Hello and welcome back We're tonight's guest has been I've
been involved in the West Island Way since 2010 I think and any
time that I've been there our guest tonight has been there.
My my first involvement with the West Island Way was supporting
to a close friend and his not a friend doing starting in Fort
William, running down to the start of the West Highland way,
turning around and going back again.
And tonight the the the other Nutter was Keith Hughes.
So welcome, Keith. Thanks very much, Mike.
Hi, Keith. Hello Nikki, good to meet you as
well. So in total contrast to Mike, I
am brand new to the whole West Highland Way scene.
And when Mike introduced me to Keith last week and says I've
asked Keith to come on the podcast, I said who?
So just as a bit of background, Keith, for people like myself
and anyone brand new to the scene, who who is Keith Hughes
and how did you get into running?
So I guess Keith Hughes is a late 50 something Australian
bloke that lives in, in Edinburgh with my, with my son
and my puppy dog and, and what seemed to be my, well hopefully
seemed to be moving in with my, my fiance Jenny I've been
involved with, as Mike said, I've been involved the West
Holland Way since 2020. Sorry, 2002 was my first W
Holland Way race. I've yeah, I've been living in
Scotland for the last 25 years before that of 30 years and
stuff like that. What else is there to tell about
me? I do IT project management, T
type stuff and occasionally still get out and do some runs
on hills. Fantastic, and how did you get
into running in the 1st place? Did you run from young or was
that since you moved to Scotland?
So my first run was actually when I first lived in Glasgow in
the 1990s. I, I, I did the, I saw a sign
for the Glasgow half, the, the great Glasgow half.
So I did then that in about 19 Ninety, 1991 and but that really
didn't, you know, that was that was all good.
I'd never done 1/2 marathon before.
I wasn't really a a runner at all, but I just thought it was
going past my door. So I thought I'll I'll join that
one, you know. Then me and my then wife went
back to Australia in 9495 and it was after the birth of my first
of my my eldest daughter Kirstie in 1997.
And I'd seen the, the effort that my ex-wife Shirley had put
in for the birth. And I don't know, I don't know
whether it inspired me or scared me or whatever, but I basically
thought that that was incredible.
I've never seen something incredible in my life.
So I decided I'd go and run a marathon.
I don't know whether at that time I was running away from
something and I still am. But nevertheless I started
running. And yeah, I, I ended up doing a,
a couple of marathons in, in Australia at that time.
My first one was, was a marathon in an island called Rottnest,
which is just off the beach off off the coast in Perth.
And I did that in just under 4 hours.
And then it's sort of, yeah, progressed from there.
Myself and, and Shirley moved back to Scotland in in 2000s and
my first, my involvement with the West Highland Way started
when I'm I fell into bad company and I met a bloke called John
Kennedy working at Grangemouth Refinery.
And somebody had said, oh, if you want to go for a run with at
lunchtime, there's this bloke called John.
He does a bit of running. Anyway, I met this bloke John
and he was a 247 marathon. I'm like, oh man, big long legs
and all the rest of it. And he, and he said to me, oh,
have you heard of the West Island Way?
And I had heard of the West Island Way, but he said, yeah,
I'll have run it. I said, oh, no, you, you, you,
you don't run bad. That's, that's like, that's five
days walk as as everybody does. Oh, no, no, no, it you just need
to get along at 4 miles an hour. And you know, there we were.
I was running along, you know, probably doing 4 1/2 five minute
case. I'm thinking 4 miles an hour.
That sounds doable. And it just went into my brain
and never got out ever again. You know, it just basically I, I
molded over and I thought, hang on a second.
It just became, it was like, I have to enter.
I'll just have to enter it, you know, But that was obviously
back in the day when, you know, it was you'd made-up for a a run
with like minded people, you know, at that time.
I think one of my first runs I happened to run along with with
Dario and with who was the race direct or the involved in the
race at the time. I think he and beat he might
have even been there if he wasn't.
He was definitely there in those initial runs.
And it was all sort of word of mouth.
