Hello and welcome to another episode of Run Till You're Done.
This week's guest is not only a runner, but the founder of Blast
Running Events. She is one of the most
supportive members of the Scottish running community and
beyond, and we couldn't be happier to have her on the show
today. So welcome to the show, Kat
Bruce. Hello.
Thanks for having me on. Thank you.
And we'll get straight in and
start how we always start. The question we ask everybody is
how did you first get into running I?
Didn't first get into running so I I ran at high school.
I was one of the weird kids that liked cross country even at that
age. So I did 8 hundreds in cross
country for school. I can't say I loved it, but I
loved it more than other people and went off to university in
Glasgow and I didn't really run there but I was the part of this
Strathclyde university's first ever female rugby squad.
So we did quite a bit of fitness with that and I really so just
I've just always enjoyed being fit as I suppose.
Graduated in 2000, moved down to London and joined the gym
actually and kind of gave up running for a wee bit.
But London can get really hot in summer and I do remember 1
summer just thinking why am I going to the gym to run on
treadmill, just get get outside again.
So I started running again and in 2002 a place came up at the
last minute for the Great North Run I So I ran as Julie Backley,
Steve Backley, Chapmosaurus sister and I don't it was so
2002. It's before Strava, it's before
Garmin's, even before probably online results.
I have no idea how we did, but I kind of got the bug I and just,
yeah, I've just pretty much run since then.
So I joined running club and that got me into 5 case, 10 case
halves marathons and just, yeah, been along that lovely little
trail, you know, the little ladder that you go on and just
did that for the next few years. So yeah, I've just, I feel like
I've just always run. I've just always enjoyed it.
I don't think we've had anybody on that's played rugby before or
they they might have not meant to.
Be taking it. I think that's even that's being
a bit. If my husband could hear me, I
didn't really play. I, I, I love the training.
We did one, we trained all year and we did one tournament at the
end of the university year at Stirling.
And I've never been as frightened in my life.
I'm 5 foot two, I may about 8 and a bit of stone.
And there were girls and other squads that literally had tape
around the foreheads. They had the black, you know,
the black kid. I don't want to put up a black
makeup on their face. And I think 1 thigh was bigger
than my whole torso. I was, I was, I don't even think
I touched the ball. So when you say play rugby, I
was on the squad. I was on the squad.
Let me rephrase the question. You you trained to play.
Rugby. How how does the training for
rugby fit into running and do you still do that type of
training? I suppose it's just cross
training really. And yes I do.
I'm I, So I got injured about 3 years ago and probably injured
because I'd stopped the cross training.
I, I was upping my ultra mileage and I've got, I was training for
the cataran way, the 90 kilometer one which I did, but
during training probably probably niggled a ligament in
my foot and probably during tore the ligament in my foot.
And so that was May 23 and I, I didn't really start running
until January this year. So three years really of three
surgeries during that time. And so I suppose going back to
your question, I'm the good thing about being injured for a
long time, because if you're only off for a few weeks, then
you just dream of going back to running and you just start
again. But I think because I've been
injured and not really run properly for about 2 1/2 years,
I started going out on my bike. I bought a Peloton and I started
swimming and my physio, which I should name check Jill Stephen
with Ascent Fitness. She does amazing.
She's a hill runner and a European hill runner herself.
And she does these online strengthening auditioning
classes that you can just I just do from Dropbox.
So in your own time, it's all about kind of single leg lunges,
just a lot of single leg strength.
So that when I've started running again, I really bridges.
I'm trying to think all the different things, but a lot of
it is about Euglutius medias and it's the one thing as I used to
be. I'm sorry I'm rambling a bit
here, but I was an orthotist. So my my degree was prosthetics
and orthotics. And latterly I was 18 years in
the NHS and latterly in the NHSI, did sports bio mechanics
in a private clinic. And a lot of my runners had
problems with feet, ankles, knees, hips.
And an easy test was getting them to show me how they were,
how they did on a single leg squat.
And but I'm I'm doing funny things from the hands here.
But basically that's me looking at their pelvis.
And so many of them, when they did the single leg squat, their
pelvis dipped to one side because the gluten need wasn't
firing. And so, so many of runners
issues come from lazy bums, lazy glute muscles.
And so a lot of Jill's stuff actually is all about getting
those glutes firing. And so I really feel that my
comeback, which is another story, has been made easier
because I've been doing Jill's classes for about 3 years
regularly. Because I saw it as my physio
for my foot. I did it barefoot, barefooted,
because I really wanted my foot, which I was having problems
with, to regain its balance again and, and its little
strength and intrinsic muscles. So I think I've gone so far off
your question. Cross training is really
important. That's basically.
And so now that I'm back running, I'm, I deliberately set
myself a challenge this year. So I turned 50 at the end of the
year. I know you can't believe it.
I, I am and I realized in January that I've got about 50
weeks and I thought, well and I'm so determined to keep cross
training and not go down that rabbit hole of just run, run,
run, run, run again. So I am, I've set myself up 50
triathlons before I turn 50. Now when I say triathlon and I
have, I'm up to #14 I think tomorrow I'm as long as I so it,
it can be very, very mini. So when I, when I was first
starting back, I was only doing kind of 2K run, you know, these
are many, but it's my rules, you know, So as long as I run, swim
and cycle that one day as, as my triathlon and that's me counting
as triathlon. So I, I do a triathlon every
Monday. I just to make sure that I don't
just go back to being a only running because I think it's so
important. There you go.
That was a very long, that was a very long Wednesday time.
Before you finish that answer question that I've got is your
glutamus gluteus maximus? Is your bum muscle?
What's your gluteus medium? Ah, it's, it's also your bum
muscle. So your glutamine, your gluteus
gluteus maximus is your big round, peachy one.
The big fire is your biggest muscle in your body, but the
glutamine lies underneath it and it's just so it is you will fire
it when you're so we think a lot of single leg stuff, basically
I, I and it's it stops. So if you're doing a single leg
squat, if your glute meat is weak, your knee will go into the
middle. That makes sense.
It's harder for you to keep your knee in in line with your your
hips and your feet because your glute, your glute meat helps to
add adduct. Abduct AB Abduct your hip away
from the midline. And how is that different from
your performance? Oh gosh, I'm not.
I don't know. You've reached my level of
understanding. It's a muscle that I keep
hearing runners say it's. Even deeper, it's even deeper
and it it gets and it's a very, very difficult 1 to get into to
massage and to and to relieve as well.
But yeah, it's yes, it's a smaller muscle, but it's in
among it's in amongst the same group.
OK, Yeah. See and because of that answer I
know simultaneously have my coach and my physio saying This
is why we tell you to do strength.
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
So you because it's important. It is.
And for for injury prevention,
really it is. Yeah.
So the next question that we did have on the set that you've
answered was what was your first race, which was the Great North
Run? So I'm going to slightly tweak
that now. So you mentioned about the
catheter and we want to jump on that.
How did you progress from your 10 kids, half Madison's,
Madison's from your, in fact, let's even go back again.
Who's your club that you run with and are you still with
them? Yes, so, well I've, I've gone
through three clubs, but this is over 30, about nearly 30 years.
So when I was living in London it was Beckenham Rd.
Runners I and they were my first ever club and they were, they
introduced me to the social importance of a running club.
So we met in a Cricket Club, you know y'all, you know, coming
from work, you went out and did all your different sessions and
you came back and the huge part of it was you would then go into
the Cricket Club for a drink and it's all about just the chat
afterwards. And I'd never thought that
that's what a running club could be, you know, I think I just
always thought it was much more just about sport or just about
the training. So that introduced me to that
side of things and the importance of the social element
of running. And then when I moved up back to
Fife, I joined Carnegie Harriers for, oh, I think maybe two or
three years actually, I'm, but when I moved over to Edinburgh,
I just couldn't make it across the training I and it just
didn't make sense anymore. And my sister by that point was
HBT. And so I've been HBT for about,
oh, 10 or 12 years probably. Again, don't get too much
training and they're a very sociable club.
Yeah. Have you got a brown T-shirt?
Oh yeah, were yesterday, yeah. So the question that I had, the
question I had initially in my head was how did you go from
your 10 KS half marathons, marathons to Katherine and Trail
Ultra as I would imagine, how did you go from that to Ultram
Running I? Bounced a wee bit.
So so my Great North Run was 2002 as Julie Backley and then I
did London as Katrina McCracken, my my maiden name in 2003.
And 4:00 and 5:00 because I was living in London and it was dead
easy kind of to get into London Marathon at that point.
I don't know if I've got this, you know, roast tinted glasses
on, but I do remember that if you wanted to run, you could.
I don't think I'm I at the same time, I did run.
My mum had multiple sclerosis and I've generally have always
run for a charity. So maybe that's why I was
getting in as easily as I could. And maybe they had they didn't
have as many people asking for places, but I just didn't
remember this huge ballot and huge will I won't I get in thing
that there is no. Anyway, so was London, Londoning
another little marathons? Oh, other little marathon, she
says, like Chicago 2000 and 4005.
But at the same time a flatmate of mine was doing the Caledonian
Challenge. So that was a 54 mile from Fort
William down to a. Now what would it be 54 miles
from Fort William down to the Loch down to pass the wigwams?
The name of. Bean glass farm.
Octa Tyre farm. About it there.
Yeah, we'd. Be Octa tyres.
It was at the ferry, it was at the very tip of the Loch.
That'll be bean glass. Right.
So have you heard of the Cali challenge?
Yeah, it's, yeah, it's been off the calendar for a wee while
now. It was, it's generally most
people. It was a 24 hour challenge aimed
actually at teams of four, mostly walking and you'd have 24
hours to do it, but there were a few teams that ran it.
And I, I, because I was marathon training at that point and also
just hate Midgie's. I just thought I don't want to
be out for too long in May because it's always the, it was,
it was always the longest day of the year.
So I suppose I actually did 2. I did that 2004 and 2005.
So I'd kind of already started that little ultra thing back
then, dabbled in it, move back up.
I don't know, I get a bit hazy about what I did then.
And yeah, I've just always enjoyed racing, so I'm sure I
did lots of other races in between.
I had children and went back to my Rd. marathons in my early
40s. So did 6 marathons this decade.
I and P beed. I couldn't believe that P beed
in at age 44 beat my 27 year old self.
I PB in London 2021. I got shall I can I can I boast
boasting for me. I got 3/21/01.
I was delighted with myself. Yeah, yeah, delighted with
myself. So then got on my then got a bit
silly and thought, oh, if I get a coach, I could maybe get under
320. So I got a coach and I went off
to Boston and I completely messed Boston up.
I was on for 3/17 until I wasn't limped over the line and into
the medical tent at 3:34. But there you go.
Yeah, I just, you know what it's like.
I just, I had it was I put too far, too much pressure on
myself, started off far too quickly.
And yeah, so I think there was that and my ego took quite a
bashing. I was annoyed with myself how
badly I took that actually, and just told myself, do you know
what? You don't?
I wanted to step away from pace and so thought, what do you
enjoy about marathon training? It's the long.
I do enjoy the long runs. So I thought, well, I've been
listening to podcasts young, sorry to mention another podcast
on this podcast, but young hearts run free.
They'd inspired me to go right, OK, let's do some ultras.
So I wondered about the West Highland way, but just didn't
know if I actually would enjoy that distance.
So, and I also know that you've got to, you know, you can't just
again say, I want to do it and you're able to get in.
You've got to show that you've run certain distances and
certain elevations. So I thought well, so I started
so I did Catran we and I did I did the Lochaber 80, which was
part of the Skyline series from Kinloch leave in in 20.
I can't remember 22 maybe that was I think they only had it on
the the calendar for a couple of years at Lochaber 80.
I don't know either of you did it or no.
It was wonderful. I loved it.
