Welcome back to another episode of Runto done today.
I'm joined by the newly crowned W Helen Way Champion as of It's
been 3-4 days now. Yeah, I've lost count because I,
I don't know about you, but I didn't sleep.
So Charlotte McKenna, congratulations.
Thanks very much. Yeah, thanks for having me on.
So it's good to be with Helen Way champion.
So before we get on to the the topic of the the moment, can you
tell me how you started off running?
I, I got into it kind of, yeah, pure by chance.
I used to work down at down in London and there was a group
there they got, they were doing the Hyde Park release.
So yeah, just a bit of a fun thing.
But we basically put together A-Team and that sort of got me
started and then maybe about six months later I properly started.
So yeah, that was kind of the start of start of it all.
That was back in 2010, I think, Yeah. 2010, that's, that's
probably about, yeah, I think it's 2009 I started running.
So we're about the same, same vintage.
Maturing well, hopefully. Yeah, hopefully.
Well, we're still running, so we can't be that badly.
So what was the first race that you did?
I suppose that was actually the first race to the Hyde Park
release. I mean, yeah, if you call it a
race, it was. It was a race event.
But it was more for, yeah, more of a well, some, some, some
teams took a serious third team Weren't.
Yeah. If it's not fun, why taking
part? Exactly.
I think, I think probably Bristol half more than the
following year was sort of my first event, I think, yeah, my
first like an individual sort of event that I aim for.
Yeah. Have you sort of went up the up
the distances of the traditional, you do the 5K10K
half marathon, have you followed that or he went straight into
ultras to? To some degree.
So I think it started off at the half and then maybe the next
year I think I'd done my first marathon.
So I've quite quickly moved up to marathon unless they moved up
kind of, yeah, took on the challenge of a marathon.
But I, I more or less stayed at marathon for the next 10 or so
years trying to better my time. And I think I've done a couple
of ultra. Well, I did do a couple of
ultras in there, but they were more just to try out.
I wasn't really thinking ultras at the time, but I tried to
focus on yeah, try and prove my marathon to do What typical Rd.
runners do is try to yeah, beat the clock if you can.
The the typical question, they don't get so much in ultras, but
for marathon, what's your marathon PB?
It's that's two, yeah, 224. So I kind of ran out a couple of
years in a row and have been declining since.
What? What would you say your PB is?
Well, not your PB, your your current marathon time is.
I think I would say it's probably around 2:28.
Yeah, I'd certainly like like I'd go under 230 still.
I'm sorry. Yeah, I was at 2:24 and then I
sort of gradually started adding in a minute each year sort of
thing. That said, I've upped my mileage
more since and actually even my 5K times and stuff have come
down. So it's possible the Marathon
might be better than I I think that's I would say yeah.
I I feel like I'm slowing down and at Marathon PS5.
You say you're slowing down, but 99% of people out there but
still say that under 2 1/2 hours is unachievable Dream, yeah.
That's that's the thing with all sorts of running.
It's, it's all relative. So yeah, yeah, you know, 224 is
not going to set anybody alike like when you're thinking, you
know, UK standard. But yeah, certainly it's a big
thing for some people. OK.
And talking about other races other than the West Island way,
have you got any sort of bigger standout races that you can name
that you've done? Yeah.
Some of my first 100 Miller was last year, which was the
Lakeland 100. So that was that was that was a
huge challenge for me actually. But yeah, so that was that was
obviously a big one. And then I suppose I've done
lakes in a day. That was a 50 Miller.
That was a good one. I've done it.
It's just 100K on the road. The Anglo Celtic plate last
year, ACP. So those are sort of the
biggest, yeah, the big ones I've done.
Yeah, there's a bit of a difference between the ACP and
the Lakeland. How do you train for both of
those? Apparently by similar football I
might not be taxed. So yeah, I think for the for the
ACPA, can it just, well, actually most of the time I keep
them a similar sort of training routine during the week and then
I just up the week, the weekend mileage, the long run mileage.
So going into ACP had a really good kind of training stint or
block if you like. And I suppose after that I just
maybe did a wee bit more off, off or my off road because most
of my running tends to be road running.
But yeah, I put in a wee bit more in the trails, partly
racking the course and stuff like that.
So naturally I kind of spend more time on the trails, but the
kind of approach was very similar and similar in terms of,
you know, the peak mileage and stuff like that, so.
What kind of you say you did the same thing on a normal week?
What would a normal week involve?
Yeah. So there's, well, I guess
there's, there's one interval session there usually on a
Tuesday and then there's usually a hill session on a Thursday.
And then the weekends would be the long run or if it's
something building up to something big, maybe a double
weekend it. Is Tuesday Thursday?
Is that with a club? No, that's, that's just, yeah,
just the personal, I think. So.
