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Welcome back to another episode 
of Run Till You're Done, Today's

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guest. 
I was doing my research and 

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we've probably done about, I 
don't know, 15 or 20 of the same

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races, but we never seem to have
been on the same year. 

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And one year we were doing the 
same race. 

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I was D33, and she finished 
about two hours ahead of me. 

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So I'm going to say that I was 
running with somebody else, but 

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anyway, forget about that. 
The our guest has went from 

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winning the angle Celtic plate 
to, uh, enforced rest, but we'll

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get on to that and she's 
fighting your way back to 

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fitness again. 
Not that she took a break during

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a lot of it. 
But as I say, we'll find out 

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about it. 
And I'm going to predict there's

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going to be quite a lot of 
giggling during this episode 

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because I think we've got 
Nikki's running idol with us 

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tonight. 
We've got Jill Wilson. 

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Welcome Jill, be fun. 
And I'm probably the most 

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nervous though. 
I'll trust that you could not 

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think you'd be nervous about it 
so. 

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Absolutely not. 
Before we get on to all the 

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absolutely epic stuff Mike has 
just mentioned there and 

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chatting about that, how did you
first come into them? 

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Oh see, I've I've actually ran, 
it's probably since like late 

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primary school, just got into my
mum was always into like tennis.

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We were always out walking, just
liked being outdoors. 

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And then the school cross 
Country Club on, I think it was 

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in P7 and they had like a come 
along try. 

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We ran and like the football 
pitch twice and then we went on 

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like the nature trail. 
So it was just maybe like a 

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couple of miles tops. 
And I was like, I actually love 

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this, you know, just being out 
in the fresh air, getting 

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sweaty, working hard. 
And then went to from P7 up to 

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high school, they had like a 
feeder race, what they call it. 

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So all the primary schools that 
were going up to the same high 

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school, we all competed and did 
a race, which I ended up 

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winning. 
I've still got the thought when 

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I'm wearing like must have been 
one of my mum's freebie 

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T-shirts. 
It was like a tenants T-shirt, 

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which is probably not 
appropriate for somebody at like

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12 years old. 
Yeah. 

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Just like that had like lit a 
flame. 

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So then on and off kind of 
throughout school, I did the 

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track and field. 
So I did like a bit of like 

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discus, sort of long jump, did 
hurdles which I was rubbish at 

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and like like 800 metres in 
cross country, competed in like 

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Fife and Scottish schools. 
And then as you do, you kind of 

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come away from it, went to uni 
and then joined the police and 

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got back into it through the 
police. 

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So did like some competitions 
like cross countries 10 mile 

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champs and met my pal Jack 
Wilson through that and then we 

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will start the running club and 
it just has spiralled from 

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running like 5K to running 180 
miles over about a 15 year 

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period. 
So you went from 5K, What would 

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you other than school races, 
what would you class as your 

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first race? 
Yeah, so I was looking back at 

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that because I've, I was like 
thinking, oh, I can't remember 

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when my first race, but I think 
maybe like 2010. 

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I remember doing the Edinburgh 
Half Marathon. 

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It was my first half and it was 
my first race for Carnegie 

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because I didn't have a vest, 
but I was in the club. 

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So that I think it was about 
2010. 

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But I'd maybe done like the 
Dunfermline 10 key and stuff 

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before that and like a few like 
midweek races. 

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But that's probably the stand 
out kind of first race that I 

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did and had the worst DOMS in 
chafing can imagine. 

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Although things haven't improved
because I still get both of 

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those things. 
What do you do to avoid them? 

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Oh and not butter wagging it on 
it doesn't matter like what my 

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weight is like. 
I will chafe like front and back

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everywhere I have to cover 
myself in to toe a bit. 

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And you mentioned 180 mile race,
What, what was that? 

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Yeah, so that was, I did that 
actually with Derek Fish, who 

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is, you might say he's a good 
influence or a bad influence, 

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but he he had floated the idea 
and said he was going to do it. 

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It was the challenge 180. 
So it was like running E 

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Highland Way from Aviemore to 
Fort William, then Fort William 

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down the West Highland Way to 
Mogai. 

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The 180 miles there was only 
maybe about, I think about six 

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of us did it, but I was going to
crew for them. 

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And then I was like, oh, why 
don't I just run it with you? 

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So we ended up running it 
together and it's like 55 hours 

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I think that we're running for. 
But we've done like so many big 

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days out. 
We did. 

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He introduced me to Monroes. 
Loads of like 10 hour days out 

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in hills, out in the trails, 
weekends away, drinking, 

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running. 
So it was like, oh, this would 

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be perfect. 
And it was just like an ace. 

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We celebration of like all the 
running that we've done together

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over the years. 
And actually Martin Hagee was in

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that race. 
I think it was one of his big 

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ones, but he had got the worst 
blisters and I think he dropped 

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out and maybe on the West 
Highway part of it. 

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And but yeah, that's how we 
first got introduced to Martin 

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Hagee. 
And I was like, this guy is 

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mental in all the good phase, 
but and they look at what he's 

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done since then so. 
How? 

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How was the navigation through 
the E Highland way? 

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I've heard it's like overgrowing
and really bad. 

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Yeah, it's pretty boggy as well.
Like if I didn't have Derek 

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there because my watch had died 
about 3 hours and I had the root

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on my watch and the battery just
the life was sucked out of it. 

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So we knew that we were going to
have to stick together anyway. 

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But it's not like it's nothing 
like the West Hill way. 

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It's not a well beaten path at 
all. 

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You're and just find your way 
between points and but some bits

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of it are absolutely stunning. 
And do you have to have crew? 

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You said you were the crew, so 
yeah. 

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We were, so we ran together, but
his wife, Rona, at the time, she

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crewed the first half to Fort 
William. 

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And then from there Iona Mackay 
joined and she cooed with Rona 

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the second-half of it. 
And by that point, like we got 

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to, we didn't sleep at all. 
I was asking for sleep and he 

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said no, no, we'll push on. 
We'll push on. 

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And then we got, I think down to
Tindrum and his van was there. 

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So we jumped in the back there 
and maybe had about an hour and 

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we're like, I don't even think 
we slept. 

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You know, you're all twitchy and
you're trying to sleep, but 

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you're sore and you're just all 
kinds of feelings and got out 

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the van and probably only got to
like the roller coaster section,

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maybe like 3 miles. 
And I had to sleep next to a 

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tree. 
And then we were like, right, 

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we'll get to Ben Glass. 
We'll sleep on the trail. 

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So by the time we got there, I 
was slapping my face and 

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screaming just like try and keep
myself awake because even 

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running I was like, I'm going to
fall asleep while I'm on my 

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feet. 
And it's not like the best path.

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You've got to watch and the 
rocks and things. 

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So we got to Bing last, but the 
midges were out in force. 

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So we're like, well, we can't 
sleep here. 

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So like mortar dawn got to the 
side of the lock and there's a 

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little bothy and it was like, 
you know, you're like almost 

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envisaged envisaged A5 star 
hotel like amazing. 

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Look at this place. 
It's stunning. 

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It was an absolute horrible, but
it's the best sleep we've ever 

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had. 
Like set our sleeping bags, lay 

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down. 
I think we took about an hour to

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90 minutes in there and the 
recharge was unreal. 

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And then we just, we're done to 
the finish. 

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Well, you know that running for 
55 hours with just short sleeps?

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That sounds like a bit like 
you're signing up for a backyard

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alternate. 
Someone that says I'm not doing 

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an ultra, I'm not doing a 
marathon and then here. 

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We are off at the back of that 
55 hours. 

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Is Mike saying as well And the 
lack of sleep. 

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Did you hallucinate much? 
Oh, I just was, it wasn't, I 

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don't even think I was 
hallucinate. 

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And I was just so tired. 
And I couldn't believe you could

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fall asleep while you're 
actually doing something 

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physical. 
Because I could fall asleep in 

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the car if it's somewhat, well, 
even if maybe if I'm driving, 

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but if someone else is driving, 
I could just be like that. 

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And I was amazed at how tired 
and even for weeks after, 

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because you wake up in your own 
bed and you're like, I should be

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running, but you're like, it's 
finished. 

