Hello and welcome to the next episode of Run Till You're Done.
This week we have got a very special guest and one that I've
been really excited to speak to since joining Make onto the
podcast. I've found it really, really
hard to write an introduction for this guest because she's got
so many achievements behind her. She competes in her age group
for Great Britain and Jewel Thorns podiums, many events she
enters coaches at various clubs such as Epic Trails, the Westies
and Glasgow Tri Club as well as coaching individuals like
myself. And she has just finished race
directing the MO Guy Trail event.
And she does all of this on top of working full time and being a
bum, so I can't wait to hear how she fits it all in.
Welcome to the show, Nicola Dawson.
Oh, thank you. It's Sunday so you can call me
Nicola if you want to. Only my Sunday name so.
Usually what we would do is ask the 1st guest how they got into
running. But you've got such an athletic
background. I think we'll start with how did
you get into fitness in general? I think I've always just been
one of those children that was just sporty.
I grew up in the air, so most places getting about was just on
a bike as you did in those days. So it was just, you know,
cycling wherever you wanted to go.
And tennis was actually the main thing that I played.
I've played tennis since I was 7.
So all my summers were spent at the Tennis Club, cycling to
them, playing tennis all day, then cycling back.
But then I also wanted to do judo, so I did that, signed up
for athletics, did that. Anything that was a bit sporty,
I do. I just would just have a shock.
That was just, it was just part of life and that's I think the
substitute is still that. I just like to do sports and any
bit of fitness I can, I'll do it.
So were your mum and dads particularly sporty and your
siblings, or were you just a very active child?
It's. Just me.
So it was just, no, my mum wasn't.
She would occasionally go to a fitness class but you know, as
my dad's predominantly where he came, he's always been sporty.
So he played football to high level as a youngster.
Then I remember seeing him playing cricket and then curling
and he was still curling into his ACS.
He's 98 now but in his 80s he still went along with and they
got like they have little like add on things for curling sticks
and things. So you could have to bend down
and he would still go and curl until really he couldn't know
anymore. But even now he still does lapse
of the care home that he's in and the Zimmer has to keep
active. So I am basically just my dad.
And pointing it back to podcast about running.
So how? How did you get into running?
Running, I remember it must have it must have been about 12 and
there was an A race. It was an Ayrshire 1 and it was
a schools 1 and it was a mile and a half run in Co winning.
Of course I put my name down to do it.
I remember going out practicing running got the in the old days
Priest Java. I've gonna sound like dead old.
You had to get your mum or dad to drive the car around the
block to work out how far it was.
So I knew it was a mile and a half and I remember going out
practicing around the block and nearly dying.
And then I did that race and I probably still got the medal
upstairs. I was not first and like that,
but I did that one and I think that was probably kind of the
first like event. Then I did a bit of running with
Air Seaforth. I always wanted to do distance.
I am not a sprinter, but they would only let you do you had to
do the sprinting events first before you get into distance.
I just, I just failed miserably at that.
So I didn't really get to the distance events because I still
don't give me 100 meters. There's just no point for that.
But then I got into schools and it was cross country.
So the good old school cross countries wearing the little
vests and the gym knickers that you had to wear running the
Ayrshire sand dunes and February with Baltic, you know, West
Coast of Scotland, but he's coming off the sea.
It was delightful, but somehow I still run.
I don't quite know why, but I think that could have set you
up. Really.
Yeah. And then went into Tune
Tortoises. Before I went to any, I started
running with Tune Tortoises. So is that not the standard
tune? Tortoises get up the sport
knickers and. No.
Thankfully, probably. Yeah, so that was the that was
the younger days of getting into running.
And then you did my first half marathon at 17 and then did
London at 21. It's the first marathon.
At. 21 yeah, 21 I just decided to go into London.
Did it again at 23. So was it was it still a ballot?
Has it always been a ballot? Yeah.
And and is that how you got your place?
Did you get it through the ballot?
Oh no, I think for one year I did it for charity.
I think that's the first year my dad's still got that picture in
his care home of me looking very shocked, youngster with like
this kind of London Marathon official picture that they sent
you out because it wasn't, you couldn't download it.
You picked it and then they sent it to you.
Yeah, that was the first one I did.
That was a shock. I've still got Rose medals too.
And then, yeah, 23. And then does it do it for
another 20 years afterwards? I left a bit of gap between it.
So you do. I know because I know you
personally, you do lots of different types of running and I
know you're a very keen hill runner as well.
Is that one of your favorite types or do you just love all
types of running? I don't like roads, roads.
Roads are necessary evil. I think sometimes it's good for
when I'm trying to do training, like I'll do road running for
like intervals, things like that, because it's the best way
to try and get some of the training done.
And I'll do it quite often if I'm away with work when I travel
because I don't know lots of places.
So the road's the easiest bit. But if I can, I will always try
and get out onto the trails. It's just as I say, it's like
the natural habitat just found playing around in mud.
And I think it's lots of time. My early years were all spent in
the countryside, so I'll have nothing more than running around
the hills talking to probably the sheep or the cows or
whatever animals there that will listen to me.
But that's more kind of preferred Running is definitely
the trails. And I think it helps living in
Mogai that we're straight onto the West Highland Way, so
there's just so many trails roundabout.
Yeah, I got into hill running a few years ago.
Friends were like, come and try it, run with W.
He's like, no, no, no friends. I came along and like, this is
just what I'm doing anyway. But I've worked out that I don't
like running uphill that much, but I do love running downhill,
so it's that necessary evil. I've got to go up so I can come
back down again. But I do like my downhills.
Have you got any tricks to running downhill?
I think it's just No Fear because as soon as you put feet
into it you put the brakes on. So I'm like running your very
much unless it's like screen, I'm always like running your
toes shorter. Again, depends on the elevation
of the slope or the the incline, but I'm usually just running
where my toes arms flailing, just leaning forwards into it.
Let the arms go. They'll they'll help you down
just like gravity do its thing. So only if it's really screen
where I'll probably maybe lean back a bit more and dig the
heels and to get a bit more of a grip.
But the problem is if you put the brakes on, that's when
you're either you're going to injure your knees or you're
going to fall over. And I did see a great one of
that in Lakeland 50. It's a cracking downhill.
I just went for it, met a guys I saw that just put the brakes on
and then just went like that under and just slowed down in
this mud, no brakes. Just just believe and just go
with it. It'll work.
I think something sliding on your bums fastest anyway, is it
not? And I have done that many a time
off the back of Dungoing Hell for those that know the past
getting more and more worn away and especially if it's snowy or
anything up there I do now just sit on it and just slide my way
down because it is the quickest easiest way down it.
And Nikki said that you did. I think it was jewathons that
she said. I think that you probably did
jewathlons. Yeah.
What? What sports does that involve?
So that is running and biking. So it's run, bike, run.
I am not a swimmer. I will never say I'm a swimmer.
I will do triathlons, but the swimming is the worst element of
it. So if I've got a chance to do a
duathlon, I will much prefer to do that.
I got into those few years ago. I started off getting into
triathlon as it's already at the club, and then my eldest, she's
a swimmer, she's a fish, and I was helping out at one of the
triathlon events and it was an aquathon and Emily went and did
it. She swam amazingly, went and
ran. Mommy, why don't you give it a
shot? Do I really have to?
So yeah, the first time I was last out of the pool.
But then the good thing is I can make it up in the run.
And then I was like, right, that's not going to happen
again. And I'm not saying I can't swim.
I can swim quite happily, just not putting my head under and
breathing. So I went to swim lessons with
Glasgow, try Club and just basically just taught me to
breathe. So now I can, I can swim.
I will never be fast. My aim is not to be last, which
I'm usually not now in the swims.
But the good thing about it is that I like to bike and I like
to run so I can then start picking people off on the bike
and then more on the run, which really helps.
But if I can, as I said, do Athlon is much better.
So if you do a Sprint that is approximately just depends on
the event, it'll be a 5K run, about 20 K bike and then a 2 1/2
K run. And then you've got standard,
which is 10K run, about 40K bike and then 5K run.
They're the main distances that you would do with them.
So would you say that you're you've got equal strengths on
the bike in the running or would you say you're stronger and one
more what in fact I say is more stronger on a bike while they're
on? Definitely run the run is where
I'm strongest that, so I'll always make sure I'm holding my
own. I know there's some very good
cyclists out there. I think it does help having a
very nice bike. I'm still trying to get someone
to nicely buy me a bike that's really expensive, but I've not
managed to get one who wants to give me a bike.
I'll happily accept it. Yeah, you could.
I think with cycling you can spend a lot of money on lots of
of bikes to help with the speed as well.
I do. I've done a lot of work this
year, just especially for winter with Swift.
It's good for running, it helps and I use bike a lot as cross
training, especially if injured, the bike is really good to take
the impact out, especially of your knees.
If you've got any leg issues, I'll take it out and do it on
the bike. So bike has got stronger, but
definitely run is the strongest one that I've got.
