Hello and welcome to another episode of Run Till You're Done.
This week we are joined by someone who has an amazing list
of running events under our belt, but most recently has came
to our attention by just podiuming and the UK's toughest
race, the Spain. Thank you for joining us, Nicky
Arthur. Thanks for having me guys.
It's good to be here. It's great for you to join us.
We'll start by asking the question that we ask everybody.
How did you get into running? So I, I initially was a boxer by
trade really. So when I moved up to the Isle
of Lewis for a teacher job, I joined like a local Muay Thai
gym. And when I moved over to Isle of
Man, I, I continued with that sort of martial art combat sport
and for quite a long time. And, you know, a really big part
of martial arts and combat sport is sort of running just to keep,
you know, your stamina high and you're, you know, your weight
down basically as well. And yeah, when all the gyms shut
in COVID and lockdown and things like that, in around sort of
2020, I decided that I needed sort of something else.
And I was living on the Isle of Man at the time.
And, and myself and a couple of friends decided that we're going
to task ourselves with running around the coastal footpath of
the Isle of Man, which was 100 miles.
And so, yeah, back in 2020 was the sort of like I guess when I
got the ultra bug. And then I managed to achieve
that sort of goal of running, running around the Ale Man with
my friend Kevin. And then, yeah, ever since then
I've just just been enjoying ticking off big miles, really.
So yeah, I guess it was sort of a neat smudge when I was boxing,
running, and now it's like, yeah, just my sort of soul sport
now. I just love it.
So you go into the running during cold weather, just same
with the lockdowns and everything when things I would
imagine starting to open back up.
Did you have your first race at that point or did you have a
race even before the running took a hold while you were doing
the boxing? I didn't ever do an ultra race.
I'd done an Iron Man, which I guess is like obviously sort of
ultra. I did that in 2016 for my 30th
birthday, but I hadn't ever done like an ultra race.
So my first one was the Scotland 100 mile that GB Ultras run and
it was one of the first times doing it.
And actually it got cancelled sort of mid race due to weather.
So I only managed to get in 75 miles.
But I was winning that race and I was coming forth overall.
So I I was doing, I was doing well.
I was absolutely devastated for the race to get like to get
canned at the time. But it was, it was really,
really bad wind and, and, and it was definitely the right
decision for for JB ultras to make.
So yeah, that was like my sort of first experience of ultra
racing. And yeah, again, like really
enjoyed it. Felt like I had unfinished
business as well because the race had got cut short.
And, you know, I'd really hope to sort of improve on my time
from like my Isle of Man challenge.
And so I didn't have that. And yeah, so that was that was
the sort of first sort of dabbling in UK events, I guess.
Your Isle of Man challenge, you tempted to put that on as a
race? We I do know I've talked about
it. It's it's it's definitely
something that we we have thought about.
It's just I'm not too sure the trails would take, you know,
high numbers, which is a shame. It's just it's it is a lot of it
is sort of coastal eroded and things like that now, but
there's definitely scope for a really good ultra race on the
Isle of Man. So please watch this space, the
Isle of Man Kelly. Yeah, it's quite, it's quite
unduly and it doesn't have anything really high like the
highest points, like just over 600 meters.
But we've got a we've got a ultra, like an ultra.
It's called the mountain marathon.
It's not like a typical mountain marathon.
It's not like a NAV one. But yeah, we it goes from north
to South, like across the sort of tops of all the mountains.
And so that's normally in Easter time.
So we have that, which is a great race, but yeah, it's it's
really treely and and fairly if you know, you mean it's just
it's not been mountainous, not like whales or the lakes or
anything like that, but loads of good ways to train over here for
sure. Yeah, well, you've been training
over the tops of mountains on trails for your sky running,
which is something that you came high up in the last year or the
year before, and that got you nominated for Scottish
Sportswoman of the Year. Yeah.
You want to talk about that? Yeah, so I like the sky running
had put out, you know, apply to go to the World Championships
and and myself, my partner and one of one of the boys from the
training group thought, oh, kind of put her name in the hat and,
you know, that'd be used to be selected for the team to go to
that. I really wasn't expecting sort
of to get selected at all. And then, yeah, so it came back
that I'd I was getting, you know, getting to go.
And so the World Championships were in Spain in September, just
just gone. And I had a great experience,
like really good team to go away with.
I was really, really nervous about going to that because I'd
had like I'd had quite a few wobbles on, you know, like Greg
Gock and you know, like a little little wobble on Hillvale and
stuff like that. And I was like, Oh my God, what?
I forget to Spain and I just freeze in the middle of this big
massive mountain. But it, it didn't ever sort of
come to that. It was a really great route.
And yeah, and it, yeah, it led to it led to a nomination for
the Scottish Women in Sport Sportswoman of the Year, which,
you know, I don't, I don't have really any ties to anything
with, with Scottish athletics or anything like that because
obviously I'm here and there, man.
It's, it's through Mike Spell Runners, which is England
Athletics. So to get recognition from
something in Scotland really meant like so, so much.
And then when I went to the awards ceremony, like there's
just like people talking about LA 2028 and, you know, all like
set up like whole national charities and just, it was just
brilliant. And like, the guest speaker was
it was Sammy the the pirate athlete talking about, you know,
Tokyo 2020 in Paris. And I just come out of the hall
like proper shell shock, just like so amazing.
Like, and you know, the two girls that I was in the category
with the two cyclists as well. Like when I was looking at I'd
I'd heard of Mia, but I hadn't heard the other girl when I was
looking at their accolades, I was like, have you got the right
Nikki here? Like, Oh my gosh, like I
couldn't, I couldn't believe it. And yeah, so I, yeah, I was,
that was just really like, I was really delighted at that.
And it's just nice to be sort of known that I've been like
mentioned and you know, that sort of area in Scotland.
It's really nice to be recognized in that way.
And for ultra running as well, like for ultra running like, you
know, it's not, it's not always up there, is it as well.
And when they were showing the video of me like sort of
skipping across one of the tops in one of the sky races,
everybody's like, I was like, what is worse than I is, I
promise. So podcast Nikki, when's your
nomination? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're next. Yeah, come on, Nikki, it's your.
You're the second best Nikki on the podcast tonight.
Well, this is true. I'm trying.
I'm very inspired by all the female ultra.
Absolutely blows my mind. But as Mike saying, just for you
to be even nominated for Scott's is it Scottish women?
It's that must have been something else when you got told
that you were nominated. I was so shocked, like honestly
so shocked. And I was like, Are you sure?
Like like read an e-mail like this stuff like there's got to
be wrong. Like how does it even get wrong?
You know, just those sorts of things go through your head a
little bit like of imposter syndrome, I guess.
But you know, when you when you put it down on paper, like I
worked really hard last year. So it's just it's, it's lucky to
get recognised and nominated and, you know, have it pay off
in that way. So that was really special.
So in that you mentioned Manx failed on us.
Is that the club that you're with?
Yes, that is my local fail running club, the Manx Fail
Runners. Yeah.
And they put up with me or have put up with me for the last sort
of four or five years. So, yeah, they're an ace,
really, really great community. And, you know, I sit on the
committee and sort of like help sort of drive the, the junior
section of the, of the Fail running club as well, just to,
you know, get in. It's such an amazing way to be
outdoors, I think fail running and trail running.
And yeah, it's great to have sort of the juniors on board
and, you know, sort of driving, driving that sort of side of
the, the, the club now. So that's been ace.
Yeah, you say put up with, but I think with with your awards and
your your wins, I I think they'll be happy to have you.
I. Hope so.
And Speaking of wins and you know your achievements, where
leads us on to the next question which you've just done Spain,
but that wasn't your first Spain event, was it the Yentl?
What other Spain events have you done and can you talk about
those? Sure.
So I am back in 20. Well, I guess it would be 2023.
My partner did the spine for the first time and I, I got hooked.
