Welcome back to another episode of Run Till You're Done, Today's
guest. I was doing my research and
we've probably done about, I don't know, 15 or 20 of the same
races, but we never seem to have been on the same year.
And one year we were doing the same race.
I was D33, and she finished about two hours ahead of me.
So I'm going to say that I was running with somebody else, but
anyway, forget about that. The our guest has went from
winning the angle Celtic plate to, uh, enforced rest, but we'll
get on to that and she's fighting your way back to
fitness again. Not that she took a break during
a lot of it. But as I say, we'll find out
about it. And I'm going to predict there's
going to be quite a lot of giggling during this episode
because I think we've got Nikki's running idol with us
tonight. We've got Jill Wilson.
Welcome Jill, be fun. And I'm probably the most
nervous though. I'll trust that you could not
think you'd be nervous about it so.
Absolutely not. Before we get on to all the
absolutely epic stuff Mike has just mentioned there and
chatting about that, how did you first come into them?
Oh see, I've I've actually ran, it's probably since like late
primary school, just got into my mum was always into like tennis.
We were always out walking, just liked being outdoors.
And then the school cross Country Club on, I think it was
in P7 and they had like a come along try.
We ran and like the football pitch twice and then we went on
like the nature trail. So it was just maybe like a
couple of miles tops. And I was like, I actually love
this, you know, just being out in the fresh air, getting
sweaty, working hard. And then went to from P7 up to
high school, they had like a feeder race, what they call it.
So all the primary schools that were going up to the same high
school, we all competed and did a race, which I ended up
winning. I've still got the thought when
I'm wearing like must have been one of my mum's freebie
T-shirts. It was like a tenants T-shirt,
which is probably not appropriate for somebody at like
12 years old. Yeah.
Just like that had like lit a flame.
So then on and off kind of throughout school, I did the
track and field. So I did like a bit of like
discus, sort of long jump, did hurdles which I was rubbish at
and like like 800 metres in cross country, competed in like
Fife and Scottish schools. And then as you do, you kind of
come away from it, went to uni and then joined the police and
got back into it through the police.
So did like some competitions like cross countries 10 mile
champs and met my pal Jack Wilson through that and then we
will start the running club and it just has spiralled from
running like 5K to running 180 miles over about a 15 year
period. So you went from 5K, What would
you other than school races, what would you class as your
first race? Yeah, so I was looking back at
that because I've, I was like thinking, oh, I can't remember
when my first race, but I think maybe like 2010.
I remember doing the Edinburgh Half Marathon.
It was my first half and it was my first race for Carnegie
because I didn't have a vest, but I was in the club.
So that I think it was about 2010.
But I'd maybe done like the Dunfermline 10 key and stuff
before that and like a few like midweek races.
But that's probably the stand out kind of first race that I
did and had the worst DOMS in chafing can imagine.
Although things haven't improved because I still get both of
those things. What do you do to avoid them?
Oh and not butter wagging it on it doesn't matter like what my
weight is like. I will chafe like front and back
everywhere I have to cover myself in to toe a bit.
And you mentioned 180 mile race, What, what was that?
Yeah, so that was, I did that actually with Derek Fish, who
is, you might say he's a good influence or a bad influence,
but he he had floated the idea and said he was going to do it.
It was the challenge 180. So it was like running E
Highland Way from Aviemore to Fort William, then Fort William
down the West Highland Way to Mogai.
The 180 miles there was only maybe about, I think about six
of us did it, but I was going to crew for them.
And then I was like, oh, why don't I just run it with you?
So we ended up running it together and it's like 55 hours
I think that we're running for. But we've done like so many big
days out. We did.
He introduced me to Monroes. Loads of like 10 hour days out
in hills, out in the trails, weekends away, drinking,
running. So it was like, oh, this would
be perfect. And it was just like an ace.
We celebration of like all the running that we've done together
over the years. And actually Martin Hagee was in
that race. I think it was one of his big
ones, but he had got the worst blisters and I think he dropped
out and maybe on the West Highway part of it.
And but yeah, that's how we first got introduced to Martin
Hagee. And I was like, this guy is
mental in all the good phase, but and they look at what he's
done since then so. How?
How was the navigation through the E Highland way?
I've heard it's like overgrowing and really bad.
Yeah, it's pretty boggy as well. Like if I didn't have Derek
there because my watch had died about 3 hours and I had the root
on my watch and the battery just the life was sucked out of it.
So we knew that we were going to have to stick together anyway.
But it's not like it's nothing like the West Hill way.
It's not a well beaten path at all.
You're and just find your way between points and but some bits
of it are absolutely stunning. And do you have to have crew?
You said you were the crew, so yeah.
We were, so we ran together, but his wife, Rona, at the time, she
crewed the first half to Fort William.
And then from there Iona Mackay joined and she cooed with Rona
the second-half of it. And by that point, like we got
to, we didn't sleep at all. I was asking for sleep and he
said no, no, we'll push on. We'll push on.
And then we got, I think down to Tindrum and his van was there.
So we jumped in the back there and maybe had about an hour and
we're like, I don't even think we slept.
You know, you're all twitchy and you're trying to sleep, but
you're sore and you're just all kinds of feelings and got out
the van and probably only got to like the roller coaster section,
maybe like 3 miles. And I had to sleep next to a
tree. And then we were like, right,
we'll get to Ben Glass. We'll sleep on the trail.
So by the time we got there, I was slapping my face and
screaming just like try and keep myself awake because even
running I was like, I'm going to fall asleep while I'm on my
feet. And it's not like the best path.
You've got to watch and the rocks and things.
So we got to Bing last, but the midges were out in force.
