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Hello and welcome back to 
another episode of Run to Done, 

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Tonight's guest. 
I'll go with the AI intro first.

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It says that Jenny's a woman 
that wakes up early before alarm

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clocks, which means they don't 
exist. 

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Calls it relaxing. 
She claims she doesn't run that 

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much. 
She says she's boring. 

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But what what Nikki doesn't know
is I've known Jenny since uni 

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days, well before I was a runner
probably I would say 20 odd 

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years. 
So it's going to be an 

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interesting chat. 
I think it's longer than that. 

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Yeah, well, I don't know. 
I graduate 2001 and it was a 

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roundabout then so yeah, 2025 
ish years. 

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So welcome to the show, Jennifer
Reece Jenkins. 

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Hello. 
Thank you for coming on, Jenny. 

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No, it's nice to be. 
It's nice to be here. 

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I like to talk about running, so
you know it's good. 

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We're so glad that you agreed to
come on, so thank you. 

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The first question that we do 
ask every single guest is how 

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did you first get into running? 
Good question. 

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I, I forget quite a lot actually
about that because it's been so 

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long now, I suppose. 
But in two, I was trying to look

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up when my first race was and I 
think it was Balmoral 10K in 

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2009. 
But at that point in I was 

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running. 
Before then I used to work for 

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Scottish Water and did a lot of 
walking and I used to go to the 

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gym. 
I lived in Aberdeen and used to 

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swim a lot in the old Bonnycourt
Baths before it closed. 

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And running was like the thing 
that you did when you went to 

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the gym to warm up. 
So I'd always go on the 

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treadmill for like 5 minutes and
then go on something else. 

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So that's all running really was
for a very long time. 

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And for some unknown reason in 
2009 I did the Balmoral 10K and 

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I was destroyed. 
I remember being particularly 

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destroyed and if I maybe it was 
before then, but anyway. 

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And I pretty much quit after 
that and decided that I didn't 

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really want to do it again 
because it's a bit sore and that

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was that. 
So really running now to me, 

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obviously I run a lot is about 
first it became to lose weight 

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after both my children. 
So my first daughter was born in

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2008, my second was in 2010. 
And I wanted to lose quite a bit

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of weight. 
So running was a really quick 

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way to do it around juggling 
family life. 

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I live in a small village inch 
in Aberdeenshire and the gym is 

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open here some of the time, but 
not consistently when I was 

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awake. 
So yeah, just fell into running.

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So yeah, that's it. 
So probably properly, properly 

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started in 2011. 
And you were saying that about 

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he got into running just to lose
the weight after having the 

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kids. 
And that because my own fitness 

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journey, it started out during 
the workouts. 

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It was COVID times when I got 
back into it. 

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And the one thing that I noticed
was when I'd, like, toned up and

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just felt better in myself, I 
was a lot more confident. 

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Did you feel that in yourself? 
Yeah. 

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I mean, I've, I've always been 
quite open about mental health 

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over the years and as a young 
adult and through uni times had 

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really struggled with that and 
had to use medication to stay 

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out of the dark places that my 
brain was putting me into. 

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And I'd, I guess being a new 
mum, you know, it's really, 

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really difficult to stay out of 
that. 

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And I think I'd always been 
aware that the skills that I 

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developed to stay mentally 
healthy were really difficult to

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manage when I was also very 
tired and then having to look 

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after small people. 
So running did two things. 

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It gave me that balance where I 
could process things and try and

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get back what I needed that I 
used to rely on medication for 

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and didn't want to do that 
again, but also gave me an 

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opportunity to get that runner's
high, which in itself becomes 

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addictive. 
So I think especially for people

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that have had, well, I mean 
we're all runners and I meet a 

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lot of runners from in, 
especially in ultra events that 

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have a similar state that they, 
they feel they need that as well

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in their life. 
I think that's why I enjoy 

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running as well from that 
community aspect where we can 

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openly speak about how we feel 
and that actually sometimes 

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things are really rubbish and it
is quite difficult to manage 

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adulting. 
So yeah, I would I would agree 

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it's it's good, good for making 
you feel better. 

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Everyone should run you. 
Said you've got two kids. 

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Yeah, do. 
Do they run at all? 

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No, no, Jazz is now. 
How old is she now? 

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16 so she's so my eldest is 
going to be 18 this year and my 

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youngest is going to be 16 this 
year. 

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And Jazz is at a point where I 
think she could be a runner 

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because she started coached 5K 
and actually really enjoyed it. 

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And that was her way of sort of 
making herself feel better in 

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avoiding all the pressures that 
you get of being a young human 

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being. 
I was going to say a young 

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female, but actually from 
working with children of, you 

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know, all genders, I'm aware 
that everybody has, you know, 

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body image is something that all
young people struggle, adults as

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well struggle with. 
So yeah, I think maybe running 

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is a positive way of doing that 
these days, staying healthy, 

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maybe not they're losing weight,
but but being healthy. 

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You've been running since 2011, 
which I would imagine you've 

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done a fair few events and that 
thing. 

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Do you have any standouts or any
favourites that you have? 

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Oh. 
Yeah, yeah, from quite a lot of 

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different disciplines now, so 
favourites. 

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I really like the hill races, 
the long classic hill races if 

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I'm honest now. 
I mean if you'd asked me when I 

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started running out that 
wouldn't have been the answer, 

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but certainly where I am now I 
really enjoy those in 

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particular, like the Trotonish 
Hill race and the the the Ridge 

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in Sky and the 2 breweries Hill 
race near the borders is pretty 

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good. 
Both lovely events. 

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Favorite all time event for me 
would be Lakes in a Day in the 

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Lake District. 
I really like that event. 

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That's the event that I like as 
much as the route. 

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Yeah, I've got quite a lot. 
I don't know, it depends on what

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we come on. 
I really, I did the Sid did the 

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Sidla Ultra last year. 
I really like that race. 

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So I might do that one again. 
You're the first person I've 

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helped that says that they've 
liked. 

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Yeah, it's really good. 
Yeah, it's brilliant. 

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It's really great. 
It's like it's it's marked ish. 

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So I like that element of it. 
Like you really do have to, you 

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have to have your wits about you
and that's not anything to do 

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with the race directors. 
It's just a really difficult 

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route to mark. 
Like there's no way you could 

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fully mark that perfectly unless
it was like a sky race. 

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And I liked that has a lot of 
hill in it as well. 

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And you've, it's quite, you've 
got to be quite self-sufficient.

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So that would be the things for 
me if navigating 

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self-sufficiency and it being a 
bit hard would be the three 

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things I would look for in a 
good event. 

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Now, and you talk about getting 
into hell races. 

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How does one go about that? 
Because it's something that 

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equally intrigues and terrifies 
me. 

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Oh. 
OK, so there's two things. 

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One for me, I wasn't really into
hills. 

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Michael can testify to that. 
I think one day I'd said to Mike

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that I really wanted to do some 
hill running. 

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And remember, we went up Lord 
Arthur's Hill and you're like, 

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right, we'll run up it 8 Times 
Now. 

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I didn't know how far this hill 
was going to be. 

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So we met and we started the run
and then we ran. 

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I think we did it four times and
it's a mile and a I'm sure it's 

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a mile and 1/2 from the bottom 
to the top. 

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And it's like a consistent 
climb. 

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And when we were on, I'd had 
enough and I think I'd probably 

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said some rude things to Mike 
about how I felt about all that.

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And on our way back we met 
another friend who's like quite 

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a big hill runner. 
And we'd said what we did and 

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he, his face was just like, wow,
you need to do some hill races 

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if you can do that. 
And that's kind of when it first

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twigged about that time that 
actually, even though it felt 

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awful, I quite liked it. 
Of late, it's been about 

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statistics for me a little bit 
because, well, two, I'm getting 

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older and finding it harder to 
run competitively especially. 

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And 2nd, not many women do hill 
races, like the number of women 

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that are competing in hill races
is is quite small and I see that

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in my local community. 
And also when you look at the 

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long classics, the number of 
women that are finishing her, 

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it's a very small number. 
And I just felt like why is 

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that? 
So before I can have an opinion 

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on it, I'd quite like to try it 
out. 

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So I tried a couple of years ago
to do all the long classics but 

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I didn't manage to do that but 
just cause of timings. 

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But I did complete the series 
and it they are hard, they're 

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really hard to run, but they're 
not impossible. 

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You just have to train 
differently. 

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So I wouldn't advise anyone just
go in and do 1. 

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Not a long classic without 
having done some of the short 

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hill races, but it they are 
really, really good fun and the 

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people that run them are lovely.
Yeah, I would and wrecking. 

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I think girls on hills are doing
a good job. 

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They're starting to do more 
recchis for women particularly, 

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but are sort of opening the 
doors to set to any adults that 

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is a bit unsure about it. 
But yeah, I like it. 

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I like that they're hard. 
More women need to try hard 

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things. 
I think definitely like as you 

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say, you know, not a lot of 
women that are on the hills and 

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doing the races and I don't 
know, maybe they're thinking the

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same as me. 
I can't do that. 

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I would eaten alive. 
But you know what, just go and 

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do it. 
Yeah. 

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And I am at the end, you know, 
I'm a lot, a lot of the times I 

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am back at the pack and I use 
the start early that you can 

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start an hour early in a lot of 
them now. 

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And that's really great. 
I use that effectively. 

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Now that you've told us that you
really love long classics. 

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Can. 
You go back to the. 

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Start and tell us what long 
classics are. 

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Yeah, I think, I can't remember 
what the specifics are, but it's

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it's to do with the height and 
the distance of the race. 

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So it has to be usually over 20 
K would be about a normal 

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distance. 
It can be anything from 20K to 

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20 miles. 
And the height would normally 

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be, there is like a thing on the
Scottish Hill running page that 

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tells you the actual definition 
of a long classic, but it's to 

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do with how much ascent there 
are. 