I got inspired. I got the dot watching bug and
you know watching sort of the all the, the, the females out on
the route like inspired me to apply for the full spine for
2024. However, I didn't get through
the lottery. I got I was on the waiting list,
but then sort of nine weeks before the full spine sort of
came about, I got an e-mail saying, oh, would you like to
enter the Challenger N, which is starts in Hawes and then there's
160 miles up to Kirk yet home in Scotland.
And I decided even though I didn't have that much training
time, I had like a lot of, you know, stuff behind me from from
that year. So I was like, yeah, I'm going
to, I'm going to go for it and into the challenge N so that was
the longest that I'd done. I'd done 120 in the Kelly way in
the September. And so it was another like good
40 miles on top of what I'd I'd achieved before.
So and I knew it was going to be my first sort of dabbling into
going into the second night and sort of experiencing a bit of
sleep deprivation and stuff like that.
And I figured that'd be a really good sort of stepping stone to
hopefully get in into the full spine when I, when I did.
And so yeah, I, I, I sort of surprised myself on the
challenge in North as well. And you know, I, I ended up
finishing first female, but I finished third overall in the
race behind Joe Leary and Tom Hollands.
I hooked up with them, a bunch of great Irish athletes, SO2
lads. And then Laura Ojresco, a really
established Irish ultra runner, unfortunately Laura had to DNF
with a hip injury and towards the end of the race.
But I am, yeah, sort of pulled away from them because I just,
you know, I, I tend to have a stronger second-half of the
race. If you know me, I'm a negative
split gal. I'm pretty conservative in the
first half and feel stronger in the 2nd.
And I always sort of use that energy to get to the finish
line. So pulled away from them and
yeah, yeah, like, it's a great race.
I learned a lot. And like, say, you know, it was
the biggest distance I'd ever gone.
And yeah. And my actual partner Oren was
out on the full spine at the time, so kept on thinking he was
going to get me. I didn't want that.
So I really special when he came in to the finish last year at
yet home, he proposed on the finish line.
So that was that was super sweet.
So the spine is got so much emotional and physical memories
for us both. Then I asked what you said.
I said no, no, I'm going to ask it.
I actually didn't always doing. I thought it was a little bit
delirious. And I was like, Oh my God, like,
come on, get in. Like get to the hotel, it's
freezing. And then he was just like, just
wait, I've got something in my bag.
And I was like, what is he doing?
Like I was proper confused. Yeah, he did.
He carried it the whole way because he thought he might meet
me out on the trail. So he wanted to do it if he met
me. But I'd, I obviously like sort
of exceeded my expectations as to how I was going to run that
race and then finish quite a bit the forum.
So he never, he never met me. But yeah, it was in the little
likes at the back of his bag the whole way.
Well, leading on from that, this year you ended up doing the full
spine yourself and just to go one up on them, you, you be his
time finishing in 103 hours, 36 minutes and 59 seconds.
That's. Right.
Yeah. So story starts mile 1.
How do they progress? It was very much a roller
coaster and so I'd hadn't reckoned very much of the South
part of the spine. I'd only done maybe about 40-50
miles of it. So I knew it was kind of going
into the unknown. But I had wreckage from out of
Edale and like, I knew I would feel all of a bit of a fluster
because of the the sort of level of the females that were in the
race. I knew it was going to go off
like quite fast and I, I just can't get involved and stuff
like that because it's just not how I I run my races.
Like I'm just, I have to be more chill in the first half or I get
all panicked and flustered. And we climbed all the way out.
Once we got up due to the bladder, it was like the most
beautiful inversion like I've ever seen.
It was absolutely unbelievable. It was so gorgeous, but it was
pretty short lived to be fair. Like the fog came in pretty
pretty soon after that and it was just quite a lot of damp,
greedy, like trudging through snow and slop and, you know,
just hard. There was just hard work that
that first day. I remember sort of thinking to
myself like sort of about four or five o'clock.
Like my legs are hurting. Like I would expect them to hurt
on day three, never mind 7 hours or 8 hours into it.
Yeah. And then once I got to Hebden, I
definitely, I definitely didn't spend enough time there.
Like based on how tired I was, I was all a bit of a like need to
get in and get out, get in and get out.
And it's like a big slog to Check Point to and it's like
60-70, nearly 70 miles really. So like, in hindsight, didn't
spend enough time there. I left with Lucy and had a good
chat with her. You know, she was quite funny.
Like coming out of the checkpoint, she, she, she left
and conferringing back. And like, have I got one pole?
Like, oh, my pole. Did you just give me one pole
and they were all in the flusters?
She's like, oh, just need to get my spares out the drop bag.
So I, I'd like left by this point and all just sat at the,
the end of the stairs at the checkpoint because like I don't,
the checkpoints are the most stressful thing in the whole
spine, I swear. Like they're just a bit manic.
Everybody's a bit like getting sleep deprived and then you're
all ready to go And then you've got to kit check and they give
you like they ask for five random items.
So you've got to undo all your kit bag again, but you're all
dressed to go out in the -2 temperatures and it's boiling
hot and that it's just, it's just such a stressful
environment. So I was just laughing with her
about, you know, how stressed she was.
She was like, I'm such a disaster in the checkpoints.
I'm like, I think everyone is really like, I know some of the
top guys are going in and out, but just the the really hard
work. So yeah, I definitely should
have sat down a little bit longer, had a bit more food in
Checkpoint 1. I think as the race goes on, do
the checkpoints, I guess they get not so busy but you're
getting more tired. How?
Yeah, there's like so when I was in Langdon Beck, it was nice and
quiet because I hadn't caught up to the Challenger N guys yet.
And then I was I was relatively sort of like high up in the pack
of the Fool spine. But then after sort of Langdon
Beck, like Austin and Bellingham and all the sort of interme and
smaller transitionary checkpoints, we're all really be
busy with full spiners and Challenger N So it makes it
really hard to, to navigate. Like Bellingham was manic when I
was, was I was in there, you know, with like, didn't you, you
drop bags are massive, like 20K bags where you got 1 little like
tiny chair and you're trying to like manage all your stuff in
there. And yeah, and like you see
everybody, everybody is like sleep deprived by then.
So it makes it even harder to sort of navigate.
But yeah, that Langbeth was probably the only sort of quiet
checkpoint that I, I was in. I tried to sleep there, but it
was during the day and I just, it was a bit like it was a bit
noisy and just really light and I just didn't, didn't manage to
sleep there. I slept well at Haws.
I was really tired by the time I got to Haws.
I'd had a rough day on the Monday and really dizzy and like
headed and things like that. And when I started to eat in
halls, I was like, this isn't this isn't going well for me
right now. So I'm going to I'm going to
have to go up and go to the toilet.
But I didn't make it. So I fainted in front of
everybody, which was great. Well, I just woke up with just
like the people like shy medic, like sounds like something like
out of the body, something out of the water like and then, but
it's happened to me before. So like it happens to be in
Greg's heart in the challenge and off.
Like I felt really woozy and I was already sat down, but I got
kept in Greg's heart during the challenging offer a little bit
longer than the normal just to sort sort myself out.
So once I'd had sleep in haws, I got up and my body felt like a
lot better, but I was still not feeling like right.
And I was just like just like constantly vomiting in the
toilet, phoning my partner and like, I can't stop being sick.
Like I don't know what to do. And he's like, just get out the
checkpoint. And I was like, right, OK, And
that's what I did. Like I got at the checkpoint and
I and I just sort of bimbled along for a while, like sipping
on high carb gels and, you know, trying to eat little and often.
And I knew I'd moved into sort of like, you know, sort of like
a lower position. But I, I caught up with Sarah
quite, quite quickly and then ran with her for a little bit
and she was struggling with sleep depth and we had a wee
chat and stuff like that. But you just, it's just amazing
how you can rally. Like it's like just crazy.