And that's where you find you'll pick people off then once you
jump off the bike and you'll probably catch up with people
then at that point. Yeah, and the in thing for me is
take a lead on the run. No, people probably pass me on
the bike, try not let too many pass me and then back on the run
and try clean them back again. And you've been good enough to
be selected for GB Where's. That yeah, it was selected a
first a couple of years ago. I didn't been selected a few
Times Now. I didn't go this year just
because I had Cape Wrath coming up.
I went last year and it's been the year before.
So I've been went and did the Sprint and Bilbao.
The good thing at this with this European champs, I got selected
for the ones I qualified in. You can get to go see different
places that you probably wouldn't have gone to.
So it's really nice that way. First year I went, I was going,
Oh my goodness, what is this all about?
It was the whole kind of fear factor, monkey and shoulder,
you're going to come last. Look at all these amazing
athletes, what are you doing here?
But I actually held my own and I came in 7th.
So I was really happy with that in the first year that I tried
it and that was a Sprint. And then I went back, say not
last year I went to Cayumbra again.
Then that's Portugal, another nice place and did the standard
and again I seem to finish 7th. Seems to be in a natural place.
Don't know. So I've now got my spot.
I've qualified again for next year in the Sprint so I'm going
to try possibly try qualify for standard as well and go and do
both. And is that like?
Is that like running the set events that will have qualifiers
on it? Yes.
So they've got certain events across the kind of race
calendar, there's three for each category for each distance and
then for each of its triathlon or duathlon and if it's
Europeans or what else. So you've just got to pick your
qualifiers and then go to them. Only issue being Scottish is, is
hardly any of them up here. It's the only problem.
Mate, do you have any more questions on that subject before
we move on back onto the run? Get get on to the important part
about the cycling. So the meeting section of the
interview, you mentioned there Cape Wrath that you had entered
there and you took part in it last week.
So it's it's been quite the adventure that you've had even
for from signing up to the events that unfolded last week.
So what made you want to take on such a massive event?
That's a really good question. I think just sheer stupidity.
How many years looking at this race going, why would people
ever do that? What is this all about?
I think it's probably the year that I signed up for the Flying
threw up all the way back down the side of Oklahoma and said I
was never doing it again and that that didn't last.
So I think I've done I've done W Helen way raise and then I was
looking for the next challenge and I last year I knew people
that did it last year. I was like, well, they can do
it, I can do it. So I decided I was like, right,
I checked first of all, the main thing was with hubby and granny
to go right. Am I allowed to go?
And granny, can you look after the kids when I do go?
So I got family sign off first of all, and also just so they
knew I was going to have to actually train for this.
And then that was it. It was just a long time just
getting the training done for it because I was like, I don't
really know, although I'm a run coach.
I'm like, how do you train for a multi day event?
What do you actually do? Which was a lot harder than just
doing single days. And it was just very much
focusing on increasing the miles.
So I'm getting used to running on tired legs and then just
slowly building the mileage up each week and making sure I'm
getting the elevation because it is, there's a lot of an
elevation in it. I think it's about 12.
Is it 12,000 meters overall? And then you've got forth at 400
kilometers the full distance. So that was just trying to even
get there without being injured. That was also my worry of like,
I do not want to break myself at any point getting to that
position. Bit of a slight niggle a few
weeks before when I was doing the stucco crying race where I
seem to have pulled my glitz muscle, but I mean a bit of
physio to kind of fix that. And that was actually totally
fine for the whole thing. So that was kind of getting to
the race. So the race itself, I suppose I
spent a lot the first, the week before faffing.
How much faff can you possibly do with kits lying everywhere,
playroom floor covered checklists because there's a lot
of mandatory kit you've got to take with you.
You've got hot stuff for hot weather stuff for cold weather,
just the general mandatory things.
Your camp clothing you've got the the bag that you must use is
their bag and you're only 20 kilos in it.
So I what's the weather? How many times can you check the
weather forecast of T-shirts? Do I want shorts?
Do I want long sleeve? How many T-shirts do you even
want? Am I just going to be smelly?
Well as well, you know, you're not going to get a shower that
was an option in a few days. And then what food you take for
eight days because they'll provide your camp food.
So food in camp, then you've got to work at what you want to eat
for each of the 8 days and take that with you.
So again, it was looking at that going well, how long?
What's the distance each day? How long am I going to be out
for? What does that look like food
wise? What am I going to be thinking I
want by that time, what will last?
So I couldn't make a whole lot of sandwiches because by day 5
or 6, they're probably nice and moldy.
That was quite a lot of the planning that went into it
beforehand. So yeah, a lot of time spent on
my spare and the playroom floor just covered and stuff until I
actually got it sorted. And then what we did was we went
up to Fort Williams. That's where the start is on the
Saturday. So you got up there, you get
your bag checked and weighed, came in at 15.5 kilos.
I'm like, I think I could actually have sold a kilo to
each person for like a tenner. People would have paid for it
because they were over. Was there a minimum or a maximum
weight that you had to carry? Maximum 20 kilos in the bag that
they take. So it's not in your running bag,
but in the bag that goes to camp each day.
So you have this massive bag that you fill with all of your,
you know, your clothes, your food, everything for the week
and they take that to camp and they move that each day for you.
So that's the bag that had to start off with as under 20.
So they weigh it, they do your mandatory kit check, you'll get
your picture taken, the one that's using the tracker.
And then they do the big base briefing on that Saturday and
you get your little wristband and everything like that.
And then Sunday is D-Day where they take you down to you start
again in Fort William, there's two starts.
It's 11:00 and a 12:00. I was not paying any attention
when I was doing various entries to pick a time.
So think all the keen, eager people go for 11 whatever, find
it up at 12. So put into the 12:00 one.
So you get your tracker. Basically you waved goodbye to
your family, which was husband and the youngest.
The youngest didn't actually get the van.
Just like see you later. Can we go to McDonald's now?
I think that was kind of the question.
Or when can I get my second breakfast?
And then, yeah, on the ferry over this little ferry that goes
over and then they'll give you, you get tea, coffee, biscuits,
and then it's start of day one. So yeah, that day one.
So that was running from that that Bay there all the way over
to Glenfinnan. So Glenfinnan Viaduct.
So you, you said you can go down and across and up.
Don't ask me names and locations because I'm pretty useless at
that, but. The weather was hot.
Shortest day out of the whole 8 days.
No, I think the last day is the shortest day.
Right. Day one was, I can tell you that
much. Hang on one second and I will
tell you what day. Day one because I was looking at
earlier. I'm going to have to look at
strap by though to find it. While you're searching, did you
have a minimum calories that you had to carry HD?
No. So it's just what?
You thought was a. Yeah, yeah.
Then it just quite often they would check in the morning like
whatever they had decided was a random kit check.
They might say let's see your food, let's see this, let's see
that. But no, there was no, no maximum
or minimum that you had to have. The only one was in relation to
water. Now to make sure you had food on
you, but water was the main 1. So standard you had to carry 1.5
litres, but then hot weather they made you up that to 2.5
litres and then because of the way that we had, they docked it
to that level of 2.5. But what I opted for was 3 each
day simply because once you're out they don't give you water.
It's down to you to find water and because it's been so dry,
the streams were really dry, so you're not getting the amount of
fresh running water that you would usually get.
So I prefer just to dissipate more and then work that down and
then fill up rather than some people that I think somewhere
not going out with the 2 1/2 litres they have not and they
were just having to find streams continually to fill up.
I was like, I don't want that hassle.
I just want to know that I've got clean water and I'll last
for as long as possible. Did you take something to clean
the water or were you relying on most hill water in Scotland?
I would drink it probably. Not.
Advisable to anybody else but. I well, my water that I took
with me with three liters was always from camp, so you always
knew that was fresh water. So that was fine.
But I did take tabs with me to clean the water if I did have to
use it. Seeing that when I did, I
actually didn't use them because I looked at the water.
I'm like, actually, you're, you're running free.
I'm totally happy with you. There might have been occasions
if you had been caught really short going right and this is
the best that it is. I will put tabs in, but I was OK
with what I chose the water, but it was there was some bits
showing there should be water running through here and there's
absolutely nothing. It was really, really dry,
didn't. Even realise you could get tabs
like to sterile, I did something I would never think of.
Like I know you can get these special bottles with straws with
filters and things like that but that's a really good idea.
I didn't realise you could get that.
Yeah, I think they've had problems.
I think depends where it is, because you never know if
there's a dead sheep further up or if it's near a bothy then
people have been staying in it. What else is in that water area.
So it's just looking around and being a bit more cautious with
what it is and where it is. But it's, I mean, I was like,
no, the bits I got it, there was no livestock anywhere.
There was nothing. That was just a nice fast
flowing stream like that'll do me.
Just as well, before we move on to the actual event, going
through it does 8 days and I would imagine you've looked at
each day at distance wise and things.
Did you do any sort of like simulations, like right, I'm
going to run this distance on one day and then I'm going to do
a really long distance the next day and then I'm going to cut it
short. Or was there anything in your
plan like that at all to kind of simulate, as you're saying, the
tired legs and things? Not so much specifically the
same as what was in the race, but what I would quite often do
is say like a long run on a Saturday and then I go up a hill
on a Sunday, right? So again, it's going, it's
another day, It's more elevation.
