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The Better Business Analysis 
Institute presence. 

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The Better Business Analysis 
Podcast with Kenjamin Walsh. 

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Hi everybody, and welcome back 
to the Better Business Analysis 

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Podcast with Benjamin Walsh. 
And today we're going to be 

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talking about how information 
flows within an organization. 

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We're going to be touching on 
Node science and the various 

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different kind of people. 
If you like, it's called the Law

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of the Few. 
If you've read The Tipping Point

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by Malcolm Gladwell, you'll know
what I'm talking about and how 

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this information comes together 
and helps you as ABA or anyone 

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within an organization 
understand how information 

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travels. 
It'll give you top tips in terms

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of how you present and also be 
will push you down the line of 

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being concise, clear when you 
communicate, which is ultimately

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what ABA should be doing all the
time. 

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So let's get straight into it. 
I'm going to start and talk a 

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little bit around the different 
categories of kind of node 

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science. 
If you don't know what node 

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science is, think of a little 
dot on a piece of paper. 

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And if you drew lines between 
those dots, you will pretty much

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outline exactly what node 
science is about. 

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So a node is a hub or a dot on 
your piece of paper, and the 

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lines are the information flow. 
And if you look at, say, a 

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typical organization, you could 
think of a node being the CIO 

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and then nodes under that and a 
line being the executive team, 

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and then under that the 
management team and then the 

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team leaders and then the 
workers, if you like. 

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OK, so this is, and you know a 
pyramid of dots is what you 

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would see there. 
And this structure that's a 

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hierarchical structure of nodes 
is very much how an organization

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is and how information travels 
up and down from managing up to 

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the management team down to the 
workers. 

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And of course, it's not just 
that structure. 

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The pyramid hierarchy structure,
there is just individuals in a 

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line. 
And if you've ever played what 

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they used to refer to as Chinese
whispers, which I think is 

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culturally inappropriate these 
days. 

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But if you play a game where 
you're all in a line and someone

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shares maybe a story at one end 
of the line, and you travel down

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the nodes, the people in that 
line, and you go, I don't know, 

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more than five, then you will 
see that the story may change as

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we pass information from person 
to person. 

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And you know, there's lots of 
games which involved 

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communication flow. 
And that's exactly a good 

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representation of how 
information travels through 

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nodes, servers. 
You can think of technical nodes

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as well, how information travels
through different servers and 

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you know the cloud. 
But generally things are 

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replicated or stored in such a 
way that all the information 

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that flows from one point to 
another gets transmitted. 

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But if one of those nodes or one
of those servers is cut out, 

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then information doesn't travel.
So node science is everywhere. 

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And I'm going to talk about just
to start a really five year 

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areas in which node science is 
interesting. 

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It's also known as network 
science and IT and I'm also 

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going to explain five ways in 
which that relates to 

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information flow in an 
organization. 

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So one is the visualization of 
information flow. 

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As I stated, you could see 
employees and departments as 

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node and information that flows 
between them is, you know, the 

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connections. 
Any communication, any 

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information that flows through 
them, you could see is the 

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connections between the various 
department. 

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This is very, very, very 
important. 

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I've actually made a career out 
of using node science to my 

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advantage in the last maybe 10 
years and and and really the art

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of information flow is really 
what I practice in my BA 

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visualization these days. 
I'm going to talk about that and

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give you some top tips. 
This is very much advanced what 

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I'd say senior BA plus, but 
understanding node science helps

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everyone. 
You know, a small child, someone

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trying to be ABA, someone who is
a senior BA. 

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And I find that all information 
flow is actually a problem for 

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those B as you get stuck in a 
specialization. 

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So I'm going to talk about that 
too. 

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So in terms of visualization of 
information, number one, we 

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talked about the nodes being the
people, the departments, but you

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can also draw that up. 
You can draw a visual map of 

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these networks. 
You can show how information 

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starts and travels and 
potentially gets stuck. 