Like, you know, I really, really thought when I was hugging that
toilet like this is it like, I really thought that this was the
end of my race. Like, and after all that I was
just like, just I can, and I was like, feel better when you get
in fresh air. And I was like, and I did.
And like I say, I've been there before and but it happened to me
in the West Island way, like I just couldn't stop being sick.
And you know, the good thing about the West Island way is
you've got support car nearby, haven't you?
So like, you know, I pushed myself on the West End.
We trying different things because I knew like if anything
happened, my sport car's like, you know, you know, a couple of
miles away. So it's no big issue.
But because I've had that experience, I knew exactly what
I needed to do really. And like I knew that if I sipped
on gels that eventually I'd start to be able to eat again.
And then? By the time I got up to Tan
Hill, even though it was, the weather was wild and it was bog
and rivers washes everywhere, it was really, really hard going.
There's a picture of me in Tan Hill and I just look like, I
don't know, being beat up by something like, but I managed to
eat like loads of soup and bread and have a coffee and then like,
you know, again, sort of rallied and I left with a couple of guys
this time. And that's just nice being able
to chat to people and you know, get, you know, the time just
passes quite quickly. And that sort of went into the
next day and then I got a big massive like wind the next day.
It was like great, you know, I pushed heading towards sort of
like Hadrian's Wall and caught up with loads of people and
chatted with loads of people and just was moving really well.
So that was good. And then there that night was,
it's just the nights were really hard, like the sleep
deprivation, like loads of people talk about like mad
hallucinations. And I really did have like crazy
hallucinations when I was on Crossville.
But the majority of the sleep depth for me was just the
turmoil of trying to stay awake. Like it just your
hallucinations. Let's let's talk about that.
What were you so climbing up to Crossville?
Because it's one of the sort of highest points, isn't it?
So I was climbing up, I was on my own and the wind is picking
up and the rain was coming down starting to get foggy.
But like I really, really couldn't keep my eyes open.
Like, so I sat down. Like I literally just sat down
exactly where I was and like just put my, put my alarm on for
5 minutes just to give my, my head a bit of a break because I
knew like I was going to be climbing and climbing and
climbing for a while. So I sat down and I was like,
right, OK, you know, you don't feel refreshed, but your, your
brain just feels like it can go again.
So I'm climbing and as I'm getting higher and higher, the
fog is getting worse and worse. So I took my head torch off and
was carrying it in my hand and like got my like GPS on my, my
watch and my GPS device in my pocket.
And like literally just, that's all I could do.
There was no path. It was just bog or ice or slush
and the wind was like howling so bad.
And I just was like, I really, really felt like I was going
into oblivion. And I knew I had like a few
little peaks before I would get to Crossville, but those little
peaks up there, instead of them being like white trig points,
they're like rounded piles of rock, I guess.
Not, not, not for me. That night they weren't.
So I'd be getting closer and like the wind would, well, it
was just the wind howling, but in my head it was like just
people screaming. So there's just people screaming
in my ears. And then all of a sudden those
little like mounds would like rise up with like big, massive,
like black arms and they'd be like trying to pull me in, but I
was having to follow the line, which was taking me to the
rocks. And then I'd be getting closer
and closer. My heart be going like
absolutely, like clap is like this is that I'm going to get
sucked in by this big huge demon.
And then it would just turn to a pile of rocks and I'd be like,
here we go again. And then I'd do that and I'd do
that. And I'd literally did that for
what felt like hours until I got on to Crossville, which is a big
massive, like like loads of flat pile of rocks.
And that just had all sorts coming out of it.
And I was just so, so emotionally broken by the time I
got to Greg's heart. Like I'd felt like I was going
to die like 3 or 4 times by getting sucked into these big
massive black demons like that were up there, but it was just
just piles of rock. Did you know you're listening?
I did because every time I got to the rocks they'd change.
I've been talking to like people in my work a bit like maybe like
that was just my brains way of like keeping me alert.
Like because I had adrenaline like 100%.
Like I felt like I felt like I was going to get sucked in by
those demons, like as I was getting closer, but I just kept
like falling the line on my GPS. And then I'd have a little like
lucid moment and I'd be like, this is mental.
I can't believe I'm doing this right now.
Like how many people have done this?
Like just by themselves, like in the middle of the night in a
storm, like just crazy, absolutely crazy.
Like proper pride of myself right now.
But I'm literally at my limit. I just want to ask as well,
Nikki, going back to when you were saying about the sickness
not feeling great and the fainting and everything, how is
it that, you know, you talked about West Highland Way as well
and you knew it happened before, like the first time it did
happen to you on whatever event it was and you were being sick.
How do you know that it wasn't time to pull the plug on the
race and it wasn't sickness and you could carry on?
Did do you just put one foot in front of the other and keep
going or how do you go? So I've had, I've had a really
bad experience of pushing through something that I
shouldn't have on an event on the Isle of Man called the
Parish Walk, which is like an 85 mile walk around all the
parishes on the Isle of Man that you've got 24 hours to complete.
Now I've, I've done it the first year and got 55 miles and then
the second year I've done it and finished it and being fine, had
a great time. So I was going again for the,
the, the third year and I stopped being able to take on
sort of food or fluids quite early on, maybe just over
halfway. And I just kept going because
because of the way like my head was at the time and you know, I
just putting I guess 1 foot in front of the other.
But like how I was feeling and the pains that I was getting
were like another level. But like I say, it wasn't in a
very great place myself personally.
So I just pushed on and I definitely shouldn't.
So I got to mile 83, so I only had two miles to go and I
collapsed and got taken to hospital and I basically given
myself rhabdomyolysis. So that's like when basically
your body's like breaking down your muscles and it releases
loads of like really big proteins and basically blocks
your kidneys and, you know, makes you really poorly.
So I was in hostile sort of four or five days after that.
And it took me like over a year to recover properly from that
and sort of get back to like it was boxing at the time and, you
know, get back to sort of my sport.
And I've just always just said to myself, like, I'd never do
that again. Like I know the like the pains
in my legs that I would get in more like, like nothing I've
ever experienced. And I don't really know why I
thought it was a good idea to sort of push through them.
And my breathing went off funny. And that's probably when I
collapsed, to be fair, because I was like hyperventilating quite
badly. And and so I'd never let myself
get to that point when I was being sick on the West Ham.
We had got to the sort of halfway point and I was going to
can it. I was going to pull the plug
because I wanted to run it. I wanted to race.
And I was just sort of walking, power walking.
And I was like, well, what's the point?
So my partner and I sort of had a chat and he was just like,
well, you know, let's try the gels, like let's just try
stepping on a gel like don't neck it like him 1.
He was like, just step on it and like the next checkpoint on the
West Ham, we was only 10 miles, but it's right next to the main
road. And so if anything really bad
had happened, my, my support car was really close by and I said,
OK, if I can't run over the next sort of 10 miles or I don't pick
up the pace of the next 10 miles, like I'll call it Bridge
of Orkie, which was the next like checkpoint.
And I did, I started to feel energized again.
My legs started going again and I started to be able to take on
full gels. And then by the time I got to
the next checkpoint, I started to be able to take on fruit and
crisps. And then that was it.
Then I had a really good second-half of the race and I
managed to finish second, which was, which was good because I
was back in fifth by that sort of halfway point.
And so because I'd had that experience and also the
experience of it really going wrong, I think I I'm in quite a
good position to know when I need to stop and when I know I
can sort of push through. If it got to a point where I was
sipping on the gels and I still not keeping them down and it
didn't get to the point where I could eat, it's time for me to
call it. But thankfully since I've done
that back, it was 2018, I got wrapped on analysis.
That's never happened and I have managed to rally.
So yeah, it's only because I know myself that I would take
that risk. I guess I wouldn't suggest that
for anybody unless they've been through sort of similar
themselves. Like you only you know when it's
right to to call it. I guess that you you said
earlier about the support car, it made you able to push it
because you knew they were there.
