Hello and welcome to the next episode of Run Till You're Done.
Tonight's guest as he's held the record and pass for being
Scottish Half marathon champion. So it's safe to say the guy's
pretty rapid and he has also won Inverclyde Sports Personality of
the Year. Thank you for coming on, John
Bell. You know, thanks for having me.
The first question that we like to ask all of our guests is how
did you get into running? It's a strange.
When I started, obviously quite late, probably kind of early in
mid 20s was when I started. I've done a little bit in school
and things just through kind of the normal stuff you do through
PE and etcetera and cross country level.
Then I never ran for maybe a decade or so.
Then actually I'd done a marathon for Help for Heroes
when I had left the military, and through that a few friends I
worked with heard about it. Then they started getting me to
run home with them from work, and then I kind of started doing
the part run. Then it just kind of started
from there. The spiral out of control.
As it does with most of us. You say you were in the
military. Did you do any exercise?
Obviously in the military you would have been doing that, but
you do any running? Yeah, yeah.
So it's phase one for me. I was 16 and then at Winchester,
so we did six months soldier training.
So there are a lot of fizz there and you're doing sometimes the
first sessions are there. And through that I've done quite
well. I was the first Soldier.
I get that award that they passed out, played in front of
about 3000 parents and a few other things for winning kind of
March and shoot tournaments and stuff.
So always been probably naturally fixed.
Not a nice one, but yeah, we'll naturally keep fit.
And winning that award in the middle of trade, were you quite
competitive amongst your squaddies?
Yeah, you always are. You see, you're young, just 1012
movies in a room. You just want to be better than
the other. What kind of masculine energy,
if you will? Most of the time is fear.
When you do your kind of nine and a half and things like that
for your PFPS, it's more just the cop was shouting at you're
running out of fear more than anything.
But yeah, and I've always been super competitive, so it's nice
to try and win everything you can for me.
And what was your first actual race that you got into?
If you don't include kind of park running, things like that,
it would have been the great Scottish 1/2 marathon.
I'm not even sure what that would have been, but my my wife
and her mum were running it and they signed me up.
So I jumped in with them and they I would say the pink wave,
whatever the back wave was at the time.
So that would be my first kind of proper road race.
You say you're doing you've done parked on.
Do you do that often? No, it's not as much I get down
actually we clean not as much do it.
I would just get down and cheer people on and when people and
help friends every things like that.
It's it's yeah, maybe my sessions are I'm going to choose
this Friday if my big session. So I never, I maybe run it hard
once a year. I've been quite lucky in my last
two hard ones last year and the year before.
They get the quickest in Britain that week for both of them.
But I don't do. I don't race often though.
So quickest in Britain? What kind of time are we talking
about there? I think my quickest, the
Greenock one was 1430 flat for the Greenock partner, yeah.
I can't even get halfway at that.
That's amazing. Do you have you done many park
runs? Did you do have you done the
tourism thing? I've stayed pretty.
Local, mostly local. I've done a few if if I'm
travelling and there's one nearby, I'll I'll do them within
so many Perth and things like that.
But yeah, if for someone there's a partner nearby, I'll do it.
But I wouldn't travel for it just to be my training days are
they're quite, they're quite certain, quite rigid with my
stuff. And what does your training
schedule look like? Do you want me to give you a
kind of rough week? Is that OK?
What would be an average for you?
Typically quite brief of it would be Monday is 2 easy runs
so run in the morning run in the the afternoon, then I work back
shifts. Tuesday I'm normally at the
track in the mornings then in the evening I'll do either a
threshold run depending what I did in the track or I'll do hill
reps Then after that I'll go to the gym and do weights on a
Tuesday. Wednesday tour easier runs.
Thursday tour easier runs. Friday again double session
usually Rd. session kind of 24K volume total about 15 K
threshold ish. Saturdays making a day off I'll
do 1215K easy. Then Sunday long run which I
tend to run probably faster than most with a quite like a fast
long run. So I'm probably kind of three
3350 a kilometre from a 15 plus miles every Sunday.
What kind of miles or kilometers is that add up to for a a
typical week? So I kind of normal not in
blocks or anything, not massive probably 130 ish K for normal
out of season blocks and more. If a man can a half and still
marathon blocks a bit higher, you have 130 ish K probably.
And do you follow the average structure of like you would do
your three-week build like over the three weeks and then have a
recovery week? Kind of marathon wise, yeah, If
I'm doing a marathon, I would do three up, one down.
I think that's important purely just because the, the mental
side is really, really hard. So I think the, the week down is
the only thing that gets you through the three weeks up is to
be honest. But my, even my down week, it
wouldn't be that down. I'd still probably be if it was
marathon training, 120 or so K for my down week, but yeah.
