The Better Business Analysis Institute.
Presents the Better Business Analysis podcast with.
Kingsman Walsh Hi everybody and welcome to the show.
Today I have a very special guest and that guest is Ashwin
Shikar, also known as Ash to his friends.
Ash loves his craft beer and he's a great BA.
Ash also has an amazing back story.
He was originally born in India. He completed his studies there
and actually has a Bachelor of Communication and Media Studies
from Chennai University. He then traveled to Dubai where
he worked in media and advertising and other related
industries. Before making a determination
that he wanted to be a business analyst.
He looked around the world and he applied for the Bachelor of
Professional Business Analysis at Victoria University here in
New Zealand. He was accepted, he completed
his degree and later he finished his master's in business
analysis. Ash currently works for Surety
Consulting as a Business Analyst consultant, and his latest gig
or his project that he's on at the moment is where he is
required to be both a business analyst and a data analyst.
So we're going to get into that today and it's lovely to have
you here, Ash. Welcome to the show.
Thanks, Ben. Thank you for the opportunity.
Yeah, feels good. So, Ash, you've got an
interesting career, obviously born in India and you've made
your way to New Zealand. Maybe you could tell us a bit
about your background? Yeah, sure.
Where do I start? I mean, I think I've been in
quite a few industries as you mentioned.
It took me some time before I got to.
Where I am and what I'm doing right now, I started off as you
mentioned, doing a Bachelors in Visual Communication.
So that's more of into the IT was, yeah, it was an interesting
degree As such. It touched on the surface of a
lot of topics, more around media itself, but the things which
really. Appealed to me from that was
graphic designing and content writing.
That's where I quickly found out where my passion lies.
And also that is where I found that I was pretty keen on the
aspect of paying attention to detail as well.
Not only from a design perspective but also from a
content perspective as well. So finished up the degree, I
moved to Dubai. I got my first role as
advertisement controller for a publication called Gulf News,
and I spent about five years in that company.
It was more around building ads, proofreading ads, making sure
that they are compliant with different industry standards and
government standards. But for some reason all my peers
and all my managers saw that spark in me in terms of client
relationships and client engagement.
So that's where I thought, OK, it's probably a good turn to
move to a role which was more customer facing.
So that's when I got into client servicing as a role and I had, I
had a really good opportunity to work for a company called EMAR.
They are the property constructors, so they
essentially own the Dubai Mall and the Burj.
Khalifa, yeah. So I was basically working as a
client servicing executive for some time for a particular
entertainment attraction of this.
It was a company called Kidzania where they kind of it was a
role-playing activity which we provided for kids, where they
kind of learn what it is to go out into the real world.
And we tried to mimic kind of activities that they would
really need to do in the future and instill those values in them
as well, giving them knowledge about what does it mean to have.
Kind of a career or a job or a skill set and the importance of
education as well and how you can actually achieve those
things. So from client servicing, I
moved into the sponsorship space wherein I was in charge of
bringing in clients who could provide that facility to the
kids. So that was an interesting space
as well and combining that experience with publication.
Experience. I kind of moved into an account
management role where I started looking at selling ads for a
magazine that was print and digital.
So it kind of gave me a good understanding in terms of how to
manage people. A lot of things, a lot of
things. Did you from that, Yeah.
So you were kind of on this journey, if you like.
Working out what you what you wanted to achieve which is very
very common for a lot of Bas. They don't a lot of them don't
necessarily start in the business analysis space.
Even myself who may have had a bit more of a structured career
from working out it you know I went to did sound engineering or
you know I traveled the world OK.
So you're finding yourself in Dubai.
You've done quite a lot of, quite a lot of stuff.
I. Did a lot of stuff.
And then I thought, okay, yes, go ahead it was.
Time. And then I decided, yes, it's
time to actually take a completely change.
