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Hello and welcome to another 
episode of Run Till You're Done.

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This week's guest has got a 
fascinating run in history and 

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as one of Scotland's finest 
ultra runners. 

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Not only that, he is a coach and
a mentor to the next generation 

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and adults alike. 
Welcome to the show, Robert 

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Thunder. 
Thank you very much, Nikki. 

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Using my Sunday name as well. 
Enjoy it. 

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Hi Mike, how are you? 
I'm. 

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Very good. 
Thank you. 

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Get right to the point. 
First question to ask everybody 

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is how did you get into running?
OK, so I've I've had a go at 

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this twice in my life as a as a 
teenager, the village I was 

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brought up and it was a small 
mining village in South 

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Lanarkshire and had a rodent and
club. 

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All the adults that a lot of Rd.
drawing. 

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You can imagine all the short 
shorts in the 80s as well and 

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they're really tight vests and 
the silver shadows. 

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I think the Nike silver shadows 
is what they all wore rather 

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than this Nike would you got 
nowadays the vapour flies and 

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alpha flies and all that. 
It's all silver shadows. 

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So if a guy set this up and I 
had so much energy, my, my 

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parents just said that when he 
kicked you along to the kids 

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section. 
And so yeah, I took it, I went 

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along and absolutely loved it 
straight away. 

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Lots of like, like now a lot of 
people with their own sort of 

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mindset, you know, So it was 
good for that. 

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And, and then we eventually the,
the adults would go away to 

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races all the time, half 
marathons, 10 KS all across the 

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country. 
And they just take all the kids 

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with them and we'd all go and do
the fun runs and things like 

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that. 
So there was nothing like track 

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or anything that involved. 
It was always just a bit of road

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running about how running as 
well they did about how running 

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down in the Borders because 
we're quite close to the 

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Scottish Borders. 
In fact, actually one time one 

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of the coaches who used to take 
us to Broughton every year, the 

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Broughton Hill race, every year 
we would go for maybe 3 or 4 

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years and then it was the only 
time we ever got a minibus. 

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And it was only when we got 
older we realized that this 

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coach would put 1516 kids on a 
minibus, take them down and do 

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the hill race. 
He'd go off and do the adults 

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when we'd do the kids Hill race.
But everybody got a bottle of 

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beer regardless of what age you 
were right. 

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Everybody, of course the coach 
comes out in the minibus at the 

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end. 
We're all like, we look at our 

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bottle of beer and you say, 
sorry kids, you have to give me 

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your bottles of beer. 
And so we all of us have to give

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us this coach all of our bottles
of beer. 

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So he he made that one for sure.
And that was the only time we 

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ever got a mini bus anywhere. 
Every other time it was parents 

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taking us and things like that. 
So, yeah, I mean, it's good fun.

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And then I started I started 
racing track at school and 

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things that as well, because I'd
started running, I thought I was

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about joining the particular 
high school as well, going and 

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doing the school sports and 
seeing how that works out and 

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end up, I don't know, winning, 
winning school sports races. 

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And I started doing sort of 
Lanarkshire schools side of 

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things, 815 hundred things like 
that. 

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And then I started, I was like 
doing quite well, podium at 

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Lanarkshire schools, things like
that, you know. 

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And then the coaches at the club
weren't really track coaches and

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so they suggested that I try and
reach out to somewhere else to 

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get a wee bit additional 
coaching. 

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And so I went to Falkirk, 
Victoria Harriers, a coach 

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called Willie Sharp from there. 
And from there on I just started

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just going stratospheric. 
It was obviously completely 

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different training, completely 
different coaching. 

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I was training like 7 * a week, 
which is probably a bit too much

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for a 15 year old when you think
back. 

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I certainly wouldn't have my 
daughter doing that now, but 

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training was good, the coaching 
was great. 

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I ended up, I was under 2 
minutes for 800, just just over 

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4 minutes for 1500, hi eights 
for 3K and things like that. 

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And but I've actually, funnily 
enough, I've had my identity was

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a distance runner. 
I'm a distance runner, I'm an 

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800m runner. 
It was this time of Overt Cram 

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and Tom McKean and Cole and all 
those guys. 

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So that's where we all wanted to
be. 

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But it's actually 400 meters 
that I won and the Scottish 

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indoor champs at the old Kelvin 
Hall in the late 1980s. 

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So yeah, it was a 400 meters. 
I can remember standing in the 

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podium and this we guy from main
in South Lanarkshire main 

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village standing in the podium. 
All these kept on standing next 

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to two guys who are in full 
Scotland kits. 

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They'd obviously been selected 
for Scotland in the past. 

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I was like, oh, I've made it. 
Now these two guys are are 

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Scottish level athletes. 
But that was also the same year 

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that I completely gave it up. 
1989, I completely gave up. 

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I've had the summer season. 
I've started working in the 

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supermarket. 
My pals were all going out at 

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that time. 
You know, you're 16 years old, 

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everybody starting to go out. 
So I was like fear of missing 

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out. 
And so, yeah, sort of starting 

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out drinking with pals, smoking,
partying, you know, late nights,

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all that kind of stuff. 
And then I gave up probably the 

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tail end of 1989, went to uni 
the next year and all of that 

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just got, went exponential. 
You know, it's I think for the 

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next, for the next 10 years, it 
was just party time. 

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And yeah, I'd always done a lot 
of, always done a lot of sport 

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Despite that. 
I mean, I still, I didn't run 

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anymore, but I'm played a lot of
5A side football, the martial 

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arts for about 5 or 6 years. 
So I tried to keep sort of that 

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despite my smoking habit, 
drinking habit, recreational 

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drug habit. 
But I think, yeah, I spent, 

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yeah, probably 10 years or just 
doing very little. 

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So that's, that's like #1 we got
time for number 2 and then met 

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my wife in my late 20s and we 
got married. 

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Trying to settle down a little 
bit more. 

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And I've been putting on a lot 
of weight. 

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As you may expect, you can only 
get away with drinking lots and 

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what having eaten the wrong 
foods for so long, it just 

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eventually just sort of catches 
up with you. 

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And then I was also, I'm, I was 
a contractor for a lot of years,

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like self-employed contractor. 
And I was working down in 

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Newcastle at this time. 
And there's a guy at work called

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Joe massive hell runner from 
Yorkshire deals and he was 

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running every lunchtime. 
I think I remember one day 

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sitting in the office bragging 
about how good I used to be. 

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And he said, well, can it be me 
then let's go for a run. 

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And yeah, yeah, like on in, 
let's do that. 

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And so put on an old pair of 
trainers. 

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One lunchtime went out with Joe 
and this guy's a 35 minute or he

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was a 35 minute 5K guy. 
He's not. 

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He's not slow at all. 
He's really quite sharp and a 

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great hill runner. 
But I remember we did 2 miles on

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the old wagon way behind our 
work and I was absolutely 

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breathing out my backside. 
I was so unfair. 

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And I think, yeah, that was, 
that was a real eye opener about

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how unfit actually was me 
thinking that I could retain 

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some kind of level of fitness 
over over the years. 

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But I was, I was, I was done. 
I was just, I was lying on the 

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ground and we got back and he 
said like, why don't you go out 

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again tomorrow? 
And then, yeah, OK, my legs 

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recover. 
I'll I'll come out with you. 

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So we did that and I just kept 
going to run in with him and 

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then started entering races down
in Newcastle. 

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And, but we then eventually we'd
get most lunch times and we'd 

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run from sort of long bent in 
the area of where my work was. 

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There's a little wagonway that 
runs to the, I think it's called

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the Rising Sun Country Park, 
runs past the, the Newcastle FC 

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training ground and stuff like 
that. 

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So we did that every day and 
just started building up 

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fitness. 
As you know, as soon as you 

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start building fitness and you 
drop all the bad habits, your 

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energy levels, your fitness 
levels just all start rising at 

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the same time. 
And so yeah, that's, that was 

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my, that was my return to my 
return to running. 

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So I've got Joe to thank for 
that. 

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How long do you think that it 
took from being not not so fit 

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in however you want to put that 
to thinking I'm I'm getting back

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into this now. 
Yeah, I tried to have a think 

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about that. 
I mean, I think it was probably 

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I, I entered a race called the 
Clive Cookson 10K and Whitley 

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Bay Joe was doing it anyway and 
he says come along and do this 

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race. 
And I think I'd been running 

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with him for about 6 months or 
running a treadmill in the gym 

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or doing a do not be a bit of 
work maybe four or five times a 

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week or something like that. 
He just come along and do this 

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10K. 
So I thought, yeah, I'll do 

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that, why not? 
I was so nervous. 

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I can remember standing in that 
line thinking how nervous am I? 

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This is ridiculous. 
I've done a lot of races in the 

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past. 
I don't know why I'm so nervous,

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but I ended up running 40 
minutes for that race. 

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I would say maybe about six 
months and to make probably 6 

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months. 
And was that your first race 

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back the second time round? 
Yeah, it was. 

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Yeah, it was. 
And actually I went back and did

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that race a couple of years 
later after having got properly 

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back into running again, I think
around 33 minutes. 

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So it shows you the a wee bit of
commitment can return good 

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results. 
It's a great race, great fun. 

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It's like a Wednesday night 1, 
you know. 

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So I was down there Monday to 
Friday. 

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I used to come home at the at 
the weekends and there's loads 

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and loads of stuff going on down
there. 

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There's a really big running 
community in Newcastle and the 

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surrounding areas. 
It's got really big run in 

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history, you know, get more path
Harriers and or crams from down 

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there, the clouds and another 
family of runners down there 

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that are quite famous. 
So there's a real good 

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atmosphere for all. 
And you said it took you 6 

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months to get back to sort of 
fitness, but how long does it 

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take? 
We're talking about second time 

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round because you were obviously
the first time round. 

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You're saying about your coaches
and stuff that they were pushing

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you to the second time round 
when you were doing it as an 

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adult, you were doing it because
you wanted to do it by, I mean 

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running. 
How long do you think it took? 

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Or was there a moment that you 
thought I'm actually quite good 

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at this? 
Yeah, maybe I'm actually quite 

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good at this. 
Yeah, I don't like talking about

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myself like that. 
You know, I actually, by the 

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time, you know, I did these 
races down in Newcastle and I 

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would race up here as well when 
I was home at the weekend, you 

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know, Glasgow Half Marathon and 
things like that. 

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But I probably just put myself 
in the bracket of averaged to 

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decent club runner and I 
probably still, I'm not going to

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average the decent club runner 
when it comes to the sort of 

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shorter road race type stuff. 
I probably wouldn't class myself

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as a decent runner until I moved
to ultra, which maybe I could 

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speak a bit in a bit, but I 
certainly as a as a road runner 

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coming into 10 KS and what have 
you in my 30s, I just, I just 

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thought I was just, I was just 
kind of average. 

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I didn't think anything of it. 
But I have to say that, and I've

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had some half decent results. 
I was never worried in the 

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podium places then. 
I was never worried then, never 

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worried the podium places at 
all. 

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And maybe in the top ten in 
races or what have you. 

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But around around 2008, yeah, 
probably about 2008, around New 

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York Marathon in 2007 and 2008. 
I thought something needs to 

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change here because I think I 
was just running myself ragged 

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trying to get fit or trying to 
get faster, and I was probably 

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doing the whole thing all wrong.
So I started doing a bit of 

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research and sort of coaching 
methodologies. 

