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Good evening and welcome to 
another episode of Run Till 

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You're Done. 
For this episode we are joined 

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by an ultra runner not just 
known for chasing his own 

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limits, but for helping others 
push past theirs. 

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He's very well known for 
assisting on many fastest known 

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time. 
He's a coach and has a massive 

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passion for the hills. 
Welcome to the show, Howard 

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Drake up. 
Hey, guys, You all right? 

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Welcome, Howard. 
Thanks for coming on. 

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Yeah, no good. 
Good to be here. 

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So the first question that we 
usually ask all of our guests as

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how did you first get into 
running? 

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First of all, I used it as like 
I was obese from all the way 

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through high school. 
So I first use it as a bit of a 

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way to lose some weight. 
Really. 

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That would have been about about
1617. 

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And so I dabbled in a bit of 
jogging just just to shift a 

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couple of pounds. 
So I kind of got into running 

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them, but it was very on and 
off. 

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And then aged around 2930, I 
used it for mental health 

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issues. 
I had a big nervous breakdown 

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and yeah, I just started running
a hell of a lot more during that

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period and it really kind of 
like sorted me out. 

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And then running competitively, 
I would have got into that 

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around about 34. 
So simple answer would have been

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around about 16-17. 
And then as the years went by, I

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started taking it a little bit 
more seriously. 

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What? 
What kind of weight are we 

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talking about? 
Oh, I was 19 stone. 

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Seriously big. 
Yeah, I was a big a big lad. 

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And for those watching the 
video, you're obviously not 19 

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stone now. 
Oh. 

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I so around about over the 
course of 12 months, I dropped 

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from 19 stone down to around 
about 13. 

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And then over the years I've 
crept up to maybe about 15 stone

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again. 
But I used to lift heavy weights

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and I used to be into the gym. 
And then as I got into the 

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running a little bit more, I 
kind of backed off of the 

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weights and obviously because 
the exercise I had just wasn't 

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good for that really. 
So then I trimmed down. 

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I'm probably around about 
working kilograms now. 

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So I'm still quite heavy for a 
runner. 

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I'm anywhere between 86 on a 
white day to around about 90 

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kilos generally when I'm not 
trying to be that little bit 

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lighter if I've got a 
competition coming up, but I can

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be anywhere between 86 kilos and
93. 

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I come back from the cruise at 
Christmas and I'd probably end 

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up to 93. 
So yeah, I don't know what that 

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is in stones, but I used to work
in stones when I was younger, so

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I knew I was 19 stone, but I 
don't know what that is in 

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kilograms. 
But yeah, now I work in kilos, 

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so. 
Everybody works in kilos now. 

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Yeah, thank you for. 
Sharing about saying that you 

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had a nervous breakdown. 
My question following on from 

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that is when you first started 
the running and you were saying 

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about being obese, did you find 
when you ran that helped with 

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your mental health at that 
point? 

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And is that what helped you 
through when you started getting

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into it a bit more seriously? 
It's a funny one. 

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I would say when I when I was 
obese, I got into, I didn't 

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really, even though I was 
unhappy with how I looked and 

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stuff, I wouldn't say I had any,
no mental health issues then. 

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So I mainly ran just for one 
sole reason. 

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That was just because I was 
looking at the scales and seeing

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the weight coming off and it was
coming off fast. 

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So I did it for her. 
I didn't do it for why I do it 

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these days. 
It was more like a thing I had 

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to do then and I probably didn't
really enjoy it. 

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If I cast my mind back, it was 
just, I did it because it was, 

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it was. 
I didn't have to go to the gym 

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to do it and it and it was 
making the weight come off. 

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And I can't remember what the 
second part of the question was.

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It was just did you? 
I think what I was getting at 

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was like, why the running and 
why not the gym At first, you 

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know of all the the activities 
that you could do. 

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A lot of people do like or hate 
running, but they'll do like 

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dance classes or go to the gym 
and nowadays high rocks. 

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Yeah, I think because of where I
lived, it was a small village in

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the in the Pennines. 
We just had, where I used to 

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live on the back doorstep, we 
just used to have a little 

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nature reserve and I'd always 
been outdoors even as a kid. 

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I just love playing out in, you 
know, in the bushes and trees, 

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messing around. 
And and I think I just saw that 

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as the I was going to the gym as
well and I was doing cardio. 

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But yeah, maybe there was some 
sort of subconscious underlying,

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you know, therapy in that as 
well. 

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Maybe like I just said a minute 
ago that there wasn't anything. 

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Well, certainly no mental health
issues, but yeah, maybe I 

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subconsciously enjoyed it as 
well. 

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And it was just easier to do it.
I just stepped out of my door 

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and I was on some nice trails. 
So I think that's why I did it. 

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And both for weight loss and 
your mental health issues, did 

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you seek guidance in that? 
Did you get somebody's help or 

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did you think this is how I'm 
going to do it? 

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Yeah, I just did it myself. 
I didn't really. 

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I probably did it the wrong way.
If I could do it now, I would do

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it a bit more controlled. 
But I was just probably, well, I

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was, I really cut back on my, I 
starved myself a little bit too 

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much. 
The weight came off fast, but it

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was because I was probably doing
extreme things, not eating 

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enough really. 
But it, it got me to where I 

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wanted to get to. 
But yeah, I did it all myself. 

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And when you did first start, 
was it just around the village 

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on the roads, or did you go Gung
Ho St. into the hills? 

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Bit of both. 
Bit of the trails, bit on the 

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road as well. 
I didn't mind getting out on the

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pavements. 
I'd not really. 

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I didn't really know about trail
running properly at that point 

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and the places I could go to. 
So yeah, it was probably a 

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mixture of both, but the trails 
would have been super flat 

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manicure trail. 
Nothing like you know what I'm 

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into now. 
And speaking about the stuff, 

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stuff you're into now, obviously
that that what you just 

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described was the start of your 
journey, but what was the first 

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race that you did? 
The first race that I did, 

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believe it or not, was Dent Half
Marathon, which is like a road 

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race near Setba if you know what
dense is. 

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Have you heard of that one Dent 
1/2 marathon? 

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It's actually about 40 miles. 
I I joined a road running club. 

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Eventually it was part of their 
clubs championship races. 

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So I got on the coach and went 
to Dent. 

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So that was the first road race 
I ever did. 

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The first ultra would have been 
the old and way ultra that's not

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going anymore. 
That was a really nice route, 

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about 40 miles around. 
Have you ever been to Oldham? 

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I was born. 
You know where it is you are, 

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Yeah. 
I was born. 

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In Yeah, it's quite close. 
Dove Stones Reservoir is. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, all the edges up near 

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there, it was like a huge loop 
around my area there. 

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It was really good. 
So yeah, first race was a road 

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race and they also did a few 
park runs. 

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I know they're not really races,
but I I was treating them as 

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races. 
They're a race to yourself. 

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If you want to do that, just 
don't tell the organizers. 

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Yeah. 
I've said in the past if I have 

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a one one, it's definitely a 
race. 

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Yes, a park runs and then half 
first races. 

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What kind of time were you 
getting at Park Run and compare 

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that to now? 
Yeah, I was probably faster back

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then because a lot of my 
training would have been Rd. 

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based and speed. 
So and, and you know, to to the,

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you know, good standards, very 
average 5K time, about 20 

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minutes, 20 minutes, something I
think I got from my first park 

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run, 2024 yard or something like
that. 

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Yeah. 
Not very fast really, but yeah. 

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As you said, you're just racing 
against yourself, so it's as 

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fast as it needed to be at the 
time. 

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Yeah, and training wasn't really
training back then, you know, 

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like I would do it now if I 
wanted to get A5 KPB. 

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It was more just I was doing 
lots of volume, long slow miles 

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with, I don't know, some I 
weren't even doing intervals, 

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but I would do some, some some 
more like faster, steadier 

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running. 
But it was all just long plugs 

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really. 
So not not too bad. 

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An Oldham Ultra, How far the 
distance was that for your first

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ultra? 
It was around about 40 miles. 

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So it's it wasn't even a just, 
it's just an ultra. 

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That's quite a big distance, 
isn't it, for your first one? 

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It was a fair size one, yeah, 
and quite hilly as well. 

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I mean, not hilly to the Lake 
District standard, but they've 

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been around about a couple of 
1000 meters, I'm guessing. 

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So yeah, quite, quite a tough 
first ultra. 

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And it sounds as though that you
had quite a lot of build up 

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between when you first started 
your first race, your first 

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ultra. 
If you had to describe a moment 

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when you first realized that 
this is what you do now, and 

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that's you are a runner, when 
did that realization dawn on 

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you? 
I would say when I was going 

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through the mental health stuff,
when I started getting out, then

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it was then that I realized 
that, like, I'd really gotten 

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into it. 
I was just going out. 

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Everything was feeling good. 
I wanted to do a lot more of it.

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Yeah. 
I started venturing up into the 

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Lake District a little bit as 
well. 

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And then, yeah, I think it just 
took off from there, really. 

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And nowadays you're more 
concentrating on trail running, 

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as everybody should be. 
But do you still get out in the 

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roads? 
Do you still do any sort of Rd. 

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races or anything? 
I haven't been doing, but I've 

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been chatting to my coach Tim 
Pigger and he reckons I should 

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do it like a train for a 10K 
race for the next month or two. 

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You know, nothing crazy but just
do a little bit of, you know, 

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some faster, faster training 
and, and you know, get a new 10 

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KPB. 
So that's been discussed. 

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But other than that, no, I 
haven't done any races. 

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But training wise I don't mind. 
You know, if I need to get a run

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done and I'm in a rush, I don't 
mind putting my, you know, my 

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Rd. shoes on and doing, you 
know, run around Kendall. 

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What I have found is, and I try 
not to do it now is because 

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because I've been in the hills 
so much that when I do run 

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locally in the in the town, it, 
the fumes. 

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It absolutely stinks. 
I'm not used to it. 

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And where, where I've lived over
the last five or six years as 

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well, they've been little tiny 
villages. 

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Kendall's the busiest. 
I've had it in, in in a long 

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time. 
And I can't get over how 

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polluted the the air is when 
you're when you're jogging. 

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So I try to avoid it. 
I, I do do some flatter stuff, 

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but I love it on the canal, 
Lancaster Canal on the other 

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end, the candle is great. 
There's no styles, no gates. 

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It's flat and straight. 
You can do about 10 to 15 K on 

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it without no, no interruptions.
And you always see Josh Wade on 

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there as well. 
Back when I was a student, like 

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I went to uni in Aberdeen and I 
never noticed the pollution as 

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you said. 
But when I went home in this 

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countryside, it was then that 
you almost I almost felt like it

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was not missing the pollution. 
But it's like I can breathe. 

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What's going on? 
Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? 

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It really is like becoming a 
thing, isn't it? 

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Like it's more apparent these 
days. 

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You can really notice when 
you're in in these areas and 

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when you're not. 
Yes, see. 

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For me. 
I think that would be bizarre 

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because I'm Glasgow based so 
even like getting out so 

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temporary getting out into fresh
air. 

