1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,960 The Better Business Analysis Institute Presence. 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:13,040 The Better Business Analysis Podcast with Kenjan Walsh Hi 3 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:15,840 everybody and welcome back to the Better Business Analysis 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,560 Podcast with Benjamin Walsh. And today we are going to talk 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:23,200 about why business analysts should use personas. 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:28,200 Personas are such an important element in business analysis 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,159 when you've truly got the time to understand the customer's 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,120 needs, your target customer, we'll talk about that in a 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,040 minute. And when you're truly value 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,640 whether or not whatever change you are performing or whatever 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,440 project you're carrying out or product you're releasing is 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:47,680 actually going to make a difference. 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,520 So personas are actually help join a little bit of the reality 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,920 of your customer base into some kind of fictional characters. 15 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,520 So if you don't know what a persona is, I'll start with what 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:06,360 a persona is and why you would like to use them or why you 17 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,160 should be using them. So persona really is a detailed 18 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,920 semi fictional so it does have facts associated with it. 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,720 It is a representation of a segment of the market and 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,320 marketing personas are used heavily for marketing and in the 21 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:26,920 world of business analysis, we leverage that concept. 22 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,320 We do things slightly different to marketers, but it's 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,040 ultimately has the same outcome. Marketers are wanting to sell 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,640 more basically people engaging with products and using the 25 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,480 product and it's ultimately what we want to achieve. 26 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,280 So personas are semi fictional representations of the target 27 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:51,040 audience for the product. Your target audience is really 28 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:56,560 everyone OK and marketers can get quite hung up on that, 29 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,800 especially if you have a large audience, you're going after 30 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,320 some mass market. I worked at a government 31 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,199 department which was releasing a strategy and a set of tools for 32 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:11,920 a large segment. And marketers really struggled 33 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:15,480 with that to a point where they didn't believe or struggled with 34 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,160 the amount of personas we had. But we simply were just looking 35 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,440 at a large customer base, which was pretty much a lot of people 36 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,160 in New Zealand. And the only response that I 37 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,600 could really come up with at the time, and I still think it's 38 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,240 relevant is they were our own personas. 39 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,720 However, some of them were a priority list. 40 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,720 We're more of our target customer right now, OK? 41 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,240 And our and our project should have really focused on those 42 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:45,840 sets of personas. To start off with. 43 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:52,440 Personas encapsulate specific customer segment 44 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,280 characteristics. If you don't know what a 45 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,240 customer segment is, it is you. Your customers are made of 46 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,800 segments like a pie, like a cake, you chop it up, that's who 47 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,480 you're targeting. It's that type of cake which has 48 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,080 different customers in it and there's different segments 49 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,120 percentages. The percentage make up of your 50 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,520 customer base can be represented by the customer segment and a 51 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,600 persona. They these segments have 52 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,080 characteristics, needs, motivations and behaviours. 53 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,920 So these are really important. The need, what do they want, 54 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,400 what are the goals, what is the job that they want to complete? 55 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,120 It's a job to be done, is another word of saying that what 56 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,800 are their motivations are usually caused by pain. 57 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,680 So pain points or problem statements, and what are the 58 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,680 behaviours, how do they act? And so needs, motivations and 59 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,680 behaviours are very much core to our custom segments. 60 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,920 Sometimes characteristics around our persona become overwhelming. 61 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,440 People start going well, you know, they're between the ages 62 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,800 of 18 and 24. They're most likely to be 63 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,720 European descent. They might have blonde hair. 64 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,880 You know, like you get to a point where the characteristics 65 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:13,520 are just too too much. And actually you're moving away 66 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:18,120 from grouping your customers into needs, motivations and 67 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,399 behaviors which are more important than some of the 68 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:23,120 demographic information I just read out earlier. 69 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,080 Demographics can make a difference, especially location 70 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,400 or those demographics influence behavior because of tradition or 71 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:35,040 where people live or you know, studies on, you know, if you're 72 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,200 male or female, for example, or just take those two genders. 73 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,040 There might be certain behaviors that you know if you're a 74 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,880 generalized behaviors that a male might make over a female, 75 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,640 for example. So characteristics only help 76 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,800 make generalizations, but really they inform. 77 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,800 If they don't inform needs, motivations or behaviors, then 78 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:00,360 they're not that important. OK, an example where you're 79 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:07,200 selling to pregnant woman or woman who are either just had a 80 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:12,920 baby or are currently pregnant, then those characteristics will 81 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,040 will be important as a broad statement. 82 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:21,760 And then within those that set, you could divide your segments 83 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,400 into different needs, motivations, behaviors. 84 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:29,960 So those who are really wanting to prep for the expecting baby 85 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,320 to those who are worried about health concerns. 86 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:41,280 So motivation might be more nurturing, one might be just 87 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:45,600 more preparation and factual. So there there are those kind of 88 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,000 motivation needs and behaviors are more important that and 89 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,040 obviously you've already identified that your greatest 90 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:56,680 segment is your target customer is is pregnant woman or woman 91 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:03,240 with very young children. So why why personas useful 92 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,280 persona as a business analyst, I guess using personas helps 93 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:14,040 understand, helps make real who our stakeholders are. 94 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,920 OK, So it's understanding our our key stakeholders. 95 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,920 Now in a corporation or a large organization, you can start you 96 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,280 may you you can use personas. There's no reason why you can't 97 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,800 for internal and external staff. I've recently just done a piece 98 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,400 of work where I did a workshop yesterday actually, where we 99 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,920 were designing the different audiences of information and 100 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,720 some of those personas were both internal and they were external 101 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,760 and they all just have different needs and motivation. 