I used to I used to go to club sessions and they actually
happened to be on a Tuesday. So maybe I just got into that
routine. But I find it works well because
I could do the long run on Sunday.
I'm reasonably, I wouldn't necessarily say fresh, but
Tuesday, but I'm I'm really recovered to do the interval and
then Thursday's kind of yeah, again, hills is slightly using
slightly different muscles and then I'm sort of ready again for
the long run at the weekend. So I kind of the pattern were
sort of works for me quite well. Where about you're you're from
Northern Ireland, but where about are you staying at the
moment? In Newcastle, up on Thames NE
England OK. So how's the the hills around
there? In Newcastle, the South, not so
much. I mean there is a little bit of
L actually, to be fair, if you wanted to find hills like the
time by the Tyne, it kind of sinks down as it goes in.
But I don't do too much. I mean I do my reps on on a kind
of local hill, which is not particularly long.
You maybe get about 50 seconds uphill in it.
But if I want to get out into like the real hills, I mean up
into the Northumberland, yeah, up up Northumberland, like the
Cheviots and stuff. And sometimes I'll go over to
the lakes. So if I want to get real, yeah
more well mounted type of hills. I I've done a race starting in
Whitehaven and finishing in Tynemouth, yes.
So I wouldn't say that I know the area well because I think it
was about 31 hours it took me and by the time I got to
Newcastle I've no idea. I can't remember.
It's a nice area, it's a good place to live and yes, it's easy
getting out to different areas, like I say, up up to upper
Northumberland and over to Cumbria if you need.
So going back to your your races, other than the West Helen
way that you obviously just won, what's your biggest achievement?
It's, it's, it's I would say it's hard to differentiate.
Like probably on paper, maybe the Anglo Celtic played last
year would be just be being the British championships and stuff.
So just kind of stand out. Personally, I think my best
effort was probably the Lakes in a day.
I I managed to get the record for that and it was, it was I
had to go full out the whole time.
So yeah, that was probably on a personal level, that was maybe
my toughest race, if you like, in terms of pushing myself and
getting the best for myself. And going back on to the the
rest of the moment in the West Island way, did everything go to
plan? It's certainly winning it.
Yeah, that was better than planned.
I'd, I'd say the first half was tough and just in terms of I, I
found it difficult to nutrition wise, yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't
terrible, but I wasn't feeling great.
And then I, I, well, I was sort of sick around Octatar, which
is, I think this is it like 5051 mile in or something, I can't
remember exactly. Yeah. 44949 yeah.
So let's say roughly halfway. And then suddenly after that,
everything changed and the the running really started to feel
more fluid. And from there onwards, it was
pretty standard. I didn't even try to take on
solid food after that. I just, yeah, just, well, Coke
kind of kept me, kept me going, but yeah, things things were
going well. So I didn't need to change
anything and it felt good from there on.
A lot of people think, oh, that's a bad question to ask,
that it go well. Of course it went well, you won
the race, but it just shows that it doesn't go well for like just
because you won the race, it doesn't mean say that everything
went exactly. How you?
Absolutely. So it kind of leads on to my
next question. If things did go to plan, do you
think you could improve? I would think so, like so I
don't know. I would say on Saturday, on
Saturday EE, even without the stomach issues, I'm not sure
that I've got too much more out of myself.
I think with my fitness where I was on Saturday, I probably got
very close to as good as I could have got.
I don't think I went into it for the full fitness.
So in that sense, I feel like maybe, maybe there was more to
be got there. But I, I think on the day it
went more or less, I got as much as I could have.
Maybe maybe those earlier parts maybe could have run away a bit
more freely and got a little bit more time.
But yeah, I would have been, I'm talking minutes here or you
know, 5-10 minutes of this, not huge amounts.
I I first saw you after tire farm, as you said it was when
you weren't feeling that great. Yeah, that was probably my low
actually, if I'm honest, or at least, yeah, the three miles
going into that. But it it flipped a flicked the
switch literally as I went to leave Octa Tower Farm.
Yeah, I was, I was sick. And almost immediately it just
started working for me and yeah, the legs were running again.
You came into the farm and Robbie was right beside you,
Robbie Dunlop, who finished second.
Had you been running with him previous to that or?
Yeah, yeah. So I think early on there was a
fair, fairly sized group of us and Robbie was in with that
group. And then kind of leading into
our Roar, Denon and I was running with Robbie and having a
bit of a chat and stuff with them.
And then I sort of lost him a wee bit coming out of Roar
Denim. I took a wee bit longer than
him, but then I caught up with him by Emerson Ed and then we
ran together pretty much two octave tower for him at that
point. And yeah, it was really good
company running with him. He's he's he's a quite a chatty
good guy. Yeah, fun guy.