And yeah, basically that's how I got involved with the West
Holland Way. And I did my first race in 2002
on the back of two half marathons and a load of a load
of bullshit in my mind, basically trying to think,
thinking that I could go and do this.
But yeah, completed it in about 30-3 hours and 15 minutes or
something like that. So yeah, yeah, it's sort of been
in me ever since. And that was you completed the
first time you entered that? Yeah, I did.
Yeah, I was. I was last coming into Kinloch.
Sorry. Into King's House, because there
was a checkpoint at King's House at the time.
It was absolutely bucketing down.
I'd spend most of the day faffing about, you know, I think
between Balmaha and Rawdon and I stopped four times because my
car was there or my friend's car was there.
Didn't know anything about cracking on and getting on with
it. But yeah, I was, I was, you
know, pushing the time limits at that stage.
And it was absolutely tipping it down.
And I got, I was coming into King's house and it was just
short of 24 hours. It was near the cut off.
And I was just like, oh, this is absolutely horrible evening at
night. But I got there and I was like,
yeah, but if I stop here, I'm only gonna have to get to this
point next year. So.
And, and I got into the checkpoint and I always remember
my my support crew was there, a guy called Mark Hobbs and his
wife. He was ready.
It was as I said, it was absolutely persisting down.
It was 1:00 in the morning, whatever It was absolutely
persisting down. And he was standing there with
his waterproofs on gone. All right, you ready to go?
And and it was just like, that was just the boost I needed.
I was like, well, if he's stood out here in the rain, I better
just crack on and do it. So yeah, I was, I was really
glad to get that one finished, you know.
Terms of checkpoints, how have they changed over the years?
So that one was checkpoint was at, as I say King's house.
They moved that a few years ago to the obviously the bigger car
park. As numbers have gone as have
increased. You know, you used to get a
checkpoint at Derry Derrick at the little bridge and I remember
a couple of times coming in there going for a swim in the,
in the river. And I still do to this day.
If I'm ever I'm going through there, I'll, I'll stop and have
a swim at Derry Derrick. Kamali Cottage was a checkpoint
for for a time. But yeah, fundamentally they,
they're pretty much the same, you know, a couple of those, but
they, they've taken out obviously the smaller, smaller
places because it, you know, you can't have 200 odd people and
cars stopping at Derry Derrick Bridge.
You'd never get out, you know? And as Mike says with the
checkpoints, I would imagine since 2002 to present day, the
race, not so much the course, even though in my own research,
I know the course has had marginal changes, but there must
have been so many changes with entry process, the tech that
we've got now, even the cat. What differences have you seen
from when you first entered to even to someone entered in
today? Yeah, well, obviously back in
the day when I first started, the course was so much harder.
You know that that goes without saying.
You know any any old local teens or or old or old old old woman
will tell you the exactly the same.
We had deer styles between Lundavra and and the the Forest
Rd. a forestry Rd. which were conservatively 1820 foot, 25
foot high that you'd have to climb over after 80 miles in
your legs. So yeah, obviously a lot of
change. But yeah, you're absolutely
right on on other things, you know, just the just knowing,
like even mobile phones, even keeping in contact with people,
even having a, having a watch that would tell you where you
are or how far you've got to run or whatever.
It's it has, it's, it's really it, it, it, it has fundamentally
changed so much. And, and, and I am joking,
obviously it's not become easier.
It's still 95 miles. And yes, some bits of the course
are definitely easier than back in the day.
But then, you know, I hated it at the time, but the little
additions like of putting in the the low Rd. in at Loch Lomond,
that added a lot, a bit of complexity and a bit of
technical stuff. And, and, and actually adds a
bit of time into that section and the section north of there
in the snide up to up to Ben Glass Farm.
You know, that's never going to change.
That's just going to be rocks and goat track for forever, you
know. So yeah, it whilst it's changed,
it's, it's, it's still pretty much exactly the same, the same
challenge that, you know, I first did in 2002.
And, and obviously the people that first kicked it off in, in,
in in the 1990s had to face, you know, the.
