Hello lesbians. Hello lesbians.
Oh my God, guys, I don't think you even understand how excited
I am to have this guest on with us today.
She is a huge, huge reality TV star.
You might have seen it if you were one of the five that did
see it. It was called Stranded on
Honeymoon Island. Huge show.
Massive. I actually had.
To fight through paparazzi to get into the door.
Did you? Yeah, I'm not surprised.
Big, big effort to be here. I'm actually I got you here so I
can take your autograph guys. Anna Stordy, I want to introduce
you guys to have a four. She starts talking with me.
Anna is a great friend of mine and we met God.
When did we even meet now? Probably at the pub.
No, that's be real, yeah.
I think over a year and a half ago now.
Started as we meant to go on, Yeah, just over a year ago.
And I, when I met Anna, I just instantly fell in love with you.
Like I needed you as my friend immediately.
And, and I feel like I've made that happen.
So I'm getting there. Are you my friend?
Absolutely. Thank you so much.
And Anna has a really interesting story.
I think that we're both lesbians.
You're gay, right? As I'm coming out right now.
You're coming out right now. This is your coming out big.
Moment. OK, everyone listen up.
I am a homosexual. Fuck.
Wow. I see.
I knew it. I had an inkling.
I Anna, introduce yourself.
How old you. I'm joking.
Please don't say your age because then it outs me for how
old? So what?
About 3 fun facts. 3 Fun facts Do you even have three fun
facts? Yes.
Go on. Ready.
So first one is actually let's do 2 truths and a lie.
Let's do that. I'm watching you like, yeah, OK.
I'm on edge. First one is I speak in Spanish,
second one is I'm tall and beautiful and the other one is
I'm straight. But the lie is obviously that
you speak Spanish. Yeah, actually.
Gracias. Gracias como estas.
Oh God, it's so sexy that you speak Spanish.
I actually forget that you're Spanish.
I know because it's really weird because I look so Latin and
Spanish. Obviously you can't see me, but
yeah, I look very tired. Long brown hair.
Yeah, long brown hair, massive arse.
Hips are Shakira. Hips don't lie.
Yeah, and it's amazing because you sound like Princess Diana.
However, yeah, However, you are a Spaniard, which is incredible.
I have you on today, obviously to speak about some of the
things that we usually speak about over a pint, multiple,
multiple, multiple times. And now I feel like it's ready
to bring you to the mic to give it to the masses because I and
the maskers. Oh, good one.
Good one I do. And I'm ready to mask explain.
Oh. I like that I Anna with your
experience it's it's very different to mine and obviously
I know that this is audio only, but you guys also need to check
out Anna's Instagram and TikTok which I will link in the
description but. Again, massive.
Massive, huge. It's interesting because we're
both gay and these are the conversations that we have where
I look at Anna and I know that, you know, you wear your
sexuality outwardly because you are mask presenting like I
would, I would call you a soft mask, you know, but you're very
tall and you have shorter hair and you dress more masculine.
And I, I have like a very stupid little story of mine, which I
remember saying on the podcast before where I had an experience
of coming across as mask one day and it honestly the reaction.
Not stupid, not stupid. No, but the way in which I cried
because I finally actually realised just how masked
lesbians are looked at and are treated in comparison to how I
walk through the world. And we have similar struggles
and struggles and also like success and the fact that we are
both gay women. However, my experience is
different to yours and I feel like it's something that I can't
talk about on the podcast. I can talk about it, but not
from like relating to me. So I wanted to ask you kind of
how you have dealt with that. But we can go right from the
beginning. Like what was your your gay
awakening? Yes, I also want to get onto
like privileges that I have as a mask lesbian because I think you
and I always talk about that and I don't really see that in in
the space either. But yeah, in terms of a bit of
an intro, a bit of a back story, I have always been gay.
I have loads of memories of like fancying my best friends,
teachers at summer camps, all of that but.
Did you do anything in the summer camps?
Be real. Apart from fantasize, no.
Was there like kissing? Or I was a hardcore Justin
Bieber fan. Okay, that checks.
Out. Yeah.
To the point where I went to his concert and wasn't chosen as one
of the one little early girls and cried on my mummy's lap for
two hours. Yeah.
Saying to her mummy, yeah, I actually.
I'm still calling mummy. Yeah, no, I used to.
OK, OK, good. She's about to be an
intervention. As mummy, she's not.
My dad is not saved as daddy. Anyway, I was on her lap and I
was crying my eyes out and I was like, for me, he's everything
and for him I'm a dot in the crowd.
And then she was really surprised when I came out two
years later, four years later, four years later.
So this is when you were 25? Yeah.
So you basically, you probably just wanted to beat him, let's
be real. No 100% and I dress like him
now. Yeah, you are cosplaying
genuinely, but it's funny that there is.
What is that connection between Justin Bieber and lesbians?
Is it because it was the safe option?
Like the safe option for a boy that they fancy and get obsessed
with because he was so feminine? It was like the Leonardo
DiCaprio. Exactly.
I think as he was feminine at the beginning, he looked a bit
gay when he was a teen, and now everyone wants to look like him.
If you're kind of a mass presenting, that's because he's
so cool. Yeah.
And I think he's also married to a very beautiful woman, which
everyone's probably jealous of. Oh my gosh, she wants to
manifest so beautiful. But yeah, I came out when I was
16. How did that go?
Probably one of the most iconic coming out stories you've
probably ever gonna hear on this podcast, and it's very
revealing, but I'm gonna go for it.
I my friends threw me a surprise birthday party when I was 16.
I had cut all my hair off 2 months before.
Yeah, because and you can can't you can get rid of this if it's
too much. But energy generous.
Yeah was my idol. Ohh.
Listen, I know it's very controversial, especially today,
right now. I'm not going to say what.
I am. Oh, this is staying in.
Yeah, this is staying in. This is so.
Also sorry to side note, I have my brain just all over the
place. When we first met I went to the
Halloween version of the LSC pub night dressed as Ellen DeGeneres
and you were one of the only people that found it funny.
And then I realised, OK, we're going to be friends because she
gets my. Humour that's so funny.
But I did have girls that were like what the hell.
Which I do understand, but anyway.
Come on, have a laugh. Do you know what I mean?
I also used to love Ellen like I used to love The Ellen Show,
like all the dancing, and I was all about it.
And I grew up in Madrid in a very kind of like very
conservative part of Madrid. Madrid obviously is open minded,
but I lived in quite a right wing conservative part where I
didn't have any sort of example. None of my friends had gay
parents, no. Gay friends No.
Representation. You went to a Catholic school,
right? I did.
I did eventually as well. So nothing really around me to
show me that being gay was even an option.
And then I would go home and I would watch Ellen on YouTube and
it would be like my hour of like, OK, that's OK.
And you know, so that's why she was my idol.
It makes sense because she was the only one.
It wasn't like you had other things to look up to.
Yeah, you. Know, and even now, I mean, we
have like you, we have this podcast, we have the amazing
events you run. We have so much online.
We didn't have that 10 years ago, but yeah, so I cut all my
hair off. It's kind of looked like her.
Yeah. Did you wear like the suits that
she used to wear and. Probably, probably.
I danced like her. It's so embarrassing.
I need reference photos. I need reference photos.
Now I can. Probably find them, actually.
And then my friends threw me a surprise birthday for my 16th.
It was the first time I'd ever drunk alcohol.
Nice. God mine was like 14.
You were doing better than me. And I got really, really drunk.
My mum ended up having to come and rescue me from the party.
It was very embarrassing and actually came out when I was
drunk to her and my dad, so I don't actually fully remember
it. All I remember is turning to
them and saying I'm gay. And it was the first time I'd
ever said those words. It was obviously like my body.
