Hello and welcome back to another episode of Run to Done,
Tonight's guest. I'll go with the AI intro first.
It says that Jenny's a woman that wakes up early before alarm
clocks, which means they don't exist.
Calls it relaxing. She claims she doesn't run that
much. She says she's boring.
But what what Nikki doesn't know is I've known Jenny since uni
days, well before I was a runner probably I would say 20 odd
years. So it's going to be an
interesting chat. I think it's longer than that.
Yeah, well, I don't know. I graduate 2001 and it was a
roundabout then so yeah, 2025 ish years.
So welcome to the show, Jennifer Reece Jenkins.
Hello. Thank you for coming on, Jenny.
No, it's nice to be. It's nice to be here.
I like to talk about running, so you know it's good.
We're so glad that you agreed to come on, so thank you.
The first question that we do ask every single guest is how
did you first get into running? Good question.
I, I forget quite a lot actually about that because it's been so
long now, I suppose. But in two, I was trying to look
up when my first race was and I think it was Balmoral 10K in
2009. But at that point in I was
running. Before then I used to work for
Scottish Water and did a lot of walking and I used to go to the
gym. I lived in Aberdeen and used to
swim a lot in the old Bonnycourt Baths before it closed.
And running was like the thing that you did when you went to
the gym to warm up. So I'd always go on the
treadmill for like 5 minutes and then go on something else.
So that's all running really was for a very long time.
And for some unknown reason in 2009 I did the Balmoral 10K and
I was destroyed. I remember being particularly
destroyed and if I maybe it was before then, but anyway.
And I pretty much quit after that and decided that I didn't
really want to do it again because it's a bit sore and that
was that. So really running now to me,
obviously I run a lot is about first it became to lose weight
after both my children. So my first daughter was born in
2008, my second was in 2010. And I wanted to lose quite a bit
of weight. So running was a really quick
way to do it around juggling family life.
I live in a small village inch in Aberdeenshire and the gym is
open here some of the time, but not consistently when I was
awake. So yeah, just fell into running.
So yeah, that's it. So probably properly, properly
started in 2011. And you were saying that about
he got into running just to lose the weight after having the
kids. And that because my own fitness
journey, it started out during the workouts.
It was COVID times when I got back into it.
And the one thing that I noticed was when I'd, like, toned up and
just felt better in myself, I was a lot more confident.
Did you feel that in yourself? Yeah.
I mean, I've, I've always been quite open about mental health
over the years and as a young adult and through uni times had
really struggled with that and had to use medication to stay
out of the dark places that my brain was putting me into.
And I'd, I guess being a new mum, you know, it's really,
really difficult to stay out of that.
And I think I'd always been aware that the skills that I
developed to stay mentally healthy were really difficult to
manage when I was also very tired and then having to look
after small people. So running did two things.
It gave me that balance where I could process things and try and
get back what I needed that I used to rely on medication for
and didn't want to do that again, but also gave me an
opportunity to get that runner's high, which in itself becomes
addictive. So I think especially for people
that have had, well, I mean we're all runners and I meet a
lot of runners from in, especially in ultra events that
have a similar state that they, they feel they need that as well
in their life. I think that's why I enjoy
running as well from that community aspect where we can
openly speak about how we feel and that actually sometimes
things are really rubbish and it is quite difficult to manage
adulting. So yeah, I would I would agree
it's it's good, good for making you feel better.
Everyone should run you. Said you've got two kids.
Yeah, do. Do they run at all?
No, no, Jazz is now. How old is she now?
16 so she's so my eldest is going to be 18 this year and my
youngest is going to be 16 this year.
And Jazz is at a point where I think she could be a runner
because she started coached 5K and actually really enjoyed it.
And that was her way of sort of making herself feel better in
avoiding all the pressures that you get of being a young human
being. I was going to say a young
female, but actually from working with children of, you
know, all genders, I'm aware that everybody has, you know,
body image is something that all young people struggle, adults as
well struggle with. So yeah, I think maybe running
is a positive way of doing that these days, staying healthy,
maybe not they're losing weight, but but being healthy.
You've been running since 2011, which I would imagine you've
done a fair few events and that thing.
Do you have any standouts or any favourites that you have?
Oh. Yeah, yeah, from quite a lot of
different disciplines now, so favourites.
I really like the hill races, the long classic hill races if
I'm honest now. I mean if you'd asked me when I
started running out that wouldn't have been the answer,
but certainly where I am now I really enjoy those in
particular, like the Trotonish Hill race and the the the Ridge
in Sky and the 2 breweries Hill race near the borders is pretty
good. Both lovely events.
Favorite all time event for me would be Lakes in a Day in the
Lake District. I really like that event.
That's the event that I like as much as the route.
Yeah, I've got quite a lot. I don't know, it depends on what
we come on. I really, I did the Sid did the
Sidla Ultra last year. I really like that race.
So I might do that one again. You're the first person I've
helped that says that they've liked.
Yeah, it's really good. Yeah, it's brilliant.
It's really great. It's like it's it's marked ish.
So I like that element of it. Like you really do have to, you
have to have your wits about you and that's not anything to do
with the race directors. It's just a really difficult
route to mark. Like there's no way you could
fully mark that perfectly unless it was like a sky race.
And I liked that has a lot of hill in it as well.
And you've, it's quite, you've got to be quite self-sufficient.
So that would be the things for me if navigating
self-sufficiency and it being a bit hard would be the three
things I would look for in a good event.
Now, and you talk about getting into hell races.
How does one go about that? Because it's something that
equally intrigues and terrifies me.
Oh. OK, so there's two things.
One for me, I wasn't really into hills.
Michael can testify to that. I think one day I'd said to Mike
that I really wanted to do some hill running.
And remember, we went up Lord Arthur's Hill and you're like,
right, we'll run up it 8 Times Now.
I didn't know how far this hill was going to be.
So we met and we started the run and then we ran.
I think we did it four times and it's a mile and a I'm sure it's
a mile and 1/2 from the bottom to the top.
And it's like a consistent climb.
And when we were on, I'd had enough and I think I'd probably
said some rude things to Mike about how I felt about all that.
And on our way back we met another friend who's like quite
a big hill runner. And we'd said what we did and
he, his face was just like, wow, you need to do some hill races
if you can do that. And that's kind of when it first
twigged about that time that actually, even though it felt
awful, I quite liked it. Of late, it's been about
statistics for me a little bit because, well, two, I'm getting
older and finding it harder to run competitively especially.
