Hi everyone, it's Freya here. I just wanted to do a quick
disclaimer before this episode. I actually recorded this episode
a little while ago now and I wasn't sure for a while if it
was one that I was ever going to post.
But this podcast is all about having hard conversations and
talking about difficult things and this episode with my mom
really reflects that. The journey between me and my
mom and my sexuality. Since I've come out it's been a
long 1 and it hasn't always been easy and some days there are
still those sticking points of communication we worked through.
However, on the other side of that, I am so grateful for how
far we have come and how I do truly feel so accepted for my
sexuality now where my mum is concerned.
And I think it's super important to share that if you can relate
to this, whether it be you haven't come out or you're going
through difficult times of family or like me, you've gone
through it and come out the other side.
But of course it's always going to be an ongoing conversation
that needs to be carefully discussed and worked through.
You aren't alone and despite how difficult what it can be, and
sadly a lot of the time it will be, if being able to live your
truth is safe for you, always choose that, even if it's not
always easy. Now let's get on with the show.
Hello lesbians. If you can see my mum's face
right now, she's acting like I'm Louis Theroux and she is sat in
like a prison cell or something and I'm about to ask her why she
killed her own mom. Do you know what I mean?
Like the way that you're looking at me right now, you look
terrified. Why are you so?
Scared. I don't trust you, OK?
Hold on, I've got to introduce this episode.
So I just put it on to the Instagram story that I was going
to have an episode with my mom Jill.
If you guys have heard our previous episodes we've spoken
about really a few times and I absolutely love her.
She is my mom this she me being Freya, this is my mom Jill.
And I put on the story a little photo of her beautiful face and
I was like ex homophobic mom wants to know your questions.
I was. Never homophobic.
I knew you were going to look at me like that.
You told me you wouldn't throw me under the bus.
I'm not. Throwing you under the bus, I
said. Ex homophobic.
No. Yeah, I said.
We're sat here with a with a glass of red wine.
Not ever. OK, OK, OK, well, you can get
into that. We sat here with a glass of red
wine. I bought some really nice wine
from Lidl. It's like a Chianti with a mango
sorbet. How's the mango sorbet treating
you? Delicious.
I love how you're treating it like your death row meal.
Like you. It's what it feels like at the
minute that this is maybe the last.
My Last Supper, somehow. I think, I think that you're
being a little bit pessimistic going into this.
I have a. Feeling start well did it ex
homophobic mother. Is it X?
No to say I'm X because I was homophobic in the 1st.
Place you don't believe that you were.
But the main thing is that so many people that listen to this
are going through a situation right now or have been or are
going to go into a situation where they have to come out to
their parents. And that's not exactly the most
fun thing to do. But I want to make this light
hearted. I don't want to make it a
serious thing because it doesn't have to be.
OK, well, all parents out there, potential parents, new parents
of lesbians. Go speak to them directly, Jeff.
You don't know what you're in for.
You're really in for it. You're evil.
So I've got a few questions here.
What was the turning point in accepting Freya not?
Accepting that you were gay. What was the turning point?
I think it was the same day that I realized you were gay.
Really. Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, I feel like. And this isn't me to say you're
you're a horrible person because you're really not.
You're you're an amazing person. However, you did react quite
dramatically when I came out. I wouldn't exactly say that that
was like you accepting it in the moment.
And that's fine. Like it's not a problem.
You didn't have to accept it. We need.
To put this into context, OK, you were quite a difficult
child, I have to say. All right?
And it's quite, quite exhausting.
Took all my energy. And we send you on a holiday to
Brazil because we think that. I paid for that, yeah, but.
We allows you to go and I think. Because I was 19.
I think. We, I think, fucking need your
permission to go. No, no.
I think we're still paying for it, but it's something to do
with you turning up in hotels in Ipanema and different things, I
think. You just it was not.
I think we ended up paying for it in the end.
Yeah, because we ended. Money.
No, but. Yes, my Amex.
We ended up paying off your debt and I thought, oh, she's going
to be so happy when she comes back.
So happy. And what you do, you're burst
into tears because you realize you'd left the love of your
life, which was your friend, female friend behind in Brazil.
My. Girlfriend at the time, yeah.
And it wasn't the fact that you said that she was your
girlfriend, it was the fact that you came back and you weren't
happy. That was The thing is.
That what annoyed you the most? Yes.
Really. Yes.
Because you really weren't happy with the fact that it was with
the girl. You did call me disgusting.
Oh, no, no, it's fine, Mum, it's fine.
It's not a problem. But you can help other people
just say yeah. Didn't accept at the time, but
it's fine now, you know, And I think that that's a really,
really nice thing. I don't hold any of this against
you. I really, really don't.