Things that I noticed the most is the forestry works just going
through like before Balmaha and then later on up like 5 miles
before time drum and then later on further up the course it's
just like forest just gone and this is not the same place.
No, no. It used to be you'd come into
Drum and obviously you'd get into Drummond at 13 Mile or
whatever it happens to be. Then you'd have that long path
up and then you'd be in forest, right.
And then your first glimpse of Loch Lomond would be as you
topped out coming up Conic Hill, because up until that you'd
basically either been behind the hill or in forest.
But now it's, it's effectively, you know, way before you even
start going up Conic Hill. And there's a bit of me that's
just like, oh, I really miss running in that forest.
Albeit it was always absolutely horrendous for midges at 3:00 or
3:00 or 4:00 in the morning. It was horrible.
And yeah, so, you know, swings and roundabouts.
But yeah, exactly that, Mike, you know that I, I do miss that
the way the the course has changed.
And, you know, even the first time going up before London
ever, all of that was forest. And after London ever, all of
that was forest. So yeah, it's, it's, I wonder
what's going to be like in 20 years time with the all the
trees will come back, you know. So back in the day that they
still keep a tracker on you? Or was it just support crews
that had to keep an eye on you? Yeah.
Basically support crews and you know, you'll have to ask
somebody that was in race control at those times, but
effectively it was support crews.
It was a lot more, I don't know, maybe sort more, I won't call it
self reliant because everybody had their support crew and I
think there's a lot more emphasis on support crews and
making sure that you did have somebody with you that whole
way. But it must have been an
absolute nightmare for to keep control of that.
Now luckily the numbers were small.
I mean, when I first completed, I was 33rd out of 40 starters
and 35 finishes or something like that, you know?
So, yeah, it's it, you know, must it's obviously a lot easier
to look after that amount of people rather than the, you
know, 300 that we've got coming in for, for, for this year or
this year's race and over the last couple of years.
But yeah, you know, it must have been phone calls and, you know,
Yeah, yeah. Somebody's lost, I don't think.
No, no, I won't even say that. Let's not go there about losing
people. And since 2002, how many times
have you completed? So I've completed 13 but DNF one
is one of my completions with a DNF.
That's a lot of goblets. It is a lot of goblets and is.
It 10 you get a decanter. 10 you get a decanter.
Yeah, absolutely. So where do you keep them all?
They're actually, well, there's a goblet here and it's usually
sits on usually sit, they sit on a, on a, on a shelf in my, in my
lounge room here just to my right so I can look over there.
Only recently got them out like in the last year or so, I
finally had a place to put them. So yeah, they just sit up there
on the shelf and my son knows not to ever hit a ball in the
front room here or anything like that.
He knows that those are and he doesn't touch them or anything
like that. So and the cleaner doesn't touch
them or anything like that. So yeah, they just basically sit
up there. And are they all the exact same?
Same design and everything. No, no, give me two seconds.
There are subtle differences in each one, but I'm sure Keith's
going to show us for the listeners out there.
So all the listeners. This is where YouTube has the
advantage. Definitely.
I'm lucky enough I've got a selection of three, so I've got
a whiskey, a whiskey decanter. So they'd run out of goblets in
2002. So I got this one which I'm
quite proud of. It's my first goblet that you
like and it's very limited edition because there's only me
and I think two or three other people that have ever got one
that's. Amazing.
General goblets look like this, obviously like that.
So that's a good one. And then this is my most
proudest one, which is a bigger one.
And that was the one that Dario gave me when I did the Great
Glen after finishing the West Island Way in 2009.
And I'm particularly proud of that one because it was quite
sad actually, because obviously he died about two or three weeks
after he passed away. He was out for a run with some
friends. He passed away up on locking the
GAR. So yeah, that was the last
goblet he ever gave. And yeah, but he, we went to a
party at EM Beatty's house or BBQ post race barbecue.
And he, Dario comes up, he finds up and goes, oh, here you go,
Keith, I've got something for you.
And I didn't even open it at the time.