And 2nd, not many women do hill races, like the number of women
that are competing in hill races is is quite small and I see that
in my local community. And also when you look at the
long classics, the number of women that are finishing her,
it's a very small number. And I just felt like why is
that? So before I can have an opinion
on it, I'd quite like to try it out.
So I tried a couple of years ago to do all the long classics but
I didn't manage to do that but just cause of timings.
But I did complete the series and it they are hard, they're
really hard to run, but they're not impossible.
You just have to train differently.
So I wouldn't advise anyone just go in and do 1.
Not a long classic without having done some of the short
hill races, but it they are really, really good fun and the
people that run them are lovely. Yeah, I would and wrecking.
I think girls on hills are doing a good job.
They're starting to do more recchis for women particularly,
but are sort of opening the doors to set to any adults that
is a bit unsure about it. But yeah, I like it.
I like that they're hard. More women need to try hard
things. I think definitely like as you
say, you know, not a lot of women that are on the hills and
doing the races and I don't know, maybe they're thinking the
same as me. I can't do that.
I would eaten alive. But you know what, just go and
do it. Yeah.
And I am at the end, you know, I'm a lot, a lot of the times I
am back at the pack and I use the start early that you can
start an hour early in a lot of them now.
And that's really great. I use that effectively.
Now that you've told us that you really love long classics.
Can. You go back to the.
Start and tell us what long classics are.
Yeah, I think, I can't remember what the specifics are, but it's
it's to do with the height and the distance of the race.
So it has to be usually over 20 K would be about a normal
distance. It can be anything from 20K to
20 miles. And the height would normally
be, there is like a thing on the Scottish Hill running page that
tells you the actual definition of a long classic, but it's to
do with how much ascent there are.
So like, ones I enjoy would be, you know, 18 to 20 miles and
they would be, you would be covering about 3 to 5000 feet of
ascent in that race. It's mostly off path, quite
tussocky terrain, river crossings, climbing over things
that you probably wouldn't normally climb over.
Yeah, they're good. Is Ducker Crowe in a long, long?
Yeah. Yeah, it is.
Yeah, it's great. It's a really good one.
Yeah. It's hard.
Yeah. I've done a lot of them with
Beardy, who, I don't know what his handle is on social media,
but Graham Kelly is his real name.
Yeah, he's done. He's that's it.
He's, I've done a lot of them with him.
I think he enjoys how much I moan and get cramped and have to
shout at him a lot. And he's amazing.
He just keeps doing it every every year.
But I mean, my big life goal had been to do the Ben Nevis Hill
race, and I achieved that two years ago.
So yeah, that was, that was a good day.
A good day indeed. And that's not actually a long
classic, but it's still a hard a hard race.
So the Ben Nervous race is classed as a medium.
I think it's not for if the distance is only 11 miles
perhaps. The other thing you said was
about statistics. One statistic that I'm aware of
is how many races that you've done.
Are you counting them? Yeah.
What? What numbers Can you?
Oh, God, yeah, I do know that. I have that here.
I keep it in my diary all the time.
So I've got, I've done 42 marathons and 86 ultras so far.
Yeah, that's true. I think that's right.
Yeah. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah. What's what's the most you've
done in one year? Jenny, have you got that?
Yeah, because that was in 2016, two 1016.
So I did a big year for charity where I had to run like really
far that year and I ran that year 123. 4.
I did 9 marathons and 12 ultras that year.
My aunt was a pretty crazy year. Yeah, daft.
Yeah, I almost broke myself, to be fair.
So it's into. I haven't done that again since.
But yeah, no, it's really good. Yeah.
I'm blown away by that, Mike, But that's I mean, that's small
fry in the circles that or you know, that like, you know, it's
just the D33 on Saturday and I was marshalling at that and you
know, I think there's like Alan Cormack was there and Neil
Mccritchie was there. I asked one of them how many
ultras they'd done and I'm sure it was almost 201 of them.
I mean, and that's. 120. Yeah.
So it must have been Neil then. Yeah.
So he's, I'm sure it was like 190 something he was at at the
moment. And that's just counting the
official ones. Like, I mean, Alan regularly
will go and run, you know, 50-60 miles on a Saturday morning.
So yeah, it's crazy, really. I guess it's, I don't know.
Yeah. If you don't mind me asking,
Jenny, how old were you when you'd done your first ultra?
I did it in my first one was in 2013, I think.
Is that right? Or 2014?
It was one of those years. So yeah, it's been, yeah, 1213
years. And how old were you at that
point? So I'm going to be 50 next year.
So yeah, I was in my late, can't do the maths.
How old am I now? I'll be 40.
I'll be 49 this year. And then 13 years ago, let's say
late 3936. Yeah, I think that's quite a
common age for people to start like, Oh yeah, it's endurance.
Yeah, especially for women. I mean, like, physiologically
speaking, we perform better in long distance just due to, well,
many factors. But as we get older, like women
do tend to do quite well. Yeah, it's good.
And for us ladies, as we are getting older, we menopause is
becoming more and more of a wide unknown topic.
And thankfully more research is coming into it now and all
aspects of light or not just running for anyone out there,
especially for men, how how does one navigate running and going
through menopause? And what do I have to look
forward to in the next few years?
Yeah, So really good question. So a lot like it's a bit, it's a
bit of a tricky one. Obviously menopause is linked to
reproductive hormones. And we I don't know how much you
know about that. I don't know how much you know
about your biology. I'm a biology teacher.
So I teach this quite regularly in How You're Human, but we have
a limited period where we're able to reproduce as women.
So I don't know. You've got like, I know what
average is it, 400 eggs. So once they've run out, your
hormones change. So progesterone and estrogen
levels drop. And the problem that has on
running is, well, obviously you've got the symptoms that
that creates. And lots of women have different
things. I get really bad skin or had
really bad skin. It's still quite bad actually.
So like eczema flare ups. Some people get like hot
flashes. I've never had that, thankfully.
Anxiety. If you've like a lot of studies,
do you know what it's like? Like my teenage self came back
and I was just like, what is this?
This is ridiculous memory. That's my current big issue.
And and then there's just like fatigue, like really fatigued
and it's is all linked to those hormones.
So I'm now, so perimenopause is, is really difficult for a lot of
women and that can start anytime, usually in their your
40s, late 40s and mine started probably about 45.
And then after you haven't had your periods for a whole year,
you'd be classed as being post menopause like.
So it's a definitive day. So that's where I am now and I
take some estrogen which helps with all of that and some
progesterone. They're the two hormones.
So it's a really complicated thing of working it out, but it
has played absolute havoc with my running.