102 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,680 So that is OK. There's no problem with that. 103 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:52,000 It makes it kind of. I guess the only caveat I'd say 104 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,360 there is that you why are you doing the personas in the 1st 105 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:56,960 place? If your target audience is 106 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,960 external customers, you should be doing it. 107 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,560 You should be focusing on external customers if you want. 108 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,120 If you happen to have internal customers, then that's OK too. 109 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,840 But you're not just doing it for anyone who's involved in the 110 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:10,360 project. I just want to make that clear. 111 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,920 It's not one to one with stakeholder management within a 112 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,440 project. Personas go beyond the 113 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,920 demographics as we talked about providing those goals, pain 114 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,080 points, and preferences which align with needs, motivation, 115 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,000 and behaviors. Right, They're all preferences. 116 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,960 Behaviors are interlinked. Pain points and motivations, 117 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,240 Goals and needs. We're creating vivid characters 118 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,440 here. OK, so and it will enforces us, 119 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,680 actually enforces us using this technique and enforces us to 120 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,440 gain a deeper understanding of who we're actually targeting. 121 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:50,800 And I have said that when I have applied personas to projects, 122 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,520 don't do it all the time. And you know it's not something 123 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,120 that I I do religiously. But in a situation, especially 124 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,560 when I'm targeting an external customer, it's very, very 125 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,560 important. And by by by defining these, 126 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,400 it's not a tick box exercise. It's not just a fun cultural 127 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,840 exercise. And you do get, you do get value 128 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:15,680 from having, you know, pictures of your customer on the I think 129 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,240 that's really important in itself, just having an idea of 130 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,840 who your customer is. If you work for a Ministry of 131 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,520 Education, education ministry, having representations of the 132 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,480 different types of segments or school kids that are out there 133 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,960 knowing about them, talking about them through a persona, 134 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,039 not, you know, real representations, representations 135 00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:42,919 of necessary individuals but they could represent a 136 00:08:42,919 --> 00:08:45,840 population. But generally these are they're 137 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,920 they're anonymized. So they're they're not using 138 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:52,160 actual people but they're representations of it might be 139 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,000 really useful to be reminded that you know that's the that's 140 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,760 the person that I'm trying to help here on a daily basis 141 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,280 regardless of the change that you don't just a motivation that 142 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,680 I'm working for this organization, working for a 143 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:06,280 government department generally being paid less and these are 144 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:07,800 all the type of people that are trying to help. 145 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,080 And my work, even though I might work on the service desk, that's 146 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:16,320 I'm here to support little Tammy who is a disadvantaged child 147 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,720 who's going to school in the regions, possibly, right. 148 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,240 Cool. So it's really around providing 149 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:24,840 A deeper understanding of who we're targeting. 150 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,520 That's the purpose of personas. But they can also help us with 151 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:34,440 prioritization where we invest effort and ultimately guiding 152 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,480 our decisions it. It actually helps us make more 153 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:46,080 informed decision because it allows us to put out what we, 154 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,840 what we might say is to put ourselves in the customer's 155 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,600 shoes. It allows us to step into the 156 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,080 shoes and say, what would a customer want here? 157 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,400 Not what we want. What would be easier for us? 158 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,680 What do we think is the best solution? 159 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,680 But actually what is best for that customer? 160 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:05,880 OK, we understand their needs, their desires and aspirations 161 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,600 and challenges, and we get to make informed decisions based on 162 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,320 those insights. OK, deep insights into customer 163 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,160 behaviour patterns. And you do get into psychology 164 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,800 here. You start to actually go, well, 165 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,000 what would change that person's behaviour? 166 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,560 If that's who we're targeting and that's who we want to use 167 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:27,200 our product, for example, What is it about their behaviour that 168 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:32,160 we need to know about and how will that change what our 169 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:33,960 product does or how we market it. 170 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,360 So we are talking about tailing our product. 171 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:43,120 If it is a product or a service to make sure that it's tailored 172 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,480 the content, marketers use it to tailor content specifically to 173 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,520 move a behavior. They're experts in that customer 174 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,800 support. I guess we can work out, is this 175 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,640 customer going to benefit from from from this change we're 176 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,520 making. It allows us to measure whether 177 00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:09,200 or not our solutions are going to resonate with our audience. 178 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,080 On a personal level, if we've got our personas right, we'll 179 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,640 talk about how to get our personas right soon. 180 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:21,280 And in terms of the general idea about thinking about your 181 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:26,040 customers, it changes us to a customer centric model. 182 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,880 OK, instantly. Sometimes people will 183 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,080 interchange the word user to customer. 184 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:38,080 I prefer customer centric here. Users usually associated with 185 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:43,200 internal stuff. Personas by themselves foster 186 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,080 empathy. And if you're a great BA or 187 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,280 you're a designer, especially if you're a human centered 188 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,920 designer, then you'll know all about personas and you will know 189 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,360 all about empathy and empathy mapping. 190 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,000 And to be honest, most of the great Basi know have a high 191 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:04,200 level of empathy for the world. It allows you to to understand 192 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,920 your customers deeply and you design solutions you actually go 193 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:13,080 into bat for them sometimes, like on the in the boardroom. 194 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,320 That and you're you're influencing solutions or 195 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,400 products or even the direction of the company to truly meet the 196 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:21,920 needs of your customer, which is win. 197 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,080 Win. Because ultimately, if your 198 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:24,520 customers are happy, they'll buy more. 199 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,000 But it's hard to get that across sometimes, mark marketers will 200 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,720 use personas to target their marketing strategy. 201 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:33,960 So it's useful if you've done it. 202 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,920 Not that I've done it at the end of the line, after your 203 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,560 product's developed their messaging features, interactions 204 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:44,240 align with what's valuable to your personas. 205 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,040 So that's really important too. So really, we should be defining 206 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,600 these before it gets to your marketing team. 207 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:52,640 Or you could utilize marketing resources to help you define 208 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,080 these upfront and for them. They may know about your 209 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,240 existing customer base quite well and they might have a lot 210 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,840 of information. We can use personas to 211 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:08,720 prioritize features or I guess user stories and the apex that 212 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,120 we want to focus on. That's it. 213 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,040 Allows us to focus on what made us most to our target audience. 