So half the miles, especially at the time when I, I think I was
in a bit of a low. Yeah, yeah, it was it was nice
for him. I almost felt like he was
dragging me along at times. So I was trying to keep keep
with him. So do you think that if you said
he was dragging you along, did that keep you going or was that
you weren't You were running his race rather than your own race
or not? Yeah, I think it's hard to know
how it would have been if I was on my own.
I think he he was very good along that sort of rocky
technical bit along the the Loch Lomond along the side of it.
So I enjoyed that actually, kind of just keep in with them.
It kept me good with them going for me.
And then I think we're both running really well.
Like to be in class and to be honest, I think he maybe
struggled a wee bit before Octatar as well.
But we're going through some quiet moments and I think we
were, yeah, we were both maybe struggling a little bit to some
extent. So I think having his company
really, yeah, managed to kind of keep the mind off the fact that
maybe it was wasn't a bit of a low at that point.
Just thinking were you like going along what they call lock
side, the sort of technical, but had you been there before?
Yeah, so I've done the whole course last summer over like 5
days. I took a, took a family on a
camping trip, so my wife and kids are pretty tolerable.
So yeah. So basically last summer, I'd,
I'd run, you know, segment and did move the tent and we'd sort
of move on all our way up, up, up, along course.
So I'd done it all once last summer, as I say.
So I kind of knew what to expect, yeah.
Yeah, and when you were running with him, were you running ahead
of him or behind him? Were you sort of watching where
his feet were? Is I know that Robbie's done it
many, many times. He knows the course.
So it's like, do you use that advantage?
I was, I was definitely running behind him.
Yeah, not nothing intentionally, but as I said, I almost felt
like he was dragging me. But I was, I wasn't really
watching his feet. I was just concentrating on,
yeah, just concentrating where I was putting my own feet.
But I mean, I'm reasonable on that sort of paper terrain
anyway. It's, it's, it's when it's
technical downhill stuff that that's where I struggled.
But on the flat technical, it was, it was OK.
I was just, he had a good momentum going and I was, it was
quite nice trying to keep with him because it kind of meant I
had a good momentum going as well.
So OK. And I'd remember Octa Tire,
there was two guys with you. Is that your main crew?
Yeah, that's that's Craig and Mick.
They're two brothers, so yeah, they they came up from, well,
Newcastle and Hex. I'm so kind of up this area.
So they both came up with us. Yeah, they were, they were
fantastic. I would have.
Well, yeah, they give up obviously a lot of time and they
were really engaged and it was excellent.
Good they experienced. Have they they accrued for
people before. I don't think they experienced
accruing. They're they're good runners in
themselves, but more in a short distance.
So I think it was kind of their first intro into the ultra
experience if you like. So but yeah, they we talked
through like nutrition and things like that.
So we kind of share that interesting comment.
So yeah, they're definitely runners.
So it's. Yeah, that helps.
So have you inspired or convinced them to?
Will you be crewing for them next year?
I would love to yeah, there's there's a lay the challenge out
for them. Yeah, it did actually send a
message saying yeah, they they might be turned towards ultra,
but I don't know if they were getting or anything.
Yes, but now I think, I think the whole, the whole events, it
has a nice feel to it. And I think if you're surrounded
by event, it's hard not to kind of feel at least a wee bit of,
you know, that warmth and that excitement about it that you
might actually be tempted yourself.
So yeah. And leading up to the race you
said you did wreckage, you said you've how you train on a weekly
basis. What about other like cross
training? Do you do anything else?
I've started doing some equity jogging.
So basically I got injured towards the back end of last
year and those injuries actually kind of continued, yeah, well
into this year. So that's where I felt a bit
underprepared going into the West Highland way.
But throughout that I kind of kept, well, I started equity
jogging and I kind of kept it going.
So in that sense, yeah. If you call that cross training,
then yeah. Otherwise, not really.
I do, I go through little phases of me maybe doing weep as a
strength, like not, not even with stuff, just body with sort
of exercises and things. But I'm not very good at them.
So I I kind of do them for a few weeks and then I lose interest
and maybe come back to them when I get an interview or something.
What about, like work? Are you on your feet all day?
Are you sitting at an office like me?
Yeah, I'm mostly sitting. Sitting at a desk at an office.
Yeah, move around a wee bit, but mostly sitting and computer
based. Yeah.
No, but I guess for me that's one of the reasons why I run,
because you're you're setting it to the computer all day.
You want to get outside. Yeah, no, absolutely.
And I guess you can look at it two ways.
You can look at that as recovery time and you know you're you're
giving your legs a good rest. So when you do come to your
fresh. So yeah, but ideally if I have
had a dream job, I'd sort of be using the feet a lot more and be
a bit more active, yeah. And during the race, what like
you said you had you turned to non solids after halfway?
What was the plan for? What were you meant to be
eating? Yeah, so this is where I, I
guess experience in Ultra's come in.