So the only like estrogen affects your bones and my mom
has osteopenia, which is when your, your bones aren't as
strong. So like I've obviously I'm quite
obsessed with bone density. So hill running's quite good for
bone density, thankfully. And resistance training, going
to the gym, all these things. I've joined the gym and I'm
trying to do a bit a bit more of that.
Well, I didn't realize it's linked to your heart as well.
So I find that like sometimes my heart rhythm can be really off.
That's like something that hadn't really, I only learned
about that recently. There's a really good book by a
woman called Stacey Sims. It was Debbie Martin Konsani had
flagged it and I got that. So any anybody like like I would
recommend all women to read that book because I actually changed
like my whole life. I think her and Karen had been
like shouting out about this amazing book.
It's called Next Level. And there's another one as well
called Roar, which is another book that's sort of quite female
based and all about exercise and running.
So trial and error, you've just got to read as much as you can
about it. And thankfully there's loads of
info out there like Damian Hall's just written a new book.
I haven't read it, so I can't endorse it really, but it's all
about, there's a whole section in it apparently about menopause
and how to deal with running when you're old.
And he also talks about the male perspective, which is often
forgotten because I think getting old is a thing for men
as well. And I think we're kind of only
now just starting to be better at talking about that as well.
I know some of my friends joke about having the menopause, but,
you know, I think there is scope there when, you know, women are
moaning, blaming everything on menopause.
I think men have their own issues with running when they
get older. So yeah, sorry I was a bit of a
rant. No at all.
I quite, I quite like talking about the menopause because it's
like it's dominated my life for the last five years.
Well, we haven't had anybody on talking about them before.
So, OK, yeah. Feel free.
It's quite common now. Like I do find that I help out
some, well actually don't help out as much as I did, but I've
got friends that are running Jog Scotland groups in the village
and we kind of work together. I'm in a running club, I'm a
coach actually in a running club locally and we've got a partner
Jog Scotland Group. And quite often when we have
like a leaders get together, men and women, I may add, we do talk
a lot about who's on what collagen and who's been taking
creatine and what the best brand is.
You know, long gone are the days of where's the best nightclub?
It's now like what supplements are you taking?
But I must say vitamin D, we don't get enough vitamin, we
don't take on enough vitamin D in Scotland and especially with
menopause, vitamin D is, is a, is a big issue.
So that would be like, if you don't agree with taking anything
but you will take something, then I would advise that either
get more sunshine or take some supplements because it's huge,
makes a huge difference, especially for like your bone
density as well. Who is your running club, Jenny?
I am in the Inch Trail running club, ITRC.
So yeah, we're 10 years. We've been affiliated to
Scottish Athletics this year, so that's a biggie.
So yeah, it's good. Small.
We're a small group. Good things come in small
packages, correct? And to pull the conversation
away from menopause. Yeah.
Bob Graham round It's a a dirty word.
Dirty name. Bit of a nemesis for you.
Tell us, how many times have you attempted it, Why it hasn't
worked out? And come before that, why the
Bob Graham round? Wow, I love that round.
I love it and hate it equally. So yeah, it's, well, I've
attempted it properly twice. And then when did we go down?
Can you remember how long ago was that?
It was a long time ago now. Anyway, the first two attempts I
probably did were after COVID actually, you know, when
lockdown lifted and you could travel to England again.
The weekend after that is when I attempted it and it was, I swear
in my life it was the fittest I've ever been in my life
because I ran the most consistently I've ever run
through lockdown. I was really, really, really
ready for it. But it, it went really pear
shaped. I'd spent 10 years rekeying it
and the reason I was asking Mike is Mike and my friend Rob
Sinclair or our friend Rob Sinclair and another friend Kev
Steven, like all came with me. I managed to convince them to
come and help me recce the majority of the route.
So we went down for a week and spent a lot of time there and
it's my family all come from the Lake District.
So my mum grew up there and my uncle was there and he told me
about it and he joked and said that he didn't think I could do
it and he didn't. Do you know?
I spoke to him recently, he passed away a year ago and we
actually joked about it before he died.
I went to to visit him and he was not great and I reminded him
of it and actually he he did laugh because he actually
backtracked and said that he did.
He now knew that I was capable and that he really looked
forward to the day that I did it.
And that was almost like a curse 'cause I'd kind of put it to bed
a little bit after my 2 failed attempts.
And then now I was like, Oh no, now I really do need to do it
again, 'cause you know how we have this emotional attachment
to people in our lives, we feel we need to do it for them.
So it's back. But yeah, I did it.
I tried it twice. The first time was just after
lockdown and I did it with a few friends.
It's quite complicated. I don't.
Do you know much about it, Nikki?
Not a tremendous amount, but I do know, Yeah.
And you've got the other rounds like Charlie Ramsey, Paddy
Buckley. I know about those, yeah.
So it's the easiest of the three.
It's the one that you can run the most.
So you know, it's it is a nice one to do.
And it also the access points are really quite handy for your
crew. Like you can meet people like
quite, quite reasonably. So I had like a really good
team. I had all, all the I had people
on every leg. It was great.
But I didn't eat enough. And when I don't eat enough, I
get really sick. And I just was, so I'll, it was
horrendous. And on the, the third leg, so
it's kind of in the middle, I just could not stop being sick.
And then it started to snow, like really heavily snow.
And I just was like, this is ridiculous.
Like I'm actually going to get into trouble because I'm not
like I hadn't really thought through snow at that point.
So I bailed and it's really easy to build at that point.
And then I went back to try it again another time and decided
to do it the other way around, which is genius now because I
didn't succeed that time, mostly because of the weather.
It was very hot and I was struggling in the heat and I
hadn't run in the heat for a long time and I couldn't like in
order to cool down enough that I didn't feel ill and keep moving.
I would lose the time and then I wouldn't have made it in under
24. And I was so close to doing it
that it slipped away too quickly and there would be no way.
I knew I didn't have the ability to make it up and I would have
ended up finishing. I think my predicted time would
have been closer to 30 hours by the time I would have finished,
so yeah, I didn't really want to do that.
So yeah, failed twice. Third time lucky, some would
say. Our our recce was 2016 because
I've got a photo on Facebook of looking shocked, as he does when
he takes a selfie of himself and myself and Rob taps half in the
background. Grassmere.
That'd be about right. Have you done any of the other
bones on the legs? Yeah.
So I've done the tea round three times.
So I did it once in winter with Beardy, and then I did it once
in summer with some friends. And then I've done it again
another time with some other people.
Yeah. So I've done it a few times.
Yeah, I've done quite a lot. Rounds in the lakes.
Yeah, there's a few. Yeah.