Then moved up to 90 with Kataran and then had my eyes on 100.
But my foot had fallen apart by then.
But it did make me realize that I'm not.
I don't want to run through the night.
And I do that probably 100 Ki think would be my would be my
limit of enjoyment. Yeah.
Well, at, at one point the Catherine Trail, we, we put on
a, a special, say a special edition we're on for three
years, which was running in One Direction starting on the Friday
night and then running it the same direction as the race.
So it was the double cat around it was 110 miles.
So it would have been what? Oh my goodness.
So I I I ran it the first year and won it and then I race
directed at the next two years. Right.
Wow. Race directed the the special
kind of edition to do it both ways.
Gosh. It was on at the same time as
the normal race, so Karen, who was the race director at the
time, she was too busy doing that so I took on the duties of
doing the the double. The double, wow, I'm just
thinking because that final descent, I'm thinking of your
first ascent. Yes, we we went up.
Really tough. Yeah.
Really tough. I mean, it was a that the final,
yeah. I mean, you've then got a lovely
long descent, which was my horrible final ascent.
Well, I did love the cataran. I really did.
Even just like the youth hostel side of things, bunking up with
other girls the night before, meeting people in awe of people
that would camp and then just get up about every time it was
in the morning and go and run 90K.
That was incredible. I was very happy to have a bunk
bed inside. But it was a great event.
I loved it, Yeah. It started out, there used to be
a hotel, you know, as you come down to the bottom of the hill
there was a hotel there and this of the later you were in the
race, you used to come down the hill and everybody had been in
the pub having a few pints. So you came in the door and you
got the biggest reception. Ever amazing.
Yeah, that's yeah. Yeah, I think the there was
rumours of it being a insurance job.
The hotel doesn't exist anymore, but will not speculate on that.
Oh well, it still felt special. It was still.
Yeah, it was even just using the youth hostel still people around
and it was great. Yeah.
I really enjoyed it. I would recommend it to anyone.
It was tough, but really good. Yeah.
I. Think was it not on this weekend
it. Was indeed, yeah.
Oh, I suppose, yeah. Me, yes.
Yeah, it would have been there. Yeah, I think under Rocket.
Eventually. Yeah, yeah.
When I did it, there were two organizers and one was oh, I
told you I was rubbish with names.
He's. Going.
No Aussie, no Australian. Oh, Keith.
Keith Hughes, who's the previous guest?
Yeah. Oh, is he?
I Well, he was, he was. We did a role reversal last
weekend and he was he took part in the Fife Thogenway Ultra, so
it was nice. To Richie Cunningham and Keith
Hughes took it on for a year after Karen and George used to
do it. They did it for 10 years and
then Bill Ayers took it on as part of rocket events.
Not that I know anything about ultra history in Scotland.
As well. I'm glad it, you know, I'm glad
it has carried on, you know, You know, it's always good to see
these things carry on. That was interesting.
I got, I think I got a bit of a history lesson there for all the
newbies that are in the all these post COVID runner.
But the Cataran's definitely on my tech list.
We'll see how the fling goes. So getting back to, you said
about your running, but you've you've changed to or maybe you
still run as well. You've added.
In addition, you support other people's running by setting up
an events company yourself. Blast running.
Yes, yeah. Tell us a bit about that.
So that was really bad timing. It was the end of 2019, but it
was also good timing. So the reason I set it up was I
thought, you know, big advocate of Park run.
That was great. That and I live in Cramond so
I'm, I'm pointing over my shoulder here, but basically the
Cramond Park like park run is half a mile from my door.
And at that point there weren't many other Edinburgh ones.
So we'd, you know, we'd regularly see 6-7 hundred people
come down and do Cramond Park run on Saturday morning.
And I personally thought I love 5K, but actually I think I
prefer a 10K and wouldn't it be good to have a regular 10K that
you could come along to as well? So we started actually with that
in mind that it would just be a regular 10K.
But I offered, I did offer a 5K as well and a two mile option.
And it, it, it, it started off obviously tiny.
I think I was, you know, I'd get single figures of people turning
up. I don't know how I had the the
the confidence that just keep on going, but I did.
I just kept I just kept turning up and people just it just
trickled through. I suppose I'm I am, but but then
obviously COVID hit and things just it was just down tools for
everyone, wasn't it? I'm however, I kind of it worked
well for me in a sense in that for a good few months, I was the
only race in Scotland because Edinburgh Council let me re
crack classify as an outdoor fitness class.
So because it because I kept, I kept saying to council, listen,
there's military fitness classes going on and there's whatever
personal training going on in the park.
Why can't I just have third? You know, at that point they
said, well, you can have 30 runners.
It has to be more of a kind of a time trial.
So you know, we'd all turn up with our masks, the Meadows and
the runners had to register online 1st and they had to tell
me what time they thought they would do their 5K in.
And so the fastest estimated time would be #1 up to #30 and
every two 2-3 seconds, I would blow a whistle and the next
person would go. But we had to do that for
months. It was a funny old time, wasn't
it? So I suppose.
And, and so I ended up having waves.
I had a 10:00 wave of 30 runners, a 10:30 wave of 30
runners and 11, you know, so by the time I think we were like
mass starts again by May 21, I think was the first kind of mass
start again. I don't know, without COVID and
that kind of nice little. I've seen that.
Yeah, yeah. A little introduction for some
people to blast running. I don't know if it would have
ever progressed from, you know, the tiny, tiny numbers I was
getting in 2019. But yeah, we, we did keep going.
And yeah. So that's seven years.
I suppose the September would be we'll be going and we now do
about 2025 events a year of our own.
I but I bought from the very beginning I wanted to do my own
chip timing. So I know just so just this
morning I was timing a race for someone else.
I have time for about 10 other events now as well and just love
it. I absolutely love it.
I my tagline has always been your race, your pace.
I I it doesn't. I was going to say I don't care.
That sounds really bad, but I don't care what pace you do, you
know, I just want you to come along and enjoy it and I, I,
yeah, I will support you whether you're doing your 15 minute 5K
to a 4550 minute 5 Ki really don't mind.
It's just about coming along and taking part.
One of the 1st events that I turned up to of yours as we were
discussing just before we started recalled them was 20
along the 4th. And what I really enjoyed about
that, and I've never heard of another race doing this was as
you mentioned there the waves, so was wave 1 the slower
runners. And then I thought that was AI
think that's a great idea. Because yeah, it's, it's just
nicer for everyone. Yes, yeah, yeah.
And the finish line just feels a bit more inclusive as well.
And you've not got. Yeah, because there's the longer
a race gets, then the more disparity there is between your
first runner and your last runner.
I mean, even even last weekend I had my 5 Pilgrim way.
There was 8 hours between my first runner and my last runner.
Yeah. But if you, but if you bring
that down to a 5K, you can still have half an hour between your
first and your last. So a 20 mile hour you can.
Yeah, you can have up to kind of.
Yeah, we are. Yeah.
We've, it's about 2 1/2 hours. We generally go.
It's just the last two years we've had people breaking the
two hours and we generally our last runner comes up in about 4
1/2 hours. So it's still quite a long time
and it's just nice. I so the reason I did it was,
yeah, just one logistically, actually for my Marshalls, it
means that they're out for a shorter time.
But also I just feel it's always, well, actually some
runners had come to me and said I just, I don't want you hanging
around for too long. Kind of start off a bit early
and I just naturally actually just kind of went from there and
thinking, yeah, why not? And it does just create and
where people cross. So where the fast runners, the
wave three who start an hour later than that very first wave,
there's three waves. So there's a 8:30, a nine and a
9:30. The 9:30 fast days generally
catch up with the first ones on the 4th row bridge.
So there's this big, lovely, big kind of, and it's wide enough
and A and just, I suppose dramatic enough where you can
have lots of overtaking and high fives on there.
Yeah. It's, it's, it's good.
Yeah. And another bit of history that
Nikki probably didn't know, the Highland Fling used to do tiered
starts where I think it was the older runners, the Super vets or
whatever it was 6:00 in the morning, females at 7, males at
8:00, and then they used to have a relay at 9:00.
And do that, does the fling not still do an early start?
They they introduced it last year.
So they've got 5:30. No.
Is it half five? No, I think it's 5:00.
I think it's an hour before. Is that not for?
You can choose to do it rather than.
It used to be this category went at that time.
I think there's a stipulation. If you don't think you're going
to realistically finish it within the time, you've got that
extra where it's not just an early start because you want an
early finish, it's, you know, to give people.
That yeah, that that is the difficulty actually, because 20
long the 4th I I I try my best to make that clear as well.
It's not just because you need to get to your whatever your
grams or your friends BBQ that afternoon.
It is. And every year someone, every
year someone who is too fast for the 8:30 wave goes in the 8:30
wave. And I don't know, you know, I
don't know how many times I have to say it.
You will be running by yourself because you're too fast for that
group. You'll get to the Marshalls way
too quickly. You're going to, you know,
'cause the team a bit of anxiety, like, oh God, we've got
a mark. We've already got a runner on
the bridge and you know, they're not due for another hour.
You know, it causes causes it causes nothing major, but I just
generally the runner who's done it comes in very embarrassed and
says, I get it now. You know, I'm really sorry.
I just didn't get it. And that's, you know, it's fine.
It's fine. But it's just there's reasons
for Jet. Yeah, we, we, we we're also not
on the choice. It is on and we're very much
this. This group is for your 1516
minute milers. You know you will If you're
faster than that, you'll be so obvious in a way I.
I would probably be too harsh on people and say if you start
early you're not eligible for a price.
Oh well, they're not eligible for prizes because it's done on
chip time, so they won't. Even if they've crossed the line
first, by the time the the people even faster than them
cross the line, they they generally aren't the fastest
person. But their chip time is excluded
from the prizes. I would say oh.
I see. Yeah, absolutely.
Yes. Well, you're harsher than me,
Mike. But the seed has been planted I.
Know in theory, in theory I could be that harsh, but
actually in reality, yeah, I'm a bit of a softy.
So you've got about 20 to 25 events now.
Have you got a favorite one personally that you like to
organise? It probably still is 20 along
for it. It was my initial one.
It was before Blast Running actually.
So I started that in March 29, sorry 2019 because I was running
London Marathon for the Ms. Society and memory of my mum and
I needed, I needed to raise money for the charity.
So I'm, and when I did my first 3 London marathons, I was living
in London, There was always a 20 mile or somewhere, I don't know.
Again, I don't know if I'm thinking with roads, tinted
glasses, but that was my memory that I could quite easily find a
20 mile or within the right time frame for your, your coach, for
your, your training cycles. So I looked around, looked
around and the only one I could find was in Northumberland, I
think about 5 or 6 weeks before London.
So I just thought, well, bye. And I know there is Edinburgh to
North Berwick, but that's more timed at Edinburgh Marathon.
It's, it's too late for London Marathon.
So I just thought, well, I can't be the only one.
And so that first year we had I think it was 37 runners and my
husband was a stopwatch and but the route's the same now and
we're up to, we're at over 800 entrance this year.
There's always people that don't turn up.
So I think we had 700 actually take part.
But the 4th row bridge has said we can go up to 1000 people.
So that's, yeah, I would love that because it it is, they're
the only one in Scotland and it is, I know it's maybe, well,
there's, there are other, it's aimed at London, but there are
the spring marathons that can absolutely fit into as well.
Well, Manchester is popular for as well.
That one springs to mind as well.
Because they're just a week apart, aren't they?
That's right. And I think this is European.
It's not. Is it Paris?
I can't think it was Paris too early.
Possibly there was another, there was another European one
that it fits in well with as well.
But no, I think just a connection to, yeah, my mum.
I suppose it's really what it comes down to.
There it was. It's the Ms. Society and it's
they, they generally there's a charity, always want to come
along because every race I do has a charitable element to it
and I choose lots of small charities.
