Welcome back to another episode of run till you've done
tonight's guest. I've known for about 18 or still
years. We, we both ran our first ultra
together and since then I, I counted 14 times we've been on
the same finish line, not start line.
So God knows how many others training runs, etcetera.
A lot of the questions tonight I got, I deliberately stood back
and let Nikki ask them because it's how we get to know people
almost. So somebody who I know is Sandra
McDougal. But now Sandra B, welcome to the
show. Thank.
You. I'm honoured to be here.
Thanks for coming on, Sandra. So as Mike says, I do owe you a
lot less than he does and a lot of us newbies in the community
in the last five years. So for us new people, how did
you first get into running? So it was through work.
I had started a new job. It was an oil and gas company.
I'm, I'm, I'm in catering. I'm a catering manager.
I've been all my life and I remember, I think I started in
the end of June and I remember says, oh, Oh yeah, you've just
missed out on our annual run. We always do this, this 5K every
year. And I'm like, oh, thank God, I
missed it. It's like, but before we knew
it, we're back into coming round to signing up for it for the
next again year. And I was like, Oh, no, I'm
going to have to, I'm going to have to do this run or the other
managers to do and I can't be the only manager not doing it.
And so I signed up for it and it was Jog Scotland 5K in the
Botanic Gardens, which doesn't happen anymore.
It was, it was a great one because you get to run around
because Titanic Gardens. And I thought, I'm actually
going to have to go and train for this because I hadn't run
since school. And even then I didn't really
run unless I was forced to. So I got paid, paid of trainers
out the cupboard and a pair of shorts for my holidays and
thought this would be easy. It's only three miles and I got
to the top of my street and I thought I was going to die.
It's like, oh, I'm actually really going to have to train
for this slide. So that was up 2000 and I'll
just look, I had to look it up actually 2005 just realised it's
20 years since I started running.
So I think I trained for six weeks leading up to this 5K and
that was the first race, which was the the Jog Scotland 5K in
Botanics. And I was thrilled to bit.
So I think I was about 35 minutes or something, but I was
absolutely thrilled to get this medal.
And I was like, Oh my God, I've just run 5K.
And then I went back to work all excited because there was quite
a fewers that used to come in like the right runner at
lunchtime. I was really impressed with
them. And I was like, I've done this
5K and I'm really chuffed. And I think I'm going to do
another one. I'm going to go up to Inverness
and do it like because part of the, you know, they do the 5K in
the time and somebody says you could do the 10K, Sandra, you
could definitely do. I was like, do you think so?
I was like, no way, no, yeah, you've got, you've got five
months to train, but of course you could do the 10K.
And I was like, surely not. And then that was that.
I did the 10 key instead of the five key in Inverness.
And that was that. Start of a rocky road.
Start of a. Rocky road indeed.
It wasn't that long afterwards that you got into the the
massive world of ultra marathons going going from the races that
you just mentioned. Tell us how you can't be on the
start line with me. So at the finish of this race, I
got given a goodie bag and there's a copy of runners world
in the in the goodie bag. And it's like, oh, so I'm
looking through this and like, that was the Bible.
I was like, my goodness. And then there's like, oh,
there's forums that you can enjoy and I can find out what,
what like other people think of running and all that kind of
stuff. So I joined this forum and
runners world and but within a few months I had migrated to a
different website. I don't know, is the runners of
our websites still running, Mike.
I I don't think so, but I could be wrong, it's been so long
since I've looked at the forum. So there was a there was a
thread on one of the forums and it was something about fetch and
I was like. So anyway, went and started
chatting to people that I knew on the forums and then we
migrated basically onto Fetch Everyone, which is what I've
just been looking at at the moment because all my runs from,
I think I started logging runs from then in 2005, it was
August, I think was, was when I started long.
So every run I've done that's been on my garment has been, is
on Fetch Everyone. Ian used to write all down.
He's been Diaries and he has, he has, he had hundreds of them
every day. But now everything's online and
if every run I've ever done, every race I've ever done, it's
great to look back and see all your PBS and all that kind of
stuff. But it's such a great website
and I met so many people through like lifelong friends and it's,
it's just been, it's brilliant. So Fetch is like to blame for
the ultras because then I met George, George Reid.
George is a legend. And I met George and Karen
through Fetch and they went together at that point.
They're married now. They went together, but they
knew each other through this running.
And I remember I was doing La Cabre marathon and I'd asked, I
think, I think it was my third marathon and I'd asked George to
pace me because I wanted to get 415 or something.
And so. And George said, Oh yeah, I'll
pace you, I'll be no bother. So he met me at my old one.
He had this bin bag over over himself like to keep yourself
warm while he was waiting on me. And I was like, and we're
chatting about it's like, oh, what was it?
Did you? Because he says I was like, I
was at the ratio. I was at ratio.
So this what race was that? He saw?
Sorry, it's called the Highland fling.
And I was like, all right, how far is that?
And he sees 53 miles. And so he ran the, the fling,
which I'd never heard of. And then next thing he came and
paced me to my 4:15 at like Alba Marathon and that.
So that was my first No one of like what, what on earth is an
Ultron? And who would do something
stupid like that? So I was just a Roadrunner at
that point. I wouldn't even get my I
wouldn't even run in grass. I was like don't get my feet
dirty or anything like that. But I got I got roped into doing
the really of the fling and George Rd.
Will after when he says Sandra, you're going to do Are you sure?
And they were saying what what what's the best leg for you
doing that? They decided the first leg would
be the best one for me to do so. But yeah, that was, that was the
first rocky road, the first windy Rd. into the ultra scene.
I, I think George has got a lot to answer for.
I fully blame him for me getting yeah, 100%.
And it's not the first mention. Keith Hughes, who was on the
show previously, he, he said if he could run with anybody, he,
George would be the person that he would want to run with again.
So yeah, yeah, a lot to answer for.
It has, it has and and yeah, but it was but it's also great the
fact that we had that knowledge, Mike, because it's the nowadays
so much out there for people that can just go like we it was
all new. There was there was there were
no ultras. There was only the the devil,
the West Army and the flame really that that was it.
You know, there was old ones that had went by the wayside
that the two veggies and things like that.
But there was no real there was no ultras until the Suns thing
came along and then suddenly there was all these ultras.
Now there's an ultra every weekend and that is where I just
feel kind of assorted when I go to races.
And I was like, who are all these people?
I used to do every I used to literally know everybody.
And you did as well, Mike, by going on to races and if you're
marshalling or if you're running, you'd know everybody.
At checkpoints, you'd know all the Marshalls, you'd know
everyone. But the scene has just exploded.
It's incredible, which is a good thing.
I looked at the start list for the Sidla Ultra yesterday and no
one, I think there's five people and most of them were from my
running club. That was why I was looking
there, to see how they got on. Carol Martin was.
And Carol Murray was sweeping it and I hadn't even heard it.
I was like, this was, yes, another ultra that's on I hadn't
even heard of. So yeah, so many.
We went from having three races in Scotland to to.
I wouldn't even begin to count how many there is now.
So yeah, spoiled for choice now. I think with the scene changing,
social media has got a heck of a lot to answer for because the
way I came into this world was through Instagram, just making
connections. And you see this one doing that
race and it just as you say it grows arms and legs and then
before you know it, you're way down the rabbit hole.
What I find astonishing, Nikki, is the amount of people that go
into ultras like blind is the wrong word.
Not not building up to it. Like at least I did A5KA10KA
half marathon marathon and it built up to it.
