Good evening and welcome to another episode of Run Till
You're Done. For this episode we are joined
by an ultra runner not just known for chasing his own
limits, but for helping others push past theirs.
He's very well known for assisting on many fastest known
time. He's a coach and has a massive
passion for the hills. Welcome to the show, Howard
Drake up. Hey, guys, You all right?
Welcome, Howard. Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, no good. Good to be here.
So the first question that we usually ask all of our guests as
how did you first get into running?
First of all, I used it as like I was obese from all the way
through high school. So I first use it as a bit of a
way to lose some weight. Really.
That would have been about about 1617.
And so I dabbled in a bit of jogging just just to shift a
couple of pounds. So I kind of got into running
them, but it was very on and off.
And then aged around 2930, I used it for mental health
issues. I had a big nervous breakdown
and yeah, I just started running a hell of a lot more during that
period and it really kind of like sorted me out.
And then running competitively, I would have got into that
around about 34. So simple answer would have been
around about 16-17. And then as the years went by, I
started taking it a little bit more seriously.
What? What kind of weight are we
talking about? Oh, I was 19 stone.
Seriously big. Yeah, I was a big a big lad.
And for those watching the video, you're obviously not 19
stone now. Oh.
I so around about over the course of 12 months, I dropped
from 19 stone down to around about 13.
And then over the years I've crept up to maybe about 15 stone
again. But I used to lift heavy weights
and I used to be into the gym. And then as I got into the
running a little bit more, I kind of backed off of the
weights and obviously because the exercise I had just wasn't
good for that really. So then I trimmed down.
I'm probably around about working kilograms now.
So I'm still quite heavy for a runner.
I'm anywhere between 86 on a white day to around about 90
kilos generally when I'm not trying to be that little bit
lighter if I've got a competition coming up, but I can
be anywhere between 86 kilos and 93.
I come back from the cruise at Christmas and I'd probably end
up to 93. So yeah, I don't know what that
is in stones, but I used to work in stones when I was younger, so
I knew I was 19 stone, but I don't know what that is in
kilograms. But yeah, now I work in kilos,
so. Everybody works in kilos now.
Yeah, thank you for. Sharing about saying that you
had a nervous breakdown. My question following on from
that is when you first started the running and you were saying
about being obese, did you find when you ran that helped with
your mental health at that point?
And is that what helped you through when you started getting
into it a bit more seriously? It's a funny one.
I would say when I when I was obese, I got into, I didn't
really, even though I was unhappy with how I looked and
stuff, I wouldn't say I had any, no mental health issues then.
So I mainly ran just for one sole reason.
That was just because I was looking at the scales and seeing
the weight coming off and it was coming off fast.
So I did it for her. I didn't do it for why I do it
these days. It was more like a thing I had
to do then and I probably didn't really enjoy it.
If I cast my mind back, it was just, I did it because it was,
it was. I didn't have to go to the gym
to do it and it and it was making the weight come off.
And I can't remember what the second part of the question was.
It was just did you? I think what I was getting at
was like, why the running and why not the gym At first, you
know of all the the activities that you could do.
A lot of people do like or hate running, but they'll do like
dance classes or go to the gym and nowadays high rocks.
Yeah, I think because of where I lived, it was a small village in
the in the Pennines. We just had, where I used to
live on the back doorstep, we just used to have a little
nature reserve and I'd always been outdoors even as a kid.
I just love playing out in, you know, in the bushes and trees,
messing around. And and I think I just saw that
as the I was going to the gym as well and I was doing cardio.
But yeah, maybe there was some sort of subconscious underlying,
you know, therapy in that as well.
Maybe like I just said a minute ago that there wasn't anything.
Well, certainly no mental health issues, but yeah, maybe I
subconsciously enjoyed it as well.
And it was just easier to do it. I just stepped out of my door
and I was on some nice trails. So I think that's why I did it.
And both for weight loss and your mental health issues, did
you seek guidance in that? Did you get somebody's help or
did you think this is how I'm going to do it?
Yeah, I just did it myself. I didn't really.
I probably did it the wrong way. If I could do it now, I would do
it a bit more controlled. But I was just probably, well, I
was, I really cut back on my, I starved myself a little bit too
much. The weight came off fast, but it
was because I was probably doing extreme things, not eating
enough really. But it, it got me to where I
wanted to get to. But yeah, I did it all myself.
And when you did first start, was it just around the village
on the roads, or did you go Gung Ho St. into the hills?
Bit of both. Bit of the trails, bit on the
road as well. I didn't mind getting out on the
pavements. I'd not really.
I didn't really know about trail running properly at that point
and the places I could go to. So yeah, it was probably a
mixture of both, but the trails would have been super flat
manicure trail. Nothing like you know what I'm
into now. And speaking about the stuff,
stuff you're into now, obviously that that what you just
described was the start of your journey, but what was the first
race that you did? The first race that I did,
believe it or not, was Dent Half Marathon, which is like a road
race near Setba if you know what dense is.
Have you heard of that one Dent 1/2 marathon?
It's actually about 40 miles. I I joined a road running club.
Eventually it was part of their clubs championship races.
So I got on the coach and went to Dent.
So that was the first road race I ever did.
The first ultra would have been the old and way ultra that's not
going anymore. That was a really nice route,
about 40 miles around. Have you ever been to Oldham?
I was born. You know where it is you are,
Yeah. I was born.
In Yeah, it's quite close. Dove Stones Reservoir is.
Yeah. Yeah, all the edges up near
there, it was like a huge loop around my area there.
It was really good. So yeah, first race was a road
race and they also did a few park runs.
I know they're not really races, but I I was treating them as
races. They're a race to yourself.
If you want to do that, just don't tell the organizers.
Yeah. I've said in the past if I have
a one one, it's definitely a race.
Yes, a park runs and then half first races.
What kind of time were you getting at Park Run and compare
that to now? Yeah, I was probably faster back
then because a lot of my training would have been Rd.
based and speed. So and, and you know, to to the,
you know, good standards, very average 5K time, about 20
minutes, 20 minutes, something I think I got from my first park
run, 2024 yard or something like that.
Yeah. Not very fast really, but yeah.
As you said, you're just racing against yourself, so it's as
fast as it needed to be at the time.
Yeah, and training wasn't really training back then, you know,
like I would do it now if I wanted to get A5 KPB.
It was more just I was doing lots of volume, long slow miles
with, I don't know, some I weren't even doing intervals,
but I would do some, some some more like faster, steadier
running. But it was all just long plugs
really. So not not too bad.
An Oldham Ultra, How far the distance was that for your first
ultra? It was around about 40 miles.
So it's it wasn't even a just, it's just an ultra.
That's quite a big distance, isn't it, for your first one?
It was a fair size one, yeah, and quite hilly as well.
I mean, not hilly to the Lake District standard, but they've
been around about a couple of 1000 meters, I'm guessing.
So yeah, quite, quite a tough first ultra.
And it sounds as though that you had quite a lot of build up
between when you first started your first race, your first
ultra. If you had to describe a moment
when you first realized that this is what you do now, and
that's you are a runner, when did that realization dawn on
you? I would say when I was going
through the mental health stuff, when I started getting out, then
it was then that I realized that, like, I'd really gotten
into it. I was just going out.
