1 00:00:21,470 --> 00:00:24,070 Welcome back to another episode of run Till You're done. 2 00:00:24,310 --> 00:00:30,310 Tonight's guest is might not need an introduction is quite 3 00:00:30,310 --> 00:00:32,950 famous in the the ultra running scene around Scotland. 4 00:00:33,350 --> 00:00:38,310 He has been, he'll describe himself as a a lifelong runner, 5 00:00:39,270 --> 00:00:43,030 a career spanning about 40 plus years. 6 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:49,600 Former GB international runner, 100 marathons, 100 ultra 7 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,760 marathons, 15 W Hwy. goblets, including two podiums. 8 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:01,240 He's a selector for Scottish and GB ultra running teams. 9 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,920 Runs his own website, Runners or smilers. 10 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,400 Contributes to a lot more sort of running news websites. 11 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,160 I know that I've read of a lot of them. 12 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,680 He used to be a manager of a running shop. 13 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,440 So he's seen all the gimmicks, all the fads come and go. 14 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:25,680 I'm sure it will get on to that. When we asked our guest to be on 15 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,520 the podcast, he said yes, no problem. 16 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,280 But promise me you won't ask just the genetic questions that 17 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,000 he always gets asked. So hopefully we've came up with 18 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,240 a few different ones tonight. Welcome our guest Adrian 19 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,800 Stocked. Thank you. 20 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,200 Thanks for having me. Thanks for turning on. 21 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,720 We'll, we'll start off with the possibly the one formal question 22 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,680 this year. The things have changed. 23 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,520 When we when we asked you to come on the podcast, we didn't 24 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,960 know what what we're going to talk about, but you've given 25 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,440 U.S. news that I don't think you've been asked about. 26 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:12,640 And that is the news that as of 2026, you're going to be the 27 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:14,200 race director for the West Island Way. 28 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:20,080 So do you want to tell us about that and how how things are 29 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,440 going to change? Right. 30 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,400 Well, first of all, I've been involved organizing, having to 31 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,200 organize the West Island way for many years. 32 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,400 You know, while Ian's been in charge, Ian BC has been in 33 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,200 charge. Ian's been steering the ship for 34 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,880 many years now, since Derry passed away. 35 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,560 In fact, Jeremy, Mel around, he's a previous race director 36 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,840 and Ian's did it very well. It's a very successful event. 37 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,680 It's oversubscribed every year. Feedback we get is just 38 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,800 phenomenal every year. There's such a great community 39 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:54,840 spirit around the event. So Ian is busy with many 40 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,320 projects, as you know, both in his business life and just work 41 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,080 with UK Athletics. So he just feels the time has 42 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,720 come just to sort of not disappear. 43 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,320 He's saying he's still being involved in the background but 44 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,800 he's just not going to be race director. 45 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:13,560 So my involvement over many years, I said OK, I'll step up. 46 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,440 But I must stress as part of the team, I mean we've got John 47 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,560 Helenman over very much involved in the background. 48 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,040 Happened for many years, Sean Stone on the medical still so. 49 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,240 And we've got people who are very familiar to the West 50 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,080 Highland Way family like Julie Clark, Keith Hughes, and we've 51 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,520 also added a few people to the committee. 52 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,280 We've now got Neil Mcgritchie involved on the committee who we 53 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:38,720 hope it's not going to stop him still running it. 54 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:44,120 He's a deal is he can still run it and try and get go for #20 55 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,520 this next year along with Fiona, Fiona Rennie. 56 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,600 But he brings a lot of just a running experience of knowing 57 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,360 the rest time away and just getting what the rest time away 58 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,440 is to everybody, as well as being AGP and a medic who's 59 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,680 worked at events. So it brings a huge amount of 60 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,040 expertise, which I know we can tap into in the years going 61 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,280 forward. But as to say, what are we going 62 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,720 to change? Not a lot in the first instance, 63 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,640 I don't think. Yes, we've, we've had some 64 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,440 meetings and we've sat down and sort of thought like most 65 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,720 everyone does with their life in general, what small business 66 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,880 owners, big corporations, do you have a OK, let's have a blank 67 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:23,400 sheet of paper. And if we were starting this 68 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,000 race tomorrow, what would we change? 69 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,840 And there are many things you could change, but it's usually 70 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:34,280 limited by your either your ingenuity or more usually your 71 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:38,720 budget. Yes, we could easy charge 72 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,280 everyone $500 and change the race dramatically. 73 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,880 But is that what people want? Maybe in a few years time, who 74 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,040 knows? So it's it's evolution rather 75 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,160 than revolution. Yes, there will be some changes 76 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,800 for next year. Don't think I can let you know 77 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,720 what any of them are yet because they're still under under 78 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,920 consideration. Yeah, but no, they we're looking 79 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:03,720 at several things like checkpoints, things like this 80 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,920 reviving podcast, podcast, maybe getting involved in changing the 81 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,720 webinars, you know, getting a bit more interest going notice 82 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,360 arrival to yourselves. Yeah, but just something to 83 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:21,120 bring a bit more. It's feel like just more 84 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,160 involvement with the community and the families throughout the 85 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:23,880 year. Should we say? 86 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,600 Yeah, yeah. Well, one thing that I've seen 87 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,760 posted, so I'm sure it's not a secret, is the the federal 88 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,880 policy for pregnancy. That's just one thing we've 89 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,520 looked at. I mean, we again, the art of 90 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,200 being a good race director or a good sort of leader in any field 91 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,400 is you listen to your runners and you listen to what you look 92 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,000 and learn from what other races are doing. 93 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,520 And some people that races out there are doing some good things 94 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,320 and you look at them and you see that that's the extraction. 95 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,200 And it's a positive thing that people will, will, will 96 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,880 appreciate. So yes, we brought that in. 97 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,120 There might be the other other changes we make going along too, 98 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,880 but I'd probably just say there will be changes, but it'll more 99 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,120 be of a gradual nature rather than anything totally 100 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,880 revolutionary. Well, we'll, we'll wait and see. 101 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:21,360 No spoilers tonight. So you're the best director 102 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:23,440 yourself now. Congratulations. 103 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,880 Will you be going for Goblet 16 at all? 104 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:33,920 Not next year, I think I did my last West Highland way 105 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:41,520 20/16/2017 and then got very busy with several projects and 106 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:43,800 was still running recreationally fairly well. 107 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,520 But I had an accident on my bike, as many of my friends will 108 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,760 know what's 3 years ago now, which necessitated having sort 109 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,200 of a new hip basically jumping the queue completely. 110 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,480 Had an accident on my bike with a pothole in Edinburgh and ended 111 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,320 up splashing up my hip and then gave me a new one. 112 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,600 So although I've been able to get back to doing pretty 113 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:07,360 everything I want to do in life, running is still problematic and 114 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:08,840 I'm not getting any younger, let's face it. 115 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:12,440 So I would never say never when you think that people like Paddy 116 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,920 McDonald are still churning out West Island ways at age 7374 and 117 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,520 Rob Reed finished it well into his 70s and Andy Cole is 75 or 118 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,720 76 years young, completed it. So never say never. 119 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,560 And while we're still on the topic of the West Highland Way, 120 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,640 because we've got so much to cover tonight, well, this is the 121 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,600 first sight question that we have for you, Adrian, and one 122 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,960 that just pops into my head. I think this is the way the 123 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,840 interviewer will go. What is it about the West 124 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,040 Highland where you've done it 15 times, but what is it that keeps 125 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,880 you going back to doing that specific event? 126 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,880 What can I say? Everyone who's a runner, 127 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,320 whatever distance they do, whether they're doing their 128 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,520 first park run, whether they're doing marathons, ultras, they've 129 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,080 kind of at some point in the formative running years, just 130 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,480 find an event that just is magical. 131 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:11,480 And for me, that's the West Island way. 132 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,960 It just happened at the right time, right place as it has so 133 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:17,520 many people listening to this, I hope, and many people involved 134 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,240 with the family. It's one of these races that's 135 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,520 particularly as Scotland. It's just the West Island Way. 136 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,000 I think anyone who's involved in the outdoors in Scotland 137 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,000 appreciate that the West Highland Way is this our 138 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,080 wonderful iconic long distance trail. 139 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,919 It's the original 1. You can like it to like, you 140 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:39,520 know, England have their Pennine Way. 141 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,919 You know which people like outdoor people in the north of 142 00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:43,880 England always want to sort of run or walk. 143 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,200 I sit back. It's on in the West Country. 144 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:47,560 You've got all the coastal paths. 145 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,560 There's so many long distance trails now. 146 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:52,880 But the West Highland Way is just Scotland's iconic trail, 147 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,560 and I think even if you're an outdoor person, you probably 148 00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:58,640 will walk it at some time in your life, either in Iguana or 149 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,760 as a family bolding exercise with brothers, mums, dads, 150 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,960 grandchildren, whatever. We see them all around on the 151 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,800 way, just hiking away. And if you're a rather, it 152 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:12,960 probably is the ultimate challenge in Scotland. 153 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,840 It's not the toughest, it's not the, I wouldn't say it's the 154 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,320 most scenic there. It is very scenic, but we won't 155 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,920 claim it's the most scenic races, many scenic races in 156 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,760 Scotland that are very beautiful, but it just has that 157 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:29,120 iconic lure of being hard enough to challenge you but not too 158 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:30,760 hard to kill you. That makes sense. 