I wanted to move places as well and it so happened that
Wellington in New Zealand came up as an option and that's when
I heard about. Career in business analysis is
an opportunity and that kind of was a perfect fit for me because
it encapsulated all the skill sets that I had learnt or where
I had experience in. And that's when I decided to
move to New Zealand. A friend of mine, his wife, had
completed the course from Victoria University some time
before. And she recommended the place
and I moved here, completed the Masters and the rest was
history, I would guess. But New Zealand has been really
kind to me. A lot of opportunities.
It was hard, it was difficult finding your feet within the
industry because Master A Masters does give you that foot
in the door. But it is a bit difficult.
It definitely is. Difficult to get into it.
So yeah, let me, let me let me ask you that question.
So you've got yourself to New Zealand.
You've had you've had a lot of experience actually quite in a
corporate environment quite you know high level roles would be
like or at least middle management roles quite a lot of
exposure. So confidence when dealing with
clients and after a lot of people who are who aren't, who
weren't born in New Zealand or even want to, you know I guess
more of the Western countries if you like, who will, will, will
listen to this podcast and have interest about how you firstly
were able to even get into New Zealand or or Australia.
Not that we're special, but that there is you know a visa process
there. So I think a lot of people will
be encouraged to hear what they've heard.
And I guess your your, your story wasn't just you know work
in a contact center you know staying there you went to do
what you've done a few things which would have helped.
So tell me, I guess I've got two questions there.
One is, why do you think that you were easily accepted into
New Zealand in the 1st place? And then secondly, with the
Masters program, how did you get into that?
And then we'll talk about how that might have helped you next
to. Address the first question.
It wasn't an easy journey getting to New Zealand.
To be honest. I had to do a lot of research as
well. It was trying to gauge which is
the best location. 1st, to move to because I wanted to move to a
place where and I could call it my home in the future.
That was a long term goal for me, and not only that, the only
institute where I would say that specializes in business
analysis. Was only offered through
Victoria University, so that became an easy choice for me in
terms of narrowing down the country and the region that I
wanted to stay in and considering the experience that
I had, which came from a design background and from a
communication background and client management as well, that
helped it. Helped me really easily
transition into the role of a business analysis, business
analyst I would say. So that was that was the main
driver and what facilitated me as well.
So just to clarify, you came in on a student visa?
Yes, yes. OK, cool.
So. I came in on a student visa
which offered me also a three-year work.
Visa post completion. So that was one of the perks of
also choosing New Zealand as a country because any other part
of the world like Australia or Canada, they don't have that
three-year facility for a work visa.
And and also when I mentioned in terms of specialization in
business analysis, I don't think that any any other university
provides that it is, it's probably a supplementary.
Course or kind of a major as part of our information
technology degree or something? Like that, so that was.
One of the biggest, yeah, that's interesting.
I mean, obviously I went to university a long time before
you. I'm a little bit older than you,
Ash, but I just slightly. But when I went to Waikato, you
know, which is known as a computer science hub in New
Zealand and internationally, very much focused more on the
programming side. There was not a specialization
in terms of business analysis at all.
In some ways the management of school had more of a focus on
business, you know analyzing business if you like.
So that was interesting. So yeah, there's.
So I think we've asked the time 1:00 you got through, you chose
New Zealand for the right reasons.
You've also got your work. You've now got your into your
place in terms of, in terms of the University of Wellington and
back. And then you've also got the
idea that you know that when if you finished a degree, you've
got three years of work, which was what was one of the
attracting factor, which is great because then you can prove
yourself right And then and then you know that you can apply for
a permanent residency after that, which would have been
attractive. And you've now, yeah, you've
actually found that there's not many even in the world.
There's not many places where you can specialize.
In business analysis. So that's quite surprising,
right? And that's quite amazing for
our, for me and our field that that doesn't exist.
OK, cool. So you've you land, you're going
straight into your master's degree.
And did you Were you originally a bachelor's moving to master's,
or did you sign up for the master's program straight away?
No, I finished my bachelor's, which was a three-year course,
and then it was actually a gap of 10 years before I decided I
should study. Further.
So I finished up my bachelor's back in 2008, and I did my
master's in 2019, so it was exactly 10 years later.
So. It was a big step for me, but I
thought that was something necessary.