I understand you so well, OK? I don't hold any of this against
you. Before we go any further, this
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And with this spooky season, don't make it so spooky anymore.
Do you have any advice for kids or grown up coming out to
potentially unsupported parents? I don't think maybe.
Maybe if you think that I dealt with it badly, OK, I don't
think. OK, I don't think any parent
that loves their children is is unsupportive.
And I think we watch so many movies these days where you see
children coming out to their parents, but they come out to
them in ways where they sort of sit them all down and say, Mum,
dad, I've got something to tell you.
And you know, and it's, it's all right.
But to be honest, it doesn't really happen like that.
It happens in a row usually or, or, or something turns up or
something comes out which you're not expecting.
And to be honest, I didn't have an inkling.
I didn't have an inkling that Bethy was was gay.
Not at all. So you.
Feel like what she. Had she had boyfriends and she
was, you know, lovesick over over this boy that things didn't
work with. And I honestly did not think,
you know, I think sometimes, you know, I suppose possibly maybe
with boys and not girls. Sometimes people do get parents
get some idea or an inkling that their their son might be gay.
But with daughters it it's not so obvious and I think.
I did love riding ABMX skateboards.
I had a mullet. I just thought you were a
tomboy. And there was a there was a time
at school when someone said to me is is is she a boy or a girl?
Because she liked to wear boys shoes and have a haircut short
and, and wear trousers where the other girls wore skirts.
But to me that she was a tomboy. I was a tomboy growing up.
You know, I live my life sort of playing with my brothers Meccano
set and Dinky Toys and living up trees and wearing dungarees.
So do you think that like actually the problem is because
I think The thing is that I agree with you, right?
In an ideal world, you'd be able to have a really calm
conversation and it'll be like, look, this is something about
me. I hope that you accept me for
it, you know, But I think that that's not always how it comes
out. Because I think that people,
people who are gay feel so trapped in their own body, in
their own mind, that it comes out.
It may be not the best way that it ever could because they never
like wanted to do it. They never wanted to sit down
and have that conversation. So maybe when they're having an
argument, it's like, and guess what, blah, blah, blah.
Do you know what I mean? Because it's sitting right at
the edge of their throat, like waiting to come out.
And then it doesn't. And then they're like, oh, now
I'm going to tell you this thing about me because I'm already up
here and I feel like I've got to get it out rather than I'm going
to come calm. It does happen.
Some people do come like calm and collected.
I always say that I have another person there.
Like I think that's a really good thing to like have other
people there maybe not feel like you're so isolated for the
person coming out and also for the people that they're coming
out to. So you're basically saying that
your advice to other people like coming out that maybe they
should do it in a bit more of a calm and collected way.
Is that what? I think you've got to pick the
moment. It doesn't need to be in the
middle of a row because everybody's heated.
Everyone said things they don't mean.
And. And regret it.
Yeah. I mean, I will regret the end of
my days things, things that I've said, you know, because I love
my daughter and I would never do anything to hurt her.
And I I would support her in every single thing.
And I love, I love Scarlet, her partner.
Yeah. You know, Yeah.
Wish her to have any of the different lives than the one
she's having now. Well, that's really, really
nice. That's really nice to hear.
So somebody's asked, what advice would you give to a gay kid
that's afraid of coming out because they're worried that
their parents are going to get hate by association of having a
gay kid. I think they.
Have to actually fully understand that actually, if
they come out, but your parent has to come out as well.
And that is something that, and of course there's, there's,
there's nothing for the parents to learn about how to do that
because they then have to come out because then you have to
tell, you know, they have to come out to their family.
They have to come out to their friends, their work colleagues.
That never ends, right? It's always going on, Yeah.
And so many people will say, of course it's cool.
It's cool if my son or my daughter did that.
But you don't know how you react.
And the fact that people sometimes say, oh, really?
Are they, when you're at work and things you think, well, if
it doesn't matter why you actually saying Oh really?
And actually going around to the other office say, did you, did
you know Jill's daughter was gay?
I didn't know. She never.
Yes, she said. I never realized she was gay.
Did you spit it? No, that was about your sister,
not you. No, I know.
But so I always say to just have a strong right hook, strong
right hook, just pull up if anyone has a problem.
Like I feel like at the end of the day, your kids and the same
goes S like kids with parents say, for instance, I was
straight or I was gay and whatever, right?
And you came to me and you came out and people all of a sudden
are asking about my, my gay mom, right?
And then they're asking me these questions.
If somebody had even an ounce of hate face because it's like you
protect the ones that you love and those people.