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Yeah, you'll almost feel strange
when you're in the clean air, 

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won't you? 
Exactly. 

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Have you ever done a road 
marathon? 

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Official one. 
Yeah, I've done a couple many 

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years ago. 
So the first marathon I would 

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have done was Manchester 
Marathon. 

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It was the ASICS back then. 
I think I read somewhere a 

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couple of years after they 
scrapped that one because the 

225
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,360
the distance was a little bit 
out. 

226
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,320
So maybe that doesn't count 
anymore. 

227
00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,440
I'm not sure. 
But that was my first marathon. 

228
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,080
I then did Liverpool Rock'n'roll
Marathon. 

229
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,880
That was a good one that I think
that would be my PB. 

230
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,600
And even then it's not that 
fast. 

231
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:36,000
I don't think 3 hours, 48 or 
something like that. 

232
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,360
I think if I was to go back and 
do a road marathon now, I could 

233
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,320
probably, if I trained for it 
properly. 

234
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:46,520
I'd like to hope to get around, 
I don't know, some 3-15, maybe 3

235
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,320
hours of push. 
But yeah, so I did that and then

236
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,040
I did. 
Sorry, I'm off on a tangent. 

237
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,560
Then Snowdonia, the Brooks 
Snowdonia marathon that was. 

238
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,040
That was great. 
I'm laughing because when you 

239
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,680
say the marathon time, it's not 
that fast. 

240
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,040
It was 3. 
And I'm like, no, no, no, no, 

241
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,560
no. 
Let's let's just stop right 

242
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,440
there. 
That's that's fast. 

243
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,160
Maybe that's offensive, isn't 
it? 

244
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:11,840
I didn't really. 
It's. 

245
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,520
Not offensive, it just blows my 
mind. 

246
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,640
Like like we said about the park
run is what you're you're racing

247
00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,280
against yourself is what you 
consider fast for yourself. 

248
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,480
So and I'm just going to say you
never have to apologize for good

249
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,920
often a tangent. 
We're here to talk about 

250
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:33,400
anything you want, so I. 
Shall do it again. 

251
00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,840
And aside from like your own 
running, you're really well 

252
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,440
known for showing up and helping
people on the FKTS. 

253
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:49,240
What draws you to being in that 
role for helping someone else 

254
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,200
shine on the hills? 
Yeah, it's quite exciting, 

255
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,920
rewarding. 
It's good fun, it's good 

256
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,160
training. 
Like, you know, these 

257
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,400
challenges, you're often out for
5-10 hours at a time. 

258
00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,040
You normally go in a little bit 
slower than normal with a big 

259
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,760
heavy pack on your back. 
But it's all good training and 

260
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,920
it's just really rewarding, you 
know, like to see them achieve 

261
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:20,880
something that they put so much 
hard work into. 

262
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,760
And then when they pull it off 
at the end, it's it's just nice 

263
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:25,920
to know that your health can't 
contribute to that. 

264
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,320
And you never know when you 
might need it back as well. 

265
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,880
So it's always nice to, it's 
always nice to be, you know, 

266
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,720
it's nice to be nice. 
It definitely is one of our 

267
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,000
future guests. 
Ross just did the spine at the 

268
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,760
weekend there and I've got a 
favorite to call for a race in a

269
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,160
few months time. 
So just warning you, Ross. 

270
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,920
And, and now you've announced it
on the podcast, He can't say no.

271
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:02,040
But yeah, when you're out 
helping these people, what do 

272
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:08,920
you look for when the sort of 
physical things that they're 

273
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,480
doing, how how do you approach 
that and helping them 

274
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,599
emotionally? 
Do you just really balance up 

275
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:23,319
for when somebody needs to suck 
it up and get on with it, or do 

276
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:24,280
they need a bit? 
Of a hug. 

277
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,880
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a tricky 
1. 

278
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,000
And I guess if, if you've ever 
been the person in the driving 

279
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,960
seat on these challenges, like 
you've been that person, it does

280
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,480
make it a little bit easier. 
You can almost relate to what 

281
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:40,960
they're going through and stuff 
like that. 

282
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:48,040
So for example, John Kelly, when
I helped him out on his Pennine 

283
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,960
Way record-breaking attempts, it
was a final leg over the 

284
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,200
Cheviots and he was literally on
the line. 

285
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,240
He was literally he had about 3 
or 4 minutes before he was going

286
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,200
to be, it was, it was not going 
to get it. 

287
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,160
So on that regardless of how he 
was feeling, we just had to give

288
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,600
him some tough love. 
It was like we just bullied him 

289
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,400
over the over the achievements 
like we there was no other 

290
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,280
alternative. 
So when you're when you're in 

291
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,160
that kind of a predicament, you 
need to give them the tough 

292
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:25,280
love. 
Yeah, it's quite a, it's quite a

293
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:30,240
like a, a big the question you 
asked, it can be given, I can 

294
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,080
give quite a few answers for it.
So like. 

295
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,480
Well, we won them all. 
Yeah, no, my mind's kind of like

296
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,320
gone a little bit blank. 
I do this all the time. 

297
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,560
Like you ask a question and I'm 
thinking, what was the initial 

298
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,640
question? 
So I was going to say like 

299
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,680
initially you can see when they 
are just from like how they are 

300
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:51,160
acting on the round. 
You know, if they're gone quiet,

301
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:53,200
you ask him if they're all 
right. 

302
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,920
Are you doing the OK, bud? 
Do you need anything that 

303
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,560
normally sparks a bit of 
conversation? 

304
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,040
If they're chatting away and the
chirpy, it's probably just a 

305
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,520
case of reminding them that they
need to keep eating and drinking

306
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,240
because that's what the buggers 
for not eating and drinking. 

307
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:13,960
Like if they can get away with 
it, they they don't want it, but

308
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,680
they need to because if they 
don't, they're going to bonk or 

309
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,480
they're going to stop moving and
they've just eaten for like the 

310
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,320
God past, God knows how many 
hours before you've got to them.

311
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,960
So they're maxed out. 
They don't want to eat, but they

312
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,480
need to, and that's quite a hard
job. 

313
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:34,360
So yeah, it it, you just got a 
look at how the signs that 

314
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:38,360
they're giving off and then just
be that person that's going to 

315
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,280
be fun for them and, and keep 
them going and be motivating and

316
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,000
encouraging and just get them to
the end. 

317
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,280
But yeah, it's just reading into
them really, and just just 

318
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,080
looking at what's going on and 
not getting into a bit of a 

319
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,240
Daydream yourself. 
And just keep your eye on the 

320
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,960
task that you're there for, 
which is to get them to the end 

321
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,440
and make sure I think you do a 
good job really are. 

322
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,600
There any FKTS that stand out 
for you as being support? 

323
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,800
Was there anybody on rounds that
you didn't think we're going to 

324
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,320
finish and they managed that? 
Like even like, not Even so much

325
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,000
FKTS, but even if you're 
assisting someone on their own 

326
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:16,200
and they managed to complete 
that, is there anything that 

327
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:29,160
stuck out for you? 
No, I don't think so. 

328
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,720
I think I think all the rounds 
have been on. 

329
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,600
Unfortunately it doesn't always 
end this way, but all the ones 

330
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,040
I've been on, they've always, 
they've always managed to be 

331
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,000
successful. 
I'm just trying to think if I'm 

332
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:53,110
wrong in saying that. 
There has been Andy Berry when I

333
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:57,430
helped him on his, he was going 
for the record on a Bob Graham 

334
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,640
quite a few years ago, the same 
year as when Kim Collision broke

335
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,000
it, the boss off at the same 
time. 

336
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:10,840
He got middle of leg 2 and he 
just wasn't having a good day. 

337
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,800
Like he said, his intent was to 
break the record and as soon as 

338
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,320
he realized that he wasn't going
to break the record, he he just 

339
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,640
literally said there's he could 
continue and he could do the 

340
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:21,920
full thing and he would have 
been fine. 

341
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,160
He would have got a good time, 
but I think he knew that he 

342
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,720
wasn't going to get the record. 
So that round didn't go well. 

343
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,520
I forgot the question again. 
I know you said you was asking 

344
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:32,880
me about is there any rounds 
that didn't? 

345
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,320
Is there any rounds that stick 
out in your mind that were 

346
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,080
really good for you when you 
supported someone? 

347
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:41,640
Yeah, sorry. 
So I've completely got the 

348
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,640
question on that. 
That's OK. 

349
00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,520
Yeah, John Kelly's was good. 
I mean, I've, I've already 

350
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:52,800
mentioned that one. 
That was good. 

351
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,120
They've all been good. 
Like John Kelly's was good 

352
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:57,840
because it was just like we was 
on that final leg and it was 

353
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:02,360
like on the line and he really 
dug deep and we got him in and 

354
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:06,240
he was like 15 minutes ahead in 
the end or something like that. 

355
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:10,920
So John Kelly's was really good.
I've helped Sabrina Virgie a few

356
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,640
times. 
Hers were great just in the 

357
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,760
sense that, you know, they were 
just big FKTS. 

358
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,680
You know, the Wayne Wrights 
rounds, they don't just go on 

359
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,520
for 24 to 48 hours. 
It's full. 

360
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,360
It's a full week of a job 
practically. 

361
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,160
And I think she's had quite a 
few goals now and I have helped 

362
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,040
out on more than one of them. 
I think I've helped out on 2 and

363
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,880
I can't, can't remember which 
one it was. 

364
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,640
It might have been the first 
one, but I literally helped 

365
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,280
nearly every day. 
So it was dead exciting, you 

366
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,080
know, just like every day. 
I just kind of wasn't even meant

367
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,680
to be on that leg and I'd go 
home, go to bed. 

368
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,600
He wake up in the morning and 
just be like, that's where the 

369
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:53,920
tracker is. 
I can probably do that little 

370
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,120
bit and then I go out again. 
So that that that was good fun 

371
00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:00,080
and it was good when she got to 
the end as well. 

372
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,440
It's just good when you see them
get to the end and and and 

373
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:09,200
they've finished. 
James Gibson helped James on his

374
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,080
double winter Bob Graham couple 
of weeks ago. 

375
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,800
I'm probably going to say that 
was up there with John Kelly's 

376
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,480
as well. 
Completely, completely different

377
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,640
round. 
I think with James is, it was so

378
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,240
good because that was my 
favorite kind of running in my 

379
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:31,800
favorite kind of scenery. 
We did legs. 

380
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,520
It would have been like 3 if he 
was doing a singular clockwise 

381
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,800
Bob Graham, but it was like 
something like 7. 

382
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,960
I think it was because he's done
the double. 

383
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:45,600
So it was going from Dunmail 
Rays over to Wellsdale. 

384
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,760
Now I love that area. 
I love that kind of running. 

385
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,240
It's just technical and rocky 
and rugged and it was all I see.

386
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,800
So it was like everything was 
glistening. 

387
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,600
It was like having diamonds on 
the floor running on diamonds. 

