1 00:00:21,850 --> 00:00:24,010 Hi and welcome back to the Run to Run. 2 00:00:24,330 --> 00:00:29,290 Tonight we've got a returning guest, Ian Bethune, who has just 3 00:00:29,290 --> 00:00:35,290 been away on a little trip to Tennessee to a little known race 4 00:00:35,850 --> 00:00:40,200 called the Barclay Marathons. Well, I'm, I'm sure we'll get 5 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,320 into what the Barclay marathons actually are, but we, we put out 6 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,720 a question on Instagram and Facebook of what what people 7 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,800 want to know about the race. And we are fully aware that it 8 00:00:53,800 --> 00:01:00,840 is quite a secretive. We'll find out why, what is 9 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:07,920 secretive, and hopefully Ian will tell us what he can and 10 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,360 tell us what he can't talk about. 11 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,760 And as in, he will say he won't talk about it because he's not 12 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,400 allowed to, because if he's got any interest in going back, he 13 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,360 won't be allowed if he leaks anything and it could jeopardize 14 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,720 the whole race. So we're fully expecting him to 15 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:31,000 say no, go away. Absolutely, yeah, I've got got 16 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,880 got a few red lines and if we try and cross them I will tell 17 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,640 tell you to stop. It's OK, Ian, we know that. 18 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,560 It's me that we'll probably ask those questions. 19 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,000 We're ready. As we said, Ian is a returning 20 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,880 guest. So if you want to know all about 21 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,960 Ian, we have got a previous episode. 22 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,960 Please go back and listen to it. Tonight's episode we're 23 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,920 concentrating on the adventure that he has just had less than 24 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,200 two weeks ago. So welcome back, Ian. 25 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,360 Yeah. Thanks for having me. 26 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,800 Looking forward to it. Thanks so much for coming on, 27 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,639 Ian. So the first question and to 28 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,360 make surprise, I've not even got this wrote down because he 29 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,680 mentioned that in the intro. A good place to start, I would 30 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,880 imagine. As for those that don't know, 31 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,520 what are the Barclay marathons? Sure. 32 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,040 So I'll give you the the short version. 33 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,360 I mean, I, I the famous I wrote in my my race report blog. 34 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,920 If, if you really have never heard the Barclays, you know, 35 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,160 pause this video now pause the podcast you listen to go to 36 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,360 YouTube and search for where dreams go to die, which is the, 37 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,760 you know, the most recent comprehensive documentary on it. 38 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,400 Or there's a really good one called the race. 39 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,480 It's it's young, which some people can get on YouTube, 40 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,600 depending on where you are. But basically, what is the 41 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:55,920 Barclay marathons? So it is 100 Miller and the 42 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:57,760 reason for the courts will be clear in a minute. 43 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:02,200 It's held in Frozen Head State Park in Tennessee over in the 44 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:05,040 States. And it is one of the races which 45 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,520 is kind of the brainchild of Lazarus Lake and the guy behind 46 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,320 the the backyard ultra and and many other ultra races. 47 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:20,560 And so the format of it is it is five loops of a 20 mile course. 48 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:27,120 And that again the, the, the air quotes there is because the, the 49 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,480 route ever since it was 100 Miller, which is about 30 odd 50 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:35,680 years ago, the route has been exactly 20 miles, even though it 51 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,200 changes every year. And you know, it's widely kind 52 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,600 of known to be significantly over 20 miles. 53 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,080 So if you do the full 5 loops to complete the course, you end up 54 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,200 doing significantly more than 100 miles. 55 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:54,440 So it's essentially all off trail in this in Frozen Head 56 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,600 State Park, which is a, you know, really mountainous, 57 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,960 heavily forested State Park. And yeah, it's, it's off trail 58 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,720 and there's no marks route. You have to navigate yourself 59 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,440 around in these woods. You're not allowed any 60 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,440 electronic aids. So you're basically navigating 61 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:20,279 with a map and compass. The race organizers do provide a 62 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,440 map with the route on it, but not a printed copy for everybody 63 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:25,720 like you might get some other races. 64 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,360 There's one copy that gets laid out on a picnic bench about 12 65 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,880 hours before the race starts, and you have to copy it onto 66 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,080 your own map. So that's a little bit of a 67 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,400 little bit of extra challenge there. 68 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,280 They also give you a set of written instructions, which is 69 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:47,240 about, you know, thick pages for, for the clockwise 70 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,920 description, another 6 pages for the anti clockwise loop 71 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,640 description. And again, if you've read any of 72 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,320 Lassie's writing, you know, he's, he writes a lot on 73 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,200 Facebook and things about and he's written books and things. 74 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,520 He's a very idiosyncratic way of writing. 75 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,840 And the instructions, you know, might be more or less helpful, 76 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:10,600 shall we say. So. 77 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,080 Yeah. So that that's the the format of 78 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:19,360 the race and yeah, but it's also basically completely non 79 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,840 supported as well. So from when you start that 20 80 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:26,160 mile loop, then you're you're on your own. 81 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:32,120 Usually there's one or two water drops and where they just leave 82 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,160 these, you know, they're probably 10 or 20 litre 83 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,320 containers of water out. Those, of course, may be frozen. 84 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,920 The race is held in the kind of, yes, spring, winter kind of 85 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,800 boundary. Like historically, it was always 86 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:54,040 held around April Fool's weekend, but more recent years, 87 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,120 it's got earlier and earlier in the year. 88 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:01,280 So, yeah, it's certainly not uncommon for those, you know, 89 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:05,320 water drops to be frozen solids. And the weather can be. 90 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,120 In fact, the weather at Frozen Head State Park is it's 91 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,000 notorious for being a microclimate. 92 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,080 So, you know, it can really change very rapidly between 93 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,920 what's at camp and, and what's at the top of the the mountains. 94 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,000 And I didn't say as well, actually, as well as it being 95 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,400 at, you know, 20 mile loop. Each loop has nominally 15,000 96 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:31,360 feet of climbing and descending, so again, if you do the full 5 97 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,840 loops to complete the race, that's 75,000 feet of a cent and 98 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:38,880 descent, which is roughly equivalent to climbing Everest 99 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,360 twice from sea level. So yeah, steep off trail, 100 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,400 hardened navigation, no support. You can see why I thought it was 101 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,400 a fun idea to go and do it. And you said you're not, that 102 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,280 you weren't allowed any electronics. 103 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,600 And a lot of people are used to having Agps watching the wrist. 104 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,280 Yeah. Did you have your GPS? 105 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,720 No, I mean you, you, you're, you're absolutely not allowed to 106 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,240 take any form of electronics with I mean the only electrical 107 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:12,520 light you can take is head torch. 108 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:19,120 And then the, the race management issue you with a 109 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:23,360 watch which for the last couple of years has been like just a, 110 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:28,080 you know, cheapo Casio digital watch and it's set to race time. 111 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:32,320 So it like it goes to 0000 when the race starts. 112 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,480 The other thing I didn't mention is that the race, the actual 113 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,720 when you, when you go to the race, you know what day it's 114 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,560 going to start on. And but it can start at any time 115 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,680 within a 12 hour window from midnight through the the midday 116 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:50,600 of the following day. And that start gets announced by 117 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:57,160 Las bluing a a conch shell. And so you kind of, you know, in 118 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:01,040 this case, you know, we were all asleep during the night and you 119 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,760 get woken by the the blast of this kind of horn conch sound 120 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,520 and that signals you got an hour till the start of the race. 121 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,480 And at that point, the issue with the watches, of course, 122 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:12,400 because they're, they're set to race time and they don't want to 123 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,960 reveal what the start time is. So yeah, you're out there by 124 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,400 yourself. The only bit of technology 125 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,320 you've got is this watch that's just taking the the time away. 126 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:28,240 And if you, if you run, the time limit for the to do the full 100 127 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:33,320 mile race would be 60 hours. So that's, you know, 2 1/2 days 128 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:40,679 of yeah of good fun. So if you if your watch is set 129 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,560 to race time so it's going to take down to 0, how long before 130 00:08:45,560 --> 00:08:49,240 did you get your watch? Yeah, so as soon as the the 131 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,040 conch has been blowing, so one hour to the start, then the 132 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,600 watches are available for collection. 133 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,760 So I think I, you know, so I, I was, I was asleep. 134 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,440 So you're allowed crew. So this year you're allowed one 135 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,160 crew person. So my crew who went over with me 136 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:12,120 was Alan Parkin, who I know at least Mike will know. 137 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,680 So I gave Alan the unenviable task of staying awake all night 138 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,080 and listening for this conch while I was fast asleep in my 139 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:22,520 tent. So. 140 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,320 Yeah. So yeah, Well, I did wake up 141 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,400 when I heard it, Yeah. Got changed, got some breakfast 142 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,480 into me and then went and collected my watch probably half 143 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,080 an hour before the start. Something like that. 144 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,320 Do you think you're you're backyard? 145 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,760 You're used to getting up, You might get 5 minutes sleep and 146 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,640 then you get up for a yard. There's another last lake race. 147 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,800 Do you think after the conch blew that was the equivalent of 148 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,040 2 minutes to the next yard? Do you think that helped? 149 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,520 I'm not sure that the backyard kind of the experience of the 150 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,960 backyard is necessarily helpful in not getting ready in an hour. 151 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:11,000 I mean, but if an spoiler alert, I only completed one loop and if 152 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,360 I'd gone out to a second loop and you know that transition 153 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,280 between loop 1 and two, we are very much thinking about it in 154 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,200 terms of like backyard style. Be really efficient, quick as 155 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,080 you can, you know, be in and out in like 10 minutes if we could 156 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,240 have so. And you know, Alan's an 157 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:31,480 experienced backyarder and backyard crewer and I've done it 158 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,800 many times as well. So, you know, we, we, we had a 159 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,400 good plan for that. Unfortunately, we didn't get a 160 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,560 chance to get into practice. So I have two questions off of 161 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:44,560 the back of that. The first one is did you get to 162 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,560 keep the watch? And the second one is, how did 163 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:52,520 you manage to sleep knowing that from midnight on the day you 164 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,000 knew it was starting, that you could have been cold at any 165 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,480 time? I don't know if I'd have been 166 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,600 able to sleep. Yeah, I mean, so the first 167 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,160 thing, no, no, we didn't get, we had to hand the watches back in 168 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,320 at the end. And I assume though I thought 169 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,200 they were the same set of watches that were used last year 170 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,720 and maybe they'll use them again, I don't know. 171 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:20,080 But you know, sleeping, I mean, so like similar to the, the 172 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,080 backyards, I suppose, you know, lies is quite like a, a 173 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:28,440 psychological guy and likes to kind of play with your mind a 174 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,520 bit these races and, and the, the start time uncertainty is 175 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,880 kind of part of that. And my way of thinking about 176 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,040 most preparing for this is like, obviously there's going to be 177 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:38,760 uncertainty. Like, you know, you don't know 178 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,760 even what the route's going to be exactly until the day before. 179 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,840 You don't know what the start time is going to be until an 180 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,800 hour before. There's like all these things 181 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,800 that are like uncontrollable stuff that you just can't 182 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,240 influence. You just got to deal with it 183 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,600 when it comes. But there's a whole bunch of 184 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,560 other stuff that you can predict and can prepare for. 185 00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:00,480 So, so that part is like, well, the start time, I just don't 186 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,320 know what it's going to be, so I'm just not going to worry 187 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,560 about it. And, you know, the and the and 188 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:08,520 the plan was said we had in place was that, you know, Alan 189 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,760 was going to stay up so that there's no risk of me sleeping 190 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:13,960 through it. You know, there's been stories 191 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:18,080 in the past of runners that have left through the conch and like, 192 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:19,800 you know, been late to the start. 