So we're like, well, we can't sleep here.
So like mortar dawn got to the side of the lock and there's a
little bothy and it was like, you know, you're like almost
envisaged envisaged A5 star hotel like amazing.
Look at this place. It's stunning.
It was an absolute horrible, but it's the best sleep we've ever
had. Like set our sleeping bags, lay
down. I think we took about an hour to
90 minutes in there and the recharge was unreal.
And then we just, we're done to the finish.
Well, you know that running for 55 hours with just short sleeps?
That sounds like a bit like you're signing up for a backyard
alternate. Someone that says I'm not doing
an ultra, I'm not doing a marathon and then here.
We are off at the back of that 55 hours.
Is Mike saying as well And the lack of sleep.
Did you hallucinate much? Oh, I just was, it wasn't, I
don't even think I was hallucinate.
And I was just so tired. And I couldn't believe you could
fall asleep while you're actually doing something
physical. Because I could fall asleep in
the car if it's somewhat, well, even if maybe if I'm driving,
but if someone else is driving, I could just be like that.
And I was amazed at how tired and even for weeks after,
because you wake up in your own bed and you're like, I should be
running, but you're like, it's finished.
Like done. I'm actually asleep now.
It's weird. Did did you take caffeine or
what was your strategy for that? Yeah, we were eating, we were
doing real food because of like the length of time and the
intensity wasn't high. But if it's anything for me,
like up to 100K, even maybe 100 miles, I I would gel have gels.
But if it's stuff like 24 hour race and things I am like
breakfast, lunch, tea. And then I would supplement with
gels and caffeine. Sometimes too much caffeine gels
gets the old palpitations and I don't feel awake.
I'm like, I don't know if it's just just actually gets your
heart racing. Yeah, it's not quite good when
you're you're so tired that you can't sleep because your heart,
your adrenaline's pumping. So yeah, yeah.
But anyway, leading on from that, a couple of years down the
the line, you were running Anglo Celtic plate and then you ran
for JB. How did that come about?
Yeah, well, that was something because I'd done Glenmore 24
back in like 2018. I think I ran 123 miles and
James Stewart said to me, oh, you know, like that distance is
good enough for like 24 hour team.
And then he just kind of floated that idea about like running for
Scotland. And I was like thinking, I'm
never going to be good enough for that.
Like, and it's one of those things you shelve, but it is
obviously like just maybe like working away at the back of your
head. And then I remember it was 2009,
end of 2018, actually into 2019 that Adrian Stott and Debbie
Kasani had contacted me and said about running the 100K for
Scotland. And I was like, Nah, that's not,
that's not my bag at all. And it wasn't actually until the
March that eventually was like, because they were needing
someone for the team, like you'll be perfect.
And I think it was only like 4 or five weeks before that I was
like, OK, yeah, I'll, I'll come on the team.
But I obviously had been training, just not specifically
for that. I was like, oh, I can do the
distance. I know that.
And I just don't know if I can do the distance and the
intensity, but went out quite conservative.
But I still, I finished third that year and I was like had
just an amazing time. Love drumming loops, love the
format of it. And I was just absolutely
delighted. So that was like my first out in
First Scotland and then got a bit hooked.
Debbie contacts you. How do you say no?
So like 2020, I think it was. I was meant to run as well, but
then COVID hit so that got cancelled.
But that actually was a blessing.
I ended up just being able to batter the train and there was
no races, There's no taper, there's no like recovery
required. You were just able to really hit
hard training and then end of COVID run again at Dublin for
the 100K on the team and like positioned well there.
And then we were back in Perth for 20/22.
And how do you say no to Perth? It's on home turf.
And then yeah, just had an absolute blinder of face.
But I think it's because it's it's local, everyone's there and
it's just absolutely buzzing. I was loving it.
I, I, I had the pleasure. I don't even know if you
realized I was there crewing for Kyle when you won that race.
I think I was like, so in this, like I was taking stuff in, but
you know, when you're, you're so in the zone, like I was so just
concentrating and focused on all my times, all my splits, getting
the fuel in and I it's almost like the thing the whole day is
a blur, but it's also so vivid. Like certain bits of it.
It was, it was amazing. And the weather was like spot on
as well. It's good when it all comes
together. It's not often.
I was speaking to a few people as well, doing my research about
you like from that race as well, and they say whoever was there,
it was an absolute buzz to see you when.
Like. That how How did it feel when
you crossed the line? That's you.
You've won. Do you remember that?
Yeah, it was funny because I'm not like a really conservative
place and I'm never at the front early on.
I like always, I don't get pulled away.
I will stick to my splits and that was my plan.
And I think I was in like 4th or 5th place because the English
girls, they run in quite a big pack.
I usually always just run by myself.
If I catch up with somebody, I'll run with them for a bit,
chat for your laps. But I really stick to my own
strategy. So I tried not to like think of
like quite far down here. But as the race progresses,
we've got kind of 50K and on. So if I'm picking off these
people, I'm getting a bit closer.
And Debbie updates you all the time.
She's like your X amount of like laps behind or time or they've
just gone through. They look rubbish, like you're
looking much stronger and see just hearing that you think, all
right, perfect. And then I was like 3/4 round
for the laps and Jack Wilson was there and she's like Sam Hammond
is right ahead of you. You're going to take her.
And she like was there to witness me like come around the
corner and overtake her and she's like, yes, right.
It's my race to lose now because Sam bleeding.
I was like, Oh no, like that feeling of being then the lead
person who's getting chased. Like I we prefer to be chasing
down, but once you overtake, you're like, I've got just got
to carry on things still at about 20 K to go or something.
