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Hello and welcome back to 
another episode of Run Till 

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You're Done. 
Tonight's guest. 

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I had the the pleasure of racing
against them I think 3 years ago

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in Northern Ireland when I took 
part as part of the Scotland 

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team and our guest was there and
he blew everybody away with what

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he did. 
I hold my hands up. 

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I had not a clue at the time 
what I was doing. 

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So it was a learning progress, 
process progress. 

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But nowadays it's a case of I 
always say that never think that

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you're the best at something 
because there's always somebody 

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better. 
And Keith is one person that I 

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look at that I'm good at 
backyards. 

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I know that I am. 
Keith's done more than me. 

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So tonight we're going to drill,
drill him down to see what's his

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secrets. 
Welcome to the show, Keith. 

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Thank you for joining us. 
Thanks for. 

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Having me on. 
Thanks for asking me to come on 

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and delight. 
The chat is without all things 

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running. 
So the first question that we 

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ask every single guest is how 
did you first get into running? 

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So I got into running, running 
with my daughter, putting her in

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a running chair in 2016. 
So Alana had cerebral palsy so 

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she was wheelchair bound, she 
couldn't talk, she was paid, 

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fed, she was, she'd seen spastic
quadrafedic cerebral palsy. 

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So we started running to aim for
Dublin City Market in 2017 and 

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we are raising money for a 
wheelchair accessible boss for a

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respite care home that Alan 
attended. 

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So we ran Dublin City Margin 
2017 raising over €70,000 and 

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getting enough money for the 
boss. 

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But then about six weeks after 
that, Alana passed away suddenly

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at home. 
Oh, that's how I got into doing 

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ultra Run. 
And then it was sort of started 

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to move on to deal with the 
death of my daughter basically. 

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And it helped me to a point. 
So it just got me out. 

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It got me thinking of me, 
feeling my thoughts and 

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basically going through every 
emotion. 

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When you're out running, I open 
the roads on your own. 

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And then it just got me into 
doing ultra running, ultra 

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marathon's, backyard ultra. 
So when you start to realize 

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that what saved your life you're
actually good at, and then you 

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can progress within that, which 
is, you know, it sort of sort of

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helps to like. 
So you obviously use that as a 

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tool to, I would say get over 
grief. 

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I'm not sure that you could 
never say you get over it, but 

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deal with it. 
Do you think it's helped you 

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deal with other parts of other? 
I don't know what but. 

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Yeah, I think doing doing ultra 
marathons, you know, I always 

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felt that the emotional pain I 
was feeling, I was never going 

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to feel that physically, you 
know, and that's probably how I 

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was able to push myself so hard.
And so far, I think it has 

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helped because when you're 
spending that amount of time out

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training and running on your 
own, no headphones out in a 

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field and the pitch black all 
hours in the morning, you know, 

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it builds up that mental 
resilience that you need to try 

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and try and navigate life 
through being a free parent. 

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And was Dublin Madison the 1st 
event that year in Children and 

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Wise? 
Yes, but so that was supposed to

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be my first marathon, but what I
had to do was, you know, to 

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build the confidence to do a 
marathon. 

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I ran a low key marathon down 
the country in Ireland and just 

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to make sure I could run it on 
my own first before I talk on to

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push the chair. 
And I ended up winning that. 

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I end up coming forced in that 
as well just by sheer chance. 

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And so I suppose doing that sort
of gave me a lot of confidence 

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going in to do Dozen City 
Marathon like, you know. 

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There's something that I've when
my daughter was small, used to 

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push her in the the chair when 
running. 

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And something that I noticed was
I had it in my mind that you 

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were almost leaning on the chair
and that would take some of the 

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weight and it would be easier. 
Is not you're, you're pushing 

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it. 
Yeah, I, I got that too as well.

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You know, people would say, oh, 
sure, easier for you because you

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can lean on the chair. 
If you lean on the chair, the 

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chair will just go, yeah, you 
know, it's very back heavy. 

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So if you push it down, it will 
just drop to the floor. 

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And going in on the flat, you 
could run beside the chair with 

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one armed. 
I there's a picture of me just 

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running beside a wave and 
everybody with one arm and going

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downhill. 
You just have to make sure you 

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didn't let go of the chair. 
And. 

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But going uphill is where all 
the pressure was, you know, like

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anybody not pushing the chair, 
you can use your hands to propel

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yourself forward. 
Pushing the chair you can't. 

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You literally have your glutes, 
your hamstrings, your calves, 

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they're taking all the pressure.
I remember the race three weeks 

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before Dublin City Marathon. 
I went out too fast. 

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Obviously loads full of 
confidence, but they were too 

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fast and it was the last 6K. 
It's like every hill in that 

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race was in the last 6K and I 
struggled to the end. 

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I just delighted to see the 
finish line within that one. 

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But it's sort of, you know, it 
takes you back then to go right.

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You need to be, you need to pace
yourself properly when it comes 

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to do in Dublin, but not get 
carried away with yourself. 

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So it is a it was a good 
learning curve as well. 

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And but yeah, you're pushing. 
I think it was worked out around

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40 kilos is what what? 
What you were pushing with the 

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chair, with Alana in it. 
And like, Alana was eight years 

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of age and when we done it. 
So yeah, she's both, both 40 

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kilos and all. 
That's what you're pushing. 

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And that was an incredible 
amount of money that you raised 

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for that to get that boss. 
Did you find that extra pressure

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on top of the training to do 
well because you you were 

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running for the charity? 
Yeah. 

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So I wanted to get all the money
raised before we done Dublin and

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coming up to it, we were so 
there. 

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I think we're about 2025 
thousand away from it and we 

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actually got anonymous donation 
of 20,000 and just came in the 

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post. 
It was, it was unreal, like, but

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that feeling actually that 
feeling there, that emotion of 

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getting that hitting that 
target, you know, going into run

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the race, going into Dublin, it 
was that extra like, you know, 

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this is what we've done, this is
what we've created. 

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And the support we used to get 
at races, the support we got in 

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Dublin was absolutely amazing. 
Like it was something I've never

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felt before. 
And the thing about it was that 

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everyone knew who Alana was, you
know, And that was the whole 

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thing about this was that we got
Alana's name out there and 

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everyone knew her, you know, and
she had a smile and everyone 

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used to call her name. 
And it was, it was absolutely 

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amazing, like. 
These still get recognized for 

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that if you do. 
Like if you did Dublin Marathon 

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now, would you think they get 
recognized for what you've done 

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back there? 
Or nobody? 

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It's just you. 
You don't. 

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Nobody knows who you are 
anymore. 

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So in 2018 we were awarded the 
Lord Mayor's Mad for going back 

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to run Dublin in Alana's memory.
So it's given to somebody that's

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running the marathon for a, for 
a special reason or special 

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cause. 
And they also retired Alana's 

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number from Dublin City 
Marathon. 

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And what happens is then 
everyone remembers her at My 

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late. 
So we'd always put a picture of 

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it when we're heading in to do 
the marathon. 

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Like we pull up at My late, so 
it's on the way in and we would 

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put a we'd put a picture of 
Alana at that at that mile 

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marker. 
And so when people are coming 

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in, they come in the gates of 
the Phoenix Park and the mile 

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markers on the right hand side 
and people salute or wave or or 

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blast themselves or they were 
like, so yeah, an awful lot of 

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people remember that in in 
Dublin every year, which is 

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again, it's very heartwarming. 
That's an. 

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Incredible memory to have then 
for. 

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The, the, the next question that
we've got down was to ask you 

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what your, your favorite race 
is. 

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But I'm guessing you've got a 
favorite right there for for. 

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Yeah. 
Different reasons. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
And this year, well last year 

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was the first time I caught and 
run it because I was injured. 

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So it was it was hard to pull 
out of it, but at the same time 

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I, I went to my late and I stood
there for a few hours to see 

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people coming through and the 
amount of people that would 

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shout, Call My Name and you 
know, and just say they were 

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thinking of a land and thinking 
to me and all that. 

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And you know, that alone itself 
was just, you know, was so much 

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felt so much more than actually 
going in to run at myself. 

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And I had a couple of coaching, 
a couple of people, couple lads 

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that were running the two, one 
fella, you know, he was running 

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for the very first time and I've
seen him coming in to the finish

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line. 
And that was just, it was 

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incredible to see and feel that 
like, you know, so not just 

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running it and still being a 
part of it was yeah, it's 

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absolutely amazing. 
So yeah, it would be my yeah, I 

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always say that it's a race that
I'll always do, obviously until 

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I got injured, but yeah, the 
race that I'll always be there 

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for regardless. 
That's amazing when you had done

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when Alana had passed and you 
carried on running. 