Everything was feeling good. I wanted to do a lot more of it.
Yeah. I started venturing up into the
Lake District a little bit as well.
And then, yeah, I think it just took off from there, really.
And nowadays you're more concentrating on trail running,
as everybody should be. But do you still get out in the
roads? Do you still do any sort of Rd.
races or anything? I haven't been doing, but I've
been chatting to my coach Tim Pigger and he reckons I should
do it like a train for a 10K race for the next month or two.
You know, nothing crazy but just do a little bit of, you know,
some faster, faster training and, and you know, get a new 10
KPB. So that's been discussed.
But other than that, no, I haven't done any races.
But training wise I don't mind. You know, if I need to get a run
done and I'm in a rush, I don't mind putting my, you know, my
Rd. shoes on and doing, you know, run around Kendall.
What I have found is, and I try not to do it now is because
because I've been in the hills so much that when I do run
locally in the in the town, it, the fumes.
It absolutely stinks. I'm not used to it.
And where, where I've lived over the last five or six years as
well, they've been little tiny villages.
Kendall's the busiest. I've had it in, in in a long
time. And I can't get over how
polluted the the air is when you're when you're jogging.
So I try to avoid it. I, I do do some flatter stuff,
but I love it on the canal, Lancaster Canal on the other
end, the candle is great. There's no styles, no gates.
It's flat and straight. You can do about 10 to 15 K on
it without no, no interruptions. And you always see Josh Wade on
there as well. Back when I was a student, like
I went to uni in Aberdeen and I never noticed the pollution as
you said. But when I went home in this
countryside, it was then that you almost I almost felt like it
was not missing the pollution. But it's like I can breathe.
What's going on? Yeah, it's weird, isn't it?
It really is like becoming a thing, isn't it?
Like it's more apparent these days.
You can really notice when you're in in these areas and
when you're not. Yes, see.
For me. I think that would be bizarre
because I'm Glasgow based so even like getting out so
temporary getting out into fresh air.
Yeah, you'll almost feel strange when you're in the clean air,
won't you? Exactly.
Have you ever done a road marathon?
Official one. Yeah, I've done a couple many
years ago. So the first marathon I would
have done was Manchester Marathon.
It was the ASICS back then. I think I read somewhere a
couple of years after they scrapped that one because the
the distance was a little bit out.
So maybe that doesn't count anymore.
I'm not sure. But that was my first marathon.
I then did Liverpool Rock'n'roll Marathon.
That was a good one that I think that would be my PB.
And even then it's not that fast.
I don't think 3 hours, 48 or something like that.
I think if I was to go back and do a road marathon now, I could
probably, if I trained for it properly.
I'd like to hope to get around, I don't know, some 3-15, maybe 3
hours of push. But yeah, so I did that and then
I did. Sorry, I'm off on a tangent.
Then Snowdonia, the Brooks Snowdonia marathon that was.
That was great. I'm laughing because when you
say the marathon time, it's not that fast.
It was 3. And I'm like, no, no, no, no,
no. Let's let's just stop right
there. That's that's fast.
Maybe that's offensive, isn't it?
I didn't really. It's.
Not offensive, it just blows my mind.
Like like we said about the park run is what you're you're racing
against yourself is what you consider fast for yourself.
So and I'm just going to say you never have to apologize for good
often a tangent. We're here to talk about
anything you want, so I. Shall do it again.
And aside from like your own running, you're really well
known for showing up and helping people on the FKTS.
What draws you to being in that role for helping someone else
shine on the hills? Yeah, it's quite exciting,
rewarding. It's good fun, it's good
training. Like, you know, these
challenges, you're often out for 5-10 hours at a time.
You normally go in a little bit slower than normal with a big
heavy pack on your back. But it's all good training and
it's just really rewarding, you know, like to see them achieve
something that they put so much hard work into.
And then when they pull it off at the end, it's it's just nice
to know that your health can't contribute to that.
And you never know when you might need it back as well.
So it's always nice to, it's always nice to be, you know,
it's nice to be nice. It definitely is one of our
future guests. Ross just did the spine at the
weekend there and I've got a favorite to call for a race in a
few months time. So just warning you, Ross.
And, and now you've announced it on the podcast, He can't say no.
But yeah, when you're out helping these people, what do
you look for when the sort of physical things that they're
doing, how how do you approach that and helping them
emotionally? Do you just really balance up
for when somebody needs to suck it up and get on with it, or do
they need a bit? Of a hug.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a tricky 1.
And I guess if, if you've ever been the person in the driving
seat on these challenges, like you've been that person, it does
make it a little bit easier. You can almost relate to what
they're going through and stuff like that.
So for example, John Kelly, when I helped him out on his Pennine
Way record-breaking attempts, it was a final leg over the
Cheviots and he was literally on the line.
He was literally he had about 3 or 4 minutes before he was going
to be, it was, it was not going to get it.
So on that regardless of how he was feeling, we just had to give
him some tough love. It was like we just bullied him
over the over the achievements like we there was no other
alternative. So when you're when you're in
that kind of a predicament, you need to give them the tough
love. Yeah, it's quite a, it's quite a
like a, a big the question you asked, it can be given, I can
give quite a few answers for it. So like.
Well, we won them all. Yeah, no, my mind's kind of like
gone a little bit blank. I do this all the time.
Like you ask a question and I'm thinking, what was the initial
question? So I was going to say like
initially you can see when they are just from like how they are
acting on the round. You know, if they're gone quiet,
you ask him if they're all right.
Are you doing the OK, bud? Do you need anything that
normally sparks a bit of conversation?
If they're chatting away and the chirpy, it's probably just a
case of reminding them that they need to keep eating and drinking
because that's what the buggers for not eating and drinking.
Like if they can get away with it, they they don't want it, but
they need to because if they don't, they're going to bonk or
they're going to stop moving and they've just eaten for like the
God past, God knows how many hours before you've got to them.
So they're maxed out. They don't want to eat, but they
need to, and that's quite a hard job.
So yeah, it it, you just got a look at how the signs that
they're giving off and then just be that person that's going to
be fun for them and, and keep them going and be motivating and
encouraging and just get them to the end.
But yeah, it's just reading into them really, and just just
looking at what's going on and not getting into a bit of a
Daydream yourself. And just keep your eye on the
task that you're there for, which is to get them to the end
and make sure I think you do a good job really are.
There any FKTS that stand out for you as being support?
Was there anybody on rounds that you didn't think we're going to
finish and they managed that? Like even like, not Even so much
FKTS, but even if you're assisting someone on their own
and they managed to complete that, is there anything that
stuck out for you? No, I don't think so.
I think I think all the rounds have been on.
Unfortunately it doesn't always end this way, but all the ones
I've been on, they've always, they've always managed to be
successful. I'm just trying to think if I'm
wrong in saying that. There has been Andy Berry when I
helped him on his, he was going for the record on a Bob Graham
quite a few years ago, the same year as when Kim Collision broke
it, the boss off at the same time.
He got middle of leg 2 and he just wasn't having a good day.
Like he said, his intent was to break the record and as soon as
he realized that he wasn't going to break the record, he he just
literally said there's he could continue and he could do the
full thing and he would have been fine.
He would have got a good time, but I think he knew that he
wasn't going to get the record. So that round didn't go well.