Ultimately, it's a really good way of figuring out somebody's
an asshole or not, and I would never want you to get any hate
or any gossip or anything for who I am.
But at the same time, do you ever just think what a sad
little life. If you care that much about
someone's kid that you've never even met, that's weird, right?
You've got something that's. Weird because I, I mean, I've
just moved into this village two years ago.
I didn't know anybody and I met someone I thought was a very
nice lady and she, she met me. I didn't realize it was the
village gossip, and apparently what she told everybody was oh,
Jillson, she's very sweet. She's a bit bit dippy and all
her children are gay do. You know what?
I knew I hated her. I knew I hated her.
What's her fucking name again? Jane.
Jane the Pain absolutely can't stand people like that.
You know what in fact she was. Called Talk a lot, Jane.
Yeah, talk a lot, Jane. Talk a lot.
Jane. I have so many issues with you
know what? I've never actually felt
terrified of someone before until I met her.
And I was. I look at her and I'm like,
you're terrifying. Like, because there's something
crazy behind those eyes. Do you know what, though?
That's so funny. Never somebody like that.
They're not the credible source. Also, a very, very good friend
of yours around here is a gay man and one of your neighbours
was a lesbian with a lesbian couple.
You know, it is what it is. You live in a smaller town.
We've just been in Carbus Bay. Every other person we saw was a
lesbian. So surprised I've never seen
anything like it. But I think The thing is, it's
like, why do you like ultimately it's like, you know, that if you
were to lose a really good friend over them not being
supportive, but luckily you've never been through that.
But like, say, for instance, one of your great friends turned
around to you and said, I don't agree with that.
That's not for me. I don't want to be around it.
You're then like, well, you've kind of saved me a job because
you're clearly an awful person. Like, do you know what I mean?
Like, I feel like that's the one way to look at it.
You know, imagine like Melanie doing like she'll never do that.
And he's like sweetest woman alive.
And your friends here are really, really lovely.
I think that it's like anyone who has that kind of idea, if
you're already struggling yourself, try not to worry too
much about what everyone else is going to face because of you.
I think that's like it adds an extra passion, extra layer.
So I'm answering for you, mom, but it does just.
Thank you because I'm blanking out now.
What's your favorite thing about Scarlett?
I think my favorite thing about Scarlett is part for the fact
that she just makes me laugh so much.
She's so funny, but she's so capable.
She's so, I don't know, she's in.
She's capable of doing so many things.
She's so clever. But The thing is that she loves
my daughter and Bethany has gone from strength to strength ever
since she met her. And oh by the way, just a PSA to
everyone here. My first name is Bethany, so my
mum will call me Bethany and I'll.
So I'm just letting people know who.
Listen. Sorry, Carol, I'll always be
grateful and so grateful that she found Scarlett because she
makes Bethy so happy. That makes me happy.
Well, and I love her. She loves Scarlett, too.
Yeah, we all love you. And then last but not least,
because I don't want to keep you here forever because I know that
this is your worst nightmare, but I do think you're doing
really well. Yeah, but I've also got a glass
of wine to finish so you can. Still drink it?
Can we just? You can drink.
Yeah. All right.
And she is doing really well. Do you know what?
I had to drag her by her hair, her nails, her teeth to get her
into the seat. So I don't want to keep her for
longer than half an hour. The last question is how long
did it take you to process your daughter being gay?
Somebody says that her mum is still in complete denial.
So you're talking to this person like her mum is still in
complete denial. She won't believe it.
It didn't take me that long to process it because I'd been
there before. Yeah, basically with her older
sister. I mean, obviously, and she'd
sort of paved the way really for Bethany.
I think at the beginning, you know, I wasn't really sure.
I wasn't really sure that this is really what Bethany's, I
don't know how to put it, that that this is what she was going
to be. Is she because she.
Was young and she you know, and said she'd had a boyfriend and
things and it was very. Different to Megan's situation.
Yeah, yeah. But, you know, it became really
clear quite soon on that, that, you know, she, she sort of
really meant that. And I didn't know that she'd had
any kind of struggle about it before.
But then saying it to somebody whose mum is still in denial,
what would you tell them? I think to say that actually,
don't worry because your daughter can have the life that
you probably always planned for her.
I remember reading up in a psychology book about what
happens when parents have a gay child and they sometimes go into
some form of bereavement because of all the hopes and plans
they'd had about their child. You know, the, the daughter
meeting a lovely boy, having the babies.
And I remember thinking, you know, when her older sister came
out and said, Oh my gosh, she won't, she won't do any of those
things. And of course she did.