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Before we get onto the backyard 
ultra chat, did you go straight 

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into backyard ultras or did you 
do any other events distances 

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even like 10 KS halves ultra? 
Where did you go from there to 

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the backyards? 
So yeah, where the line would 

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have done 510 halves and a 
marathon, one marathon and the 

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plan was to do a bit more 
weather, but unfortunately we 

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didn't get that time. 
So I Justine there was a race 

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Dublin to Belfast and it was 
just like, you know, I don't 

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know what it was running South 
or north or sit in the city. 

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And that just really appealed 
for me. 

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And I think it just it just took
my attention and it's something 

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that I just said right, That's 
what I want to do. 

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And I, I just done my whole, my 
own training plan for it and 

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just to build up the, the 
distance within a training block

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to get there. 
And, you know, to do that I was 

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in 2019, March 2019. 
And to do that was, was 

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incredible. 
You know, again, we raised a bit

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of money for that or we raised 
it for other kids with special 

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needs to help out their families
and things like that, because 

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the services within Ireland 
aren't great and people have to 

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fight for everything. 
So to be able to donate, donate 

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money to a family that they can 
buy stuff for, for their child 

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with special needs is, you know,
it's, it's very heartwarming 

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that we're in a position to do 
something like that. 

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So that's really, that was my, I
suppose, my driving factor 

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behind doing Dublin to Belfast. 
And it probably helped that I 

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ran well as well. 
It's 172 kilometers. 

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And so going from marriage and 
death to 172 kilometers probably

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wasn't ideal. 
What I had done a few months of 

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training for it like, so I was 
well, I was well built up for a 

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board. 
I finished third. 

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I think about 18 hours and 20 
minutes for it, like so you sort

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of go, right. 
I probably trained well for this

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one. 
That's incredible. 

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And like, what is that in miles 
for the miles people? 

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A. 100. 
And seven yeah, 169 is 100 

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miles. 
Yeah. 

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And then you've done that. 
So how did you get into backyard

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ultras? 
Again, it was just sheer sphere 

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tank because I had trained for 
Martinus Abbott and it was, I 

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was a month away from the race. 
I had a full train and block 

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done for it and the race was 
pulled because of COVID. 

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And so there was there was other
stuff I was looking at and the 

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backyard ultra just came up. 
I was, I was actually booked in 

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to do at the time of Martin 
disabled, but I didn't do it 

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because it was too close to the 
race. 

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So once that race didn't go 
ahead, you couldn't really get 

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outside of Ireland. 
So I just said, right, I go back

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to I go back and there's Florida
Manor is when the first one I 

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did and 20s, I think it's 2021. 
And so that was the first one I 

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did. 
I just said I'd go up to that, 

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see how I get on. 
And just, you know, again, it 

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was just complete fish out of 
water. 

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Like I didn't have any clue what
I was getting into. 

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And again, surprisingly enough, 
I done I done fairly well in 

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that as well. 
How? 

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00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:26,600
How well did you do? 
I done 63 hours, a new Irish 

224
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,880
record. 
On your first score. 

225
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,520
Yeah. 
Did you have enough fuel for 

226
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,800
that time or did I think you 
don't expect to run for that 

227
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,080
length of time? 
I hadn't a clue what it was like

228
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,720
and my brother and one of my 
friends was with me. 

229
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,240
And then I had a couple of 
friends that came up as well 

230
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,400
through the time and my brother 
had to ring ahead to bring more 

231
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,320
food and stuff up for me. 
Like because we were completely 

232
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,320
like hadn't a clue. 
Like we didn't even have 

233
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,000
anywhere to lie down. 
I had a if there was a chair 

234
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:58,160
like I was sitting on and what I
thought like even at 50 hours I 

235
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,800
was like, I'm done enough for 
this. 

236
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,680
And just walking up there, 
walking up one of the roads and 

237
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:06,040
I was just going right. 
I'll just get around to the 

238
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,760
finish line and I just call it a
day. 

239
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,000
Like I mean brother was like 
just lay down for a few minutes.

240
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,960
So I think I slept for about 8 
minutes and got up and went 

241
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,160
again and even them again the 
next lap was like, oh, I'm sick.

242
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,720
And it's like, you know. 
And he said right, I get around 

243
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,400
to the finish line again and 
again just left for another 8 

244
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,360
minutes. 
And after that it felt great, 

245
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,400
just like I got to kept going 63
hours and I was still feeling 

246
00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,240
good like. 
And after your two couple of 

247
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,600
micro 8 minute naps, that was 
it. 

248
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,080
You were absolutely fine. 
That's absolutely insane. 

249
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,760
Yeah, I can't believe how well I
felt after it. 

250
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,320
Like, and even the next day, you
know, like you didn't really 

251
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,800
when I went home that morning. 
Like I finished early out of the

252
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,080
morning and when you go home, 
you think you're going to sleep,

253
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,360
but you don't. 
Like you're buzzing then you 

254
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,920
just, you know, you just your 
sleep patterns is all over the 

255
00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,760
place anyway. 
But yeah, you're just just 

256
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,840
buzzing like, and you start to 
understand what you have 

257
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:01,160
achieved. 
Like, you know what I mean? 

258
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:05,440
Like I broke the, the national 
record by, you know, the 

259
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,960
previous one was 49 hours and we
went to 63. 

260
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,480
So, you know, and then if you 
start to think right, where is 

261
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:17,040
my, where is my stopping point? 
How far do I have to go before I

262
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,440
will call it a day? 
And I was finding it hard to see

263
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,600
that, you know, and like, as 
Mike was saying, like we, we've 

264
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:28,520
done Castle war down into 
February and, and it was like 

265
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,040
the weather was woeful. 
Like it was the portal started 

266
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,920
off really small. 
You can avoid them. 

267
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,800
And then they just, you just 
have to go straight through 

268
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:36,360
them. 
It just, it was so badly. 

269
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,520
And I'm standing on the start 
line at 36 hours trying to 

270
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,400
convince Carl to keep going like
he was, he was saying, I'm going

271
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,520
after this one. 
And I was like, you're only 150 

272
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,080
miles. 
You stay for another 12 hours, 

273
00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,080
you get 200 mile claim. 
And I said, I stay with you. 

274
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,760
And he was like, and that's the 
problem right there. 

275
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,840
You'll still be here. 
So there was there was no 

276
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,360
convincing. 
Then he just he pulled out then 

277
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,640
after that like. 
A slight correction on my 

278
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:10,440
numbers earlier, 175 is, as you 
said, 109 miles and it's 160 for

279
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,480
the 100 miles. 
Yeah. 

280
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:18,520
So where were we? 
I've taken us off track. 

281
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,640
But after that first one, you 
realise you're really, really 

282
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,360
good at it. 
How many have you done backyard 

283
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:33,840
ultras from then until now? 
Yeah, I think I've done 5 and. 

284
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,880
What's your current record now? 
89. 

285
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:44,040
Wow, did you win that one? 
No second. 

286
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,080
Oh. 
No, we had set, we had set a new

287
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,600
world record at that stage. 
So this was in Germany in 2022 

288
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,200
in retiring Germany. 
Small little village in Germany.

289
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,920
It was absolutely amazing place.
Like there's not a shop in the 

290
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,880
place. 
There was one hotel and there 

291
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,280
was one street with a few houses
and that was it. 

292
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,520
Like, you know, it was real. 
It was brilliant. 

293
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:11,160
So same to middle of nowhere. 
But yeah, in 2022, I think it 

294
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,560
was May 2022, I went there and 
it was to find my breaking 

295
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,960
point. 
It was to find how far I can go.

296
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,400
And I knew there was there was 
people going to it that were up 

297
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,240
to putting in big, big hours. 
And I was like, right, can I, 

298
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,160
can I mix up with the the best 
in the world as such at the 

299
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,600
time? 
And yeah. 

300
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,680
And there was, you know, the 
hours sort of fly by like, you 

301
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,280
know, like they just sort of the
first day sort of takes on and 

302
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,120
then the day start to run into 
each other like night and just 

303
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:47,120
day just becomes all a blur 
like. 

304
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,440
But then it ended up there was 
only five of us left and you're 

305
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,560
sort of going 0, Jesus, like, 
how far can I actually go here? 

306
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,800
And I'm starting to come up to 
my own record at that stage. 

307
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,080
And I'm still feeling fair, 
fairly good. 

308
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,760
And I started to run with Mori 
Mori, who's a Japanese runner. 

309
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,520
He is. 
He's phenomenal. 

310
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,760
Like he does the mad ultra 
margins. 

311
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:14,480
And we started to run with him 
and he had done, I think he had 

312
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:19,440
done 7475 hours in bigs previous
to that. 