I just thought, oh, thanks, Daria, I've got, I've got a
goblet. But yeah, no, he'd actually got
a special one made-up for me. So I was, I was really quite
chuffed about that, you know. And that's when you have to keep
extra safe. That one is extra shape safe.
Yeah, absolutely. Do you want to?
Nikki probably doesn't even know who Dario was.
You want to say a few words about Dario?
Yeah, I mean Dario for those that don't know him, you'll
you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll see his saw his post.
It's at the top of Loch Lyman, at the top of of the of the
climb out of Loch Climb. And I mean, you know,
collectively known as the, the, the, the, the land of angels or
the the place of angels or, or, or whatever.
And Dario's post is there with a little tin cap on the on the top
of it to signify his bald head. That was put there by Tim and
Tim Downey and Dave Waterman a few years ago.
Yeah, Dario was, yeah. I mean, he, he took over the
race organization from, I think it was Stan Millman when I first
did it. Dario took it over and ran it
for about 10 years and he was an infectious bloke.
He was, it was a lovely bloke, Yeah.
Just mad as a box of frogs really came really engaging.
Just really wanted to know, you know, his stories at the end of
presentations, if we, if Dario was still with us, your
presentations would now take upwards of about 9 or 10 hours
because he would have to tell a little story about everybody
because he knew everybody. So, yeah, Dario, it was, it was
a real, it was obviously such a sad time when he when he passed.
But yeah, for those that didn't know him, you, we, we're here
today celebrating the West Highland Way, largely because of
all the work that he put in. And.
Yeah, like I said, he was he, he was, he was some some bloke.
I remember being camp camping. It must have been 2003 or 2004.
It was August, he says. I just got this random phone
call. Keith, it's Daria.
I said hi. Hi.
Yeah, he goes. You're in the race next year and
I'm like, I'm not even sure if I'm not if I'm sure if I'm doing
it yet, mate. He goes no, no, no, no, you're
in the race next year. It's like, oh, okay, thanks
Dario. So that was that was that, you
know, I was told. So yeah, there we go.
And that's how you found out. Yeah, yeah, that's how I found
out, yeah. That's how you found out you
were entering. Yeah, that's how I found out I
was emptied. Yeah.
Yeah, I didn't even entered. That was basically the no,
you're told, you know, So, yeah, I don't know.
He did that a lot. But yeah, no, he was a wonderful
man and. Just as a side for that, like
for people like me that are brand new, I think that's what
is really infectious for the race is there are people like
yourself, Keith Ian race direct or even you Mike when you're
that's open, Jelly Baby hill. There's so many small stories
and when you look onto the West Highland We Race website of the
history of it, It's really, really nice just to see and that
you guys are carrying on these traditions and legacy, which is
what makes this race so special. Some somebody else that had had
a history of the West Highway part of the the family was
Murder McHugh and he did Jelly Baby Hill for 10 years and used
to vet the races for 10 years I think it was.
And I I took over the Jelly Baby Hill role and Keith took over
the vetting role. So we were roped into it.
Takes two of us to do the job of one man.
But, you know, that man is murdered on McEwen, so you know,
that's, that's OK, you know? So moving on from Dario's method
of delivering a phone call, I'm guessing you don't deliver phone
calls to however many people are allowed into this race.
So what are the statistics for that, Keith?
How many people are allowed in and what's the process?
So the, the, the process is, and I'll, I'll just start it off to
begin with people, people ask, oh, how do I get into the West
Island way? The easiest and actually the
only way of getting into the West Island Way race is to
complete A65K trial ultra in the last three years.
That is the base level. Do one of those and you'll
either go into the ballot or in, in special in, in certain
circumstances, you'll, you'll move past the ballot.
You'll, you'll be exempt. The exemptions are given to
those people who have run 5 races or more and who have
completed a, an ultra race of 65K or more since 2022.
For this year and previous winners, yeah and yeah,
basically top six, etcetera. They'll all get an exemption and
that's basically the criteria. So I looked through all the
entries and this year currently as it stands, we've got 504
entries so. Three days left is it?
