Hello everyone, welcome to this week's episode of the Lesbian
Supper Club podcast. You are joined today by
Scarlett. I'm a little bit ashamed to say
that actually because I do acknowledge I've not been
visible for the last three months.
So sorry about me. Have not really got much excuse
for that other than I've just prioritised other things,
rightfully or wrongly. So been busy.
I've been really ill suffering with a neurological condition.
So that's partially why I haven't been around because I
have been in severe pain 24 hours a day, which is now under
control. Thank you, Saint Mary's
Hospital, but I am back today and I'm back today bringing you
a guest and conversation which I'm really excited to kind of
dissect and go over. And I think it will be a
conversation that you will all probably be able to relate to in
one way or another, find super useful and hopefully super
insightful. So I want to introduce to you
today Jazz. Hello Jazz, how are you doing?
I'm good, thanks for having me. Thank you for coming on.
We gave Jazz I think less than 24 hours notice to appear today,
which is very on brand. So thank you for taking the
time. We're really excited to have
you. I'm.
Excited to be here. This is a really cozy sofa.
Yeah, it is right. It's first time for me as well.
By the way, guys want to say as well, we are now officially
recording in the Spotify studios.
We've done it, we've made it. Thank you Spotify.
So life is going to be a lot easier for us.
Life's going to be a lot more interesting for you because
we're going to be around a lot more.
We are going to be a lot more visual and a lot more visible
and a lot more consistent because we've finally got there.
We've locked it down and we're ready to go.
So yes, first person in the podcast studio other than Shura
last year on a consistent basis. So please do introduce yourself,
give us a little bit of insight into who is jazz, what do you
do, and let us know whatever you want us to know.
OK, I'm Jazz. I am 24.
I came out last year in January now, so yeah, it's gone by
really, really fast. I am on a show called Made in
Chelsea and I also run. Yeah, I'm going to ask you to
drop the routine at the end actually, because I think that's
going to be a big a big topic. I will for sure.
So I kind of do little bits and bobs here and there when I'm not
filming, but essentially a film six months out of the year.
OK, so yeah. And how long have you been on
Made in Chelsea? Done it for I think over 2 years
now 2 1/2. Years.
OK, so talk to me a little bit about that initially.
How did Made in Chelsea come about for you?
What is that journey like on a day-to-day and what has that
journey been like over the last two years for you?
So after uni, my SO, I've always wanted to be a professional
tennis player. I played at an Academy growing
up, amazing. And then I played at uni and
straight out of uni my mom was like, right, you got to get a
job straight away. Tennis didn't work out.
I really wanted to become a tennis coach, but my mom
essentially was like, you have to crack down and get a job
ASAP. And so I was like, fuck, I don't
know what I want to do. Like I want a tennis coach.
I've I want to explore a little bit, but essentially my mum is
an Alma mum. She's very strict.
She wants me to get a nine to five and whatever, but I wasn't
sure. So me and Chelsea approached me
and I was like, technically that's a job.
Like, I think it's a pretty, pretty bloody hard one as well,
actually. But I was like.
Brain surgeon, There's nothing to that as far as I'm concerned.
I was like, on paper, technically all I wanted to do
was just tell my mum that I've got a job so that I can figure
it out essentially. So I was like, I'll just join
Made in Chelsea for for the plot while I figure out what I want
to do because technically it's paid and whatever.
So I did that and I said Mum, I've got a job and she.
Not that job actually jazz, but. Yeah, literally she was like,
this is not what I meant, but I was like, I'll just do it for a
little bit while I figure out what I want to do.
And I'm still here, so. So overall, it's been a positive
experience for you. Definitely, yeah.
Overall, yes, obviously it's hard at times.
Yeah, it's challenging. It is not for the weak, I'll
tell you that. But I do have fun.
And would you say overtime of being on the show in terms of
having that public element of the show?
And it is a reality TV show ultimately.
So the whole purpose of it is to have storylines filmed and put
out there which are interesting in game viewership.
Like this is the world and which we all operate in.
This is media, this is TV. But obviously that comes at a
cost. And do you feel over time that
that has got easier for you or is it something that you still
very much have to grapple with every day?
And what does that look like to you and how does that feel for
you? Appreciate that's a big
question, but I think it's an important one.
I think over time it's definitely become a lot more
challenging because I think for the average Made in Chelsea
viewer, it takes them a while to warm up to someone or for
someone to kind of, how do I describe this?
It's like survival of the fittest on that show.
So you kind of it takes time to kind of establish yourself.
At the beginning I didn't feel a difference per SE, but now it's
definitely something that's a lot more challenging so.
Your presence has become bigger on the show and therefore your
people, your viewership and the people that know you and comment
on you has has grown and grown because you have shown up more
in that way. So you've become more of a kind
of main character, so to speak. So it's got a little bit more
intense and difficult over time. Definitely for sure.
But I think my way of handling it has gotten better slowly,
yeah, because you just get used to it at the end of the day.
And I think it is really nice that my best friends are also on
the show, so we kind of navigate this you.
Experience it together and you've got that kind of support
network, yeah, directly around you, which is I think super
important. I was thinking about this
earlier because I do think when you show up publicly, and I will
hold my hands up to this as well.
I think anyone who knows me knows that I'm pretty strong,
convicted individual in my beliefs, sense of self, what I
think about things, etcetera, etcetera.
But even me, I would be lying if I sat here and said it's not.
It's something that I don't think about.
If I think about posting something online, how it's going
to be perceived? What are people going to say?
Am I going to be judged? What does that do about how I
feel about myself? How does that affect me?