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So like, ones I enjoy would be, 
you know, 18 to 20 miles and 

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they would be, you would be 
covering about 3 to 5000 feet of

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ascent in that race. 
It's mostly off path, quite 

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tussocky terrain, river 
crossings, climbing over things 

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that you probably wouldn't 
normally climb over. 

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Yeah, they're good. 
Is Ducker Crowe in a long, long?

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Yeah. 
Yeah, it is. 

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Yeah, it's great. 
It's a really good one. 

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Yeah. 
It's hard. 

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Yeah. 
I've done a lot of them with 

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Beardy, who, I don't know what 
his handle is on social media, 

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but Graham Kelly is his real 
name. 

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Yeah, he's done. 
He's that's it. 

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He's, I've done a lot of them 
with him. 

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I think he enjoys how much I 
moan and get cramped and have to

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shout at him a lot. 
And he's amazing. 

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He just keeps doing it every 
every year. 

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But I mean, my big life goal had
been to do the Ben Nevis Hill 

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race, and I achieved that two 
years ago. 

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So yeah, that was, that was a 
good day. 

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A good day indeed. 
And that's not actually a long 

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classic, but it's still a hard a
hard race. 

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So the Ben Nervous race is 
classed as a medium. 

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I think it's not for if the 
distance is only 11 miles 

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perhaps. 
The other thing you said was 

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about statistics. 
One statistic that I'm aware of 

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is how many races that you've 
done. 

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Are you counting them? 
Yeah. 

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What? 
What numbers Can you? 

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Oh, God, yeah, I do know that. 
I have that here. 

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I keep it in my diary all the 
time. 

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So I've got, I've done 42 
marathons and 86 ultras so far. 

225
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,760
Yeah, that's true. 
I think that's right. 

226
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:17,680
Yeah. 
Yeah, that's right. 

227
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,560
Yeah. 
What's what's the most you've 

228
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,320
done in one year? 
Jenny, have you got that? 

229
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:29,840
Yeah, because that was in 2016, 
two 1016. 

230
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:36,240
So I did a big year for charity 
where I had to run like really 

231
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:41,120
far that year and I ran that 
year 123. 4. 

232
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:52,320
I did 9 marathons and 12 ultras 
that year. 

233
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:57,640
My aunt was a pretty crazy year.
Yeah, daft. 

234
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,400
Yeah, I almost broke myself, to 
be fair. 

235
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,000
So it's into. 
I haven't done that again since.

236
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,640
But yeah, no, it's really good. 
Yeah. 

237
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:14,680
I'm blown away by that, Mike, 
But that's I mean, that's small 

238
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:21,120
fry in the circles that or you 
know, that like, you know, it's 

239
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:25,000
just the D33 on Saturday and I 
was marshalling at that and you 

240
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,920
know, I think there's like Alan 
Cormack was there and Neil 

241
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,400
Mccritchie was there. 
I asked one of them how many 

242
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,360
ultras they'd done and I'm sure 
it was almost 201 of them. 

243
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,120
I mean, and that's. 120. 
Yeah. 

244
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:41,960
So it must have been Neil then. 
Yeah. 

245
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,360
So he's, I'm sure it was like 
190 something he was at at the 

246
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,880
moment. 
And that's just counting the 

247
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,560
official ones. 
Like, I mean, Alan regularly 

248
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:55,480
will go and run, you know, 50-60
miles on a Saturday morning. 

249
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,480
So yeah, it's crazy, really. 
I guess it's, I don't know. 

250
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,440
Yeah. 
If you don't mind me asking, 

251
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,160
Jenny, how old were you when 
you'd done your first ultra? 

252
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,200
I did it in my first one was in 
2013, I think. 

253
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:11,800
Is that right? 
Or 2014? 

254
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:17,640
It was one of those years. 
So yeah, it's been, yeah, 1213 

255
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,160
years. 
And how old were you at that 

256
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,440
point? 
So I'm going to be 50 next year.

257
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,920
So yeah, I was in my late, can't
do the maths. 

258
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,880
How old am I now? 
I'll be 40. 

259
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:39,840
I'll be 49 this year. 
And then 13 years ago, let's say

260
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:46,560
late 3936. 
Yeah, I think that's quite a 

261
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:51,280
common age for people to start 
like, Oh yeah, it's endurance. 

262
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:56,880
Yeah, especially for women. 
I mean, like, physiologically 

263
00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,680
speaking, we perform better in 
long distance just due to, well,

264
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,440
many factors. 
But as we get older, like women 

265
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,760
do tend to do quite well. 
Yeah, it's good. 

266
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:17,080
And for us ladies, as we are 
getting older, we menopause is 

267
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,760
becoming more and more of a wide
unknown topic. 

268
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:25,120
And thankfully more research is 
coming into it now and all 

269
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:32,200
aspects of light or not just 
running for anyone out there, 

270
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:38,600
especially for men, how how does
one navigate running and going 

271
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,920
through menopause? 
And what do I have to look 

272
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,960
forward to in the next few 
years? 

273
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:53,240
Yeah, So really good question. 
So a lot like it's a bit, it's a

274
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,960
bit of a tricky one. 
Obviously menopause is linked to

275
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:05,000
reproductive hormones. 
And we I don't know how much you

276
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,000
know about that. 
I don't know how much you know 

277
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,800
about your biology. 
I'm a biology teacher. 

278
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:16,600
So I teach this quite regularly 
in How You're Human, but we have

279
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:23,320
a limited period where we're 
able to reproduce as women. 

280
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,560
So I don't know. 
You've got like, I know what 

281
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:31,800
average is it, 400 eggs. 
So once they've run out, your 

282
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,400
hormones change. 
So progesterone and estrogen 

283
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,280
levels drop. 
And the problem that has on 

284
00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,720
running is, well, obviously 
you've got the symptoms that 

285
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,800
that creates. 
And lots of women have different

286
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,600
things. 
I get really bad skin or had 

287
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,480
really bad skin. 
It's still quite bad actually. 

288
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:55,160
So like eczema flare ups. 
Some people get like hot 

289
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,920
flashes. 
I've never had that, thankfully.

290
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,800
Anxiety. 
If you've like a lot of studies,

291
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,360
do you know what it's like? 
Like my teenage self came back 

292
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,160
and I was just like, what is 
this? 

293
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,640
This is ridiculous memory. 
That's my current big issue. 

294
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,680
And and then there's just like 
fatigue, like really fatigued 

295
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,200
and it's is all linked to those 
hormones. 

296
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:26,040
So I'm now, so perimenopause is,
is really difficult for a lot of

297
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,840
women and that can start 
anytime, usually in their your 

298
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:36,160
40s, late 40s and mine started 
probably about 45. 

299
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,560
And then after you haven't had 
your periods for a whole year, 

300
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,960
you'd be classed as being post 
menopause like. 

301
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:50,240
So it's a definitive day. 
So that's where I am now and I 

302
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:55,360
take some estrogen which helps 
with all of that and some 

303
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,200
progesterone. 
They're the two hormones. 

304
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,320
So it's a really complicated 
thing of working it out, but it 

305
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,600
has played absolute havoc with 
my running. 

306
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:07,720
So the only like estrogen 
affects your bones and my mom 

307
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,160
has osteopenia, which is when 
your, your bones aren't as 

308
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,120
strong. 
So like I've obviously I'm quite

309
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,720
obsessed with bone density. 
So hill running's quite good for

310
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:23,960
bone density, thankfully. 
And resistance training, going 

311
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,760
to the gym, all these things. 
I've joined the gym and I'm 

312
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,800
trying to do a bit a bit more of
that. 

313
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,560
Well, I didn't realize it's 
linked to your heart as well. 

314
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,560
So I find that like sometimes my
heart rhythm can be really off. 

315
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:39,080
That's like something that 
hadn't really, I only learned 

316
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,920
about that recently. 
There's a really good book by a 

317
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,360
woman called Stacey Sims. 
It was Debbie Martin Konsani had

318
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:51,960
flagged it and I got that. 
So any anybody like like I would

319
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,680
recommend all women to read that
book because I actually changed 

320
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,120
like my whole life. 
I think her and Karen had been 

321
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,680
like shouting out about this 
amazing book. 

322
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,960
It's called Next Level. 
And there's another one as well 

323
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,280
called Roar, which is another 
book that's sort of quite female

324
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,400
based and all about exercise and
running. 

325
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,880
So trial and error, you've just 
got to read as much as you can 

326
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,520
about it. 
And thankfully there's loads of 

327
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,280
info out there like Damian 
Hall's just written a new book. 

328
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,200
I haven't read it, so I can't 
endorse it really, but it's all 

329
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,840
about, there's a whole section 
in it apparently about menopause

330
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,400
and how to deal with running 
when you're old. 

331
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,640
And he also talks about the male
perspective, which is often 

332
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,000
forgotten because I think 
getting old is a thing for men 

333
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,040
as well. 
And I think we're kind of only 

334
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,560
now just starting to be better 
at talking about that as well. 

335
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,960
I know some of my friends joke 
about having the menopause, but,

336
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,920
you know, I think there is scope
there when, you know, women are 

337
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,320
moaning, blaming everything on 
menopause. 

338
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,320
I think men have their own 
issues with running when they 

339
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,200
get older. 
So yeah, sorry I was a bit of a 

340
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,800
rant. 
No at all. 

341
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,280
I quite, I quite like talking 
about the menopause because it's

342
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,040
like it's dominated my life for 
the last five years. 

343
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,200
Well, we haven't had anybody on 
talking about them before. 

344
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,680
So, OK, yeah. 
Feel free. 

345
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:28,240
It's quite common now. 
Like I do find that I help out 

346
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,560
some, well actually don't help 
out as much as I did, but I've 

347
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,960
got friends that are running Jog
Scotland groups in the village 

348
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,840
and we kind of work together. 
I'm in a running club, I'm a 

349
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,040
coach actually in a running club
locally and we've got a partner 

350
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,240
Jog Scotland Group. 
And quite often when we have 

351
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:51,160
like a leaders get together, men
and women, I may add, we do talk

352
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,160
a lot about who's on what 
collagen and who's been taking 

353
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,520
creatine and what the best brand
is. 