You're running for your life. I always find that paranoia.
You think that somebody's going to catch you.
It's a beautiful motivator. Yeah.
Oh, it's amazing what you like the bag as well because you're
obviously you're pretty burst and you're just like you.
You get something else. It just fires something else
into you. And even if somebody was to say
like they're right behind you, there's nothing you could do.
But mentally you're like, I'm, I'm literally doing all I can.
I'm just going to keep going. But.
They're, they're probably thinking the same thing.
They're how can I catch them so? Yeah, I just think pass with
conviction, even if you're dying as well.
Don't, don't, Don't show weakness.
Don't. Show it.
Smile. And how, how do you keep going?
You're saying like 20 K to go and that's where you've passed.
Like how do you tell your brain just keep going, keep going,
because that's still quite a distance to keep on going?
100K or like 100 miles. When you take that, it's like 1
number. You think it's a long way,
there's no denying that. But when you're doing those
loops, you're like right, it's X amount of loops left.
It's so I've got about 3 minutes left of this lap.
You just break it into like little things that like keep you
going and because you have like pals either side of the course
or you're like, right, it's four more gels or however much fluid,
or because you don't have music, you're not allowed to wear music
now for the ACP. So I think I've been dialled in
thinking I've got my tunes, I've got my playlist and then you get
there and they're like no Scottish athletics, say no
music. So then you're thinking I'm
literally in my head for like 7 1/2 hours and you have to just
be mentally really strong and try not let that waver, but you
know you're going to have rough times.
I think I was in the toilet probably in the 1st two hours,
maybe about 15 times. I was just peeing.
I don't know if it was nerves, if it was like over fuelled or
what it was, but I was like, right, I'm I'm losing time here.
But I had to then remember that other people are going to need
to go to the toilet. So just go.
You need to go so you'll catch them up.
Just picking up on your, you said that no music.
I I've heard that about Scottish athletics and I'd say we
remember about Anglo Kell play. That's not a normal Scottish
athletics rule for for other races.
I don't think. Is it just for the Anglo Kell
play or do you know more? Think so in thinking 2019 I had
music, but then everyone since then there's been no music and
they are obviously closed courses.
It's not for it's not for Rd. like closures or anything like
that is. I think it is just one of the
rules that has been stipulated for an Anglo Celtic plate, which
the thought of it, I'm like, oh, because I always, I always
change with either music or a podcast.
So then I'm like on that one day thinking this is something
completely different. Yeah, but I don't mind it
because there's so much going on and you are just like having the
old blather or looking around and I just, my brain goes wild
when I'm out running anyway. I could have a podcast on, but
I've got 110 things going through my brain at one time.
I think that's just like processing the day.
And right after you took the win, what happened after that
like the weeks and even the year a couple of years leading up to
you're in four stressed as Mike with a sense what what happened
in between that periods? So that one, the Anglo
calculating 2022 I, because I'd won it, I managed to get a place
for the British and Great Britain team to go out to Berlin
in the August. So it was a pretty quick turn
around though. You're talking you race 100K in
April and then you're racing another one in August.
And bearing in mind I just the one the August before handed on
a 24 hour track race. So within the space of 12
months, it's a lot of intensity on the body.
Like I think the mileage is OK, but it's when you're adding
intensity and the mileage, that's when the body starts to
say I need a bit of a break. And I have never had an injury
the whole time I've been running that should.
But I had a bit of a calf strain.
Like I would even say I popped on a run, but I was like in a
bit of denial between like the April and August to the point
that I think I missed about four weeks of training.
And but then I managed to like bring it back.
I went out to Italy because I've been come part of hours hour 7,
the team that I obviously met Rob on and we'd gone out to
Italy and I managed to put a good training block together
ahead of that and then came back and I think I only had a few
weeks and then went out to Berlin.
But I didn't go out with like a massive expectation.
I thought it's going to be warmer.
It's you're not really racing for a time when you go to a big
race like that. You're racing for positioning
well as a team and just really getting round and finishing in a
pretty credible time. But I had like ACP was amazing,
but this was. I don't know what it was.
I was just in such a good headspace.
My brother had come out to watch me race and the Fee and Emma,
the two girls who ran the 106 marathons, they'd come out as
well as a surprise. I met them at the airport before
that. So I was like just totally, I
was up for that. I was buzzing and it was looked
coarse again as well. And I just had a really like
progressive race and I managed to like chip some time off the
ACP time. And it was just crossing that
finish line is like the best feeling I've ever had because I
had had the flag in my arms and like we're in the GB kit.
And I was like, if I never do this again, I will be happy
because I've had opportunity. This is this is like far beyond
anything I ever thought I'd be doing.
And. You mentioned you met Rob and
for those that don't know, we're talking about Rob Sinclair,
previous guest as your partner and lean on from that and
Nikki's got the next question. So after that there was some big
changes since she started You're running and he got pregnant.
Yes, it did. So Rob and I, this has been like
a whirlwind for like, like it's only been like 2 and a bit
years. But yeah, in that time I have
moved from Fife to Aberdeen. We've had a little girl who
turns 1 tomorrow and yeah, life has taken a complete like
U-turn. I mean in the best way possible.
Like we've, we're sitting here with everything we want and like
just, you just can't believe it sometimes.
But yeah, obviously that impacts on your running and it was with
it. But we were saying the other
day, like, obviously, Mike, you were at the D33, but I was there
that that was my first thought actually.
And over the years Rob and I have like crossed paths at like
the West Highway, the Glencoe Marathon, the Glen Ogle, all
these like races, but had never really had much conversation
over those years. I think be too shy to speak to
him. I think you raced the the year
that he did his first ultra, the Catherine, he won that.