Your body had to. Release it.
I don't. I've been thinking it for the
past year because I fell in love with one of my best friends, who
now we're still friends actually, and she walked me
through everything and she's an amazing woman.
So that was a baptism of fire because I woke up the next day
and then remembered what had happened.
But at least I got it out, because who knows how long I
would have kept it inside if I hadn't got it out that way.
And it starts to become like poison in your body.
The more you keep it in, the bigger and bigger and bigger it
gets. So kind of thank fuck you got
wasted without yourself to your parents.
Exactly. That is really interesting.
I actually didn't know this about you so.
And then obviously continued being gay.
Wait, just really quickly, how did your parents actually react
to that then? So in the morning, what was
their reaction to this? I think because we didn't have a
lot of representation around us, the next couple of years, sort
of one to two years were a little bit difficult in terms of
understanding what my future looked like.
It sounds mad saying it now, because future for a gay person
is quite clear now. We have same rights, we can get
married, we can have children. Back then that really, really
wasn't clear. I mean, in many countries it
wasn't legal. I think it wasn't legal to get
married. In it wasn't even.
It wasn't legal over here. Exactly.
So it was just, I can't describe how different, different it was.
And it took a lot of kind of conversations.
And I think it wasn't until I learnt that my parents are also
people living for the first time, judging from their
upbringings and their environments themselves, and
sort of relaxed with my expectation.
Then we began to understand each other.
And then when I had my first girlfriend, that's when they
really began to understand that everything was going to be OK.
I was 20. Yeah.
So loser. Yeah.
Quite late actually. I've had many since.
No, actually, I'm kidding about that.
One, you've actually got a new girlfriend every week.
Every time I see you like another one.
Yeah. You can't keep up.
It's every time. No, it's funny.
That's actually quite respectful.
I really wish I was more like that when I was younger.
I wish that the first time I got drunk was at my 16th birthday
party. But actually, to combat that, my
first ever lesbian kiss was at my 16th birthday party.
Oh well, there you. Go Everything seems to happen
around the Sweet 16. It's a good mark.
Exactly. But yeah, and then when I met my
first girlfriend, and then she began to go on with my parents,
everything became easier. I think parents just worry about
their kids being happy, and if you can't see a route for them
being happy and not having a hard life, then it's hard to
accept. But now I think it's easier
because there's much more representation, not just for us
but also for parents. That 100% that's why I always
say to people that are saying that they're struggling coming
out and like give them this podcast to listen to as well.
It's not just for the lesbians. It's like an actual, like, it's
a little insight into how we live.
And it is a cult, yeah. Yeah, you do sign Ndas.
We sign Ndas, blood on the line, but it is is different.
Like the lived experience is so different for a queer woman, a
queer person, than it is for a straight person.
We do just have a different experience of life because
everything is different. We have to come out pretty much
every day and, you know, we have to go through so many different
ebbs and flows of acceptance. And then suddenly you get this
hate and you're like, hold on a minute, you know, and you kind
of carry that. And so your, you had your
girlfriend and your parents started to become more
accepting. And I've seen older photos of
you where you didn't look as masculine.
And did you ever feel like you were treated differently then
because you were like an adult at this point?
You know where you treated differently then to how you are
treated now, you say. I think it's so interesting
because I came out 10 years ago and I would say I'm my happiest
this year. So I think although that might
sound quite scary for listeners that haven't come out yet, it's
actually should be comforting because it shows that you will
eventually get there and it's kind of come together with this
year. I dress my most sort of
masculine and feel my most myself so that's kind of come
together also I think growing up I imagine the same for you.
Just takes time to find your style.
Oh my God, it takes so long to figure out like who you kind of
how you want to portray yourself as a mirror of your inner
person. And it is an important thing, is
that self-expression is obviously very important
actually within the queer community because we have
different stereotypes within our own already very niche small
bubble of us. Yeah, there's so many different
stereotypes. You know, you don't only have
the fems. You've got like the black cat
fems. You've got the one of my, I'm
the golden retriever fem or something.
The fuck? I don't know.
I think you're definitely black cat fem.
Do you look at it? Which is a positive thing, a
strong personality. I tend to go for black cat fems.
That's like my. True, you do have blonde hair,
but like the personality wise, strong personalities.
Oh, thank you very much. Right now.
I'm not like a I'm not like an alley cat fem.
Yes, scrapping in the yes exactly.
Exactly. And but we have so many, like I
don't even know how many terminologies there are anymore.
Like too many. Yeah, I've given up account, but
I'm just gonna leave it to like the fems and the masks.
And obviously you then finding your style and knowing that
there is more masculine. I would say in terms of like
energy though, it's always a different thing.
Like with your energy is very feminine to me.
Like I would say that you have more of a feminine energy than I
do. Yeah.
No, definitely. And I think what I just said,
I'm my happiest this year. It's when I see to your question
a few questions earlier where you were saying how you treated
differently. I would say for mass presenting
lesbians or for me it's been I probably get misgendered like
once a day. Once.
Really. So actually should have said
pronouns. Is she her?
Yeah, at the beginning. So I identify as a woman.
Very happy identifying that way. Very proud of being a woman.
But I think as I've gotten more confident, cut my head shorter
and shorter, worn sort of men's clothes, and felt more confident
in my sexuality, it's made society question my gender and
at times made me question my gender.
But what I've been grappling with is actually, we just need
more women to be confident in dressing however they want to
dress, regardless of whether that means they identify.
And that's not to say that it's unbelievably valid for for
someone like me to say they identify as non binary or or or
whatever. But me personally, I think
finding confidence in in that has been like really important.
And owning being a woman while stressing more masculine, I
mean, because androgyny exists, you know?
And I do think that this isn't obviously the case for so many
people. And I am all for trans rights,
of course, and I think people who are non binary, again,
completely valid. But I do wonder if there's like
a small portion that might just think I can't be a woman and
also dressed this way, you know, because I think as women anyway,
we're always, we've got such a high expectation, right?
Women are supposed to be the sexiest, the most beautiful,
this that, the other, the standards are so ridiculously
high that I do think that if anybody feels that they don't
match that, they then feel like, well, it's actually going to be
less pressure for me to not even label myself as a woman.
And so it actually all stems from societal fucking bullshit
of like how women are treated and misogyny, right?
So everything is rooted in misogyny.
At the end of the day. Anything bad just swings right
back down to misogyny. I'm so fucking sick of it.
But like, I also love the fact that yes, you know, you're,
you're like, well, no, I, I am a woman, but I dress more
masculine. I have shorter hair.
Doesn't help. You're like 6 foot.
Five No, no, no. And also like very muscly and
strong and fit because I gym a lot.
Joe, what you are actually. Non.
Ironically, muscly and fit like I don't know what has happened.
To you my laugh. How feminine is my laugh?
No, you're like no, obviously that is an ick.
You have to cut that out. No, we're not I I yeah, you're
you are fit. You are must be at all and
obviously that now for people just by maybe seeing you for
like a split second exactly do they say like he or.
Same or so often if I'm ordering coffee or like ordering in a
restaurant. But it's all the split second
and then what happens is they'll see my face, realise they've
made a mistake and apologise and then suddenly the pressure is on
me to make them feel better. It's not though.
That's the only kind of tricky, tricky moment.
And there are some days where I quite like it because I quite
like looking different in like a way of like, OK, I'm special.
Other days where I really feel calm and actually I go, it's not
their fault. I'm wearing a hoodie, a hat, I'm
6 foot tall, my head shaves. Like, you know, got to
understand. And there are other days, like
for example, the other day I was coming home from the gym
obviously, and I was thinking about this whenever I go into
the gym, I don't know if I told you this, if I'm wearing a hat
or a hoodie, because obviously it's the winter.