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Like done. 
I'm actually asleep now. 

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It's weird. 
Did did you take caffeine or 

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what was your strategy for that?
Yeah, we were eating, we were 

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doing real food because of like 
the length of time and the 

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intensity wasn't high. 
But if it's anything for me, 

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like up to 100K, even maybe 100 
miles, I I would gel have gels. 

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But if it's stuff like 24 hour 
race and things I am like 

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breakfast, lunch, tea. 
And then I would supplement with

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gels and caffeine. 
Sometimes too much caffeine gels

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gets the old palpitations and I 
don't feel awake. 

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I'm like, I don't know if it's 
just just actually gets your 

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heart racing. 
Yeah, it's not quite good when 

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you're you're so tired that you 
can't sleep because your heart, 

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your adrenaline's pumping. 
So yeah, yeah. 

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But anyway, leading on from 
that, a couple of years down the

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the line, you were running Anglo
Celtic plate and then you ran 

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for JB. 
How did that come about? 

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Yeah, well, that was something 
because I'd done Glenmore 24 

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back in like 2018. 
I think I ran 123 miles and 

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James Stewart said to me, oh, 
you know, like that distance is 

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good enough for like 24 hour 
team. 

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And then he just kind of floated
that idea about like running for

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Scotland. 
And I was like thinking, I'm 

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never going to be good enough 
for that. 

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Like, and it's one of those 
things you shelve, but it is 

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obviously like just maybe like 
working away at the back of your

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head. 
And then I remember it was 2009,

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end of 2018, actually into 2019 
that Adrian Stott and Debbie 

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Kasani had contacted me and said
about running the 100K for 

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Scotland. 
And I was like, Nah, that's not,

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that's not my bag at all. 
And it wasn't actually until the

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March that eventually was like, 
because they were needing 

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someone for the team, like 
you'll be perfect. 

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And I think it was only like 4 
or five weeks before that I was 

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like, OK, yeah, I'll, I'll come 
on the team. 

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But I obviously had been 
training, just not specifically 

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for that. 
I was like, oh, I can do the 

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distance. 
I know that. 

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And I just don't know if I can 
do the distance and the 

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intensity, but went out quite 
conservative. 

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But I still, I finished third 
that year and I was like had 

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just an amazing time. 
Love drumming loops, love the 

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format of it. 
And I was just absolutely 

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delighted. 
So that was like my first out in

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First Scotland and then got a 
bit hooked. 

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Debbie contacts you. 
How do you say no? 

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So like 2020, I think it was. 
I was meant to run as well, but 

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then COVID hit so that got 
cancelled. 

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But that actually was a 
blessing. 

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I ended up just being able to 
batter the train and there was 

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no races, There's no taper, 
there's no like recovery 

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required. 
You were just able to really hit

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hard training and then end of 
COVID run again at Dublin for 

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the 100K on the team and like 
positioned well there. 

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And then we were back in Perth 
for 20/22. 

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And how do you say no to Perth? 
It's on home turf. 

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And then yeah, just had an 
absolute blinder of face. 

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But I think it's because it's 
it's local, everyone's there and

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it's just absolutely buzzing. 
I was loving it. 

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I, I, I had the pleasure. 
I don't even know if you 

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realized I was there crewing for
Kyle when you won that race. 

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00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,760
I think I was like, so in this, 
like I was taking stuff in, but 

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you know, when you're, you're so
in the zone, like I was so just 

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concentrating and focused on all
my times, all my splits, getting

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the fuel in and I it's almost 
like the thing the whole day is 

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a blur, but it's also so vivid. 
Like certain bits of it. 

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It was, it was amazing. 
And the weather was like spot on

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00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,880
as well. 
It's good when it all comes 

223
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,920
together. 
It's not often. 

224
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,480
I was speaking to a few people 
as well, doing my research about

225
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,800
you like from that race as well,
and they say whoever was there, 

226
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,960
it was an absolute buzz to see 
you when. 

227
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:27,640
Like. 
That how How did it feel when 

228
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,200
you crossed the line? 
That's you. 

229
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,520
You've won. 
Do you remember that? 

230
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,040
Yeah, it was funny because I'm 
not like a really conservative 

231
00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,040
place and I'm never at the front
early on. 

232
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,160
I like always, I don't get 
pulled away. 

233
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,360
I will stick to my splits and 
that was my plan. 

234
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,840
And I think I was in like 4th or
5th place because the English 

235
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,600
girls, they run in quite a big 
pack. 

236
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,640
I usually always just run by 
myself. 

237
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,720
If I catch up with somebody, 
I'll run with them for a bit, 

238
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,480
chat for your laps. 
But I really stick to my own 

239
00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,240
strategy. 
So I tried not to like think of 

240
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,200
like quite far down here. 
But as the race progresses, 

241
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,920
we've got kind of 50K and on. 
So if I'm picking off these 

242
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,320
people, I'm getting a bit 
closer. 

243
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,920
And Debbie updates you all the 
time. 

244
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:15,440
She's like your X amount of like
laps behind or time or they've 

245
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,680
just gone through. 
They look rubbish, like you're 

246
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:20,400
looking much stronger and see 
just hearing that you think, all

247
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,600
right, perfect. 
And then I was like 3/4 round 

248
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,880
for the laps and Jack Wilson was
there and she's like Sam Hammond

249
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,720
is right ahead of you. 
You're going to take her. 

250
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,600
And she like was there to 
witness me like come around the 

251
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:37,400
corner and overtake her and 
she's like, yes, right. 

252
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,600
It's my race to lose now because
Sam bleeding. 

253
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,720
I was like, Oh no, like that 
feeling of being then the lead 

254
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,520
person who's getting chased. 
Like I we prefer to be chasing 

255
00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,800
down, but once you overtake, 
you're like, I've got just got 

256
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,520
to carry on things still at 
about 20 K to go or something. 

257
00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:00,400
You're running for your life. 
I always find that paranoia. 

258
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:01,840
You think that somebody's going 
to catch you. 

259
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,760
It's a beautiful motivator. 
Yeah. 

260
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,880
Oh, it's amazing what you like 
the bag as well because you're 

261
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,480
obviously you're pretty burst 
and you're just like you. 

262
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,080
You get something else. 
It just fires something else 

263
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,480
into you. 
And even if somebody was to say 

264
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,040
like they're right behind you, 
there's nothing you could do. 

265
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,440
But mentally you're like, I'm, 
I'm literally doing all I can. 

266
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:23,480
I'm just going to keep going. 
But. 

267
00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:26,480
They're, they're probably 
thinking the same thing. 

268
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:31,720
They're how can I catch them so?
Yeah, I just think pass with 

269
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,560
conviction, even if you're dying
as well. 

270
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,600
Don't, don't, Don't show 
weakness. 

271
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,640
Don't. 
Show it. 

272
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,240
Smile. 
And how, how do you keep going? 

273
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,840
You're saying like 20 K to go 
and that's where you've passed. 

274
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,600
Like how do you tell your brain 
just keep going, keep going, 

275
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,760
because that's still quite a 
distance to keep on going? 

276
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,440
100K or like 100 miles. 
When you take that, it's like 1 

277
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,760
number. 
You think it's a long way, 

278
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,160
there's no denying that. 
But when you're doing those 

279
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,320
loops, you're like right, it's X
amount of loops left. 

280
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,800
It's so I've got about 3 minutes
left of this lap. 

281
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,080
You just break it into like 
little things that like keep you

282
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,400
going and because you have like 
pals either side of the course 

283
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,920
or you're like, right, it's four
more gels or however much fluid,

284
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,240
or because you don't have music,
you're not allowed to wear music

285
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:27,080
now for the ACP. 
So I think I've been dialled in 

286
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,760
thinking I've got my tunes, I've
got my playlist and then you get

287
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,320
there and they're like no 
Scottish athletics, say no 

288
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,520
music. 
So then you're thinking I'm 

289
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,720
literally in my head for like 7 
1/2 hours and you have to just 

290
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,560
be mentally really strong and 
try not let that waver, but you 

291
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,240
know you're going to have rough 
times. 

