Hello and welcome to another episode of Run Till You're Done.
This week's guest we have a runner who has achieved enormous
feats from an epic FKT to win in one of the Spain races on a
comeback from an injury. I can't wait for this
conversation. Welcome to the show, Sophie
Littlefair. Thanks for having me.
Welcome Sophie and how we start the podcast every time.
A question we always ask is how did you get into running?
So I ran in my teenage years, so long distance for a teenager, so
like 3000 meters on the track and cross country.
I did that till I was about 17 or 18 I think.
I really loved it, but I feel like as a teenager I got a lot
of pressure, especially from my school, and it kind of put me
off. So as soon as I could, I sort of
just drifted out of it. And then I don't know, nearly 20
years passed before I picked up my running shoes again.
I met my now husband in 2013 and he was a cyclist and a indoor
climber. We, we lived in London at the
time, so it's not quite as exciting.
But I just started commuting to work and climbing with him.
And eventually I was like, oh, I think, I think I'm going to
start running again. And yeah, just started running
around my local park and it escalated fast.
That was in about what, 281718? So as we mentioned in the
introduction there, you've got an FKT, you've done many multi
day events. But I would imagine the, unless
I could be wrong here, did you, how did that progress from
picking up those running shoes again to going up to full scale
ultras? Did you do shorter events or
just build? Not really.
It's like couch to ultra really. I mean I did a few like local 10
KS around like the Olympic Village when I was still in
London and I did I think maybe two half marathons.
So one in Southampton weirdly and then one in Hackney, which I
believe is the most expensive half marathon in the UK.
But my sister and her partner had done some ultras, so they've
made it look fun. So I just sort of, yeah, I'd
done 1/2 marathon and then I did a 50K.
Now at 1st, 50K is still the most painful ultra I've ever
done. It was called the Waterway 30
and it's, it's not a very inspiring course.
It's basically in this place near this place called Retford.
It's quite flat and it's just around some canals.
And the sort of overriding feature is this sort of power
station in the middle of it. You're just running around that
for, you know, 5 or 6 hours. Actually, it was probably longer
than that back then, but I, you know, I didn't have any hills
where I lived and it seemed like a good entry level beginner's
ultra. And it definitely was that the
chap that runs it, I, I think his race company is called
Forever on the Roam and he's a lovely guy and he does a lot of
ultras around there. I think he's actually done the
spine and a bunch of bigger races too.
So it was a really good entry into ultra distance running.
And did you have no, sorry mate, did you have no interest in the
marathon distance then at all? So I had a London Marathon place
for 20/19 and obviously that didn't happen.
It was cancelled that year. I did do my London Marathon just
by myself because I've done all the training basically.
But yeah, I just, I don't know, the big races are that many
people I do find quite overwhelming.
So I much prefer the kind of smaller events where I can just
kind of be a little bit more on my own.
Yeah, maybe one day. They're hard, they're hot.
No Rd. marathons. Yeah, I'm like beyond that, see
the crowds. I'm not a crowd fan and I hear
exactly where you're coming from.
The last Rd. event that I'd done was 30,000 people or something
like that. And I was just like, no, this is
not for me. And like yourself on the trails.
So where you go? And you mentioned earlier about
climbing. Do you still do climbing?
Not really my my poor husband's lost his B low partner a little
bit here and there but to be honest I've really lost my head
like I used to. I wouldn't say I was ever
fearless but I didn't really have an issue with heights and
happily lead lead sport routes but I just can't do it anymore.
Sometimes even seconding gives me the heebie jeebie, so I tend
to avoid it unless we can get some nice low edges, which is
good round here because there are quite a lot of low edges.
I was just wondering if it's good like cross training.
It's obviously upper body, but yeah, it would be the equivalent
of strength work I'm guessing. Yeah, I think it probably would
be. And especially because you move,
the movements are so different, aren't they?
You're not just doing the same thing over and over again.
But yeah, I, I, I don't dedicate as much time to it as I should.
There's too many fun things to do, isn't there?
Well, I, I find a lot of the sort of fun things are going out
in the trails where you might need a head for heights, which
you're saying climbing. Have you lost that fear running
downhill? Is that the same sort of fear
that you're like, I'm sailing down a Cliff?
No, I definitely don't feel the same level of anxiety doing
that. Absolutely not.
The anxiety that I get running downhill really fast is that I'm
going to break something again. I'm working on that.
But yeah, doing things like crib gock or sort of low level
scrambles I still find quite difficult.
But you know, you make yourself do it.
And Nikki mentioned FKTS. Yeah, you've got or had, I don't
know. I'm sure you're about to tell us
the FKT for the Scottish Trail. Yeah, I still think I still have
it. No one told me otherwise.
I don't know. So I'm let's say you do have it.
Let's go with that. What is the Scottish Trail and
what was the FKT or is the FKT? So the Scottish National Trail
is basically a link up of a lot of the National trails trails in
Scotland. And it was devised by a outdoor
broadcaster called Cameron Mcneish.
I don't know a great deal about him, but you know, he, he did
ATV programme I think on it and he's written a book and it
basically goes from Kurt Yetham to the Kate Wrath.