As I step into reception, I'll take my hat off and and I put my
hoodie down and take my jacket off because I know when I walk
into the changing room if I'm showing as much body as possible
AK in my chest for example, like if.
You can take my T. Shirt.
Not that I have massive boobs or anything.
You actually just take off your top and you've got a push up
brow on. Mini skirt.
Mini skirt to push up bra. No, genuinely, that hoodie.
I know that if I'm showing as much body as possible I will get
less looks. If I walk in not doing that then
I get at least literally 6 or 7 double takes And I And I'm not
blaming them because if a man walked into the changing room
from a safety perspective you'd be alarmed.
But my question is where am I supposed to go?
Like I can't walk into the men's changing room because they'll
see my chest. But the difference is you're not
a threat, though. And that that is the main thing.
Right. And you are a woman.
Like you're not a threat. It's all OK.
It's like, I think it's. Yeah.
That's another added thing of something that you've got to
think about because I suppose I never, I never think about that.
Do I always feel like a pervert in a change of room?
Yeah. Do I do I sweat a little bit?
Yes, I do. I that's another.
Point that I've got, I've got another point on your pervert.
I validate the your perversion. Thank you.
Who's that word? Yes, 'cause everything is valid
and and peace and love and everyone's OK and valid.
However, I was changed in the change room, right and I've been
going to the women's changing rooms my whole life.
Never once have I seen a woman getting changed and sexualised
her. Yeah, like.
Just it's just no, no, no, I actually haven't.
No, no, it's really quickly. I'm like, no, I.
Haven't. Not saying that you would.
Have I looked to the floor? This is my exactly exactly.
We all look. I think all lesbians are
actually lesbians. All lesbians.
Are your masks? Fame or a little bit of a freak,
which they do exist. Actually, they do.
You look down. Mm.
Hmm. Whereas men, when women walk
into an office wearing a tight blouse, they go.
That's distracting. Insane, but we have.
You and I as lesbians have the same sexual desires for women
than a man, so why are we able to like, control ourselves even
though that's the wrong word? Yeah, but yeah, because they,
they say they can't control themselves.
It's fucking bullshit. That's exactly why.
Because they've been given every excuse under the sun.
Exactly. The thing is, is that we
shouldn't have to look down in the change rooms.
Like we should be able to just like, not obviously be like,
hello, tips, but like just look around like a normal woman.
But it's more of the inner thing with me where I'm like, I know
I'm gay. So I feel really guilty right
now. Yeah.
Even seeming to be looking at you just in case you might
slightly be objectified or feel objectified or whatever that it
is. Like it just goes through my
head. Because straight women, not just
to master, also femmes, think that if you're not all straight
women, but many think when they meet a gay woman that they're
immediately going to like them, they're immediately going to
want to snog them. They always think that so and
they literally are so fugly. The ones that think that are so
butt ugly. And I'm like, do you not see the
girls that I get with you think I wanna get with you?
Because I'm fine actually. But I'm actually alright.
Yeah. Be like, you've literally got
the worst split ends I've ever seen.
Yeah. Bad teeth.
Yeah. First off, yeah.
Nah, I'm over it. I'm over it.
I'm fucking. That was the same with girls at
school. But do you fancy me?
And I'll be like, do I fuck? No, exactly.
Look at you. Exactly.
Rather Justin Bieber. Actually, I'd rather Justin
Bieber rather lick Justin Bieber out, thank you so much.
Yes, yes, actually. But with but with the changing
rooms and with the bathroom. So have you ever had any issues
where women have been funny? I have a really funny story
actually. Go on, hit me.
So I was skiing in the French Alps.
I can also ski another USP of mine.
Yeah, I love this. No, you could ski.
Do you not? No.
I talk about it all the time. It's like I of course.
She could. I mean, listen to her, Of course
she can ski. She's got that accent as she
grew up in Madrid. Of course she can see.
I'm pretty sure I've shown videos at the pubs you know
after a couple of pints. Showing off well.
Well, I've been missing out on this, sorry.
I'll get them out. Listen, yeah.
But so I was skiing and bait, obviously I was wearing a hoodie
and a hat because the ski resorts who were in a club and I
walked into the women's changing room and the bouncer, literally.
So what I can only describe was like a fishing rod fished onto
like latched onto my hoodie and he yanked me out.
I I flew shut the fuck up and it was a big bouncer because he
thought I was a bloke in a club at 2:00 in the morning walking
into the loos. I completely understand why he
would have done that. He did then see my face and he
did then buy me a drink. It's just so brutal for you.
Though, But it's brutal and it's obviously visually it's quite
funny. We need to get you a hoodie that
says I'm a lesbian for from the back.
Yeah, please let me embroid every hoodie of yours what
people say to. Me is like maybe like don't wear
hoodies in dark environments so I do understand.
That don't look like you're about to kill someone.
But it was cold. Yeah, in the club in.
The club, but I think yeah, like a lot of my maths friends have,
it's a very universal experience.
The main thing is having to take a hat off if you're walking into
a loo because I mean, getting machine to buy a coffee or
ordering food is fine. It's more people thinking you're
a threat. I think that's what feels quite
difficult because we as gay women mascot firm, you spend
your your adult life relearning that you are natural and not
scary and beautiful normal. So I think in those many moments
where you're made to feel like a threat, everything can kind of
rush back. Yeah.
How do you feel? Like how does that genuinely
what is your like knee jerk emotional reaction to that
happening? I think speaking really open and
honestly, I've really struggled with my with accepting my
sexuality, not because of my family.
My mum and dad could not be. They're fantastic allies.
I mean, like they're really, they're all over my social
media. I talk to them every day.
I talk to them about every time. I'm heartbroken.
I my mum is the first person I call.
Mummy. My yeah, yes, actually, yes.
Add a few more tears. My brother's the same, like he's
unbelievable. Cloda, his his wife is the same.
But it's more like, because I grew up with no representation,
I think I absorbed an enormous amount of internalized
homophobia and I was also quite viciously bullied at school for
like a year or so for being gay. So I.
Think. Really.
Even though I've done. Was this before?
Sorry, was this before you were out or was it?
After. After Yeah.
What? What would happen to you at
school if you don't mind talking?
So when I was at that Catholic school, I told a girl that I
liked her, expecting her to react normally, but because we
were all young and didn't understand what any of that
meant, she got really freaked out and within a day I lost all
of my friends. Literally everyone turned
against me. It sounds dramatic, but it's
genuinely true. I mean, well, that is dramatic.
Yeah, yeah. And I made friends in the year
below and the year above, but like the friends that I had
close to me just dropped me. I suddenly had no one to eat
meals with and that. That is that in boarding school
just really quickly, yes. So that's stuck there.
To add to my unbearable visual of skis, speak Spanish.
Also went to boarding school but I did get bullied so that's you
can't. We've got Judge Me for that
exactly. We've got some characters.
Development. And it was actually in that year
that I got really close to my parents again because they were
so helped, they were so kind of with me, and it was obviously a
Catholic school. What were they doing in terms of
bullying? So people threw food at me.
So. So these girls were friends with
very popular boys. They'd ring me at night.
I had I had short hair, so they'd walk up to me and call me
the names of the boys that looked like me.
All these things are small, but they're so imprinted.
They were threatened because you're way better than them.
And I think now it's almost like cool to be gay back then, like
now. And I'm sure people of course
look at bullied at school, obviously, but I think back then
it was just like, and because it was a Catholic school, nobody
wanted to use the word homophobia.
None of the teachers wanted to really use it.
In the end, people did help me and everything got resolved.
But I think from experiences like that, I still even today,
carry a lot of internalized homophobia.
And I think I moved to Notting Hill two years ago.