That's what got him his place in the West Island way.
And you you were doing that race as well.
So it's, yeah, you've always been in the background.
I'll never trust you. That race for me.
So how did how did you end up meeting with was it just that a
race or a run an event and just get chat and then does it say
the rest is history? Yeah.
So we we've both been signed up to that team, which they were
like giving us assistance. It was training camps.
There was like assistance with kit with all like nutritions,
Physiology, sports testing and things like that.
So Rob had missed the first trip which we went down to, oh, I
forget the name of it, down near Bristol.
And we've done like some filming for the new team setting up, but
he was on APT course. So I'd never met him then.
And then we went down to the lakes in the March and they got
chatting to him. And I just, you know, you have
an impression of somebody and then you meet him.
And Rob could not be like more down to earth.
He's like the most humble, like easygoing guy to chat to.
And I'd actually never spoken to him.
And we just blathered for ages. I was like, oh, it's really
decent. I can't believe he, like, lives
in Scotland and we've been at all these races and never
actually spoken to him. And then Fast forward somewhere,
we went out to training camp in Italy and obviously spent more
time together and yeah, here we are.
You, you say down to earth, but I'm not sure that that's a
proper description of Rob, because he he, he doesn't sit
still. He is.
He's like a a little yappy dog. You must have to be mate with
the sweet. Ones that so when?
You find out you're that you're pregnant, that something that
mate can't relate to is actually being pregnant.
Like how does that change for you?
Felt like, because for myself, and I wasn't even running at
that point or anything, I was very, very all protective and
oh, can I do this? Can I do that?
How? How did that all go?
Yeah, so it was a it was a plan thing.
And it's it's one of those things you're like, when's the
best time? Because we'd spoken.
Do we wait another year? Because I had the track 100
planned in the April of that year.
And I was obviously going to go for the British record, which I
felt like I was in shape for. But yeah, I felt pregnant in the
March of 2023. And I was still like, can I
maybe still do the track 100? But I didn't want to risk
anything. And I was like, running will
always be there. I could come back to this.
So just really wanted to respect being pregnant and to be honest,
probably it was quite looking forward to a bit of the break
because I've probably since about 2019-2020 been all in on
running. It was all these like little
goals that I had to get a Scotland vest again and
potentially get AGB vest either for the 100K or the 24 hour.
And I just thought that was my time to have a bit of a rest.
But I've always been a gym goer and I dabbled in CrossFit.
Like 2011 to 2014, I was going to CrossFit like 3 or 4 times a
week. I've been back in doing that in
like 20/17/2018. So I knew that I could revert
back to some gym work, which I do anyway and I enjoy it.
And thankfully Rob, who's APT as well, was doing a pre and post
Natal course to assist me through the pregnancy.
So we kind of had this little project that we could work on
together and it meant I just didn't have to put any thought
into my training whatsoever. Rob would plan it all out for
me. So it was just a really good way
of like reframing training. It was more like you're going to
be doing good movement. It's all about functional
movement for being mobile and able through pregnancy to try
and then carry that strength into like the recovery after
having the baby. I thought I'd maybe be able to
run for longer than I did, but I think I got to maybe it was the
September of that year and I did the Skyline 5K.
Well, it's quite an arduous task because I was rather large at
that point and I thought that's probably my last run.
So I think I'm done for about another week after that.
But I see, I see. I continued running.
I probably did like 10 to 15 miles a week, which was a
massive step down from my like 60 to 70 that I'd been doing.
But I wasn't really bothered. I was just happy to get out
walking movement. I just like, you know, outdoors
and I like lifting weights. So I was able to get my fix in
some way. Is it something that?
Sorry mate. Something I just remembered
about the when you and Rob obviously had been told that you
were pregnant and you you hadn't been ready to tell everybody
else yet because it's probably doctor's orders until a certain
time, but you'd came back from wherever it was you were abroad.
And Rob said to me and text, Oh, Joe's, Joe's not feeling well.
She's been, she's been ill for about a week now.
And I replied and said is she pregnant?
Radio silence for about 3 weeks and then the announcement was
made. It was one of those things
because you feel like it's really obvious when you're a
runner and you're like, I'm obviously on Strava and
everybody knew I had this big race coming up as well.
So I think I maybe got COVID on the plane home from Turkey as
well because I was very ill, but it just coincided with also
being pregnant. I was just lying to everybody
like well, but I was very protective and anxious and
apprehensive about announcing anything and I waited.
I think I came to the West Highland way actually because I
was crooning for Jack in the Dunes.
We'd, I think I'd just had my 12 week scan and I just actually at
the time I remember thinking this is so obvious and pregnant.
I look back at those photos now, you wouldn't even know.
But in your own head you're like, oh, it's got this bump.
But it just looked like I've had a big meal.
So that when everybody else kind of found out about, it felt like
I just, it was so obvious, but it probably wasn't.
And later on, now that you've obviously had the baby, question
from Rob was how do you cope with two hyper babies in the
house, one being him and one being.
It is not easy. She's a chip off the old block,
let me tell you. I've just had to tell him to
calm down because it's been time and she was fine.
She's winding her up. So yes, he is very hyperactive.
And, and when, when he was on the podcast, you asked the
question of him and it was along the lines of what do you think
the her chances are given her, her gene pool.
So question to you, what do you think her chances are?
Oh, I just, I would love for her to to enjoy the outdoors and I
think if I could just or both of us can just plant the seed with
her because it something that kind of came and went from my
life. Like I always knew I liked the
outdoors, but I didn't quite find my thing until like I
really got into the running probably when I was either like
hit my early 20s and I became a bit more focused on it.