I suppose the Ms. Society is one of my biggest ones, but not all
charities kind of turn up or they just, you know, and that's
fine. You know, there's no, I have no
problem with that. But I just love that the Ms. do
the site it do come along and they want to be involved and
they want to give T-shirts out and yeah, it's just really nice.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
You say you could have up to 1000 people in that race 2 Two
questions. Is that your most popular one
and do you have plans on how to get 1000 people signed up?
It depends what you mean by most popular.
Yes it's the one that I get most people to.
But I took over the West the the water of leaf half it was sales
out. In about 5 minutes, doesn't it?
Exactly, Nicky, that's what I'm saying.
Depends what you mean by popular.
Your interpretation. Yeah, exactly.
I would say water relief is probably the most popular in
that sense in that it's so fun to watch.
I just, I, I open, open it and I just have the, the spreadsheet
and it just populates. You just see all the Ding, Ding,
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding.
I because when I took that one on it, it's gone through so many
different owners or you know, or caretakers, custodians and the
current custodian and it's gone from running clubs to just a few
people to any. So a couple of friends of mine,
Angus Thompson and Andy Whitney had been doing it for quite a
few years and they asked me to come along and time it, which I
did. And then they actually said,
would you just take it from us, please, which I did, which is
good and bad because I enjoy, I used to enjoy taking part in the
water lead. So there's I've been learning
that thing. I've got to say no to some
things because it definitely means that I can't do it
anymore. But yeah, I would say the water
lead is the most pop is the most popular for that.
Yeah, it just, it has. And it's also handicapped in
that, but that's more for it's a narrow path.
There are, it's, it's kind of a little bit, what's the word?
Not wild, but the road crossings, you know, you're
popping, you're, you might be on the water of Leath and lovely
little leafy path, but then you pop up socket and skate, skate,
skate park and have to cross, cross quite a busy road.
And then you're back down onto the river again.
And then you pop out at Stockbridge on a Sunday morning
when the market's on, you know, and you're having to cross a
crossroads with buses and taxis and it's a bit feral.
That's it is a bit feral and I don't think we could have many
more than I think we've gone up to about 200 or so for that.
So I think for that reason, it keeps it very popular as well
that, you know, that there's only a limited amount of spaces.
Yeah. I think people enjoy the
exclusivity of it because you know, like if you know
something's going to sell out really, really fast, you're
you're very much aware of that. Like two other races that come
to mind for me like that is the Otter of the Chili Trail that
sells out really fast now. Yes, black.
Rock black. Are you going to see Black Rock?
Just absolutely yes. Like.
Within So what of leaf? Like how I say 5 minutes?
Is it literally as fast? As that.
Yeah, about 20 minutes. 20 minutes, yeah.
Wild. Yeah.
It's incredible, I know, because if you, if you did it last year,
then you get a little e-mail, a little e-mail that tells you
when it's going to open. So you get a little window and
then it goes live to everybody else.
So yeah, it's just good fun. I mean, I'd, I'd love all the
races to run to, to sell out that quickly, but I think in
general people are taking longer to sign up to things.
It's generally happening much more closer to, to dates, the
race dates. So you just have to hold your
nerve and to answer your question, like, I have no idea
how to get more than up to 1000 people.
I'd love it. I, I, I, it's really hard.
I use social media quite a lot, Instagram, Facebook, I'm not on
TikTok. I'm not that kind of It's not
for me. I've got 12,000 people on my
mailing list, people that have come along to the races before.
I let them all know what we're up to, but I don't know how else
to let people know about it. I mean, I suppose I could
occasionally. I contact all the running clubs
and ask the secretaries to pass the information on.
I've no idea if they do it or not.
It's a hard 1. I don't know if you've got any
ideas. Well, I.
Think well, you're obviously advertising on the the best
podcast in Scotland. Absolutely, absolutely.
So I'm trying to think of the date next year.
It's something like the 23rd of March, whatever the Saturday,
Saturday is something like I've not got my diary with me just
now. But yeah, it's not open yet, but
it will be soon. I think I need to get on that
bandwagon. I, I generally didn't open races
too far in advance. I certainly didn't do it a year
in advance, but I think there are two types of runners and
they're definitely runners who want to plan so far ahead.
They want to absolutely get the races in a year in advance.
And I get that for your big races, you do you need you need
to really pinpoint your your goals, But you also got other
runners that are very much kind of sign up on the day to a six
hour ultra, which I have happened every year at sunset.
I'm like, who can turn them up just to to decide on the day?
Not that I know. You know you guys can, but you
know not everyone can I. Don't even know if I could make
it. Well, but, yeah, so it's, it is
hard as an, as an event organizer to plan sometimes even
just medals, you know, how many medals do you order?
Because I hate waste. That's my issue.
I hate waste T-shirts and medals.
I don't, I don't want to have all these things that just are
no use to anyone. So that's, yeah, that's, that is
one of the tougher things to organise because I suppose it
doesn't really matter how many people you have in the course.
You've got the same Marshalls and the same water stations.
I suppose you might have to have more water at the water
stations, but all those things stay the same.
But there are definite things that I have to pay for
beforehand and it's just really hard to just say stay confident
that build it and they will come sort of attitude, especially
when there are more and more that I do feel that event
calendar is burgeoning just now and it's great for runners but
it's not so great for event organisers.
Yeah, but with your with your Marshalls, we're talking about
the water of leaf half, for example, if they were
marshalling at that, would they have first dibs on a place?
The following year, yes, absolutely.
That's the only one to do that with because it's the only one
that really sells out. But yes, if you Marshall, yeah,
if you offer to Marshall, then you get a free place the year
after. Yes, I am far too soft and.
Yeah, mate, could just offer the place and you would be happy
with that. Yeah.
So you said about the sunset ultra, which is 6 hours.
I actually was ignorant forgetting that as an ultra
because I thought the one that you had last weekend, so the
other weekend was the Faith Pilgrim where I thought that was
blast first ultra. Well, I know it kind as funny,
isn't it? Officially, I've had the sun, so
the sunset running festival has been going for this is at six
year and two years ago I thought to myself, well, some of them
are so the the the you can it's down at the prom.
It's lapsed. And now that I know about
backyard ultras, it's pretty much a backyard ultra.
It's four point something miles of loop.
So you can either do 1 yard, but it's not a backyard of so you
can do 1 loop, 7 K. You can do it three times to
have 1/2 marathon, 6 times to be a marathon.
And that's where I stopped originally.
But I had people that were taking six hours for a marathon
and I thought, well, I'm here for six hours anyway.
There will be people, there will be people be able to just offer
it and they will come who will want to see how many laps they
can do in six hours. And we're up to something like
50 people this year want to come and see how many laps they can
do in six hours. So yeah, you might still only do
a marathon only, you know what I mean.
You might only still do a marathon in that six hours.
But most people that have entered have have gone past that
marathon in the six hours. And I haven't looked at the
stats recently. I think we're up to 18 laps as
our. Yeah.
Would that be right in six hours about before.
I can't do the maths. I would have to go back and look
at spreadsheet. But yeah, we're up.
We're up to. There's some, yeah, some really
good runners come along now. So, yeah, suppose so.
I suppose officially that's my first ultra, but I didn't really
see it. I don't see it really as an
ultra because it's not a point to point and my runners are at
most 2 miles away from me. So as a as a as an event, as an
organizer, it feels a very self-contained and safe ultra.
But that's why it's taken me quite a long time to organize
the Fife Pilgrim Way Outro, which happened for the first
time on the 2nd of May. And that's taken two or three
years of, of research. We did a recce with a group of
runners last year and then the real thing this year because it
felt much more just a bigger challenge logistically and for
the health and safety of the runners.
I really didn't want to take it a nightly.
I wanted to really make sure that I'd thought everything
through because it's, it's a long wait and bad, you know,
shit can happen. And I just want to make sure
that I had contingency plans for that.
So it's the first time I've ever GPS tracked runners.
So that was exciting. A dot watch I've never had
because I've never had a dot watch really before because my 6
hour ultra, they were, they were just either 2 miles that way or
two miles that way. That's you don't have to don't
watch that one. But you know, a chip time
people, but that a chip isn't a tracker.
It won't. It's an RFIDA radio frequency
device. So it only knows where you are
when you go over that mat. It's just an absolute place and
time where it's GPS you're yeah, it's satellite track.
At least with the chip time or the the diber or whatever you
want to call it, you know that the person is between this
checkpoint and that checkpoint. Yes, yes.
So. It is a way to track them down.
Yeah, true. Yeah, Absolutely.
Yeah. I've got some questions that we
used to ask before Nikki joins the podcast.
This was the questions directed at race directors, so I've
looked them up. I don't think we've asked these
since, so I'll ask you now. Feel privileged because it's
been over a year since they've been asked do.
You feel privileged. Out of all your races, do you
have one that you wish you could do?
As in you could run. Yeah, if I fucking wait.
That was the easy one. Yeah, that would be the one.
I'm thinking about them all. There's another new one coming
up, supposed. To say your ultra that you've
just ran last week. Yeah, the five people will be
ultra. That's it.
Yeah, I would love to do it. I have done it.
I've done it all on a bike. I did it.
I did it on the recce last year. But it's a it's a great route,
Yeah. It's like choosing your favorite
child. You're supposed to say you love
them all equally. Well, I do like them all, I feel
yeah, I mean, because as a runner, because people often ask
or have been asked before what my favorite distance is.
And I find that really difficult because I do enjoy, you know,
kind of a type 25KS and I do enjoy ultras, you know, they're
just very different, as you know, and a 5K can be harder.
Seriously, I think you'll maybe maybe agree than A90K or 100K.
I've only gone up to 90, but going flat out for 5K is bloody
hard. Whereas ultras for me were never
about being at the sharp end. Ultras for me were definitely
get the distance done as well as I could, but it wasn't about
racing. So just a very different
experience and just, yeah, so I suppose in the same sense, I've
tried to then put on different races in our calendar that, you
know, we we didn't put it on this year, but we've got the
Scottish mile, which gets the people that just want to come
out and just, you know, it's point to point.
It's quite good fun. It's down at the prom.
The prom is windy. So we choose on the race day
which direction you're going in. So I can't promise that you'll
have a tailwind, but I can promise that you're not going to
have a headwind. So that's a good fun one for
just right how because you don't often get to do that.
I think there's a lot of people that their shortest distance
they ever race is 5K. They don't ever race one mile.
So it's quite, it's good fun. And then obviously do all the
different distances and add a trail in as well, just because I
like variety. So I'm, yeah, just thought
that's what I'd offer to other people.
But yeah, the Fife Pilgrim way I think I am.
I hail from Fife and it's a so part of it is trip down memory
lane for me. I go to all these different
villages that have different memories of childhood.
But it's a lovely it's 70% trail, 30% tarmac.
It's it is undulating, but it's not, you know, it's only it's
1200 meters. It's not ridiculous, but it's
not flat. So it's, and you're sometimes in
little coal mining villages, you're sometimes in the woods.
It's just a really, there's something to see.
And we, we got a lot of a lot of the runners were from Fife And
what they, the feedback I got from them was it was so nice
that their granny or their children could be on the course
and come and meet them. And they don't get that if they
go up to Kinnock leave and or, or these other or West Island
way, they don't they their kids or their, their parent or their
children or the parents, they don't see the runners.
So that was really nice. It's a very accessible route for
for supporters, yeah. And focusing on Pilgrim way.
Yeah. Is there anything that you can
think of that you would change or improve for next time?
I've been asked a few times about relays and I've given it
quite a lot of thought. Would it be an improvement or
would it be another offering? And I think I'm going to stay
purist. Don't kill me, people, but
having been part of so I helped out at the not the devil the
what's the other one the. Fling or the West?
