OK, welcome back and today I am joined by the new Scottish
Backyard ultra champion Thomas Ugong, who I'll let him explain
how he ended up in Scotland and all that good stuff.
But we'll start off with, how did you get into running?
Good afternoon, Mike. I got into running when I first
moved into Orkney. I needed something to do.
And I got inspired by one of my lecturer at the time, who was an
ultra runner as well. And yeah, I got started like
that because I needed something to do.
I was a student, had no money, no car, and I just needed to
spend some energy. So yeah.
You're a student, and we all know that running is the
cheapest thing when you buy 10 pairs of trainers a year.
Yeah, no, I started running. I had an old pair of, you know,
those five finger fibrum shoes and I decided to run the Hoy
half Marathon, Hoyson Island off the mainland of Ockney.
And the first ever run I went with those shoes to train for
the high Marth and I injured my calf for like 3 weeks after it.
But yeah, that was that was good fun.
Do you I? I've run in Vibrams as well.
I can't think. I used to run in metal trail
gloves as well. They're Oh yeah similar 0
cushioning but they don't have the toes.
I ran 53 miles in them. All right, OK.
I I I find that they are a tool. I wouldn't necessarily say
running them all the time, but I find them a good tool.
How's what's your opinion on them other than getting injured?
Well, I mean, I've since then I've never really run in them
again. I think I still have their
shoes, but I just found them no great to run in like kind of
steeper downhill. So that kind of put me off of
it, but I still run in zero drop and kind of slightly
minimalistic. Well, not I'm not a big fan of
like super big cushioned shoes. So yeah, still kind of yeah, I'm
not in like perfectly minimalistic shoes either, but I
like the zero drop. I think it makes sense to run
with like a more natural food position really.
What? What kind of shoes is it you're
normally running in there? Mostly those innovates whatever
they're called Trail Flight 270, yeah, so.
Yeah, I'm ultras is normally Gordon for their zero drop as
well. Yeah, I've had a few pairs of
ultras as well. They're good.
I had a pair at the at the Backyard Ultra.
Good, good to hear. I forgot to actually look to see
what you were wearing at the weekend.
Yeah. But anyway, getting back to what
we're supposed to be talking about.
What? What was your first race that
you did? So yeah, my first race was the
the Hoy half marathon, which was yeah, I did like an hour 51 I
think or something like that. The my first long distance race,
or like not necessarily long distance, but long hours race,
was the Ring of Steel in Kenlock leaving.
But it's only 29 kilometers and it's got 2 1/2 thousand meters
of elevation. So I still took a fair bit of
time to do that and that got me qualified to do the Highland
Flank, which was my first ultra. OK, and I'm I'm going to
interrupt the running talk. How did you end up in Orkney?
I ended up in Orkney as AI came to Orkney as an exchange student
from my French university. I I selected the course and
amongst multiple choices I had it.
And then I got accepted by the course.
And then one of my pals said, but do you know where Orkney is?
And I said, well no, it's in Scotland, it'll be fine.
And he said maybe you should look it up.
And so it was a bit, a bit unexpected, surely, I say.
But I mean, it's been 10 years. It'll be 10 years next month.
I've been in Orkney. So I guess it worked out fine
for me. And you, you met a girl stuck
with Orkney and the rest is history.
Exactly it. Yeah, I've now a girlfriend, a
house and a cat and yeah, that's me stuck, I think.
But it's so good. I mean, my partner, she's
accepted to come and crew from me at the race.
So you know, I can't explain. That's commitment for you, but.
Absolutely. So you said that you did the
skyline right then the skyline? The ring of steel.
Yeah, Ring of Steel. I don't know if they call that a
Skyline race, but yeah, it's one one of the Salomon races at the
Yeah the Festival. Let's call it.
Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I did the, I did the
Glencoe skyline, OK, two, two years ago as well.
That was that was hard. I've done it as a run, never as
part of the race. Yeah, it's, it's interesting to
like, try and run down steep rocky descents when like the
tallest hell we've got on the Orkney mainland is 200 meters
tall and just got farm tracks on it.
Yeah, I guess being up in Orkney, you're used to wind as
one thing that I, I, I'm 50 meters from the coast and wind
is a, a massive thing here. So I'm sure Orkney is quite the
same. Yeah, the wind and the brutal
wind, like all year round, really.
That's just what we do here. That's like.