And it takes in, I'm probably going to miss some here, but the
Southern Uplands way, the Grand, the sort of Union Canal, a bit
of the West Island, right, The West Island way, the Rob Roy
Way, Cape Wrath. I think there are a few other
little ones in there. And yeah, I mean, it's what I
think it says. It's about 800 kilometres, but
it's definitely, no, not 800 kilometres, no, 800 kilometres,
No, I've got that wrong, sorry. 580 kilometres, Yeah, No, I'm
not sure. Hang on.
No. It is.
It is 900. It is nearly 900 kilometres.
I'm getting my miles and kilometres mixed up.
Sorry. You were right, it's 864
kilometres. 864 kilometres, but it is definitely closer to 900
when you're actually doing it. As I thought I was overselling
it, then it's but no, it's a, it's nearly 900 kilometres, very
mixed terrain. So you've got the kind of
rolling hills of the Southern Uplands Way, about 60 or 70
kilometres of Canal Pass in one go.
It was quite the testing day. And then, yeah, you you end up
in the the boggy joy of Cape Wrath.
I'm stunned to silence. I thought.
I still can't believe I did it to be honest.
Well, there's so many questions in.
The first one that comes to my mind is why out?
Of all. The NK TS in this country, you
could have packed. That sounds like one of the
hardest ones, but genuinely that.
I mean, what an achievement. So what brought your attention
to that one? It's a bit silly really.
So I did the Dragons back and that's that was the length of
Wales and I did the Northern Traverse which crossed England
and I don't remember who it was, but somebody made a joke that I
had to do Scotland next. And this was when I was on in
the car on the way home from the Northern Traverse.
So there was obviously race across Scotland, but that felt a
little bit too similar. So I just googled what there was
and it came up and I pretended for about 6 months that I was
just thinking about it. But I definitely made the
decision in the car that I was definitely going to have a go at
it before I'd even washed my clothes.
Yes. So really, yeah, it's just a
joke. So was it supported?
Yes, it was supported. So the previous, I mean, he's
still the record holder because he did it self supported.
A guy called Matt Gervin. He he had done it self
supported. And I, I'm Denard for a long
time about whether I would do it in that way.
But actually I decided that I prefer to do it with full
support. And my husband came with me and
a friend joined me for four of the days.
Because, you know, it's more fun, isn't it, if there's more
people? I've just looked up Matt Gervin
has the self supported record for 13 days and 19 hours and
you'll be delighted to know you have still got the supported.
Record. Of 11 days, 20 hours and 22
minutes there. We go, Yeah.
Well, well done. Thank you.
Yeah, I mean, Matt was amazing. Like, I messaged him early on
and he just gave me all his planning documents and, and
actually he just coincidentally had been doing was driving the
North Coast 500 with his parents the week I was doing it.
So he left me a note at Kate Wrath and a bottle of whiskey
for when I finished. He's a He's a gent.
And when you got to the finish, did you drink it?
I did not. It's rare for me to reach my
limits, but I tell you what, 5 kilometres from the end I was, I
really was like at at my limits and my, my husband had come out
onto Kate Wrath to meet me. And I, I can't remember when it
was, but months before we've been out running around on in
the Lake District. And I said to him, don't you
just wish this would never end? And he's not dedicated a runner
as me. And he was like, absolutely not
completely miserable. And then at this moment, at 2:00
AM on Kate Wrath, he was like, Sophie, don't you just wish it
would never end? He had a little bit of Prosecco
in his race fest as well. But I didn't drink that either.
But no, I got there at 2:00 AM. There's no, I don't know if
we've been up there. There's no running water or
electricity. So there were some candles set
up in the in the cafe so I could get out of my boggy clothes.
And then I just sort of crawled into the bunkhouse bed, a little
bit shell shocked to be honest. And when you finished at that
point, was it, how did that? Was it quite anticlimactic?
Because there's no way you know finishing archies and you know
it should FKT and when you reach that point you're done.
Yeah, it was a little bit, but it as well because you can't
even get to the lighthouse. It it there's just a fence.
So I I was just trying to get in the fence and my husband was
like Sophie, that's it you're you're done now.
Just not. But I think because I'd had that
whole day, that whole final day by myself, because he had to
drive round to get to Cape Wrath and there's only like one or two
ferries across. So I'd had 90 kilometres all on
my own in some quite remote terrain.
And I was really just a little bit frightened to be honest.
So I was so sort of anxious and, and nervous about this final day
that when I finally got there, I just kind of was like, oh, I
don't, I don't really feel anything.
Definitely took a few days for it to sink in.
And you must have had to have had like really good navigation
skills for that as well, because Cape Wrath is like sort of all
isn't the what how did And that sounds daft.
I feel stupid actually asking this, but did you have the old
school map and compass or did you have a GPX?
I had a GPXI mean I had a map and compass with me as well.
I had a a handheld device, Garmin, Garmin watch, my phone
and a map of compass. I won't take any risks out
there. So but mostly I now have done my
on my phone, on my watch. And then it does get a little
bit weird over Kate Rath and it was completely dark.
So you're sort of just there's nothing.
You just sort of walk in a direction and hope for the best.
But I could see once I was out, can't have been more than about
5K from the end. And I really was like, batteries
were running out of things. I'd just like fallen almost head
first in a bog, like my whole arm and pole are getting in up
to here. And thankfully I stopped myself.
So I was a little bit like, oh God, I really just need to get
this done. And I could see his head torch
blinking, which definitely kind of, you know, put me a bit more
at ease. I had one fleeting moment that
it might not be him because I did have an open tracking
tracker. But I just kind of thought,
well, if somebody's come all this way, there we go.
