl because they're clearly
like, not straight. Yeah, but then will make the
girl look weird, who is the lesbian or almost predatory to
save their back that she will happen with jazz.
Jazz and Inger. Yeah, but this Chelsea?
Also happened to me with said girl.
She then all of a sudden was like this is done, one can't do
it anymore. You've groomed me and I was
like, what? Yeah, me too fat.
You do give off a grooming impression.
With my cap giving Joe from you. Being realistic.
She was like, yeah, all those shots you bought me when we were
out, like I could see what you were doing.
And I was like, hang on a fucking second, there's two of
us in this so. Disrespectful to actual victims
as well. I know.
And she was the one who actually not to be that person, but she
came on to me like I obviously never saw it in that way.
And then she did. I was like, oh, but now she's
engaged and she's pregnant. But they would rather put
somebody, and this is not to negate there are such things as
groomers and abusers out there, but it does happen to innocent
victims of this where they would rather make the lesbian look
like a predator and a groomer. Then this is obviously quite
rare. But I want to make it very, very
clear. And I think that Inger has done
a very similar thing to Jazz. I'm in Chelsea because, sorry,
Inger, if you're listening to this, and I doubt that you are,
but you might be, she has put herself in a situation on TV to
not look gay in the slightest, right?
So in order to do that, she's kind of had to Chuck Jazz under
the bus and make her look a bit crazy and inappropriate when
that wasn't the case, you know? So I think that that is really,
really harmful. I think with the straight girls,
yeah, you can sleep with them. Maybe just don't put all your
eggs in the basket, though, you know?
Yes, it's fun. Yeah.
It is, but they're never truly straight.
OK, that's. What I was going to say, I feel
like it's almost like an oxymoron, like sleeping with
straight girls. Like if you're sleeping with
them, then I mean, they're not straight.
They're not straight. And I guess they realize that
depends where their relationship to their sexuality is.
If they've always been straight, they're like kind of want to try
it out. No, not for me.
Depends on their approach. Depends on their language.
Listen to language that people use.
If they keep saying, oh, but I'm straight, Ben.
Yeah, OK, sure. Because at that point, but they
were like, God, I always thought I was straight.
But however, like, this is clearly not giving straight
right now. So, you know, I think that
that's also OK. Agreed.
But you got to be, you got to be a tough cookie, I think to
handle that so. Yeah.
Yeah, don't. I don't have it as like your
first radio I feel like. No, you could be quite well
seasoned to handle a straight girl.
It's like a level 10, level 10. What level do you reckon where
all that? I reckon we've maxed it.
Yeah, I've got a fucking lesbian podcast.
Do lesbian events. Yeah, that's true.
You're at the top of the. Total.
But you never know. We'll do this again next year
and you're like, you know what? That was actually only level 6.
Yeah, more levels I've. Got many war badges I don't want
anymore. We've graduated, yeah, I've
graduated. I've.
Graduated. Yeah, right.
That's it for the questions, but some girl who I'm actually
obsessed with her like she always is on my TikTok lives and
like puts in the funniest little like comments and everyone on
there. And the other day when I was on
TikTok live, she was like, oh, I just sent you a voice message
Horror Story and I have not yet heard this.
Neither is it, but none of us have.
So I'm going to play it and you guys are going to hear it for
the first time with us. Are we ready, kids?
Today is full of surprise. Today is full of surprise.
Ready, Liv? Yeah.
Hi lesbians. Actually, I just want to say
thank you to all of you, Freya, Scarlett and Liv.
Oh, everything that you do has not gone unnoticed.
I discovered your podcast in June of last year, when I say,
and it was around the same time that I had come to terms with
the fact that I was a lesbian. And obviously I don't know you,
but I really, really appreciate everything that you guys do and
continue to do. And I look forward to whenever
it is that you decide to come here.
Really cute. Just really thank you for being
people that I admire and hopefully can grow the balls and
the confidence to get to that level at 1:00.
Point level 10. So anyway, this is my first
dating story. This is the most recent dating
story. So I started dating this girl.
Went off really really well. We met each other about like
another month now, so not too long and whatever.
When we went through our first date, super super lovely, super
super chill. Nothing happened, just a little
kiss at the end. Second date came over, had a
bottle of wine, one thing led to another, had some fun, it was a
fantastic night. The third date was last week.
We went for a coffee and then she had previously invited me to
her art show, but unbeknownst to me, her brother, her brother's
girlfriend were all there, all of her friends.
And it was at her work and I didn't know that it was at her
work and. Why am I already scared?
Like I'm like on the edge of. My yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I'm already getting nervous.