So every time I go anywhere now, I'm like, oh, this is nice and
warm when my parents keep. Oh, sorry.
No, keep. Keep going.
When my parents came up for the race, they they messaged and
said oh it's only 19°, it's really cold because they were
just coming up from France. And I said it's 19°, it's really
hot because I was coming down from Ockney.
It's been 13° all year so far. So that was great.
Funny. Yeah, that's pretty much the
same as where I am. I'm just north of Aberdeen, so
it's, Oh yeah, similar conditions.
So we're a Hardy bunch. I did a race in March and it was
4° and I told the race director that anybody's of North, the
Hadrian's Walls got an advantage here because we're used to such
cold temperatures. Everybody else is used to like
10° warmer than us. So that's true.
It was an advantage of. Yeah, absolutely.
So getting back to your running, have you got any stand out races
that you've done? I think, well, I mean the I did
the the Jaguar de Fu, which is 100 mile with nearly 10,000
years of elevation across the Iranian island, which is an
island in the Indian Ocean near and near Mauritius, near
Madagascar. So that was that was my second
hundred mile race. And that was yeah, that was
amazing. Such a beautiful trip
altogether. Yeah, but that was also brutal.
Without the French accent. Is that diagonal defu?
Is that the same? Yeah, on Reunion Island.
Just just some. I'm matching up the the same
race. Yeah, that's, that's the one.
Yeah. Yeah.
So that was good. And then last year I did the
race across Scotland, which I suppose is also a pretty big
achievement. And then, yeah, that was also
interesting in terms of weather conditions, I suppose.
What would they like there? It was really wet.
It was it was really, really wet.
The first night was like a 27 odd mile section through long
grass fields and bogs and I think that destroyed the race
for most people that dropped out.
It's basically people that survived that night, survived
the rest of the race really. How do you think you survived
it? What did you do different?
I just, I think, well, I think I've got a product that works
quite well on my feet. I use this squirrel knot, but
they're happy to think and seems to be working pretty well for my
feet anyway so. If it works for you, stick with
it. Absolutely.
And this weekend, another obviously stand out race was the
Yeah I. Suppose yeah.
The backyard ultra at Blair Athol, but you've you've done
previous, your previous best was 27 I believe.
Yeah, that's right. And have you done any other
ones? Yes, you did.
You did Gosby last year because I was there as well.
I'm not not even sure how much did you do Gosby?
I did 25 from Gosby. So yeah, I did 27 hours in in
Orkney two years ago and that was my first, first backyard.
I got the assessed to you and Harrison that you had in the
podcast before, OK. Yeah.
And yeah, that was that was quite hard because it was just
like a lovely day, but it was really, really windy too.
And so that made it interesting. And then last year in Cosby,
yeah, I did 25 hours. That was kind of like to see if
my legs had recovered from the race across Scotland.
So I guess they went, they were, they were fine.
So you got looked after by Sarah and I can't even remember the
other person's name that runs the twats.
Oh yeah, that was Erica, I think.
Erica Yeah, that's the one up in Orkney and they do the backyard
up there. And then Ian won that race, but
he looked after you and gossipy as well.
Yeah, absolutely. So that was that was good.
Small circle. Small world there, Scotland.
So and then this year you've obviously came back to the the
Highlander. Had you changed anything from
what you were doing at the other two races and other two
backyards? Yeah, I mean, so the, OK
Backyard Ultra was my first and I was interested by Backyard
Ultra because I thought, oh, it's an interesting concept
just, you know, explore the main games.
And like, I feel like it's yeah, it's maybe even more emphasis
into like your mental strength than like a normal ultra.
So that's why I was, that's what got me into it, I suppose.
But yeah, for the for the Highlander this year, I really
kind of, I was like just went in with the goal to qualify for the
for the GB team for the satellite event in October.
So that I took the decision after I ran the Golsby one, I
thought, right, I'll go for it this year because the numbers to
qualify were still kind of accessible in terms of how many
loops you needed to do. So I got in touch with, I got
involved with a coach, Paul Wilson from Summit Ultra because
he had experience from Backyard Ultra.
So I thought, right, let's see, see if we can get me into it.
And Paul? Paul was on the team last time
round, I think yes, after winning in oh, he got the assist
to. Now you're testing me here,
assistants here in Perry at Cowshed.
Is that right? And he won at did he win at
Lionsgate? Two years, I don't know, but
something like that, yeah. So yeah, we, we, we started
working together in I think it basically in January really.