And I was thinking earlier, again, what you say about kind
of community. I think The thing is the same
for me is that what keeps me grounded and keeps me on a
sanity track actually with this stuff and with the noise that
surrounds us in this world is I look at the people around me and
I look at the people around me. And I've got some really
incredible people around me. And I look at them and they are
beautiful people both inside and out.
They're successful people. They're intelligent people both
academically and emotionally. And they are my friends.
And I trust that I look at the people around me and it grounds
me back into the person who I that I am and how I feel about
myself and hopefully how I put myself out there in the world.
That even on days that I can't trust myself or look at myself
in a positive light, I can look at the people around me and at
least trust that they wouldn't be around me if I didn't
represent those values that I see in them.
And it does look like you have some really beautiful people
around you as well. And I think we have to sometimes
take a step back and realise that that is a reflection of us
and how we show up in the world I love.
That yeah, I really do love that.
And I think having those people around you and close to you is
so important, especially when your job is challenging at
times. For sure.
And also family as well. My family have been and my
friends as well from before that.
So obviously I've got my friends on the show, but even the
friends that I've known since I was little, they do a really,
really good job at supporting me.
And also, you know, taking me back to Earth when I when I need
it, which. 100% and again that you say friends from childhood,
people don't maintain long term childhood friendships if they're
not good people with good values.
MMM and it's the same for me. I still have friends that I
don't speak to all the time, they're all over the world.
But we're still extremely close. And again, I think it's a
reflection on you. Clearly not a perfect person.
None of us are perfect. Probably look back at some
things and think if I had a magic timeline or I had a magic
ball, I would have done that slightly differently.
I would have said that differently.
Maybe I let myself down a bit there.
But no one is perfect. And the fact that you hold on to
long term relationships in that way shows that ultimately the
values that you hold and the way that you show up is generally a
very respectful, positive, good way, good light in people's
life. I want to kind of carry this on
in terms of, so you've been on Made in Chelsea for just over 2
years. I think it's fair to say that
you've said that your character in the show has grown.
And I think it would probably be fair to say that the gay story
is probably what grew that character and your presence on
the show. You came out publicly last year.
So I want to talk about that experience and I know it is
something that you've spoken about generally.
But I think in the context of what we are discussing here in
terms of having an online social presence and the pressure that
comes with that, having to then work through very difficult
feelings, I would imagine internally knowing you've got a
light shone on you. How was the process of coming
out and how has the last year been for you?
I actually came out on the show and before then I was deeply
closeted. I don't know how obvious it was.
Some people say that they could see it from the day that I
stepped on Made in Chelsea and other people were completely
shocked. So I actually haven't checked
out your walk. I need to do that because if.
You've got the gay walk. I'll know.
People definitely picked up on something and also my love life
with guys on the show, excited storylines with guys on the show
before I publicly came out and that was just in shambles.
So OK, did you just like blow up your boyfriend's?
Yeah, a few of them. I just.
Yeah, there wasn't really much. Best friend vibes, Yeah,
definitely siblings or dating kind of thing, which actually
lesbians do as well. That's a whole other like kettle
of fish. We do it in a slightly different
way, which is weird, but yeah, OK, fine.
And then it was, I think for me, and not many people understand
this still about me, is that weirdly, I find talking to the
cameras and filming very therapeutic.
So I would say stuff in scenes that I would never ever say if
the cameras weren't there. And so I came out on the show
and it genuinely helped me. It spoke it into existence.
And I feel like if it wasn't for the show, I wouldn't have ever
come out, I think. Interesting.
And I still to this day choose to talk about stuff that I
wouldn't have ever chosen to speak about if it wasn't for the
show. And I guess that's a blessing
and a curse. Yeah, depending on the
situation. Do you think that's because
actually we've spoke generally so far and I've probably come in
with a slightly negative association to the media world
is that do you think you are able to show up with that level
of conviction and honesty on the show outside of maybe your
day-to-day life without the cameras on you?
Because I'm sure as much as we sit here and say people present
negative situations and opinions and sometimes spread hate in
awful messages, that I'm sure you've had so many people reach
out to you and say that you've had such a positive impact on
them and help them in their journey in one way or another.
And so do you think that actually maybe you are able to
open yourself up in that way because you know that you're
telling a bigger story for people actually just beyond
yourself? 1000% especially now, I think
with coming out, I didn't really know what to expect, but I knew
that if I did speak this into existence, I'm not only speaking
to my friends, but I'm speaking to my family.
I'm speaking to a wider audience who, you know, I really hoped
that I could help other people as well because I know that
they, there's so many people that were in that position.
And from the feedback and all of this, I don't really pay
attention to the negative stuff, especially when it comes to
coming out and becoming who I am.
I know that me doing that on the show, it runs a risk of having
people not like it or having people not understand it, but.
I think we can laugh at those types of.
People, though, like people. Come at you with like homophobia
and. Things.
Oh my goodness. Yeah, though that type of stuff
doesn't touch me either because I'm just like, ultimately you're
a degenerate. I've just got nothing else.
It's like we're not the we're just not the same.
Like you're an unevolved, simple person with lack of intellectual
capability, and you don't represent me.
So actually, I don't want you to understand me and I don't want
to understand you because the day I understand Someone Like
You, I'm like you and I don't want to be like you.