But for a lot of people, they would quit because they knew
they were there. So.
That's the opposite way around. Yeah, maybe, maybe on on the
spine. Is that what happened then after
the faint? And did you just step on the
gels and that was your go to and then that's you.
You can go again and refuel and carry on.
Yeah, Yeah. For for like all of the sort of
second-half of the spine. Like I probably for the first
time ever on a race, like I was starving, like I was hungry all
the time. And I was like, this is great.
Like I was going into the checkpoints and having like full
meals. Like I've never been able to do
that on a race. So like that was a nice sort of
take away from from the spine as well.
Like, you know, that I can actually feel fuel properly.
And you know, I've I very recently started trying the sort
of high carb gels from precision fuel.
They're like 90 grams and they're great.
They've got a little screw top, which is good because I was just
taking a bit of that, putting it in my pocket.
And then 10 minutes later I take a bit more.
And then by that point I was then able to eat like I have
knots and chocolate and Turkish delay and things like that.
So then it was like I could have an actual Turkish delay.
Then it was a handful of knots, then it was a big block of
chocolate, and then it was soup and bread by the time I got to
Tan Hill. So yeah, that that was that was
good. And on the topic of food, how
many portions of Alston Lasagna did you have?
I had two portions of the lasagna, but that was because as
soon as I got in there, I was a little bit broken when I got to
Alston because that was like post Crossville.
And then you come off to a place called Gargrel, but then you've
got 7 K of just like really tough paths and pavement and
it's just a little bit undulate. And then every time I saw a head
torch, I thought it was the the checkpoint and it just wasn't
like there's still people like randomly out of hiking and like,
it's like midnight, like what are you doing?
Go home. Like you're not on display.
And I keep thinking you're people with the checkpoint and
they're not. And that seven K really dragged
on. I was having a pain in like my
right foot as well that I had to.
Well, I took off my shoe any time I was on a road and was
just walking in my sock. And then when I was on the
trails, I'd like pushed down the back of the shoe and was just
kind of using it as like a bit of a flip flop or a slipper.
And so, yeah, I was just really suffering when I got to Austin.
So as soon as I got in there, I was like, I just want a bed.
And he was like, there's not a bed at the moment, but he's
like, I'll give you food. And I was like, OK, give me some
lasagna, please. And then I had another bit and
then I must have fallen asleep at the table because the next
thing was like, my volunteer was waking me up to be like, got
your bed. And so yeah.
And then I went and we planned to sleep for an hour half.
But when my alarm went off after an hour, half I like 100% was
not fit to go. So I had another 20 minutes.
And then I guess like started to wake up a bit because it was
sort of seven or 8:00 in the morning.
And I guess your circadian rhythm started to like kick in a
little bit. And you know, I was ready to go
out into the the day then. So yeah.
And like, say I was well fuelled because I had more toast when I
got up as well. So it was like 2 lasagna
portions, 2, nearly two hours of sleep and then about half a loaf
of bread worth of toast before I left.
So that was good. I'm not sure how far through
your journey where you seem to be jumping about.
We might be on in the right place, but I just I was going to
say I'm jealous because I've run for the longest I've been a week
is 67 hours and I've never hallucinated.
So I'm jealous, yeah. Wow, people have like create
like Oren when he did his like so there's you'll know if you've
ran the pen anyway. There's loads of big slabs.
So even the tedious and then looking at the slabs, thinking
they were like, really, really elaborate neon paintings, like
every single slab. And he'd be like, can't believe
somebody's come up and done all this like painting up here.
And they'd be like, no. And then he looked back down and
he was like, Yep, they're still there just like crazy.
Or like Adam recommends she talks about hers like being like
really like vivid crazy things. Like I've never seen.
Like I saw the demons, but they were very plain.
They were just very like black and shaped.
And then on the Challenger, NI kept seeing people like really
vivid, remember, like really vividly seeing like a person in
a green jacket with a really long camera and then that it
just wasn't a person. Or I remember seeing a couple
sitting in the snow, like having lunch and having like, what are
they doing out here? Like with us, like this isn't it
wasn't people. But I've never had like vivid
things that some people see, like dinosaurs, don't they?
And you know all sorts, but I can't believe you've been awake
for 67 hours and nothing. I can't wait to find out if I
hallucinate because I've ever ran in that case, 42 miles.
So you got. The closest I've been is running
along and sort of seeing something out of the corner of
my eye looking over and Oh no, I just, I didn't see it properly.
And when I actually look at it, it's not that.
So I don't see. I don't count that as
hallucination because it's just you not paying attention
properly. Yeah.
That's that's a long, that's a
long time to go. Asleep.
Yeah. Crazy.
Yeah. Where?
Where, How far up the country were we in your story?
So, yeah, we we're at Austin, which is checkpoint 344.
Checkpoint four. Yeah.
So there's only one more checkpoint, which is Bellingham
or Bellingham. And I'm not too sure people
pronounce it different. So that the bit from Austin, I
left it was like sort of eight, 9:00 in the morning.
And it's just a bit of a, it's a bit of a slog.
I find that section, it's just, you know, loads of fields and
running along the canal and a train line and things like that
just a bit, a bit see me and a bit boring.
And I was by myself again. And so Oren just gave me a call
and he was just just chatting about, you know, this person's
just behind you or this person in front of you or this
challenging off person here. Or like I'd run with a guy
called Harry for a bit like he's only 2K in front of you or these
sorts of things. And it just sort of gave me a
bit of a boost to like, do you know what?
I just really want some company. So just sort of turned the gas
on a little bit to try and catch up with just anybody.
But once I sort of got into that, flow started to run really
well. And I ran really well to Green
Hairs, which then takes you on to Hadrian's Wall.
And as I got to Hadrian's Wall, like Damien Hall and Ally Bailey
were there. And Ally gave me like a quick
interview. And, you know, I had some
Pringles from the safety team and again have another sort of
waste of life. I knew the Hadrian's Wall was
tough from having done it in the challenging off last year.
But I didn't see that many people last year on Hadrian's
Wall. It was really snowy and there
wasn't that many people in front of me.
Whereas this year there was lots, lots of people like it
because it's a nice day and there was lots of challenging
off people. And, and that was when I, I
caught up with Simon and Chris, who I ran with for quite, quite
a while. And, and they initially let me
pass and then they were like, actually, we're going to come
with you. And I was like, they're fine.
Like come, come. Like I'm happy with the company.
And yeah, I stuck with them for like really long time, like all
the way to sort of bayonets. Like we were all sort of tuning
and froing together. And I left bayonets with Chris,
which is the, the transitionary checkpoint before the TV.
It's where you get men some ties.
It's a great little checkpoint, but you only left half an hour
there. So I slept for probably about 20
minutes of that half an hour and and used the other sort of 10
minutes to sort of fill my water and have my food and stuff and
then set off into the Cheviots. Bellingham was a bit of a
disaster. I tried to sleep there, but like
I was saying earlier, it's it's so busy.
It's just a bit chaotic. There's there's not much room in
the the area with the drop bags and then the room where you
sleep. It's just a big empty sort of
cold hall. And I tried to sleep, but I was
just sort of tossing and turning cold and not that comfortable.
And I just ended up like, I didn't even, I don't think I
fell asleep because I got up before my alarm and stuff like
that and just was like, I need to get out here type thing.
And I'd said to myself, like, I'll sleep at Baroness if
Baroness if I need to, wish I did because I really don't need
to. That was a long, like a long
slog, even though it's not that far in distance.
It just felt like it was really hard work.
The church. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you can, you can sleep in the actual little checkpoint, but
then you can just the church is just behind it where you can
sleep. You know, people bunk in there
as long as you let race HQ know. But like I say, when I left by
an S, like it literally was like 7 seven in the morning. 5 past 7
was when we left and the sun was just coming up and I really did
feel like my circadian rhythm kick in.