So I just hope she gets to explore some kind of outdoor fun
and activity that either she'll pick up when she's a teenager or
in later life. But yeah, I'd love her to go and
annihilate some records and things that nothing would make
me more proud. And post Natalie, how soon we
how soon after we back on the fitness did you have to go and
get post Natal checks from the doctors and midwives and
everything like that? Yeah.
So I had, she was a planned section.
So after that like my recovery went quite well from that.
There was no complications or anything, but by that point I
was forced on heavier than I was when I'd fallen pregnant, so
you've got that to contend with. So my rebuild was very much
centred around rebuilding strength literally from the
inside out, and it was to always be the main focus over the
running. The running was then sprinkled
in, but I didn't start really any of that to like six weeks
after I'd had her. But I went and got the mummy MOT
and everything looked to be OK. I had a tiny little separation
of my ABS, but it was like high ABS, more under, like my rib
cage because that's where she had nestled for about the last
10 weeks of the pregnancy, upside down with her feet up
there. So yeah, everything was as
smooth as it could be. But it's really hard to move
your body when you're forced on heavier than you're used to
moving, especially when you're asking it to do like a movement
like running, which involves the whole body.
I think at my first run was like 15 minutes and it was quite hard
going. And it's, it's still hard.
I still notice that I'm having to work harder than I probably
did before, even though I'm back to some reasonable fitness now.
But the strength has been a real key factor in making sure that
I'm coming back and I'm not developing any injuries or
everything is more aligned. I'm trying to make sure that
I've got like strength in the smaller muscles that are
supporting muscles. So like my program that Rob had
set me in the gym while so I was pregnant is very different now.
And this one is more focused on like the movement around
running. So I do uphill athlete, which is
like the Chamonix Mountain Fitness programme.
It's designed for like alpinists and things and it's actually
really good. I just follow a video online.
Most of the movements are body weight and they're all very
functional and it's just to get you working in all planes of
motion. Yeah, I really enjoy it.
It's never like a chore for me to do strength work.
I don't see it as a or I could be out running and I'm having to
do this. I see it as that is what is
keeping me out running now. So is strength work The the main
thing now is you got to put running to one side and just get
buff, yeah. It just get torn.
Nah, but I do it do it like twice a week usually.
Now it's funny though, because my running volume, I think I'm
up to like about 40 miles on a like top end week, which I know
it's all like relative to the individual, but I just, I don't
know how I ever did any more than that.
I know I didn't have a, a small human to, to keep alive And but
I also worked full time, whereas now I'm obviously I'm on
maternity leave. I'm not working.
So just the juggle is just very different.
But it just means that Rob and I have to really be very concise.
We sit down on a Sunday night and we look to what the
activities are for the week ahead, what everyone's got on,
what he's got on, what I've got on, what social things we've got
and we try and build my weeks around that and and jobs as
well. So it is very much a busy weekly
calendar of plans and it's not just all centred around
training, but it's something that's really important to us
both and it's what we like doing, so we make it work.
And maternity leaves must be almost over.
Do you think that's going to be a a shock to everybody's system
when you're not going to have time to do anything because
you'll be good working and then that's it?
Yeah, I'm like, I totally don't know where this is going to fit
into the week. So yeah, I'll be, I think I'll
be like back 3 three days a week during the week with the odd
weekend. But yeah, it'll be involving
nursery drop offs, pickups, just a bit more planning and and then
if there's going to grow and she's going to have activities
of her own and things. So time is just going to change
and develop. But we'll just have to work
around that. And I think we both just accept
that maybe during this time of her life, things just have to be
about everyone. They're not about us.
But if we can get our own time in amongst that, then that's
great. And now that you have the family
unit, I don't actually want to move away from this section
quite yet. Because you'd signed up to
Valencia Marathon, is that right?
Yeah, yeah. And I don't want to go brush
past this because what you've done the other weekend, that
scene was amazing. Can we talk about that?
So I had, it was, I think everything was like 2 weeks old
and our friend Simon Tessa had signed up for Valencia.
I was like, oh, I actually do. I'd love to do that.
And a year after giving birth, a year is plenty of time, which
let me tell you, a year goes when you're rebuilding fitness
and raising a child. So it just somewhat crept off on
me. But I had been trained and I've
like had a few smaller goals and then 5K10 KS, half marathons.
And I felt like the rebuild was, it was sensible but progressive
at the same time. We just didn't want it to be
something that like would be two steps forward, one step back.
And then then it has all been very much like progressed in the
way that, well, I'd hoped it would.
So yeah, Valencia, there was bad flooding.
So I was like, oh, it's not meant to be.
And then they said the race is still going ahead.
So we've packed up the car, went down, stayed in Edinburgh the
night before, went to the airport.
We were about to board and they said there was a delay.
So we had a connecting flight from Edinburgh to Dublin, Dublin
to Valencia and they were like, we're going to miss their
connecting flight if this is delete anymore.
And then it got further delayed and we're like, Oh no.
And the bags, they were already set through.
So I was like, are we going to have to go to Dublin to then
come back? But Long story short, we got the
bag off and then we drove home to Aberdeen.
But I had had this little backup plan in the pipeline.
I had booked the Croft Circuit marathon when the Valencia
floods happened. So I thought, I have a backup
should everything go wrong. And Rob had asked me if I'd
cancelled it that week going to Valencia and I was like, Nah, I
just haven't, I'm just going to wait till we're on the plane.
And I'm glad I did because we then came home, repacked winter
gear to then go down South. So then on the Saturday we drove
down to Darlington and then the Sunday was the marathon.