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So I started looking at, you 
know, the usual suspects after 

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Lydiard, Renato, Canova, Berman,
Jack Daniels, all these kind of 

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people who were all, all there 
at the time. 

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So I tried to absorb as much as 
I could from them. 

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But then I used to be on a forum
called Let's Run. 

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I don't know if you've been on 
it. 

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It's horrendous. 
You can go completely anonymous 

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00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,680
on it and the stuff that comes 
out of there's awful. 

224
00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:33,200
It's like what X is like now. 
So I was on the air and I came 

225
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:39,160
across this coach called himself
had HADD, but his name is 

226
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,960
actually John Walsh. 
It's a Maltese chap. 

227
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,480
I don't think he's like, he's no
longer with us, actually died a 

228
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,800
number of years ago. 
But his, his methodology was, 

229
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,200
was all around sort of threshold
training before threshold was 

230
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,280
fashionable. 
So it was all, it was like a 

231
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,440
couple of, a couple of times a 
week, you would do a threshold 

232
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,520
work and the rest of it would 
all be heart rate based, easy 

233
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,960
running, steady running, but all
within heart rate zones. 

234
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,720
And of course we all know about 
heart rate. 

235
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,000
It's a kind of latent thing. 
It's not something you can get 

236
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,600
immediate response from, but 
it's, it's like a guide, isn't 

237
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,080
it? 
It's not a, it's not a definite 

238
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:18,560
thing, heart rate. 
And you don't really know what 

239
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:21,000
your Max is really to be honest.
And this is all based off your 

240
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,600
Max heart rate. 
You can get a good idea what, 

241
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,440
what a Max heart rate is, you 
know, for a hard 5K or a hard 

242
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:27,960
male race or something like 
that. 

243
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:35,240
And so I started training around
what this coach was, this 

244
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:42,320
coach's philosophy. 
And then in 2009, I've done a 

245
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,760
lot within the train all over 
the winter 2008 and 2009 and the

246
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,360
half marathon season started and
I went up to Inverness, that 

247
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,680
Inverness half Marathon, I can't
remember what position I was, 

248
00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:56,720
but I ran 72 minutes. 
I thought, Oh my goodness, 

249
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,200
what's happened here? 
Like I was 76 before, 77 before,

250
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,880
maybe 75 at my best, but I just 
knocked 3 or 4 minutes off my PB

251
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,360
for, for running easy 
essentially for the whole 

252
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,160
winter. 
And then again, just maybe early

253
00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,360
April 2009, I went, I'd entered 
the Edinburgh Half Marathon and 

254
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,360
that was, there's a company who 
used to organise the Edinburgh 

255
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,240
One in the Dunfermline one. 
Now this year they called it the

256
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,920
Chris Hoy Half. 
Chris Hoy had just won 1000 

257
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,680
medals at the Bhaijian Olympics 
and he's in Edinburgh, born and 

258
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:34,520
bred lad, and he was coming down
to do the presentation of the 

259
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:36,080
prizes and all that kind of 
stuff. 

260
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,080
Now I was also going on holiday 
the next day, we'd friends 

261
00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,920
staying with us and we were 
going to Norway the next day for

262
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,280
a skiing and snowboarding 
holiday. 

263
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,880
And we'd kind of worked out that
we'd need to do some like 75 

264
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,160
minutes, 76 minutes so that we 
could get away back to the house

265
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,200
to get showered to get to the 
hotel. 

266
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,240
And so it was all a bit tight 
and I thought we'll go do this 

267
00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,560
half mile, then we'll go go on 
the plane, we'll go away into 

268
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,080
our holiday. 
However, after the race started,

269
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,720
I found myself at the front with
a lad from Belgrave Harriers. 

270
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,720
I'll never forget the best and 
sort of famous best, and then 

271
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,560
another lad, David Lindsay, 
who's still running at that 

272
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,960
time. 
And I think by 8 miles I was on 

273
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:18,920
my own in the lead and 
eventually won the race back in 

274
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,680
Musselburgh Race Course around 
71 minutes. 

275
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:24,680
And my pals were like, yeah, 
brilliant, well done. 

276
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:29,440
We need to go. 
I need to wait in prizes, the 

277
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,800
price presentations in like 45 
minutes. 

278
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:33,680
And they said we're going to 
miss a flight. 

279
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,240
If you don't, you're going to 
just go. 

280
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:37,480
We just have to pick it up 
later. 

281
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,440
So I have to go and ask the I 
went and asked the the race 

282
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,440
director. 
I said, look, we're trying to 

283
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,320
get away in a skiing holiday and
I need to go. 

284
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,320
Could you go and drag us away 
from all the media stuff he's 

285
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,080
doing? 
Tell me, give him, give him a 

286
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,040
prize before I beat ahead. 
And to be fair, he did that. 

287
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,120
So he went away and not got to 
meet Chris, Chris's wife and all

288
00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:59,200
that stuff. 
Really good. 

289
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,120
So yeah, maybe I thought at that
point, maybe I thought I've made

290
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,720
it a wee bit here of 1, quite a 
big race I suppose and PB time 

291
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,720
and I suppose maybe I thought 
maybe a bit decent now. 

292
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,280
And something that Nikki doesn't
know back in 20 must have been 

293
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,080
about 2013, something like that.
I used to be on a forum called 

294
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,840
Fetch Everyone and hard 
training. 

295
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:32,600
There was a thread on there that
I used to follow and my heart 

296
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,720
rate was all over the place 
because my history as I had to 

297
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:41,560
have heart surgery. 
So I was training to my running 

298
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,560
friends heart rate. 
But we used to go into this 

299
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,600
thread and follow it 
religiously. 

300
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:54,280
There was one guy on there that 
was the he wasn't John had he 

301
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,520
was the next best thing. 
He was Bob. 

302
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,360
I was Robert Turner. 
So there. 

303
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:02,240
You go. 
I remember that. 

304
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,000
Yeah, I remember that. 
Yeah. 

305
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,079
I was quite evangelical about it
back in the day. 

306
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:08,880
Makes it works for me. 
I thought it should work for 

307
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,119
everyone. 
But you know, and I know now 

308
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,640
that's not always the case, but 
and it doesn't work anymore for 

309
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,680
me, you know, it was a one time 
thing. 

310
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,720
It's like I was building that 
big massive base is what it was 

311
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,880
all about. 
And then even John Walsh himself

312
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,400
had himself said you could do 
this for a certain period of 

313
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,800
time, but eventually you'll have
a plateau and you need to start 

314
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,720
bringing in the more specific 
stuff that we all know about. 

315
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,680
You know what you're actually 
training for an 800 meters or a 

316
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,440
marathon, you need to do that 
specific work. 

317
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,840
But I did all that. 
I got really fat off just that 

318
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,960
training. 
Yeah, it was good. 

319
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,040
It worked for me as well, so. 
Yeah. 

320
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:52,480
So with a time of 71 minutes, it
is unsurprising the year went on

321
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:57,640
to represent Scotland. 
So with the process of that, how

322
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:02,240
did you qualify and what did it 
feel like to be asked to 

323
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,400
represent your country? 
I mean, I mean, James Stewart 

324
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,720
mentioned that on the on your 
podcast a couple episodes back. 

325
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,280
Represent or just the last one? 
No, it's 2 episodes ago. 

326
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:16,880
Yeah. 
Representing your country's like

327
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,400
the pinnacle. 
Isn't it really as the pinnacle 

328
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,880
and pulling on that Scotland 
best for the first time. 

329
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,320
So you just wanted to stay on. 
You don't want it to come off. 

330
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,400
You know, it's, it's amazing, 
but it came a bit later in my 

331
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,120
career. 
I mean, and about unexpected, I 

332
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:33,680
suppose as well. 
It wasn't something that was 

333
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,600
looking for. 
Well, was I looking for? 

334
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,840
No, probably wasn't looking for.
I knew it happened, but I 

335
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,800
wasn't, it wasn't something that
was targeting at the time. 

336
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,880
Once I got the first one, I 
wanted more of it, of course, 

337
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,320
but that first time I wasn't, I 
wasn't looking for it. 

338
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,240
I think when I was a younger 
junior that was like the 

339
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,800
pinnacle as well. 
And then the story I just said 

340
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,280
about the standing next to two 
guys with a full Scotland kits 

341
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,480
on, that was a kind of goal that
everybody wanted then. 

342
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,480
But you know what can life and 
family gets in the way and these

343
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,640
kind of things kind of drift 
off. 

344
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,560
But I mean, yeah, I didn't 
really even got back into 

345
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,840
running as an adult. 
I never really thought about 

346
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,000
national vests really wasn't 
what was the front forefront of 

347
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,760
my mind. 
I was just actually just seeing 

348
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,400
how good I could get, you know, 
with training and racing I was 

349
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:17,680
doing. 
It was just a personal 

350
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,440
challenge. 
And then around 2010 eleven, 

351
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,600
probably due to that fetch site 
as well, making part ultra 

352
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,360
running started to become a 
focus for a lot of people that I

353
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:33,440
knew and I was still quite quick
then. 

354
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,360
I was still running fast for me,
running fast for races on road 

355
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:41,640
races and what have you and a 
kind of typical short road race 

356
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,600
mentality, quite ignorant to the
whole ultra scene, even at that 

357
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,080
time. 
And I was just like, that's for 

358
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,080
slow people. 
That's not for, that's not for 

359
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,880
India like me. 
And and, and you know, and I may

360
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,760
and mine had been at me for a 
wee while to try altars and I'm 

361
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,720
not not interested. 
It's just for those slow old 

362
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,960
people that just leave it to 
them sort of thing, you know? 

363
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,960
Idiot. 
And then but the same guy said 

364
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,320
to me, the same guy said to me, 
he says look, I'm running the 

365
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,640
best time and we in 2013, this 
was the year before probably. 

366
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:12,720
And he said will you help me 
out? 

367
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,160
Will you come and support me? 
I mean, yeah, why not? 

368
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,360
Sounds like good fun. 
Sounds like a good day out. 

369
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:22,760
I like that part of the world. 
And after being a few years of 

370
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,320
fairly critical about ultra 
running, I watched Paul Giblin 

371
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:33,240
and Marco and Sani run that race
at 96 miles in, what, 15 or 16 

372
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,720
hours, I think at that time. 
And I just thought you need to 

373
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,800
swallow your pride here and you 
need to take another look at 

374
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,120
ultra running because this is 
not for slow people. 

375
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:46,960
If these guys can do, you know, 
this is a proper sport and it's 

376
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,720
the one, right? 
And so my mind, you know, my 

377
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,240
mind was kind of slowly changing
to. 

378
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:56,960
And in actual fact, that same 
year, probably just after the 

379
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,920
West Highland Way, the GO-33 
entries opened and my mate 

380
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,960
Stephen says that's a perfect 
introduction to ultra running. 

381
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,000
Why don't you go wrong and why 
do you just enter that? 

382
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,320
So I thought, yeah, why not? 
So entered GO 33 that year, 

383
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,800
Devil of the Highlands the next 
year had a couple of years of 

384
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,960
injury and then I think, I think
it was maybe 2015. 