I think the ones that hurt a little bit more are the ones
that come on a personal level of maybe who you are and picking up
on things that feel maybe come with slight injustice around
potentially people watching one thing and it being presented in
a certain way. But maybe that isn't your whole
reality and you're having to deal with the the backlash that
comes with that. So how is that because without
going, I think too into the detail because I don't want to
become another ingredient in the in the pots, but I think it's
important that you have a space to speak your truth on what is
going on right now and and how that unfolds and feels and looks
like for you. That aspect of it is really
difficult because I obviously know what I sign up for, you
know, read the contracts. You, you don't get control over
how you are edited. But obviously I am aware that
everything that I say that I do is me and there is no script or
anything like that. But I think what I struggle with
is there's not a lot of context to scenes on the show.
You know, they air kind of like a two to three minute
conversation that was in reality up to three hours.
So people base their opinions off of what they think they know
is the truth, which is frustrating.
But also I can't complain about that because I know that's how
the show operates. I know that's how it works and
it's edited in a way to create the most entertainment ever with
like certain looks that I do. And I know that I've I've had to
make a TikTok video because I I do a weird look that never is
received well which but I just smirk in really awkward
situations. I don't know if you're the same.
I've got an upside down smile. I don't really know how that
works. I don't even know how I do it
because when I look in the mirror and try and do it, it
doesn't happen. Then people are like, Oh my God,
you smile upside down and I'm like, that's it.
Because I, I, I can't frown anymore because of Botox, right?
So now it's gone to my lips. OK.
So yeah, I get it in a slightly different way.
I understand. So that, you know, the editors
probably have a field day when they've when they're editing a
scene with me because I make so many faces.
Yeah, inappropriate times. And that's something that I
don't know if I'll ever grow out of.
But yeah, it's been difficult, especially when people build
such a parasocial relationship with you and they think that
they know all of the facts and they see something on the screen
and they're like, that's exactly how it went.
So I'm going to form my opinion on on that exact moment.
And of course, anyone can form their own opinion, but I think
it is hard when, yes, it's a reality TV show, but there's a
lot of context that unfortunately gets removed.
Well, there's 24 hours a day right in a day and Made in
Chelsea is not filming those 24 hours a day, seven days a week,
365 days a year. It is a marginalised part of
your everyday life. And as you say, whilst it is
reflective of reality, it is not the whole picture.
And you, I would imagine then are dealing with with situations
that unfold on the show and then also tied to your private life,
you're dealing with the the opinions that are formed on
that. And people are potentially
forming opinions about you and about your life based on very
small actually snippets of bigger pictures.
And I suppose you've come out publicly, you've had a public
relationship which people as well.
I want to actually take the time to, to talk about this just
really quickly because people I know will be saying you choose
to put yourself out there. So expect this.
And whilst I agree to a certain degree that actually, yes, we
all do choose to put ourselves out there.
We are operating within an industry that absolutely opens
ourselves up to that. And at any point, we could all
just remove ourselves, delete social media and go and live in
a cave somewhere. However, I don't think the two
things can come together of would you put yourself out
there? So I'm entitled to send you
abuse. I'm entitled to not even form an
opinion. Everyone's entitled to an
opinion, but I'm I'm entitled to attack you and the person that
you are and pretend that I know everything about you in your
life. Those two things don't come
together. You should be able to show up in
a show and display parts of your life which as we've touched
upon, has actually probably been very beautiful, very healing for
you and actually very healing for the people that watch you
and you, I'm sure you've made a massive positive impact on
people's lives. That doesn't mean that you then
have to accept threats and hate and like really disgraceful
comments to an absolute like barbaric level just because
you're on ATV show, because that basically is victim blaming 101.
It's like someone saying that someone done something
inappropriate to me and the other person saying, well, why
have you sat next to them? That's not the same sentiment of
what we're talking about here. You came out publicly, you've
had a public relationship and then you've also had a public
breakup. And I don't watch the show and I
don't watch a lot of things on social media either.
And I don't see a lot of the things that go on.
But I am, I am aware that you have obviously been living in a
bit of this media circus at the moment surrounding all of that.
And I kind of just want to get your perspective on and your
understanding and your your story of how that's been and
what that's looked like. And if there's anything that you
kind of want to say on the last year and what that situation and
that storyline has unfolded for you and kind of meant for you?
It started off so beautifully, like I came out and I met
someone. I couldn't wait to show everyone
my journey so far. And I think I made the decision
to bring on my partner at the time to kind of bring her into
my world and bring her on the show and, and it was amazing
until. I made the mistake of doing that
because it was something that was so pure and it was it.
Our relationship played out at times on on TV relationship
issues and stuff like that, and that is something that I do
regret doing. I think it's normal for couples
to go through turmoil and stuff, but when it was something that
was so fresh to me, I was still figuring out how to handle my
first gay relationship that shouldn't have been done for
other people's entertainment. So I do regret doing that.
But I think ultimately towards the end of my relationship, we
were struggling and it wasn't perfect by any means, but
because of my previous experience filming about it, I
chose not to film about it anymore.
I was like, I'm going to tackle this behind closed doors.
I'm going to try and figure out what was going on without
letting anyone know production wise and without filming about
it. And so ultimately my
relationship ended. I think there is a slight bit
where we were filming and I just broke down because I was like, I
need to figure out who I am completely over what I'm doing
completely. And I was shoved in the scene
where I think they knew that I was struggling behind closed
doors of my relationship and I refused to film much about it.
There was a lot going. On Sometimes it's so difficult
because saying nothing is saying everything, right?