My first, my first full ultra was 30 miles, but it was on the
South Downs way. That's where I had to go to do.
I like to build. Ironically, went back so many
years later to do the 100. But like it's yeah, this.
I've speak to people on racism as as my first.
I've never done a marathon and you're like, why would you do
that? I just, I can't give a head on
that. Actually, you can't.
Well, I was, I was really happy because I put a post up about
West Highland Way and reflecting on Stephen Mckenna's race and I
had so, so many people asking, are you putting your name on the
ballot for this year? And this is no, because I've not
had a year like I had in 2024. I had a really good year that
year and then my training, for personal reasons and
professional reasons, I've not had the time to train and I know
for a fact I've got other professional things going on.
I've not even entered the devil in April because I cannot commit
to the training. Yeah.
It's six months of your life, Yeah.
And I think if you want to do it, if you want to do it, well,
it's six months of your life. And I'm not saying people like
don't take it seriously or anything like that, but from for
me personally, if I turned up, if I turned up at a race, it's
because I want to do it to the best of my ability.
And therefore 6 months of my life will be put aside for
certainly for the full best I'll make.
But obviously even for the flying six months of your life,
you have to be, you have to be selfish.
You have to say, I'm going out for a six well, 6 hour run, 8
hour run and you'll not see me all day kind of thing.
And that must that's difficult. And that's why you see less
people talk about wise or less women and the men and doctors.
And that's because the at home looking after the kids and
that's the way it unless you you've got that balance and it's
quite difficult to do that. I used to get up, I didn't start
running until Stephen was about 12 or 13.
So he was, he was that sort of teenager.
Seems my son, he's 33, nurse or something like that now old and
I would get up at 5:00 in the morning, but that I was used to
doing that because that's what time I would get up for work
anyway. And I ran to work every day at
that time. So that's why I've I got into
ultras quite easily. I could I was up at stupid
o'clock and running, you know, to work every day.
So I would get up and do my 20 mile run before he was even out
of bed. So I couldn't have done ultras
when like when kids say I just couldn't have done it.
I don't know how people do it when it was really young
children without having like really supportive partners on.
It's difficult. You've been doing it, Mike
Forum. Yeah.
It's not easy, is it? No, I.
You're a mental. Get up at 5 and go out for a run
every morning. So yes, yeah.
And I I don't do that anymore. Like I'm I'm retired from ultra
run and now I'm definitely no, no, no, I just don't.
I don't want to and I don't, I don't want to be away from me.
And Ian's not running anymore. That's that that's probably made
Ian as my husband in case Emmy doesn't know.
So previous guest. Yes.
With him not running anymore, I'm having to kind of push
myself out the dwarf where there's crap and things that
I've heard before. We'd be like, I have to go.
I know I've got Molly, Molly. Everybody's like, oh, I've got a
dog, you've got running dog. She's not really running dog.
She'll run with me reluctantly, but she's not one of these ones
that I could strap her on and off the go.
She I pull her up the hills and say the other way around.
So yeah, it's like it's difficult for women to to get
into it and you can't. And I know that some people say,
no, we need to get the balance of women running.
And the reason that there's so many older women in ultra
running, it'll take a ultra running later is because the
kids are older and it's easier to run.
Simple as that. There's there's no big
conspiracy about it or anything. So you've said that you've got
20 years of experience of running and I was having a look
at your DUV record yesterday, just between from when you
started ultras and you've done self transcendence, is that
right In Perth as well? Which is basically a path, isn't
it? It's not trail.
So do you prefer trail or roads for ultra?
I definitely prefer trail because I wouldn't have seen
when when the sums started up. So I've done I think every
single one except the. If anybody doesn't know what the
sums is, does everybody know what sums is?
So Scottish Ultra. Tell us anyway.
Scottish ultra marathon series. So when there was only three
ultras in Scotland, this guy came along who was at Murdo
wasn't it came along and decided to we need one and all all over
the country. So the cataran was kind of born
by then because Dario had done it and Karen took over.
But space like we the air airway.
Well, obviously we're telling me in the flying.
What else? What else was the new ones?
Oh the the Clyde stride, did you mention that?
So George and Karen did that. So all these new races, I would
never have seen all these different places if I hadn't
done all these different ultras. So I would never have been.
Has anybody been on the cataran trail?
When you go on the cataran trail, even when I'm when I was
training for the cataran, I could go out for two days over 2
days and do the whole thing and not see a soul.
The cataran trail is probably still my favorite trail or I've
done West all me a lot because it's it's beautiful and it's
kind of untouched and people know about it, but they're not
on it. There's nobody on it.
You you could just go and run and not see an an absolute soul
for like holiday. It's incredible.
And you don't get that obviously on the West all me like I just
live half a mile from it and it's like I could do this
because sometimes so trail is is my favorite.
But I like I like a good Rd. dress.
I actually thought I'd go mad doing the looks of that, but
actually really enjoyed doing the I do did enjoy doing the
perf and I I always did quite well.
I've won, I've won. I was second lady twice or
second and third, but I'm on a few Scottish Athletics medals
and quite tough myself for doing that.
Neil Gibson once put up a blog saying about how he was, he was
admitting that he was a Roadrunner and as if it was a
bad thing. And I replied to him saying I'm
a runner. But it's like I I probably
prefer trails, but I just like running.
So if it's on the road, then it's on the road.
Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's like you're not if you're a
trail runner, you're a trail runner.
There's, there shouldn't be, Oh, this is best.
And that's, that's, you know, the whole camp thing.
It's like, you know, Scotland and England's kind of thing,
isn't it? His best Edinburgh and Glasgow,
Edinburgh. So yeah, it's, it shouldn't be.
I mean, I, I got a lot of my PBS training for ultras and you're
only going to get these PBS by doing hard miles on on the
roads. A lot of them, you know, IPB of
like every distance when I've run out doing all my, my ultras
because you're working so hard and, and doing so many.
But a lot of these miles aren't just trail miles.
You're doing intervals, you're doing, you know, your speed
sessions and everything. It's not just rocking up and
just run a pill. Yeah.
And you mentioned that you stay, what was it half a mile from the
West Ham away? Yeah.
And was that an influence and why you moved to that location?
Yes and no. We I was obviously during
lockdown and when things have lifted a wee bit.
So for years and years we spoke about, oh, we should move to the
countryside and get a dog. And where we were in Edinburgh,
we were in a sort of converted, it was a flat that was a
converted mansion. So it was only two bedrooms.
But Ian was trying to run a business from the spare room.
Just, it was just really difficult.
You know, we had to end up bringing the, the office chair
and it was just like, you know, it was busier than ever when,
when during lockdown. So we just kind of fast
forwarded our plans. I knew I wasn't going back to
work. I worked at Heriot University in
a Business School, so I knew that that wasn't going to open
anytime soon. So we just passed where we did
our plans by, you know, 20 years, moved to the country and
got a dog. So got Molly.
Ian had an office ready built, ready to move into.
So basically the first day we moved in, Ian was working next
day from his office and we were good to go and, and it was,
yeah, we had people here that we knew.
So there's a few friends in the village and it was close to the
West Ham. So we had all these things, but
sadly a few months later Ian got his heart problems and couldn't
run anymore. But yeah, that was our dream
location of like we're right next to the West helm.
We will be on it all the time and things like that.
And things have got curve balls get chucked in a way.
But so it was. And now obviously we've got Abby
Moore. So we're in between the two.