Praise be praise, praise be the Lord, praise be the cock and
bottle. And I remember, I remember
saying this to you a few days ago.
I said, I remember being on TikTok and seeing a video of you
and like a few of your friends. And you were like so openly, so
happily gay and like, and I'm looking at video and going like,
I'm never going to be that happy in myself, have friends.
And then within that past year and a half, I finally joined a
few queer groups and made friends, and it's really helped.
Nice and my queer group. Thank you very much and let's no
but. No, but I you're, you're a very
welcome addition. Yeah, we needed to up our roster
a little bit with a mask. But it's like I was, I was
saying to you, if I'd had a podcast like this to listen to
in those nights where I was being bullied or where I knew I
was gay, but I hadn't come out yet.
And you literally feel like A, you don't understand what's
going on because your hormones are all over the place.
B, You don't feel like it's OK. C, you can't tell anyone.
D, you have no one that looks like you and is happy.
If I'd had your podcast, I think I would have been a lot, lot
happier. And genuinely, jokes aside, like
club nights, wine nights, just hanging out with you and and
like Liv and and Annabelle and and other lesbians.
By the way, Liv and Annabelle are in the room.
Those are the two mentioned names.
It's it's life changing. It is it's life.
Changing, well, I think I definitely, yeah, really
struggle for those same reasons as well.
But I think that my experience in general.
So I maybe I am a bit of a black cat because when my sexuality is
outward to the public, IE when I'm with a girl, is the only
time when my sexuality is prevalent, right?
Other than that I'm walking down the road, no one knows that I'm
gay, although I do have swag. Yeah, I got swag.
Yeah, only gay people have swag. Swagger.
Yeah. And so I do walk like a
gangster. Sometimes.
I watch myself back and I'm like, why the fuck am I walking?
Like, who told me to walk? Clearly no one.
Like literally, I don't know why I walk the way that I do.
Do you walk? Fast or slow, I can't.
I can't visualize it. Fast yeah, yeah, with, with a
coffee and. Ziggy.
And Ziggy, yeah, but yeah, unless I'm with a girl.
So because me walking around with a girl happens less than me
walking alone or with my friends, whatever that is, or,
or outwardly, obviously with a girl that's in like a
relationship sense. When I then get people talk
about my sexuality, I am libid. Like I am ready to fight and
you've seen me fight. Yeah, fight Physically I will.
Yell. I will.
Unfortunately, you when we do arm wrestles, you do tend to
win. Yeah, well, that is coming.
This has to go on Instagram please.
No, no. Yeah, please let.
Me run the street cred. Yeah.
I Yeah. What street cred?
I have no problem. If a man is hitting a woman, I'm
hitting him back. I'm so sorry.
I hate to break it to you guys. I'm hitting him back and I have
done it. I've got a taste for it now,
though. The only problem, but also when
men are taking photos, they're yelling out their car.
They're saying which you've had you've had that fuck you, fuck
you, fuck you, fuck you. I've had all of these things
right, and I'm gonna interrupt your freedom.
They do and I'm fighting and then I think, Oh my fucking God,
the way in which I will one burst an ovary and have an
aneurysm If I was a mask lesbian, because if I had to
deal with it every day, I genuinely but but I I it'd be
awful. It'd be so bad.
I disagree. I think you'd be perfectly
equipped for it. And I think you, your, your
confidence is no, but it's infectious.
Yes, but it's not nice is what I'm saying.
What I hate is how, and This is why I get annoyed for you and
for other, you know, mass presenting lesbians that are
listening or mass presenting people that are listening to
this podcast is that this is unfair.
Let's just call it what it is. It is unfair to make so many
assumptions about people that you don't know and judgements
people as humans, we naturally make judgements.
I think isn't it within the 1st 8 seconds that you meet someone,
you make a judgement. But to think that you have a say
into somebody else's sexuality. Exactly.
And I think that they deem mask lesbians as the weaker.
I don't mean this in the way that you are weaker, but I mean
in the way that I do believe that they feel like you are the
easier target. Yes, because it is the more
stereotype of the lesbian. It is something that they've
been taught was wrong, which is so fucking stupid.
You and I are the same. We are both gay women.
The only difference is you have short hair and you wear more
masks and clothing. That is literally the only thing
that is different, right? But I think that obviously I am
more palatable to them, and this is what makes it so fucked up.
So you'll accept me more because I look more to the standard of
what you believe a woman should look like?
Yeah. So fuck yourself.
And I think on that, that kind of goes back to what I said
about me having privilege. But I'll just say one one thing
which might be useful. You go for it.
Speaking about growing up with internalized homophobia, I so
lucky I have access to regular therapy.
It's changed my if if I hadn't done a therapy, I wouldn't have
been able to be confident enough to join queer groups, to go to
LSC nights, to meet you, etcetera, and to be myself in
those environments. But every time I'm misgendered
or something like that happens, depending on how I'm feeling, it
can bring those feelings back. But I think what I've worked out
over the past couple of weeks is that just because I feel that
again, doesn't mean I haven't made the progress I've made over
the past decade. I feel feel like we have kind of
muscle memory in our brains. Oh, we do trauma and pain, but
refilling it doesn't mean that you're back where you used to
be. So that kind of gives me a lot
of a lot of comfort. But what I was going to say in
terms of how I have privilege and it all goes back to how,
like, really, the patriarchy and the male gaze controls
everything. Unfortunately, yeah, I get
misgendered. Yes.
Perhaps people don't think or know you're gay immediately.
However, I haven't been cat called or inappropriately
flirted with by a man in a bar for years.
Pick. Your poison.
Exactly so. And I, I'm so like, I've got
lots of wonderful femme lesbian friends who like have to deal
with being sexualised by men and then have to deal with rejecting
them because they're gay or because, you know, even if they
weren't gay, why, why should they entertain?
Them still having to explain yourself, like how you have to
explain yourself exactly, yeah. People I haven't really seen
that be talked about. And that's again, another kind
of, to your point of like, oh, you look like the kind of woman
I'd want to sleep with. Why it's not fair that you're
gay kind of makes them angry. So that's kind of the privilege
that I have. I can also walk home.
I hope no one like my parents don't listen to this.
They'll tell me off. I can head home at night.
Me and daddy don't listen. Mummy and Daddy turn it off now,
darling, I'll. Send you my Uber receipt later.
Please say it. Yeah, exactly.
That's, you know, genuine perks if you think about it that way.
That is a genuine perk. Obviously men are much more
respected in society. And yes, and if they're going to
sexualize a woman, then regardless of either way, I
mean, to be fair, it still happens at mask lesbians.
I've heard it quite a few times where they've been sexualized.
Yes, of course, by men. And I'm like, are you gay?
Like why are you specializing like in this way?
To be fair, no, that's to do with gay men.
How I told you that when I go to gay class.
I think you're a twink. A lot of men approached me
thinking I'm a twink and because it's been a while since I've
felt love not to get, you know, I do consider it sometimes, you
know, because listen, it's at the end of the day, it's still
contact. You're like, just please hold
me. So there was a time at Dalton
Superstore. Horrific place.
I don't know. Whenever I'm there, I'm like,
why am I there? I might go, might be there on
Thursday. So, yeah, so you're in Dalton.
Yes, Dalton Superstore. To very different experience to
me. I've weirdly though had gay men
grope me as well. EW, I know.
Don't. No one should grope anyone.
That's what I'm saying. Can we all just stop?
Groping. No, I mean yes.
More groping. More groping, please.
Advocating for toxic masks everywhere.
Really hot. They're just fucking go for it
now. I'm joking.
Oh my God, No, I I think that
yeah, gay men. I mean, they fucking love it and
they love mask looking Les. They love it as well.