And I had signed up for the cow shed in April and the back and
the Islander as my backup race if I didn't manage to qualify at
the cow shed. And then it turns out the cow
cow shed got cancelled because of flooding, so the Highlander
become became my my main race. So what?
What kind of training do you do without divulging Paul's
secrets? It's obviously he's your coach,
but compared to what you would normally do for a standard
ultra, as you were, But how? How's it differ?
I think the weekly training was, I mean the training when I
started training before was similar structure to what I used
to do, which was to like focus sessions during the week and an
easier run during the week and then two longer runs at the
weekend. I guess the biggest difference
is Paul got me to do a very much backyard specific long runs at
the weekend. So I did a lot of loops from
like around my, my, my, my area. Really my created like a a loop
that was similar stats to what was the Islander and just did
some repeats on that during the weekend, practising food and
stuff like that. And then the Blair Athol estate
went and changed the Highlander course.
But I mean, I don't know if the the cost was actually that much
different compared to to the year before.
I don't know. I think about probably between
half and 2/3 were the same as before the the main hill was the
same but last course you started on a tarmac hill.
This time you went through 2 fields, the second one being
long grass. So although you're, you're
missing out a hill, it was on tarmac.
You're adding a field which is flat, but it's long grass.
So yeah, I I I've I did the the Loop 3 * I with the race this
year and I would have said it is compatible.
OK. Other people said that it was
totally different, but I think Grant Jean said it was easier
this year than it was last year. But.
I yeah, some people prefer this year, some people preferred last
year, I think. Yeah, I think it's just personal
preference. There wasn't much in it.
Yeah, but no, yeah. So going back to the coaching, I
think the biggest difference was just doing loops at the weekends
and practicing a bit more like feeding and yeah, just running
that back at ultra pace really. OK.
And and what is Backyard Ultra pace?
For me, I'm, I'm part of the slow, slow gang, not, not like
you. You're you're one of the fast,
fast looper. I'm I'm a slow, slow looper.
So I was aiming for like 50 odd minutes per loop 51.
So just taking it really easy and yeah, the pace, yeah.
I'm usually 44 or five or six minutes, so compared to you, but
compared to some people at the weekend, they were doing some
40s. Yeah, that's crazy.
But again, personal preference that does not work for me, so
it's whatever works. Absolutely, yeah.
And then I did like the first few loops on the island there I
was running. I thought I was like running too
slow, even from what I trained. So I put on their belt more pace
and then I suppose then it balances out.
Once you get tired, you just. Yeah, even.
Naturally slow down so. Yeah, but 51 minutes seems to
work for me anyway, so yeah. Good.
As long as you've got enough time to do what you need to do
when you get back, yeah. I had my perfect crew, so I
can't complain there. They took care of me so.
Yeah, I was just always to ask who?
Who was your crew? My crew was my partner who came
with me from Oakley and my parents came up from France as
well, so I was quite lucky to have three crew with me.
They managed to get a bit of sleep and stuff, so yeah.
And your coach, he. Was yeah, my coach surprised me
and turned up on the at the end of the 100 mile loop and he he
said yeah, it was good for to see him appear.
I'd I'd never met him before because he's based in England
and obviously I'm in Orkney, so we'd never met in person before.
So that was good. That was good for him to turn up
a. Good morale boosters.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just and keeping me focused and
keeping me on to my on to my objective.
So yeah, that was. What's been the feedback from
the crew? Are they happy with your
performance? What did they say you should
change? We've not had the proper debrief
yet. I think we need to change the
tent because the tent we had was really leaky when it was raining
a lot. So they were not, they were not
pleased with that. Yeah.
So that's one thing we need to change for sure.
But I think the rest of it was fine.
I had, we had loads of food and stuff.
Yeah, I don't know. I think one thing that could
help them maybe is to have like a bit more ideas on what food to
prepare for me that I like to eat and stuff.
But that'll also come with experience.
Yeah, I guess you know what I like in the race.
Doing the race, doing the crew for you, that gets you, gets
them the experience, not just you.
It's like you can improve, but that's how they improve by
experience, yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
They're crude for me, all three of them at the race across
Scotland last year. So they're getting, they're
getting pretty good now really. No, no criticism from me.
I'm not sure that you can criticize them, you're just
grateful for them looking after you.
