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Welcome back to another episode 
of Run Till You're Done. 

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Tonight Nick is done as proud 
and went out and got a superb 

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guest. 
Multiple spine finisher, 

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multiple FKT on the spine, 
multiple Barclay finisher, the T

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Dodger himself. 
We've got John Kelly. 

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Welcome, John Kelly. 
Thanks so much for having me, 

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glad to be here. 
Thank you for coming on, John. 

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So the first question that we 
would like to ask is why do you 

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run? 
Well, I, I ran as a kid. 

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I ran in in high school tracking
and cross country, but I kind of

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took a decade off and, and 
wanted to see what I could do 

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and some of the longer distances
and then discovered this, this 

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crazy thing called trail 
running. 

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And and I also have background 
and, and hiking and backpacking 

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and I loved the idea of being 
able to combine those and see 

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more in the limited amount of 
time that I have to get out in 

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these places. 
And you're, you're hiking is 

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taking you to some big 
adventures, big races, FKTS, 

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you've done spying multiple 
times. 

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You've done Berkeley multiple 
times. 

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If people don't know what that 
is, go and look it up because we

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don't have time tonight to 
explain what it is. 

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What? 
What motivates you to do this? 

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Type 2 adventures, Type 2 fun? 
Well, a big part of it is 

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getting out there and just just 
being able to explore. 

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I, I kind of have a, you know, 
the way I think of it myself, 

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which it takes a minute to, to 
think about this usually to, to 

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understand it, but I like to say
that I'd rather see some of all 

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of it than all of some of it. 
And so, you know, I know that 

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getting out there and running, 
I'm, I'm not able to soak in as 

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a few things as much as 
possible, but I'm able to see so

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much more in my limited amount 
of time. 

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But then also there's the aspect
of it that I've just discovered 

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by doing these things, by 
putting my selves in these, you 

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know, effectively artificially 
challenging situations that I'm 

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able to learn and and grow 
through that in a way that we 

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don't encounter in everyday 
life. 

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And and that does carry over to 
more day-to-day things and 

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especially to if I whenever I do
encounter actual real challenges

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in in life. 
And you've just been over 

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recently as well for, as Mike's 
mentioned, the Spain race, 

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you've done that a couple of 
times, done the Pennine Way FKT.

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How did you find that failed for
you this year? 

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It, you know, it, it wasn't the 
completely successful outcome I,

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I was hoping for. 
It was certainly better than 

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spraining my ankle and not 
finishing like I did last year. 

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You know, mainly I, I had some 
sweep issues. 

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I had a bit of a, an issue with 
a diversion that I missed. 

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And so there were a few small 
things that, that didn't go my 

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way, but I came out of it with, 
with a finish and, and a good 

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experience and again, something 
that I can build upon for the 

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future. 
So certainly I'm glad I was 

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there and and glad I was able to
get this one done. 

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Do you know how like you're 
having a a bad day, as it were? 

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What what's how do you get round
that? 

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How do you get back out and just
trying out the finish? 

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Yeah. 
And it's, it's difficult. 

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And in particular, because you 
know, on one hand, the more you 

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do these things, you, the more 
you have this kind of reservoir 

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of experiences in your mind that
you can recall and kind of tell 

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yourself, hey, you've, you've 
been here before, you've been in

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bad spots, you've came out of 
it, you've pushed through things

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have gotten better and, and 
being able to recall those is, 

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is incredibly powerful. 
But on the other hand, the more 

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that you've done some of these 
things and, and if you've had 

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successes in the past, it's very
difficult to tell yourself like,

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hey, you're going to continue on
and the result is going to be 

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worse than one you've already 
had before, but, but you're 

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going to carry on anyway. 
And so it is a bit of refocusing

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of what your goal is of, of what
you're out there to get from the

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experience. 
And so I, I do kind of shift my,

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my own goal posts a little 
closer, maybe adjust my, 

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honestly, my, my effort level 
to, to compensate for that to 

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where it's something that I 
feel, you know, mentally and 

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physically is, is justified. 
And also to, to just, you know, 

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remember that I, I'm not 
guaranteed to ever be able to, 

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to get out there again. 
You know, something might happen

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that, that prevents that. 
And I need to enjoy that 

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opportunity and and that 
experience while I can. 