385
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,000
Yeah, it must have been 2015. 
I came back to run GO 33. 

386
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,080
So I've been out injured for a 
while. 

387
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:28,760
So it's obviously a good 
introduction again and that that

388
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,880
I also won, I won the race in 
2013. 

389
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:35,560
I also won it in 2015 and it was
a different direction. 

390
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,360
I think that time though, and 
and something that will always 

391
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:40,400
stay with me. 
James was in that race as well 

392
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,640
actually, and he was third, but 
also another guy make you know 

393
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,560
quite well who I beat that day. 
There's another Rob, Rob 

394
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,400
Sinclair, and I still say that 
for all the races Rob and I have

395
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,040
done together, he's never beaten
me. 

396
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,720
And so I'm proud, proud of that.
Very proud of that. 

397
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,400
Has to be. 
It's only that one race we've 

398
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,480
been in together, and it was 
like a long time before Rob came

399
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,000
to his peak. 
So I've just put that that 

400
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,040
caveat. 
And yeah, I certainly can. 

401
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,680
Like he shows these days. 
My goodness, he's running so 

402
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,880
well. 
I'm just. 

403
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,000
Absolutely gobsmacked Rob but 
the you beat Rob like that. 

404
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,040
Rob Sinclair has been beaten. 
I thought he was unbeaten on 

405
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:25,880
everything and was the trail 
running Scottish gods of our 

406
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,960
community. 
That was the very start of his 

407
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,760
his running career that race and
he just he just came out of 

408
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,840
nowhere and ended up second in 
that race and was absolutely 

409
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,520
closing me down in the last five
or six miles. 

410
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,880
According to James, the speedy 
went past James and I was 

411
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,640
struggling, so he was. 
If the race would have been 35 

412
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,840
miles, you might well have won 
it, put it that way. 

413
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,720
I never. 
But he never he didn't, you're 

414
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,840
absolutely right. 
And the race was only 33 miles 

415
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:56,160
and I won it. 
Now Rob's a great lad. 

416
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,840
But anyway, I think the ACP the 
following year was in Perth and 

417
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,560
again I didn't really know much 
about it but Adrian messaged me 

418
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,920
and said can we go for a coffee?
So I went for a coffee across 

419
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:13,240
from his old shop and he just 
said, you know, how would you 

420
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,880
feel about running 100K on the 
road? 

421
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,800
And I said no, I'll absolutely 
crapping it. 

422
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:24,480
But yeah, why not desperately. 
It was like, oh wow, you've got 

423
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,280
a Scottish best, you know, And 
that was that was my first one, 

424
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:32,440
2016 Anglo Celtic plate. 
I'm sure most people have heard 

425
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,440
what Anglo Celtic plate is your,
your viewers and listeners. 

426
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,840
But just in case you haven't, 
it's a international road race 

427
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,360
over 100 kilometres between 
Scotland, England, Northern 

428
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,400
Ireland, Southern Ireland and 
Wales every year. 

429
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,480
And it revolves around different
countries every year. 

430
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,360
And that year, 2016, it was in 
Perth. 

431
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:57,000
And so, yeah, I mean, I think to
say that you've been called up 

432
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,480
and selected for your country, 
but surreal at the time. 

433
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,120
But I mean, it was absolutely 
hooked on it after that. 

434
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:06,240
It was something that I had to 
do as much as I could, 

435
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,440
especially. 
I was 2016, I was 44 years old, 

436
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,040
4344 years old. 
I wasn't any young, young 

437
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,440
whippersnapper anymore. 
So yeah. 

438
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,480
I'm going to dive out slightly 
off the question set and sorry 

439
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,840
if this is a complete cub ball 
for you, just the way that the 

440
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,000
conversation works. 
On a personal note, had you had 

441
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:33,240
your children by that point and 
if so, how did you fit in your 

442
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,400
training around working, being a
dad's, things like that? 

443
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:44,240
Because that's quite high level.
Yeah, yes, I had both kids by 

444
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,400
that point. 
My eldest would have been five, 

445
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,640
my youngest would have been 3-2 
or three. 

446
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,880
And my wife, I don't think, I 
don't think anybody who's got 

447
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,720
young family like that, who also
wants to do all well in sport 

448
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:06,360
can possibly do it without a 
good other half. 

449
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:09,720
And my wife is absolutely 
supportive of everything that 

450
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,160
I've done over the years. 
And but the other, the other 

451
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,360
thing as well, I mean, well, 
she's been very supportive and 

452
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:16,800
family, it's always family 
first. 

453
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,080
You know, it's always that's my 
motto. 

454
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:20,400
And I said, I'm sure it's 
everyone else's. 

455
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,480
But what I would do is I just 
got up early and I'll go and do 

456
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,360
the training 6:00 AM. 
I'll be back by 7:00 or back by 

457
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,120
8:00 and then be able to help 
out and do the dad but as well. 

458
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,880
So I think, yeah, I think just 
arranging your time better. 

459
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,240
And I've had to learn to do that
much better over the years with 

460
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,240
various other things I've been 
doing at the same time, 

461
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,920
coaching, studied for a master's
a few years back as well. 

462
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,200
So I was trying to slot all that
kind of stuff in at the same 

463
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,000
time. 
It's just good time management, 

464
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,600
which I've had to become really 
good at because I wasn't before,

465
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,760
it has to be said. 
So I think, I think maybe kids 

466
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,600
do that to you though, because 
everything's in a kind of 

467
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,080
routine. 
It's chaos, but it's like 

468
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:58,840
organised chaos and so, yeah, 
but I think first and foremost I

469
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,320
think you've got to have the 
support around you, which for 

470
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,120
me, luckily it was my wife Lisa.
I think you're right with the 

471
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,920
kids that although they are 
chaos, they need to be at school

472
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,880
at this time and there is no 
option to be late. 

473
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,800
They need to do the club at this
time and if they're not there 

474
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:17,280
for the club will go on without 
them. 

475
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,480
So you you have to work around 
their timetable. 

476
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,480
That's right. 
Definitely, yeah. 

477
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:29,960
So thinking about your races, 
whether you want to say about 

478
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:36,200
normal, say normal races, non 
ultra races or shorter races or 

479
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,280
your diet in general, what kind 
of thing do you fuel on? 

480
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,320
Yeah, my diet is actually pretty
good. 

481
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,200
My wife again. 
I'll go back to my wife, her 

482
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,840
mum, my mother-in-law is a 
former home economics teacher, 

483
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,120
high school home economics 
teacher and so everything's made

484
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:02,560
from scratch and my wife has 
taken that mantle on as well. 

485
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,680
So everything in this house is 
made from scratch. 

486
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,040
There's very little process. 
Stuff gets bought on a week to 

487
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,280
week basis. 
So our diet is actually pretty 

488
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,360
good. 
Don't get me wrong, I can over 

489
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:18,080
indulge on certain things, but 
in general it's pretty good and 

490
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,120
it usually revolves around 
training as well. 

491
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,480
So if it's a big week, I'll be 
taking on more that kind of 

492
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,760
stuff. 
But in terms of like racing, I 

493
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,640
think I've tried everything and 
I've never, I'll be honest, I 

494
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:29,960
don't think I've ever gotten it 
right. 

495
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,440
I've never gotten it right and I
made I've made massive mistakes 

496
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,000
as well. 
I think I wouldn't one of the 

497
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,360
Anglo Celtic place in Wales in 
2018. 

498
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:41,960
I'd won it and I thought I'd 
nailed. 

499
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,640
I won the British champs at 
you'll just say that. 

500
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,600
So it's probably always time 
I'll get this here. 

501
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:51,160
And I thought I'd nailed the the
hydration and the food for that 

502
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,880
race, which is just gels, 
probably something like active 

503
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,440
route at the time. 
I don't know what the gels would

504
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,280
have been. 
Maybe the sort of old sis ones 

505
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,680
or something like that. 
So gels and and gels and 

506
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:05,840
hydration. 
I thought I'd nailed it. 

507
00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,600
Won that race by 7 seconds from 
Anthony Clark that year. 

508
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,480
It was the closest that race has
ever been. 

509
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,680
But I then thought I could take 
the same, let's just show you 

510
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,920
how stupid I am. 
Then I thought I could take the 

511
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,120
same hydration and fuelling 
strategy into the World 

512
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:24,960
Championships. 
So Anglo Celtic play. 

513
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,680
It was in Wales in March, maybe 
early, early April. 

514
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,200
Typical British weather. 
It was cool, it was windy, it 

515
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,880
rained, probably snowed. 
And then you go to Croatia in 

516
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,080
September and it's 30° and I 
just, these are the kind of 

517
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,840
mistakes I've made throughout my
running all the time. 

518
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,680
I make these types of mistakes. 
I thought I'd take the same 

519
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,480
hydration and, and fueling 
strategy and ended up dying to 

520
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,200
death about 70 kilometers into 
the race because I just hadn't 

521
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:53,200
eaten enough or taken on enough 
food. 

522
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,200
And then in other situations, 
I've had problems with bloating,

523
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,920
toilet stops, being sick, and 
I've just never got it right. 

524
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,720
And I remember James said 
something similar. 

525
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,320
I think James Stewart said 
something similar. 

526
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,880
He's never got it right. 
And I think I'm pretty much 

527
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,640
similar to him with that. 
It's I remember when I started 

528
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,160
out and doing trails and trail 
and go out for the day on the 

529
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:15,200
trails. 
I've done an old Richie 

530
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,400
Cunningham classic of Mashed 
potato and ketchup. 

531
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,800
And that was actually really 
good. 

532
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,200
That worked really well, or at 
least I thought it worked really

533
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,480
well. 
But if you're running it 6 and a

534
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,120
bit minute miles for 6 1/2 to 7 
hours, ketchup and mashed 

535
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,800
potatoes doesn't go down. 
You'll be wearing most of it. 

536
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,640
And so it has to be gels, it has
to be high sugar content stuff. 

537
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,120
And I think I've probably got 
some kind of internal issue that

538
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,080
I can't take that. 
And I've tried training it, you 

539
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,520
know, I've tried all that taking
more and taking more and it just

540
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,760
makes me worse. 
My body doesn't get used to it. 

541
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,120
So like I was out for a run 
today for example, and I had 50 

542
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:59,040
grams of 50g / 2 1/2 hours of 
carbohydrates and that that 

543
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,800
worked well. 
So maybe I just haven't found 

544
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,000
that sweet spot. 
But yeah, I think I've had a lot

545
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:06,760
of problems with the stuff and 
I've tried everything. 

546
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,920
I've been down the Morton 
Precision Hydration Active 

547
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,200
route, Tailwind and all the 
other ones under the sun. 

548
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,680
I've spent an absolute fortune. 
And I think I could, I think, I 

549
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,400
suspect if I just went with 
table sugar and water, I 

550
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,640
probably would have saved enough
money to take the family to 

551
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,480
Disney in Florida. 
And don't, don't even get me 

552
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,960
started talking about shoes in 
the place of shoes. 

553
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,040
Yeah, I've spent a small fortune
in hydration and never really 

554
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,160
got it right. 
So yeah, I'd be open to open to 

555
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,320
any advice and anything like 
that with it. 

556
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,480
Well, what a lot of people don't
realize is table sugar has got 

557
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,280
5050 balanced feeding sucrose 
and fructose. 