Yeah, cool. And did you, how do you, in
terms of your master's or your degree, that was, you know, from
a university, which is, like we said, is quite unusual.
How do you think that helped you in your career or even getting,
you know, your first BA job here in New Zealand?
I think there are pros and cons to that.
The best thing which came out of the Masters, I would say is
giving you that strong foundation in the skill and that
is the beauty of Victoria University as well and how they
actually designed the curriculum.
It touches on every single aspect what a business analyst
needs to know from a technical perspective and from a business
perspective as well. Though see either way, it all
depends upon you in terms of finding that space or that area
which you would really like to specialize in and then gaining
that experience. That's something which a Masters
doesn't give you. It gives you all the tools.
It gives you all the skill sets that you need to get your feet
running. Yes, just like any other course.
And the beauty about Victoria is, well, it gives you that
opportunity to work hands on. With.
Some of the industry players as well and I had got that fabulous
chance to actually work with certain organizations in New
Zealand as part of the course itself.
So I did my internship with New Zealand Stock Exchange which was
a really good learning experience and.
There were other organizations also which we touched upon like
TEC. There was one which I really
liked to Transparent Dog, the beer company.
So it was interesting, but that's the beauty of the course
as well. The management go out of the way
in terms of finding you something which can actually
give you that hands on training. And that is something which is
really good with Victoria University, Yeah.
No, Yeah. So I would have to say that
that's fantastic to hear. And I think as we've, as we talk
about often, you know it's the devil is in the detail once
you're working, you start to apply these skills.
So it's really hard to apply some of the things.
To the health. And that's the other side of
doing a masters as well, because once your foundation is strong.
See, what I've realized is as a business analyst, once you have
a masters, it gives you that foot on the door.
It gives you a strong foundation, but it doesn't count
for the experience as well. The experience is something that
you need to gain on the job, and at times, once you fill your
basket with so many things that you can do or how you can
approach things, it's up to the individual to know which.
Tool to actually take out of his box, to apply for the situation
and that's where it goes back to that individual and how you can
gauge a situation and how you know what is best for the
problem at hand. So that is something which I
don't think any any degree can teach you.
That's that's something which comes with experience and as
much as experience that I've come from different backgrounds.
And yes, it helps me with my current job, but.
As a business analyst, I'm not new, but at the same time I'm
there, I'm somewhere intermediate as I would say
intermediate to senior. The only reason which is
stopping me from becoming a senior or anything is having
that what you would say, that presence of mine.
And knowing exactly how to react to different situations.
And it goes back to what I was saying in terms of sometimes if
you have too many options, then you might get stuck in terms of
which option do you go with. And that can become a
contradiction. Yeah, no, I completely agree.
I think that that's well said. I mean I'm going to clarify
something with you from my perspective and I'm going to
talk about I guess a little bit about the bit of business
Analysis Institute and how we've tried to address what you've
just talked about there. I think it's really good.
I mean I've heard great things from yourself.
You know, I've seen it advertised in terms of the
degree. It definitely sounds like there
was value at the Vic degree and how they've approached the
curriculum which is modern day. So I think that's fantastic.
One thing I want to clarify is you call yourself an
intermediate BA. What I would say, knowing that
you know we worked together in the past is you are actually a
senior business analyst if you were out in the market.
So for listeners, you're looking for a beer at some point.
ASH is definitely a senior business analyst and we'll talk
about this in a minute. However, Ash works in a
consultancy company and I would say that consultancy business
analysis is more difficult than permanent business analysis.
That's that well might get a whole lot of messages from us.
You're working for a consultancy.
You have to understand each client.
You have to rapidly understand what's going on.
It's a little bit like contract business analysis.
So Ash, just so you know, I do consider yourself a senior
business analyst in market terms, yes, 100%.
And the other aspect, I think just coming through here and
I'll ask you how you think this relates.
So you've got your degree, you've done some work experience
through internship, which is fantastic.
And like we talked about, you talked about the New Zealand
Stock Exchange, NZX Para Dog, which happens to be a brewery,
which I can understand you love your craft beer.