292
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,280
I think I was in the toilet 
probably in the 1st two hours, 

293
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,840
maybe about 15 times. 
I was just peeing. 

294
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,400
I don't know if it was nerves, 
if it was like over fuelled or 

295
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,800
what it was, but I was like, 
right, I'm I'm losing time here.

296
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,360
But I had to then remember that 
other people are going to need 

297
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,440
to go to the toilet. 
So just go. 

298
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,760
You need to go so you'll catch 
them up. 

299
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:10,319
Just picking up on your, you 
said that no music. 

300
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,079
I I've heard that about Scottish
athletics and I'd say we 

301
00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:17,960
remember about Anglo Kell play. 
That's not a normal Scottish 

302
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,319
athletics rule for for other 
races. 

303
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:26,200
I don't think. 
Is it just for the Anglo Kell 

304
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:31,240
play or do you know more? 
Think so in thinking 2019 I had 

305
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,520
music, but then everyone since 
then there's been no music and 

306
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:37,040
they are obviously closed 
courses. 

307
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,160
It's not for it's not for Rd. 
like closures or anything like 

308
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,160
that is. 
I think it is just one of the 

309
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,000
rules that has been stipulated 
for an Anglo Celtic plate, which

310
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,320
the thought of it, I'm like, oh,
because I always, I always 

311
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,080
change with either music or a 
podcast. 

312
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,720
So then I'm like on that one day
thinking this is something 

313
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,400
completely different. 
Yeah, but I don't mind it 

314
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,720
because there's so much going on
and you are just like having the

315
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,600
old blather or looking around 
and I just, my brain goes wild 

316
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,880
when I'm out running anyway. 
I could have a podcast on, but 

317
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,680
I've got 110 things going 
through my brain at one time. 

318
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,560
I think that's just like 
processing the day. 

319
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,800
And right after you took the 
win, what happened after that 

320
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,160
like the weeks and even the year
a couple of years leading up to 

321
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:34,040
you're in four stressed as Mike 
with a sense what what happened 

322
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,760
in between that periods? 
So that one, the Anglo 

323
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,320
calculating 2022 I, because I'd 
won it, I managed to get a place

324
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,680
for the British and Great 
Britain team to go out to Berlin

325
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,960
in the August. 
So it was a pretty quick turn 

326
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,160
around though. 
You're talking you race 100K in 

327
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,200
April and then you're racing 
another one in August. 

328
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,240
And bearing in mind I just the 
one the August before handed on 

329
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,520
a 24 hour track race. 
So within the space of 12 

330
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:03,760
months, it's a lot of intensity 
on the body. 

331
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,560
Like I think the mileage is OK, 
but it's when you're adding 

332
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,640
intensity and the mileage, 
that's when the body starts to 

333
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,440
say I need a bit of a break. 
And I have never had an injury 

334
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,480
the whole time I've been running
that should. 

335
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,120
But I had a bit of a calf 
strain. 

336
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,440
Like I would even say I popped 
on a run, but I was like in a 

337
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,640
bit of denial between like the 
April and August to the point 

338
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,920
that I think I missed about four
weeks of training. 

339
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,520
And but then I managed to like 
bring it back. 

340
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,760
I went out to Italy because I've
been come part of hours hour 7, 

341
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,520
the team that I obviously met 
Rob on and we'd gone out to 

342
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,960
Italy and I managed to put a 
good training block together 

343
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,640
ahead of that and then came back
and I think I only had a few 

344
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,600
weeks and then went out to 
Berlin. 

345
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,280
But I didn't go out with like a 
massive expectation. 

346
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,360
I thought it's going to be 
warmer. 

347
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,840
It's you're not really racing 
for a time when you go to a big 

348
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,200
race like that. 
You're racing for positioning 

349
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,920
well as a team and just really 
getting round and finishing in a

350
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,280
pretty credible time. 
But I had like ACP was amazing, 

351
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,280
but this was. 
I don't know what it was. 

352
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,040
I was just in such a good 
headspace. 

353
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:18,040
My brother had come out to watch
me race and the Fee and Emma, 

354
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,400
the two girls who ran the 106 
marathons, they'd come out as 

355
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,720
well as a surprise. 
I met them at the airport before

356
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,560
that. 
So I was like just totally, I 

357
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,240
was up for that. 
I was buzzing and it was looked 

358
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,600
coarse again as well. 
And I just had a really like 

359
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,280
progressive race and I managed 
to like chip some time off the 

360
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,680
ACP time. 
And it was just crossing that 

361
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,760
finish line is like the best 
feeling I've ever had because I 

362
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:46,160
had had the flag in my arms and 
like we're in the GB kit. 

363
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,960
And I was like, if I never do 
this again, I will be happy 

364
00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:53,920
because I've had opportunity. 
This is this is like far beyond 

365
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,480
anything I ever thought I'd be 
doing. 

366
00:20:55,480 --> 00:21:00,640
And. 
You mentioned you met Rob and 

367
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,320
for those that don't know, we're
talking about Rob Sinclair, 

368
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:10,120
previous guest as your partner 
and lean on from that and 

369
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:15,480
Nikki's got the next question. 
So after that there was some big

370
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,920
changes since she started You're
running and he got pregnant. 

371
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,440
Yes, it did. 
So Rob and I, this has been like

372
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,720
a whirlwind for like, like it's 
only been like 2 and a bit 

373
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,280
years. 
But yeah, in that time I have 

374
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,520
moved from Fife to Aberdeen. 
We've had a little girl who 

375
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:40,000
turns 1 tomorrow and yeah, life 
has taken a complete like 

376
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,120
U-turn. 
I mean in the best way possible.

377
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,760
Like we've, we're sitting here 
with everything we want and like

378
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,080
just, you just can't believe it 
sometimes. 

379
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,520
But yeah, obviously that impacts
on your running and it was with 

380
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,120
it. 
But we were saying the other 

381
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,320
day, like, obviously, Mike, you 
were at the D33, but I was there

382
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,000
that that was my first thought 
actually. 

383
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,280
And over the years Rob and I 
have like crossed paths at like 

384
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:12,040
the West Highway, the Glencoe 
Marathon, the Glen Ogle, all 

385
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:16,600
these like races, but had never 
really had much conversation 

386
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,640
over those years. 
I think be too shy to speak to 

387
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:25,800
him. 
I think you raced the the year 

388
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:31,000
that he did his first ultra, the
Catherine, he won that. 

389
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,840
That's what got him his place in
the West Island way. 

390
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,600
And you you were doing that race
as well. 

391
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,360
So it's, yeah, you've always 
been in the background. 

392
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,200
I'll never trust you. 
That race for me. 

393
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,400
So how did how did you end up 
meeting with was it just that a 

394
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,600
race or a run an event and just 
get chat and then does it say 

395
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,320
the rest is history? 
Yeah. 

396
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,800
So we we've both been signed up 
to that team, which they were 

397
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,520
like giving us assistance. 
It was training camps. 

398
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,960
There was like assistance with 
kit with all like nutritions, 

399
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,480
Physiology, sports testing and 
things like that. 

400
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,680
So Rob had missed the first trip
which we went down to, oh, I 

401
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,120
forget the name of it, down near
Bristol. 

402
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,840
And we've done like some filming
for the new team setting up, but

403
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,280
he was on APT course. 
So I'd never met him then. 

404
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,720
And then we went down to the 
lakes in the March and they got 

405
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,280
chatting to him. 
And I just, you know, you have 

406
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,120
an impression of somebody and 
then you meet him. 

407
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,360
And Rob could not be like more 
down to earth. 

408
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,720
He's like the most humble, like 
easygoing guy to chat to. 

409
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,160
And I'd actually never spoken to
him. 

410
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,120
And we just blathered for ages. 
I was like, oh, it's really 

411
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:43,760
decent. 
I can't believe he, like, lives 

412
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,880
in Scotland and we've been at 
all these races and never 

413
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,520
actually spoken to him. 
And then Fast forward somewhere,

414
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,800
we went out to training camp in 
Italy and obviously spent more 

415
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,440
time together and yeah, here we 
are. 

416
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,400
You, you say down to earth, but 
I'm not sure that that's a 

417
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,440
proper description of Rob, 
because he he, he doesn't sit 

418
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:03,560
still. 
He is. 