But Rob was like, oh, I've signed up for the 10 mile and
I'm going to do the buggy with every.
We were like, oh, hey, so we'll all be on the same track.
And I'm thinking, I've raced on a motor circuit like this
before. This is my comfort zone.
It's tarmac, it's loops. Like it's going to be nice and
cool. It's what we've been training
in. And it was just everything I'd
like, expected. It was amazing.
Yeah. And they were romping round
ripped past me. They actually won the 10 mile
race like these club runners. And Rob's got her in the buggy,
so yeah, it's like, this is amazing.
So the the family went home happy because I think you
brushed over it there. But you won your race, didn't
you? Yeah, I mean, there was four
women in my race as. I said to you pre chat you can
only race against people that turn up.
So nobody, if nobody else turned up and you were the only one
there, you still won. But it wasn't the case.
There was other people there and you still won.
So it was just. Just when as well as I like you,
you never know where you're at. I think if you come back from
injury or illness, you're, you're just never quite sure
where the boys are or even where to picture these.
Because I'm like, oh, well, what pace do I run at now?
Like how, how do I know how to how to do all these things?
But there's just something that you like, I just managed to dial
in and and get it right. You don't always, but I think
you just become more in tune with your body the more like
time that you you have to to run and you just get a bit more used
to what you what you would know your body is capable of.
Rob always gets it right for me. He's like, oh, I knew you would
run this time. And I'd written this down.
I'd messaged my pals saying that I'm like, how do you know?
But he prescribes my training. So the fact that he has that
also dialled in just gives me faith that he's prescribing the
right things for me. And that's.
What I'd said to you as well, like before without Valencia, I
was off and I was wishing you luck.
I said it's really exciting because no matter what happens
you're going to PB your first event as a mum.
Yeah. Well, it doesn't, you know, it
doesn't really matter saying. Why?
Well, I wouldn't have thought it would.
I don't know. Does it matter to you saying?
I think I, I always have a goal whenever I say, oh, I'm not like
I'm not like that focused on a goal, Like it just wouldn't be
true to me. I, I think I always have
something in mind that I want to achieve.
I always think those goals are quite realistic.
I'm never, never over expect for myself.
But I said to Rob, if I can get between 3:20 and 3:25, I would
be absolutely over the moon. If I was like sub 330, I'd be
happy. And those goals kind of became a
bit more concise over the time, over the training.
And I think when I'd first had her, I was like, oh, if I could
go sub four, I'd be delighted. But I just knew that I was
capable of of that. And that was on like a really
good day. But I mean, if she had been up,
she'd she'd been sick in the bed the night before.
Like everything that could go wrong, like having to drive down
in the car for seven hours, like all these things.
But that's just my life now. Like I'm, I'm not able to go and
bank a full night's sleep and guarantee a funfy bed and no
interruptions. I just have to roll with what
I've got now. And like, I wouldn't change it.
It's just, it's what it is. And it probably makes it even
more special when you do achieve something because you think, oh
God, like how did I manage that with all these missiles thrown
my way And I. Just think if if you can win a
race with all the things going wrong, everything not going to
plan. Imagine if you go back to Perth
now and you have a Perth day where the weather's fantastic,
you're everything just works, who knows what's going to
happen? I know, I know.
And with all the various events that you've run through your
life, which one can you pick a favorite?
Oh, it's it's funny because it depends like running for Great
Britain was amazing, but doing like, you know, like the little
personal challenges you set yourself.
Like it was like post COVID, like running the coastal path in
Fife over two days. Like some of those things that
aren't races have been some of the best days out or like a big
day doing the Morris 10 with like mates and just things that
you're like that was just even like on Saturday there Rob and I
went and did 10 miles at Benihi in like Storm Data and we were
like, this is literally the best day out we've had in ages and
there's nothing special about it.
But it was just like raw fun on terrain that we just love those.
Milk are all. The prize looked amazing.
Something that you said to me during the summer when I was I
think 3 or 4 days in the West Island way.
You just, you said to me that you just couldn't get fed up
running on that kind of trail. And that that kind of leads on
to another question from Rob. He's he used to be what he
describes as a road chode and now you're a trail lover.
Comments on that? I know it's funny because I, I
probably wouldn't define myself as like, oh, I'm a Roadrunner
trail runner, but when you look at my CV, you'd be like, oh,
she's just predominantly road or track because that's generally
what I've raced on. But I love like any kind of
terrain, any running anywhere and particularly do enjoy like
the trails, but I think for ease and time efficiency to go from
your front door, especially living in a city centre that is
just tarmac like 90% of the time.
So I think when you do get a chance to go away and enjoy some
like, oh, just some fresh air away from the city, it's just an
absolute dream. And it probably is more special
because it's not all the time now.
Me, me and Nikki had a conversation, I think it was
last week, saying what, what type of runner are you?
It was a podcast that I'd been on years ago.
And are you a trail runner? Are you a Roadrunner?
I'm, I'm a runner. I'm doesn't matter.
I just like running. So is that what you're saying
now? Yeah, I would say I just like if
you said to me or you can't run on tarmac again, I'd be like not
bothered, like you'll have play a runner if I had to run the
treadmill for the rest of my time wouldn't be ideal.
But I just, I think I just, you know, like that escapism, like
as a kid, like you're just like like Forrest Gump, you're just
running like not necessarily with anywhere to go, but it's
just like that freedom of it. I just, I just love it.
Yeah, I'm not sure I would go as far as saying I enjoy the
treadmill. Right.
Next question that we've got on our list is crewing.