But normal training, 10K half math and not really.
Maybe just ease off the double sessions a little bit, but I
wouldn't really drop very much, no.
Do you target like you're saying you do a block?
Do you target a race at the end or do you do like races during
your block as training? Yeah, so my kind of target just
now depending on what happens with the wife is frayed the
nights it's got 10,000 meters on the track.
So we cannot aim in for that a little bit.
But I've done a few 10 mile races leading into it.
But again, just not taping them down, just treating them as a
most a threshold session straight through.
But yeah, if I'm if I'm doing a 12/14 meet blog, I'll probably
race at least twice during that just because a bonus I enjoyed
racing. So it's too long not to race.
You, you, you said depending what's happened with your wife,
who what we haven't said so far is you're about to start a a
different kind of race and your wife is due anytime and by
anytime I mean today, so. It's due today, it's a due date
and we've been doing amazing. So she was even, she was at a
gym today doing weights and things.
So she's doing excellent. Is that to induce labour?
Hopefully. Yeah, I think she's a bit
addicted to training. I think part of living with me.
Yeah, just I think she's feeling better when she's moving.
Instead, they're sitting about. And is your wife into is it
fitness in general or is she a runner also?
Doesn't run as much as I would love everyone.
Yeah, no, she's probably more kind of gym in classes, but she
does run. She's run some quick times, kind
of 45 minute time, K, probably our best.
She's not yet at the same time. I've got to kind of devote to
it. She's a busy job, so like 45
minutes and about 145 half marathon.
I think she's running Glasgow. Yeah, that's definitely, or
rather, yeah. We've got some cool times, yeah.
And you say hopefully you can run this 10,000 metres.
What's your current PB for that at the moment?
On the track, I've only done 2 in my life.
Actually on the track it's, oh, thirty.
I think it's 3002, I'm on the track so hopefully quite gonna
fight the night if they I'm allowed in the weather holds.
You said that you obviously did a lot of physio and physio
physical activity in the military and what what is it
your job is now? So I work with a leisure company
and with a leisure and I'm there lead trainer for the company.
So I was a personal trainer in Glasgow.
Then I started running a bit more and I come back down to
where I think you look. So I now work with, we've got
about 7 gyms. It's a huge kind of big company.
So I deal with this, the premium sites, if you will, teach a lot
of classes and effectively upscale the staff and run some
CPDS and things like that for them just to try and deliver as
best for service we can. Yeah, I teach a lot of cycling
classes, running classes and that as well.
So do you count that as are you doing exercise doing that or is
that part of your cross training or?
It depends where I'm if I'm injured I don't want to bite my
cycling classes and if I'm not I won't.
Kind of. It depends what my training is
looking like. And when you're training, when
it's the winter season, do you ever partake in cross country?
Yeah, yeah. If it wasn't for that club, I
wouldn't. It's awful.
But yeah, no, I do enjoy some of them.
There's not as much as there were.
The county champs of Olken had disappeared for us now the
Renfrews, but the districts and they, they come on all the short
course relays. I enjoy that.
It's one of the most painful 4 kilometres on Earth.
What club is it you run for? Invoklid Athletics.
So you say that you don't enjoy the cross country so much, What
race would you say is your favorite to partake him?
So can I spare any race? Yeah.
Yeah, anything you want. Probably Glasgow, a great
Scottish run, just because I've got a lot of memories there and
I've run it tons of times. So yeah, probably, probably
Glasgow. And I'm guessing with the times
that you run, you're at the very front pen.
Not as far front as I would love, but yeah, my first one in
Glasgow is but 146, something like that and my best finish is
fifth up there. So.
So you have been top five in Hangman, top six last three
years, something like that. I'd love to win it.
And for a race like that, do you take any gels or anything?
So for half marathons, no, actually I wouldn't take
anything. I wouldn't take water unless
it's really hot. Same for training.
If I'm doing training runs up to 20 miles I probably wouldn't
take anything. Unless I was in a marathon block
and try train my stomach to use the gels or use carb fluids or
whatever I was taking, I wouldn't take anything at all on
board. As just your standard, whatever
brand of gel or is there any particular thing that you would
take? I mean if gel wise I would take
the what I say it's SAS and high 5.
The Aqua gels not got as much carbs as some of them, but I
find it a little bit easier to take.
So a lot of them are quite thick and you the gel underwater at
the same time. Whereas with the can Aqua gels
you can just almost get a drink with the gel.
You know, for me anyway, they sit a little bit better.
My stomach I've tried loads and stomach's not great with gels.
Yeah, the Aqua gels are about 22g per sachet.
I I always find that they're really watery because but it
means you don't have to take water with it.
Yeah, no, they're not good. For the shorter races, do you
tend to like cab load before the events?