354
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,680
You know, long gone are the days
of where's the best nightclub? 

355
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,720
It's now like what supplements 
are you taking? 

356
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,480
But I must say vitamin D, we 
don't get enough vitamin, we 

357
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,920
don't take on enough vitamin D 
in Scotland and especially with 

358
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,120
menopause, vitamin D is, is a, 
is a big issue. 

359
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,920
So that would be like, if you 
don't agree with taking anything

360
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,240
but you will take something, 
then I would advise that either 

361
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:31,840
get more sunshine or take some 
supplements because it's huge, 

362
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,920
makes a huge difference, 
especially for like your bone 

363
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,600
density as well. 
Who is your running club, Jenny?

364
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:44,720
I am in the Inch Trail running 
club, ITRC. 

365
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,680
So yeah, we're 10 years. 
We've been affiliated to 

366
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,920
Scottish Athletics this year, so
that's a biggie. 

367
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,240
So yeah, it's good. 
Small. 

368
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,600
We're a small group. 
Good things come in small 

369
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:07,720
packages, correct? 
And to pull the conversation 

370
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,000
away from menopause. 
Yeah. 

371
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:15,120
Bob Graham round It's a a dirty 
word. 

372
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,160
Dirty name. 
Bit of a nemesis for you. 

373
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:25,600
Tell us, how many times have you
attempted it, Why it hasn't 

374
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,280
worked out? 
And come before that, why the 

375
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,840
Bob Graham round? 
Wow, I love that round. 

376
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:42,000
I love it and hate it equally. 
So yeah, it's, well, I've 

377
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:49,000
attempted it properly twice. 
And then when did we go down? 

378
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,960
Can you remember how long ago 
was that? 

379
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,480
It was a long time ago now. 
Anyway, the first two attempts I

380
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,440
probably did were after COVID 
actually, you know, when 

381
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,560
lockdown lifted and you could 
travel to England again. 

382
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,680
The weekend after that is when I
attempted it and it was, I swear

383
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,800
in my life it was the fittest 
I've ever been in my life 

384
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,000
because I ran the most 
consistently I've ever run 

385
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,320
through lockdown. 
I was really, really, really 

386
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,200
ready for it. 
But it, it went really pear 

387
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,840
shaped. 
I'd spent 10 years rekeying it 

388
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:33,560
and the reason I was asking Mike
is Mike and my friend Rob 

389
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,560
Sinclair or our friend Rob 
Sinclair and another friend Kev 

390
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:43,080
Steven, like all came with me. 
I managed to convince them to 

391
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,640
come and help me recce the 
majority of the route. 

392
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:52,560
So we went down for a week and 
spent a lot of time there and 

393
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,200
it's my family all come from the
Lake District. 

394
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:00,760
So my mum grew up there and my 
uncle was there and he told me 

395
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,680
about it and he joked and said 
that he didn't think I could do 

396
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,280
it and he didn't. 
Do you know? 

397
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:15,160
I spoke to him recently, he 
passed away a year ago and we 

398
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:18,800
actually joked about it before 
he died. 

399
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,920
I went to to visit him and he 
was not great and I reminded him

400
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:30,840
of it and actually he he did 
laugh because he actually 

401
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,280
backtracked and said that he 
did. 

402
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,280
He now knew that I was capable 
and that he really looked 

403
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,200
forward to the day that I did 
it. 

404
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,360
And that was almost like a curse
'cause I'd kind of put it to bed

405
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:46,000
a little bit after my 2 failed 
attempts. 

406
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,080
And then now I was like, Oh no, 
now I really do need to do it 

407
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,600
again, 'cause you know how we 
have this emotional attachment 

408
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,680
to people in our lives, we feel 
we need to do it for them. 

409
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,400
So it's back. 
But yeah, I did it. 

410
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,440
I tried it twice. 
The first time was just after 

411
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,600
lockdown and I did it with a few
friends. 

412
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,400
It's quite complicated. 
I don't. 

413
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:07,800
Do you know much about it, 
Nikki? 

414
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,480
Not a tremendous amount, but I 
do know, Yeah. 

415
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,800
And you've got the other rounds 
like Charlie Ramsey, Paddy 

416
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,640
Buckley. 
I know about those, yeah. 

417
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,280
So it's the easiest of the 
three. 

418
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,440
It's the one that you can run 
the most. 

419
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,320
So you know, it's it is a nice 
one to do. 

420
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,000
And it also the access points 
are really quite handy for your 

421
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,360
crew. 
Like you can meet people like 

422
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:37,680
quite, quite reasonably. 
So I had like a really good 

423
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,480
team. 
I had all, all the I had people 

424
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,000
on every leg. 
It was great. 

425
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:49,400
But I didn't eat enough. 
And when I don't eat enough, I 

426
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,360
get really sick. 
And I just was, so I'll, it was 

427
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,000
horrendous. 
And on the, the third leg, so 

428
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,920
it's kind of in the middle, I 
just could not stop being sick. 

429
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:03,280
And then it started to snow, 
like really heavily snow. 

430
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,880
And I just was like, this is 
ridiculous. 

431
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,440
Like I'm actually going to get 
into trouble because I'm not 

432
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:13,160
like I hadn't really thought 
through snow at that point. 

433
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,920
So I bailed and it's really easy
to build at that point. 

434
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,960
And then I went back to try it 
again another time and decided 

435
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:30,360
to do it the other way around, 
which is genius now because I 

436
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,720
didn't succeed that time, mostly
because of the weather. 

437
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,160
It was very hot and I was 
struggling in the heat and I 

438
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:43,720
hadn't run in the heat for a 
long time and I couldn't like in

439
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:49,000
order to cool down enough that I
didn't feel ill and keep moving.

440
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,920
I would lose the time and then I
wouldn't have made it in under 

441
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,040
24. 
And I was so close to doing it 

442
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,920
that it slipped away too quickly
and there would be no way. 

443
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,520
I knew I didn't have the ability
to make it up and I would have 

444
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,760
ended up finishing. 
I think my predicted time would 

445
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:13,800
have been closer to 30 hours by 
the time I would have finished, 

446
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,320
so yeah, I didn't really want to
do that. 

447
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,440
So yeah, failed twice. 
Third time lucky, some would 

448
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,040
say. 
Our our recce was 2016 because 

449
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,760
I've got a photo on Facebook of 
looking shocked, as he does when

450
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,840
he takes a selfie of himself and
myself and Rob taps half in the 

451
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,160
background. 
Grassmere. 

452
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,880
That'd be about right. 
Have you done any of the other 

453
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,720
bones on the legs? 
Yeah. 

454
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,600
So I've done the tea round three
times. 

455
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:53,320
So I did it once in winter with 
Beardy, and then I did it once 

456
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,880
in summer with some friends. 
And then I've done it again 

457
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,480
another time with some other 
people. 

458
00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,800
Yeah. 
So I've done it a few times. 

459
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,440
Yeah, I've done quite a lot. 
Rounds in the lakes. 

460
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,520
Yeah, there's a few. 
Yeah. 

461
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,840
They're good with Ethan. 
You didn't eat enough. 

462
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:18,000
Do you know the reason? 
Like, did you just forget or 

463
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,080
were you just so focused on the 
actual run? 

464
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,440
How how was the case? 
Oh, I'm just a really lazy 

465
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,520
eater. 
Like I'll go for like, I know 

466
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,680
like I can tell you like the 
textbook, like what you have to 

467
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,160
do. 
Like I know I need 40 grams 

468
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:40,320
every 40 minutes and like, and I
can't eat that much sugar and it

469
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,960
has to be this and that and the 
other thing. 

470
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,600
But when it comes down to 
actually doing it, I used to be 

471
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,360
quite bad at it. 
I'm a lot better now. 

472
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,400
I think that's the other thing 
about menopause is that's 

473
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,680
changed what I can and can't 
eat. 

474
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,960
And I'm actually better now at 
eating because I hate feeling 

475
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,800
that miserable now. 
So it'll be interesting to see 

476
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,400
actually how I'd get on. 
I'm not very good. 

477
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,000
Like I can't I can't even watch.
Like when did you do you, Mike? 

478
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,320
You put a video on one day of 
you like drinking a can of cold 

479
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,000
soup or something. 
And I like honestly that even 

480
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,080
made me want to be sick just 
watching you drinking that made 

481
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,640
me feel ill. 
Like I just don't have that. 

482
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,280
Like I can't even eat. 
I can't eat anything. 

483
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,160
Like West Highland Way always 
makes me laugh because people 

484
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,760
eat things like custard out of a
tub and rice puddings and like I

485
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,520
can't, I just can't. 
Like it just makes me want a gag

486
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,920
instantly thinking about it. 
So it's taken me like a really 

487
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,240
long time to find what I can eat
and it's really boring. 

488
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,920
It's fruit jellies, specifically
Marks and Spencer's. 

489
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:50,240
Fruit jellies has got to be posh
like and they don't even cost 

490
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,200
that much really, but I can eat 
them. 

491
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,080
And and they've got what, 0 
calories in them? 

492
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,640
No, I think they're quite good. 
Yeah, I would question it. 

493
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,480
Yeah, they're all right. 
Active root's good. 

494
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,520
I like quite like active root's 
been a bit of a game changer for

495
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,680
me. 
It works well. 

496
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,840
And cheese Baby Bells. 
I love a baby bell and some 

497
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,800
crisps, but if I'm doing 
something like a marathon or 

498
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,760
something where I've got to 
actually run fast, I do find 

499
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:25,800
those active root gels are 
pretty good. 

500
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,520
I've just tried them this year 
or last year. 