I, I, I did a walk many, many years ago with a friend.
We started in Sky and we're going down to Fort Augusta I
think it was and then over to Aberdeen and somewhere in
between Sky and Fort Augustus obviously nears a Cape Rath Ish
territory. There was a, an RAF jet came
flying over the top of us and we lost the GPS.
So it's like just as well we had the map and compass.
It just shows things like that. Can't go wrong.
When we uploaded the GPS to Garmin Sava, whatever it was
afterwards, it showed us that we were suddenly down at Prestwick
Airport and then a couple of seconds later we were back
again. So there's obviously something
in the jet that jammed the GPS. So it just shows you that.
Don't rely on that sort of thing, yeah.
No, I mean, absolutely not. And that's, that's madness,
isn't it? But no, look, I'm not brilliant
with a map and compass, but I, if I know, I know where I am on
the trail and on the map so I can get myself out of it.
You know, I'm, I'm not brilliant.
I should do more practice with a map and compass.
But you know, I did make sure that I was covered just in case.
And I also had the right network for northern Scotland.
So my phone actually worked the whole time, which is always
good. I think I'm probably not that
great with map and compass either, but I know I know how to
make the map go the right way up because the compass don't let
you do that. And as long as you know where
you are on Israel, then you can find where you're going.
So. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly. I have no map and compass
knowledge. I really need to go and do some
NAV classes or something because like because a lot of Cape Wrath
it's pathless is it not? Yeah.
You know, I think it's, it is, but you sort of there's a
natural direction. So it does feel, I'm not ever
going to say it straightforward because it really isn't.
But it it there is a a natural direction that you will move in.
Yeah, because it follows the valleys through.
So I don't think there's any summits or maybe 1 like 300m
summit or something on the whole route.
So you really are following, you know, the the line of least
resistance. Yeah.
I assume it's old drovers roads or something like that or it's.
Just there's a lot of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So moving on from FKTS, you do have an incredible history of
completing the full winter Spain.
You mentioned Dragons back and northern traverse as well.
Do you have a favorite event like a multi day event?
The why? Yeah, I mean, they're all
brilliant events in their own right.
And, you know, sadly Aria's not there anymore, but you know,
incredibly well organised events there.
And really they they are kind of life changing to be honest.
So, so many of the people I run with on a day-to-day basis I've
met through those events. My favorite is the spine though.
I think I like the sort of boggy, Heather beaten paths of
the Pennine Way, and it's definitely not to everybody's
taste, but I really like that kind of barren beauty of it.
A lot of our previous guests have said a similar thing.
It's like they they seem to go for that when when I've been
sort of growing up in ultras, it's been W Allen ways that's
the thing. And I've kind of grown into
other events. They're all fantastic, they've
all got their each individual thing.
Why do you think people get drawn to the Penang way?
Well, it's a good question. I mean, I'm not sure I mean it.
I think it the sort of, again, the natural direction of it.
It feels those kind of point to points.
I, I find that really enjoyable. It feels like a real journey and
an adventure when you're doing it, especially in the winter.
And I don't know, there's a lot of history with the Pennine
Ways, isn't there? Of, of which I do not claim to
be in any kind of expert. You've had guests that are.
So I'm not, I'm not going to go down that far.
But yeah, just it's, no, it's, it's, it's, it's going to be a
real challenge for anybody. And you can almost do it in
however which way you want. It's quite flexible.
You do it in one go, you can do it over years, whatever suits
you. So you know, I think it's got
something for everyone. If you like bogs, you really
need to like bogs and flagstones and flagstones.
I see flagstones. See I like bogs, but I'm
starting to just get over them not quite terrifying me anymore.
Like I'm a bit more comfortable about going through them because
when I started going through them I was terrified it would
suck me into the abyss and I would never be seen again.
Yeah, you never know. The description of the the
flagstones on the pen and wave makes me think of the It's one
of the Lord of the Rings films where they're they're going over
a bog and all the ghosts are coming up from the bog.
It's the. Dead Marshes.
Yeah. You're speaking my language with
The Lord of the Rings. The second film is my favorite
because all they do is run. You mentioned going off on a
tangent as we have done so far. Have you had any wild
hallucinations on any of your multi days or your FKT even?
I didn't know my FKT because I did it as a stage, stages, so I
had set distances and the only hallucinations I've had are on
the spine. So it really did take days to
get there. And that was in Kielder Forest,
and it was like, they're all kind of like logging roads, so
there's lots of logs on the side of the road.
So I had sort of like people, sort of dead people, but not
really dead people. And then there were these sort
of animatronic birds dancing around.
But the weirdest 1 is during that time I had auditory
hallucinations, so it felt like I was being followed around by
the band Queen, and they weren't really doing Queen songs.
It just sounded like Queen but for ages, but no one else could
hear it. I was with them, this girl
called Kendra and a guy called Matt, and they assured me that
none of these things were there. So yeah.
So really important question, what is the best cover song that
Queen has done in your head? Oh God, I wish I could answer
that. It was just sort of nonsense
Queen songs. But yeah, really strange.
But that's the only time I've ever had them.
I think it takes I'm quite good with sleep deprivation and I did
sleep on the spine. So yeah, it I think that was
probably night, night 4. So yeah, took a while.