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It allows by visualizing that 
you can allow managers at a 

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holistic point and this kind of 
relates to the last episode we 

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talked about in terms of you 
know, where do you flice off or 

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where do you restructure your 
organization. 

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By visualizing information flow 
and nodes in your organization, 

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you can actually see where 
bottlenecks are, redundant paths

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are or where information is not 
flowing to the right people. 

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So if you think about your 
external stakeholders as just 

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being another node, then you 
could think about how the fact 

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that one of your departments is 
communicating with them. 

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Another one is and maybe having 
inconsistent information from 

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two different nodes to one 
external node can cause a 

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problem. 
So the second part in terms of a

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node science is around and this 
is really important. 

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We got to go, we got to go deep 
dive on this in a minute. 

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Thanks to Malcolm Gladwell, who 
I always referred to in this 

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podcast that's around 
identifying key communicator. 

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OK, so you probably haven't 
thought about it in a node 

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science point of view before, 
but there are certain 

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individuals or even departments 
in your organization usually say

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maybe a marketing PR department.
They're actors, hub, they 

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collect information from 
different parts of the network 

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and they influence, This is a 
really key point here. 

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They influence how information 
spreads. 

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All right. 
So if you imagine a situation 

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where, let's think about it from
a point of view of sound 

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engineering, which is a passion 
of mine and what I I studied in 

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London, there are different ways
in which you can manipulate 

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audio. 
OK, so this recording a band and

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if you've listened to any music,
you will see that on your track.

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And if you listen very deeply, 
there are different things you 

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can do to the various tracks and
songs made-up of tracks. 

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Let's say they're usually lots 
of tracks these days, but let's 

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say there's an an old eight 
track. 

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So what I mean by that is you 
might have vocals recorded on 

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one track, you might have drums 
recorded on a few tracks. 

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Depend you want to split the 
drums from the high and the low.

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You might have a pad, you might 
have keyboard, you know, piano, 

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guitar based on different track.
OK, And you can you can by 

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putting them through a mixer, 
putting them through a mixing 

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board and manipulating that. 
And that's what sound 

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engineering and music 
production's all about. 

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You can manipulate those tracks,
right? 

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Every song has this, unless 
you're listening to something 

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directly live. 
And it could just be simply 

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putting a volume up, making one 
of those tracks louder than what

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you recorded it. 
It could be just making it sound

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more natural, normalizing the 
sound. 

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Or it could be to what we One of
the major things you do as a 

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mixer, as a sound engineer, is 
simply changing frequencies or 

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what we call EQ. 
And you would have experienced 

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that probably on your phone or 
if you've not experienced it 

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anywhere else. 
But sometimes stereos allow you 

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to set it to action or movie, 
and all that's doing is applying

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a different amount of EQ to the 
sound. 

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And so it's it's it's really 
cutting the highs and lows. 

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It's it's using science 
effectively to manipulate the 

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sound. 
That happens often on a track. 

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You can also spread the sound so
you can make things sound more 

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on your left side of it's stereo
and more on the right side and 

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some in the center and that 
allows you to hear all the makes

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it sound a bit more like a a 
range of sound. 

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Sometimes if you record or you 
think hear things on the radio, 

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they just use what's called the 
mid and everything's in the 

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middle. 
And sometimes you miss the 

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guitar or the bass or the vocals
because it's all stuck what 

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what's in the middle? 
And so there's a whole art to 

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sound engineering and and it's 
science and art just like 

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business analysis. 
The reason I I go off on that 

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tangent there is that you can 
enhance 1 sound over another. 

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OK And when you talk about key 
communicators in the 

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organization there are no and 
there are hubs within the 

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organization that help amplify 
and quiet information. 

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They are sly they may not be 
doing this on purpose, they may 

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well be and they are influencing
you know just as you influence 

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or change sound on a music 
track. 

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They are influencing how you 
hear different information. 