They're good with Ethan. You didn't eat enough.
Do you know the reason? Like, did you just forget or
were you just so focused on the actual run?
How how was the case? Oh, I'm just a really lazy
eater. Like I'll go for like, I know
like I can tell you like the textbook, like what you have to
do. Like I know I need 40 grams
every 40 minutes and like, and I can't eat that much sugar and it
has to be this and that and the other thing.
But when it comes down to actually doing it, I used to be
quite bad at it. I'm a lot better now.
I think that's the other thing about menopause is that's
changed what I can and can't eat.
And I'm actually better now at eating because I hate feeling
that miserable now. So it'll be interesting to see
actually how I'd get on. I'm not very good.
Like I can't I can't even watch. Like when did you do you, Mike?
You put a video on one day of you like drinking a can of cold
soup or something. And I like honestly that even
made me want to be sick just watching you drinking that made
me feel ill. Like I just don't have that.
Like I can't even eat. I can't eat anything.
Like West Highland Way always makes me laugh because people
eat things like custard out of a tub and rice puddings and like I
can't, I just can't. Like it just makes me want a gag
instantly thinking about it. So it's taken me like a really
long time to find what I can eat and it's really boring.
It's fruit jellies, specifically Marks and Spencer's.
Fruit jellies has got to be posh like and they don't even cost
that much really, but I can eat them.
And and they've got what, 0 calories in them?
No, I think they're quite good. Yeah, I would question it.
Yeah, they're all right. Active root's good.
I like quite like active root's been a bit of a game changer for
me. It works well.
And cheese Baby Bells. I love a baby bell and some
crisps, but if I'm doing something like a marathon or
something where I've got to actually run fast, I do find
those active root gels are pretty good.
I've just tried them this year or last year.
I actually really, really like them.
They're all right. And torque, I've always used
torque gels for the since the dawn of time.
The rebarbing custard ones particularly.
I can eat, get them. I can cope with that.
So I am getting, I don't know. Yeah, I'll still be rubbish.
I'll still probably mess up. I quite like a pasta pot, you
know, like they're all right. I don't mind them.
And yet I always forget though tried to eat a Pot Noodle once
in Granton when they did the Murray 100.
That did not end well. So we'll do that again.
What flavour? It was chicken and mushroom,
which I'm not. I don't know if I've ever had
one of them before. But yeah, there was.
It was funny because it was by the time I got to Granton, like
you've only got like 20 miles left, so you're 80 miles in.
And I, they were, by the time I got to the checkpoint, it's
right next to the pub. And there was like this group of
young adults being sick outside and they were on one side of the
bench from boozing and I was on the other side of the bench
being sick from a Pot Noodle. It was so bad.
I was like, oh gosh, here we are.
It's the evolution of humans, so.
The fruit jellies have got about 100 calories per tub, so it'll
get you about a mile. Is that all, isn't it?
They taste good. I'll tell you what, Jenny, 100
calories is better than nothing. Yeah, well, that's that's
probably all I was putting in the last time.
I do quite like a bit of Christmas cake on a run.
That's a novel one. Yeah.
Right, Bob Graham round obviously hasn't happened.
So I I would imagine that that would be your biggest running
achievement when you complete it.
But. To date, what has been your
biggest running achievement? Probably the Lake Sky Ultra, the
1st edition. You know, the old school 1
before they took Pinnacle Ridge out because they have changed it
now. But that that one, that was
awful. Like it was probably one of the
hard to date, one of the hardest races that I've ever completed.
Yeah. And that was really tough.
And it was like, I'm just trying to look it up on Strava because
I know I probably wrote some really funny things about it,
but it took like, I think I was quite possibly.
Yeah, I find it. So it was 37 miles with 14,000
feet of a cent. Well, nearly 15,000 feet of a
cent. And it took me 13 1/2 hours,
which is actually quite good. I was actually, I wasn't very
pleased with that at the time. But when I look back, I'm
thinking, wow, that's actually pretty cute.
And it was just so hard. And there's this video of me
that exists where there was this RAF paratrooper type person who
was filming and at the bottom of Pinnacle Ridge.
So when you go up Pinnacle Ridge on some Sunday, Craig, they put
rope, a bit of rope in so that you can like not fall off
basically, but somebody had stolen the rope.
So you just had to like do it yourself.
And there's like amazing photographs of like pro runners
and they all look really impressive where they're like
skipping across these tiny little pinnacles of rock.
And then there's me in this video.
And the guy that was doing the film him was a a guy called Ben.
And I, I can't tell you his last name.
I wouldn't even know how to find him now, but I could probably
find the video. And he's saying, come on,
Jenkins, you can do it. And I'm like literally sitting
crying at the bottom. So I follow him up and every now
and again he sort of like pans back.
And at one point there's on this tiny little pinnacle where
there's, I'm sure there's a photograph of Rob Sinclair, like
looking really badass, like looking like some the most
amazing runner ever. And I was belly flopping onto
that Ridge with this woman, like with her hand out trying to pull
me up over these little pinnacles.
So I was like, oh, there, there goes my amazing photograph of
looking like a badass runner. But it was also driving with
rain and it was a little bit windy.
So it wasn't probably the best time for a good, good thing.
But yeah, I was really proud of myself that day, and then the
next day I went and hit another Sky race.
So I simply entered 2 in two days.
So I did the Scaffold Sky Race the next day and it was glorious
sunshine and I had an amazing time because it was only 20
miles and super easy in comparison.
So yeah, it was good. But Sky Races are brilliant
because they mark it all out. You don't even have to navigate,
you just have to follow these little flags and hope you don't
die. It's brilliant.
So yeah, I'm proud of that. I didn't get timed out.
That's a miracle. See, funnily enough, Jerry, my
very first trail event was the 10K Salomon Skyline last year
that they done it at Kenlock. Leave him one of my friends in
1-2 places and says, oh, I think you'll enjoy this the most out
of all my friends and see that that completely changed my
course of running because I've done the Glasgow half marathon.
I think it was like 3 weeks after two weeks after and I
remember thinking to myself, I hate this.
I just want to be back and Ken Luck leave and doing that 10K
and I know what you mean about the flags and yeah, brilliant
time. Yeah, you're also a bit late.
How did I get here and where am I?
Yeah, they're great. They're great races, really
great races. It's a shame that, well, it's
all a bit unknown now for Scotland.
So this week's recent news about Aria events.
So be interesting to see what happens because obviously like
the Sky Race, there's only, well, there's the one in the
Lakes and there's the one in Wales.
So it'd be interesting to see if somebody takes on in Scotland.