Apparently they like them pegging them.
Interesting fact. Have you tried it?
I mean, to what I was saying earlier.
It's been a while, so nothing's off the table, but he approached
me. This man shimmies across.
It's very sweaty in the bottom part of Super Dolson Superstore.
All the gay men are topless. It's it's a certain environment.
And he approaches. Me.
Yeah. Oh.
He approaches me and he goes, hi, you're absolutely gorgeous.
I'm thinking great, like I haven't heard that in a long
time, lapping it up. And he goes, what's your name?
And I almost said Adam, just to see what would happen, but I
said Anna. And then he just turned around
and walked off. But he would have stalked me if
I said I. Don't, darling.
I think the voice was a dead giveaway.
It's either that or you're like a 14.
Well, maybe because you're that just grew fast because.
You're like, I mean kind of also twinks have kind of high pitched
voices. Not.
Not like a female. Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know. I don't.
Know maybe or maybe or maybe he. Hasn't written in the stars.
No, no, I can do better than that.
I I. Think you can?
Yeah. I'm looking at you like you can.
Please please please don't do it.
Support anything you do. Yeah, it's not that.
Not that. No, no.
No, no hate crime. Hate crime if you do that.
OK. Homophobic.
Yeah. Like that's so gay that it's
homophobic. Yeah.
You're a lesbian. He's a gay man.
That's like way too queer. Way too queer.
It's homophobic. Yeah.
So you bringing it back as well
to your your your girlfriend that you had, how does it make
you feel that she's with a man now?
Like I did a really good job. Like, I really was good in bed.
I satisfied her enough. And yeah.
She was bisexual. The only great thing is she's
never going to be an LFC event, is she?
Well. No, not unless that ends and
then she has a full. Although she was pan or
something so maybe. But but I mean the whole pan
thing is fun until you're actually with a bloke.
But you, your relationship, and this is some of the first
conversations that you and I had and you won me over instantly
with it. You are so funny, Anna.
I've been begging. It comes from.
Depression. Comes from trauma and.
Depression, yes, and wanting to kill yourself, yes, but they're
not doing it. But they're not doing it and
then forming a stand up career and getting loads of money.
That hasn't happened yet. But it might and that's what we
hold on to. But I the way that you deliver
things is just so fucking funny. And I remember you talking about
how you one try to cheat, which is one of the funniest things
I've actually ever heard. Can you please relay the story?
Twice. Not into great detail because
this is so funny to me. I honestly it tickles me every
time I think about it. If I'm ever sad, I think about
this. So I think back to the point of
like what people think. People think masks are scary,
they think toxic. They're toxic.
They're players. And they are.
And they can be. I wasn't blessed with that
ability. No, they're definitely not that
Is this. I tend to just scream I love you
at women too early and show my anxious attachment style and
they run away. But no, so I'd towards the end
of the relationship I did try and cheat twice.
It's the try to cheat. I tried so.
Me is so funny. And on both occasions failed so.
See now if I had a girlfriend and she tried to cheat not only
once but twice, that is giving me the egg that is straight up
that is worse than cheating because then I'm like, oh I'm
I'm with this, I think. They don't even want I think.
Even wanna she tried, the intention was there.
She didn't even succeed. It's worse than cheating.
Them reject them rejecting me probably gave them the ick about
me I think because I was so not but.
You were trying, you were trying to get out this relationship.
And obviously, let me, let me preface this by saying that
obviously when we're in young relationships, we don't really
know how to navigate things very well.
I, I've outed myself for cheating in past relationships.
It happens. OK, Well, not my latest one by
the way, but I have advocated for, advocated for the cheaters.
No, I've said that obviously that when you when you're young
and you're figuring it out and relationships are not easy even
for like full blown adults have years and years of experience,
let alone people whose prefrontal lobe has not fucking
developed context, whatever the hell it is.
Like it's not developed and you're just trying to figure out
what the fuck to do. And that is fair enough that you
did that. It's just really funny that you
got rejected. And I think as well not to get
deep again that that relationship because I had such
a hard time when I came out in my head, it really gave me
identity and being gay. And she, I mean, unfortunately,
we're not in each other's lives anymore.
I would, I would love to be. But again, she doesn't want to
be another embarrassing fact. But.
No, that's not embarrassing. Some people can't hack it.
Yeah, exactly. She without her, I wouldn't be
who I am today because she helped me love myself to the
point where I suddenly was confident enough to want to be a
gay woman on my own. So it's that weird kind of irony
with in queer relationships where you can complete each
other and you get to a point where I think as a queer person
that you have to experience life on your own.
You cannot tie your identity to being in a relationship.
So many of us do, which is beautiful, but I but.
You can't. You can't.
We are individuals at the end of the day.
I would almost say everyone should have periods of being
single but especially queer people because you need to find
that self love from good luck and.
Lesbians. Jesus Christ.
But I think that's why people are you all.
That's why people are in relationships for 15 years and
then stop having sex, but then can't leave each other.
I've obviously just don't know. I've simplified it a lot.
It's obviously more complicated. I think that's why the bond is
so intense, because it's like, oh, that person gives me
identity and because of that person I'm correct.
And it's a shared thing, right? I think there is almost this
weird natural trauma bond with queer people in relationships
because we've got that shared thing that so many millions of
people on this earth despise. Exactly.
And we are unified within that. And you found someone that,
like, you're attracted to who is nice to you or like, whatever it
might be. And obviously, I think this
probably happened a lot more when the dating pool was a lot,
lot smaller. But you are then unified in
that. And there is that shared thing.
And it might not be love. It might just be the fact that
you're going through the fucking trenches together.
Because honestly, the world, as much as reputation has
increased, the hate is still there.
What? The only thing that's helping us
is not acceptance from anywhere else because we're not really
getting much of it. It it's the unifying act.
Of more queer people coming out, expressing themselves, putting
themselves on bigger platforms and not, I mean, but just so
many people now, which is which is incredible and creating more
spaces and having that's that people feel safe because we
wouldn't need those safe spaces if the world was more
progressive. It isn't.
We are just louder and we have more platforms to put ourselves
on. TV still aren't really showing
us, if you think about it, that we had heated rivalry, which is
great for gay men. Yeah, but again, it's gay men.
Yeah, exactly. And we had the Hunting Wives,
but it was more. Of a but the storyline was.
Horrific. It's just taboo lesbian.
It's not. No, no, I don't want to use the
word lesbian. It's just taboo women on women,
basically like a bit of porn, like, yeah, yeah.
Well, shooting. It's so for men.
It's like guns, guns, guns. You know, I have a story about
that actually. Not to change subject, no, but
remember normal people. Have you watched with Paul
Mezcal and that amazing female actress?
I haven't seen it I. Don't know if they watched it,
but like I remember watching it and it was groundbreaking
because of the sex scenes. Like they were really like
beautiful but like reveal and what's the word explicit sex
scenes. And it was like groundbreaking I
remember and everyone fell in love with it and not because of
the sex scenes but just everything.
And I remember, I would think I must have been like, 19 or 18 or
so. I can't remember.
But back to how my family is so brilliant.
I, like, watched it all in one go and then couldn't stop
crying. And I went into my brother's
room and it's a really, like, important moment.
And I just couldn't stop crying. And I was like, Kieran, like,
everyone loves that show. I love that show.
But I don't want to have sex like that.
I want to have sex in a different way.
But I don't know how. I don't know what it looks like.
And my brother works in television.
And even back then, he was really passionate about being in
that space and he just talked me through it and was with me and
kind of explained everything would be OK.
But like you and I were saying, oh, because we have lesbian
friends, we in our in our circle, everything's OK.
But for someone like how I used to be when I was 18.