558
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,800
So if you just put that in your 
water, which I have done quite a

559
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:53,120
few times, that is your perfect 
dual carb intake. 

560
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,760
So yeah, why not just stick to 
table water? 

561
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,040
Yeah, table sugar and water. 
Yeah, that's what I've been 

562
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,040
doing for it, just only because 
a price as well. 

563
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,200
Oh yeah, just much cheaper. 
You know, a bag of sugar is 

564
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,960
nothing and water's free and 
something's a little bit of salt

565
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,560
and got Himalayan pink rock salt
stuff that's all ground down and

566
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,920
put that back of that. 
And then I'll flavour it with 

567
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,960
maybe like a little bit of lime 
cordial or orange cordial or 

568
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,280
something like that, just to 
give it a bit of a better 

569
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,920
flavour than just pure sugar. 
But yeah, it seems to be OK just

570
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:25,840
now. 
Certainly not. 

571
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,520
I haven't had any problems. 
Well, I just have to dive into 

572
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:28,560
the toilet today. 
Actually. 

573
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,360
Maybe maybe it isn't working. 
Sorry, Mike, when you go. 

574
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,440
No, I think that is research 
about how much like I know 

575
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:44,040
people say about training your 
gut for the high carbohydrate 

576
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,920
intake, but there's also is that
carbohydrate coming from just 

577
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,920
pure sugar because you get GI 
issues from that as well. 

578
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,920
So I don't know the answer to 
it, but there is research out 

579
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,440
there. 
And that research also, I think 

580
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,960
read the research, is the more 
you take, the less of it gets 

581
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,440
used as well. 
So you could be loading up in a 

582
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,640
lots of carbs into the system, 
but using a less lesser 

583
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:10,040
percentage of it. 
And where does the other stuff 

584
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,880
go? 
Well, for me, that just sits 

585
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,240
about waiting to come out the 
other end. 

586
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,920
That's all that happens to me. 
And it all comes out at once. 

587
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,320
And it all comes out at once. 
Yeah, exactly. 

588
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,560
So yeah, maybe I need to try and
find that sweet spot. 

589
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,360
And especially if I get back 
into ultras, which I'm hoping to

590
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,240
do, I'll definitely need to work
out what the best way is. 

591
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,320
Well, what I was going to say 
was Mashed potato and ketchup 

592
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,160
you've brought. 
That's a new one. 

593
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,120
I think I'd actually take makes 
to turn a soup over that, and I 

594
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,280
don't think I could find 
anything much worse. 

595
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,520
I actually really like that. 
I like that kind of soup idea as

596
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:43,560
well. 
That's a really good one 

597
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:44,600
actually. 
Especially just get one. 

598
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,640
You just pull the ring, you 
know, you're not having to open 

599
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,120
it with a tin opener or you just
pull it off and down. 

600
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,080
That's a really good idea. 
I maybe have to think about that

601
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,240
one as well. 
Maybe waiting in the pack though

602
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,280
so. 
Yeah, maybe you've got a drop 

603
00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,400
age station drop. 
Yeah, a drop bag 1 here. 

604
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,080
As Bob said, the mashed potatoes
and ketchup, That's a Richie 

605
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,680
Cunningham West Ham away 
special. 

606
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,800
Yeah. 
I mean, there's the whole don't 

607
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,720
knock it. 
So you've tried it, but it's the

608
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:20,400
thought that's a new one for me.
So these mention about you had 

609
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,840
the coach the first time round. 
For the second time round, have 

610
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,080
you had a dedicated coach for 
the Scotland team or have you 

611
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,240
been coached with the same 
person throughout? 

612
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,360
So yeah, I mean, no, I was 
coached as a as a youngster, but

613
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,560
when I got back into as an 
adult, no. 

614
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:47,480
And I hadn't really considered 
coaching, but I think, and it's 

615
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,360
probably a bit of Barragan. 
So I suppose I thought I could 

616
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,720
do it myself. 
You know, I thought I'm fairly 

617
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,560
bright. 
I could read up and research and

618
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,280
understand and what I've been 
trying to apply it to myself. 

619
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,840
But I think, I think I've 
always, certainly now, I think 

620
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,120
there's a certain amount of 
accountability required and 

621
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,120
there's you need someone else to
look over what you're doing. 

622
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,080
And for sure it's not, it's not 
as plain sailing as you think it

623
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,679
is. 
But in 2016 I got to the first 

624
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,480
Scotland team on my own, just 
have a moment training and own 

625
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:21,120
own self sort of thing. 
But I've been injured after 

626
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,639
that. 
And then in 2017 I think I did, 

627
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:28,639
I think I entered the devil and 
yeah, come back from injury, 

628
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:34,560
entered the devil, pulled out a 
bridge of Orky, probably more of

629
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,520
a shack, quit. 
I don't know if you need to 

630
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,920
cancel that out because it 
becomes an Ian. 

631
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,320
It probably was more of that 
than anything else. 

632
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,880
I probably just wasn't fit 
enough to complete the race. 

633
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,360
And I thought I was or complete 
it in the time that I thought I 

634
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,840
should be able to complete it. 
And, and I thought to that at 

635
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:52,760
that point, I thought, I think I
need some help. 

636
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,640
And at that time and, and still 
who's the main man in Scottish 

637
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,480
ultra running was Paul Giblin. 
And so he'd had great success 

638
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,720
with obviously James and a 
number of other athletes. 

639
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,720
And I thought, I wonder if I 
just give him a call and just 

640
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:11,800
see what he's got to say and see
if we can work stuff out. 

641
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,960
And, and yeah, that's what I 
did. 

642
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:22,160
So I signed up with Paul in late
2017, I think, and he brought a 

643
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,240
new dimension, whole new 
dimension to training, 

644
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,560
particularly around mobility 
work, strength and conditioning.

645
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:32,440
I mean, I'm in my 40s at this 
point, so it's probably a good, 

646
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,480
it was a good, it was the right 
time to do it. 

647
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,560
And I, I, you could probably ask
Paul. 

648
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,400
I, I went and did everything to,
it's all on training peaks and 

649
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,920
everything was green. 
There would be never a day or a 

650
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,640
session that would not be 
completed by me. 

651
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,320
I was absolutely hooked on it. 
And actually it actually worked 

652
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,280
because in 2018, I probably one 
of my best years, I won the 

653
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,720
British 100K champs. 
I got selected for the GBE 100K 

654
00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:59,680
team. 
I went to Croatia and running 

655
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:04,640
the World Championships. 
I went to Comrades in South 

656
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,720
Africa and did the Comrades 
Marathon and then I got invited 

657
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:13,680
over to a race in China as well.
Expenses paid, all expenses paid

658
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,600
race in China. 
That was a fantastic year and I 

659
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,720
can only ever say I could never 
have done that on my own. 

660
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,000
There was never no way that was 
going to happen if I'd continued

661
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,480
training in my own way. 
But by handing it all over to 

662
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,200
Paul to arrange and for me just 
to follow it, I think probably 

663
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,880
got to thank him for for all of 
that to be honest. 

664
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,880
And then even in the following 
year, 2019, I ran in the Anglo 

665
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:40,240
Celtic play again and ran 651 
for the 100K again due to polls.

666
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:45,440
I mean at that point I know I've
run 231 at Berlin Marathon when 

667
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,920
I was 36 years old and I thought
half decent marathon time again,

668
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:56,600
average club runner can do 231. 
I actually thought in 2019 I 

669
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,200
was, what, approaching 47, and 
there was absolutely no doubt 

670
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,720
I'd have smashed 2:30 if I'd 
done a marathon that year 

671
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:07,840
because I'm in such good shape. 
And again, I've got to thank 

672
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,760
Paul for that. 
I didn't do a marathon that 

673
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,440
year, unfortunately. 
I was in too many altars. 

674
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,520
But yeah, if I had done a 
marathon, I know I'd have done 

675
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,520
well under 2:30. 
So yeah, yeah, it was great. 

676
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,760
A great experience with Paul. 
He's such a good guy. 

677
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,320
And I was around. 
I was with actually my whole 

678
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:31,040
whole career up until this point
was with, with the pylon outfit 

679
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:35,240
and I became a coach in the 
pylon set up as well. 

680
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,640
But then you know, maybe the 
tail end of 2024, beginning of 

681
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,920
2025, I was just, I had so much 
going on. 

682
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,360
I'd started coaching at my 
daughter's club outside of my 

683
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,360
own coaching with pylon and sort
of volunteer coaching. 

684
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,680
I still try to finish a master's
degree family, my daughters are 

685
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,880
now both involved in the sport 
and other sports that they need 

686
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,000
to be ferried around. 
And something had to give. 

687
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:06,160
And I knew that I could give up 
the coaching side on the pylon 

688
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,240
world because there's a whole 
suite of brilliant coaches 

689
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:11,240
already there. 
So any of my guys that were 

690
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,160
being coached by me could quite 
easily move across to the the 

691
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,640
other coaches within the within 
the set up and and get as much 

692
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,200
successes that I could ever 
bring them. 

693
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:25,520
So yeah, kind of amicably parted
ways with Pylon from a coaching 

694
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:28,840
perspective and being coached 
probably about about you just 

695
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,040
over a year ago now. 
But yeah, yeah, you got me in 

696
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,600
some fantastic shape. 
I mean, I can't thank him enough

697
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,120
for that. 
So are are you still a coach or 

698
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,440
is that end of a chapter? 
It's not. 

699
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,440
It was actually the beginning of
a new chapter because I started 

700
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,000
doing a lot more with the local 
athletics club. 

701
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,400
My, my kids are in different 
clubs. 

702
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,040
So I would help out with my 
youngest daughters club whenever

703
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,720
they needed me. 
And I'd, I'd be down at my 

704
00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:01,480
eldest daughters club helping 
out once or twice a week. 

705
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,600
And I'd be doing a lot of stuff 
around like cross country team 

706
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,280
management and lots of other 
stuff, just all volunteering. 

707
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,520
But my eldest daughter, she's 
actually much better than I ever

708
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,840
was, but she was quite good. 
She's, she is quite good and she

709
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,640
was because of that, the 
athletics club that she's in got

710
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,200
a really good sponsor behind 
them. 

711
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,960
And they gave athletes who won 
national titles or schools 

712
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,000
titles to give them a grant 
every year just to help out with

713
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,120
kit, help out with shoes, help 
out with travel, help out with 

714
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:32,640
race expenses and all that kind 
of stuff. 

715
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,720
And my, my eldest got that for 
two to three years there, but 

716
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:41,000
she's recently moved club and 
that new club don't have that 

717
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,800
set up. 
And so I thought, what can I do?

718
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,920
Like Imogen, my eldest has been 
really lucky and she's been 

719
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,720
really lucky to get that grant 
and it's been so helpful for us.

720
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,920
And I just thought I wonder, I 
wonder something I can do to 

721
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,600
help that not not just her, but 
help other athletes because I 

722
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,640
see other kids that she's 
running with that don't get the 

723
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,920
opportunities that she's had. 
And so I thought I wonder if I 

724
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,520
can do some coaching, give a 
little bit back to the 

725
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,040
grassroots and hopefully help 
other kids that are at imagings 

726
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:14,720
level help with. 
Travel kit, shoes, race entry, 

727
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,120
anything else, subsistence, you 
know, just for going away and 

728
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,040
staying overnight, 
accommodation, things like that.