193 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,520 And, you know, I didn't want that to be me. 194 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:29,200 But yeah, I mean, I think it kind of helped coming from UK 195 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,080 time zone to the US. So it's like 5 hour time 196 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,480 difference to the eastern half of Tennessee. 197 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:41,400 And so I although I'd been there like probably 4 days, you know, 198 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:46,040 before the the night the race was due to start, my body clock 199 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,240 still hadn't fully moved over. So like when it was like 8-9 200 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,040 o'clock in the evening, I was kind of ready to go to sleep. 201 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:58,040 So I think I was like in my sleeping bag by 8:00, you know, 202 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,440 doing some last reading over the instructions and stuff like 203 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:01,920 that. And then I think I was faster 204 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,080 asleep by about 9:00. And then in the end, the 205 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,080 conscious blowing at 5:00 in the morning. 206 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,080 So pretty much had eight hours of solid sleep, which is about 207 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:12,880 as good as you could possibly hope for, I guess. 208 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,160 And I tend to sleep quite well in the tent. 209 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,680 I mean, I know not everybody does, but works for me. 210 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:22,720 So yeah, it's good. And the you mentioned people in 211 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:27,520 the past have missed the start. Are they allowed to start late 212 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,880 because the time is not valuable or anything? 213 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,760 Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's happened for, for quite a few 214 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,520 years. So, you know, maybe they take a 215 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,680 different view of it these days. But certainly, you know, the the 216 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,920 stories I've heard was that runners were allowed to start, 217 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,800 they just started late. And it's not like the backyard, 218 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,960 you know, where you have to go when the bell goes. 219 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,800 Otherwise you're counted as a as a, you know, did not continue. 220 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:02,240 So yeah, I think even for last to like, you know, disqualify 221 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,560 somebody who'd come all the way from, you know, wherever they 222 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,320 live to run the Barclay and they overslept by half an hour. 223 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,440 He's like, no, you can't run. But obviously, you know, the 224 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,160 clock starts running at the at the 0 hour. 225 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,320 So if you're a late start, you've got less time. 226 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,280 And I didn't say it when I was describing the race, but there's 227 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,320 also cut offs for each loop as well. 228 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:27,920 So essentially like if you want to complete the full 5 loops in 229 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,640 60 hours, that's averaging 12 hours per loop. 230 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:37,320 Then there's actually a cut off of 13 hours, 20 for the 1st 231 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:38,960 loop. Well, for for each of the first 232 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:44,440 3 loops and then say. So that basically if you do 3 233 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,560 loops at 13 hours, 20 per loop, that adds up to 40 hours. 234 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,640 So if you complete 3 loops in 40 hours, you can get what's called 235 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,520 a fun run finish because you know, doing 3 loops, the 236 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Barclays fun. But if you, if you want to carry 237 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,600 on to do a 4th loop or a 10th to 4th and 5th loop, you have to 238 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,520 finish those first 3 loops within 36 hours. 239 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,080 So, you know, 12 hour, you know, keeping to that 12 hour per loop 240 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,720 average. So yeah, that's why I ended up 241 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,880 falling foul off and then I completed the 1st loop, but I 242 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,480 was over the time limit. So yeah, as I said, we didn't 243 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,880 get the opportunity then to go out on the 2nd loop, didn't have 244 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,520 to do a loop to loop transition and like that. 245 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,320 Is there a reason why 3 loops is the fun run and not 4? 246 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,960 I think it kind of goes back like so the Barclay. 247 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,880 So this year was the the 40th, the 40th anniversary of the 248 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,280 Barclay or might be the 40th running of it. 249 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,600 I can't quite remember. There's two years that it hadn't 250 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,280 run. I think in my head the first 251 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,680 year was 1986, but I'm not not 100% sure. 252 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,400 So when it originally started, it was a kind of 50 mile or 253 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:58,360 which was about 60 miles and then after so so the guy called 254 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,560 Ed Ferto, who's known as frozen Ed after the the frozen head 255 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,680 State Park. And so he was the first finisher 256 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,560 of that fifty mile or back back in back in the 80s. 257 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,040 And then they introduced the extension to the 100 Miller. 258 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:17,680 So I think that kind of is by by adding sort of another couple of 259 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,120 loops. And so I think that's kind of 260 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,600 where the the the kind of fun run and it is. 261 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:26,480 I mean, like, clearly it's really, really hard, but you 262 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:31,360 know, like the fun run is something that I think is kind 263 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:35,960 of achievable for like good runners if they have a good year 264 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,440 and don't make many mistakes. To complete the the full 100 265 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:44,200 Miller, you know, you need to be either like super elite in terms 266 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,240 of fitness or just have an ABS. You know, there have been in the 267 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:52,360 past like some, you know, not well known superstar ultra 268 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,760 runners who've come and and finished the race, but it but it 269 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,080 is rare these days. Did you have a plan to? 270 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,560 Like you said, you only did one. Yeah, and we'll find out why 271 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,520 that was the case. Did you have a plan to or an 272 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,760 aim? Was it to finish five loops, was 273 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,000 it to do the fun run? Or was it just to get round one? 274 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:18,800 Yeah, I mean, I had, I had thought about this, you know, 275 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:20,640 what's the right way to approach the race. 276 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,000 And the difficulty is, is that, you know, I mean, I've done a 277 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,319 lot of research, so I had a very good idea what it's getting 278 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:31,560 myself into, but it's very hard to find something that's a good 279 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,800 analogue of it to predict how well you're likely to perform. 280 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:39,880 So until I went there, like, I really had no good idea how I 281 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,360 could stack up, you know? So like I planned for and hoped 282 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:47,400 for the best, you know, I had food bags made-up for five 283 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,440 loops, you know, but I just didn't know whether that was 284 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,360 going to be realistic for me. So I took the view of right, 285 00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:59,720 well, I'm going to go, go, as, you know, go as fast as I can, 286 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:03,640 as hard as I can. And just, you know, take it one 287 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,240 loop at a time. Because, you know, I mean, I, I 288 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,720 did have a good idea like what sort of pace you need to run at, 289 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,240 you know, what sort of times you need to hit in order to have a 290 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,480 reasonable chance of, of getting rounds to a fun run. 291 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,160 And, you know, I would be lying if I didn't say I thought I 292 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:26,480 could do at least a couple of loops, but that was very much 293 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,520 what I hoped I could do. I didn't know if I'd be capable 294 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,840 of doing that. And as it turned out on this, 295 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,160 this occasion, you know, it turned out I wasn't. 296 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:40,960 But I think I mean, again, there have been some people who've 297 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,080 rocked up to the Barclay and you finished it on their first rate 298 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,080 the first attempt or finished a fun run in the first attempt. 299 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,920 But generally speaking, it's you know, and haven't spoken to some 300 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,080 people have been involved in previous years. 301 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,680 It's kind of expected to be a multi year project where you go, 302 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,800 you learn a lot the first year you're there. 303 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,120 I mean, again, people had talked to said, you know, do your 304 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:09,280 research, do your homework, be prepared, But nothing can quite 305 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,720 prepare you for being there. And you, you will learn a hell 306 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,120 of a lot in that first year you're there. 307 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,800 And, and some, for some people, they go there, they learn a hell 308 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,240 of a lot and they go, I don't want to ever do this ever again. 309 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,400 And, and you know, for other people, they learn a lot and, 310 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,720 and hopefully get a chance to come back and do again and do 311 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,680 better. And you've got people like 312 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,680 previous guest John Kelly who go there, finish it, and they 313 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,520 haven't learned not to go back again and see what you learn the 314 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,280 next time. Yeah, yeah. 315 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,640 Well, that and that's the other thing is that they, you know, 316 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,480 the course constantly gets tweaked every year. 317 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,880 So I don't think there's been any years for the course has 318 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,960 been exactly the same from year to year. 319 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,880 Generally speaking, it's pretty similar. 320 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,800 But when somebody finishes the race, then the race management 321 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,160 will make the race harder. So their idea is to keep it at 322 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,400 this. What they say is that, you know, 323 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,680 at the outer limits of of, you know, human possibility. 324 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,200 So if people can finish it, we'll make it a little bit 325 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,840 harder. And so it was 2024, they 326 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,680 actually had five finishers of the full 100 miles, which was 327 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,160 like unprecedented in the, in the history of the race, 328 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,560 including famously, you know, Jasmine Paris being the first 329 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:31,600 woman to finish it. So I think it's in 2025, they, 330 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,480 you know, made a fairly significant revision to the 331 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,560 course, which, you know, of course made it harder. 332 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,480 And this year was again, pretty similar. 333 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,600 And there's been, there was quite a lot of discussion, you 334 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,760 know, on Facebook groups and stuff after 2025 where there was 335 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,080 like John Kelly, who's a three time finisher of the race and 336 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:57,720 like all around Barclay legend, he managed a fun run on the 2025 337 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,600 course with like 10 minutes to spare. 338 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:01,520 And it was the only person that did that. 339 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:04,440 And there was this kind of various people ringing their 340 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,440 wringing their hands going well, has this gone too far this time? 341 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:13,000 He's made it impossible. But you know, he's just said 342 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,720 really well, you know, it's now up to the runners to to raise 343 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,440 their game. You know, the course is what it 344 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:19,560 is. I'm sure it'll be tweaked again 345 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,600 a little bit for future years, but it will kind of remain at 346 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,960 the same rough level of difficulty. 347 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:32,400 I know those before there was periods like in the 20 tens, I 348 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,000 think where there was like 8 years where nobody finished the 349 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,400 race. And then eventually, you know, 350 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,200 runners got better, they figured it out, they figured out the 351 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,400 navigation, you know, improved their skills, etcetera and and 352 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,720 people finished it. So I think that's what Liza's 353 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,840 waiting for, and if it's another eight years before anybody 354 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,240 finishes it, that's fine with him. 355 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,520 And you mentioned Jasmine Paris there, there is a a really good 356 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,600 YouTube documentary about her doing the race which is well 357 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,120 worth a watch. Yeah, yeah, there's loads of 358 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:07,240 stuff out there. Like if you go, yeah, I did a 359 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,680 lot of research. I can't remember, like I must 360 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:15,160 have listened to about like 50 hours plus of podcast stuff, 361 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,720 like every YouTube including like, you know, German and 362 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,800 French documentaries with subtitles and AI dubbing and all 363 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,760 this kind of stuff. You can really go down the 364 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,360 rabbit hole on this race and there is loads of good stuff out 365 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,800 there. Well, while you were doing your 366 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:35,880 researching and you put your entry in, which I think we know 367 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,040 as a secret, not many people know how to enter, which is one 368 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,240 of the beautiful mysteries of the race. 369 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:48,880 But you eventually get told that you're in and you obviously have 370 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,440 quite a lot of running pals that know how big a deal the Barclay 371 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,760 is. How did you manage to keep it a 372 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:01,120 secret? Yeah, I mean, obviously like you 373 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,800 Oh yeah, it's no, no, no secret that, you know, I've been 374 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:06,880 interested in doing the Barclay and I think I've said to people 375 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,560 that I, you know, I knew how to enter, sorry, I should say I 376 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,520 knew how to apply. So I'll not say too much more 377 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:17,360 about the application process. But actually, I mean, you know, 378 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:21,440 Laz has talked about in quite a lot of detail and and Jared 379 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,200 Campbell as well, who's like the the all time GOAT Barclays four 380 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,760 time finisher. He's talked about it quite a lot 381 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,600 and, and they both describe it as like a filtering process that 382 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,760 it's hard because if you made it easy, all these people that have 383 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,520 like no business being at the race because they wouldn't have 384 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,720 a clue. You know, if you're like, the 385 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,920 first hurdle is figuring out how to apply and if you've got the 386 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,720 right kind of dedication and attention to detail to figure 387 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,720 out how to do that, that tends to translate into the kind of 388 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,200 people that will do better in the race. 389 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,720 So that's that's their kind of idea. 390 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,680 So, yeah. And again, it's well known that, 391 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,320 you know, once you've sent in your application at some point, 392 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,040 as you said, yeah, you get your, what they call the letter of 393 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,960 condolence, which is last year, I'm sorry to inform you that you 394 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,640 have been allowed to enter the Barclay Marathons. 