Like have a big dinner the night before or like a porridge or
something like that before you do go out and run?
Or do you run fasted? No I wouldn't run fasted if it
was an early race. I just got up.
I try and eat 3 hours before it then nothing.
I used to be a little bit closer.
I used to eat maybe 2 hours then have a wee snack lead into it.
And just because you're always starving.
But no, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't do anything fasted
unless it was easy runs in the morning.
I would always just go up. It was early to then go back to
bed if I can and just lie down for a bit.
Do you take like if you were racing 1/2 marathon, would you
take a gel before it? Would you take caffeine or
anything like that? One coffee.
I would take one coffee and nothing.
Nothing else before it. No gel.
It was just my normal breakfast then.
Yeah. And no water typically unless it
was a a warm day. If you don't, especially if
you're in a pack and you get through a water station and no
one takes the water, you can't take one either.
That's the real. One, Is that a military thing?
I'm not sure, but I don't even know if that's a real thing.
That's where my head is, because if I'm not taking the water, I
don't need the water, even if I'm absolutely dying.
I'm not. I'm better than them.
And when you've finished your events and races, do you have a
post celebratory go to meal or? Drink probably.
Meal probably. Just probably got pizza if it
depends and if it didn't go very well, I don't have no end.
So but yeah, probably a a pizza or if again, after Glasgow, a
group obvious, maybe 10-15. Obviously go at Dimaggio's and
give you pizza, pasta be lastly and set as a group of things.
So yeah, probably pizza. Nice.
And what what flavour? If I'm up there, probably a
spicy chicken. If I'm down at home, probably a
pepperoni. And timing of the races, you're
saying you get up, you have your breakfast.
That's assuming the race is in the morning.
What about if the race was an evening race?
I think yeah, that make a yeah it.
Makes you off. Yeah, it's it's so the racing
Friday. I've not the schedule's not
going out till tomorrow, but it's it's normally about half
eight, 9:00 at night we go, which is really tough and afraid
tonight and we have sleeping within.
So yeah, that's that's tough. So we probably have normal
breakfast then you said they're having a, a kind of tea or a
main meal. Just have a a big lunch, then
almost just snacks through the day and then just hope that it's
enough. And you say you're half sleeping
for the evening ones. That probably answered my next
question that's just came to mind.
Do you prefer morning, afternoon or evening races?
Probably I'm I'm an 11:00 guide so that's my perfect time.
Means you need to race at 11. There's not many at that time
though they're usually morning or if I does anybody across
country know that's probably to have to facing them in which
again is quite tough because it's a Big Breakfast, small
lunch. Yeah, mid kind of mid morning.
It's probably my preferred time. How much sleep do you get?
None. I'm a, I'm a terrible sleeper.
Yeah, maybe. I don't know, like if I get four
or five hours some nights, it's probably one thing, my training
that's an issue. It's the one thing I struggle
with and I don't imagine a child come along is going to make it
much better. I.
Was going to say you're just practising for being a parent,
but what I've said is the when I became a parent, it was sleep
deprivation. That that's training you for a
race where you're obviously not running all night because you're
finished in 60 minutes, but it's it's training for being tired.
Yeah, and I'm looking forward to it.
But yeah, no sleep is definitely my my, kind of my weakness, I'd
say. Have you done anything beyond a
marathon? Have you done an ultra marathon?
So in training, yeah, I've done loads, I've done some investing.
BBL A's, I've crewed on a veseland way.
My, my. That's probably where I'm going
to go, to be honest. Straight to ultras.
When I started it was with ultra runners I started running with.
I've never really had any intentions of running Rd. races.
I wasn't really that interested in times or anything.
It was just kind of seeing how far I can go before my body
disintegrates. Then I, I said on a part running
my first part room was like 1720 or something like that.
So then I get kind of roped into clubs and a bit more Roadrunner.
But yeah, Ultras is definitely where I'm I'm going to end up.
Yeah, good as what we want to hear because both of us are all
for runners. So have you got any names that
you're wanting to drop of who who you were out running with?
Initially it was a cooked 1, so we got good runners as well.
When I first started they got me running.
Then Jude Bolton was my initial coach, well a social worker at
team probably. So he took me on and again I
could have and things like that. But yeah, I've been on my, I've
been on mowing running way since Mark Politrow, who's now moved.
He's about Scotch athletics. He's the head of endurance now.
But for the last five, 4-5 years, I've just been on mowing,
coaching on mowing and the train on mowing.
That's David Tambarini. Sorry.
Better shoot. David.
He's with me on my hard days. Segue's in front of me.
Take the brunt of the wind from where we live.
Out of all the things that you've won, raced, not
necessarily even won, as I just said, what is your biggest
running achievement? And it might have been, you said
you came fifth in Glasgow, that that's quite an achievement.