388
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:04,360
It were literally all sparkly. 
Clouds were blowing in and out. 

389
00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:07,240
The sunshine was out. 
We was above the clouds at 

390
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,920
times. 
Sunset over was over West Water 

391
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,080
and he said no more. 
You can just imagine it can't. 

392
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:16,360
It was just like one of the best
running days ever. 

393
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:18,640
The conditions were just 
brilliant. 

394
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,320
And then to be helping somebody 
out do that and then know that 

395
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,200
they've succeeded, that was 
probably up there with one of 

396
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,840
the best supports I've done. 
Yeah, for sure. 

397
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:34,480
They're the ones that you've 
sort of an achievement for 

398
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:40,680
helping them, but what out of 
any of them do you think that 

399
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,040
they were on the brink? 
You don't know if they were 

400
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,080
going to make it, but you think 
that you made the difference. 

401
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:51,720
Is there any? 
Where I kind of really help 

402
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,720
them. 
Yeah, I would say John Kelly's 

403
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,680
for sure. 
I mean, I took a pizza for 

404
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,120
myself. 
I didn't take any sports 

405
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:02,880
nutrition, and that was my food 
for the night. 

406
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,000
I was meant to give John the odd
slice, but he took a shine to 

407
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,160
it. 
He couldn't eat anything and he 

408
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:15,840
practically ate my whole pizza. 
So without the pizza, he might 

409
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,480
not have made it. 
So, you know, there's that. 

410
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:21,720
And we just had to keep really 
pushing him. 

411
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,080
Like, you know, he was in a lot 
of pain, not because of an 

412
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,480
injury as such, but just from 
pushing hard. 

413
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:33,440
He was still running and just 
the way we just the way we did 

414
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,400
it and you know, we all made a 
conscious effort to turn our 

415
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,360
heads. 
So much is on really bright just

416
00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:43,120
to keep him awake and just the 
words we were saying to him 

417
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:45,920
would come on John properly. 
She's like going come on John. 

418
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:49,880
Very bit cringy really and a bit
embarrassing. 

419
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,960
I felt a bit bad after like we 
wasn't shouting at him like 

420
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,800
nastily, but we were going come 
on John, you can do it, you can 

421
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,600
do it. 
We just really have to beast him

422
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,360
over the TV's. 
So I would say, yeah, that is 

423
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:04,680
kind of true. 
Like if he'd have had he if he 

424
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,920
didn't have was there, he'd have
been so tempted to just take it 

425
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,320
easy. 
People, that's what people need 

426
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,640
though. 
And that's it's kind of a nice 

427
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,760
segue on to the next question 
because we've got wrote down 

428
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,520
what is the biggest 
misconception that people have 

429
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,200
about FKTS and the support that 
goes into them. 

430
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,440
Probably lots of things really. 
I mean, I have to think about 

431
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,440
this question from a while 
before I come on the call, but I

432
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:37,520
would say just how much hard 
work goes into a singular 

433
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,200
challenge. 
It's a year, sometimes two years

434
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,880
depending on how big it is. 
It could even be 6 months, you 

435
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:50,320
know, if it's something smaller.
But like the amount of effort 

436
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,680
and hard work that goes in from 
the individual running it, the 

437
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:58,080
investment they make physically,
mentally and emotionally before 

438
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,480
they set off, not to mention 
what they do on the in, in the 

439
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,640
challenge. 
And then you've got the road 

440
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,280
support that needs to make sure 
that the logistics are going 

441
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,480
well, people dropping out, 
finding somebody else. 

442
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,880
It always happens and nobody 
does it on purpose, but you 

443
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,080
know, it does happen. 
So making sure that they're 

444
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,440
there and you know, they get no 
sleepy. 

445
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,600
I've, I've helped people out 
before, you know, just on the 

446
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,880
road support and you come back 
from that and you're knackered, 

447
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,520
you know, for a couple of days. 
So there's all the effort that 

448
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,280
goes into that. 
And then you've got the team on 

449
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:32,960
the hill there put a lot of 
effort in. 

450
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,720
There's normally two to three 
people at a time with them and 

451
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,360
they're always constantly like 
rotating with other people. 

452
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:46,120
So it's a massive, massive like 
organise it like an organising 

453
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:48,280
thing. 
And I think just for people that

454
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,360
don't really know too much about
it, they probably don't realise 

455
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,880
how much has gone into that 
behind the scenes, That could be

456
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,840
one of the biggest 
misconceptions. 

457
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:03,600
One could be a lot of people say
to me like how, how can you help

458
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:07,360
somebody break something that 
you'd say or something like 

459
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:09,360
that. 
Maybe like more often than more 

460
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:12,080
often than not, you'll have the 
current record holder helping 

461
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,640
somebody out who's trying to 
break their record and they're 

462
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,400
smiling and laughing and they're
glad to see them break it. 

463
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,720
So people might be a bit like, 
how does that work? 

464
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,320
But it's not like that in trail 
running, is it? 

465
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,000
It's more like everyone's trying
to push the boundaries and see 

466
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:35,320
what's what, what's you know 
what, what can be done, what's 

467
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:40,000
the limits. 
Or that could be one thing. 

468
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,360
I think what you're saying. 
There. 

469
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,440
It's a sort of they're achieving
something like you help a lot of

470
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,120
people, you're achieving 
something by them succeeding. 

471
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,600
So the current record holder, 
they are succeeding by breaking 

472
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,960
their own record. 
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty crazy, 

473
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:12,320
but yeah, it's right, Yeah. 
So you you mentioned that John 

474
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:19,240
Kelly is a bit of a pizza fan. 
What about yourself during races

475
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,600
or adventures that you do? 
What kind of fuel do you have 

476
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:32,080
other than pizza? 
So far, say like a long run, 

477
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,600
it'll be generally some sort of 
like it's always carbohydrate 

478
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:45,360
for me, mainly if it's under 
under 5 hours, under 10 hours of

479
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,280
a training run. 
But it would be more things like

480
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:58,240
say Jelly babies or like 
Nutrigrain bars, squashes sugar,

481
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,920
basically a lot of sugar, but 
it's normally stuff you can buy 

482
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,520
from a shop, stuff that's not 
that expensive because race, 

483
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,080
race nutrition is expensive, 
right? 

484
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,720
And if you're if you if you're 
on that all year round when you 

485
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,640
do your vases, you're not going 
to be able to stay on that for 

486
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,520
long durations because you've 
maxed it out in training. 

487
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,120
So I'll tend to use like, yeah, 
real food if you like, but 

488
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,720
you're still mainly 
carbohydrated based during 

489
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:32,280
training runs. 
If they're really longs, say for

490
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,760
example, if I did the spine 
race, there will be a lot more 

491
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:43,560
like substantial real food in 
their sandwiches, wraps, bits of

492
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,320
everything really, probably a 
little bit less sugar. 

493
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,160
This will be some sugar in it, 
but not not highly concentrated 

494
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,640
sugar just because I would go 
off it over a number of days. 

495
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,240
And then in racing and again, it
all boils down to how long the 

496
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,000
race is. 
But just say for example, 

497
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:07,360
anything under 20 hours, maybe 
even longer than that auto trail

498
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,240
Snowdonia, that took me 30 odd 
hours. 

499
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,640
And I think I literally lift off
gels and carve drink on that 

500
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,000
one. 
It's hard to do, but it's 

501
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,040
doable. 
So yeah, general rule of thumb 

502
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,000
for me is racing sports 
nutrition. 

503
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,400
And sorry, I'll just put my 
phone on silent. 

504
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,720
And if it's not racing, real 
food. 

505
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,920
And what gels did you take 
during your TS? 

506
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,280
What works for you? 
Yeah. 

507
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,000
So I was on the precision fuel 
and hydration products. 

508
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,480
I was on the floor gels. 
So you can get. 

509
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:46,600
Do you know what they are? 
Yeah, I, I, we, we obviously do 

510
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,680
because we're experts in these 
sort of things, honestly. 

511
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,520
But for the listeners, why don't
we explain it? 

512
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,680
Yeah. 
So instead of using like a 

513
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,040
singular gel in a singular 
individual wrapper, what you 

514
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,720
want to do and put in your 
mouth, you can squeeze out one 

515
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,040
big massive gel into like a 
squishy flask, a soft flask that

516
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,520
you would normally put water in 
in your in your in your front of

517
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,200
your pack. 
You make one of them literally 

518
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,680
into a humongous gel so that 
you're not, you're not opening 

519
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,920
like this would be 1030g gels, 
but you have it all in an 

520
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,280
individual flask and you just 
squeeze little bits into your 

521
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,320
mouth. 
And if you train it, you can 

522
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,960
almost over a couple of runs, 
you can figure out what 30 grams

523
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,840
is. 
I know that like 3-3 socks of 

524
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,400
what I call a sock, that's me 30
grams done. 

525
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:35,840
And it's literally to the 
millimetre. 

526
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,040
Honestly with I've practiced it 
that much. 

527
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:44,120
So I was using the floor gels, 
the chews, I was using the carb 

528
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,280
mix. 
Whenever I hit my crew, rather 

529
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,800
than add additional weight to my
pack when I was already putting 

530
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,240
weight into it in the form of 
water, I thought, why not guys? 

531
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,120
90 grams of carbs in with my 
liquids as well, just to make my

532
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,120
pack a little bit lighter. 
So I was on carbohydrate mix. 

533
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,800
So that's what I was on in 
between the checkpoints. 

534
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,720
And then when I would hit the 
checkpoints, then if there was 

535
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,120
something there that I fancied, 
like a bit of a bagel or 

536
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,640
something like that, quite like 
a bagel, just a plain bagel, 

537
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,280
nothing on it. 
Rice Krispies squares, bars 

538
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:27,000
quite like them. 
So yeah, it's a bit of a lie. 

539
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,960
I was on bits of real food when 
I got to places I could have 

540
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,960
real food. 
But in between the checkpoints I

541
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,560
will just be on sports 
nutrition. 

542
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,080
And what's the most ridiculous 
thing that you've eaten during 

543
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,480
an adventure or a race because 
it's the only thing that you 

544
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:49,680
could manage in stomach? 
So for this question I couldn't 

545
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,520
really think of I've got one of 
them brains that can just eat 

546
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,320
anything. 
It's the obese kidding me. 

547
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,280
I can just eat anything whenever
I want to eat. 

548
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,480
But the most ridiculous thing is
when I did the Spine Challenge 

549
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:07,840
of South in 2019, it might have 
been on the way back from kit 

550
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,920
check. 
I went to McDonald's through the

551
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,679
drive through, ordered a couple 
of double cheeseburgers, put 

552
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:15,800
them underneath my kit box that 
was really heavy so they were 

553
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,760
squished to like frisbees. 
I put one in my Hebden Bridge 

554
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,719
drop bag and one in the ones to 
go to Malantown and both of them

555
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,679
checkpoints had a cold double 
cheeseburger from Mackie's. 

556
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,760
That would have been quite good 
for salt though, would it not? 