395 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,160 And, and yeah, see you get that, you know, I'll just say at some 396 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:28,160 point later on in the year and, you know, as people now know, so 397 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,840 this year the race was on the 4th February, the 14th, which is 398 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,760 like almost a month. I mean, I said it's been 399 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,400 gradually getting earlier since the original April date, but 400 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:43,760 this was like almost a month earlier than than than what was 401 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,720 what's been in previous years. So, yeah, like for me, I was 402 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,760 like, OK, right. I've got a month less to train 403 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:59,040 for this than I thought I might. So I suppose in some way, like, 404 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,040 yeah, I mean, there's quite often I kind of like, guess when 405 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,880 the Barclay is going to happen and guess who's going to Barclay 406 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,040 and people like, start looking at people's Strava and things 407 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,280 like that. I think like people will look at 408 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,960 like John Kelly or, you know, Aurelian Sanchez or, you know, 409 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,480 other serial Barclay runners. I think I was a bit off the 410 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,480 radar. So nobody was like nobody was 411 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,640 looking at my Strava thinking I was going to the Barclay. 412 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,400 I mean, I did have a bit of fun with like posting some like 413 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,440 pictures of, oh, I'm doing some training on a steep briar 414 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,920 infested wood in the dark hint, hint, which is kind of funny. 415 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,800 And there, there was a couple of people who kind of put two and 416 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,800 two together and, and guessed I might be going, which of course 417 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:54,280 I didn't confirm to them. But there was a point, I would 418 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,360 say probably just a couple of weeks before I was actually due 419 00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,320 to go to the race where I, I put together a little Facebook group 420 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,760 of people that, you know, there was a few people that knew like, 421 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:10,080 obviously, like my close family knew, you know, Alan Mccrew, he 422 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,000 knew there's a few, few other people like that. 423 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,320 And then there was a bunch of people who I thought they'd 424 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,320 guessed or they'd asked me and I denied it kind of thing. 425 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,720 And I put them on the Facebook group and said, all right, guys, 426 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,040 I am going to Barclay. I'm not telling you when it is, 427 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,760 but but when you do find out that I'm there, you can't say 428 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,880 anything. So because as you said in the 429 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,480 introduction, you know, the race is held in a certain amount of 430 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,960 secrecy. And basically the reason for 431 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,280 that is because they don't, you know, part of the experience of 432 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,600 doing Barclay is that you're out there by yourself and they don't 433 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,400 want a whole bunch of spectators turning up at the park. 434 00:26:55,320 --> 00:27:01,600 There's already 40 runners, you know, 40 crew, assorted race 435 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,280 organization staff there. So let's say there's 100 people 436 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,440 crammed on this little campsite and they don't want loads of 437 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,200 spectators turning up. And also, you know, the majority 438 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,440 of the race, the Fed takes place off trail. 439 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,680 And so that's by special permission of the the Park 440 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,040 Authority. So again, they don't want people 441 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,360 come in, you know, going up the park trails to find out where 442 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,200 the the race route crosses it and all that kind of stuff. 443 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,640 And this year, especially the actual So I think most people 444 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,920 that know a bit about the Barclay know the kind of starts 445 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,320 and finishes at this like iconic yellow gate. 446 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,800 So that where the yellow gate is and the normal campsite that was 447 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,280 actually being renovated this year. 448 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,080 So for like the first time ever, I think the Barclay didn't 449 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:48,760 actually start at the Yellow Gate. 450 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,920 So again, even more so this year there was like we were crammed 451 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,120 into a little temporary campsite. 452 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,040 They really didn't want any, you know, a lot of the park 453 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,040 facilities and stuff were closed to the public. 454 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,200 So they really, really didn't want people coming, which is so 455 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,120 we were given like a like a three line whip. 456 00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:10,840 That's basically said if you or your crew or your friends and 457 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,200 family are responsible for leaking the date, then you're 458 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:19,320 not coming back. So that's why having So, yeah, I 459 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,640 did keep a big secret. And then, you know, as I say, a 460 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,600 couple of weeks before, I just said to those people that I 461 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,840 thought were either wearing on the secret or I thought I'd 462 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,840 guess I was like, you know, you guys, I'm telling you that I'm 463 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,200 going, but you just need to keep it under your hat. 464 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,880 And that's the way I handled it. Well, we have a mutual friend 465 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,360 who did know that you were out there who to protect their 466 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:47,040 identity will remain nameless. But I messaged them and says 467 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,280 that even at Barclay and they didn't message back. 468 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,880 And I was like, oh, I know that because they always message 469 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,840 back. I was like, oh, that must be. 470 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,920 But they didn't say anything. And then when you announced, 471 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,880 they then told me that was so hard not to say anything. 472 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,720 I said to them, I actually feel sorry for you that you and then 473 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,760 a message when you can, Rawson says. 474 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,360 If you 2 if I'll do Barclay, please don't tell me I don't. 475 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,520 Want to know that? Just don't. 476 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,160 I'm happy to find out with everyone else. 477 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,840 That's just too much. Yeah, and it's the same for me. 478 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,160 Like, you know, like as I said, it's been something I've been 479 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,880 wanting to do for years and years. 480 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,600 And when the call kind of finally comes, you're like, oh, 481 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,360 I can go to the race. You're like, I just want to tell 482 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,000 everybody, but like, you know, you can't. 483 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,320 And, and it's kind of funny that like, yeah, I mean, you know, 484 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,440 Julie was in the same as well. Obviously she knew that I was 485 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,520 there and she knew she couldn't say anything. 486 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,840 And, you know, her phone was ping, ping pinging because there 487 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,760 was this photo that came out from the start line which showed 488 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,640 the back of me. And it was the hat. 489 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,240 Yeah. So, so there was the the hat was 490 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,640 the same hat that wore at Racecourse Scotland. 491 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,520 So that was quite, quite well known. 492 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:08,040 And I had the, the, the Geo camo Flancy short that I'd done a 493 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,560 little like show and tell on on them on Instagram about a few 494 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,240 months ago. So, you know, obviously I was 495 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,600 completely offline for the duration of the race. 496 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,680 But even, you know, Alan in the camp, there was no phone 497 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,720 reception in the camp. So in order to get online, we 498 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,080 all had to like walk about about half a mile down the road to the 499 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:33,680 visitor center where there was Wi-Fi. 500 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,560 And of course, you know, for him as crew, he's sitting there 501 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,160 waiting for me to come back from the loop. 502 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,920 It doesn't know when that's going to be because, you know, 503 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,480 you've got no information. There's no GPS tracking or 504 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,240 nothing. You don't. 505 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:51,080 There's one point on the course where people can see runners 506 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,160 come through, but on this that that's about roughly 1/3 of the 507 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,800 way around. And so, you know, there's a big 508 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,920 margin of error as to how long it's going to take people to 509 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,320 come in. So he's sitting there waiting at 510 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:08,760 camp and, you know, I can't give any updates anyways and doesn't 511 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,160 know that there's this mad speculation going on. 512 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,440 And of course, it wasn't, wasn't then until I finished the race 513 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,680 was, you know, timed out. And then I walked down the road. 514 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,600 This is like around, I think we finished about 11:00 local time. 515 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,880 So walk down the road about midnight to get the Wi-Fi to 516 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,360 tell everybody that actually, yes, I had been in the race. 517 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,120 And then I sort of could see all this like, yeah, this, this 518 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,840 photo had gone round and, and various people were like posting 519 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,880 other pictures of me taken wearing some of the same care, 520 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,120 other races. And it was just really, really 521 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:46,360 funny. I I was in various groups 522 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,280 chatting about it and although it was a picture of you, we 523 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:55,640 obviously know that now. It wasn't 100% that it was you, 524 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,360 it was somebody wearing clothes that you have been previously 525 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:00,600 seen in. So. 526 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,440 I I saw people saying, no, it's definitely him. 527 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,560 It was never definitely you until you said that it was you. 528 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,600 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and that that's the kind of 529 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,600 like the sort of rules or unwritten rules about or 530 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,400 conventions about the Barclays that the, the only official 531 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,280 source of truth is this guy Keith Dunn, who has a, a Twitter 532 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,400 or Blue Sky Now feed. And he does the official race 533 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,040 announcements. And what they, what he tends to 534 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,920 do is until somebody gets to the point of completing a fun run, 535 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,240 he just refers to people by nicknames. 536 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,640 So even then, you know, there's nothing official to see who's 537 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,600 there. And so part of the idea is that, 538 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,840 you know, you can go there completely anonymously and never 539 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,760 confirm that you're even there. And so, so there's, you know, 540 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,920 for me, because I didn't officially even complete a loop 541 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,320 and you know, there's no record, no official record that I was 542 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:01,760 ever at the race. I don't appear. 543 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,760 There's not a start list, there's not a results sheet that 544 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,040 has my name on it. So, but I mean, there is, I saw, 545 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,080 you know, there's a little community of detectives on there 546 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,760 on Twitter. And I think they had a list of, 547 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,320 I think about 30 something of the 40 starters that they reckon 548 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,240 they'd identified. But again, it's then you know, 549 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,560 but it's up to the runners if they if they want to announce 550 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,320 that they were there after the fact. 551 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,840 Were you given a nickname? I didn't get a nickname because 552 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,400 I didn't complete a loop. So yeah, so that's, that's 553 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,560 that's something. If I get a chance to go back and 554 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,640 get a loop, we'll find out what they're going to call me. 555 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,360 Well, we've been quite selfish asking our questions make, 556 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,440 haven't we? So should we lay the carpet down 557 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,200 for the listener questions now? Yeah, I'm sure there'll be 558 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,600 plenty more questions coming from us as we go through these 559 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:02,160 ones. Go for it. 560 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,960 OK. First one was about entry fee. 561 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:12,560 There have been previous you got to produce number plate and it's 562 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:17,960 a small fee and other rumours. Is there anything that you can 563 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,719 tell us about what the this year's entry fee was? 564 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,440 So I mean, again, there's, there's quite a lot of 565 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,400 information already in, in the public domain. 