I forgot the question again. I know you said you was asking
me about is there any rounds that didn't?
Is there any rounds that stick out in your mind that were
really good for you when you supported someone?
Yeah, sorry. So I've completely got the
question on that. That's OK.
Yeah, John Kelly's was good. I mean, I've, I've already
mentioned that one. That was good.
They've all been good. Like John Kelly's was good
because it was just like we was on that final leg and it was
like on the line and he really dug deep and we got him in and
he was like 15 minutes ahead in the end or something like that.
So John Kelly's was really good. I've helped Sabrina Virgie a few
times. Hers were great just in the
sense that, you know, they were just big FKTS.
You know, the Wayne Wrights rounds, they don't just go on
for 24 to 48 hours. It's full.
It's a full week of a job practically.
And I think she's had quite a few goals now and I have helped
out on more than one of them. I think I've helped out on 2 and
I can't, can't remember which one it was.
It might have been the first one, but I literally helped
nearly every day. So it was dead exciting, you
know, just like every day. I just kind of wasn't even meant
to be on that leg and I'd go home, go to bed.
He wake up in the morning and just be like, that's where the
tracker is. I can probably do that little
bit and then I go out again. So that that that was good fun
and it was good when she got to the end as well.
It's just good when you see them get to the end and and and
they've finished. James Gibson helped James on his
double winter Bob Graham couple of weeks ago.
I'm probably going to say that was up there with John Kelly's
as well. Completely, completely different
round. I think with James is, it was so
good because that was my favorite kind of running in my
favorite kind of scenery. We did legs.
It would have been like 3 if he was doing a singular clockwise
Bob Graham, but it was like something like 7.
I think it was because he's done the double.
So it was going from Dunmail Rays over to Wellsdale.
Now I love that area. I love that kind of running.
It's just technical and rocky and rugged and it was all I see.
So it was like everything was glistening.
It was like having diamonds on the floor running on diamonds.
It were literally all sparkly. Clouds were blowing in and out.
The sunshine was out. We was above the clouds at
times. Sunset over was over West Water
and he said no more. You can just imagine it can't.
It was just like one of the best running days ever.
The conditions were just brilliant.
And then to be helping somebody out do that and then know that
they've succeeded, that was probably up there with one of
the best supports I've done. Yeah, for sure.
They're the ones that you've sort of an achievement for
helping them, but what out of any of them do you think that
they were on the brink? You don't know if they were
going to make it, but you think that you made the difference.
Is there any? Where I kind of really help
them. Yeah, I would say John Kelly's
for sure. I mean, I took a pizza for
myself. I didn't take any sports
nutrition, and that was my food for the night.
I was meant to give John the odd slice, but he took a shine to
it. He couldn't eat anything and he
practically ate my whole pizza. So without the pizza, he might
not have made it. So, you know, there's that.
And we just had to keep really pushing him.
Like, you know, he was in a lot of pain, not because of an
injury as such, but just from pushing hard.
He was still running and just the way we just the way we did
it and you know, we all made a conscious effort to turn our
heads. So much is on really bright just
to keep him awake and just the words we were saying to him
would come on John properly. She's like going come on John.
Very bit cringy really and a bit embarrassing.
I felt a bit bad after like we wasn't shouting at him like
nastily, but we were going come on John, you can do it, you can
do it. We just really have to beast him
over the TV's. So I would say, yeah, that is
kind of true. Like if he'd have had he if he
didn't have was there, he'd have been so tempted to just take it
easy. People, that's what people need
though. And that's it's kind of a nice
segue on to the next question because we've got wrote down
what is the biggest misconception that people have
about FKTS and the support that goes into them.
Probably lots of things really. I mean, I have to think about
this question from a while before I come on the call, but I
would say just how much hard work goes into a singular
challenge. It's a year, sometimes two years
depending on how big it is. It could even be 6 months, you
know, if it's something smaller. But like the amount of effort
and hard work that goes in from the individual running it, the
investment they make physically, mentally and emotionally before
they set off, not to mention what they do on the in, in the
challenge. And then you've got the road
support that needs to make sure that the logistics are going
well, people dropping out, finding somebody else.
It always happens and nobody does it on purpose, but you
know, it does happen. So making sure that they're
there and you know, they get no sleepy.
I've, I've helped people out before, you know, just on the
road support and you come back from that and you're knackered,
you know, for a couple of days. So there's all the effort that
goes into that. And then you've got the team on
the hill there put a lot of effort in.
There's normally two to three people at a time with them and
they're always constantly like rotating with other people.
So it's a massive, massive like organise it like an organising
thing. And I think just for people that
don't really know too much about it, they probably don't realise
how much has gone into that behind the scenes, That could be
one of the biggest misconceptions.
One could be a lot of people say to me like how, how can you help
somebody break something that you'd say or something like
that. Maybe like more often than more
often than not, you'll have the current record holder helping
somebody out who's trying to break their record and they're
smiling and laughing and they're glad to see them break it.
So people might be a bit like, how does that work?
But it's not like that in trail running, is it?
It's more like everyone's trying to push the boundaries and see
what's what, what's you know what, what can be done, what's
the limits. Or that could be one thing.
I think what you're saying. There.
It's a sort of they're achieving something like you help a lot of
people, you're achieving something by them succeeding.
So the current record holder, they are succeeding by breaking
their own record. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty crazy,
but yeah, it's right, Yeah. So you you mentioned that John
Kelly is a bit of a pizza fan. What about yourself during races
or adventures that you do? What kind of fuel do you have
other than pizza? So far, say like a long run,
it'll be generally some sort of like it's always carbohydrate
for me, mainly if it's under under 5 hours, under 10 hours of
a training run. But it would be more things like
say Jelly babies or like Nutrigrain bars, squashes sugar,
basically a lot of sugar, but it's normally stuff you can buy
from a shop, stuff that's not that expensive because race,
race nutrition is expensive, right?
And if you're if you if you're on that all year round when you
do your vases, you're not going to be able to stay on that for
long durations because you've maxed it out in training.
So I'll tend to use like, yeah, real food if you like, but
you're still mainly carbohydrated based during
training runs. If they're really longs, say for
example, if I did the spine race, there will be a lot more
like substantial real food in their sandwiches, wraps, bits of
everything really, probably a little bit less sugar.
This will be some sugar in it, but not not highly concentrated
sugar just because I would go off it over a number of days.
And then in racing and again, it all boils down to how long the
race is. But just say for example,
anything under 20 hours, maybe even longer than that auto trail
Snowdonia, that took me 30 odd hours.
And I think I literally lift off gels and carve drink on that
one. It's hard to do, but it's
doable. So yeah, general rule of thumb
for me is racing sports nutrition.
And sorry, I'll just put my phone on silent.
And if it's not racing, real food.
And what gels did you take during your TS?
What works for you? Yeah.
So I was on the precision fuel and hydration products.
I was on the floor gels. So you can get.
Do you know what they are? Yeah, I, I, we, we obviously do
because we're experts in these sort of things, honestly.
But for the listeners, why don't we explain it?