557
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:34,440
Gorgeous. 
Yeah, it was really nice. 

558
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,239
A cold ketchup as well, and the 
cold cheese. 

559
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,639
It was really nice. 
Something that I don't think 

560
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:43,040
I've said for many years. 
What I used to say was I've got 

561
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,679
a fat person living inside me 
because like you. 

562
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:53,159
I. 
Can just eat anything, right? 

563
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:58,280
Next question. 
This might be somebody else's 

564
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,360
achievement that you feel 
personally you've achieved 

565
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,080
through it, or it might be 
something you've done, but what 

566
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:06,920
is your biggest running 
achievement? 

567
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,920
Oh, biggest running achievement.
I've not looked at it from that 

568
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,120
angle, but yeah, like, you know,
helping other people out there's

569
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,040
even though that's their 
achievement, it's a good 

570
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,640
achievement of yours helping 
out. 

571
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,800
So yeah, the James Gibson one 
the other week was good 

572
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:31,200
achievement from, you know, 
being a good person and helping 

573
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,120
them achieve their one of their 
successes. 

574
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:39,320
But my own personal best running
achievement was probably when I 

575
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,080
did. 
Have you heard of the Steve 

576
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,320
Power Round? 
But I'm not sure what it is. 

577
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,000
Yeah, so it's it's been around 
for a long time, but it's it's 

578
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,480
getting more and more popular. 
It's the all the way right. 

579
00:35:53,480 --> 00:36:01,240
It's in around above 2500 feet. 
It's around about 114 miles long

580
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:07,360
and around about 14,000 meters. 
Starts and finishes at the Moot 

581
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,920
Hall. 
Well, you can, you don't have to

582
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,360
as long as you, you can start 
anywhere on the route as long as

583
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,600
you visit the moot hall. 
I started at the moot Hall and I

584
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,760
went clockwise. 
So I think it was 2021. 

585
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,320
I was meant to be doing ultra 
trail Snowdonia 100 mile race. 

586
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,680
And then a week before the race,
we all got an e-mail saying due 

587
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,320
to COVID, because this was when 
COVID was brand new, it got 

588
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,800
cancelled, unfortunately. 
So I was like, really fit and 

589
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,360
didn't have anything to go and 
do now. 

590
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,880
So I put it on to, I think it 
was Instagram. 

591
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,160
I just said, anybody know what I
can do? 

592
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,320
And a guy called Paul Wilson 
messaged me back and said do a 

593
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,560
Steve Parr round. 
He sent me the details, sent me 

594
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,360
the route and the rules and 
stuff like that because I'd 

595
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:01,760
never heard of it. 
And yeah, that week I got a crew

596
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,240
together, didn't manage to go on
recce any of it, just kind of 

597
00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,040
went in blind and run Steve Pass
original route. 

598
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:13,560
And yeah, I broke the record on 
it and that's about 20 minutes 

599
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:14,760
off. 
It was very close. 

600
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,800
And I'll say yeah, that's 
probably my my own personal 

601
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,360
biggest achievement, breaking 
that record. 

602
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,000
It's subsequently been broken 
many times since then, but. 

603
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,400
But you held it, and that's for 
Mars. 

604
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,560
Yeah, yeah, I held it for a 
little while. 

605
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,440
And then another one that 
springs to mind as well is 

606
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:44,240
finishing the Swiss Peaks 360, 
if you've heard of that one that

607
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:49,800
was really enjoyed that race. 
It was just literally 4 days, 

608
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,480
yeah, four days running across 
Switzerland in the mountains. 

609
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,360
And what's not to love about 
that? 

610
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,560
It was spiritual, you know, just
every day just flying through 

611
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,320
the mountains, sunrise, sunset, 
it's just on your own. 

612
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,000
It, it would just fab. 
I'd probably say that's one of 

613
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:11,760
my biggest achievements as well.
And Moot Hall for those that are

614
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,240
listening and think, oh, I've 
heard that before, that is in 

615
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:17,280
Keswick. 
And that's where the Bob Graham 

616
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,600
round starts. 
Yeah, it's very similar to a 

617
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,600
Bob. 
The first two legs are very 

618
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:30,760
similar to a Bob Graham. 
Even like 3 is very similar to a

619
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,640
Bob Graham. 
But instead of dropping off, you

620
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,520
do an out one back to cast the 
Cam back to Hell Valley Inn and 

621
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:39,880
then from Hell Valley. 
And then instead of going 

622
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,760
towards Fairfield, depending 
which way you do it, because you

623
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,480
can do it a few ways. 
We dropped off to say someday 

624
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,240
then and then from say someday 
over towards like the Far 

625
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:54,480
Eastern Fells. 
But yeah, it's very, it's very, 

626
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,280
the rules are very similar to 
Bob Graham. 

627
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,480
You get a crew, you have 
witnesses. 

628
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,240
You have 48 hours on this one 
though. 

629
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:04,720
It's very similar to a double 
Bob Graham, but just not 2 loops

630
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:07,880
of the Bob Graham. 
It's a bit harder. 

631
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:11,640
It's not as there's not as many 
trods on sections with Bob. 

632
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,360
There's a lot of trods you can 
follow. 

633
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:14,960
It's been been going for that 
long. 

634
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,560
But the power rounds a bit. 
Some of the some of the lines 

635
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,560
you're taking are a lot more. 
There's no trod. 

636
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,880
It's been a. 100 years. 
Yeah, it's much harder. 

637
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,000
You did the harder thing, that 
Bob Graham thing. 

638
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,400
That's the easy option. 
You did the hard one. 

639
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,000
Maybe. 
Do you prefer going out and 

640
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,960
doing the rounds like you said 
about the Steve Parr round when 

641
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,360
it's not a big event, or do you 
prefer events? 

642
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,880
Good question. 
So for years I've, that is the 

643
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,080
only personal type challenge 
that I've done and I really 

644
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,840
enjoyed it. 
And then ever since then I've 

645
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,680
been roped back into, I don't 
know why just yet doing more 

646
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:03,040
races. 
I plan to race this year. 

647
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,120
And about two weeks ago I 
changed my mind and I've gone 

648
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,080
from doing a big, I was going to
do ultra trail Snowdonia 100 

649
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,960
mile race. 
I'm, I've pulled out of that and

650
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,240
I'm going to do some more 
personal challenges instead 

651
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:22,360
because I just think so, yeah, 
to answer your question, race is

652
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,960
good. 
But yeah, with the personal 

653
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,720
challenges, it's still a race, 
but you've not got any direct 

654
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:34,440
competition in the there. 
And then if you get me, you 

655
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,440
know, it's just what you're 
doing and it and it and it can 

656
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:41,200
be a bit more, a bit more 
pleasant, I guess mentally going

657
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:46,000
into it in if you're going to 
enter a big race, there's a lot 

658
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:50,320
of pressure because I like the 
trackers and stuff like that. 

659
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,800
I mean, well, you can have a, 
you'll have a tracker when you 

660
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,240
do these personal challenges, 
but there's only you on the on 

661
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:59,280
the route if you get me. 
So there's less pressure in that

662
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:00,440
sense. 
But I think when you're in a 

663
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,160
race and this is how everybody 
else feels, it's probably just 

664
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,600
my personal opinion. 
But when you're racing an event,

665
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,080
you know, you're racing 
everybody and sometimes I can 

666
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:12,760
feel a bit embarrassed by how 
I've done. 

667
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,520
But when you're doing a personal
challenge it, even though you 

668
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,600
can't, you could compare 
yourself to a leaderboard 

669
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,600
afterwards. 
It's it's weird. 

670
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,560
You kind of don't look at it. 
I don't look at it like that. 

671
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,640
Whilst it's happening. 
There's these crashes on. 

672
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,920
On a race day, everybody's got 
the same conditions, whereas on 

673
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:37,840
a like personal, on a Bob Graham
round sort of thing, you're the 

674
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,720
only one racing in those 
specific conditions. 

675
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,400
Do you think that's? 
Yeah, you can't get your ass. 

676
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:45,680
You can't get your ass whopped 
off anybody else on that day. 

677
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,040
It might be a better way of 
putting it. 

678
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,120
You can get your ass off the 
weather and stuff, but you've 

679
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,520
not got a particular person that
you've either wanted to be 

680
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,040
beating you. 
There's no like you can't. 

681
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,960
You can't feel that finishing is
a great achievement and the 

682
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:02,840
personal challenges because you 
could finish a race and feel a 

683
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:06,960
bit let down by your performance
due to your time. 

684
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,080
Well, not your time, but your 
petition certainly, if that 

685
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,720
makes any sense. 
And for those listening that 

686
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:19,320
aren't aware, Howard has just 
completed one of the Spain races

687
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,960
this week. 
We are recording on Sunday 

688
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:23,200
night. 
Spain's just finished this 

689
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,960
morning. 
Which race did you take part in?

690
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,600
I did the Sprint north. 
And how was it? 

691
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,200
Really good, yeah, I enjoyed it.
A little bit short for me, 

692
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,880
really. 
Still 42 miles which is a long 

693
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:43,720
way, but I'm not really known 
for shorter races or entering 

694
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,600
shorter races and maybe not 
running fast in shorter races. 

695
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,520
But it went really well. 
Finished fourth. 

696
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:59,480
In the end it was close between 
me and 3rd but I had him in my 

697
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,520
size and I just couldn't catch 
him. 

698
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,400
It was good fun. 
I think it helped me get a 

699
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:07,920
faster time trying to chase him 
down and I think it helped him 

700
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,960
get a faster time me breathing 
down his neck. 

701
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,560
But no, it was it was a great 
day. 

702
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,480
Like the the weather was really 
nice. 

703
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,240
It was a bit grey when we set 
off a bit of drizzle, but within

704
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:22,960
an hour that stopped going over 
the Cheviot. 

705
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:26,800
So that's over my shoulder. 
Sky was orange and pink, nice 

706
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,520
Bank of clouds rolling in The 
ground was nice. 

707
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,520
It was like soft enough to not 
be rock hard, but underneath, 

708
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,560
say maybe a couple of inches, 
you felt yourself bottom out 

709
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,440
where it was still bullet hard 
from when it was really cold the

710
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,760
week before. 
But the rain that we'd had last 

711
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,560
week, it just kind of softened 
it up a little bit. 

712
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:51,240
So the Cheviots were as slow 
going as they could have been, 

713
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,680
apart from when you got to the 
Chevy itself. 

714
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,560
It was like knee deep snow. 
So that slowed us down a little 

715
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,760
bit. 
But no, I, I had a good race 

716
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:01,840
really. 
I can't complain. 

717
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:06,160
I said 9 hours, I'd be really 
happy with it and I got 915 or 

718
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,240
something like that. 
Yeah. 

719
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,800
To say we was doing a bit more 
walking on the Chevy because we 

720
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,520
were just sinking in the snow. 
It was really tiring. 

721
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,640
No, I I had a good race. 
I'd recommend it. 

722
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,720
It's a good introduction to 
anybody who's thinking about 

723
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:25,040
doing one of the longer races. 
You have to buy all the kits. 