159 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,280 It's achieve rule by anyone who just has a little plan over a 160 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,800 year, 2-3 years, whatever to get it done. 161 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,520 Yeah, definitely. And it's just some of it even 162 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,360 started going back to the very early West Highland Ways when 163 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,360 Jim Stewart was the organiser and then Dario following him and 164 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,200 out. Ian and the crew have tried to 165 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,200 develop a sense. We've just tried to develop that 166 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,680 sense of family and we don't have an exclusive on that. 167 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:00,960 You look at Lakeland 50 a hundred, you look at sort of the 168 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,320 hard most events. They've all got their little 169 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,960 communities which are great. But obviously the West Highland 170 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,120 Way, being the iconic Scottish trail that it is, is something 171 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:15,320 special. Going back to you've done it 15 172 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:21,040 times, come back to your sort of early days, what sort of is 173 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,360 there anything that sticks out from year one that would say 174 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,160 that This is why this is what brought me back? 175 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,840 Probably it was it was in my sort of whole running 176 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,000 adventures, if you like. It just came at the right time. 177 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,600 It's just something that really took me out of my comfort zone. 178 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:46,400 That again is one of the attractions as the West silent 179 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,800 way. It just it's just something that 180 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,840 brings everyone together, sort of friends, family, volunteers, 181 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,160 runners. And for one just wacky weekend 182 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,560 in Midsummer, we're all taken completely out of our comfort 183 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:59,560 zone, whether we're helping, whether we're running and we 184 00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:03,000 just have the most fantastic time and go back home with tales 185 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,480 of the keep us going for the next year, basically. 186 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,960 And I think my first West Highland Way, many years ago, 187 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,320 1991 was my first. I think 25 people started, I 188 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,680 think about 15 finished. And in those days you could do 189 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:21,880 it unsupported or supported. And I did it unsupported and I 190 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,080 was very naive, young ultra runner. 191 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,880 I'd done several ultras. There weren't many around in 192 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,680 those days in Scotland. There was just the two bridges 193 00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:34,520 and the West Highland Way end of probably hard to believe now and 194 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,280 younger listeners will find that very hard to believe that there 195 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,520 was just two ultras in Scotland and there weren't many more. 196 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,280 In England. We had the there was a classic 197 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,400 London to Brighton race. There were other long road races 198 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,280 like the Woodford, the South End and the Blackpool Depressed and 199 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,280 just Rd. races joining towns basically, which have all gone 200 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,720 because the traffic's just got too crazy. 201 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,440 And everyone, it's not that we didn't run on the trails and we 202 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,480 all ran on the trails, but there were no races on the trails 203 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,880 because the whole network of long distance footpaths wasn't 204 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,000 there then as it is now. Yeah. 205 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:08,680 So I'd heard about the West Highland Away and I'd done, I 206 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,360 think, a couple of 24 hour races of those silly things that go 207 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:17,400 around in circles, you know, And I'd met runners who'd done the 208 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,160 West Highland Away because there weren't many, what you call 209 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:21,640 ultra runners around in those days. 210 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:24,960 And we were still looked as a very lunatic fringe, you know, 211 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,240 sandpots going out and doing something really weird. 212 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,760 And I arrived and started the West Highland Way with a whole 213 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,360 lot of drop bags to put up the way. 214 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,840 And hey ho, just over 22 hours later I was in Fort William. 215 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,200 But it was quite an adventure. There was a lot of little 216 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:47,120 adventures on the way and it just had a profound effect on me 217 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,400 with this. So very few runners in those 218 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,120 days and the checkpoints were very minimal. 219 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,440 There's just one or two guys close to a red phone box, which 220 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,960 there's Mission Control. There were no mobile phones. 221 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,720 There's no Internet, so checkpoints will provide red 222 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:03,600 phone boxes. You phoned your time into Fort 223 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,920 William Mission Control and you had that feeling of this 224 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,400 absolute world, innocent desolation because even the 225 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,200 trail then there weren't the number of people walking the 226 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,720 trail and it was like having a fabulous day out. 227 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,760 You know, back in the nose. You were just out on this trail 228 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,560 then you hardly saw a soul and you were just going through this 229 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:28,280 whole I never even set foot on the West side the way before 230 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,320 that race. Again, very naive that it all 231 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:34,640 and this just wonderful landscape starting in the 232 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,920 lowlands going then gets a lot longer and you get to the the 233 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,480 mid Highlands. Then you get up to the proper 234 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,840 Highlands and it's just, it's just seeing Scotland in the 235 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,000 Midsummer and all its absolute beauty. 236 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:51,880 I've, I've done the race three times, been involved since 2010, 237 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,400 I think was my first involvement and I've been involved every 238 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,080 year since in either supporting or crewing. 239 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,840 So as you say, it just kind of sucks you in, you can't escape 240 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,480 it. But for those that are watching 241 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,120 on YouTube, Adrian's got a picture of the Devil staircase 242 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:17,480 in the background there. And my my memory of seeing 243 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:22,280 Adrian on the race is Rob Sinclair was in the process of 244 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,120 setting the record. He was about to run up the devil 245 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:31,760 staircase and I was shouting profanities of him for talent. 246 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,920 He was going too slow and what I didn't know was around the 247 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,520 corner. Adrian was standing there taking 248 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,360 photos, so I'm sorry if you heard that. 249 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,560 Actually, I can't a diplomatic and say I cannot recall that. 250 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,600 What I do recall for anyone listening and younger viewers as 251 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,840 well, we're talking about Rob Sinclair, who has the still 252 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,920 holds the record of the West Island way. 253 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,320 It's something ridiculous. That's 13 hours, 42 or 254 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,600 thereabouts, I think. And Mike was his crew that year. 255 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,960 And I just have this memory being at that spot is just at 256 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,120 the bottom of the level staircase. 257 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,720 And I I was helping me out of that year, but I was on my way 258 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,000 up to Fort William to help set up the finish and just happened 259 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,560 to be in the right place, right time. 260 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,720 Sorry, Glencoe, I think, then scooted across to the devil. 261 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,880 So I thought, what if I can just get this magical shot and I'm 262 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,560 never scooting up the trail for that first little bridges just 263 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,600 up from the little car park at down the fade and tried to frame 264 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,720 the best I could. Rob coming over the bridge with 265 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,760 the book hall in the background. It's down on the West Island 266 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:35,600 Riverside. You can see it. 267 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:41,240 It's it's it's not a professor I've talked with was find a lot 268 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,560 of faults with it, but it just captures that one moment. 269 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,400 I remember thinking, well, OK, I'm just going to watch Rob and 270 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:50,360 see how far he gets and just see how far he runs before he walks 271 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,440 up the down staircase as most of us do. 272 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,200 And I just watched him run all the way up and over the top 273 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,200 without sort of breaking step. That's how you run 1342 on the 274 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,080 West side away. You can't afford to walk 275 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,480 anywhere. You've just got to run the whole 276 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,000 blooming thing. Yeah. 277 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,680 That's unreal, isn't that? I've got one more question as 278 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,840 well before we do move on about the West Highway. 279 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,920 You're saying about from 1991, No mobile phones, no Internet, 280 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,680 no Garmin Strava, none of your nonsense. 281 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,560 The trail itself, Has it always been as well signposted as what 282 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,440 it is today, or was there definitely still potential to 283 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,240 get lost on it? Definitely, it was signposted. 284 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,800 It was potential to get lost more than it is these days. 285 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,120 I said the trail is a lot different from what it was then. 286 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,040 I mean, yes, you talk to some of the old school people and 287 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,760 they'll argue about it was harder and we did it back then. 288 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,280 But the trail is what it is and it's evolved. 289 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,440 And yes, you look at what they've done, the Conic Hill 290 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,880 now, you know, you look at Glenn, Finland, beyond being 291 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,680 glass all the way up to dairy Derrick farm and just beyond was 292 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,160 just a bog basically. You know, that whole land of 293 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,680 track that goes right up from being glass was hardly there. 294 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,640 But it wasn't there. It was, it was that was driven 295 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,520 through years later, there's a very low level parcel went right 296 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,359 along by the river overlooking the falls of Phallic there. 297 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,880 And I remember one year the river was in flowers and the 298 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,680 river was overflowing into the field. 299 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,040 So you just had to, you're up to your ankles in mud, you know, 300 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:29,400 which isn't there now. And the way they've improved the 301 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,320 early part of Loch Lomond side there was, we all love that 302 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,960 stretch of Land Rover track from railroad then and goes on for 303 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,520 about 5 or 6 miles now, but that only went on for about a couple 304 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,920 of miles back then. So there's a lot more, shall we 305 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,720 say, of the uneven lock side path and there is. 306 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:47,760 They've got it easy nowadays. It's. 307 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,400 Not easy. It is what it is. 308 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,880 But, but it's different. Yeah, and but still has a start, 309 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,320 has a finish to West Silent ways. 310 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,840 There, you're still seeing Scotland in all its grandeur. 311 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:09,560 And your, your other things that you do organise the races and 312 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:15,560 one thing they do is you're a selector for GB and the Scotland 313 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:22,000 ultra teams. I, you might not know this, but 314 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,920 I, I, I was aware of you watching a race. 315 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,000 It was the D33IN, I'm going to say 2014. 316 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,360 I, I ended up coming second. There was a minute and probably 317 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:41,080 a minute 20 or something like that behind David Gardner. 318 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:47,000 And he, he got selected for the ACP based on him winning that. 319 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,440 And I, I was a regret of mine because he told me afterwards if 320 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:57,480 he, he was dying. And I, I knew that if I knew 321 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:02,640 that I could have gone faster. But yeah, he, he got the 322 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,120 selection and I didn't. That was a regret. 323 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,000 First, Dave, I think it, I don't think it was just that race the 324 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,880 selection was based on that was a key race for him, certainly. 325 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:19,080 And then we we always look at a lot of ultra races, but Macy's, 326 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,360 any selection, you, you look at your, your policy is written for 327 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:23,840 you basically, yeah, by other people. 