Hello and welcome back to run to run a few changes happening.
Nikki don't know if you'll be able to see from her video at
the moment, but she has joined us.
I've had a lot of internal monologue with myself and no,
it's the it's the right thing to do.
It makes things easier for me because Nikki likes to talk to
people and I can get her to go and ask guests on.
That's fine. It's work smarter, not harder.
Get her to do the hard job. But also I'm I'm aware that
there was a gender imbalance in the podcast.
So we're now 5050. None of this 100% male.
So it's a gender balance. So today I'm in the minority or
joined by a female guest, but I'm not in the minority for long
because I'll say that there's two people in this call of one
gossipy backyard ultra and the guests is one of them.
So the guest today is a happy diet on Instagram.
All right, Kaylee Webster, who's just fresh back from winning
gossipy backyard ultra. Welcome, Kaylee.
Hello, thank you for having me. No problem at all and.
Never thought I'd be in the same calibre as Mike Ruffin.
Oh I've I've got my hoodie here so hang on my gossipy backyard.
Oh, it's blurring it out, so Oh, well, never mind.
I tried. Yeah, that was my Winners hoodie
from two years ago. So Kayleigh, he'll have one of
them coming her way, I think. If it's on route is yes.
So, but it's customized, it will my MY1 says how many yards it
did on the back of it. So they can't print it in
advance because they you, you just don't know.
That's the trouble. And great thing about backyard
offers. You just never know how much
your yard is running. So anyway, back to Kaylee.
Can you tell us how you got into running?
Yeah. And it's actually probably well
timed because it's about four years to the week I believe that
I started the Couch to 5K. So prior to that I did
absolutely nothing exercise wise, sports wise.
I was not that way inclined at school.
I would avoid it if possible at all costs, even forging notes
from my parents, the teachers to not do PE.
But yes, I was one of those lockdown runners where just
enough was enough. I just wasn't happy with the
site and myself and what I was becoming.
So I sort of secretly started the couch to 5K.
Only my partner at the time knew I was doing it.
I was just again, afraid that if I didn't finish it, I didn't
want to let anyone down. But it turned out I was very,
very disciplined with that. I loved that fact of it was laid
out exactly what you needed to do.
And even better was my final 5K of the plan fell on Christmas
Day. And it felt amazing to get
myself up out of that bed and before anything happened on
Christmas Day, get my 5K done. And so yeah, that that's how it
all started. And the running bug just grew
from there. So you you said you did it in in
COVID times. Did the end of COVID, did that
make a difference to you? Did you suddenly go all right,
I'm going to join a club, I'm going to do socialise in
running. Not at all actually.
I've still, well, I've only just recently joined the club.
I was very, very inexperienced with what running entailed.
So much so that I didn't even know park run, 5K races, 10K
races were a thing. So I just sort of, once I
finished my plan, I just sort of kept on, kept up doing three
runs a week. And it wasn't until the, I think
it was me of 2021 that I decided let's let's give myself a target
of doing a half marathon, which was the Scottish half in
September. So that, yeah, I didn't really
sort of socialise with running. It was just myself.
I didn't, didn't know any other runners.
I just was very, very unsocial that way.
So COVID, yeah, probably didn't have any impact whatsoever.
OK. And do you want to mention what
running and club you're with now?
So I've just started joined RTC Warriors.
It's just a social local run club based in Falkirk.
So they're they're not scary and intimidating as, as some seem to
be, even though they all claim that they're not.
And I do appreciate that. But it it's very, very
inclusive. And although they have sessions
on it's, you feel like you can just rock up and do do your own
thing. And I met a couple of ladies at
a run. It was a press play and run long
run a few months ago and we just sort of clicked.
So they just forced me to come down and I'm glad I did.
So yeah, it's a very sociable bunch.
It's good fun. And there's a Where are you
based in Falkirk? No, I, I'm Bathgate, but it's,
yeah, it's 1520 minutes away. I was tempted to join the, I
know a few folk in Lothian Run Club and then there's obviously
Linlithgow Athletics Club. So I do know quite a few folk
spread about, but like I say, it's just the the fear of the
the scary sessions that they do. And I know I'll be absolutely
fine at doing it, but I'm I'm quite sort of stubborn in just
doing my own thing. And is that one day a week that
you go to the club? I try I try at least once a
week. They do it Tuesdays and
Thursdays and Thursdays are normally a trail run as well
which is great. So but if if I can make it on
the Tuesdays I will. It just depends on on work and
other commitments. So I've also, and it's a bit
unrelated, but I have just started ski lessons.
This will be my my third week on doing ski lessons.
So I'm a bit trying to do a bit of random cross training.
Oh fantastic. I I've thought about skiing in
the past or snowboarding, but I'm always too afraid this sort
of lateral movements would injure me, so I've avoided it.
That that's what has given me the fear.
But we're going ski holiday over Christmas, so I thought I'd
better get or get some lessons under my belt.
Yeah, but you do hear that there are quite a few of the American
ultra runners that do in the offseason.
That's that's what they do, take up skiing, I suppose, typically
cross country skiing, which sounds more appealing.
Yeah, I wouldn't mind getting stuck into that.
Yeah, Killian does schemo, and if it's good enough for him,
it's good enough for us, yeah. Absolutely.
So you're saying your first race, was that the Glasgow half
you were saying? The Scottish half, yeah.
So that was one that finishes at Musselburgh, and that's
September, yeah. And how did you find going into
that? Were you just going in it just
to finish or did you have a time in mind or?
Yeah, it was just to finish, I can't remember off the top of my
head. I think it was, it was 2 hours,
15 minutes probably that I did it in.
I think my training wasn't too bad, but I did.
I did end up with like hip pain and knee pain during the
training, which I think is just down to to poor posture, bad
shoe choice and all those other things that you do.
And I'm still drinking quite heavily and but so I did.
I probably enjoyed about 80% of that, that half marathon.
But at the end I was adamant that I would never do one again.