Till the week prior. So obviously that's a little
intense, but I had given her like plenty of, you know, ways
out like I didn't. I said if you want me there, I
will be there. If you don't want me there, I
won't be there. It's a little bit intense.
When you're dating someone, you know, not establishing what we
are or anything like that. So the kind of a weird mixed
signal a thing for me, which is quite annoying.
And then yeah, got her the flowers like you all suggested.
And she just kind of. Just really quickly, she was on
a TikTok live the other day and she said to me, and it was
actually Anastasia that was also on the TikTok live, I think.
And she was like, oh, I'm going to go meet a girl for a date.
Should I bring flowers? And I said, yes, bring flowers
because it's always so nice to receive flowers.
And if she doesn't receive them, well then bin her off.
OK, That was that was my advice. So she bought the flowers.
So cute. It was like, this is a bit too
intense. And I said, oh, that's fair, the
flowers. But also I think you're
contributing. I feel personally offended.
To her art gallery opening. I think it's a beautiful
gesture. Yeah, but there was.
It was the flowers. Afterwards, after she had
invited her to a fucking reunion of her family and friends at her
work, she brings her flowers and she says it's too much.
Yeah, not that it matters. Did she bring it to the gallery
or did she just bring it? Afterwards, after the invite, I
think it was like another date that they had after.
That's so. That's so nice.
Always bring flowers. Yeah.
I've brought flowers to a I've brought flowers to a.
First Anastasia, what flowers are second?
And it was so cute. I loved it so.
Like who is unhappy to receive flowers?
I'm grateful, actually. That is, but they're an.
Invoice. Yeah.
Factor in that is that she's not out as a bisexual.
I think a lot of her friends know that she is, but not her
brother or her family. So I think that that's that
impetus as well that she has like this.
Oh, I'm, you know, I'm gay and I have to deal with the fact that
I'm dating someone that I like and she's giving me no
indication that she doesn't like me.
So I just, I'm a bit like, that's the first dating story.
Oh no. That's the first story.
Hold on, there's another one. But first of all, let's just
what the fuck? And again, this is prime example
of how internalized homophobia can really ruin a situation and
make somebody else either look or feel crazy.
Yeah, because what this girl did here, that was not intense.
You showed nothing but kindness, charm and generosity.
Yeah, what the hell. Like what the fuck?
Odd. Also it's completely insane that
she would make such a grand gesture of like inviting you to
a family event and then kind of say like giving flowers is too
much like. Yeah, and then saying that
you're like in the closet still give me a fucking.
Break this is. A much juice this may be a much
juicier story. So you do with it what you will.
So when I first came out I started, you know, exploring my
sexuality as you do. You hook up with people, you
meet people. That's certainly other.
Oh yeah. I went on Hinge for the first
time in a while and I ended up talking to this girl matching
with this girl. Little did I know that she was a
little fuck boy of all of Sydney.
Now did I? Probably know her.
Then. We go to the community about
each. Other on a Sunday we had both
prior engagements on a Friday night.
I had a wedding, she had a just a night out at the pub.
Got a bit too soon. Ended up texting each other
hooking up that night. I ended up staying the night.
She sent me home in her clothes, Classic and shoes.
By the way, classic. Can we just say going home in
their clothes? It is, yeah.
I bet she has like a wardrobe full of like clothes that girls
can bring home and she's the the Sydney bike.
It's the other girls. And then cancel the date on the
Sunday saying. Just really quickly, that's
really funny you said that. Just said it's just the the
clothes that the other girls leave.
On rotation. Now, what's it called when
you're in PE and you'd have to go lost and.
Found lost property. Lost and found was it.
Lost and found was. It mine was lost property.
Yeah. Lost property.
She's got a lost property box in her house.
She's like treat yourself to anything.
I'll have that Juicy Couture track pants please.
Oh amazing, what a. Family things happening, this
sat in the other blah blah. So that was really cool for me.
I was like whatever, whatever, whatever.
Flash forward to two weeks and we go to pub night here in
Sydney Which? Is doing well.
Let's be in my nights. Hang on, that's.
The Horror Story, right? Hold on now.
Just that, that's the whole. Story A Horror Story.
The way we the. Real Horror Story is somebody
taking my dad? Oh, that's funny made.
Out with me in front of everyone at the club.
It's kind of like a bit too much kind of thing.
And then we had subsequently started seeing each other after
that for about 3 months and I knew she was seeing other people
just because of her the way she was.
And I was also like, I don't know what I'm doing.
Like this is all very new and it was just diabolical.
It was actually diabolical. I should have known, sort of
should have, could have, would have seen the red flags,
etcetera. Should have would have cut out.
Then when she decided to just see me as a friend, which is
fine, I had a little bit her shit.