328 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,600 You just got to go with what the policy says. 329 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:31,280 Yeah. And so, yeah, yeah. 330 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:37,200 But yeah, I mean, again, selectors probably shouldn't 331 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,400 reveal their confidences, but I think there were other factors 332 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,480 apart from just that race that were taken into account, you 333 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,880 know, the previous promises, 100K and previous, possibly 334 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,800 previous Rd. marathons as well. Yes, yeah. 335 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,760 Yeah. And I assume that other other 336 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:55,520 things like certain years you have certain races and that is 337 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:01,320 the qualifier. For the 100K team, we've never 338 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:06,280 had a qualifier as such. We've identified people have 339 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,480 asked us what should I run? You know, you get a lot of good 340 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,280 marathon runners wanting to move up in distance. 341 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,880 So you get people who've run things on the trails and sort of 342 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,760 say is that good enough? And you sort of say, well, stay 343 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:22,840 hard to quantify, but you just got to have a policy which I 344 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,680 think for in terms of what the ACP does now if you look at the 345 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,080 Scottish as I think website for the Scottish team anyway. 346 00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:33,520 Deemed to be capable of running 7 1/2 hours per 100K for men and 347 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,200 I think it's 855 for women. But performances in other 348 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,880 distances close will be taken into account, which is a lot 349 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,040 more, shall we say, some say lenient. 350 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,720 Then you get a Great Britain policy, which is just usually in 351 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,320 black and white. You must do this time or you 352 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:51,680 just won't even be thought about. 353 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:58,960 Yeah. And what non running habit would 354 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,640 you say has made you a better runner or race organiser? 355 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:10,920 Oh, probably many, I would say for those that don't know me, 356 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,440 I've had a lifelong interest in in yoga and meditation and I 357 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:20,040 have I practice meditation daily and I would say my meditation 358 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,040 practice has helped me be a better all round person. 359 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,720 So we say, I mean, that sounds a bit good, but it's just, it's 360 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,120 given me the ability just to listen and probably just take a 361 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:33,760 step back at times and just sort of say, OK, what's what's what's 362 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,400 going on here Now Just listen to runners, listen to other race 363 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:42,880 organizers and just try to come up with things that will make 364 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,160 them have a good experience when they're running a race. 365 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,360 That's all people want really. They yes, a lot of people 366 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,480 looking for PBS and looking sometime in, as you say, trying 367 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,720 to qualify for national teams, but the majority of runners just 368 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,640 want to go out and, and just have that total enjoyment just 369 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,760 being out on the trail, out doing a marathon, out doing 370 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,520 their local 10K. They just want to have a good 371 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,600 experience when they when they pin a #1. 372 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,160 With yoga and meditation, obviously like the word 373 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,960 mindfulness usually comes to mind when I certainly think 374 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,000 about is that they feel it brings that to you're running 375 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,120 and you're organizing in general life. 376 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:25,840 Does it make you more mindful? Hey, yes, I would say so. 377 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,080 You're just always trying to identify ways you can improve. 378 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,920 You know, people use the word self improvement very glibly, 379 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,320 you know, and just going beyond and beyond whatever, but you're 380 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,160 always trying to do whatever you're doing just that little 381 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,320 bit better. You know, it becomes like a 382 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,480 daily sort of discipline. OK, I'm just washing the dishes. 383 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,760 I want to do a good job of it. You know, I'm sweeping the 384 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:47,440 garden leaves. I just want to make sure 385 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,800 everyone is picked up, you know, and you transfer that to the 386 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,680 another race, OK. How can we do this better? 387 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,400 You know, you've got little teams and innovates, like even 388 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,760 in the West Highland way, you've got little teams at work and you 389 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,440 sort of, I know John and Helen go have their volunteer teams 390 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,320 they work with and they're going to teams saying, OK, you're this 391 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,800 little checkpoint, how can we help you? 392 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,320 What do you need? It's just a case of always just 393 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,800 trying to find that little bit extra that you can do to make 394 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,800 life, should we say, just have those little magical moments. 395 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaking about magical moments drift back into West Allen way 396 00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:23,280 again because as what we'll be doing all podcast. 397 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:31,080 If if you had a a feeling or a a moment or however you want to 398 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:36,200 express it to to do with running, to do with W Allen way, 399 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,720 and you could bottle up that feeling, what would it be? 400 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:49,920 I think it's just, as you said, the essence of family and 401 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,160 community and that everyone is there to help each other and I 402 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,840 think it's just epitomized so much by anyone listening to this 403 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,440 who's actually been there or just seen it on video. 404 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,440 The moment when the last finisher gets their goblet. 405 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,600 For those that don't know, the West Highland away is unusual 406 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,320 for many races. It's not just the prize giving 407 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,640 with the podium for the first 3 and everyone else gets the medal 408 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,640 as they cross the line in the centre of home. 409 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,960 We have a prize giving that in Fort William that coincides 410 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,560 shortly after the cut off time, the 35 hours, it's midday on 411 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,640 Sunday and everyone that comes to that and it's like, I think 412 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,920 Ian best describes it, Ian Beatty as like a graduation 413 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,200 ceremony. Everyone who's run that race 414 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,440 comes up and get their goblet and it's just like it's just 415 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,000 giving that family feeling of equality. 416 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,360 It doesn't matter whether you've finished right at the back of 417 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:48,600 the pack or right at the front. You you have challenged the way 418 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,760 and you've won, I think, and some people have challenged the 419 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,720 way and have come up short for many reasons. 420 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,920 We've all been there, stuff happens. 421 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:03,240 But the initiative we initiated many years ago, I think I might 422 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,440 be, I think it was Murder Mccune who came up with the idea that 423 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,520 the winner of the race presents the last finisher with a goblet. 424 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,800 And that moment at the end of the prize giving at the West 425 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,640 Island Way is always very magical. 426 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,040 Yeah. And it's almost standing. 427 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,120 Applause from everybody and hardly a dry eye in the house. 428 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:29,320 And everyone goes home buzzing. I think it's an aspiration for 429 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,000 some people to be the final finisher because you get the 430 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,720 biggest you're at the end. I can imagine myself waiting at 431 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,920 that sports centre. I say right on you go, on you 432 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,920 go. I don't think people tried to be 433 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,080 the last finisher, I think, but I think everyone who does the 434 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,440 best silent way. Over the years, you see hundreds 435 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,760 of people have taken on the challenge and some are naturally 436 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:54,240 gifted. You know, some people, as their 437 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,120 coaches say, chose their parents well and can how they need to 438 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:01,640 train and can get around it. For some people, it's the maybe 439 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,400 the hardest thing they'll ever do in their lives. 440 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,440 You know, like Mike's done it a few times and done all his 441 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,080 backyard ultras and things. I've done many things, but some 442 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,760 people and not naturally gifted, they have to graft and they can 443 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,480 spend four or five years getting to the point where, OK, I'm 444 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,240 ready to run the West Highland Way. 445 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,880 It's a little life goal they've had and and it's they'll 446 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,320 struggle. It'll be a real roller coaster, 447 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,640 but they'll get to the start line and they'll get to Fort 448 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,000 William and they may never do something as hard in their life 449 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,040 again. And, and those people are sort 450 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,040 of really the real heroes of the West Highland Way because 451 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,840 they're just taking on a challenge that they thought 452 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,240 almost wasn't attainable. But over the course of time, 453 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,400 it's become, OK, and maybe I could do this. 454 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,640 And then when they actually get there, anyone who's been at the 455 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,040 finish of the Highland Way, it's like any race, you just this 456 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,200 grown man just try a bucket full to finish because they've just 457 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,720 achieved something that, as I say, just taken them out of 458 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,440 their comfort zone big time. I was in the hall at the end of 459 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,560 last year and as the last runners were coming in, I heard 460 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,920 some of these crews saying, Oh no, he can't be last person. 461 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,960 He can't be last person. And somebody turned around and 462 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,360 said no, I think it'll be all right. 463 00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:12,760 I think you'll want to be the last person. 464 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,240 So Adrian, as Mike mentioned in the intro, you've done one or 465 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,720 two ultras, so I'm hoping the answer for this question is 466 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,560 going to be quite an interesting one. 467 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,360 What is the weirdest thing that you've ever eaten, Madras. 468 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,400 Oh, when you sent that question, I thought about it and I I can't 469 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,160 really think of anything weird I've eaten. 470 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,880 I think I've always been pretty sensible with my food. 471 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,480 You you need to try a cold can of soup thin. 472 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,520 What kind of soup? Yeah, I've had them, certainly, 473 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,720 but that's not really weird. That's just sort of normal 474 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:54,480 stuff. Yeah, yeah. 475 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,440 See, it's it's normal to eat cold. 476 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:58,360 Soup. Not normal it. 477 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,480 Is normal. You just, you just deal with 478 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,320 what's in front of you and it's someone's has a can of cold 479 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,360 sweep in front of you. I think I've had, I've had that 480 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:07,000 experience. Yeah. 481 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:11,480 You know, you just go with it. You know, you know, sometimes 482 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,800 when you're doing altars, everyone who's done an ultra and 483 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,080 done many altars, especially longer ultras, sometimes you get 484 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,960 into a checkpoint and you find your crew and you just, you, 485 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,960 you, you know, you want something, but you can't really, 486 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,160 you're not really thinking properly. 