And then the other option was TC, which is actually our
Tertiary Education Commission here in New Zealand which funds
our universities and polytechnics In terms of what
we've tried to do in the Better Business Analysis Institute is 1
can dense that knowledge in terms of its backbone in terms
of a six weeks, you know well level one, level 2, Level 3, but
level one course in terms of six weeks.
But also I think what's important is what tool do you
take out of your toolbox. You've just mentioned that and
and and and and I think there's a lot of Bas who are probably
listening going of maybe the I IBA certified, maybe they've got
a degree, they what do I use, what phase am I in in the
project and what tool do I use? Is that kind of, am I, am I kind
of picking up what you're putting down here?
Is that? What you're talking about,
absolutely. Because at different stages of a
project life cycle, there are different tools that you're
being taught as as an analyst in order to best address the
situation at hand. And there are multiple ways.
There's no right way. There's no wrong way.
And you can also use a hybrid of different approaches as well,
but knowing when to use it, how to use it, and especially
knowing when to do pull back if you know that something you've
tried and it's not working. I think, yeah.
That that that is what stands you apart from the rest, and
that comes with experience, but that also comes with having a
good presence of mind as well. You need to.
You need to as they say you need to read your.
Audience, Yes, it goes to the same way as well.
In terms of when you're trying to implement something, try to
see how it's going. If it's not working, don't feel
safe. Scared to say that.
No it's not. Let's let's try something.
The sooner you do that, the better it is in terms of what
you're trying to deliver. Yeah, I think that's really good
advice. I mean, one of the things that I
think we've talked about maybe through some coaching sessions
is step back. So you you talk about presence
of mind, so you're in the environment, use presence of
mind, you know, focus on what you're doing, which I think is
great advice. And then I think I'm an
extension of that for me and I'm not very good at Peace of Mind
by the way. But one of the things I am good
at is stepping back. And I think when people say step
back, not not necessarily step back for breath, which is also
good mental health wise, but step up from whatever you're
doing as a BA, you never have. You never.
You'll never fail if you step. Up.
In terms of the organizational structure closer to your actual
ultimate end client, either being the customer, external
customer or your ultimate business, you know, business
organization, so OK, cool, so, so, so right now in terms of
your world, you're you're a consultant moving into a senior
consultant. And the piece of work that
you're working on now is for a large New Zealand client and you
happen to be working in the data analysis space.
Would that be fair? To say okay, So what?
How do you? Define it.
How do you define what you're working on right now?
It's a tricky one, yeah. And I mean.
The thing that I would say is tricky about the project that
I'm working on is I'm basically shuffling between the business
architect and the solution architect within the data space.
So as a business analyst, from a business perspective, you're
looking at requirements, you're looking at different aspects of
data. Yes, you go into the of the
data, but from a technical perspective and you're working
with solution architect, that's more of going into the technical
side of how do you actually build your database or how do
you actually so. You're in a hybrid situation of
kind of BA hat as well as DA, yeah.
So data analytics or data analytics?
Role can be split up, right? And we've talked about this,
I've talked about this for some team members.
So one, you've got the consumption of data, so how you
would consume the data in order to meet business requirements,
is that right? And then the other one is
actually processing the data and how we're going to actually
engineer the data in a technical way to get out what we want.
Is that fair? Yeah, absolutely.
How, how? How are you actually gonna?
What is the data that you need? How are you going to get it?
How is it going to be ingested into a database?
What type of a database that you think is suitable for the
organization? So all those decisions also you
need to keep in mind and that's where actually it goes back to
what I was saying in terms of a business analyst and the
education that you get, you get the foundations, you know you
have a strong footing in terms of.
Having that overall picture, having that overall
understanding, it just boils down to you as an individual and
how far do you want to actually step forward and go right?
Cuz you're not bound to know everything.
Nobody's bound to know everything.
And. But you never do, right?
That's part of our as most projects no matter what.
Even I get nervous now I've done the maybe the I know what the
gig's gonna involve. And you just don't know.