And as I started to make that sort of climb.
So you go along the road a little bit and then you go off
into start to make the climb up into the TV.
It's like I pulled away from Chris and I was just like, this
is it like here we go like I'm going to the end now.
And I got up on the top right as the sort of sun was I guess just
cresting and it was just a really special like moment.
And that is when I started to cry.
And I pretty much cried for the whole of the next 20 miles.
Like, just, I don't know. It was like I knew it was going
to finish. And I wasn't.
I wasn't saying. I just, I just couldn't stop.
Like, it's just you're so tired. And I just couldn't stop.
Or him phoned me about lunchtime and then pretty much just hung
up because he was like, I can't understand the word you're
saying. And I was like, OK, all the
time. It's not coming out my nose and
crying everywhere. And just, yeah, I had a bit of a
break at hot 1 and they made me a coffee and hot chocolate and
had a wee chat with them in there and that was good.
I felt sort of re energized again to head to hot 2.
It seems like that daft because it's only so it's 9 miles to hot
1 and then it's 9 miles to hot 2 and then it's about just under 7
miles to the finish. But those 9 miles just seem so
long. They just like, they feel like
they don't, they're never ending.
It's quite seamy up in the Cheviots as well.
And it kind of feels a little bit like you're going the same
direction or the same way all the time.
And I did quite a lot of the Cheeviots in the dark last year.
And I remember just thinking to myself holding my phone like
race each here going to call me because I'm going backwards on
the route or I'm all going off route like I wasn't.
It just like just feels that way.
Because it's quite seamy up there.
But it was really windy and it was quite cold, but really
gorgeous, like beautiful sunny day.
So that that was nice. Not that I took any advantage of
it because it's snotting and sobbing the whole time.
But when you get to hot too, and you know that that's the last
point. Because when you don't watch on
the map, it looks. In fact, when I went down to the
finish line last week just for a nosey, I actually considered but
how far it is hot too. And it's like 6-7 miles as you
say. And I think, you know, I
wondered if I could run that or go along getting that and I
thought, no, I'll just, yeah. What's that like when you've
done that much mileage? Like does it feel like really
close or does it still feel so far away?
Like when you get see that last very last section?
Yeah. What's that like once you get to
hot too, you've still got quite a big climb to go called the
shell. And that seems to take forever
because you are knackered and it's quite a climb.
It's quite steep. It's, you know, it's quite, it's
quite high. It was really windy.
And when I got to the top I'd had been having, like I was
saying, I have a problem with my shoulder and like just my, my
bag and the sort of tracker banging against the bone in my
shoulder. So I was carrying my bag sort of
down on my, my arm like that. So but when I got over the shell
and I started to to descend, my bag popped open on the right
hand side. I was like, Oh my God, like it's
7 miles to go and now my bag is like popped and I was like, it's
only 7 miles but like I can't run with like the bungee.
It was like it was flapping about all over the place.
And I was like, just wanted to get home, but I had to like,
stop and take it off and like tie all the bungee back
together. And that just felt like, you
know, the sort of a big slap in the face like before I
descended. But once I started descending, I
just, I let sort of gravity do its work.
Like my feet were hurting, but my legs were in good condition
really considering how far I'd come.
And I, I moved really quickly on from hot 2 to the finish faster
than what I did on the Challenger North as well, which
is interesting. It took me like just under 2
hours to get to the finish from hot 2, which it took me two
hours and like 10 minutes or something on the Challenger N.
So I really did put a bit of put a little Duracell battery and
when I sorted my bag out and just wanted it to be over, like
I'm just going to let gravity do the work here and pull me down
the hill. So it does it, I think between
hot 1 and hot 2 feels the longest though, like those 9
miles are rather rough and but then all of a sudden you see hot
2, but it's at the top of a top of a hill, which is annoying as
well. So you got to go up and then you
descend down, then you go back up to hot 2, then you go down a
little bit and then you go up to the shell.
So it's quite a lot of like that on the last bit as well, which
is which is hard. Yeah, sure.
When I was watching the tracker it was about four hours or
something for that 9 miles between the two huts.
Yeah, it's it is hard work. So how how slow?
Like are you barely walking or how slow is it at that point?
So between sort of the Bionessen Hot one, I was trying my very
best to hold 3 miles an hour. And I was just like, like
breaking it down in my head to that was like 3 hours, then
three hours, and then sort of 2 1/2 or another three hours.
I'm like, I can do it. That's a whole day.
Like because I'd left in the morning, I was like gonna be
home before tea time. And I just kept that in my head.
You're definitely, I'm not running any of the hills at any
point on the spine, to be honest, like I'm, I'm hiking all
of them. But I was doing my very best to
just like sort of shuffle sort of 1918 minute miles.
And that's pretty good going at that sort of stage.
And yeah, and I, and I did, I did maintain that I was way
faster, like I said on that those those 7 miles towards the
end than what I had been between the, the huts.
But I definitely just really was on survival by that point.
Like just want to get in. Like I just want to be on that
finish line. I've visualized it so much now,
like I just want to be, I just want to get home.
So when my bag burst, I honestly was like I was absolutely
devastated that the the world had done that to me at that
point and only had like 4 miles by that point because you you've
done a little bit of this sudden by then I was human.
But yeah, like. When we get to the finish, yeah,
I'll ask an unconventional question.
You said you you are crying for the last 20 miles.
How much salt do you think you lost?
More salt during that than normally running?
100% like I dried out like all that bit in my skin as well.
Like you should've seen the state me when I come in.
Like all my lips were really dry.
My nose was like, you know, like if you'd had the cold or the flu
for like a week. That is what my nose was like.
I'm like so attractive right now.
And so yeah, I definitely, definitely was super dehydrated.
Like it's funny because I don't know if you saw like Hannah,
Hannah Rickman and put out a really, really good blog about
her DNF, but she talked in it about like cold and juice, like
diuresis. And I was like, oh, Hon.
Like I get like I literally on that last day, it was peeing
like every two seconds as well. I was just like, if I've got any
fluid left in my body when I get to this finish line, it's going
to be a miracle. Yeah.
So it's funny. Yeah, it is funny.
I had proper dried out my skin with my own tears.
And then you're finishing the course.
You're coming down that last little hill.
You turn the trees in the corner and then you see the finish line
and the hotel and what's that like?
I just, I was just like so happy to, I could hear, like I could
hear the sort of hustle and bustle.
And then, you know, my mom's very well known for being
extremely loud at finish lines. So I knew she like spied me in
the horizon that I'd be able to hear it.
But there's quite a lot of people in the hill as well.
And and then there was a photographer had come up and I
was just like, just, I'll just jump in his car and like get a
lift to the finish. And I was like, so I just think
that to myself, like, why did I think that?
Like after all that, I'll just get a lift smell like what the
hell? And so, yeah, just so, so tired.
But just like so elated to like becoming in a kid.
Like when you can see the Montagne like things that's just
like, so excited. And I I stopped.
You'd think that would be the point at which I did actually
cry, but I didn't. I was just dead happy by that
point. Like I was more excited to
finish and I was a little bit like TD on the finish line, but
not like what I was going on and phoned me at lunchtime.
Anyway, is that? Because you didn't have any
fluids left, so you. Can't, yeah, probably
completely. There's nothing to go, nothing
left. I feel quite bad because there's
two guys coming in from the challenge and north like
literally just in front of me. But I was like sorry, I'm not
stopping for anyone. I just overtook them like right
before the the tunnels. But yeah, it's just like, I
just, I just want to finish now. And yeah, it was nice because
Lucy had run with a guy called Tim, so she had come out to see
for quite a long bit of the race.
So she'd come out to see Tim and then had waited to see me coming
in as well and had chat with her.
And yeah, there's just like, yeah, there's just loads of
people there all just being really nice.