We're kinda blessed. 2 National parks can't.
Complain at that. Out of the the whole West Island
way because you obviously got a connection with that you've done
there's three and some races. There's the Devil, the Fling,
the full West Island Way, and there's a couple of shorter ones
as well. Out of all the races on the West
Island Way, which one is your favorite?
The thing's my favorite and I think it's there's 2 two reasons
for that. I just prefer the you get such a
mixture of stuff for the fling. You, you know, you start off
it's quite flat through little guy and, and right down to here,
right along and then and then it just changes so much.
I feel that you get value for money of all the change and
stuff. Whereas the top half I find
really rocky and hard on your feet.
You know what I mean? Which is obviously difficult
when you're doing the whole whistle.
I mean this because by then your feet are sore anyway.
But I just prefer the scenery for the first half of it, if
that makes it, which it sounds crazy because you're in Glencoe
and it's the most amazing place in the world for the
second-half. But yeah, I just think the
changing of the underneath your feet, the the rock climbing over
lockside, all that kind of thing.
I just think there's so much change for the fling.
It just keeps you it keeps it fresh and exciting.
I think as the whereas the devil you're it's not an eyeballs out
race, is it? It's more runnable, if that
makes sense. A lot more runnable.
You feel like you're having to run a lot more.
The fling you've got. It's it's like stoppy starty
stuffs and but it's like your Fling's my favorite basically.
And now you've said that you're up in Abbey Moor area and it's
got a selection as well. I think the E Highland way goes
through there, does it? But there are other races like
Larry. Yeah, Space Highway.
Larry grew. Larry.
Glenmore, Yeah. Have you got a favorite around
there? Have you?
Which ones have you been my? My my favorite will be Glenmore.
I won the Glenmore 12 one year and that was the year I pulled
out West Hall Mary's The Wig bums.
I was just broken that year and I didn't I'd end up in hospital
the previous year and I really didn't want to end up in
hospital again. Bad for the race, bad for the
race director who you're married to.
So pulls pulls out. And then because I'd put six
months of training and then to even though my ankles were were
starting to go like a bit broken, I'd got myself back to
fitness quite quickly and got a place in Glenmore and and I'm on
it. So like just for the 12 I didn't
do 24. So that is like that will always
hold a wee special place because you have anywhere you've got to
win. You'll, you'll and, but it's a
great race as well. It's so sociable.
You know, you've, you see people living 2 miles and you see
people all the time. It's just the, the, the roars
you get from the camp and you come round.
That's just great. So it's a, it's everybody should
go into Glenmore. It's various.
And going back to the West Highland Way, you've entered and
completed the race how many times?
I've entered the four times. I've completed it 8 times.
And do you have a favorite year of completion?
My favorite year will be my PB year, which was 2015, which I
said I wanted to get sub 22. So we used to get a hospital
band number around your wrist and I picked 22 in that year.
So that every time I look to my wrist, 22, sub 22.
Sandra, keep it on 2157 is it? Oh amazing.
I nailed it. If you just think now if it was
at the current finish line, that would add an extra 5 minutes on.
But there's no Copper Alley now. There's no.
Yeah. Oh, they've got it easy
nowadays. Things have changed so much.
Namaste, Ali, it says. We started on it initially Mike,
like like how Pearly for instance that is now tarmac,
doesn't it? So but there's other things
that's and you know, tell he's probably said this has changed
so much even after being glass. He used to have to go through
fields and things like that. Now again it's nice and easy to
run on. So yeah, I don't know.
I would just I would train a wee bit harder and I would have
trained for that distance to be that wee bit longer.
I knew that time. Although, you know, I came into
Linda Bra with my crew and Ian appeared because he knew
obviously he was watching obviously.
And he's like, you'll need to, you'll need to, this is where
I'm going to swear it says you're going to really need to
work hard. I went, I am fucking working
hard. It's like you're really going to
have to work half a next 7 miles.
And I'm fucking like, yeah, you think I'm not working hard.
So like I was like, maybe just going up this hill, like telling
me to I need to work hard to get this.
But yeah, it was just you're caught.
They were my crew. I didn't like him.
And watch, I think my gammon had died by them that my crew
obviously knew. And they were like, right,
right. We're just going to going to
just run up this bit. And it got to the stage where
Nick was like really worried about keeping up with me going
down to fire or what? He's like, God didn't slow down
standardization within 10 minute mile and after 95 miles.
So. So yeah, there's good times.
And did you have the same crew every year?
Always team Santa, Nick and Susan and I I met Nick and Susan
through fetch everyone. So I they've been lifelong
friends. Susan was my bridesmaids when we
and he got married, but they've they've when I did the South and
various even and I didn't really need crew, but they no, no,
we're coming. So team Santa had to go.
They they are wonderful because they just knew everything.
They knew what I wanted. They knew they would run out to
meet me asked what I want and come back in and just
everything. There were nothing was too much
trouble for them. Wonderful.
Nick lives in Lincoln and would come up every year.
He'd come up and do training runs with us and Susan Dumfries
and next link about was just and the kid would have people coming
along and help. My son was there a couple of
times my friend Jules and my friend.
So we've had other people come and join for for different
parts, but Nick and Susan were where Team Santa.
That's Nick Dunk and. Nick.
Dunk, Susan. Gallagher can't remember Susan's
last name there for a second. She was up looking after Molly
last night while we were at Scottish then I'll take some
words. How the other half live in
Nicky. I know rubbing shoulders with
athletes that Nicky doesn't know.
Yes. Who's Ailey Doyle?
Only the most decorative Scott. And I still don't know.
And you, you said, you said about good times on the West
Highland Way, but it's not always been good times.
And I seem to remember compartment syndrome.
Tell us a bit about that. So the the first year around the
West Harmony race I had done my training and I was going for sub
23. That was my plan.
All my training has suggested exactly that.
And on the day that was all going to plan, that was right up
to Glencoe. Everything was going to plan.
Subtuity was on and I got into Glencoe checkpoint and as I left
and I'm, I'm, I'm not somebody who hangs around checkpoints
like who will walk and talk me and and feed me as I'm well, as
I'm going. I've had, if I sit down, it's
only to change my shoes or socks or whatever.
And I couldn't, I couldn't run. I just, I just couldn't run.
I was like, oh, my ankles are really sore and so I couldn't
bend them. They were like that, like just
solid. Couldn't move my ankles.
I've finished, I've finished. I had to stop.
It cannot leave him. The doctor.
Chris. What's Chris's second name
again? Ellis.
Yes, yeah. So Doctor Chris Ellis put big
ice packs on my ankles so they were bright red.
One on was worse than the other one.
And I spent an hour and John Kinison was on the bed next to
me. He was having a bad year as
well. And John Kinison was a sub 20
marathon runner, missile me runner.
And I knew I had overtaken him. And it's unusual for me to for
like John to be overtaken. And I knew I was on for sub 23.
But yeah, still got to cannot even.
I was lying there with big bags of ice on my ankles.
And then then he was like giving me the paracetamol's the
strongest you can get. And, and he strapped up my
ankles and I, I had to stomp my way to the end like slowly.
I couldn't bend my ankles. So imagine having to go up like
I cannot leave in that climate. I cannot leave in without
bending your ankles. I was like this, like a robot.
It was horrific. So I mean, I went to the
ceremony, went to the pub at night.
I remember Muriel Downey as a doctor and she's like Sandra,
not sure about your ankles because it was bright red.