And. Between then and now, the
current day, do you look back now and laugh because I know I
do this myself? Do you look back and think, Oh
my God, how did I get around that with hardly any fueling or
anything? Yeah, I think I even like I'd
never tried a gel before. This is the only gel that I've
ever had in my life was halfway through that that half marathon.
I don't know what I was thinking.
Yeah. Oh, dear.
That's shocking. Never try anything new on race
day apart from when you do. Yeah.
So you've also got a quite a short running history because,
well, with COVID you couldn't do races.
You've just done Gosby is is there any, any standout races
that you would think that you can think of?
Yeah, I think definitely, I have to say my first marathon that
was Loch Ness in October 22, that everything about that
experience was amazing. So during that training, that's
when I decided to to go plant based and I gave up alcohol as
well for the duration, thinking it's a four month block.
I can do this. I can cut out alcohol just for
four months, that's fine. And it genuinely transformed me.
So I thoroughly enjoyed the training block.
I, I really, I just, I think it was just a Hal Higdon online,
just set distances. It was nothing to do with speed
work. So I quite like to just go out
and, and just basically get the distance and tick.
And again, the actual training was probably just as memorable
as the race itself. Like reaching the 17 mile run
for some reason really made me very emotional.
It was just quite surreal when you start getting those numbers.
So it's every week you're hitting a new, a new distance
and that's something I suppose you just can't ever get back
again. So but yeah, the, the race
itself was amazing. I had my sister and my friend
came up and, and they were there at the finish line.
And my, my only ambition for that, I knew it was it was a net
downhill and it starts pretty much at downhill.
So I was very adamant of and don't get carried away.
That's the main lesson that anyone that's ever run once will
tell you. So I was just sitting in my way
of just tootling along nice and nice and steady and everyone
flying past me. But my only aim was just to run
the whole thing and I was very chuffed that I did.
Even that big chunky hill doors. Yeah, brutal.
But it did. It felt quite good to just have
that little steady shuffle up. And it was very emotional again
coming into Inverness. But for that race I dedicated
the last 6 miles. I had a different person I
dedicated each mile to, which was really, really special.
But I got quite emotional just coming into Inverness, having
the the police sort of cordon off the traffic at the
roundabout and you just start to realise all this is for you.
It was really quite overwhelming.
But yeah, that was that was someday.
Have you done any other marathons?
Yes, so it didn't take me long to finish that put that to bed
and then sign up to a 50K ultra. So as part of that training I
ended up doing 2 marathons, which is quite mad.
So I did Rome Marathon last year in March and then Manchester in
the April and Rome was fantastic.
That again was what a place and that I think if I was to do any
marathons again, so I've not oh I have I've done Lochranic just
recently, but we'll come back to that.
But if I was to do another marathon, I I typically want to
do it as part of travel and see new places because it's a great
way to, to get around and sightsee.
Yeah. Except I was a bit disappointed
with Manchester to be honest. I thought it was going to be
quite a big a biggie. Everyone raves about it and I
did think it was a bit a bit boring other than the banter.
The banter was great. I had a couple of friends.
We ran the sort of first half together.
But other than that I would yeah, wouldn't recommend.
Yeah, I've, I've done Loch Ness three times and I would agree
with you is it's almost like the 1st 20 miles or so.
There's nothing. Well, there is, there's lots of
beautiful scenery, but there's no body.
And apart from when you go through little villages and
everybody's out, the whole place is packed.
And then when you get into Inverness, the whole place is
packed. So it's not like quite hard
about big city marathons where everybody's out of the whole
time and you're just sort of feeling claustrophobic.
This is it makes it more special, in my opinion anyway.
Yeah, definitely. And Loch Ness, That's Rd., isn't
it? It is, yeah, all Rd.
I, I swore that I would never go back and do roads again, but
sitting listening to the two of you, you're actually both
inspiring them planting ideas again.
So. Yeah, there's there's a time and
a place. So when you done the Roman
Manchester Marathon, that was around about the time that I
found you through Instagram, Kayleigh, and that was your
tagline was at that point the happy diet.
Can you tell us a bit about that and then what led on with?
That yeah. So it all stems from the, as
soon as I went plant based, I realized all my food was looking
quite colourful and attractive. And I typically that was all I
ever did on Instagram was just look at other people's food and
find recipes. And I just thought, well, maybe
I could just create a little food page myself and just share,
share what it's all about. And that's just how it came
about. It made me feel good.
So I thought it's, it makes me happy.
So it's it's a food based thing. I know people are always looking
for a new diet. So that that's where the tagline
came from. And then from that it just sort
of, I just started to share a little snippets of my running
through the stories rather than actually through the the posts.
But that tended to get quite a lot of traction.
People are really quite interested.
So it's sort of stemmed from just food to then having that
balance of of running as well as sort of plant based food.
And then, yeah, the happy diet became what I was known.
It was people stopping me being like, oh, you're the happy diet.
Yeah, that's me. And you definitely are, because
that led on to T-shirts, hoodies, the book.
The book was amazing. Is that when was that last year
that was released? No.
Was that a year ago? Yeah.
Yeah, it has been a year. Yep.
And again, that just came. I was always quite determined to
do a website and again, just because I love food recipes and
myself. So I was like just that was a
little side project that I did. But at the same time of doing
that, I was like, well, why can't I just start putting this
all together into a little cookbook as well?
And, and that's just what I did, found a local publisher and
pulled it all together and it all went live And, and it's been
amazing. And just more so the feedback
from how it's made people feel when they've been trying the
recipes, My auntie being one of them, you know, she's in her
late 70s and she says it's, it's transformed her life and she
looks fantastic. And it's, I mean, to be honest,
that's all I want in life. And I can I can pack up and and
go now I've done that. Because the book's fabulous.
Is it still available to buy? It is, yes.
So I've got the website thehappydiet.co.uk, so you can
get the books available on there.
Preferably you can get it from Amazon, but you know what
Amazon's like. You probably get just a few
pennies, just enough to cover the cost.
But if you've got Prime, then that's that's probably a good
deal for you. But you can get it direct and I
post it myself in a nice nice envelope to your door so.