And like Autumn was there and his two girls were there and my
mum was there. It was just, it was just ace.
And then quite a lot of the guys that I'd sort of ran to and from
from were all inside the hotel as well.
So it's nice to catch up with them and, you know, see them
all, you know, happy that they've got the finish and
everybody's heart of explaining war, war stories and looking at
each other's feet and how disastrous they all look.
And, you know, I've got a picture of me and you, Hahu, who
ran for quite a bit together. And Oh, my God, we look like
we've been stung by bees, Like a face of that, like, swollen.
Yeah. But yeah, it's that touching
that wall is just, you think about it so much in the race,
like, you feel like it'll never come.
Particularly on that last day. It really feels like it will
never come. So when you actually get to do
it, it's just elation but also relief that it's over.
But you didn't just finish, you grabbed the podium place as
well. Yes, yeah.
And that really was like, I, I've had aspirational goals of
hopefully finishing within the top five just just because of
the level of the other girls in the race.
And you know, like, that's Hannah, like Sarah Perry, Robin,
like obviously Lucy and Hannah have experience in the spine.
And then Robin's just an absolutely incredible athlete
and knew she would start really, really strong.
Sarah obviously being a backyard like champion, she used to sleep
depth and, you know, going for long periods of time and really
big mileages. And she's got a lot of FTS as
well. And then there was Elaine Bison
was in the race too, and she's very established on the penalty.
Like to get in the top five would have been like, like I
say, was an aspirational goal other than like the main goal,
which was just to get the finish because nothing were given in
these races. Like, you know, like anything
can happen. Like one sort of really bad roll
of your ankle and you're done. Really.
Like you can't, you know, if it's a bad sort of injury, you
can't plod on for 268 miles because you you put yourself out
for the whole year, which is not something I'd want for myself.
So to finish in the top three, like as like absolutely
delighted. Now I was a good few.
I definitely like plenty hours behind Lucy and I was still a
good few hours behind Robin. But when I consider how you sort
of rough my first two days where like, you know, I'm I'm lucky
that I did podium. And you know, it's such a shame
that Hannah did have to DNF when she did.
But like to say nothing's a given in these races and, you
know, you just never know what's going to happen.
I guess that's part of the draw of them.
That's why we go back and it's the problem solving and the
challenges and it's the, you know, overcoming the adversity.
So, yeah, snatching a little podium place.
Like I say, it was absolutely amazing.
And and you know, I I just couldn't, I couldn't believe it
really. I knew it was going to finish in
3rd. But when I realized that that
was going to happen, I was like, I can't believe I'm going to be
on the podium with like, go see. And that's mad.
Well, when you do start and finish, I'm just wondering, out
of curiosity, do you have to have any sort of medical checks
and things like that? Do they weigh you at all or no?
They don't do anything like that sort of pre or post race,
obviously. Like when I fainted, they took
my blood sugar, they took my blood pressure, they did my
heart rate and what else did they do?
They did something else and then they did it again when I left as
well. So they wouldn't have like my
blood pressure was too low or my blood sugar was too low, but
everything was sort of back to normal, even even though I was
still vomiting in the toilet like constantly.
But all of all of that was like sort of fine.
And that is another like, I guess another reason why it was
OK to sort of push on when I did because like, I I had sort of
like a good idea that my body was all right.
There was just something not quite sitting right, obviously
in my stomach, you know, done 108 miles, really tough
conditions, you know, not used to sort of sleep depth like that
before. And yeah, it just, yeah, that
was another reason, like really trusted the medics and the medic
that treated me at was had also treated me last year during the
calms run off. And he was like, I remember you
like you chopped your bowl of pasta at these.
You were like Keeling over like, all right, OK, sorry for me,
everybody. But that was good because he
knew that obviously that had happened last year.
And I've said still went on to do well in the race.
So that that gets helped as well.
They're really they're really great.
The sort of medical team that are in all this sort of
checkpoints. They, you know, you, you trust
them. And, you know, it was, it was
sort of good to be able to be like, yeah, I'm going to go and
just see how I get on. That sounds really, really
organized. And I suppose that's where a lot
of the event entry goes, you know, because it is such a big
race. Yeah.
And even when I looked into it just for moan research and what
have you, you've got to have quite a lot of experience to
enter the full one anyway, haven't you?
Yeah, IA 100%. Like it needs to be vetted.
Like it's too, too tough not to be like it really.
Like obviously people do it in, in the summer and it's a little
bit of a different race, but conditions of the food can still
be really tough. But just the, the weather like
it's, it's another level. And obviously you've really got
way less light and in the winter as well.
So you're spending the majority of it and in the dark.
So that's different to running it in the summer.
It's not. I'm really like, I'd obviously
applied in 2024 to get into the Fool, but I'm so glad that I had
had the challenging off behind me before doing the Fool.
Like I was really naive to what the actual Fools thing was.
Like I'm like, yeah, or you can do, I can do it.
Yeah, no, absolutely not like having that.
I guess I did do quite like a relatively gradual build up like
I'd done on 100 mile and then I'd done 120 mile and then I did
160 mile and now obviously I've done like plus 200 mile.
So like it was a big, big jump from the Challenger N to the the
sort of fuel. But like I'd done quite a nice
gradual build up to the 160. So what's another couple of 100
miles? So would that be your best
advice? So I'm just thinking for an
absolute Novus like myself sitting and all watching you
guys and Oh my goodness, you know the full spy.
I've said for myself personally, something like that I don't
think I can ever envisage myself doing while my kids are still
young because it's a lot of time to take away from the fat.
Even anyone without kids, that is a long time to take away from
life and being in that bubble. Would you advise just you keep
on building the distances and just keep at it?
Yeah, I think like, you know, everybody's different,
everybody's circumstances are different, but like you have to
invest the time. It's not just money and kit and
things like that. It is like, you know, big goals
require big commitments and you know, big, big time commitments
is is one of the main things. And for me, like can like a few
years of consistent training of building up my mileage, like
really sort of the main thing I think it's helped has been my
recovery. Do you mean like, you know, I, I
bounced back like pretty well. And you know, you can jump to
these big mileage, but I feel that your body would suffer for
longer periods of time. Whereas if you've got
consistent, like long periods of time of consistent mileage and
gradually building it up to like, you know, big mileage per
week, then you know, you're, you're, you're standing on the
start line knowing that you've done everything that you can.
I don't think so. If anything, I don't think any
distance is out of people's reaches.
It's, it's just, it's the circumstance that they find
themselves in at the time and what they can advance invest in.
But with these big races, it's, you know, people keep on saying,
you know, is it physical or mental?
And I'm like, it is both, But it is mostly mental.
Like your body can do what your brain tells it to like 100%.
That's how I managed to put myself in the hospital for five
days because I kept telling myself to keep going, you know,
like that my body was doing everything to get me to stop.
And that's why that's why I collapsed in the end.
You know, it was like that sort of survival mechanism, you know.
So like, if you've got strong minds, you know, as long as
you're making the cut offs in these races, which the people at
the back of the race like chasing them cut offs.
There's something else as well. Like, you know, when we're
finishing on Thursday and I was like one of one of my friend's
friends was still out on the race.
C JS name was and he's still out.
I was just like, Oh God, I feel sick of the thought of like
people still being out on the route.
Like it just, and then if you think of like Kim, who's
finishing like lunchtime on Wednesday as well, like people,
he people have done double the time on the route is what he
has. And oh, it's just crazy,
absolutely crazy. But like I say, I don't think
it's out of anyone's reach really.
But it's just like you say, it's a, it is a big commitment and a
big time investment. But if it's in your head like
it's, you're halfway there really, in my opinion.
Well, one of the things that you've got that a lot of people
won't is a previous experience of a different sport, boxing,
and like, how does the pain compare?
How does the mental training compare?
Do you think that actually helped you?