Which is the majority of people? Having access to media is like
life changing, yeah. Because it makes you feel
normal. Yeah, no hate on Paul Mescal.
I also kind of widely fancy him. Penis because I think it's.
Because of his chain, but yeah. No, I, I think that that that's
heartbreaking. First of all, it is.
And I remember feeling that way, but more so not so about sex,
more so in the love sense. Like when I'd see like, I would
always like cry at things like the notebook and things like
that, because like love is love is love.
And I'm such an emotional person, but still these women
talking about their marriages and they've got their husbands
inside. And it just didn't do anything
for me. And I thought that there was
just something intrinsically wrong with the way in which I
couldn't get it. Like the girls would talk about
their boyfriends at school. I couldn't understand why they
wanted to stay over. Like I was so confused genuinely
and without any kind of rationale as to why you then
just go, I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
And and imagine that you are telling yourself that every
single day, kind of pushing it right back to when you said
before that you still get those triggers or those moments.
Healing is never linear, ever. You will have those moments
where you'll feel like, oh fucking hell, I am such an out
and proud lesbian woman. What I I know it's coming out
again. 2 coming outs in one episode.
I'm out and proud lesbian woman. There are sometimes where I feel
bad for telling a man that I am gay because I fear that I have
led him on because of my flirty personality.
I say flirty personality. It's just kind of who I am.
It's warm and friendly and like I'm flirty, I'm charming or
whatever. I feel bad when he then will
suggest a drink or my Instagram handle or whatever it is or my
number and I've got to break the news to him as if I'm like
killing his first born that I am gay and it makes me feel like an
imposter. But I'm like no, I know I'm gay.
I like and I and I find it really, really difficult to
sometimes put myself in that space because the awkward people
please run me then takes over. And that then pisses me off
because I was like, oh, why was I so outward lead?
Like, you know, and I get annoyed at myself and I went
through so much internalized homophobia when I was growing up
to the point where I just wanted to run away entirely.
Like I didn't want to be associated with anyone.
I didn't want anyone to be associated with me because I
didn't want them to, one, know that I was gay and two, let them
down. And three, make them associated
to me as a gay person. And to have come all of that way
now where if I can't, if I suddenly became straight, I
would do all the above. I'm off somewhere you will never
find me. But it's it's really funny how
that thing just suddenly goes. I was going to ask.
You in your head what? And what has because obviously
people look at your socials, they listen to the podcast, you
are incredibly confident and you inspire others to be, but that
won't have been your entire like what?
What was the turning point? What when you wake up, what
makes you confident? Well, I think going back to what
we were saying before about, you know, when you said about your
ex-girlfriend make you feel comfortable in your sexuality
and then she kind of like fed you to the to the wild, like
released you like, you know, it's like they raised them.
They're like free. I was very much like that with
my first girlfriend. She made me feel better about my
sexuality and I kind of feel bad because then I became number one
lesbian after the breakup, which is all she ever really wanted.
So that's actually really mean. That's a cunt move from me.
Whatever. Sorry, Natalia.
But I then just started surrounding myself with more and
more and more queer people and having more relationships and
then more stuff coming out online and watching it and and
finding that and then the biggest turn of me really
accepting it. And I definitely accepted it
before the podcast, but was probably 1, being with Scarlett,
who was such a powerhouse and had already a group of lesbian
friends and we created more lesbian friends together.
I was like, fuck yeah, I fucking love this shit.
I'm so gay. I love it, I love it, I love it.
And then the Tik Toks and then the Tik Toks, which then burst
out the podcast. So by the time that we did the
podcast, then I was like, OK, I feel really fucking good now.
But even throughout that, it's been a journey.
I feel better and better as time goes on.
And This is why I was saying it to you as well, that you own a
power in something when you take control, like when you just take
that full control of that thing. And that is releasing the power
of your mind that it has over it.
You speak these words into existence.
And especially even if it's on a platform, whether you got hate,
whether you got whatever the fuck, it doesn't matter.
It's being able to know. And I think that for me to know
that I'm helping people that were in a situation like me or
maybe even worse or are in my situation now.
But it's nice to hear it. You know, I think for me, that
really further solidified that. And you won't have that thing
that's going on and on and on in your brain that is telling you
that it's wrong. And so, yeah, I don't know.
I feel like practice makes perfect.
And also fake it to make it. I say this about every.
It's almost like you seeing how many people you help has given
you confidence. That's definitely helped me.
I think being at the events as well, seeing some of the
beautiful queer women, having my gorgeous queer friends.
Especially in West London, by the way.
I mean, that's something talk about because obviously queer
events need something. They're epic.
But when I moved to to. Hey, I'm going to start a
rivalry. We're starting a turf war.
That's going to be completely a joke from us.
I don't know if they're going to understand if it's a joke or
not, but I'm starting a rivalry. It is West versus yes, and it's
going to be like Romeo and Juliet.
I'm supposed to make a joke? Bangs, we need gang signs.
A bit like the Diddy documentary, no?
Yes. Yes, basically that.
Basically that, yeah, it's going to be rough out here, guys.
Buckle up. Meet.
In Central. Just for a big fight.
We meet in Central for a ring fight.
Yeah, somebody at Trafalgar Square will put a ring.
Yeah, a boxing ring. And me and the West lesbians on
my side. But I can guarantee.
He's lesbians on that side. I.
Can guarantee that only lesbians involved are going to be femmes
because masks pretend to be strong.
Yeah. None of them actually want to
fight. No.
Agreed. Unless they're actually toxic.
Yeah, but you'll be fucking. I'll be, I'll be crying.
I'll be crying. Can't be asked to have you on.
No, no you're not. I'll be talking about my coming
out story. I'll be ripping someone's hair
out and you'll be in the corner like welfare.
Tent. No, genuinely.
Anna's in the welfare. Talking about my mental health
experience because I'm helping our people but also to want
myself. So Annabelle's saying that she's
a black belt. So Annabelle's going in West
Anna, you've got your workout for you in the welfare tent.
Good luck to. You good luck to me, good luck
to you. I find love in there maybe.
Yeah, you might. Maybe.
Yeah, that could be a story. But We Found Love in the welfare
tent. We found.
What's your type? Mentally unstable.
And weak, but going back to you as a mask presenting lesbian and
this internalized homophobia which you've opened up to me
about, but only recently. Yeah, only very.
Recently, recently and as soon as I know I'm like, come on the
podcast and talk about it. So many women.
I think it's really important to talk about internalized
homophobia. I think, especially from a mask
presenting lesbian. And I was saying just before we
started recording here, I do actually think that I've noticed
that some masked lesbians have more of the internalized
homophobia than I would say the fem, that the fems are just
like, we're just here, Like we're just like, I'm gay, I'm
gay and there doesn't really, I, if I'm honest with you, like and
this isn't obviously a blanket statement to all fems, but the
fems I've met, the fems I'm friends with, I never want never
once really having that issue. And I'm wondering with the
masked lesbians, I think there'll be a different reason
for each one. It could be the fact that, you
know, either you are walking the world differently, so you're
suffering more hate, therefore that's feeding into the
internalized homophobia. But what would you say for you?
Does it have anything to do with you being a mask lesbian, like
mask presenting lesbian? Or do you think it's entirely
separate and this is just the way you present yourself?
But that is a different thing. Yeah, really good question.
I think for me, it's a lot of different things.
I think something, you know, I were discussing it, it's
understanding that yes, I present masculine, I get my show
that it comes with complications, but I'm also
extremely feminine like, and something I'm working on is like
really loving that. And over the past year, as I
began to wear more men's clothes, have my hair short,
obviously there are many women that really enjoy that and are
really attracted to that energy at first.
And if you go on my Instagram, it's full of mirror self with I
look, I look like a bit of a Dick.