I had AI had a dress on and she kept getting me to elevate my my
legs. And she was really worried.
But it's just like holding my leg up for most of the night at
the party and then got home that night and I was awake all night.
I was crying. I was like in so much pain.
And by 5-6 in the morning, Ian phoned Chris and he, and so he
put me on the phone and he's chatting.
He says, like, I've phoned the hospital, they're expecting you
and I need you to go right now. But I didn't, I just didn't
think anything of it. And he says like, well, they're,
they're just go right now, they'll be ready to see you.
So gets into the hospital and I was, I was shaking like that.
I was in so much pain. I was like, it was in agony.
I mean, it gave me drugs really quite quickly, which was good.
But they drew, they've got a mark and drew it around the
front of my ankle and I didn't get to sleep.
I was in the hospital all night and they, they thought it was
compartment syndrome, which we can lose your leg from.
It ended up not being, but they woke me up every hour.
Well, they had this big cage over my leg and they came and
just checked it every hour to make sure that it wasn't
growing. If it was growing, then it was a
big problem. But luckily for me, it wasn't.
It was just what I think Andrew Murray called it ultra
marathoner's ankle, remember, And I've seen a few people have
it before, but it, it looks like compact compartment syndrome and
which can be, yeah, you can lose your limb through that kind of
thing because you're, that's the blood cutting off your, your
blood supply. So it was, it was pretty
horrific. I did get a visit from Karen and
George and Ian. Karen Donahue, George Fried and
Ian, my husband who who came in and said we're just off to the
grog and go. I've just drank the champagne
that you had that and off the event to the grog and go and had
a good night out. I was in hospital.
So I was very aware. After that thing's easy to the
next year I I went back to the West.
I mean, that's when I pulled out because I knew mine because
we're going the same way. I thought I can't end up
hospital for any days. No, no days is worth ending
hospital for. So I knew then I had to change
my training and that meaning looked at my training plan and
we changed it. We just did a lot of different
stuff, a lot more hill work, a lot more stuff to get my uncle.
She used to go and like one training session I started at
King's House Hotel and then her auntie can not leave in and then
I ran back down to the bottom of the devil and then her auntie
cannot leave in and then I ran back to King House Hotel.
So all Monday so things like that were were the kind of game
changers of the next. We are trained just taking
stuff. So it wasn't coming up with
these same problems because if you just keep doing the same
things, nothing will change. Nicky's face looked in shock
when you said that. George and Ian and Karen said
that they were away to the pub when you were left in the is
that. For champagne as well.
But would you have done exactly the same thing?
Would you have went to the pub? Yes, good.
Because, yeah, I would expect that, right, for anybody that's
building up to the West Highway, whose ballot closes today.
I think it's time of recording. But so by the time anybody
listen to this, it'll be closed if somebody's name gets drawn
out. Other than the scare stories of
compartment syndrome and not training hard enough, have you
got any advice for any first timers can?
I just say before that Sandra answers that sorry.
Like after that story I'm wondering by the time it's like
it closes and this goes out how many withdrawals change my.
Mind I but if you can get on to the course, I think that's
invaluable for, you know, you want to run a race and do the
best you can get onto the the route that you want to be
running on. Get used to doing it.
Go on all the training runs that you can.
But if you don't, if you can't, because we've got people from
overseas and that that that can't.
For me, my biggest thing was making sure you've got a
training plan. I sat down we and every year and
we did a plan. And to do that, like you were
talking about earlier, Mike, we, we would, we would factor in 10
KS, half marathons, maybe a marathon road to get the speed.
Because you see, you still need speed.
If you, if you want to do well, you'll still need speed.
So that was all part of my plan. And hence that's why you ended
up PB in because you're doing you're, you're, you're training
so high. You know, PB at most of these
distances if you can, but that it's it's learning to race.
It's turning up at the start of race feeling that nervous
excitement. No one.
So you need to learn to race. So that was part just make a
training plan basically and try and stick to it and life gets in
the way. So if you get to the weekend and
you're like, oh, cut up. If you wanna go bad, can't get
this run, just reschedule it. It's not the end of the world.
Things can be tickled around, but try and it's a six month
plan. You need to get your hair
drained about six months of your life will be you'll be thinking
about nothing else except that back to backgrounds were a big
thing for me. I, I liked doing that going out
the first few miles of doing, you have to done 30 miles a day
before you're doing 20 miles and it's going to do your first 2
miles. You're like, dear God, this is
awful. There's no way I'm going to do
before you know it, you're actually in the groove and it's
fine. Back to backs are really
important, I think to run on tired legs because your legs
will get tired during an ultra, any ultra.
So back to backs. And back, back in the olden days
before family commitments and stuff like that, I, I remember
we used to go down onto the West Highland Way, travelling, what,
200 miles to get there several times a month just to do, yeah,
back-to-back runs. That would be the weekend plan
several times a month and lead up to the that race.
Yeah, you have to be selfish. And again, that goes back to of
like, that's why it's quite difficult for people juggling
young children and things like that.
Nikki, you're, you're saying that this is it's so difficult.
It's so difficult for for men and women like to be able to
fill that. And because you have to be
selfish and you have to be able to you see and write, this is
what I'm doing. And this is the six months of my
life will be nothing but training for like this is.
I love to watch Stevie's journey last year because he I just
think he nailed it. He said everything, right?
He knew, you know, you know what his plan was.
He went out and did all the training on the on the yeah, he
just, he nailed it. And that is what you need to do.
You need to have a plan, try and stick to it and be selfish about
where your where your what your goals are.
I think Stevie's was good as well because Stevie shared
everything on Instagram, which for some people it can be a bit
annoying. But honestly, if anyone's
thinking about it, go back and look at his Instagram profile
and look at what it takes. Because as Sandra's saying, it
will take over your life. And that's exactly why I'm not.
I'm not even thinking about the ballot.
I mean, the ballot. From what I heard, over 600
entries now to 300 faces. Yeah, yeah.
Because I was thinking earlier like even that there's going to
be people in there that get their automatic entries, aren't
there? Is it 5?
If you've done it five times or more, you're in anyway.
You know, and you have still have to be able to, you still
have to have proof that you can still run that just you know
what I mean? You know, you've got 5, but
you've not run for 10 years. You're not getting done.
Right. Yeah, you still have to qualify,
but you're just guaranteed a place.
Yeah, yeah. Stevie that you are mentioning,
it was Stevie McKenna who previous guessed 100 kilos to
100K on Instagram. He's still not changing his name
all. Right, he said.
It was a good it was a good achievement.
Definitely. So Sandra, you've done quite,
you've done tons and tons and tons of races aside from the
West Highland Way. I don't know if that is your
favorite. Do you have a favorite race?
Like I was saying earlier, I think probably the Catalan
because it's just so peaceful meeting in during the race, but
then they don't take a huge amount of people for it.
But I mean, it's easy to get lost, Wasn't it mate?
I wouldn't know. I think I've been lost six times
and done the race. Six times and you've done the.
Double as well, yeah. So I think for it's just, it's
just such a beautiful, peaceful route.
You kindly just say if you want to be at peace, just going to
the Catalan, the West Army will always, always be special.
But yeah, the public cat and I would say it's just, it's the
countryside. It's it's lovely.
It's nice. There's got your runnable
trails. You do fold down all the bogs
and things like that. But it's lovely.
And there's, there's a there's a lock called Lock Chandra.
It's like drunk Sandra. Yeah.
Catanine. Let's see.