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And so not only do you need to 
know that there are people that 

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influence them thus, and even if
you don't like it, it happens. 

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By the way, you can help 
identify these hubs and 

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influences and you should 
involve them strategically in 

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your communication plan, right. 
And it allows you to use those 

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hubs to spread information. 
And I'm going to come back to 

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this point with before I go too 
deep and we're going to be 

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talking about the tipping point 
if you haven't read it and the 

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lure of the few in a minute. 
And so we're going to come back 

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to key influence communications 
and going to use Malcolm 

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Gladwell to expand on that 
outside of node science to to 

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more of the tipping point. 
The third area is network 

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analysis. 
So you can use techniques like 

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communication detection and 
patterns and communication 

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networks. 
A real technology network you 

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can use look at any kind of 
network and this this relates to

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pandemics, this relates of you 
know in terms of illness like 

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COVID-19, but also information 
flow, information flows just 

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like a disease or a virus flows.
And so you can actually look at 

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use network analysis to look at 
isolated groups, silos, you can 

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look at areas with slow 
information flow, departments 

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that rely on a single source of 
truth where maybe one manager 

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isn't good at communicating with
their team. 

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You can actually see that by 
tracking information flow or 

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surveying those at the bottom of
the worker pile. 

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So you can then understand those
patterns. 

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And this is like seriously, 
there's a whole business to us 

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that you can get involved in and
I tell you what BAS need to to, 

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to utilize those. 
The last area which is, well, I 

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guess there's two other areas. 
One number four is around 

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predicting information flows. 
So once you understand node 

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science, you can actually use 
node science to predict changes 

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in the network like well if we 
add a new hire to this area, we 

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do a restructure that might 
change the information flow. 

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And you can also you look at 
using predictive information 

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flow to anticipate adjusting 
communication strategies and 

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ensuring information exchange. 
So that's, I mean that's pretty 

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advanced and just understand no 
science to start off with before

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you look at predictions, but you
can get there too. 

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The last area is around 
optimizing communication 

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channels. 
And you can do this without 

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prediction. 
And that's really just looking 

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at effective pathways, right? 
How can you disseminate and 

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transmit information around the 
organization? 

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How can you allow managers to 
streamline reporting, right, and

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choose the best ways in which 
you communicate? 

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Communication channels like 
e-mail, meetings, collaboration 

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platforms for information, 
different information types. 

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So you can survey and you can 
actually see or just, you know, 

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ask people, did you hear about 
that? 

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And they're like, well, you 
know, I didn't go on to the, I 

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didn't read that e-mail. 
So you can actually use this to 

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just map out your information 
flows across your organization. 

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And I actually just find this 
fascinating. 

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So they're the five areas in 
terms of node science. 

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And we're going to go off and 
we're going to talk about 

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identifying key communicators, 
which is #2. 

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And we're going to talk about 
these different types. 

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We're going to use Malcolm 
Gladwell, The Tipping Point, If 

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you haven't read it, read it. 
And we're going to use some of 

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the personas that he talks about
and talk about why that, why 

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they're important in an 
organization. 

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They're theories, but they you 
will definitely relate to some 

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of these personas in your 
organization. 

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And then I'm going to just give 
you an example of how you as ABA

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need to use these ideas, but 
also the amount of information 

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that we expect managers to 
understand and why it's 

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important to be concise and 
clear, right. 

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So there, when we talk about 
Malcolm Gladwell and the kind of

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tipping point, what we're 
referring to is the fact that 

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there is something called the 
lore of the few. 

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OK, So Gladwell suggests that a 
handful of people. 

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00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,520
Connectors. 
Connectors. 

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00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:56,840
I'm going to say that again. 
Maverick, Maverick, and 

232
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,440
Salesman. 
OK, Connectors, Mavericks and 

233
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,000
salesman. 
They have a disproportionately 

234
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:09,480
amount of impact on how 
information spreads, how ideas 

235
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,360
spread, how trends spread, how 
products spread. 