No, you go but like a sexy 1. Like it's like, it's a good
thing, Yeah. It's sexy dickhead.
But then, you know, girls get to know me and then obviously I
have anxiety. I've struggled depression in the
past. I'm extremely sensitive.
I work on being not too, too sensitive, but that's a huge
part of who I am. Like I love really loudly.
And love that about you. I grew up in Spain.
I express really loudly. That's that's also funny, yeah.
Because obviously you come across as so British because of
your accent. Yeah.
But the way in which you are is very Spanish exactly, because
obviously that was your upbringing.
That is who you are. And that I think that's a big
thing that really drew me to you.
Yeah, I've, I've, I mean, I didn't grow up in Madrid, but
I've had that kind of. Similar, but it feels like you
are. Latina.
Feels like I've always said to you, it feels like you're
European because you're so expressive and no hate on Brits,
but people, people that are Britain, they tend to, you know,
think stuff and not say it. Whereas closed off that's.
How we're taught to be. And I don't know, it's just
never, it's just never been me. And I've always really resonated
way more with the Latin culture, the music, food, the dancing,
everything about it, the communication, the way in which
they are with their families, the way in which they are with
their friends, the openness, like all of it.
I've really, really resonated when I think that's beautiful.
But yeah, so sorry. You're very sensitive.
Yeah, And so you feel like you've catfished them.
Basically, you're like, here I am, this mask.
Exactly. And now here I am, crying.
It's not only expectations from outside the community where the
struggles from being misgendered and not looking like a
stereotypical woman, but it's within the community when you're
dating or when you're going to know people that yes, masks can
be sensitive and can but also have feminine energy.
I think it's just basically as a queer person, although labels
are really, really helpful and they help us feel validated,
they can be really dangerous and they can confuse you and not
make you make it harder to love just yourself as a person.
So I think that's where I'm at at the moment is learning to
accept that. And something that might sound a
little bit controversial, I mean, that I'm kind of working
through is, am I presenting as masculine as I do as a way to
hide again? So I, I hid my whole sort of
childhood and, and teenagehood from being gay.
And I think something that my, I was, you know, a friend said to
me and my therapist said to me, and then I said to you, and you
kind of agreed, is am I more comfortable being mistaken for a
man than being seen as gay? So when I get misgendered it
does bother me sometimes, but there are other times it doesn't
bother me. And it's almost like am I
relieved because I'd rather be mistaken as a man then someone
see oh that's a lesbian because I've struggled so much with
being a lesbian not say I'm going to suddenly wear heels and
grow my hair. I want you to wear heels and.
Because if I if I did that, that, you know, I've.
Got a wig I can put you in actually.
I would look really quit but I'm saying like just trying to make
steps to be as firm in as possible.
No, I think that that is really interesting.
I think especially when it comes to actually dating a woman.
I think for you, and this is the conversation that we had, that
you'd feel more comfortable walking down the road hand in
hand with a woman because you'd look like a straight couple.
Exactly. To the unknowing eye, obviously,
like you have feminine features. I'm looking at you and I see you
as a woman, but it's like. Another another privilege.
But you will walk down the streets and people just think
that's a straight couple if they're not really looking.
Whereas if you walk down the street holding a woman's hand,
who is femme? Immediate lesbians.
That's an all.
Invalidated as lesbians actually.
And be like, well, that's your friend.
True, true. You know, this happens a lot too
and they're like, you're not really together or they think
that we're making out because we want to get guys attention.
This happens all the time and I'm like I'm not making out with
a can. Also fucking straight woman
listening to this. Can you stop doing that weird
shit? Stop messing around with us.
Stop fucking getting with girls and get male attention you
absolute freaks. Experimentation is gay.
You.
But tell me you didn't like that.
I'm just saying to you now. Or at least by.
Get with the girls, that's fine, but if you do it to get guys
attention, I'm fucking banning you.
I know I'm just so angry about it.
So cross because Oh my God, why the fuck did they do this?
But it's not actually just the women.
Women, I'll never blame you babies, I'll never blame you,
I'll take it back. I'll actually blame it on men
because so many men just believe that everything is designed for
them and that is where that has come from.
Oh, it does happen where girls do make up with girls for male
attention. It does, yes, totally.
Especially back in the day. I don't, I have not seen it.
I don't think I've been in like a club for a while though.
Like I'm in a club. I haven't been in a club for a
while people. I hate me a millennial for
saying that I am millennial, but I still don't want to be called
1. Yeah.
I haven't been to a club in a while, so don't know if maybe
women are still doing this. Now.
I know they do. They're straight women that
figure out that I'm gay and then they're up my ass, they're up my
vagina like a tampon all night. I'm like, girls, can you
actually fuck off? Like I'm what is up with this?
They're getting worse. No, it's again, it's kind of
like the way that men sexualized women has has has moved into
straight society in general, Yes, and straight women accept
it and it's, it's even like I've got friends, I think.
Porn as well. So I love straight people, so my
best friends are straight people, know no.
Straight. I like my straight friends.
However, however, I love my straight friends.
I do have a few who are engaged to men and and if they were in a
club and they snogged a woman, the fiance who's a man wouldn't
mind. But then he would mind.
If she snogged a man in my head, what's the difference?
Because for them, they're like, well, it's not actually valid
because it's a woman and because they can sexualize it.
I think it's just, it's the way in which media has betrayed
lesbians in general. So now it's even reached the
women, the straight women, and they see it on Pornhub.
They enjoy watching lesbian porn, they get off to lesbian
porn, they sexualize women. And I don't know, for me, I
think it's also because the patriarchy has gotten so bad and
women are now figuring out that they actually have a bit of a
choice, which they didn't really have before.
And I think that now they're getting their first hand
exposure as to what we did via TV, in person, because the
media, the media isn't showing it to them.
So when they now meet someone like me or Scarlet, whoever you
live, they come over to and they gravitate towards us because
this is their exposure. And they're like, hold on a
minute. I didn't know that lesbians like
you existed. And I didn't know that you guys
actually existed in the real world.
And you went to the places where I go and you look the way that
you do and you have the jobs that you do.
And like, what do you mean they get.
So I can actually see the penny drop in real time?
Yeah. Then they're like, I don't know
if I'm going to tell my boyfriend that was his and I and
I blah, blah. And it's like, OK, well, I'm not
here to be your experiment. You go figure that on your own.
OK, I'm not a museum. You go for it, but it's
happening. It's happening increasingly
more. They are mystified by it.
But I do think that it's really it's an amazing breakthrough of
yours to have had that with your therapist about, you know,
obviously presenting more mask and as a way to accept yourself.
But I just want to say from your friend is it doesn't matter how
you look. All of that side, you being gay
is a part of you. And who you are is beautiful.
Like you are one of the most amazing people that I've ever
met in my entire life. You really, really are.
And everyone that ever hangs out with you, who's my friend?
Yeah. Liv is raising her bottle and
Annabelle is flapping you. Whenever I, whenever I introduce
you to anyone, they love you straight away and you have such
a way about you. Your sexuality is just a part of
who you are. Your identity in how you dress
is just another part of who you are and, and it's fucking sexy
and it's cool and I love it. It doesn't need to be niche.
It doesn't need to be explained. You just dress a little bit more
masculine because we've created masculine and feminine labels to
shit that doesn't even fucking count.
Like it literally what the fuck is masculine?
Exactly. This is what's so crazy to me.
And that that's why when people are like, we hate all the trans
shit, I'm like, well, you want to hate the trans shit, but you
want to gender everything so much.
Yeah. Exactly.
Right. So if you stopped doing that, if
you stopped saying that blue was for boys and girl and girls.