So, so last year in Lakeland I had similar issues, actually
worse to be honest. So in Lakeland I tried to use
like, you know, those energy drinks, like the powder format.
And then that's at the checkpoints.
I take on solid foods and stuff like that.
But I really was very sick in in during Lakeland Hundred last
year. And so my plan for this one was
to. Oh, sorry.
The only thing that got through me Lakeland Hundred last year
was Coke. I'd never drank Coke before in a
race, but that was what I was on offer.
The checkpoints and I the energy drinks were repulsing me.
So I turned to Coke and actually found it worked really well for
me. So my plan this time was to
basically use Coke as my main liquid and energy obviously in
there too. And it's got caffeine and stuff,
which is great. I bought supplement that with
gels. So that was sort of the plan,
but yeah, the gels worked initially a little bit, but then
yeah, it didn't really, yes, I mean, it's sort of yeah.
You start feeling sickly and like I just the appetite for
them wasn't there. So I, I, the other plan was to
sort of some of the checkpoints take on little bits of solid,
like bits of rice and porridge and stuff.
So not loads, but just a wee bits to add and break up.
Also the gels, but yeah, didn't quite go to fully to plan in
that sense. Yeah, And without asking you,
what's your secret numbers? Do you have a target for
calories, carbs, anything like that?
Yeah, I suppose my, for, for this one, my, my target was
around 75g per of of carbs. And that was based, well, it was
based of, I don't know if you know, precision fuel and
hydration day, this calculator thing.
So I used that and to be honest, I wasn't far off why this were
expected. Like for some previous things I
was working off about 90. So that was kind of where I
ballpark where I thought I should be.
But I think in reality, I must have fell well short of that
because I definitely, I would say 2/3 of that was to be based
off the jails and there was definitely didn't go in after
the first, you know, 1520 miles. So yeah, I think I was well
below that unreality. OK.
And you said actually no, it's been three or four days since
the race. How do you feel now?
Surprisingly good. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that that evening wasn't good, but I managed later
on that evening to get some food in me.
And then I woke up the next day and I had a good breakfast and
the the legs have been sore. So, so, so the eating came back
actually pretty quickly, which after Lakeland Hundred last year
took me good 3-4 days to really get appetite back.
So that was that was really positive.
And then the legs, this time they've been sore.
But to be honest, I've, I've done marathons and they've been
worse. So yeah, I would say even today
I managed to go out for a gentle joke this morning.
So which I wasn't really expected to, expected to, you
know, take a good week before I even went out at all.
So yeah, I'm really happy with how it's gone so far.
And what, what kind of food have you been eating?
Bush race, Just shoveling it in? Anything that'll go in.
Yeah, pretty much. I'm not, I'm not the best in
terms of in terms of good diet anyway.
Like I'm not terrible diet, but I do eat a lot of sweet stuff
and biscuits and things like that.
So yeah, it's been awesome. Yeah.
Just, yeah, just happy to eat anything.
So yeah. And you said you were Aqua
jogging because of injury. Do you want to go into like what
kind of injuries? Yeah, would you?
Recover them from there or have you had any bad injuries?
Yeah, so I think up until last year I had I didn't really have
any injuries that, you know, usual leggles that everyone
gets, but nothing, nothing took me out more than a week or
ending at a time. So last October I got a stress
fracture on the tibula. It's the the one in the leg is
not the width bearing one the I think.
Yeah, Tibula. And so that took me out from
October till the end of the year.
And then I I just started to sort of build back into it's a
slow build up after stress fracture, but I'll just sort of
I was about six weeks into that and then the sciatic nerve
problem came on. So it's give a really strong
pain in my buttocks and those sort of sharp up into my back
and stuff. So I was out for another good
month, but that's and then I sort of a couple of weeks into
getting back from that's and it hadn't gone away by the way it's
but I started to at least get running again a couple of weeks
into that. Literally in the course of one
run, it switched the other side. I've never felt it again on that
left side where it started and but it was on the right side and
that took me out another few weeks.
And then a couple of weeks into that, like going and then I
think it was the same issue, but there's sort of a pain just
below the knee. So again, I chopped another
couple of weeks, right. So yeah, it was a very stop
start basically from October till really actually quite deep
into May there. I've got a few long runs in over
the weekend, but even then I was sort of interrupted some weekly
training runs and just trying to manage it.
So it's only really sort of towards the end of May that
things properly turned. And I feel like the last month
I've had a good, yeah, I think I've definitely turned the
corner now at the moment to touch with and.
Do you talk to any professionals like physios or anything like
that? Or did you like what most of us
do and just go on to Google and find out you've got something a
lot worse than what you've actually got?
Yeah, I think up up until the stress factor, I think I'd seen
a physio maybe once in my running career.