Very interesting to see when UTMB try and take it over.
Well, yeah, that's true. That is true.
And put the price up by about four times.
I know, I know. And then changed the route last
minute. Well, I wouldn't be surprised if
what's happened. I mean, I don't know how much
you know about UTS, but obviously I've got a lot of
close friends that are involved in the race and, you know,
they've the, the National Park have dictated like the roots for
UTS because there's so many people and it's a protected
site. So, you know, they were told
where, you know, they were categorically told where they
were allowed those runners to go.
So it is a shame. I do really feel for ultra
Snowdonia just now. It's like it it must be hard
because it's not their fault, but it's just so many runners.
And I think if that was to happen in Glencoe, we'd have the
same situation because I think it's already on the verge of the
number of people being quite high as it is.
So. And there is a lot that they do.
We do have to preserve the land as well.
Yeah, Fields. They really are for everyone.
Yeah, I agree. Yeah.
But then you can guess like, you know, there are other things
like the long classics, you know, they don't they barely
fill. Like some of them are more
popular, like Stuka Kronos does gets a good, good turn out, but
some of them are quite low in entries.
But they offer the same thrill. It's just not flagged.
Was it terrifying? Jenny, it's not that bad.
I'll take you on one. Come and join me one day.
I think you'll need to. I mean, I was looking at the
whole calendar and I've looked at it the last couple of years
and spoke to be all day as well about it.
And he's like, oh, I just put one in and there's a tiny one
local to me called the YE West. Oh, yeah, I've heard about that.
It's only 7 K and it's really not that.
Oh, you have to do it. Oh, it's terrifying.
These are races won't happen without volunteers, first aid,
etcetera, etcetera. And you just said that you were
doing first aid at D33 at the weekend.
Tell us, how did you get into that and what is the worst thing
you've had to deal with? Yeah, no, that was quite
interesting this weekend. So there was Sean is on, I think
he's on holiday or something. Anyway, so he gave me everything
that I needed through Julie and yeah, it was D33 was easy.
We didn't have anything much to deal with.
It was good. Nice day.
I've been doing, I do first aid through the ultra community.
So I went on, I mean, I've had a first aid certificate for years.
I'm a first aid at work anyway. But I decided to do the outdoor
first aid in Dundee with some of the other marshals from ultra
races and Sean Stone sort of organizes it all for us and then
we get deployed in various races.
So I'm in the medical team, probably for the Devil Highland
Fling W Highway this year. So I'll be all three of those in
my little green waistcoat, hopefully helping some people
out. And I guess my experience in a
school probably plays quite well to ultra runners 'cause it's
usually moaning teenagers who are passing out or fainting or
being sick. So that's much the same as ultra
runners in the same temperament. And that kind of side of it I
can deal with quite, quite well. I did.
There is a story from the D30, no, from the devil.
It must have been about 10 years ago now, and I was helping out
in first aid and thankfully Laura was there with Sean and
Neil was the main medic at the time.
So I'd kind of been partnered up with Neil and we were whizzing
around the place everywhere. And then somebody would fall in
and cut their hand open and he had to stitch it back together.
And all of a sudden there was a call that they needed to get a
cup of tea with lots of sugar in it.
Quick to the medic tent. So in Russia's Laura with a cup
of tea. And it was for me because I was
so squeamish, I couldn't cope and I just went white.
So what I learned about being a medic is I'm quite good at the
anything that doesn't involve having to stitch somebody back
together, like the blood, but I'm actually OK.
But it was just, I've discovered that watching anyone getting no
needles, not my bag. The worst thing that I've ever
come across though, is probably when I wasn't working as a
Marshall, but I was a participant and when I did
Lakeland 100 a few years ago, I, the people, and you've maybe
heard the story, I don't know. But what happened is there's a
bit in the race at Wasdale where there's no signal, so you kind
of all the trackers go off and then you sort of reappear later
on in the route. So they kind of watch for that.
So it's a bit of a dead spot. So you don't really want to come
across any problems in there. And it was, it must have been
nearing midnight. I would have said we're climbing
up out of Lisdale on our way to Buttermere.
And I could see in front of me there was I could hear people
talking and asking questions. And then the closer I got, I
could hear people saying, are you OK?
And then I could see that it was slowing down and we were in like
a a total queue at this point of people.
So it's a quite a big race. And that's quite early in the
race. And I was getting, I remember
being annoyed because it was cold and I hadn't put my jacket
on. I just had a long sleeve top on.
I was thinking I'm going to have to put my jacket on.
But it's a queue, you know, I didn't want to lose.
I don't want to get stuck behind anybody because I was wanting to
push on. So I was going for a faster time
and then eventually I came across legs on the path and
everyone was stepping over this man that was lying on the path
asking him if he was OK. And by the time I got to him he
wasn't responding at all. And I didn't really know what to
do. And because I'm a first aider, I
knew that I couldn't not well and a human and I'm couldn't not
I couldn't climb over somebody that wasn't responding.
So I stopped and put my jacket on anyway.
And then when I went to try and speak to this man who was
completely out and I like, I didn't know what to do.
So I was trying to revive him. You know, when you go and you do
your first aid trainings, like hello, hello, can you hear me?
That kind of thing. So I was doing that and trying
to get him to make some sense and I was trying to move him out
of the way 'cause people were now sort of trying to get past
me and him. And then nobody was really
stopping. And I, my friend Louise in the
fire brigade and Louise Greenwood, she's in the fire
brigade and she was behind me. And then when she got to me, she
was like, what's going on here? And she was amazing.
At this point, I'm like, crying because I went into shock
because I couldn't get him to speak.
And he was totally grey. He looked dead.
His lips had gone, like, dark blue.
And it was dark and it was windy and it was raining.
And I couldn't like, you know, when I was doing all the things
in the book, you know, pressed to see if the blood comes back.
And it couldn't. It wasn't doing anything.
And he's lying on a rocky path. And I'm, like, trying to get him
in the recovery position, but I don't think he's breathing.
You know, it was just like, it was wild.
And you couldn't hear the breath.
You couldn't see his chest move in.
I was, and I really did. I was like totally panicking.
And it must have been minutes between me finding him to Louise
coming up to me. But it felt like, I don't know,
it felt like an hour. It was horrible.
But she just went straight in and she just, she could see that
I was stressed and I didn't and was panicking.
So I was like wasn't communicating very well.
So she gave me her, she had a big jacket.
She just pulled the big jacket out of her bag.
She pulled a bivvy bag out of her bag and she was getting him
into the bivvy bag. And she gave me her phone and
told me to go up for she said time it.