214 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,160 In an agile situation where you're releasing a product, that 215 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,320 might be the that might be your driver. 216 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,000 So the product owner should be looking at what's most important 217 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,400 to your target audience all the time, and may only be making 218 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,520 decisions around other requirements or user stories 219 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,400 that will be done because they logically need to fit in order 220 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,720 to enable the customer to complete their job the customer 221 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,880 hasn't explicitly asked for. It allows us also to avoid 222 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,240 assumptions. Personas prevent, I guess 223 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,640 predicting individual biased on solutions. 224 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,960 That happens way more than you may guess. 225 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,760 It happens all the time, either at the management level or the 226 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:56,640 architecture level, even in the BA level. 227 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:02,280 Sometimes we are basing our decisions and we need this to to 228 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,960 drive true personas based on real insights, not just 229 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,600 assumptions. And obviously doing all this 230 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:14,560 stuff helps facilitate common understanding, improved 231 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,080 communication across stakeholders. 232 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,000 When we can say, hey, look, is Little Tammy going to benefit 233 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,360 from this or we're not talking about it. 234 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,640 No, we're actively not focusing on Little Tammy for the Sprint 235 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,840 or the first product release. OK, cool. 236 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,560 Well, I'll stop thinking about that. 237 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,560 That really focuses we're focusing on on Jane and Ann and 238 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,440 those types of customers in this release. 239 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,760 I can see why we're doing what we're doing. 240 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,680 Everyone is speaking the same language. 241 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,000 You're breaking down silos across teams using personas, 242 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,680 which is fantastic. And because you can use personas 243 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,800 for different people outside of your even your development team, 244 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,200 marketing, development, support teams, they all have a unified 245 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,400 perspective on what you are focusing on and who you are 246 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,240 targeting. This should personas should 247 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,360 guide product design. It does. 248 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,640 Good product managers do this, BAS, not so much human centered 249 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,640 design designers do it quite a lot and sometimes do too much of 250 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,320 it, which we'll talk about soon. It's not all about your 251 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,720 personas, but ultimately we're there to try and create products 252 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,400 that add value. And this will allow us to focus 253 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,680 our attention on our target customers, representations of 254 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,720 them, measure success and reduce the risk of building stuff that 255 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,240 just misses the mark. OK. 256 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,520 So we're going to run through some examples now of what a 257 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,880 persona is and an example and we are then going to talk about a 258 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,880 template that you can use when you write your user stories. 259 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,880 We talk this talk about this often at the bit of Business 260 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,120 Analysis Institute. It's actually a template that we 261 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,080 use. So I'm going to give you, you 262 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,720 know, a secret if you haven't done our course yet, when we 263 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,080 write our user stories, instead of having as a user or as an 264 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:09,120 actor, you just replace the Aza and they are your personas. 265 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,120 OK, so straight away you've got a place to use personas, You've 266 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:17,520 worked out who your customers are and your personas align with 267 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,280 the Aza. OK, yes, you might have internal 268 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,600 customers. They can be represented by 269 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,480 personas. You might have your company 270 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:30,320 itself as AI. Don't know Fit Inc Limited. 271 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,520 If that's your fitness company you run, then that could be you 272 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,360 as a company, you could say as Fitness or Fit Limited Inc 273 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,240 Limited. I want to blah blah blah. 274 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:47,280 So that's your persona in there. And if you have some personas 275 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:52,600 that you've identified as part of your customer segments, which 276 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,440 we'll talk about examples in a minute, then you would use, you 277 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,040 would fit that into your story. And of course, epics are stories 278 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,200 as well. So your epics could will be 279 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,680 represented by one of those personas that you're talking 280 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:07,160 about. That's where you use them. 281 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:08,880 OK, so now you know where you use them. 282 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,760 And of course, if you have now inserted them there, then you've 283 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:18,480 you've got a practical way of prioritizing each user story 284 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:23,800 based on that persona's requirements. 285 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:30,960 So if your target customer is someone who I don't know once 286 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,440 like I said maybe as a a new mother they've just had a baby 287 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:35,880 that should that should take a customer. 288 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:41,000 The mothers, you mothers have just had babies and you've 289 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,840 worked out that your target customer is someone who is 290 00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:49,800 middle class, so has pretty good income, disposable income. 291 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,560 Someone who is buying for their baby, who's happy to spend money 292 00:17:54,560 --> 00:18:00,360 on both the safety of their child but also wants them to 293 00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:04,520 wear the finest things, let's say, OK, so that's your persona, 294 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,640 so that basically let's call them the, let's call them Jane 295 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:13,600 the overbuyer, potentially say that they are more than average, 296 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,440 they're over the normal distribution curve in terms of 297 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:20,040 providing for their new baby. They're going to go above and 298 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,000 beyond and by all the great stuff, OK? 299 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,240 And wants them to look good at the same time. 300 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,880 They may be, you know, in their early 30s and they just have the 301 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,840 income to be able to to support that outcome. 302 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,480 That's their motivation. They want people to see that 303 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,480 their babies are looked after. They want to have all the they 304 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,680 want the best for their child. They can afford to do that. 305 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,920 They want other people to see that they've invested in that 306 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,760 experience for their child and you know maybe they're in some 307 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,160 fashion and so they want their child to look good even as a 308 00:18:54,160 --> 00:19:00,200 baby to to be stylish as they are themselves. 309 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,680 So that's quite a I've just given you a a brief rundown on 310 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:09,800 this particular persona and if one of the must have 311 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,080 requirements for a new product for our new store maybe that is 312 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,920 catering for this target segment, it would, it would you 313 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,480 would have a must have requirement in there surely 314 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,440 around premium products. OK. 315 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,240 This persona if that's our target customer we'll work that 316 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,280 out with our lean canvas for example, that's who our main 317 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,120 target customer is. We wouldn't have a must 318 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:38,240 requirement around stocking low value or low cost goods that you 319 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:43,720 could get at say Kmart or what's the equivalent in America, 320 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:49,240 Walmart for example, that customer, they their 321 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,920 motivations, their beliefs and their desires and goals is to 322 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,240 buy premium products And so those they wouldn't, they 323 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,960 wouldn't be looking at, you wouldn't be looking at stocking 324 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,360 products, you could get at some of those cheapest stores. 