487 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,560 You've got a plan and you know what you like, but then your 488 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,520 crew just presents about four things in front of you. 489 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,960 And so you just, what do I pick? You know, And you just 490 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,040 automatically draw to some one of them, you know, and usually 491 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,000 the intuition says what you're looking at is probably something 492 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,360 that you need. You know, you're wanting 493 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,560 something savoury or salt or you're wanting, you know, the 494 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,800 sweet things or you're just wanting that, that cold kind of 495 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,440 sleep just OK, that's going to hit the spot. 496 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:53,400 Yeah. And following on from that, what 497 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,200 do you think ultra Running does teach us about human nature? 498 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:07,640 Oh, definite one, I would say it teaches you that. 499 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,440 Trying to not sound too glib here, but the unattainable is 500 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,480 attainable. You know, getting back to, you 501 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,960 know, I've, I've, my meditation teacher was Sri Chinmoy, as many 502 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,280 people know, some people deserve. 503 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,720 But his whole philosophy was based on self transcendence. 504 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:30,200 And you can always do more. And you know, he, he was 505 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,160 obviously a meditation yoga teacher, but his whole 506 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,920 philosophy of his transcendence in the running world, the ultra 507 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,480 running is a perfect metaphor for just always going beyond and 508 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,400 beyond. And no matter who you are, what 509 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,040 your level is, you know, whatever run the ability you 510 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,480 have, there is something that can be brought out of you to 511 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:53,880 make you a better runner. And on a very, very important 512 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,440 question that you might not have an answer for, you're running 513 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,520 the West Island way. You're going for goblet #16. 514 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,600 It is a roasting hot day. You've got to Oxford Tire Farm. 515 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,840 You saw your crew. You haven't seen them for since 516 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,120 Robert Dennon and they said or you can have an ice cream at 517 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,600 Tindrum Brody store. That used to be the place to get 518 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,280 it from. What flavour ice cream would you 519 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,320 get? Chocolate mint tip. 520 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,480 Oh, I wouldn't say no to that either. 521 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,480 And if I didn't have that, I'd probably go for something from 522 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,600 my childhood. I was born and brought up in 523 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,760 Cornwall and so I'd have to give a Cornish dairy ice cream, which 524 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,600 is proper ice cream. That's a good answer. 525 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,840 So at least I know now for next year's race, I know what to 526 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,240 bring you. Thank you. 527 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,520 I look forward to that. I think in the years that I've 528 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,640 had it, at that point it's been something like a Clippo because 529 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,560 that's the only thing that you can get. 530 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,120 But on a normal day I would probably have something similar 531 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:13,840 to the Mint Chalk Ship as well. And if races had theme music 532 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,080 attached to them, which some of them actually do. 533 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,400 But if there was one that you happen to be doing and it was 534 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,240 played if you run past the checkpoint, what kind of music 535 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:32,160 would you enjoy? Well, my musical tastes are very 536 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,560 varied. I don't think I can pinpoint 1 537 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,000 music, but maybe it's a little spoiler alert that. 538 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,000 Watch this space for ideas we might have for checkpoints next 539 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,920 year. Well, I look forward to that. 540 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,880 You're making this voluntary thing more than water peeling a 541 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,320 tree, but. Personally, as I say, my, my, I, 542 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,680 I'm just my, my musical taste is inspired by sometimes the 543 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,000 surroundings I'm in for what's going on. 544 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,040 Like sometimes, like you might be running up a Loch Loman side 545 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,400 and it's just, this is just, I mean, I've never been. 546 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,280 I never usually listen to music when I'm running. 547 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,480 I much prefer to hear nature's orchestra. 548 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,320 There's the sounds and there's the sights that are going on 549 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,800 around me. And even now if I go for a walk, 550 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,040 I don't, I don't listen to podcasts or anything. 551 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,480 I just like to go out and just experience what what's in front 552 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:21,320 of me. If you like, Yeah. 553 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,400 And it's just like in the West Highland, the way when you're 554 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,040 going up the Loch Loman side, you just sort of have sometimes 555 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,400 have these might sound a weird. You just sound like sort of like 556 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,640 an Irish or Scottish sort of Celtic music. 557 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,800 You get violins and flutes going through your head because it's 558 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,400 just that sort of countryside. As you have further noisy and 559 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,440 more majestic music. I it might sound crazy, but 560 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:44,080 that's this wonderful memory of going to a place you're very 561 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,080 familiar with. Mike the top of Jelly Baby Hill 562 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,360 and came to the top of Jelly Baby Hill and just looking out, 563 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,960 get that to the summit to see that vast expanse of Ranick Moor 564 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,240 stretching out ahead of you. And it's just one of those sort 565 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,200 of many wild moments. It's just as a the scenery opens 566 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,760 up as you go north and believe it or not, the thing that came 567 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,720 into my head was Beethoven's Ode to Joy. 568 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,000 Everyone knows that. Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, 569 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,720 bomb, bomb, bomb. And I just found myself cheering 570 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,720 down the hill just last night out of my mouth at top speed, 571 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,000 you know? So I think when you mentioned 572 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:27,440 going up Jelly Baby Hill from a long time ago, I remember Peter 573 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,520 Duggan being at the top of Jelly Baby Hill when Murdo playing on 574 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,480 his tin whistle, playing the Star Wars music. 575 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:41,600 Yes. Wonderful cameo moment, Yes. 576 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:47,040 You say about classical music, I actually love it and had it on 577 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,840 in my car for the first time in ages last week and I thought to 578 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,160 myself this would actually be like if you picked the right 579 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,160 theme in classical you could have a mate run with it. 580 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,120 I mean, I challenge anyone listening to Beethoven's Owned 581 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,600 for Joy and just get up a chair and start marching around the 582 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:09,679 room. I think I'll do that after this. 583 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,239 So again, getting the fault William is no problem, you know. 584 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,679 All right. The the next question was what 585 00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:26,280 is the strangest or most scientifically questionable bit 586 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,960 of advice that either you've given been given at checkpoint 587 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:35,639 or just in running in general? Again, I I can't think of 588 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:40,239 anything really strange, you know, Maybe I'm just too normal. 589 00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,639 You're absolutely not normal. The amount of ultra on the new 590 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,960 thumb. I mean, there are so many 591 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:56,840 scientifically questionable fads that are around bit of advice, 592 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,840 you know? It's all relevant to where you 593 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,760 are at at the time. You know, question and advice of 594 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,560 one situation with one person, how they're feeling is probably 595 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:08,720 absolutely appropriate at that time. 596 00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:12,480 But to someone else at another point in time is just bonkers, 597 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:12,920 you know? Yeah. 598 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,840 So it's probably the case of dealing, as I say, dealing with 599 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,000 what's in front of you and how you're feeling at any point in 600 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:23,880 time. And what's the race or moment 601 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,560 that never made the headlines and the running world or in 602 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,080 general, but has meant the most to you personally? 603 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,440 Do you mean a personal race of mine or just an experience? 604 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:42,280 Of. Mine personally was probably my 605 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:48,360 best 24 hour race when I was in the British team and European 606 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:53,280 Championships in Holland and it's very special moment. 607 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,440 It's my first GB vest and I managed to place in the top ten 608 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:00,360 and we got the bronze medals and it was it was just a bunch of 609 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,000 guys who were just when they represented Great Britain and 610 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:10,040 had fun, you know, it was, you know, very much under the radar, 611 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,760 hardly made any headlines. I think it might have made a 612 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,560 little line and the Scotsman was the Press and Journal just as a 613 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,320 result, but nothing else apart from that. 614 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,440 But it was just the most fantastic life defining 615 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,240 experience for me, which I look back on very fondly. 616 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,280 In fact, I've still got to pick up the team just ahead of me on 617 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,040 my show. The team was, I'm going to show 618 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,920 this to you because some viewers might know this. 619 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,640 There's oops, it's not coming out on there, is it? 620 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,240 It's a younger version of me on the right hand side there. 621 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,280 This gentleman here is a legend otherwise known as Don Ritchie. 622 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,280 This is a guy called Wolster Hill who views in Scotland. 623 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,120 Probably don't know, but this guy on the far left is William 624 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,760 Hichel from Orkney who knows a little bit about ultra running. 625 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,880 So and we've known each other many years, run against each 626 00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:02,360 other, race against each other, not 9 balls out of each other in 627 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,640 races. And just to come around, if we 628 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,640 had of that sort of weekend in Holland, to come back with the 629 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,880 team medals was still a very special memory. 630 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,760 Yeah. And what year was that? 631 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,880 I think that was 1875. No. 632 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,480 It was October 2000, yeah. Fantastic, yeah. 633 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:29,520 And the next one might be one that you've already mentioned, 634 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:35,680 but is there any behind the scenes moments, stories that 635 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,160 people wouldn't believe if you told them? 636 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,280 Probably nothing I can mention in public. 637 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,080 I know we nearly set the tent on fire at the ACP at Perth once, 638 00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:55,520 but we we got away with it. No, luckily we had a we had a 639 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,760 plan to deal with it. Good race organisers do. 640 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,160 That's because you're running too fast, right? 641 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,560 But. There's many. 642 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,520 Every race organiser will tell you something you plan for the 643 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,880 unexpected, but stuff always happens, yeah. 644 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:18,440 And quite that was all for cool. Sorry, you were going to say 645 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,520 there, Nydia. No, Carry on. 646 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,920 Best of public, anyway. The next question is quite 647 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,600 philosophical. So what would you say to your 648 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,760 younger self before your very first ultra? 649 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:39,840 OK, I actually saw hard about this and probably my first 650 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,640 advice would be good only for having a go, but you should have 651 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:49,600 waited another year. And the second bit of advice 652 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:55,960 and, and that's if I can elaborate on that using the 653 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,440 classic expression. If I knew now, if I knew then 654 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,080 what I know now, what would I talk? 655 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,760 My youngest half is? It's just a question you're 656 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,000 asking. I see too many people setting 657 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:11,680 themselves too big a challenge too quickly, and usually a they 658 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,160 don't even get to the start line because they're not ready for it 659 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,800 yet. Or they get to the start line 660 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,040 and don't have a good experience. 