Absolutely. My mum kept off the kept
offering to change my socks but I said no I'll, I'll keep doing
that myself. You're you're old enough to do
that yourself now. Yeah, that's it.
So it it's been. OK.
It's it's Thursday today and the race finished early hours Monday
morning. Yeah.
So have you slept since then? Because, well, I'm sure you've
slept, but are you in a proper sleep cycle again?
Yeah, I've I've slept, I've slept very, quite poorly after
the I've just after the race. Like, you know, we and then we
celebratory drink after the race was finished and then I went
into the van and I think I was awake.
Well, yeah, I went to bed at about 2:00 in the morning.
I think I was awake by 7 because just I had terrible night sweats
and then my legs were just so sore.
I just couldn't get comfortable in the van.
So that was me and Karen, my partner, She was sleeping next
to me and I was like, come on, do something.
No, I let her sleep because I thought, yeah, that's fair.
Yeah. And then Tuesday night we Monday
night we camped in leg. We did a better tourism because
we had to wait till the next evening to get on the boat back
to Ockney. So slept better that night, but
still not very late in the morning because yeah, again, my
legs were still a bit uncomfortable.
But yeah, I'm sure I'll get to some proper sleep soon.
So talking about logistics was a WIC to I'm not even sure what
the name of the term. Is it WIC where you get the the
ferry over? No, I get the ferry in in Turzo
and scrap. That's the one, no?
That's what I was thinking of. I'm just rubbish with geography.
Yeah. So yeah, the the ferry in
Thursday and then it was like, well, it's about four and a half
hour drive to be Arathos. So we did that on on Thursday
and Friday last week. So yeah, in Ogney it's always a
a day or two of travelling before you can get to any races.
So you have to treat any race like a big race.
You have to make the most of the time away from the island.
Yes. So you, you took the van down.
So you obviously had enough stuff with you, you had your
tent. So I, I can't imagine going down
like doing a, a race abroad and having to take all your kit for
your plan for three or four days, but on a plane because all
you can take is. Yeah.
You're kit and that's it. Yeah, well, yeah, no, that that
was a laugh get we took away with us for the for the race
especially because having three crew with you is great, but you
also need a lot more stuff to like for the crew because you
know, you you need them to be comfortable as well.
So you need more like chairs and, you know, make sure that
they have like enough food for them and stuff like that.
So yeah, it's it's it's easier to have a more crew, but it's
also more logistics for sure. But yeah, for the travelling
abroad thing, I remember when I went to this race at the Iranian
island, I basically like took my cabin luggage to.
I put all my race stuff in it because I was like, if my my
whole luggage don't arrive, at least I'll have my cabin luggage
with me. So I don't care if my normal
stuff don't arrive, I just want my my running stuff with me.
As long as you've got your trainers and a pair of shorts
then you can and and a credit card.
Yeah. So you've rough sleeping.
What about any injuries? Are you feeling any pain since
the race? No, no, I've, yeah, I've been
really, really surprised with how well my body responded to
the race. No injuries, no niggles, just
just about tiredness, but nothing, you know, nothing out
of order, really. I've recovered very well, but
probably, yeah, we went to swim in the sea on Tuesday afternoon,
so that helps. A bit of cold water on the legs,
that helps with recovery. But yeah, probably get into a
bit of very light jog over the weekend or something like that
and then get back into easy training next week.
I think that's what the coach said so.
He's the boss, you just. Do that's it.
Yeah, yeah. So you went from 27 yards and
this time around you managed 37, so that's great.
What's is 47 the next logical step?
Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's for sure.
It's a huge PB. And I went into the, into the
Islander with like winning. Winning was a very nice thing
because that was my first ever win on the race, you know, so my
first ever trophy. So I was really pleased with
that. But yeah, we that was kind of
like an added bonus as to my, my main goal was to qualify and I
was ready to do whatever it took to qualify, which was either to
run 40 hours to make sure I was high enough on the at large list
or, or win. So, so yes, I was ready to go in
for a battle. And then then yeah, with
Rebecca, who did, media assessed she was already qualified for
the Swiss team after 30 hours. So we decided that it made sense
that we didn't tie ourselves up too much at the Islander and
save the save the proper fight to the October race so.
Yeah, you'll be racing virtually there.
Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, October race, we'll
see what what the next PV is. Hopefully quite a few more than
37. Yeah, well, I'll be there as
well. So we'll both get up my PBS 42.
So you've got to be there at least so.