325 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,600 So that gives you an idea of the thought process there and how 326 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,280 you'd prioritize the job to be done and. 327 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,000 How you it would influence your business model and what you what 328 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,400 you even buy in stock. It also can help with 329 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,920 estimating. I guess when we talk about the 330 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:23,200 persona in in regards to user stories and epics, it might help 331 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,720 help estimate the effort and cost that it takes to meet the 332 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,120 needs of that particular customer for those priority 333 00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:33,360 groups. And also the sequence in which 334 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,760 you tackle the particular user story. 335 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,560 What is the highest value items for your personas, not just 336 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:45,520 highest value items. OK, So what we're going to talk 337 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:52,720 about is some personas, some example personas here that 338 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,840 relate to a company, it's that's cool. 339 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:02,880 We're working for this Fitness Inc and we want to create a 340 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:08,160 product called Fit Pal, OK. It's a it's an app, it's an app, 341 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,480 we're going to, it's a fitness based app. 342 00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:14,160 I think this is a good example, and I'm going to give you an 343 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:19,320 example of three different personas here, which we can use 344 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,240 to think about and to demonstrate the use of personas. 345 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,160 So let's say that we have looked at our target customers and 346 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:34,360 we've identified in our target customer area, there are three 347 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:39,520 distinct segments who we want to target, and they're represented 348 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:45,680 by active Annie, busy Brian and Newbie Natalie. 349 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:52,840 I'm going to give you a rundown of those 3 personas in Active 350 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,800 Annie. I'm just going to give you 351 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:57,240 background goals and pain points here, OK? 352 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,600 The background, the goal and the pain point that they are that 353 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,560 Annie has. And of course you can expand 354 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,480 this out to some motivations and pain points. 355 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,000 Motivations are always good. But we'll we'll look at Active 356 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,600 Annie. So let's say the background for 357 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,920 Active Annie is she's 30 years old. 358 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:25,440 Her occupation is a PhD student. She lives in LA, in America, 359 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,720 California, and her fitness level is that she is an 360 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,960 enthusiastic runner and weightlifter. 361 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,240 OK, so think about those background attributes. 362 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,160 Don't they all give you an idea about who Active Annie is? 363 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,600 OK, fit When you're thinking about this Fit PAL app that 364 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,640 we're going to design this personal fitness app. 365 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,480 And we've decided we've done our background, we've done our Lane 366 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:54,040 canvas Active, Annie, really you can start to think about any 367 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,640 Robinson, this PhD student, you know, obviously obviously smart, 368 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:04,480 starting to be a doctor, which means income later living in LA, 369 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,560 which is very body conscious, Location, you know where 370 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,360 Hollywood's AT and the fitness level is really enthusiastic. 371 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,600 We are running and weightlifting. 372 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,560 Can't you imagine in your head if you close your eyes and 373 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,640 listen to that, listen to that description, Can't you imagine 374 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,960 who active any is? Can't you visualize active any 375 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,840 what you might look like now? Obviously your own backgrounds 376 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,240 and experiences and environment will influence what active any 377 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,800 looks like. And it doesn't matter what kind 378 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:41,720 of I guess I would say you know cultural connotations you have. 379 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,960 Whether or not active any is African American or someone 380 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,640 who's just you know a recent immigrant from Afghanistan or as 381 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:57,720 Asian descent or born in the US or whatever it does that does, 382 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,280 that's not important. But we can all imagine our 383 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,200 version of act of any in our head. 384 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,160 OK. And obviously if you had a image 385 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,160 that was associated with act of any, which is a good idea and 386 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,120 and you know you can use AI to generate these images now as 387 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:18,560 well you could you could target that specifically around the 388 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:20,880 environment that you live in, your target customer if that 389 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,200 really mattered. But I don't think some of those 390 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,680 demographics make much of a difference. 391 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,440 We know who active AI is and I head straight away now. 392 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,600 Now active AI has goals, motivations and pain points. 393 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:39,560 And these goals, motivations and pain points a specific active 394 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,320 Annie. And we'll see. 395 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,440 This is a template we can use. So the active Annie, what do you 396 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,800 think her goals would be? So one of the goals for active 397 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,240 Annie is that she would like to track her work out effectively. 398 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,960 OK, and matters. She's enthusiastic runner and 399 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,680 weightlifter, which means that she's really into that, which 400 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,640 means that it makes a difference if she's running two KS or three 401 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,800 KS or four KS or five KS. So she really wants to. 402 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:10,320 She's really goal motivated. So she wants to track her 403 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,520 workouts effectively. Maybe she wants to monitor her 404 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:22,200 calorie intake and maybe she wants personalized exercise 405 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,880 routines that are going to make the best use of her time 406 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,520 training and and what she eats. So they're the goals, they are 407 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,840 goals that we can assume. But we should test those goals. 408 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,480 And most importantly, we should have interviewed people in our 409 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,960 active group that represent any who are enthusiastic runners and 410 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,760 weight lifters and in the LA area around this age. 411 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,920 And we should have looked at their goals and interviewed them 412 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,360 and then worked out what are the common goals across that 413 00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:52,240 segment. And let's say we've done that 414 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:53,600 and these are the goals for that area. 415 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,880 We asked them what their motivations are. 416 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:01,760 So her motivations, and this makes it a little bit real, is 417 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,960 high quality, strong coffee. OK, so one of the one of the 418 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,280 motivations, she loves great coffee. 419 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,960 She wants a quiet atmosphere for studying. 420 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,600 That's really important. One of the other motivations is 421 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,480 convenient. Located near college campus, 422 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,120 it's something she's looking for in terms of this fitness Apple 423 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,800 area. So they're not specific around 424 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:36,440 necessarily like a a gym or an app or looking at a solution, 425 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,440 right? This is just the motivations 426 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,600 that active Annie has. And then in terms of the pain 427 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,480 points, she dislikes waiting too long for coffee. 