501
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,480
I actually really, really like 
them. 

502
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,280
They're all right. 
And torque, I've always used 

503
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,240
torque gels for the since the 
dawn of time. 

504
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,280
The rebarbing custard ones 
particularly. 

505
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,280
I can eat, get them. 
I can cope with that. 

506
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,920
So I am getting, I don't know. 
Yeah, I'll still be rubbish. 

507
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,400
I'll still probably mess up. 
I quite like a pasta pot, you 

508
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,200
know, like they're all right. 
I don't mind them. 

509
00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:00,160
And yet I always forget though 
tried to eat a Pot Noodle once 

510
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,560
in Granton when they did the 
Murray 100. 

511
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,960
That did not end well. 
So we'll do that again. 

512
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,719
What flavour? 
It was chicken and mushroom, 

513
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,120
which I'm not. 
I don't know if I've ever had 

514
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,120
one of them before. 
But yeah, there was. 

515
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,440
It was funny because it was by 
the time I got to Granton, like 

516
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,480
you've only got like 20 miles 
left, so you're 80 miles in. 

517
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:29,480
And I, they were, by the time I 
got to the checkpoint, it's 

518
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,440
right next to the pub. 
And there was like this group of

519
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:38,840
young adults being sick outside 
and they were on one side of the

520
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,360
bench from boozing and I was on 
the other side of the bench 

521
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,199
being sick from a Pot Noodle. 
It was so bad. 

522
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,760
I was like, oh gosh, here we 
are. 

523
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,560
It's the evolution of humans, 
so. 

524
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:58,400
The fruit jellies have got about
100 calories per tub, so it'll 

525
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,760
get you about a mile. 
Is that all, isn't it? 

526
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,760
They taste good. 
I'll tell you what, Jenny, 100 

527
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,640
calories is better than nothing.
Yeah, well, that's that's 

528
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,920
probably all I was putting in 
the last time. 

529
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,880
I do quite like a bit of 
Christmas cake on a run. 

530
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,560
That's a novel one. 
Yeah. 

531
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,720
Right, Bob Graham round 
obviously hasn't happened. 

532
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,960
So I I would imagine that that 
would be your biggest running 

533
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,080
achievement when you complete 
it. 

534
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,720
But. 
To date, what has been your 

535
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:41,240
biggest running achievement? 
Probably the Lake Sky Ultra, the

536
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,880
1st edition. 
You know, the old school 1 

537
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,400
before they took Pinnacle Ridge 
out because they have changed it

538
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,880
now. 
But that that one, that was 

539
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,080
awful. 
Like it was probably one of the 

540
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:00,160
hard to date, one of the hardest
races that I've ever completed. 

541
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,000
Yeah. 
And that was really tough. 

542
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:09,920
And it was like, I'm just trying
to look it up on Strava because 

543
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,880
I know I probably wrote some 
really funny things about it, 

544
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,800
but it took like, I think I was 
quite possibly. 

545
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:26,360
Yeah, I find it. 
So it was 37 miles with 14,000 

546
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,680
feet of a cent. 
Well, nearly 15,000 feet of a 

547
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,840
cent. 
And it took me 13 1/2 hours, 

548
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,560
which is actually quite good. 
I was actually, I wasn't very 

549
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,600
pleased with that at the time. 
But when I look back, I'm 

550
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,400
thinking, wow, that's actually 
pretty cute. 

551
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,880
And it was just so hard. 
And there's this video of me 

552
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:55,240
that exists where there was this
RAF paratrooper type person who 

553
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:58,720
was filming and at the bottom of
Pinnacle Ridge. 

554
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:03,720
So when you go up Pinnacle Ridge
on some Sunday, Craig, they put 

555
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:09,560
rope, a bit of rope in so that 
you can like not fall off 

556
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,760
basically, but somebody had 
stolen the rope. 

557
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:14,800
So you just had to like do it 
yourself. 

558
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,400
And there's like amazing 
photographs of like pro runners 

559
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,680
and they all look really 
impressive where they're like 

560
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,320
skipping across these tiny 
little pinnacles of rock. 

561
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,040
And then there's me in this 
video. 

562
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,320
And the guy that was doing the 
film him was a a guy called Ben.

563
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,040
And I, I can't tell you his last
name. 

564
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,080
I wouldn't even know how to find
him now, but I could probably 

565
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,200
find the video. 
And he's saying, come on, 

566
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,320
Jenkins, you can do it. 
And I'm like literally sitting 

567
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:46,520
crying at the bottom. 
So I follow him up and every now

568
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,560
and again he sort of like pans 
back. 

569
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,320
And at one point there's on this
tiny little pinnacle where 

570
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,280
there's, I'm sure there's a 
photograph of Rob Sinclair, like

571
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,320
looking really badass, like 
looking like some the most 

572
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,080
amazing runner ever. 
And I was belly flopping onto 

573
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,720
that Ridge with this woman, like
with her hand out trying to pull

574
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:08,800
me up over these little 
pinnacles. 

575
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,400
So I was like, oh, there, there 
goes my amazing photograph of 

576
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,840
looking like a badass runner. 
But it was also driving with 

577
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,720
rain and it was a little bit 
windy. 

578
00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:23,600
So it wasn't probably the best 
time for a good, good thing. 

579
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,800
But yeah, I was really proud of 
myself that day, and then the 

580
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,640
next day I went and hit another 
Sky race. 

581
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,840
So I simply entered 2 in two 
days. 

582
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:39,560
So I did the Scaffold Sky Race 
the next day and it was glorious

583
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:42,960
sunshine and I had an amazing 
time because it was only 20 

584
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,880
miles and super easy in 
comparison. 

585
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,200
So yeah, it was good. 
But Sky Races are brilliant 

586
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,440
because they mark it all out. 
You don't even have to navigate,

587
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,760
you just have to follow these 
little flags and hope you don't 

588
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:55,000
die. 
It's brilliant. 

589
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,840
So yeah, I'm proud of that. 
I didn't get timed out. 

590
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,200
That's a miracle. 
See, funnily enough, Jerry, my 

591
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:08,160
very first trail event was the 
10K Salomon Skyline last year 

592
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,960
that they done it at Kenlock. 
Leave him one of my friends in 

593
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,160
1-2 places and says, oh, I think
you'll enjoy this the most out 

594
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,720
of all my friends and see that 
that completely changed my 

595
00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:26,480
course of running because I've 
done the Glasgow half marathon. 

596
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,800
I think it was like 3 weeks 
after two weeks after and I 

597
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,440
remember thinking to myself, I 
hate this. 

598
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,240
I just want to be back and Ken 
Luck leave and doing that 10K 

599
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:41,920
and I know what you mean about 
the flags and yeah, brilliant 

600
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,440
time. 
Yeah, you're also a bit late. 

601
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,160
How did I get here and where am 
I? 

602
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,000
Yeah, they're great. 
They're great races, really 

603
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,080
great races. 
It's a shame that, well, it's 

604
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,160
all a bit unknown now for 
Scotland. 

605
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:03,000
So this week's recent news about
Aria events. 

606
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:08,520
So be interesting to see what 
happens because obviously like 

607
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,200
the Sky Race, there's only, 
well, there's the one in the 

608
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,840
Lakes and there's the one in 
Wales. 

609
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,320
So it'd be interesting to see if
somebody takes on in Scotland. 

610
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,440
Very interesting to see when 
UTMB try and take it over. 

611
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,400
Well, yeah, that's true. 
That is true. 

612
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,800
And put the price up by about 
four times. 

613
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,840
I know, I know. 
And then changed the route last 

614
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,440
minute. 
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if

615
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,600
what's happened. 
I mean, I don't know how much 

616
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,720
you know about UTS, but 
obviously I've got a lot of 

617
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:43,960
close friends that are involved 
in the race and, you know, 

618
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:49,680
they've the, the National Park 
have dictated like the roots for

619
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:54,200
UTS because there's so many 
people and it's a protected 

620
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,920
site. 
So, you know, they were told 

621
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,520
where, you know, they were 
categorically told where they 

622
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,080
were allowed those runners to 
go. 

623
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:08,080
So it is a shame. 
I do really feel for ultra 

624
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,000
Snowdonia just now. 
It's like it it must be hard 

625
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,560
because it's not their fault, 
but it's just so many runners. 

626
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:21,120
And I think if that was to 
happen in Glencoe, we'd have the

627
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,960
same situation because I think 
it's already on the verge of the

628
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,560
number of people being quite 
high as it is. 

629
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,560
So. 
And there is a lot that they do.

630
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,200
We do have to preserve the land 
as well. 

631
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,960
Yeah, Fields. 
They really are for everyone. 

632
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,800
Yeah, I agree. 
Yeah. 

633
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,800
But then you can guess like, you
know, there are other things 

634
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,680
like the long classics, you 
know, they don't they barely 

635
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,720
fill. 
Like some of them are more 

636
00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:54,880
popular, like Stuka Kronos does 
gets a good, good turn out, but 

637
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,840
some of them are quite low in 
entries. 

638
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,800
But they offer the same thrill. 
It's just not flagged. 

639
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,000
Was it terrifying? 
Jenny, it's not that bad. 

640
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,320
I'll take you on one. 
Come and join me one day. 

641
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,400
I think you'll need to. 
I mean, I was looking at the 

642
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,840
whole calendar and I've looked 
at it the last couple of years 

643
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,200
and spoke to be all day as well 
about it. 

644
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,320
And he's like, oh, I just put 
one in and there's a tiny one 

645
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,000
local to me called the YE West. 
Oh, yeah, I've heard about that.

646
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,360
It's only 7 K and it's really 
not that. 

647
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,040
Oh, you have to do it. 
Oh, it's terrifying. 

648
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,120
These are races won't happen 
without volunteers, first aid, 

649
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,360
etcetera, etcetera. 
And you just said that you were 

650
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,680
doing first aid at D33 at the 
weekend. 