661 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,840 Whereas if they just wait another year, consolidate where 662 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,760 they are a they'd be better prepared and they will actually 663 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,920 enjoy it much more. It'll still be hard, but if 664 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,160 you're going to challenge yourself and push the boat out, 665 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,440 you want to have a bit of fun while you're doing it as well. 666 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,400 Yeah, shouldn't be taught you. It should be a a, a nice life 667 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,840 defying the experience for you. Yeah, so. 668 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,280 I I think. The other main thing I would say 669 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:50,080 is just you have to learn patience in any ultra, whether 670 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,120 it's a in a marathon, you have to learn patience in an ultra 671 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,920 especially, you just have to learn patience and just, and 672 00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:01,320 that's something you learn. It's true of 50K, it's true of 673 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,640 50 miles, it's true of things like the West Island Way. 674 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,280 Even I was lucky enough to be at Nowby last weekend for the world 675 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,520 24 hour championships, 2 weekends ago now and all the 676 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,440 people there are people who have learned how to run 24 hours as 677 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,160 an event. They weren't just doing their 678 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,240 first. There's some incredible 679 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:21,600 performances as you might have had the world record went for 680 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,200 the ladies with Sarah Webster running ridiculous 173 miles. 681 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,520 But you don't just wake up in the morning and run 173 miles in 682 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,000 24 hours. It's something that is built up 683 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,480 over many years, all those amazing performances and just 684 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,520 like, and I guess what I'm trying to say is it's worth 685 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,760 patience and waiting another year to make sure you actually 686 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,600 enjoy the target goal that you've set yourself. 687 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:53,760 I think we also people go into it too early and they might get 688 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,160 to the finish but as you say you might not enjoy it and if you 689 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,520 waited and actually are ready for it then you would enjoy it 690 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,240 and then go back and do it 15 times. 691 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,000 Yeah, it's, and it's not that people can't do it, of course 692 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,000 they can. But I, I come across so many 693 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,880 runners these days who've gone from like half marathon to doing 694 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,360 the fling, you know, they, they sidestepped the marathon 695 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,000 completely, you know, and it's good on them, I'd say. 696 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:25,200 But you have to ask yourself, should they have? 697 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,080 They've obviously done it and, and, but you, if you're going to 698 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,840 take up running, you want it to be a lifelong experience that 699 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:40,920 you're going to save and enjoy. The next question was cliche 700 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:48,240 sayings or whatever out there, like it's tortoise beats the 701 00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:53,520 hair and stuff like that. It's a journey, trust the 702 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,400 process. All this, the cliches that are 703 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,920 always out there. If there's one thing that you 704 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,880 could delete out of existence, what would it be? 705 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,080 This may sound a bit controversial, but I wouldn't 706 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,000 delete any of them because I think even the most good cliche 707 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:14,440 is, is OK in the right context. When it was first said, when 708 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,440 someone first said to somebody, you know, it's a journey, it was 709 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,720 probably meant from the heart for one approach to a particular 710 00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:26,680 person in a particular point in time to inspire that person. 711 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,880 That makes sense and the same as all the other ones, you know, 712 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,360 you know, trust the process, etcetera. 713 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,520 Yes, you do have to trust the process, but you if it's said in 714 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,040 context in the right place, I think any little phrase is good 715 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,680 and it is set from the heart and well meaning at a certain point 716 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,080 in time to an athlete at the right time in the right moment. 717 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,440 But yeah, it's a lot of cliches. I guess what you're saying is 718 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,680 they're overused and and not used in the right context, or 719 00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:00,720 was just used as a throwaway remark by any Any bit of advice 720 00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:03,240 is is relevant in the right at the right point in time to the 721 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:09,600 right person. And I've got 2 questions rolled 722 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,880 into the one about kit. So which piece of running kit do 723 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,840 you feel is the most overrated? And then following that, which 724 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,080 bit of cheap which cheap piece of junk has secretly saved your 725 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,000 race? Oh, it's not some running kit. 726 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,000 Here's probably a personal opinion because it's now valid, 727 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,800 but I've always felt that technology has been overrated. 728 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,680 It's not to say they're wrong. I can remember when Hotmail 729 00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,360 monitors were very young against this, getting my age very bit. 730 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:47,040 And I went to a lecture with the New Zealand coach Arthur 731 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:48,880 Lydiard, who many people have heard about. 732 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,400 It was taught all the New Zealanders how to win gold 733 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,360 medals basically at the Olympics in the 60s and then became the 734 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,080 national coach of Finland and was involved in setting up their 735 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,680 programs. So the Finnish runners became 736 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,600 world class distance runners. And that's our lecture. 737 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,720 Harvey monitors were just a new thing that I don't think they're 738 00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:11,800 even garments around then. But someone asked him, what do 739 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,080 you think of heart rate monitors? 740 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,120 And also being a very down to earth Kiwi just shot back 741 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:28,040 Kenyans don't use them. So all they do is when they they 742 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,760 run easy most of the time and twice a week they just run their 743 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:31,920 guts out. But then I'm watching the 744 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,480 hardware they're just running till they're done basically as 745 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,360 the thing goes. So I wouldn't say technology is 746 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,480 bad, but I would say that if there's one thing that has been 747 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:47,600 misused over the years, possibly and given more relevance and 748 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,360 maybe it should have been, it's it's running technology. 749 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,640 Nothing is wrong. It's like our expressions again, 750 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,600 in the right place and for the right session, absolutely fine. 751 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,320 But don't worry, your heart rates drop overnight. 752 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,040 So you can find out where your heart rate is in the morning. 753 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,280 I know people have done that. Trust me, you know it's. 754 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:18,440 And the other question was, is there any sort of cheap bit of 755 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,240 tat that's actually been beneficial? 756 00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:26,520 To you, my daughter's tool bag saved me on my first West Island 757 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:32,000 way back in 1991. There were no hydration vests. 758 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,680 So Pete Bland had his famous bum bags. 759 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:40,600 You had sort of a big backpacks. And here I am doing my first 760 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,000 long trail race up the West Island way and OK, I've got to 761 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,200 carry some gear for a change. You know, what do I, what do I 762 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,200 put it in? All I could find was my 763 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,440 daughter's school bag. Yeah, play bags. 764 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,880 I'll tell you what, hydration bags, they can be overrated. 765 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,920 I think Begs was a not a man that got called bag man mate. 766 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,160 He's been doing that for a while. 767 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,880 Yeah. He prefers to run with what what 768 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,000 people call a shopping bag, but it's like a a dry bag and he 769 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,840 puts his hydration bottles in that and he just carries it in 770 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,920 one hand like as if he was carrying a shopping bag. 771 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,880 So it works for him. That's how he runs so. 772 00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:22,080 I've been known to just go out for training runs back in the 773 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,080 day, just carrying a 1 1/2 litre bottle of water. 774 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,160 There you go, one litres. That'll do me for the next 3 or 775 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:34,040 4 hours, yeah. And when you're out for three or 776 00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:38,160 four hours and all the ultras that you've done your, your 777 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,720 shoes have done the miles, if your shoes could talk, what 778 00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:46,960 would you say? Please retire me before I get 779 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,960 too old. Is that your body or your shoes? 780 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,680 Yeah. Again, having worked in the shoe 781 00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,080 trade, you see all these. They are good expressions. 782 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,440 You know, your shoes will last 500 miles, 700 miles. 783 00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,720 And when you take down and find out who's done that research, 784 00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:07,960 it's usually been funded by a shoe company. 785 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,880 Yeah. What is the longest you've got 786 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:17,920 out of a pair of shoes? I, oh, I've got old pairs. 787 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,320 I've probably run 2000 miles in Wow. 788 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,480 Yeah, I mean them all the time. You know, I sort of retired and 789 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,960 then because they've had special memories of certain races, I 790 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,960 just won't throw, haven't thrown them out or, or tamed to 791 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,080 recycling or put them, you know. So I used to just bring them out 792 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,000 now and again just to go for a little run of them and just some 793 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,320 memories. I remember when I did this race. 794 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,280 And you might have actually already have answered this for 795 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,040 us, but with the evolution of the sport, I mean, 1991 was 796 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,680 quite a while ago now, technology and everything coming 797 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,800 in. Is there anything else that 798 00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,920 might make your eyes roll or think or there's no needs? 799 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,480 Yes and no. Yes, sometimes it does. 800 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:09,000 But then you think, as I was saying before, in in the right 801 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,640 context, all, all new, new things are good. 802 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,560 You know, the right person, as long as they're used for the 803 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,840 purpose that they're meant for and that person is getting a 804 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,120 benefit from them and isn't just sort of following the crowd, you 805 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,480 know, not just taking on a diet because Jim Warmsley is on the 806 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,840 same diet or Jim Warmsley has this jail cell must be the 807 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,560 great, greatest thing to have. You know, it's all about context 808 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,360 for you as a person. Yeah. 809 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,760 And find what works for you and, and follow that. 810 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,200 Yeah. The next question, it might fall 811 00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,640 under the same sort of thing. It's What is the strangest thing 812 00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,720 you've found, but strange to you might not be strange to somebody 813 00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:51,960 else. What was the strangest thing you 814 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,680 found? Left behind checkpoints or after 815 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,320 a race, or in somebody's kit bag. 816 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,200 Trying to think every year we always have a quite a lot of 817 00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,440 lost property, so it gets down the road to Fort William 818 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,000 eventually, but it's usually pretty run-of-the-mill things. 