But yeah, with the stress factor, I knew, I knew it was
something quite serious, like I didn't know it was a stress
fracture. In fact, initially I went to
physio and she advised me to get scanned and I got scanned and
they said there was something there as a reaction, but they
didn't pick it up as a stress fracture.
So but yeah, I kept going to physio, you know, every 2-3
weeks kind of. And she gave me new exercise and
stuff, but it wasn't really clearing.
So after I think of it 6-7 weeks, she advised me to go back
and get scanned again. And that's when it did sort of
pick it up as a stress fracture. But by that point, it was
already started to heal. So yeah, I kept seeing the
physio through the stress fracture.
And then I thought, well, OK, I'm back running again.
I started to, you know, she gave me this sort of routine to sort
of build up the mileage. And then the seiatic nerve
problem came on. And yeah, I've been going
reasonably regularly to to sort of get that thing.
So yeah. So physio has been really good.
So. But yeah, so obviously it's it's
not cheap going to physios stuff.
So yeah, I try not to when I when I can avoid it, but this
time I definitely needed it. Yeah, and when I get injured,
it's usually because of my shoes.
You need to change them. Whatever.
The rest is that you're doing the ACP and like Lakeland W
Helen Way, it's obviously different terrains.
Is that different shoes? Definitely different shoes.
So yeah, like the AC PS that kind of there was well, I used
was wearing paper place. So kind of super shoes if you
like. And then obviously the yeah,
those those trail ones on I'm not using I'm just using well,
read me questions, normal trail shoes.
So there's definitely variation of my shoes and even during the
week, actually, depending what I'm doing, I'll, I'll change
issues. So like the intervals and the
long runs I'll use yeah, I'll use paper place actually for
those just not, not because I want to go faster, but because I
want to get recover from the quicker.
And then I've got other sort of lower profile shoes just for my,
you know, my easier runs. So I I definitely vary the shoes
up, maybe push the lifetime of them too much possibly.
I don't know. I mean, they're not cheap
either. So and you go through high
mileage. So yeah, but so it could could
be issues, but it could be any number of things to like physio
was, you know, suggesting, you know, things like even Reds,
maybe it wasn't, it didn't have the right energy intake, you
know, for the mileage it was doing, could have been doing too
much mileage, which I definitely have up over the last couple of
years. So yeah, it's very hard to say
like. Yeah, it's all very well one of
us saying that that's what's wrong with us.
But we're we're not professionals.
We're just runners who think we know better.
Yeah, absolutely. So to be honest, I think the, I
think the 2nd sciatic nerve problem probably came as a
result of having a stress fracture and then weaknesses
kind of came in from not, you know, not running for a long
period. So yeah, so it's probably
cumulative if you like. Yeah.
Have you got any other pieces of kits other than your shoes that
are stand out that your go to pieces of kit?
And shoes actually for the for the trails, I really I highly
rate the Adidas Terex speed ultras.
Those are definite coaches for the for the long ultra stuff.
Otherwise kits, my kits fairly basic.
I like a good pair of shorts. So I use Ron Hill sort of 5 inch
split ones there. They they just, yeah, feel good.
But yeah, otherwise just using standard T-shirts or whatever.
Keep in with the West Island Way sponsors there.
I think Ron Hill's been with them for a long time.
Yeah, well, they, they do do nice stuff, to be fair.
Like even the top, the top they gave us for the, you know, the
West Island way top, It's, yeah, it's got a lovely, lovely
texture to it. So what do you do?
You listen to music podcasts around like that while you're
running. Training runs I do yeah pretty
much all the name music actually sorry, it's really boring.
I just I have the same music loaded and so for months and
even years. I'll I won't bother replacing
it. So I basically listening to
almost the same stuff, repeat it over and over.
Not the same song. Like I'll see, I've got, I don't
know, 30-40 songs on there and they just go through shuffle
races. I don't tend to.
Although actually for the West Island way for the first time, I
think, where was it? Glencoe?
I, I put on some, some headphones there just to sort
of, yeah, just to, I knew that next patch there was a, a long
stretch of sort of flat before you get to Devil's Staircase and
stuff. So just to break it up I thought
I'd put on a bit of music, but I don't normally wear it wear them
in in events. OK, there You say you've got a
playlist that you use all the time.
I've got one as well, but it's 15 hours long.
But it means that you can go into places like say you're on
the West Ham away and you get no signal.
If you've already got the playlist downloaded, then you
don't need to worry about that. It's yeah, it's one last thing
to worry about. Yeah, no, it's, it's nice.
But yeah, probably 15 hours is probably good because you don't
know what's coming next first. Yeah, I I know half an hour
later I'll probably get back to SO.
So a really deep question coming up.
Why do you run? Oh gosh, that is David.