I want you to go up as fast as you can for 10 minutes and get
see if you get a signal. And if you get no signal, come
back. And in the meantime, another
Scottish runner actually had stopped.
So there was now three of us. So she was like, we'll do this,
you go get help. So it went up, did exactly what
she said, went up for 10 minutes and then to the just to the top
of the Crest of the hill. Still no signal.
So then came back down and by the time I came back down,
they'd got him into the BV bag and he was starting to come too.
And it was actually what was wrong was, well, he was cold, so
he was probably a hypothermic, but he hadn't eaten anything.
And I can't remember how many miles, Mike, you'll know better
the stats of that race, but it must be about 20 miles maybe.
Is it? No, maybe not even that.
It's not a massive, it's not massively far into the race.
But in time wise, if you start at 5, is it 5:00 or 6:00?
The race starts and we were now midnight.
So you hadn't eaten anything for six hours.
And it's, it's not massively difficult terrain, but you're
still out for a long time. And it turned, I think he had,
he just hadn't eaten enough and then got very cold and he was in
little shorts and AT shirt. So by the time they'd heated him
up. So I learned a lot that day.
I actually got some counseling and beer deorganized counseling
for me through mountain rescue, actually.
And it was really great. And they phoned and they spoke
to me and they're like, you know what?
Everything you did, you know was right and you've learned loads
and you've reflected loads and what you would do and actually
all worked out quite well. And in the meantime we'd got
other people to get help at Buttermere.
So Mountain Rescue did get called and there's nine new
safety protocols in the race because there wasn't a sweeper
and the trackers we'd sent set the alarm off on the tracker,
but they hadn't been at that time.
They didn't use that safety protocol in the race.
So it had flagged in their system, but there wasn't a
person to pick up the flag, so nobody knew that we'd needed
help. And then myself and Stuart and
Louise, the three of us got him off the path basically, and we
basically escorted him down to the last checkpoint, back down
to Asdale. And they were just about to
leave the checkpoint by the time we got there.
So really lucky because actually Mountain Rescue hadn't at that
point been alerted, so I don't know what would have happened to
him. Anyway, we got a free place in
the race. So I'm doing it this year
actually. So I'm going to have another
bash. But yes, we'll see how that
goes. But it's pretty crazy.
We then liked it all the way back.
So we ran all the way back to Buttermere, but we missed the
cut off by like a minute and what's good, but we'd used all
my we'd used all our stuff like I'd used all my safety
equipment. Everything was soaking and it we
were now had done an an extra 10 miles something mad like that.
By the time we'd run up and down, fannied about an
adrenaline like I think if we'd carried on ourselves.
So it was good that we didn't finish, but it was a bit sad.
So that was the worst thing I've ever seen.
So it sounds. A bit dramatic.
It wasn't actually as dramatic in the end, but you just, I
don't know, when you come across somebody in, in the like, in the
wild, I felt a bit like that, you know, and like when you do
all these things, first aid courses, you didn't like this
really fake environment where like, it's really easy because
they're already lying on, you know, usually the, you know, the
resuscitation doll is on its back.
So it's like all set up exactly how you'd want it.
It's kind of weird. So yeah, there you go.
That's the worst thing I've ever come across.
And he was OK, the guy good. Have you talked to him again
since? Yeah, he's.
Raging, he was raging. He was.
Absolutely. Raging because he because you
didn't stop his garment. Yeah, well.
No, we didn't, actually. We let it keep going.
He didn't believe us that it was that bad.
So yeah, never mind. I think maybe he's got over it
now. But yeah, it was pretty scary.
It was pretty scary from our point of view.
And I'm really glad that not only was the three of us, but
actually a few other friends had stopped because I know quite a
lot of people that do that race. And a lot of people were had
witnessed it 'cause I, you know, the first thing you do, I don't
know if you 2 are like that, but, you know, when somebody
says, oh, that's not what happened automatically, I'm
like, oh, was I wrong? Maybe I didn't, maybe that
didn't happen. Maybe I made it all up.
You know, you start like dieting yourself instantly.
But thankfully, like, you know, Stuart and Louise both were
like, yeah, that was, you know, they were both involved in it.
And actually they spent more time with him.
Louise was really worried for a while.
She was like, that was a lucky escape that we got on when we
did. Possibly on a lighter note, if
you if. You imagine this if you were
marshalling, doing first aid on a hill race, somebody came up to
you. They'd fallen over during the
the last leg. Not their last leg, but the last
leg of the race. Yeah.
And they had blood dripping down their leg.
And they? 'D taken a bit of duct tape and
patched up their wound. What would you say to them?
Go see Neil. Well, OK.
So I know. I know it might suffer ring to.
So when I did the Benrinus Hill race I might have fallen on the
descent of Benrinus and I cut open my knee and I put a bit of
duct tape on my knee to hold the skin on.
And when I got to the Marshall they said that if I carried on
I'd be disqualified and I carried on.
And when I got to the finish I had to go to hospital and get
stitches and then I got banned from the race but they let me
back in now, so it's OK. It was.
Really bad. I didn't realize how bad it.
Was I was so adrenaline fueled and I, I feel really bad now.
Like, yeah, that was a lesson. I, I got really told off.
Like really told off. So yeah, but I don't think that
happens in ultras. So much I don't.
Think people or it didn't happen so much in those days that
people were so rude as I was. Do you know though I do think.
About it quite a lot, I do feel, really.
Bad 'cause I've never been able to find who that who that
Marshall was. And like, I don't think I
really, I think I thought they were joking.
You know, I honestly didn't realize it was so bad till I got
to the tent. And actually the the hospital
staff in Dufton were delighted 'cause they Marshall the race
every year and they never get any injuries and they had a
great time. They got the wire brush out and
they got to inject my knee. They had a rare old time.
The guy said it was one of the best years for him because he
actually got to do some emergency surgery.
Yeah, it was really bad. I and I couldn't run for months
it. Was eight months.
I couldn't run for, like, the recovery.
Yeah, that knee's all right. My other, my other knees
wrecked. Well, that knee's all right.
Yeah. Have you done a good scar on
that? Yeah.
They have a good scar.
Yeah. It's awfully dark, though.
He's quite disappointed. He did a really good job of
stitching it back together. You know, like, some people
have, like, epic ones. Like, I have to actually point
out some people, like, look, look what I did.
Nah. Oh, you're cheeky.
I can't. Believe you brought that up.
I forgot about that. I totally forgot about that.
I'll look out for that. When you can't?
When? We go on our first.