And do you use caffeine to stay awake for that length of time
or? Anything, yeah, I, I, I do, I, I
don't drink caffeine day-to-day, actually.
So it's only ever in events I and not like religiously, but
it, it definitely helps if I'm sort of getting flagging a
little bit. But then I find just eating
anything helps. It seems to be the answer to
everything is to just eat more. You know you're tired, something
hurts, you know you're drifting. Just keep eating.
I think exactly the same have said it to many people so.
Yeah. Totally agree.
Right? Obviously advice that a coach
would give you. Do you have a coach?
Have you been coached? Yeah, I have been coached and I
sort, I'm sort of coached now. So before I did Dragons back, I
signed up with Jen Scotney originally.
I actually contacted Marcus because I didn't know that Jen
was a coach because of his pedigree basically at the
Dragon's back and I really had no business signing up for it.
I did not have the skill set to do that race when I signed up
for it. But he put me, he said actually
my wife's just started coaching. I think you would suit her
really well. So I was coached by Jen for
three years. So she got me through the
Scottish National Trail and then after that.
So I guess that was early, no, mid 2023, yeah, I, I then was
uncoached. This is when all my injuries
began. Not because of a coach or not
because of a coach. It was just like a, a
combination of factors really. And right now I am when I second
the second bone injury in, I contacted a a woman that lives
locally who has a special, special interest in women of
perimenopausal, menopausal age to look at strength work, a bit
more targeted strength work. She in the past has been a run
coach, so she has now been writing me plans.
So it's sort of, I see her once a week for weightlifting and we
talk about how my running's going.
So yeah, she's been setting, setting my program mostly.
It started because I wanted some support back from another bone
injury. So she made sure she kept me on
straight and narrow. Narrow, because otherwise my
tendency is to do too much too soon.
Was that a slip there? The marrow bone.
Yeah, I know, not purposely. What were the bone injuries if
you don't mind just asking? Yeah, so I had so after the
Scottish National Trail, I had a femoral edema in my right thigh.
So, but it was quite severe. And then I, I did offload it and
do the strength work, but I just didn't take the right amount of
time, did the spine. And then after that, in the sort
of excitement of finishing that did not recover properly.
Same injury again. Yeah.
And then after that stress, a fracture, a proper fracture in
my fibula, in my left fibula. So yeah, it's been an ongoing
ordeal. Is overuse injury or do you
think it could be something else?
Dietary or anything? I think it's a combination of
all of it actually and and also history.
So I ran a lot as a kid. And what's that, 90s?
I don't think we may be, and this is no shame, you know, my
parents, but they didn't know what to feed me to make sure I
was, you know, fully filled, I guess.
And neither did I. It's not something that we even
talked about at that age. It's like you're 15 and you go
to the track like you, you just do that and you might have a few
sweets afterwards or something. So I think there is probably,
I've, I've seen a few specialists and the they think
that I probably had a sort of compromise bone architecture
from that. There's a few other health signs
that point to that. And then I think overuse in
terms of not necessarily the volume, but the intensity.
So I moved up from London where I did loads of flat road running
to the Peak District and then I was just up in the hills all the
time and I didn't really recognise the kind of change in
intensity that that would have an impact that would have on my
body. So I do think that has been a
factor to diet. I'm a vegetarian.
I don't think there's a problem with vegetarian diets, but I
needed more protein and I wasn't getting it.
So I think those three things altogether.
I'm also a early 40s woman that's you're at a higher risk
anyway. But yeah, I think it's taken me
a really long time to figure out all the little threads for it
to, to kind of correct it all. I feel like I've corrected it
all but I'm too afraid to say yes.
I've got the answers now and it's all side because you never
know. Yeah, well, obviously
everybody's different and in no way am I asking you to give
medical advice, But what? Yeah.
What did you do to get on top of it?
I wouldn't say get rid of it, but get on top of it.
Yeah, yeah. So when I ended up in, I guess
it was just over a year ago with the fracture in my fibula.
I actually, I'm very, I'm lucky enough that I have private
healthcare through my work. I think I'm in a very privileged
position that I had access to that.
So I get it looked at by a sports consultant immediately.
He I actually switched sports consultants this time, so I'd
seen somebody else from the previous two and he was a great
doctor, but this one was much more hands on with the recovery.
I actually only switched because I was just embarrassed to go
back to the other one initially was like, I can't go back with
1000 phone injury. I was in his office all the
time, get AMRI scans. It was ridiculous, but he, he, I
was in his care until I finished the walk to run program.
So literally every step of the way he couldn't, not controlled,
but laid out what it was I could and couldn't do.
So initially I couldn't even swim with my legs.
It was like float between your legs, swim with your arms.
I mean, I hate swimming at the best of times.
That was a new level of purgatory.
And then it was like a very steady, you know, I could cycle
for 20 minutes three times a week.
And then it was walking around the village for 20 minutes.
And then when I got to walk, run, about three months later,
it was one minute running, 4 minutes walking, repeat four
times building up to 20 minutes running.
And alongside this, I did a lot of strength and conditioning and
plyometric work with a really good physio and also Karen
Wynne, my weightlifting PT, which I think has really, really
helped. So just targeting the areas that
I've been weaker. So there's clearly something
going on with my glutes because I keep getting the femoral
edema, but also then I think that transferred because of my
gait. So working then strengthening
the ankles. I was lucky that I didn't have
any ligament damage. It really it was just bone
stress, which I think it sounds more dramatic, but it's actually
much more straightforward recovery.