Yeah, they all, they will close at midnight on the 30th of
November. So I'm not expecting a huge
volume more first, first day. I think we had close to 3 or 350
or something like that. So, yeah, so I've, I've now
looked through all of that. I, I confirm that people have
done their 65K and then basically those that are exempt,
as I say, people like myself, for example, I did my last
ultra, I only just scraped in this year.
My last ultra was more 800 in 2022 and I've done before race
and so I'm exempt. Fiona Rennie and Neil
Mccritchie, obviously copious overachievers and show offy sort
of people, you know, with their 18 goblets.
They, they clearly, they clearly say sail through.
We're gonna have to make some sort of special criteria for
those guys. But yeah, over and above that.
We we then we have a review of all of the all of the people
and, and you know, there are other criteria as well.
So for example, you know, long term people that have marshalled
that have helped out over a number of years.
You know, we, we like rewarding, we obviously reward that sort of
giving back to the race, you know, so yeah.
But the, the numbers are relatively small for all of
that. And then the remainder of the
people just go into a ballot and come Sunday or Monday, whenever
it happens to probably Monday or Tuesday of next week, we
literally take everybody's SI entry number and we Chuck it
into a random number generator and outcomes the 1st 300 people
and they'll get off at a place. And then how long do they have
to confirm that place? So I think we give them a few a
week or two and then there's a waiting list.
But I'm sure we shut the waiting list off around about the end of
I think it's, if it's the end of January, it's, it's late, you
know, I, I think it's a bit earlier than that actually.
But yeah, we, because obviously you want to give people who've
got a place time to try and get ready and all the rest of it.
And as I said, we we issue a total of 300 invites for the
race knowing full well that unfortunately by by the race day
about 60 or 70 will have pulled out through injury or whatever.
And that gives us a good, good race.
Numbers were about 220 on the day.
And the people that are unsuccessful the first time in
the ballot, did they get a place for people that haven't
confirmed initially? If there's a waiting list, so
we've we've ordered, you know, we've got say we've got 330
people, we issue 300 invites and then 30 go on the waiting list.
And so you know, yeah, basically if, if somebody pulls out, then
301 gets an invite, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
And I think over the last few years it's only been a, you
know, if you're, if you're after about 320 or something like
that, you, you're unlikely to get, you know, and that's why we
close it, you know, it's basically, basically done, you
know. And do you find that the numbers
of entrants keep going up and up every year?
Is this year as far as the most? I think this year I think is
particularly high. I think last year we had around
about 450 at this stage. So I did the vetting then.
But yeah, this year is, yeah, is well, as I say, 504, we probably
top out around about 510 or something like that.
For those people that haven't met the criteria, I do send out
emails and I ask for additional information, you know, So I've
sent out what I've only said at send out about 10 or 15 emails
this year of people that, you know, didn't put any criteria in
whatsoever. I couldn't find them on DUV
statistics or, well, quite frankly.
If you can't fill in the bloody spreadsheet of the entry form, I
sometimes just lose the will to live, quite frankly.
And you don't get a place just by sheer belligerence.
What kind of thing is that actually missing?
Is it just because they don't read it?
I think so, yeah. And that's why I do send an
e-mail, you know, I'll send an e-mail.
Please provide more information. If they haven't got back to me,
then unfortunately that's them just removed from the list.
But as I said, the numbers are very small.
And I try to make the point that to people who you know have
done, you know, unfortunately we do get some people who have done
really stupendous efforts, you know, FKTS and stuff like that
or big long Strava runs or whatever with there's no
doubting that the people could do the race.
And back in the day it would have been enough. 2002 you would
have got a place, but the fact is 470 people have completed a
65K race or more. So unfortunately, if you haven't
then you know why are you special?
It's it's hard. It's you're not, you know,
brutal, but it basically you know you're you know, the
easiest way is just do the race. There's no query, you know
anyway. Do you get people that are
filling in the form that have just done a 10K and think that
they're going to get in? Not anymore, no.