There's been times in the past I've asked myself that because
there have been times actually in the past where I've not
really enjoyed the training. And so I was like, well, why am
I doing it? I think the, I don't know why I
started running, if I'm honest, but I think now that I've got
into running, first of all, I really enjoy the social aspect
of it. I'm not the most social person,
so I don't have big networks of friends outside of running.
So I, I kind of really almost rely on the running to kind of,
you know, keep in contact with people.
So that's pretty important to me.
And then I, I really do enjoy the challenge of running.
So like going into events and testing, you know, marathon was
kind of see what time I could do or not necessarily marathon, but
even 510 KS and things like that.
But in order to do that, you obviously need to put in the
training stuff. Kind of kept me motivated there
as I've probably gone off more away.
I guess I'll do Rd. stuff too for sure.
But as I've done more off road stuff, I've started to
appreciate more of the extra the environment.
So it's just gone off into hills and stuff.
So I probably enjoy my running better now, like the training
and stuff better than I did in the past.
So that obviously keeps on going and well, doing well and events
like, you know, like at the weekend that's, you know, that's
nice to yeah. Well, leading on from that, when
you're not got anything in your ears, listening to whoever
question that I always get asked is what do you think about when
you're running? Not very much I I don't think I
have any real coherent thoughts. Like I'm sure I'm thinking about
things, but there's it's not like I go out and figure out my
day or figure out my life. I sometimes it is almost just
yeah, like well what pace am I doing or how's it feeling or
just I'm sure little thoughts come and go, but there's
nothing, yeah, there's no real deep thinking there.
So it's hard to hard to pinpoint while I'm actually thinking
about this. Maybe just, you know, when, when
what's coming up next door in the corner, you know, it's yes.
It's not nothing of importance, I would say.
I I used to run with a colleague from work at lunchtime and we
would be running together, chatting away, solve every
problem that we had at work. As soon as we go back to the
office for forgot it's all. So it doesn't matter what you're
thinking about it because you can't remember.
Afterwards, yeah, exactly. I sometimes I've actually, I'm
lying in bed and that's where all the real great thoughts come
and then I get up in the morning.
I've forgotten. So yeah, I'm sure I'm thinking
about something running, but like it's nothing.
Nothing that's. Nothing important because it was
important. You would remember it.
So yeah, probably. So think about before a race,
have you got any sort of rituals that you do, anything that you
must eat, anything like that? I suppose I've got a routine.
I wouldn't as you say, Rachel, but yeah, I kind of have this
routine of each maybe three years before and then sort of
that last, yeah, maybe I don't know, an hour to 45 minutes
before, take a gel and then I'll do my warm up exercises.
I've kind of got a set routine of exercises that I kind of go
through probably for the longer stuff there, they're not as
important just because you, you start off slower, slower and you
can kind of work into it a bit easier.
But I, I kind of have this routine I sort of go through
generally and then obviously that takes me up to about 1520
minutes before when you're starting to get towards the
start line and stuff. So yeah, that's kind of the
routine I would say. But I, I don't have any, I don't
have anything like have to, you know, yes, some good, good luck
charm or something. Yeah, I, I always used to say
that there's no point in doing a, a warm up because you're
going to be running for 95 miles, the 1st 5 miles of your
warm up. But as as I'm getting older I've
definitely start feeling it like it's it's definitely a warm up
because I feel a lot better after the first 5 miles.
Yeah, no, I think there is, again, I noticed that even in,
in training, like say training, it's just going out for a run.
That first mile for sure is it's much slower than the others for
the seminar sort of, you know, perceived efforts.
So I think it, the body definitely takes a little bit to
to to warm up to. I'm not saying I've done a mile
or two before the West side. Yeah, it's enough to come.
But I still went through and done some basic stretches and
stuff just to kind of get the muscles sort of moving.
Well, I'll let you into a little secret.
Rob Sinclair did do 2 miles beforehand.
Fair enough. Yeah, No, I don't.
Yeah, I mean, I do. I do think there is something in
getting the muscle stresses of properly.
So definitely for shorter stuff like I suppose the reason I
partly do that routine is coming from, you know, running with a
club. They kind of got, you know, even
before training sessions, we would do these sort of running
drills. And so for shorter races like,
you know, well, even up to up to Marth.
And I definitely went through religiously these these kind of.
Yeah. I think for certain races like a
Marth and you're going out at pace right from the start, so
you need to be warmed up. Absolutely no.
Taking it easy. Yeah, not for sure exactly.
So like, yeah, that's why the West End way.
As I said, I I did a few token things just to sort of stretch
myself out, but I didn't do any run before it.
And thinking about leading up to the race, were you nervous?
A little bit more apprehensive actually, just because my
fitness wasn't where I well wasn't where I would normally
want it to be, or at least I didn't think it was.
As it panned out, it was fine, but I definitely huge question
marks over whether I had enough mileage in my legs.