Yeah, and if you're on YouTube and can see the video, I hope
mine doesn't get blood out. Oh, no blood then it's there.
My coffee I absolutely love a lot.
I've still not cooked a lot of the recipes from it yet, but the
katsu Curry, it went down an absolute storm.
And although I'd said to you at the time it's a vegan book, I
remember apologising to you saying I'm really sorry, Kaylee.
I've put chicken on it. But it's also delicious.
The kids loved it. And mushrooms jogging off is my
absolute favorite as well. I just wanted it to be
accessible and easy as well rather than over complicate
things. Nothing drives me more nuts than
recipe lists that are goodness knows how long with all these
random ingredients that you'll only use once and that puts
people off. So I just want to try and make
it as accessible as possible and tasty.
It definitely is that and colourful as you said as well,
and it also gives you tips on the side of how it's good for
you. So it's not just or here's a
recipe book. You explain why you put what
you've put into it, and it's really interesting.
A lot of people's criticism for vegan vegetarian diets is things
like protein and I, I know it's a myth.
I I'm probably at least 50%, probably 70% vegetarian for
reasons. I eat meat because I like the
taste of it, and I I use that as a good source for protein.
What kind of protein is available for vegetarians?
Vegans. Yeah, so my my staple go TOS.
I'm obsessed with smoked tofu. Just now you can get an ALDI for
£0.99 and it's amazing. I have that basically every
lunchtime just again, because I like the taste of it.
It's not necessarily because I need the protein, but yeah,
that's that is one of them. But nuts, again, I eat so many
nuts, beans and lentils. I mean, you get protein in, in
everything as well, like rice and bread.
So it's just a mix of everything and then you can get your
complete protein. So you are right, it's, it is a
bit of a myth, but it's, it's very, very achievable.
And obviously I've, I, I do eat a lot of food, but I don't
particularly worry about eating a lot of high protein food.
Actually, most of my food's probably more in the high fat
region more than anything. But yeah, I think you just got
to find what works for you best, and you'll know that because
your body body will tell you what's working and what's not.
Yeah, I think part of the myth comes from, as you said, they
are complete protein and it is getting a mixture of proteins to
be able to get a complete protein.
And that's that's the key for for me anyway.
And yeah, that's where I think the myth come from.
But anyway, something worked because not long ago you were at
Gosby. As we already said, there's two
out of three of us here that have won that race.
So congratulations. And how did it go?
I think it went pretty well. Yeah.
Oh, it was. It feels so surreal.
And I keep I instinctively once they can't believe it, but
that's not true because that was my key going into the race was I
absolutely believed I could do it.
And now it's actually happened. It's like, oh, oh, wow, that's a
bit of a bit of a surprise. But yeah, I think the prep going
into it made me feel very, very capable of of it.
I knew what I was expecting. I felt ready to handle anything
that was going to be thrown at me.
And then everything else up on the during the weekend just all
fell into place. Like the weather was absolutely
perfect. We were so lucky there.
It wasn't too cold, there wasn't.
It was nice and dry. That made the skies beautiful.
So you know, how can you not enjoy your run when you're in a
place like that with the beautiful castle on the seaside?
The event organisers right from when you got there were
absolutely fantastic, full of beans.
Nicky and Ian obviously listened to them a couple of times
previously on your podcast, getting some insight, but
they're just the most likable people in the world.
As well as all the other volunteers.
We got a perfect spot. Again, that was one of my
adamant things of going into Golsby was I wanted to make sure
my shelter is nice and close to the start, save as much time as
possible with The Walking backwards and forwards.
And that again, just all all worked out really, really well.
Yeah. I just, I don't.
Yeah. Where where else to start
through some questions and I could talk for hours at it.
Well. Question for to start with, how
did you go from doing your 50K to going to backyards?
Yeah. So last year, as probably most
people when they first get into ultras, I went a bit mad.
I found the ultras were pretty, pretty fun.
I seem to be reasonably good at it being not a traditionally
fast runner and I just decided to do an awful lot in a very
short space of time. So from doing the 50 Ki then
jumped in to do I did another 50 Ki run the Blades and my A race
was the Devil of the Highlands in the August.
But I also between that decided to sign up for Blair Athol
Backyard Ultra and I signed up for that because my dad was
doing it and I said I was going to crew him and support him.
But, and I also had a couple of long runs to do that weekend.
I was like, how am I going to fit this in?
And he suggested why not I sign up As for it as well.
So the terrible crew that I am, I was like, OK, I ditched that.
But yes, so I again, that was probably the one of the
highlights of last year. That race.
It was instantly an event I knew I loved and we were lucky again
with the weather. But it was such a great family
community feel and I, I had the aim to do 12 yards, so 50 miles,
but I didn't want to go any further because I knew Devil
Highlands was three weeks later. But I, I managed to achieve the
12 yards with, with no bother and I could have kept on going,
which was very exciting for me. So it was a it was a weird thing
to have that deciding point to stop, but I knew I wanted to
get, get stuck back into it. And then later on in that year I
had a couple other WE ultras, but I was determined to have
have another shot, which was Rasselbach at the start of this
year where I did go in with high aspirations, but I was still
very inexperienced and probably just didn't believe in myself
enough. So I got to 19 yards in
Rasselbach. I found through the night time I
struggled to eat. I was a bit stubborn like you
were saying, Nikki, about your experience recently, but I think
I just, I felt nauseous and then I was just not happy.
So I just wouldn't push past that nausea.
So since then I've I've figured out what I can stomach through
the night time and also find things that I can sort of push
through. So I was very lucky to get a
spot in the West Highway race in the summertime.
And that, as you know, starts at 1:00 in the morning.
So straight away you're eating through the night time and then
as most people will do, you run through a second night.
So it was a great experience for me to test things out in that
nutrition. So that as well as being on my
feet for 27 hours and covering the distance of 97 miles, I knew
I could do that again at Golsby. And that was my sort of mindset
going into it was I could at least get 27 yards, but I very
much plan to do 36 because I wanted to go far and I wanted to
win. That was my my aim to be the
last one standing. I knew to to reach the win, it's
likely to be the mid 30s based on your win last year being 29,
the high calibre runners being there, the better weather
conditions. So yeah.