428 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,120 Don't we all? I I I can sympathize with Annie, 429 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,120 but I'm maybe not the most enthusiastic runner out there at 430 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:53,720 these days. She prefers not to be bothered 431 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,640 by staff when studying, doesn't want to be bothered at all, and 432 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,280 relies on strong coffee for concentration. 433 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,640 So that gives you a little bit of an idea of more now behaviour 434 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:15,160 or psychology around any. So that's that's important. 435 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:19,720 And we could actually design some features or some 436 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,800 requirements that relate to Annie. 437 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,920 So this would happen later after we've gone through all the 438 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,040 personas. But let's think about some of 439 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:33,440 the key features or stories or yes, I guess they are features, 440 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,720 they're they're solutions, they're conceptual solutions in 441 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,280 which Annie would like. So one of it might be workout 442 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,440 training with progress towards goals like graphs she wants. 443 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,560 She's already said that she wants personalized exercise for 444 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,320 herself. So she may be personalized 445 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,640 exercise routines or something that resonates with Annie. 446 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,000 And we already know because of the coffee situation in which 447 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,920 she told us she will be inclined to want quick and professional 448 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,400 service order online, avoiding lining up. 449 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,400 OK, so that's Annie. I think we've got Annie, then 450 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,280 we've got busy Brian. OK. 451 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,440 So I'm going to walk through Brian and then Natalie a little 452 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,440 bit faster, but you get the idea. 453 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,920 Brian Mitchell 40, OK, I want you to close your eyes and think 454 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,600 about this. Brian Mitchell 40. 455 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,280 He's a working professional, probably see a suit and a tie, 456 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,360 his limited time for workouts and he also lives in LA, 457 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:44,080 California. The goals for Brian or busy 458 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:49,040 Brian? Brian Mitchell is he wants fit, 459 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,040 quick workouts and a busy schedule. 460 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,600 He wants to seamlessly integrate his fitness routine with work 461 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,680 and family life. We already know Brian has a 462 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:06,720 family now and work. The motivations for Brian is he 463 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,160 wants efficiency and time saving solutions. 464 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,960 He's time poor, hashtag, time poor. 465 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,960 Put a hashtag on that. He wants to stay active despite 466 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,520 A hectic schedule. So with all that's going on with 467 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,600 family and work, and he's 40 years old, he still wants to 468 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,160 maintain his fitness at the 40, which is a critical time in a 469 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,240 man's life. As I'm finding out with pain 470 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,080 points, he needs to balance working with family and fitness. 471 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,280 OK? They are three circles that 472 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,240 Brian needs to to manage in his life. 473 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,400 He needs workouts that do not disrupt his day. 474 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,760 He's he's on A roll with business, juggling business and 475 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,680 family already, and with family and work and fitness. 476 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,440 He needs to fit in around that day. 477 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,240 OK, so that should give you an idea around what Brian is, OK? 478 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,960 And we can all imagine what Brian looks like, slightly 479 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,280 receding hairline. Maybe he got a tan because he 480 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,440 wants to look good and he's working out. 481 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,680 He goes for runs, but he's busy and maybe he's a lawyer and he 482 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,040 works at La and fitness is important to him. 483 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,400 Family's too important to him. So he's not someone who's 484 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,720 hanging around at the clubs and he doesn't have much time and 485 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,240 he's really efficient and he and he schedules everything in his 486 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,640 life. We all know what Brian's like. 487 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,680 So some of the key features that Brian has literally told you, 488 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,040 some of the solutions in which Brian has told you his 489 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,640 requirements, and some solutions or features you're looking at. 490 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,080 The join between both the user story and the solution is which 491 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,680 we call features quick workouts, 15 to 10 minutes reminders for 492 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,880 consistency and time effective exercises. 493 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,840 Right. We're going to move on to newbie 494 00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:01,560 Natalie here. So Natalie Adams, 25, beginner 495 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:07,200 in fitness, also lives in LA California and she has just 496 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:16,000 started her fitness journey. OK, so beginner to fitness 25 497 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,880 newbie. The goals is that she wants to 498 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,760 start fitness. She wants to learn properly and 499 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,400 proper form and techniques. She wants to understand 500 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,320 nutritional basics. She wants to gradually improve 501 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,200 her professional level. Her motivations is she's eager 502 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:39,240 to explore the fitness world and seek a guidance in education, 503 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,880 and wants to do it right. Her pain point is that she feels 504 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,560 overwhelmed by all the information she gets from germs 505 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,800 and places, and she needs beginner friendly content. 506 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,920 So the key features for Natalie would be tutorials and 507 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,400 educational content, gradual challenges that lead up and 508 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:15,680 clear information. So with this Fit Pal app in 509 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,240 which we've identified these three kind of target customers, 510 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,640 you would focus on your, the customer that's your early 511 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,680 adopter, which one of these customers or personas 512 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,040 effectively are your early adopters. 513 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,640 You would do that in your Lync canvas and in this app, in this 514 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:38,160 kind of Fit Pal app. There's a premise in the lean 515 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,600 canvas that we haven't talked about, which is that we think 516 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,320 that we got to create an app that focuses on nutrition, 517 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,760 exercise and also having a fitness, fitness pal where you 518 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,920 meet this person over coffee and you pee your workouts and you 519 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,640 make friends. So it's kind of a social, 520 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,080 social, self exercising and nutritional app. 521 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:06,520 In this example here, we've got our three customer personas that 522 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,080 we talked about. There might be more and we might 523 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:14,920 say that the person that we're focusing on 1st is Natalie. 524 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,720 So we might say that active Annie is someone that we 525 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:24,440 ultimately want to target next. They're the kind of mass market 526 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:32,520 workout people that we want to make this app targeted at. 527 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,440 And that's our kind of mass market. 528 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,880 And maybe some of the late adopters might be people like 529 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,000 Bruce who are time poor and they might want to use the app 530 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,760 feature but not the social meeting and learning feature. 531 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,240 And then naturally might be our early adopter. 