729
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:26,560
And so, yeah, I set up myself 
beginning this year, endurance, 

730
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:32,680
edge coaching, anybody's looking
for anything and, and it's been 

731
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,320
really good. 
You know, I've got a good bunch 

732
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,200
of athletes with me just now 
starting to build up a little 

733
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,960
bit of revenue as well, which 
I'm hoping to start dishing out 

734
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,680
at some point this year. 
And it's going really well, 

735
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,720
getting lots of really good 
success with people. 

736
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:48,240
So I'm back in that fold again. 
I no longer have the master's 

737
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:49,920
degree that I need to worry 
about. 

738
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,800
That's done and dusted now. 
And I've got a little bit more 

739
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,800
capacity and I suppose I'm happy
to be sort of given back to the 

740
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,800
grassroots sports. 
It's given me so much. 

741
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,360
So that's that. 
That's where I am just now. 

742
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,920
So if somebody wanted to be 
coached by you, how would you go

743
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,200
about it? 
Just hit me up. 

744
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,760
I think that's the phrase the 
kids use these days or any 

745
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:16,680
social media you can find me on 
the the coaching outfit is 

746
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,920
endurance edge coaching. 
So on Instagram Facebook haven't

747
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,200
ventured on a TikTok yet and I 
don't go anywhere near X 

748
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,280
anymore. 
So that's the only two that I'm 

749
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:33,400
on or even get in touch with me 
How no Bob on Instagram as well 

750
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,880
or just any And yeah, that's 
that's probably the best ways to

751
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,360
get in touch with me. 
And with your coaching, those 

752
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,280
two questions from the back of 
this what do you enjoy most? 

753
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,960
And opposite to that, what do 
you find most challenging? 

754
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,080
Yeah, this is a, this is a good 
point. 

755
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,640
And and I'm probably going to go
down the standard, quite the 

756
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,480
standard answers for this 
because I think it's just so 

757
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,240
true. 
But you know, what I enjoy most 

758
00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:05,680
about it is seeing athletes 
achieve the things they didn't 

759
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,040
think were possible. 
And that's really good. 

760
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,360
I mean, we spoke earlier offline
about an athlete I had yesterday

761
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,520
doing the John Murray Ultra, not
for 30 minutes off his time from

762
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,400
last year. 
He's absolutely delighted with 

763
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:19,440
that. 
And there's much, much more to 

764
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,480
come. 
So that that kind of stuff 

765
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,400
really, really gets me going. 
It makes me really engaged with 

766
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,480
it all and you know, it doesn't 
matter. 

767
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,600
Maybe somebody just running 
their first race. 

768
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,200
Also had a lad who's over in 
Paris today during the half 

769
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,840
marathon. 
Not really a runner, that's what

770
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:40,720
he would say. 
But you know, got, we tried to 

771
00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:43,440
get close to two hours. 
I think he'd done 2 hours, 15 

772
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,200
and 2O2 today. 
Absolutely delighted and I'm 

773
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,480
absolutely delighted for him. 
He took a big chunk off of it. 

774
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,720
We started to catch up with him,
get a bit of a debrief, so I'll 

775
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:54,480
get that hopefully over the 
coming days. 

776
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:59,000
And then another, I had another 
athlete over in Paris today who 

777
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,720
has had her problems with 
injuries and things like that 

778
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,640
over the years. 
A little bit inconsistency. 

779
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,040
We've had maybe the last four or
five months of consistency. 

780
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:13,080
Nothing too major either, 
nothing too fast or hilly or 

781
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,760
anything like that. 
It's been Achilles problems that

782
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:21,040
she's had and then she's not 138
today, so not far away, maybe 

783
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,280
5-6 minutes off of where she 
where her best would be. 

784
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,040
But it's just fantastic to see 
that kind of stuff. 

785
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,880
So yeah, that that kind of stuff
really motivates me. 

786
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,640
Definitely. 
But you know, like, and running,

787
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,840
running can feel like a really 
individual sport. 

788
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:42,080
Like we're all that selfish when
we go out and do our own 

789
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,880
training and what have you. 
But when you're coaching, I 

790
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:50,440
think you can realise how much 
project progress from other 

791
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:54,440
people who's built on trust and 
sort of consistency and training

792
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,920
and good communication. 
And when an athlete buys into 

793
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,320
that and really sticks to the 
training and, and can see the 

794
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,600
results come together on like 
race day or what have you, or 

795
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,240
even just for an adventure, 
that's probably the most 

796
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:13,120
satisfying bet for me. 
And also enjoy problem solving. 

797
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:19,440
Sorry, my backgrounds, computing
science and my master's with 

798
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,320
cybersecurity, I've got a real 
problem solving background. 

799
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,440
That's what I do for a living. 
That's what I've done all my 

800
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,720
days. 
And so when I get every athletes

801
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:29,320
different, as you'll know, 
everybody's different. 

802
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,520
Everybody has different 
Physiology, different 

803
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,320
lifestyles, different pressures 
outside of work, and so you're 

804
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,800
constantly having to adapt and 
change and move and switch 

805
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,120
around whatever everybody's 
doing to try and get it. 

806
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,240
So that that kind of problem 
solving bit of it really appeals

807
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,480
to me. 
Yeah, sorry. 

808
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:49,320
I'm going on and on here. 
Those. 

809
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:54,600
Other questions? 
Challenging part or something 

810
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,640
was it? 
Challenges What the challenging 

811
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:09,320
about the coach? 
I think probably I think one of 

812
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,960
the most, I think one of the 
things I find really challenging

813
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:16,840
is managing expectations of, of 
people. 

814
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,640
I think we're kind of well in 
this kind of world now, isn't 

815
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,400
it? 
So evidence quick when it's like

816
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,400
we all expect really quick 
progress. 

817
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,160
And as we all know, endurance 
running just does not work like 

818
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,960
that. 
It takes months of consistent 

819
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,840
work to see any kind of real 
progress. 

820
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,200
It just doesn't happen 
overnight. 

821
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:41,920
And I think helping athletes to 
stay, stay a bit patient, a bit 

822
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,240
more patient and trust what 
we're doing can be a bit tricky 

823
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,880
because they want to say, oh, 
last week I didn't do that 

824
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,440
session the same as I did the 
week before. 

825
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,920
What's been happening? 
Oh, you've been in London for 

826
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,160
five days, you've been working 
hard or whatever, you know. 

827
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,840
So I think that that can be 
challenging, managing 

828
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,120
expectations in that way. 
And I think maybe some of the 

829
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:04,800
other things is actually just 
the balance of life. 

830
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,520
People have so much going on. 
But like I say, I mean, I like 

831
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,960
problem solving. 
So that kind of stuff. 

832
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:12,920
I do find that I do, but I like 
a challenge. 

833
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,400
I like these kind of challenges.
And so, yeah, I think, I think 

834
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,440
part of coaching, just them just
making sure that running fits 

835
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,120
into people's lives in a 
sustainable way. 

836
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,400
And rather than to become a 
source of stress, another source

837
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,560
of stress, it needs to, it needs
to fit into everybody's life. 

838
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,920
So these are the challenges. 
But, you know, bring them on. 

839
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,760
That's why that's what I enjoy. 
And you mentioned that you may 

840
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,400
or may not have had some 
success. 

841
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,120
And what was it the British 
Championships you mentioned? 

842
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:49,080
No, I don't know. 
Would you say that that's your 

843
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:51,880
your biggest running achievement
or has there been something 

844
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,760
else? 
It's right up there. 

845
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,400
It has to be said. 
Yeah, I mean, it was, it was 

846
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,360
unexpected and yeah, right up 
there. 

847
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,680
And then filling on our Scotland
vest or our GBE vest is, is also

848
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,920
really up there. 
But actual fact, my bigger run, 

849
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,680
my bigger running achievements 
have actually been when I've 

850
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,600
been with the pylon guys. 
And we've done, and I think 

851
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,880
that's been mentioned before on 
your podcast around the 

852
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,440
endeavours it took part in over 
a number of years. 

853
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,520
They're, they're probably up 
there with the best things I've 

854
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,200
ever done. 
But because they're not for 

855
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,760
yourself, we raised an enormous 
amount of money for charity. 

856
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,080
I think the first one was our 
double West Highland weigh in 24

857
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,800
hours was a really, and I think 
we raised something like 28,000 

858
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,840
lbs or something like that. 
I mean, huge amounts of money 

859
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:45,280
for such a niche sport to get 
that kind of backing from the 

860
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,120
community. 
It was just fantastic. 

861
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,200
Just the, the whole camaraderie 
of it as well. 

862
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,760
The actual day that it's the day
that it happened, you know, the,

863
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,880
the kind of logistics of it all,
all that kind of against all 

864
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,000
kind of problem solving, you 
know, and we're all, I didn't do

865
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,640
much of that. 
To be fair, that time was all 

866
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,760
done at Paul and John Connolly 
and, and people like that. 

867
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,960
But I just went, I just turned 
up and ran. 

868
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,400
But I mean, I think those, those
endeavours were brilliant. 

869
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,080
The Scottish National Trail and 
that was just wonderful. 

870
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,720
I mean, some of the remotest 
parts of Scotland were in 

871
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,600
running. 
And in the middle of the night, 

872
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,880
I'll never forget Marco and I 
had a section to do. 

873
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:27,360
I think we started at 10:00 at 
night and we're finishing at 

874
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,200
like 4:00 AM in the morning or 
something. 

875
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,080
Like head torches on multiple 
head torches going over these, 

876
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,600
what they're called cable 
fairies, the wire bridges, you 

877
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:40,280
know, you've got a cable that 
goes across a river that's in 

878
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,960
spate and then another cable up 
above to hold onto and you've 

879
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,280
got to shimmy along these cables
to get across them. 

880
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,240
These kind of memories were just
fantastic and actually had a had

881
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:53,040
a new the rave. 
The big, the big rage at that 

882
00:48:53,040 --> 00:49:00,240
point was the single skin gore 
Tex rainproof jackets right now 

883
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,560
like £300 and we all got a deal 
from somewhere. 

884
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:07,960
So we all had these Salomon ones
on and they were cheaper than 

885
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,200
£300, never paid that for them, 
but everybody buying these 

886
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,280
Salomon ones and everybody was 
mourning that as soon as they 

887
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,920
get in the wind they were 
getting the Salomon was getting 

888
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,720
blown off them because they 
weren't sealed properly or 

889
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:20,640
something like that. 
So all the other decals not that

890
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,160
were on these jackets were all 
flying off them. 

891
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,200
Mine's was brilliant. 
Mine's was perfect, right? 

892
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,600
So just as you say my man, wrong
mind that mine is absolutely 

893
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,080
perfect. 
Running down. 

894
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,080
I don't you know where we were 
running The middle of nowhere, 

895
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:37,000
trapped in a rock went flight, 
my face down in the mud. 

896
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,400
My watch set off the alarm to 
send to my wife to say come and 

897
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,080
get me because you thought I'd 
fallen off a Cliff and I looked 

898
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,600
down. 
The only thing was boring me was

899
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,760
a massive RIP in this Cortex 
jacket. 