651
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,600
Tell us, how did you get into 
that and what is the worst thing

652
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:59,720
you've had to deal with? 
Yeah, no, that was quite 

653
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:04,520
interesting this weekend. 
So there was Sean is on, I think

654
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:11,640
he's on holiday or something. 
Anyway, so he gave me everything

655
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:17,800
that I needed through Julie and 
yeah, it was D33 was easy. 

656
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,080
We didn't have anything much to 
deal with. 

657
00:43:20,240 --> 00:43:21,760
It was good. 
Nice day. 

658
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:29,600
I've been doing, I do first aid 
through the ultra community. 

659
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,920
So I went on, I mean, I've had a
first aid certificate for years.

660
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,520
I'm a first aid at work anyway. 
But I decided to do the outdoor 

661
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:42,440
first aid in Dundee with some of
the other marshals from ultra 

662
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:47,080
races and Sean Stone sort of 
organizes it all for us and then

663
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,520
we get deployed in various 
races. 

664
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,720
So I'm in the medical team, 
probably for the Devil Highland 

665
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:58,040
Fling W Highway this year. 
So I'll be all three of those in

666
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,720
my little green waistcoat, 
hopefully helping some people 

667
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:08,200
out. 
And I guess my experience in a 

668
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,440
school probably plays quite well
to ultra runners 'cause it's 

669
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:18,200
usually moaning teenagers who 
are passing out or fainting or 

670
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,680
being sick. 
So that's much the same as ultra

671
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,800
runners in the same temperament.
And that kind of side of it I 

672
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,880
can deal with quite, quite well.
I did. 

673
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:36,360
There is a story from the D30, 
no, from the devil. 

674
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,840
It must have been about 10 years
ago now, and I was helping out 

675
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:45,520
in first aid and thankfully 
Laura was there with Sean and 

676
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,040
Neil was the main medic at the 
time. 

677
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,560
So I'd kind of been partnered up
with Neil and we were whizzing 

678
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,400
around the place everywhere. 
And then somebody would fall in 

679
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,880
and cut their hand open and he 
had to stitch it back together. 

680
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,720
And all of a sudden there was a 
call that they needed to get a 

681
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:05,200
cup of tea with lots of sugar in
it. 

682
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,080
Quick to the medic tent. 
So in Russia's Laura with a cup 

683
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:10,920
of tea. 
And it was for me because I was 

684
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,760
so squeamish, I couldn't cope 
and I just went white. 

685
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:20,040
So what I learned about being a 
medic is I'm quite good at the 

686
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,600
anything that doesn't involve 
having to stitch somebody back 

687
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,640
together, like the blood, but 
I'm actually OK. 

688
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,240
But it was just, I've discovered
that watching anyone getting no 

689
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,840
needles, not my bag. 
The worst thing that I've ever 

690
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,200
come across though, is probably 
when I wasn't working as a 

691
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,240
Marshall, but I was a 
participant and when I did 

692
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:51,840
Lakeland 100 a few years ago, I,
the people, and you've maybe 

693
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,160
heard the story, I don't know. 
But what happened is there's a 

694
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,400
bit in the race at Wasdale where
there's no signal, so you kind 

695
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,560
of all the trackers go off and 
then you sort of reappear later 

696
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,560
on in the route. 
So they kind of watch for that. 

697
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,440
So it's a bit of a dead spot. 
So you don't really want to come

698
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,160
across any problems in there. 
And it was, it must have been 

699
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,480
nearing midnight. 
I would have said we're climbing

700
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,800
up out of Lisdale on our way to 
Buttermere. 

701
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,320
And I could see in front of me 
there was I could hear people 

702
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,160
talking and asking questions. 
And then the closer I got, I 

703
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,000
could hear people saying, are 
you OK? 

704
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,280
And then I could see that it was
slowing down and we were in like

705
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,520
a a total queue at this point of
people. 

706
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,000
So it's a quite a big race. 
And that's quite early in the 

707
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,400
race. 
And I was getting, I remember 

708
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,520
being annoyed because it was 
cold and I hadn't put my jacket 

709
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,720
on. 
I just had a long sleeve top on.

710
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:54,640
I was thinking I'm going to have
to put my jacket on. 

711
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:56,840
But it's a queue, you know, I 
didn't want to lose. 

712
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:00,160
I don't want to get stuck behind
anybody because I was wanting to

713
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,960
push on. 
So I was going for a faster time

714
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:11,600
and then eventually I came 
across legs on the path and 

715
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:17,160
everyone was stepping over this 
man that was lying on the path 

716
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,760
asking him if he was OK. 
And by the time I got to him he 

717
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:25,520
wasn't responding at all. 
And I didn't really know what to

718
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,040
do. 
And because I'm a first aider, I

719
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:34,520
knew that I couldn't not well 
and a human and I'm couldn't not

720
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,360
I couldn't climb over somebody 
that wasn't responding. 

721
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,960
So I stopped and put my jacket 
on anyway. 

722
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,040
And then when I went to try and 
speak to this man who was 

723
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:49,080
completely out and I like, I 
didn't know what to do. 

724
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,000
So I was trying to revive him. 
You know, when you go and you do

725
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,840
your first aid trainings, like 
hello, hello, can you hear me? 

726
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,440
That kind of thing. 
So I was doing that and trying 

727
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:04,240
to get him to make some sense 
and I was trying to move him out

728
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:07,560
of the way 'cause people were 
now sort of trying to get past 

729
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:12,200
me and him. 
And then nobody was really 

730
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,680
stopping. 
And I, my friend Louise in the 

731
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,680
fire brigade and Louise 
Greenwood, she's in the fire 

732
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:23,200
brigade and she was behind me. 
And then when she got to me, she

733
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,040
was like, what's going on here? 
And she was amazing. 

734
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:30,680
At this point, I'm like, crying 
because I went into shock 

735
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:32,520
because I couldn't get him to 
speak. 

736
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,880
And he was totally grey. 
He looked dead. 

737
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,840
His lips had gone, like, dark 
blue. 

738
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,760
And it was dark and it was windy
and it was raining. 

739
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,160
And I couldn't like, you know, 
when I was doing all the things 

740
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,040
in the book, you know, pressed 
to see if the blood comes back. 

741
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,640
And it couldn't. 
It wasn't doing anything. 

742
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:55,680
And he's lying on a rocky path. 
And I'm, like, trying to get him

743
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,040
in the recovery position, but I 
don't think he's breathing. 

744
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:00,480
You know, it was just like, it 
was wild. 

745
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,840
And you couldn't hear the 
breath. 

746
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,720
You couldn't see his chest move 
in. 

747
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:08,200
I was, and I really did. 
I was like totally panicking. 

748
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:13,120
And it must have been minutes 
between me finding him to Louise

749
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,920
coming up to me. 
But it felt like, I don't know, 

750
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,120
it felt like an hour. 
It was horrible. 

751
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,800
But she just went straight in 
and she just, she could see that

752
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,760
I was stressed and I didn't and 
was panicking. 

753
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,840
So I was like wasn't 
communicating very well. 

754
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,800
So she gave me her, she had a 
big jacket. 

755
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,560
She just pulled the big jacket 
out of her bag. 

756
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,160
She pulled a bivvy bag out of 
her bag and she was getting him 

757
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,160
into the bivvy bag. 
And she gave me her phone and 

758
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,200
told me to go up for she said 
time it. 

759
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,280
I want you to go up as fast as 
you can for 10 minutes and get 

760
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,760
see if you get a signal. 
And if you get no signal, come 

761
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,560
back. 
And in the meantime, another 

762
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,600
Scottish runner actually had 
stopped. 

763
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,080
So there was now three of us. 
So she was like, we'll do this, 

764
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,480
you go get help. 
So it went up, did exactly what 

765
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:06,280
she said, went up for 10 minutes
and then to the just to the top 

766
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,880
of the Crest of the hill. 
Still no signal. 

767
00:50:09,240 --> 00:50:11,880
So then came back down and by 
the time I came back down, 

768
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,920
they'd got him into the BV bag 
and he was starting to come too.

769
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,560
And it was actually what was 
wrong was, well, he was cold, so

770
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,720
he was probably a hypothermic, 
but he hadn't eaten anything. 

771
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,680
And I can't remember how many 
miles, Mike, you'll know better 

772
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,840
the stats of that race, but it 
must be about 20 miles maybe. 

773
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,720
Is it? 
No, maybe not even that. 

774
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,520
It's not a massive, it's not 
massively far into the race. 

775
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:42,880
But in time wise, if you start 
at 5, is it 5:00 or 6:00? 

776
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,280
The race starts and we were now 
midnight. 

777
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:47,520
So you hadn't eaten anything for
six hours. 

778
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,560
And it's, it's not massively 
difficult terrain, but you're 

779
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:56,000
still out for a long time. 
And it turned, I think he had, 

780
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,640
he just hadn't eaten enough and 
then got very cold and he was in

781
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,120
little shorts and AT shirt. 
So by the time they'd heated him

782
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,800
up. 
So I learned a lot that day. 

783
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,280
I actually got some counseling 
and beer deorganized counseling 

784
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:12,240
for me through mountain rescue, 
actually. 

785
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,160
And it was really great. 
And they phoned and they spoke 

786
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:16,320
to me and they're like, you know
what? 

787
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,760
Everything you did, you know was
right and you've learned loads 

788
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,040
and you've reflected loads and 
what you would do and actually 

789
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,680
all worked out quite well. 
And in the meantime we'd got 

790
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,760
other people to get help at 
Buttermere. 

791
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,920
So Mountain Rescue did get 
called and there's nine new 

792
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,760
safety protocols in the race 
because there wasn't a sweeper 

793
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:41,920
and the trackers we'd sent set 
the alarm off on the tracker, 

794
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,000
but they hadn't been at that 
time. 

795
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,040
They didn't use that safety 
protocol in the race. 