So. Sorry mate.
Based on you, you did 27 hours at West Highland Way, so you
thought you could do what you did at Gosby.
Would you go back to West Highland Way and what would you
be aiming for? That's the very good question
because now I'm like, well, I can do, I could do 100 miles in
24 hours, so surely I could do that West Island way.
And that's exactly my mindset right now.
So I have got my name in the hat for next year.
It is my I I want to do that every year.
If I'm if I'm so lucky, I will always want to do that race.
I love the route so much and I just want to keep working at
refining and getting stronger. So I am very much that's my my
goal for next year is a sub 24 hour if if again, but yeah.
And you were talking there about mindset, which was going to be
my question. Everyone that I meet on, you
know, through the social media and through running in general
and my own personal experience with being your friend as well,
you are so, so positive, which at times.
Is so so annoying. But it is brilliant how how
positive you are. Like how do you do you ever hit
a point like say for instance on the West Highland wait at
Goldsby where you do hit a depth, Like when you do say that
depth or Courtney DeWalt talks about the pain cave, whenever
you hit those moments, how do you overcome those or do you hit
those moments? I think they do hit me, but I'm
ready for them. And I suppose that's what she's
like as well. She's she says you need to be
ready for it and embrace it rather than fear, fear it.
So typically my at the West Ham way, it was the bit that got me
was the long stretch along the Ranak Mir.
So it's a really long lonely stretch.
And I just kind of felt a bit, yeah, a bit lonely.
And you know me, I like to yak away and stuff.
So unfortunately it was only myself to do that too.
So I just, I just talk, talk out loud.
That's probably my my tactic or just make up songs really,
really random and have little, little micro goals of knowing
just to try and overcome that. Other than that, like gospel,
obviously you you need to also expect the pain as like you're
going to hurt and everybody is going to hurt.
So you just need to know that's part of it.
And it is amazing that when you can accept it, your pain
tolerance is much higher. But the, the things that hit you
are when you start to get a niggle that you're not expecting
or it comes earlier than you're expecting.
So that's the challenge to overcome.
So at Golsby I started to get a sore knee, which I wouldn't
really get that early on. And it was a bit of a, oh, why
is this? I did fall down one of the
rabbit holes earlier on in the race.
So I was like, maybe it could have been that, but but it was
trying not to let that take over and derail the whole, the whole
race. So it's changing, just taking
away or accepting the pain it is there and also knowing it's not
getting any worse and it's just that little check in that just
gives you that boost of energy. And then a few hours later the
pain's completely gone, probably because something else is
hurting. But it's like it's, it's those
things that you you call your sort of toolbox.
So you've experienced that before.
So part of my training going into Gosby as well was doing 7
marathons in seven days and I wanted to do that for both the
mindset, the exhaustion and to force my body to get sore and to
adapt to pain. So when I know a pain comes, I
know it will also go away again, if that makes sense.
So like blisters as well that happened on the West End when it
happened at Golsby, I get a blister in the same place on my
toe and it it comes, you feel it and then it just disappears.
You just sort of learn to sort of put it away until it bursts
and then it rears its ugly head back and you're like, Ouch.
But then it goes away again. So it's, it's just trying to
claw up on those previous experiences and reminding
yourself that the pain is temporary.
It will go away and try and distract yourself with annoying
other people. It's great advice because that
was one thing before I went into the devil that gave me the fear.
I've done the recce from Glencoe to Fort William and I was sore
at the hips and usual places, as you say.
And I spoke to a friend and I says what happens?
Like, you know, how do you keep going?
And she said to me, actually, you'll find it doesn't get
worse. The pain that you have actually
doesn't get worse. And as you said there yourself,
in fact, it may even go away. It's just the way it is.
It's a very weird and wonderful thing about ultra running.
And how do you how do you train for something like golf's belly?
You've done so many yards, how you went over 30 hours.
How can you possibly train for something like that?
So typically backyards to go the distance you, you want to do
some, you want to go a lot slower.
And part of that as well is, is walking.
So you need to train yourself to be able to walk a lot.
It's very, very different on your body than running.
So you can't just assume that you can do these big long runs
and rock up to a backyard, do a run walk strategy and it'll all
be fine. You need to train the run walk
strategy. So in the lead up to that,
there's 7 marathons and seven days that I did.
Every one of those I was running, doing a run walk
strategy and it varied depending on what the terrain was.
So two of those runs had about 16 miles of canal.
So I did 3 minute run, 2 minute walk.
And I was just very, very regimented at that bit on the
flat bit. And then obviously when you come
to hills, it's like, well, you walk the hills, you bomb it down
on the downhills again, I wanted to, to sort of hammer out the,
the quads on the downhills during the training for the
adaptations. And then yes, so that, that was
the, the main part of the training was learning that sort
of run, walk strategy strategy, but also doing a simulation.
So I did a 12 yard simulation at local park that I've got a
perfect loop that works out to be bang on 4.167 miles.
So I did that solo, and I also practiced doing faster loops.
So at Blair Athel and Rasselbach, my loops were
averaging about 52 minutes and whilst that's quite ample time,
8 minutes break in between starting again.
I, I just knew and learning from speaking to other people and
listening and watching umpteen documentaries.
I'm a bit obsessed with backyards and I, I wanted to try
and, and push, push a bit harder and, and get in a bit faster and
see what toll that took on my body and if it was possible.
So in my training I was coming in about 47 minutes and, and was
doing that quite consistently. Even when I was sort of forcing
myself to still slow down a walk some more, it was still coming
in at that time. So I knew that would be a
worthwhile tactic to try out at Golsby.
And right enough, that's that's really what my my times were
coming in between 40 and 50 minutes.
And those extra couple of minutes paid dividends.
Extra rest that you can have, get your legs up, have a quick
power nap when needed. You, you said there that you're,
you've gone obsessed with backyards and I can tell you it,
it's easy to do. And but another another thing
that you've done is you've won your first race and winning is
addictive. When you win.