532 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,400 Naturally he's actively wanting to learn about fitness, so he 533 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,040 wants to try something new. Maybe we do a bit of work out 534 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,400 some insights around technology use and whether or not, you 535 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,680 know, there's this another persona around that we can split 536 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,480 out from nationally to those who use technology on the go all the 537 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,880 time and those that don't and target on the ones that do use 538 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,520 technology. And I'm motivated to learn about 539 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,880 fitness, but they can do it in a fun way by having a fitness pal 540 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,600 drinking a cup of coffee and then learning from our maybe our 541 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:27,480 trainers who we send out. So that's an idea about how you 542 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,080 would use Pessonas and there were there were kind of three 543 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,400 examples in this in this example at Fit Pal. 544 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,440 Now that should give you an idea about the use and then how they 545 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,000 can be applied down at the user story level. 546 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,719 And also like I just said, we've just made a decision there as a 547 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,239 team that naturally would be our first target customer. 548 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,320 So maybe the features that relate to Natalie's particular 549 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,320 pain points and those epics are the personas, sorry, are the 550 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,880 user stories that we should be focusing on 1st. 551 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,240 So we've made a decision just using real people. 552 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,240 Well, real examples of people what the other thing that's 553 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:12,520 really important when you are looking at personas is both to 554 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,840 make sure that these personas are quantifiable too. 555 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:18,680 So we want to know what percentage of the market we want 556 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,840 to have some really numbers, how many Nationalies are there in 557 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,600 LA, right, if that's where we're going to launch, how many young 558 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,240 people who are starting their finished, finished journey are 559 00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:33,160 there in LA. So give us some real numbers 560 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,840 around that to make sure it's viable. 561 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,400 And then we want to measure that same we want to market, sorry to 562 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,240 Natalie, we want to market to the Natalies, the 25 year old 563 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:48,240 female who want to get into fitness, want to get want to use 564 00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:51,080 some of the features We've just, she's just described as being 565 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,040 pain point areas for her and we want to market spend money on 566 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,760 that. And we also want to measure how 567 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:03,160 many of those Natalies are clicking on our landing page or 568 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:04,680 our app page. You know, how many are 569 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,400 responding to the ads, how many are clicking through. 570 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,480 Oh, actually it's really interesting. 571 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,400 We were doing this marketing campaign with these features 572 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,680 that we thought we would do first to target this target 573 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,640 segment and we've actually found that a whole lot of what we 574 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:22,880 would describe as active annies are actually clicking on it. 575 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,200 So we can get that through Facebook. 576 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,920 We can get that through, you know, Instagram, which Facebook 577 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,160 owns Tiktok, LinkedIn, potentially. 578 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,480 And it will give us demographics and it will tell us and we'll 579 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,920 go, oh man, there's actually people that are a little bit 580 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,680 older, a little bit wealthier, a little bit more active into 581 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,640 fitness that interests fitness already. 582 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,920 They're already actively describing, checked in to gyms. 583 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,480 Wow, They're actually responding to this ad. 584 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,400 So we can that's when we go, OK, well, it's really interesting. 585 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,640 They're picking up on it. And so we're now kind of can 586 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,320 really link the data to these real people we talked about, 587 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,320 right. And and we can know whether or 588 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,000 not we're not hitting the mark, we are hitting the mark. 589 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,480 And it all is all about learning. 590 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:11,120 It is all about getting that information, getting the data in 591 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:16,360 to kind of measure whether or not our target segments are 592 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,960 actually and our personas are real. 593 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:23,080 And if we need to evolve them, we can. 594 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,680 If you do evolve your personas, then obviously your target 595 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,320 customers may be changing and you need to decide whether or 596 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,200 not you're pivoting from your original idea. 597 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,920 And if you know anything about link canvases or have listened 598 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,280 to those podcasts, you'll know what I'm talking about there. 599 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:43,720 Now, when you effectively want to put these personas together, 600 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,960 this let's let's just list off like 10 steps, really just 10 601 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,240 steps to create these insightful personas. 602 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,000 So #1 is to do the research, right? 603 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,000 Is to gather information about your customers through 604 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,560 interviews and surveys and means you're validating your 605 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,480 hypothesis with real data to make sure they are your target 606 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,960 customers based on the solution and the problems that you are 607 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,960 solving. If you have been involved in 608 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,720 start-ups, problems is what you measure, not your solution. 609 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,440 And the reason why you might. The reason that it's problematic 610 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:22,080 to focus on solutions is that you we're notoriously bad at 611 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:27,120 doing customer computer analysis and just because you have a 612 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,240 great idea, there could be hundreds of other people with 613 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,120 viable, what we call viable alternatives that you haven't 614 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:35,080 thought about. OK? 615 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,600 And you don't sometimes don't really understand how people 616 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,120 customers are meeting their needs or solving a pain point 617 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,240 that you think is a pain point. So it's all around, let's say 618 00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:48,080 we'll just make the assumption that our pain point is valid and 619 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,080 there and our solution is going to could be more popular and 620 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,040 easier to use and solves the problems cheaper, faster, more 621 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,040 efficiently than other solutions. 622 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,640 Let's say that's true, then you also need. 623 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,560 You need data for that. But you also need data to 624 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:09,840 validate who is responding to you, to your solution and to the 625 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,320 pain points you've solved by your. 626 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:18,240 Solution #2 is we segment our audience groups based on common 627 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,400 common characteristics. Like I said though, it's more 628 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,440 about behaviour than it is around demographics. 629 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,680 OK, it's about behaviours and goals. 630 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,680 It is still useful to have demographics so we can visualise 631 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,640 the people they're useful for Targeting advertising so that 632 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:38,280 demographics are literally used in Google ads or Facebook ads. 633 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,440 And the behaviour side is out of the next level of marketing 634 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,600 where we literally have data on behaviours now. 635 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:50,360 And so it can provide us with deeper insights into improving 636 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,280 our customer experience or you know, changing the features and 637 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,120 seeing how people, how a product actually performs in the market. 