End the Fling. I helped out at the Fling last
year, so I was there at the start line getting all the bags
for a backdrop and I went to Balmaha and I was there giving
out the bags. But I've also I supported my
friend Emma Peverell on her West Island Full help West Island
Baila 2 two years ago last year. I can't remember.
I just saw how many cars are involved in that coming to small
places and logistics of that. And as I say, I've just said, a
lot of the Fife villages are small and I don't think could
actually cope logistically with with a relay.
So I think I'm just going to what you say, put your something
on a tree or pin your flag to a post and just say sorry, but
this, this is a 90K solo effort. What could improve?
There's always things that you you can think of and it's too
close to it just now. At the moment, it's just all a
perfect bubble. But I'm sure, I'm sure there'll
be things I can think of to improve on it.
More runners. That was a nice start with 121,
but 130 sign up and 121 took part.
And actually as my first go, I was really delighted with that.
It felt contained. It felt like a really nice
number of people that I could keep easily keep watch on.
And we did have to phone a couple to say you can of course,
a couple of times. But actually I, I, I it could
handle more and it was lovely. We started at a nice hotel at
North Queensbury. So it was a really good feedback
for that was kind of five star registration, no portaloos,
coffee on tap. And that was that was lovely.
And then we finished. OK, yeah, improvement.
I would improve my finish. The problem is I don't know how
much I can improvement improve it.
The finish line is the, is the ruins of the Saint Andrews
Cathedral, which is on a Rd. And yeah, it's a slightly wider
pavement in front of it. But you can't, I don't know how
well you know St. Saint Andrews, but you run up,
your final kind of half mile is up.
Saint Anne is up South St. which had a market on.
So the runners were saying, oh, it wasn't great, you know.
Well, people weren't, they weren't aware that we just run
90 kilometres. We don't actually have the
wherewithal to be dodging in amongst food stalls.
But I, you know, I can't do, there's no space for me to do
the red carpet. Not that I would want to do the
red carpet, that's done elsewhere, but I'd like to have
some better, bigger fanfare. You have just run the 90K you've
run across Fife. It's incredible.
Rather than a, you know, I did put a, you know, I got a special
banner printed and we put it on the fence and we had our flags,
but it didn't feel enough. We did have the church hall
where we had the fudge, doughnuts, chocolate milk,
lasagna. You know, we had all of that.
And people could come and get changed and then sit down and
just have some really nice kind of social element afterwards.
But I'm, yeah, I don't know, suggestions on a postcard how I
could improve the actual finish line when I don't have much
space. What do?
They, Nikki was saying earlier that her, I think it was pre
recording her favorite race is Devil of the Highlands and back
in back in the olden days about I don't know how long ago before
John Duncan took it on. We used to finish as you come
into Fort William on the road, there was a line and chalk drawn
on the pavement and that was your finish line.
Yeah, John Duncan, I was 1 up from that.
They've they've moved the location, you come in a
different direction and it is the red carpet now.
So it's, it's a different event. It's it takes away or adds to
whichever way you see it it, it used to be a very, very low key
event and it was, as I say, lining on the pavement.
You finish and get out of the way.
The car is coming in the car park.
I. Know right.
It was a little bit like that. Oh, I don't know somewhere in
between. I mean because there's something
very special about finishing at the cathedral.
The the the mayor S did come up to us or the mayor, the female
mayor came up at the end and she hadn't actually been aware of it
going on and she did say listen, tell, you know, get in touch.
We'll get a Pipe Band. We'll do much more of a bonanza
for next year. So that'd be brilliant, but I
suppose a pipe gun band can't play for 8 hours, you know, so,
but maybe, you know, even like because tourists aren't allowed
into the the grounds of the ruins, I'm would they allow
those hallowed grounds open? I don't know.
I think, I'm not sure if they would or not, but I'd like,
yeah, just something a bit more for the runners.
I think somewhere in between. I maybe don't need such a huge
thing as as the red carpet or the OR a Pipe Band, but just
something a wee bit more I think would be good.
There are races that they've got a solo piper and they can see
the runner coming from quarter mile away.
They can start playing. That's a good idea.
That's a great idea because you can.
You can. You can see them coming up South
St. That's.
Almost announcing to the crowd there's somebody coming.
I love that idea. That's a good idea, yes.
And I could roll. You know it doesn't have to be
the same piper for 8 hours. You can have that one for free.
Thank you, Mike, you. You You piqued my interest when
you said lasagna I. Was like, oh, it was so good.
And yeah, the chocolate milk seemed to be a hit.
And when we did a couple of recce runs and asking people
what one what they wanted on checkpoint food, boiled potato,
salted boiled potatoes. Oh my goodness, we we didn't do
enough. Another improvement.
I didn't realise quite how popular they would be.
Watermelon and A and the lasagna at the end.
It was. Yeah, it was top notch.
Yeah, it was really good. But because by then, actually,
as much as we thought everyone would want a fudge doughnut
because the. I don't know if you've heard of
Fisher and Fisher and Donaldson fudge doughnuts.
Oh, right. You have to make a pilgrimage.
It's just just to try one. But they're huge and they are
the pinnacle of fudge doughnuts. But you've just had a whole day
of sugar, haven't you? Really.
So actually what you want is lasagna or baguette and buttered
or, or even just I've even put on my list for next year just a
toaster. I remember at the end of Cataran
way, actually, I just wanted toast was a great idea.
I'm toasting a cup of tea. So yeah, that was that was
another learning actually, what do people want at the end?
Yeah. Yeah, I've volunteered for GB
ultras at the Glasgow to Edinburgh one year.
And you say about the salty boiled potatoes.
That was the first thing we don't run out of.
Yeah. We'll checkpoint shortly,
followed by cubes of cheese or the cheese sandwiches.
Really. Yeah.
People seem to really like cheese, as you say, see, because
of, like, the sugar and you've got your sugary gels and your,
you know, sweet drinks. I think people like the flavour
of a cheese sandwich or a bit of cheese.
I've done it myself. I've I carry baby bell.
Yeah, Yeah. So, yeah, no, I get it,
actually. Yeah.
It's a good idea. Again, noted.
I'll have to listen back. I'll have to listen to this
podcast. I find myself for these good
ideas. And if anyone else listening
does have suggestions for Cat for Ultra suggestions then you
can either get in touch with us or follow follow Cat and one
part her with the DMS. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. During UTMB, what, 50 miles into
the race, 60 miles and they were serving salami and cheese.
Continental type food is like no, no thank you.
Oh. You were no, thank you.
Odd. It's it's funny, isn't it?
What you think you'll want and then what you end up wanting.
If I go way back to 2003 when I did my first Cali challenge, so
I was, I don't know, her mid 20s.
Let's say I'd done marathon training, but I'd never done an
ultra and my mum and dad were supporting.
So they were at Glencoe and my mum had actually, to be fair was
potato, but she'd maybe a really nice French bean and potato
salad. And I think I pretty much did
that whole race on Jelly babies. You know, I just stored Jelly
beans even I didn't want any real food at all.
But I had all these, you know, I had them making me pasta.
And no, you just what you think you'll want and actually what
you do want are different. But I do remember 1 I'd phoned
John Cassidy, Young Hearts run free podcast for a wee bit of
advice on what to put in drop back drop bags for.
Which one was it? I think it was Cataran.
And he said, listen, just put something in that you know, that
you'll maybe really can keep you going.
Oh, can't wait to get whatever that would be.
And for me it was salt and vinegar crisps.
And it was right. I was thinking, Oh yeah, I've
got a salt and vinegar crisps coming up.
And there was, there was a real joy of going and that's what I
wanted at that point because again, you'd had, I'd had enough
tailwind or what was I active route, You know, I've had enough
kind of sugary stuff at that point.
I just wanted the the savoury. So yeah, it's just you want
different things at different points, don't you?
And the the last of the questions that you haven't seen
is a lot of runners, especially Nikki, gets nervous before a
race. Do you get nervous before a race
that you're organizing? Yeah, I don't sleep very well
for a whole week actually, just here's the main one.
Have I got enough portaloos? And the answer is always no,
because you can never have enough portaloos.
And that's why I always go back to we all need at the same time
in that kind of 5-10 minute window.
And I can't, if I've got 600 runners, I can't have 600
portaloos. So there's always going to be,
they're always going to be queues.
And portaloos are about £100 a pop right?
Aha, Nicky's eyebrows have just gone up.
They are a major expense in in events my.
Eyebrows have just gone up though.
Cat because see me being snobby or just.
Rank. I'd rather go in the Bush.
I feel like it's more hygienic going in a Bush because if you
go in a portaloo after 20 other people have been in front of
you, you want to be the first in that cure.
You're lucky if you're #20 try #400.
I have. I mean it's not.
Again, it's not. I'm not saying that us females
don't get the runners trots, but I do.
I'm now to always try and have some female only one.
I don't. Think that would make a
difference? Yeah, I think you're right,
actually. I know.
I think that's wishful thinking on my part, but I know.
Yeah, Portuguese keep me awake. I'm.
And just things like that. Have I thought of everything,
you know, is everything in place?
Do I need another arrow there? Should there be another Marshall
there? Timings or just yeah, everything
Edmar counsellor good to deal with in that they generally
haven't ever said no to me applying for a race, but they're
always a bit last minute. And so again, you just have to
hold your nerve that they will grant you a license because it
can be done on the week of. And you just have to, yeah, you
just have to go with it. And I've spoken to them about it
and I've said, listen, I really hope that if you had any queries
for me that that would be done in a, you know, if it's had a
red flag, you'd let me know. I had, I've only been taken.
So I had to go to the licensing board last year for race the
Tram. So this is a new event in our
calendar last year. And I think they were just a bit
concerned that was asking people to run alongside the tram.
I'll explain the race of tram in a minute.
But so I had to go to Chamber St. to the big licensing board.
There's people behind me in kind of a public gallery.
There was someone who was organizing the Pride March.
So this is the Tuesday race. The tram is the Sunday.
There was someone organizing the Pride March on the Saturday with
say something like I know 10,000 people.
There was someone else way bigger events than I was there
for. And I'm thinking surely this has
to just be a tick box because you can't say no on the Tuesday
to these people. And really all they were worried
about, the only questions they actually asked me was, well,
what happens if the tram comes along and there's is there too
many people for you runners to get on?
I was like, well, we'll just wait for the next tram.
I didn't really really get why I was there.
But race the tram is fun. It was 2, two or three weeks
ago. You get on the tram out of town
near the airport, it's called Edinburgh Park Central.
So you all get on the tram there and the tram goes into town.
You've pre chosen what station you get off at.
So the easiest one is you get off at Saint Andrew's Square.
So that's the kind of Harvey next end of town.
And if you get off there you've got and it's self NAV.
You have to get yourself back to the original Headland Park
Central, and if as the craw flies, it's about 5 1/2 miles,
the tram that you got off still has to go all the way down to
the terminus, but it waits for 5 minutes and then comes back up.
OK, so you've got 70 minutes, right, to do 5 1/2 miles, even
though you're self navigating and there's no Marshalls telling
which way to go. There's a lot of people that can
do 5 1/2 miles and 70 minutes. So it's, it's pretty given that
you're going to beat the tram back, but if you get off at the
terminus down at New Haven, you've only got 50 minutes to do
7 1/2 miles and it's mostly uphill.
So there's a bit and there's another one in between we added
this year. So it's a really good fun event,
but it's it's quite a difficult one to to explain on paper.
So I think people every year think that I'm asking you to run
on the tram lines. I'm not asking you to, you're
not racing the tram side by side, you're just racing it
back. And 90 something percent of our
right runners made it this year. But there's they don't all make
it. I think Mike should do that one
and get off at the last stop. Yeah, it's good.