Yeah. And you.
Yeah, working. Together, we are a team.
Yeah, that's that's going to be interesting.
I think that's going to be a nice little difference then,
because we will be working as a team.
This, it's not like it's going to be, there's not going to be
anyone that you look from the corner of your eye being like, I
hope you're getting tired now. Everyone will be like to
continue, yeah. You want everyone to continue,
so I'll be I'll be good to cheery atmosphere.
I think it'll be interesting. I've been in the Scotland team
five Times Now I think and I think a tactic that we don't use
is we don't work as a team. We all race individually and I
think it's a mistake, so hopefully the UK team will will
work together more so that's. Yeah, hopefully they'll be.
Yeah, It'll be interesting to see.
I've I've not met any other runners on the team I don't
think, so Be welcome. Technically, technicality, it's
only me and you that are in the team at the moment because we've
got silver tickets. Although like John Stalker and
Matt Blackburn, they've got 8788 yards.
Technically somebody could still knock them out.
So we've we've only got, we're the only ones we guarantee
places at the moment. So we're privileged.
We're safe. But yeah, I know, I think we'll
be, we'll be working as a team for that event.
That'll be. I'm very excited for that.
Yeah, for sure. That's all I've been thinking
about for the last six months or so.
That was maybe not six months March.
Yeah, you qualified in March, did you not?
Yeah, so leading up to March it was, it wasn't about that race,
it was how do I get into the UK team?
So, and now, now that I'm in it's, it's all you think about.
Yeah, excellent. So you'll have to you'll have to
discuss strategies together. Yeah, work as a team.
So I'm. Yeah, I think so.
I think that'll be the, that'll be the thing that's yeah, my
coach was saying that it's things that the Belgian team has
done really well in the past is to really work all together as a
team to and that really obviously took them very far.
Yeah, some of the other countries actually, they run
together in training, but you've been in Orkney.
Me being near Aberdeen and probably the majority of the
team being in the South of England, it's a bit difficult.
It's. Not going to work.
So right, getting back to the questions, are you, have you got
any sponsorship? No, I'm not.
I'm not sponsored. No, no, no, not yet.
No, maybe. If if anybody was any company
wishes to give something to either of us, then great.
Absolutely. I'm sure they're all listening
to this. Yeah, I'd appreciate like I
really like Innovate shoes. So get some prepares, that'd be
that'd be lovely. So what kind of you, you said
you're innovate shoes, Is there any other bits of kit that you
particularly like? Not really no.
I tend to go to buy kit that's on no fair.
Yeah, that's the same with me. I noticed you're wearing a
running vest, a backpack type thing for the majority of the
race, if not all of the race at the weekend.
Yeah, I didn't do the first few loops.
I did yeah, without it because I thought I was going to drink
just at the at the break. So I was drinking in a lot of
water and I think I don't, well, I didn't like that strategy for
a start, because I think I was drinking a little bit too much.
And, and also it's just comes down on you too quick then and
you need to stop too often to, to go to the to the side and
pee. So yeah, I, I changed my
strategy and then got the got the vest on and about water in
it. And towards the end as well,
when I was struggling to eat a bit during the the break, I
would take a gel or two of me and have them on the on the on
the loop to supplement what I was eating at the at the camp.
So the rate the the vest is quite quite handy I think.
What? What were you eating at the
camp? To start with, I was eating
like, sandwiches with like, chocolate spread on it or peanut
butter and jam. And then and then, yeah, like
bananas and sweeties and stuff. And then as the race went on, I
found it, yeah. The thought of sandwiches was
not great. So I went into a bit more like
just really sweeties. And I was drinking this mountain
fuel kind of food, liquid food thing.
Yeah. And that that went down really
well. So I was quite pleased with
that, I believe. That Paul is a mountain fuel
man. Yeah, he got me on two.
He got me to pry that because I had tried tailwind a lot of
years ago and I was, I was not convinced by it because I think
in the normal ultra it's hard to manage the hydration well with
the tailwind in it or at the time I struggled with it and
then so I got out of it. But yeah, I found the the
mountain shield stuff really good then.
So I'll probably train and experiment a bit more with it
now. And you're saying sandwiches and
stuff like that, What on a daily basis, what kind of food do you
eat? But just a normal.
Just a normal diet, mostly vegetarian food, just try and
eat well. But also sometimes I just have
like the guilty pleasures of anything really.