And this is the hard thing. It's like I'm a deep believer in
things in life are always going to go the way that they're going
to go. So irrespective if you had
brought your partner onto the show or hadn't, sadly, it
probably would have ended because if two people aren't
going to work together or don't work together, I do believe
external circumstances can can absolutely have an impact and
don't help. But either people are meant for
each other or they're not. And actually they can be meant
for each other for a certain period of time and they're not
be meant for each other anymore. Doesn't mean it was always
wrong. It just means that you grow and
sometimes you grow with sometimes someone and sometimes
you grow apart. And I think we in life put such
a really intense perception on everything, having to work
forever and last forever in order for it to be a success.
And that's such a terrible way to look at things because I'm
sure that relationship, although sadly ended, taught you a lot,
helped you grow into the person that you are, made you think
about the things you do want in the next person that you meet.
And also maybe the things that you don't want doesn't mean that
that person is bad or wrong. Whether it you were bad or
wrong, it was just a moment in time that no longer fit you
anymore. I agree though, I think it's a
difficult balance because as I opened up with that response
there, not saying anything is saying everything.
Because if you hide it or keep it entirely private, people will
comment and say you're hiding it for a reason.
Something must be wrong, it must be toxic.
Why aren't you coming out and be in public if you had nothing to
hide, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
You come out and you speak openly about things that
literally every single person in their life will go through.
We all argue with people, we all have disagreements with people.
We all rub each other up the wrong way.
We all sometimes shout, we react.
And yet because you're doing it publicly, people then comment as
if they've never done this themselves and then are so quick
to be like, there's something wrong with you.
And it's like, oh, so you've literally never had a
relationship. You've never had an argument
with someone or disagreement, but because you're in a public
space it's so heightened. Yeah, I I get put on this
pedestal a lot and I think for me, in my head, I'm like if
anyone had a camera in front of them documenting their.
Respectfully, I would never do it like fair play to you because
I show up in this way, but I know I control the narrative and
not because I need to control the narrative because I'm scared
of the outcome, but I do understand that it is it is a
reality show. And at the end of the day,
they're they're going to do things that that make it a
success. And that's completely fair
enough. And that is what you signed up
for, but it's not always helpful.
No, definitely not always helpful for sure.
And I think after that whole breakup, we had a break from
filming and it was like over the Christmas period.
And so we had a good six weeks in between.
And that was when, you know, I was dealing with a lot,
processing a lot, going through a whole breakup, trying to
figure out what the last year of my life was and then go back to
filming with a fresh start. And there was a lot that went on
behind closed doors that I chose not to speak about out of
respect for certain people and, and whatever.
But yeah, then I guess people draw their own conclusions based
off of what goes on after, which is fair enough.
But there is no truth behind any kind of like overlap or anything
like that. Yeah.
And I think that's important,
what you just said there as well, is that you've chosen to
respect certain elements of what went on at that time in order to
respect the people involved and also not feed into it as well.
Because you do have to bring yourself up on a higher level
because sometimes reacting is just feeding the beast, right?
But the hit that you take with that is then having to allow
some narratives that are false to run concurrently with what
you know is the truth. But I think the one liberating
thing that you can take from that is that just because other
people do things, it doesn't mean that you have to do it.
And as we said kind of at the beginning of this conversation,
you know what went on, You know what you experienced, you know
what went on, you know how you dealt with it, maybe good, bad,
indifferent, you know, and you have to wake up with that and
you know the person that you are.
And again, the people around you that were involved that are
close to you and know who you are, they also know that.
And so beyond that we paralyze ourselves thinking about, and I
do, I paralyze and punish myself all the time thinking about
stupid things, sometimes even from 10 years ago that I still
will be like I wish I'd never done that.
Why did I say that? But it's also just such a non
conducive way of thinking because at the end of the day,
it's done. And I'm sure mistakes were made
along the line, not even in the last year beforehand.
It's a part of life. None of us are perfect, but
being able to like for me as well, I know that whilst I've
never would claim to be perfect and there's definitely things
that I would look back on and do very very differently, I can
stay very very strong in the fact of knowing I have never
woken up or gone out of my way in this world to cause harm to
another person. And that doesn't mean that I
haven't caused harm to other people.
Absolutely it happens. But I know I've never walked
through this life and done something knowing that it will
negatively impact another person and taking any form of enjoyment
out of it or actually tried to build on it for my own personal
gain. And I'm sure you could probably
think the same about yourself. Completely, definitely.
And I feel like there was. Obviously, I'm still very much
trying to figure out this world that you're living in and and
dealing with. Is that the gay world or the
media world? Or both?
Both. Yeah, but gay world,
essentially. For gay world, you're reborn,
right you like I know that you'll probably hate the saying,
but we call it baby gay for a reason because.
Like constantly called a baby gay.
It doesn't help as well that you're like 5 foot 2, which
feeds into that like baby narrative.
But it's true because it's like, OK, let's turn it on the other.
Like on the other side. It's like me waking up tomorrow
and realise that I fancied a man.
First of all, I'd. Want to die?
God forbid. Yeah, please, please.
Just like, no, I've been gay for basically as long as I've been
in romantic relationships. And so I only know that I only
know being a lesbian. I only know my queerness.
I would have to learn what the dynamic of being in a
heterosexual relationship would be.
And I am sure that two straight couples and a partner, I would
probably be acting in a very nuanced way of what the norm
looks like there. And you've got that on the flip
side. And alongside that, this
community is formed on community.
Like there is so much strength in this community because we've
had to have so much strength. And so there is so much nuance
built into that and like micro microaggressions and micro
sayings and and labels. And because it all ties into a
sense of community, but then also trying to navigate that and
work out who you are must be held.
Yes, it has been held definitely.