419
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:10,240
He's like a a little yappy dog. 
You must have to be mate with 

420
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:15,880
the sweet. 
Ones that so when? 

421
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,120
You find out you're that you're 
pregnant, that something that 

422
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:23,040
mate can't relate to is actually
being pregnant. 

423
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,840
Like how does that change for 
you? 

424
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,200
Felt like, because for myself, 
and I wasn't even running at 

425
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,400
that point or anything, I was 
very, very all protective and 

426
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,080
oh, can I do this? 
Can I do that? 

427
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,240
How? 
How did that all go? 

428
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,160
Yeah, so it was a it was a plan 
thing. 

429
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:42,920
And it's it's one of those 
things you're like, when's the 

430
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,440
best time? 
Because we'd spoken. 

431
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,400
Do we wait another year? 
Because I had the track 100 

432
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,400
planned in the April of that 
year. 

433
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,000
And I was obviously going to go 
for the British record, which I 

434
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,600
felt like I was in shape for. 
But yeah, I felt pregnant in the

435
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,040
March of 2023. 
And I was still like, can I 

436
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,200
maybe still do the track 100? 
But I didn't want to risk 

437
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,960
anything. 
And I was like, running will 

438
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,240
always be there. 
I could come back to this. 

439
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,360
So just really wanted to respect
being pregnant and to be honest,

440
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:15,480
probably it was quite looking 
forward to a bit of the break 

441
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:21,280
because I've probably since 
about 2019-2020 been all in on 

442
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,600
running. 
It was all these like little 

443
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,800
goals that I had to get a 
Scotland vest again and 

444
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,920
potentially get AGB vest either 
for the 100K or the 24 hour. 

445
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,680
And I just thought that was my 
time to have a bit of a rest. 

446
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,480
But I've always been a gym goer 
and I dabbled in CrossFit. 

447
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:42,240
Like 2011 to 2014, I was going 
to CrossFit like 3 or 4 times a 

448
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,320
week. 
I've been back in doing that in 

449
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,480
like 20/17/2018. 
So I knew that I could revert 

450
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,840
back to some gym work, which I 
do anyway and I enjoy it. 

451
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:57,280
And thankfully Rob, who's APT as
well, was doing a pre and post 

452
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,440
Natal course to assist me 
through the pregnancy. 

453
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,480
So we kind of had this little 
project that we could work on 

454
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,520
together and it meant I just 
didn't have to put any thought 

455
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,560
into my training whatsoever. 
Rob would plan it all out for 

456
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,280
me. 
So it was just a really good way

457
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,360
of like reframing training. 
It was more like you're going to

458
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:20,200
be doing good movement. 
It's all about functional 

459
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,560
movement for being mobile and 
able through pregnancy to try 

460
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,560
and then carry that strength 
into like the recovery after 

461
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,000
having the baby. 
I thought I'd maybe be able to 

462
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,360
run for longer than I did, but I
think I got to maybe it was the 

463
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,360
September of that year and I did
the Skyline 5K. 

464
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,320
Well, it's quite an arduous task
because I was rather large at 

465
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,320
that point and I thought that's 
probably my last run. 

466
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,080
So I think I'm done for about 
another week after that. 

467
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,880
But I see, I see. 
I continued running. 

468
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,480
I probably did like 10 to 15 
miles a week, which was a 

469
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,800
massive step down from my like 
60 to 70 that I'd been doing. 

470
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,360
But I wasn't really bothered. 
I was just happy to get out 

471
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:06,600
walking movement. 
I just like, you know, outdoors 

472
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,160
and I like lifting weights. 
So I was able to get my fix in 

473
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,000
some way. 
Is it something that? 

474
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,800
Sorry mate. 
Something I just remembered 

475
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,760
about the when you and Rob 
obviously had been told that you

476
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,840
were pregnant and you you hadn't
been ready to tell everybody 

477
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,400
else yet because it's probably 
doctor's orders until a certain 

478
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:33,200
time, but you'd came back from 
wherever it was you were abroad.

479
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,680
And Rob said to me and text, Oh,
Joe's, Joe's not feeling well. 

480
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,840
She's been, she's been ill for 
about a week now. 

481
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,080
And I replied and said is she 
pregnant? 

482
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,760
Radio silence for about 3 weeks 
and then the announcement was 

483
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,440
made. 
It was one of those things 

484
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,120
because you feel like it's 
really obvious when you're a 

485
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:56,080
runner and you're like, I'm 
obviously on Strava and 

486
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,240
everybody knew I had this big 
race coming up as well. 

487
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,560
So I think I maybe got COVID on 
the plane home from Turkey as 

488
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:08,160
well because I was very ill, but
it just coincided with also 

489
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,240
being pregnant. 
I was just lying to everybody 

490
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:17,720
like well, but I was very 
protective and anxious and 

491
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,120
apprehensive about announcing 
anything and I waited. 

492
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,320
I think I came to the West 
Highland way actually because I 

493
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,000
was crooning for Jack in the 
Dunes. 

494
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,040
We'd, I think I'd just had my 12
week scan and I just actually at

495
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,640
the time I remember thinking 
this is so obvious and pregnant.

496
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,920
I look back at those photos now,
you wouldn't even know. 

497
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,720
But in your own head you're 
like, oh, it's got this bump. 

498
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,760
But it just looked like I've had
a big meal. 

499
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:49,600
So that when everybody else kind
of found out about, it felt like

500
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,120
I just, it was so obvious, but 
it probably wasn't. 

501
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:59,240
And later on, now that you've 
obviously had the baby, question

502
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,840
from Rob was how do you cope 
with two hyper babies in the 

503
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,000
house, one being him and one 
being. 

504
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,000
It is not easy. 
She's a chip off the old block, 

505
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,360
let me tell you. 
I've just had to tell him to 

506
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,240
calm down because it's been time
and she was fine. 

507
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,320
She's winding her up. 
So yes, he is very hyperactive. 

508
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,240
And, and when, when he was on 
the podcast, you asked the 

509
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:33,280
question of him and it was along
the lines of what do you think 

510
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:37,520
the her chances are given her, 
her gene pool. 

511
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,560
So question to you, what do you 
think her chances are? 

512
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,080
Oh, I just, I would love for her
to to enjoy the outdoors and I 

513
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,240
think if I could just or both of
us can just plant the seed with 

514
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,000
her because it something that 
kind of came and went from my 

515
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,240
life. 
Like I always knew I liked the 

516
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,760
outdoors, but I didn't quite 
find my thing until like I 

517
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,360
really got into the running 
probably when I was either like 

518
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,080
hit my early 20s and I became a 
bit more focused on it. 

519
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:10,680
So I just hope she gets to 
explore some kind of outdoor fun

520
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,800
and activity that either she'll 
pick up when she's a teenager or

521
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,240
in later life. 
But yeah, I'd love her to go and

522
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,720
annihilate some records and 
things that nothing would make 

523
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:28,040
me more proud. 
And post Natalie, how soon we 

524
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,200
how soon after we back on the 
fitness did you have to go and 

525
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,600
get post Natal checks from the 
doctors and midwives and 

526
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,720
everything like that? 
Yeah. 

527
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,840
So I had, she was a planned 
section. 

528
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,640
So after that like my recovery 
went quite well from that. 

529
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,720
There was no complications or 
anything, but by that point I 

530
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,680
was forced on heavier than I was
when I'd fallen pregnant, so 

531
00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:01,080
you've got that to contend with.
So my rebuild was very much 

532
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,080
centred around rebuilding 
strength literally from the 

533
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:10,480
inside out, and it was to always
be the main focus over the 

534
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:11,960
running. 
The running was then sprinkled 

535
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,120
in, but I didn't start really 
any of that to like six weeks 

536
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,800
after I'd had her. 
But I went and got the mummy MOT

537
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,000
and everything looked to be OK. 
I had a tiny little separation 

538
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,520
of my ABS, but it was like high 
ABS, more under, like my rib 

539
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,080
cage because that's where she 
had nestled for about the last 

540
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,680
10 weeks of the pregnancy, 
upside down with her feet up 

541
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,920
there. 
So yeah, everything was as 

542
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,000
smooth as it could be. 
But it's really hard to move 

543
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,480
your body when you're forced on 
heavier than you're used to 

544
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,320
moving, especially when you're 
asking it to do like a movement 

545
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,760
like running, which involves the
whole body. 