724
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,840
So if you've invested that much 
into it in the kit for the kit, 

725
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,560
you've got the the kit for the 
rest of the other races then. 

726
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,720
So that sounds like you're going
to be doing one of the other 

727
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:39,520
races? 
Yeah, I have. 

728
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,120
So I've done the Challenger S, 
I've done the Challenger N, I've

729
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,680
done the Sprint NI just need to 
do the Sprint South and the 

730
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,920
full. 
I'm going to do the full next 

731
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:57,200
year now I've decided. 
Next and you're going to. 

732
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,000
I was. 
That's good though, when you say

733
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,240
you've got the full cat as well,
because I know that that can be 

734
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:06,480
a bit off putting for people 
even thinking about Spain. 

735
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,360
Not only like with the training 
and the distance in itself, but 

736
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,080
the catalyst is phenomenal, 
isn't it? 

737
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,440
But necessary. 
Yeah, it's extensive. 

738
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,880
And at some point, I've not done
one for two or three years. 

739
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,200
And yeah, you used to have to 
carry a stove as well, but 

740
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,960
they're taking that out, which I
think is good really, because 

741
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,320
they're not saying you can't 
take a stove. 

742
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,480
If you want to take a stove and 
cook yourself some food, you can

743
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,040
do. 
But for the people that aren't 

744
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,240
doing that, at least you don't 
have to carry a stove now. 

745
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,640
So that's pretty good. 
But yeah, there is a lot of care

746
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:45,200
and just, I think a lot of 
people can get overwhelmed by it

747
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,720
because they tend to get too 
engrossed in what everybody else

748
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:52,480
is doing. 
Well, what you should be doing 

749
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,360
in the spine is, is if if it 
passes kit check and you you 

750
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:56,880
want to use that, you can use 
that. 

751
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:00,040
You know, try not to get too 
worried about that. 

752
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,920
Your piece of kit isn't exactly 
the same as somebody else's 

753
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,520
piece of kit. 
As long as it passes the 

754
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,600
description and you can afford 
it, get it. 

755
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:15,160
Yeah, and you said, well, first 
of all, the, I always think it's

756
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,640
funny that they call it the 
Sprint because 42 miles, if 

757
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,520
you're sprinting that then good 
luck. 

758
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,760
The other thing I was going to 
say was you, you said that you 

759
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,080
had third in your sights. 
Was there anything that you 

760
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,560
think that you could have done 
on the day, not, not in 

761
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,240
training, but actually on the 
day that you think now I, I 

762
00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:38,720
could have, could have had an 
extra gel and I might have been 

763
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:40,680
able to catch them. 
You're not saying that you would

764
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,680
have, but to make yourself 
better. 

765
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:47,240
Yeah, I, I think I've asked 
myself all this and I think, I 

766
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:50,360
think This is why I say I had. 
I'm normally quite hard on 

767
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:51,960
myself if I don't have a good 
race. 

768
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,160
And even though I didn't get 
that third position, I was a bit

769
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,520
gutted because in the previous 
races I've ever done in winter, 

770
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,720
I've finished third. 
So I was really hopeful that on 

771
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:03,440
a good day I might get my third 
in this race. 

772
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,640
And I'd have had a third in 
every single winter spine going 

773
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:11,160
nearly. 
So I kind of, yeah. 

774
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,480
Even though I lost that, which 
was quite important, I still had

775
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,800
a really good run in my own head
because my fueling went to plan.

776
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:23,480
Even if I would have had another
gel, I don't think it would. 

777
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,440
I was already on 100 grams of 
carbs and I wasn't running very 

778
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,720
fast. 
If I'm being honest, I wasn't 

779
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:33,800
like the intense, I was running 
pretty fast, but the intensity 

780
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,200
at which I was running at, you 
know, I wasn't, I wasn't allowed

781
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:38,720
to threshold or anything like 
that. 

782
00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:41,400
I mean, I would have been at 
certain times, but for the most 

783
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,160
of the race I was running in 
Zone 2. 

784
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:47,240
So none of my few of them went 
well. 

785
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:48,680
I mean, there's a few things I 
could have done. 

786
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,560
So I've been really, really damn
close to him. 

787
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,360
So there was just before I come 
in to Burness, my watch was 

788
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:01,280
telling me to go left. 
So I'd already gone past this 

789
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:02,720
left turning before I realised 
that. 

790
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,480
So I was like oh damn, turn 
around and I couldn't find this 

791
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,960
left turn so I'm looking for it.
So I thought oh I'm panicking 

792
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,680
then because I'm like I'm 
bleeding time. 

793
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,960
I'm thinking this guy behind me 
somewhere and this guy in front 

794
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,760
is getting away. 
So run back up for about another

795
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,240
30 seconds, still no left turn. 
I'm wondering where this left 

796
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:23,080
turn is. 
So I ran back and I just saw 

797
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,800
this little tiny like a dog 
trail where dogs just run off 

798
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,240
into and it was all like the 
river had bust its banks. 

799
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:31,920
There was all dead trees in 
there, tree trunks everywhere. 

800
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,520
It were a mess. 
So I thought I was really 

801
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,760
worried that I was going to get 
penalized on time if I didn't 

802
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,520
stick to the the right trail. 
So I started wading through all 

803
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,560
these bloody this dead forest 
basically like knee deep in 

804
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:48,200
river where it bust its banks. 
I didn't see anybody overtake 

805
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,800
me, but the guy that was in 3rd 
was obviously on his way there, 

806
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,280
but I couldn't see him. 
I'm assuming he didn't go this 

807
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:55,520
way. 
I'm assuming I'm the only person

808
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,200
in the race that was like 
adamant they were going to stay 

809
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,360
on the GPX line. 
And then by the time I've gotten

810
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,680
through to where it where it was
runnable again, the path I was 

811
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:08,880
on just run parallel literally 
with where I was. 

812
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,080
But I know at some point because
I've the, the funniest thing is 

813
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:15,040
I've wrecked it. 
So I have wrecked this about 

814
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,640
four to five weeks earlier and I
knew there was a letter. 

815
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,440
And so I'm thinking how the 
river's just really burst its 

816
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,160
banks over the last couple of 
days and this is, this is you're

817
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,000
on the right path. 
Anyway, when I got to where it 

818
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,080
was runnable again, I was on 
where the letter was. 

819
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,360
I think what happened is the 
organisers when you plot a route

820
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,840
on OS maps or something, you can
have it on snap if you know what

821
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,200
that is when you tap it and it 
just like, and I think they've 

822
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,360
just snapped it and not really 
looked at that little particular

823
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,360
100 meter stretch that's will 
come through there. 

824
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,280
At a glance, you look like 
you're on the fire Rd. but the 

825
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:52,400
GPX file had pulled us off 
anyway. 

826
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,160
So I waded through that. 
So that wasted about 3 minutes, 

827
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,120
I'm going to guess 3 to 4 
minutes and use a lot of energy 

828
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,800
because I was like obviously if 
my legs really high, I was 

829
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,880
trying to push my heart rate for
Sky Eye at that point just 

830
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,840
because I'm exerting myself 
trying to go fast through all 

831
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,000
this crap. 
So I wasted a bit of time there 

832
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:19,280
and then I sat down on a bridge 
for two minutes and put my 

833
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,600
spikes on. 
But I think that'll save me 

834
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:22,200
time. 
If I did not put them micro 

835
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,960
spikes on I would have been a 
lot slower over the next couple 

836
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,000
of years. 
So that's that's not a waste of 

837
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,280
time. 
Coming off the high route. 

838
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:32,160
There is 2 styles next to each 
other and could because it was 

839
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,480
dark I couldn't see. 
There was a fence line on the 

840
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,080
side of the other side of the 
wall that separated the two 

841
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,920
styles and I just so happened to
get on the wrong side of the 

842
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,840
wall, the wall where I should 
have been. 

843
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,480
I had to climb over a barbed 
wire fence and like a farm was 

844
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,720
like a shoulder high wall. 
So that probably wasted a minute

845
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:57,440
like a Navara even then. 
So if I could say 4 minutes, I 

846
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,480
think he finished about 5 or 6 
minutes ahead of me. 

847
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,360
I would have only been a minute 
or two behind him. 

848
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,240
He finished six minutes ahead of
me I think in total in the end. 

849
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,560
But no other than that. 
Other than that, if I could have

850
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:16,320
just been a little bit more 
mentally fired up, really, 

851
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:22,240
really like really pushed myself
to the depths of like despair. 

852
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,560
But I already felt like that in 
my head. 

853
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,680
I was I was I was ready for I 
was ready for giving up. 

854
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,880
In my head, I was ready for 
thinking just like just just let

855
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,600
him have it. 
But you know, he was so close 

856
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:34,800
that it I would have been das to
just throw the towel in. 

857
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,000
So I did carry on, did carry on 
pushing. 

858
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,480
I guess we were both just really
up for it. 

859
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,600
Yeah, I think you've got to 
think now that the result is the

860
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,320
result. 
It's what happened. 

861
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,480
Because for all you know, he 
might have made exactly the same

862
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,280
errors. 
And he's thinking, well, I could

863
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,480
have been even further ahead of 
him so. 

864
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,160
Yeah, he must have had a few 
errors as well. 

865
00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:00,720
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And before we move on from the 

866
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:04,320
spine, the last question I've 
got from the whole week is you 

867
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,440
had very successful athletes and
all of them completed. 

868
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:14,120
Was there any bit of advice that
you gave all of them the same 

869
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,480
advice, even though that they 
would have been very different 

870
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,240
athletes? 
I would imagine was the one 

871
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:22,880
piece of consistent advice she 
gave across the races. 

872
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:28,360
Yeah, few things. 
Don't get too caught up and 

873
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,560
running too much on that first 
day. 

874
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,760
I always say to them, give it a 
couple of days and if you still 

875
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,520
feel like you want to, if you 
feel after a couple of days that

876
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,880
you you want to run, they go for
it. 

877
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:45,000
But I think a lot of them found 
out that after 24 hours of that,

878
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,120
you ain't going to be the 
elites. 

879
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,720
Might be, you know, the elites 
might be jogging it all the way 

880
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:58,160
through consistently, but most 
people are going to be fast 

881
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,080
hiking it. 
So I said to them, yeah, don't, 

882
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:04,200
don't get too caught up and 
running too much in them first 

883
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,560
24 hours because I said, if you 
do, you have won't finish or 

884
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,680
you'll have a dreadful 
second-half of the race. 

885
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,560
I said you'd be you'd be wanting
to walk and you won't be able to

886
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:15,840
walk. 
So that was one good bit of 

887
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,360
advice. 
And I think most of them have 

888
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,480
said that, you know that that's 
what they did and that's what 

889
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:24,880
allowed them to finish. 
The other bit of advice is is 

890
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,160
just pre warning them that in 
the build up to the race, you're

891
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,400
really excited. 
This is going to be one of the 

892
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,080
best things you've ever done. 
You think, you think, and then 

893
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,000
you get into the race and it's 
the complete opposite. 