It's if the people are different, even if the processes
are fundamentally the same that biggerly called something
different, you know you don't and usually the context is
slightly different or at least the data is different.
So therefore, yeah, so, so I think the unknown, the known
unknowns or the puzzle because it is puzzle piece is, is just
what BA is about and that's OK. Absolutely.
And being a BA, I think you need to be open to that.
You have to have that mindset wherein you're going into
something which is gonna be completely ambiguous, and how do
you actually manage through that?
And you need to be confident as an individual, and you need to
believe in yourself as well, because if not, then this is the
wrong kind of career path for you.
If you don't think of it in that way, yeah.
No, I think a good analogy that I use often is.
You're driving down the street, so imagine a street, right?
Maybe it's a barren street at night, and there's mist.
You you can you can take two approaches.
You you don't know what's ahead, so you can slow right down
toward crawling pace, and the world will become clearer to you
as you move forward. Or you can drive at a safe pace,
so a little bit faster. Just expect that you're ready
for the unknown. And I think a BA needs to
operate in that the speed needs to still be there or not
necessarily at the full degree. And you just need to accept that
you just don't know what's next. And then as you move closer, the
mist clears as you move forward. And I think that is probably a
good analogy for what we deal with and that never goes away.
Absolutely, as part of your your education or learning as well
you. There's something called the
VUCA framework which you go through which kind of helps you
assess different situations and how to react to different types
of environments, but that is something that you can apply to
your personal self as well to see.
How exactly? You are saying that?
Yeah, explain that to me. So the VUCA it's something which
is your vulnerability, different, accountable it's.
You put me on the spot right now.
And that's OK. I'm not gonna give you a quiz,
but it's something for people to work at.
How do you say the framework? And I'll get.
So it's called the VUCA framework.
It's basically, yeah, VUCA. So it's different ways of
actually assessing a different type of an environment.
So that's something that you're being.
Volatility. And volatility.
There you go. Not vulnerability.
Yeah, ambiguity. That's the one.
That's the one, yeah. So that's something that you can
apply to your individual self at any given time as well, because
you're put into situations wherein from a project
perspective or from a role perspective, you're trying to
gauge things from different levels.
But sometimes, as you were saying, you also need to step
back and actually assess yourself.
Also in terms of how are you planning to address certain
things which are part of your project, How are you evaluating
yourself also? That is very critical, I think,
as an individual and as a professional also.
Yeah. No, I completely agree.
I think you're right. And I think those factors there
are very, very important to review.
So let's flip back into the fact that you've got these two roles.
What do you think is the difference between the data
analysis space that you're having to do at the moment and
the business analysis? What do you think the
differences? I think there's not much of a
difference. It's when you get completely
technical. So that's where it stands out
from a business. Business focused data analyst,
you're basically doing more of the background, the design work
you're looking at doing a lot of you're not delivering a product.
So the delivery happens by the technical PA, whereas all the
kind of discovery that happens from a business side of a data
analyst and that is where most of my time is going under the
discovery side of things. Whereas having working close or
rather working closely with the solution architect is giving me
that level of kind of experience from the solutionizing aspect of
a data analyst as well. Because that's where it kind of
gets a little bit technical because depending on the way
that the reports or the way that data is going to be delivered
and consumed by the business. There's a little bit of
experience or expertise that you need from a technical side of
things. And.
That is where though I have that knowledge, though I come with
the background around that it's. Always a new It's always new.
Something ambiguous is already always coming up and you're
always volatile, right? It goes back to that framework
as well, so you need to assess yourself.
Also step back and assess things.
If you don't know what is happening in a situation, always
ask. That's the first place to go or
also just take a just step back and see how exactly things are
happening. But the key difference is, as a
business analyst in the data space, you can either be in the
discovery part of things or you can be in the delivery part of
things. And.
Both are completely different skill sets that would come into
play. Cool.
So when we talk about the delivery side.
Which I would consider not business analysis.
So for me that's where the where you drop off not the Cliff but
you drop into a new role you you you that's for.