566 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:34,320 So if you're there in your first year as what they call a virgin 567 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,120 runner and you have to bring a number plate from your, your 568 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,199 home country or state. And so that's, that's always 569 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:42,480 been the same. They get, they get hung up 570 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,000 around the, around the camp. And so by the time we finished 571 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,480 the race, there was a new section added to the hanging 572 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,360 number plates with the virgins from this year. 573 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,120 I think then if you're a veteran to returning runner, then 574 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:02,600 there's a, you know, what you have to bring varies from year 575 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,400 to year. So I think in the past it's been 576 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,520 like accessories for Lassies, wardrobes. 577 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,240 He's asked for like shirts or like socks or stuff. 578 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,640 I should say actually as well, I keep saying about Lass, he was 579 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:20,040 the originator of the race, but actually he's in the last couple 580 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:25,320 of years, he's kind of handed it over to to Carl Laniak, who's 581 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,880 now the official race director. But last is obviously he's still 582 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,800 around and he's still, you know, looms large over the event. 583 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,680 But it's actually Carl that's the the Rd. and he does the 584 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,040 registration and ultimately, I guess the the course and 585 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,000 everything else is his responsibility. 586 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,800 And so maybe, maybe now the the entry fees go to Carl, I don't 587 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,480 know. But yeah, I think the, the 588 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,440 returning veteran runners, I believe this year they had to 589 00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:02,320 bring like a like a Christmas ornament from their like, you 590 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,840 know, something that was like culturally, you know, from that 591 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,280 from there, from wherever they was, they came from. 592 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,960 And then if you're one of the finishers this year, it was just 593 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,120 John Kelly and Aurelian who are prior finishers and they have to 594 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,920 bring a pack of cigarettes, which I think was the last 595 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,320 because I don't believe Carl smokes. 596 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:24,760 Yeah, see, see. See, I'd, I'd bring a number 597 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,440 plate. But one of the other things that 598 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:32,520 they also just kind of like a fairly recent tradition, I 599 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:37,120 think. So previously, like the, the I 600 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,440 said, the Friday night, I mean, normally the race starts on 601 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,400 Saturday, but sometimes it's been midweek start. 602 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,720 So the night before, traditionally there's been like 603 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:49,880 the the Barkley chicken BBQ, which has always been a bit 604 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,680 risky because they basically BBQ the chicken from frozen. 605 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,400 So it's basically charred on the outside and raw on the inside. 606 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,800 And, and, and runners kind of tended to steer clear of it. 607 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,840 But what they did in the last few years is they've encouraged 608 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,040 people to bring foods from their like again, from their home 609 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,240 country or their home state, whatever, and have like a kind 610 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:12,160 of like potluck supper type thing. 611 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:18,960 So I brought a six pack of iron brew, some tonics, caramel 612 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:26,760 wafers and a haggis. So I say that the haggis didn't 613 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,560 go down particularly well. It was, I think alienate the 614 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,600 leftovers of that. But they, there's a I've got a 615 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,000 really nice photo of me handing a can of iron brew to last 616 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,720 because he's really into his like his sodas, like he's Doctor 617 00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:41,880 Pepper and all that kind of stuff. 618 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,880 So I was like, oh, here's, here's some Scottish soda. 619 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,960 And John Kelly would have been all over that as well. 620 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,640 A bit because he likes an iron brew. 621 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,240 Yeah, I see. I only have because I was flying 622 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:55,600 and I was kind of weight limited in my luggage. 623 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,640 I only had a six pack. So maybe if I get to go back all 624 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,760 just you know, get a second case and bring a 24 pack or 625 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,760 something, I don't know. But yeah, the the arm boot 626 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,400 disappeared in no time and then the tunnel shortly after. 627 00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:14,520 I see your number plate, Ian, just before we move on, was it 628 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,160 your own red plate that's on your car that you took over or 629 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,000 did you personalize it? You know, my, my one is 630 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,920 legitimately my, my car, but I got one that had, you know, you 631 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,400 when you get a number plate, you can choose to get the plain one 632 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,240 or like the UK one or the Scottish 1. 633 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:32,000 So I've got the, it's got the salt iron on it. 634 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,120 Yeah, the reason I ask is because on one of the pictures I 635 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,200 noticed, I know that Paul Gibblin's done Barclay before 636 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:41,920 and he's got pylon on his. Yeah. 637 00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:44,480 Cool because. It's yeah, there's quite a few, 638 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,160 like quite a few runners have got like personalized ones and 639 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:53,040 you know, like I don't think it's what it says like Barclay 640 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,200 with A4 instead of an A and stuff like that. 641 00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:59,320 But yeah, no, I went for the the genuine 1. 642 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,920 And obviously between like you changed car park, campsite, 643 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,440 whatever you want to call it this year compared to last year, 644 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,200 the number plates are not there throughout the year. 645 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:15,760 Where do they go? Are they hung up at Las's house 646 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,320 or? I think I heard him say on a 647 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,360 podcast he'd always stored them, but he's given them all to Carl 648 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,640 now. So I guess Carl comes in his 649 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:26,760 garage or something, I don't know. 650 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,200 And then they get so like one of the things that happens on the 651 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,560 day before the race before like registration is that like all 652 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,160 the runners and everyone who's there who's kind of arriving on 653 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,440 that day and pitches in together and help set up the camp. 654 00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,160 So, you know, we were like, you know, unloading firewood from a 655 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,080 truck because they had they have, you know, big like fire go 656 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,760 in for the duration, you know, hanging up all the strings so 657 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,280 that there must be, I don't know, like several hundred of 658 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,760 these number plates now. And so it's actually quite a, 659 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,400 quite a substantial task to hang them all out. 660 00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:04,200 We've had various questions about how far in advance did you 661 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,280 know that you were doing the race and I think that the key 662 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:12,560 one is Sebastian. Not even sure how to pronounce 663 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,120 his name. Is it Recon? 664 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,200 Racon. Racon Yeah. 665 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,200 Yeah, the guy that won the spine race this year. 666 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,040 Exactly. He won the spine. 667 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,520 Would he have known that he was doing Barclay when he was doing 668 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,800 the spine? Yes, John Kelly also was in the 669 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,680 spine as well and he he he fell and hurt his knee quite early 670 00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:35,840 on. He DNF D from it. 671 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,320 Yeah, he was back at Barclay. But yeah, yes, they would have 672 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:45,000 both known by that point that you only accept. 673 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,880 So, you know, they, they, they give condolences to 40 people to 674 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,240 get. So there's 40 runners on the 675 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:54,160 starting field and, you know, people can't drop out for 676 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,360 various reasons and they have a waiting list. 677 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,840 So some people can get called very, very late. 678 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,840 I think normally you see if you're an overseas runner, you 679 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,400 can't get called more than a month, like with less than a 680 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,760 month to go to the race, just because logistics makes it 681 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,040 impractical for you. But if you're AUS runner you 682 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,160 know you can get called a few days before if somebody drops 683 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,280 out. Just be ready for doing 100 plus 684 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,760 Miller in the middle of nowhere somewhere in the country. 685 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,560 I mean, last I said, you know, if you're on the wait list, you 686 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:30,840 should train like you're in the race. 687 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:36,320 Yeah. And moving on from that with the 688 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:42,040 time scale, how 2 questions do you have time to train for? 689 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,680 You've just said if you're on the wait list and you know that 690 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,240 you're doing that potentially, I would imagine that you do have 691 00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:53,760 time, but how can you train for something like that when you 692 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,280 don't really know the course or today you have an idea, but. 693 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:05,040 Yeah, I mean, so again, without, you know, saying exactly too 694 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,800 much about the the time scales. But you know, my plan had been 695 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,640 after God's own backyard in November that I was going to 696 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,040 have, you know, I'd hit all my goals for the year, done more 697 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:17,960 races for the year. I'd done enough mileage, 698 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,520 accumulated a bunch of niggles as you do. 699 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,200 And I was like, that's fine. After gob you I'm just going to 700 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,520 take it easy. Literally have like 3 or 4 weeks 701 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,440 of like basically no run in, maybe do a little bit of run 702 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,760 over Christmas and like get into some training in in January. 703 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,000 That was like my idea of the end of the year and that plan went 704 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,400 out the window and I was like, right, I better start training. 705 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,760 And, you know, I've done, as I said, I've done a lot of 706 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:51,640 research over the years, you know, to understand what was 707 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,040 involved with the race. So I had a pretty good idea of 708 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,760 what the course was likely to be. 709 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,240 In actual fact, I was pleasantly surprised when I got to see the 710 00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:08,040 course map, how close what I had sketched was to the reality of 711 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,880 it, you know, having never actually seen, you know, the 712 00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,720 real course map was pretty close. 713 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,840 So I mean, I plan to, you know, more mileage, but a lot more 714 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,040 elevation is basically the, the, the short, short version of it. 715 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,560 I mean, I don't normally run much with poles. 716 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,080 So I do a lot more training with poles just because the steepness 717 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:40,160 of the train and the, the roughness of the train and a lot 718 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,720 of the claims the, the 15,000 feet per loop. 719 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:49,120 It's not like like a mega climb, like you're climbing Ben Nevis 720 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,680 from sea level. It's lots and lots of claims in 721 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,480 the like 1000 foot to 1500 foot range. 722 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,600 And so I'd identified, I mean, actual fact, Like I find a 723 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,560 really nice off trail section down in the back of Canoe Hill 724 00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:06,160 just in Perth, you know, basically going from the top of 725 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:11,360 Canoe Hill down to the to the a 90 and it's like it drops about 726 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,280 800 feet in about 1/4 of a mile. And the first time I went over 727 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,000 it, I was like, this is like suicidal because I mean, I do. 728 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:21,960 It's probably a bad choice of words actually, because people 729 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,440 do jump off the cliffs. That could help. 730 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:30,920 But. It does say how bad that is 731 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,880 then. Yeah, there's a, there's a gully 732 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:36,320 between the cliffs on canoe and you can get down it and it just 733 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:41,800 goes steeply, steeply down this slippery over leaf strewn 734 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,080 banking all the way down the A 90. 735 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,600 So I mean, I didn't do all my train hill training on stuff 736 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,880 like that, but I did do a fair amount of, you know, off trail 737 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,720 up and down through kind of overgrowing stuff. 738 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,560 And yeah, I don't remember offhand what the kind of numbers 739 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:06,080 I think I must have done about maybe about 60,000 feet or 740 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:11,440 something like that in January, which is, you know, as much as I 741 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,200 could have realistically fitted in. 742 00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:16,760 I think just with like family and other life commitments that 743 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,040 are going on and other people that have been public about what 744 00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:23,320 the how they've trained for Barclay in the past have done a 745 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,320 hell of a lot more than that. But you know you can only do 746 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,280 what you can do with the the time that you got. 747 00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:33,800 And the going on those off trails, does it help by like for 748 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,280 you? Getting there doesn't prepare 749 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,640 you. Do you feel no with hindsight? 750 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:43,600 I think it did. I mean, there wasn't like very 751 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:48,160 much about the race that like surprised me in terms of like, 752 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,440 you know, the the terrain was kind of pretty much what I 753 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:57,520 thought it was going to be. So, yeah, I mean, how much the 754 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,800 specific training I did helped me in the race, you know, it's 755 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,280 really hard to say. You know, maybe if I get a 756 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,680 chance to go back and and do some slightly different 757 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,160 training, maybe you might, might, might see how it is. 758 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,320 But yeah, I certainly felt like I was capable of moving well on 759 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,120 the terrain that the on the on the real racecourse. 