I think, I think the majority of people, there was one or two
this year that are clearly we're just not.
I don't think they were trying it on either.
They hadn't read the criteria or whatever.
But I've gone back to queries and it's just like, Oh no,
sorry, I didn't realize. And therefore we just, we, you
know, I'll send them a well, please looking forward to seeing
you next year and more importantly, looking forward to
seeing you in, in, in Fort William in June of a subsequent
year with when you get your goblet.
You know, and I think, you know, I think people are generally
aware of, you know, as I say, the criteria.
And yes, it's not, it's not that onerous, you know.
Yeah, a lot of international athletes entered.
This year, so this year we've got 26 countries represented
actually very small numbers relatively obviously as we, as
we, as we get across the, as we get off across the different
countries, etcetera. I mean the majority of countries
obviously come from or entries come from the UK and a few, few
more from the States I think. But yeah, we've got, we've got
loads of people from, yeah, also it's Portugal, yeah.
Like I said, 26 different countries are represented this
year. So it's, it's quite a, quite a,
a, a good spread, you know. So it's quite nice seeing those
international runners, albeit as a, because you've got to have
your support crew. I think it's quite challenging
for a, for an international runner to come in and, and you
know, you'll, you'll often see on the West on on the website
coming up next year, you'll see people wanting to help out,
sorry, needing help for support crew, etc.
So that's obviously something to be considered for our
international runners. Yeah.
So yeah, there we go. And you saying that is somewhere
for someone, say, for instance, if they weren't confident enough
to enter the race but wanted to see what it was all about.
Is there a way people can help the international athletes?
Yeah, I think generally and without sort of setting up a
making a rod for our own back, I do know that we, you know, we do
put up notes. I know John Monroe, he'll
probably hate me for this, but he does put out a notification
come January of requesting for support crew for Marshalls,
etcetera. So, yeah.
And otherwise, otherwise it's just a Facebook page that people
will advertise on and say can anybody help me out, you know,
yeah. So that's that's, that's where
people come in. And you've obviously got, you've
done your 5 now, so you get an automatic entry as long as you
meet the criteria. But when you did your first one,
would you meet the criteria for the race now?
Absolutely not. No, no, 100% not no.
I'd literally done a marathon in 2000.
I ran the London Marathon in 2000.
I had done a couple of half marathons that year.
No, I wouldn't meet my own criteria now, but I did go for a
run with Ean Beatty and, and Dario and and John Kennedy.
And it was sort of like, Oh yeah, I think he's all right.
He should be all right. It's all word of mouth and that.
And, and to be fair, most people who enter, as I say, it's no
disrespect to the to the people who do put in entries that say
I've done a really good straw of a run or whatever.
There is no doubt that these people, as I said 1520 years ago
would have got a place. But it's just, we just can't,
you know, it can't be done like that anymore.
And it's, it is what it is, you know.
So, yeah, it is a shame, but yeah.
And I wouldn't make it. I'd be still waiting around.
So my first ultra was the West Island way.
That was the first time I'd run more than 26 miles.
That's nuts that I'll tell you what, that's some accolade.
My first ultra was the West Highland way.
Someone talked me out of having the devil as my first ultra and
I'm glad they did. Indeed, indeed.
So is that is the criteria surely because the the ultra
running world seems to have opened up and it's just that is
getting really popular now, isn't it?
Is it just to kind of streamline that and give the people a
chance? It, it is, I think, I think so
it gives everybody an equal chance.
And it's not who, you know, I mean, in the, in the entry form,
in the entry this year I've got 3 or 4 really close mates that I
would love to see get an entry. But they go into the ballot, you
know, and it makes it fairer. As I say, if you run a 20, if
you run a 65K race, a trial race or more than you, you get a
place in the ballot. And it's not because you had a
run with Keith Hughes or an Beatty or you, you know, you've
got a, you've got a stupid accent or something like that.
It's literally just because, you know, you've done the qualifying
criteria. I think it makes it as fair as
we possibly can, you know? So when I'm 40, there's no
briberies accepted or anything that's into the ballot.