313
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:22,960
And like obviously there was, 
there was no conversation 

314
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,800
because he can't speak a word of
English and my Japanese wouldn't

315
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,960
be the best. 
So we just, we just sort of run 

316
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,360
together and we get to a certain
point and we just sort of touch 

317
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,800
hands and I'd go walking off up 
the up the hill and he'd just be

318
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,880
a bit slower. 
And that that happened a lot. 

319
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:44,280
And on about 73 or 74 hours, he 
just came up to me at the start 

320
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,400
line. 
He says I'm finished. 

321
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,680
And it was only three of us left
at this stage. 

322
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,440
And so I was shocked, to be 
honest. 

323
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,280
And I didn't know it was hard to
go, you know, just how I felt 

324
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,200
about it. 
Because when you spend so much 

325
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,360
time with somebody, they're 
nearly like you're, you know, 

326
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,840
that person that was there all 
the time is now not there 

327
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,960
anymore to nearly get you 
through a part of the race. 

328
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,480
But then also it's taken in that
right, you're second the one or 

329
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,360
two people now in this race at 
the same time. 

330
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,720
The world record of time was 85 
hours was. 

331
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,080
Yeah, I was 85. 
So we were coming up. 

332
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,880
We were 10 hours away from the 
world record at that stage. 

333
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,520
I'd already broken my own Irish 
record. 

334
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,680
And then it was how far I could 
push it out to from then on. 

335
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:38,040
But it was, it got really, yeah.
It got really fucking dark at 

336
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,400
times. 
Really, really dark when the 

337
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,880
hallucinations start kicking in 
and things like that. 

338
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,960
And you know, like people saying
like how you didn't bring my 

339
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,240
phone, I wasn't listening to 
music or anything. 

340
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,200
Like I only left them probably 
by two or three hours. 

341
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,800
But thoughts that coming into 
your head, you know, if I get 

342
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,160
lost up here, start saying to me
prove and all, like if I get 

343
00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,680
lost up there, don't come 
looking for me. 

344
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,480
And I don't remember this, but 
they said it to me after that. 

345
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,640
Like, you know, I started to say
things like this and I must have

346
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,120
been something that was playing 
on my mind that I'm going to go 

347
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:10,240
up here and I'm going to hit 
nothing, not come back. 

348
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,760
Like, you know what I mean? 
It's mad the things that go 

349
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:18,240
through your head like. 
Since you got to your 49, has 

350
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,680
there anybody in Ireland that 
has gone anywhere near your like

351
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,160
breaking 49? 
89. 

352
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,400
Well, no. 
When you passed the 49, now 

353
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,800
you've got to 89. 
Is there anybody done anything 

354
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,520
in between 49 and 89? 
So well, there was, there was 

355
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,320
three other people at the time 
when we done 63, but in 

356
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:47,680
Tennessee two years ago. 
So GV is a Filipino, but he now 

357
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,080
has, he's an Irish reddest 
resident now for that. 

358
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,240
He's done, I think he's done 81 
in Tennessee, but at that time 

359
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,200
he was running for the 
Philippines. 

360
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,040
But he's now, I think he's now 
running prior. 

361
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,040
So he's potentially would be the
one to challenge it. 

362
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,080
Other than that, the next to 
that would be probably the first

363
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,640
race I done, which was 6061. 
I think was the closest to that 

364
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,080
since then and. 
You mentioned Tennessee there, 

365
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,080
I'm taking it going to bags. 
What was that like? 

366
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:21,600
It's amazing, you know, when 
you're like you're watching all 

367
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,080
the YouTube stuff, you're 
watching it on things on Netflix

368
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,880
and things like that. 
And when you're actually there 

369
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:32,680
meeting lies, looking at the 
race, it's it's mad. 

370
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,840
It's crazy. 
You really have to pinch 

371
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,960
yourself and go like, you know, 
you're at the World 

372
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,000
Championships, you're racing for
your country, You're among these

373
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:46,640
incredible ultra runners who 
have done the same, if not more 

374
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,320
than I have done, you know what 
I mean? 

375
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,080
And now you have to go to 
compete against these as such. 

376
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,800
You know, backyard like it's 
you're not really competing up 

377
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,840
until you get to the last few, 
but you know, you're just you're

378
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,360
in the corral with these amazing
runners and it's like, right, 

379
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:09,120
what can I do here? 
And do you think having laws and

380
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,840
all the other runners, do you 
think that puts more pressure on

381
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:18,080
you to stay in the race? 
I don't think there's anything 

382
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,240
in in the on the planet that put
more pressure on me that I put 

383
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,360
on myself. 
No one whatsoever. 

384
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,160
So I went there on probably not 
to train a block. 

385
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,280
I sure I I would love like to 
do. 

386
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,960
I had a few injuries coming up 
to that. 

387
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,880
I was trying to train and then I
I'd have to just ease back a bit

388
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,480
and then start again and ease 
back. 

389
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,760
And so Tennessee probably didn't
go as well as I wanted to, but I

390
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,480
was still happy with how far I 
got. 

391
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,680
And it was the first time I've 
ever, I ever stopped in the race

392
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,680
and went, you know, I'm actually
happy with how I done there. 

393
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,640
And I did have it still have a 
lot of questions as to what 

394
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,760
happened. 
My energy levels went, I just 

395
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,200
couldn't move. 
I was sort of falling into 

396
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,000
hedges. 
Not I was just completely out of

397
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:09,240
it, like, so I had timed out on 
the 7470 fifth lap and I didn't 

398
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,440
make it back on 75. 
But you know, I rang the 

399
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,120
coaches, said it to him and he 
says, kid, I was surprised even 

400
00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:18,360
got that far, He said. 
With the amount of training that

401
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:21,560
you had done, the preparation 
we've done, he says, you know, 

402
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,440
it was to get that far was a 
feat in itself. 

403
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,040
Like, so I had to take a lot 
from that. 

404
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,200
But at the same time was still, 
you know, it's still lingering 

405
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,200
there that I want to go back and
I want to do better. 

406
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,960
Like I want to hit the 100. 
That's that's my main aim is to 

407
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,840
hit the 100 hours. 
I won't get back to bigs now 

408
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,040
for, for this year. 
And because I'm only, I don't 

409
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,000
need getting back from surgery, 
like surgery on my knees. 

410
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,600
So I'm just trying to get 
recovered for that. 

411
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,480
It's a slow process. 
So I just won't have time. 

412
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,240
I was hoping to go to Dad Cow 
Gully and I think it's May or 

413
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,520
April or May. 
So it's hoping to go to that 

414
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,080
qualify and then get into Vegas 
brought over. 

415
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,560
But unfortunately that's that's 
not the way it's lined out for 

416
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:09,640
me. 
So as someone that's never done 

417
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:15,640
a backyard ultra, where would 
you advise if someone like 

418
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,000
myself is to get into it, which 
I'm pretty certain I will after 

419
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,400
speaking to yourself and make us
choking to get me into one. 

420
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,840
I would have no idea where to 
start. 

421
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,320
So like, you know, pace and 
fueling, there's so many factors

422
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,320
to think about the I think the 
first thing I would think about 

423
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,240
would even be pace. 
So would you recommend like 

424
00:24:35,360 --> 00:24:40,360
running to 475052? 
What would be an ideal? 

425
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:42,400
Because it's very strategical, 
isn't it? 

426
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,120
It is. 
And the other, the other thing 

427
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:49,320
about it is that there's no set 
elevation for a backyard ultra. 

428
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,600
So some of the Australian ones 
and some of the Belgian ones are

429
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,400
flat, completely flat. 
Now they obviously 'cause their 

430
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,080
own issues as well. 
And in Ireland there's majority 

431
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,160
of them are probably 120 a 130 
meters, there's some of them 

432
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,920
down at 250 meters. 
So it's such an array of that. 

433
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,680
So you need to sort of pick the 
race that is going to suit you 

434
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,240
first, whether you want to go 
flat, whether you want to go a 

435
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,080
bit of elevation, or whether you
want to go all in and go 250 

436
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,920
meters per loop. 
And obviously the more 

437
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,880
elevation, the less time that 
people are going to be out 

438
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,280
there, you know, the shorter the
race is going to be. 

439
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,600
And so, yeah, it's just getting 
time on your feet and getting 

440
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,520
used to power, power walking 
uphill. 

441
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,880
You know, if you build build a 
lot of leg strength, that's half

442
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,240
the battle. 
And again, at the same time, 

443
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,040
it's when you're out for that 
length of time that you're 

444
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,400
eating, you're getting fuel and 
you're starting to figure out 

445
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,880
what what food works for you. 
And you know, within the 

446
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,080
backyard you're going to eat 
more solid food because you know

447
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:56,440
you're going to be you won't 
have a lot of time to do that. 