Yeah. So instead of using like a
singular gel in a singular individual wrapper, what you
want to do and put in your mouth, you can squeeze out one
big massive gel into like a squishy flask, a soft flask that
you would normally put water in in your in your in your front of
your pack. You make one of them literally
into a humongous gel so that you're not, you're not opening
like this would be 1030g gels, but you have it all in an
individual flask and you just squeeze little bits into your
mouth. And if you train it, you can
almost over a couple of runs, you can figure out what 30 grams
is. I know that like 3-3 socks of
what I call a sock, that's me 30 grams done.
And it's literally to the millimetre.
Honestly with I've practiced it that much.
So I was using the floor gels, the chews, I was using the carb
mix. Whenever I hit my crew, rather
than add additional weight to my pack when I was already putting
weight into it in the form of water, I thought, why not guys?
90 grams of carbs in with my liquids as well, just to make my
pack a little bit lighter. So I was on carbohydrate mix.
So that's what I was on in between the checkpoints.
And then when I would hit the checkpoints, then if there was
something there that I fancied, like a bit of a bagel or
something like that, quite like a bagel, just a plain bagel,
nothing on it. Rice Krispies squares, bars
quite like them. So yeah, it's a bit of a lie.
I was on bits of real food when I got to places I could have
real food. But in between the checkpoints I
will just be on sports nutrition.
And what's the most ridiculous thing that you've eaten during
an adventure or a race because it's the only thing that you
could manage in stomach? So for this question I couldn't
really think of I've got one of them brains that can just eat
anything. It's the obese kidding me.
I can just eat anything whenever I want to eat.
But the most ridiculous thing is when I did the Spine Challenge
of South in 2019, it might have been on the way back from kit
check. I went to McDonald's through the
drive through, ordered a couple of double cheeseburgers, put
them underneath my kit box that was really heavy so they were
squished to like frisbees. I put one in my Hebden Bridge
drop bag and one in the ones to go to Malantown and both of them
checkpoints had a cold double cheeseburger from Mackie's.
That would have been quite good for salt though, would it not?
Gorgeous. Yeah, it was really nice.
A cold ketchup as well, and the cold cheese.
It was really nice. Something that I don't think
I've said for many years. What I used to say was I've got
a fat person living inside me because like you.
I. Can just eat anything, right?
Next question. This might be somebody else's
achievement that you feel personally you've achieved
through it, or it might be something you've done, but what
is your biggest running achievement?
Oh, biggest running achievement. I've not looked at it from that
angle, but yeah, like, you know, helping other people out there's
even though that's their achievement, it's a good
achievement of yours helping out.
So yeah, the James Gibson one the other week was good
achievement from, you know, being a good person and helping
them achieve their one of their successes.
But my own personal best running achievement was probably when I
did. Have you heard of the Steve
Power Round? But I'm not sure what it is.
Yeah, so it's it's been around for a long time, but it's it's
getting more and more popular. It's the all the way right.
It's in around above 2500 feet. It's around about 114 miles long
and around about 14,000 meters. Starts and finishes at the Moot
Hall. Well, you can, you don't have to
as long as you, you can start anywhere on the route as long as
you visit the moot hall. I started at the moot Hall and I
went clockwise. So I think it was 2021.
I was meant to be doing ultra trail Snowdonia 100 mile race.
And then a week before the race, we all got an e-mail saying due
to COVID, because this was when COVID was brand new, it got
cancelled, unfortunately. So I was like, really fit and
didn't have anything to go and do now.
So I put it on to, I think it was Instagram.
I just said, anybody know what I can do?
And a guy called Paul Wilson messaged me back and said do a
Steve Parr round. He sent me the details, sent me
the route and the rules and stuff like that because I'd
never heard of it. And yeah, that week I got a crew
together, didn't manage to go on recce any of it, just kind of
went in blind and run Steve Pass original route.
And yeah, I broke the record on it and that's about 20 minutes
off. It was very close.
And I'll say yeah, that's probably my my own personal
biggest achievement, breaking that record.
It's subsequently been broken many times since then, but.
But you held it, and that's for Mars.
Yeah, yeah, I held it for a little while.
And then another one that springs to mind as well is
finishing the Swiss Peaks 360, if you've heard of that one that
was really enjoyed that race. It was just literally 4 days,
yeah, four days running across Switzerland in the mountains.
And what's not to love about that?
It was spiritual, you know, just every day just flying through
the mountains, sunrise, sunset, it's just on your own.
It, it would just fab. I'd probably say that's one of
my biggest achievements as well. And Moot Hall for those that are
listening and think, oh, I've heard that before, that is in
Keswick. And that's where the Bob Graham
round starts. Yeah, it's very similar to a
Bob. The first two legs are very
similar to a Bob Graham. Even like 3 is very similar to a
Bob Graham. But instead of dropping off, you
do an out one back to cast the Cam back to Hell Valley Inn and
then from Hell Valley. And then instead of going
towards Fairfield, depending which way you do it, because you
can do it a few ways. We dropped off to say someday
then and then from say someday over towards like the Far
Eastern Fells. But yeah, it's very, it's very,
the rules are very similar to Bob Graham.
You get a crew, you have witnesses.
You have 48 hours on this one though.
It's very similar to a double Bob Graham, but just not 2 loops
of the Bob Graham. It's a bit harder.
It's not as there's not as many trods on sections with Bob.
There's a lot of trods you can follow.
It's been been going for that long.
But the power rounds a bit. Some of the some of the lines
you're taking are a lot more. There's no trod.
It's been a. 100 years. Yeah, it's much harder.
You did the harder thing, that Bob Graham thing.
That's the easy option. You did the hard one.
Maybe. Do you prefer going out and
doing the rounds like you said about the Steve Parr round when
it's not a big event, or do you prefer events?
Good question. So for years I've, that is the
only personal type challenge that I've done and I really
enjoyed it. And then ever since then I've
been roped back into, I don't know why just yet doing more
races. I plan to race this year.
And about two weeks ago I changed my mind and I've gone
from doing a big, I was going to do ultra trail Snowdonia 100
mile race. I'm, I've pulled out of that and
I'm going to do some more personal challenges instead
because I just think so, yeah, to answer your question, race is
good. But yeah, with the personal
challenges, it's still a race, but you've not got any direct
competition in the there. And then if you get me, you
know, it's just what you're doing and it and it and it can
be a bit more, a bit more pleasant, I guess mentally going
into it in if you're going to enter a big race, there's a lot
of pressure because I like the trackers and stuff like that.
I mean, well, you can have a, you'll have a tracker when you
do these personal challenges, but there's only you on the on
the route if you get me. So there's less pressure in that
sense. But I think when you're in a
race and this is how everybody else feels, it's probably just
my personal opinion. But when you're racing an event,
you know, you're racing everybody and sometimes I can
feel a bit embarrassed by how I've done.
But when you're doing a personal challenge it, even though you
can't, you could compare yourself to a leaderboard
afterwards. It's it's weird.
You kind of don't look at it. I don't look at it like that.
Whilst it's happening. There's these crashes on.
On a race day, everybody's got the same conditions, whereas on
a like personal, on a Bob Graham round sort of thing, you're the
only one racing in those specific conditions.
Do you think that's? Yeah, you can't get your ass.
You can't get your ass whopped off anybody else on that day.
It might be a better way of putting it.
You can get your ass off the weather and stuff, but you've
not got a particular person that you've either wanted to be
beating you. There's no like you can't.