So then, you know, there's always a silver lining to it.
And then I, I'm on HRT, which I think has helped over the last
couple of years with, you know, maintaining my bone health, take
loads of set fluent supplements that support my bone health.
And I just increased the protein that I eat.
And I guess the impact of that is that I feel like my recovery
from my runs is just so much better than it's ever been.
So I think that's been a huge part of it, as well as not not
recovering well enough between runs because of all this other
stuff and, and you just, you just don't heal properly.
So yeah, lots of things. And I, I just, I do recognise
that I'm very fortunate that I've been able to pay for all of
this. Like it's, it's not something
that everybody has access to. And I, I feel, you know, despite
all the injuries, very privileged to have been able to
do that. Yeah, although the NHS is there,
it's so underfunded, overrun that it just can't get to people
and that's the the problem. So yes, I'm in the same boat.
I've privileged to be able to do private healthcare through work.
Otherwise you know what would happen.
I'm I was going to say I'm disappointed that your husband
didn't suggest rather than swimming with arms only, no
legs, why didn't he suggest do climbing window legs?
Campus boarding because I fall off too much on snap and cold.
Definitely. He has built a little campus
board in the shed actually, so I could have used that a bit more,
but I'm too afraid of jumping off and breaking something else.
Thank you for sharing all of that, Sophie, about your injury
and your recovery. The next question that we have
is more geared towards your most recent event, which is the
winter spray Winter Spain Sprint S Try saying that fast this
year. So geared towards that event
specifically, there's a couple of questions rounded into this
one big one. So when did you decide that you
were doing that? And amongst all your injury and
recovery, how did you specifically recover with, you
know, training towards that pretty much?
And can you talk us through the event itself?
Yeah, yeah. It was such a great day out.
But yeah, I decided really last minute that I was going to do
it. So I had a had a place, but I I
wasn't sure I was going to start.
The sports consultant had said he wanted me to have a year
before doing anything ultra distance and it was probably 10
months. But when I explained the event
and the kind of pace of the event, he was like OK, I think
that will be OK. But I was really nervous about
it. Like every up and still have it
now every niggle I have I assume the worst.
So it really did that sort of four months build up to that
event. I panic emailed the physio about
14 times. This hurts now this hurts.
What should I do? So, but my prep was building off
the, I think, I guess the solid foundation that I had built
during recovery. And I think the strength work
played a huge part in why I managed to kind of keep moving.
I guess at the pace I was moving, I didn't run that much
compared to most people. I mean, OK, and let me caveat
that I didn't run much compared to other ultra runners, let's
say that, but probably more than your average Joe.
My average week when I worked out was 57 kilometres a week
running. That's it.
I did 2 recchis, so they were my longest runs, one of 38, K-1 of
about 34. Everything else was probably
under 25I switched to probably 70% flat road running with some
targeted hill stuff and I think that's made a huge difference.
Like it's really improved my base speed and I'm not a fast
runner. That's definitely not the thing
I want to do. But just getting that base speed
up has really helped that's it's been fun doing some park runs
and things thrown in. So yeah, I mean, I think people
think you have to just run miles and miles and miles.
You hear a lot. You've got to get time on feet,
you've got to get time on feet. It's like actually, I don't
think you do. There's a lot of research that
says over 3 hours, you're just actually fatiguing yourself.
So unless it's like AI do think longer days out do help you,
help you plan and understand what you need to do.
But you know, I see people going out for six hours one day and
four hours the next day and you know, they're probably not
getting as much benefit from that as they think.
And then everybody's slightly different.
Can I just ask Sophie just, well, we're on that, how many
times roughly in your training plan would you run then a week
and then like how did that did you do more strength than
running and your like average week?
No, I didn't. So I maybe ran, started off, I
built, was building back up. So probably the first month was
four times and then up to five times a week.
I did a reason about cycling that I took up cycling when I
was injured and I really enjoyed it.
So I do try and stick with the bike and then maybe I was doing
2 and two hours worth of strength work a week.
One sort of more like lower weight, high Rep and 1 high, low
Rep, high weight. So it's targeting different
areas. But yeah.
And I, I probably run a little bit, I run more distance than
that now I've got built more confidence in my robustness.
But yeah, during that, five times a week was the most.
And would I be right in assuming then the with that back story
and the last minute in this of you deciding to enter it, you
weren't in it to win it, no. No, that's fair to say.
Like I had pulled the competitors list and gone
through the female participants UGNB indexes because I just
want, I always like to see what's happening.
And I'd I always thought like on a good day I could probably do
well like, but I didn't think I was in good day territory.
But yeah, it just all came together on the day.
And yeah, I LED from the beginning.
So at what point did you think I've got this?
At no point I don't win things so it was a very unusual place
for me to be. But I don't know if you know the
spine Sprint route. So you come off Stoodley Pike
into Hebden Bridge and then they send you up this Cottrell Hill
to the Birch Cliff Centre. And on that hill I was looking
behind me expecting the 2nd place woman to be there and she
wasn't. And I was like OK, OK, this
probably is happening now. And yeah, it turned out she was
45 minutes behind. But I hadn't looked at my phone
the whole time because I didn't. I could see people messaging me
but I didn't want the pressure of them saying she's really
close, she's catching you up. Come on Sophie, move.