448
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,400
It's not like when you're in a 
Mart and you're not a faster 

449
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,520
pace where gals are going to are
going to do a few because within

450
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,080
backyard you're not you're not 
born enough glycogen to be taken

451
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,720
gels. 
So you need to be sort of mixed 

452
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:15,200
up between sweet and savoury 
foods and high, high carb. 

453
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,160
High carb food is what you want 
to be eaten rather than, you 

454
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,600
know, sugar. 
And one tip that I did get from 

455
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,840
you was your secret sauce. 
Almond fingers. 

456
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,440
Yeah, absolutely. 
Yeah, 30 grams of carbs and one 

457
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,440
small finger and that with a cup
of tea at 2:00 in the morning is

458
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,240
the nicest thing ever. 
I'll just have it with a cup of 

459
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,120
tea, just sitting watching 
Netflix because you're told me 

460
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:47,040
to try it. 
That that's exactly what they 

461
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:48,840
say about it. 
It's up to individual. 

462
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,320
You have to try it beforehand. 
Because I'm allergic to almonds 

463
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,200
and I don't like tea. 
Don't. 

464
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,040
Get down at all well, do you do 
you do the simulations as well? 

465
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,320
If you were, if you had an 
athlete that said I'm going to 

466
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,760
do a backhell, do you get them 
actually practicing it for 

467
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,040
certain length of time? 
Yeah, yeah. 

468
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,760
And I do it myself. 
Like I remember when I was 

469
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,120
training for what before I went 
to Germany. 

470
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,080
And so there's a place near me, 
it's called the Hill of Tar. 

471
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,600
It's an iconic place, but within
Ireland, where the high kings of

472
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,200
Ireland live. 
But there's a 3.4km route around

473
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,400
and it's 60 meters of elevation 
per lap. 

474
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,000
Why do 2 laps at that? 
So it's basically on the field 

475
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,400
and it's black dark. 
So I do 2 laps of that every 

476
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,440
hour. 
So I could do it in like 45 

477
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,400
minutes and I'd sit in my car 
down for 10 minutes eating food,

478
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,560
drinking, contemplating life. 
And you just go back out again, 

479
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,000
head torch on and go again. 
Now there's sheep, there's sheep

480
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000
on the field. 
So the sheep start moving. 

481
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,720
Like the fourth time went up, 
all the team was all these eyes 

482
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,760
moving all over the place. 
I was like, what the fuck is 

483
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,480
that? 
And when you got closer, it's 

484
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,440
like just sheep. 
So it was like, oh, grand. 

485
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,840
But every time I ran around, 
they sort of start running 

486
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,000
everywhere. 
And then after a few hours, they

487
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,280
just stopped moving. 
So it was grand, like telling me

488
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,320
I wasn't where you're getting 
hit by your sheep. 

489
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,640
But a brother came up to me and 
he had a sandwich and he had a 

490
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,840
cup of tea. 
And he just stood there looking 

491
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,640
at me going, he's what you 
doing? 

492
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,600
I was like, Sean training for a 
race like I'm doing backyard 

493
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,040
also like I'm training for this 
big race. 

494
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,440
And he was like, yeah, you 
understand that. 

495
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,440
But like 3:00 in the morning, 
like what you doing? 

496
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,400
So he, I think he thought he was
losing my mind, you know what I 

497
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,720
mean? 
But I was trying to explain him,

498
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,480
like when you have these big 
goals and these you have to you 

499
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,120
have to do outside of the norm 
of what other people do, you 

500
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,400
know what I mean? 
So yeah, I tried to train 

501
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,880
unconventionally with putting 
myself through a lot of, I 

502
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,720
suppose completely out of my 
comfort zone and like running 

503
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,280
around the field in the black 
dark with a head torch used to 

504
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,800
freak the life out of me, you 
know what I mean? 

505
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,160
So all you can see is literally 
what the hedge taught show you 

506
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,480
and nothing else. 
And you're sort of thinking 

507
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,200
going, jeez, there could be 
people in that hedge there that 

508
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,280
are going to come out and what 
have, I don't know, your head 

509
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,040
just takes over. 
But then someone said to me 

510
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,520
going, you know, if there was 
someone in that head or in them 

511
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,200
trees there and they're looking 
at you at this time in the 

512
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,120
morning out running, do not 
think they're going to be more 

513
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,000
freaked out about you rather 
than you are. 

514
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,240
Damn. 
And it's like, that's probably a

515
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,040
good point. 
And that's a couple of things 

516
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,960
that you've mentioned your 
brother, does he crew you on all

517
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,560
of your events? 
He would have crewed me on a 

518
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,240
few. 
Yeah. 

519
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,200
My older brother, yeah. 
He's, you know, he obviously 

520
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,360
thinks I'm not, but at the same 
time he wants me to do well, you

521
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,440
know, he's very protective, but 
he's good at it as well. 

522
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,480
Do you know what I mean? 
He knows me. 

523
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,160
He sounds like a vote to him 
during it, but I don't, I know, 

524
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,280
I don't know. 
I'm not cranky at all. 

525
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,760
Do. 
You have any other crew that you

526
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,040
want to shout out? 
Not really just me, just my 

527
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,240
brother and my friends really 
come up to crew me. 

528
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,280
Yeah, but it like, look, it's 
hard to get people to crew you 

529
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,240
because you don't know how long 
you're going to be there for. 

530
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,600
You don't like asking people to 
take time off work. 

531
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,840
It's you know, it's people taken
away from their lives. 

532
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,840
And I suppose you you probably 
need to have two or three people

533
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,920
to come up. 
And and if you're away from 

534
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,400
home, it's harder again. 
If you're going abroad, it's 

535
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,320
even harder again. 
So when I was going to, I was 

536
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,320
when I was actually going to 
take how goalie this year, 

537
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,120
there's actually a guy over 
there, he's Irish as well and he

538
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,520
matches me and he says like I 
can stay in his house. 

539
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,960
He had crew for me. 
Like he was all in on this like 

540
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,560
that we were going to going to 
get the world record, you know 

541
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,480
what I mean? 
So something like that is 

542
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,280
incredible. 
Like you know what I mean? 

543
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,360
To have to have that, that the 
other side of the world, someone

544
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,080
is there going come on over. 
You can stay in my house for 

545
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,800
three weeks, 4 weeks, whatever 
you want. 

546
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:56,160
We have proof. 
Yeah. 

547
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,240
Anything you want is there. 
You know, it was, it was just 

548
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,200
incredible to chat to him, to 
Castle and just, you know, have 

549
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,200
that conversation about, you 
know, the goal that we both had.

550
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,800
So I think it's when you have 
somebody that has the same view 

551
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,840
on your goals as you have, it's,
you know, it's, it's special 

552
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,840
personally. 
And you said that you are doing 

553
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,440
your simulation runs where you 
get out of the car at whatever 

554
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,400
time in the morning after 
sitting down, but you've also 

555
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,800
you've done eight in nine hours.
How do you convince yourself 

556
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,760
that you're going to do another 
yard? 

557
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,120
We're in training. 
In both. 

558
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,080
So we're in training. 
It's a case of right, if I can 

559
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,040
do it here, I can do it in race 
where there's loads of people, 

560
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,840
you know, there's No Fear of me 
sitting down and going on. 

561
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,080
I'm just going to sit in the car
and just do you know what I 

562
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,080
mean? 
So if I can do it here, I can do

563
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,080
it there when I'm in the race. 
It's a case of I didn't train 

564
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:02,120
for that many hours just to sit 
here and let it go by. 

565
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,240
So there's the different 
contrast of of training and 

566
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:07,880
racing. 
It's just a different mindset 

567
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,760
but with the same thing of 
getting getting to that start 

568
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,360
line at the top of every hour to
go again. 

569
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,520
And do you have your own sleep 
strategy? 

570
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,880
Like, you know, you're going to 
go for quite a while? 

571
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,000
Let's say, for instance, your 
first 24 hours, do you say 

572
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,520
you're like have a 18, say I'm 
going to go for a quick nap? 

573
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:32,000
Or do you just play by feel? 
I think if you're if you're 

574
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,320
looking to go far, you need to 
start trying to get your sleep 

575
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,800
in early. 
So what I normally try to do is 

576
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,320
coming in today, coming into the
night part. 

577
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,640
So just before that when it's 
starting to get dark, you try to

578
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,360
put your head down, but it's 
very, very hard because there's 

579
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,040
so many, so much going on. 
There's so many people still 

580
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,040
there. 
You only will be maximum like 12

581
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,400
hours into the race. 
So there's still a lot of people

582
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,880
there and there's a lot of balls
around the place. 

583
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,200
But once you lie down, you try 
to just tried to just rest and 

584
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,760
got going again. 
But as you go into night two, 

585
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,560
night 3, there's no way she's 
sleeping, no one whatsoever. 