So as I'll say, going into kind of excited the fact that I was
even on the start lane because for a long time I didn't think
I'd actually get there, but I was definitely was a wee bit
apprehensive of of, of yeah, not having done enough training
probably for one of the first times.
I wasn't too nervous actually. I wasn't like, I kind of went
into not having any pressure on myself to kind of do well or
anything too much expectation because partly because, yeah,
the training hadn't gone the way it's sort of planned.
So in that sense, I wasn't nervous.
It's just more I was more nervous of the the the distance
and whether I could actually make it all the way to Fort Fort
William. And do you think taking the
pressure off yourself, the no expectations, actually helped
with the race? Yeah, I think, I think I
probably did, yeah. Because they even those early
bits were, you know, there was certainly, as I said, there's
early on, there was a big group of us.
And even when I was running with Robbie at that point, I wasn't
really thinking of it as a race. I was actually more just trying
to have some good company with him.
And and so I kind of knew the race.
That's, you know, if if I my running could keep going like it
wouldn't start till later on anyway.
But yeah, so those early parts, I wasn't really, yeah, nervous
and I said and not maybe not have an expectation probably
probably help with that. Whereas before if maybe if I
went into it expecting to be kind of at the front or
something and you know, there was lots of people around me and
might feel more pressure. But yeah.
And you, you said, well you obviously you're doing sort of
100 Millers ish now and you've done 10 years of marathon.
How many marathons have you done?
I've done probably a bit, probably with 12 or 13
altogether. I think I've done London, I
think I've done London five times and I've done balfast
maybe about five times. And then I've done a, yeah, a
few others, just just random ones.
And I of all the sort of distances, what distance do you
prefer nowadays? That's a hard one.
That's a really hard one. Genuinely, I, there's something
about the short stuff, the those 510 KS that are really
competitive, that's it's a very different feeling to, to running
a, you know, an ultra because a lot of the altars I've run, you
spend a lot of your time by yourself and you're not really
even in competition. And that's not necessarily me
being at the front. That's just means you're, you
know, this field spreads out so much, whereas the short stuff
that's you're constantly, you know, that that Renlin is
constantly running. So probably because I've seen
more success from the longer stuff, maybe that, yeah, maybe
that's more of my preference is going now.
But at the same time, I still really enjoy doing the short
stuff. I'd like to think I keep in
touch with the short stuff just because it is it is good fun.
And you can, you can do them a lot more frequent too.
It's not, you know, I'm not going to run 100 miles every
week, but, you know, you can't. You could run 5 and 10 KS fairly
fairly frequently if you wanted to.
Yeah. All right, I'm going to get back
on to the deep questions again. Have you got any running heroes?
Yeah. So for a long time, Paula
Ratcliffe was, Yeah. When I was sort of in marathon
stuff, she was, she was an icon for me.
Yeah. I, I probably grew up at the
time when she was, you know, yeah, doing all her best stuff.
So even when she was actually on the track, not quite making it
on some of those big track events, the effort she put in,
she kind of. Yeah, there's something about
her. I've also followed Paula
probably more recently as I've got into ultras, I start to
appreciate, you know, a lot of these people like Killian Jordan
and stuff, but even closer to home, like people like Mark
Darbyshire and, you know, Tom Evans and stuff.
Some of those guys are pretty special so.
And yeah, question that you might not know the answer to.
Do you know what your VO2 Max is?
No, no, I think my watch tells me it's, you know, watch tells
me it's a 57. I have no idea.
I don't. Really.
No, I I don't believe it, but my watch says exactly the same
thing. Paula Radcliffe's VO2 Max when
she was at her peak was 70. Yeah, fair enough.
Yeah, yeah, I, I, as I said, I don't, that's one, that's
certainly one. Well, I'm not huge into stats
and stuff, but that's, that's one metric I don't really pay
much heat on. But I, I, I must admit, yeah,
have heard like, you know, obviously following her that she
was pretty standard in terms of the POT Max.
So yeah. So it's it's understandable why
she was so good. So.
Yeah, yeah, well, that's the thing.
I think she she genuinely felt ahead of her time.
You know, other people like, you know, Hailey Cabrus lost and
stuff too. But but like the fact that Paul
is more than time stood for so long and you know, it's only
recently that's, you know, especially with shoes and
nutrition and all coming along that people be able to break it.
And yeah, I think it shows she was, she was definitely up
there. Right.
Next deep question, If you could go back in time to when you
started running so 2010 I think you said, what would you tell
yourself that you know now? I think, I think I'd have told
myself to do the trail stuff more sooner because that's I
think that's where the enjoyment has come.
That's not that didn't enjoy running before, but I said some
of the road stuff, yeah, it's hard training and it's not
always the most exciting, you know, some of the training.