What would it be for you? Probably.
Probably Inverness 20 years ago, 2025 last year, Inverness last
year, the half marathon that was, I kind of shocked him.
That was I went up, I was maybe seeded 7th or something like 2
minutes behind the, the front four or five guys.
I had only just broke six to seven minutes once.
So yeah, came away with the one up there and get the Scottish
title was a a massive surprise and it was a war.
It was like right down to the line, it was, it was painful.
And how did you find the course? Yeah, it was tough.
Yeah. It's quite a hilly course for a
fast time anyway, even though the times there was quick every
year. I think it's just the guys at
the front, you know, as it's, it's helly.
But we went out relatively slow for what I thought.
I thought we were going to kind of Sprint off the line, but I
think the first 5K was only about 1540 or something like
that. Then it just kind of got quicker
and quicker. I think like 10 to 15 K, maybe
15-10, then just getting faster and faster and faster.
Then me and Sean Chalmers kind of Sprint in the last kilometer,
which was just awful. And do you have do you wear a
watch? So not always actually, I
typically don't race with a watch.
I know it's about. So sometimes if you see my
results, it's been amazing and sometimes it's been awful.
I'm very rarely in between. I'm a big believer in just just
going for it sometimes. But one of my favourite quotes I
could quote is Everything is Steve P Fontaine.
It's the best pace of suicide pace and today's a good day to
die. That's that's kind of how I run.
Because that's the reason I ask that is because when you're
running these races and you realise like how fast you're
going when you set off in the first mile or so, the ever go
look at the watch and go, Oh no, I've run too fast in the first
bit. Or do you just, you know, do you
just roll with it? Not all the time, yeah.
Always just look at it and think, Oh my God, what am I
doing? I think I did example that would
be Edinburgh. Edinburgh last year, maybe the
half marathon I had, I had won quite a few things and I was
trying to get there. My second Scotland selection and
I spoke to Scotch Athletics and this is I had to do a half
because I missed the championships.
So I signed up to Edinburgh and I was asking what I need to want
to qualify and I just got a message back.
It just seems fast. That's great.
So I signed up to Edinburgh. I had just done 310 keys so I
was just racing like mad when we on the way down last minute.
It's quite downhill at the start and I would have watched for
that because I was trying to run a good time and I was through
the 1st decay in like about 8:45 of the half marathon.
Then it was the longest kind of 18 kilometers of my life.
But yeah, I I go out to quit quite a lot.
That's one of the main. Go out quick and hang on that's.
Yeah, it's if you want a time, it's not the best way of doing
it, but if you're, if you're there and you know you're going
to be running with the lead pack and you want to give it a bash,
I, I really don't think a watch helps.
But it never tells you anything positive.
You're either going to look down, it's telling you you're
going slower than you want to be going.
So then it kind of mentally plays with you in a negative
way. Or as you said, you look down,
you're going too quick and you panic.
So I don't really think it ever tells you anything good.
I guess you're thinking, am I going as fast as I need to go or
as fast as my body will let me go right now?
And that's all you need to know. Yeah, just learning to run the
course. I think people can get sucked
in, especially if you're looking at if you have live pace on, you
know, averages and stuff. If you're trying to run 330 a
kilometre and you're running up a big hill, when you look at
your watch and you see 4 minutes, you start to panic.
You're not really taking into account that you're running a
big hill. And so, yeah, I think learning
to run the courses helps a little bit as well.
But you know, I don't love a watch.
I train with them obviously, but I don't race with them much.
I guess the only thing you could do would be put it on the heart
rate. So he's just perceived effort
versus actual effort is do I feel like I'm going a certain
pace? My, my heart rate says I am.
But then I guess when you're doing a race, your heart rate's
all over the place anyway because you're excited so.
Yeah, all right. Heart, heart rate for me, if I'm
on a treadmill, I run by heart rate sometimes again if I don't
know if I'm doing like Friday the 2 by 5 kilometres on a
treadmill. And I think on the second one my
heart rate was it was shown quite high.
It was at 190 and it was so I just took my watch off and put
it down. So I didn't want to see it.
That's good advice, actually. Yeah, if I kind of see it, I
don't know. So.
If it's not telling you what you need to know or what you want to
know, if it's not saying you're doing awesome, then why bother?
And when you run these really, really fast times and, you know,
you podium and you come fast and that, do you ever get the
struggling with the stairs the next day?
Or is your body just so conditioned now that it just
doesn't happen? Sometimes, yeah, Depends on the
course. If it's a really tough course,
probably more so. If there's a lot of downhill, it
can erect your quads. Stairs, not so much, but yeah,
sometimes I'm just a bit achy, but I'll run.