So what do I do? I ended up selling.
Maybe I'm the problem. I ended up selling it on Depop
because. You don't want.
Stuff out. She was like you could take.
It to yours. Like we said, it was lost
property. Yeah, probably just add the
girls on Depop just buying their stuff, yeah.
I lost it I. Think that's fine I actually
don't see a problem with that. I think that's quite funny.
Like that's funny revenge. It's harmless.
She. Said she tried to reach out,
right? Did she?
Yeah, well she was just like fuck this girl because she
messed her around. So goodbye, sorry and our to
your stuff and I'm going to get some cash.
We. Have seen each other so it.
Hasn't. Hold on.
I hope that she used that cash to buy the flowers.
But we have seen each other almost every couple of weeks at
this Lesbian white night and also at a music festival.
She was the first person I bumped into one of the nights
that we went to the my nights. Her ex-girlfriend was there whom
she had bitched to me by about by the way, and she introduced
me to her girlfriend, her ex-girlfriend and was like hi
like this is so and so. Her ex-girlfriend literally
grabbed my arm, walked me to the back of the pub and was like
whatever you do this girl is not worth it.
And I'm not saying that as anything.
She is a user. She will like do this the other.
It's taken me 4 years to get over her.
Wow, we love a girl's girl. I love.
Her. Yeah, what a legend like.
Don't do it. Don't do it.
Run.
Take it.
Take the hoodies with you. Don't look back.
And I was like, this is like a lot.
So I really touched a bullet, but you can do with what you
will with this. But then she started trying to
egg us on and trying to be like, you guys should date each other.
You guys should date each other just.
Oh, you. Know the Rose tinted glasses
came off. So guys, you can do with that
what you will. This might be too long.
Wait, who was saying? The Sydney.
Was the Sydney bike saying you
too? Would be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh.
Well, she should have dated her, yeah.
Maybe Jesus Christ? Holy fuck.
Oh. Yeah, bad news from the get go.
This happens so often though with these like fuck boy
lesbians I can't stand them I think.
What leg do you have to stand on?
Also, like, it's just so disrespectful to women that you
claim to love, you know? I'm like, you treat them really
horribly. Toxic masculinity lesbians.
And I'm like, guys, come on. Well, you know what?
Maybe just the most upset about that, though, was the flowers.
Wasn't it? No the flowers?
That's just horrible. Can.
We circle back. No, that's killed me.
Off can you send us your address so we can send you some flowers
please? Yeah.
Because I always get really sad when I see like flowers like in
the trash can. Do you ever see that on the
street? And I'm like.
Brutal. I hate chopping away flowers.
Like even after they're dead I'm like oh this feels sad.
It feels so brutal just shoving it in the bag afterwards.
You know, you escaped. Yeah.
I'm glad you escaped. Yeah, you know what?
You dodged about it twice. Because like flower girl has
shown you her true colours. Don't.
Just please tell me you're not still talking to her because
honestly, fuck that. And then Sydney bike.
Good riddance, yeah? Goodbye, goodbye.
And Sydney bikes eggs amazing. Maybe I give it a good try.
Yeah, no, I really rate her for saying that, actually.
Yeah, I want to know who Sydney bike is.
Me too, I probably know. Yeah.
Well, I just mean because, like, the world is so small.
Yeah. If you're listening to the
podcast, you want to put your hands up and be like, hey,
that's me, Come out. Come out, come out, come out,
wherever you are. Well, I really appreciate that
and thank you so much for saying that was the sweetest message as
all of the her voice. Was so cute.
I know her voice is so nice. To this anonymous stranger.
No, I feel. And she's so beautiful too, I
think. Keeps keeps sending us your
stories. Yeah, just keep sending them in.
I actually really love listening to her voice.
It's very sweet. And and yeah, saying those
lovely things like never goes unnoticed.
So thank you. And we couldn't do it without
you guys. So big love from us.
Is there anything else that we would like to say before we
depart? I've got.
I've got nothing else to say. Any other sprinkles of advice?
No, I just hope she bought herself something nice with the
depot money. Yeah.
Some flowers, yeah. Sell more of her stuff and get
it as a flight to the UK and come hang out with us, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I didn't say that allegedly.
How do I how do I protect myself in that coming from the the past
legal. No.
Just to say, maybe you could steal it.
Throw and then maybe I'm not advising you.
To. I'm not advising you to,
however. However, if theoretically.
Yeah, if it has. Done things and then sell it and
it just so happened to end up on a website where you can get
money for it. You're doing great.
Thank you. You're doing so.
Good lesbians, we love you and we will speak to you next week.
Bye bye.