Whereas I think with the, the off road I've, I've got more
enjoyment in the running. So I probably would have told
myself to, you know, stop being fixated on marathon time or even
half marathon times sooner. And yeah, because probably there
was quite a few years actually there where I probably had a bit
of an urge to move off, try something different, go away
from Rd. but somewhere was still hooked on this ambition of
trying to bring down my more than time.
So yeah. OK.
And I asked you about your your distance, but is there any, have
you got a bucket list? Is there any dream races that
you would want to do? I think, yeah, bucket list.
There's a wee bit of me would like to try something like a
Spain, not necessarily the Spain, but something like that
or Northern Traverse or the Race across Scotland, some of those
really long stuff. So a bit of me would like to,
the other half of me says don't be stupid.
So in one sense they're bucket list.
And that's, yeah, who knows, One day I might, and one day I
might. What?
What is it about them that you attract you to it?
I think it's as I've sort of started to follow more of this
stuff that's, you know, you, you, you don't, well, I do not
watch like like a lot of people do.
And it's, I think there's something almost romantic about
them. And that's what, yeah, makes me
kind of want to sort of test myself and go out and experience
that for myself. But at the same time, when I run
100 mile and I think, Oh, my God, how long is this?
Yeah, that's where the other half of me says, yeah, you know,
stay put before you're at. How's.
Your navigation pretty. Poor.
Yeah, pretty poor. Because that's the other thing
too. It's actually the time
commitment. And I, I almost feel like I'd
have to Iraqi the whole thing at least once before I do it.
So the time commitment in terms of, you know, going away for
weekends and stuff away from the family and stuff to, to do the
Rakis and stuff, it's it's a big commitment.
So it's not just a, it's not just a whim thing for me.
I have to really commit to it. And then there's obviously all
the cost and the kit and stuff like that that goes with it.
So. It's the spine for me.
I I'd love to do the race, but I'm not.
I don't know if I'm confident enough to think that I could
navigate it at speed. I see.
Yeah, well that's the thing, navigating through nights, yeah,
even if you have wrecked it, it's not easy like you, you have
to be really alert. So I think, yeah, I think with a
Spain, I suppose with watches and stuff.
Now I'm not too, I'm not too concerned by the navigation.
But I suppose what I've actually a more apprehensive is that I've
committed all that money to, you know, staying up to it and buy
all the kit and stuff and then I, I don't make it.
And that's where I would feel like I've kind of it's a huge
investment and that may not actually come out with the the
outcome of this sort of one. So, well, a race that I've done
is the tunnel. Have you heard of that one?
Oh yeah. Yeah, that's definitely not on
my bucket list. So there's no navigation needed,
it's pure pure running so. Yeah.
So I'm not that desperate to do together.
Yeah, I think actually something like a like a backyard ultra,
that is something probably more attainable.
I think I probably will do something like one of those.
In fact, this year if I hadn't been injured, maybe I would have
done. But so, yeah, maybe next year,
the year after, I probably will revisit.
Well, I'll, I'll maybe see you. I've done 9 so far, so maybe see
you. And of course.
I know your your backyard king so.
Last question, what's next? Well I've got a place at
Lakeland 50 for this year. I basically said to myself I'd
see how chemo recovery wise after after the West anyway.
So because it's only 5 weeks between them so the touch with
so far this week's feeling good, but I don't want to yeah, I
don't want to pressurize myself. So I'm going to see how the next
week goes and if I'm feeling good then and maybe try and get
in a a long run or so. And then I'm basically into
taper. So all being well, I'll be in
the start line of Lakeland 50. Beyond that, I don't don't
really have anything. There's yeah, there's some short
stuff I might, yeah, plan to do, but not nothing big in my head
at the moment. So.
OK. I said that was the last
question. I've just thought of one more.
Who was the midges on lock side not?
Too bad actually, I mean that was another.
I was quite apprehensive after that.
I bought all this smidge cream and stuff and I totally covered.
I felt running. They weren't too bad admittedly
the the odd time I stopped, when I stopped and roared in and I
definitely noticed them. I felt for my crew.
So I I think, yeah, I think the crew and the the marshals
probably had a really tough time, but actually running, they
weren't as bad as I thought. I don't know how that compares
to past years because I've heard some horror stories where you
can almost hardly breathe, but I didn't feel too bad like there
were those that were there and you know, my neck was covered
with them and stuff like that. They were stuck to me.
But no, actually for running the well, it was actually run
moving. It was.
They were fine. I didn't even notice them if I'm
honest. But yeah, the check some of the
checkpoints, I kind of noticed them briefly, but right.
Well, you obviously enjoyed your time in Scotland and
congratulations again and thank you for being on the show.
It's been a welcome pleasure. And thanks everybody for
listening and goodbye. Yeah, goodbye everyone.