You can't feel that finishing is a great achievement and the
personal challenges because you could finish a race and feel a
bit let down by your performance due to your time.
Well, not your time, but your petition certainly, if that
makes any sense. And for those listening that
aren't aware, Howard has just completed one of the Spain races
this week. We are recording on Sunday
night. Spain's just finished this
morning. Which race did you take part in?
I did the Sprint north. And how was it?
Really good, yeah, I enjoyed it. A little bit short for me,
really. Still 42 miles which is a long
way, but I'm not really known for shorter races or entering
shorter races and maybe not running fast in shorter races.
But it went really well. Finished fourth.
In the end it was close between me and 3rd but I had him in my
size and I just couldn't catch him.
It was good fun. I think it helped me get a
faster time trying to chase him down and I think it helped him
get a faster time me breathing down his neck.
But no, it was it was a great day.
Like the the weather was really nice.
It was a bit grey when we set off a bit of drizzle, but within
an hour that stopped going over the Cheviot.
So that's over my shoulder. Sky was orange and pink, nice
Bank of clouds rolling in The ground was nice.
It was like soft enough to not be rock hard, but underneath,
say maybe a couple of inches, you felt yourself bottom out
where it was still bullet hard from when it was really cold the
week before. But the rain that we'd had last
week, it just kind of softened it up a little bit.
So the Cheviots were as slow going as they could have been,
apart from when you got to the Chevy itself.
It was like knee deep snow. So that slowed us down a little
bit. But no, I, I had a good race
really. I can't complain.
I said 9 hours, I'd be really happy with it and I got 915 or
something like that. Yeah.
To say we was doing a bit more walking on the Chevy because we
were just sinking in the snow. It was really tiring.
No, I I had a good race. I'd recommend it.
It's a good introduction to anybody who's thinking about
doing one of the longer races. You have to buy all the kits.
So if you've invested that much into it in the kit for the kit,
you've got the the kit for the rest of the other races then.
So that sounds like you're going to be doing one of the other
races? Yeah, I have.
So I've done the Challenger S, I've done the Challenger N, I've
done the Sprint NI just need to do the Sprint South and the
full. I'm going to do the full next
year now I've decided. Next and you're going to.
I was. That's good though, when you say
you've got the full cat as well, because I know that that can be
a bit off putting for people even thinking about Spain.
Not only like with the training and the distance in itself, but
the catalyst is phenomenal, isn't it?
But necessary. Yeah, it's extensive.
And at some point, I've not done one for two or three years.
And yeah, you used to have to carry a stove as well, but
they're taking that out, which I think is good really, because
they're not saying you can't take a stove.
If you want to take a stove and cook yourself some food, you can
do. But for the people that aren't
doing that, at least you don't have to carry a stove now.
So that's pretty good. But yeah, there is a lot of care
and just, I think a lot of people can get overwhelmed by it
because they tend to get too engrossed in what everybody else
is doing. Well, what you should be doing
in the spine is, is if if it passes kit check and you you
want to use that, you can use that.
You know, try not to get too worried about that.
Your piece of kit isn't exactly the same as somebody else's
piece of kit. As long as it passes the
description and you can afford it, get it.
Yeah, and you said, well, first of all, the, I always think it's
funny that they call it the Sprint because 42 miles, if
you're sprinting that then good luck.
The other thing I was going to say was you, you said that you
had third in your sights. Was there anything that you
think that you could have done on the day, not, not in
training, but actually on the day that you think now I, I
could have, could have had an extra gel and I might have been
able to catch them. You're not saying that you would
have, but to make yourself better.
Yeah, I, I think I've asked myself all this and I think, I
think This is why I say I had. I'm normally quite hard on
myself if I don't have a good race.
And even though I didn't get that third position, I was a bit
gutted because in the previous races I've ever done in winter,
I've finished third. So I was really hopeful that on
a good day I might get my third in this race.
And I'd have had a third in every single winter spine going
nearly. So I kind of, yeah.
Even though I lost that, which was quite important, I still had
a really good run in my own head because my fueling went to plan.
Even if I would have had another gel, I don't think it would.
I was already on 100 grams of carbs and I wasn't running very
fast. If I'm being honest, I wasn't
like the intense, I was running pretty fast, but the intensity
at which I was running at, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't allowed
to threshold or anything like that.
I mean, I would have been at certain times, but for the most
of the race I was running in Zone 2.
So none of my few of them went well.
I mean, there's a few things I could have done.
So I've been really, really damn close to him.
So there was just before I come in to Burness, my watch was
telling me to go left. So I'd already gone past this
left turning before I realised that.
So I was like oh damn, turn around and I couldn't find this
left turn so I'm looking for it. So I thought oh I'm panicking
then because I'm like I'm bleeding time.
I'm thinking this guy behind me somewhere and this guy in front
is getting away. So run back up for about another
30 seconds, still no left turn. I'm wondering where this left
turn is. So I ran back and I just saw
this little tiny like a dog trail where dogs just run off
into and it was all like the river had bust its banks.
There was all dead trees in there, tree trunks everywhere.
It were a mess. So I thought I was really
worried that I was going to get penalized on time if I didn't
stick to the the right trail. So I started wading through all
these bloody this dead forest basically like knee deep in
river where it bust its banks. I didn't see anybody overtake
me, but the guy that was in 3rd was obviously on his way there,
but I couldn't see him. I'm assuming he didn't go this
way. I'm assuming I'm the only person
in the race that was like adamant they were going to stay
on the GPX line. And then by the time I've gotten
through to where it where it was runnable again, the path I was
on just run parallel literally with where I was.
But I know at some point because I've the, the funniest thing is
I've wrecked it. So I have wrecked this about
four to five weeks earlier and I knew there was a letter.
And so I'm thinking how the river's just really burst its
banks over the last couple of days and this is, this is you're
on the right path. Anyway, when I got to where it
was runnable again, I was on where the letter was.
I think what happened is the organisers when you plot a route
on OS maps or something, you can have it on snap if you know what
that is when you tap it and it just like, and I think they've
just snapped it and not really looked at that little particular
100 meter stretch that's will come through there.
At a glance, you look like you're on the fire Rd. but the
GPX file had pulled us off anyway.
So I waded through that. So that wasted about 3 minutes,
I'm going to guess 3 to 4 minutes and use a lot of energy
because I was like obviously if my legs really high, I was
trying to push my heart rate for Sky Eye at that point just
because I'm exerting myself trying to go fast through all
this crap. So I wasted a bit of time there
and then I sat down on a bridge for two minutes and put my
spikes on. But I think that'll save me
time. If I did not put them micro
spikes on I would have been a lot slower over the next couple
of years. So that's that's not a waste of
time. Coming off the high route.
There is 2 styles next to each other and could because it was
dark I couldn't see. There was a fence line on the
side of the other side of the wall that separated the two
styles and I just so happened to get on the wrong side of the
wall, the wall where I should have been.
I had to climb over a barbed wire fence and like a farm was
like a shoulder high wall. So that probably wasted a minute
like a Navara even then. So if I could say 4 minutes, I
think he finished about 5 or 6 minutes ahead of me.
I would have only been a minute or two behind him.
He finished six minutes ahead of me I think in total in the end.