586
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,880
You just go ahead and take your 
shoes off, whatever bottles you 

587
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,200
carry and you give them to 
whoever's crew and you just lay 

588
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,760
down and just gone. 5 minutes 
sleep. 

589
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,560
And what I do as well. 
So I just tell them, look 5 

590
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,560
minutes and they wake me up. 
Once they wake me up, I get up 

591
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,600
straight away. 
I don't just lie down and just 

592
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,320
give me a minute. 
It's like I get up straight 

593
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,080
away. 
I sit on the chair and I'll, 

594
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,640
I'll chat to them and we'll have
a laugh, you know what I mean? 

595
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,200
We'll try to get a better, a 
better crack going. 

596
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,960
Because you know, being out on 
the course, especially when it 

597
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,480
gets down to a few people, it 
stretches out. 

598
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,240
So a lot of that hour, that 
loop, you're on your own. 

599
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,680
So to have people, your crew 
there for 5 minutes or three 

600
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,280
minutes just chatting here, just
trying to lift your spirit, 

601
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,560
especially at all hours of the 
morning. 

602
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,360
Like, you know, that's what you 
need to to get back around. 

603
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,760
And your career sounds really 
important to choose who's coming

604
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,560
with you. 
As you say, it's because you're 

605
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,080
relying on them. 
Absolutely. 

606
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,159
Like when I was in Tennessee, so
sorry, Annabelle crew to me and 

607
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:13,840
when it when we're in Tennessee.
So I hadn't met Annabelle before

608
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:19,120
that and I was meant to go in 
2022, but because of COVID, 

609
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,159
obviously it didn't go ahead. 
And so she had contacted me to 

610
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:27,480
say if I want to crew, she was 
able to crew for me if she was 

611
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,840
in Michigan. 
So she had an 8 hour drive down 

612
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,800
to Tennessee. 
So when it was going ahead down 

613
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,440
in 23, I messaged her and I just
said look, there's no stress. 

614
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,920
I'll give you a forced refusal. 
If you want to do it, I'd love 

615
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,480
to have you. 
If you can't do it, I 

616
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,560
understand. 
And she said she wanted to do 

617
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,639
it. 
So she came down, she had 

618
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,639
everything like, I mean, 
everything I didn't, I had to 

619
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:54,639
bring back all like. 
So we've just done a bit of a 

620
00:34:54,639 --> 00:35:00,120
shop and you know, we were 
talking on the phone and things 

621
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,560
like that. 
But we were a couple of days 

622
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,000
before that, you know, we 
started to bond as, you know, 

623
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,040
friends and it was just amazing 
then to have her. 

624
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,400
They are crewing for me and 
we're still friends this day. 

625
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,040
She's come over here, I've gone 
over to meet her in England when

626
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,080
she comes over about all our 
family and that, you know, and I

627
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,480
think you create that bond 
together that you know, you've 

628
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,680
experienced something that, you 
know, you're the only two people

629
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,440
that have experienced what we've
experienced in our own camp. 

630
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,120
You know, everyone has their own
separate experiences. 

631
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,560
But within hours and the laugh 
and the joking that we had 

632
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,240
through the night, through the 
days was just, it was 

633
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,520
incredible. 
Like, so I was so grateful to 

634
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,720
have her there and, you know, 
for her to be the person that 

635
00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:48,920
she is to get me as far as 74 
hours, which is a sad like even 

636
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,040
even Marcus, my coach wasn't 
expecting me to go to. 

637
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,720
Do you want to shout out who? 
Who coaches the coach? 

638
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,560
Who is Mark? 
Marcus Marcus Smith So Marcus is

639
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,640
in our fight in Dubai. 
So I I first came across Marcus 

640
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,280
when I was looking to do Martin 
the Sabbath, one of the guys 

641
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,520
here said to me like he trains 
people for all the time. 

642
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,640
So no better person to go to 
than somebody who does it all 

643
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,800
the time. 
Like so contact them and he says

644
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:25,040
to me, you know, he has a if 
you, I was saying to him, I want

645
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,960
to run assault in three hour 
marathon just in 2019 as well. 

646
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,800
And I, I hadn't run it so three 
hours at all. 

647
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,600
So they want to run a sub three 
hour and he says, I tell you, 

648
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,200
I'll come back to you when 
you're on a sub three hour. 

649
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:42,400
I was like fucking correctly. 
So that that again, just right 

650
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,680
goes, it's a challenge. 
It's that's a challenge to me, 

651
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,800
like joining me. 
And so I end up, I ran, I went 

652
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:54,640
down to Cork and they ran 258. 
And when I finished, I just, I 

653
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,160
can text him. 
I go there, Yeah, there's your 

654
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,640
fucking 3 hour bargain. 
So. 

655
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,040
Hey, let's get started coaching 
for Bargain. 

656
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:12,240
So going back to the backyards, 
few things about tactics that I 

657
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,040
would say it's personal, but 
you, you said it's OK to ask 

658
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:15,840
you. 
So we'll ask. 

659
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,200
You can refuse to answer if you 
if you don't want to. 

660
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:27,120
Sleep Strategies. 
Do you plan when you're going to

661
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,840
sleep or do you just sleep every
lap? 

662
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,880
Only coming into the evening 
I'll start trying to sleep and 

663
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,040
then through the night I'll try 
to I'll try to go to bed asleep,

664
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,520
but generally during the day I 
won't. 

665
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,200
But as bad as it goes on, you 
don't really have a choice in 

666
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,200
it. 
If you're feeling like you know 

667
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:49,000
you're going to sleep, you just 
lay down and you sleep. 

668
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,080
What I tried to do 5 minute 
sleeps and then get up before I 

669
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,760
before the 3rd the three 
whistles and I want to be on the

670
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,800
start line on the one whistle 
for one minute ago. 

671
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,400
And the opposite asleep. 
How do you stay awake for the 

672
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,280
lap? 
Do you use caffeine or anything 

673
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,960
else? 
Yeah, so I take caffeine 

674
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,520
tablets, only 50 milligrams, but
like, you know, you'd be 

675
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,760
swallowing them. 
But, you know, it's a case of 

676
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,720
like, you're falling asleep when
you're running as well. 

677
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,600
You know, you're at one stage I 
was walking up a hill and this 

678
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,880
was all hours in the morning and
his walk up the hell. 

679
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,120
And I remember his falling 
asleep. 

680
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,040
And it's sort of you're bearing 
off to the side, but he was 

681
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,240
talking away. 
And I turned to talk to the 

682
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:32,280
person. 
I was talking and there was 

683
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,240
nobody there. 
And it's like, jeez. 

684
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:36,160
And so you just have to 
acknowledge things like that. 

685
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,400
And you just go, right, I'm 
falling asleep, I'm 

686
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,080
hallucinating. 
So you just sort of walk on up 

687
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,720
the hill. 
But even in bigs, so the night, 

688
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:48,440
the night loop is like the night
went back and there's like 1-2, 

689
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:52,120
there's like three turns and you
can see head torches for for as 

690
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,840
long as far as the races, But 
you start to see people veering 

691
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,240
off to the side and you're just 
going, oh, they're falling 

692
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:01,360
asleep. 
The the. 

693
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:07,320
The recommended daily caffeine 
intake is I think it's 400 

694
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:13,600
milligrams, but recommended not 
to run for 89 hours without 

695
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,240
sleep. 
How much caffeine do you take in

696
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,200
a a day when you're doing a 
backyard? 

697
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,280
I have no idea. 
I don't even keep track of that.

698
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,280
It's just like I could have a 
cup of tea, I could have a cup 

699
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,720
of coffee, I could just when I'm
feeling tired I just take 

700
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:30,680
caffeine tablets, but I don't 
really. 

701
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:33,480
I have Tailwind as well, which 
would have caffeine in it. 

702
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,080
So through the night I'd 
normally drink that because it's

703
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,880
easier to take liquid carbs in 
through the night because your 

704
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,960
body doesn't want to take like 
big, big foods at night. 

705
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:50,240
So you try to do little food but
more liquid carbs. 

706
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,120
And then through today, you're 
trying to get your carbs in, but

707
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,200
you're never going to get as 
many carbohydrate in as you're 

708
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,960
burning like when I done in 
Germany when I done 8-9 hours. 

709
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,640
I lost 5 kilos in weight. 
I don't have 5 kilos to lose. 

710
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,720
But I was like, it was the rash 
horrific, Like I'd gone really, 

711
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:10,760
really skinny. 
But it's mad when you look at 

712
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,640
the start of the race or the and
of the race, how how much you 

713
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,520
lose in nearly four days of 
running. 

714
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,200
And when you have your sleeps in
your wrist and you kick those 

715
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,840
shoes off, do you have a shoe 
rotation? 

716
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,320
How do you look after your feet 
for that length of time? 