546
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,480
I think at my first run was like
15 minutes and it was quite hard

547
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,360
going. 
And it's, it's still hard. 

548
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,800
I still notice that I'm having 
to work harder than I probably 

549
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,360
did before, even though I'm back
to some reasonable fitness now. 

550
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:14,040
But the strength has been a real
key factor in making sure that 

551
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,000
I'm coming back and I'm not 
developing any injuries or 

552
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,480
everything is more aligned. 
I'm trying to make sure that 

553
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,160
I've got like strength in the 
smaller muscles that are 

554
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,760
supporting muscles. 
So like my program that Rob had 

555
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,720
set me in the gym while so I was
pregnant is very different now. 

556
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,280
And this one is more focused on 
like the movement around 

557
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,160
running. 
So I do uphill athlete, which is

558
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,320
like the Chamonix Mountain 
Fitness programme. 

559
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,280
It's designed for like alpinists
and things and it's actually 

560
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,400
really good. 
I just follow a video online. 

561
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,920
Most of the movements are body 
weight and they're all very 

562
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,920
functional and it's just to get 
you working in all planes of 

563
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,160
motion. 
Yeah, I really enjoy it. 

564
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,320
It's never like a chore for me 
to do strength work. 

565
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,360
I don't see it as a or I could 
be out running and I'm having to

566
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,240
do this. 
I see it as that is what is 

567
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:13,960
keeping me out running now. 
So is strength work The the main

568
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,760
thing now is you got to put 
running to one side and just get

569
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,840
buff, yeah. 
It just get torn. 

570
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,280
Nah, but I do it do it like 
twice a week usually. 

571
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:29,360
Now it's funny though, because 
my running volume, I think I'm 

572
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,320
up to like about 40 miles on a 
like top end week, which I know 

573
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,680
it's all like relative to the 
individual, but I just, I don't 

574
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,200
know how I ever did any more 
than that. 

575
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:45,200
I know I didn't have a, a small 
human to, to keep alive And but 

576
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,920
I also worked full time, whereas
now I'm obviously I'm on 

577
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,160
maternity leave. 
I'm not working. 

578
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,160
So just the juggle is just very 
different. 

579
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,440
But it just means that Rob and I
have to really be very concise. 

580
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,520
We sit down on a Sunday night 
and we look to what the 

581
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,120
activities are for the week 
ahead, what everyone's got on, 

582
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,320
what he's got on, what I've got 
on, what social things we've got

583
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,159
and we try and build my weeks 
around that and and jobs as 

584
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:14,760
well. 
So it is very much a busy weekly

585
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,120
calendar of plans and it's not 
just all centred around 

586
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,360
training, but it's something 
that's really important to us 

587
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,120
both and it's what we like 
doing, so we make it work. 

588
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:31,080
And maternity leaves must be 
almost over. 

589
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:35,120
Do you think that's going to be 
a a shock to everybody's system 

590
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,199
when you're not going to have 
time to do anything because 

591
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:40,760
you'll be good working and then 
that's it? 

592
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,719
Yeah, I'm like, I totally don't 
know where this is going to fit 

593
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,320
into the week. 
So yeah, I'll be, I think I'll 

594
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,840
be like back 3 three days a week
during the week with the odd 

595
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,000
weekend. 
But yeah, it'll be involving 

596
00:34:56,000 --> 00:35:00,040
nursery drop offs, pickups, just
a bit more planning and and then

597
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,240
if there's going to grow and 
she's going to have activities 

598
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:05,880
of her own and things. 
So time is just going to change 

599
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,400
and develop. 
But we'll just have to work 

600
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,480
around that. 
And I think we both just accept 

601
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:15,200
that maybe during this time of 
her life, things just have to be

602
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,720
about everyone. 
They're not about us. 

603
00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:20,640
But if we can get our own time 
in amongst that, then that's 

604
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,160
great. 
And now that you have the family

605
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,480
unit, I don't actually want to 
move away from this section 

606
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,800
quite yet. 
Because you'd signed up to 

607
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,720
Valencia Marathon, is that 
right? 

608
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,080
Yeah, yeah. 
And I don't want to go brush 

609
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,520
past this because what you've 
done the other weekend, that 

610
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,640
scene was amazing. 
Can we talk about that? 

611
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,480
So I had, it was, I think 
everything was like 2 weeks old 

612
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,040
and our friend Simon Tessa had 
signed up for Valencia. 

613
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,920
I was like, oh, I actually do. 
I'd love to do that. 

614
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,520
And a year after giving birth, a
year is plenty of time, which 

615
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,920
let me tell you, a year goes 
when you're rebuilding fitness 

616
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,680
and raising a child. 
So it just somewhat crept off on

617
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:07,560
me. 
But I had been trained and I've 

618
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,720
like had a few smaller goals and
then 5K10 KS, half marathons. 

619
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:19,320
And I felt like the rebuild was,
it was sensible but progressive 

620
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,240
at the same time. 
We just didn't want it to be 

621
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,800
something that like would be two
steps forward, one step back. 

622
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,760
And then then it has all been 
very much like progressed in the

623
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,560
way that, well, I'd hoped it 
would. 

624
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,760
So yeah, Valencia, there was bad
flooding. 

625
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,440
So I was like, oh, it's not 
meant to be. 

626
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,840
And then they said the race is 
still going ahead. 

627
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,120
So we've packed up the car, went
down, stayed in Edinburgh the 

628
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,280
night before, went to the 
airport. 

629
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,960
We were about to board and they 
said there was a delay. 

630
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,120
So we had a connecting flight 
from Edinburgh to Dublin, Dublin

631
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,000
to Valencia and they were like, 
we're going to miss their 

632
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,480
connecting flight if this is 
delete anymore. 

633
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,520
And then it got further delayed 
and we're like, Oh no. 

634
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,360
And the bags, they were already 
set through. 

635
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,720
So I was like, are we going to 
have to go to Dublin to then 

636
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:08,640
come back? 
But Long story short, we got the

637
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,200
bag off and then we drove home 
to Aberdeen. 

638
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,760
But I had had this little backup
plan in the pipeline. 

639
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,600
I had booked the Croft Circuit 
marathon when the Valencia 

640
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,760
floods happened. 
So I thought, I have a backup 

641
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,280
should everything go wrong. 
And Rob had asked me if I'd 

642
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,640
cancelled it that week going to 
Valencia and I was like, Nah, I 

643
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,800
just haven't, I'm just going to 
wait till we're on the plane. 

644
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:37,280
And I'm glad I did because we 
then came home, repacked winter 

645
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,040
gear to then go down South. 
So then on the Saturday we drove

646
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,600
down to Darlington and then the 
Sunday was the marathon. 

647
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,800
But Rob was like, oh, I've 
signed up for the 10 mile and 

648
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:49,840
I'm going to do the buggy with 
every. 

649
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,160
We were like, oh, hey, so we'll 
all be on the same track. 

650
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,440
And I'm thinking, I've raced on 
a motor circuit like this 

651
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,360
before. 
This is my comfort zone. 

652
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,200
It's tarmac, it's loops. 
Like it's going to be nice and 

653
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,640
cool. 
It's what we've been training 

654
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,520
in. 
And it was just everything I'd 

655
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,560
like, expected. 
It was amazing. 

656
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,720
Yeah. 
And they were romping round 

657
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,080
ripped past me. 
They actually won the 10 mile 

658
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,880
race like these club runners. 
And Rob's got her in the buggy, 

659
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,880
so yeah, it's like, this is 
amazing. 

660
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:29,680
So the the family went home 
happy because I think you 

661
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,600
brushed over it there. 
But you won your race, didn't 

662
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,320
you? 
Yeah, I mean, there was four 

663
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,880
women in my race as. 
I said to you pre chat you can 

664
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,720
only race against people that 
turn up. 