So I think you're right. I think there is a whole of
business data analysis slash BA work business data analysis
which is the how datas could be consumed and used and that's
where I draw the line and then the rest production.
For me that is that's that's a technical role.
That's a different. Mindset and actually you'd be
stronger if you knew more about the tools.
The latest technology, data science for example, would be
where you should start. And do you agree with that in
terms of the viewers starting A? Game, Yeah, absolutely.
And yeah, good. Yeah, cool.
Now just a question about that, the delivery side, even though
that's another job role if you like.
This you said you're working closely with the solution
architect and I've got a lot of architect friends.
You know some that some it's quite interesting working with
architect. Sometimes you can battle with
them. There should always be tension
with an architect because they want to design the perfect
solution. And you as a BA defining the
requirements and not necessarily looking for perfection.
You're looking for the outcome, right?
Not necessarily a shiny piece of term now.
I've done a lot of work back in the day, Systems analysis which
is where BA first came about and Systems Analysis is now split
between business analysis and also solution architecture.
Do you think that the delivery side of data analysis is a sub
function of solution architecture?
It's just the grunt work behind it.
I think the solution architectures.
Ends at very high level, right? So you're.
Saying it's the low level version.
Of I would say the low level is where actually the BA would get
involved in, but in order for a solution architect to have that
high level view, he has to be completely informed from the
discovery side of things. So that's where a business
analyst branches between everything.
OK. Cool.
I'm gonna hold you there. So we've got our Discovery BA,
which you're doing BA work. Feeding into a solution
architect Completely agree. And a project manager is the
three amigo model. But the grunt work under the
solution, which is do you that role we're talking about?
Sometimes people call it a technical BA role, yeah,
sometimes they call it a systems analyst, sometimes they call it
maybe a specialist data science. Do you consider that just the
the grunt work that the architect doesn't want to do?
Or it's not their role because they are high paid professional
at the high level? I mean.
See, it depends upon what you've been contracted to do or what
what you're you're being given to do.
But I think the more that the solution architect gets into
that level of detail, the better informed he is or he or she is
in terms of solutionizing something he needs, he or she
needs to have that level of detail to make an informed
decision. And that's where I think.
The BA plays a really big role because thats the BAS
responsibility to communicate that across correctly to those
concerned. Its getting the right level of
information from the business and communicating that to the
solution architects so that he can make decisions based off
what is required, needed and not what is wanted or what he or she
thinks is ideal for. For the business.
Yeah, I'm pushing you there because it's an interesting
space is that for me, I feel like it's it's the unknown
factor about who who plays that role, who does the lower level.
It's actually solutionizing for me, it's solution.
Because for example, let's take a really, really, really common
example. You've got two systems and you
want to take, let's just say someone's name, maybe it's in a
full name field. So let's.
Right. So Ben Walsh, and you're moving
that to a new system, let's not worry about how it's moved,
maybe through APIs And the other, the system you're moving
it to has a first name and a last name field, Okay.
So you know there needs to be data transformation done and you
have to map those fields, correct.
And you can challenge me here, The business doesn't care how
that's done. Yep.
The business just wants first name here and they actually
want, sorry, full name here. They may even want full name
here. But you know that the database
only accepts first name, last name, so you have to get it in
there. For me, that's part of the
solution Solutionizer. That's the solution that you're
putting in place. Yep.
Is it the Ba's responsibility? I'll put you on the spot to
provide that mapping and the pseudo code for transformation.
Or is it the solution architect and the delivery teams?
I would say it's definitely the business analyst's
responsibility to actually provide that level of
information. Wow, OK, that's what we might
disagree. So for me that requires
technical expertise and that's not value for the business.
That is, well, it is valuable because it's working.
But for me that means you require a specialist skill in
order to do that, and how you do that depends on the solution.
And therefore the BA is not is not is too focused of the
solution. It's quite interesting, that's,
yeah. So probably it's worth
clarifying when I said it's a responsibility of the BA, it's a
responsibility of the BA to define how that happens.
It's only the business who knows what level of transformation or
what business logic is required. But they don't.