You set everyone. Free you set everyone free and
then obviously we can have our like biological sex like I know
that I'm a woman. I'm happy to a woman and it's
powerful because we are so fucking oppressed and we have
been for so many years. But when you go to the shop,
you're not shopping for men, you're not shopping for women.
And the same goes for kids and whatever that is.
It's fucking material at the end of the day.
And if you really want to get historical about it, you could
see that with the Romans, how they used to dress.
They used to wear men used to wear makeup because that was why
makeup was invented and that's why.
Have you ever seen a masculine and a feminine duck?
Well, I'll tell you about it so and masculine duck is beautiful,
very colourful, very alluring, sexy some might say.
And the female duck is like more plain because it's all about the
masculine duck is the one that's all colourful and pretty because
it's there to court the female so that they can mate.
That is the job of the man is the man, like the male species
within any animal Kingdom actually is for them to entice
to fuck and then to leave. That's their job.
The men just need to actually just fuck off on leave.
But like, that's all they're really good for.
You'll actually find that, especially even if you were to
look. I'm going off tangent, but if
you were. To no, no.
It's so interesting. At a pride, so like a pride of
lions, the female and the mother is the boss of that.
And this is very often the case. The man is very subservient to
the woman because they are, sorry, I hate to say it, the
lesser species they are in terms of the the lesser, not gender,
but the lesser sex. They they're not as powerful.
And that is why women have been caged up for so long, because
you wouldn't try and tame something that wasn't going to
threaten you. Would you tame a lion?
Yeah, you fucking would. Would you tame a tiger?
Yeah, you fucking would. Because that tiger and that lion
is stronger than you are. And they know that.
And that is why they have to put women into such tight boxes.
All you have to do is look through history and look through
any different animal species and you'll see that the female is
the stronger sex. Exactly.
I think animals show us so much about how.
And they're all gay, yeah. They love gay Penguins.
They love gay sex. They love it.
They're all about it. OK, I'm going to give you the
mic, the floor. Yes, you're talking to young
Anna. We can pick an age if you want,
but what is something that you want to leave is like a lasting
impression on this pod to younger Anna you would want to
say. So this is not a plug, but last
year I was on the telly. I know we joked about at the
beginning. So I was on ABBC.
One show called Stranded on Honeymoon Island.
I was joking, by the way, when I was being nasty, no?
No, no, it honestly, it was the most amazing experience of my
life. But no one really watched it.
So it didn't really blow up like like we thought it would.
But not talking about this to plug it, but if I could go back
to being in the depth of like really thinking that my life was
going to be hard and I was just incorrect as a person.
It went that deep. And then I'd never really feel
peaceful and happy. But then last year, I said yes
to inexperienced to appear on a dating show in a small way, but
to appear. And they chose me for basically
no other reason. Not because I'm clever, which I
am, or because I'm pretty or nice to look at or have big
muscles, which you are, or speak in Spanish.
Always amazing things I can do. Yeah.
None of that just because I'm a lesbian.
That's the only reason why they flew me out to the Philippines
to appear in this show. And like, that is one of the
most powerful things I've ever done because not only did I
become the representation that I really wanted when I was younger
because I was on a show. Yeah, that was on TV.
That was on mainstream TV, that mainstream TV.
And BBC is kind of like middle-aged people that watch
it, so it's like a really important demographic to be
showing that to. 100%. And when I was out there, all of
the story producers, the casting team, the welfare team, no one
treated me differently. It it was just normal that I was
there as a lesbian character. Lesbian character, yeah.
And that was the only, that was only thing.
And I my whole life I've tried to get the best grades, work for
a big tech company that everyone knows, have loads of friends,
have everyone say they love me because I've always felt like
being gay is like, OK, that's the, that's, that's the bad
thing about me. Whereas this show only thing
they liked about me was that. So I think I've just calmed down
in terms of like. That kills me by the way.
I've calmed down since and it sounds silly because it's it's a
reality TV show, but the meaning behind it was like, immense.
I'm so grateful to Davina McCall.
This is why you need to do stand up.
She's why you need to do She's amazing.
I must be gay. She's got to be.
She's too a little. Bit, little bit.
She survived so many things. But this is but I was so proud
of you because I remember when you were talking about going on
the show, I was like, do it, do it, do it.
And I said to you, it's like even if it doesn't amount to
anything, whatever, like you are putting yourself you, and I've
seen you ever since as well, like push yourself continuously
out of your comfort zone because there is no success and there is
no comfort within the comfort zone.
It just stays that way and actually becomes very
uncomfortable to be there. I think you're a different
person since you've done the TV show Liver saying that she
thinks she's a different. I remember being in my kitchen
at 4:00 in the morning with Liv and other people going, should I
do this thing? And Liv being like, yes, Anna,
like. Liz had 10 to kilos, Anna's had
20. Anna Guinness.
And so, yeah, my advice to everyone was, you know, just say
yes to stuff. And what about little Anna Lana?
I would say everything will be OK.
You know, I'd, you know, sound that sounds simple, but
genuinely. Well, little Anna is very proud
inside of you right now, and so am I.
I honestly, I'm so I'm so glad to hear that.
I know that there's still some issues that go on throughout
your mind, but that you're pushing through it, that you're
brave enough to talk about it, and that you are owning who you
are. And you are definitely the type
of person to shout about and the right person to advocate for.
And you've got the biggest soul ever.
And I should have prefaced this actually when I was introducing
you, but Anna quite literally like saved me from the trenches
so many times last year via pints and me crying like you.
I honestly don't know what I would have done without you.
Literally grabbed me and pulled me out so many times from so
many bad situations, even to the point where you would leave
coffee on my doorstep or, you know, you would meet me with wet
hair at the pub because I told you that I was at the pub and I
needed someone. And you, you are the type of
person that deserves to feel so loved, not just from somebody
else, but from yourself, because you are the most lovable person
and you give so much. And I hope that even if you give
15% of you to you that you gave to me, you'll be a very happy
woman. So.
I love you and thank you to you for the space that you build.
My life and many others would be very different.
Well, no, it's just and you live.
It's just great to have the lesbians all together.
I feel and I feel and honestly I do genuinely, and me and
Scarlett feel very, very honoured that we get to do this.
It is a privilege in itself. You know, we talk about
privilege. This is my privilege.
It's the way in which that we get to do this.
We get to host these events. We're now going global with
this. We're going to Paris at the end
of the month and then we're going, we're going to drop some
other dates. I can't say it here, but all of
these things are happening which.
Is more important than ever. And it's like my biggest
weakness became my biggest strength, you know?
And I think that the same thing will happen to you, and it will
become the thing that you will actually love the most about
yourself because it comes with so many different umbrellas
under just the word gay. It's not just about being gay,
you know. And I love you and I've loved
having you on. Is there anything else that
you'd like to say before you go? Dobina McCall Give.
Me bless Ellen DeGeneres, you still have one fan.
You still have one fan. She's in the car, I know.
I've thought about that. Should we go Oh.
You've got the should we another one so I'll she.
Definitely goes oh fuck. Sorry, we should go.
We should go summary about. Me born in school, ski posh
spoilt, tried to cheat. Good summary actually.
Is it really good one? Really.
Good, lovely person. House membership You would
actually be the best girlfriend alive though.
Like I say this so many. Times and it's Valentine's Day
this week. So if message me, it comes out
like within OK, so what's the date today?
It's the 10th. Chill, who cares whenever.
Fuck it, I'm going to put this out on Valentine's Day and if
somebody doesn't DM you by the evening, it's fucking game on.
It's game on. But no, also, you have loads of
girls in your DM. Don't even fucking try me right
now. Don't even try.
I love you and thank you so much for coming.
On you too. Thank you so much.
Lesbians and we will speak to you next week.
Bye. Bye bye.