But no other than that. Other than that, if I could have
just been a little bit more mentally fired up, really,
really like really pushed myself to the depths of like despair.
But I already felt like that in my head.
I was I was I was ready for I was ready for giving up.
In my head, I was ready for thinking just like just just let
him have it. But you know, he was so close
that it I would have been das to just throw the towel in.
So I did carry on, did carry on pushing.
I guess we were both just really up for it.
Yeah, I think you've got to think now that the result is the
result. It's what happened.
Because for all you know, he might have made exactly the same
errors. And he's thinking, well, I could
have been even further ahead of him so.
Yeah, he must have had a few errors as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And before we move on from the
spine, the last question I've got from the whole week is you
had very successful athletes and all of them completed.
Was there any bit of advice that you gave all of them the same
advice, even though that they would have been very different
athletes? I would imagine was the one
piece of consistent advice she gave across the races.
Yeah, few things. Don't get too caught up and
running too much on that first day.
I always say to them, give it a couple of days and if you still
feel like you want to, if you feel after a couple of days that
you you want to run, they go for it.
But I think a lot of them found out that after 24 hours of that,
you ain't going to be the elites.
Might be, you know, the elites might be jogging it all the way
through consistently, but most people are going to be fast
hiking it. So I said to them, yeah, don't,
don't get too caught up and running too much in them first
24 hours because I said, if you do, you have won't finish or
you'll have a dreadful second-half of the race.
I said you'd be you'd be wanting to walk and you won't be able to
walk. So that was one good bit of
advice. And I think most of them have
said that, you know that that's what they did and that's what
allowed them to finish. The other bit of advice is is
just pre warning them that in the build up to the race, you're
really excited. This is going to be one of the
best things you've ever done. You think, you think, and then
you get into the race and it's the complete opposite.
It's the worst thing you've ever done.
You're questioning your life choices.
You're thinking, what the bloody hell was I thinking?
But then it does change when you finish it.
Then it goes back to the best thing you ever did because you
finished. But during the event you're
torn. You just want to quit.
Maybe not for everybody, but for most people, there's points in
that race when you're questioning.
Have you got what it takes to finish?
I know when I did the challenge enough, I wanted to quit along
Adrian's wall as I was nearly in tears.
I was torn. I was like, I really want to
quit, but I can't quit. I just can't do it.
There's they've got this tracker on me.
There's people watching if I pull the plug, how does that
make me look? And just because it's just
because it's hard, you know, you got to keep you got to keep
going. So you need to pre warn them
that to be ready mentally that they're going to, they're going
to be faced with this and they need to, they need to have a, a
way to stay in it. Because if some people, if
they've not had that pre warning when they, when it, when that
comes to them, they can't handle it.
They're like, Oh my God, like I didn't, didn't, didn't expect
this to happen. This was supposed to be fun.
This was supposed to be nice. It was supposed to be the time
of my life. And, you know, after 12 hours
when you when you're freezing cold and wet and you're hungry
and you're not running anymore, it's, and you've got another 100
and odd mile left and you're not even 1/3 in yet and you're
tired, what do you do then? So it was pre warning them that
when they get to that point, they can't quit.
They really can't, not unless they really, you know, there's
something badly wrong like it that you know, they're in danger
or they're severely injured. But I said to them, if, if you,
if you get to 100K in and you want to quit because you're
tired, then why have you entered?
You know? Yeah, you know, you need to, you
can't quit for that. You need to, you need to have a
why basically, and you need to talk yourself back into getting
out there. So I did pre warn all of them
that you know, this is going to happen.
So that's a good one. Good selling advice.
Look after your feet, you know, just look after them feet.
You know, if you, if you, if you neglect them, then yeah, you're
not going to be able to walk on them, are you?
And then just take sleep as it comes.
I said don't factor in the sleep.
Don't rigidly tell yourself, I mean, make plans when you might
want, when you think you might want to sleep because it's just
sensible. But if you get there and you're
not tired, then don't sleep. Don't lie.
Don't lie there. Just looking at the looking at
the ceiling, if you can, if you can get another, you know, 6 to
10 hours on the trail, you know, just take your sleep as it
comes. I think that's pretty much about
it really for like same advice to everybody.
There's probably lots more, but I don't think you you guys have
got enough time. And the saying goes, do as I
say, not as I do. But did you follow that same
advice? You're obviously it wasn't a
multi day one that you were doing this time so you weren't
sleeping, but were you questioning your life choices?
Oh, absolutely, I've done it. I didn't.
So this was another reason why the the Sprint N went so well
because I didn't have any dark moments.
I really enjoyed it all the way through.
I was, I was kind of, it got tough at times, but I was never
ever we should have not entered it.
But there's been some races that I've entered.
I'm trying to think of which one.
It might have been Calderdale Way Ultra 50 mile a years ago.
I got 30 miles into that and I was like questioning my life
choices. So yeah, it can happen in the
shorter races, but yeah, it happens in nearly all the long
races that I do. Swiss Peaks 360, for example.
I was only 18 hours in, I think, and told me when my stomach was
in bits, I just felt really nauseous.
And, you know, I was thinking that you're only into day one.
You've only made it. You don't Checkpoint 2 yet.
And the six checkpoints, like you've got another three days
ahead of you. How are you going to finish when
you feel like this so early? So when you start getting
thoughts like that, yeah, you need to kind of, you need to
have a why. And I just tell myself that I
put myself here like nobody else has put a gun to my head and
said, you, you need to do this. I'm here because I like it.
And sometimes I just force a smile.
I physically just sit there and I actually thought I start
laughing and just telling myself that I'm talking to myself like
a like a lunatic on the trail just going, you put yourself
here. No one's done this to you.
Be grateful and just smile. And I sit there just going, just
forcing a smile out and it works.
After a bit, you forget and you start thinking about something
else and you're back in the game.
Then you've just, you just need to ride it out.
You just need to keep going until, until you forget about
how bad it is. And then you start, you start
thinking about how good it is then.
And the last piece of advice you gave was to look after your
feet. And you said that you went
through a flooded sort of river, burst its banks.
How were your feet? Pretty good.
I mean after 9 hours I'd expect them to be pretty good.
But yeah I had deck shell waterproof socks on so my feet
stared. I'm going to say dry, but yeah,
I had no issues, no blisters, no hotspots.
I've generally got, that's one of my strengths.
I've got really good feet for this kind of stuff.
Don't really get blisters. And the last question about
this, you give all the advice to your clients, but when you're
running a race, does having clients you're responsible to
like they're accountable to you, but you're also accountable to
them, Does that make you feel I can't give up because they're
watching me? Does that does that benefit you?
It really does. So yeah, you've you've got that.
You've got the athletes that you're coaching looking at you
and thinking he's my, you know, mentor stroke role model maybe.
But not only that it yeah, I always think it's bad for
business if you can't finish a race.
You've got you've got potential future athletes that might want
to be coached by you. If you do well in this race and
you finish, they're going to want to be coached by you.
If you've been successful, you've managed to finish.
And that's sometimes what athletes want in a course.
You want a course that's been there, done that.
If you've entered a race and you've not finished it, but
you're a course, they're going to go to another course that's
been there, done that race and finished it.
Not yeah. So yeah, definitely you, you,
you've got to finish it for that reason sometimes.