The business doesn't know. So the business has no idea that
the solution is going to split into the database first name and
last name. They don't care because they are
at the user interface level, They just see a full name field.
So why does that? The business doesn't understand
how that performs. And this is this ambiguity
phase, which for me is where Ba's need to step back and say,
actually we don't do that. What we do is we are focused on
what the business wants and on their wants and their needs to
deliver a solution. And for me personally and what
would I, you know, push for in the Better Business Analysis
Institute as we draw a line there and we said we don't do
that. So what are your feelings?
If I was drawing that line firstly, how would you feel if I
draw that line? Would that make you frustrated?
I know you can do it. That's whether or not you should
I. Would say.
In an environment where you have adequate amount of resources,
who can take that level of responsibility or have that
clear delineation and most and most projects come with that
resource capacity, so it is good to define that well in the
beginning. In terms of where you draw that
line, it shouldn't be a case that you get get into it
full-fledged. And then at some point down the
delivery stream, you realize that this is something that
needs to be delivered by a different resource and not by
you. So having those, that is where
project management comes into play.
This has to be well clearly defined at the start of a
project before you move into the delivery phase.
Yeah, Yeah. So I think you're getting to a
good point there. The reality is as with.
A gig on one which is not dissimilar to what you will
focus on at the moment. It usually falls to the BA
because there isn't anyone else. And you may have those skills,
but you may not, right? That's the thing.
It depends on the BA. Because if you're a business
focused BA, you may not understand database structures.
Or sorry, you might understand it at a conceptual level, but
you might not understand data mapping, yeah?
You know, really good. It's a really good debate.
Yeah, that's absolutely true. I mean, as an individual, you
also need to know exactly what your strengths and weaknesses
are and you need to communicate that across very clearly as well
so that it doesn't fall on you as an where you become
accountable for something. If you think that this is
something that you do not have the level of expertise, or if
you think that this is way ahead of you.
Terms of what you can deliver, you need to be plain and simple
about it right from the start. So you said that you ended up in
the situation you're having to do this lower level data
mapping, which is what I which many Bas will find themselves
because it will just be like have you done it or actually
it's expected even if you don't have those skills because it's
associated, what advice do you have for Bas in that situation?
So the Bas first. They're playing in the data
analysis space. They're having to do some of
this delivery work. What resources or skills,
websites or skills or tools do you think BI should get familiar
with, just in case they're in this situation?
See, I would say it's completely depend.
Having the general understanding in terms of how data mapping
works itself, that gives you a really good head start.
There are a lot of resources out.
Out there, that can help you do that.
But depending on the solution that you're going with, if it's
a specific solution, say if you're going with Power BI,
there are a lot of learning resources there and everything
can see. That's the thing.
That's the beauty about a skill. It can be taught, right.
It's different from a soft skill that is something managing
people, for example. That's something that cannot be
taught. You need to learn it.
You have to go through that. Whereas a skill is something
that can be learned. You just need to put in that
time and effort and have that kind of the mindset that you
want to learn. Because if you don't have that,
then it's not gonna be possible. In terms of resources, what are
the places that you can go? There are different places if
you're a visual person, I'm, I'm more of a visual person.
I like watching videos in terms of how things are done.
That helps me better keep myself better informed.
If there are some really critical things which I need
some more knowledge around of I don't find any visual kind of a
resource that can help me keep that informed.
Then I would look to read additional about things.
But I feel personally YouTube is a really good place to start as
well the heaps of resources out there which can help you keep
informed. So it just depends on find that
resource which helps you the way that you are able to grasp
things. Yeah.
I think one of the skills that we teach at the Better Business
Analysis Institute, which we say is actually part of our
framework, is a conceptual data model.
So understanding the concept, so you have a conceptual data model
and then under that you have the Physical model.
So you kind of have a logic, the logic behind it.
Logic I do think is the BA space.
So I think understanding what is a database table, even if the
solution isn't a database table, understanding that there's
something called a table with fields.