I would say especially the last three to four months because I
think for me I still haven't mastered the whole blurry line
friendship situation, OK. And I've never really gone
through a situation like that up until recently with.
Again, it's just part of like there's a set of boxes that
you've got a tick to be in the club and you're ticking them and
that's how you've got to look at it.
Sorry, it's not funny because it's hell.
I've spoken about it before. I was in love with my best
friend for four years. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When I was. We're friends now, which is,
again, classic. It was love.
I was a baby. I was actually a baby.
I was 14 to 18. So it was very much infatuation,
puppy love, the discovery of who I was alongside being in love
with this person or infatuated with this person.
It's difficult. It's really difficult when the
lines get blurred because if this feelings are not
reciprocated, or rather what I find often is that it's not the
feelings aren't reciprocated. Some people can't meet you where
you're at and they'll tell whatever story needs to be told
to both themselves and you in order to not meet you there.
And the hardship of that is knowing that irrespective of
you, whether you think it's right, wrong, could be love
forever or you just wanted to explore it, you have to leave
people where they're at. I agree.
And it's not easy. No.
Definitely not easy, but I think
also to caveat of that, it's like how I don't think a lot of
people really understand it if they're not, if they haven't
experienced it or if they're not part of this world that we're
in. And I don't really expect anyone
to understand it, but I made the choice to, again, because I'm a
weirdo. I find it very therapeutic
speaking it into existence on the show.
And it's it is my therapy, speaking to my friends and and I
know. I have to pay for a therapist.
Sorry. Yeah, exactly.
Well, you're going to have. Your salary cut for Made in
Chelsea because they're going to be like, actually we're giving
you a service here, so we're taking 20% off.
I know. They should have a therapist on
set for you I think, to kind of come in.
They have now. They've heard a big lesson from
you over the last 6. Yeah, they do.
They've got a psych now and. HR Yeah, OK.
For sure. So I think currently that I
mean, what I said about navigating female friendships in
a very queer environment, it's been challenging and it's been
covered on the show. And I think the reception, I
don't think a lot of people understand it because there's
again the. Gays will understand it, but I
would imagine the Made in Chelsea audience is
predominantly straight people and they're not going to
understand it. No, they they don't and they've
formed their pretty strong opinions on that situation
anyway, which is fine. And I think it didn't help that
this situation that I was in, there was a boy involved, a very
charming man. It was also, it was like this
weird. I mean, it's still ongoing.
So the triangle. Yeah, weird little triangle.
And obviously course. There's always a man to come in
and fuck it up as well. That's why I initially decided
to leave us. Alone.
Do you know what I mean? Yeah, Yeah.
That's why I initially spoke about it because I was, we were
navigating this rare bond or whatever it was.
We were figuring it out. And then this guy kind of came
on the scene. And so unfortunately I can't
shut up about how I feel. And if I don't say anything,
you'll see it on my face. So I think, and then again, I
kind of utilize the cameras as a way to get my feelings across.
But yeah, the audience, they don't really understand where I
was coming from with this. But then again, I've had so many
messages from people in the queer well-being, like I'm going
through the exact same thing with a friend.
Like, you know, thank you so much because I can really
resonate. And that's those are the
comments that I care. About exactly.
And that's what matters is that you're never going to get 100%
agreement from everyone ever, and if you did you'd be dead
because you'd be trying to fight and prove a point to people.
You'd just be generally exhausted.
We are all different, we all have different experiences and
ways that we walk through the world and we're going to
disagree on things. When you are out there publicly
to a predominantly straight audience, they are going to
favour to normative storylines and they will make you the
villain, not because it's about you.
People will always choose the familiar of what reflects them.
They understand this third party coming in and them having, I
honestly don't know what's going on, but it's me making an
assumption, them blossoming into a beautiful romantic
relationship because they can see themselves reflected in
that. If they can't understand you and
you're experiencing queerness because they're not queer and
they also don't want to, people decide to just not educate
themselves as well. And it is a decision to be a
bigoted asshole. It's a decision that people
make. I'm sorry, I just don't care
where you're from, what your religion is, you can choose to
not be that person. It will always make you look
like that person that you're not because people can't sometimes
raise their head above water, touch some grass and understand
that it's a lot more than just straight down the line, black
and white. And but as you say, this
community and this is where I hate when people say, oh,
gayness is just the same as being straight.
We want to be accepted the same as straight people are, but we
aren't the same. And that's OK.
Our relationships actually aren't the same.
And I, I don't think how queer people walk through the life,
walk through their life, sorry, generally is the same in any
way, shape or form. That's OK.
But yeah, when you're on a show and it's predominantly straight
audience and storylines like that are going to come up,
you'll I don't think you'll ever be in favour.
And I think that's something that you're going to have to get
used to pretty quickly. But like you've said there, it's
still worth it because look at how many people have reached out
and can relate to you and you've had a positive impact and I'm
sure probably will now help many people navigate the same
situation. And it's the same for me with
this podcast. Like there's days that I bat, I
bat with myself on it nearly every single day, nearly every
single day. And it's always nice because on
really hard days, I will get messages from people being like,
I've listened to this episode today and it might be an episode
from a year ago that I've forgotten about.
And it's, and it sounds extreme, but I do understand where these
people are coming from saying it's generally changed my life
or I've never felt so seen. I've never heard someone say it
in that way. That's what keeps me going and
that's kind of what feeds me. And I think the same for you,
Like you should keep showing up, being the person that you are,
not wholly accepted, being attacked, and actually just have
that part of your journey. Because for the 10% margin of
people behaving like that, you're going to get 19% of
people being amazing and finding your presence very, very
valuable. Completely.