Typically after the race I'll come home and go and run again.
I'll do a 5K after that just to flush your legs out so that,
that, that does help when I've just got on the bike.
I've got a turbo next to him in my living room, which my wife is
raging about. Yeah.
Not child friendly. It's not but I was hoping I was
going to have a gym. We'd done the house up and I
thought it was going to be gym but we get pregnant right away
so it's not a nursing and I've lost my gym.
I don't know, maybe the noise of it will settle the child.
I kept saying you need to speak to Nicola for me.
So the next question I know I'll say is, and it can be quite a
philosophical one, why do you run?
Yeah, I could take away the answer it'll.
Take as long as you need. Yeah, the answer to that's
probably, I suppose changed through the years of running.
For me, I first came to running. It's almost the way it kind of
saved my sanity a little bit. Just go through some tough times
and it was an outlet. Then obviously you start
progressing in this sport, then the the running becomes the
biggest stress in your life as opposed to the stress you leave.
For me, but I've got a lot of, it's probably not healthy, but a
lot of self loss tied up and running a lot of value.
I put myself through running and it's just kind of became who I
am. So it's, and I'm also too far.
I know I've run too many 1000 miles to stop.
So I've kind of, I'm kind of all in.
I've not got a choice at this point.
But you know, it makes me a better person.
It's been, it's made me better. It's improved every aspect of my
life. It's probably an investment as
well with the money you've more than likely spent on it as well.
It's issues are getting deer and deer so they're.
No half. What should we do?
Sorry, Mike. No, it's the way you ask.
Exactly the same thing. So training wise for daily
running are typically run in Clifton's or Rincon's Hawker for
my all my easy volume race wise, the adios prothees is what I was
racing and I was Nike a little bit.
I prefer Nike for the the kind of 10K render, but I think the
the idealist just suit the way I run a little bit better.
Spike wise are where the ON spikes actually the cloud
spikes. So a little bit of everything.
Are the pro threes carbon? Yeah, they've got carbon plates
and they've got 5 carbon rods that mimic toes.
They've got everything you can use to cheat possible.
What Nikes do you run them for your 10K?
What what? What's the word I'm looking for
and? What version of?
What version that? Thank you.
It would be the vapor flies, not the new ones.
Is it either of the twos or the threes?
I'm not sure what they are, but I've, I've always found them
super, super narrow and they kind of wrecked my Achilles a
little bit. Yeah.
I think they're quite narrow as they did this and probably a
little bit more aggressive of a sure, but I think they form a
little bit softer. So it's not as aggravating on
your calves and things. And while you're obviously
you're running as fast as you can go, what do you think about
during that? Depends what point you're
racing. And sometimes I just want to
stop. Yeah.
You know, if it's training and things like that, if I'm doing
big sessions, obviously as I track this moment, a lot of the
time it's kind of visualizing upcoming events, thinking about
where you want to be, thinking about the course if you're
struggling, thinking about how you're going to feel the X point
of a race. So I think about that a lot.
Or if it's it's maybe someone I'm trying to race with, I'll
imagine that in front of me and I just, I'm trying to catch them
all the time. But race wise, yeah, trying to
keep as clear ahead as possible. To be honest.
You want to be as relaxed as you can for probably 80% of the
race, switching the brain off as much as you can until you really
have to start racing. So ideally the answer to that
would be nothing. But that's not, that's not
always true. You're always just thinking,
that's just too quick. I'm going to die.
And do you have a mental strategy of when you are trying
to chase the leader or if you are being chased?
Yeah, I'm, I'm not even sure I'm better actually.
But yeah, if I'm chasing someone, it's always the, the
first thing I would do is try and settle into their cadence
rhythm. You know, it sounds a little bit
strange. If I can see their cadence is a
little bit higher than mine, I'm almost always not going to catch
them. So I try and slot into their
cadence and then just try and slowly that will bring that tape
back in. If you're that kind of elastic
bandit inevitably snaps. I'm quite good at coming back
from falling off. I don't really mind that.
Sometimes I I prefer to drop off a group and just run moan so you
can control your pace a little bit more.
Being chest is a little bit different.
That's almost just running in pure fear and all you can think
to yourself is don't look over your shoulder because the noise
you're tired. And if you look over your
shoulder. I always find paranoia being
chased as the the biggest motivator that there is.
Yeah, no, definitely just hearing even sometimes I'm still
at the races, especially in Scotland job, it's lapse or
something. So you're you're passing other
people who are maybe on a lap behind you level, but you can
start with your footsteps. So then you just start imagining
that second place, I thought whoever is catching up with you.
So it gives you a little edge to keep pushing.
So you're trying to try to run to the point you can't hear
footsteps. It gives them a goal.