894
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:37,960
It's the worst thing you've ever
done. 

895
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:39,280
You're questioning your life 
choices. 

896
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,160
You're thinking, what the bloody
hell was I thinking? 

897
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,120
But then it does change when you
finish it. 

898
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,000
Then it goes back to the best 
thing you ever did because you 

899
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,800
finished. 
But during the event you're 

900
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,720
torn. 
You just want to quit. 

901
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,600
Maybe not for everybody, but for
most people, there's points in 

902
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,200
that race when you're 
questioning. 

903
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,080
Have you got what it takes to 
finish? 

904
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,960
I know when I did the challenge 
enough, I wanted to quit along 

905
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,440
Adrian's wall as I was nearly in
tears. 

906
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,640
I was torn. 
I was like, I really want to 

907
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,240
quit, but I can't quit. 
I just can't do it. 

908
00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:14,600
There's they've got this tracker
on me. 

909
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,880
There's people watching if I 
pull the plug, how does that 

910
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,120
make me look? 
And just because it's just 

911
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,800
because it's hard, you know, you
got to keep you got to keep 

912
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,200
going. 
So you need to pre warn them 

913
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:29,720
that to be ready mentally that 
they're going to, they're going 

914
00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:34,680
to be faced with this and they 
need to, they need to have a, a 

915
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,440
way to stay in it. 
Because if some people, if 

916
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,120
they've not had that pre warning
when they, when it, when that 

917
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:42,400
comes to them, they can't handle
it. 

918
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,080
They're like, Oh my God, like I 
didn't, didn't, didn't expect 

919
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,320
this to happen. 
This was supposed to be fun. 

920
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,160
This was supposed to be nice. 
It was supposed to be the time 

921
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,040
of my life. 
And, you know, after 12 hours 

922
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,040
when you when you're freezing 
cold and wet and you're hungry 

923
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,240
and you're not running anymore, 
it's, and you've got another 100

924
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:59,760
and odd mile left and you're not
even 1/3 in yet and you're 

925
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,080
tired, what do you do then? 
So it was pre warning them that 

926
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,200
when they get to that point, 
they can't quit. 

927
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,000
They really can't, not unless 
they really, you know, there's 

928
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,880
something badly wrong like it 
that you know, they're in danger

929
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,520
or they're severely injured. 
But I said to them, if, if you, 

930
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,600
if you get to 100K in and you 
want to quit because you're 

931
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:22,400
tired, then why have you 
entered? 

932
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,800
You know? 
Yeah, you know, you need to, you

933
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,560
can't quit for that. 
You need to, you need to have a 

934
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:32,920
why basically, and you need to 
talk yourself back into getting 

935
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:35,280
out there. 
So I did pre warn all of them 

936
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:36,680
that you know, this is going to 
happen. 

937
00:55:37,240 --> 00:55:40,240
So that's a good one. 
Good selling advice. 

938
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,160
Look after your feet, you know, 
just look after them feet. 

939
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,720
You know, if you, if you, if you
neglect them, then yeah, you're 

940
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:53,200
not going to be able to walk on 
them, are you? 

941
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:56,160
And then just take sleep as it 
comes. 

942
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:57,840
I said don't factor in the 
sleep. 

943
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,040
Don't rigidly tell yourself, I 
mean, make plans when you might 

944
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,560
want, when you think you might 
want to sleep because it's just 

945
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,400
sensible. 
But if you get there and you're 

946
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:10,200
not tired, then don't sleep. 
Don't lie. 

947
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,720
Don't lie there. 
Just looking at the looking at 

948
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:15,880
the ceiling, if you can, if you 
can get another, you know, 6 to 

949
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:19,440
10 hours on the trail, you know,
just take your sleep as it 

950
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,560
comes. 
I think that's pretty much about

951
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,000
it really for like same advice 
to everybody. 

952
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:26,520
There's probably lots more, but 
I don't think you you guys have 

953
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:31,640
got enough time. 
And the saying goes, do as I 

954
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:34,800
say, not as I do. 
But did you follow that same 

955
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:37,080
advice? 
You're obviously it wasn't a 

956
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:40,400
multi day one that you were 
doing this time so you weren't 

957
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,640
sleeping, but were you 
questioning your life choices? 

958
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,280
Oh, absolutely, I've done it. 
I didn't. 

959
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,920
So this was another reason why 
the the Sprint N went so well 

960
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:52,520
because I didn't have any dark 
moments. 

961
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:54,120
I really enjoyed it all the way 
through. 

962
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:57,520
I was, I was kind of, it got 
tough at times, but I was never 

963
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,480
ever we should have not entered 
it. 

964
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:02,920
But there's been some races that
I've entered. 

965
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:04,840
I'm trying to think of which 
one. 

966
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,160
It might have been Calderdale 
Way Ultra 50 mile a years ago. 

967
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,880
I got 30 miles into that and I 
was like questioning my life 

968
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,720
choices. 
So yeah, it can happen in the 

969
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:20,120
shorter races, but yeah, it 
happens in nearly all the long 

970
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,040
races that I do. 
Swiss Peaks 360, for example. 

971
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,280
I was only 18 hours in, I think,
and told me when my stomach was 

972
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,240
in bits, I just felt really 
nauseous. 

973
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:34,960
And, you know, I was thinking 
that you're only into day one. 

974
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:36,800
You've only made it. 
You don't Checkpoint 2 yet. 

975
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,240
And the six checkpoints, like 
you've got another three days 

976
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:40,920
ahead of you. 
How are you going to finish when

977
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,560
you feel like this so early? 
So when you start getting 

978
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:49,520
thoughts like that, yeah, you 
need to kind of, you need to 

979
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,760
have a why. 
And I just tell myself that I 

980
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,400
put myself here like nobody else
has put a gun to my head and 

981
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,000
said, you, you need to do this. 
I'm here because I like it. 

982
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,600
And sometimes I just force a 
smile. 

983
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:05,000
I physically just sit there and 
I actually thought I start 

984
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,040
laughing and just telling myself
that I'm talking to myself like 

985
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,040
a like a lunatic on the trail 
just going, you put yourself 

986
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,160
here. 
No one's done this to you. 

987
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,960
Be grateful and just smile. 
And I sit there just going, just

988
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:21,360
forcing a smile out and it 
works. 

989
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,560
After a bit, you forget and you 
start thinking about something 

990
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,560
else and you're back in the 
game. 

991
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:28,600
Then you've just, you just need 
to ride it out. 

992
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:32,680
You just need to keep going 
until, until you forget about 

993
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:34,920
how bad it is. 
And then you start, you start 

994
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:36,200
thinking about how good it is 
then. 

995
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,440
And the last piece of advice you
gave was to look after your 

996
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,760
feet. 
And you said that you went 

997
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,920
through a flooded sort of river,
burst its banks. 

998
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,480
How were your feet? 
Pretty good. 

999
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:55,760
I mean after 9 hours I'd expect 
them to be pretty good. 

1000
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:02,640
But yeah I had deck shell 
waterproof socks on so my feet 

1001
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,680
stared. 
I'm going to say dry, but yeah, 

1002
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,800
I had no issues, no blisters, no
hotspots. 

1003
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:12,960
I've generally got, that's one 
of my strengths. 

1004
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,520
I've got really good feet for 
this kind of stuff. 

1005
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:21,200
Don't really get blisters. 
And the last question about 

1006
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,280
this, you give all the advice to
your clients, but when you're 

1007
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:33,400
running a race, does having 
clients you're responsible to 

1008
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,360
like they're accountable to you,
but you're also accountable to 

1009
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:40,720
them, Does that make you feel I 
can't give up because they're 

1010
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:43,600
watching me? 
Does that does that benefit you?

1011
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,040
It really does. 
So yeah, you've you've got that.

1012
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,120
You've got the athletes that 
you're coaching looking at you 

1013
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:54,080
and thinking he's my, you know, 
mentor stroke role model maybe. 

1014
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,240
But not only that it yeah, I 
always think it's bad for 

1015
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:00,840
business if you can't finish a 
race. 

1016
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,960
You've got you've got potential 
future athletes that might want 

1017
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:07,600
to be coached by you. 
If you do well in this race and 

1018
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,560
you finish, they're going to 
want to be coached by you. 

1019
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,440
If you've been successful, 
you've managed to finish. 

1020
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:17,560
And that's sometimes what 
athletes want in a course. 

1021
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:19,800
You want a course that's been 
there, done that. 

1022
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,200
If you've entered a race and 
you've not finished it, but 

1023
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:24,000
you're a course, they're going 
to go to another course that's 

1024
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:25,760
been there, done that race and 
finished it. 

1025
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,920
Not yeah. 
So yeah, definitely you, you, 

1026
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:32,800
you've got to finish it for that
reason sometimes. 

1027
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,640
With the dog watching and the 
trackers, it was exciting this 

1028
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:42,640
week because whenever we had a 
few friends and the fool Spain 

1029
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,640
and whenever the numbers and the
bed went below it, you're like, 

1030
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,000
right, OK, they're having the 
rest and you would go back to it

1031
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,240
maybe a couple of hours later, 
like right. 

1032
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:54,720
Why are they not moving now? 
Come on, we're we're waiting on 

1033
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:58,680
you moving north. 
There was a few there. 

1034
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:03,120
Was a few times I said to Nikki,
they're being lazy, Why are they

1035
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,240
not moving? 
They're only 200 miles into this

1036
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:07,080
race. 
Come on. 

1037
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,600
We did actually joke as well. 
We looked at the dwell time of a

1038
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,080
couple of them and they're like,
oh, they've had a lovely 

1039
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,160
holiday. 
Last week they went into the 

1040
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,000
bubble. 
They had no worries apart from 

1041
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,360
just going up the pedine way and
it's just it's so not that 

1042
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:28,240
simple. 
Yeah, you can see everything on 

1043
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:29,960
the trackers cart. 
You can. 

1044
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:32,560
It just shows everything. 
Yeah. 

1045
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:33,960
You can't hide. 
No, you can't. 

1046
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:40,880
So as you discussed earlier on 
your your reason for your why 

1047
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:45,800
you're unchanged from the losing
weight to just enjoying it has 

1048
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,840
they still? 
Is that why you run now? 

1049
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:53,200
Is it for still the enjoyment or
has that changed since? 

1050
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,760
Yeah, no, definitely. 
It's just for enjoyment. 

1051
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:01,960
I love the hills mainly. 
I mean, I love running anywhere,

1052
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:07,800
but I moved to the Lake District
so that I could run in the hills

1053
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:14,680
a little bit more. 
So yeah, I didn't think it was 

1054
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,560
possible to enjoy my running 
anymore. 

1055
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:20,360
But as the years go by, I'm just
nothing's. 

1056
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,320
It's not getting boring, it's 
not getting. 

1057
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,880
I'm not getting fed up. 
It's the passions grow in. 

1058
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,680
If anything, I just love running
in the hills. 