With the dog watching and the trackers, it was exciting this
week because whenever we had a few friends and the fool Spain
and whenever the numbers and the bed went below it, you're like,
right, OK, they're having the rest and you would go back to it
maybe a couple of hours later, like right.
Why are they not moving now? Come on, we're we're waiting on
you moving north. There was a few there.
Was a few times I said to Nikki, they're being lazy, Why are they
not moving? They're only 200 miles into this
race. Come on.
We did actually joke as well. We looked at the dwell time of a
couple of them and they're like, oh, they've had a lovely
holiday. Last week they went into the
bubble. They had no worries apart from
just going up the pedine way and it's just it's so not that
simple. Yeah, you can see everything on
the trackers cart. You can.
It just shows everything. Yeah.
You can't hide. No, you can't.
So as you discussed earlier on your your reason for your why
you're unchanged from the losing weight to just enjoying it has
they still? Is that why you run now?
Is it for still the enjoyment or has that changed since?
Yeah, no, definitely. It's just for enjoyment.
I love the hills mainly. I mean, I love running anywhere,
but I moved to the Lake District so that I could run in the hills
a little bit more. So yeah, I didn't think it was
possible to enjoy my running anymore.
But as the years go by, I'm just nothing's.
It's not getting boring, it's not getting.
I'm not getting fed up. It's the passions grow in.
If anything, I just love running in the hills.
I love the views. I love how I feel after it, just
trying to better myself and stuff like that.
So no, I think the reasons always, you know, stayed the
same. Now there's no I do it for
nothing other than enjoyment really.
And maybe there's a bit of an escape sometimes I could use it
as like a bit of an escape just from like, is it a stress or
work or? But yeah, mainly it's it's
mainly for fun. And you're saying about stress
and escaping escapism, it probably leads on to what?
What do you think about when you're running Is?
Is it the stressful things? Is it nothing?
What do you think about? Sometimes, yeah, it depends
where I am, what time of day, what I've got on.
But yeah, it can vary from wondering what I've got to do
today and how I'm going to do it.
And then normally on the run I'll figure out how I'm going to
do it. Because sometimes you can seem a
bit overwhelming, like I've got too much on and I don't know how
everything's going to fit. But go for a run, think about it
and more often than not, you come back and you'll know what
you're doing. Sometimes on the longer runs, it
can sometimes be that if you've got, if I've got stuff on my
mind, But then it then again, it might be a bit of that.
And it might be sometimes I self reflect about how I can do
things better in life in in my running, just how I can do
things better in general. Nothing in particular, but yeah,
just how I can, how I can be better and do things better.
Good ideas. Well, so I think about what I'm
running. Sometimes if I'm doing a
particular race, I'll try to visualise what I'm going to do
in that race. That can help Visualisations,
quite a good tool to help with performance.
You know, if you visualise yourself being successful and
this is how you're going to do it in the race and everything's
going to go well, more often than not it it does go well.
You've practised it and you're training.
See, I can think about many different things on a run.
If you could get into my brain and see what I thought on the
run, you just think. I'm not that any point that
you're thinking. I'm questioning my life choices.
Why am I doing this? Have you ever thought I'm going
to make such and such client do this next thing?
Say that again. If you're doing something really
hard that you think, why, Why did I choose to do this?
Because I chose to do it. I'm doing it right.
I'm gonna make client X do this. They've annoyed me this week.
They're doing that next week. Well, no, they're not good.
They should. Do it.
Yeah, I thought my clients, yeah, yeah, sometimes if I'm
doing a particular session and it's hard or yeah, I can
sometimes get workout ideas when I'm doing some of the hardest
stuff, I'm thinking you're going to turn this into a session and
I'll get home and put it into training piece and start dishing
out to the athletes do. You ever listen to music or
podcasts? Sometimes I'll be honest because
I tend to drift off if I try to watch educational podcasts or
even like just just like people chatting like we are now.
Not maybe educational, but just people chatting.
I drift off that many times that it's pointless me listening to
it when I'm running because I just don't have a clue what's
going on. But I do listen to music when
I'm in the hills. On a long run, probably not.
I find it annoys me after a little bit.
After half an hour you can get inside my brain and it can stop
these thoughts that sometimes I like to have when I'm thinking
about things. I can't concentrate, but when
I'm on a treadmill, for example, or just running on the roads
around here, I'll generally have a little bit of music on you.
It helps. Yeah, the monotony of the
treadmill running. You you need something on just a
rather than staring at the wall. Yeah, it's boring.
Definitely. And do you have a dream race
that is still on the bucket list?
Yeah, there's quite a few I quite like.
They're quite short for me, but I quite like the Sky Races just
because of the the terrain you're running on and the views
you get when you're doing it. If it's a good day, Chemo, if
you've heard of that, Trofio chemo, big classic Sky race,
really technical and it's got lots of ropes and chains and
it's highly elevated, lots of elevation.
That would quite like to do that one day, maybe.
I wish I wished I'd have done Killian's race.
Tromsaw, I don't think that that's on anymore.
I don't think. I think he's pulled the plug on
that. That would have been a good one.
Leadville quite like to go and do Leadville one day.
What's the other one? There's not Hard Rock.
There's Leadville Hard Rock and no Hard Rock.
No, it's I was gonna, I was thinking, yeah, I don't want to
do Western states, but I would love to do Hard Rock and
Leadville. They look great.
Western states, it looks good. But yeah, I would prefer to do
the other two over there, but Hard Rock you have to do.
Twice, because it does. They do it in different
directions, so all right. Yeah, I'd have a go at that.
There's so many good looking races out there now.
The Matterhorn all tracks one that looks pretty good.
Toddy Glossier is the top 450. Like to do that one day.
Don't know if I'll do them. There's just too many in there.
Yeah, there's always. There's no harm in admiring
them. You don't necessarily have to do
them. Yeah, true, true.
And the next question is 1 can be difficult for people to
answer, but is there anybody alive, not fictional or real,
that you would like to go for a run with?
Yeah, I had to think about this for a little bit.
And I couldn't really think of anybody, but then Zach Miller
sprung to mind quite like Zach Miller.
He's full of energy and it looks like he'd be a good lad to run
with. I like the way your race is.
He's just all in. Do you know what I mean?
When he pulls it off, he pulls it off and he's not scared to.
Don't hold that back. Yeah, he just proper goes in
hard. And I've actually seen him, I
think it was Trans Gran Canaria. He did a bit of AQ and A, and he
just seemed like a fun guy. So probably Zach Miller.
Yeah. Courtney to Walter Navy good to
go for a run with. And.
For anybody else, really. Zach Miller's a really good
dancer to be fit. Is that the guy that danced
along the finish line? Could be he's a bit, he's a bit.
He's crazy. He got in trouble in some of the
country. Was it for pouring water on his
head? If it's something like he was
just getting, he was just hot and he poured water on his head.
But I think it's in one of them countries where they don't have
a lot of fresh water. I thought I was going mad about
it. He was just like, wow, it's just
cooling down. And the last question, unless
Mike has any more after this, what is next for you running
wise? So I was going to do, I said
this before, I was going to do Ultra Trail Snowdonia in May and
then I was going to go and do either the lead Swish Peaks 360
again or I was going to do the tour the 3:30.