900
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:51,840
I was gutted after me moaning 
their bragging to everybody that

901
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,000
means was stolen one piece and 
this was all falling apart. 

902
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,800
But there you go. 
But the, the, the endeavours 

903
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:01,760
were, was fantastic and it was 
all meeting up and, and all 

904
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,440
getting together that cut you 
from the very end of it. 

905
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,800
We all had red pylon T-shirts on
running along the grass and all 

906
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:08,920
that. 
It was just, it was a wonderful 

907
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,360
experience and we raised a lot 
of money for charity. 

908
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,480
So yeah, in terms of running, 
these are they're probably my 

909
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,560
best experiences rather than any
particular race. 

910
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,400
And you mentioned earlier on 
that you were out for a run 

911
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:32,520
today, so why do you still run? 
This question, you know, I think

912
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,320
it's, I'm trying to think about 
this today, actually, while I 

913
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,800
was out running, OK, but I 
didn't, you sent me another one.

914
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,680
So I didn't get to think about 
it that well. 

915
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,880
But it's, it's always one of 
those questions that like, it 

916
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,520
sounds really simple, isn't it? 
Why do you run? 

917
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,480
It's like a really simply 
phrased question. 

918
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:52,640
But I think the answers probably
changes a bit over time. 

919
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:58,120
You know, I think initially, 
certainly as an adult, initially

920
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:01,400
started just to get fat and you 
realized how unfit I was and the

921
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,760
sort of bad lifestyle that I had
and my 20s and things. 

922
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,680
But it quickly became more than 
just that. 

923
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,840
It quickly became more than just
trying to get fat and gives you 

924
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:13,400
a sense of structure and 
purpose. 

925
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,320
And, and you've just said about 
my background. 

926
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,960
My background is all about 
structure and it's all about, 

927
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,400
you know, I'm a coder. 
That's essentially why I'm, I'm 

928
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,880
not doing that anymore. 
I've off the tools these days, 

929
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,800
but that's, that's, that's my 
background. 

930
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,440
It's like problem solving 
structure and, and, and and what

931
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,320
have you. 
And I think running gave me 

932
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,120
that, but also gave it to my 
other parts of my life as well. 

933
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,920
So when I think when running's 
going well, other parts of your 

934
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,280
life go well too and you can 
bring those skills in to other 

935
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,880
parts of your life. 
And it probably needed it as 

936
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,880
well. 
I think outside of work, I was 

937
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,040
probably pretty chaotic, but 
chaotic self destruct type 

938
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:56,280
lifestyle that I was, I was on. 
So I think that is really 

939
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,720
important to me, that structure 
of training structures, that 

940
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:05,120
having a habit now, it's not 
like running's a part of my life

941
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,520
now, it's not like a part of us,
it's a chore or anything like 

942
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,040
that. 
It's just something that I do 

943
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:13,920
every day. 
But I enjoy the simplicity of it

944
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:15,840
as well. 
You know, you just stick your 

945
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,640
shoes on, out the door, away you
go, clear head. 

946
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:20,720
That's what's also really good 
for. 

947
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,400
But I think over the years it's 
just it's given me some 

948
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,600
incredible experiences 
travelling to races, meeting new

949
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:32,000
people through the sport. 
I've got some great memories 

950
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:38,280
from races, events, even 
supporting great experiences 

951
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:43,240
from coaching, you know, it just
gives me so much satisfaction. 

952
00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:45,520
Yeah, that's probably why I 
still do it. 

953
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:51,120
And with you say you run most 
days, every day. 

954
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:55,960
Do you have a favorite session 
of type of run that you like to 

955
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,160
do it you enjoy speed or tempo? 
Yeezy Long? 

956
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:04,200
You know, I actually love being 
on the trails as a Roadrunner, 

957
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,120
which I probably am. 
I've had to define myself as a 

958
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:08,400
runner. 
That would probably what I'd say

959
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,480
I am. 
But it's, I think it's a, that's

960
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,000
like because of the situation 
I'm in, like it's difficult for 

961
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,520
me to get to the hills because 
I've got a lot to arrange 

962
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,880
outside of that. 
And the hills are not close. 

963
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,920
The Pentlands are 10 miles from 
here, so that is fairly close. 

964
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,160
But again, it's a 15 to 20 
minute journey and if you get 

965
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,280
stuck on the bypass, it's three 
day journey just to get there. 

966
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:38,040
And so I tend not to do that. 
But I, I think that's certainly 

967
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,800
what I'd like to be doing a lot 
more of, of trails. 

968
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:45,160
But no, I'd probably just define
myself as a Roadrunner. 

969
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:46,160
Sorry, I kind of lost the 
question. 

970
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:47,680
What was it? 
I'm getting a bit sick. 

971
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:51,160
What's your favorite kind of 
session for going out? 

972
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,000
For sessions, that's it. 
So probably even come back to 

973
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,960
the stuff we spoke about earlier
in the hard side of things, 

974
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,280
those threshold sessions I'm 
finding really useful just now. 

975
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,400
And I think it's because I'm now
a lot older. 

976
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:05,760
Speed work doesn't come easy 
anymore. 

977
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,960
Like really fast stuff doesn't 
come easy. 

978
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,760
And the, the, the, the, the 
incidences of injuries on it as 

979
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,280
well. 
My hamstrings have been dreadful

980
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,960
for the last couple of years. 
Just constantly niggling and 

981
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,480
constantly injured. 
And as soon as I go up to any 

982
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,440
kind of speed, I can feel it 
again. 

983
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,720
And I just don't want to be out 
for any length of time. 

984
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:25,960
And so I've kind of settled back
down again to threshold work. 

985
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,240
And sometimes I've been doing 
double threshold days and things

986
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:30,160
and seems to be working quite 
well. 

987
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:33,360
So I think they're probably my 
best ones. 

988
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:41,440
Like today I did 36 K yeah, 3637
Ki, did 12 by 2K in the middle 

989
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,640
of that with an easy warm up and
cool down. 

990
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,520
It's my long run, part of my 
long run. 

991
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,320
And I absolutely loved it. 
I was absolutely buzzing when I 

992
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,480
came back last week. 
I think I did 5K in my long runs

993
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,240
during the week. 
There's no journey because I'm 

994
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:57,440
doing 5K reps included 3K3 by 5K
sort of threshold pace. 

995
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,680
I just get a lot of enjoyment 
and that you get a lot of volume

996
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:11,000
and without the without the the 
injury ruinous that I seem to 

997
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,760
have. 
So yeah, I think there's 

998
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,880
threshold sessions. 
That's a short answer. 

999
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,160
That's a very long way to say 
threshold sessions. 

1000
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,320
And it seems to be fashionable 
these days. 

1001
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,120
You know, I've been doing it 
for, well, since the hard days 

1002
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:26,080
make so, but yeah, yeah, they're
my best. 

1003
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:31,320
Well, you mentioned there you 
did your long run with a tempo 

1004
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,080
session in the middle. 
Yesterday my run was seven mile 

1005
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,960
run to park run. 
Did a decent session at park run

1006
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,960
and then run home. 
So yeah, same. 

1007
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,520
Thing. 
Yeah, yeah, I encourage my 

1008
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,560
athletes to do that as well, 
especially for close to a park 

1009
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,400
run. 
You know, within 5-6 miles of 

1010
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:49,400
it. 
I'll do the exactly the same 

1011
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,840
session. 
It's good, yeah. 

1012
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:58,760
So you, you said that Nikki sent
you a question earlier on and 

1013
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,280
that interrupted what you were 
thinking about because you are 

1014
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,000
going to answer the the question
that we so you were thinking 

1015
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,400
about coming on this podcast, 
obviously, because that's all 

1016
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,760
everybody thinks about. 
But when when you're not lining 

1017
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,880
up to be on here, what are you 
normally thinking about when 

1018
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,360
you're running? 
Oh geez, yeah. 

1019
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:22,840
Simple questions. 
I think of it when I'm running. 

1020
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,000
Yeah, it's probably, it's 
probably the same things as most

1021
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,640
people, you know, it's like 
pacing or what session you're 

1022
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,320
doing have what kind of Rep 
you're on. 

1023
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,360
I actually got my arithmetic 
wrong today, so I counted wrong.

1024
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,480
But you know, after two and 
about hours of hard work, my 

1025
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:37,720
arithmetic just goes out the 
window. 

1026
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:39,960
Despite having a background in 
maths. 

1027
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:45,280
There you go. 
And occasionally question why 

1028
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,360
I'm doing it as well. 
You know, I go through all those

1029
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:48,880
kind of phases. 
I think everybody does. 

1030
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:52,960
But you know, I think an uneasy 
run. 

1031
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,880
I probably just let my mind 
wander. 

1032
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,760
You know, I think we've all been
in that kind of zone space where

1033
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,360
things just thoughts just roll 
into your mind and then roll 

1034
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,720
back out again and roll back in.
It's almost like in a Zen, it's 

1035
00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:06,520
almost like in a flow status 
that you get into. 

1036
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:08,840
And I can never really remember 
what I've been thinking about, 

1037
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:11,280
but I know I got home and I'm 
happy that the thoughts that 

1038
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,280
I've been having, I've been 
good. 

1039
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:15,200
So I think that's a lot, a lot 
of the stuff I do, I do a lot of

1040
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,640
easy running. 
So that tends to be, tends to be

1041
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:24,040
what happens most of the time. 
But I think, you know, like 

1042
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,160
during, during this sort of 
harder sessions, it's much less 

1043
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,760
philosophical than that. 
It's, it's usually about how 

1044
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:35,040
much longer or God, this hurts 
or whatever, or how many more 

1045
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,480
can actually cope with this. 
Why am I doing this? 

1046
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,800
I'm so old and so, you know, all
those kind of thoughts come into

1047
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,600
it. 
But yeah, it varies. 

1048
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:44,200
It varies just like everyone 
else I think. 

1049
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,560
I like how you think about your 
sessions and do run on math 

1050
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,880
because I think a lot of people 
do that when they're doing a set

1051
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,400
session. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1052
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,200
And you've done epic events. 
You mentioned Comrades as well 

1053
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:06,520
back in 2018. 
Is the is it a dream race or a 

1054
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:09,680
bucket list race that's still on
the list that you would love to 

1055
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,600
go and do? 
Yeah, You know, I did think 

1056
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,200
about this one, but I don't need
to think about it much. 

1057
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:22,840
You know, in 2019, after the 
ACP, I think I've done a couple 

1058
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,560
more races that you can't 
remember, but in November time I

1059
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,000
entered the West Island Way and 
because I hadn't done it before,

1060
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,440
but I'd ran up and down that 
route God knows how many times. 

1061
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,280
Like I know at the back of my 
like the back of my hand, either

1062
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,920
been in a race or just in 
training sessions or what have 

1063
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,000
you. 
And I was so focused on it. 

1064
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:41,560
That's exactly what I wanted to 
do. 

1065
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,960
I wanted to do the best time and
we wanted to compete. 

1066
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:47,520
I was in really good shape. 
I wanted to see if I could worry

1067
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,400
anybody at the front of the 
race, that kind of thing. 

1068
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:53,160
And so much so that actually 
spent a fortune when it went did

1069
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:57,400
Transgran Canaria 2020 as part 
of the training for it just to 

1070
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,200
get some real elevation and then
a race environment. 