819 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,920 I've spoken to find anything that's been totally weird, yeah. 820 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,800 I've seen a picture. Of somebody you've seen, yes. 821 00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:24,000 I've I've not seen it personally but I know somebody called Flip. 822 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:29,200 It always puts up a picture who is a picture of a, let's say, 823 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,320 prophylactic filled with, I think it's something like rice 824 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,840 pudding, and the person's just nipped the end off of it and 825 00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,040 squared into their mouth. Each to their own. 826 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,000 Yeah, not for me. Yeah. 827 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:47,720 Can I actually share a story that I've heard at a race and I 828 00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:51,240 was talking to other volunteers and race directors and say 829 00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:54,480 keeping on a on a minity. I can't say that word. 830 00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:59,680 I will not mention who or where it was, but the strangest thing 831 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,880 they've actually seen or probably the grossest was a 832 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:08,240 runner had a, a misfortunate accident, shall we say, and used 833 00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:14,840 a really good branded jacket, waterproof and ended up throwing 834 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,920 it away. And they actually fished out the 835 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:20,040 bin and said, right, who's taking it home? 836 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,080 Because I'm just going to wash it. 837 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,600 Who wants it because apparently it was quite an expensive 838 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,400 jacket. So that's that's your standards? 839 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,440 I said. I think I'll take it home and 840 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:34,760 wash it. Yes. 841 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:40,200 And the next question, this isn't make drafted a few of 842 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,880 these questions, and I think this is a great one. 843 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,160 It's probably one of the best ones I think we've had on the 844 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,520 podcast. What is a smell that instantly 845 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:53,280 reminds you of running? Well, for me it's things like 846 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:59,120 like at the moment just awesome relieves just running through 847 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,200 woodland or by Riverside and just that smell of just sort of, 848 00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,680 it's not really decay. It's almost been, there's a 849 00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:09,120 start of renewal again, just like the whole changing of the 850 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,240 seasons. And it's just like in spring you 851 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:14,280 get the blossom coming out. It's just as I said, I don't 852 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,080 listen to music when I'm running. 853 00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,640 I never, never did. I was always just trying to 854 00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,720 absorb the sights and sounds that are around you all the 855 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:23,800 time. So you you just get the feeling 856 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,880 of those autumnal awesome leaves and the blossom coming in the 857 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,600 spring and just nothing in the winter, just absolutely bare 858 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,360 trees or just be in the top of a hill. 859 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,720 And the sound you've got in your ears is just a wind almost 860 00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:39,440 blowing you off. The down thing, you know, it's 861 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,360 just just those little ethereal sounds of nature that just stay 862 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:49,240 with you. And next one is if you were to 863 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,480 take all your running experiences and you're, you're 864 00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:58,520 writing a a running Bible for for anybody, whether it's new or 865 00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:05,920 old people, not old people, but old runners, what would your 866 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,280 commandments be? I. 867 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:13,520 Think I came up before actually thought about this one was I 868 00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:17,520 think we alluded to this a bit earlier, but don't let running 869 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:22,160 define you running itself, you know, always, always what's the 870 00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:23,480 expression This is a good expression. 871 00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,800 Get a life. But what I mean by that is this 872 00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:29,440 have a balance. Yeah. 873 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,160 Running is important to all of us. 874 00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,720 You know, it's something we spend hours thinking about, 875 00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:36,760 talking about reading about listening to podcasts about 876 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:42,000 these days. But that line between sort of 877 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:47,040 dedication and obsession, it's it's it's good on one level, but 878 00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,680 it's not good if it just totally takes over your life. 879 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,680 You need to have a balance and have, if you haven't got family 880 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,840 and friends, you've got some interests, whether that sort of 881 00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,640 jigsaws or basket weaving or whatever, you just need 882 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,640 something to take you away from, from running and just strike a 883 00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,160 balance. You know, there's the world is 884 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:07,880 such a, an amazing place for so many people like we. 885 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,920 I'm used to dealing with the ultra community and runners. 886 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:13,800 But this afternoon my wife took me to the Andy Goldsworthy 887 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,040 exhibition here in Edinburgh at the National Galleries. 888 00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:18,880 And if you haven't been and you're in Edinburgh, it's there 889 00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:20,800 for another week, do go and see it. 890 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,600 It is just amazing. But this is an an artist, Andy 891 00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,800 Goldsworthy, who is just makes these amazing installations that 892 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,280 are just from another sort of realm of consciousness, you 893 00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,120 know, And it's just something totally different to the space 894 00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:35,200 I'm usually used to. But you can relate to it because 895 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:39,040 being an ultra, I know you're used to sort of going somewhere 896 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:40,040 different if you like. Yeah. 897 00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,400 And this guy, Andy Goldsworthy, is doing it in an artistic realm 898 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,320 as musicians do it in a musical realm. 899 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,840 It's just like there are many ways you can explore personal 900 00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,360 boundaries and still have fun and still have your own 901 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:53,200 community. You know? 902 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:56,400 Like there's a whole, we live in our own little bubble of ultra 903 00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,160 running or cross country running, as I've said, across 904 00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,960 country, mid weekend, whatever. But outside that bubble, there 905 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,160 were so many other bubbles that are all interrelated. 906 00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:10,680 And yeah, just don't get trapped in the ultra running bubble #1 907 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:21,800 #2 set challenging but realistic goals, which I think we've 908 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,520 talked about already. Sounds a bit boring. 909 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:28,000 But yes, push the boat out. You can. 910 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,800 And everyone can do amazing things relative to their own 911 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,000 capacity. But be patient. 912 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,440 Have a bit of time over it, you know? 913 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:41,720 Yeah, because you'll enjoy it much better #3 would be listen 914 00:54:41,720 --> 00:54:47,560 to others. When you start running. 915 00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,840 You read a few books, you read a few podcasts. 916 00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,840 You might be lucky enough to have found a coach, you might 917 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:56,440 not. But if you can't get a coach, 918 00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,800 just go and listen to others. And I remember people do it to 919 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,800 me now. I think tables of turn. 920 00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:06,760 I remember when I was a younger runner reading just 20 years 921 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,640 ago, you'd be at a race or it could be any race, could be a 922 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,440 cross country race, could be in local 10K and you're in the 923 00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,320 cafeteria afters, there's a coffee shop, whatever. 924 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,320 And you're all these people hanging out there talking about 925 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,000 how the race was. And this is probably a slightly 926 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,240 older guy just sitting by himself in the corner. 927 00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:28,440 And I used to home in on them as I'm going to sit with this guy 928 00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,240 because you know that they've got interesting stories to tell. 929 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:37,400 And usually 9/9 times out of 100 you sit down and spend 15 930 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:38,760 minutes with this total stranger. 931 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,560 They've got a lifetime of running inspiration to to 932 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,480 impart. And there'd be 1 little gem 933 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,480 there that you can take away and put into your own running. 934 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,760 So next race you're at, ditch your friends. 935 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,800 Go and talk to the stranger in the corner. 936 00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,760 See, I've done that, Adrian. That gets me any bother usually. 937 00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,800 Pick pick your moments, Nikki, pick your moments. 938 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,680 They might be the loner in the corner for a reason. 939 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:12,240 I I get that as well. Yeah. 940 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,800 But yeah, but you get an intuition. 941 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:16,360 This guy is going to be interesting. 942 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,560 Yeah. We'll go. 943 00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:31,920 Yeah, yeah, yeah #4 Just as important as running is rest. 944 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:37,080 There's an obsession in just getting the training, in getting 945 00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:38,600 the training, in doing this, doing that. 946 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:39,880 Miles in a week, counting them up. 947 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,040 Oh, Sunday lunchtime, dumb. A long run. 948 00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:44,840 They've only been 95. Let's get back out and do 949 00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,080 another 5 S 100 miles looks good in the training diary. 950 00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,080 Sounds familiar to a lot of people, I'm sure. 951 00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:55,840 Yes, It's not safe to take on the whole Kenyan philosophy. 952 00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,040 Get up in the morning, go for your run, have your breakfast, 953 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,560 go back to sleep again, then get up and go for another one. 954 00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,560 Go back to sleep again. But it's a balance to be struck. 955 00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,840 One of the best bits of advice I was given is just see your body 956 00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:16,040 as like an elastic band, like a seraband that Fizzies use. 957 00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,840 It's just you've got to stretch it to make it to reach your 958 00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,120 potential and push the boat out so that you can run the West 959 00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,520 side away or run whatever you want to run. 960 00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,320 But you've got to let that rubber band go back again. 961 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,120 And coaches call it the adaptation process. 962 00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:34,400 You know, anyone who coach or has read any coaching books, you 963 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,720 have to let your body adapt to the pressure you've been under. 964 00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:38,880 The whole principles of training are very simple. 965 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,080 You just, you put strain on the body so it can improve and do 966 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,680 wonderful things. But if you don't let it rest, 967 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,400 that rubber band is going to keep stretching and stretching 968 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:48,880 and stretching. And what's going to happen to 969 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,640 the rubber band breaking? It's going to break. 970 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:57,000 And the only way you can deal with that is just factor in some 971 00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:01,920 quality rest. And that's that is an important 972 00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:03,600 part of the training schedule is planning the miles. 973 00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,320 And most, a lot of coaches forget about that. 974 00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,640 And runners certainly don't think about it. 975 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:10,960 But plan your training, plan your rest, plan your rest days, 976 00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:13,000 plan your easy days, plan your day when you're just going to 977 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:14,520 I'm just going to go and do something else. 978 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,960 I really like that analogy with the rubber band because I think 979 00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,800 even out with running, I think you can't apply that to life as 980 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,840 well. Yeah, burnout is a is a thing 981 00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,760 and I see it happening in novice ultra runners. 