796
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,200
So it had flagged in their 
system, but there wasn't a 

797
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:56,040
person to pick up the flag, so 
nobody knew that we'd needed 

798
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:02,080
help. 
And then myself and Stuart and 

799
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:07,160
Louise, the three of us got him 
off the path basically, and we 

800
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:12,480
basically escorted him down to 
the last checkpoint, back down 

801
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,560
to Asdale. 
And they were just about to 

802
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,720
leave the checkpoint by the time
we got there. 

803
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:21,800
So really lucky because actually
Mountain Rescue hadn't at that 

804
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,840
point been alerted, so I don't 
know what would have happened to

805
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:27,760
him. 
Anyway, we got a free place in 

806
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,880
the race. 
So I'm doing it this year 

807
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:33,920
actually. 
So I'm going to have another 

808
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,120
bash. 
But yes, we'll see how that 

809
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,200
goes. 
But it's pretty crazy. 

810
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,000
We then liked it all the way 
back. 

811
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,440
So we ran all the way back to 
Buttermere, but we missed the 

812
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:46,800
cut off by like a minute and 
what's good, but we'd used all 

813
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,120
my we'd used all our stuff like 
I'd used all my safety 

814
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:54,040
equipment. 
Everything was soaking and it we

815
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:58,960
were now had done an an extra 10
miles something mad like that. 

816
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,880
By the time we'd run up and 
down, fannied about an 

817
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,880
adrenaline like I think if we'd 
carried on ourselves. 

818
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:08,240
So it was good that we didn't 
finish, but it was a bit sad. 

819
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:10,320
So that was the worst thing I've
ever seen. 

820
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:12,600
So it sounds. 
A bit dramatic. 

821
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,240
It wasn't actually as dramatic 
in the end, but you just, I 

822
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:19,040
don't know, when you come across
somebody in, in the like, in the

823
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,240
wild, I felt a bit like that, 
you know, and like when you do 

824
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:24,720
all these things, first aid 
courses, you didn't like this 

825
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:29,880
really fake environment where 
like, it's really easy because 

826
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,880
they're already lying on, you 
know, usually the, you know, the

827
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,640
resuscitation doll is on its 
back. 

828
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:39,600
So it's like all set up exactly 
how you'd want it. 

829
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,160
It's kind of weird. 
So yeah, there you go. 

830
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:44,160
That's the worst thing I've ever
come across. 

831
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,440
And he was OK, the guy good. 
Have you talked to him again 

832
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:49,240
since? 
Yeah, he's. 

833
00:53:49,240 --> 00:53:51,040
Raging, he was raging. 
He was. 

834
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,200
Absolutely. 
Raging because he because you 

835
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,920
didn't stop his garment. 
Yeah, well. 

836
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,880
No, we didn't, actually. 
We let it keep going. 

837
00:54:01,720 --> 00:54:08,560
He didn't believe us that it was
that bad. 

838
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:14,000
So yeah, never mind. 
I think maybe he's got over it 

839
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:15,960
now. 
But yeah, it was pretty scary. 

840
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,600
It was pretty scary from our 
point of view. 

841
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:22,280
And I'm really glad that not 
only was the three of us, but 

842
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:25,000
actually a few other friends had
stopped because I know quite a 

843
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,600
lot of people that do that race.
And a lot of people were had 

844
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,680
witnessed it 'cause I, you know,
the first thing you do, I don't 

845
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,720
know if you 2 are like that, 
but, you know, when somebody 

846
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:38,920
says, oh, that's not what 
happened automatically, I'm 

847
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,000
like, oh, was I wrong? 
Maybe I didn't, maybe that 

848
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,920
didn't happen. 
Maybe I made it all up. 

849
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,880
You know, you start like dieting
yourself instantly. 

850
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:51,960
But thankfully, like, you know, 
Stuart and Louise both were 

851
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,960
like, yeah, that was, you know, 
they were both involved in it. 

852
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,800
And actually they spent more 
time with him. 

853
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,720
Louise was really worried for a 
while. 

854
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,760
She was like, that was a lucky 
escape that we got on when we 

855
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:08,160
did. 
Possibly on a lighter note, if 

856
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,640
you if. 
You imagine this if you were 

857
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:17,680
marshalling, doing first aid on 
a hill race, somebody came up to

858
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:21,440
you. 
They'd fallen over during the 

859
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,400
the last leg. 
Not their last leg, but the last

860
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:26,640
leg of the race. 
Yeah. 

861
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:28,760
And they had blood dripping down
their leg. 

862
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,000
And they? 
'D taken a bit of duct tape and 

863
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,720
patched up their wound. 
What would you say to them? 

864
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:40,840
Go see Neil. 
Well, OK. 

865
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,680
So I know. 
I know it might suffer ring to. 

866
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:49,560
So when I did the Benrinus Hill 
race I might have fallen on the 

867
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:56,120
descent of Benrinus and I cut 
open my knee and I put a bit of 

868
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,320
duct tape on my knee to hold the
skin on. 

869
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:03,680
And when I got to the Marshall 
they said that if I carried on 

870
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,360
I'd be disqualified and I 
carried on. 

871
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,200
And when I got to the finish I 
had to go to hospital and get 

872
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:16,240
stitches and then I got banned 
from the race but they let me 

873
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:20,760
back in now, so it's OK. 
It was. 

874
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:22,560
Really bad. 
I didn't realize how bad it. 

875
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:27,520
Was I was so adrenaline fueled 
and I, I feel really bad now. 

876
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:33,160
Like, yeah, that was a lesson. 
I, I got really told off. 

877
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:38,480
Like really told off. 
So yeah, but I don't think that 

878
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:40,520
happens in ultras. 
So much I don't. 

879
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:43,680
Think people or it didn't happen
so much in those days that 

880
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:48,240
people were so rude as I was. 
Do you know though I do think. 

881
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:49,760
About it quite a lot, I do feel,
really. 

882
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:52,840
Bad 'cause I've never been able 
to find who that who that 

883
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,720
Marshall was. 
And like, I don't think I 

884
00:56:55,720 --> 00:56:58,000
really, I think I thought they 
were joking. 

885
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,760
You know, I honestly didn't 
realize it was so bad till I got

886
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,160
to the tent. 
And actually the the hospital 

887
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:09,600
staff in Dufton were delighted 
'cause they Marshall the race 

888
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,560
every year and they never get 
any injuries and they had a 

889
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,960
great time. 
They got the wire brush out and 

890
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,480
they got to inject my knee. 
They had a rare old time. 

891
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,120
The guy said it was one of the 
best years for him because he 

892
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,320
actually got to do some 
emergency surgery. 

893
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,760
Yeah, it was really bad. 
I and I couldn't run for months 

894
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:28,600
it. 
Was eight months. 

895
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,080
I couldn't run for, like, the 
recovery. 

896
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,680
Yeah, that knee's all right. 
My other, my other knees 

897
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,120
wrecked. 
Well, that knee's all right. 

898
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,520
Yeah. 
Have you done a good scar on 

899
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:41,720
that? 
Yeah. 

900
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:43,320
Yeah. 
They have a good scar. 

901
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,080
Yeah. 
It's awfully dark, though. 

902
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,240
He's quite disappointed. 
He did a really good job of 

903
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,120
stitching it back together. 
You know, like, some people 

904
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,840
have, like, epic ones. 
Like, I have to actually point 

905
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,400
out some people, like, look, 
look what I did. 

906
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,920
Nah. 
Oh, you're cheeky. 

907
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:01,040
I can't. 
Believe you brought that up. 

908
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,920
I forgot about that. 
I totally forgot about that. 

909
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:06,720
I'll look out for that. 
When you can't? 

910
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:07,880
When? 
We go on our first. 

911
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,840
Hill Well, when we go on my 
first holidays, yeah, I Oh God, 

912
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,920
that's so funny. 
You. 

913
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,440
Said that. 
You're a school teacher. 

914
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:25,560
Yeah, and dealing with ultra 
runners are like school kids. 

915
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,800
Who's worse to deal with, school
kids or ultra runners? 

916
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,760
I don't know. 
Yeah, they're both. 

917
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,320
Par on par I. 
Think I'm probably the worst to 

918
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,840
deal with at times. 
I was joking about that the 

919
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:48,320
weekend to the Monroes, Helen 
and John Monroe. 

920
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:54,080
They've they've seen me in some 
pretty interesting diva states 

921
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:58,960
over the years. 
I don't know it. 

922
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,880
Depends really. 
With school kids, the problem 

923
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:03,320
with school. 
Kids is they're making poor life

924
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:07,400
choices sometimes. 
But with ultra runners, it's 

925
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,960
usually I'm just jealous of 
their pain, you know, because 

926
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,320
it's always the same when you're
marshalling, like you're like, 

927
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:15,320
oh, I wish I was doing that. 
And then when you're running, 

928
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,960
you're like, oh, I wish I was 
marshalling like they're both, 

929
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,800
they're both equally hard. 
You still question your life 

930
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:24,360
choices. 
During an ultra. 

931
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:28,440
Though as well Oh yeah, all the 
time yeah, but the kids have 

932
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,000
made a bad choice the. 
Adults are wondering why they 

933
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,040
made that choice. 
Yeah, that's true. 

934
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:38,320
That's true. 
Yeah, so your reason? 

935
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:42,080
For running to start off. 
With was to lose weight. 

936
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,960
What is your why for running 
now? 

937
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,400
Sanity. 
Yeah, I just really like it. 

938
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,200
I really like the whole. 
I've been like getting into 

939
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:59,360
poetry in the last few years. 
I'm quite interested in like 

940
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,960
nature poetry. 
I read this like really 

941
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,440
interesting thing once about 
somebody. 

942
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:06,800
I wish I could remember who it 
was. 