Which have values and that are displayed to the user that we
just talked about before the fact that fields can be joined
together concatenated. I would suggest that
understanding having advanced skills in Excel is always
helpful and exactly so I think. If you can use Excel with anger
and you understand the concepts of a data model or database,
relational database, don't worry about anything else.
Then you should be in a good space to be able to tackle the
basics of data analysis. Would be my two cents there.
Yeah, absolutely. I'll completely agree with you.
A fairly good knowledge about Excel is a really good starting
point for anything related to data, and that's something which
is easily accessible to every single person as well.
And then playing around, there's a lot of places where you can a
lot of websites which allow you to model databases, query
databases, relational databases, and I would recommend doing
that. SQL, basically SQL or different
languages, depending. If you have an inkling of
knowing where this project is going, what the solution is
going to look like, playing around with that.
There are so many places in on the Internet that you can go
where and you have models or mockups of those type of
solutions where you can just go play around with because that
gives you an understanding and you need to have that base
understanding of how things work.
Yes, conceptually, database, a relational database, What is the
table, what is the dimension, What is the fact table.
All that is good to know, but you also need to have that
understanding in terms of what makes a fact table, what are the
elements or what are the attributes, what is a
dimensional table. So all that when you from a
theoretical perspective that is one kind of a mindset or giving
you that base knowledge, but when you're actually applying
it, it can be completely different because you're
applying it to something which is very specific to an
organization or to a project. So you need to have that that
foundation very clear in terms of what what makes up those
those building, building blocks. Building blocks, Yeah yeah yeah.
I think that's a good way of describing it if you understand
the building blocks. And for me if you got to a
position where the complexity was beyond, I've got this this
tab in excel, this sheet which is a table and this is another
tab sheet in excel and this is a table and this is the data I
want in it. For me, that would be natural
progression to go. Hey, we may need to bring in an
actual data analyst to help us from this point.
Yep. And so they would understand how
it's used, how it's structured, how it's going to be reported
on, if you're getting down to DAX queries and Power BI.
You are. That is not something that you
can acquire in a couple of weeks.
It's something that requires a few.
You need to, you need to have a specialization in that area, and
it's always best for a BA to make that delineation, as you
said, once it moves into that highly technical space.
If you're not skilled enough to be accountable for that, make
sure you make it clear and let someone else do that.
Because if not, then yeah, it's not the right approach to go,
yeah. No.
But also as you're doing that, like you said, it's about time
and meanwhile your users don't know what's going on and you
should be spending time with them as a BA as opposed to down
in the database. Yeah, no, that's really
interesting. So Ash is I'm gonna just ask you
a couple of rapid fire questions before we wrap up today.
It's been a really good conversation.
What would you say is your least favorite thing about business
analysis? The least favorite aspect is.
He thinks. I know it's a very difficult
question, right? Because the only reason I got
into it because I like everything but the most gruesome
thing is I think trying to cope with ambiguity, if that is
something which is always gonna happen and you need to get
accustomed to it. Yeah.
And what would you think your most favorite part of BA is?
I think engaging with users? I do quite enjoy that.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think that's pretty common now.
Two other questions not related to BA.
What is your favorite song of all time?
Ooh, there are so many. The one song, the one song which
will always be my top favorite, is it's called An American Dream
by the Nitty Gritty Dirt brand. Nice.
Yeah.
So I grew up. I grew up listening to that
song, and that'll always be one of my favorites, yeah.
And finally, your favorite movie.
Ooh, my favorite movie. I would go with Pat Adams.
Nice. Thank you very much, Ash.
That's been a really great conversation.
Hopefully those listening, you know there's different
perspectives. We've talked about the idea of a
degree, you know, what they gave to you, the idea of your journey
to get to New Zealand from, you know.
Immigrating here. And then also finally just
talking about BA and outer space and they'll debate around how
far do you go as BA and when is it appropriate for you to, you
know, call in for some some specialized help.
Thank you, Ash. Thank you so much, Ben, as well
for the opportunity. Yeah.
Thank you. I'll speak to you soon.
Bye. Bye.