760 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:19,600 So yeah, I think, I think it probably probably did set me up 761 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,760 pretty well. And you mentioned before about 762 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,040 hinting about briars and stuff like that. 763 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,960 What are briars and what would the Scottish equivalent be? 764 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,480 Yeah, so I mean an actual fact. I mean, people go on about the 765 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,840 the famous frozen head Stawbriars. 766 00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,560 They're actually like, they're not that bad. 767 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,600 Like they're not the worst thing you have to contend with on the 768 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,480 course. I mean, they're basically like 769 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,680 brambles. I like, if you think of like a, 770 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,720 you know, long thin stems with just little thorns on them, 771 00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:02,560 That's what they're like. I think I posted a photo in my, 772 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,480 in my race report of what my like, knees look like between 773 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,320 the top of my socks and the bottom of my shorts. 774 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:12,960 And people talk about you getting your, your rat bite from 775 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,440 the, from the race. And yeah, it's just, yeah, 776 00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,200 scrapes really. I mean, there's certainly, I 777 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:24,960 mean, I think they like the terrain generally. 778 00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,240 It's like, it's like old deciduous woodland. 779 00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:34,800 So like bits of bits of like like that I found around like 780 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,360 Canoe Hill, Moncrief Hill near me are actually pretty good 781 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,800 analogues to that. You know, most, most of Scottish 782 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,440 forestry land is like, it's called, you know, planted 783 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,640 conifer, like Forestry Commission planted plantations. 784 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,440 And it's not like that at all. You know, they're much denser 785 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,640 and you have pine needles on the floor, whereas this is just like 786 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,480 the terrain is. The trees are more widely 787 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,240 spaced, but it's just loose air with loose leaves on the top. 788 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,440 And then in bits around the course, you'll find these 789 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,040 patches of briars. And sometimes you can get around 790 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,560 them. Sometimes there's not really any 791 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:14,360 sensible diversion. You just got bashed through 792 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,240 them. And I know that you wear a 793 00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:20,600 certain brand of shoe all the time. 794 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,480 Were you wearing them and were they suitable? 795 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,280 Yeah. And so I was in my favoured 796 00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:33,160 Salomon sense ride 5, which I was very pleased to find out 797 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,640 that in actual fact Jared Campbell, as I said, the the the 798 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,000 goats of Barclay. So I think he used to be 799 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,880 sponsored by Last Portiva and he was saying on a podcast, since 800 00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,200 he was no longer might have been last Portiva anyways, one of the 801 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:50,360 one of the brands he he's now running in these exact same 802 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:53,720 shoes. I was like, yes, and I know that 803 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:58,800 they were absolutely fine. I mean, you know, you're sliding 804 00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,960 around on that. It's the kind of like slippy mud 805 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,640 and slippy leaves. If even if you had like someone 806 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,880 with a bit more tread than than what I've got, you're still just 807 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,680 gripping at the top layer and then the the top layer will 808 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:15,640 slide from the bottom layer of the ground and you're still 809 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,240 going to slip anyways. So that's always been my kind of 810 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,280 kind of view of them. And yeah, they worked out really 811 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,240 well for me on the race. And we spoke about the leaked 812 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:29,560 photo earlier on. It was one of the few that the 813 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,680 public did get to see. Were you surprised when you did 814 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:38,160 come back to reality, how quickly people had thought they 815 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:43,480 had worked out it was you? I, I saw the, the, the, you 816 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,800 know, all this Facebook threads and stuff of people trying to 817 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,680 identify me. I mean, in, in hindsight, it was 818 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,800 kind of hard to see how quickly it happened. 819 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:54,360 I didn't really know. I just found the whole thing 820 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,200 really hilarious that, you know, there'd been this like, mad 821 00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,960 speculation going on. I'd had absolutely no idea about 822 00:49:59,960 --> 00:50:02,320 it all. So, yeah, it's pretty, pretty 823 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:04,400 funny. But I mean, I don't know if you 824 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,320 guys know like like like how long did it take for someone 825 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:12,520 actually dropped my name from the when when the race started? 826 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,960 For me, the first, it was before the race start, it was when you 827 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,720 were standing at the temporary yellow gate. 828 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:20,720 It was that picture. It came out straight away. 829 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:23,800 Right. And then and then what literally 830 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,520 like within minutes somebody went. 831 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,200 That's Ian. Was it that? 832 00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:32,360 Yeah, as soon as the photo came out, that was people were 100% 833 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,120 sure it was you. OK, that's interesting because I 834 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,360 and also like, I mean, I, I don't think there was, I think 835 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,320 they did do a very good job of keeping the start date on the 836 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,120 wraps. And because it was so early, I 837 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,040 don't think many of the people who'd normally be looking for 838 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,280 people who are like, you know, these people are tapering for 839 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,160 something and we think think they're doing the Barclay. 840 00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:57,320 There wasn't really much of that and so so I'm quite, quite 841 00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,160 surprised how quickly people did jump on it. 842 00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:05,320 Yeah, I, I saw a post somewhere, somebody mentioned about the 843 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,120 start. It was probably about four days 844 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,080 beforehand and I think it was on Reddit or something like that. 845 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,080 And somebody came back going, no, you're a month early. 846 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:18,800 And then the the thread was just silenced at that point and I 847 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,120 didn't think anything more of it. 848 00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,160 It wasn't until the actual race start that I knew it was 849 00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:24,920 started. Yeah. 850 00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:26,960 And so it was a 6:00 AM start local time. 851 00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,320 So that was like 11:00 UK time. So yeah, everybody was awake. 852 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,280 At least it wasn't like you're, you know, if it started at like 853 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,320 the middle of the night UK time, that'd be a different story. 854 00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,880 We were all on more runs at that point. 855 00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,200 I was certainly on. I was on the West Highland Way 856 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,880 when I got the texture and I went no way. 857 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:51,240 That's really funny. I'm going to ask as well. 858 00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:53,520 This is about another side question that's not been wrote 859 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,040 down. How did that feel for you being 860 00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,600 in a bubble with no tech or anything like that? 861 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,320 Because obviously, especially for Julie, she'll have been just 862 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,280 say don't watch it if she can come and visit you. 863 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:11,280 And Julie does an amazing report, which we briefly spoke 864 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,520 about before we started recording on your Facebook page. 865 00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:20,960 It's a really good read. But it's it can't be like any 866 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,400 other race you've ever done. So the point? 867 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:26,640 You've got no tech at all apart from this watch and your head 868 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,280 torch. Yeah, I think it was really hard 869 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,480 for her, like not knowing what was going on. 870 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,080 And as I said, you know, we were given very strict instructions 871 00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,800 not to really say anything during the race. 872 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,680 I mean, even like the, there was a few official sanctioned media 873 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,840 people who were there and I think one of them put out a post 874 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:49,040 that said like shortly after the the race started and it was 875 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,680 officially announced by Keith, he put a post going, I'm a 876 00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,720 photographer at the race. I won't post anything else until 877 00:52:55,720 --> 00:52:57,880 afterwards. So like there was really was 878 00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:59,520 like a like information blackout. 879 00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,040 So I think it was quite hard for people that, you know, that knew 880 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,560 I was there and we're wanting updates. 881 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,320 For me, it was great. I mean, like part of the appeal 882 00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:14,240 with Barclays that is it's it's low tech, it's old fashioned. 883 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:20,600 You know, you're out there by yourself solo, you know, not 884 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,160 relying on anything except, you know, your own skills, your your 885 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,960 navigation and your cut off in the world. 886 00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:33,080 And even in, I mean, maybe if you're, I mean, I, I'd like a 887 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,560 prepaid T-Mobile SIM for over in the US, but I didn't get signal 888 00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,920 in the camp. I guess some people probably had 889 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,280 some phone signal in the camp. But for me it was basically like 890 00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,960 apart from, you know, nipping down to the visitor center to 891 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,920 get Wi-Fi and send messages home to say, you know, I was there, I 892 00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:52,400 was checked in all that kind of stuff. 893 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:54,800 We really were in a little bubble. 894 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,160 You're with a bunch of like minded people. 895 00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,600 I mean, that's like, I think for most of us, one of the reasons 896 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:04,640 like why we like running ultras is the community and you bring 897 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:08,800 together a bunch of people to go and do like a, you know, an epic 898 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,280 race for everybody that's there at the Barclay. 899 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,000 They've wanted to be at the Barclay for, for, for years 900 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:15,600 probably. It's a big deal. 901 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,160 Everybody's really excited and everybody's on the same page. 902 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,080 It's just a great bunch of people hang out with for a few 903 00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:24,120 days. So yeah, if you were like 904 00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,960 halfway around the loop, the furthest away point from the the 905 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,240 campsite, and something happened, you weren't with 906 00:54:30,240 --> 00:54:34,600 anybody else, is there any way of communicating back that 907 00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:35,880 there's something wrong? Nope. 908 00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:45,400 Absolutely nothing and a couple. So I think Matthew Blanchard, 909 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,840 who's one of the French runners who I think we, he was out on 910 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,840 loop 3 but didn't finish his 3rd loop. 911 00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:54,680 And you know, he mentioned that it was part of his thinking that 912 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,600 you're starting to get cold and borderline hypothermic. 913 00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:02,520 And he was like, you know, if I'd had, if I knew there was 914 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,560 AGPS tracker on me and maybe we would have taken more risk. 915 00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,400 But you know, with nobody know where you are, you had to make 916 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,560 the call to come home for safety and you'd bail out off the 917 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:16,640 course. There have been people, I think 918 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,360 the record's slowest. I think there's a guy quite a 919 00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:25,000 few years ago now who only completed two books. 920 00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,360 So the books of the checkpoints that you go around there, you 921 00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:31,000 can play 2 books that it took him like 30 plus hours. 922 00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:37,600 But I believe it's true to say there's never been a search and 923 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,440 rescue operation. I think they've been close to it 924 00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:46,520 at times, and I think there's been a few times where they have 925 00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,600 sent rotteners out to look at the books. 926 00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:52,440 So I didn't say this in the description, but basically as 927 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:54,800 you go around the course, you get to these. 928 00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:56,520 You find these books in the woods. 929 00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,960 They're basically unmanned checkpoints and you tear out a 930 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,000 page that corresponds to your bib number. 931 00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,800 So if they're wanting to find out where someone is on the 932 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,880 course, they can send routes out to the books and look to see 933 00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,920 whether your page is gone. So I think in the past they have 934 00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:15,520 done that. And in actual fact, there was a 935 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,720 guy this year who took, I'm going to say it was over 30 936 00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:21,880 hours I think to complete loop one. 937 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,560 Yeah, it was really quite a long time. 938 00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,920 But they weren't worried about him for a couple of reasons. 939 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:35,920 One was that that he'd been seen by other runners and he'd been 940 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,200 seen on the course. So they knew he wasn't lost or 941 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:43,840 not badly lost. He was making progress and then 942 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:46,760 when the runners, I think even the Loop 3 runners started going 943 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,960 out the other way, I think some of them passed them. 944 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:54,960 So although he was long overdue, like the race organizers were 945 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:59,880 pretty confident he was a still moving, not injured and roughly 946 00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,760 on the right course. So they were like, no, we'll 947 00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:06,640 just wait for him to come back. I mean, I guess at some point 948 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:10,840 that, you know, some, I think in the past, like once it gets to 949 00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,280 start 30 plus hours and, you know, they, they, they might 950 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:18,480 think about trying to work out what's happened to somebody. 