When you win one thing, you just want to win more, and it gives
you the confidence to be able to do it because you know that
you're capable of it. But word of warning, when you
don't win, it hurts. Yeah.
And maybe not in the sort of physical pain, but if you've you
psyched yourself up to win a race and you don't do as well as
you think you do or you think you're capable of, you know
about it. So you're talking about as a
say, question that says for me about winning and make sure
you're saying that's addictive and it's going to hurt if you
don't win a race. At what point in your running
journey did you go from? That's.
Me just going out to finish races to I'm actually going to
win this. When did that click for you?
So I think that the backyard's a bit different in that because
typically races to win a race, you have to be fast, you have to
be the first across the finish line, whereas the backyards
completely different in that regard.
And to go as far as possible, which backyards are all about,
it's not necessarily about being the last one standing.
It's about finding your your absolute limit.
And to find that limit, you can't have a target, you can't
possibly know when the race is going to end.
So for that, you have to aim to be the last one standing.
And I think I knew when would it have been possibly.
It's difficult to find define the actual moments, but as soon
as the West Ham way was finished and I was ramping up the focus
then to the goal speed, that's when the mindset shifted off
right. I want to be the last one
standing because I want to see how far I can get.
And also an integral part of you getting there was your crew.
Tell us about who was crewing and how the how you benefited
from it. So my partner Michael, he is my
my solo crew and he's he's been quite expedient.
He's been thrown in the deep end from the first backyard that we
did last year. But he has been absolutely
amazing at it. And for somebody that's not a
runner and just knows everything about running from listening to
me and all my ramblings, I think he's done pretty, pretty
amazing. I think it helps having it.
It can go both ways. Having somebody that's very
close to you as crew, it helps because they know you as a
person and they know exactly what to say and how to get you
thinking smart again. They, they know what to say
without they, I think the main thing is they truly know what
you want and what you're capable of.
And he did believe in me and that made a difference.
My worry from the start of when he started being my crew last
year was more of the him not understanding that when I'm
hurting or if I'm sick or any of these things that could possibly
happen, it's OK. And I want to keep going.
Don't like think, Oh no, we need to, we need to get you all
rested and stuff. But that's, that's never
happened. He just seems to know that that
that is that is part of it. He's very good as well at not
letting me get a bit too distracted.
So, for example, at Golsby, I was rhyming off all these
positives that were happening at I think we're on like lap lap 30
when Victoria and I obviously had just taken the, the 1-2, the
first UK sort of backyard female assistant female win.
You know, I've, I've hit the 30 mark and all these other sort of
positives. He was like, no, no, let's not
get distracted. Like keep, keep your eye on the
prize now, don't be thinking that the race is coming to an
end. And that's exactly what I needed
at that time because your body does start to go into shutdown
mode when you see the sights of the finish line.
And like I said, I did plan for 36 yards.
And I think my body started to know that, especially when we
were whittled down to just three of us.
And I just needed to sort of be a bit snapped out of it.
Keep my eye on the prize, as they say.
Well, you said that not to get distracted by certain things and
something I got a message when you were 2930 when you went down
to the two females left from Nikki and Ian saying has there
ever been a male, sorry, not a male, two female assist and
winner. And I replied saying not, not
that I know of, not in the UK anyway.
So I think it's not time to get distracted about it during the
race, but it's time to celebrate about it now.
I'm not even sure what I can say.
Female winner, Female assist. Go girls.
Yeah, it was. It was a really good thing.
Victoria. Victoria told me that we if that
that was a possibility, I think that there must have been like
five of us or or so six of us left in in the race at that
point. And I knew that was sort of
spurring her on to get to that. And it was just like, that's,
that's something for us to just keep, keep, keep our hopes on,
you know, don't even if the the fatigues getting set in.
I mean, the males looked pretty strong.
I was actually quite surprised that they started dropping off
when they did I I was expecting them to hold off for another a
good few few yards, but when Victoria told me that it just
lit lit an absolute fire. And I do remember that this the
lap that we did ourselves when, when Martin didn't didn't start,
we just looked around because I mean, he was brilliant.
Like I think for about four or five loops he was saying, no,
that's me. I keep getting forced out, but
my crew keep forcing me. They're terrible people.
But I'll just get timed out this lap.
And he just kept showing up. And again, that's another thing
of you can't, you can't think that they're going to drop out
because people can hold on for us so, so long.
But when when he didn't start that loop, we just looked around
and we just did a little like fist bump.
It was just, it was such a cool little moment.
Yeah. Did you and Victoria ever run
the lap together when it ended up just the two of yous?
Or did you just go into yourselves and that was a kind
of conference? Mode.
No, no, no. Yeah, we ran.
We ran that lap together. It was, it was very special.
It was good competition mode. I know that's funny.
No, I think we were both we were had a wee chat about targets
because I wasn't sure what her targets were.
And ultimately that again, like say that's part of this event,
isn't it? You want to to help and assist.
That's the the name of the the 2nd to get to their target.
But she had already surpassed that and she was very content
and and not not continuing. So yeah.
Yeah, Victoria's got her other targets this year.
She's doing 12 backyards in 12 months.
So I think that's, although she wants to do well in all of them,
she wants to continue throughout the year.
Yeah. And they're all in quite short
succession. I think there's about 5 that
have only got 2 weeks between them, Yeah.
It's really inspiring, I think for women this year, especially
in ultra running this this is my first year experiencing the
ultras you yourself last year, Kaylee, but I don't know as a
from this is a question for the two of you.
Do you feel that it is starting? The female field is starting to
come up stronger and stronger every year now and there are
more females on the start line. Make you've been doing this a
lot longer than Kaylee and myself, so you might be better
versed answering that than us. Well, for me, I think going
back, I've been running for almost 15 years and the start
line in general has gotten 10 times bigger.
So obviously there are more females within that group.
Percentage wise. I don't know.
Hopefully one day we'll get to 5050.
I don't think it is that at the moment but well, I don't know.
Winning two female 1st and 2nd can only be a good thing for the
sport. Yeah.