943
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,160
Somebody had written about it 
anyway, and it was about running

944
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,840
in Nan Shepherd. 
And Nan Shepherd like wrote some

945
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,720
books about the Cairngorms. 
One of them in particular called

946
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,280
The Living Mountain, and she was
very like. 

947
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,760
I mean, just, I don't even know 
how old, how long ago, it was 

948
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,560
very long time ago. 
She's quite a forward thinking 

949
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:31,440
poet for her time. 
And she had this sort of like, 

950
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:36,640
it's like this Shepherdonian way
of thinking is what they called 

951
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,040
it, the person that wrote about 
it after her. 

952
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:44,360
And it's the concept that when 
you're in nature, like you lose 

953
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:49,400
yourself and you can, you know, 
like I don't listen to music at 

954
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,960
all when I run. 
I haven't really ever listened 

955
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,720
to music that much. 
Me on roads I would, but not in 

956
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:01,040
the trails. 
And it's all about like really 

957
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:05,120
focusing on your senses and like
what's going on around your 

958
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:09,240
turn. 
Like you become like, almost 

959
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,160
like transparent, like you just 
don't, you're, you lose yourself

960
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,680
completely. 
And I quite like that kind of 

961
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:18,880
idea. 
And she wrote about that a lot. 

962
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:23,680
So a lot of what Nan Shepherd 
wrote about was about what it's 

963
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,680
like to be in the Cairngorms and
what it sounds like and what it 

964
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:30,760
smells like and what it feels 
like and what the seasons are 

965
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,720
like and just about losing 
yourself in that environment. 

966
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,920
And I think that's the closest I
could get. 

967
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,320
I'm not very good at writing, 
but the closest I could get to 

968
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,520
feeling that is when you're out 
running in the trails. 

969
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,080
But, and I think for ultra 
running, it takes a long time to

970
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:51,720
decompress all the stuff that 
goes on like your various rules 

971
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:55,840
from like work, like my, I find 
my work quite stressful at 

972
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,480
times. 
And then, you know, the home 

973
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:01,160
stuff and then all the other 
bits and pieces that you fill 

974
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,560
into your life. 
Like how do you strip all that 

975
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:08,800
away and process it all? 
So yeah, that's my why. 

976
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:14,240
Now try and be a bit more like 
Nan Shepherd and find that zone 

977
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:18,120
of peace takes a long time so I 
have to run. 

978
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,040
Sidlaw Way. 40 miles to get 
there. 

979
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:23,800
Maybe that's why you run so 
much. 

980
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,240
Is it Mike? 
Do you need to do like 50 

981
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:29,720
million miles before you find 
some Zen space? 

982
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:38,000
I'm not sure I could do that far
the next. 

983
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,880
Question on the list. 
That. 

984
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:44,160
Might be the same answer is what
do you think about when you're 

985
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,240
running? 
Well yeah, that's it exactly. 

986
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,640
Just. 
Starts off usually that I don't 

987
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,560
want to be doing it. 
I never want to go running 

988
01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:56,320
anymore and I don't know if 
that's just getting old or if 

989
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:59,000
it's because the weather is 
absolutely diabolical in 

990
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:03,160
Scotland at the minute. 
But once I get going, yeah, just

991
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,880
thinking about all the things, 
all the jobs I didn't do today, 

992
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,600
all the jobs I have to do, all 
the things that need to be done.

993
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,120
And then by the time I've worked
through all that list and 

994
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:15,040
figured out how I'm going to fit
it all in into the Jenga of 

995
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:18,560
life, just nothing. 
Just peace. 

996
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:21,360
Yeah. 
And then hang on to that for as 

997
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:24,040
long as possible. 
Yeah. 

998
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:27,200
And. 
We've spoke about. 

999
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:30,080
You've. 
Got volunteering roles? 

1000
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:34,040
First aid? 
You're alluded to you would be 

1001
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:38,600
doing the devil as. 
Yeah, a few eventually is a a 

1002
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,120
cell that you'll be there. 
What have you got coming up? 

1003
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:46,080
Oh, for me, for running, for 
volunteering. 

1004
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:47,120
Oh, volunteering. 
Yeah. 

1005
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:50,480
So I'll be at the Devil and the 
Fling and West Island Way. 

1006
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:52,560
That's the three. 
I've committed 2 already. 

1007
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:58,200
I've filled in the spreadsheets.
I've signed my soul away to Noni

1008
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:02,920
and John and Sean for West 
Highland Way. 

1009
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:06,280
So yeah, it's on. 
I really hope not to need your 

1010
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,200
services at the. 
I will be shouting at you all to

1011
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:13,200
keep moving. 
And what about running wise? 

1012
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:17,000
Well, I've got Lakeland 100. 
In July. 

1013
01:04:17,040 --> 01:04:22,800
So yeah, I've got Lakes Mountain
40 coming up soon, I think. 

1014
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:24,480
I don't know. 
I don't even know when that is. 

1015
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,680
Like next month? 
Maybe. 

1016
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:31,480
Yeah, I've got Leakes Mountain 
40, so I'm doing that in the so 

1017
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,720
it's like 40 miles in the Lake 
District. 

1018
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:38,400
That's a week before the devil. 
So that'll be that'll be good. 

1019
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,480
And then, oh, I'm doing the full
tilt. 

1020
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:45,440
I've never done it before in 
Blair Athol. 

1021
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,960
Have you heard of it? 
I've heard that. 

1022
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,240
I've no idea what. 
Yeah, I've never done it either.

1023
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:51,720
So that's. 
Going to be interesting. 

1024
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:57,560
So I'm doing that. 
I'm basically I chose for ultras

1025
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:02,920
that I thought would give me 
like the right hills and some 

1026
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,640
miles before doing Lakeland so 
that I don't have to do any 

1027
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:12,600
actual long runs at home. 
So yeah, that's it really. 

1028
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:18,680
So that's the plan. 
Bucket lists do you have? 

1029
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:21,280
A bucket list. 
What would your dream race be? 

1030
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:24,280
I don't really have a dream 
race. 

1031
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:28,400
I mean, I guess Bob Graham. 
I keep talking about it, I'll. 

1032
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,120
Do it one day. 
I, I really want to do the lap 

1033
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:36,480
Anglesey. 
Like we've got Matt's, my 

1034
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:40,400
husband's got his like family 
histories from Anglesey, and 

1035
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:45,280
we've got like a like a place 
that we stay there and you can 

1036
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:51,960
run around the islands like 130 
miles, maybe give or take five, 

1037
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,080
don't know. 
And it's just a coastal path 

1038
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:57,560
right around the island. 
So I want to do that, which 

1039
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,720
would be good. 
So I did half of it last year 

1040
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:03,840
and but I wasn't fit enough, so 
I had to stop after 60 miles. 

1041
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,440
But it was good. 
I really liked it. 

1042
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:08,720
It was totally different. 
No hills. 

1043
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,080
It's just a coastal path. 
But then I realized it's a bit 

1044
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:13,720
like the coastal path near you, 
Mike. 

1045
01:06:13,720 --> 01:06:16,080
It's there's actually more hail 
in it than you think. 

1046
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:18,600
Because actually, by the time I 
finished, I'd almost done the 

1047
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:22,960
same height as I would have done
that Benny, he had done the same

1048
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:24,560
distance. 
That was quite interesting. 

1049
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:28,080
So I'd like to do that. 
But it's not a race per SE. 

1050
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,080
I think people don't realize 
that most coastal paths. 

1051
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:33,560
Is never flat. 
You're always going up or down. 

1052
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:36,200
It's just it's quite hard work, 
yeah. 

1053
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:38,600
I mean, I thought it was going 
to be really easy. 

1054
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,200
I was like, Oh yeah, I could do 
like a really easy 100 Miller, 

1055
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:43,080
just go and run around this 
coastal path. 

1056
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,840
Yeah, it didn't quite turn out 
like that. 

1057
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,240
Yeah. 
So I'd like to do that. 

1058
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:54,360
I'm laughing at the sentence. 
Easy 100 mile I know well I said

1059
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:57,040
that about muddy 100 as well and
I swear I'd never run again 

1060
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:00,720
after that say Oh my goodness 
the B fell the West Highland 

1061
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,840
weighs runnable for the most 
part yeah I'll never do it again

1062
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:09,880
either Oh yeah well the. 
The track 100. 

1063
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:15,320
Mark Cobain's event, you get an 
extra hour because the clocks 

1064
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,560
change. 
Oh, that's horrible. 

1065
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:24,880
Well, you get 25 hours rather. 
Than 24 so that's great yeah, 

1066
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:26,520
that's completely flat because 
it's on. 

1067
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,440
Track have you done? 
That one no, because I've got 

1068
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:30,640
no. 
Interest in doing. 

1069
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,600
A track race, but you'll run 
across the bridge for and 

1070
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:36,160
through a. 
Tunnel hours. 

1071
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:40,000
Yeah. 
And up a hell. 

1072
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:42,320
Oh yeah. 
And that one. 

1073
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,160
It's such a weird. 
I love it. 

1074
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:49,480
Do not fancy that one, Jenny. 
The hell no. 

1075
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:52,200
I don't. 
I I did that. 

1076
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:55,520
I did that, Donnie. 
Dear like my local hill, I tried

1077
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:57,760
to run up it for 24 hours. 
I couldn't even do that. 

1078
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:02,120
I got I got so bored. 
I find it really, really, 

1079
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:07,120
really, really like the one 
thing that I find really hard is

1080
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:12,560
in like monotony like like I 
find Glenmore 24 really 

1081
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:14,800
difficult. 
I tried Saltire last year and I 

1082
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:19,439
could, I just couldn't do it. 
I just, I really struggle with 

1083
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:23,840
doing the same thing over and 
over again and also coming back 

1084
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:29,200
to a checkpoint like regularly. 
It's my willpower to carry on 

1085
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:31,240
when things get difficult. 
It's quite low. 

1086
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:33,880
Like I do quite, I do quite like
quitting. 