Because I really was just trying to have a nice day out and I
caught up with a lot of the Challenger runners.
So they start maybe 3 or 4 hours before 3 hours I think it was.
And they kept telling me where I was, which is really quite
stressful. And I think it's a nice thing,
you know, they're trying to encourage you.
But given my sort of mental headspace, I was a bit like, I'm
just having a nice day out. I'm just having a nice day out.
But to them, they were going really fast.
And you know what, I did feel like I was moving quite well.
And I think a part of that is so it's my home turf.
You know, the next village along is Edale, where it starts.
You know, I know that part of the Pennine Way really well, but
I think it snowed a lot. And I think that frightens
people. Whereas that's my favorite day
out. So I think where people go into
the spine, they're really apprehensive.
They've got all that gear and they're really worried.
I was like, oh, this is the best day.
And I wasn't worried about anything.
You know, I felt safe and comfortable and, you know, the
worst that was going to happen was that I, well, you know,
most, there's obviously always a caveat to that, that something
bad can happen, but you know, just fine and watching you,
somebody's going to come and scoop you up if something
happens. So I didn't have that weighing
on my shoulders. So but yeah, it was a, it really
was a really good day out. I had such a lovely time.
And on that last hill, were you running up it in case you was
behind you? No, I was hiking up as quick as
I could and then I had a little jog up the steps to the the
finishers arch. If you look in the video on this
sort of day 2 video, they just show the Sprint finish and they
cut mine just to that step. So it looks like I'm running up,
which I thought was very kind of them.
So moving on from that, if you had a preference, do you prefer
doing FKTS or an event? Oh, that's a good question.
They're both really different, aren't they?
There are definitely some events I want to do, but I yeah,
there's some things I want to tick off I think.
But I probably will try and do some more FKTS in the future.
It's there's something really enjoyable about doing all the
planning yourself. I really like that and I'm never
going to be the fastest runner, but I am really organised and I
really enjoy all that planning part of it.
I think some people find that stressful, but I really like it.
And also the FKT I did in Scotland, it felt like a real
team effort, like I couldn't have done it without Phil.
And that was really nice to kind of bring him in.
You know, he he very much was a part of it with me.
Whereas I think in races, I mean, he's still a part of it,
right? I mean, he supports me through
all my training and he'll always meet me at the end.
But it felt different. He was so fundamentally involved
in it. I would definitely like to do
that again. I just need to persuade him to
follow me for 12 or 13 days across some bogs again.
And you, you mentioned earlier that you're vegetating.
Yeah. What about during races?
You're nobody eats meat during races unless you're continental.
Well, no go there. What kind of fuel do you have
during races? Yeah.
So I for years I was a real food girl, but actually I've switched
now and I have a lot of gels. So, and I've found it, you had
to do a lot of trial and error with the ones that work.
But I've particularly found over last summer when I was on my
bike more, that's really helped me kind of get on top of my
fuelling a bit more. It's a bit easier to do it and
it's, it doesn't feel quite as rough on your stomach.
So it's kind of built up the resilience, I think, doing it
that way. But yeah, for the spine Sprint,
for example, I had mountain fuel, which I topped up at the
mountain rescue water points and precision fuels, those 90g gels,
and that was it. I tried to eat a packet of
crisps at one point, but it was just like, no, this isn't going
down. So I gave that to a Challenger
runner, kindly took those off my hands.
And what is your favorite post race or big day oatmeal?
Yeah, I mean, I don't think I'm that different to most brothers.
I just like potatoes and in any form I can have some kind of
chips or potatoes or cake. I'll I'll have that.
Yeah, Carbs. Loads of carbs.
And the answer to this question could be any of the challenges
you've mentioned or something completely different, but what
would your biggest running achievement be?
My biggest running achievement is actually nothing to do with
me running, so I also volunteer at the Spine and last year at
the volunteers summit that they do once a year to gather all the
volunteers feedback. I suggested that they change the
Tekli tea bags to Yorkshire Tea because they were really
problematic and they have since changed it to Yorkshire Tea bags
and I think that is my biggest achievement and I think
everybody's grateful for it. Made the biggest impact I'm
guessing. Absolutely.
Yeah. Those Tetley, they just didn't
take. They just didn't work.
Two, it was a 2 bag situation. Now, you said that you don't
drink caffeine on a daily basis. Do you drink tea?
I do, yeah. Obsessively.
I drink decaffeinated Earl Grey tea so I keep going out of
fashion. The tea bags that you got them
to switch, you don't even have them yourself.
But I do when I'm running. I do when I'm running.
I like a good, I'd never have sugar in my tea at home, but you
know, a good strong caffeine, sugary tea mid race, there's
nothing like it. Milk or no milk?
No milk. No milk.
Oh no, I need milk in my tea. I'm a black coffee girl.
But no, I need my tea. And this may have changed over
the years or even on a day-to-day basis, but why do you
run? Oh, yeah, that is a good
question. Yeah.
I mean, I definitely, I like it for the adventure and to get out
and see places. I think there's nothing quite
like seeing something on foot, you know?
I even like walking, like walking seems like the greatest
luxury in the world to me because it takes so much time.
So definitely a part of it is just getting out and having the
space to just be by yourself. Although I run a lot more with
people now. I used to run a lot by myself.
I have a sort of wider running network these days.