717
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,280
Yeah, so I, I'd have, I had two 
pairs of runners and I swapped 

718
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,240
them every eight hours and my 
socks, they do the same thing. 

719
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,000
Now joining is sometimes when, 
you know, you feel a blister 

720
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,720
when you're on the loop, you get
back, you completely forget all 

721
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:43,000
about it. 
It's only when you put your 

722
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,080
shoes back on your back out in 
the course again, it's like get 

723
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,720
that blister. 
So you know, and if that could 

724
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:52,840
happen 3 or 4 times in a row 
until it gets really, really 

725
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,760
bad. 
Like at one stage my, like my, 

726
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,600
my heel had three blisters on it
and it was like my heel was 

727
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,120
coming off. 
And so they forced all the 

728
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,840
blisters and then we patched it 
up. 

729
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,640
But one of the one of the lads 
was a foreign lad, He came over 

730
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,880
and he had some cream. 
I hadn't a clue what it was that

731
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,600
he had it in his hand. 
He just started rubbing onto my 

732
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,520
feet and I was like on, I wasn't
going here, walk away. 

733
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,480
It's amazing what people do 
within that setting of a 

734
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,400
backyard. 
It's like all hygiene goes out 

735
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:24,600
the window. 
Like you know what I mean? 

736
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,240
They just and they'll help you 
out. 

737
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:30,560
All the crews help each other. 
So it's that that unity of all 

738
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,240
the crews and everything within 
within the race like, and I 

739
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:37,080
think that's what sets ultra 
runners and cruise and all that 

740
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,000
apart from any other sport. 
It's the whole camaraderie and 

741
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,760
the people that are there wanted
to do well for you, like you 

742
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,120
know what I mean, and nothing 
else. 

743
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:52,200
I think maybe famous within this
running scene is you're not 

744
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:57,560
allowed to double dip. 
I think certain creams you dip 

745
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,440
it there and then you put it on 
and then as you say, hygiene 

746
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,720
goes out the window. 
Yeah, exactly. 

747
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:08,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Another question we had was 

748
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,240
pacing. 
Do you have a, do you want to 

749
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:17,040
come in at a certain time and 
how do you make sure that you do

750
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,200
that? 
If you do like do you go a pace?

751
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,240
Do you have markers where you 
have to be? 

752
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,520
How do you? 
Yeah, I've, I struggled with the

753
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,360
mindset of going over 50 
minutes. 

754
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,880
And I think that was through my 
detriment within Germany, that 

755
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,280
if I come in over 50 minutes, 
I'd nearly start to panic. 

756
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,240
So I'd like to come in around 
4647. 

757
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,080
And I think it gives me enough 
time to do whatever I need to do

758
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:52,040
and get a rest, get food on, 
have a chat with people. 

759
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:55,320
Yeah. 
So I think when I was in 

760
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,280
Germany, I think my average time
was 46 minutes. 

761
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,680
And that's about it was about 
100 meters of elevation. 

762
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:08,160
And afterwards, when, when 
you've gone home and you've won 

763
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,040
the race, if you hear a whistle,
do you get PTSD? 

764
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,640
No, I don't get PTSD. 
No, not at all. 

765
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,200
I see like some people, some 
people would like I've heard of 

766
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,320
people like blowing whistles or 
putting a whistle on their on 

767
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:29,240
their phone to wake them up. 
But like, Oh my God, no, like 

768
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:34,400
like even training, I won't even
go with sleep in the training. 

769
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,280
I sit in the car and just look 
out the window like and eat food

770
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,360
and just get back out and go 
again. 

771
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:44,080
Like if it's lashing rain, it's 
obviously that that harder to to

772
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,080
get that mindset to get back out
again. 

773
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,240
But you know, as they say, Danny
lies. 

774
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:52,160
It's like if you can do it in 
shit weather, you can do it 

775
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:53,880
anytime. 
Do you know what I mean? 

776
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,240
And instead, when there's other 
people around, just cruise 

777
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:57,600
around, there's other runners 
around. 

778
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,040
That makes it so much easier 
again to get out there to do it 

779
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,400
again. 
And when, when you have 

780
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,880
unfortunately said right, I've 
had enough and somebody else has

781
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:15,040
won the race, do you regret it? 
Germany, yeah, that was the 

782
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,040
biggest one for me, like because
it was the first time I stopped.

783
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:24,400
We had broke the world record. 
I was second in the world and I 

784
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,400
was devastated. 
And it's a terrible way to to be

785
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,240
like, because you know, how many
people in the world would love 

786
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:36,160
to be in that position? 
And I feel, and even to this 

787
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,520
day, I still feel I had a moment
of weakness and I turned back 

788
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,800
because I don't think I was in 
that bad a state. 

789
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,840
Now, Look, that's OK Saying it 
now. 

790
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,680
And in that race, I could barely
breathe. 

791
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,080
I was barely eating food because
I blisters on my tongue, my 

792
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,520
throat. 
Yeah. 

793
00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:00,240
And that at that point in time I
was fucking dying. 

794
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,760
I was at that. 
But yeah, I still regret that 

795
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,680
turning back at that time. 
I still think I had 100 hours in

796
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,880
that race. 
And if I had of expressed how I 

797
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,720
was feeling to my crew at the 
time, and I think I would have 

798
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:20,560
got to the 100 hours. 
The whole thing about I'm going 

799
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,440
to get lost up the mountains was
playing on my mind. 

800
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,920
And yeah, there was a lot of 
things that was in my head that 

801
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,520
I wasn't expressing. 
And I think communication with 

802
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:35,000
whoever's crew in which at them 
times is the is vital. 

803
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,520
Because within within the 
backyard, you're going to have 

804
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,360
points in the race where you 
have depths that could last 

805
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:48,920
35810 hours or you have to be 
confident that it's going to 

806
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:50,960
come back again. 
And it does and normally does 

807
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,280
full circle, you know you're 
going to feel shit for 5 or 10 

808
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,560
hours, but when it comes back 
around, you'd feel great again 

809
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,080
for another 5 or 6 or 8 hours. 
So you just have to be confident

810
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,480
that is going to happen. 
And like in Germany, I didn't 

811
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,200
even think of that at the time. 
And I think I just had a moment 

812
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,400
of weakness and I just, I just 
turned back. 

813
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,880
And even when I turned back, 
when I came back through the 

814
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,800
through the finish line, I was, 
I knew I'd made wrong, wrong 

815
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:23,560
choice. 
And you say that that was when 

816
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,640
you made it wrong choice. 
Has it been any other times that

817
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,680
you've made the same choice and 
stopped? 

818
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:33,440
How, how soon afterwards? 
Is it, as you say, on the finish

819
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,320
line I should have kept on going
or is it the next day? 

820
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,200
And so the only other one I 
stopped in was Tennessee, and I 

821
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:48,880
timed out on the 75th lap and I 
was struggling for a couple of 

822
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,000
hours and I wanted to get to 
daylight, which I did. 

823
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,400
And then two hours after that, 
like the humidity was insane, 

824
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,040
the heat, it was all just the 
fact that I was losing so much 

825
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,360
salt. 
I was getting a lot of chafing. 

826
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,560
And as we were saying there, 
like, you know, all hygiene goes

827
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,000
out the window like a time, like
when you start off and you're 

828
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,320
chafing, you're covering 
yourself with a towel, you're 

829
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,200
washing yourself. 
From that point it was like I 

830
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,880
came in trousers off, just 
washed it down, putting on stuff

831
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,400
just to stop the chafe and like,
and I was in agony. 

832
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,400
So I was losing an awful lot of 
salt and if you feel on your 

833
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,280
face and everything and I just 
wasn't be able to get it back. 

834
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,280
And that's, I think my energy 
levels just are gone. 

835
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:37,120
And when I finished that I like,
I was devastated because I came 

836
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,960
in when I didn't come in and I 
cut across the the loop and I 

837
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,160
just went straight into the 
tank. 

838
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:44,840
I didn't even come back around 
to the finish line. 

839
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,840
But it was cameras there And 
when the camera fellas got seen 

840
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,440
me and he starts out and I was 
like, oh, so I went in to our 

841
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,400
tent and I was lying on the bed 
and they came in with the camera

842
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,400
and I was like, I was just like,
I just got up there and went 

843
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,880
out, out to the start line, went
out and I spoke to lies. 

844
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,840
He pat me on the shoulder and I 
tell you, it's like it's one of 

845
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,040
the worst part from the shoulder
you'll ever get, but one of the 

846
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:09,560
most humbling. 
Do you know what I mean? 