I just eat quite a lot I think from normal standards, which is
the case for most ultra runners I think.
Yeah, and someday at the rest of the weekend said to me, how can
you be so skinny if you eat so much?
I was like, well, that's because you run so much as well.
I don't, I don't run. I just run so I can eat more.
That's my yeah, that's. You got to have a reason.
So that's your your why, right? A question that I always get
asked and I can never answer. What do you think about when
you're running? Just a lot of things.
But yeah, I worked with the race across Scotland last year.
I worked with a mental preparation coach, a French guy
who also does a lot of backyard ultra and like crazy long
distance stuff. He's called Christian Modui.
I don't know if you know him. No, I don't know his name.
He was at the bigs last year, he didn't do so well.
I think he had some a little bit physical issues, but yeah, he is
like a mental preparation coach. So we worked a bit on like what
to think about during races. This too.
Two ways to approach it, I says, But it depends.
Like some days you try and sometimes, shall I say, I just
try and think about like something completely different.
Like just be in a different place at different time and be
happy and warm. And sometimes you just like,
focus on the rocks in front of you and listen to the birds and
listen to your breathing and try and think about nothing else.
But yeah, it's it's difficult. So so when your mum told you
that it was only 19° and it was cold, you just told her to think
about being warm and that worked.
And then when they actually arrived at the camp with us,
they often thought it was it was warm enough, so that was good.
I think you're, I think I remember your mum wearing a
jacket most of the time where there's a lot of us were in
T-shirts, so it probably matches up.
Yeah, that's about right. Yeah, that's, I mean it's 35°
where they live in France at the moment, so.
I remember being in Sri Lanka about 20 years ago and we were
there sweating buckets and the locals were wearing ski jackets.
So it's. Just what you're.
Used to. Yeah, that's how we spot
tourists in Albany on a sunny day.
Everyone's in shorts. Apart from the tourists.
They're still wearing woolly hats.
Yeah. So you talked about your
training earlier. Do you do any anything else
other than running? Yeah, for like for fun, I do a
bit of surfing when when conditions allow, mostly in the
winter because that's when we get waves.
But like from a more related running thing, I try and do like
the odd, you know, strength, a little bit of strength training,
but it's once or once, once or twice a week maybe depends with
work schedule if I can fit in or not, Yeah.
Yeah, and a dirty word because I don't do it.
But do you stretch? No, you tell.
Paul, that you do, but you don't.
Yeah, yeah, I tell my I I go really well.
I mean not regularly but at least once every before every
race I go and see her and know still path and then she says
maybe you should stretch. But I only stretch for like when
something starts to hurt a little bit and then you stretch
for like 2 weeks and then the pain goes away and then it's
like Oh well that's enough. I'm in exactly the same position
so. Well, you just forget about
stretching when nothing hurts, you know?
I just don't remember it. So you're doing backyard ultras
at the moment. You've done 3, you've done a
handful of other races. Have you got a preferred?
Are are you a backyarder now or are you still going to mix it
up? I'm still going to mix it up.
I think I'd like, as I said, being in Ogney, I can't do many,
many races in a year. So I think, you know, I'll focus
on backyard ultra for October, obviously, and then decide after
that if I carry on doing backyards or if I, you know, I
probably, I usually choose one main race in a year.
So we'll see what that is. It's just so many different
races, you know, so many options.
It's it's too much fun. Yeah.
And you're, you're concentrating, you're limited
down. Have you got a dream race that
you want to limit it down to? Dream race at the moment, no, I
guess. Well, yeah, I suppose it's a
dream race, but I don't think I'll ever get to it.
Would be Hard Rock 100. That would be quite, quite
impressive. Like what?
A cool race to do. Yeah, it was on last weekend,
was it or was it the same time as Highlander?
Yeah. No, I think it was the weekend.
Before OK and impossible again. Yeah, absolutely.
So that's why it's a dream. Yeah, I think I applied for it
once maybe 10 years ago and probably should have kept on
entering each year. I don't know whether you're do
you get a better chance if you enter more than once?
I think you do. I don't.
I don't know, actually, Yeah. Well, I might have got an invite
now if I kept on trying, but I tried it once and that was it.
Yeah. So, yeah, that would be my dream
race. I, I, I'm trying to avoid
flying. So yeah, that kind of limits
that that also makes it into more of the dream race category.
But one race, how far? Yeah, just for just for
environmental reasons, Yeah. I agree with that.