So, yeah, I think it mostly is to, you know, get into nature
and, you know, see as much as I can, yeah.
I think that's a really great answer and I resonate with that.
Just as you were answered in there with even going walking.
I was thinking about a whole man in laws are fortunate enough to
have a holiday home in Spain and we've been going out there for
years and years and years. And only until I took up
running. I went out on and on out on the
holiday home in Spain and seen so much more that I didn't know
was on the doorstep. You know, the just by going even
just following like a Strava map or something.
Yeah, seen so much more. Yeah.
And I'm like, I've been missing this for about 13 years.
How did I not know this was here?
And it's, it's as you say, you just get to see so much more,
don't you? Yeah, I mean, I would not have
found myself up Kate Rath and that part of Scotland had I not
been on foot. I mean, most of it isn't
accessible by vehicle. So, you know, I find I think I'm
really lucky to be able to have the mostly have the health and
fitness to do it. Yeah.
But I do think there is, you know, having been injured so
much, there is a part of me and it's like I probably put too
much on that. It's probably too much of my
identity and I should probably, you know, do other things as
well. But I'm guessing that being
injured and not being able to do it, when you are able to do it,
it makes you appreciate it more. Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I don't take it for granted when people tell me
they've lost their mojo. I'm just like, I can't
understand. I don't understand how it
happened. I'm just so jealous.
I was just so jealous for so long of all these people having
fun adventures out. And I was doing 20 minutes
walking around my local village. And the the answer to the next
question might be related to the previous one, but what do you
think about when you're out running?
Yeah, it, well, it depends on the circumstance actually.
So if I'm in a race and, or like when I did my FKTI, spend a lot
of time thinking about what's ahead and doing mental maths
about the pace I'm moving and how I'm how long I'm going to be
there. Most of the time it's absolute
nonsense that I'm working out, but it just, it keeps me
occupied while I'm I'm moving. But honestly, I just sort of
like listening to what's around and seeing who's out there.
So I try not to think about very much, to be honest, just taking
care of myself. I think that's what's so nice
about it. It's, you know, we've all got
busy lives and when you're out running, your purpose is to get
from A to B and that's it. So it's, it's quite a glorious
break, I think from, you know, sitting in front of your laptop
at work all day. And you mentioned earlier on you
still have quite a few events that you would still like to
tick off the list, as well as FKTS.
What's What's the dream race on the bucket list?
You know what the dream race is, is fine again.
I'm going back in January. I've got place.
I just, yeah, I've, I've not finished, definitely not
finished with that. And I, I can't see a time when I
am to be honest, in various, various different races that
they've got. It's just such a fun thing to be
a part of. But I, I, I guess I want to do
the Tour de Glacier, so I need to get through the Tour de Geans
first. That's no disrespect to the Tour
de Geans. It's an incredible race.
I just want to do the bigger one.
I'm in. Can I see you for this?
You know, the last almost hour doesn't surprise me.
And I have had AI had to defer a race, went through one of my
injuries, but it's called crossing Switzerland.
So I'm doing that in July with a friend.
So I think that will be a really a really fun event.
We're doing it as a duo. So and that's just the the via
Alpena route across Switzerland from, you know, like end to end
basically. So yeah, that one's been
rumbling under for nearly three years now.
I'm getting the impression, Sophie, that you like to cross
countries and I'm now wondering how many countries in the world
are we going to? I think that should be.
Any of that class, isn't it? It looks really good on the map.
It looks amazing on the map. I think I've crossed England the
the shorter wait. Well, probably not the shortest
route, but coast to coast Wales, north to South, yeah, Scotland
in three different ways, I think so yeah, it's a nice it makes a
nice Strava map. It's.
Really satisfying isn't it? Actually the annoying thing
about the Swiss one is it stops at Lake Geneva and there is just
a little bit left. So I'm just trying to decide
whether I have to do it or not to finish the actual border to
border route. But but that little bit Sophie
like as much as it looks, no, that much definitely measured.
Well, it's going to feel, it's going to feel like, yeah, it's
not, it's not that far. It's it's it's maybe I don't
know, maybe 30 or 40K or something.
But after 400, I'm not sure I'm going to be up for it.
Races like that, I've seen other races, people saying, oh, why is
the West End away, not 100 miles?
It's because that's what the race is for a, for a country
crossing, I can understand it, but doing it at the end, it's
just like you've got to the end and that's it.
You've been planning it for the whole time.
Doing the extra is not just, it's not the same doing at the
end and it is saying that you're going to do it.
Yeah, yeah, there's, there's, there's going to have to be some
strong mental fortitude to get myself going to do that last
bit. But I'm, I'm not planning on
doing it. I'm just, you know, looking at
that map is a bit annoying though.
And we'll. Keep her eyes peeled.
You said you're going back to the spine.
What would you do differently this time?
Oh, so much less faff. Oh God, do you lose hours in
those checkpoints faffing around with those lovely volunteers
bringing you tea and lasagna? I think I probably wasted 8 or 9
hours just faffing. So I've kind of got a stricter
plan And look, you, your plan doesn't always happen, but yeah,
I think I'm going to be a little bit more aggressive going into
it. And then, you know, I guess the
understanding has to be that if you blow up, you blow up, then
you deal with that then. But yeah, so definitely lots and
lots and lots less bath. My kit was really good.
I was really happy with that. I'm going to use almost all the
same kit. Few lighter things.