And obviously Sarah, Sarah Perry taking the win as well.
That was, I mean that that the whole world champs of the
backyard was such an inspiration.
And Karen Nichols always been such a a big advocate for for
women getting into ultra running, but backyards in
particular. And it was talking to her at the
start of last year that really inspired me to to start and try
out a backyard. Yeah.
So well, Karen's mission is to get more females involved in the
sport. So a downside on you doing well
is now she's saying she's retiring because she's done her
job. So hello.
Hello. She's she's got, she's got more
left in her. I know that she's.
Not like to retire, yeah. She knows that as well, she just
doesn't want to admit it. Have you over since the last
four years, have you obtained any major injuries or have you
been quite lucky that way, Kayla?
Yeah. So no, no injuries.
I think I've become very well tuned into my body now and not
having the panic of any sort of pains or niggles that occur and
think, oh gosh, this is the end of it.
It's it's been quite switched on about figuring out why it's
painful, where it's stemming from, because typically things
that are sore aren't the area that's causing it.
So I've had a few instances of I'm not sure if it's shin
splints or not, but it does feel that's probably what it is.
But it gets quite sort of inflamed and a bit sore and
difficult to sort of flex my foot.
And that happens typically after long, long events.
So my first backyard Blair after last year that happened.
So it took a couple of weeks total rest bike goes away, no
bother. And then the same happens just
recently before, before Golsby during the back in the seven
marathons that that flared up again.
And but I, I knew it would. And that was my sort of intent
to get it to flare up because I knew I was going to have a good
few weeks total rest before Golsby and then the body will
adapt to that. So it shouldn't happen during
Golsby And, and that is what happens.
And then after Golsby, while during it, I had on my left foot
inside, I don't really know what it is, but it was quite, quite
sore and in the inside my foot, I've never had that before.
It's not sore anymore. It's fine to wait bear and and
walk and run. But well, I've not tried running
and I don't plan to anytime soon, but it's still a little
bit swollen. But again, I'm just not, I know
it's not an injury based on this sort of symptoms.
It's just trying to to be sensible and, and manage it and
not not rush back into into running.
So that's something over the past few months have been quite,
I've changed a lot is taking quite intentional rest days and
and recovery and not not worrying about getting back to
running because I know at some point in my journey a proper
injury will happen and it will take its toll.
If you are not prepared to take, take a good few weeks off
running. So you said recovery, Do you?
Is it just total rest? Do you change your diet during
that time? What do you do to recover?
Diet typically stays the same. So I don't, I don't change that
at all. If anything, I probably just eat
more, which is I find impossible.
But but yeah, my recovery is I walk a lot anyway.
I've got two dogs, so I'm always out walking then.
So a bare minimum. I'm always walking at least an
hour a day and during any sort of recovery period or I'll I'll
just pick up the indoor bike. I don't do anything intense.
Crazy spin class. I think I tried it.
I tried, did it again recently. I was like, no, this is not for
me. But yeah, just some easy
movement on the bike and that's that's really about it.
That sort of keeps things ticking over.
OK, Since you've won your last race, has have you been
approached for sponsorship or anything like that?
No. I've, I've never been, if
anybody wants to, then feel free to send me some free trainers.
But yeah, I, I think you need to be be like Nikki and go out and
talk to people. Maybe I think that's my problem.
You don't talk to people. So no, nobody wants to approach
you. I've not.
Been sponsored yet? I don't know still, still
waiting on Morton and Innovate to get back to me.
So, so since you're you're not sponsored is is there any in
particular that you like to wear?
Yeah, so I'm, I tend to just stick once I find something that
works, I just stick to it. And I'm also, I love a bargain.
So I typically and second hand stuff.
I've always been a big fan of charity shops.
And then obviously when vintage came along, I was like, oh,
hello. So I get most of my stuff is, is
actually second hand or gifted. Actually, I've had some very
kind friends that have gifted things to me.
For example, my the Salomon vest that I always wear in every
ultra and I wore the whole time during Golsby was gifted to me
by Lee, which was lovely. He just wanted coffee and cake
in return, which is amazing. My, my shoes that I wear, I just
stick to the speed goats, Hawker speed goats.
I found them and they've always worked well.
So I've, I have bought new pairs of those in the past, but I've
also been lucky to get reasonable good second hand
ones. So the ones that I wore at
Golsby were actually second hand.
So they're they're brilliant. And yeah, that that's really my
staples for my kits, my Salomon vest and my my speed goats.
OK, well another bit of kit that I heard a rumour that you've got
quite a few multifunctional headwear.
Some people call them buffs, snoods, whatever you want to
call them. But a little competition Out of
the three of us, who's got the most amount of buffs?
Oh, I I want to be ballsy and say no one could have more than
me. So I'm going to, I'm going to
stay say that, but I think I've got 35.
OK, Nikki. See, you're just asking that I
completely forgot to count because I'm not disorganised.
I'm I'm actually going to say I'm up there with you, Kaylee.
I think I've got and and it's ridiculous that I've only been
running properly for about two years.
I'm sure I must have at least 30, but I'm going to go and
count them. And I will comment on all the
social channels later on when this gets shelled how many I've
got because it's my favorite piece of cat.
It's so versatile. I I told you winning was
addictive. I've got 48. 48 No way.
There was a time when you didn't get AT shirt for finishing a
race and I know it's you shouldn't get T-shirts nowadays
because it's bad for the environment.
There was a time when everybody got a buff, so I've been running
long enough. I've got quite a lot of buffs.
We both have we both have a favorite buff.
I have I do have a favorite one. It's actually one of the it's
the it's the newest run Hearts run free one.
The well, I say newest, it was the newest, the danger zone 1.
I just love the colours of that one.
So that is one of my favourites. I think mine I've got 21
Scotland but because support Scotland no matter what and the
other one is my probably one of my favorite races is the
Catherine Trail and I don't know how many of those buffs exist
and how many people still got them.
I might be the only one, but the luminous yellow with the
cattering trail writing on it. Cool.