So it once you get into ultras, they'll be, can I hear that gate
closing 100 meters behind me something?
Because they're you don't hear the few steps much because
they're off road. So yeah, I know.
It's. Good.
While you're you're running a race, you're thinking, I just
want to stop, I just want to stop.
It's hurting. How do you get around that?
Have you got a mantra to yourself?
What do you tell yourself? There were probably a few things
I thought, I sound completely mental, a few little things I
say sometimes I believe I can take a lot of pain.
I think that's why I got good at running so late and so quick.
I don't know, for my background and my life and having kind of
trauma in the past, it's quite common.
Me, I thought, I thought these were elite athletes, but elite
athletes. So I believe that stuff that
I've been through has served the purpose and it's almost a gift
to be able to take the pain of that.
But yeah, so sometimes I just repeat to myself, I am pain.
Race it or a few other ones. Steven, again, Steven Cook who
got me running message years ago, he said to me when you
start to feel pain, his advice was always don't fight it.
It's inevitable. So let the pain in, absorb it,
then let it go. You know it's going to come.
You can't avoid it during the race.
If you're trying to run a quick time or win a race, you have to
be in pain. And all this, too, shall pass.
I think Justin Blueman felt quite a nice mantra.
I can't remember exactly what it is.
He lost the race last year, the triathlete.
And his mantra was something along the wings of the pain
you're feeling. Those are not as bad as losing.
Almost. Yeah, losing is worse.
Yeah. Do you feel the military helped
you with that? I think the military think it
gave me discipline that I didn't have.
It gave me structure, and yet it forced you not to quit again.
There's a couple of other rephrases of what can I put your
hand in a fire and keep it there?
And it teaches you the heart quite well and to enjoy it, you
start to kind of enjoy that pain.
A lot of way I run, I used to feel that I don't particularly
enjoy the easy meals. I really enjoy the hard sessions
to where you're, I don't know, on your knees, the 108 heart
rate, throwing up, doing whatever you need to do.
That's kind of why I'm running. In fact, if I'm not getting that
I'm, I'm not enjoying it. And you mentioned that you'd
like to dip your toe into the ultra pool fairly soonish.
Do you have any dream races or bucket list races of any
discipline that you'd like to do?
Yeah. Are you a TMB?
Not even 100%. Yeah, that's my.
I will run that and I will run well the.
Full one. Yeah.
I mean, see me and my wife hiked the the two of the Mont Blanc
last year or two years ago. So we went and we had just
self-guided hiked that and it was unbelievable.
Yeah, it was probably the best trip of our life.
And so he plans to think you'll be in back.
I'll carry the begin around it in about a year or so, then go
back and race it. I did it back in 2014 and
fantastic race. The thing I found was you can't
train for it in Scotland. There's just like you can run up
to the top of Ben Nevis and then you're on the quarter way.
Up the hill, yeah, yeah, I know. I need to move it to Shamani for
a bit. I'm sure I could manage
sacrifices, you know that that's it was, to be honest, it was
probably the best sent way. It's been the dream winner that
says until we've done that hike, I won't do the best sent way
just because. But yeah, I don't think it's
even close to the the TMB for me.
And is there? This might be a a depressing
question, or it could be a enlightening question.
Is there anybody that you would like to run with either a live,
not fictional, not I'm. Not sure it would be depressing.
It doesn't need to be depressing.
It can be like your wife. If you want to run GTMB with
your wife, that is the perfect answer.
She needs to get training then. Yeah.
I mean, no, we'd actually sidetrack that we plan a fast
packet before we before our race it at least we will go in fast
packet as well just so we can do as many times as possible.
The athlete, current athlete, I would say alive wouldn't even be
a runner. It's a toss up for me between
Kelly and John there and Lane. Los Andos the triathlete.
It's probably probably Lane though for me.
And you mentioned that you've got hopefully, if you can run it
10,000 meters on Friday. Have you got any other races
lined up for the rest of the year?
Yeah, loads actually. It's stressful.
Yeah, I've got, I've got, I've got it's most of the 10 kids
actually just now because it's a little bit easier to manage if
I'm going to have a newborn. They said they're trying to run
1,000,000 miles. So 10,005, if I if I make it
then I'll be at the the West Districts, the Glasgow Babcock
that's got a really good feel this year.
I think there's maybe 3 or 4 guys run 28 minutes.
So it's going to be a quick race.
So that'll be the next one. I think that's in three weeks to
three weeks maybe. Then it'll be on to the Brian
Goodwin. Then come on, look for the
Scottish Champs road, 10 kilometres.
Then hopefully after that Glasgow again, probably Glasgow
half if not a marathon if things go well.