It's just tired legs rather than going, right?
Well, this day is 30, this day is 50, right?
I'll do those. I was more going, right?
Let's just get out, just get the tired legs, get the elevation,
and just kind of keep trying to simulate as much as possible.
Before the race, did you get a chance to wreck anything?
No, probably would have been a good idea.
Now I thought about it, but just unfortunately it's the logistics
of going up to Fort William. You're nearly three hours.
Then even getting onto probably decent bits of the of the trail,
you're another probably another hour.
You're talking about a full weekend.
And I think I would probably been killed if I'd actually
asked to vanish for a full weekend to go playing in the
hills. So that was that was not going
to happen. Yeah, bets in the West Highland
way. A lot's been up the campuses, up
the Kilpatricks and quite a few hill races as well that I did to
try and kind of do as much simulation as I could without
actually going on the on the route.
Oh, I did do an awful lot on my turbo with YouTube.
So I sat at Penn on my bike and watched some really good YouTube
videos of people running the Cape craft.
So there's quite a lot of them up there.
So I would pretend I was there and watched those to try to kind
of get an idea of what it was like.
And as you say, like using the tumble, that's a really good
idea as well, you know, for all three of us up here.
And it's like trying to fit any sort of training and for
anything. A lot of the time.
I think it's quite hard for a lot of people like with
childcare and what have you. So I think the tumble, it just
takes a bit of stress off that you can jump on it for however
long and you are still there. Yeah, it definitely helps for
for the kids for that. And for me a lot of the joggling
goes round going out early in the morning so that I'm back in
time for then doing any activities or so say I've got
one that's a swimmer. Quite often we can be at
swimming competitions all weekend.
For anyone that knows swim meets, you spend 8 hours at a
pool, you watch them swim for about 30 seconds, then you've
got about four hours wait, then you watch them swim for a
minute, then you've got an hour away.
So what I would often do is go right, I've watched your swim,
I'll be back and then vanish out for a run and then come back and
do the supportive parenting. And I juggle quite a lot of runs
around whichever random place I was in and a swim competition.
It's a great way to utilize your time as well.
That's a really good time management tip as well.
It's the only way to do it. I'm like, if you're trying to
juggle it, see if you only have half an hour, half an hour,
better than nothing. Just go, you can use it.
And if it's half an hour, I'll go right intervals.
Let's get some speed sessions done.
That's that's a productive way to use that time, definitely.
So going back to your day one. Right.
And then I found it day one. I have got via my watch which is
I have a Chorus 1 and Strava says 34.56 kilometres and 785
metres elevation. So it started off that was quite
nice. Well, it starts off about 10K on
roads, so slightly different. And then you head onto a track
kind of trail. And then there's one particular,
it's that kind of long on a long gradual climb and then one hill
and it's one was main hill in it.
And then you're you're down the other side.
And then all the way into Glenfinnan.
It was I was running with Emma, Emma Mikhail.
She finished actually third in Cape Graf.
Emma and I are both westies and we ended up just, we started
together and we just ran together full time going.
I think we're running a bit fast, but we feel fine.
Then we go, right, we should walk this bit, let's walk this
bit. Should we walk this bit?
And then we started catching up with some of the people from the
11 O clocks as well. So we started passing some of
those. But again, we didn't know how we
were doing. We just ran because it's the way
it felt throwing up the big hill.
I got I was starting to feel a bit, it's just too hot.
I don't do heat. And Emma, you can tell I was
like, Emma, just crack on, away you go.
So she kind of went on ahead of me at that point.
So just. Yeah, it was it was too warm as
we're all both going. It's just too warm.
We did get to see an adder that day in the trail.
And I always heard about adders, and I've never actually seen
one. And there was massive adder
cuddled up in the middle of the trail, sunbathing.
No, I'm going. There's an adder.
That was an adder. Oh, I should have got a picture,
but it wasn't in the back. Never got my picture of that
one. Yeah.
So she into Glennon, it was lovely, took just under 4 hours
and it was the viaduct was right behind into the stream for a
wash because that was the only washing facilities and then just
started getting sorted. So that was the first day in
camp. So it's like oh, where's my
camp, where's my tent? So we've each allocated a tent,
each tent sleeps 8 and it's like 4 pods of two.
There was a runner missing in my tent and just the way it worked
out, I ended up getting a repod myself.
Wasn't clean. So they put your big bag in your
tent. And so to me, it was very much
race admin when you get in and it was the same for every day.
I would just get in, take like my shoes.
You can take them into your tent.
Had to be left outside, Take my shoes and my bag off.
Go in, throw out my sleeping bag in my room mat, get them out,
find my clothes. As I was pulling out clothes for
like putting on, I'd also go right where there's tomorrow's
T-shirt, there's tomorrow's this dirty things straight in.
I did actually do quite a lot of the admin just sorting out at
that moment in time before I go get a a wash.
They did a nice little whirligigs to hang your washing
your stinky stuff on to dry it off.
So hang your things up and then it was as was one of the
priorities. Find your cutlery in your bowl
because you had to take that. That was always packed.
I worked this out. Pack it at the top, especially
the cup, to go get the chips. And for anyone that goes in Cape
Wrath, no, the chips are the best chips you'll ever have.
Ever. So get the bowl of chips, salty
chips and a cup of tea and then you'd basically just kind of
kick one round chips and tea, chips and tea until food came
out and then you get your dinner.
It was all vegetarian, which is fine for me because I'm veggie.
Think if you could probably what my goodness is no meat, totally
fine, food was good. Then what you would do is in the
main room you could charge had a big Bank of like power packs or
things to charge. You could charge all your
devices like phones and watches and everything lying.
And then you could get your race mail.
So on the timing people could on the timing app, you could leave
me messages and you would go and give them the number.
And then you get this big print out of like nice messages sure
did that as well and just catch up with anyone.
And then you get see the medics and like that as well.
So that was all done in camp. So 34 Ki think it was you said
yeah. What had you planned to eat that
day and did you eat it of? Course not.
I thought I was drinking really well, you know, What were you
thinking? I think was just having a camel
pack on. You're never quite sure.
I was like, they're not drinking.
But then you got pulled the water out.
You're like, well, no, I wasn't. No, I did have.
So I'd taken a few gels, boom bars because I do like the boom
bars because they're not sticky like gels, but they're light
gels. And I think flapjack, possibly I
might have been in. I like my flapjacks, especially
39 P Home Bargains ones or a bargain.
So I did munch. I did.
I did eat things because I was good.
I did eat but just not as much as I had put in my wee bag.
But I think my thought was given we don't have like drop bags and
I'm not going to pick anything up, it's better to have too much
than too little. And then I just roll it on to
the next day. But I think the first day it was
I didn't drink enough and I thought I had.
So did you learn that lesson on the days after that?
Then when you seen that I thought, right, I'm going to
really need to up my hydration for last in the next few days
here. Yeah, I think the first day
didn't really matter as much because it was under 4 hours and
I was drinking. But I was like, I know the next
days are longer and I know I need to make sure I'm staying
hydrated because alcohol often get a really sore head as well
from running in the heat. So I was good as I'm using
precision hydration tabs as well.
So I was putting one of them in my back.
Well actually put two of them in my backpack in the bladder.
So I always had them on tap and then I had water and like my
soft flask at the front. So it was really just trying to
drink between the two of them. And eventually once in the
latter days, I was like every kilometer, just make sure I'm
drinking like a couple of steps every kilometer to me just to
kind of keep the regularity. And even it was just a couple, I
was like, it's still more just getting back into me.
So each day, each morning, is it a set start time that you have
to start or can you go out when you wake up?
You can go out anytime between 7:00 AM and 9:00 AM.
The really super fast people, they are kind of given times to
go out at, as in like you can't go out until after 8:00 or
something like that. The reason being is that as I
described, at camp's amazing, but they've got to move camp.
So they don't want the Super fast people to go out at 7 and
get into camp before camp's even set up.
So they've got a bit of a delay for when they go out and that
gives people, obviously the camp people, time to dismantle camp
and then get to the new camp. I predominantly chose to start
at 7:00 Day 2. I just wanted it because the
forecast said it was going to be really hot and sunny.
I don't like hot and sunny. So my thought was let's get out
as early as possible to avoid as much of the midday sun as I can.
Day 2 It was a big day as well though, was it not?
Day 2 was day 2 was 56 kilometres.
Now they lied to me at one point.
I was like, I saw, saw some people.
I was like, right, where's the finish?
Just around the corner, about a kilometre to go.
And I'm like heard that old chestnut before.
So was not to go. So it was yeah, 56 kilometres.
And I've got 2149 metres elevation on that one.
And did that feel like 2000 meters of elevation that day?
I think, yeah, for that day we went out.
Glenfinnan, you went along and then you went up.
And that is the one where I got caught in video.