And I think now when I look at comments and people are forming
their opinion based off of that being old jazz, this jazz that
in comparison to the people that messaged me being like, thank
you so much for doing that. It's really helped me.
So it's I can definitely grasp a big difference on people having
an opinion on me based off of, you know, that they're not
liking my character in this storyline and that they they
don't want me to ruin whatever's going on.
And then versus the people who messaged me being like, you have
severely helped me get through this.
Thank you so much. Like you know, it's worth it in
my opinion. And it's a completely different
weight of reaction as well. You're waiting someone's
pathetic immature backlash comment because they're not
healed in a way and they're literally sending you a 2 minute
a 32nd message. They're not thinking about you
after because they're off to troll some other poor fucker.
You're one in a million if these people are.
These type of people don't understand it.
I've never gone online in my life and commented anything bad
ever. Don't understand it?
Think you're strange? Don't want to again, Don't want
to relate to you? Go to therapy.
Your karma is the person that you have to look at in the
mirror every single day. Good luck to you.
That weight is nowhere near the same as someone saying you've
had such a positive impact on my life.
So even if 10 people are saying shit things and one person's
saying an amazing thing, the weight of that one person is so
much more than these people. Yeah, completely.
And that's why I, I will continue to to represent.
I think it has been very, very difficult being in that
environment, being a gay woman for sure, but as challenging as
it is, and at times it feels very alone on set, talking about
certain things. Especially as a series goes on,
it gets more intense. For sure about and it's certain
things that you're experiencing for the first time as well.
Yeah. Like if I think back on my first
coming out years and that was filmed, not because I've
necessarily done anything horrific, but like you don't
have something to pin yourself against.
So you're having to do it for the first time that you're
literally wading in complete darkness and exposing yourself
publicly, which is terrifying. But I think you need to take a
moment that you are actually doing something.
And I'm just sat here thinking this now.
It hasn't really been done before.
And if it has, it's usually gay men.
And it's different, and I say this a lot to people.
Being a gay woman and being a gay man is very different
because gay men are still men. They still have the benefits of
walking through the world as a man.
Doesn't mean that sometimes the hate that they get is not
absolutely horrific and actually in some ways a lot more
physically damaging, aggressive. As such, when you're a gay
woman, you have to deal with the fact that you're a woman and you
never understood and you're always belittled and you're
called stupid and all the things that come with being a woman,
and then you have gayness slayered on top.
And it's a whole other kettle of fish.
And you're probably one of the first people to be doing this in
a public reality TV settings. Think like people need to cut
you some slack. And you probably, if you're
anything like me, would need to cut yourself some slack as well
because you've got no Bible to go off of.
You are the Bible. Yeah.
Other than this podcast. And don't go off this Bible.
You know this is a bad Bible. Yeah, no, it's been, it's been
rough. But do you know what I hate?
I don't know if you've had a similar experience, but I've got
this best friend called Jules and she is in a straight
relationship. She's literally going to marry
the guy. We are like very, very close and
people tend to say, well Jazz is like that with her friend.
So like, that's just the way Jazz is, or that's just the way
that person is comparing my friendships with people that I
am genuinely just friends with, with no confusion and there's no
blurry lines and whatever. So I think, again, this is from
people who obviously can't resonate and don't really
understand, but I think that's something that is extremely
challenging when they kind of undermine this weird situation
that I'm in because they see me with other people and they're
like, that's just how jazz is. I don't know if that's a common.
No IA 100% get what you're saying and it it comes from
sadly toxic societal norms that have been instilled in society
historically. Which is one of two things where
lesbians are concerned is that you fancy all your mates, which
is weird. Or if you don't fancy them, like
what you're saying about Jules is that well then if you're
displaying so much affection, but they don't, they basically
don't want to accept lesbianism. That's what that says.
It's it's homophobia just in it with a different lens.
Because what that narrative is saying is that you can't accept
that I can have a deep emotional loving friendship platonically
with someone and also have a completely different emotional
relationship with someone else because I couldn't be diverse in
my feelings. Because they see it as black or
white. It's either you're all with each
other, it's all fake. And that again, is just rooted
in the societal way in which queerness and also lesbianism is
is just displayed. And it's like one of the many
battles that we have to fight. It's like I always this is a
really awful thing to say and I don't actually find it funny in
a lot of ways, but it is a quick way to shot people down because
I don't like coming after people's appearances ever.
But it's a good joke, and I do like it, which is when people,
like women in bars have like, tried to say previously that,
like, lesbians would like that you tell them you're gay and
then they think that you want to sleep with them.
And it's like, I might be gay, but you're still ugly.
Yeah. Like and they might not be ugly
and even if they are it shouldn't matter.
But what I'm saying is is like, I why?
What? So you, every man you meet, you
want to sleep with or you can't have a male best friend and have
a boyfriend. They can't seem to apply those
rules to us because they see us as so different because the
world has made us so different. And yeah, very frustrating.
But again, this is where community is so important in
this world. And I don't understand, like
Republican lesbians. Sorry to bring politics into it
because like, they're not your friends in that way, like you.
How can you hate on a community that is kind of your savior?
You can have straight friends and and heterosexual people
around you and they can love and support you and give you
everything, as I'm sure Jules does.
I've seen a snippet of that friendship and it looks
beautiful, but at the end of the day, there's going to be some
things that she can't advise you on because she's never going to
experience. And that's not on her.