Right. You said on the West Ham Way
race you had crew various races like Catarin, you have drop
bags. What kind of nutrition, fuel,
whatever you want to call it, do you have during the race?
I've never eaten the gel in my life.
I ever. I don't really have a sweet
tooth, but if I'm wanting something sweet it's cola
bottles. Love cola balls, not the fizzy
ones, just the regular ones or like any kind of Hannibal.
Like they're not the fried eggs. Just think actual like cola
balls. But for West Ham Maries, because
I go out, I can go out and do probably 1820 miles without
eating because I don't really eat breakfast in the morning.
But not for the West Ham Maries. I've got to fuel.
So, but when I got to, I used to have, I used to have M&S.
That was quite specific M&S rules because a wee soft white
rolls, but either daily Leon or ham and I would have chicken cup
soups. So chicken cup soups, but they
would have two chicken cup soups and one wee cups, a wee pepper.
The wee pack, the plastic cups, paper cups.
So it was really salty and I was getting the taste.
So I would dip my wee roll into my chicken cup of soup.
But tea always used to get the tea at checkpoints.
I would like a cup of tea, but I basically did the whole W Army
race three times on chicken cover soups and M&S rolls and
the yeah, that was it. I just, I didn't.
I've never taken in gels. Cola bottles I can see because
they're nice and just tasty. I hate Jelly babies.
Sorry, Jelly baby hill just delight them.
Never have done. And I've never taken a gel I've
ever, ever, ever. I just prefer real food.
So packet crisps sometimes. So I always had crisps in my
bag, something salty. So I'm much more savoury person
than a than a sweet person. So like if I ever had a look, I
said I needed to have like that much look, I said in the rest
water, right. So it's like could have that
cloying horrible sweet taste in my mouth.
So yeah, see what it's. Done in in certain drop bags,
particularly near the end of a race, you might have some liquid
in there. What would you?
I've had occasional vodka, an iron brew.
I didn't for the rest of my areas, but I have had the flame
several times. And for the Clyde stride, I
remember a Clyde stride. I was piercing Susan once for
doing it. I was stopped.
I think we're about 3 miles from the end and we were on the all
these steps and we sat down and we had our weak cocktails, vodka
and iron brew. We're pouring the vodka into the
miniature into the iron brew bottle and says like, I can't
believe we're having cocktails at mile 37 of 40 mile race.
So yeah, I've had that's what can iron brew because he doesn't
love iron brew. Iron brew is another.
So the iron brew that would probably Mone sweet and it has
to be obviously the proper iron brew, not your sugar free stuff.
That would be my only and I like it Fizzy.
You know, I've seen these people that have they open the coat and
have flatten up on it fizzy. None of this flat coke or flat
iron brown nonsense. I just burnt my way along the
the the course. And is there anything that you
like to have posterous is that do you have any cravings?
For anything to be honest, I am not hungry for about for about
at least 12 hours after. It's really difficult to eat, I
find. Not hungry.
You think you're going to want to eat the world and you don't.
You really don't. But yeah, champagne.
I quite often after West Ham areas would have a really sore
throat. You've had this night.
Yeah. Like when you try to swallow and
I don't know if it's sort of the.
I don't know what it is. It passes after a couple of
hours. But you try and eat or drink
anything, cup of tea, water, and it's just really sore right in
the roost of your mouth. Really, really difficult to eat
or drink anything, to be honest. But it's, it's usually by the
Monday I start getting, and I eat for a week, but for the
first couple of days afterwards, I'm, I think it's because your
body's been awake for 24 hours and it's, and it's been used to
eating minimum amounts of stuff and gets checkpoints and that.
So it's just, you need to let your body settle back down to
get, you know, all the adrenaline.
Everybody thinks they're going to sleep like crazy.
All all you're thinking about sitting down and going to sleep.
You don't, you just you just don't.
You're like absolutely. It wasn't still.
It's very difficult to sleep like a couple of times, but
every time, every time I've done the race, apart from ankle here,
I've went back along and see people come.
I want to see the last finishers.
When it was at leisure centre, I would just wander back on the
road and see people coming in and and people like, oh, you're
not not carding, you're like you're just not.
You've had a few hours sleep and that's fine, but it's just nice
to go and I think you're riding on the wave of the whole race
weekend because it's part of a special weekend.
Kind of don't want it to end and it's just nice.
But your body will take me well and get back to normal.
You mentioned about the sore throat, I think I haven't had it
recently but I remember years ago I used to get it and I was
put it down to being a windy day and you're like breathing.
Harder or something? Yeah, yeah, I I've not had it
every ultra, but I've had it a few times and you're like, it's
just so painful. But it does pass quite quickly,
but just top of your mouth, just so painful.
I remember Karen telling me about it, Karen Donahue.
And when when she's she goes, oh, you suddenly should get a
really bad sore throat. I don't.
Know what I'd I'd I hadn't heard about this, I've done my first
thought. She was a John Muir way and as
far as ultra marathons go, like it was running into a headwind
the whole way, which I had no experience of running ultra
anyway. So I was kind of, is that what
it was in that? And everyone's like, oh, yeah,
it was awful. It was awful.
And that night I was starving and I wanted the Chinese and I
had chicken fried rice and Curry sauce and I couldn't eat it
because the juice Sandra went in my mouth and it, it was as old.
The roof was like sandpaper. Said that because I, I thought
that was just me like so that's quite interesting you've
mentioned that. I've had it a couple of times,
not every race but randomly and I and I don't know, it'd be
quite good to see if there's been any study into that.
Yeah. And you say your favorite
favorite drink after a race is champagne, which I don't think
the race needs to be involved. You probably just have it
anyway. Yeah, but treating every race
like a celebration, an achievement.
What is your greatest achievement?
The greatest achievement for running.
For running, yeah well mention both.
Mention any achievement if you want.
I was chatting to Ian about this actually, because I was thinking
what what is like. I like I was speaking earlier
about when you're, when you're training hard, you'll PB at
every distance. So I've only done London
Marathon months and I went down and I knew I was in great shape.
It was the year I did the, the my PB for West.
No, it was S Transvarius. I think I can't remember either
PB or either West on me or South Transvari.
And I thought I knew I'd get PB, but I didn't know how much of
APB I would get. My, my best before that was 338
and I got 330I thought I'd get my 5 minutes and certainly
didn't expect to knock nearly 10 minutes off for BB and, and do
it in London. But everybody says it's really
difficult to PB in London. So to get 330 in London, I, I
can still dine out at night, you know, like, like you're, I might
not be Ultron anymore, but these races, these PBS will never go
away. You know that that's something
you'll have forever. So on the back of after London,
while I was training for South End movies, I was doing really
well and running really well and I was on fire.
Everything went my way that day. It was just, I was just running
great. I was really enjoying it and it
was, it was kind of like I'd went full circle.
So my very first Ultra was on the South Downs way.
I went all the way down, couldn't get any further.
Like I said, there was no trust in Scotland was really around
about then and I went that way down to South Dunswick to do a
30 mile race. My friend Jen was running it as
well. I I could for Jen.
That was a very, that was my first 40 into the West Army as
well. Go back to that in a minute.
So S Dunswick, Miley to four. I was still running down the
South, but it was great. Could be Miley to four.
I'm on fire and I was on. I was on for probably in between
20 and 21 hours and something went in my thigh, something
excruciating went in my thigh. I was screamed and had to stop.