It's good. We had a journalist from Runners
World asked to come and take part this year and it's tiny
again. I think this is personally, I
think it's one of my best ideas. I'm not getting that many.
We had 100 and 120 or something this year.
I'm like, guys, come on, this is great fun.
It's not chip timed. It's just a fun event.
And so with journalists seem to want to write about it, but I
don't know. Again, answers on a postcard.
How can I get more people along to race the tram?
Because it's it's brilliant. And you finish at a bake, you
finish at a bakery. Oh, come on Morgan, you have.
Us a lot of people say, oh, I only ever run to catch a train
or something like that, so this is the perfect idea.
Running for the bus, running for the tram.
That's it. I don't know, maybe it is.
Maybe it is the fact that it's not chip time and it's not got,
you know, it's an actual distance, No distance.
I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
So I'll give it another go next year and see if we can get more
people. Yeah, you win some, you lose
some. And next question, I think we're
back talking about the Pilgrims way.
How did you come up with idea for the root?
I, so I grew up, grew up in Mark Inch, which is in the pretty
much centre of Fife and I, I don't know, I remember my dad
always, my dad was a Walker and I'm sure he did the 5 Pilgrim
way. It maybe wasn't a recognised as
it is now route, but I grew up knowing about this route and it
just came back into my, I don't know, vision a few years ago.
I can't actually remember how, but I picked up a leaflet and
looked more into it and thought that would be a great ultra.
But I bet someone is already doing it or thinking about it.
And I had a little Google and in 2020 a Carnegie I think it was.
Yeah, it wasn't pH pH racing one of the Dunfermline.
There are three Dunferman clubs, Carnegie Harriers, Betrievi and
pH Racing, so I've name checked them all.
I can't remember which one it is.
We're going to do it, but they were going to do it as a as a
relay that year. So I contacted the the race
organizer because the information was still up on the
website and just said I don't want to step on your toes, but I
think this would make a great ultra.
If you're still considering putting it on, I will back off,
but if you're not, then please would, would you mind sharing
what you've I found out about it so far?
And, and they were, they were brilliant.
They were gracious enough to send me the information that
they'd find out. And then it was just a case of
going to 5 council, the five countryside Trust and doing all
the five police and just doing all the background checks of can
we do this at that point? Well, there still is a Pilgrim
way pastor and they put on because it's so pilgrimages have
got a very historical background and from the Catholic religion
and the so the the front countryside Trust had actually
employed a pastor to I suppose just bring that element to to
the way because it will because pilgrimages around the world.
I think there's a big I think there's a really big one in
Spain is sorry, I'm just trying. I'm trying not to my camera's
turned off there. I'm back.
Sorry. There's AI can't remember it's
called, but there's a big one in Spain that people now go on.
It takes days and days to do and I'm it and it's now there's TV
programs. There's a there's another
Pilgrims. Something de Milo or something
like that. Yeah, yeah, that sounds right.
Can we for the C Camino Camino, that's it anyway, the I met up
with the pill, the the pastor and did quite a few sections
with him walking and he was really positive because I said,
listen, This is why I'm here. I'm here to see could I put on a
race here? Do you think, do you think that
the the the trails could could cope with an event?
And and he was explaining how churches were very much part of
pilgrimages in that people would often sleep over in the churches
overnight and that they opened their doors to them.
And that the Fife, the different churches along the way are very
much wanting to be part of this. And it's it's all about there's
there's also a bit about Fife tourism that's bringing more
people to Fife and do these unsung.
There are towns along the way a lot Fife to a lot of people in
Saint Andrews and and Strother and Pitt and Weem and all those
lovely little E nuke. But there's so much more to Fife
than meets the eye. And but there's also a lot of
poverty in in Fife. And so bringing tourists to
these little mine or X mining villages maybe says it all
really brings some economy to to a lot along the route as well.
So I just find it really interesting and thought why not?
Let's give it a shot So. Your description there is names
Reverend Simon Hessett. By the way, well that's the new
yes, the man I met is put myself on the spot.
It's just gone. I'm so sorry, but he came along
to our our recce last May and he just sets the tone beautifully.
He's not he, yes, he's a man of the cloth.
I'm not AI, I'm myself. I'm not spiritual, spiritual and
religious, but I find what he the the calm that he brings to
the start line, the the kind of intent that he brings the the
start line, he kind of just sets that intent for the day.
And it's not just I kind of felt that I don't want this just to
be another point to point ultra where it's just all about the
distance and and the time that you do it is kind of yeah, let's
so we, we, we intentionally have a mile, we call it the
reflection mile, where we ask people if they want to, you
know, you don't have to be silent.
But that goes back to the pastor on one of our walks in for this
next mile, because I was walking with a friend.
I'd I'd like to invite you to do it in silence because
pilgrimages were done in silence and actually just been given
that kind of invitation and space to do that.
It was quite difficult, but it was also really nice.
And so we asked our runners to do that too, if they wanted to,
even if they're by themselves, You know, just to have that mile
of just reflection in pilgrimages.
You would also have been given when you got to these different
churches along the way, you would you would carry a little
leather pouch and you would also have each little village would
have its own mark. And I did think about that and I
still thinking about it for next year.
And do I, I was looking at like having little embroidered badges
made-up or, you know, do you have something that you collect
from each of the churches along the way?
I'm I as a yeah, as a, as a kind of nod to what pilgrimages were
all about. I mean, for some people, they
were the original naughty step, you know, they were used instead
of been sending someone to jail. You were sent on a long walk.
You were the church would sometimes send you.
That was your punishment, would be you take me sent.
Yeah. So I hope that and, and no, I, I
know from some people at the at the church hall at the end said
that they very much enjoyed that element to it, that it was more
than just a point to point that it was.
And you know, and you, you can bring to it what you want.
You know, if, if you're religious and you want to see it
in that way, then absolutely. If you just want to see it as a
mate dad on. But I just want to bring this
other side to if you want it to be like that.
I think that's really nice how you talk about reflection Mile
and even if you're on your own, I think if it was myself and
there would be a high chance I would be on moan, you know, like
hopefully in between people. But I listen to music quite a
lot. So at that point I would
probably just take, you know, your butt out and just, you
know, walk, jog, whatever you wanted to do in that point.
At what point in the race is that?
You've got 10 miles pretty much just or just over 10 miles at
that point. So you've, you've broken the
back, you know you can. And you can actually see the
sea. You can see Saint Andrews.
So it's a really nice point. There's a very open field and
yeah, it's lovely. So.
And I think just, yeah, just as you say, just being invited to
do it. You don't have to.
But even if you're on your own, just having a conscious effort
of how is it going or why am I, why am I doing this?
Because I've heard coaches speak about the why.
I think Alice Ross, Beveridge's partner, Alice, you've had her
on a few times and she's very much about knowing your why
before you start is so important.
Because when you are going through the pain cave or the
tough times, kind of being able to draw on that resource of why,
though, am I doing this to myself is it's important.
So just reflecting. So my tagline originally was
find your why along the way but I haven't pushed that one but.
I can imagine me in that mile. Go and ram your why cat.
Ram your why, Ram your why. Your next, your next, your your
checkpoint series is just about to come up, so you get your salt
vinegar crisps or your bog potatoes or whatever it is you
want at that point. You describe two things there
that made me think they're going into each of those villages and
you get a different marker from each checkpoint.
Maybe think of either orienteering where you you need
to go to a post and you like punch a hole in your card to
mark that you've been there or Barclay marathons where you pick
a page to say that you've been. So that reminds me of that is
this is running the was that the original what this is now?
Are we being off as philosophical?
Are we just doing a pilgrimage every time we go out for a run?
But and the other thing, did you say to the pastor that he he
described how the pilgrimage used to take people into the
church at set points? That sounds like an ideal
checkpoint to me. So.
Well, that's what I do, yes. I use the churches, yes.
So that, yes. So that's exactly what we do.
So we contacted the different churches along the way.
And so the the first checkpoint really is Dunfermline, but at
the Abbey. But to be honest, you've, you're
only 9 miles in at that point. So it's more just a top up of
water and you know that sort of thing.
And then to be fair, the next checkpoint is Loch or Country
Meadows. It's not a church, but it's a
very nice place for a, for a, for a, another checkpoint.
And then we are at a I'm just trying to get my bearings.
Mark Inch. So my yeah.
So your first checkpoint after that is Mark Inch.
That's at your 32 mile point. And some people, actually, we
did have a few people go. Do you know what I, this is my
I've done, I've done my ultra and we chose Mark Inch also
because it's at a train station. So it's quite a good one for or
maybe it's too easy to say I've had enough.
There's a train station. I'm out here, but it's a bit
yes. You can either go into the
church hall and, you know, have an actual sit down rest or it
was a beautiful day at that point for a lot of people.
So we had the chairs outside. We've got, you know, the water
station and all the food set up outside.
And you can stay for as long as or short as you want.
And then the next station is is Kenneway, which is another
church, and then series, which is the village hall.
And then we finally finish at a church hall.
So we've we tried to bring that side of things in as well.
Yeah. Then you mentioned earlier on
about you'd had just over 100 odd entries this year.
Yeah, how many finished? So of the 100 and of the 100 and
of the 130 starters, 121 finished.
That's amazing. It's good, isn't it?
I was really pleased with that I had asked for so I spoke to
Keith Hughes of Cataran Way about what would be a fair cut
off and we we reckon 15 hours, you know, because you've it's
basically 2 marathons, SO27 and 1/2 hour marathons.
That's, you know, that's fair with you know, it is undulating,
but also, oh, I'm so sorry, I've just lost my train of thought.
What's the question? I'm sorry, how many finishers?
But then we were talking about cut offs.
Yes. And we also spoke about whether
what people should have done beforehand as in could I
stipulate you must have done a certain distance before you do
90K? Because I was looking through a
look back at the cataran way and trying to work out and he, and
what he was really helpful with was saying, well, listen, I
think, you know, at least a marathon.
I can't remember who decided this between us, but between us,
we decided a marathon in the last year or an ultra in the
last two years. And I suppose what I wanted with
an ultra is you get it. You know, you've, you've, you've
had to train, you've done that training, you've got the mental
strength or, or you've, you know, you've had to go through
that marathon. I would have preferred to have a
wee bit more than that. But, you know, if you've you, at
least you've got the fitness in your legs and hopefully that the
psychology gets you through. What I didn't ask for was any
evidence of what you've done. It was very much done in
honesty. So one of her people that didn't
manage. Now, it's incredible that this
guy managed to actually get to Mark.
And she did do 32 miles, but he admitted he'd only done 10K
beforehand. He done 410 KS.
Yeah. Isn't that insane?
But also insanely awesome? I mean, his strength got me
through. So our back runner was Emma
Peverell. She's training for the spine,
the summer spine. So she did it with a big
backpack on, and she was describing that she had to stop
every so often. She was stretching out its
hammies with them and really a lot, a lot of just just chat to
get him through to the finish line.
But he was determined. He was a determined guy.
So I'm full of awe, but also what?
Were you? Thinking, man, you know, do you
not read anything? Have you done a marathon or
ultra? And often 10 Ki can do 90.
Yeah. No, both me.
Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
So there's, there's no
accounting for that side of things.
And I don't know if I want to get bogged down with having
evidence, you know, I don't know.
I have all the people that didn't finish and including that
guy. Did they stop where there was a
train station? No, the majority stopped at Mark
Inch. Of those nine, a couple were
timed out, but I think I'd made the decision series.
But they know there's no train station there.
But they did have supporters there that could help them and
we did have one who was helped off the course by first aiders.
Yeah, well, you mentioned earlier about would the train
station make it easy for them to stop?
So I know, yeah, absolutely. I think well in one way it's
kind of like my like my 6 hour ultra, you can stop every 4
miles, you know. So I I'm not sure.