Good. I don't know how are you getting
to Suffolk? I'll drive.
Yeah, it's, I looked up this afternoon actually, it's going
to be like a 12 hour drive after the ferry.
So it's going to be a bit of a trek.
I've been to Suffolk from where I stay and it's pretty much 500
miles. So I was saying in the I will
drive 500 miles to go and do this race and I will drive 500
miles home. Yeah, that's good.
Yeah. So yeah, this, the logistics to
go down to Suffolk, it's going to be, it's going to be a good
challenge. Interesting.
Yeah, going to be another two day trip before the race even
starts. Yeah.
So leading up to the race or the race that you've just done or
any race in general, do you get nervous?
I was pretty nervous last year before the race across gold and
I think it's different before backyard I I was not too
nervous, partly because it's something I worked on of being
like in a more positive and well, I suppose more confident
mindset about before a race. But I think when you know the
length of the challenge and you're like, oh, that's going to
be a big challenge, it's easier to get scared when you get into
a backyard. You just don't know how long
it's going to last, so you can't really be scared of it.
Yeah. And do you set targets for
backyard? Yeah, I, I did set.
No, well, I mean I had one target which was 40 hours for
the Highlander. I had set some milestones to try
and like break down a little bit the monotony of of the whole
thing. But I actually think like the
1st 24 hours were quite long actually.
Like I called out the warm up and then very quickly, you know,
then people started dropping out.
So that keeps it interesting. And I didn't really need the
milestones to keep me keep me engaged.
But yeah, I think, I think it helps to to have a little, you
know, take boxes to be like, right, that's done, that's done.
So, so if you didn't have the 40 yards probable safe
qualification, do you think he would have set that 40 yards
anyway or would it have been? Would you have set a target?
Well, I don't know. I don't know if I would have
aimed that high to be honest, because yeah, I just remember
when I did the the backyard two years ago in Nogney, I'd said
myself I was going to go 36 and I was nowhere near able to do
36. So I'm going into this.
I was like 40 yards is going to be quite a lot.
But actually once I got into it, the legs felt great all the way
throughout. So that was a good confidence
builder for me. I was worth priced.
Was that you that set the target or was it Paul your coach or, or
was it just the qualification that was?
That's what needed done for the qualification.
So there was no really any other option.
You know, I I signed up for the coach to and I said I want to
qualify for the GB team. So that's what needed done.
So that's where we got done. So, yeah, right.
To to wrap it up, what's next for Thoma?
What's next? Well, yeah.
We we know what's next. Yeah.
The the next will be, I think adapting the training slightly
for the for the surfer event, which I think is going to be a
little bit more flat than what the Highlander was.
Yes, I've done the old Suffolk course because they're changing
it, but compared to Highlander it is flat.
Yeah. So I don't know how do you find
that easier or harder or flat, of course.
It's just different. Russell Bock This year I did 42
and it was, it wasn't flat, but when you compare it to
Highlander, it was flat. And then I did 35 S around about
the same numbers. Yeah.
And then you think about Lionsgate last year, I think it
was 20s, high 20s, I can't remember exact #27 or 29.
And it it was more like what you'd be used to in Orkney.
Wind, coastal, undulating. Yeah, people called it hilly.
I didn't think it was that hilly.
It had hills in it, but some bits were rough.
I loved it so. But again, that's just totally
different than the other races. So I think you just have to be
prepared for what's coming up. Yeah.
So I think that'll be what's next for me is just prepare for
prepare for Suffolk and do do more flat road.
Well, I don't know if it's Rd., but it's more flat running,
yeah. Well the the old Suffolk course
was mostly on Forest Trails Flat, but they've changed the
course now so I I don't even know what it is.
Yeah, well, I'd be surprised by everybody.
There, Yeah. So, but anyway, thank you for
your time today. Thank you very much for having
me. Congratulations on being the
Scottish Backyard Ultra Champion taking my title away.
Yeah, I'm, I'm happy with that. Did I take your course record
too? No, it was Andrew Jackson the
year before me, so I didn't have the course record he had.
I think it was 39. His course record was.
Oh well. But something, yeah, something
for next year. Technically you've got the
course record because it's on a different course.
So all right, OK. You can have that one.
Thanks very much for having me. It's been really good and
looking forward to seeing you in October then.
Yeah. And so thank you and thank
everybody for listening. Goodbye.
Goodbye everybody.