Hill Well, when we go on my first holidays, yeah, I Oh God,
that's so funny. You.
Said that. You're a school teacher.
Yeah, and dealing with ultra runners are like school kids.
Who's worse to deal with, school kids or ultra runners?
I don't know. Yeah, they're both.
Par on par I. Think I'm probably the worst to
deal with at times. I was joking about that the
weekend to the Monroes, Helen and John Monroe.
They've they've seen me in some pretty interesting diva states
over the years. I don't know it.
Depends really. With school kids, the problem
with school. Kids is they're making poor life
choices sometimes. But with ultra runners, it's
usually I'm just jealous of their pain, you know, because
it's always the same when you're marshalling, like you're like,
oh, I wish I was doing that. And then when you're running,
you're like, oh, I wish I was marshalling like they're both,
they're both equally hard. You still question your life
choices. During an ultra.
Though as well Oh yeah, all the time yeah, but the kids have
made a bad choice the. Adults are wondering why they
made that choice. Yeah, that's true.
That's true. Yeah, so your reason?
For running to start off. With was to lose weight.
What is your why for running now?
Sanity. Yeah, I just really like it.
I really like the whole. I've been like getting into
poetry in the last few years. I'm quite interested in like
nature poetry. I read this like really
interesting thing once about somebody.
I wish I could remember who it was.
Somebody had written about it anyway, and it was about running
in Nan Shepherd. And Nan Shepherd like wrote some
books about the Cairngorms. One of them in particular called
The Living Mountain, and she was very like.
I mean, just, I don't even know how old, how long ago, it was
very long time ago. She's quite a forward thinking
poet for her time. And she had this sort of like,
it's like this Shepherdonian way of thinking is what they called
it, the person that wrote about it after her.
And it's the concept that when you're in nature, like you lose
yourself and you can, you know, like I don't listen to music at
all when I run. I haven't really ever listened
to music that much. Me on roads I would, but not in
the trails. And it's all about like really
focusing on your senses and like what's going on around your
turn. Like you become like, almost
like transparent, like you just don't, you're, you lose yourself
completely. And I quite like that kind of
idea. And she wrote about that a lot.
So a lot of what Nan Shepherd wrote about was about what it's
like to be in the Cairngorms and what it sounds like and what it
smells like and what it feels like and what the seasons are
like and just about losing yourself in that environment.
And I think that's the closest I could get.
I'm not very good at writing, but the closest I could get to
feeling that is when you're out running in the trails.
But, and I think for ultra running, it takes a long time to
decompress all the stuff that goes on like your various rules
from like work, like my, I find my work quite stressful at
times. And then, you know, the home
stuff and then all the other bits and pieces that you fill
into your life. Like how do you strip all that
away and process it all? So yeah, that's my why.
Now try and be a bit more like Nan Shepherd and find that zone
of peace takes a long time so I have to run.
Sidlaw Way. 40 miles to get there.
Maybe that's why you run so much.
Is it Mike? Do you need to do like 50
million miles before you find some Zen space?
I'm not sure I could do that far the next.
Question on the list. That.
Might be the same answer is what do you think about when you're
running? Well yeah, that's it exactly.
Just. Starts off usually that I don't
want to be doing it. I never want to go running
anymore and I don't know if that's just getting old or if
it's because the weather is absolutely diabolical in
Scotland at the minute. But once I get going, yeah, just
thinking about all the things, all the jobs I didn't do today,
all the jobs I have to do, all the things that need to be done.
And then by the time I've worked through all that list and
figured out how I'm going to fit it all in into the Jenga of
life, just nothing. Just peace.
Yeah. And then hang on to that for as
long as possible. Yeah.
And. We've spoke about.
You've. Got volunteering roles?
First aid? You're alluded to you would be
doing the devil as. Yeah, a few eventually is a a
cell that you'll be there. What have you got coming up?
Oh, for me, for running, for volunteering.
Oh, volunteering. Yeah.
So I'll be at the Devil and the Fling and West Island Way.
That's the three. I've committed 2 already.
I've filled in the spreadsheets. I've signed my soul away to Noni
and John and Sean for West Highland Way.
So yeah, it's on. I really hope not to need your
services at the. I will be shouting at you all to
keep moving. And what about running wise?
Well, I've got Lakeland 100. In July.
So yeah, I've got Lakes Mountain 40 coming up soon, I think.
I don't know. I don't even know when that is.
Like next month? Maybe.
Yeah, I've got Leakes Mountain 40, so I'm doing that in the so
it's like 40 miles in the Lake District.
That's a week before the devil. So that'll be that'll be good.
And then, oh, I'm doing the full tilt.
I've never done it before in Blair Athol.
Have you heard of it? I've heard that.
I've no idea what. Yeah, I've never done it either.
So that's. Going to be interesting.
So I'm doing that. I'm basically I chose for ultras
that I thought would give me like the right hills and some
miles before doing Lakeland so that I don't have to do any
actual long runs at home. So yeah, that's it really.
So that's the plan. Bucket lists do you have?
A bucket list. What would your dream race be?
I don't really have a dream race.
I mean, I guess Bob Graham. I keep talking about it, I'll.
Do it one day. I, I really want to do the lap
Anglesey. Like we've got Matt's, my
husband's got his like family histories from Anglesey, and
we've got like a like a place that we stay there and you can
run around the islands like 130 miles, maybe give or take five,
don't know. And it's just a coastal path
right around the island. So I want to do that, which
would be good. So I did half of it last year
and but I wasn't fit enough, so I had to stop after 60 miles.
But it was good. I really liked it.
It was totally different. No hills.
It's just a coastal path. But then I realized it's a bit
like the coastal path near you, Mike.
It's there's actually more hail in it than you think.
Because actually, by the time I finished, I'd almost done the
same height as I would have done that Benny, he had done the same
distance. That was quite interesting.
So I'd like to do that. But it's not a race per SE.
I think people don't realize that most coastal paths.
Is never flat. You're always going up or down.
It's just it's quite hard work, yeah.
I mean, I thought it was going to be really easy.
I was like, Oh yeah, I could do like a really easy 100 Miller,
just go and run around this coastal path.
Yeah, it didn't quite turn out like that.
Yeah. So I'd like to do that.
I'm laughing at the sentence. Easy 100 mile I know well I said
that about muddy 100 as well and I swear I'd never run again
after that say Oh my goodness the B fell the West Highland
weighs runnable for the most part yeah I'll never do it again
either Oh yeah well the. The track 100.
Mark Cobain's event, you get an extra hour because the clocks
change. Oh, that's horrible.