But you can also fuel and I I find the reason why people are
slowing down, stopping if it's not an injury, injuries, fair
enough. But a lot of the time it's
because they're not fueling properly.
But if you're doing it like passing the checkpoint say every
4 miles, you're taking taking on fuel or you can't take on.
Fuel. Yeah, that's true.
So yeah, no, that's absolutely true.
Yeah. You've not got the well, so it's
maybe it's easier than to talk about it.
Well, I was going to say like a backyard ultra, but that's the
same as well. You can fuel every hour.
Yeah, I suppose so. It's really hard if you're if
you're feeling rotten at 32 miles and knowing that's the
train. There's a there's a way out of
here. But at the same time, we did
have one gent who's it was his knee.
And he just said, you know, that wasn't his day, that day.
And actually, it was great to know that he could stop at Mark
and and you know, it meant that he wasn't going to pummel
himself to get to the finish line because he could have, but
he didn't really want to because he knew he'd do himself more
injury. So I don't know.
It comes down to the individual, doesn't it, If you're using how
you use that psychology or how you use that tease of a of a
train station just to add another added element to the
psychological warfare that is ultra running.
But some race directors pride themselves in having a high DNF
rate because that means that their race is hard.
So it's not necessarily like it's not a victory for you to
have 100% success. I suppose I'm just, I'm not that
kind of testosterone. Toughest mother shit.
That's not me. I'd prefer to have 100% of
people finishing it and going loved it.
But. Honestly, I mean.
Does that mean that you on easier races?
Do I need to put on easier? Races, yeah, your one mile race,
do you get 100% success finishers?
Yes. So.
But my race, the tram, I don't. Is that because they got the
tram home? Yeah, yeah.
For for races like that. It's a really good point.
I don't, I don't know. No, I'm not.
As I say, I'm not really the yeah, I'm not that.
That's not how I'm wired, I don't think.
I don't want to make it too difficult for people.
I get that. There was, there's no faces out
there and people want harder and harder and harder.
And if it doesn't sound hard enough, then they won't enter
it. But that's OK.
Then you're not my audience, you know, I think it's very hard.
If you say about as well people finishing and then them saying
at the end, oh, I love that. I don't think many people say at
the end of an ultra straight away.
Oh, I love that. Well, I must admit that this the
first girl I Izzy, I'm finished. She was 22 years old, so this is
something else to talk about. The ultras used to be once you'd
kind of got your mouth and you're over 22.
I wasn't thinking of doing a 90K when I was 22.
Anyway, she pretty much put her hands on her thighs and meant
that was a really bad idea. She did a 9/08 or 9/06 even and
she was 8th overall. I mean, she was incredible.
What was the? Winning time.
So I, I had asked people what they thought they might do it
and just to kind of give me a bit of prior kind of knowledge
of how many people to expect at checkpoints at what time ish.
You know, I and I had the fastest group and you could even
say you're going to be with sub 8.
And we'd had a few people say they would do sub 8 and I'm
going, well, the fastest known time is over 9, but that was
unsupported. So I thought, well, maybe, but
he did a 748. Yeah, Yeah, he was brilliant.
I'm, I'm trying to admit. Oh, Jack Scott, Thank you.
Scott did brilliantly in an Yeah.
So 748 is incredible, which I don't know if it comparable.
It's hard to compare because obviously elevation is different
trails versus tarmac. So it's about 2/3 trailer to 1/3
tarmac. No huge climbs, you know you're
not, but there are very much some tough climbs in there.
I'm sure a lot of the runners would attest to.
And it was started off as a as a very hot day.
Midday was sweltering I and then the heavens opened later on and
some very cold runners at the end.
Not Jack and Izzy. I think they were finished
before the the rain started. But again, so depending on your
pace, you can have a very different race to others.
There was one couple that came in and they must have been
behind the cloud or behind the rain because they've they were
the only two that they were. They were kind of mid pack, but
they were dry. Where's everyone around them?
I've got wet and they must have just been in the sweet spot
behind the behind the church. Yeah, Yeah.
So no, it was great. I can't.
And so I was saying earlier that I, you know, I don't normally
put open races this early, but I have I'm 5 program way 2027,
first of May next year. I just I'd love it.
I would love it to go from strength to strength.
And that for me doesn't mean loads and loads of people.
I'm not, you know, I'm commercial in that I'm not a
running club and I'm, you know, I'm, this is my job, but I'm not
in this for all the big bucks. You know, I so it's not so much
that I want it to be successful. Loads of people entering.
I just want it to be a success in that more people, new people
and the people that have gone done it this year enjoyed it so
much they want to do it again. I'd love that, yeah.
And we know that these events can't run without the
volunteers. So not even just the Faith
Pilgrim way. If anyone wanted to volunteer at
any of your events, how do they get involved and how would they
get in touch with you? Well, I do have volunteers, but
most of my staff are paid from the very outset.
I, I looked at park run and I do volunteer for park run.
So I get the e-mail every week asking me to go and help and I
do, but I thought I don't want to be asking people every week
to come and help me. I'm, and especially as I say
I'm, I'm making a bit of money out of this.
Why should I ask people to come and do it for free?
I think that's morally wrong. I'm so from the outset I've
always paid an hourly rate to my staff.
Now there is always a charity that we are fundraising for.
And so I do get generally it's retired people that say do you
know what, I don't want to get paid?
Will you put mine towards the charity?
More than happy to do that. And that's very, very kind.
But I have teenagers as they're kind of their sat, their weekend
job to come along. I've got parents with parents
that come along with some of their children.
I have retired folk. I have all sorts of people from
just injured runners, people are at work for a little bit of
time. But yeah.
So if they, if anyone does want to come along, you do get paid.
It's above, it's above minimum wage and you get paid per, per
hour because if you're standing out in whatever the weather,
then why should I get paid and you don't just so that you go.
So hello at blastrunning.co.uk. So we'll be, we're always
looking for more event crew depending on the race, but we've
got a really nice core crew. And generally if, if you enjoy
being in the water station, then you get to go to the water
station. If you enjoy being on
registration, then you go on registration.
So it's, and it's nice that way people get to know their tasks
and their role and they get comfortable in it and they get
really good at it. And so that makes my life
easier. Susie who works with me, her,
her roles developed into kind of being my chief of staff.
And so she is very much who's organizing, how many people do
we need for this event? Where do they want to go and
give the comms to make sure that they know what they need to be
doing? Yeah, it's good fun.
But you get honestly get as much.
I really feel you get as much out as as working as event and
at an event as you do running it.
You really do. You just don't deserve the Dutch
donut at the end as much as the people that have just done 90K.
Or maybe you do. Food shouldn't be like that.
And next question I'm going to put a little twist on it is I
always say when somebody's clueing for me that I want them
to look after themselves because if they can't look after
themselves, they can't look after me.
So as a race director, how do you look after yourself when
you're race directing? How do you, how much do you eat?
What do you eat? How's that differ from when
you're running? Not that different actually in
that I porridge now generally a big pool of porridge before a
race. If I know I'm out for a long
day, porridge with some raisins. And it keeps me and that keeps
me going for a long time. And I, I suppose then and in a
way it's like ultra as well. It's just little, little and
often just top myself up. But I'm not out for that long
and I'm not expending the energy that runners are.
So no. But I do make, I do make sure
that I've got a good belly full of barrage in the morning, Yeah.
I guess it's different for a one mile race which all the fast
guys will be doing it in four or five minutes, absolutely, as
opposed to a six hour ultra different.
Yeah. So yes, we've got.
So for the six hour 1, we've got a tent.
And so they can, so that you're. Yeah.
So every basically the paths tend to be two 2 miles, but most
people only stop on the kind of clockwise, direct, anticlockwise
direction. And they've got their own, you
know, we've got tables set out, they've got their own space and
they can just go in and grab another gel or go and grab their
own water or what have you. And yeah, it is a really handy
way of being able to, to fuel yourself because I, I agree.
I think where I've gone wrong with ultras and marathons in the
past is fueling. I think.
I think you're right. It's the main thing when people
go wrong, they just don't take enough honour.
Taking off take maybe too much of the wrong stuff, or yeah, but
probably just not enough, Yeah. And next question is running
achievements and this could be anything that you want.
What is your biggest running achievement?
Well, I suppose I was. I was saying that, you know, I
injured my foot in 20 to the cat.
It was the cat ran in 2023. Yeah, I'm getting that right.
So I've had a really kind of weird few years of not really
running. I've had a couple of false
starts and I thought I was. So I started running again on
Christmas Eve. I went for a run on Christmas
Eve and thought, right here we go, oh, it's not sore.
Oh, I can go, oh, it's up to 5 miles.
Oh, it was up to 10. Ki thought, Oh, here we go and I
was really delighted and I have I've mentioned it on my own
personal Instagram, but I and to some people through for blast
running a the over Christmas, I noticed a bit of blood in my
pool and it was a very, very is it, isn't it situation really
didn't look like much, but I've had other people in my so my
hairdresser. I was going to see other people
in my life. I had bowel cancer last year and
he'd been very upfront with it with me and I thought, well,
he's about the same age as he's younger.
Actually. I'll I'm going to go and get
this checked out and off. I was sent for a colonoscopy and
in a February I they said that I had a 6 centimeter malignant
tumor in my colon. So it you could have knocked me
down with a feather. I was feeling fine, absolutely
fine. Not not I'll in the slightest as
I say was back running feeling good.
So 7 weeks ago I had surgery. So they they did a bowel
resection. So they take out the section of
bowel that had the tumor in it and they had to take out the
associated lymph nodes and the the blood supply.
And that then goes off for a biopsy.
And unfortunately they found some cancer in the lymph nodes.
So I'm currently mid chemo. So I started chemo 3 weeks ago
and I'm on my rest week this week.
So where I'm going with this? You're asking what my biggest
running achievement is? Well I ran the pennycook 10K
yesterday and I it's maybe not my biggest achievement but it
felt pretty major yesterday for me.
I am. The whole foot thing has gone
out the window. That wasn't sore at all.
I've forgotten that I had a foot injury.
It was more just a faced with a faced the big death question
this year. I've faced it, you know, I've
eyeballed it and it's been pretty scary.
And you know, I've hugged. I've got two children, they're 8
and 13. And yeah, it's not been a it's
been a bit of roller coaster. And so I felt well enough and I
just thought, well, why not? What?
But the bigger question is why did I choose penny cooked?
It's hard. I mean, either Have you done it?
No, the first smile. Oh, man, is that pill.
But it's tough. No, I chose it because Susie,
who works alongside me, is the race director.
She's a penny cook Harrier and she's always spoken about it.
And I thought, well, good as anyone to try and I didn't.
I was one of these people that signed up on the day, but I
think I've got a good, good reason for leaving it to the
last minute. But I was really, we're not very
good at saying we're proud of ourselves, but I was really
proud of myself yesterday. Just I didn't do it for the
time. I did think I'd like to go under
the hour. You know, in my heyday, I've
never gone sub 40, but I've kind of dabbled around that area.
But I just thought if I can go under an hour, that would be
lovely. If I could negative split, that
would be better. And that was more just to make
myself hold something back. I just thought, I don't want to
feel awful. So I start.
I was the very last start if person to start.
I started at the back. And it's actually a very nice
way to race. I would suggest that either of
you, you get a really good feel for just just slowly just
picking people off and getting your way through.
And so, yeah, cross the finish line.
I was just, I was just really satisfied, just really pleased.
And I just, yeah, it felt like a big achievement, Yeah.
Having unfortunately been in that situation myself, having
faced that horrible, yeah, am I going to be here tomorrow?
Question. Yeah.
Well done. Thank you, Mike.
Thank you for sharing it. Thank you.
I didn't know that you'd also been there.