236
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,920
OK. 
And it's around the fact that 

237
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:21,680
these individuals, these three 
types of individuals, they are, 

238
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:26,560
they are instrumental in terms 
of pushing an idea to a tipping 

239
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,880
point where it spreads like 
wildfire. 

240
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,000
OK. 
So the network effect, we call 

241
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:36,240
it or if you like, it's a like 
how businesses rapidly achieve 

242
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,320
scale, but it's also how 
information achieves scale and 

243
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,400
it's called the tipping point. 
And once you get to that tipping

244
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,440
point, things are spread like 
wildfire. 

245
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:49,120
Now I'm not going to spoil the 
book for you in terms of the 

246
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:54,280
stories he has in it, which is 
what the which is what the 

247
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,960
enjoyment factor is. 
But there are great real life 

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00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,040
stories about how information 
spreads and how the the 

249
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:05,200
psychology has been used for 
some very well known TV programs

250
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,880
that you may have watched. 
What I am going to talk about is

251
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,000
the lore of the few, the 
connectors, Mavericks and 

252
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,960
salesman and how that relates to
organizational hierarchy and the

253
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,480
reporting structure structure. 
OK, and how we can look at these

254
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,520
different type. 
So let's. 

255
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,320
OK, we'll I'll explain what the 
connectors and Mavericks and 

256
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,800
salespeople are in relation to 
an organization. 

257
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,920
So connectors, these are the 
influences, OK. 

258
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:39,280
These are the individuals, the 
influential individuals, who 

259
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,840
have extensive network, OK, that
the connectors, they have lots 

260
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,680
of nodes that they connect with 
other nodes. 

261
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,160
They're a node themselves and 
they have lots of connections 

262
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,440
and they can bridge gaps between
different teams and department. 

263
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,600
So in a company, connectors 
might be senior managers, they 

264
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,760
might be executives, right, Just
because of their position. 

265
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,640
Or they just might be employees 
who naturally connect with 

266
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,079
people. 
Maybe the extroverts who talk to

267
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,400
a lot of people, or you know, 
Karen from accounts who knows 

268
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,040
everyone. 
They play a critical role in 

269
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,000
disseminating information across
the organization. 

270
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,880
So imagine a connector, like a 
central harbor node of a spider 

271
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,319
web, connecting various 
strengths. 

272
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,600
Now what's really important to 
say about connectors is that 

273
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,800
they're influential, right? 
And depending on their 

274
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:37,040
personality type, they're bias. 
They will change the information

275
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,640
as well. 
So they might disseminate 

276
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,760
information. 
Doesn't mean it's exactly what 

277
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:48,200
they heard in the 1st place. 
Really important to know the 

278
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,920
next is Maverick. 
So Mavericks are the experts. 

279
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,440
They are the go to people for 
specific information. 

280
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,760
Sometimes we talk about them in 
the BA world as SMEs, right? 

281
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:01,240
They really know about 
something. 

282
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:06,400
Oh, they're the person that 
really understands career 

283
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,400
planning. 
They understand how to plan a a 

284
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:14,560
job, you know, career plan for 
kids in school. 

285
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:20,240
Now they are the ones who deeply
understand their domain. 

286
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:26,160
They provide value in Pool, 
valuable insight and in an 

287
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,320
organizational context. 
They are the SMEs or the tick 

288
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,600
leads or the seasoned employees,
you know, the ones with the IP. 

289
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:41,120
And when they share information,
others listen because they trust

290
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:45,000
their expertise. 
OK, we talked about the 

291
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,360
connectors just before and said 
they can change this. 

292
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:52,120
It's not a trust, it's just 
simply a relationship based on 

293
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,720
information spread and they've 
got people skills. 

294
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,080
Mavericks may not have those 
people skills. 

295
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:03,160
However, when people ask them 
something they trust, they know 

296
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,200
it. 
OK? 