I had this climb and the sun was beating down and I was climbing
up and then all you hear is that drone, that drone noise as you
drone above my head. I've got to smile and not like,
look like I'm swearing a lot as I'm like marching on up the hill
and then the cameraman's at the top because he's always at the
top of a hill to look at you, you know, grabs a smile again.
Yeah, that was quite a long up. And then it ended up running
with couldn't. The guy was German.
We kept bumping it, like he would catch me in and up and go
past me and then down a flat I'd catch him and it was like tag
team the whole way along. And certain bits where there
wasn't the path you were relying on the GPX to go.
We know we're going somewhere that direction, how we're going
to get there. So yeah, it was really nice.
It was, I say it was good old campsites, so a bit of bog, but
a flat crossing. Yeah, I quite like Day 2.
And then the final bits, Oh no, we came down.
I'm now remembering what Day 2 was.
It's coming back to me. There's a lovely bit we can do
with a beach section, long lovely rocks and to clamber some
of that. And then there was this open bit
where the Loch went into Little Stream and I didn't see it and
he just shouted deer and I looked over and I was there
about 10 to 15 deer just having the weekdays.
Then not long after that, Marcus, who won it came flying
past Bye and then a massive big aircraft.
This there was a must be RAF exercise and military exercise.
This massive plane came over, but it was like so slow.
It was like it's going to fall out the sky.
That then came over that part. Yeah, it was quite, I did quite
like day 2 because then it finished off with his lovely, I
would say quite like Traily running along the edge of the
lock as we came in and that was really, really nice.
Although that's the bit I was lied to and to camp, although
that was the camp with midges, a lot of midges that evening.
And day 2 is where you took the lead.
Wasn't at the female lead? Yeah, it wasn't.
But like looking at the timings I remember it wasn't by a lot
was it? No, it wasn't between Emma and
I. So on day one it had finished
with there was Florence in the lead, then it was Emma and then
myself. And then going into day 2 it
switched because Emma and I weren't running together in day
2. And it turned out just looking
at it, there was, there's quite literally a minute in it between
Emma and I. Yeah.
The way the way day 2 worked out and again, I wasn't, I wasn't
running for place. I was, I was running the way I
felt and I felt comfortable. So I just kind of kept running
and just like, let's just see what happens.
And how did how did that feel like?
Did I take it you got told that that night or you seen it?
Yeah, When you start doing the checks to see, oh, how did it
go? Once everyone's coming in,
you're like, I'm like, oh, that's quite nice.
I'm like, but on, on now the pressure's on.
You always get that wee feeling of pressure.
It's actually quite nice to further down when you've not got
that feeling of pressure because you're like, I'm going to have
to try and do something here and do I want to try and maintain
it? What what is the possible?
But I was like, I'm just going to take each day and see how it
comes and if it's day, there I stay.
If I don't, I don't. But I'll just enjoy it, do it.
Well, I can and say I'm currently first.
Being in the leaders makes party and I always think that I just
feel as though I think if that was ever me, that would be too
much pressure. So it's it's quite cool.
You know, Emma and I did laugh at it.
So we knew it was between the between the two of us at that
point of time. You're saying about the
aircraft, I think, and I could be totally wrong, there's a NATO
exercise on that week. So there's like various European
countries all doing an exercise and all around Cape Wrath
there's lots of MOD land. So that was probably what you
saw. Yeah, it was a big plane.
So in camp is quite a lot of goods, like social vibes between
you said that you and them. I had a bit of a laugh that
there was a man in it. Yeah, yeah, it was quite, they
were lovely because a lot, a lot of people did know and then a
lot of people didn't know. But everyone just got on so well
and just made a lot of new friends that are already going.
Well, let's try catch up afterwards.
Let's go for a run as well. So no, everyone was really nice
and if things weren't going right, they were having a good
chat about it. Yeah, it was really nice vibes
and the same in your tents, getting to know the other people
in your tent and tune of cheating them on as well.
Especially when some of them maybe went from the main event.
I think it timed out and then stepped down to the Explorer.
Then again, you just thought, oh, what are you doing today?
I'm just having a good chat about it really.
And make a good documentary, I think unless there's one being
made and I've not, I'm not aware of it.
There's lots of different ones about it, yeah, but it'd be
quite good to do make another one from it.
Like a Big Brother kind of scenario.
See, when you finish any day and you get back to camp, are you
allowed? Like as long as I've got camp
set up you're not too fast. Can you eat at any time for
their food and how much can you have?
Do they set how much food you're allowed or eat whatever you
want? You can eat as much as you want.
There's always chips usually seem to be always chips and soup
seem to be the two things you could always get.
And then dinner, I think always get served from 6:00.
So that's when the dinner came out.
It wasn't really, you didn't really get a choice.
It was this is what dinner is. So it would be like, I have to
think now, say like there was a Curry with rice, naan bread and
then salad and then they'd be dessert as well.
So it was a good and then you could go back up as well many
times. And did you have the menu before
you got there? No.
What were the desserts you got? Talus.
The first one was sticky, Light, Sticky toffee.
That was just about every night. There was one night, I can't
remember what it was, it was chocolate roll and custard, but
I was not feeling the love for food that night and that was
off. Actually I can't remember which
day it was, but the custard went down really well.
And on my final night they did bring out the apple crumble and
ice cream and that is a favorite.
But then it also tree bakes as well, so you can go get tree
bakes. I think I would have been happy
with any of them. Yeah, yes.
So it always was a good selection of Kate's.
So day three, How long was day three?
Day three is what they class as the long day.
It's not the longest in terms of distance, but it's the long,
it's the hardest day. So it was 65 K or 65.8 and 2813
meters elevation. On that day.
Emma and I just, we actually sit out together and we just stuck
together for a very, very long time just kind of keeping each
other going. And we were saying this quite
often, going, you're keeping me going or you're keeping me
going. I'm like, oh, and you go ahead.
No, no, no, no, no. And I think we were dragging
each other through. It was hot.
It was very hot that day. And it was just continually
filling up with water where we could.
There was a lovely, lovely waterfall we always get the
pictures at. There wasn't really a huge
amount of water in it. I do remember that part going,
oh, is that supposed to be that really nice waterfall?
But I feel I need to go back and see it.
But it was such a hot day. It did luckily cool down later
on and then we got this lovely section again.
I really should actually learn the names.
It was more towards the end I'd taken in, I'd overtaken Emma on
an uphill and then it was a flat and it was a downhill because
she always used to take me in the ups and I would take her on
the downs this downhill. And I just managed to just, it
was a nice downhill for me and I just kept going for a long dash,
long way and it was just nice and undulating the cloud to come
over. And I was at that point the
tunes I think came on because I was like, right, we're now 10
hours and I'm thinking I think a wee bit of music.
That was the first time I've actually put my tunes on.
Need a wee bit of music at this point.
And then reached the checkpoint and it was mountain rescuers
there and I was like how far to go.
I remember going 16 K and I'm like my watch was telling me 10.
I did have a jokingly swear because I did swear quite a lot
in the race. Luckily they were, it was not
16, it was only about 10. Then it was like a track and
then it was the final uphill. Now that uphill was absolutely
horrendous. I think by that point, you know,
that way when you're probably done nearly 11 hours and you're
like another hill into this, but I can see people coming behind
me. I'm like, I'm just going to keep
going. And then the downhill on day
three. So this is great downhill.
And then the downhill wasn't, it was so technical and then we got
into this, but it was like chicaning all the way down.
It wasn't really a track, but there was like the grassy
hillside. I was like, I'm just going back
to being a hill runner. And I was like off this trail
and I just went down the hill instead.
Got eventually through all of that to the bottom.
And he actually then made you do a river crossing.
I was like, I kept my feet pretty dry until now.
So through river crossing into camp, but that was that actually
felt good to get across that into camp with the river
crossing and then going back to the river to get washed, which
is quite nice. So and it was the longest day
that took over over 11 hours. Was it nearly 12 hours?
I think at two. No, no, not quite 12 hours for
that one. So that was that was a long day,
but it felt it felt good. It was a nice one.
When we came in, it was the sun was the sun was shining.
It's a nice camp. The midges did love that camp as
well. It's another midgy midgy haven
for them. For day three, then it's like
the longest and hardest day. They're saying you've already
got day one and two mileage under your belt.
How did you have any mental coping strategies when you went
to? Did you go to a DART place or
the pain cave or anything? I think day three was actually
the only bit was going up that final uphill because I just kept
feeling like I wanted to be sick.
But I think it was just the he and just exhaustion by that
point and I could see the top of it.
I wasn't, but I think that was the only bit.
But I quite happily had my tunes on, so they just kind of kept me
going. I think that was probably it.
And then coming down, really, I can see camp.
You've just given me the hardest blooming downhill to get to
camp. So annoying.
You can see it's like doing the West high long way.
You can see Kinlaw Cleveland. It's a blooming long way away,
but you can see it. You've just got to try and get
to it. It's a bit like that.
So yeah, eventually made it down.
That was the hardest that I think on day three, but quite a
lot of it actually started enjoying with it.