So yeah, it's, it's, it's a bit, it's a bit of a scary place to
be and didn't see it coming. Did not see that curveball
coming this year. So, But yeah, here we go.
And yeah, I do. I think.
I'm sorry, Nicky. And good on you for being brave
enough to go and get that checked even when you had that
slight bit of doubt. Oh, is it is it not?
It just tells the story to everyone.
You felt absolutely fine, and thank goodness she did go and
get it checked. Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, I know. I just, I used to follow Bow
Babe, the Dame Deborah. I can't remember surname and
again, just such an inspiration and I get because I think we
always thought bowel cancer was for older generations and I'd or
there'd be much more blood or you know, it really or bigger
symptoms and it really was nothing.
I'm glad. So yeah, I'm really grateful to
her and the hairdresser for for them being open about it.
And I thought, well, if I can then be open about it.
I'm so looking back, there were symptoms, but very, very small
ones. And I suppose if there's any,
I'm, you know, so I'm, I'm 50 this year and our generation of
women would yes, it's great that menopause and perimenopause,
it's out there, it's everywhere. But I think the problem is that
we're being told that every symptom is perimenopause and so
urgency. Well, I thought it's just
because my estrogen levels were dropping a little bit of
bloating. Oh, it's Perry many belly.
You know, we give it a cute name.
You know, all these things just symptoms that I honestly had
just put down to menopause or perimenopause.
And I just I do worry that there because there's apparently 1000
perimenopause symptoms. I do worry that our generation,
because we're now talking about it, it's great that we're
talking about perimen, perimenopause, but it's also a
bit worrying that we are just allowing all those symptoms to
be put under this one barrier or one this one banner and actually
we're missing. I could have missed, I could
have missed it. And I'm stage 3, I'm stage 3,
you know, and I didn't see it. I didn't know because I, I
thought it was perimenopause. So.
And what I do for mobile camera videographer work in CT and
perform the CT colons. And the amount of people that we
know get through from the over 50s from the stand up tests of
anyone that's had no symptoms, not even notice the blood in the
poor, The amount of lives that we are now saving because of
that one test. And it's not the nicest thing to
do, but you know what? It could save your life.
It's not, yeah, yes, it's not pleasant, but it's really not
too bad. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
I know. I don't know if it, I don't know
if the age should be reduced because I wouldn't have got my
standard poo test through the door till the end of November
this year and I'd already got a six centimetre growth.
They have said it would have been growing for about 7 years.
I don't know. Yeah, yeah, that was the, that's
what they think. And, and who knows?
I've, I didn't know whether to mention this or not, but two
people in the last seven weeks have sent me an article with a
very, very small link on between endurance runners and bowel
cancer. They're not endurance runners
per SE, but endurance sports because it does put pressure on
your digestive system. We also are drinking lots of
sugary drinks and a lot of sugar.
I found it quite difficult reading those and I felt that
they were saying basically it's your own fault.
Now, of course, that's not what my friends were saying when they
sent me this, but it was really hard not to take that kind of
cause and effect straight line and go, oh God, I've caused
this. And that's why I was a little
bit I and I maybe feel like I maybe still shouldn't have
mentioned it, but because it was a tiny study, but they are
apparently seeing more and more links between the endurance side
and the effect on our on our digestive system.
Whether that it always leads to bowel cancer, who knows?
But or no, of course it doesn't because we're all, we're in this
world. How many people do you know
without cancer? There's many less than less
people than more people. And yeah, I felt quite defensive
when I read those articles. But maybe it is something we
should be talking about that. Yeah, I don't know, maybe eating
all the sugar and. Going for long runs, isn't it
good? I don't know, sorry.
It's maybe not the right message.
I'd I don't know how I feel about it.
Yeah, I think you've got to watch out with that sort of
thing because correlation doesn't equal causation.
And it. Could it could be that the sort
of people that do endurance sports know their body, know
when to go to a doctor because they know that something is
wrong, so they're more likely to get caught?
Completely with you, Mike. Absolutely.
And the good of exercise outweighs so many of the other.
It's just, it's just really hard when and maybe you went through
the same thing of, of not looking at the cause and effect
and trying to work out why not? Why me?
It's not. And oh, why me?
It's more just why? Because I don't fit the model
for. I don't eat a lot of red meat.
I'm not obese, I don't drink a lot of alcohol.
You know, all of that, all of those things.
So why? Yeah, but my consultant is just
saying, listen, it's just bad luck.
I don't know. But I suppose I just.
You don't fit the model because normally people that are
overweight, that don't do the exercise, they're getting found.
But yeah, as you say, it's bad luck you didn't fit the model
because. Yeah.
But one thing that I'll say, and I'm sure you'll agree with this,
is if anybody has got any doubts, any symptoms, go and see
your GP because they will not say you're wasting their time.
They would rather you get caught.
When I say caught, I mean diagnosed, yes.
Yes, absolutely. I would 100 percent, 100% say
that. Yeah.
And don't be embarrassed. Yeah.
We're not. We're ultra runners.
We talk about poo all the time, so.
Oh my God, I know, I know. Yeah, I wasn't.
I actually wasn't embarrassed. It was gorgeous.
Yeah, no, I wasn't. As a mother as well, you get
used to talking about poo quite a lot.
So there's an idea for your next race.
At the end, you've got to have poo tests.
Oh wow. Gosh.
Well, OK. Or or in the portal.
Get them to. Test the portaloos.
We know, we know that somebody who used this portaloo has got a
positive test. Which runner is it?
We can't do that. I am good.
Well, it's a very gentle not not quite as far as that.
I'm going to fundraise for the bow beam.
Do you know actually my second thoughts?
So when you get taken into the the room to get told and you get
handed a leaflet for the Western general, my first thought was
Oh, shit. And the second I think what
honestly, I think my second thought was I'm going to have to
run London Marathon dress as a Pooh.
I'm and I and I've actually entered, I've entered the ballot
and I've entered the Bow Babe ballot and I will.
I hope to run. I hope to run London Marathon.
Dress as a poo next year. There you go.
You heard it here first. You heard it here first.
And for the 5 Pilgrim way in your Windows bag, you will get a
full emoji. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. Well, how do we bring this back
then, after that bombshell? For to lose, I don't know, I
know I'm just, I just know. Thank you for letting me talk
about it. I'm trying to keep things as
normal as possible for the family but also for my business
and just keep keeping on going, you know?
I couldn't. So I didn't make it to 20 along
the 4th this year I was actually one day post surgery, but up
until surgery I was feeling fine.
So the races on a Saturday, I marked the course on Thursday
and I had my surgery on the Friday.
So I very much felt part of it. I just couldn't be there on race
day. And I've got this, as I say,
because we've got this wonderful core team of people that do the
same jobs every year at different events.
I had complete faith in them that it would it would be OK.
It was difficult. It was really difficult not
being there, but there was actually something very nice
about watching it online develop in people's posts.
And no, it was great. It was really good.
So yeah, I've just, yeah, business as usual is what I'm
trying to just portray to my family, to my B boys as well.
That's partly what I did yesterday.
Mum is fine, you know. Yeah.
And. We wanted to thank you again,
Kat, for talking about it because there'll be a lot of
runners and friends out there that will be wondering how
you're doing. But I'm afraid to send that
message in case they overstep their mark and oh, it's, it's
your business, you know, and no people will appreciate you
talking about it. Yeah, yeah.
Well, thanks, Nikki. Yeah.
I don't know what the next three rounds will feel like.
Chemo's not very nice, but it's not.
Do you know what I feel like as ultra runners we have, I feel
like psychologically we're pretty good.
We're pretty well set up for, for this kind of thing where
I've felt worse on a run and, and I'm in it for the long game.
And it's like, if we're quite good at setting a goal in the
future, if I could at just mapping out, I can do this bit
and then this bit and this bit. And there's checkpoints along
the way. I get a wee break every two
weeks. And I I it might be a funny way
to think about it, but I do think my endurance training has
really helped, not just physically, but mentally as
well. Physically, it's one of the best
things you can do. It helps you recover.
And yeah, it's you. I don't even know what I'm
saying here. Yeah, the the best thing that
you can do for your body is be fit and healthy.
You're saying you don't fit the model, but that's because most
people aren't fit and healthy and that's why they struggle so
much. So hopefully you won't struggle
because you are in the best place possible.
Yeah. Thanks, Mike.
Yeah, that's I hope as well. Yeah, right.
We must. We can't finish on a cancer
chat. Come on.
Oh no, we've still got. We've still got a few.
Questions. So following on from.
You say why me and things like that?
Why do you run? Why do I run I I mean, it's just
it's the I think you know, you hear it from so many people.
I think this answer, but it is where I feel free.
You know, it is, it's the time that I don't have my phone on,
but I do have my phone because I like, I quite like a podcast,
but I I have set my phone up that I don't get text messages
and my watch doesn't interrupt me.
It is just a really nice time just to yeah, just to chip, just
to kind of zone out. And and again, I hear all the
time in other podcasts. It's the time that you think
most, isn't it? And just, yeah, it's just that
kind of freedom of mind as well as well as say, a body.
Yeah, yeah. Just love it.
And the time that you think the most, what is it you're thinking
about? Oh, races all the time, always
think. Race directing, race directing
or doing the race. Currently, because I'm not I, I
still identify as a runner, but I am, I feel I'm very out of the
game at the moment. I know I took part yesterday,
but I, I, I don't, I, I've not got anything that I am even
targeting because I haven't been able to, you know, so even to
run 10K pain free yesterday, let alone, you know, chemo and all
of that was, was amazing because that's not happened for three
years, three years. That's a long time.
So I've not got any. Well, I know of our, I've
entered the ballot for London Marathon, but apart from that,
I've not got any hopes and dreams for races at the moment.
I just want to run pain free and do my little mini triathlons
every week. That's it.
So. By the way.
Oh, I'm loving it. I'm loving it.
But no, I'm always thinking up new events.
Always thinking up new events, and there's just not enough time
in the calendar to do them all. Yeah.
I just have a good idea of the mini triathlon.
I think that's still fabulous that you do that every Monday.
It's brilliant. And it doesn't take, you know,
it's, I mean, there's a joy of being self-employed.
I can just do that. But it's, you know, they are
mini. So it's an hour and a half or
so. I or tomorrow there's a really
nice group at Cramond of they're officially jog Scotland, but
it's just a nice group of pals now who run at a very gentle
pace. So that's been a really nice
gentle start back to running. So I do my, I do what?
That's why I had the confidence to do the Pennycook 10K because
last Monday I had run 5 1/2 miles with them pain free.
And I thought, oh, actually, I know, you know, And that was a
real confidence booster that I thought even though it was a
very kind of 12 minute mile pace, I thought, well, I can do
it. I can do a 12 minute mile 10K no
bother. I, I know I'll be able to do
this. So that was a real confidence
booster. So yeah.
So yeah, there will be mini triathlon starts very gently,
but I do enjoy it. How do you fit in the logistic
of swimming? Into that, so I say, so I cycle
to the pool. Ah.
So I know that. So again, I'm not doing it in
the right way or the right order because you're meant to start.
It's swim, cycle, run, isn't it? Normally I am generally run,
cycle, swim, cycle, but that's how I do it.
Yeah, that's so. Cool, totally inspired that.
Oh, good, good because it's it's such a nice, it's such an easy
way in a sense of cross of cross training.
So I know that at least once a week.
I've I have swum once a week and I've cycled once a week and it's
just it's good. It's good.
And So what is coming up next for Blast?
What's next on the Blast calendar?
It's a busy time of year, so we've got well, so we've got
Meadows race on Tuesday. So we used to have a Meadows
race every God. Well actually it used to be
every week, but a few years ago changed that to every month.
And actually this year it's once we just got 6.