847
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,560
Like, you know, well done. 
But you didn't, you know, you 

848
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,640
had a bad laugh and that was it.
But it was an absolutely amazing

849
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:19,920
experience to be there. 
And I think it was only when I 

850
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,440
sort of took myself away from 
that, went back to the house, 

851
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,640
got something deep, got a bit of
a rest, was still watching it on

852
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,120
TV. 
Like, you know, it was mad 

853
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,440
because we were there only a few
hours earlier. 

854
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:34,320
But I think it just said in that
I was happy with how much I'd 

855
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,120
gone. 
I don't think I could have done 

856
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,760
a whole pile more than what I 
did. 

857
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,520
So to have that feeling alone 
was was really going to be 

858
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,400
considering the last the time I 
stopped before that in Germany, 

859
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,320
it was horrific like so to have 
that feeling of being content 

860
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,080
and being happy with how far 
he'd gone was, was what? 

861
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,000
So round up this section of the 
interview of the backyard unless

862
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,240
Mike has any more. 
I've got more questions I was 

863
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:06,040
going to ask. 
Have you got three quick fire 

864
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,200
tips for anybody you? 
No, no, you're, I'm going to 

865
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:15,080
butt in here. 
This is a homage to David Pato 

866
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:18,040
Patterson on the Backyard 
Podcast. 

867
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,160
Have you got 3 ultra running 
Backyard ultra running tips? 

868
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:33,920
Have I Oh God, I think like you 
need to train unconventionally 

869
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,000
to be to go far in the backyard 
ultra. 

870
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:40,960
You know, training is a massive 
part of it. 

871
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,520
Being out for hours on your own 
is a massive part of it. 

872
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,120
Not even listening to music, 
listening to getting in tune 

873
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,600
with your own body of how far 
you can actually go. 

874
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,640
Don't quit in the chair and 
always get out. 

875
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,120
Get out to the start line and go
as far as I can. 

876
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,880
I made myself and Annabelle made
a pact that it was her job to 

877
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,400
get me to start line, my job to 
get to the start line, back to 

878
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,840
the finish line again. 
So that, like I said, that 

879
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,440
worked. 
That worked really well. 

880
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,600
So get someone in your crew that
has the same aspirations of your

881
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:22,200
goals as you have. 
And my last it's good enough. 

882
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,440
My last question before I let 
Nikki move us on is you might 

883
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:32,400
not know the answer. 
Back in October we had the World

884
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,760
Team Championships and the All 
Irish team had to stop their 

885
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:42,480
race because of the weather. 
I think it was a wind had made 

886
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,200
the National Trust. 
Yeah. 

887
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,600
Yeah, so they had. 
They had to stop the race, 

888
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,880
abandon it. 
I was under the impression that 

889
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,400
they were going to do a race 
later on to decide who won the 

890
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,480
ticket to Biggs. 
Do you know what happened with 

891
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,160
that? 
I have no idea. 

892
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,960
I know there's a lot of 
controversy around it because 

893
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,240
they knew this was going to 
happen before the race even 

894
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:07,560
started. 
They would not move the race 

895
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:13,400
from where it was and a couple 
of lads had actually stopped an 

896
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,160
hour or two before that because 
they knew the race was going to 

897
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,360
be stopped. 
So the race was supposed to go 

898
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:24,040
ahead, supposed to start again 
from that point, but we're only 

899
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,960
the lads that were left. 
So the people that actually 

900
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,080
pulled out because it was going 
to be stopped was like, so why 

901
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:30,640
do they go another loop? 
But I know it's going to be 

902
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,880
stopped. 
They wanted to be allowed back 

903
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,760
into it again. 
So I know there was a lot of 

904
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,600
controversy around it, but I 
don't know where it's at or 

905
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,640
what's happening. 
It's quite possibly not not 

906
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,480
going to go ahead. 
Like I don't know if there will 

907
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,760
be an Irish participant there in
October. 

908
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,640
Unfortunate for for the people 
that had trained to get that 

909
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:56,160
far, but absolutely what happens
I guess. 

910
00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:01,160
Yeah, like I was, I was coaching
a fellow that was on it and he 

911
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,680
said like he was out there to go
his furthest and got to that 

912
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,160
point and he was really, really 
pissed off. 

913
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,800
Like, so I think he's just said 
I've been off for that. 

914
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,960
Like, you know, but like this is
backyard running because doesn't

915
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,000
matter what race you go to, you 
still don't know how long it's 

916
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,040
going to go for. 
Like it could still go for 10 

917
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,400
hours. 
You could win at a 10 hours. 

918
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,720
You could still be there 48 
hours later. 

919
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:26,360
You could be there 60s. 
Like that is the beauty of 

920
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,120
backyard. 
We just have no idea how long 

921
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,640
you're going to be there for, so
you have to be prepared to go 

922
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,120
home after 10 or go home after 
50. 

923
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,840
I think you have to be prepared 
to prepare for the unexpected. 

924
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,000
Yeah. 
And that's just unexpected. 

925
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,640
Exactly, I think that's that's 
why it comes down to the whole 

926
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,120
mindset of backyard, you know, 
because you know, if you go in 

927
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,480
with the mindset that right 
grand, I get this done in 48 

928
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,360
hours, you know, you could be 
setting yourself up for failure.

929
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,520
So it is building that mindset 
of I'm just going taking it one,

930
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,880
one hour at a time, 1 loop at a 
time and that's it. 

931
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,480
And just be prepared to to be 
there as long as as experts, 

932
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:11,240
however long that takes. 
But Nikki, now you might move 

933
00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:15,440
on. 
So next question that we've got 

934
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:20,840
is really excitingly, recently 
you joined forces with Wild 

935
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,080
Heart Runners coaching. 
How did that all come about? 

936
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,880
So I would have met Kaz at the 
same race we were at. 

937
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,880
Mike was in Castle Ward and now 
at that time I didn't really 

938
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:39,320
know Kaz, but she contacted back
as my coach because she wanted 

939
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:47,680
to do the that the the women's 
UK record, which he did And and 

940
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:49,600
she was messaging me at the 
time. 

941
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,960
And then since then we've just 
been got on really well. 

942
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,400
She come over here then to do 
that race over here. 

943
00:53:55,760 --> 00:54:00,520
And when I went up to give her a
hand and help her help Scott and

944
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,560
that crew for her. 
And, you know, I was doing a bit

945
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,120
of coaching. 
I knew her and Debbie had 

946
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,560
started the Wild Heart Runners 
coaching and just, you know, 

947
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,960
just as conversations go on and 
she just said, look, would you 

948
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,240
be interested then I was like, 
we have a waiting list. 

949
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:18,080
I was looking to take on more 
people. 

950
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,960
And, you know, she said, look, 
would you be interested in 

951
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:22,240
coming in? 
I said, yeah, like having the 

952
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:25,760
expertise of herself and, and 
Debbie, it's fantastic. 

953
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:30,040
And even to have people to 
bounce ideas off and, and chat 

954
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:33,960
about things, you know, because 
I, I believe that, you know, 

955
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,000
just because you've done it 
doesn't mean it's going to make 

956
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,240
you a good coach. 
And I think, you know, trying to

957
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:42,080
pass on what I've done on to 
someone else. 

958
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:43,920
You know, it doesn't work like 
that. 

959
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:49,640
You know, it doesn't give you 
the thing to, to, you know, I 

960
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,760
know everything about it because
I, I absolutely don't. 

961
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:57,520
And I still do courses, I still,
I, I'd have a lot of imposter 

962
00:54:57,520 --> 00:54:59,840
syndrome around as well. 
Like who am I to be telling 

963
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:03,640
people what to be doing or how 
to train to do things like their

964
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,040
sports. 
I think it's about building 

965
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,400
confidence and, and instead 
having Debbie and cars there as 

966
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:14,000
well to, to run things by, have 
a chat about, you know, it's all

967
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,280
it's, it's all very positive. 
So yeah, really, really happy 

968
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,840
with with the decision I made 
and hopefully going forward. 

969
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,320
I'm actually over in Scotland 
and go on Friday. 

970
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:27,200
So we're going up to Glencoe on 
Friday, so on Saturday morning 

971
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,080
for a few hours and then I'm 
back over then on the 17th of 

972
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:35,040
May because we're doing a 
simulation backyard and then 

973
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,160
I'll be doing a presentation as 
well after that. 

974
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,760
So that's 17th of May. 
I think we all, all three of us 

975
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:42,280
will be there on the 17th of 
May. 

976
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:47,960
So if any, any big podcast fans 
want to meet us, then we'll all 

977
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:54,840
be there, right? 
The next question was about 

978
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,640
running achievements. 
What? 

979
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,680
What would you say that your 
biggest running achievement is? 