I, I do think boxing has helped me a lot with regards to sort of
mental toughness. And you know, I think the good
thing about ultra running is it's sort of you against the
race. You know, there's a way there's
like the difference with boxing is like not everything is under
your control really where because you've got an opponent
in front of you and you've got no idea like where they're at at
that point in time. Whereas if you control
everything in the run up to a race, yes, things can happen.
But like a lot of the time it's just you getting for me to be.
Whereas from boxing, you know, there's quite a lot of
uncontrollables there And but the pain, it's very different
because I mean, like the longest I did was 3 * 3 minute rounds
when I was a lead. But then 3 minutes feels like 30
miles on an option because you're at 100 miles an hour.
Like, you know, I'm trying to keep out of the way of other
people's punches as well. So I absolutely loved fighting
like it was I loved the sort of I just loved fighting.
That was like sort of my sort of favorite part.
I loved the training and I loved going away to sort of box.
And the community is different. It's not as friendly as I'm sure
you can imagine until the bell rings at the end.
And then you're like best pals with the person in the ring as
well. And, you know, I still speak to
a lot of the girls that I did box with and a lot of the sort
of things I overcame in boxing have, you know, sort of
transpired into being able to push through things and ultra
running. You know, like my very second
fight, I I got absolutely battered and concussion, burst
eardrums, all the things that, you know, you don't want to
happen on your second ever fight.
But again, it was having that sort of really rough experience
quite early on that meant that nothing else kind of phased me.
I'm like, well, if I can stay standing when I'm getting all
that sort of flung at me. And then I, we ended up getting
bout of the night because she sort of gasped a little bit and
I came back and then we just absolutely went toe to toe for
three rounds. Like, you know, it's just, it
does give you sort of, I guess just confidence and in your
ability. And but I've definitely got
muscle memory still for boxing. But if I went into the boxing
session tomorrow, I'd be dying for the next like four or five
days with like DOMS in my arms and things like that.
So, but I'm still involved in boxing, but purely sort of admin
based now. Like I'm secretary for the Isle
Man Boxing Association and you know, yeah, just on the
Commonwealth Games, like I'm team manager for boxing as well,
which is, which is great to be able to sort of be in and around
the sport whilst trying to avoid having black eyes and bus noses.
That was going to be my next question.
Do you still box at all? But no, no, just just an admin
role now. You get you get sports getting
mixed up together, like running in golf or chess in boxing.
How about running in boxing? Do you think that you could go
one round after running the spine?
Yeah I do. I don't know if many boxes can
run the spine, but I definitely think I could box post running
the spine. Is that just because you can't?
You've gone past the pain barrier, you can't feel anything
anymore? Yeah.
Totally numb now your boxing gloves are just going to slide
up all the snot on my face anyways.
So when you're running training events, things like that, do you
listen to music at all or do you just run without and just think
of whatever comes into the heads?
I do that both, particularly when I'm sort of training for a
big event, just because I know on a big event, like I like to
be switched on quite a lot of the time and you know, running
through the night, I tend not to listen to anything because I'm
worried that people will show that I'm going the wrong way for
that. And but me personally, I don't
get bored of music. Like I know some people can only
listen to it for a certain period of time, but like if I
was going out for an 8 or 10 sort of our training run, like I
could listen to music like the whole time, like it, I just
don't get bored of it. I absolutely adore music and I
get a lot from it as well. Like it really sort of drives me
when I need it. And I had it on nearly all of
the sort of last day through the Cheviots.
And like I'd seen a video, I can't remember when.
It must have been like a couple of years before I'd I'd met Oren
and I watched a girl talk about how she'd asked her friends for
like a spine playlist and then so that she could listen to it
in times of need on on the spine.
So I did that this year and that's the playlist that I
played on the last day. And it just, there's so many
like just good memories and people that like it reminded me
of and like just, it was really a really sort of nice sort of
motivator and just good vibes. Really like even though I was
crying and sobbing my heart out, like it just like, it was just
like a bit of a comfort really. And it was a really nice way to
sort of drive myself into the finish as well.
But yeah, so I'm very much the sort of music person.
If I can listen to music on a race, I will, particularly if
it's, if it's not a big ultra and I'm not running through the
night, like I'll, I'll have my tunes in for sure.
But like I, I do use it, it is sort of time, time off like as
well. Like I try not to think too much
about about too much because it's switch off time and, and,
and my sort of book, you know, some people use it to go and
sort of clear their head. Like I'm, I'm just using it to
sort of go and think of nothing other than breathing and where
I'm putting my feet. So yeah, yeah.
But I do love my music. Yeah.
People ask me, what do you think about when when you're running,
you're not listening to me? I don't know.
Yeah. Nothing I also think about.
Something it's gone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm like that as well. Like I don't, it's just it's
great solitude. Like I love running with people
like don't get me wrong, but like I'm quite happy to go out
for hours and hours and hours by myself as well.
And yeah, which is probably one of the reasons why I've got into
ultra running too. So yeah, you see, Mike, about
what you think about when running.
When Nikki was saying about a partner proposing at the end of
the spine, I think he was thinking about, is that still in
my back? I know.
I think it's so bold, isn't it? Like, imagine I couldn't deal
with the absolute trauma of worrying and I'd be checking it
in two seconds. Can I feel it?
Can I feel it?
Would you have a kitchen? Can we even put it in a pocket
though? Because you'd fly out somewhere,
wouldn't it? Like, Oh no, yeah, that's very
brave doing that. Mike, you were saying about a
cat Check there the. The ring, like he's got a list
of things. You've got this, this and this,
and you have to have the ring. Engagement ring, definitely.
So now you've done the Spain and you've done some Pig events
already, have you got anything? I would imagine you've got quite
a lot that you still want to tick off on your list, be it
bigger or smaller. Yeah, that, I mean, as I like
sort of dream races like I'd love, I've applied to get into
Western states for a few years now and still not getting in the
lottery again. That was sort of one of the, you
know, I read about it in a bit before I sort of got into ultra
running and sort of really, really drawn to the race.
So I'd love to get into Western states, but UTMB was one of like
my sort of pinnacles of wanting to get into to get into and I
managed to qualify last year when I, when I came third in
UTS. So I'm going to UTNB this
August, which is really exciting.
I'm absolutely buzzing to be able to be on the start line for
that race and such an iconic sort of trail race.
And you know, UT people have, there's fans of UTNB and people
who don't like UTNB. But like that route is just so
iconic in trail running that I just, I just, I'm really excited
to go. So I've got that sort of on the
cards. I'd love to do, I'd love to do
something long again like that, you know, but possibly not the
spine more maybe sort of thinking something in
Switzerland or to Du Jontz or, you know, something along those
lines. You know, somewhere where it's a
bit more of a adventurous route with lots more nice things to
look at rather than lots of farm fields and canals and chains and
things like that. So yeah, they're, they're sort
of all in the cards. Like hopefully I'd love, like to
like I say to get to get into Western states.
And then if I got into Tour de John, it's like I could then get
into Hard Rock and start playing the lottery for that and things.
So there's loads. There's loads.
Yeah. Like I could, you know, there's
loads I'd like to do. I'd love to do a race before.
And so we've chatted about, you know, doing the race course
Switzerland, which you can do is like a mixed pair.
And so I'm 40 next year. So that's sort of like maybe a
little bit of a, you know, 40th birthday goal.
So, but haven't done any of the rounds yet either.
So like, I'd love to do the Ramsey round, obviously being
Scottish, but you know that like Bob Graham and Patti Buckley is
online sort of radar as well. And this is the new round of
Scotland, the Martin Moran Foundation round, which looks
really good all around. Torridon.