You said that you had, was it Jacks crewing for your 180 race
And no, it was the Anglo Celtic plate that you said she was run
crewing for. Have you crewed for people who
normally cruise for you? Yeah, so I I've crewed for, I've
crewed for Derek at the tour, which like that is crewing on
steroids. That is amazing.
That was a big holiday, big like adventure for me as well.
But yeah, I normally like I've had Neil, who used to coach me
from run the cover. He's crude for me.
He's a master of spreadsheets and splits and times and he's so
cool and calm. He's amazing to have one crew.
And Derek Fish and Iona McKay have crude for me quite a lot.
I had Debbie Kinsani, which was like, can't believe David.
He chase my bottle bitch. Like this is amazing.
How lucky am I? But poor Kyle Gregg.
This is at the ACP in 2021. He got some of my bottles, my
like Salomon flasks, which the tops were like black mold.
That's what upset his race and his tummy.
I don't know. I've been finding them for
years. So yeah, crude Jack at the West
Helen May and Iona at the West Helen May as well.
But the tour is like up there with one of the best crew and
experiences ever. Just for listeners, the tour is
the Tour de Giants 220, I think kilometers starting in Cormier
going into the Pyrenees is it? I can't remember.
Very key, I think it is actually, yeah, it's about a
couple 100 miles, which seems mental, but because I'd done the
180 with Derek and he said do you want to come out?
It was my first time driving abroad, which was a new
experience when I was staying in my own accommodation because I
was getting myself between like the places that he was going to
be. I remember getting there.
I'd parked up in this car park with no lights one night.
I couldn't have my phone out, try to find this accommodation.
And then this guy from Italy had come up to you.
This was in a dark alleyway. And I know that this, this, this
didn't feel right. And he's like, oh, do you need
help? And I was like, Nah, I'm fine.
I was saying, oh, I'm actually trying to look for this place.
And he's like, come this way with me.
It is. And everything was telling me,
do not go with this guy. And I actually text Rob because
he was out crewing as well for Natalie Britton.
And I was like, I just need to let you know, like, this is
what's happening. Hear from me like you need to
let someone know. But this guy was the nicest guy.
You actually accommodation and like knew the woman at the B&B.
And I was like, I like, felt so bad.
I honestly thought my life is going to end here tonight but
then managed to get the whole crew and experience done and it
was just amazing. It was like being on like a me
being on a multi day like adventure with Derek.
He was obviously racing the whole race but I ran up to some
points to get to meet him at like the Refugio's had a hot
chocolate or a beer and it was just like we were just out for
like this awesome week long adventure in in naps.
It was amazing. Yeah, and just just in case
anybody thought that the the Tour or 22 de Giants sounds like
a a big race, It's actually the the baby of the two races
because if you finish the Tour, you you're allowed to enter the
Tour de was it Tour de Glaciers, which is longer and bigger?
And yeah, if you ever think you're doing something big,
there's always something worse. And.
I think that one's. I think the NAV on that one is
is much more extreme as well. It's like 450 kilometres.
And yeah, that sounds like a different ball game.
But just being involved in that, you know, when you're thinking,
oh, I would never do this, but I'm happy to crew for it.
But then you come away and think, oh, maybe I will do this
one day. It's it's just bizarre how
you're like mind goes from saying never do that.
No, I'm happy for Derek to do that.
But then I'm like, oh, maybe. So that sounds like you're
signing up, you've got a backyard ultra and a tour they
do right. OK, you've.
Got anyone I could do that? For the tall that you have to
have a crew, is that mandatory? Nah, you don't, but I, I
actually couldn't imagine how anybody would finish it because
you've got your life bases. They transport your bag from
point to point. But in terms of that, like,
like, how do you then think, right, I'm going to charge my
watch, I'm going to charge my phone, I'm going to sleep, I'm
going to set an alarm, I'm going to sort my feet out, change my
shoes and get my food. Like Derek was just like a
zombie and an absolute mess at some of them.
But then you're like taking control of the situation.
And then obviously the smell and some of these life bases was
like, it was like a graveyard. It was awful.
The feet, the sweat, the DO. It was so strong, but it's like
it's almost like ingrained in your nose and you're like, Oh
yeah, that was the door. It was just like awful smell.
I remember being up at the top Agwell de MIDI, which is
Chamonix, and nobody was being sick at the time, but all you
could smell was that ingrained altitude sickness.
Wherever you went, you you couldn't go into like there was
a, a cafe at the top of the ski lift.
It's like, Nah, I'll go and sit outside because it was just, oh,
I don't know how anybody could eat in that place.
It's almost like an incentive to just get through something like
the tour as quick as you can before these places get so bad
with like bodies and smells. But of course, now that you've
went through parenthood or not through because there's still a
long way to go yet, but you're used to that sort of ingrained
somebody's been sick in here, so now you can cope with a Tor.
Well, sometimes got to ask Rob if it's him or every hour.
Like the chat, it's quite a regular question in this house.
So leading on from that, well, it's not leading, it's changing
the subject. What's your biggest running
achievement? Oh, it's weird because there's
been, there's been so many and there's things like I'm proud of
separate, like different levels. But I think like when you do
your first marathon, it's always pretty special because it's your
first time ever, like covering that distance.
And yeah, just that's been pretty special running 100K for
the first time, running the 24 hour track race, because you
don't know if you can can complete these distances and
then you do it and you're like, oh, like I can do that.
Like what else can I do then? Or how much faster can I go?
So it's not always been the races I think that have done the
best, that it's just maybe being like me saying, oh, I can
actually do this like and that like.
I've never gone back to the West Highland race since I had an
amazing race in 2017. But I would love to do it again.