We've got a good sleeper, potentially a marathon at the
end of the year. I keep everything crossed for
you. You have got a good sleeper then
if you go a marathon in mind towards the tail end of the
year. I've not even thought about it
to be honest. My plan was, you know, to derail
that again, same as a lot of the boys was trying when they call
me of standard for the marathon saying his previous one was
about two, 1512. So the aim is to make a good
crack at that. But then obviously they've
they've pulled the marathon from the Commonwealth Games.
So that kind of discovered my plans a little bit.
So yeah, I'm not even sure marathon wise what to do.
It's one of the ones I want to run a quick one.
But again, it's it's a lot of work and a lot of training, a
lot of satellites. They potentially qualify for
nothing. There's not really any marathon
races for Scotland or Britain you can race or get selected for
just now. And I'm not going to run the
world standard. The standards for the world just
never ridiculous. So yeah, I'm not sure marathon
wise I'd like so my thank you time out.
Then it might be straight to ultras.
And have have you got an idea of you're obviously fast, but like
the West Highland way is the race that you mentioned what
what kind of time would be been for?
Whatever the course record, there's somewhere a bit there.
Where's a bit eleven of those 12 or something?
3042. So under 15 then start the.
So the course record holder needs to watch you're coming for
them. Rob I I was the support for Rob
when he set the record, so I was by another record.
I hope you didn't help me then. Yeah, I know.
Let me see. This is the one is.
I would go out quick and die. You die.
I'll get to the finish line no more.
I watched it, so maybe 15. I was maybe 20 but I would try
for a quick time. And before, well, Friday night,
you've got a big race coming up. If you, if you, you're allowed
to be there, depending on what happens with your wife.
Do you get nervous before it? Yeah, not, not not all races,
big ones, yeah. So last week I raced the
Scottish, this last week Scottish District 10 male.
Some races like that. Not so much to go honest with
you anymore, but yeah, when's like Friday?
I think it's what's because it's on the track 25 laps, the track
feels about 25 miles and I don't know why, but the the lapse of
the track are just brutal. So yeah, I've been nervous
before Friday. Plus when it's an evening ratio
I've got all day sitting think about it and overthink it and,
and also waiting for there'll be Pacers and things like that.
So I'm waiting to see what pace the what time the pesos are
beginning at. And quite often it's, for myself
anyway, it's 2 pesos and it's always one too quick and one too
slow, so you end up stuck in kind of no man's land with the
choice of their just go with the pace and just hope for the best.
So yeah, I've been nervous before Friday.
And injuries? Have you had any major injuries?
Yeah, but the the start of my career, if you want to cover
that, yeah, because I went from basically not running for 10
years to running 7 miles a week overnight, then yeah, you just
spend forever injured. So Achilles calves, everything
recently my, my last race with Scotland was August last year in
Antrim. And so I think that we can a
minor turn of my hamstring there.
Then I just, I struggled from August right through actually
they're just going to get back in a decent shape for February.
I raced the county five mile. So I managed to win somehow then
wrecked my quad doing that. So I've only probably had about
7 weeks ago training just now and it's been probably the
hardest 8 months of running I've had.
Between the injuries I've been running maybe only 100
kilometers a week in cycling and jamming a lot.
How do you recover from you said that you?
Nikki asked about your quads. What?
What would you do to recover after a big race when you're
when you're hurting? If I'm injured, hurting you
mean? Well, no, just DOMS sort of
thing, or just general running fatigue.
Yeah, just keep running, running a little bit, get a dog, a big
walk. Try not, especially if you
disaster it. Feel up plenty, hydrate plenty.
I think if you're not drinking enough after anything over a 10K
you'll really be suffering muscle wiper cramps and things.
So plenty of fluids after that big plenty of walking.
My wife walks up mad so I'll get dragged all the time anyway.
And you mentioned pizza before and you're saying fuel up
afterwards. What would be do you follow any
particular diet? What would be your normal diet
during the day? I'm not on anything specific.
I would and it will probably change depending on my day.
So again, Monday when I'm doing 2 easy runs, I wouldn't eat as
much fuel if you will, but then leave me.
I can choose to leave me a Friday, but I'm maybe it's going
to be doing 30 plus kilometers over the day.
Then I probably have 1000 plus calories extra and try and get
again more protein in that day. But I'm not super, super picky.
I'm sitting here with some food. Next time I've got to be sodium
bars and that next to me just I love a sodium and I don't eat a
lot of meat actually. So I take a lot of kind of
protein shakes, protein bars and that kind of stuff.
I'm not a not vegetarian but I just don't love meat.
And last question from me is, do you have a preferred race
distance? I would, I would have said half
marathon, but I've I've had a lot of success at 10K.
Well, I don't know, 10K on the road just now anyway. 10K on the
road. Is.
Is there a reason for that or is it just?