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You said earlier that you don't 
always see things because you're

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basically going too fast. 
Horrible thing to have to be too

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fast, but you were obviously a 
bit slower this time, coming at 

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the end of the spine. 
Did you see things differently 

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at the end that you haven't seen
in previous years? 

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Well, the other part of the 
spine is, you know, you're, 

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you're dealing with 16 hours of 
darkness every day. 

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So probably a bit more than that
by the time you get up to 

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Scotland. 
So, you know, you can't see as 

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much. 
I've seen certainly much more of

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the benign way on my summer 
record attempts. 

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And but yeah, it was, it was 
very different experience 

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finishing this year where I kind
of the first time I was being, I

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was in the lead and, and being 
chased and I was all out focused

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on, you know, staying in the 
lead, maintaining that and, and 

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running. 
And this year, you know, I'd, 

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I'd already conceded that. 
And, and so it was very much 

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just getting out and enjoying 
the trip over the Sheviets. 

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And I, I even kind of told 
myself and Bernice that 26 miles

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from the finish with just that 
trip over the Sheviets, like I 

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can't believe I'm needing to 
convince myself on what was a 

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beautiful day to get out there 
and, and do that. 

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And so I, I did got up there and
it was one of the was still 

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actually daylight then and just 
getting up to the top of that 

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first climb and I could see the 
entire Shiva. 

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It's laid out before me that the
course, just every little peak 

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like I could mentally draw a 
line over the terrain of of the 

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remaining course. 
And so that was a really great 

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experience. 
And then just, yeah, being able 

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to to take that in and enjoy it 
a bit more. 

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I actually at the very last 
little time before the descent 

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to the finish is, is the shell. 
And I, I had a a bottle of iron 

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brew that Nikki Spinks had left 
at Burness and, and I picked up 

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and I've been drinking the whole
time over the Sheviets. 

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And so I, I popped off the the 
Pennine way over to the actual 

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summit of the show, climbed the 
rock formation, finished my iron

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brew and, and just kind of 
enjoyed that last little moment 

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before heading down. 
So it, yeah, it did. 

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Despite not having the outcome I
wanted as far as running it, it 

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did allow me to enjoy a few 
moments, much more so than I I 

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would have had I still been 
racing. 

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Yeah, really important question 
here. 

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Was it full sugar iron brew or 
was it the new artificial 

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sweetener? 
Yeah, no, it's you got to have 

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the the full stuff when you're 
doing these things. 

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Yeah. 
So someone told me afterwards 

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that there is apparently like 
some original recipe iron brew 

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hidden there in that rock 
formation on the show. 

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I probably just urban legend, 
but I didn't see any while I was

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up there. 
I would say when you're, you 

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said you had a different 
experience, but I find that 

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leading a race, the paranoia of 
somebody coming up behind you, 

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catching you, that is the the 
biggest motivator that I've ever

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had. 
So I'm guessing you didn't have 

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that motivation this time 
around. 

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Right. 
And, and that's something that 

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I've kind of joked in the past, 
I need when I get to these sweep

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deprived states where I'm really
having trouble staying awake, I 

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just need someone to like pop 
out from behind a rock wearing a

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bib or some, a bib number. 
And, and that would kind of give

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me that adrenaline shot to, to 
keep going because it very much 

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that again, that first year, I 
thought that I was comfortably 

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in the lead. 
And, and then Jason Cavill 

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really kind of snuck up on me 
and we crossed paths there in, 

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in Bellingham at the last 
checkpoint. 

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And just seeing him there, you 
know, having that that physical 

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meeting really gave me the burst
that I needed to push onward 

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from there. 
And that's a really nice segue 

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into the next question about the
sleep deprivation between your 

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FKTS, Spain, Barkley, your big 
events you've done. 

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Do you have a set sleep strategy
for each event or is it pretty 

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uniform across everything? 
Well, it's, you know, the, the 

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stuff that's quite 60 hours 
unless I kind of Barkley the 

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Pennine way records things like 
that. 

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I, I push through and until I 
simply can't and, and get a 

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power nap when I really need it,
which for me seems to be a bit 

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more often than most other 
people. 

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In last year's Barclay with with
by finishers, I was the only one

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that slept on my Pennine way 
record. 

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I tempted to sleep for about 40 
minutes in Gargrave. 