It wasn't the worst. And I think the main thing with
day three is because people say day three, if you go over day
three, you're fine. So I was like, right, actually
day three is done. It's not as bad.
It's done. That's it in the bag.
When you say you had Emma's company as well, did you have a
for long gone day three or were there quite a lot of long
stretches where you were yourself or were you with people
for a lot? Of it, a lot of it, it was Emma
and I. I'd probably see about 8 hours
at least with Emma. The two of us just kept going.
There might be little bits where one of us would go ahead, like
she quite often we go ahead in the uphill, but then she would
know that I would catch her in the downhill.
And that's just what we said is like you just go because I'll
come and get you. Yeah.
And that's just the way we worked it.
And we just, yeah, kept going together, which was nice.
And how? Was your food that day and the
hydration? That was much better.
I well, what the good thing on day three as you go, well,
seeing that you go through, you go past a shop.
They were like there's a shop you can get a coffee.
Brilliant. So we passed this first V1 and
then there was like another one further on.
We're like, well, stop at that one went in and we're like just
went dying. Went need a coke.
I want a coke. Not a problem.
We've got Fentimons original Coca-Cola.
That is not a can of Coke. I was not impressed at all.
Really not impressed up with that.
I did not do the trick. Well, actually I did.
I went down very, very quickly and then I bought another bottle
of water there and filled up the water at that point as well.
So I knew I had three on me. That was another litre.
So that was gonna brought me up to four and then I filled up for
the last couple of hours another with a stream water.
So that was 4 1/2 litres that I had.
So I was like and I drank all of that.
So I was like, I think that's pretty good going for me.
And it was that the the the gap had widened, hadn't it?
By that point it. Had widened, not ridiculously
so. I was sitting at 2411, Emma was
2426 so 15 minutes between US and then Sarah was sitting
behind in 2439, so I had half an hour and Sarah at that point so
I had slightly widened. And how was your sleep on the
first three days? How did you manage to sleep in
camp? First one was fine.
Then I remember one night I was getting the legs were getting,
the calves were getting a bit crampy but I just put my calf
sleeves on so as soon as I put them on they were OK.
Then at another night where I sunburned on the backs of my
calves. Because you're travelling N the
whole time the sun's in the back of you quite a lot of it so you
don't really. It's not like you feel it as
much, but it's not on your face. But I hadn't realized how
sunburnt the backs and my legs and my calves had been.
So they were like radiating heat.
So I had to take my bottoms off just to actually let the heat
escape. So that was the only problem.
And then I remember the final morning, some guys in a tent
through but must have got up at about half four or five and
we're talking and you're like, shut up.
Really. No, it's too early.
Some people would get up at 5:00 to get ready to take them, two
hours to get ready to leave at 7:00.
And I was like, no, not me. Did you have earplugs or
anything like that with you? I did.
I've managed to acquire them. I travel quite a lot with work
and I've managed to acquire up here for these eventualities.
So yes, they did eventually go in.
I think Dave would have had put them in because we're also near
the toilets. And then as you all know, like
Portaluze, that door slam, that's quite annoying as well.
Yeah. And about your sleep, did you
sleeping bag, was it too hot for it?
Did you have a row mat or what were you?
Sleeping. Yeah.
Luckily, her friend Mary, she's really good.
I was like, Mary, I need these things, please, have you got
them? She's like, yes, so you have to
buy them. So she gave me a really good row
mat, a bit inflated, a sleeping bag that went really small as
well, just because it had to fit in the kit bag.
So I know it's perfect. I was nice and toasty the whole
time. It wasn't too hot, wasn't apart
from the day when my calves are radiating heat.
I think I was just right, whereas a lot of people had
complained they were really cold.
Seeing camp at night as well. How?
Like the days were really really hot.
Did it ever get really, really cold at night?
Well, I would usually ask him that I am a cold person.
I would put yeah like trackies on.
I would then have like my hoodie and then often I would go put my
jacket on as well. Some people are wearing hats
because it did get cold in the evenings.
So you said there. Spoiler alert, final day, Day 4.
Yeah, day 4, the day it all went wrong.
Day four, day 4 was actually going really well.
I like I felt fantastic. It was like day three when I got
up and started in the morning. I've been feeling really quite
sick and just not I think I just it was already occurred just a
bit tired, but day four got felt amazing.
I didn't leave until like 7:20, so I thought, right, it's a
shorter day, I'm not going to go out, You know, I don't need to
go out as early. It's 30.
It was 34 K, only 1 1/2 thousand meters elevations.
I'm like right, it should take me about 6 hours, so let's not
bother with 7:00. I think it went extended to like
7:30. So I was like feeling absolutely
amazing so. Before you, before you go on and
spoil the story or tell us the story, how how were you feeling?
Amazing. What were you doing to recover
each day I. Don't actually know what
happened in day 4, but well, what as I said, usually come in,
I get the camp admin done. I would get my food, I just rest
up, do a bit of stretching, just taking a bit easier.
I think we bit stretched and did definitely did help with it.
But just generally I actually felt quite good.
I don't know, it was just a bit weird.
I was like, actually I feel like I can run, shouldn't be able to
run, you know, at that point, probably 160 KN or something
like that. But I did.
I felt fine. So it was just like another day
to go out plod along. It started off along the roads
where the Midget, that was a Midget morning.
It was you put the sun tan lotion on and then you were
black. So it was yeah, the along the
road and then started going up the hill.
Felt amazing going up there and then Yep, down down to a bit
that it's only afterwards I actually realized I'd actually
been there before. So you did about must have been
about 14K something like that to checkpoints.
And that's the first cut off part.
So I never realized that when I did a Kelp Man solo triathlon, I
actually ran down the hill to that car park and down the road.
So it's only afterwards I thought I've done this.
But before going up there again, looking behind, taking pictures,
videos, everything like that felt amazing.
And then a bit 18K. I'm like, I've got a wee bit of
my pain in my shin, but I was like, it's probably just because
I'm going up, still going up. This is the second hill that
we've got to go up, really wear 22 climbs.
And then you come to some amazing like watery thing at the
top. Again, non-technical term for
that. They look nice.
And I was like, right, it's a wee bit sore, but should ease
off. It's probably just up hills.
So once you go to the top, hopefully start getting a bit
flat and it'll ease off. But it didn't.
So I got up there kind of hobbling along.
Come on, we've got a nice downhill.
But let's just say it was not a nice downhill.
There was absolutely no path, no track, no nothing, rocky,
everything. It was the gnarliest thing
possible for a good, I'd probably say 4 or 5K of just
you've just got to try and make a path across whatever you can
following the GPX line. But the leg was just getting
sorer and sorer that anytime try to put the weight on it.
I was using poles and I was basically just becoming reliant
on the poles and I can't run. So I knew at this point looking
around, the only there's two options.
One was helicopter because it's only been able to get anyone off
from up there. And the second we just have to
keep walking. So I just kind of head down,
kept plodding. They head down with a few tears,
kept plodding. Few people that know what came
past and they're like how you doing?
Why am I running next year? You should not be here.
Quite a lot of people were saying this.
I should not be overtaking you. Yeah, few, quite a few hugs.
And then they just kind of, they keep going.
I got to the final little uphill before the downhill.
And I'd actually tried to phone Reese HQ because I was like, I
want someone to come and actually, can someone just come
and walk down with me because I'm this is just so sore.
But of course, there's no signal.
I can't get through to anyone but this lovely runner.
Well, she was actually doing the explorer.
She she caught me up and she's like, I'll just walk with you.
So she's like, I'm not in a hurry.
I don't have a time. So the two of us just plodded
away very slowly down this hill and it was a it was a long, you
could see camp a long way away. And it was an amazing downhill.
The downhill or I was I wanted to run that because that was
just like a proper all the way down.
Just didn't happen and I just had to very slowly hobble my way
all the way back into camp and I was just basically taking
straight into an ethical temp to look at it to work out what I'd
actually done to my leg because I really couldn't wait.
Bear on it. It was just really, really sore.
So they were like, that's not good.
What I want you to do is go and get cold on it.
Need to get ice on it or something.
So get yourself changed, get ready and get down to the river
because that's the only place where there was anything.
So one of the marshals came with me because I'm like, how do you
expect me to get down to a riverbank?
I can't hardly walk. So he kind of with me to help me
kind of down the banking. But and then the basically I
just stand in the middle of the river for about 20 minutes and
there's fish coming around. Remember those like pedicure
things used to get in the supermarkets with all the fish.
It's like that they were all coming and eating my feet.
It was quite annoying about like pocketing, but I've got a free
pedicure like fishy one said that then it was a very hobble
all the way back. I couldn't put my foot flat.
I had to quit literally just bow on my left one on my toe and
kind of hobble my way back up. And then I was basically told go
back to the medics at 7:00 because Morag's on and she's
knows lots about this. So I couldn't even put my socks
on. I had to put my socks on because
I couldn't bend my feet, like up or down.
I couldn't just couldn't bend that.
So I'm back. It's on Warrag and they were
going it. They thought it was some
technical words in this as well. I wrote this one down.