638 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,000 And you can do that without building a real product. 639 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,800 Just just a side note there, you could just have a landing page. 640 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,160 It's called, it's I guess it's an MVPA. 641 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,840 True MVP where you aren't even building anything, you're just. 642 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,280 Literally seeing whether or not our customers are responding to 643 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,640 this app you're going to launch and if they're clicking on or 644 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,920 interested in the features that you have on your website #3 you 645 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,120 need to decide the layout for your persona. 646 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,760 You generally draw these up, I would say a simple PowerPoint 647 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,600 presentation, Google slide, physical piece of paper where 648 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,960 you have a a picture of the person. 649 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:40,000 You can use AI to generate their or a sketch, and you have some 650 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,600 demographics underneath the picture on the left hand side. 651 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,160 And then you have sections like Background, goals, motivations 652 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,440 and pain points, OK. And you might later add in the 653 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,320 features underneath those personas. 654 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:54,760 They're not. They're a response to the 655 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:59,520 persona around what you think will, what features or areas or 656 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,360 requirements you think are associated with those, those 657 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,680 personas. And you can do that later. 658 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,280 If this is a or do this physically, I'd put it on a 659 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,160 board somewhere in a project team or for your for your group 660 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,600 or team where you sit. Those demographics really need 661 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:22,880 to be based on real data. So you could say how many people 662 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,480 of this age, you know, gender, occupation, location, how many, 663 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:28,680 what's the data around that? What? 664 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,480 What represents that person who's got their motivation? 665 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,160 So you can also do that through keyword analysis. 666 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,680 Say how many people are searching for fitness with 667 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,680 friends? And Google will literally tell 668 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,440 you, give you a graph and tell you the percentage of people, 669 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,000 their age, demographic. As you've set up Google 670 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,640 Analytics, you can look into that. 671 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,680 You're using that information and you should have percentages 672 00:41:57,720 --> 00:41:59,960 here. You can use this information to 673 00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:01,800 create relatable personas, so they're real. 674 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,200 You want to describe the person's background, Like I 675 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,920 said, maybe even a back story. What got them there? 676 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,240 Give them a little bit more flavor, like a bit of a book. 677 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,640 We didn't do that earlier, but it also helps. 678 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,360 You could say, well, you know, Natalie's just recently moved to 679 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:22,680 LA Maybe she moved from mainland China where she was working and 680 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,320 she came off her parents farm. So exercise was built into the 681 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,840 farming life. But now she wants to experience 682 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,680 a real exercise. She's got a job in finance. 683 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,480 You know, you can give a, a really interesting back story to 684 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,440 to Natalie here who's getting new. 685 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,160 It might explain why she's only getting into fitness now that 686 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,680 she's 25 maybe, or what triggered that motivation? 687 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,840 So you can be rich with this stuff, right. 688 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,320 And. And and people might say, well, 689 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,280 that hasn't happened to all the people that are within that 690 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,680 segment or that persona. And that's OK, though you're 691 00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:00,720 trying to make these people real and relatable and they need they 692 00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:03,320 need reals and relatable could be two different things. 693 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:09,440 Real data could show quite different picture or make up to 694 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,400 what you've described naturally as so use the data to drive it. 695 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,520 When you define their goals, you want to do their jobs to be done 696 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,000 goals. What does your persona aim to 697 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:21,640 achieve? What are their objectives? 698 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,960 What are the desired outcomes? What do they want? 699 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,560 What where do they want to go? You may be helping them all 700 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,440 along. The journey you may define their 701 00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:35,880 is really important here is that personas go hand in hand with 702 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,520 customer journeys. So you should map out the steps 703 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:43,840 in which naturally carries out today to go and look out of 704 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,040 fitness. If her goal is to learn more 705 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,200 about fitness and start a fitness routine, maybe ask what 706 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,920 steps she's carrying out now to learn about those things. 707 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,120 Or even you know, the experience she's had before to go to a 708 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,520 German, do something. Do you understand her customer 709 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,360 journey that she's going through and the desired customer journey 710 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,560 when she uses your app? That's where you're linked to 711 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,680 processes, and that's how your user story should really drop 712 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,760 out of the steps and the customer journey. 713 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:18,440 Then, after you've done the goals and the desires, #7 is you 714 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,880 want to define the motivations and frustrations. 715 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:25,920 What is driving your persona? Why the why? 716 00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:28,680 What motivates them to take action? 717 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,120 What will motivate them to take action? 718 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,920 Ultimately, you want your customers to take action. 719 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,640 If they don't take action, they won't use your product. 720 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:44,160 You need to figure out what is going to motivate them to take 721 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:49,160 action, what will motivate them. And if that price of that price 722 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:54,600 not in in in indirect monetary terms is too high, they may not 723 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,680 be the right customers to target straight away. 724 00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,480 They may be late. Late adopters, not really 725 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,440 adopters. OK, you need to recognize their 726 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,240 pain points and frustrations, and your product needs to solve 727 00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:09,000 those. It doesn't matter that it's got 728 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,520 all the whiz bang, other features. 729 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,280 If it doesn't solve the pain points, they won't use it. 730 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,800 And if it doesn't solve those pain points better, cheaper, 731 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,440 faster than the competitors, they won't use it though. 732 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,960 They'll start, they'll download it, they'll use it once, and 733 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,000 they'll sign out. OK, that happens all the time. 734 00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:24,720 People are using for new features. 735 00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:28,280 If it's an app, they'll down three, they'll download 3 copies 736 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,720 of a similar app, they'll use them, they'll find the one with 737 00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:33,760 the best UX, the one with the best features, the cheapest 738 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,040 option, and they'll use that. And then you can get false data 739 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,480 where you think someone's downloaded my app, that's a win. 740 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,280 But if they're not using it, they don't continue to use it. 741 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,080 They don't load money on it, they don't go past the free 742 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,080 trial. You can get false data. 743 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,520 And this happens so often, There's a massive company in New 744 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:53,960 Zealand called the Warehouse Group. 