Well, I didn't stop. I just had to stop running at
that point but carried on. I had to hobble, a slow hobble
for the last 14 miles, but I still did 22 1/2 hours, which I
was dead chuffed with. And I think I think for me being
in such good shape, I was just thrilled to bits to get this
this my buckle with, you know, I knew I was going to do something
for it. Like that sounds really I knew I
was going to do something for I knew I was in good shape and
like bar something go bad, badly wrong.
But I went badly wrong at miles 20.
I might not. It went wrong, you know, later,
later stages, which can happen in any ultra, any race actually.
But yeah, so they they too I guess, are probably my greatest
running achievements. Well, I think a 330 marathon,
that's absolutely incredible. And as you say in London as
well, where it would be quite hard to be because it's such a
large volume of crowd as well. When you were running that 3:30,
I know that sounds really daft, a question probably, but did it
feel really hard at the time or do you remember it feeling like,
right, I'm going, I'm feeling quite comfortable.
How was it when you were running that do?
You feel hard at all, which is really odd because I can't
remember last time I run an 8 minute, 8 minute mile, never
mind doing it for 26. Actually like really tough to
see anything nowadays when I run, but to get to run the whole
the whole way, 8 minute mile. And it's just crazy to me in my
head now. But no, it didn't feel hard at
all because it was in such good shape.
And I've been, I didn't like training and didn't like Rd.
road running training as well. But no, I if I'd known I was 330
and 30 seconds or something like that.
So it wasn't sub 3:30, but maybe if I'd known how close.
I mean, I could see my watch obviously, but if I'd thought I
was going to get anywhere near, I thought it'd be about 335.
I didn't realise I'd be so close to that.
I might have like pushed a wee bit harder, but I was enjoying
that. I really, really enjoyed it and
didn't find it was particularly hard.
I just cruised it, cruised it. Now I can't cruise an 8 while
for half a mile. Never minds like 26.
So you've continued running, Sandra.
You say you're retired from ultra marathons.
Are you retired from any other races?
And why do you still run? The only the only races I really
do at the moment is park runs, having more park runs usually
when we're up there and I run now just to keep fit really.
I probably will do other races as like if can be bothered at
some point. But again, life gets in the way.
I was meant to be doing having more half Mars and then I got I
got I fell a couple of times, got injured, then then something
else I can't remember, something else got in the way.
Oh, Molly. Molly hurt herself.
So Molly was injured. I thought she broke her leg.
So she was about a month out and I couldn't for the first few
days. I couldn't leave it at all.
And I couldn't do my training that was meant to be doing EMS
in Tokyo. So I couldn't do anything.
I was like, she was on really short leash walks and I couldn't
leave her in case she was jumping off the couch or going
up the stairs and things like that.
So that put the kibosh in Aviemore Half Marth.
And I just couldn't get the training done.
And I'm not going to turn up to race that I can't do as well to
my abilities. You know what I mean?
The last race properly, I guess, I guess I did was green awesome
last year because I'm in the lucky position to be able to get
an invite and go to that. And I was on the telly and
everything mix some of the celebs at the start line.
But I just, yeah, I just run for fun now and just and you know, I
don't need to get up at half four every morning anymore.
And if it's raining, I might not go out for a run because it's
raining. And I I ran in blizzards.
I ran in hurricanes, like storm warnings, you name it.
Before there was red, amber and everything.
I've run. I just ran to work and it's 9
miles away for the last. For the latter part, 9 miles
every day, every day, regardless of the weather.
So now I can be a favorite weather runner because I choose
to be. With that said, Sandra, I'm
going to ask something that isn't actually on our question
set, but running all weathers. Do you have a favorite piece of
kit that you like to run in that you wouldn't be without?
Not really, no. I was all, everybody was laughed
at me because I was saying best weather for any reason.
Everything was best weather because I, I, I would start off
with layers, but then I'm doubting my best.
But I'm just, and I don't know if it's just because I'm not
running the same distances or whatever, whatever's changed,
but now I'm freezing all the time just like, well, I need 5
layers before I go out running. I I, but I was, yeah, even in
darkest winter, my hands would always get cold because I get
rain odds. It's always needed gloves.
So gloves sometimes even in the summer because I was leaving the
house at 5 O clock in the morning.
Even the summer, it'd be dark, start off dark and but even like
in Midsummer, maybe start to get light, but but it's still nippy
even in the nicest of days. So I always have gloves on my
back. So gloves is my have gloves and
have a buff because a buff you can if it's like cool first in
the moment I'm wearing it because it keeps your neck warm.
But they can use it as a headband because my ears get
cold. So in the winter I always had a
buff as a headband to keep my ears warm.
The only thing I've not found yet because my nose gets really
cold. What do you do?
Got a cold nose, perhaps wearing a like to murder somebody, but
there's nothing, nothing. What do you do?
Like stick something in your nose and like keep it warm.
But your ears? Everything else you can do.
Can't run me a hat because I get too hot, but because of the buff
you can wear it as a headband and keep your ears warm.
We like a buff. Yeah.
And you mentioned you got invite to Great North Run running with
celebrities. One of my earliest memories with
us running together was something that was we found out
about through Fetch Everyone. The website that you mentioned
was running with Eddie Izzard when he ran rounds basically
started in London, came up through Scotland.
I can't remember, was it 50 marathons he was doing and?
It was. Was it not random?
Was it not 52? I don't know why 50. 2
something, I can't remember 52 marathons in something like 50-6
yeah. So we, we ran with them.
We were, we ran together with him and Frank Skinner, Denise
Van Outen on a well, I I started in Sterling and then you joined
us when we got to Edinburgh. Edinburgh, so I had run the day
before, I had run a papers seat with them.
So I was on I was on all the news channels during because it
was during the festival as well. That's why Frank Skinner was
there heaps on the show and I had went to meet him at Bristol
Square and actually I was only one.
I was want to show him where where to go above and I think it
was only about Edinburgh person there.
So to take him. So we went all the way up to
after seat, the top, after seat camera crews like from STVBBC
and everything, all the top. So it was it was a bit bizarre.
So that was that was the maybe the day two days before, I can't
remember. And then the day we ran, but you
might, we ran from who did meet up, picked you up in a random
place. I On the Edinburgh day we
started near the airport run into town, but he went to go and
see a show and then start again in the afternoon so.
We did about 20 miles and I had done the Ockels race the day
before. Again, that ridiculous race.
I I call it like I'm going to swear again, the bastard occles
like I I thought I'm doing I'm doing results.
I can go and do this this 20 mile race.
That'd be fine. It's called the Ocles 2000.
And have you done that, Mike? I've not, no.
So I did it. I thought it'd be fine.
And I did it with Phil Owen, and he was he You hadn't you had.
Can you navigate? I saw the saw the hills and the
ocles. Over 2000 feet.
Is it? Yeah.
And I, I actually thought I was going to die that day.
I am going to get airlifted off here.
I've been running along and suddenly I've disappeared down
this ditch. I honestly thought I was going
to break my leg or ankle or I thought I was going to die.
And I, I took me years to go back to the locals.
I did it as a Glee club run. Years and years because it was,
it was. I was traumatized by it.
And I remember when do you remember Scott Scotty Ribena
face Scott Creekhead. So guy called Scott Creekhead
said to me, Sandra, I trained for five years before I did
that. I trained for five years before
I even 17 darkness. And I was like, how can we buy?
So, yeah, anybody that's going to the race is still going, I
think. And if you're going to go and do
it, please train properly. But don't, don't do what I did.