She is married and she will have a baby and, and hopefully
Bethany will have a baby. And, and you at the beginning
though, you, you go through this phase where you think everything
that you'd brought them up to sort of be, has changed, but
actually it hasn't changed one bit, you know, and, and if you
love them, you just love them for, for who they are and, and
the choices that they've made and keep your relationship
really strong. Don't, don't lose your child.
Yeah, there's no point. Don't lose your child over this
issue because all they need is support.
And they will have all the things that you ever hope for
them love and they will be cherished and they will
hopefully have children. And, you know, life will accept
them and people will accept them.
And nothing really has changed very much at all.
I've just gotten better. And then you just I've just
gotten. Better, I mean, I, Yeah.
You make me really proud. Oh, and last but not least,
growing up, did you know anyone who was LGBTQ?
Like anyone from the community? Did you know any gay people when
you're growing up? Or trans or.
When I was growing up, no. But I do remember being asked
out once on the telephone by an anonymous gay woman.
You could. Have been very happy Gilly.
Yeah, so I was working, I was working in a Hospital in London
and and they'd managed to get hold of the number in the the
nurses home, which is a very, very nobody, nobody got that
number. I don't know how they found it.
Must have been an insider job I think.
And I. No, you know what?
We know this lesbians will go to their degree.
They'll find it. FBI.
No. And I I was never really sure
because I worked in a gynecological hospital.
Oh God, did you serve her? No.
Well, there was two possibilities.
I was never quite sure who she was because it was anonymous.
Well, she said she was Georgina, but I didn't know who that was.
One, It was either the the lady with the short hair and the
men's shoes that was working in the laboratory where I was doing
some study, or this rather, I don't know this woman that I
gave this pubic shave to. And I wasn't really sure about
her reaction to it. I thought that's a bit strange.
So her reaction so, well, I can't really say, but I did
wonder whether anyway, I did say I'm really sorry.
I'm really sorry, but I, I know I'm not gay.
And they went, You're not. I said no, I.
Really am not. So well, shaped him up real nice
daddy. Just said, I'm really sorry, but
it was always that mystery person.
I thought, I wonder who that was?
I wonder who? Oh, and I know I did go out with
a boy. Rich now.
No, no, I did go out with a boy once.
It was a DJ and a bus driver. I mean, I did sort of didn't
have a lot of standards once. And he, no, he took, no, he took
me along to one of. He was a DJ on a gay night.
Yeah. And I sat there like a
wallflower because neither the guys or the girls.
Asked me to dance. Oh.
My God, imagine going to a gay bar and not having anyone hit on
you, Joe. That's what makes me laugh so
much when women are like, I don't want to go to a gay bar
because I don't want women hitting on me and then they turn
up and no one hits on them. And you think, why not?
What's wrong with you? What's wrong with me?
I know. Anyway, Jilly, I love you.
Thank you so much for doing this.
I really appreciate you doing this because I know that it's
not. I know you hate stuff like this.
Excruciating, I actually think. You've dealt with it really
well, apart from your little hiss at the beginning where you
wanted to walk out. But I do love you and I know
that you've come a long way and I really appreciate all the
things and the way that you are. And you're so nice towards
Scarlett and Whitney. Like in the family, you're the
best. Carry on.
I love you. Do we have to end it here?
Can you? Now you want me to carry on.
You were itching to go away before.
Before I was complimenting you. 5 foot one of pure love.
I love you. Actually 5 foot and half an inch
5. Foot and half an.
Inch. I'm drinking.
Oh, we're going to end up sinking some more wine together.
She's going to tell me off of smoking in the garden and then
that'll be our evening really. We will speak to you very soon.
I'm sure that I can try and convince her to come on to
answer some more questions at sometime soon, but I know that
she might want to do. It so don't worry.
About it Mum, I've had, I've had hundreds of questions that have
peeped through my phone whilst we've even been doing this
recording so I can actually show you right now just so I can hear
your live reaction of the amount of questions I've just had in
hold on. Oh.
My gosh, I couldn't. There's so many all of.
Those deserve a good answer. They do, they do, but yes, and
everyone show. The thing is, is that as much
hate as we get in the world, the best thing that we can ever do
is to show compassion. And I think that that's the main
thing that we all have an amazing strength in.
So you carry on giving compassion and understanding and
if you're listening to this and you haven't yet come out or
you're scared or you're going through a bad situation right
now, just know that you have us and we'll speak to Jilly.
Speak to Jilly. I'll give you a phone number.
We love you guys and we'll speak to you next week.
Bye. Go on, Mum, say.
Goodbye, goodbye.