Well, I had to get them to write it down.
For me. It was a potential tibial bone
stress reaction, which they could lead to a stress fracture.
They couldn't quite work it because it was so specific on
the bone. They weren't sure.
But at that point like it's not looking good for you.
So basically they're like, you can come, but like you're not
allowed to leave tomorrow on the you're not allowed to go out of
camp without seeing us first. You're not just not allowed to
race until you see the medics and get sign off.
But at that point I think she was just like, you're not going
to be able to. And I was like, right, OK, so
yeah, let's just say it was she's very good at giving
cuddles and hugs. At that point when I was like,
right, that's it. We'd wore that scheme over.
I could have gone down to the Explorer.
So for those who don't know, the Explorer is basically half days.
So what they'll do is they'll work out where you can either
start, start at the beginning and run to a point where we'll
pick you up, or they'll drop you off at that point and then you
can run to the end. So there's like 2 distances you
can do falsely. Usually they seem to go on new
day trips and get a nice cup of tea somewhere.
They find a Cafe which will look quite good.
And I was like, right, Explorer the next day is 10K.
Maybe I could do that if I opted for the short one, but I was
like, well, day 6 is 35 K. I'm like, I can't do that.
There's no point. I just can't.
So there's no point going to the explorer to try and put myself
through more pain. So it's different.
If it was day 7 and it was, I only had day 8 to go, I probably
could have hobbled somehow dragged myself to that finish
line, but it was like, there's no way I can do it.
Only this is just the back of day 4.
And that's when they, as I said, they could have made the
decision of you cannot run. So it was basically game over at
that point. So always dropped out in the
second position as I pulled out at that point.
So I was like, yeah, that's it came over.
Yeah, it wasn't the best. Well, they say not all heroes
wear capes. Do you remember the name of the
the mystery runner that helped you down I.
Think her name was Heather. Yeah, she was lovely.
I've spoken to her before and she just, yeah, just chatted to
me all the way down, Kept me going, kept me spirits up.
Well done. Yes.
I was like, on you gorgeous. Like, no.
And she's like, no, no, no. This is really bad.
I have just sent a text message in and Nikki's going to laugh at
this. And I've watched Rick do the
Glenn Rosa horseshoe race. And Aaron, I was on the waiting
list. It's a few weeks time.
I've just had the invitation to enter that.
I better speak to the physio first.
Yeah, you bet. No, but Heather was absolutely.
Yeah, she was lovely. She kept me going.
I see everyone in camp. They were amazing.
I remember having the phone, phone home and just, I think I
just don't actually think I even made sense to husbands otherwise
than I think all I just said was game over.
That's why I think I said to a few folks like, that's a game
over. And then, yeah, lots of people
gave them hugs and they're like just seeing me hobbling around
in campus. Really.
Yeah, they were lovely. And then that was that.
They're like, well. Basically, they send you home.
Yeah, I was at this end. I don't know about the rest of
the group. As I said in the introduction,
you're on the Epic Trails group and I'm in the WhatsApp chat for
that and you message does. And it was like from first to
that it was kind of for me it was quite disbelief.
It was like what's happened and obviously you explained
everything as you've not in as much detail as you've just done
there, which thank you for sharing.
At what state? Like you said, you shared quite
a few tears as you were coming down.
Was that down to the pain or was that was it mentally because you
knew you were coming 1st and then like can you remember?
It did. It wasn't due to the placings
because I like I didn't expect to be first and so much can
happen in that race. It was purely down to, I think
the frustration of this cannot be happening again.
Right. I think that was it because I've
been through so many like things that have gone wrong, like when
I'm not going to be discussing this, but like when I had my
accident and both my wrists got broken, I'm like, I can't be
doing this again. I can't face going through all
of the treatments that I had to fix everything.
I think it was just everything like that going.
What does this actually mean? I think that was more than I
then like, like, yeah, this is fine.
This has happened but I'm like it's more going not an injury.
I can't cope with an injury, you know, the rest took so long to
fix and they're never going to be right.
I just it was more that side than anything else and it was
actually bloody sore at the same time.
Where the fear of the potential recovery rehab that you're going
to have ahead of you, that's like, right, OK, the race is
happening, but how is this going to affect the immediate future?
It was that more than anything else.
I'm like, a race is a race. You can come, they can go.
But I'm like, if I have to go back to the times when, for
those that don't know, I got wiped off my bike a few years
ago by a car and got bilateral wrist fractures.
I've had ended up by the end of that week with both wrists being
operated on. I've had three operations on my
left wrist. It's never going to be the same.
So just like that, having to go through all of that and then
going, it's not as bad as that, but going, if this is say like a
stress fracture, what does that mean?
That's going to be 12 weeks. I can't run.
What can I do? What's the impact of everything
I do? And I just thought of having to
go through that. I think that was probably more
where the tears were coming from.
Yeah. And how were your camp mates
when they realized you were injured?
Because you're 4 days and you've formed all these relationships
and friendships with people. How how was everyone?
Was that more emotional telling them as well?
Yeah, I met hogs I got from the NSA and then they were more just
gutted that, you know, you got to know the people and then
they're like Emma was like, no, you've left, why are you
leaving? And a few people like you've
left too soon. I didn't even get it's a good
chat. So it was it was those sort of
things where I didn't really get to speak to as many people.
I think a lot was like, we just saw you see you go.
But they were all lovely. Everyone was lovely in camp.
Thank you. See me hoping, not looking very
happy. What what happened to your
location? Do you get shipped back to the
start? Does somebody come and get you?
Do you get put up day by day or what happens?
No, so basically they're like right, see you later.
Not not quite like that. I do have to say Shane was
lovely. Shane runs a rear events because
he came that that night before I left and had a good long chat
with me. I think they all said, you know,
you the the the right decision that's been made.
I'm like I know it is. It's just gutting.
So what they did was basically there's a train coming at seven
O 2 at Altna Wachuma, call it. I should know this.
I work in the railway. It's a lovely little station in
the Scottish Highlands. So basically you're putting on
the train. So I have a train book for a
couple of days for obviously for the Monday, not the day bizarre,
but Thursday. So I think that was the
Thursday. So what I did was quickly get
online, got my train ticket booked.
Now I've never used passenger assist in my life for the
railway. The trains never had to, but I
was actually amazed. And again, welcome to the
railway. You, you know of these things
you know, people use them. You also you're like maybe don't
work as well as you do. But I, I say it was amazing.
I went online to go. How do I book this?
Because the bag you've, you're basically dropped off with your
big 20K bag. I think it'll be different.
If it was actually like broken, broken in pieces, that would be
different. So I was like, I'm going to drop
to the station at seven or two. Went online.
It must spend 1:00 in the morning.
I saw you can't really you book part.
You can book it online or you can phone up, but they don't
action it until 7:00 AM because obviously they're shut from like
6:50. So I was like, well, I'm
probably not going to get any assistance in the first day and
that's all cool. So I got the train from Altna,
something to where'd I go to Inverness?
Yes, Inverness. And then I had got the train
from Inverness to Sterling. Then I changed to Sterling and
went to Croy because it was easier for me to do that and get
picked up there than I thought of going to Queen St. and then
having to go from high level to low levels and trains out.
I did it that way. So I had three trains to get and
I put all of the details in, even including ended up getting
one earlier. I was obviously shocked.
The guy got off the train at seven O 2 right with your hands.
He was ready for me. So he was absolutely amazing.
Got my bag on, sat me down really good chat with him.
When I got to Inverness, they he was like the other guy was
ready. They told him which carriage I
was in. So he got me out, got my bag and
I was like well, wait 10 minutes to possibly get the next train
down the road. So he got me through, got me
through the queue, got me right into carriage.
I was like, I'm on a train that's seven hour early.
I was like, don't worry, I'll get them told.
So he then told the next slot. So I got to Sterling, another
nice chap, a good long chat with him.
He was lovely again, brilliant member of staff, got me over,
got me sorted, had about 15 minutes to wait.
So he then came back before the train got me on that one.
And then just just before I got into Croy, the tick examiners
came through the conductors and then they're like, think it all
about you. I was like, great.
So this story, somebody traveled through the train of why I need
help again, they got me off and then me and the staff at Croy
helped get my bag to the car as well.
So I do have to say the staff from Scotland were absolutely
fantastic, helping me all the way back down with my bag and
get me on off the trains. So yeah, that was how I got
home, back home by about 1:30. That's a great advert for
ScotRail then. Was it ScotRail that had the
passenger assist? Yeah, what you'll do, the
passenger assist, and I'm saying I've never used it.
And it was really, it worked. Worked absolutely perfectly for
me. Going through all these
different trains and getting me shifted and being so last
minute, I actually worked really well.
So you get home and what happens there?
Are you straight to the doctor or?
Well, I thought I better have a shower first.
So they didn't really want the stinking shower I'm.
Sure they smelt worse. So.
The the train guys were probably wanting you in and out as
quickly as possible because of the snail.
Yeah and I had my shoe off because my to put my foot up and
I'm like I'm not I'm not allowed shoes in the seat.