Don't be a Sandra. That was that was that was the
day before we met a day and run another 20 miles with them.
Go figure. Was the oak holes humble in
Sandra? Yes, it was.
I think. Yeah, it was.
It was awful. And you mentioned it was a Glee
club run you were doing. What is the Glee Club for those
that don't know? The Glee club was started up by
Ellen McPhee. Ellen McPhee was kind of the
founder of the Fling, Hern Murdo and when the Fling first
started, Ian was one of the first runners of the race.
There was only 17 of them and they would meet John Kinston,
Ian and a lot like all the Peter Duggan, we'd all go and do all
these training runs and there were and and Ellen, but there
were hard training runs like these guys take no prisoners off
the goal, like really hard trainer and Ellen says this is
just a nightmare. I want to just go and enjoy
myself like a bit of a like a decent like run and enjoy the
countryside and the views and things like that.
So the Glee Cup is born from that of we want to enjoy runs
and there's no pace. You're not eyeballs out.
This is about along anybody, any ability could go along and just
enjoy runs and and beautiful countryside.
So we had on the West Ham Bay cataran and they've been all
over and the the Glee cup still does run.
I don't think as as many as I used to be, but that's where the
where the Glee cup came from and why it came around because you
had people like Ian and John who were wanting to run really fast
and and train with that. They they, you know, work hard,
play hard, they trained hard. They went interested in somebody
behind just stop and wait and that's that wasn't their get,
that wasn't their bag not stopping me on anybody.
But the Glee club does welcome anybody because I've been on a
few of their runs and it is open to anybody that wants to run as
long as you're not forcing anybody to run at your pace.
Yes, yeah, it's welcoming to everybody and you can go on fast
if you want to. Yeah, I have all the runs.
You're you're saying you're not running as much now, but you
were whether. I don't know if the answer to
this question changes, but what do you think about while you're
running? When's this going to end is?
That the same for a three mile run that you you started off
with for your 5K for your work first run.
The same as the West Helen Way. I don't, I don't even think.
I think about things in the same way as I just go about my
day-to-day and think about things.
I listen to my radio when I, when I run, which is a bit
weird. Most of the people will listen
to music. So I am listening to music, but
I'm also listening to the radio. So I'm there.
I'm hearing other stuff like traffic news or the weather
reports or like chats and things like that.
So I, I don't think I think about anything.
I'm usually listening to what's going on, if you know what I
mean. I've always, always I've got,
I've got bone conductor earphones now.
But even when I didn't, when I had the the proper earphones,
the wired ones, I always had it low enough to be able to hear
what was going on and about me and people.
Used to be when I worked at Heriot Business School, I ran on
the canal quite a lot of time and it's pitch black in the
morning at any time of the year. And I've run along right through
Worcester Hills and all these type dodgy places.
Sorry, anybody from Mercy Hills, you know, you're not terrified,
you know. And I'm like, I was probably
more chance of me getting attacked at six O clock at night
in the Meadows than there is at 6 O clock in the morning on the
on the canal path by the dark or not.
So I know I wasn't terrified. I was never and I was never
scared when I was running, but I always was aware of what was
going on and about me. I could hear stuff.
I could hear somebody come from behind.
I could hear bikes because quite often I have bikes like tearing
past me, no lights on or whatever, but I could hear them
coming before because my earphones were low enough to
just to be aware. But now you've got the bone
conductor ones. So which is great anyway, but
just be you need to be aware of your surroundings wherever you
are, yeah. Do you have a favorite radio
station? Radio 4 for still listen to
Radio 4 because I'm on Edinburgh Girl and I'll always be in
Edinburgh Girl wherever I live. I go on holiday and I go for a
run. I'm listening to Radio 4.
If I listen to MFR when I'm going to be more, but there's
network to anyway now. But yeah, Radio 4.
And you have a heavy involvement with the West Highland Way and
volunteering. Do you have any other events
that you volunteer for and help out with or anything that you've
got coming up? Are you still involved with the
West Highland Way race next year?
I mean, Ian has stepped down as you know, as race director, so I
am still doing the social media for it, which can be fun times.
But why I love race weekend because I try and get as much
live updates and chat to runners.
People were saying to me last year, oh, that was my brother.
That was like, you know, watching from Australia,
watching from and they've got to see their.
I was having to be chat with them as it came into being glass
or whatever. So that that's kind of quite
exciting for that. But yeah, that's that.
I'm just kind of involved and obviously like help whatever I'm
needed. And I always I'm always on
registration duties for the rest of our Medes and then and then
just like hopping up and down the course.
I don't do as many. I help at our local 10 Ki
usually go into the route marking for it and do then the
the tail run for that. But I've helped probably every
Scottish ultra go in. Like I say, every sums one.
If I wasn't running, I was helping.
I felt to fling. I helped it fling every year.
I mean, I've helped devil, I've helped Catalan, Catalan for
years. I cooked for all the runners,
cooked for all the runners and the crew.
They there's not a race. I don't think I've I've
marshalled that. So I don't feel guilty about not
doing it so much now. I still do it, but I don't feel
guilty about not doing it because that our life was going
to races and helping out at races and that's through
Scottish athletics or for all the the ultras.
It wasn't just it wasn't just ultras were helping.
It have helped out. Adrian Stott, who's the new race
director of Your Name was Adrian has races at Silver Nose so and
at the medals as well. So we we have done a lot over
the years definitely. And I think it's so, so
important. These races do not happen by
themselves. It's not a money making machine,
most of them aren't. So unless people help, the races
won't happen. You see a lot of people turn up
and like run race a lot but never help.
And I don't understand that because they'll these races will
not carry on if people don't give something back.
Give something back to the community that you're enjoying
and that's it's not much to ask. And actually it's really bloody
good fun as well, although it is actually sometimes harder than
running. I've done, I have done, I have
done 12 hour shifts at the Fling.
I've never taken 12 hours to run the Fling ever.
So yeah, like I'm like, I'd be finished this hours ago.
I've been running it. So it's a hard, it's a hard gig
for the cataran. I was up at 6, four O clock in
the morning cooking for Marshalls and runners and then
then cooking for them coming back when they finish as well.
So long day. It definitely is.
I can back to you on that. It's it's hard work.
Like, see, it's sometimes harder than run it.
It's a bit like crewing for the West Army.
Yeah, I'd rather run it. And do do you have any dream
races or bucket list races that you would like to do in the
future? Or even adventures if you're
not. Racing, You won't be surprised
to hear Martha Lamedoc is kind of the only one that's really on
the list. I would, I would really like to
go and do that one day. It's just always been something
I've had in my head. It's just a fun.
I'm like, I'm not really racing any big distances anymore, but
that's one I could definitely manage to get around.
And for those that don't know Martha and the Meddock, you are
encouraged to have a little beverage throughout the race.
Through the wine regions of France.
Oh, is it that one? Oh, that sounds a good one as
well, Yeah. So the water stations are wine
stations basically, but there's also like, you know, Takuta
rewards and all that kind of stuff.
So it just looks like a fun race to do.
I think that. And how often do you get a
drink? Every mile.
Oh God no. I'd get to my.
I'd get past miles too. And I would be.
I'd be lost. Glencoe, Glencoe Marathon, I
don't know if they still use still do it, but when I did
Glencoe Marathon when I got to Linda Bar, but I think they do
it backwards now. They do it start at Fort William
and finish in Glencoe now. We used to start Glencoe and
finishing in Fort William. When you got to Linda Bar, they
had port and cheese and I was, I had, I had to port and the
cheese and maybe two or three ports.