Well, you get 25 hours rather. Than 24 so that's great yeah,
that's completely flat because it's on.
Track have you done? That one no, because I've got
no. Interest in doing.
A track race, but you'll run across the bridge for and
through a. Tunnel hours.
Yeah. And up a hell.
Oh yeah. And that one.
It's such a weird. I love it.
Do not fancy that one, Jenny. The hell no.
I don't. I I did that.
I did that, Donnie. Dear like my local hill, I tried
to run up it for 24 hours. I couldn't even do that.
I got I got so bored. I find it really, really,
really, really like the one thing that I find really hard is
in like monotony like like I find Glenmore 24 really
difficult. I tried Saltire last year and I
could, I just couldn't do it. I just, I really struggle with
doing the same thing over and over again and also coming back
to a checkpoint like regularly. It's my willpower to carry on
when things get difficult. It's quite low.
Like I do quite, I do quite like quitting.
It's it's yeah, I'm I don't mind quitting.
Going back to previous question. I think you think too much when
you're running. Oh, maybe.
Oh yeah, I think about not running.
A lot when I'm in a race, yeah, that's.
True. Yeah, well, Mike had to Cree for
me for D30, not D33 for Glen Moore one year.
And yeah, that was that was really difficult.
But for you, for Mike, well, Mike, I think found it quite.
Entertaining. Because he just got to, just
didn't let me in the van. He was just, yeah.
I. Had. 0 Sympathy, yeah.
That was it. Yeah, that was hard.
I'll never do that again. So I'll crew.
I'll. Be marshalling at that next I'm
just. Going to make a list of all the
things I'm going to now help at be much better.
Yeah, I'll do. So this next.
Question. I'm actually quite excited
because for some reason the way the questions always land make
usually always gets to ask this. So I'm happy I get to ask you
this this time. So it's one of our favourites
that we like to ask who would you like to run with?
And it can be anyone in your head or in your life or who
would be your perfect running buddy.
Can I have two people? You can have as many as you.
Want I. Was really I?
Would like genuinely been getting into poetry and I would
be interested to see what how nan she like 'cause when?
I don't know if you've read any of her work, but it's all quite
well. Sometimes it's quite hard, but
mostly like it. It makes me think that she's
quite I'd love to have met her actually.
I wonder if she was. As 80 fatty.
As I think she was in my head, but I wonder like what how she
would view the Cairngorms from a running perspective rather than
somebody that walked there Because I find walking and
running quite different and invoked like a different, like
it's just a different viewpoint on the same thing.
So it's quite like that. But I think I would get quite
bored because as much as I love poetry, I'm not massively into
reading or enjoy listening to it a lot.
So I think if she was talking like she rewrites, I would get
very bored because I couldn't read the whole book of hers in a
sitting. But I'd love to take some do you
know, like maybe somebody like Kent and cool?
I don't know. Do you know Kent who Kenton cool
is? He's I think he's climbed
Everest like the most times from anyone else in the UK.
Like that's his main jaw. He's an adventurer and he does
run and he lives down in England somewhere.
And I started listening to his podcast and lock down and I kind
of really like him. He's like quite full on and he's
obviously like, yeah, he's he's very full on and quite it is
very enthusiastic. And I think he'd be quite fun to
go running with. I think he would talk a good
talk if you were out running. And he's got loads of stories
like if climbing and being around the world.
And I think I could just like quite happily like listen to him
whittering on like I get. I quite like that vibe.
Yeah. That would be my two people and
our next. Question.
Is. Not one of ours.
It was set by previous guests Bob Turner and IT.
Is if you're running. Shoes could talk amongst
themselves. What would they be saying about
you? The I never wear the right.
Shoes in the night they'd be put.
I think my shoes would be pretty pissed off with me 'cause I
always wear the wrong shoe. I always wear like my really
nice mountain shoes and then end up running like 20 miles on tar
in them. Or this weekend I wore like
really stupid shoes and then ended up having to run across
quite a lot of snow, which wasn't expected, and I was just
slipping everywhere. So I think they were pretty
pissed off with me, yeah. That's a really.
Hard question to answer. I think they would, yeah.
And just general. Yeah.
Abuse. Like I don't change shoes very
often. I maybe go through two pairs of
shoes a year. So they do, they do get pretty
erect and glued. I'm really into pay UPS.
Have you heard of pay UPS? Yeah, I love pay UPS.
I use, I buy, I buy a lot of glue and glue together my shoes
quite a lot. So yeah, they get good, get good
value. Maybe they like me in the end
because I haven't had them for so long, been through so much
together. I don't even know is I even
answer that question. You did, definitely.
It's quite a hard one. I think they're just think I'm a
bit of a Fanny. As well, to be fair.
That's what most people say about me, so there you.
Go I just. I just.
Have one. Last question, unless.
Mike has any others? And it's one that's not on the
set, Jenny. It's one that came into my head
as we've been chatting throughout this conversation and
I'm once again thank you so much for agreeing to come on.
It's been such a good chat and I am very inspired by your running
and your journey. So the last question is, as a
mum, teacher, runner, general, bad ass women, how what advice
do you have for us other mums that have full time jobs and
other commitments just for sitting running into your life
when we're so busy? That's a good one.
I think the hardest thing, if I'm honest, is.
We put a lot of. Pressure on ourselves in the
running sphere to perform and to always achieve.
Or get. To the end or do things in a
better time or we should always, you know, like we, we make
training plans that are quite rigid, but we don't live rigid
lives and things change all the time.
And I think certainly it's something I'm getting better at,
but it's being able to be kind to yourself and just trying to
remind yourself actually doesn't matter that so and so who
appears to be very busy, who has also managed to run all the
things that they're meant to have run on Strava, that
actually it's OK for us not to do that.
And it's OK sometimes if you do stop, like you don't have to
finish the race and you don't have to go on the training run.
And if you need to have a night off, then that's OK too.
I don't think we're very, I don't think we're very kind to
ourselves when we get in this. So especially at this level,
like anyone that wants to do or be involved in ultra races, it
is very difficult because you have to be at a certain level to
do that, you know? So hats off and yeah, be kind,
just be kinder. It's really difficult and it's
OK. To say you know what can't.
Do that today and I might not do this week.
But you know what? I'm not the worst person in the
world because I didn't do that time, Kay.
Yeah, well, that'd be it. You have been kind.
With your time tonight. So you've been kinder to us.
And just for me to say thank you, Jenny, for coming on.
Thank you, Nick. Yeah, that's good.
And hopefully you. Enjoyed it you?
Weren't as boring as you said you were, so it's goodbye from
me. Thank you.