But I've been thinking, probably inspired by when I went and
helped James the other week, I'm now going to do a Bob Graham in
Easter time, give or take a half a month either way.
So springtime, Bob Graham Lakeland 50 in July.
I've always had that. And I think it's just a good
race to keep in the middle of the year.
It's super runnable. There's hiking sections in it
where you know you'll need to power hike, but the for the
majority of it you're running and you can run at a good, good
pace. That's my that's my weakness
running, actually running. I'm running a decent effort if
you get me, like a good steady effort.
If I could increase just my, if I could just increase my easy
run pace ever so slightly, which is what I've been doing and it
paid off last week. I was a bit faster than what I
than what I have been. So I need to keep working on
that. So I think by keeping Lakeland
50 in, that'll be a good chance or Bob Graham, lots of hiking,
lots of elevation, bits of running, then Lakeland 50 more
running. Then I'm thinking of going doing
another Steve Parr round probably end of September or
when I've recovered from Lakeland.
Bats are the fast hiking again, lots of elevation, bits of
running. I'd like to do the power round
anticlockwise this time because I did the other one clockwise.
So let's do the anticlockwise power round.
And then all that would have been sort of like geared towards
prepping for Spine 2027 because in the spine you are hiking and
running, the hills are not as big as the late district hills.
You know, they're not as aggressive.
And you know, in a Bob Graham and a steep power round the
elevations massive. It's a lot of up and down, not
much flat running, which is why I try to keep Lakeland
sandwiched in between them so that I don't just get good at
just hiking. I can kind of transition between
hiking and running. So if you think of my plan, Bob
Graham hiking, bits of running, lots of elevation, Lakeland bit
of elevation, but more running power round again, like a Bob
Graham, lots of hiking, bits of running, build a good strong set
of legs. And then after summer, then just
just put it all in for the spine 2027.
Then full spine and do more flatter running on rolling trail
with bits of hiking in with a heavy background.
And I think that'd be a good prep for them, them challenges
and like 50. I think that would be good
training for a January 2027 spine.
Full spine. I just have one more question
off of the back of that. When you mentioned those rounds
for someone like myself that hasn't done many hills or rounds
and just want to get more elevation and trails into the
plan. I personally have alls what's 20
coming up? And it's I'm slightly nervous
about it. Have you got any advice that you
could give to us runners that just want to get in the hills
more? But when we're out, I actually
personally feel when I'm going up the hills I'm like, Oh my
God, I'm dying. How am I going to manage this?
Is there any advice you could give to us for getting by that?
Yeah. I would say the elevation itself
is what you would call like say specificity of training to get
better at that, you can do specific training like do more
hill work and that will help you to improve on that.
Well, you need to kind of remember as well that fitness
trunks everything. So the fitter you are, the
faster you'll be able to get up that hill.
So doing interval training would be good.
You can do it, you can do it flat or you can do it uphill.
If you do it uphill, not only are you training your legs
muscular to be able to, you know, cope with the demands of
running uphill, but you also, if you run fast and hard up a hill,
you're going to match your heart rate out and get some good, you
know, cardiovascular like aerobic, sort of like training
with that. So mix up your training between,
you know, do some interval work to get fitter and then do some
specific work like hill training.
If you live in an area that's quite Glasgow, for example,
Monday to Friday you might have a job what you will do and you
might not be able to get to the hills that much.
Joining the gym, doing some strength work would be good and
then also doing some Stairmaster sessions maybe and some
treadmill incline sessions. You could incorporate that in
during the week so that you're not only do it, most people are
time crunched. They can only do that on a
weekend and if you've got families, they can't often get
to the hills as much as they'd like to do that if you've got
little ones. So they're again, yes, it comes
to the weekend and they can do that, but if they can't get away
because they've got commitments, then they really are stuck.
So get to the hills as much as you can to get that in the legs.
But if you're struggling, the only other thing you can do is
get on the treadmill, set it at a really steep incline, power
hiking for long, you know, 30 to 60 minute efforts with a heavy
pack on your back. That can be helpful.
And then that helps with conditioning.
And then if you're in the race, if you've gone a bit heavier
with your pack and then you reduce the weight and then your
race packs a little bit lighter. Let's say you're doing Lakeland
50 for example, you pack might be for 3 to 4 kilograms with
food and water. If it's a good weather there,
then you're not often to carry lots of extra kit.
If you can train with a 6 to 8 to 10K pack on your back and
build it up over time, that's going to become normal to you
when you're back. And then when you start doing
your long runs with the lighter, well, you do your long runs with
still a slightly heavier pack on your back, I would do anyway.
And then when you get to race day, once you go to Raceway and
it's nice and light you, you're not going to feel that pack on
your back. Whereas somebody that's not
really took that into consideration when they've
filled the pack up with everything, they're like, oh,
bloody yellow, didn't realise me race pack is going to be this
heavy. So that's a good one.
But start doing that on your uphill hiking sessions on the
treadmill if you're going to do them.
And then same on the Stairmaster as well.
Stairmaster's a great tool for somebody who wants to get better
in the hills, but they don't, they don't have hills on the
doorstep. Does that make sense?
It does, thank you. The Stairmaster looks torture.
Yeah, it's tough. And the only thing you don't,
it's a downhill element then, which is annoying because you
know, you, you need to condition your quads really for running
downhill for long durations. But if you've got your back to
the wall and that's all you can do, it's better than nothing,
yeah. Just looking up the the very
first question for you said that you'd lost a lot of weight to a
weighted backpack. Have you ever tried putting on a
backpack that weighs the same amount as the weight that you
lost? Yeah, no, well, I might have
done not intentionally. So I have done some guiding work
and when I've done myself somewhere ML stuff, I did have a
heavy pack on with like a 10 sleeping bag food, like for a
three day expedition. That pack probably weighed
about, yeah, close to 20 kilos. I know you're getting that.
I've not actually done that. But when I've just put a 10K
weight vest on training for the spine, I can't believe the extra
strain that puts on your torso and your limbs and your joints,
tendons, ligaments. So I can only imagine what kind
of strain I was putting on my body when I was at that
heavyweight. It's crazy, Yeah.
I've got to apologize to Howard's clients now because
that's the session that they're going to be getting next week.
Well, when I've got quite a few training for Auto Trail
Snowdonia. So now we've got through
Christmas and, you know, we're getting towards, yeah, getting
into the specific stuff they're all going to be doing.
Hike, hiking hill reps with weight on the back.
A good one is, and it's been around for a few years is but
Tom Evans did a little bit with the rocks in his backpack.
But another one could be just put water in your backpack,
bottles of water, get all your weight in water.
Start doing your hiking hill reps at the bottom near a river.
You feel obviously you'll fill your bottles up at home because
it's faster. Your pack will be preloaded with
all that water. You might hike to the top of
say, skidder, for example, or hell, villain, get to the top,
tip all the water out, run down back to the river at the bottom,
fill them all up again fast, like up again.
And it just saves ruining your, your joints by having like 10 to
50, you know, 10 kilograms of water weight smashing through
your knees when it's not always necessary.
Yeah. Right, I think that brings us to
the end of our question set. So it just from me.
Thank you Howard from for coming on.
Thank you Nikki for being Nikki and it's goodbye for me.
Thank you for coming on. How about?
No thanks for having me, it's been good.