I've got you now don't have to carry a stove.
So that's a that's a win. But yeah, just less time at
checkpoints. Yeah, it wasn't even that I
wasn't organised, it was just faffing.
If it would be Sophie, I'd just be talking.
Yeah, that too. And I'd also really like it if
the fire alarm didn't go off when I was trying to get some
sleep. So if we could change that, that
would be great. I just say you're hallucinate
and it was just somebody's alarm going off.
It definitely wasn't because I was on the top bunk and the
alarm was about here. It was quite excruciating.
They got me up and moving. So somebody was obviously going
too fast. They were burning up.
Going in right? Next question can be awkward to
ask or awkward to answer, but feel free to answer in any way
you want. Is there anybody, alive or not,
fictional or real, that you would love to go for a run with?
Yeah, I think it would be easy for me to say, oh, I'd love to
go for a run with Jasmine Paris. And.
But actually I'd really like to go for a run with my sister.
She lives in the US and she's the she really is the reason I'm
I'm doing all of this. And we get to run together maybe
once every two or three years. So it's her.
Yeah. It's a bit of a soppy answer.
She's pretty great. If my other sister could wait
with tea at the end, that would really make it.
And Jasmine Paris as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I feel that you have already answered this next question by
talking about Switzerland and crossing the country.
Is that your next running event or do you have anything?
And I laugh. Have you got anything smaller
coming up? Any 100 miles, Anything like
that? No, I'm, I'm being very careful
not to do too much. It sounds ridiculous when you've
got a 250 mile race coming up, but I'm doing a half marathon in
a few weeks, a road half marathon for some reason, I
don't know why, but it's local and I thought I'd do it, but no,
Switzerland is my focus and and it's the spine after that, yeah,
cool. I'm too breakable to do too much
more. Sensible now.
That's a better way of putting it.
I learned my lesson. Our next question comes from our
previous guest. He didn't know that who was
coming on, so he was asking a question to a runner and the
question that he asked was you can't compete with me.
I want to win too. That's his favorite running
quote. What's your favorite running
quote? To be honest, I'm not really a
quotes kind of a girl, so I do read running books, but yeah,
that sort of stuff never really sticks with me.
So yeah, I wonder if part of it is his mere 21 years, his
optimism. But yeah, I'm a cynical 43 year
old now, so I don't think I get the same inspiration from that
maybe as I once would. So yeah, I'm sorry, I don't
really have one. It's a good question though.
He's so full of hope. Is Kaden.
Yeah, I, you know, I just can't imagine what it must be like
being interested in this kind of running when you're that age.
Like, I think if you've got the mental capacity to cope with big
long races. I mean, really, he's, he's going
to be a future superstar, isn't he?
Yeah. And everything works a bit and
is swinging. He just.
Goes. To bed and nothing creaked.
Yeah, God, I don't remember the last time I felt that.
So Sophie, we've got two last questions for you.
OK, I'll ask the first one and Mike will ask the final question
and let's make you have anything else to add.
My last question is you have done really hard things that
most people wouldn't even attempt, let alone think about.
What belief or mindset helped you keep on going and moving
when it did get really hard? Yeah, I think it goes back to
what I mentioned before about being really privileged.
You hear a lot of people talk about the suffering, and I don't
really prescribe to that because I don't really think it is that.
And that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt or it isn't hard, but I
don't suffer through that. It's just what's expected.
It's basically, you know, the base level expectation of doing
things like this is that you're going to be tired and your legs
are going to hurt, but it's effectively an all inclusive
running holiday through a week. And I mean, what's not to love
about that? We do genuinely mean that.
Like, I think people sometimes think I, I don't mean that, but
I, I do feel that genuinely that it is just such a privilege to
have the time, the money, the fitness, the health, the support
at home to be able to, you know, do this type of thing.
We have a friend that completed the Spine Race the full winter
Spain this year and I asked him not long after that when he was
still a bit raw. And so how was your week's
holiday on the Pennine holiday? I'm like you're.
Going to go, you're going to go into a bubble out of reality.
It sounds amazing and. It is, it is amazing like that.
Nothing else touches you for a week.
It's, it's an incredible experience.
So yeah, I just, I, I love it. And yeah, my feet hurt and I,
you know, I've DNF D races in the past because I didn't enjoy
them. And but you know, it's meant to
be fun. Yeah.
It's a hobby after all. Right.
Final question. And it's one that I thought of
while I was out in my run yesterday and I haven't told
Nikki about it. So you haven't seen it either.
And you you interpret this however you want.
Answer it however you want, but have you ever run till you're
done? I think, I think this is
Scottish National Trail. I was done.
But I think the difficult thing about that is whenever you're at
the end of something, you basically are, it doesn't matter
how long it is or short it is. I feel like you are always at
your capacity at that point. So I don't know, maybe if
there'd been a couple of days after or after it, I would have
been mentally prepared for that. But it it definitely felt like I
was done. It really did.
And actually it turned out I had the femoral edema, so I really
was done. Well, I'm guessing all we can
say is that you put it out there and you are happy with what you
did because you are you. You did all you could do, so
well done. I did.
There was nothing left. And as I said, that's the the
final question from me and just thank you, Sophie for coming on.
Thank you for Nikki, for being Nikki, and it's goodbye for me.
Thank you for coming on, Sophie. Oh, thanks for having me, it's
been really fun.