1071
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:02,080
And that was brilliant over 
there. 

1072
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,320
I absolutely loved that race. 
Didn't do particularly well in 

1073
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,400
it, but against all this 
mountain goats that blood over 

1074
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:11,320
that side of the world, but 
really focused on the West 

1075
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,120
timing way. 
But came back from Grand Trans 

1076
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,160
Grand Canaria, back from Grand 
Canaria. 

1077
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,360
And a week later we went 
strength to walk down and that 

1078
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,280
was that. 
That was a W timing way dream 

1079
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:23,520
over. 
And I was probably in the best 

1080
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:26,040
shape of my life. 
I was pretty gutted about it. 

1081
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,640
But I've never had the 
opportunity to go back to it. 

1082
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:34,880
I've either been owl injured or 
I've moved away from ultra 

1083
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,440
slightly, just temporarily, but 
certainly that's where I am just

1084
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:44,080
now. 
And so it's not your Beauty and 

1085
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:48,800
Bees or the Barclay Marathons. 
You had the ladder on last week 

1086
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:54,360
speaking about them and then so 
other ones like Western States 

1087
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,240
and all these kind of Hard Rock 
and all that big ones. 

1088
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:00,960
I my bucket list is a waste time
on me and one year I will do it.

1089
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,720
When I get back into it, I'll 
definitely get fit enough to to 

1090
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,160
complete it. 
I might not worry the guys at 

1091
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,320
the front anymore, but I'll 
definitely complete it. 

1092
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:13,520
Sounds like you're getting back 
into it and that is your target.

1093
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:20,840
Not at the moment, no. 
I actually so busy, mate. 

1094
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:25,240
I can't afford the time anymore 
to be out there for six hours on

1095
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,520
a Saturday or Sunday or find the
time to go away for a full day 

1096
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,200
just to go in a training session
that lasts all day or whatever, 

1097
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:33,800
you know? 
And I love those days that were 

1098
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,600
absolutely brilliant. 
I'd love to be able to do it 

1099
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,640
again and I will eventually, but
at the moment there's too much, 

1100
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,360
there's too much other strings 
being pulled elsewhere that for 

1101
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:43,760
me to do that. 
So I've got to come back down 

1102
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,600
the distances a wee bit and 
training is not as focused as it

1103
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,320
used to be. 
But yeah, it, it will get done 

1104
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,360
and I will focus on it and I'll 
maybe go, I don't know if 

1105
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,280
there's any age group records in
there or anything like that. 

1106
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,800
I might have a wee go out, but 
we'll see. 

1107
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,600
Maybe in the next few years I'll
be able to get another 

1108
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,480
opportunity at it have. 
You done the fling as well, Bob.

1109
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,800
I've not done the race, no, But 
I have done the route many, many

1110
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,120
times, yeah. 
Do you have a favorite half then

1111
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,640
because you mentioned about 
doing the devil, do you prefer 

1112
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:15,960
like the fling side or the devil
side? 

1113
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:18,560
Oh, the devil side, Yeah, it's 
just stunning, isn't it? 

1114
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:19,960
I mean, Glencoe is just 
beautiful. 

1115
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,560
So yeah, the the fling, it's OK,
isn't it? 

1116
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,480
It's just OK. 
That lock side's horrendous, but

1117
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:29,280
some people love it, some people
hate it. 

1118
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,240
I'm in the latter camp. 
I absolutely hate it. 

1119
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,720
It's just not my some people 
have our own knack for this kind

1120
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:37,000
of stuff. 
You know, I'm not a natural off 

1121
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:38,720
road runner. 
That's definitely not me. 

1122
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,720
I mean my cross country is 
diabolical. 

1123
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:44,440
Even when I was at my fittest, 
my cross country's still 

1124
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:49,280
terrible and and my trail 
running is not much better, but 

1125
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,240
I actually love it more than I 
do the road. 

1126
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,840
So hence why that's probably my 
bucket list 1 and not like I 

1127
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,280
returned to comrades or some 
other big Rd. ultra. 

1128
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,280
Yeah, it would be the best time 
to me at some point soon. 

1129
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:10,640
Watch this space. 
And next question is, it can be 

1130
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:14,480
a difficult one, but we ask 
everybody, is there anybody that

1131
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:21,600
you would love to run with, 
either fictional or real, alive 

1132
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,720
or not? 
Yeah, there's two people 

1133
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:29,320
actually, and they're both 
alive, as far as I know. 

1134
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,840
And the first one is Kylie 
Minogue, or the crushing Kylie 

1135
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:39,480
Minogue since I was about 14. 
And I know she does a bit of 

1136
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,560
jogging. 
And so I think it would be great

1137
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:46,560
to get out for a run with Kylie 
and just see how she is. 

1138
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,640
But on a more serious side, I 
think Steve Cram would probably 

1139
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,400
be the guy I'd like to go for a 
run with. 

1140
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,720
And it's only because it's come 
from lots of people that I would

1141
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:57,200
love to go for a run with, don't
get me wrong. 

1142
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,560
But when I was a kid, Steve Cam 
was my hero. 

1143
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,600
And, and, and sort of still as I
suppose, although his 

1144
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,960
commentary's pretty rubbish, 
he's running was absolutely 

1145
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,280
superb. 
Actually a funny story about 

1146
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:11,760
him. 
You know, when I worked in 

1147
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:16,400
Newcastle, my wife travelled 
down one weekend and we're going

1148
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,560
to go to Nice on holiday for a 
few days and finding out a 

1149
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:24,400
Newcastle airport sitting in the
departure lounge who's sitting 

1150
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:28,640
directly across from me about 6 
meters away, Steve Cram with an 

1151
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:34,680
FT Financial Times paper. 
Anyway, he was sitting directly 

1152
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,160
across me. 
I'm going Steve Cram, Steve 

1153
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,080
Cram. 
I was completely starstruck and 

1154
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,520
couldn't pluck up the courage to
go over and say hello or 

1155
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:45,320
anything like that. 
And then my wife said she says 

1156
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:48,080
you need to do the other end. 
He was on the same flight as he 

1157
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,240
was going. 
I think he lives in Monaco or 

1158
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:52,760
probably around that area or 
going to visit someone in 

1159
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,240
Monaco, which is very close to 
Nice. 

1160
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,360
And she said, but wait to get to
the end when we're collecting 

1161
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,720
our bags, go speak to him. 
So the whole flight I was like, 

1162
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:03,040
right, right, we're going to see
Steve. 

1163
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,080
How am I going to bring this up?
What's my first words going to 

1164
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,360
be? 
I was completely panicking about

1165
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:08,680
it. 
I'm not normally like that, but 

1166
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:12,040
it was for him. 
And he bloody off the plane with

1167
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:13,760
hand luggage and just would stay
at the airport. 

1168
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:15,920
And I missed him. 
So I was absolutely guilty. 

1169
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,200
I was all ready to meet my idol 
and it didn't happen. 

1170
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,320
So I'm kind of hoping I might do
it at some point. 

1171
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:23,840
But yeah, Cam, Cam, all 
seriousness. 

1172
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,880
And Kaylee for a bit of fun. 
That's a fun answer. 

1173
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:29,880
I like that. 
And then if Haley's so slow, 

1174
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:31,520
she's she's only small, isn't 
she? 

1175
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:34,120
So you could pick it up. 
I just put a piggyback. 

1176
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:37,480
Yeah. 
Put in my ultimate direction 

1177
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:40,760
sack. 
Well, that's. 

1178
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,960
Wait, wait. 
Well, this is International 

1179
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:47,240
Women's Day that we're recording
on, so we don't condone putting 

1180
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:54,800
people in sacks especially. 
Well, this week I was. 

1181
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:57,280
Thinking about Kylie there, 
about comfort. 

1182
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:01,480
That was all. 
This week we're introducing a 

1183
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:06,760
new element to the podcast, and 
you have the privilege of being 

1184
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:11,120
asked the first question. 
So this question comes from last

1185
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:15,880
week's guest, Ian Bethune. 
And what he asked and he didn't 

1186
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:19,160
know who the guest was. 
That's coming on this week. 

1187
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:24,000
If you could invent a fantasy 
race, any course, any format, 

1188
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,400
any distance, what would it be? 
And it is up to you whether you 

1189
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:30,920
would run it or not. 
Yeah, OK. 

1190
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:34,560
How do we think about this today
when I was out my run, because 

1191
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:36,720
it actually came through as a 
message while I was in the long 

1192
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,760
run in a warm up section. 
And I don't know if it's your 

1193
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:42,360
fault that I missed the one Rep 
off the end, Nikki, because I'm 

1194
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:44,800
still thinking about it towards 
the end of my arithmetic went 

1195
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:48,040
out or not. 
But yeah, I think, I think I 

1196
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:49,720
thought there's some kind of 
combo type thing. 

1197
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:51,160
That's a really good question, 
by the way. 

1198
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:54,680
I really like it. 
I'd probably start off with some

1199
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,680
kind of mountain trail section, 
right? 

1200
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:01,360
Just up in the mountains, get up
high, nothing too strenuous 

1201
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,360
maybe. 
But somewhere that big 

1202
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:06,680
landscape, somewhere, I don't 
know, for me it would be going 

1203
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,680
cool, torrid and somewhere like 
that. 

1204
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,400
Big landscapes, big mountains 
around you, something like that.

1205
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,560
Maybe a few hidden waterfalls up
there, the falls of glomer stuff

1206
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:18,320
up maybe up that area. 
It's just beautiful. 

1207
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,560
So up there. 
And then somewhere in the middle

1208
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,280
you have to go on a flat fast 
Rd. section. 

1209
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:27,320
So you have to think about 
shoes, you have to think about 

1210
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:32,000
kit that can attack that kind of
maybe a slight downhill just 

1211
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,040
kind of tempt you going to be a 
bit faster than you should, 

1212
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,600
something like that. 
But I thought I'd also spend a 

1213
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,200
few obstacles. 
So maybe like that wire bridge I

1214
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:43,000
was talking about earlier there,
the cable ferry, something like 

1215
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:44,200
them. 
They were horrendous. 

1216
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:46,640
When we did that, Marco just 
breezed across it. 

1217
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,480
I thought I was going to end up 
in some Firth somewhere, like 

1218
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:52,720
getting carried away in the 
river because I was all over the

1219
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,720
place. 
The whole thing was shaking like

1220
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:56,000
that. 
So I mean, some of those kind of

1221
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,680
things would be great. 
Nothing too ridiculous of 

1222
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:03,000
course, but just some maybe a 
wee bit challenging and a few 

1223
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:07,760
wire bridges maybe to throw in 
distance wise, maybe 50-60 Ki 

1224
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:09,560
think maybe some kind of 
adventure ultra. 

1225
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:12,880
Maybe you could call it an 
adventure Ultra long enough to 

1226
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,320
feel like a good day out, a good
epic day out, but not not 

1227
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,840
impossible for for the majority 
of us and hot. 

1228
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:22,720
I think I definitely have age 
stations out there. 

1229
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:27,400
They'd be selling hot chocolate,
not selling giving away cake. 

1230
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:32,720
Maybe a cheeky gel or two, some 
chocolate. 