951 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:22,440 But yeah, they, they very much major on the, you know, in the 952 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,360 whole history of the race, nobody has had to be rescued. 953 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:27,920 Your first rule is you will self extract. 954 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:32,360 There's been people that have dislocated shoulders, broken 955 00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:39,280 ankles, you know, people that have been so lost their mind 956 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,120 because they're so tired or whatever that they've wandered 957 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,440 into nearby towns and been picked up by the police, you 958 00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,800 know, but but people have always got back. 959 00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,760 And that's the number one rule. You, you, you lay on you 960 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,240 heavily. You don't want to be the first 961 00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:57,480 person that has to be rescued. So that that's that's definitely 962 00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,520 in your mind. This may be the first no comment 963 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,760 question that came into my mind, but do you all have to sign 964 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:08,280 waivers to say you've understood that and as you yourself 965 00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,840 extracting and you're going into this knowing the risk? 966 00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,760 Yeah, it's part of the application process. 967 00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:19,520 You have to sign a waiver that indemnifies both the race 968 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,160 organisers and the Park Authority, then that you're 969 00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:23,640 doing the whole event at your own risk. 970 00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,560 Yeah. And. 971 00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,360 But I still had a ITRA trail run in travel insurance policy. 972 00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,560 Whether that or got me anything if I had to be helicoptered, I 973 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:38,800 don't know. But I, you know, I mean, we all 974 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:40,760 know that the American healthcare system is a thing 975 00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,360 that requires a credit card to access. 976 00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,560 So I wasn't going to do something like this without 977 00:58:44,640 --> 00:58:47,280 having a healthy travel insurance policy behind me. 978 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:52,120 Did you take your credit card on the loop with you? 979 00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,840 I did not. So I was just thinking if you 980 00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:00,600 had injured yourself, you managed to get on. 981 00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:04,160 There is a road that goes around the side of the State Park that 982 00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,120 is the shortcut back to the base, which is, is it Quitters 983 00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:09,320 road or something like that? It's called. 984 00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:15,600 If you had to, we'd been able to would you just hitched a ride 985 00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:20,680 back to the start or what? Yeah, so I mean, so quit 986 00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,800 Quitters Rd. Is that so? 987 00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:25,840 It's some quite interesting sort of terminology. 988 00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,840 I mean, Quitters Rd. is very, it is not a tarmac Rd. 989 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:34,520 It's like a like a Jeep track. It's a pretty ropy, to be 990 00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,920 honest. I mean, there are like there's 991 00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:43,560 a, there's a highway, like a proper tarmac road to the kind 992 00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,720 of southeast of the park that some people have come out onto 993 00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,120 in the past. But it's a hell of a long way 994 00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,520 around and and you'd have to hitch back for sure. 995 00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:57,160 But yeah, yeah, there's, there's plenty. 996 00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:00,520 You know, one of the things in yourself, if you spend any time, 997 01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,360 which everybody who goes through probably should spend lots of 998 01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,960 time looking at the map, you know how everything's 999 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,600 interconnected. As I said, the race is mostly 1000 01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:13,960 off trail, but it does intersect with the way marked park trails. 1001 01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:19,560 So it might take you several hours, but it should always be 1002 01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:21,440 possible for you to find your way back. 1003 01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,480 And if you think about it, you know, if the course is 20 miles 1004 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:31,240 or 20 something miles roughly as a circle, you know, you just do 1005 01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:33,080 the maths. You're probably never more than 1006 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,840 5 or 6 miles away from where you started. 1007 01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:41,640 You may have a massive hill in the way, but you know, it's self 1008 01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:45,920 extraction is possible. And that's one of the, you know, 1009 01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,200 people are are often tempted to go down Quitters Rd. when maybe 1010 01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,720 they don't need to. Yeah. 1011 01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:58,880 Do you think that's the sort of people know it's there? 1012 01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:03,280 Is that why they tell you it's it's quitters Rd. you can quit 1013 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,400 to? You're almost given the option. 1014 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:09,400 I think it even says in a couple of places in the course 1015 01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,000 instructions. It's like if you just turn left 1016 01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,360 here, 2 miles and you'd be back in camp. 1017 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:18,080 So there you are again. That's last. 1018 01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:20,560 Just just just drink feeding, you know? 1019 01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,240 But like, like in the backyard, here you can just quit and all 1020 01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:29,160 the suffering stops. And talking about the navigation 1021 01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:33,280 and how hard does it, is it, I would imagine you've obviously 1022 01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:37,960 got a basic knowledge of NAV and compasses and maps. 1023 01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:41,840 Is it just the same in America as as in the UK and how? 1024 01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:47,160 What's that side of it like? I would say that the things that 1025 01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,040 make the, I mean, the navigation is really hard. 1026 01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,720 I mean, it's what I mean like clearly that, you know, the 1027 01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:56,800 amount of elevation is hard. The fact that you're, you've got 1028 01:01:56,800 --> 01:01:58,440 no navigation lanes makes it hard. 1029 01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:03,360 But I think the thing that makes it most difficult to navigate is 1030 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,680 it just all looks the same. So like if you're used to 1031 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:12,080 navigating on Scottish hills, generally speaking, once you're 1032 01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:16,000 above, you know, the tree line or 1500 feet or a bit higher, 1033 01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:20,240 maybe there's, it's all bare and you can see a long way. 1034 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,080 So you can work out what you're looking at, which direction 1035 01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:24,400 you're going in. If you're trying to follow a 1036 01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,400 Ridge, you can see where that Ridge goes. 1037 01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,760 At Berkeley, everything is forested. 1038 01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,440 So it's forested right up to the tops of the mountains. 1039 01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:38,920 And you rarely can you see more than even it. 1040 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:44,320 Even in daylight, you can barely see more than, I don't know, to 1041 01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,440 300 meters. You're just just looking into 1042 01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,360 forest the whole time. So if you're like at the top of 1043 01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:51,960 a, you know, somewhere you've maybe got a couple of ridges 1044 01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,280 that are coming off and you're like, which one am I going on? 1045 01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,640 You need to use a, use a compass bearing there to work out which 1046 01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:01,680 one to go in because everything looks the same. 1047 01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:05,280 Or like, you know, if you're following a Ridge and it starts 1048 01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,400 to veer one way or veer the other way, or maybe it's split, 1049 01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:12,920 you know, there's nothing that you can see in the distance. 1050 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:15,680 It says, oh, I'm aiming for that thing that's, you know, my next, 1051 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,480 my next checkpoint, my next book is maybe half a mile away. 1052 01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,720 But I know it's in that direction because I can see that 1053 01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,800 hill that it's on you, you really can't see very far. 1054 01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:30,240 So it makes it quite difficult to like, like you can quite 1055 01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,160 easily make small errors that then compound because you can't 1056 01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:38,880 see that you've gone wrong. And so I think that's the 1057 01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:43,760 navigation was it was really tricky and I think I would say 1058 01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,120 by about halfway around the course, I think I've learned a 1059 01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:48,160 lot about how to navigate in that terrain. 1060 01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:50,720 But by that time, of course, it's kind of too late Do. 1061 01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,640 You feel it's helped your navigation then for this 1062 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:58,960 country. I think they're kind. 1063 01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:02,280 I mean, like, as long as you can do the basics of like know how 1064 01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:06,040 to use a compass, you know, how to take a bearing off a map, 1065 01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:10,000 know how to take a bearing off an object that you can see if 1066 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:12,320 you can do those things. Those are the same skills that 1067 01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:16,160 transfer across both. But the, you know, the, the, the 1068 01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,360 wayfinding I would say is, is a very different skill. 1069 01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:24,600 And, and particularly like using the instructions that they give 1070 01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:28,720 for the course is quite, it's clearly quite course specific. 1071 01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,160 And they, they do make sense in their own way. 1072 01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,520 But so one of the things that I'll give you give you a few 1073 01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:42,120 kind of examples of it. So the problem is you're in a 1074 01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,360 forest, You're always surrounded by trees, you're always 1075 01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,560 surrounded by rocks and you're always surrounded by streams, or 1076 01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:52,080 as they, they call them creeks. So like the course instructions 1077 01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:57,360 might say all this Ridge and you'll find yourself at the 1078 01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:00,840 confluence of two streams to the east of those there are four 1079 01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:03,120 rocks. And under those rocks is the 1080 01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:06,800 book, right? So you're in a forest that's 1081 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:09,480 full of rocks and streams and trees. 1082 01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,320 So in actual fact, and some of the features are very specific. 1083 01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:16,760 So there's one part which it's been on the course many, many 1084 01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,640 years, and you have to climb up a Ridge. 1085 01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,840 You hit the top of the hill and there's some some capstones, 1086 01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,040 some big, big rocks on the top of the hill. 1087 01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,440 And there's a natural arch. It's called the Eye of the 1088 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:30,400 Needle. So you climb up this. 1089 01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:33,640 Then there's part of course, at this point I was actually solo. 1090 01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:38,000 I climbed up this, this Ridge here at the top of the hill, 1091 01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,720 there was some capstones. I found a hole through the 1092 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:42,880 capstones. I crawled through it. 1093 01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:46,120 No book in it. I'm like, right. 1094 01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:50,760 So, so you can, you can very easily convince yourself you're 1095 01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,840 in a place that matches the description when actual factors 1096 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,120 about 1/4 of a mile away from the actual eye of the needle. 1097 01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:01,680 And so I, I searched around on this particular hill with some 1098 01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:05,560 particular capstones for about half an hour, you know, went up 1099 01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:10,360 and down the Ridge and, you know, I believe that the, I 1100 01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,640 figure should be at the North End of the hill where I hit this 1101 01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:17,440 little tunnel of between the rocks was at the North End of 1102 01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,960 the hill. Everything looked correct, but I 1103 01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,200 was, but I climbed the wrong Ridge. 1104 01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:27,360 So I probably, I was about maybe like I maybe been 10° off on the 1105 01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:31,120 bearing at the bottom of the hill, ended up quarter of a mile 1106 01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,440 away at the top in a bunch of stuff that looked exactly like 1107 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,320 it should. And it took me like half an hour 1108 01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:39,200 to figure out I was in the wrong place. 1109 01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:43,000 By the time I then got back, you know, quarter of a mile along a 1110 01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:47,080 Ridge probably took me 10 minutes or something, found it 1111 01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:49,560 and I was back on course again. But it's, that just kind of 1112 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,760 illustrates how the navigation is tricky. 1113 01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,800 And it's really like the instructions describe the route 1114 01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,480 really well if you're on it, but they don't make it. 1115 01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:04,720 They don't describe it in a way it's easy to get back onto it. 1116 01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:09,080 And I guess that's the, yeah, you can make mistakes quite 1117 01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,440 easily. I mean, John Kelly, you know, 1118 01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,480 he's talked about his lot. Everybody makes mistakes. 1119 01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,880 He makes mistakes. But the really good runners and 1120 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,040 the really experienced runners, they learn to correct mistakes 1121 01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:21,680 while they're just little mistakes. 1122 01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:26,000 And and I, I certainly made a few pretty big ones, so. 1123 01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,720 You've not sold it to me, and that does not sound fun. 1124 01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,480 But that's the fun of it. Is that like Oh. 1125 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:38,040 No, I would be raging if. I get me wrong. 1126 01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:41,120 And you're like half an hour to find a book. 1127 01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,640 I'd be like no sack that and I would throw a hissy fat and go 1128 01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,880 back to camp. Yeah, but but, but that's that's 1129 01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,360 that's what makes it fun, right? It's it's like, you know, 1130 01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:52,240 nothing. No one. 1131 01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:53,960 Yeah, there's no thought on my watch. 1132 01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,280 I can follow, you know, it's just, I've just got to figure 1133 01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,160 out, you know, I'm in a bunch of woods. 