297
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,960
And this is like a like I got a 
friend of mine who really good 

298
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,560
at saving money. 
OK, really top tip. 

299
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,960
And if I want to know how to 
save money, I will ask because 

300
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,600
he will know how to do that. 
OK, that you just trust that 

301
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,280
they understand the topic. 
You take whatever they say as 

302
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,040
true, and it may not always be 
true, but they try and make it 

303
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,800
true. 
They're an expert in, you know, 

304
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,800
a game. 
Maybe, you know, they're the the

305
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,640
go to and the last kind of 
influence in terms of 

306
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,480
information that's really 
important to know about is the 

307
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,360
salesman. 
OK, they are the persuasive 

308
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:43,320
communicator. 
They sell ideas, they motivate 

309
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,480
teams, they influence decision 
making. 

310
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,640
And a company salesman can be 
charismatic leaders, OK? 

311
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,800
And they could have got to that 
position because they are good 

312
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,120
at selling. 
They may not do, may not be the 

313
00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:59,760
experts by the way. 
And you know these people, they 

314
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,640
might be project managers, they 
might just be enthusiastic 

315
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:07,040
colleague, They excel at 
convincing others to adopt new 

316
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,520
ideas, embrace change or rally 
behind a vision. 

317
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,160
So you know, if you can get 
someone who is a salesman and 

318
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,160
aceo, then that's awesome. 
And if they can be a 

319
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,360
communicator, even better. 
Right. 

320
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:22,840
So these are some individuals 
can be all of these things, but 

321
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,760
generally they are individual 
individuals and they generally 

322
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,120
individually have their 
strength. 

323
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,640
So they are really interesting 
in terms of communicators and 

324
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,040
communicators of information 
across the organization. 

325
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,080
You have connectors, Mavericks 
and salesman, OK. 

326
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,040
And this is all explained, it's 
called the law of the few, OK, 

327
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,360
which again is around a small 
group of influential individuals

328
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:52,400
that can significantly impact on
the spread of information. 

329
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:58,440
And you, if you want information
to spread, if you want to create

330
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,440
a pandemic of information flow, 
you need to use these persona, 

331
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,000
you need to use these 
individual. 

332
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:10,200
OK, so if you understand that 
these are these types of 

333
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,400
information, you model them out 
that you need to get them 

334
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:18,240
involved in your change program.
Now when it relates to business 

335
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:24,520
analysis, BAS can different BAS,
different, generally different 

336
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,320
BAS can be some of these things.
So like when you think about 

337
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,720
connectors, that's really the BA
is the liaison. 

338
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,440
BAS act as a connector between 
business stakeholders and 

339
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,160
technical teams. 
They bridge the gap by 

340
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,760
facilitating clear and effective
communication between the two 

341
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,560
group. 
We're influential. 

342
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,400
B as influential. 
If we're in those roles, we're 

343
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,600
like a social, you know, in the 
social network we ensure that 

344
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,880
information flows. 
We gather information from 

345
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,240
stakeholders, We translate them 
so we could manipulate. 

346
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,880
You know, we do manipulate. 
We do persuade and we make 

347
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,240
judgement calls. 
So we are connectors in some of 

348
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,640
our roles, right? 
And I appreciate that not all 

349
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,640
BAS are all these things, but I 
do think that the BA role is 

350
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,040
probably, when I read the 
tipping point, is probably the 

351
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,200
one type of role that can be all
these things. 

352
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,920
And when it comes to Mavericks 
as experts, there are some BAS 

353
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,800
or or sometimes they've come 
from this area or they just have

354
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,000
to understand an area of 
business process. 

355
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:33,800
And I, I, I, I sometimes can get
frustrated when B as become 

356
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,680
maverick. 
But naturally sometimes you just

357
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,600
do, especially if you've been on
a project for a while. 