But yeah, on the Carron Trail, depending on who's marshalling
at the last checkpoint, yeah, you sometimes get a whiskey
there. Yes, I don't like whiskey.
I don't Scottish. You don't like whiskey?
Is the last next point at cat around before that massive hell
that you go up at the? End right.
Yeah, it's a. Bit of a hill.
On the elevation. Slight hill on the way up.
It it just looks big because the on the elevation graph, because
the the rest of the course is so flat.
It's like a pancake. It's.
Not a pancake is. That a lie, mate, is he?
Trying to get you to do the cat or.
I would love it but see after he had in the pennies talk about it
and getting lost. That's the absolutely effed for
me doing that. Well, that's why you need to go
do your training on. Yeah, to be fair on on the
Karen, I would never have got lost if I actually looked where
I was going, but I was trying to run fast.
You had just right because you were like running out of head
and then suddenly you appeared in front of me.
I'm like, who have you been? And then the trail run out.
I think you see that's like there's there's a style if we go
over there. So not not often.
I will be showing you the way. Yeah.
No, I think you still be by about two minutes.
I was saying every time that I've got lost, if I had actually
looked, there was a sign to point you in the right
direction. It's just that.
A. 100% my own fault, I didn't look so.
Just to be aware like like anything, everybody blindly
follows. I don't know if Ian told you
this and when he when he was on, he got lost in mess and I made
it in the first 3 miles. Yep.
But then you know how he got that hit so long at first they
all went straight on like first. So he just followed all the
runners that were head young and when they got to when they got
to water, they realised we're like there was never water,
there was never a river here and the altar.
So they all did about an extra mile that year.
Not all of them, but at least thirty of them all went the
wrong way today. You go EMBT race director W Army
just went the wrong way on the West Army.
Not not just the race director, Rob Sinclair, but the year that
he set the record, he did an extra mile in Murdoch Park
because him and Lee Kemp were chatting and went the wrong way,
so they went half a mile off. He ended up having to overtake
everybody in the race. Because you take your mind off
it for a second. If you're chatting somebody, Oh,
you didn't see that sign like you're trying to pass it.
So that anybody doing an ultra, there you go.
There's a tip. Just watch where you're going.
You're you're just because somebody's went that way just to
see you're going that way. When I was talking about the the
fling really. So I remember coming to the
beach side. I I'd never been on the West
harmony at this point ever. And I came out.
I blame, have to say some of the Marshalls are to blame here.
Marshalls were standing at the beach tree, not at the gross
crossing. And I came out to cross the road
and ran down the to the left. I didn't know I was crossing the
road and going over to the next part of the trail.
I just came in and went down the road, come in, down the road.
And somebody shouted me back. Oh, it's this way.
I'm like, well, that's what the Marshalls are there for.
You're telling me that? But our runner shouted me back.
I got, I got, I got lost three times on the 1st 12 miles of the
West. Dear God.
Right. The next question have you got
anybody that you would like to run with, whether alive or not,
fictional or real? I'd like to see, I wish, I wish
you, Ian could be done in again. So I'd like to be running with
my husband again. We used to do a lot of runs.
He was always fast and I was always just seeing him from
behind, like it was a good windbreaker.
We had quite early adventures, a lot of like, Oh, my training
where when I was training hard, he was, he was my biggest
supporter. He would be out meet me at
checkpoint for to meet me. So he would do as many miles
because he would run out to meet me and run back in And we just
and we would just go off weekends and just do lots of
running and things. So Ian as a person I would like
to run with again and it can run.
But it kept on getting injuries again.
So he's just never a golfer. And we walked, we still walk
together a lot with Molly, obviously.
But yeah, kind of missed those days where and I probably would
be running more if you miss or run as well because that
incentive to be able to go out and do your V adventures
together and all that. So yeah, that was that's an easy
one to pick. And last question, unless Mike
has any more after this, do you have anything coming up for
running wise next? No, no, I don't even know if I'm
going to run tomorrow. Apparently it's like I've just
got an Alexa warning. See if it's really going to
rain. Probably not.
I am working. Tomorrow, the next few days, I
usually try and get it running before go to work.
If Carol will persuade me to go out like I should say I'm
running before like so it's quite good.
If you can say to somebody I'll meet you to go for a run, then
you're not going to back out of it.
So that's not a good good view tip.
And it's when, but it's before. If I was training for something,
the weather made no difference whatsoever apart from the fact
what whatever you're packing in your bag, it was it was
happening. 30 mile run, fifty mile run, whatever it is, it's
happening. Weather, weather schmeether.
Now I'm like, what was a wee drizzle?
I'll just stay and have a cup of tea.
But you know, I'd say nobody can take away all my times and all
my races that are done So I I can like I, I take my hat off to
to you, Mike, you're still you're still running to go well
after all these years. And I think that's really
difficult thing. We're chatting about that
recently, me and Carol and few others who when we all started
running, we everybody knew each other like we were talking
about. I don't think of all the people
that we've all started running together are all still running
because a lot of life will catch up with your injuries.
I've got osteorthritis, my knee that's just probably aging.
But a lot of people get injured, never really get back into or,
you know, various things get thrown your way.
So I just think enjoy the stuff that you're doing while you can
do it while you're fit and healthy and fair play to people
like yourself, Mike, who are still doing it all these years
later at a high level. It's a difficult thing to do
because it's difficult thing to especially you had your heart
problems as well. It's we don't know what's around
the corner. Take what you can, when you can
get it and when you've got your health, carry on doing it.
And then and just, you know, enjoying all your enjoying the
journey basically isn't it? But enjoying what you can do I.
Think that's the keyword enjoying it.
If you're not enjoying it, why you're doing it?
Why would you do it? Why?
Why bother? You know, you see people like
moaning and I mean I don't particularly like park ground
sugar hard, 5 KS are hard. Your eyeballs are out the whole
way and I do moan all the way there.
Don't go to park. But I'm always, I'm always
really tough once I've done it. Anyways, you like actually, but
I, I was never really a nervous racer.
I was, I was always really chilled for the West helmet race
turning up and things like that. I think if you've done the
training for stuff, then you can turn up at races and fill.
I know I've done everything I can and I think this is really
important for anybody that's that's wanted to the best army
race or any other race. If you've done the training, get
into the start line in one piece is probably the most important
part. Get into the start line.
You've done the training them as as that's all you need to do
because once you're on the start line, the rest will take care of
itself. So many people you see getting
injured leading up to races that are like doing stupid stuff or,
or, or just the fell over or broken ankle or whatever.
So getting to the start line of that six months training is your
most important, but getting to the end will take care of
itself. Get to the start line is the
most important thing. And that start line goes all the
way to the very start line. I know somebody two years ago
who fell over in the car park, the West Highland Way, and they
didn't make it to the start line.
Life gets in the way. Yeah, yeah.
Like we, we had people last year picking up the number and then
coming back and handing it back in.
I I've never had that before. Like in all the years it's been
15 years of involvement of it's like what, and you've done six
months. Why would you then turn up with
your crew And then because because it's a big commitment to
bring your crew along and do all that.
But that's that two years ago. I think we've had that now of
people pulling out on the day mad.
Well, as Nikki said, I think that draws us to a close.
Thank you, Sandra for coming on. Great chat, great catch up.
Thank you Nikki for being Nikki and it's goodbye for me.
Thank you me, and it's been great.