1134 01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:02,600 Nobody knows where I am. I'm probably 2 hours from camp. 1135 01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:07,040 I've got to sort the problem And that, you know, and I mean, 1136 01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:09,360 you're right, it's probably not for everybody. 1137 01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,080 And, and you know, some people will go, why the heck would you 1138 01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,920 want to do that? And you know, it's not, it's not 1139 01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:17,160 for everybody, I guess. And that's not being exclusive. 1140 01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,240 It's just like it's not fun for everybody. 1141 01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:24,399 No, I've been terrified by a bear or something like that. 1142 01:08:24,399 --> 01:08:27,920 I mean, that's the, that's the wildlife on the course as well. 1143 01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:32,720 There is, so I didn't come across. 1144 01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:36,279 I think I got a pretty good sampling of most of the 1145 01:08:36,279 --> 01:08:39,200 experiences that you should have at Barclay, but meeting the 1146 01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:43,359 feral hogs which are on the loose in the park, I did not 1147 01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:46,880 find any of them. I saw a few signs warning them 1148 01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:51,520 and it's not actually on the course, but on the, on the one 1149 01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,080 of the park trails where I was wrecking a couple of days 1150 01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:57,359 before, there was like a big hog trap. 1151 01:08:57,359 --> 01:09:00,080 So it's like a big fence with like a, a gate. 1152 01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:02,399 It's got a sensor on it. The hog goes in and it drops the 1153 01:09:02,399 --> 01:09:04,520 gate. And partly they're actually like 1154 01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,200 a, they're basically an invasive species and they're breeding 1155 01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:09,600 like mad. And so then they've got like 1156 01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:11,600 open season for you people to shoot them and stuff. 1157 01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:16,600 But some of the runners, and I can't remember whose race report 1158 01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:21,240 I read it in, but quite near 1 of the books which which I, I 1159 01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,680 was at at one point and they went into a little cave in the 1160 01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:28,960 night and they found like a dozen of these wild hogs in this 1161 01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,680 cave. And they're like what? 1162 01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:33,640 Right. We'll just, we'll just back off. 1163 01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,000 But yeah, apparently they can be quite aggressive and stuff. 1164 01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,279 So, yeah, they're the main hazard. 1165 01:09:40,399 --> 01:09:41,960 I don't know if they get bears there. 1166 01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:46,080 I don't think they do. But like them in the campsite, 1167 01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:50,279 like they like the the waste bins in the campsite, they're 1168 01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:53,479 like, like bear proof bins. So like, you know, there's a 1169 01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,280 little patch that you have to open to get into them. 1170 01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:58,080 And they do say like if you're camping. 1171 01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:02,840 And so there's like wild, wild camping spots that you can use 1172 01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:06,280 and like, if you're just like a tourist in the park and they say 1173 01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,400 like, you know, keep your food off the ground and stuff like 1174 01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:10,960 that. So I guess then I think it's 1175 01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:15,800 mainly the these, these wild and wild boar type things and 1176 01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,720 they're the, the, the feral hogs. 1177 01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:27,280 One of the sort of folklore keywords, whatever you want to 1178 01:10:27,280 --> 01:10:30,360 call it, about the race is the human sacrifice. 1179 01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:32,760 Yeah. Could you tell us what the human 1180 01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,080 sacrifice is? And the question from the 1181 01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:37,520 listener was, who was it this year? 1182 01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:43,280 Yeah, so, so everybody in the starting field of 40 gets a gets 1183 01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:45,240 a bib number. As I said, you have to pull out 1184 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:46,640 the page that match your bib number. 1185 01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:51,040 So and because of course pages have numbers on both sides, the 1186 01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:55,760 numbers are only odd. So you know, so I was bib #3. 1187 01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:04,760 Bib #1 is normally called the the human sacrifice and they are 1188 01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,680 generally speaking, I think well, as I said, he normally 1189 01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,800 allocates that bit somebody that he says has absolutely no 1190 01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,160 business being at the race. So, but that that doesn't mean 1191 01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:16,960 they're like not a good runner in their own right. 1192 01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:22,560 So I think there was a year like maybe like 10 years ago that 1193 01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:26,400 they had Mike Wardian, you know, like really fast ultra runner. 1194 01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:31,080 I, I could be wrong, but I think he was given the human sacrifice 1195 01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:34,920 bed because like, as like, you know, you need more skills than 1196 01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:37,080 just being fast to be good at the Barclay. 1197 01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:41,520 So, yeah, so, so, so the human sacrifice is kind of, again, 1198 01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:44,600 it's just a psychological warfare between lads and the 1199 01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:47,160 runners. So he gives the the big #1 to 1200 01:11:47,160 --> 01:11:51,080 somebody. I can see who it was because, 1201 01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:55,840 you know, she posted publicly about who, who, who she was that 1202 01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:58,000 they call it. And there's a woman called them 1203 01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:01,360 called Kelly. And actually I had a better chat 1204 01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:04,760 with her before the race. Don't think I'm really caught 1205 01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:08,760 with her afterwards. But, and she was, she actually 1206 01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,720 got a very late call up. I think she had, I think she 1207 01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:14,680 said she was about 10 days before the race that she was 1208 01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:17,960 given a call up because somebody dropped out and she was at the 1209 01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:22,120 top of the waiting list and she turned up and she was given bib 1210 01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:24,240 #1. And I think she kind of wrote on 1211 01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,600 her Facebook page that, you know, it did kind of mess with 1212 01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:30,080 her a bit. You know, she was a bit, but she 1213 01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:35,760 took it as like, well, he thinks I'm the, you know, the one that 1214 01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:37,880 set up to fail. I'm going to prove him wrong 1215 01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:41,040 that that's the way she kind of dealt with it. 1216 01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:43,440 And did she make it round one loop? 1217 01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,600 I believe she did part of the loop and then came back to camp, 1218 01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,520 so I don't believe she completed the full loop. 1219 01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:57,240 So maybe Carl or Laz, whoever said that she was a human 1220 01:12:57,240 --> 01:12:59,200 sacrifice, maybe they felt justified. 1221 01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:04,160 Yeah, I guess so. But yeah, I mean, I don't think 1222 01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:08,440 they apart from bib #1 I don't think they seed the other bibs. 1223 01:13:08,440 --> 01:13:12,040 So I'm not reading anything at the fact that I was #3. 1224 01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:18,040 As you tell yourself, anyway. Yeah, yeah, but John Kelly was 1225 01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:25,600 #11 Damian was #11 so yeah. Anyways, I'm telling myself 1226 01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:30,680 there's no CD. And you, did you get to talk to 1227 01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:33,960 Laz Gordon Camp? Did you talk to him about 1228 01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:38,320 backyard altars at all? I had a bit of chat with Las. 1229 01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:42,640 I personally didn't speak to him about backyarding very much. 1230 01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:48,760 Alan Parkin actually, I think he think he posted a video on his 1231 01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,240 Facebook last week or something after the race. 1232 01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:56,960 But you know, Las is doing a yard a day challenge, so he has 1233 01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:01,720 to do his walk his backyards 4.17 miles every day. 1234 01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:06,400 And so me and Alan, we ran into Lass while he was going up and 1235 01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:10,080 down the road doing his yard. And I'll interviewed him a bit 1236 01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,960 and it's quite funny because he knew who Alan was because back 1237 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:19,840 in the day he was Alan was the number seventh ranked backyarder 1238 01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:23,640 in the world about 10 years ago when backyards were just get 1239 01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:26,360 started and Laz remembered his name. 1240 01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,000 So there you go. Claims of fame. 1241 01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:32,320 Yeah, so we had a brief chat about that. 1242 01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,560 So this can be quite an open-ended question from a 1243 01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:39,520 listener. How amazing is it? 1244 01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:47,120 I mean like, obviously like the, you know, I could have done 1245 01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:50,400 better in terms of performance, you know, I'd hope to do better. 1246 01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:53,240 But in terms of the experience, you know, absolutely amazing. 1247 01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:58,720 You know, the whole thing from even just like a couple of days 1248 01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,840 before we had a chance to just, you know, recce on the public 1249 01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:05,360 trails in the park, like driving in past the frozen Head State 1250 01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:07,600 Park sign going into the visitor center. 1251 01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:11,080 Like it's like massive like fanboy experience. 1252 01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:14,640 You know, it just I don't have the grin off my face for days. 1253 01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:20,240 And I said this to various people, you know, at their race. 1254 01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,720 And, you know, the entire time we were out there on the course 1255 01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,560 was like, it was, you know, it was clearly, it was hard, don't 1256 01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:29,480 get me wrong. And, you know, getting your legs 1257 01:15:29,480 --> 01:15:32,680 cut by briars, falling on your backside, all this good stuff, 1258 01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,560 getting lost. But it was like, genuinely Type 1259 01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:37,280 1 fun. Like I was doing the whole thing 1260 01:15:37,280 --> 01:15:42,360 with a massive smile on my face. And like, even if I never got 1261 01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,520 the chance to go back again, like I'm just really, really 1262 01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,800 happy I got a chance to go. So yeah, amazing. 1263 01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:52,000 Like bucket list life experience stuff. 1264 01:15:54,240 --> 01:15:58,320 And you, you mentioned that you were bib #3, so you had to 1265 01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:08,600 collect pages 3 and 4. I'm guessing each lap that you 1266 01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:12,960 do, you would have got a new number, but for lap one that you 1267 01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:18,040 did, you are big #3. Have you kept all your pages and 1268 01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:19,640 what are you intending and doing with them? 1269 01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:24,320 Yeah, I've got all my pages. They're there with my bib number 1270 01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:28,000 and a little plastic baggy. Still, I haven't quite decided 1271 01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:30,800 what I'll do with them. I mean, I had a few suggestions 1272 01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:32,720 from people and I've seen what other people have done, like 1273 01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:36,640 you're mounting them in a in a frame or, you know, obviously 1274 01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:40,520 I've got my map from this year as well, which it's my other 1275 01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:42,640 kind of memento alongside the pages. 1276 01:16:43,280 --> 01:16:45,880 So yeah, I'll probably do something, you know, get them on 1277 01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:48,800 the wall in some way, but I haven't quite finalized what I'm 1278 01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:52,040 going to do. And the books that you were 1279 01:16:52,440 --> 01:16:55,280 picking the pages from, Do you remember any of the names of the 1280 01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:59,880 books? Just a few of them in the books 1281 01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:04,040 again, they're always chosen to kind of yes, the psychological 1282 01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,400 warfare of last versus the the runners. 1283 01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:11,000 I think there was one that was called left behind. 1284 01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:17,920 There might have been one called someone like like No Way Out or 1285 01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:23,640 maybe like Into Darkness or these kind of, and I think the 1286 01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:26,520 last one was a movie called like Nearly there or something like 1287 01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:29,800 that. So yeah, but but you know, 1288 01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:32,280 they're there to kind of toy with the runners. 1289 01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:35,840 So, and like you'll probably know that like quite famously 1290 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:41,240 and I think it was 2017, Gary Robbins and the Canadian guy, he 1291 01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:45,800 completed the course, well illegally he didn't complete the 1292 01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:48,920 course, but anyways, he was 6 seconds over the 60 hour cut off 1293 01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:52,400 and the next year one of the book titles was called 6 1294 01:17:52,480 --> 01:17:57,880 seconds. Yeah, all right. 1295 01:17:58,480 --> 01:18:05,160 We've mentioned lots of times that you stopped on loop 1, but 1296 01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,240 what we haven't asked is what happened. 1297 01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:14,720 Yeah, so I mean, I'll give you a quick summary of of it really. 1298 01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:19,720 So it's actually incredibly frustrating because basically on 1299 01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:25,600 the the first, the first kind of claim, the way the course is 1300 01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,200 organized this year, about the first 3 miles of the course are 1301 01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:32,480 on trail. I mean, like the the park 1302 01:18:32,480 --> 01:18:36,880 trails, they're probably like, they're much more sketchy. 1303 01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,800 Like like if someone says, you know, running on a trail and you 1304 01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,440 think like the West Highland way or something like that, they're 1305 01:18:43,440 --> 01:18:47,080 not that good. But they are recognizable trails 1306 01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:48,960 and they are maintained to some extent. 1307 01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:53,720 But yeah, so the first like 3 miles is basically uphill with a 1308 01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,240 little bone hill in the middle of it and down to a Creek. 1309 01:18:56,240 --> 01:19:01,200 And then you go back up. So literally boosted up this 1310 01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:05,000 this claim and everybody goes off like, you know, bats that 1311 01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:08,760 hell at the beginning, like, like, I think mainly because 1312 01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:11,960 people don't want to get caught in a in a conga train as you go 1313 01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:15,640 up these this trail. And anyway, so my idea was, 1314 01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:20,080 well, the route to success at Barclay is to get around the 1st 1315 01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:21,760 loop with somebody that knows what they're doing. 1316 01:19:22,440 --> 01:19:25,520 So I was like, right, there's there's a bunch of experienced 1317 01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:28,360 people up in front, You know, John Kelly's there, Damian Halls 1318 01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:30,680 there, a bunch of the French guys are there. 