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So that's, that's something I, I
tell anyone who's like, oh, how 

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can you take any more time off 
that record? 

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And I said, well, there's 43 
minutes in Gargrave, just don't 

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stop in a van there and that's 
yours. 

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That's there for the taking. 
And so, you know, I certainly 

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continually trying things and 
trying to figure out things of 

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how I might avoid that. 
But it's, it's this area between

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60 and 120 hours like spine and 
tortillant that I, I just 

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haven't quite figured out what 
works best for me as far as naps

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or actual sweeps. 
And then, you know, you go above

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that sort of five day mark where
you're venturing into like my 

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Wainwright's record at the Grand
Round and, and I'm getting legit

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as in like, you know, one to 
three hours of sleep each night.

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And and that seems to to mostly 
carry me through that length of 

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time. 
Is that that that little gap 

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between 60 hours and 120 that 
gets you? 

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Yeah, that's what I'm. 
I'm still trying to figure out. 

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And what what happens when you 
don't get to sleep? 

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Do you hallucinate and if So, 
what are the hallucinations? 

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No, I've, I've never 
hallucinated. 

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And so, you know, that's 
something that I I know a lot of

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Jasmine Paris I know gets has 
had some very vivid 

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hallucinations, the kind where 
like, you know that their 

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hallucinations, but they're 
still there and and you can't 

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make them go away. 
So that's something that some 

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people experience, others just I
can't think coherently when they

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get really sleep deprived. 
Me, my issue is I just flat out 

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can't stay awake. 
I cannot stay on my feet. 

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I will fall asleep while moving 
almost. 

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I mean, actually going in just 
before Hornysted Farm this year,

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running through that kind of 
forest logging area, I, I caught

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myself like startled myself with
a snore mid stride as as I was 

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running. 
And so that's my issue is I just

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physically cannot stay awake 
when I get to that point. 

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But you've got you've got PhD in
electrical engineer, is that 

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right? 
Yeah. 

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And you're a data scientist and 
do you think that modern AI has 

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got a place in race planning, 
coaching? 

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Could it? 
Could it help narrow down what 

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you're doing, analyzing your 
races? 

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It could be a good assistant and
you know, it could certainly 

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develop in that area as well. 
I haven't experimented with it 

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much specifically for that 
purpose, but I, I think it's 

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what I found for most uses. 
I mean, particularly if you're 

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talking about things like 
ChatGPT and, and other large 

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language models, it's, it's 
great for kind of gathering 

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information and, and research 
and, and distilling things for 

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you. 
But then it's still very much up

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to you to make a judgement that 
and make sure that it's, it's 

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all legitimate and make sense 
and, and to refine it before 

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just taking that raw output and,
and accepting it as truth. 

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I kind of liken it to, you know,
giving an accountant who had 

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been doing everything with pen 
and paper, giving them a 

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calculator, but one that 
occasionally gives you the wrong

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answer. 
And, and so you just have to 

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still have that knowledge to 
know that, hey, that's not 

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right. 
I I need to check that one and 

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and fix it. 
Yeah, there. 

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There are certain things because
you're dealing with humans. 

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You need that human input to 
judge certain things. 

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We're just not there yet. 
Yeah. 

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And and to know what question to
ask to begin with, that's still 

222
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,600
a a huge part of of these 
problems. 

223
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:16,160
Yeah. 
So you do your events that range

224
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:20,720
between 6000 and 20 hours, Lots 
of training I would imagine 

225
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,800
behind that. 
What do you think about when 

226
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,320
you're out training or events 
while you're running? 

227
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,400
Well, I mean, one, one thing to,
to keep in mind is that I 

228
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:36,480
really, you know, I think people
assume that training scales 

229
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,360
linearly with the distance of 
the race. 

230
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,560
And, and that's, that's not 
true. 

231
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:47,000
I, I really don't train any more
than, than what I'll say a 

232
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,080
serious amateur marathon runner 
would do. 

233
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,440
And in terms of miles and, and 
time per week, it's, it's 

234
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,480
structured a bit differently. 
It has different focuses 

235
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,640
depending on where I am in the 
cycle and what race I'm going 

236
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,560
into. 
And I definitely don't train as 

237
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,720
much as I did when I was doing 
triathlon. 