So some shoes off. No one sat next to me was great
that seat to myself and the girl come up and down with a trolley
twice. So I got 2 cups of tea.
So I was pretty happy, yeah. I got my shower, got food, and
then I went down to the royal. So I got X-rayed because
obviously we're thinking, anticipating possible stress
fracture. It was X-rayed.
As you know, with stress fractures, it can be very hard
to tell on an X-ray whether or not it is one or not.
There was a possibility it might, but we didn't know.
So then they made the request for an MRI scan.
The good thing was they got a cancellation.
So that was a Thursday and I got Saturday morning cancellation
for an MRI scan. So up to stop help for that one.
And feedback I've had, still waiting for the final, final
report to come through is that doesn't look like a stress
fracture, which I was like, thank goodness for that.
Been to the physio and everything like that.
And so we're thinking it is, I could say basically my tibia
anterior is angry. It's all around the tibia, the,
the tendon and there's lots of fluid in it and alter signals to
the muscle. So basically the tendons and the
muscles aren't very happy with me.
If you touch my leg front my leg, it ain't happy with me
either. And it was just like, do not
touch it. So yeah, been to the physio and
it's taped up and we're going actually possibly we can get
back to running very soon. See with that though, like is
that just really, really bad luck that that's happened?
Because you do do a lot of stretching and strength and
conditioning, you know, you're really on it with things like
that. So it's not, I don't think it
would be anything you could have done like more that way.
No, we couldn't work it out 'cause we're like when we've
done the distance during I do the elevation, I'd understand.
I love the gym. I'm always, always in the gym
'cause I do love lifting big heavy things.
It might be me, but I can lift big things and then I do my
stretching and I'm stretching and doing yoga probably 4 times
a week. Now.
I say yoga. I have to say it's about 1520
minute YouTube video that I do, friend.
I did it a couple of years ago. We got on the challenge in
January, yoga every day and we kept it up.
Yoga with Mark, he's really good.
He does the Glasgow Try club and then I find another one now that
I'm also following and just every day or every second day
I'll just do a wee 20 minute yoga and for the TV in the
evening. I'm still totally inflexible,
but I think it's definitely paying off with the I see paying
off with the injuries. I've not really had any until
this, but it's I say definitely I'm a lot better than I would
have been. So they think it's possibly with
the ups and then the downs, but more the tardine because the
ground was so dry. So you're not even get any given
the ground because everything was hard.
And then because it was so this was rocky, uneven, there was
nothing. Their legs were really having to
work a lot more just because of the terrain that was just so
rough that possibly that could have done it.
And just with the UPS and the downs, don't know, but that's
the only thing we're thinking it could have been.
But I think it is just luck or unluckiness that caused it.
And now it's just that I say just, but it is the gradual
build back up now. Yeah, that's it.
So it's like today I've been on my feet quite a bit because I
see I was doing the trail race, but I started off just not doing
anything. Then I started off swimming, but
just with a pool voice. I wasn't even using it.
I think the cold water actually pool helped.
Then onto my turbo and then I went out on the bike yesterday.
But again, I'm keeping the elevation down as much as I can
just so I'm not having to work it too much, but just keeping
the legs turning. The aim is hopefully I'll have
the final report back from the MRI early this week and then I
can do the guided run on Thursday.
So it's 6K very easy. So we'll go, we'll test that,
see how it feels and that'll give me a bit of an indication
with how it's doing. Because one thing is I'm like, I
don't want to make it worse. I'm like I'm prefer to be able
to run just maybe not as much then being absolutely broken for
a long time. Since you're not 100% sure of
what caused it, what are you going to do to stop it happening
again? Maybe don't run 200 kilometres
in four days. I think maybe that's just it
might just have been that I might have actual just so much
that I've done. Whereas it seems that the multi
day events do work. I'm quite good at them.
Maybe not past four days. Let's practice that one.
So I think it's just sticking just now to back down to kind of
more the one day events and ultras and then slowly look to
go right for next time. What am I going to do?
I don't know what I can do, but maybe just working with a
physiological what, what else could we possibly do?
Or more if I start to feel it coming on, what can I do?
I'll say with this, it just started at 18K and that was it.
I didn't get any warning that it was coming.
It was like the night before. I'm like, Oh, I've got me
niggles. There's nothing.
That was just it. So does that answer the question
I haven't asked yet? Are are you going to do it
again? I don't know.
I was very much, I am not doing that again.
I am not doing that again. Why would I do that again?
I just want to do the lighthouse.
I might just go and run to the lighthouse from that wee beach,
but then I like the that way. It's like everything.
You forget that horribleness of those four days and then nephews
have opened again. I know I've not signed up but
then I'm like thought of running those four days and doing that
1st 200 kilometres again is a bit off good.
Do you want to go up and? I can go.
Would you go up and do just the the last bit that you haven't
done? I'd be tempted to work out how,
how it could be done because it's, I think it would have to
be done as in like self supported.
It's not that you can really have, it's only the West Tail on
way where you can do bits and you've got baggage transfer guys
that'll move your bags nicely to places.
I think it would be very much going.
How do we run each day? Carrying your own stuff?
You get a. Train up to out in the brag I
think is the session that you got and then just do the whole
lot at once. You don't need to stop them,
right? I keep going.
I suppose I could do it as a spine warm up and I'm not doing
that either, but people said so I just just do this, no.
So that was thank you for sharing all that, because that
was it was really, really interesting and it's really good
to have someone that's on that's done, you know, such a big
event, even the four days is massive.
Yeah, it was a big event. And I'd say to people that are
thinking about it, the good thing is there is the Challenger
or sorry, the explorer option, so you can drop.
Well, there's the Challenger. So they do actually keep half
100. So that's 100 miles and you can
do the first three days and stop.
Just stopped after day three and I got a medal.
Don't even get a medal. I'll finish in day four or
something. What a medal.
So that's a really good one. If you want to get into multi
days, actually I'd say go try the first three days.
Really, really good. You get to experience the camp
life, do those parts. Then there, as I say, is the
explorer and it's up to you how you want to do that.
You do the full 8 days, but you it's up to you.
You might want to do the full day one day, about half a day
the next day. It's a good way you can mix and
match and just enjoy it and see how you're feeling.
So that's another good way to try it as well.
All right, moving on to something else or maybe that is
Kate Rath is your answer. What's the the biggest
achievement that you've had in your in your sporting, not just
running career? Oh, sporting, That's slightly
harder. You can start with running.
Oh no, Kate Rath is not because that's ADNF.
I think probably just does it have to be an event?
No. No.
Just what?
What? You're most proud of.
I think it's actually epic trails.
So for me, I think it was all the epic trails.
I I started doing guided trail runs before COVID.
So I did them for a company called Trail Fest and I always
did the Mogai ones. So I just turned up.
I was given a list of people who were coming and I took them for
a nice B guided run. Yeah, it was great.
COVID came and it became just, this was a natural time for
Trail Fest to finish. You made the decision, but I was
then getting messages from people going, are you still
going to do the runs? Are you doing the runs?
What's happening with the runs? Are you still doing them?
And I was like, oh, I'm still here.
It's not like I've gone anywhere.
I still have a little guy. I can still run the runs, right?
I suppose I'd better look at this.
So I was like, right, OK, I can do this myself.
Don't know how I'll work out that logistics later.
And I'm not the techie person. But at the same time, I was
like, right, People are asking me for running routes with COVID
because everyone can only go out locally.
So I spend a lot of my time. I loved COVID.
Well, not COVID itself, but I love the time you got to explore
your local hills. I've found so many trails.
I had so much fun up the Kilpatricks and the currencies
exploring and I just started posting on Facebook.
All of my trips have that where I've been pictures of them, the
roots, just trying to say to people, look, if you're stuck,
just go out and do something. Here's local places you can go
and explore. And then when we're allowed to
start socializing and going out together, I was like, right,
I'll put guided runs on. I did the first year for free,
so everyone just turned up and I'll just take people out just
to keep your back out. Running in a group, showing them
more things roundabout and then eventually kind of feels like
right now, better start charging here actually for this.
Not a huge amount, it's a full £3.50 that they pay and
everything goes back to charity. So every little penny I make
goes, well I don't make it, it's not-for-profit.
We go, it goes back out to something that's kind of
worthwhile or something that like the runners have got
experience in. So a lot have gone to mountain
rescue. We raise money and we install
the defibrillator at Saint Mocha, things like that that we
do. And then the group sort of came
together so most people can come.
So like so every Thursday I'll do first of the months of 6K,
then it basically goes 8K10K. Just varies until we get to the
end of the month. But the group came together and
we've got something up in there from the start.
And over time they've progressed from going you're a crazy Nutter
to me from the things I do to start doing half marathons to
marathons. And then some of them are doing
ultra marathons and the West Island way and things like that.
Some, I think it's more I'm just proud of actually bringing the
group together of people who just want to run trails and
maybe don't have that connection.
And these people would never have come together.
Their paths wouldn't naturally cross through like work or
anything like that or friendships.