665
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,320
So nobody, if nobody else turned
up and you were the only one 

666
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,760
there, you still won. 
But it wasn't the case. 

667
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,880
There was other people there and
you still won. 

668
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:56,360
So it was just. 
Just when as well as I like you,

669
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,880
you never know where you're at. 
I think if you come back from 

670
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,880
injury or illness, you're, 
you're just never quite sure 

671
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,920
where the boys are or even where
to picture these. 

672
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,720
Because I'm like, oh, well, what
pace do I run at now? 

673
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,720
Like how, how do I know how to 
how to do all these things? 

674
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:15,280
But there's just something that 
you like, I just managed to dial

675
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,800
in and and get it right. 
You don't always, but I think 

676
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,320
you just become more in tune 
with your body the more like 

677
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,320
time that you you have to to run
and you just get a bit more used

678
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,920
to what you what you would know 
your body is capable of. 

679
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,120
Rob always gets it right for me.
He's like, oh, I knew you would 

680
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,040
run this time. 
And I'd written this down. 

681
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,920
I'd messaged my pals saying that
I'm like, how do you know? 

682
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,960
But he prescribes my training. 
So the fact that he has that 

683
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,360
also dialled in just gives me 
faith that he's prescribing the 

684
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,040
right things for me. 
And that's. 

685
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,800
What I'd said to you as well, 
like before without Valencia, I 

686
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,200
was off and I was wishing you 
luck. 

687
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,680
I said it's really exciting 
because no matter what happens 

688
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,800
you're going to PB your first 
event as a mum. 

689
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,560
Yeah. 
Well, it doesn't, you know, it 

690
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,640
doesn't really matter saying. 
Why? 

691
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,520
Well, I wouldn't have thought it
would. 

692
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,360
I don't know. 
Does it matter to you saying? 

693
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,480
I think I, I always have a goal 
whenever I say, oh, I'm not like

694
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,480
I'm not like that focused on a 
goal, Like it just wouldn't be 

695
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,280
true to me. 
I, I think I always have 

696
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,520
something in mind that I want to
achieve. 

697
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:28,320
I always think those goals are 
quite realistic. 

698
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,160
I'm never, never over expect for
myself. 

699
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,400
But I said to Rob, if I can get 
between 3:20 and 3:25, I would 

700
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:40,040
be absolutely over the moon. 
If I was like sub 330, I'd be 

701
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:43,680
happy. 
And those goals kind of became a

702
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,440
bit more concise over the time, 
over the training. 

703
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,000
And I think when I'd first had 
her, I was like, oh, if I could 

704
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,200
go sub four, I'd be delighted. 
But I just knew that I was 

705
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,840
capable of of that. 
And that was on like a really 

706
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,720
good day. 
But I mean, if she had been up, 

707
00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:00,400
she'd she'd been sick in the bed
the night before. 

708
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:03,960
Like everything that could go 
wrong, like having to drive down

709
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,040
in the car for seven hours, like
all these things. 

710
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,000
But that's just my life now. 
Like I'm, I'm not able to go and

711
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,160
bank a full night's sleep and 
guarantee a funfy bed and no 

712
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,920
interruptions. 
I just have to roll with what 

713
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,040
I've got now. 
And like, I wouldn't change it. 

714
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,920
It's just, it's what it is. 
And it probably makes it even 

715
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,320
more special when you do achieve
something because you think, oh 

716
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,920
God, like how did I manage that 
with all these missiles thrown 

717
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,040
my way And I. 
Just think if if you can win a 

718
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,040
race with all the things going 
wrong, everything not going to 

719
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,560
plan. 
Imagine if you go back to Perth 

720
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,360
now and you have a Perth day 
where the weather's fantastic, 

721
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:49,040
you're everything just works, 
who knows what's going to 

722
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,760
happen? 
I know, I know. 

723
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:58,040
And with all the various events 
that you've run through your 

724
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,880
life, which one can you pick a 
favorite? 

725
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:07,200
Oh, it's it's funny because it 
depends like running for Great 

726
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,240
Britain was amazing, but doing 
like, you know, like the little 

727
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,480
personal challenges you set 
yourself. 

728
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,400
Like it was like post COVID, 
like running the coastal path in

729
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,760
Fife over two days. 
Like some of those things that 

730
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,280
aren't races have been some of 
the best days out or like a big 

731
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,880
day doing the Morris 10 with 
like mates and just things that 

732
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,760
you're like that was just even 
like on Saturday there Rob and I

733
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,000
went and did 10 miles at Benihi 
in like Storm Data and we were 

734
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,920
like, this is literally the best
day out we've had in ages and 

735
00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:42,720
there's nothing special about 
it. 

736
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:47,320
But it was just like raw fun on 
terrain that we just love those.

737
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,280
Milk are all. 
The prize looked amazing. 

738
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,080
Something that you said to me 
during the summer when I was I 

739
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,640
think 3 or 4 days in the West 
Island way. 

740
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,080
You just, you said to me that 
you just couldn't get fed up 

741
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:09,480
running on that kind of trail. 
And that that kind of leads on 

742
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:15,800
to another question from Rob. 
He's he used to be what he 

743
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:20,480
describes as a road chode and 
now you're a trail lover. 

744
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,320
Comments on that? 
I know it's funny because I, I 

745
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,400
probably wouldn't define myself 
as like, oh, I'm a Roadrunner 

746
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,160
trail runner, but when you look 
at my CV, you'd be like, oh, 

747
00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:37,720
she's just predominantly road or
track because that's generally 

748
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:42,040
what I've raced on. 
But I love like any kind of 

749
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:47,360
terrain, any running anywhere 
and particularly do enjoy like 

750
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,480
the trails, but I think for ease
and time efficiency to go from 

751
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,320
your front door, especially 
living in a city centre that is 

752
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,760
just tarmac like 90% of the 
time. 

753
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,640
So I think when you do get a 
chance to go away and enjoy some

754
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,760
like, oh, just some fresh air 
away from the city, it's just an

755
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,280
absolute dream. 
And it probably is more special 

756
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:10,680
because it's not all the time 
now. 

757
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,800
Me, me and Nikki had a 
conversation, I think it was 

758
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,600
last week, saying what, what 
type of runner are you? 

759
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,200
It was a podcast that I'd been 
on years ago. 

760
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,160
And are you a trail runner? 
Are you a Roadrunner? 

761
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,360
I'm, I'm a runner. 
I'm doesn't matter. 

762
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,160
I just like running. 
So is that what you're saying 

763
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,400
now? 
Yeah, I would say I just like if

764
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,120
you said to me or you can't run 
on tarmac again, I'd be like not

765
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:40,040
bothered, like you'll have play 
a runner if I had to run the 

766
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,760
treadmill for the rest of my 
time wouldn't be ideal. 

767
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,200
But I just, I think I just, you 
know, like that escapism, like 

768
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,600
as a kid, like you're just like 
like Forrest Gump, you're just 

769
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,240
running like not necessarily 
with anywhere to go, but it's 

770
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:55,960
just like that freedom of it. 
I just, I just love it. 

771
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,960
Yeah, I'm not sure I would go as
far as saying I enjoy the 

772
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:06,920
treadmill. 
Right. 

773
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,440
Next question that we've got on 
our list is crewing. 

774
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,640
You said that you had, was it 
Jacks crewing for your 180 race 

775
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,840
And no, it was the Anglo Celtic 
plate that you said she was run 

776
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,520
crewing for. 
Have you crewed for people who 

777
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,720
normally cruise for you? 
Yeah, so I I've crewed for, I've

778
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,920
crewed for Derek at the tour, 
which like that is crewing on 

779
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,640
steroids. 
That is amazing. 

780
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,360
That was a big holiday, big like
adventure for me as well. 

781
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,920
But yeah, I normally like I've 
had Neil, who used to coach me 

782
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,920
from run the cover. 
He's crude for me. 

783
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,720
He's a master of spreadsheets 
and splits and times and he's so

784
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:55,000
cool and calm. 
He's amazing to have one crew. 

785
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,600
And Derek Fish and Iona McKay 
have crude for me quite a lot. 

786
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,880
I had Debbie Kinsani, which was 
like, can't believe David. 