238
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,560
Seriously, there's only so much 
running that your body can take 

239
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,360
before it hits diminishing 
returns or it becomes 

240
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,360
counterproductive. 
But circle back to your actual 

241
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,000
question. 
You know, I really, that's, 

242
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,760
that's my one time of day that I
don't specifically have to think

243
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:33,360
about anything. 
And, and so sometimes I'm just 

244
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,320
letting my wander, my mind 
wander or letting it zone out 

245
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,440
for a bit. 
Sometimes that's giving me that 

246
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:46,800
kind of period of unstructured 
thought to really process some 

247
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:52,160
problems or challenges that that
I'm dealing with it at work or a

248
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,440
home repair or something else 
tricky that I've been trying to 

249
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,720
solve. 
And just, you know, you can't 

250
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,760
always come up with the best 
solution when you're like there 

251
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:07,680
at the problem itself, fixated 
on it and, and trying to come up

252
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,000
with something right then it's 
it's been those moments where 

253
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,280
your mind is a bit more free and
can process things in the 

254
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,240
background that often times the 
the best solution pops into your

255
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,640
head. 
Yeah, I think what you were 

256
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:26,680
saying first by your answer 
there was work smarter, not 

257
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,040
harder. 
You're you're probably more 

258
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,800
focused on doing the right 
training, not more training. 

259
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,640
More doesn't necessarily mean 
better. 

260
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,560
Right. 
And, and a huge part of that 

261
00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,440
also has been, you know, I've, 
I've been working with David 

262
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:48,680
Roche for I guess six years now.
He he also coaches Damien And so

263
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,640
just having a coach, someone to 
kind of lay out that training 

264
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,840
plan for me and not have to 
think about it myself and not I 

265
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,680
have to constantly second guess 
myself of, oh, am I doing them 

266
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,080
up enough? 
Am I doing the right things? 

267
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,200
Am I doing too much? 
Just, you know, having that kind

268
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,040
of laid out, I do it, I'm done 
with it and I can move on and 

269
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:15,600
not have to worry about what 
exactly I'm doing. 

270
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:20,280
Has has been a huge time saver 
and stress relief for me. 

271
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,480
I'd like to ask as well, John, 
about fueling. 

272
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:28,960
What do you take gels at all? 
Or do you tend to use real food 

273
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,440
on the trails? 
What the What gets you by? 

274
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:39,440
So that's that's adjusted a bit 
for me over the years is kind of

275
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,040
my own preferences have 
adjusted. 

276
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,880
I've found different things that
have worked. 

277
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:48,400
I've, you know, gotten older and
learned about things like acid 

278
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:53,680
reflux and other stuff that a 25
year old doesn't usually have to

279
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:59,400
think about. 
And so, you know, about half my 

280
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:06,360
calories now come from liquid 
nutrition Tailwind, about 1/4 of

281
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:09,680
them for gels, which lately I've
I've been using Martin. 

282
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:14,280
I feel like that it it it works 
well for me and has a nice kind 

283
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:21,520
of land, non offensive taste. 
And then another quarter is is 

284
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,960
kind of additional food, 
sometimes real food that that I 

285
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,680
need on these going events. 
Supernatural fuel operating that

286
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:38,720
they're in the UK has has been 
great and you know, snack foods 

287
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,440
and really whatever I I just 
give myself that little margin 

288
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,120
to eat whatever I'm craving in 
the moment. 

289
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,480
And leading on from that, races 
like Berkeley where you're doing

290
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,760
a loop, you're coming back in, 
you're obviously stocking up for

291
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:59,680
the next 20 mile loop. 
How long do you stop between 

292
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,600
loops at Berkeley, and what do 
you take with you? 

293
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:07,800
As little as possible. 
And, and that's something that 

294
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:14,440
that really, I've kind of 
spurred a change in the race in 

295
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,760
the past 10 years where you used
to be, people could go back to 

296
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,760
their campsite, get some proper 
food, maybe even get a quick 

297
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,240
shower head back out. 
And, and now the margins are, 

298
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,720
are so thin. 
You've got to have that quick 

299
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,440
turn around. 
And so there's now turn around 

300
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,520
at the gate. 
There's a roped off area. 