982 00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,280 I see it happen with elite athletes in GB teams. 983 00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:35,520 The real thing. They just, I think there's an 984 00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:39,560 American swimming coach did a very good study on another 985 00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:42,520 little analogy of entering the valley of I think they call it 986 00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:43,600 the valley of death or something. 987 00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,760 It's just like, you know, runner A goes and runs a 10K race and 988 00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,400 he's expecting to run what's 35 minutes, 36 minutes, shall we 989 00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,400 say? And they run 3738 minutes 990 00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:55,560 because they're overtrained and they're tired. 991 00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:59,360 So what do they do? Instead of sort of saying, OK, 992 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,720 I'm tired, I need to rest a bit, they still say, OK, if I train 993 00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:05,440 even harder, I'll definitely get down to 35 minutes, you know, 994 00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,240 and they go out and hammer themselves and, you know, 2 995 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:11,600 weeks later they goosed. They just take a step back and 996 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,920 said, OK, I'm feeling tired, I'm sluggish, my heart rate's up in 997 00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:16,840 the morning. You know, let's just take a week 998 00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,160 out here and then come back and start again. 999 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,680 Well, I think after that, the answer to those questions, Mike, 1000 00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,600 I'll definitely be writing those down because what a great answer 1001 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,240 that was. It was really, really good 1002 00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:31,120 advice. Thank you. 1003 00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:33,840 Appreciate it. We spend all this time trying to 1004 00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:39,040 get to a start line and we've all seen it. 1005 00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:40,960 We've all got friends who've done it who who don't get to 1006 00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,200 that start line because they just don't follow simple little 1007 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:45,000 rules. They don't listen to their 1008 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:47,240 bodies nicely. Yeah, it's, it's heartbreaking 1009 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:50,040 sometimes because you see the effort they put in and they 1010 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,480 just, they get a little injury as they get sick and they just 1011 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,840 carry on training and you just sort of, you know, oh, I'm on a 1012 00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:56,440 streak if I'll go and do a 2 miles today. 1013 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:57,720 Yeah. OK. 1014 00:59:57,760 --> 00:59:59,240 That's that's fine. Go, go and have a walk. 1015 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,560 Don't, don't need to run. Just go out and walk around the 1016 01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,240 block, you know, walk down to the shops and back, you know, 1017 01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,000 just get your exercise in. But listen to your body or it 1018 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,320 says you're going to pay for it later. 1019 01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,720 Yeah. I think the only problem that I 1020 01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,880 can see with that answers is that we can't ask that question 1021 01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,000 again because Adrian's already given us all the answers. 1022 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:21,920 There's plenty more out there, yeah. 1023 01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:26,240 I don't know, we could divide the running community because 1024 01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,520 people would listen to other answers and go, no, you're 1025 01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:32,360 wrong. You have to, you have to accept, 1026 01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,040 I mean it's all relative to what you're doing. 1027 01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:36,880 If I just paint a picture of what I've been doing the last 1028 01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:44,560 month, last 6-7 weeks in terms of saying take it easy and rest. 1029 01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,840 I I was helping at the wonderful St. in my 3100 mile race for 1030 01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,840 three weeks in New York, which people don't know. 1031 01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,200 It is a, it's the longest road race in the world certified road 1032 01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,840 race that goes round up an 800 meter block in New York for 52 1033 01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:03,440 days. So you've got guys and gals 1034 01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,560 there who are just pushing things way beyond what is normal 1035 01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,800 basically. Yeah, so, and they're living 1036 01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,200 proof that you can't do sort of crazy things and survive. 1037 01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:18,280 Yeah, yeah. But that's people who've spent 1038 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:19,560 years and years getting to that point. 1039 01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,560 They haven't just woken up in the morning and decided I'm 1040 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,880 going to run 3000 miles. They just sort of, it's 1041 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:28,040 something they've done after 10/15/20 years of consistent 1042 01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:29,880 training. And that's the same as anyone 1043 01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:31,720 just looking at their first ultra, their second ultra, 1044 01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:34,960 moving up. It's just having that adaptation 1045 01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,640 and just being sick. Yes, Sensible doesn't sit well 1046 01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,080 with ultra runners, never has and never will. 1047 01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,920 Very nature is just to push Bambi's out and sort of be 1048 01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,920 bonkers, basically, yeah. So, but you within that you can 1049 01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:53,840 have much more enjoyment if you just take the time to rest. 1050 01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,360 I think that's what makes it unique though, isn't it? 1051 01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:01,800 Yeah, that's the challenge, whether you're, I've got friends 1052 01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:03,840 who are ultra distant swimmers and swimming the channel and 1053 01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:04,920 things. And it's a similar sort of 1054 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:06,840 mindset. It's just a mindset that you've 1055 01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,680 got to push yourself, but you still have to have to relax and 1056 01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,440 recover as well. And the golden rule is, which is 1057 01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,800 a same feature in my head about things. 1058 01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,400 Yes, push yourself, push it up to the limit, but don't end up 1059 01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:20,280 in hospital. Yeah. 1060 01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,880 And before Nikki asks, yes, I have considered in that race, 1061 01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:29,680 but no, I couldn't get the time off work or family or life. 1062 01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,360 So there you go. Yes. 1063 01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:41,600 So following on from the evolution of the sport, what 1064 01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:45,440 comes with that is modern technology for social media 1065 01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,280 especially. Do you think that that has 1066 01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:52,520 helped or harm the sport? He's done both. 1067 01:02:55,360 --> 01:03:01,200 It's great that you can now like if to say the West side away is 1068 01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,760 an example. You're not waiting until Monday 1069 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:06,680 morning to read your Scotsman or Tuesday till Fred comes back to 1070 01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,560 the club to get the result. It's there in real time and live 1071 01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,240 and people are talking about it and telling you Fred's up to tie 1072 01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:15,920 or Joe's going to be at Glencoe in 5 minutes, you know, and 1073 01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:20,680 that's fabulous. Downside is do you really want 1074 01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:22,840 to know every bit about their daily social life? 1075 01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,160 Maybe yes, maybe no. Again, in the right context, 1076 01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:31,120 yes. But I guess what I'm saying is 1077 01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:33,520 it's like the old analogy with the TV. 1078 01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,400 You control the on off button. Just find out what social media 1079 01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,600 you want in your life. And just, I don't know, I don't 1080 01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:44,120 want to be feel like I'm on a soapbox, but I mean, I, I, it's, 1081 01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,600 it is draining. Yeah. 1082 01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:52,680 It's physically and mentally draining social media people, 1083 01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,040 and I see it as well as we're trying to keep your schedule. 1084 01:03:55,720 --> 01:04:03,120 And it's just like if I go as a team for championship, you know, 1085 01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:05,560 we try to just get them to limit their phone use in the week 1086 01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,080 before a race because they just didn't want to focus on the 1087 01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:09,200 race. They just don't want to focus on 1088 01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:10,400 telling the world about what they're doing. 1089 01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:12,680 Yeah, they want to tell the world about what they're doing. 1090 01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,440 It's good they do that because that's the plus side of it. 1091 01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:18,320 People want to know what they're doing, yeah, in a, in a, in a 1092 01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:20,840 team and things, yeah. But at the end of the day, 1093 01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,280 they've got the priorities running their race, not sort of 1094 01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:24,880 how many Instagram followers they've got. 1095 01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,920 And the, the next question is one of our standard sort of 1096 01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:34,800 questions. And it, it can be awkward to 1097 01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:36,800 ask, but we've got a twist on it. 1098 01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:42,240 There's two parts. First part is, have you got 1099 01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,880 anybody that you can think of that you would like to go for a 1100 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:50,120 run with? Either alive, not fictional or 1101 01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:54,480 real. I've been very lucky that I've 1102 01:04:54,720 --> 01:05:01,680 actually been able to meet a lot of very good runners, but if 1103 01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,640 there's anyone at the current sort of crop who I would like to 1104 01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:10,160 go out for a run with, I'd probably pick 2 that's allowed. 1105 01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:12,280 Yeah, you can take as many as you want. 1106 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,200 You can have a whole. I did. 1107 01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,440 I actually did meet Jim Walmsley very briefly and Confrank of the 1108 01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,440 World Trail Champs recently had an interesting sort of five 1109 01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:23,960 minute chat with him. But I would love to go for a 1110 01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:27,880 longer run with Jim Walmsley because I don't know is the 1111 01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:31,960 American runner who I think has the West certainly born Western 1112 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:33,480 states. I'm not sure he still has the 1113 01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,360 record. Also, it's one of the fastest 1114 01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,680 100K times. His versatility is amazing. 1115 01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:41,040 He's can run a good marathon, he can run a good 100K. 1116 01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:43,360 He can run a good hundred mile on the trails. 1117 01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,160 And the other character I find fascinating of all the runners, 1118 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:49,120 I don't follow that many actually, but as the runners I 1119 01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,920 do follow Francesco Puppy, the Italian trail and mountain 1120 01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:58,040 runner PUPPI look him up. Francesco puppy follow him on 1121 01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,880 Instagram. He's he's got some very 1122 01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:03,000 interesting stuff he puts out there and I, I was just, he 1123 01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,480 thinks deeply about the sport. He's involved in it at a very 1124 01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:07,800 high level. And I would just love to sort of 1125 01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:09,840 sit down with him. We'll have a coffee or just go 1126 01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:17,480 for a run with him, yeah. And the the the second part to 1127 01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:23,920 the question was same. Same rules, but who would you 1128 01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:27,040 like to see run the West Island way, whether they might not be 1129 01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:30,200 might be fictional or not. Jim Wolveson and Francesco 1130 01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,400 Puppy. Fair enough. 1131 01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:38,360 You fantasize, I mean, yeah. Ian and I and the guys, we, we 1132 01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:40,280 fantasize. We've had fantasy West Island 1133 01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:41,040 Way. Who would you like to do? 1134 01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:43,760 What sort of time could Courtney do on the West Island Way, for 1135 01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:44,360 God's sake? You know? 1136 01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,520 Yeah. You know, we desperately would 1137 01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,360 like someone to come and have a go at Lucy Cohen's West Island 1138 01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:52,480 Way record for the ladies. It's stood to be there for far 1139 01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:56,160 too long and you think there are people that could do it, but how 1140 01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:57,240 do you make them more attractive? 