787
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,480
He chase my bottle bitch. 
Like this is amazing. 

788
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,400
How lucky am I? 
But poor Kyle Gregg. 

789
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,320
This is at the ACP in 2021. 
He got some of my bottles, my 

790
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,800
like Salomon flasks, which the 
tops were like black mold. 

791
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,040
That's what upset his race and 
his tummy. 

792
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:25,920
I don't know. 
I've been finding them for 

793
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,200
years. 
So yeah, crude Jack at the West 

794
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,680
Helen May and Iona at the West 
Helen May as well. 

795
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,680
But the tour is like up there 
with one of the best crew and 

796
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:42,600
experiences ever. 
Just for listeners, the tour is 

797
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:48,760
the Tour de Giants 220, I think 
kilometers starting in Cormier 

798
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,480
going into the Pyrenees is it? 
I can't remember. 

799
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:59,520
Very key, I think it is 
actually, yeah, it's about a 

800
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,680
couple 100 miles, which seems 
mental, but because I'd done the

801
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,320
180 with Derek and he said do 
you want to come out? 

802
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,440
It was my first time driving 
abroad, which was a new 

803
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,240
experience when I was staying in
my own accommodation because I 

804
00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:16,600
was getting myself between like 
the places that he was going to 

805
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,360
be. 
I remember getting there. 

806
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,840
I'd parked up in this car park 
with no lights one night. 

807
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,800
I couldn't have my phone out, 
try to find this accommodation. 

808
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,720
And then this guy from Italy had
come up to you. 

809
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:33,000
This was in a dark alleyway. 
And I know that this, this, this

810
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,960
didn't feel right. 
And he's like, oh, do you need 

811
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,640
help? 
And I was like, Nah, I'm fine. 

812
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,360
I was saying, oh, I'm actually 
trying to look for this place. 

813
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,440
And he's like, come this way 
with me. 

814
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,600
It is. 
And everything was telling me, 

815
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,800
do not go with this guy. 
And I actually text Rob because 

816
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,560
he was out crewing as well for 
Natalie Britton. 

817
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,120
And I was like, I just need to 
let you know, like, this is 

818
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,840
what's happening. 
Hear from me like you need to 

819
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,080
let someone know. 
But this guy was the nicest guy.

820
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,800
You actually accommodation and 
like knew the woman at the B&B. 

821
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,760
And I was like, I like, felt so 
bad. 

822
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:12,360
I honestly thought my life is 
going to end here tonight but 

823
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,720
then managed to get the whole 
crew and experience done and it 

824
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:19,600
was just amazing. 
It was like being on like a me 

825
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,400
being on a multi day like 
adventure with Derek. 

826
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,600
He was obviously racing the 
whole race but I ran up to some 

827
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:29,320
points to get to meet him at 
like the Refugio's had a hot 

828
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,680
chocolate or a beer and it was 
just like we were just out for 

829
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,760
like this awesome week long 
adventure in in naps. 

830
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,240
It was amazing. 
Yeah, and just just in case 

831
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:45,160
anybody thought that the the 
Tour or 22 de Giants sounds like

832
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,440
a a big race, It's actually the 
the baby of the two races 

833
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,200
because if you finish the Tour, 
you you're allowed to enter the 

834
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,600
Tour de was it Tour de Glaciers,
which is longer and bigger? 

835
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,040
And yeah, if you ever think 
you're doing something big, 

836
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:02,560
there's always something worse. 
And. 

837
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:07,400
I think that one's. 
I think the NAV on that one is 

838
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,400
is much more extreme as well. 
It's like 450 kilometres. 

839
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,920
And yeah, that sounds like a 
different ball game. 

840
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:19,440
But just being involved in that,
you know, when you're thinking, 

841
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,240
oh, I would never do this, but 
I'm happy to crew for it. 

842
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:26,000
But then you come away and 
think, oh, maybe I will do this 

843
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,280
one day. 
It's it's just bizarre how 

844
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,040
you're like mind goes from 
saying never do that. 

845
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:32,720
No, I'm happy for Derek to do 
that. 

846
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:36,960
But then I'm like, oh, maybe. 
So that sounds like you're 

847
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,880
signing up, you've got a 
backyard ultra and a tour they 

848
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,400
do right. 
OK, you've. 

849
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,600
Got anyone I could do that? 
For the tall that you have to 

850
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:53,720
have a crew, is that mandatory? 
Nah, you don't, but I, I 

851
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:57,040
actually couldn't imagine how 
anybody would finish it because 

852
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,040
you've got your life bases. 
They transport your bag from 

853
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:04,200
point to point. 
But in terms of that, like, 

854
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,840
like, how do you then think, 
right, I'm going to charge my 

855
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,280
watch, I'm going to charge my 
phone, I'm going to sleep, I'm 

856
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,800
going to set an alarm, I'm going
to sort my feet out, change my 

857
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:17,000
shoes and get my food. 
Like Derek was just like a 

858
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,120
zombie and an absolute mess at 
some of them. 

859
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,120
But then you're like taking 
control of the situation. 

860
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,760
And then obviously the smell and
some of these life bases was 

861
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,840
like, it was like a graveyard. 
It was awful. 

862
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:36,680
The feet, the sweat, the DO. 
It was so strong, but it's like 

863
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,720
it's almost like ingrained in 
your nose and you're like, Oh 

864
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:44,640
yeah, that was the door. 
It was just like awful smell. 

865
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,200
I remember being up at the top 
Agwell de MIDI, which is 

866
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:54,120
Chamonix, and nobody was being 
sick at the time, but all you 

867
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,560
could smell was that ingrained 
altitude sickness. 

868
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,520
Wherever you went, you you 
couldn't go into like there was 

869
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,760
a, a cafe at the top of the ski 
lift. 

870
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,480
It's like, Nah, I'll go and sit 
outside because it was just, oh,

871
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,640
I don't know how anybody could 
eat in that place. 

872
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,920
It's almost like an incentive to
just get through something like 

873
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,200
the tour as quick as you can 
before these places get so bad 

874
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:22,200
with like bodies and smells. 
But of course, now that you've 

875
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,720
went through parenthood or not 
through because there's still a 

876
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:30,720
long way to go yet, but you're 
used to that sort of ingrained 

877
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:34,400
somebody's been sick in here, so
now you can cope with a Tor. 

878
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,480
Well, sometimes got to ask Rob 
if it's him or every hour. 

879
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:43,920
Like the chat, it's quite a 
regular question in this house. 

880
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:52,160
So leading on from that, well, 
it's not leading, it's changing 

881
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,680
the subject. 
What's your biggest running 

882
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:02,800
achievement? 
Oh, it's weird because there's 

883
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,920
been, there's been so many and 
there's things like I'm proud of

884
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:09,560
separate, like different levels.
But I think like when you do 

885
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:12,880
your first marathon, it's always
pretty special because it's your

886
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,040
first time ever, like covering 
that distance. 

887
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:21,640
And yeah, just that's been 
pretty special running 100K for 

888
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,040
the first time, running the 24 
hour track race, because you 

889
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:29,440
don't know if you can can 
complete these distances and 

890
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,800
then you do it and you're like, 
oh, like I can do that. 

891
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:38,360
Like what else can I do then? 
Or how much faster can I go? 

892
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,920
So it's not always been the 
races I think that have done the

893
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:46,200
best, that it's just maybe being
like me saying, oh, I can 

894
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,800
actually do this like and that 
like. 

895
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,080
I've never gone back to the West
Highland race since I had an 

896
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:54,400
amazing race in 2017. 
But I would love to do it again.

897
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,760
But I need to find out why I 
would go back. 

898
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,200
Would it slowly be for a better 
time or like what would be my 

899
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,520
reason? 
Because that experience was just

900
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,480
like Unreal had an amazing race 
and I felt good and I ran like 

901
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,520
the last 26 miles with my mate 
Martin because we were both 

902
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,400
placed at that same bit. 
And it was just, it was just the

903
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,560
best like feeling ever to like 
be doing that. 

904
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,680
And the wind was lashing off our
faces. 

905
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,000
But we're like, we were training
buddies as well. 