I think mine is probably is so hard to choose because I'm
really sentimental that way and think, oh, you know, when I look
at certain buffs and it reminds me a certain time.
So I love my flying one for the voluntary stand that I've done
that I love the devil one because of what I've done.
And I just love all the young hearts ones because of that just
introduced me into the whole world.
So I have a mixture and then I have a mixture of run club ones
as well. The I just support the clubs.
The the one thing I regret about Gossipy is not having a
different buff for each lap and like I had the perfect amount.
Why did I not see that as an opportunity?
For your training and eventing and everything like that, you
got the happy diet, so foods and drink and nutrition.
What do you do both within runs and out with runs?
How do you keep going? What's the fueling for you?
I stick to real food. Like I said earlier, I had one
gel in my life and I've never really touched gels since.
So real food works for me and I just got used to that through
all my training. And I've now I've again, I've
learned from going from having a total pick and mix smorgasbord
of job, but what if I change? And so I've had lots and lots of
different choices. Whereas I've refined it down now
to the staples, which is bananas, salted crisps, jam
sandwiches and fruit and nut mix, and then dates and
marzipan. That is pretty much my staple
for real food. I'd had Wheatabix for the first
time during a run and that went down a treat.
So thanks for that suggestion, but I had it with the soya milk
instead. That was brilliant.
And I have started making my own chocolate milk through soya
milk, cacao powder and Maple syrup and a bit of salt and that
that works really, really well. It's a sort of recovery
throughout long, long runs. And like I said as well, I sort
of struggled to eat through the through the night time.
So what I've been using is just pure Maple syrup with a bit of
lemon juice and salt. I just sort of to count them
into my wee pouches. So I take them with me for a
little squirt and then Tailwind as well.
So that's sort of my fall back is at least then I just get
because I can always take water and that's never been an issue.
But I get to a certain point where you feel your stomach
sloshing because you just, you just can't digest food anymore.
So you just have to have a lap or or an hour, whatever it is
where you just don't, don't eat anything.
Let things settle again. And that that seems to work
well. Yeah, you say you don't take
gels, but your Maple syrup is probably doing the equivalent
job of it. Exactly, Yeah.
Question, How many bananas did you have during the race?
I know I needed to count my banana skins, but what I had to
do was count how many I came back with and I think it was
probably about 13 bananas I ate in the end.
So it wasn't as much as I intended, but it was still a
fair amount. 13 / 38 yeah, that's.
That's a lot of bananas, yeah. Someone at work was worried
thinking like oh can you not get potassium poison?
And so she googled it and I think you have to take like 40
in a space of 24 hours. I was like, I'm fine.
But potassium's actually good for heartbeat, so that's.
Yeah, that's the surely with that as well you'd be bunding
that off as you're running as well.
Would you not only get potassium poison if you just sat sedentary
and at the 40 bananas? Yeah.
You're, I don't know whether you took any salt tablets.
You get potassium in that as well.
And if you were taking gels, you get it in that your tailwind,
there's probably electrolytes in that.
So your body would probably tell you if you were anywhere near
it. Yeah, Yep.
I've tried the Malzapan and dates last year and what a treat
that was. I was thinking that as you were
answering that question. It's Malzapan and date season
again with little and all they are bringing out the dates.
It's always think of you when I see them now, but.
They're normally, yeah, early on in the race, because typically
later on you just you get that, that dry mouth or like sweet
stuff. You just like no.
So you need, I think there was one lap I was having some nuts
and I just, I had like them in my mouth for about 20 minutes
before I could get get them down because you just have the effort
to to swallow. It's just, it's such a surreal
feeling to try and describe it to someone, but you guys
appreciate it. But you're known for being happy
the whole time. What?
What's going through your mind? What are you thinking about for
30 plus hours? Yeah, that is a great question.
And because that's what I would ask other people.
And I made a point of thinking, what do I think?
Because I know someone's going to ask me this and it's so
boring. I just think logistics.
I'm always thinking about what I'm going to do when I get to
the end. And I'm just thinking, right,
what's this next checkpoint, what time I'm on?
And it's so boring. That is all I'm thinking about.
Not boring at all, it's practical.
It is, it is, but I don't listen to to music or anything as well.
So it's it's mad to think that that's just all that time of
just thinking logistics. Is that in training as well?
You don't listen to music. Yeah, mostly in training, yeah.
So any, any of my long runs or any sort of workout sessions
that I do, I just don't do with with music.
And I think that's just really and podcasts as well, just
because I used to, I used to always listen, listen to music
and podcasts. But yeah, I've just that was
from last summer. I realised I gave that a wee
shot and and actually feel much better without it.
I think I'll need to try that because I can't imagine not
listening to music apart from in fact, the last couple of events
I've done, I've actually done without, which as you say does
kind of, it's just you alone with your thoughts and it's
quite interesting. So I'll need to try it on
training runs because it's something that I don't, it's
something I seem to do in events that I've I've never doing
training so. Yeah, I always have it with me
just in case. So it's always an option.
And actually what I did for this, this time around, I
actually recorded a voice note to myself, as cheesy as it
sounds, because I was in such a a good place on the on the
Friday. I was just so buzzing, full of
energy and I was like, this is there's going to come point
where I'm going to start doubting myself and all those
negative thoughts come in. So I'm just going to records
myself and I actually did pull it out at one point and it I did
genuinely help. So I don't know if anyone wants
to go down that cheesy hole, but it definitely it's worth giving
yourself a wee pep talk, record it and play it back.
I've done similar. I've never actually recorded a
voice note but I have like written things down.
It's hard to argue with your past self because you know that
your past self was in a better state of mind than you are right
now during the race. So.
That's exactly it, yeah. It's psychological, isn't it?
It's just anything that can help you get through those really low
moments. It's great advice.
Yeah. You touched on this a bit
earlier on with your skiing and The Walking.
Is there any other cross training that you like to do?
Not really. I do love walking, but like I
said, it's nothing. I just take the dogs for a walk
and other than just the indoor biking every now and then,
there's yeah nothing. Nothing really cross training
wise. I have I have dappled with the
idea of getting a bike so I can start commuting to work.