301
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,200
And like between the first after
the 1st and 2nd loops, I'm, I'm 

302
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,760
there for minutes. 
I mean, I, I don't even sit 

303
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,240
down. 
It's swap my pack out, maybe get

304
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,560
a quick bite and and head on 
back out and and it is just, you

305
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,080
know what? 
What I've just mentioned is is 

306
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,800
my my food options when I'm 
there in camp. 

307
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:59,160
It's it's a great time to try to
quickly throw down some things 

308
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,440
that are are maybe less 
portable, like rice pudding. 

309
00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:09,920
Not not great to put in a pack, 
but it's it's great fuel for an 

310
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,120
innate station or stop or pasta.
Anything along those lines is 

311
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:20,560
good kind of supplement to get 
when available between loops. 

312
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,680
And do you get to keep the pages
from your book when you collect 

313
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,960
them? 
Yeah, yeah, it's I've got a, got

314
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,360
a box, a nice little collection 
of pages at this point. 

315
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,720
You haven't put them up as 
wallpaper. 

316
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:41,000
My first finish, I made a bit of
a collage out of them, which, 

317
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,160
you know, hangs up in my office.
But yeah, the rest of them are 

318
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,800
still in their little Baggies. 
Some of them have, you know, 

319
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,280
given to various people over the
years. 

320
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,520
But yeah my my 3 finishes at 
least I still have those 

321
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,080
complete sets. 
And I just have to ask as well, 

322
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:05,040
John, just before we move on. 
I know she's not ever guessed, 

323
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,160
but you mentioned Jasmine 
Paradis earlier and the world 

324
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,280
went crazy or our world went 
crazy when she finished. 

325
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,600
I'd just like to know what was 
that like to see first hand her 

326
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,480
running into the gate and seeing
her finish there in person. 

327
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,480
What was that like? 
Yeah, I mean, it was, it was 

328
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,520
incredible. 
I, I don't expect that I will 

329
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:33,480
ever see another moment like 
that and, and sport in person. 

330
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,960
And you know, it was really a 
complete mirror experience for 

331
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:43,160
me of, of 2017 when I finished 
and I asked where, where Gary 

332
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,000
Robbins was. 
And I just, in my mind, I fully 

333
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,160
expected like, well, he's either
finished or he'll be in any 

334
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,640
minute now. 
Like he's definitely finishing. 

335
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,000
And then he showed up just late 
and coming from their own 

336
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,200
direction and and didn't get the
finish. 

337
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:01,240
Where's this time? 
We were there. 

338
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,040
And like, knowing where I saw 
Jasmine on that last loop and 

339
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:10,880
talking with people who had seen
her at the the tower, just it 

340
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,720
seemed pretty certain that she 
wasn't going to make it. 

341
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,840
And so we were kind of resolved.
If like, oh, this, this is 

342
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,360
rough, you know, really close, 
but maybe next time. 

343
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:26,280
And then all of a sudden that 
there she was and actually my, 

344
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,800
my son weighed down on the other
end of camp, shouted, there's, 

345
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,000
there's a runner coming. 
And so it was, you know, this 

346
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:39,720
just unbelievable, surprising 
moment And just seeing her, her 

347
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:45,360
give her all and push up that 
last little torturous hill 

348
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:49,080
through camp to get to the gate 
was, was amazing. 

349
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:55,040
And and you know, I think it was
just 90, 99 seconds or so on a 

350
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,320
60 hour race. 
It's just unbelievable that to 

351
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:02,120
think about that, that, you 
know, an additional 2 seconds 

352
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:05,200
per hour, she wouldn't have made
it. 

353
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,040
And that comes down to you could
have taken 2 seconds per book to

354
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,120
RIP the page out and that would 
have been it. 

355
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,200
Yes, sure. 
Last his other race. 

356
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,000
Well, he's got various other 
races, but the one that I know 

357
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,640
about his backyard, big 
backyard. 

358
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,640
Have you ever been tempted to do
Backyard Ultra? 

359
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:32,160
Yeah, I certainly have. 
You know, as to when or if I do 

360
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,840
that, I don't know. 
It's it has quite the 

361
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,280
qualification process at this 
point. 

362
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:42,360
I don't know that I'm currently 
ready to devote an entire year 

363
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,480
essentially to to qualifying for
and and then doing that race. 