1059
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:35,920
I love the views. 
I love how I feel after it, just

1060
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:37,560
trying to better myself and 
stuff like that. 

1061
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:41,160
So no, I think the reasons 
always, you know, stayed the 

1062
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,600
same. 
Now there's no I do it for 

1063
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:45,200
nothing other than enjoyment 
really. 

1064
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:48,480
And maybe there's a bit of an 
escape sometimes I could use it 

1065
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:54,120
as like a bit of an escape just 
from like, is it a stress or 

1066
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,360
work or? 
But yeah, mainly it's it's 

1067
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:06,240
mainly for fun. 
And you're saying about stress 

1068
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:12,920
and escaping escapism, it 
probably leads on to what? 

1069
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,360
What do you think about when 
you're running Is? 

1070
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,480
Is it the stressful things? 
Is it nothing? 

1071
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,560
What do you think about? 
Sometimes, yeah, it depends 

1072
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:25,480
where I am, what time of day, 
what I've got on. 

1073
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,760
But yeah, it can vary from 
wondering what I've got to do 

1074
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:31,120
today and how I'm going to do 
it. 

1075
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:34,000
And then normally on the run 
I'll figure out how I'm going to

1076
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:35,280
do it. 
Because sometimes you can seem a

1077
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,960
bit overwhelming, like I've got 
too much on and I don't know how

1078
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,240
everything's going to fit. 
But go for a run, think about it

1079
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,000
and more often than not, you 
come back and you'll know what 

1080
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:49,080
you're doing. 
Sometimes on the longer runs, it

1081
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,360
can sometimes be that if you've 
got, if I've got stuff on my 

1082
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:57,040
mind, But then it then again, it
might be a bit of that. 

1083
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:02,120
And it might be sometimes I self
reflect about how I can do 

1084
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:07,000
things better in life in in my 
running, just how I can do 

1085
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,640
things better in general. 
Nothing in particular, but yeah,

1086
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:14,200
just how I can, how I can be 
better and do things better. 

1087
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:20,240
Good ideas. 
Well, so I think about what I'm 

1088
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:21,880
running. 
Sometimes if I'm doing a 

1089
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:26,360
particular race, I'll try to 
visualise what I'm going to do 

1090
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:28,480
in that race. 
That can help Visualisations, 

1091
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,720
quite a good tool to help with 
performance. 

1092
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:35,080
You know, if you visualise 
yourself being successful and 

1093
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,800
this is how you're going to do 
it in the race and everything's 

1094
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,800
going to go well, more often 
than not it it does go well. 

1095
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:42,760
You've practised it and you're 
training. 

1096
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,400
See, I can think about many 
different things on a run. 

1097
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,320
If you could get into my brain 
and see what I thought on the 

1098
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:52,680
run, you just think. 
I'm not that any point that 

1099
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,480
you're thinking. 
I'm questioning my life choices.

1100
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,800
Why am I doing this? 
Have you ever thought I'm going 

1101
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,920
to make such and such client do 
this next thing? 

1102
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,480
Say that again. 
If you're doing something really

1103
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:11,040
hard that you think, why, Why 
did I choose to do this? 

1104
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:15,040
Because I chose to do it. 
I'm doing it right. 

1105
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:19,520
I'm gonna make client X do this.
They've annoyed me this week. 

1106
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,840
They're doing that next week. 
Well, no, they're not good. 

1107
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:23,760
They should. 
Do it. 

1108
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:28,720
Yeah, I thought my clients, 
yeah, yeah, sometimes if I'm 

1109
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:32,440
doing a particular session and 
it's hard or yeah, I can 

1110
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,040
sometimes get workout ideas when
I'm doing some of the hardest 

1111
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,600
stuff, I'm thinking you're going
to turn this into a session and 

1112
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,600
I'll get home and put it into 
training piece and start dishing

1113
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:45,960
out to the athletes do. 
You ever listen to music or 

1114
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:51,560
podcasts? 
Sometimes I'll be honest because

1115
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:56,040
I tend to drift off if I try to 
watch educational podcasts or 

1116
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:59,080
even like just just like people 
chatting like we are now. 

1117
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,160
Not maybe educational, but just 
people chatting. 

1118
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:05,160
I drift off that many times that
it's pointless me listening to 

1119
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:07,000
it when I'm running because I 
just don't have a clue what's 

1120
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,440
going on. 
But I do listen to music when 

1121
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,400
I'm in the hills. 
On a long run, probably not. 

1122
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:16,880
I find it annoys me after a 
little bit. 

1123
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,320
After half an hour you can get 
inside my brain and it can stop 

1124
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:23,120
these thoughts that sometimes I 
like to have when I'm thinking 

1125
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:26,360
about things. 
I can't concentrate, but when 

1126
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:29,320
I'm on a treadmill, for example,
or just running on the roads 

1127
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:32,680
around here, I'll generally have
a little bit of music on you. 

1128
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,560
It helps. 
Yeah, the monotony of the 

1129
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:40,760
treadmill running. 
You you need something on just a

1130
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,440
rather than staring at the wall.
Yeah, it's boring. 

1131
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:49,120
Definitely. 
And do you have a dream race 

1132
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:50,880
that is still on the bucket 
list? 

1133
01:06:52,560 --> 01:06:55,480
Yeah, there's quite a few I 
quite like. 

1134
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,640
They're quite short for me, but 
I quite like the Sky Races just 

1135
01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:03,080
because of the the terrain 
you're running on and the views 

1136
01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:06,280
you get when you're doing it. 
If it's a good day, Chemo, if 

1137
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:10,560
you've heard of that, Trofio 
chemo, big classic Sky race, 

1138
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:15,240
really technical and it's got 
lots of ropes and chains and 

1139
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,600
it's highly elevated, lots of 
elevation. 

1140
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:22,840
That would quite like to do that
one day, maybe. 

1141
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:25,880
I wish I wished I'd have done 
Killian's race. 

1142
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:29,200
Tromsaw, I don't think that 
that's on anymore. 

1143
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:30,520
I don't think. 
I think he's pulled the plug on 

1144
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:32,960
that. 
That would have been a good one.

1145
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,680
Leadville quite like to go and 
do Leadville one day. 

1146
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:39,800
What's the other one? 
There's not Hard Rock. 

1147
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:42,520
There's Leadville Hard Rock and 
no Hard Rock. 

1148
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,720
No, it's I was gonna, I was 
thinking, yeah, I don't want to 

1149
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:47,920
do Western states, but I would 
love to do Hard Rock and 

1150
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:49,680
Leadville. 
They look great. 

1151
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:54,840
Western states, it looks good. 
But yeah, I would prefer to do 

1152
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,760
the other two over there, but 
Hard Rock you have to do. 

1153
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,240
Twice, because it does. 
They do it in different 

1154
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:07,840
directions, so all right. 
Yeah, I'd have a go at that. 

1155
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:11,000
There's so many good looking 
races out there now. 

1156
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,520
The Matterhorn all tracks one 
that looks pretty good. 

1157
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,319
Toddy Glossier is the top 450. 
Like to do that one day. 

1158
01:08:18,319 --> 01:08:21,560
Don't know if I'll do them. 
There's just too many in there. 

1159
01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:26,880
Yeah, there's always. 
There's no harm in admiring 

1160
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:28,479
them. 
You don't necessarily have to do

1161
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:30,680
them. 
Yeah, true, true. 

1162
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:37,680
And the next question is 1 can 
be difficult for people to 

1163
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:44,600
answer, but is there anybody 
alive, not fictional or real, 

1164
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,279
that you would like to go for a 
run with? 

1165
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:50,600
Yeah, I had to think about this 
for a little bit. 

1166
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:54,920
And I couldn't really think of 
anybody, but then Zach Miller 

1167
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:56,720
sprung to mind quite like Zach 
Miller. 

1168
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,800
He's full of energy and it looks
like he'd be a good lad to run 

1169
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:01,399
with. 
I like the way your race is. 

1170
01:09:01,399 --> 01:09:04,240
He's just all in. 
Do you know what I mean? 

1171
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:07,080
When he pulls it off, he pulls 
it off and he's not scared to. 

1172
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:11,080
Don't hold that back. 
Yeah, he just proper goes in 

1173
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:14,399
hard. 
And I've actually seen him, I 

1174
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,359
think it was Trans Gran Canaria.
He did a bit of AQ and A, and he

1175
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:22,040
just seemed like a fun guy. 
So probably Zach Miller. 

1176
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:25,399
Yeah. 
Courtney to Walter Navy good to 

1177
01:09:25,399 --> 01:09:29,399
go for a run with. 
And. 

1178
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:33,520
For anybody else, really. 
Zach Miller's a really good 

1179
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:35,479
dancer to be fit. 
Is that the guy that danced 

1180
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:39,120
along the finish line? 
Could be he's a bit, he's a bit.

1181
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:43,720
He's crazy. 
He got in trouble in some of the

1182
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:45,840
country. 
Was it for pouring water on his 

1183
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:48,760
head? 
If it's something like he was 

1184
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:50,960
just getting, he was just hot 
and he poured water on his head.

1185
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:52,880
But I think it's in one of them 
countries where they don't have 

1186
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:56,680
a lot of fresh water. 
I thought I was going mad about 

1187
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:58,360
it. 
He was just like, wow, it's just

1188
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:05,000
cooling down. 
And the last question, unless 

1189
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:09,160
Mike has any more after this, 
what is next for you running 

1190
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:13,480
wise? 
So I was going to do, I said 

1191
01:10:13,480 --> 01:10:17,800
this before, I was going to do 
Ultra Trail Snowdonia in May and

1192
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:24,320
then I was going to go and do 
either the lead Swish Peaks 360 

1193
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:28,440
again or I was going to do the 
tour the 3:30. 

1194
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:33,840
But I've been thinking, probably
inspired by when I went and 

1195
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:40,160
helped James the other week, I'm
now going to do a Bob Graham in 

1196
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,760
Easter time, give or take a half
a month either way. 

1197
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:50,400
So springtime, Bob Graham 
Lakeland 50 in July. 

1198
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:53,400
I've always had that. 
And I think it's just a good 

1199
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:54,880
race to keep in the middle of 
the year. 

1200
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:57,960
It's super runnable. 
There's hiking sections in it 

1201
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:03,320
where you know you'll need to 
power hike, but the for the 

1202
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,880
majority of it you're running 
and you can run at a good, good 

1203
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:08,040
pace. 
That's my that's my weakness 

1204
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:11,960
running, actually running. 
I'm running a decent effort if 

1205
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:13,280
you get me, like a good steady 
effort. 

1206
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:18,160
If I could increase just my, if 
I could just increase my easy 

1207
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:21,360
run pace ever so slightly, which
is what I've been doing and it 

1208
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:23,520
paid off last week. 
I was a bit faster than what I 

1209
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:26,040
than what I have been. 
So I need to keep working on 

1210
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:27,240
that. 
So I think by keeping Lakeland 

1211
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:32,400
50 in, that'll be a good chance 
or Bob Graham, lots of hiking, 

1212
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:36,400
lots of elevation, bits of 
running, then Lakeland 50 more 

1213
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:38,720
running. 
Then I'm thinking of going doing

1214
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:43,200
another Steve Parr round 
probably end of September or 

1215
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:44,520
when I've recovered from 
Lakeland. 