Yeah, this is, I mean, if I packed in my job tomorrow, I
definitely would not be like sitting about doing nothing,
that's for sure. But yeah, I think this year the
big ones, sort of like I've ticked off one of my big A races
already, which is great. So the next one's UTMB in
August, but I'm hoping to do some of the Sky Running series
as well. I'm going to go to do the 14
Peaks in Wales in June. And yeah, and then just yeah,
sort of some local races and yeah, sort of build to being
ready to run about the Alps. Sounds amazing.
What amazing races you've got coming up.
Yeah, I'm, I'm really lucky. I'm in a really great position.
That probably leads on to a. A later question was what is
next? Yeah.
You've got, is it UTMB? Is that your next one?
So my next one will be the mountain marathon that I I
mentioned earlier. So that's like the local sort of
ultra race that goes from north to South.
So that's Easter weekend and so that gives me a nice amount of
time to sort of recover properly.
Like it really did take me quite a while to recover from the
Challenger North and was like physically I was sort of ready
to get back to it, but mentally I wasn't sort of ready to tackle
really hard training or big mileage yet.
So I've, I've sort of given myself enough time to just build
nice and slowly and you know, the race isn't until April.
So that sort of gives me quite a lot of February to just take my
time and then sort of switch it on maybe 6 to 8 weeks before the
race, which is nice. And then that sort of leads
quite nicely into the race in June, which is part of the Sky
running race. And then that leads quite nicely
into to UCMB in August. But I've got so you know, idea
I'd quite like to do a backyard ultra.
I'm quite drawn to that sort of event as well, but I'm not sure
when that might slot in. You know, UTMB again, it's, it's
a big time investment. It's actually quite, quite a
costly event to go to and, and, and actually enter.
So that's got to get a lot of my focus.
So I wouldn't want to go and do a backyard just before heading
to UTMB, but maybe maybe a bit later in the year.
There's some backyards that are quite late on in the year that
might might find real self starting.
If you just got me interested, you're talking about the spine
and all that, but now that you're talking about backyards,
I've, I've done 10 of them. No way.
Wow, which? So which ones have you done?
Which ones have I not done? I did Russell Bock last.
Year. 42 hours and that, so I won that.
But no, I'll talk to you about it after.
The. Because this is not about me,
this is about you. So.
I get excited about these things as well.
Yeah, no, we've got a lot to talk about, so.
Something just popped into my head there that we've not
actually really properly said post spine.
How is recovery going like? Have you?
This is an insane question to ask from myself.
Have you been out for a run since at all?
I did go today for my first one, which is like a full week of
like nothing. I went on a little just dead
easy sort of lunch 1 today. Just just more, probably more
for my head rather than everything rather than anything
else, you know? I I found like myself in the
afternoons in particular. I'm feeling really tired, so
having a little run lunch today helped with sort of motivation
this afternoon. And I'm just going to run every
other day for now. And I'm not going to do anything
if I don't feel like it. Like I said, I'm not going to
rush, rush back, you know, like I just going to take it easy and
just wait until I sort of switch back my focus to hard training
again. Other than that, like recovery's
been pretty good. Like I didn't, I had a pretty
bad cough when I finished and so my my first night's sleep was
really disturbed and I was freezing cold, but I was in a
terrible like night fever and that wasn't a fun night.
I slept better on the Friday night and then, you know, the
night sweats seem to keep coming.
But other than that, like I had, like I told you about the pain
in my foot that I had to take my shoe off or like the still a
little bit swelling there, you know, when I wake up in the
morning putting my trainer on, it's pretty painful.
But it settles. It's, it's just, it's just
little niggles. You know, it's done nearly 270
miles, haven't you? Like, your body's been through
through a lot and slows, slows my brain.
So, yeah, I, I, I'm pretty pleased with how well I have
recovered, to be honest. Like, and I guess that's just
like I've seen earlier. It's testament to, you know,
consistent training and good physical prep and, you know,
that sort of stuff. So.
Yeah. Right.
What are the last questions? What I'll probably ask you is,
do you have anybody fictional alive, not with us anymore that
you would love to have a run with?
And I was like, you know, when you sent those questions, you're
like, that's a great question because I initially was a little
bit like, I don't know. But then when I thought about it
properly, there was like tons of people that are supposed to go
for a run with. And I think like, I know it
sounds a little bit cliche, but like a lot of the girls that I
met on the spine, like I'd love to actually have a proper, like
run in a chat with. You know, I only very briefly
talked to Lucy. I only briefly talked to Sarah.
And, you know, I talked to Ally Bailey like a couple of times,
but it was sort of fleeting, you know, sort of interviews and you
know, I, I talked to Hannah briefly in the checkpoint, but I
was a bit out of it and, and she had just DNF D and we've
messaged since, same with Mel. And but I'd love to go like with
that little like crew of girls and just have like a big chat
And English Mccolgan is another like Scottish runner who I I
sort of like inspires me all the time.
Like that, that race where she's like coming and you know, in the
Commonwealth Games where she's coming into the finish and just
like giving absolutely everything like that's so much
grit. Like I always think about that
in my speed sessions to like get me to the through the 3rd, the
final episode. I'd love to meet her and the big
sort of American girls as well would be great.
Like Courtney Dwalter, you know, Katie Scheid, like, you know,
there's loads of people like that I'd love to run with.
But I did have a really good chat with Kim Collision and
Ketchik, and he was really nice and he'd be a great person to
have a run with Jack Scott, Tom Evans, Damon Hall.
And I'm free for a run with everybody, Anyone anyway, feel
free. So yeah, just like, yeah,
there's so many people. I think it's quite hard to sort
of pinpoint, but the spine girls would be a nice like a nice one
to to do or Hailish if she took her around in the hill man.
I'm sure you'll get to run with them at some stage because I was
like that last year with quite a few people and I've been lucky
enough now that I've ran with quite a few.
It's a bit surreal when you do actually get to, it's quite
cool. I felt like that when I first
chatted with Sarah Perry and I said, my God, Sarah Perry, you
know, I've followed like I've done, followed so many of like
our fastest known times and our backyards.
And like, you know, she's obviously again, she'll go to
begs now and she's been the UK like champion.
Like she just, she's a teacher as well, which was like my
background. And I was just like, you know,
I, I don't know, I just felt like before I met her, I felt
like I knew her well, even though I didn't.
But she was so nice when I chatted with her on the trail as
well. And it was just like, really.
Yeah. She just is like, I think she's
like a crazy strong woman, which was which was nice.
And Lucy was just just so much fun and just full of energy and
just like, hilarious as well. And I did like, I didn't get a
chance to chat with Robin. But again, we've messaged, you
know, just tell, you know, giving each other sort of well
done and you know, hope to see you soon type thing.
But yeah, like a free for anyways.
Well, one, one last question for me, Nikki and I have some more,
but was there any one piece of kit that you said you think was
essential or saved your race in this year's spine?
For me, it was those 90 car jails.
Good to know you grand car of gels.
And I also had a really, really good waterproof and insulated
jacket. I had a mountain Equipment
waterproof, a Firefox or something, it's called, which
was just spot on. And my Columbia insulated jacket
was super lightweight, packed really well into my kit.
But when I was freezing, like I say, I was boiling within sort
of 10 minutes. And you know, I'd been so wobbly
that that body heat was like something that I really needed
at the time. But yeah, those precision fuel
gels were were great. And my Turkish delight, yeah.
But I definitely would advise like, you know, investing in a
really good waterproof jacket. I had an innovate jacket last
year, which was great, but it's sort of done after the spine, if
you know what I mean, because it was it was quite snowy and wet
and wild. Like it's some of the some of
the race last year, whereas some amount of equipment, rain jacket
is, you know, looks good as new and it's ready to go.
We're ready to go again for the Alps.
Good. Well, we're going to wrap it up
there. You stay on the line and we'll
talk about backyard ultras in a minute.
Yeah, that's. Great.
Thank you for joining us and thank you for podcasting Nikki,
for being Nikki. And that wraps up from me.
Thank you for joining us. No problem.
Thank you.