She can help, but to a certain degree, if you've not lived it,
you don't know. And this is where like community
is so important. And I hope that you through
this, like I'm sure you will build community, you will build
people around you that will give you that and hopefully liberate
you in that way. Honestly, it was, it wasn't up
until recently that I kind of embrace like genuinely, I mean,
last year I really wanted that sense of community and I didn't
have that. I didn't get the opportunity to
have that important sense of community.
Within, well, you came out and met someone and bunkered down,
which again, it's a classic. Like, we've all been there.
Don't worry. You're actually just making
yourself like, valid in being very gay.
Do you know what? Because you're not leaving
anything up for assumption. You're ticking all the boxes.
Great. But I think recently I have
definitely found that sense of community and and made more
friends and it honestly is so incredible to have.
And I wish that I stood strong on that more last year and
really trying to find those queer connections because with
everything that I experienced with filming and what was going
on there, I genuinely had. I don't know if I can shout her
out. Anna.
Stordy yeah, Anna's been on the
podcast. Shout out to Anna.
She's been incredible. To quit a job and become a
therapist. Respectfully, she does.
She does throughout that whole experience.
Obviously no one on the show could really resonate with what
I was going through and and how to deal with it, but Anna
honestly was the best individual ever and she was so helpful and
she really validated how I was feeling, which if I didn't have
that after. Yeah.
After airing now and having the response being that like, if I
didn't have Anna and that I would have been screwed, yeah.
Screwed. Yeah.
It is so important to have people who really do understand
because it makes you feel seen and understood and not crazy.
Actually, yeah as well. And I don't think that we can
speak enough to people like when we're going through things, you
have to talk to people about it because otherwise you drive
yourself insane. If you're anything like me, you
just go on the same loop. Yes, same loop.
And it is, it's, it's real hell. I actually want to talk just
quickly then about the public element of, again,
relationships. And you've obviously experienced
something publicly, which I'm no doubt came with.
It's good and bad. Has that left you a bit scarred
because there's been relationships of scarring
generally. Then you've got the public
element of, as we've just spoken about there, generally,
generally heterosexual audience, et cetera, et cetera, all of
that. And then we're sadly living in a
world full of people who I don't really understand wine.
Again, it's going to sound ironic.
So I sit here on a podcast that I literally own and put myself
out there publicly, are desperate for fame and
attention. And is that something that is
playing on your mind in terms of living publicly and having maybe
people that will potentially exploit that?
As in with dating, sorry. Yes.
Is that something you consider now because you've had a public
relationship comes with its good and bad?
I'm not speaking about that. You would get that anyway, but
obviously people do a lot of people like when people have
public profiles. I don't understand it because I
actually really don't like this word in so many ways.
Like me, an influencer event is like a kid on a first day of
school. Like I just can't do it.
I sit there on my own. If someone comes and speaks to
me, it just, it's not my bag I'd rather go into, but I'd rather
go into Westminster to be honest and just fight with a
politician. Like that's where I get my
crack. But I understand the world of
what you have to navigate in and what I'm saying is it's not
something I ever understood, but I know people do it and I'm
quite naive to it sometimes because I don't behave in that
way. Is that something you're
experiencing? Because the lesbian community
loves a bit of clown as well. They love it.
Yeah, I definitely would say I'm selective anyway, but I don't
think that I could do the whole public relationship thing again.
But maybe it's just because I'm scarred at the moment because of
everything that happened afterwards and all of that.
But in terms of dating, I think right now a bit, I'm a bit, I'm
a bit terrified to date, to be honest.
So I haven't really given it much thought, but I definitely
wouldn't date someone. I haven't actually thought about
it. I don't know.
I think it's pretty obvious, for me anyway, that I can read
through people pretty well. So I kind of know people's
intentions. Or if they're genuine on the
energy. For sure, I'm a big energy
person. Me too.
So I think I'd be able to know pretty quickly what people's
intentions are, but I definitely wouldn't.
Go out there as much as you did. Yeah, like my whole yeah.
Yeah, I think it's interesting what you say there is.
I wouldn't do that again. And I actually think, again,
you're probably doing yourself a bit of disservice because
ultimately this is your life you live publicly and until you step
away from Made in Chelsea, if ever, or cut yourself off, this
is the reality that you're dealing with.
And this is the reality that you're going to deal with for
the foreseeable future. And you still need to be able to
have a balance of living your life freely and openly and
celebrating and showing the person that you are with.
Maybe just managed with how often, in what way and how much.
And again, learning curve, we can all look back and think oh
shit if I knew I wouldn't have done that.
Doesn't mean it's wrong, just didn't suit you and you've
worked that out now with the next relationship when that
happens. Healing journey and all of that
took me a while. Brilliant though.
Best thing you'll ever do is to sit at yourself, sit on your own
and really look at yourself and work out where what you want
going forward from realizing what you don't want from your
past. I don't think it's fair to say
to yourself, I'm not going to do that and I'm going to not hide,
but that I'm going to have to go completely the opposite
direction to avoid what's happened in the past.
I think everything's about striking a balance and you
should be able to celebrate the person you're with and openly
show love and celebrate that in a public way.
Just maybe giving yourself ultimate access, not 24 hours a
day, but to what people perceive, perceive as ultimate
access is just not for you. And that's fine.
And it's just something in between and that's absolutely
fine. And I'm sure that you, when you
meet someone and you select that person, you'll know that they're
right by the type of conversation you have with them
surrounding exactly this. And they're either going to meet
you where you're at and understand and be on the same
page, or they're not. And actually, it's a really good
way of dissecting if someone's right for you or not.