1231
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:38,160
And absolutely I would run it 
probably be a piece that I could

1232
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,600
enjoy the scenery and and things
like that rather than it being a

1233
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,520
kind of flat out race. 
But I think everybody, I think 

1234
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:47,760
it'd be great to have it so that
everybody finishes roughly the 

1235
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:49,360
same time. 
I don't know how the handicap 

1236
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:53,800
system would work, but roughly 
the same time at a sunset with a

1237
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:55,600
medal. 
It's actually like a small 

1238
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:57,640
compass or something, or even a 
bit of chocolate. 

1239
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,080
Yeah. 
And maybe have some stories that

1240
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:03,960
they could tell for for years to
come. 

1241
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:10,840
That sounds like a great race. 
Yeah. 

1242
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:15,720
And going forward for yourself, 
what's next running wise? 

1243
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:21,279
I'm running London Marathon in 
about 7 weeks today. 

1244
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:24,319
I think it might be so, hence 
why all this threshold, all this

1245
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:26,359
marathon paste work I'm doing at
the minute. 

1246
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:27,760
So yeah, I'm looking forward to 
that. 

1247
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:35,800
I did Inverness Marathon and 
September last year and made all

1248
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:37,880
the schoolboy errors that I used
to do when I first started 

1249
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:39,880
running. 
So I've got a bit of a score to 

1250
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,240
settle with a marathon. 
Going to try and go for a new 

1251
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,600
age group PB, so we'll see how 
that works out. 

1252
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:46,439
Yeah. 
And then it probably just be the

1253
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:50,680
summer of short Rd. races and 
things just to tick over and see

1254
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,920
what happens later on this year 
and early next year. 

1255
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:59,359
You mentioned earlier by doing a
race in China, all expenses 

1256
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:03,760
paid. 
How what kind of race was it? 

1257
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:07,479
How was the Obviously they've 
got cultural differences to what

1258
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:11,319
we have over here. 
There's stories about you can't 

1259
01:09:11,319 --> 01:09:14,240
go in the country without being 
watched all 24/7. 

1260
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:15,479
How? 
How was that? 

1261
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:23,080
It was interesting, interesting 
country, and it's enormous. 

1262
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,439
I don't think I'd appreciate it,
the scale of it. 

1263
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,479
I mean, first we flew into Wuhan
of all places, you know, where 

1264
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:34,160
the COVID-19 apparently started,
allegedly started before you get

1265
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:38,760
into trouble with the lawyers. 
I flew into Wuhan and then we 

1266
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,279
got into a bus. 
There's, there was always people

1267
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:43,279
with you, right? 
There was, there was always 

1268
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:49,359
representatives from the the 
organizing committee around you,

1269
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,399
all points or whether they were 
Secret Service or just normal 

1270
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:55,480
people have no idea. 
But they escorted you off the 

1271
01:09:55,480 --> 01:09:58,680
plane, basically escorted you 
into the bus, escorted you to 

1272
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:00,520
the hotel, all that kind of 
stuff. 

1273
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:02,800
There was always people around 
to make and there was always a 

1274
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:04,960
lot of people that could spoke, 
speak really good English as 

1275
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:09,880
well with you. 
But the race itself was 

1276
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:12,440
enormous. 
It was absolutely enormous. 

1277
01:10:12,440 --> 01:10:14,560
It's one of the big, it's like, 
it was like comrades. 

1278
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:17,720
There was for the amount of 
people that were in it and there

1279
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:20,600
was a 50K and 100K. 
And there's a few other people 

1280
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:24,160
from the UK over that I knew. 
Actually Paul Giblin was there 

1281
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:26,000
as well. 
He, I think he was seeing New 

1282
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:27,640
Zealand at the time and came 
over for it. 

1283
01:10:28,480 --> 01:10:31,400
He'd also managed to get himself
an invite to as well. 

1284
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:33,240
So it was good to meet up with 
him of course. 

1285
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:39,120
But yeah, I think you were 
always watched. 

1286
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,080
The race itself didn't go 
particularly well for me. 

1287
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:45,280
I did the 50K because I've been 
doing so many 100 KS, my legs 

1288
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:47,120
probably wouldn't take another 
100K that year. 

1289
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:49,200
But the experience was really 
good. 

1290
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:53,000
It's actually funny, we did pay 
for our flights ourselves and 

1291
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,240
all the accommodation and travel
and food and all that was all 

1292
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:58,720
put on for you when you got 
there, but they reimbursed you 

1293
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:02,400
in in dollars, American dollars 
and an envelope. 

1294
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,080
That's how you got your fight 
fights money back. 

1295
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:07,120
I don't know what that means. 
I don't know. 

1296
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:09,040
I said I don't really thought 
too much about it, but it wasn't

1297
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,400
like here's a bank transfer and 
I ban bank transfer. 

1298
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,280
It was like it was dollars you 
got back. 

1299
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:16,960
It's a bit odd. 
But anyway, the food was even 

1300
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:19,840
older. 
I mean, I've got photographs of 

1301
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:23,920
some of this stuff that you 
wouldn't, you wouldn't feed a 

1302
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,480
rat this stuff, honestly. 
And that's not to say all 

1303
01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:29,400
Chinese food is like that. 
I'm not saying that at all. 

1304
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:34,640
The hotel we were in, we had 
aardvark soup, right? 

1305
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:39,120
Got images of this stuff. 
I mean, Paul, I think Paul's 

1306
01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:41,200
vegan, so he wasn't touching the
aardvark soup. 

1307
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:42,920
No one, there wasn't anybody 
else, by the way. 

1308
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,440
Nobody was touching that stuff. 
It was great. 

1309
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,920
It was like green watery. 
I just, I am not touching 

1310
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:52,240
anything near that. 
But all I saw Polly all weekend 

1311
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:55,160
was just rice that was never 
touched anything else. 

1312
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:58,000
There was absolutely nothing 
else suitable for him. 

1313
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:00,960
I don't think I actually much 
more than race actually, to be 

1314
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,000
honest. 
So I'm, I'm sure China has got 

1315
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:05,840
some fantastic food. 
It just wasn't in that hotel 

1316
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,840
that we were in. 
But yeah, it was a it was a 

1317
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:10,960
definite experience. 
I think we're definitely always 

1318
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,280
had company, that's for sure. 
Everybody you went, it was 

1319
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:14,640
company. 
It was you were never on your 

1320
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:20,600
own and the race was super well 
organized, lots of support out 

1321
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,400
as well. 
People lined the whole route. 

1322
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:30,000
So it's similar to Comrades like
that else was odd about it. 

1323
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:35,160
Yeah, I think that's probably 
about it was an odd race, yeah. 

1324
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,720
And get to the last question, 
unless Nikki's got anything 

1325
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,160
else. 
The only thing I'll say is I've 

1326
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,200
got a really good friend that 
goes backwards and forwards to 

1327
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,480
China for business and some of 
the pictures she sends me of the

1328
01:12:49,480 --> 01:12:52,880
foods, as I'll vouch for you, 
were like, what is that? 

1329
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,840
And then sometimes it's like, Oh
yes, that's clearly a butt 

1330
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,800
cloth, like how are you not? 
And the fish have still got the 

1331
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:02,000
heads on them. 
I mean, that would actually be 

1332
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:06,320
more normal probably. 
But no, it's not for me either. 

1333
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:08,720
Yeah, I remember the fish ship 
had full fish in it. 

1334
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:10,040
That's right. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1335
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:20,920
See my soup is is OK straight 
out of the 10, right? 

1336
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:26,480
If you were, if somebody was 
starting out and it might be 

1337
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:32,400
yourself starting running again 
for the second time, what would 

1338
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:34,440
be the thing that you would tell
that runner? 

1339
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:38,640
Yeah. 
How do we think about this today

1340
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,840
as well, actually. 
So I think probably the most 

1341
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:44,920
important thing is like starting
again, which is what I've done. 

1342
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:49,800
And it might have seemed like at
the time, it's not the same as 

1343
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:51,480
starting from scratch, starting 
from nothing. 

1344
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:58,120
So I think if you, even if you 
have a time away from the sport,

1345
01:13:58,480 --> 01:14:02,080
even if it's a prolonged period 
of time or it's through injury 

1346
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,960
or illness or life just getting 
busy and, and you've lost a bit 

1347
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,280
of motivation. 
And you're still going to bring 

1348
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:09,640
all the experiences you've had 
before, all the stuff that 

1349
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:13,240
you've built up before. 
You know what training is going 

1350
01:14:13,240 --> 01:14:15,680
to feel like. 
You know how the races work, you

1351
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:17,840
know, you know, have healing and
works. 

1352
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:20,200
It works. 
And you've probably got a good 

1353
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:25,200
understanding of your own, like 
strengths and weaknesses much 

1354
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:26,720
better than you did the first 
time around. 

1355
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:28,880
So it's never going to be, it 
shouldn't never be as daunting. 

1356
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,160
And maybe people should maybe 
not think about it being as 

1357
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:34,240
daunting as it maybe as to 
someone who's never done it 

1358
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:37,880
before. 
But I think the key, the key to 

1359
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,320
it always just to be patient, 
focus and rebuilding some 

1360
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:44,760
consistency and go back to that 
again, rather than going out and

1361
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,560
just hitting it hard because 
you're just going to it's a one 

1362
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:50,800
way road to injury, illness or 
both. 

1363
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:55,080
And so, you know, fitness will 
come back surprisingly quickly 

1364
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:57,600
if you just build a bit of 
consistency into your training. 

1365
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:59,320
Don't do anything too 
overwhelming. 

1366
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:03,640
Pick some races as well, maybe 
in the future, just to give 

1367
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:06,840
yourself a little bit more extra
motivation to aim for and, and 

1368
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:10,360
start to build your program or 
your your training around that 

1369
01:15:10,360 --> 01:15:14,600
sort of race. 
Most runners go through phases 

1370
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:17,360
like that, you know, and, and 
some people have a lot of time 

1371
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,880
away and, and sometimes you just
need a bit of a reset from it 

1372
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,800
all as well. 
And I totally get all that. 

1373
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:26,000
Well, I think, I think it's part
of that. 

1374
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:28,840
I think it's part of the sport. 
I think if you stay consistent, 

1375
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:32,600
keep things in sort of 
perspective in that as well, 

1376
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:34,920
you'll often come back much 
stronger. 

1377
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:37,800
And I think that's one of the 
things that probably does happen

1378
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:43,920
quite a lot. 
And with that being said, Bob's 

1379
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,520
not not out of running at the 
moment, but he's out there. 

1380
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:51,520
He would say that the ultra 
scene, he's going to come back, 

1381
01:15:51,880 --> 01:15:56,160
he's going to take it easy. 
He's going to focus on one race 

1382
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:57,640
and that's going to be the West 
Highland way. 

1383
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:00,240
It's all fat again. 
Let's make a. 

1384
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:02,640
Yeah, it's almost like we 
planned it. 

1385
01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:10,040
And when that happens, all we 
can say is good luck whenever 

1386
01:16:10,040 --> 01:16:14,080
that happens. 
And thank you very much. 

1387
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,840
It comes from me to say thank 
you, Bob, for coming on. 

1388
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:19,320
Thank you, Nikki, for being 
Nikki. 

1389
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:21,760
And it's goodbye for me. 
Thanks, Bob. 

1390
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:23,080
Thank you very much.