And they're a great bunch. You know, they have such a
laugh. They met trips that they do
themselves without me. There are way ranging things.
I'm like, that's what I wanted. I wanted to create a community
where they can go and do all these things together themselves
and give them the confidence to do it, so I think that's
probably what I'm most proud of. You also had a lot of people
doing one of the events yesterday, didn't you?
The what? What 1 was that that they were
doing? So it's the ones that I think
it's outside your events run. So yeah, we've got a couple of
the go and volunteer at it. Some of them did the it's up and
down. So that's up 1 Monroe and back
down. So for someone that was the
longest they'd ever run and for one of them was actually also
the first Monroe that they ran up and down.
Well, no, they didn't think they walked the usual make sure you
walk up and eat at the same time.
So they're fantastic. And then a couple of them went
on and did the full, this double Monroe I think is about 60 K
couple of them went and did that one as well as the longest runs
they've done. So yeah, it's amazing.
How would somebody find out more about Epic Trails?
Easy thing if you're wanting to find out what events are on is
actually just go on to entry central and just put in epic
trails. One word and what I do is it
gets towards the end of a month. I'll put next month's on and I
just put them all up there so you can see what's on and just
sign up there or they can find me on Instagram or Facebook
because the other people want to drop me a message.
And there's also I do have a website as well where it's
actually quite good. It's where you can find lots of
like if you want to know about races, like maybe ones I've done
or routes I've done, I'll do write ups as well.
Or this is actually what it was like from my perspective or get
any routes as well. And that's basically just
www.epictrailsrunning.co.uk. And again that the the links as
well to things and. There's a lot of great routes on
that. Yeah, for roots that I do that
seem to be quite nice, I'll put them up.
Sometimes I've got descriptions. Sometimes you might find I've
gone and run a race where really the description is I ran up a
hill, couldn't see anything. I've run back down.
I'd recommend it, but here's some pictures if I really don't
have a clue what I want. But I'll, I'll try kind of get,
I say, honest feedback as well about roots and races, about
what I actually thought of them. So the next question that we've
got is why do you run? It's my escape.
I think it's always been like that.
I remember back at uni they would see me frustrated and
they're like, you need to just go out, just get out there.
And I think it's that release. It's just I need to do
something. If it isn't like running, then
as I say, I would go on the bike or I used to always go please
hit a bully. And so all it's my, it is, it's
my me time, it's my release. It's just gives me time to
think. It must have an awful lot to
think about because since I do like running for hours and hours
and hours. But it's a great, you know, Ed,
especially if I've had a bad morning at work or something,
you know, just lunchtime, just get out and just run, come back
in. And I'm much, I'm much happier
person. Yeah, I remember.
What you think about? Sometimes not.
I've got a clue. Well, I've tried to put the
world to rights. That's always try to sort that
out. But I can go and put a podcast
on to listen to it and I've had it on plane the whole time, but
I've not actually listened to it because I've been thinking
whatever randomness in my head or they'll be thinking about
something or joining in with a podcast, talking to a sheep,
talking to the mods, screaming at it could be anything.
But it's, I think it's just, it's my me time to get out.
And divergent, not on the question list.
You said you talked to the sheep.
Tell us about Frank. Won't got Frank Heen anymore,
Frankie, Right. All my runners know I've got a
thing. Every time I find a sheepskull,
I'm usually pick it up and I'll do a bit of I think it's a ham.
OK, whichever one it was. I'm not Shakespeare and do that.
They're always like laughing at me for these sheepskulls.
And I've always said I wanted to find a sheepskull with proper
like horns, proper horns. And one day I was out running
with Westies. I'm running up, up the
currencies, coming down to Dunfoi and there was a good
sheep. I feel really sorry for the
sheep. It was unfortunate it had
passed. It passed a long time ago, but
it had a good set of horns on it.
Not saying I've got to remember where the sheep is.
I need to come back for this, for these sheep horns.
So I've luckily I've got another friend.
Oh no, it's the same one. It's Mary.
Mary who likes to give me camping stuff.
Who knows the silly things that I got to Mary.
How about are we run on a Friday night up to bring back a sheep's
skull with the big horns on it? So yeah, we did actually one
Friday night. So can we run back up all the
way up to where we found Frank? So we got Frank, we put Frank
and Frank is just the head. That's not 2 sheep.
I did not bring that home, just the head.
Reverend was Nikki and Mike have seen the size of Frank.
He is a good he must be, he is big.
So put him in a bin bag. And then I had to run back along
the pipe track to the car with Frank and I'm like the shoulder
over this shoulder like this. I'm like I've got in this bag
Mary has nicely tidied out, cleaned Frank up for me.
I've now gotten ready to hang because and husband have said he
is not allowed in this house anywhere office.
The dog loves him and just wants to lick his horns every time he
appears out. So that is Frank the sheep.
So there is a Ronin's Java called I think the pipe track
and Frank I have and he has called Frank.
I think what we'll need to do is we'll need to get a picture of
you holding Frank, and we can stick it onto the Instagram post
that we'll put on for the podcast for your episodes.
I think so. Oh, I'm going to look at Frank
out now, aren't I? Yes.
Yeah. For anyone that can see online,
I'm not sure that's Frank hanging up.
Yeah, this is only for the YouTube viewers.
For those online, it's just a picture of Frank that I don't.
I'm hanging up. Frank looks good.
I don't think that gives us justice because.
No it doesn't. We we saw the picture and you
take up the whole screen. Yeah.
You definitely need a picture of holding them 100.
Percent to get us get. Because I was surprised at the
size of it tonight when you brought out-of-the-box.
OK, I'll get Frank later. I'll get a, I'll get a selfie.
Definitely. So.
In the immediate future, you're doing your recovery, things like
that. Have you got any apart aside
from Epic Trails that you run weekly, Have you got anything
else coming up? Projects, events, anything in
the new. You mean the one I've not just
said through to asking me if I wanted to enter or not?
I've got we've got Tyree in September.
So last time I did Tyree Ultra was the year where it got the
full months rain that day, but the campsite got flooded out.
I've never gone through so much waterproof things.
It was very wet. But who did The Epic Trails crew
have decided to also go up? So they've got a cottage.
So basically we're going up for a party.
So it's going to be a run and a really good, I think weekend
really more than anything. So that's the main one.
I didn't on purpose. I didn't book anything in for
after Cape Pratt because I didn't know how I was going to
be. There are a lot of hill races
coming up, so I'm just going to the good thing with hill races
does you don't have to enter them once and once and once in
advance. A lot of them are you can sign
up on the night or the week before I'll be able to get a
place. So it's really just going to be
see how it goes and then just see what I'm going to enter that
way. So no, nothing big.
Yeah, I'm saying yeah, tidy September.
So plenty of time to recover from that and they just take my
time and see what what takes my fancy really.
And you jokingly mentioned Spain.
We don't actually know if that actually was a joke.
Is 1 is that one? Is that one on the?
Bucket list. Or.
Someone also mentioned Northern traverse to me and then I looked
at that. I went no, no, no, no, no, no,
but there is 100, so 100K in the northern.
The first part is it late? Yeah.
So I was like that looks OK, these ones doing like just
continuing without sleeping. No, no, no, no, no, no, not
happening on the West high long way.
When I did that, I actually did the sleeping kind of walk
leaving because I was yeah, I just wasn't worth it.
So no, I do need my sleep. So those very long ones are
definitely are out the game. But yeah, maybe more.
I might look at other multi days.
So is there anybody that you would other than Frank of
course, that you would love to run with?
I think someone I would have loved to have run with is John
Kinison. So John, I remember listening to
John, the early years of me getting into trail running when
he did run to the hills, watching his Youtubes and John's
such a big inspiration to those in the trail running community
and especially those running about the West Hernong Way.
And I think it's John. You still play such a big like
part in everything that we do. You know, every time you run
over John's bridge in the way so long way, he's just he's such an
amazing guy. I think he's one of those people
that has gone far too soon, but I would love to have run with
John. I had the pleasure many times.
So you missed out, I'm afraid to say.
Yes, yeah, that's the one person.
Maybe one day eventually, but not just now.
So usually the final question that we ask is what's your plans
for the rest of the year? But you've actually covered it.
So we've got tidy coming up, which will be really, really
good. That sounds like a it's going to
be a great weekend for you. Yeah, if it's not the running,
the just having the group of us all together.
Just if you haven't, if people haven't done tidy, it's really
good. There's a Kaylee afterwards as
well. Although last time I did it I
didn't do much dancing and I had to cycle back to the campsite.
Aren't they? Don't put head torch in your
head when try to cycle a bike because every time you look the
light moves off the road. What's happening?
But yeah, it's just going to be a good a good weekend with added
running and friends and things. So that yeah, that's the main
one. Well, I think that draws us to a
close. It's all from me unless Nikki's
got anything. Nope.
I've no well just to say thank you Nikki for being Nikki, thank
you other Nikki for being Nicola Dawson on a Sunday and it's
goodbye for me. Thanks for coming on.
Well, thanks for having me.