Because if they come at it with no, I want to be out there, I
want to do this, I want to do that, You're not for me.
If they say I don't want you to speak about me ever and keep me
a secret. Also not going to work for you
because your life is public. So it's about meeting someone
who can meet you where you're at.
You treat them with respect, they treat you with respect and
you kind of manage it in that way.
And it's not to say that issues won't come up, they will.
When people see people happy, they want to tear them down.
But it's how you are with someone that responds to that.
I think it's the most important thing I.
Agree. Well, I don't think I'll be.
I'm coming for Anna Stordy's title.
Yeah, honestly, this has been like a therapy session.
Thank you. Made in Chelsea.
I'm currently I've just left my job.
So but I think it is important because it everything's
happening for the first time in a public setting.
And so you've got to work through all of these things
constantly. But I think you are clearly
doing amazingly. I I, as I say, I don't follow
these things, but from what I've seen, I think you show up
incredibly well. You show up with strength, you
show up with integrity. You show up as the person that
you are. Doesn't mean that I'm sure
you're always a perfect person. Absolutely not.
But you show up with truth and you show up with genuinity.
And that's actually more than what a lot of people can say in
this life. So I think keep that and ride
that and just remember, you know who you are and the people that
you care about know who you are. I just got really weird deja vu
and I don't know why, but here, yeah, me saying that to you,
maybe I'm going to be saying the same thing to you next year.
Yeah, yeah. Literally you've got you leave
here and just go and do the same thing over but.
Thank you. That's honestly, I really,
really appreciate that. I think you are a very wise
lady. You are.
Depends who you ask. Depends who you ask.
Liv. Oh, to be fair, Liv does say it,
but then I also partially pay Liv, so like, do you know what I
mean? Not probably the best.
Go and ask a few of my other friends.
Ask Nat. Yeah, well, thank you for coming
on and speaking today because I do think that whilst most people
watching this or listening to this won't be in the situations
within the public lens that we've spoken about at length, I
think it's actually useful to give that insight to people and
allow them to look at it through your lens.
However, I also think the topics that we've discussed today, like
you say, the coming out, the first relationship, the first
breakup, that's a whole other different episode, maybe
actually for another, another time.
Because the feelings and emotions, the friendship,
falling in love is again, all topics that Lesbian Supper Club
have touched upon before and discussed actually in great
detail. And it helps people to not feel
alone. And ultimately that's what this
podcast is about. It's a community podcast.
The events are a community space for people to have conversations
such as these. So I really thank you and
appreciate you for coming on and showing that vulnerability,
particularly whilst the whirlwind is happening because I
know that's not easy either. I would usually wait two months
for it to at the end and I can gain perspective before I come
and talk on it. So I really respect the fact
that you've stepped into this today whilst it's happening and
held yourself the way that you have and I hope been able to put
across your perspective and your truth per SE.
I do also just want to finish off by off the back of that, I
speak on this podcast a lot about mental health,
predominantly since I went through my own probably
actually, I say my journey, my journey started when I was
pretty much 10 and mental health, which I think a lot of
people could probably resonate with, but definitely was very
enlightened to me over recent years.
And it's something that again, I've chosen to take all of the
lessons and all of the absolute suffering from that and bring it
to this podcast to try and help other people.
And I do just want to take a moment to highlight overall the
discussion that we've been having today, that whilst yes,
people show up publicly and decide to display parts of their
life publicly, please can we all just remember that we are
actually all just humans with feelings and with family and
with friends and lives. That we all just want to live
and live in peace and have happiness the same as everyone
else. And it doesn't mean that we're
not going to make mistakes that people are allowed to give
constructive criticism on. And it doesn't mean that we're
going to be perfect a lot of the time.
But I do think if you are listening to this podcast as
someone who does or has gone online publicly and been vicious
to another person or spread hate, lies, manipulation.
Please do remember that whilst we show up as strong because it
is our job and we have to have a level of decorum when it comes
to this and almost make it unemotive in a lot of ways.
We are also people that have to layer our heads down on the
pillows at night with the thoughts that exist.
And I don't want to sit here and say that it doesn't affect us
because I know that people like to say that narrative of I just
ignore it, it doesn't affect me. I don't want to give these
people the the insight because then they do it more.
I think that's a lie. I think that we actually, it
does play over in our minds and it does affect us.
We can definitely grow resilience to it and we do.
And you're not controlling our lives everyday, but it does have
an impact. And I just think if you are
someone doing that, please do take a good look at yourself in
the mirror and question why you're doing that and why you
feel the need to do that. And I think we'd all be a lot
happier if we decided to turn that into nice conversations and
building ourselves up rather than taking energy to tear the
people down. And that's how I want to wrap up
today's episode of Lesbian Summer Club podcast.
Thank you, Jazz again, so much for coming on.
We're very happy to have you in the community.
I in a selfish perspective out off the mikes like the stories
that you can bring with a glass of wine.
So that's great. Thank you.
And yeah, I think you're going to go on to no doubt, continue
to have amazing experiences both online, offline, in the media,
and I can't wait to kind of watch this journey evolve and
grow for you and see where everything goes this year, next
year and beyond. Thank you, Scarlett, so kind.
And thank you everyone for tuning in to today's episode of
the Lesbian Supper Club podcast. Please make sure to follow us on
socials. We're going to be in the Spotify
studios going forward now. It's going to be visual.
It's going to be better. We've got so many exciting
things coming up and I can't wait to continue to have more
conversations such as these. So thank you again, everyone for
listening. We love you and we love this
community. Goodbye everyone.