358
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,320
And when they become experts, 
maverick B as possess kind of a 

359
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,720
deep understanding of the 
business process, industry 

360
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,440
trends and regulation. 
They analyze the complex 

361
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,080
problems, They dissect 
requirements, They're looking at

362
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,520
solutions. 
So to be honest, they you know, 

363
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,960
we do have to become a pseudo 
maverick as part of our role. 

364
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,160
Somebody has stayed here, 
somebody has come from there and

365
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,560
it's a dangerous place to stay. 
However, you know you can create

366
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,440
roles in terms of becoming a 
specialist in different areas. 

367
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,400
Mavericks provide valuable 
insights and recommendations for

368
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,480
improvement. 
We ensure that the right 

369
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,560
solutions are developed and 
communication, communicate 

370
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,280
across domains and people. 
And that's when you become a 

371
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:29,800
kind of an industry specialist 
like in banking or telco or 

372
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:33,120
pharmaceuticals. 
And you know, and sometimes when

373
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,160
you hire BA, especially outside 
of New Zealand in America or the

374
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,120
UK, you've actually had to 
become a specialist in an area 

375
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:42,320
because you know that's the, 
it's much bigger scale. 

376
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,400
Whereas we're much more 
generalists in New Zealand and 

377
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,800
we have to be across different 
industries. 

378
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,440
And so you become an expert and 
you become a maverick, right? 

379
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,920
So people trust that what you 
say about something is true. 

380
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,960
And then, of course, BAS can be 
persuaded. 

381
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,440
And we're going to touch it. 
We're going to, again, go off on

382
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,520
a tangent on this in a minute. 
But as salesman, BAS are 

383
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,400
salesman or saleswoman or 
salesperson. 

384
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,920
We play a vital role in 
stakeholder engagement. 

385
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,680
We conduct workshops, 
interviews, collaborate with 

386
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,920
technical teams, right? 
We need to be persuasive. 

387
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,000
The best B, as I know, are 
persuasive. 

388
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,440
They advocate for the projects, 
They ensure that the business 

389
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:33,520
needs a meet, they're advocating
on behalf of the business, and 

390
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,040
they simplify the relationship 
between the IT department and 

391
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,920
the company that bridge the gap,
right. 

392
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,160
So in terms of connectors, 
Mavericks, and sales people, B, 

393
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,640
as can be all of these things. 
So this is really great. 

394
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,840
And you can see even as your own
skill, you could say, Oh well, 

395
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,400
actually I'm not as much of A 
connector as I want to be or I'm

396
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,320
not a a Maverick. 
I need to know more about the 

397
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,600
industry or I just, I'm just not
persuasive enough. 

398
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,520
These are areas where you can 
actually start to look at skill 

399
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,880
development, right? 
It's really a really good point.

400
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,040
So these are just really 
interesting lore of the few 

401
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,320
areas that you should take on. 
And when you look at information

402
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,160
travel, you can met that out 
using note science, right. 

403
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,120
You can see that how connectors 
are, you know in the 

404
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:24,600
organization where The Mavericks
are, where the sales people are 

405
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:31,360
And by using these you can 
provide more clarity and you can

406
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:37,240
be I guess being proactive in 
terms of your communication plan

407
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:43,000
as BA but also as a project. 
And you know this is what change

408
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,800
management's all about as well 
as you utilizing this channel. 

409
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,880
So I'm going to jump now and I 
am being a bit jumpy, but I'm 

410
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,800
going to jump now in terms of 
persuasion, persuasive 

411
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,120
communication. 
And I'm just going to say, if we

412
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,960
go back and think of our pyramid
in terms of node, what you've 

413
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,240
got to also understand is not 
only does information travel 

414
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,240
that way and some nodes are more
important than others, the law 

415
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:12,320
of the few, right, But also just
the amount of information. 

416
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,160
And this is something that I'm 
really hot on, OK. 

417
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,520
And again, this is probably the 
area where I have been able to 

418
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,720
make a bit of a niche in, in 
terms of what I do for 

419
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,760
organizations in terms of 
consultancy. 