1087
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:40,479
It's it's yeah, I'm I don't mind
quitting. 

1088
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:46,359
Going back to previous question.
I think you think too much when 

1089
01:08:46,359 --> 01:08:48,160
you're running. 
Oh, maybe. 

1090
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,040
Oh yeah, I think about not 
running. 

1091
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:55,840
A lot when I'm in a race, yeah, 
that's. 

1092
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,840
True. 
Yeah, well, Mike had to Cree for

1093
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:02,680
me for D30, not D33 for Glen 
Moore one year. 

1094
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:07,160
And yeah, that was that was 
really difficult. 

1095
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:12,479
But for you, for Mike, well, 
Mike, I think found it quite. 

1096
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,399
Entertaining. 
Because he just got to, just 

1097
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:19,439
didn't let me in the van. 
He was just, yeah. 

1098
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:22,000
I. 
Had. 0 Sympathy, yeah. 

1099
01:09:22,399 --> 01:09:25,960
That was it. 
Yeah, that was hard. 

1100
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:29,600
I'll never do that again. 
So I'll crew. 

1101
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:31,359
I'll. 
Be marshalling at that next I'm 

1102
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:32,640
just. 
Going to make a list of all the 

1103
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,640
things I'm going to now help at 
be much better. 

1104
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:40,000
Yeah, I'll do. 
So this next. 

1105
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,240
Question. 
I'm actually quite excited 

1106
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:46,200
because for some reason the way 
the questions always land make 

1107
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:50,240
usually always gets to ask this.
So I'm happy I get to ask you 

1108
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:54,000
this this time. 
So it's one of our favourites 

1109
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,280
that we like to ask who would 
you like to run with? 

1110
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:03,720
And it can be anyone in your 
head or in your life or who 

1111
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,040
would be your perfect running 
buddy. 

1112
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,600
Can I have two people? 
You can have as many as you. 

1113
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,360
Want I. 
Was really I? 

1114
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:22,840
Would like genuinely been 
getting into poetry and I would 

1115
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:27,640
be interested to see what how 
nan she like 'cause when? 

1116
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,520
I don't know if you've read any 
of her work, but it's all quite 

1117
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,440
well. 
Sometimes it's quite hard, but 

1118
01:10:34,440 --> 01:10:37,400
mostly like it. 
It makes me think that she's 

1119
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:40,280
quite I'd love to have met her 
actually. 

1120
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:41,760
I wonder if she was. 
As 80 fatty. 

1121
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:45,840
As I think she was in my head, 
but I wonder like what how she 

1122
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:49,960
would view the Cairngorms from a
running perspective rather than 

1123
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:53,640
somebody that walked there 
Because I find walking and 

1124
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:59,920
running quite different and 
invoked like a different, like 

1125
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:03,320
it's just a different viewpoint 
on the same thing. 

1126
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,640
So it's quite like that. 
But I think I would get quite 

1127
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:11,320
bored because as much as I love 
poetry, I'm not massively into 

1128
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,000
reading or enjoy listening to it
a lot. 

1129
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:18,160
So I think if she was talking 
like she rewrites, I would get 

1130
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:21,520
very bored because I couldn't 
read the whole book of hers in a

1131
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:24,280
sitting. 
But I'd love to take some do you

1132
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:27,040
know, like maybe somebody like 
Kent and cool? 

1133
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,880
I don't know. 
Do you know Kent who Kenton cool

1134
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:33,560
is? 
He's I think he's climbed 

1135
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:37,520
Everest like the most times from
anyone else in the UK. 

1136
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:41,640
Like that's his main jaw. 
He's an adventurer and he does 

1137
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:43,960
run and he lives down in England
somewhere. 

1138
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:48,640
And I started listening to his 
podcast and lock down and I kind

1139
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:54,560
of really like him. 
He's like quite full on and he's

1140
01:11:54,560 --> 01:12:02,080
obviously like, yeah, he's he's 
very full on and quite it is 

1141
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,440
very enthusiastic. 
And I think he'd be quite fun to

1142
01:12:05,440 --> 01:12:07,600
go running with. 
I think he would talk a good 

1143
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,440
talk if you were out running. 
And he's got loads of stories 

1144
01:12:11,440 --> 01:12:16,160
like if climbing and being 
around the world. 

1145
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:19,360
And I think I could just like 
quite happily like listen to him

1146
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:22,280
whittering on like I get. 
I quite like that vibe. 

1147
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:27,800
Yeah. 
That would be my two people and 

1148
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:28,840
our next. 
Question. 

1149
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:31,480
Is. 
Not one of ours. 

1150
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:38,000
It was set by previous guests 
Bob Turner and IT. 

1151
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,240
Is if you're running. 
Shoes could talk amongst 

1152
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:43,800
themselves. 
What would they be saying about 

1153
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:52,560
you? 
The I never wear the right. 

1154
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:54,480
Shoes in the night they'd be 
put. 

1155
01:12:54,480 --> 01:12:58,240
I think my shoes would be pretty
pissed off with me 'cause I 

1156
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:03,920
always wear the wrong shoe. 
I always wear like my really 

1157
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:08,600
nice mountain shoes and then end
up running like 20 miles on tar 

1158
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:13,480
in them. 
Or this weekend I wore like 

1159
01:13:13,480 --> 01:13:18,000
really stupid shoes and then 
ended up having to run across 

1160
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:21,120
quite a lot of snow, which 
wasn't expected, and I was just 

1161
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:22,680
slipping everywhere. 
So I think they were pretty 

1162
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:27,640
pissed off with me, yeah. 
That's a really. 

1163
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:32,520
Hard question to answer. 
I think they would, yeah. 

1164
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,000
And just general. 
Yeah. 

1165
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:39,040
Abuse. 
Like I don't change shoes very 

1166
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:41,520
often. 
I maybe go through two pairs of 

1167
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:47,120
shoes a year. 
So they do, they do get pretty 

1168
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:51,040
erect and glued. 
I'm really into pay UPS. 

1169
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:54,640
Have you heard of pay UPS? 
Yeah, I love pay UPS. 

1170
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:59,680
I use, I buy, I buy a lot of 
glue and glue together my shoes 

1171
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:03,400
quite a lot. 
So yeah, they get good, get good

1172
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,240
value. 
Maybe they like me in the end 

1173
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:09,440
because I haven't had them for 
so long, been through so much 

1174
01:14:09,440 --> 01:14:11,560
together. 
I don't even know is I even 

1175
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:16,560
answer that question. 
You did, definitely. 

1176
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,200
It's quite a hard one. 
I think they're just think I'm a

1177
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:21,840
bit of a Fanny. 
As well, to be fair. 

1178
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:28,720
That's what most people say 
about me, so there you. 

1179
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,080
Go I just. 
I just. 

1180
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:33,960
Have one. 
Last question, unless. 

1181
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:37,000
Mike has any others? 
And it's one that's not on the 

1182
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:38,840
set, Jenny. 
It's one that came into my head 

1183
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,720
as we've been chatting 
throughout this conversation and

1184
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:46,520
I'm once again thank you so much
for agreeing to come on. 

1185
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:52,760
It's been such a good chat and I
am very inspired by your running

1186
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,840
and your journey. 
So the last question is, as a 

1187
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:03,400
mum, teacher, runner, general, 
bad ass women, how what advice 

1188
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:07,640
do you have for us other mums 
that have full time jobs and 

1189
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:10,840
other commitments just for 
sitting running into your life 

1190
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:15,000
when we're so busy? 
That's a good one. 

1191
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:21,760
I think the hardest thing, if 
I'm honest, is. 

1192
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:28,000
We put a lot of. 
Pressure on ourselves in the 

1193
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:37,880
running sphere to perform and to
always achieve. 

1194
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:40,080
Or get. 
To the end or do things in a 

1195
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:46,560
better time or we should always,
you know, like we, we make 

1196
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:51,720
training plans that are quite 
rigid, but we don't live rigid 

1197
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:53,720
lives and things change all the 
time. 

1198
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:57,160
And I think certainly it's 
something I'm getting better at,

1199
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:02,720
but it's being able to be kind 
to yourself and just trying to 

1200
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,160
remind yourself actually doesn't
matter that so and so who 

1201
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:10,520
appears to be very busy, who has
also managed to run all the 

1202
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:12,960
things that they're meant to 
have run on Strava, that 

1203
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:15,200
actually it's OK for us not to 
do that. 

1204
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:19,760
And it's OK sometimes if you do 
stop, like you don't have to 

1205
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:23,320
finish the race and you don't 
have to go on the training run. 

1206
01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:25,880
And if you need to have a night 
off, then that's OK too. 

1207
01:16:26,440 --> 01:16:30,000
I don't think we're very, I 
don't think we're very kind to 

1208
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:35,160
ourselves when we get in this. 
So especially at this level, 

1209
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:40,480
like anyone that wants to do or 
be involved in ultra races, it 

1210
01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:44,680
is very difficult because you 
have to be at a certain level to

1211
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:49,880
do that, you know? 
So hats off and yeah, be kind, 

1212
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,320
just be kinder. 
It's really difficult and it's 

1213
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:54,440
OK. 
To say you know what can't. 

1214
01:16:54,440 --> 01:16:58,280
Do that today and I might not do
this week. 

1215
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:01,360
But you know what? 
I'm not the worst person in the 

1216
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:02,920
world because I didn't do that 
time, Kay. 

1217
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:10,200
Yeah, well, that'd be it. 
You have been kind. 

1218
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,760
With your time tonight. 
So you've been kinder to us. 

1219
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:17,720
And just for me to say thank 
you, Jenny, for coming on. 

1220
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:19,320
Thank you, Nick. 
Yeah, that's good. 

1221
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,040
And hopefully you. 
Enjoyed it you? 

1222
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:25,760
Weren't as boring as you said 
you were, so it's goodbye from 

1223
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,120
me. 
Thank you. 

1224
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:30,680
Thank you.