It's a Tuesday. It's quite niche, 12:45 on a
Tuesday lunchtime, but we've got 80 people signed up for this
Tuesday. It's the cherry blossom 5K.
I'm hoping that the cherry blossom at the Meadows is still
out. It's still out in my garden.
I got it wrong last year. I went too early.
I was April and it hadn't actually come out yet.
So I looked at back at my photos and it was still in bloom this
time two years ago. So I'm really hoping it feels
like the blossom came out earlier this year.
So it's a little bit of A and so that's, that's on Tuesday.
And then we've got the, my name's Doddie 5K10K in June, on
the 7th of June. And we've got the Sunset Running
Festival on the 20th of June. So that's, yeah, we've got,
yeah, we've got nearly 600 for that one so far.
So it's a marathon, It's a marathon, it's a qualifying
marathon. It's a completely flat course.
You've got an aid station every two miles, a marshals and
supporters all along the route and you can use it as it's
Scottish athletic doesn't qualified if you can use it as
your time qualifier for one of the majors.
So you know, so if a big major marathon isn't your thing or
you're trying to get into one, it is it's it's a nice one to do
It depends if you enjoy running in the evening because it's it
does start it starts at 3. No, sorry.
That's for the 1st wave. If you think you're going to
take over 5 hours for your marathon, you start at three.
It starts at 5:00 in the evening.
Yeah. Yeah.
So it is a sunset festival. The first year I put it on, I
actually started at sunset and I was there till 1:00 in the
morning, in the morning. And there are no lights in the
prom. So if, you know, I learn things
every year. So yeah, you start at 5:00,
which isn't for everyone, but I quite enjoy running in the
evening. So it's just it's yeah.
It's just I know that we're all conditioned to run at 9:00 or
10:00 for races, but there's something quite nice about
starting at night. Yeah.
So yeah, that's the next ones. And then I generally, I try not
to have races during my kids summer holidays.
So I've got a couple here and there and I'm timing the North
Berwick race and I'm timing a few other hill races during
summer, but I don't generally put my own ones on until end of
August again. Yeah.
And then it's Water of Leith obviously end of September.
But we do have a new one. I was asked by the veterans in
North Berwick to help them put on.
We've called it breaking the laws and it's a 30K route and I
think it'd be really good. You can, it can be really.
So it's 30 kilometres, You've got North Berwick Law and
Traprane Law and in between you've got the John your way and
I, I think it'll be fabulous. I'm so, yeah.
If that sounds good to you, then come along.
That sounds like a great event. I think.
I think it would be really lovely.
Are you starting by running up the hills?
We were going to, we were going to, but actually the Countryside
trusts, we had to go along to a safety Action Group for that
with E Lothian and they were really.
So the Countryside Office service is obviously very keen
on path erosion, you know, keeping that to a minimum.
And she was quite keen if if we started all the runners going up
North Berwick Law, it would spread out too much and the
paths just couldn't cope. So actually I think it's a great
idea. We're going to start on the
flatter section. So you've got John Muir wave
flat section 1st 10K. You can either pass the baton,
not a metaphorical baton to your team, you're next in your team
or carry on yourself. And then you've got Traprane Law
and then you're going back, back along John your way, and then
you finish with North Berwick Law.
So it should be good, should be really good.
So it's September the 13th and it's honouring the Scottish
Commando Unit. Yeah.
And and what what big achievement did the Scottish
Commando unit have? Well, did you watch the
programme? Oh God, it's set out in the
desert. Oh, I've told you my memories.
I am going to. I am definitely am
perimenopausal. I forget everything.
Commando SESSES Commando. Did you watch it SES?
Who Dale's wins. Is it that one or was set out in
the desert? They're basically a commander,
you know. Oh, Jerry Tiger is my 85 year
old friend who lives in North Berwick.
He is an ex Marine and he will kill me for not having all the
facts and figures at my fingertips.
But Blair, Blair, Blair, Blair someone.
It was one of the original Scottish commandos and they wore
hackles were black hackles in their in their berries.
And they were pretty much a subterfuge unit that during
World War 2 ran a so they were the government knew about them,
but they didn't really exist. And it's all about they bombed
different in AAM, different airports or they bought, you
know, they, they were very key. They were just Mad Men
basically, who were a brave and incredible soldiers and would
just go out and cause chaos in the for the for the enemy.
I but IA lot of the training was with backpacks and we're not
asking anyone to run with backpacks, but it's, it's just
honouring that unit. Yes, and there's a, there's
quite a strong, a commando and a veteran unit in North Berwick
and they just asked if Bash Running could get involved.
So we're raising money for the Scottish Veterans Housing, which
is a unit at the bottom of the Royal Mile which houses veterans
who have fallen on hard times either psychologically or
financially and need somewhere to stay.
And they've got, I think it's up to, I think it's up to 100 beds.
There's up to 60 beds there. It's a, it's a, it's a hostel
for them or more than a hostel somewhere that a place to call
home for a while while they need it when they're going through
that hard time. So the Scottish Veterans
residence, it's who, who it's for.
Yeah, it would be great. And the, I think the person's
name that you were trying to remember was Lieutenant Robert
Blair Hadi Main. Yes, Blair Main, thank you very
much. That's it.
And what's the TV program? Was it SES?
Who dares? I don't know that that's a
Wikipedia article about the actual.
The actual commando is not the TV programme about the.
Command, yes, yes, yeah. But well, it's I quite enjoyed
the TV programme as well, but but I put the two together and
thought, ah, that I've watched that TV programme.
It's really good. Yeah.
So it's honouring the Scottish Commander unit.
But yes, you don't have, you don't have to.
You don't have to wear a big backpack.
Take part. So you might have answered this
question already with the London Marathon, but what would be your
dream race, or any race on the bucket list if you could do 1?
It is a really tough one because I, as I say, I'm not really
feeling like, don't feel like a runner at the moment.
I'm, I, I've done London 6 times and I love it.
One of those was virtual. 2020 was virtual.
I, I've, I, I started London in yeah, 22,000 and three, 2014 and
five. And then I did it in 1920 and
21. I think that's right.
And I've ticked off another couple of the majors, but I
didn't when I started running there wasn't Abbott, there
wasn't the big majors when we London.
And when I did London and Chicago back in 2004, there
wasn't a thing called the the majors.
So I've done a three of them, Chicago, Boston and London.
Do I have aspirations? I don't know, to go and do the
others? Maybe, Maybe.
I told myself I wasn't going to do marathons till I was in my
50s again. I just wanted to get away from
the pace watching and the clock watching and just to try and
find the love of running again, which I did through the ultras.
I did find the love of it again. But I don't actually have an
answer to that question. I don't, I don't know, I think I
just want to run pain free for a while and just see where it
takes me. Yeah, sorry.
Another question that might be difficult to answer.
It's usually difficult to ask, is there anybody that you would
love to run with, either fictional reel alive or not?
It is a really difficult 1 and I think the answer, as cheesy as
it is, but I mean it is, is my children.
I get real joy that I've really tried my hardest not to be a
pushy parent. And you know, they've grown up
with coming to races and they've grown up with me running.
And one of my proudest moments was a wee boy when he was 2 and
I put trainers on and he said mummy running.
I was like, excellent, you think me, you know, you now think
trainers mummy running. Love it, job done.
But actually my 13 year old is now showing a little, a few
signs of actually mum, I think I might go out for a run.
I feel like I need to let off some steam and I'm a wee boy is
he's a little sprinter. But I think actually at some
point being able to run with them as a wee family would be
amazing. With my husband shuffling on the
back. Yeah, so sorry.
I think, yeah, I know it's cheesy, but that's really a
weird one. And.
Have. You got anything booked for
yourself later on in the year or anything like that running wise?
Have you pre empted anything apart from I think you will be
doing London Marks and I've got a gut feeling to.
Get into that. I think you might not recognize
me peering out between two holes and a big pile of boots.
But no, Because, like, literally, I started on
Christmas Eve. Yeah, I'm on the 13th of
February. I was diagnosed with cancer.
I haven't actually really even believed that I'm back running
again. Yeah, I've literally I have done
maybe like my mini triathlon and maybe do 1-2 runs a week.
So I'm yeah, I'm just holding my breath.
I'm holding my breath on it. I don't know.
I don't I don't even know what
star to reach for. I don't even know if Path
marathon is too far to reach at the moment and that's more with
the foot. I haven't pushed it that far
yet. 10K has been has been my test yesterday and it went well.
My legs are OK. Thank you Jill Steven for all
that physio or single leg workout during the last three
years. I seriously think it has helped
a lot. Yeah.
But just keep on building on it and so to speak running with
that, Yes, yes. Thank you our.
Guest on the last episode was Sophie Little Fair and we have
been getting the guests to ask the next guest a question.
Right. Sophie's question to you was
what is your secret weapon main as relentless optimism?
Yeah, that's pretty good actually.
I'm, I'm quite a cop puff fool kind of girl as well.
I would say yeah, I would go with that.
But also a wee bit of I'm not stubborn.
It's not that I'm, I'm resilient.
I'm going to go with resilience. I'm and it's not to say I don't
get knocked down, but I do get back up again and yeah, I always
get back up again. So yeah, resilience, I would
say, yeah. And the last question unless
Nikki's got anything else is and given given our conversation
just a minute ago, answers may have changed recently.
OK, have you ever and interpret this how you will?
Have you ever felt that you've run until you're done?
Yeah, when? Yeah, because I think, yeah,
sorry, I'm trying to work out to say this.
I think, I think I would like I say, although I say I'm
resilient and I have enjoyed ultra running.
I think everyone's got a balance where there's enjoyment versus
enjoyment challenge and then just tip.
It can be tipped too far the wrong way.
And I think I'd always thought, yeah, I could do the West
Highland way, but having done cataran, but actually it was the
the Lochaber 80 which finishes in Loch leaving and I finished
in the dark coming down that the descent into locally and can
locally even in the dark. And it will, it will dusk, I
suppose. And they checked my, you know,
they check your bag in the morning for all your safety kits
and they add my torch. My head torch had been checked,
but it must have been stayed on in my bag all day.
So I didn't have a head torch. So I was coming down holding my
phone, going over tree roots and that sort of thing.
And it just, and it made me just think and I didn't feel unsafe
as in I'm in the dark and the, the, the bogeyman's going to
come out and get me or what have you.
It's not that side of things. It's more just, do you know
what? I don't think I'm having much
fun here. And I don't know if I want to do
a race that goes through the night and by myself and over
tree roots and all the hallucinations that you hear of.
And actually, I, I think I've found my balance so fun.
So I would have gone up if, and I might still, I don't know,
because I just don't know how I'm a football cope.
I, I did think I'd go up to 100K and I think that's where my
personal balance would be struck of OK, I've pushed myself
enough. I can do it.
But actually I've still enjoy, enjoyed it.
And I think that sweet spot is different for everyone, isn't
it? Because whatever you've done,
someone's gone longer, harder, quicker.
Done it three times, mate. You know, there's, there's,
there's always someone. So it has to be about your own
challenge. And so I would love so you're
actually saying about what would there be that one thing?
I would love to think that I could get fit enough and
physically resilient enough to get back to ultras because they
I really do enjoy it, but I just don't know if it'll happen or
not. Yeah.
And if it doesn't, I'm OK. I actually am.
I've done loads. I've run my wee socks off.
I am. I'm grand.
If I just have to stick with five KS, 10 KS, honestly, I'm
fine. Yeah, as long as it can be
trail. I don't.
I'm not really a big fan of the road stuff.
Unless you're racer acting. Yes, right.
That's the end of our question, Sir.
Cat, thank you. Thank you for coming on.
Thank you for being open about what what we discussed tonight.
Thank you, Nikki for being Nikki.
And that's it for me. Thanks for coming on, Kat.
Oh guys, you've been a real pleasure to chat to you, thank
you so much.