420
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,360
And that's the fact that I 
understand the fact that node 

421
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:34,400
science is everywhere and that 
if you're a manager, and I'm 

422
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,800
going to give you this example, 
if you're a manager of an 

423
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:44,200
organization, you cannot 
comprehend all the information 

424
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,240
that is travelling throughout 
the organization. 

425
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,160
And if you are trying to 
communicate to a manager 

426
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:56,160
influence, be a salesman in the 
organization to convince or even

427
00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,840
communicate or even give a 
status update to a line manager 

428
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,000
and executive, you need to 
understand node science and how 

429
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,480
much information they're being 
hit with. 

430
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,440
And you need to manage your 
communication methods through 

431
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,280
presentations, through red 
amber, green rag statuses and 

432
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,360
concise, clear communication in 
order to be taken seriously or 

433
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,040
understood. 
OK. 

434
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,400
And I'm going to give you an 
example. 

435
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,640
Why. 
Why, You may ask? 

436
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,480
Let's take a medium sized 
company, just a medium sized 

437
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,560
company anywhere, OK. 
And I've got a CIO, OK, normal. 

438
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,880
And let's just say it's a 
product company. 

439
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,800
So we'll keep it very simple. 
There's five product line with 

440
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,280
five managers, SO5 product, 
different product lines, 5 

441
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,080
managers who own it. 
So maybe it's like you know 

442
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,480
fashion, maybe it, you know, 
health and Wellness, whatever 

443
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,440
the product lines are, it 
doesn't really matter. 

444
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,640
There are 5 managers, OK. 
And under those five managers, 

445
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:03,960
each manager has been set up 
with five team leader who manage

446
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:09,520
the various aspects of maybe a, 
a, a product area. 

447
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,480
OK. 
So maybe ones around within you 

448
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,200
know health and beauty or you 
know, yeah health and beauty 

449
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,640
line there might be something 
that's around, I don't know 

450
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:23,840
personal product, OK. 
So one manager that runs that, 

451
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,120
sorry one team leader under that
manager runs that. 

452
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,400
So 5 managers, 5 team leaders 
and each team leader has five 

453
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,600
product managers and that's as 
low as we go in our 

454
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,680
organization. 
So just kind of a three tier 

455
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,360
plus the CIO and there are 5 
product managers under each team

456
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,360
leader and they manage a 
product. 

457
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,800
So I don't know shampoo or a 
spit shampoo. 

458
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,600
So you could relate this to, I 
don't know, Palmolive or 

459
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,480
something, right. 
This is a small organization, so

460
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,000
5 managers, 5 team leaders and 
five product managers each. 

461
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:02,720
So the if you do 5 * 5, it's 25 
and then you do it's 525 team 

462
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,240
leaders times 5 product managers
each. 

463
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:13,120
You end up with a total if you 
add the five managers in of 155 

464
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,520
staff members, right. 
Not not a huge organization. 

465
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,600
And in relative terms it's, it's
a one of the departments that 

466
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,560
I'm working in at the moment at 
one of the ministries, 155 

467
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,720
people, not many, right? 
And that doesn't include the CIO

468
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:30,400
or the executive. 
So we're just going to miss them

469
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,080
out. 
There's 155 people in the 

470
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,640
organization. 
You say, OK, that's fine, 33 

471
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,280
tiers, effectively 3 tiers and 
you think, OK, cool, that's 

472
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,240
normal. 
How does that structure? 

473
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,440
How does the node, just the 
nodes of people, influence 

474
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,640
information flow? 
Well, if I'm a product manager, 

475
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:56,280
right there are, there are 125 
of them working on 125 different

476
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,600
products. 
Each product would have around, 

477
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,560
I don't know 5K PIS that you 
might report on and these might 

478
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,080
be things like customer 
acquisition cost, revenue, 

479
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,920
profit, you know, just really 
simple KPIs, very simple ones, 

480
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,960
customer satisfaction margin, 
customer life, market share or 

481
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,400
sorry, customer life cycle 
value. 