Not sure, it's kind of, it's kind of the sweet spot.
It's still really, really long, maybe a kind of mental grind,
but short enough that you can just almost Sprint it.
So it's in that kind of middle grind. 5 KS.
I don't love A5 cats. I don't like travelling for 5K.
So a long way to go run for a few minutes.
It's not ten gigs worth it. But yeah, I'm I'm not sure I do
like 1/2 again, especially up in Scotland.
A lot of the time you end up on your own and you're just running
every race so low and it's a bit, yeah, it's tough.
It's a bit soul destroying sometimes.
Somebody said to me that you should only do races, that your
travel time is less than your race time, but if you're running
so fast then you can't go very far.
You get to Glasgow but that's about it.
I know that's that's the thing with the cross company season
because they're 4 kilometres and for us, a lot of them they're
away and they're in the Scotland and you're going to run for
11-12 minutes and it's always crap where that's a long way to
go. I I said it was the last
question, but I just thought about another one.
You said Friday's race is 25 laps of the course.
How do you keep counting? Well it's a it's a track race,
the Scottish 10,000. So there is, there's a weak
track marker. I really wish there wasn't to be
honest. I think they should just have
nothing until about 10 laps to go, then show you a 10 lap
countdown. I don't think there's a need to
have 25 years to start. We'll get 25 laps to go.
But yeah, probably just switch off anyway.
I would just lose count and it told me to ring the bell.
But it's yeah, it's only 400 meters of lap obviously, but 25
laps. So that's, I don't know why, but
it just is a long way. Do you lap people?
No, not in the race that that. The races will start at maybe 5
or 6 at night in the work the way through till the the kind of
Scottish champs a race. So there's not that many
obvious. There's maybe only 1015 in the
race. So unless someone's having a
really kind of crumbled a little bit, but I mean the slowest guy
is maybe running, I don't know, 31 minutes, something like that
is the kind of back guy of our race.
So it's yeah, it's unlikely to lap someone.
I guess there's somebody's having that bad a race, they're
probably going to drop out anyway.
Joseph it isn't someone that came and watched it.
The last time I ran it was a may say 20 or we started.
You're probably talking about 50% walked off the course again
because you can obviously see a pace every 200 meters.
And if I'm trying to run 30 minutes, which is 36 seconds, we
have two or 72 per 400, four, 48 per mile, 3 minutes per
kilometer. And you know pretty early on if
you're if you're going to make it or not.
And a lot of people get 3 kilometers and they're a bit off
pace, they're dying and they just walk off.
It's just super common. It's more common and the air
race is probably than as any other race because most people
just want to finish. But a lot of the guys, if
they're after a time, it's not their day, they just call it
quits. I can understand they're they
need to be ready to race again in a couple of weeks.
So they need to what? What's point in putting in
effort if you're not going to reap the rewards?
Yeah, that's what I'm I've finished everything.
I would just, I would crawl if I had to.
So you see some terrible times for me.
So I've just finished in a state.
I've only ever DNF D once out of 62 ultras, so I I like your
spirit. Yeah, I you mean you shoot me, I
think. I've just thought of another
question as well. Before we sign off, you say
about a 25 lap track. Would you not consider doing the
24 hour track race? I've seen quite a few of that
and actually when I first started running and I'm going to
book his name, but I've done a little bit with kind of Marco
Kinsane. Yeah, in Derby.
So the guy took me on. Jude was friends with them, so
this is maybe 6-7 years ago. So I used to get him running the
Kilpatricks and all that with a group of them.
So yeah, I know he used to do a lot of that and he'd be changing
direction every four hours or whatever it is.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure.
Again, the guy's on the bike with me.
He takes my videos and stuff like that for my Instagram.
David, he's done quite a lot of ultras.
He's been done and done maybe 50 KS on the track on his own that
he's done 100 kilometers on a 2 mile loop over by just where we
stay. But 24 hours on the track, I
don't know. So that's a lot not.
Yet. Not yet.
There's a British fest up for grabs or something like that, or
something big to win maybe. But yeah, it's you need a good
Spotify playlist for that, I think.
I know that Marco and Debbie know about the British best, so
they'll keep you right? Yeah, no, it's I prefer to do
the kind of payer 50K start with that one a little bit.
I've done some training runs for that.
I'd love to go and smash one of them out.
I like the idea of. That's why that kilometre looks
something like that, maybe a little bit longer.
Something like that. Yeah, I.
Prefer that so it's about 400 meters.
Well, we will see your name on the start list soon for an ultra
and many other shorter races, I'm sure.
From me, it's goodbye. Thank you Nikki for being Nikki.
Thank you, John for joining us. Thanks for coming on, John.
No, it's been a pleasure. Thank you all.
Right, see you.