1216
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,760
Bats are the fast hiking again, 
lots of elevation, bits of 

1217
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,400
running. 
I'd like to do the power round 

1218
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,240
anticlockwise this time because 
I did the other one clockwise. 

1219
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:58,240
So let's do the anticlockwise 
power round. 

1220
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:02,080
And then all that would have 
been sort of like geared towards

1221
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:06,840
prepping for Spine 2027 because 
in the spine you are hiking and 

1222
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:11,520
running, the hills are not as 
big as the late district hills. 

1223
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:12,680
You know, they're not as 
aggressive. 

1224
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,120
And you know, in a Bob Graham 
and a steep power round the 

1225
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,440
elevations massive. 
It's a lot of up and down, not 

1226
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:20,120
much flat running, which is why 
I try to keep Lakeland 

1227
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:22,680
sandwiched in between them so 
that I don't just get good at 

1228
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:25,200
just hiking. 
I can kind of transition between

1229
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:28,480
hiking and running. 
So if you think of my plan, Bob 

1230
01:12:28,480 --> 01:12:32,240
Graham hiking, bits of running, 
lots of elevation, Lakeland bit 

1231
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,480
of elevation, but more running 
power round again, like a Bob 

1232
01:12:35,480 --> 01:12:39,800
Graham, lots of hiking, bits of 
running, build a good strong set

1233
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:42,520
of legs. 
And then after summer, then just

1234
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,720
just put it all in for the spine
2027. 

1235
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:49,520
Then full spine and do more 
flatter running on rolling trail

1236
01:12:50,160 --> 01:12:52,000
with bits of hiking in with a 
heavy background. 

1237
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,480
And I think that'd be a good 
prep for them, them challenges 

1238
01:12:55,480 --> 01:12:57,120
and like 50. 
I think that would be good 

1239
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:00,720
training for a January 2027 
spine. 

1240
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:04,840
Full spine. 
I just have one more question 

1241
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,600
off of the back of that. 
When you mentioned those rounds 

1242
01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:12,520
for someone like myself that 
hasn't done many hills or rounds

1243
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:17,280
and just want to get more 
elevation and trails into the 

1244
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,840
plan. 
I personally have alls what's 20

1245
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,600
coming up? 
And it's I'm slightly nervous 

1246
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:25,640
about it. 
Have you got any advice that you

1247
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:29,400
could give to us runners that 
just want to get in the hills 

1248
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:32,240
more? 
But when we're out, I actually 

1249
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:34,960
personally feel when I'm going 
up the hills I'm like, Oh my 

1250
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:37,560
God, I'm dying. 
How am I going to manage this? 

1251
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:41,400
Is there any advice you could 
give to us for getting by that? 

1252
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:46,800
Yeah. 
I would say the elevation itself

1253
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:50,560
is what you would call like say 
specificity of training to get 

1254
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,840
better at that, you can do 
specific training like do more 

1255
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:56,360
hill work and that will help you
to improve on that. 

1256
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:00,240
Well, you need to kind of 
remember as well that fitness 

1257
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:02,640
trunks everything. 
So the fitter you are, the 

1258
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:04,560
faster you'll be able to get up 
that hill. 

1259
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:07,920
So doing interval training would
be good. 

1260
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,600
You can do it, you can do it 
flat or you can do it uphill. 

1261
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:14,200
If you do it uphill, not only 
are you training your legs 

1262
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:16,880
muscular to be able to, you 
know, cope with the demands of 

1263
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:20,400
running uphill, but you also, if
you run fast and hard up a hill,

1264
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:23,400
you're going to match your heart
rate out and get some good, you 

1265
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:27,320
know, cardiovascular like 
aerobic, sort of like training 

1266
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:31,120
with that. 
So mix up your training between,

1267
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:35,680
you know, do some interval work 
to get fitter and then do some 

1268
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,240
specific work like hill 
training. 

1269
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:42,400
If you live in an area that's 
quite Glasgow, for example, 

1270
01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:46,400
Monday to Friday you might have 
a job what you will do and you 

1271
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:48,120
might not be able to get to the 
hills that much. 

1272
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:52,520
Joining the gym, doing some 
strength work would be good and 

1273
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:55,400
then also doing some Stairmaster
sessions maybe and some 

1274
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:59,880
treadmill incline sessions. 
You could incorporate that in 

1275
01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:03,240
during the week so that you're 
not only do it, most people are 

1276
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:04,800
time crunched. 
They can only do that on a 

1277
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:08,760
weekend and if you've got 
families, they can't often get 

1278
01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:10,800
to the hills as much as they'd 
like to do that if you've got 

1279
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,320
little ones. 
So they're again, yes, it comes 

1280
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:15,800
to the weekend and they can do 
that, but if they can't get away

1281
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,600
because they've got commitments,
then they really are stuck. 

1282
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:22,400
So get to the hills as much as 
you can to get that in the legs.

1283
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:25,680
But if you're struggling, the 
only other thing you can do is 

1284
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:29,480
get on the treadmill, set it at 
a really steep incline, power 

1285
01:15:29,480 --> 01:15:33,320
hiking for long, you know, 30 to
60 minute efforts with a heavy 

1286
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:36,800
pack on your back. 
That can be helpful. 

1287
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:38,880
And then that helps with 
conditioning. 

1288
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,280
And then if you're in the race, 
if you've gone a bit heavier 

1289
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,960
with your pack and then you 
reduce the weight and then your 

1290
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,000
race packs a little bit lighter.
Let's say you're doing Lakeland 

1291
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:52,800
50 for example, you pack might 
be for 3 to 4 kilograms with 

1292
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:54,520
food and water. 
If it's a good weather there, 

1293
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:56,600
then you're not often to carry 
lots of extra kit. 

1294
01:15:57,200 --> 01:16:00,960
If you can train with a 6 to 8 
to 10K pack on your back and 

1295
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:03,560
build it up over time, that's 
going to become normal to you 

1296
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,160
when you're back. 
And then when you start doing 

1297
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:10,400
your long runs with the lighter,
well, you do your long runs with

1298
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:14,560
still a slightly heavier pack on
your back, I would do anyway. 

1299
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:17,280
And then when you get to race 
day, once you go to Raceway and 

1300
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,600
it's nice and light you, you're 
not going to feel that pack on 

1301
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:21,560
your back. 
Whereas somebody that's not 

1302
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:23,200
really took that into 
consideration when they've 

1303
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:26,000
filled the pack up with 
everything, they're like, oh, 

1304
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:28,240
bloody yellow, didn't realise me
race pack is going to be this 

1305
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:30,280
heavy. 
So that's a good one. 

1306
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:33,640
But start doing that on your 
uphill hiking sessions on the 

1307
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:34,880
treadmill if you're going to do 
them. 

1308
01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:37,200
And then same on the Stairmaster
as well. 

1309
01:16:38,120 --> 01:16:41,680
Stairmaster's a great tool for 
somebody who wants to get better

1310
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:43,880
in the hills, but they don't, 
they don't have hills on the 

1311
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,840
doorstep. 
Does that make sense? 

1312
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:50,320
It does, thank you. 
The Stairmaster looks torture. 

1313
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:54,920
Yeah, it's tough. 
And the only thing you don't, 

1314
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,280
it's a downhill element then, 
which is annoying because you 

1315
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:00,840
know, you, you need to condition
your quads really for running 

1316
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:05,120
downhill for long durations. 
But if you've got your back to 

1317
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:07,000
the wall and that's all you can 
do, it's better than nothing, 

1318
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:10,720
yeah. 
Just looking up the the very 

1319
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:16,200
first question for you said that
you'd lost a lot of weight to a 

1320
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:19,400
weighted backpack. 
Have you ever tried putting on a

1321
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:22,320
backpack that weighs the same 
amount as the weight that you 

1322
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:25,920
lost? 
Yeah, no, well, I might have 

1323
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:30,200
done not intentionally. 
So I have done some guiding work

1324
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:35,360
and when I've done myself 
somewhere ML stuff, I did have a

1325
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:38,640
heavy pack on with like a 10 
sleeping bag food, like for a 

1326
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:41,520
three day expedition. 
That pack probably weighed 

1327
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:49,000
about, yeah, close to 20 kilos. 
I know you're getting that. 

1328
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,800
I've not actually done that. 
But when I've just put a 10K 

1329
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,800
weight vest on training for the 
spine, I can't believe the extra

1330
01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:59,440
strain that puts on your torso 
and your limbs and your joints, 

1331
01:17:59,440 --> 01:18:04,880
tendons, ligaments. 
So I can only imagine what kind 

1332
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:07,160
of strain I was putting on my 
body when I was at that 

1333
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:09,800
heavyweight. 
It's crazy, Yeah. 

1334
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,840
I've got to apologize to 
Howard's clients now because 

1335
01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:16,120
that's the session that they're 
going to be getting next week. 

1336
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,080
Well, when I've got quite a few 
training for Auto Trail 

1337
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:22,720
Snowdonia. 
So now we've got through 

1338
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:27,080
Christmas and, you know, we're 
getting towards, yeah, getting 

1339
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:29,520
into the specific stuff they're 
all going to be doing. 

1340
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,920
Hike, hiking hill reps with 
weight on the back. 

1341
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:38,400
A good one is, and it's been 
around for a few years is but 

1342
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:41,960
Tom Evans did a little bit with 
the rocks in his backpack. 

1343
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:45,240
But another one could be just 
put water in your backpack, 

1344
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:48,160
bottles of water, get all your 
weight in water. 

1345
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:51,120
Start doing your hiking hill 
reps at the bottom near a river.

1346
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:54,240
You feel obviously you'll fill 
your bottles up at home because 

1347
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:56,320
it's faster. 
Your pack will be preloaded with

1348
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,040
all that water. 
You might hike to the top of 

1349
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:02,200
say, skidder, for example, or 
hell, villain, get to the top, 

1350
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:05,480
tip all the water out, run down 
back to the river at the bottom,

1351
01:19:05,480 --> 01:19:07,880
fill them all up again fast, 
like up again. 

1352
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:12,880
And it just saves ruining your, 
your joints by having like 10 to

1353
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:15,480
50, you know, 10 kilograms of 
water weight smashing through 

1354
01:19:15,480 --> 01:19:17,400
your knees when it's not always 
necessary. 

1355
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:21,720
Yeah. 
Right, I think that brings us to

1356
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:25,440
the end of our question set. 
So it just from me. 

1357
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:27,960
Thank you Howard from for coming
on. 

1358
01:19:28,440 --> 01:19:31,560
Thank you Nikki for being Nikki 
and it's goodbye for me. 

1359
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:33,640
Thank you for coming on. 
How about? 

1360
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:35,960
No thanks for having me, it's 
been good.