I've, I've started running to work on some of the days, which
I've really enjoyed, but I'd like to just be able to get to
work right from door, door to door rather than my run.
I have to drive to a certain point that's a bit more
practical because it's about 16 miles.
I think so. But I think I'd, I'd like to
eventually get into the point of, of cycling to work.
So that will be hopefully next year's edition.
Yeah, I've run to work a few times.
Not often, but it is 19 miles each way.
So but sitting sitting for a day's work worth of work
afterwards is not the most comfortable thing.
Not fun, I know. Even though you might feel
slightly smug, it's still yeah. I've been thinking about it and
my walk's only 6 miles away so there's no excuses for me now.
You've got to leave your house at like 5:00 in the morning.
It's it's yeah, not, not a great thing.
Do do on the way home, not on the way to work.
So you have went from couch to 5K up to backyard alters where
it's an unlimited amount? Do you have a preferred
distance? That I don't know yet.
It's one of those silly things where I'm like, I'd like to go
back and start perfecting the 50 Miller and start working on
that. But you get carried away with
all these other things and then you realise that you don't have
enough time to focus on that kind of of training.
So I think my favorite type of distance probably is the 26
miles. But out with an event I really
love a long adventure run and just plotting out a good 20 to
26 miles from here to here through some crazy terrain.
And it's just a proper adventure so.
So that would probably be my favorite distance if I was to
pick 1 here. And before any events, you're
saying you like to do the 26 miles out West events.
Do you get nervous before them? Before events, yes, I do not
normally the whole run up. It's it's pretty much the
morning or the hour before and it just comes in such a
unexpected wave and it's just pure adrenaline.
So the the most notable wave of that was the devil of the
Highlands last year and totally cool as a cucumber right up
until when we arrived and it was like try and eat the banana and
I was like pure adrenaline. Sorry.
Yeah, so that that still comes, comes and gets me, but I'm a bit
more prepared for it now. So I try and and take myself
away from from all the drama and just I say drama, but you know
what I mean, all the excitement and just sort of have a bit of
quiet moment to yourself to calm down.
Were you nervous at Gosby? It was much more excitement than
nerves this time, but I think again I had that mental switch
of when the nerves came, I've told myself it's the same
feeling as excitement. So I didn't let that sort of
take over. It was all a very, very quick
morning actually, the golf space.
So before you knew it, it was like you're at the startling
because we stayed over a night. So it was, it felt nice and
relaxed at the start. You had your breakfast and then
you just got your table all set up.
And so it didn't feel like the traditional style of going to a
race, it just felt like you were just joining your family for a
wee social run. And going going to a race.
Do you have a a dream race that you want to go to?
It's not really, but I think maybe because I don't know
what's out there yet. I know ultras are becoming more
and more popular in mainstream. You do hear about them.
But my dream race probably still is the West Highland way.
And it's, it's silly because I know I've done it already, but
that would still be my dream race.
The follow on from that probably would have to be the Kate Rath
route. Whether I want to do that as
part of the event itself or just go out and and do it in stages
myself, I'm not sure. It's definitely a route I want
to do. But yeah, I think of Scotland
very much is my where all the sort of dream routes would be.
Fair enough. And Speaking of dream routes, do
you have a a dream person you would want to run it with,
whether it's fictional, non fictional, alive or otherwise?
Yeah, I always really like listening to to Harvey Lewis.
So obviously, since I've come on the the Backyard Obsession, I
have very much listened a lot to his interviews and and sort of
followed his journey and I find him quite inspiring and I'd sort
of take a lot from his his way and outlook.
So I I can imagine him just, you know, time would just be such a
a breeze chatting away to and listen to him.
So probably, yeah, have to have to see Harvey Lewis.
You've had an amazing year, what's next for you?
What's next? So this is another unique thing
about golfspe was I didn't have anything booked immediately
after my next major thing isn't till like the summer next year.
So there was no nothing was overshadowing the event and it's
been great to sort of just chill after it as well and not have
that worry. But I am obviously still very
excited about the the big things that are planned for next year.
And it's funny how things escalate as usual.
So next year I have been accepted into the race across
Scotland, which is August 215 miles, which is very much a real
adventure. So I'm really looking forward to
getting stuck into that training.
I do have a couple other things booked.
I have actually got a place at Suffolk Backyard Ultra.
When I booked that place, it was very much because I wanted to be
amongst the elites, all those that that that go there.
I'm very inspired by Claire Banworth.
I think she's she's an amazing ultra runner.
So I'd just love to just say that I was at the start line
with her. And also it's a backyard where
if you want to get your high yards, that's where you can you
can get them. The race won't finish early.
I'm my I'm just a bit nervous about Suffolk now because of the
size of it and the logistics with that many people in the
tents and getting across the start line all how quickly the
minutes can quickly add up. So how it will all pan out, I'm
not sure, but it is one that I have got in the calendar booked.
And then obviously West Island Way is still an unknown, but I
will be very much doing that if if a place comes to be.
And Golsby, I have signed up for that, Yeah.
But it's all sold out already. They've done amazing.
So all spaces have gone for Golsby.
Yeah, yeah. I I did see your name on that
start list. Not that I've been keeping an
eye on lists, but. Yes.
Anyway, that wraps it up for us. How have you got any any new
books coming out that you want to plug or anything else that
you want to say? I have another little project
that might come to fruition that's not set in stone yet, but
that will be springtime of 2026 and that would be my own little
event. But I'm hoping to initiate a
backyard at a Country Park nearby.
So it is very very just concept stage shall we say.
I've got some initial queries sent out to try and see what
permissions are like, but all going well.
I'd love to be launching my own events sometime next year.
OK. Well, we'll look forward to
hearing about it, and I'm sure everybody can follow you on
Instagram. The happy Diet, as we've said
plenty of times. And I just like to say thank
you, Kaylee, for joining us tonight.
And thanks to Nikki for being Nikki.
And yeah, I'll just say goodbye from me.
Thank you. Thank you.
Lovely talking to you. Thank you.
Bye.