1141 01:06:57,240 --> 01:06:59,240 Maybe that's a challenge for me over the next two or three 1142 01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:01,240 years. How can we attract some better 1143 01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:08,600 runners to come and do this? If the, as I said, the West Side 1144 01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:13,720 away is a very successful event, it's we hope the entries go live 1145 01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:16,320 this Saturday. The 1st put that plug in for 1146 01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:19,240 that. Get your get your entry in, 1147 01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,680 think about it carefully and be patient and wait another year if 1148 01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:26,480 you have to. Follow the commandments. 1149 01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:30,280 Follow the. Commandments, yes, but you sort 1150 01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:33,440 of think if if there's anything we, I would like to do 1151 01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,600 personally is just to attract some better runners. 1152 01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:38,440 And to do that you've got to look at things like well, how do 1153 01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,120 we attract them? Zip prize money, do you give it 1154 01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:43,400 entries, stuff like that which the budget is based certainly 1155 01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:45,840 can't afford at the moment going forward. 1156 01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:50,320 Could that change? I don't know, but it's a double 1157 01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,600 edged sword because the reason the race is so successful at the 1158 01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:57,080 moment, because we're all it's a volunteer LED race and it's got 1159 01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:02,280 such a family community to it. And in some ways that's what 1160 01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,880 people like about it. Yeah, it's a bit low key 1161 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,600 compared with you go to your your mega professional UTMBS and 1162 01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:12,880 all this sort of stuff and, and they have their role, but not 1163 01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:14,000 everyone likes that sort of thing. 1164 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,720 And you know, the West Highland way has its little niche and 1165 01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:20,479 it's very successful niche because we just try to do things 1166 01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,359 right by the runners, give the runners what we feel they want 1167 01:08:23,359 --> 01:08:26,520 and get their good experience. And we try to treat all the 1168 01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:30,040 runners the same. Whether it works, I don't know. 1169 01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:31,600 Please, please give us some feedback. 1170 01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:36,800 But we try to make the sort of the fast runners equally as 1171 01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:40,240 important as the runners who are Mason the cut offs. 1172 01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:44,040 It's their race. Basically the the West time away 1173 01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,000 is that challenge for their to everyone to to attempt and 1174 01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:51,040 embrace. What I've seen over the years is 1175 01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:55,240 that there have been big name runners coming in and try to 1176 01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:58,160 take on the West Island Way, but it's the ones that spend the 1177 01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:03,319 time on the West Island Way, put in the graft on the way that are 1178 01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:06,880 successful at it. Yeah, yeah, I think you're 1179 01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:07,399 right. Yeah. 1180 01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,720 That's not to say that if killing of the communist crime 1181 01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:16,200 can move on to it. And can I just ask as well, 1182 01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:19,279 Adrian, if Jim and Francesco happen to listen to this 1183 01:09:19,279 --> 01:09:22,439 podcast, is that an invitation that they don't have to enter 1184 01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:28,680 the ballot to get in? How do I diplomatically answer 1185 01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:34,200 that one in the anti criteria? If you look carefully I think. 1186 01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,680 I'm not sure whether it's me or Ian who crafted this sentence 1187 01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:41,920 many years ago. The rules of entry are all there 1188 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:43,680 on the website. But there is this wonderful 1189 01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:48,240 catch all phrase that we would accept anyone who we feel will. 1190 01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:53,240 I can't even say that words will contribute contribute to the 1191 01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:54,880 improvement of the race. Yes. 1192 01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,960 So it's a bit of a catch all that sort of says OK, if if 1193 01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,320 Kelly decided in March he wants to come and run the West Island 1194 01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:05,760 way, he probably wouldn't say no if Kelly. 1195 01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:08,680 Had decided the day before. I don't think we would say no 1196 01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:11,160 either. Well, that might have just the 1197 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,160 problems and Martin Stone just the timing might have a few 1198 01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:16,560 issues to sort of put them down about I'll. 1199 01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,000 I'll I'll personally draw his bed for him. 1200 01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:23,880 If Kelly wants to do it, I think we can. 1201 01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:26,600 Twist some arms. Having said that, being involved 1202 01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:31,040 with GB teams and that going to championships and following the 1203 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:35,280 the elite scene was for a little bit, they have their not their 1204 01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:38,080 only gender. As such, the life of a top pro 1205 01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,240 athlete is very short. You might get 4-5, six years at 1206 01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:43,560 the top. You've got to pick your battles 1207 01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:45,920 and pick the races you really want to do and the ones if 1208 01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:47,880 you're trying to be a full time athlete, the ones that are going 1209 01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:51,600 to pay the bills basically, and the West Holloway is not going 1210 01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:55,160 to do that. And for those tuning in as well, 1211 01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:58,080 Adrian, that aren't aware, because as you've just mentioned 1212 01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:01,560 there, the entry opens as we are recording tonight, this 1213 01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:03,960 Saturday, we are recording on the Wednesday. 1214 01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:08,200 What is the entry criteria to get your name into the ballot? 1215 01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,160 Gosh, that's putting me on the spot. 1216 01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:13,200 Sorry, Adrian. OK, I'm going. 1217 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:17,600 Let's go in character here. I think I John will correct me 1218 01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,080 if I'm wrong. John Monroe, who is, I think you 1219 01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:26,520 have to run A65K race in the last two, maybe three years. 1220 01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:32,280 You check on the West side, www.westhighlandway.org for the 1221 01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:36,520 entry qualifications. And the caveat to that is it 1222 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,480 must be a race that has some sort of elevation in it. 1223 01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,320 Marathons are out, Commerce Marathon is out, Edinburgh, 1224 01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:46,040 Glasgow Canal Race is out, River Airway is out. 1225 01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:51,480 Basically, you're going over the you're going to be in Highland 1226 01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:53,760 country. You could be running over the 1227 01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:55,760 Devil's Staircase and over the Larry Gore in the middle of the 1228 01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:57,440 night. Was it blowing a huli even in 1229 01:11:57,440 --> 01:11:58,480 July? We want to know. 1230 01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:00,200 You can look after yourself. Yeah. 1231 01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:05,480 So we need to know you've done a race whereby you at least have 1232 01:12:05,480 --> 01:12:08,400 had some elevation and got up to, you know, a few 100 feet up. 1233 01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:11,080 And it's fairly technical terrain. 1234 01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:14,280 It's not a manicure canal pass. It's flat that you can look 1235 01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:16,440 after yourself and have accomplished something that is a 1236 01:12:16,440 --> 01:12:20,360 challenge, you know, and can be transferred to the West Island 1237 01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:23,200 Way. Because I've, I've been guilty 1238 01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:26,840 of encouraging many people to do things way out of their comfort 1239 01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:30,280 zone over the years. I think it's charged many times 1240 01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:31,840 and they've done it. Exactly. 1241 01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:36,080 They stepped up and done it. So I'd be the first one to 1242 01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,320 encourage anybody to put their hat in the ring for the Highland 1243 01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,840 Way. You can do it. 1244 01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:45,280 Anybody can do it now. You've seen them, but just have 1245 01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:49,560 that patience and that little, that little thing that just nags 1246 01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:51,520 away in here. I think I could do this. 1247 01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:56,840 You know, it will happen. You have that that little flame 1248 01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,800 will get brighter over the course of two 3-4 years. 1249 01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:04,240 And just in case Adrian has missed something, I I can't 1250 01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:08,120 think of anything they has. We have had Ian BE and Keith 1251 01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:12,560 Hughes and other guests on previously that evolved summed 1252 01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:14,720 up similar things. So go and listen to that 1253 01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:16,360 episode. It's going on the website. 1254 01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:19,520 Don't. Don't use Adrian as an excuse 1255 01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,640 that you missed something, that you haven't done your own 1256 01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:28,240 research. And the final question that we 1257 01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:33,080 have, unless make as anything else as you are a busy man that 1258 01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:37,400 we have gathered from this podcast, definitely what is next 1259 01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:42,560 for you in general, whether it be running or vase directing, 1260 01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:49,680 What have you got coming up? My next gig is I am helping out 1261 01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:52,160 to Scottish short course cross country in a couple of weeks at 1262 01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:56,840 LANIC. Yeah as well many hats that I 1263 01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,240 wear. I'm also an off track official. 1264 01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:01,880 I'm a qualified time keeper of those days, cross country 1265 01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,000 official. I love cross country in the 1266 01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:06,600 winter. Anyone listening to this, 1267 01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,520 whatever their level, they've never done a cross country race. 1268 01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,480 Just find one. They are just the most fun thing 1269 01:14:13,480 --> 01:14:16,480 in the world to incorporate into winter training. 1270 01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,360 I was at come back all over the weekend. 1271 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,040 I started saying this earlier. Over the last eight weeks I've 1272 01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:26,920 been in New York for the 3100 mile race. 1273 01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:32,160 One end of the spectrum. I came home and then went off to 1274 01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:34,800 the Pyrenees for the World Trail champs with the GB team. 1275 01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:38,960 And then two weekends ago I was in France as a spectator and a 1276 01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,440 wannabe journalist at the World 24 hour Championships, which is 1277 01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:44,800 quite interesting. Then last week I was at 1278 01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,560 Cumbernauld for the Scottish cross country relays and cross 1279 01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:51,480 country is just bit like the family the rest time and the way 1280 01:14:51,480 --> 01:14:54,040 you've got Olympians like Megan Keith and Andy Butcher out there 1281 01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,840 and you've got this run-of-the-mill club runners 1282 01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,440 just going out and just having the time of their lives running, 1283 01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:02,920 just killing themselves doing the 4K cross country 4K for 1284 01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:04,600 God's sake. You know, it's just so sure it's 1285 01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:09,320 over before you know it, but all human life is there from sort of 1286 01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:10,960 11 year olds, right? So we were just sort of 1287 01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:14,560 eight-year olds just mixing it and just showing what a vibrant 1288 01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:18,800 sport athletics is. So you say the. 1289 01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:22,800 The cross country community and people, especially the runners, 1290 01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:26,880 come under the same category as failed runners to me, which is a 1291 01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:30,840 different level in Beast. I honestly caught cross country 1292 01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:36,720 terrifies me. You you, you say that the cross 1293 01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:41,640 country is what, 4K? And your New York race is 5K? 1294 01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:48,160 OK, it's 5000K but. Exactly. 1295 01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:56,800 It's all got its place, so, but I guess it's the same with 1296 01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:00,600 running all your technology, all your gadgets, all your gizmos, 1297 01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:03,720 It's all got its place. Whether the places they've been 1298 01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,760 or whether it's actually in use, we'll see. 1299 01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:12,360 But anyway, thank you Adrian for coming on tonight. 1300 01:16:13,360 --> 01:16:17,040 Thank you Nikki for being Nikki and it's goodbye from me. 1301 01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,640 Thanks, Adrian. Thank you. 1302 01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:24,640 And entries open on Saturday 1st of November for this year next 1303 01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:26,440 year's West Highland Way race.