745 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,880 They, they run a kind of like a, it's literally a physical 746 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,960 warehouse for a shop. So a little bit like Walmart and 747 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,400 you go in there and they own these and then they went and 748 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,600 they acquired lots of other stores. 749 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,680 They acquired kind of an outdoor retailer called Torpedo 7:00. 750 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,920 They have a mobile arm. They do lots of other things. 751 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,920 It's hugely successful, but they've had a lot of bad 752 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,800 business decisions where they've people are shopping more online. 753 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,560 They know that Amazon might be moving to New Zealand soon, so 754 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:26,920 they're wanting to respond to that. 755 00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,880 They set up an online marketplace called the Market in 756 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,640 New Zealand where other suppliers could use their 757 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,120 warehousing. They could sell their goods 758 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,200 online through this one marketplace. 759 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,320 And look, it sounds fantastic. I used it quite a lot. 760 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:47,240 There's no reason why the market couldn't dominate the market. 761 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:52,520 The New Zealand market in terms of online retail like Amazon has 762 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,400 had in the US because Amazon wasn't, isn't here yet. 763 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,720 Really it's in Australia, it's in the States and UK but we we 764 00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:03,040 have to that cost a lot of money to ship here And so it's not 765 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,800 actually doesn't make it generally viable to do that. 766 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:11,160 And the same way Trade Me in New Zealand has pretty much got all 767 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:16,320 the online kind of auctions or used goods market in New 768 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,200 Zealand. eBay just doesn't exist in New Zealand. 769 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,640 It just isn't something that runs here because Trade Me 770 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:26,400 dominates the market. Peter Teal, the we'll talk about 771 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:31,960 domination in his book. Now if you who happens to come 772 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,520 and live in New Zealand sometimes with the market and 773 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,520 the Warehouse group, they should have dominated that market. 774 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:39,240 It seemed like they were dominating. 775 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,080 But then on recent times I started to search for goods that 776 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,240 I wanted to buy and none of their results were coming up in 777 00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:48,480 Google ads or in the product listing under shopping shipping 778 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,440 tab. So I was like very surprised 779 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,760 that that wasn't the case. And what I found checking prices 780 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,760 sometimes is it was cheaper to buy it from the retailer who was 781 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,160 advertising on the market than it was to buy through the market 782 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:07,480 because of their shipping and their logistics cause kind of 783 00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,760 cost. It was standardized and so it 784 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,080 was actually sometimes cheaper to buy it directly. 785 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,600 So you'd go on the market, find the product you wanted, use the 786 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,040 great search and then go buy it somewhere else direct actually 787 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,400 with the retailer or you know, wholesaler who was selling it. 788 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:24,840 So that seemed a flaw in their plan. 789 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:28,720 I noticed that kind of early on. And the other thing about the 790 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:32,200 market is that when they launched, they gave away a lot 791 00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,400 of coupons. So they said, you know, if you 792 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,760 spend $50, we'll give you $10 back. 793 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,880 So a lot of people were saving these coupons and we're using 794 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,560 these coupons and saving money and we're going on there. 795 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,680 And there were massive amounts of coupons when you first signed 796 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,600 up to the website and there was a lot of free shipping deals. 797 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,040 And then they added a premium plan, a bit like Amazon Prime, 798 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,600 where, you know, you could pay a monthly fee and then you 799 00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:58,840 wouldn't have to pay for shipping. 800 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,120 You could buy as much as you liked. 801 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,920 So all those kind of tricks of the trade that all those online 802 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:07,440 retailers now do, and if you hadn't thought too much about 803 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,040 it, it looked like things were going well. 804 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,160 Well, I just read the news the other day and obviously they 805 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,520 hadn't done enough work on their personas, their business model 806 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,480 or their cost model. So what happened was I think 807 00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,280 they had a false sense that they were doing really well and 808 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,720 they've lost millions, hundreds of millions of dollars. 809 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,800 And now that part of their business is up for sale, another 810 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,160 bad decision. And I would say that they 811 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,080 obviously didn't do their persona work. 812 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,400 They obviously didn't look at the behaviours and the pain 813 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,120 points they were trying to solve and they weren't getting data on 814 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,840 these, on these pain points and what they were doing. 815 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,280 And this is, I guess the lesson I'm going off on a tangent about 816 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:50,280 is that by offering coupons and you know, free stuff, if you 817 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,960 offer free stuff from free trials that can cloud your data, 818 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,280 I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying that don't use 819 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,120 that as a forecast for how many people are going to continue to 820 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:06,800 use your product. Because generally, the mass 821 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:10,640 market loves free stuff and they'll use your product. 822 00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,680 If they hear about it and you spend enough on advertising and 823 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:15,280 they know they can get free stuff, they will go to your 824 00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,480 store. But don't take that that data 825 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,320 set as an indicator of continued business. 826 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,600 That's just the Side Story. And it's worth talking about as 827 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:30,640 we talk about personas here. So as we talked about #7 there, 828 00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,920 in terms of defining the motivations and frustration on 829 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,280 our customers, #8 is to just add your own ingredients I guess to 830 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,720 the cook pot around a unique traits, preferences, behaviours, 831 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:44,080 communication, style, hobbies. You know you can you can, like I 832 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:48,440 said, breathe life into the personas number 99 is to 833 00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:52,800 present. I guess it's optionally you can 834 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,720 represent this persona in physical form. 835 00:50:54,720 --> 00:51:02,120 You can use use a tool called UX Presenter AI Persona Generator 836 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,320 to generate some detailed personas for you. 837 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:09,720 You want that to have real data and or you know, you could just 838 00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:12,040 create your own personas, combine all the information 839 00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:17,840 together into a cohesive persona profile, update them regularly, 840 00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:22,360 refine them with data. Some of the main stories won't 841 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,160 change, but maybe the data will keep them relevant. 842 00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,320 Maybe even Craden Dashboard. So I hope you've learned 843 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,920 something about personas today. Why we use them, how we can use 844 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:34,360 them, What they are, where you can incorporate them, examples 845 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,480 of them. And really think about 846 00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,840 integrating personas into your BA work today.