482
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,840
So these are just very simple 
totals with no information 

483
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,360
behind them, right. 
We're not doing about user 

484
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:34,880
stories here or particular stats
and that's it. 5K PIS per 

485
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,960
product. 
That means that one of our 

486
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,320
lineman, OK or the executive, 
the CEO of this company has to 

487
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,480
deal with 625 product KPIs being
reported to them. 

488
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,240
That's a lot. 
How do you even keep ahead of 

489
00:30:52,320 --> 00:31:00,240
625 different KPIs? 
So that is why we only report up

490
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,960
very small information. 
That's why we do red and the 

491
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,640
green. 
And that is why we need to be 

492
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,760
concise with our communication 
and use things like PowerPoint 

493
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,400
and slides. 
And about three or four slides 

494
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,160
is enough with an appendix if 
someone wants to dive deep. 

495
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,120
But usually people only want to 
dive deep if there's something 

496
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,040
unusual, as in things are going 
badly. 

497
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,240
What can we do about it? 
What's our recommendation? 

498
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,680
You know, here's the analysis we
recommend. 

499
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,480
We ask that you make some 
decisions on the following 

500
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,360
there's 625 KPIs here and they 
they could have a huge amount of

501
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,360
work behind each of them. 
There could be whole teams 

502
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,600
behind these development teams. 
So that is why you need to 

503
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,960
understand node science and the 
amount of information you're 

504
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,040
communicating and make sure 
you're concise when you 

505
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,880
communicate up. 
Now, the other day, I'll end on 

506
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,520
a story. 
The other day I was talking to a

507
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,920
manager, a line manager with 
about 155 staff and one of the 

508
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:56,400
workers, one of the product 
managers. 

509
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,800
Actually it's me. 
So even under a product manager,

510
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:04,880
even another tier was kind of 
suggesting that it was silly 

511
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,160
that the manager didn't 
understand what was going on and

512
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,800
they were making a decision 
around a specific user story. 

513
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,760
Now in that example, the 
particular project we're on 

514
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,560
doing at the moment, they're 
around, I don't know and that 

515
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,960
haven't even been elaborated 
yet. 

516
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,240
At a high level, 100, maybe 100 
user stories, OK, wrapped 

517
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,400
around, I don't know 16 Epic. 
So it's not a huge project, but 

518
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,960
there is a lot going on, a lot 
of people involved and a lot of 

519
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,600
different managers involved. 
Now, if you think about the 155 

520
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,400
people in our organization and 
this person's, you know there, 

521
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,720
there's another tier in this 
organization. 

522
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,760
If you use times that by 100, 
right, you're getting up to 

523
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,120
about 15,000 different user 
stories. 

524
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,760
This manager could be fed. 
They've shown all the user 

525
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,080
stories. 
They can't know about 

526
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,360
everything, let alone the what 
and the how and why you're doing

527
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,760
it. 
So just give them a break. 

528
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,480
It's really hard. 
As a manager, you've got to have

529
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,760
a trust model, and the only way 
it works is the manager has to 

530
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,920
trust down and trust in these 
experts, right? 

531
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,960
But don't expect them to 
understand it all. 

532
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,720
There's no way. 
And with the different tiers 

533
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,280
you've got these different 
influences that they may not be 

534
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,240
hearing what you hear. 
So as ABA, you need to try and 

535
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:26,880
move your way directly to the 
person that matters and you need

536
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,240
to be concise and hope that your
information is so concise and 

537
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,640
straight to the point it doesn't
need to be manipulated. 

538
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,760
So this talks about having been 
very small in your documentation

539
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,800
and managing up through one to 
three slides with an appendix. 

540
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,880
OK, so I just wanted to enter 
that note and I hope you've 

541
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,480
learned a bit more about node 
science and how you can relate 

542
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,000
it to your job as a VA EE you 
next time.