1319 01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:36,200 And, and so we're running up this, this trail and it's, and 1320 01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:38,800 the, the kind of conga line, kind of basically there's like 1321 01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:41,400 15 or 20 people up at the front, the fast guys. 1322 01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:43,400 And then gradually it kind of thins out. 1323 01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:46,280 And I was just like hanging at the back of that group of 1520 1324 01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:49,320 people thinking this is fine. I'll just just hang on the back 1325 01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:50,880 of this group and they'll know what they're doing. 1326 01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:53,680 I'll follow them around, I'll learn the course and we'll see 1327 01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:58,120 how things go. And then basically on the at the 1328 01:19:58,120 --> 01:20:01,160 top of the first climb, so like maybe like a couple miles into 1329 01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:03,560 the race, something like that, It's like right, done the first 1330 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:05,720 climb. I should start getting food in. 1331 01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:08,920 So I go into the pocket, pull out banana, start eating the 1332 01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:12,240 banana, take my eyes off the trail for a second and just do a 1333 01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:15,960 massive ankle roll. And I was like, like literally 1334 01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,360 like, like have a like broken my ankle. 1335 01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:21,800 Like it's incredibly painful. And I was like hobbling for 1336 01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:26,040 about down to this next Creek for like 5-10 minutes. 1337 01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:28,200 I was like basically just hobbling along. 1338 01:20:29,360 --> 01:20:33,280 And of course that group of 15 just disappeared off in the 1339 01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:38,360 distance. And I mean, I don't know how 1340 01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:40,560 much it like actually slowed me down. 1341 01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:43,960 Like I mean, the ankle, I don't think, I don't think it was 1342 01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:45,240 broken. I think it was just sprained. 1343 01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:48,600 But you know, I did did the rest of the loop on it and it didn't 1344 01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:50,760 really feel like it slowed me down that much. 1345 01:20:51,080 --> 01:20:55,440 But for that like maybe 10510 minutes where I just couldn't 1346 01:20:55,440 --> 01:21:00,360 move on it and lost touch with the group, that was the kind of 1347 01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:03,120 thing that screwed me. And I was like, I just like, of 1348 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:06,880 all the rookie mistakes to make, like you prepare for this race 1349 01:21:06,880 --> 01:21:10,160 for years, you know, you've been waiting to do it and you fall 1350 01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:13,160 over and hurt yourself like an hour into the race. 1351 01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:17,280 It's so frustrating. But so basically I ended up 1352 01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:24,200 doing the first three books solo, which like from our 1353 01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:27,520 experience point of view, was super cool and super fun. 1354 01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,640 Like to be out there on the Barclays course by yourself, 1355 01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:36,320 navigating by yourself, you know, great experience as far as 1356 01:21:36,320 --> 01:21:39,640 race strategy goes. Talk disaster because that's 1357 01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:42,720 when I like, you know, made some navigational mistakes and stuff. 1358 01:21:44,360 --> 01:21:49,160 And then, yeah, I think on the 4th book, I arrived at the book 1359 01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:52,240 as a bunch of other people were in the area searching for it. 1360 01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:57,040 And we joined up and we, we found the book pretty quickly 1361 01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:00,680 after I joined of the book when I turned up and then another 1362 01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:05,000 person, another group of two came down as well as we all kind 1363 01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:06,560 of formed up as a bit of a group. 1364 01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:11,080 And we caught up with another guy later on in the course and 1365 01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:13,280 we kind of drifted in and out a little bit. 1366 01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:17,800 But basically we did the last 2/3 of the course as a group of 1367 01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:20,880 eight and more or less stuck together all the way. 1368 01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:26,800 And I would say probably I went yeah, 2/3 of the way around. 1369 01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,440 We kind of accepted as a group that we were going to be over 1370 01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:33,880 cut off. And you know, that was fine. 1371 01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:36,480 Again, you know, being realistic about it. 1372 01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:40,680 But we're all, you know, agreed that we were going to complete 1373 01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:44,520 the loop, you know, going to do all the books, make a complete 1374 01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:47,840 loop of it. And then in the end, we were 1375 01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,480 just over 17 hours to get around the loop. 1376 01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:58,240 So yeah, I mean, there was a few a few navigational errors that 1377 01:22:58,240 --> 01:22:59,560 we made while we're in the group. 1378 01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:04,560 But like being in a group is like a double edged sword, I 1379 01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:07,560 would say. I mean, in our group there was a 1380 01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:11,240 couple of people who are veterans, but they were not like 1381 01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,400 super experienced or one of them had done a couple of loops for 1382 01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:18,160 like 10 years ago. And a couple of others have done 1383 01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:20,760 partial loops in the past. So it wasn't like we had 1384 01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:23,240 anybody. It was like an absolute like 1385 01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:27,240 Oracle that knew everything. So it's more or less like we 1386 01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:31,760 were eight people figuring out and like trying to navigate by 1387 01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:35,080 committee. It does reduce your mistakes, 1388 01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:39,440 but it takes longer as well. And, and there was a point 1389 01:23:40,280 --> 01:23:42,880 midway around the loop where there was like me and two of the 1390 01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:46,560 other guys who are at that point, like feeling much 1391 01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:48,280 stronger. And we're doing a climb. 1392 01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:49,560 And we were getting away from the group. 1393 01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:51,840 And we were kind of like, should we push on? 1394 01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:53,240 Should we try and ditch the others? 1395 01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:56,880 It would be better for our race. And, you know, does it increase 1396 01:23:56,880 --> 01:23:58,400 our chances of completing the loop? 1397 01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:02,160 But in the end, like, we got to top the climb and we're looking 1398 01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:04,280 for the book for a bit. And the group formed up again. 1399 01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:09,280 And then it kind of never really, never really split up 1400 01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:14,240 much after that. So yeah, I mean, like I said, I 1401 01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:17,560 think in terms of like Barclay experiences, you know, I got to 1402 01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:21,480 do a bit of the loop by myself, got to do a bit of a loop in the 1403 01:24:21,480 --> 01:24:24,800 group, got to do a bit of the loop at night because we, yeah, 1404 01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,680 I mean, it started at 6:00 AM, so it was dark for the first 1405 01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:30,200 hour and then, you know, we finished about 11 O clock at 1406 01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:32,840 night for the last 3-4 hours we've been in darkness. 1407 01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:37,280 So, yeah, you know, ticked all the boxes of apart from meeting 1408 01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:40,680 the feral hogs, which I didn't. Yeah. 1409 01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:43,520 So that's pretty much the story of my race, I think. 1410 01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:47,560 Yeah, if I, if I hadn't fallen over and twisted my ankle, maybe 1411 01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,960 I'd have, maybe I'd have hung on with that faster group. 1412 01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:56,520 I mean, I would say I about 3/4 the way around my legs were 1413 01:24:56,520 --> 01:25:00,320 starting to give a bit. Like as I said, there was a 1414 01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:03,120 point where a few of us thought we could maybe push on a bit 1415 01:25:03,120 --> 01:25:04,520 faster than what the group was doing. 1416 01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:07,360 By the end, I was just happy to be going around with the group 1417 01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:09,720 and we were having a nice time, especially once we'd all like 1418 01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:11,640 accepted that we were going to be over cut off. 1419 01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:14,160 Like then all of a sudden everybody was a bit less 1420 01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:17,480 stressed and it was a bit more like chatty and everyone's 1421 01:25:17,480 --> 01:25:21,760 having a bit of a better time. So yeah, I think as you said, 1422 01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:24,040 the problem within the group, although. 1423 01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:29,880 The group can possibly make things easier and also if one 1424 01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:35,120 person's like strong minded enough they'll say we are doing 1425 01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:37,520 this and then the whole group makes the one mistake. 1426 01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:44,000 So it works both ways. But it sounds like you have had 1427 01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:48,240 the Barclay experience. You you got out of it what you 1428 01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:52,560 hoped for apart from you didn't get on to the next loop. 1429 01:25:52,720 --> 01:25:56,000 But yeah, as you say, it's a learning experience. 1430 01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:02,360 It's for a multi year project. And even if you did 5 loops, 1431 01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:05,640 it's still an ongoing project. Barclays still there. 1432 01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:11,360 You can still go back and I fully expect you to be applying 1433 01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:14,680 again. I definitely will be applying 1434 01:26:14,680 --> 01:26:16,120 again. I mean, there's absolutely no. 1435 01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:18,640 Guarantees about whether you'll, you'll get back in. 1436 01:26:18,640 --> 01:26:22,200 I mean, the, the, the process by which they select the entrance 1437 01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:25,640 is quite obscure. I mean, they have talked about 1438 01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:31,880 it a bit, but it has been said, you know, like, I mean, that was 1439 01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:34,440 also part of the reason why as a group, we're like, we will 1440 01:26:34,440 --> 01:26:38,960 complete the loop because people who make the effort to to, you 1441 01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:42,600 know, not give up are seen more favourably and are more likely 1442 01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,920 to, you know, if you do a couple of books and bail out, they're 1443 01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:47,800 probably never going to, you know, probably never going to 1444 01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,840 get a chance to come back. And, you know, obviously we were 1445 01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:52,640 all a bit slower than what they like. 1446 01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:57,400 But yeah, I think we showed that we were, you know, willing to, 1447 01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:00,920 you know, to, to, to get stuck in and, and figure it out and, 1448 01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:06,440 and get round. So has there ever that you know 1449 01:27:06,440 --> 01:27:08,520 of being a? Human sacrifice. 1450 01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:10,520 That wasn't their first time there. 1451 01:27:12,480 --> 01:27:15,760 Oh, I don't know. I don't know. 1452 01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:17,720 I would guess not, but I don't know. 1453 01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:24,240 Yeah, it's a strange one. Because then you'd have to, 1454 01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:28,480 like, they would have had to let you in twice when they thought 1455 01:27:28,480 --> 01:27:29,840 that you weren't supposed to be there. 1456 01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:34,560 But yeah, I mean, there are people who get to come so. 1457 01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:41,200 Lazar said that, you know, so the, the, the park area is like 1458 01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:45,200 AI can't remember what the name like like a nature reserve 1459 01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:46,720 basically. So it'd be like in in the UK, 1460 01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:49,720 it'd be like a, a site of special scientific interest, 1461 01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:54,120 like a protected area. So like the race, like the, the 1462 01:27:54,120 --> 01:27:56,760 normal park rules are you can't go off the trails. 1463 01:27:56,760 --> 01:28:00,200 You stay on the trails, you know, it's a, it's a nature area 1464 01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,600 and the race gets given special permission to go off trail. 1465 01:28:04,480 --> 01:28:08,200 And so they, they, they really try to minimise impact that the 1466 01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:11,200 race has on the environment. And one of the, the ways they do 1467 01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:13,360 that is that Lass picks the field. 1468 01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:16,800 So he doesn't pick 40 people that he believes a chance of 1469 01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:19,720 doing 5 loops. He picks people that he thinks 1470 01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:21,720 are only going to do one or less than one. 1471 01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:26,840 So that on average, his aim is to get, I, I think he said 1472 01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:32,120 around like maybe a maximum of 80 loops done like in, in 1473 01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:34,280 aggregate over the whole field in a year. 1474 01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:37,120 And so, so there definitely are people that he will pick. 1475 01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:41,760 He doesn't necessarily invite you back because you're really, 1476 01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:43,280 really good and they're going to do well. 1477 01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:46,280 He you might be there being one of the people that he thinks is 1478 01:28:46,280 --> 01:28:47,960 going to do 1 loop and that's fine. 1479 01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:53,440 And there are some like, so for example, like Frozen Ed, you 1480 01:28:53,440 --> 01:28:56,280 know, who was the first finisher of the like 50 Miller back in 1481 01:28:56,280 --> 01:28:58,680 the 80s. He wasn't there this year, but 1482 01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:00,840 he run, he's run almost every year. 1483 01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:03,680 Like I'd say he's probably run it like 25 or 30 times. 1484 01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:05,880 And he's now I don't quite hold this. 1485 01:29:05,880 --> 01:29:08,000 I think he's probably about 70, something like that. 1486 01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:12,800 So I think he can, he doesn't really have a, you know, have 1487 01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:15,600 the ability anymore, You know, although he was a really good 1488 01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:18,480 ultra runner in his day, he doesn't have the physical 1489 01:29:18,480 --> 01:29:20,760 ability to get round one loop in the time limit. 1490 01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:23,920 So I mean, I don't think Lance would ever invite him back and 1491 01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:27,680 give him #1 bib. But like there clearly are 1492 01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:32,480 people that he does invite back, not expecting them to do well. 1493 01:29:32,480 --> 01:29:36,680 So maybe it has happened. I don't know, right. 1494 01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:40,040 I I think that's the end of the listener questions and. 1495 01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:45,720 That's the end of my questions. I Nick Nick is quiet for a 1496 01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:48,440 change, so I'm I'm assuming that she's got no questions left. 1497 01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,120 No more from me. Exciting. 1498 01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:54,560 Thrilling. I don't know how. 1499 01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:58,960 To explain, Barclay, I'm not sure that I'll be applying or 1500 01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:04,560 trying to find out how to apply, but good luck to anybody that 1501 01:30:05,480 --> 01:30:07,880 wants to find out. And don't go asking Ian because 1502 01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:13,640 he won't tell you. And for for tonight, it's 1503 01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:16,280 goodbye for me. Thank you Nikki for being Nikki. 1504 01:30:16,280 --> 01:30:19,560 Thank you Ian for coming on. It's a nice thing. 1505 01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:21,880 Thanks for coming on for having us guys. 1506 01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:23,000 Yeah. No, it's great. 1507 01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:24,320 Great. Chat hope people have. 1508 01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:27,360 Enjoyed it, find it interesting. Fantastic experience. 1509 01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:29,400 Totally recommend it if it's your bag. 1510 01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:33,000 If not, you can. You can listen and watch and be 1511 01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:33,920 glad you're not doing it.