364
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,120
I also still have my own little 
kind of monkey on my back with, 

365
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:55,920
with Tour de Giant, which also 
happens in September, but it's a

366
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,560
very intriguing race format that
I'd like to try. 

367
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:01,880
It's also, though, you know, 
it's getting to the point it 

368
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,520
keeps getting longer and I, I 
just I, I, I don't know that I 

369
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,640
can take an arbitrary amount of 
time from work and my family and

370
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,800
just kind of say, hey, I'll be 
back sometime. 

371
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,680
Maybe there are other? 
Maybe two weeks, I don't know, 

372
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,320
sometime. 
You, you can come over and do 

373
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,240
the one in Scotland, the the 
Highlander, what you're more 

374
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,560
than welcome to come over and do
that one. 

375
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,240
No thank you, it sounds like 
it's probably better scenery. 

376
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:35,560
Yeah, awkward question for you. 
Is there anybody that you would 

377
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:41,760
like to go for a run with? 
Either live dead, fictional who?

378
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,800
Who would it be? 
You know what? 

379
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:51,640
I really, I'd love to see some 
of the, the kind of older greats

380
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,600
in their prime and be able to, 
to go for, you know, look at 

381
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,640
some of the, the people that 
finished Barclay 20 years ago, 

382
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:03,240
guys like David Horton and and 
Brian Robinson and see them out 

383
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,640
there in their, their prime 
doing what they do best. 

384
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,880
Get go for a run with, with Josh
Naylor. 

385
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,400
And, you know, people like my 
dad as well, who, you know, he, 

386
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,520
he took me out in the woods and 
out on these adventures when, 

387
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:23,440
when I was a kid and would 
certainly love to, for him to be

388
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,400
able to, to join on some of 
these longer excursions. 

389
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,360
Now hopefully, you know, I'll, 
I'll be able to stick with it 

390
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:35,360
long enough for, for my kids to,
to join and, and do these things

391
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:39,080
before I get too old to do them.
So, you know, I, I think that's,

392
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,960
that's probably the, the biggest
thing for me is, is just being 

393
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:48,200
able to kind of revisit past 
greats and, and past people. 

394
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,760
You mentioned talk to John 
earlier on. 

395
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,320
Is that monkey on your back 
happening this year then? 

396
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,160
That's playing. 
I'm hoping to go over there a a 

397
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,440
bit early and make a little 
summer family holiday out of it,

398
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,880
get a little training on the 
train and and not have a 

399
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,680
overnight travel to deal with a 
few days before the race. 

400
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,200
So we'll see. 
You know it. 

401
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,280
That one was similar to Spine 
this year, where last year I 

402
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:30,360
started out with like 18 hours 
of the best that I've ever felt.

403
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:34,080
Running just felt absolutely 
amazing and then suddenly could 

404
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,320
not stay awake. 
So hopefully I can resolve that 

405
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,960
issue and and have a a good show
in there. 

406
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,880
There there's so many variables 
that no matter what you do, it's

407
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,320
it's never guaranteed. 
And I'm just, you know, would 

408
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,480
love to to have the the dice 
clean to my favour on that one 

409
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,400
are. 
There any other big adventures 

410
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,000
that you've got planned, certain
races that might be happening 

411
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,480
very soon? 
Do you think? 

412
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,080
Well, I mean, I you know, it's 
pretty well I I given that I'm 

413
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,760
I'm returning to to Berkeley 
most years with it kind of being

414
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,560
my my home course and really 
double S as a visit to family 

415
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,400
now and and is a short trip for 
me. 

416
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:22,080
So certainly look forward to to 
being a part of that. 

417
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:28,680
And yeah, I think plenty of of 
big adventures ahead, but you 

418
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,800
know, with as as long as mine 
typically are, unfortunately I 

419
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,560
can't just turn around and and 
do one every month. 

420
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Well, we know you're on a tight 
schedule tonight, so I think 

421
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,520
that wraps it up for now. 
Hopefully you'll come back on 

422
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,920
and we've delighted you with our
Scotch banter. 

423
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,880
All I can say is thank you very 
much for coming on, John. 

424
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,560
Thank you Nikki for being Nikki 
and it's goodbye from me. 

425
00:28:58,080 --> 00:28:59,480
Goodbye from me. 
Thank you. 

426
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:01,720
Thanks so much, I enjoyed it.