But I need to find out why I would go back.
Would it slowly be for a better time or like what would be my
reason? Because that experience was just
like Unreal had an amazing race and I felt good and I ran like
the last 26 miles with my mate Martin because we were both
placed at that same bit. And it was just, it was just the
best like feeling ever to like be doing that.
And the wind was lashing off our faces.
But we're like, we were training buddies as well.
So we're like, this is just like a day out.
It's me and you. And you say about why you'll go
back and do certain events. Why?
What is your wife for running as a as a whole?
I just love it. I think it's just always been
like intertwined and all like aspects of my life.
My mum had passed away when I was 16 and it was just a bit of
an escape then as well. And it's it's probably always
been the most consistent thing in my life.
Like it's always there whether you need it or don't need it.
You can go back to it. It can be as cheap as you want
or as expensive as you want, but it's just always there and it
just always makes you feel good as well.
I just love it. And you, you said about the ACP,
you're not allowing headphones, but you normally run with
headphones. Obviously if there's a podcast
or whatever, you're being fed information in your your brain
that you're probably not even listening to, but what do you
think about when you're running? Yeah, sometimes absolutely
nothing. Like I could probably just be
completely zoned out. I could even have a podcast in
and just maybe think I haven't even listened to any of that.
Or I could be completely in tune with it.
Like I listened to did the Saltire 12 hour and I had a like
a crime book on and I listened to the whole crime.
It was like true crime thing and I've listened to that and it's
like digested every little bit of that and I think, oh, did I
even take in my surroundings and scenery?
I think it depends what I need that day.
Sometimes I need to get out because it's just been like a
crazy day looking after every day and I just need some
headspace and to think of nothing.
Or I need to get out and just process the day and I might
think about absolutely everything or just random stuff.
There's like crazy things popping at your head and like,
oh, I wonder what colour like the moon is or you know, like
the smell of things. Looking into the future, do you
have any dream races or a bucket list of races that you still
tick off? Yeah, I would love to do the
Comrades and I think I wish I'd looked into that a bit more at
the time when I was getting like fast 100K times and because I
would have had a qualifier for it.
But it is still going to be there.
If I can maybe get another qualifier, I'd love to go back.
My mum lived in Durban and when my sister was born there, so it
would just be pretty awesome to go out there and yeah, do that.
And everyone says it's like, whilst it's like pretty flattish
road race, it's just really iconic and definitely would take
a box for me. I'd love to do it.
And question that can be dangerously depressing or it can
be the the most achieving thing in the whole podcast.
Is there anybody that you would aspire to or want to run with,
whether they're they're with us, your idol or not?
I know Nikki was wanting to run with you because you're her
running idol now, but who would you want to run with?
This, this is going to sound corny, but one of my favorite
folk to run with is my pal Jack. And she's just like been
somebody. I've ran on and off with it for
the last like 15 years. And yeah, we used to run at
work. We used to put the club
together. Like I'd go down, she'd had her
wee boys and I would go down when she was on her like
postpartum fitness journey to get back.
And there's just never any like need to discuss peace or route
or anything. Just we literally just laced up
her shoes and when. And it was always, just always
really good. Like we would chat and we'd not
chat and just got into a real rhythm together And like I
probably miss that the most. I do a lot of running on my own
or Rob and I run with the pram with everyone, which is amazing.
But I'd love to run if if I could get a weekly run with Jack
Pencil then that would be amusing.
And one question I've just thought of that we didn't have
on the list, and it's a question that we've started asking now,
is how many buffs do you have? See, I'm going to disappoint you
because I I'm not, I don't hoard anything.
I'm a real, I've been stuff all the time.
So you'd probably be pulled. I get quite stressed out when my
wardrobe's full or I'm not wearing stuff.
So stuff is either like in the loft like thinking, oh, I'm not
going to use that. And I maybe have a little
selection of like 5 bits of head where five like T-shirts just
what I need right now in my wardrobe and the rest is away or
it gets sent to a Charlie shop. So I think I've maybe only got
about 5 or 6 buffs. So we would say 5 or 6 the the
next time that that you are going to recycle because you
don't bend them any buffs Nikki wants them.
I'm older. Last question, unless Mike has
got anything else for us, what is next for your running wise?
Do you have anything booked or just continuing to be on the
build? Yeah, I do have a bit of a
curveball. I've got the Trans Grand Canaria
Marathon, which is not a marathon, it's about 49 K.
So yeah, that's in February. So it's not actually that far
away. So yeah, I fancied it.
It was one that I've like kind of on and off looked at for
years and I was like, I'm just, I'm fancying that.
So I just booked it up. So yeah, that the build is on
for that. So that will probably look quite
different to what I have been doing.
So Rob will be tough because it'll be a lot more off road and
he'll be in his element planning my sessions for that because
it's right into his wheelhouse. Finding out about it.
He's like, yeah, that would be the main focus.
Never mind Valencia, Apple make the main Canaria.
And you might as well get the the the foreign races in while
you don't have to pay for an extra seat for every year
because the prices soon rack up when you're starting to pay for
children. I don't know how I'm going to
keep up the needles. She's too, though, for very
long. Right, I think that's the end of
the questions and something that you said on chat before we
started that we're maybe going to steal for a, a, a catch
phrase for the the podcast was PT and chill.
It's just sums up everything we should be doing and running.
Absolutely. So with that being said, let's
say thank you for Joe for coming on agreeing.
And I'm sure Rob's sitting in the other room desperate to
listen to what we're saying. But and thank you to Nikki for
being Nikki and thanks to everybody for listening.
Thank you.