906
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,680
So we're like, this is just like
a day out. 

907
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:31,240
It's me and you. 
And you say about why you'll go 

908
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,200
back and do certain events. 
Why? 

909
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,520
What is your wife for running as
a as a whole? 

910
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,320
I just love it. 
I think it's just always been 

911
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,200
like intertwined and all like 
aspects of my life. 

912
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:50,080
My mum had passed away when I 
was 16 and it was just a bit of 

913
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,040
an escape then as well. 
And it's it's probably always 

914
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,760
been the most consistent thing 
in my life. 

915
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:59,320
Like it's always there whether 
you need it or don't need it. 

916
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,440
You can go back to it. 
It can be as cheap as you want 

917
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,000
or as expensive as you want, but
it's just always there and it 

918
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,840
just always makes you feel good 
as well. 

919
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:13,600
I just love it. 
And you, you said about the ACP,

920
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,680
you're not allowing headphones, 
but you normally run with 

921
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,320
headphones. 
Obviously if there's a podcast 

922
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:22,040
or whatever, you're being fed 
information in your your brain 

923
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:26,160
that you're probably not even 
listening to, but what do you 

924
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:31,360
think about when you're running?
Yeah, sometimes absolutely 

925
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:34,680
nothing. 
Like I could probably just be 

926
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,320
completely zoned out. 
I could even have a podcast in 

927
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,960
and just maybe think I haven't 
even listened to any of that. 

928
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,280
Or I could be completely in tune
with it. 

929
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:47,720
Like I listened to did the 
Saltire 12 hour and I had a like

930
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:50,600
a crime book on and I listened 
to the whole crime. 

931
00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,880
It was like true crime thing and
I've listened to that and it's 

932
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:58,440
like digested every little bit 
of that and I think, oh, did I 

933
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,720
even take in my surroundings and
scenery? 

934
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:03,000
I think it depends what I need 
that day. 

935
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,040
Sometimes I need to get out 
because it's just been like a 

936
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,720
crazy day looking after every 
day and I just need some 

937
00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:11,360
headspace and to think of 
nothing. 

938
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,240
Or I need to get out and just 
process the day and I might 

939
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,640
think about absolutely 
everything or just random stuff.

940
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,360
There's like crazy things 
popping at your head and like, 

941
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,960
oh, I wonder what colour like 
the moon is or you know, like 

942
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:29,920
the smell of things. 
Looking into the future, do you 

943
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,880
have any dream races or a bucket
list of races that you still 

944
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,480
tick off? 
Yeah, I would love to do the 

945
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,680
Comrades and I think I wish I'd 
looked into that a bit more at 

946
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:46,680
the time when I was getting like
fast 100K times and because I 

947
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,240
would have had a qualifier for 
it. 

948
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:50,600
But it is still going to be 
there. 

949
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,400
If I can maybe get another 
qualifier, I'd love to go back. 

950
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,320
My mum lived in Durban and when 
my sister was born there, so it 

951
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:01,200
would just be pretty awesome to 
go out there and yeah, do that. 

952
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:05,920
And everyone says it's like, 
whilst it's like pretty flattish

953
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:10,840
road race, it's just really 
iconic and definitely would take

954
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:12,240
a box for me. 
I'd love to do it. 

955
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:20,840
And question that can be 
dangerously depressing or it can

956
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:25,520
be the the most achieving thing 
in the whole podcast. 

957
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:32,240
Is there anybody that you would 
aspire to or want to run with, 

958
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:36,160
whether they're they're with us,
your idol or not? 

959
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,560
I know Nikki was wanting to run 
with you because you're her 

960
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:42,000
running idol now, but who would 
you want to run with? 

961
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:50,280
This, this is going to sound 
corny, but one of my favorite 

962
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:54,600
folk to run with is my pal Jack.
And she's just like been 

963
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:56,640
somebody. 
I've ran on and off with it for 

964
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:01,800
the last like 15 years. 
And yeah, we used to run at 

965
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,000
work. 
We used to put the club 

966
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,800
together. 
Like I'd go down, she'd had her 

967
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,360
wee boys and I would go down 
when she was on her like 

968
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,720
postpartum fitness journey to 
get back. 

969
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:15,480
And there's just never any like 
need to discuss peace or route 

970
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,160
or anything. 
Just we literally just laced up 

971
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,160
her shoes and when. 
And it was always, just always 

972
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,040
really good. 
Like we would chat and we'd not 

973
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:28,600
chat and just got into a real 
rhythm together And like I 

974
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:33,000
probably miss that the most. 
I do a lot of running on my own 

975
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,000
or Rob and I run with the pram 
with everyone, which is amazing.

976
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:40,600
But I'd love to run if if I 
could get a weekly run with Jack

977
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,280
Pencil then that would be 
amusing. 

978
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:49,760
And one question I've just 
thought of that we didn't have 

979
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,520
on the list, and it's a question
that we've started asking now, 

980
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:58,240
is how many buffs do you have? 
See, I'm going to disappoint you

981
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,760
because I I'm not, I don't hoard
anything. 

982
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,520
I'm a real, I've been stuff all 
the time. 

983
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:11,040
So you'd probably be pulled. 
I get quite stressed out when my

984
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,480
wardrobe's full or I'm not 
wearing stuff. 

985
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:17,600
So stuff is either like in the 
loft like thinking, oh, I'm not 

986
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,440
going to use that. 
And I maybe have a little 

987
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:24,200
selection of like 5 bits of head
where five like T-shirts just 

988
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:27,760
what I need right now in my 
wardrobe and the rest is away or

989
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:32,000
it gets sent to a Charlie shop. 
So I think I've maybe only got 

990
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,560
about 5 or 6 buffs. 
So we would say 5 or 6 the the 

991
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:39,000
next time that that you are 
going to recycle because you 

992
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,320
don't bend them any buffs Nikki 
wants them. 

993
00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:51,280
I'm older. 
Last question, unless Mike has 

994
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:56,040
got anything else for us, what 
is next for your running wise? 

995
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:59,560
Do you have anything booked or 
just continuing to be on the 

996
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:03,760
build? 
Yeah, I do have a bit of a 

997
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:05,960
curveball. 
I've got the Trans Grand Canaria

998
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:09,600
Marathon, which is not a 
marathon, it's about 49 K. 

999
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,440
So yeah, that's in February. 
So it's not actually that far 

1000
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,160
away. 
So yeah, I fancied it. 

1001
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,640
It was one that I've like kind 
of on and off looked at for 

1002
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,400
years and I was like, I'm just, 
I'm fancying that. 

1003
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,480
So I just booked it up. 
So yeah, that the build is on 

1004
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:26,960
for that. 
So that will probably look quite

1005
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:28,880
different to what I have been 
doing. 

1006
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:34,080
So Rob will be tough because 
it'll be a lot more off road and

1007
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,480
he'll be in his element planning
my sessions for that because 

1008
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:41,840
it's right into his wheelhouse. 
Finding out about it. 

1009
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:47,480
He's like, yeah, that would be 
the main focus. 

1010
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,280
Never mind Valencia, Apple make 
the main Canaria. 

1011
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:56,360
And you might as well get the 
the the foreign races in while 

1012
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,360
you don't have to pay for an 
extra seat for every year 

1013
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,640
because the prices soon rack up 
when you're starting to pay for 

1014
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:04,800
children. 
I don't know how I'm going to 

1015
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:09,160
keep up the needles. 
She's too, though, for very 

1016
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,440
long. 
Right, I think that's the end of

1017
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:17,560
the questions and something that
you said on chat before we 

1018
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:22,240
started that we're maybe going 
to steal for a, a, a catch 

1019
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:26,560
phrase for the the podcast was 
PT and chill. 

1020
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,520
It's just sums up everything we 
should be doing and running. 

1021
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:39,160
Absolutely. 
So with that being said, let's 

1022
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:43,120
say thank you for Joe for coming
on agreeing. 

1023
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,520
And I'm sure Rob's sitting in 
the other room desperate to 

1024
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,400
listen to what we're saying. 
But and thank you to Nikki for 

1025
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,240
being Nikki and thanks to 
everybody for listening. 

1026
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:54,560
Thank you.