980
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:05,800
Like, I suppose the expectation 
would be, you know, being second

981
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:10,600
in the world at one stage, but 
it's not, you know, to run a 

982
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:15,600
marathon pushing my daughter. 
You know, you're part of a very,

983
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,800
very, very low percentage of 
people that ever get the chance 

984
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,560
to do that. 
And I think to be able to do 

985
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,640
that, and you know, that was 
something that started me on 

986
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,800
this journey of where I am now. 
I would never have started 

987
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,880
running if Alana was never in my
life. 

988
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:38,440
It was a thing that came up 
because we are fundraising and 

989
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,960
to be able to do that was 
absolutely incredible. 

990
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,680
Like, and I'd give nothing more 
than to be able to do that again

991
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,040
is to push her in the marathon 
again. 

992
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,520
And that leads on nicely to the 
next question as to why do you 

993
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,200
run? 
Is that still your? 

994
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:59,400
Why? 
100% yeah, like Ronan saved my 

995
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:05,680
life from was the the start of 
Alana passing away. 

996
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:10,920
You know there's visions in your
mind that you never you'll never

997
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,760
get out. 
But Ronan has helped me to be 

998
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:20,000
able to process a lot of what 
has happened in my life, the 

999
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:25,800
process, a lot of feelings and 
thoughts that I have, you know, 

1000
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:29,280
like when you feel when you're a
father of a child that passed 

1001
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,520
away, you feel like it failed. 
And it took me a long time to to

1002
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,360
get over that, that you let her 
down. 

1003
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:42,280
So, yeah, Ronan has, has been, I
suppose, the catalyst to get me 

1004
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,840
to that point. 
And when you're, when you're, 

1005
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,920
you know, you're starting to 
achieve a lot as well, it it, 

1006
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,400
you know, it helps with all that
that you've got, you're on the 

1007
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,640
right path and you're doing 
something you love. 

1008
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,280
And, you know, I was injured 
there. 

1009
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,680
I haven't run, I haven't raced 
in a year and a half. 

1010
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,440
And I'm only getting back 
running now. 

1011
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:07,120
And, you know, I sort of stand 
to understand why I love running

1012
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:11,440
so much, you know, because when 
you're not running, you know, 

1013
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:14,520
things can get on top of you a 
lot more than than they normally

1014
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,880
would grant you'd be in the gym 
and things like that was just, I

1015
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,000
don't feel it the same when 
you're out running. 

1016
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,280
Like it's, you know, you're out 
in the air. 

1017
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:26,000
You're you're, you know, you're 
sort of you're just enjoying it.

1018
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:28,120
You're just enjoying it. 
And it just makes things a hell 

1019
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,720
of a lot easier in life, I 
think. 

1020
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:38,400
And a question that I get asked 
quite a lot is what do you think

1021
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,080
about when you're running? 
And I don't just mean racing 

1022
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:46,400
training. 
You interpret how you will. 

1023
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:51,520
Yeah, so I try not to get caught
up in, say, work stuff. 

1024
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,920
And I spoke to people on this 
before. 

1025
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,160
Like people go out, so say the 
great running and you know what?

1026
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,400
They start thinking about family
life, work life, and you're 

1027
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,240
going, that's not what you're 
out there for. 

1028
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,800
You're out there to try and move
all that aside and it's time for

1029
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,240
yourself. 
It's time to process your own 

1030
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:09,920
thoughts. 
It's time time to process your 

1031
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:15,160
own feelings and your head. 
Your head can take can take over

1032
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,240
a hell of a lot of times and 
make things a hell of a lot 

1033
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:18,600
worse than what they actually 
are. 

1034
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,800
So if you can take that time and
run like I start, I've run 

1035
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,160
without headphones now as well 
so that you can actually 

1036
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,200
experience that feeling within 
your body. 

1037
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,880
And I think once you can start 
experience the feelings and 

1038
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:34,040
start a name, what feelings are 
coming up for you that is going 

1039
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,320
to help you heal anything that's
going on inside you and and 

1040
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:38,560
things that are coming up for 
you. 

1041
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:44,240
And I think if we were able able
to look inward a lot more, we'd 

1042
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,920
probably stop reacting a hell of
a lot more to things that come 

1043
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:52,520
up in life. 
And as we discussed earlier, 

1044
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,040
you've already been to 
Tennessee, which sounds like the

1045
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:59,280
Backyard Ultra Runners dream. 
Is there any more dream races on

1046
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,040
your bucket list? 
I would love to do the Barkley. 

1047
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,400
Yeah, I would love to do it. 
Now, there's only a few ways 

1048
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:11,320
that you can get into it. 
And winning in in the backyard 

1049
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,160
in Tennessee would have been one
way to get in, you know, But 

1050
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,760
unfortunately I wasn't there 
long enough to do that. 

1051
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:22,800
So yeah, the dream race won't be
to do the Barkley, but to do do 

1052
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,640
it justice as well. 
And not just go to make up 

1053
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,120
numbers either. 
Do you know what I mean? 

1054
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:29,680
But it'd be, it'd have to be 
prepared. 

1055
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,160
I, you know, I'd have to do a 
hell of a lot of training and 

1056
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:33,840
navigational stuff and things 
like that. 

1057
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:39,000
And one of the guys here in 
Ireland, he has done it and 

1058
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,520
he's, he's an extremely good 
Mountaineer. 

1059
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:46,560
And we spoke when we were in 
Verona, we are over for the 24 

1060
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:49,720
hour European Championships. 
And we were talking and he was 

1061
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,160
saying, he was just saying to me
like, you know, if you ever 

1062
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,720
think of doing it, he'll he'll 
help me to prepare for it. 

1063
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,000
So I probably will take him up 
on that on that offer at some 

1064
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,040
stage. 
In case anybody missed, our 

1065
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:07,000
previous guest was John Kelly 
who has just done the the fun 

1066
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,240
run on the person to get that 
far. 

1067
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:14,240
So you got big or he he's quite 
small shoes to step into. 

1068
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,600
He's just, it's just getting 
tougher now every year, isn't 

1069
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:19,520
it? 
After 5 finishes last year, it's

1070
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,720
I'd say it was, I'd say it was a
tough one this year, especially 

1071
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:27,480
when you when you see what John 
only got the phone run and that 

1072
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,360
was knowing what everyone else 
got to round, round to. 

1073
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:35,520
Yeah. 
Next question is, it can be a 

1074
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,120
difficult question, but I I 
think we possibly already know 

1075
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:48,360
the answer if if there's anybody
alive or not, fictional or not, 

1076
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,560
that you would like to run with,
who would it be? 

1077
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,480
Oh, sure, yeah. 
It'd have to be with my daughter

1078
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,720
Alana. 
You know, there's so many great 

1079
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:01,200
memories, whether I run around 
the Phoenix Park, training out 

1080
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,040
in Dublin city, Martin route. 
And even now, like when I'm 

1081
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:07,280
working Dublin and you sort of 
drive onto part of the route, 

1082
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,680
you know, it brings back some 
kind of memories of that day. 

1083
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:14,920
She was so happy when we were 
out running and she'd normally 

1084
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,400
just fall asleep anyway. 
But, you know, it was just that 

1085
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:22,440
startling feeling and that sort 
of bond that we had had together

1086
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:26,000
that sort of would have, would 
have brought us a hell of a lot 

1087
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,280
closer. 
So yeah, it would be be just to 

1088
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,120
be able to get out and and push 
my daughter again and running to

1089
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:38,040
it would be amazing, yeah. 
And to round things up for the 

1090
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,360
interview, what is next for you 
running wise? 

1091
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:45,640
So I'm trying to get just get 
back running now. 

1092
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:51,320
So I had a tear in my meniscus. 
So I had surgery in January and 

1093
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,480
it's still niggling a little 
bit. 

1094
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,720
Now I'm trying to get back from 
doing bits and pieces. 

1095
01:02:56,360 --> 01:03:00,480
So what am I doing? 
I'm doing Dingle Marathon in 

1096
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:05,480
September during Dublin March. 
In October I'm hoping to do a 24

1097
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:09,760
hour on New Year's Eve into New 
Year's Day and so they do it 

1098
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:14,280
here in Ireland as well. 
And then next year I hope to do 

1099
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:18,640
the the Irish National 
Championships in the 24 hour. 

1100
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,320
I want to get back, I want to 
try and qualify to run for 

1101
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:25,840
Ireland again the 24 hour. 
So I need to sort of get my 

1102
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:29,120
distance up on that and and go 
over the distance that I have in

1103
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:36,040
24 hour will be the aim. 
But I think, as Nikki said, that

1104
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:42,200
rings us to a close. 
And I'm just going to say thank 

1105
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,320
you, Keith, for joining us. 
Thank you Nikki for being Nikki 

1106
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:47,960
and it's goodbye from me. 
Goodbye from me. 

1107
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:50,440
Thanks, Keith. 
Thanks very much. 

1108
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:53,120
Thanks for asking me on and it's
a real pleasure to to Jackie.