Well, there, you know, Mike was, you know, that was one of the
questions. Obviously you, you pre loaded
and I was thinking that what would be a bribe?
What would be a bribe? Well, I did check Mike's
statistics, right. And, and you know, just because
I thought the question came from Mike.
So I've checked Mike's statistics and we have to check
if the backyard ultras count what his mileage was and if they
were off road. But they're probably OK.
So I'm thinking for you, Mike, it's it's they're OK.
But your bribery would have to be Flora's cakes, mate.
I need, need a bit of Flora's cake action and that would be
that might get you through. But no, it won't.
No, I'm. Sure, it could be arranged.
And As for you, Nikki, I'm not. We haven't met yet, but yeah,
yeah, just do the race, you know, win, win a race.
There's a good one. When one come.
Come first, come first in the devils.
That'll that'll get you, that'll get you noticed.
I I think if if the devil was me and no one else, then I might
have a chance. There you go.
Just one last thing, on the
entry process, one thing I did want to ask was the gender
split. Are you finding there's a lot
more females incident as the yields go on?
I don't think so. I think that, I mean, currently
we've got, as I say 504 entries. We've got 121 females and 383
males. So, yeah, I mean that and I
think consistently it's usually been about, about that mix.
Yeah, yeah. So that's basically that's
basically the split that we've got at the moment.
What does obviously think I I I should really should do the
stats on the finishes and I think you'll find that the of
the females that get a place, how many of them complete I
think would be a higher percentage than the blokes, but
I haven't I only do this end of the of the analysis, not the
other end. That's about four A 4:00 to
1:00. Yeah, yeah.
That's, that's interesting. Have you done any races outside
of Scotland then Keith? Just the Transgran Canaria, I
did that back in 2014, I think 2013, two thousand and 1413 I
think it was. I was, I was dead last and was
65 seconds from ADNF out of 30 hours.
So yeah, that was that was that was a close one.
But yeah, I'm actually going back there in February of next
year to do that one again and see how I get on.
I'm a little bit dubious because I'm 10 years older or 12 years
older and I'm not definitely not fitter.
So yeah, we'll see how that one goes on, you know?
We were going to ask you what's your favorite race, but since
you've only done one other Velotra other than, well,
actually, no. If you've done other ones,
you've done other ones in Scotland.
Yeah, I've done other ones in Scotland, so fling a few times.
I've never done the Devils. I've never never done the
Devils. It's never worked out time, but
I'm doing that next year. Obviously the the the 100
Miller, the DD 99. I've I've done that Jedbra a
couple of times. Oh, no, Jedbra once.
I think that really, really sums it all up.
Oh, Catherine and the Catherine. I've swept the Catherine at
least six or seven times, which I absolutely love.
So if you're asking me what my favorite race would be in
Scotland, it's got to be the Catherine.
Not that I don't love the West Highland way, I do, but just
for, you know, 15 hours of absolutely beautific Perthshire
countryside and rolling hills and bit of mud and it's some
hills and trail and cows and oh, it's just beautiful.
It's absolutely beautiful. I love the Catherine.
And I would say I would probably agree as well That's I've always
said that's probably my favorite race.
So yeah, it's just beautiful, yeah.
It's on my To Do List. Good to hear.
Have you had any other adventures in or with racing?
Not really, no. I guess I mean, just in the
obviously West Island way, just the, just the, that's the double
and the, and the the run up to Inverness, the combined West
Island way. Great Glen, I guess is my only
other two adventures, if you like.
Oh, and the the time me and George wanted to do the Southern
Upland way in winter, we got into 100 miles, but, yeah, that
that didn't happen. Yeah.
Navigation not being my strong point, as people that know me
will will attest. Yeah.
So just those really, really those three things.
Yeah. You, you say just did you just
say West Highland Way and Great Glen Way at the same time?
Yeah, one after the other did that in 2009.
That was the, that was the the goblet that Dario gave me when I
completed it. So, and I was super proud that
my FKT for that lasted up until this year.
And I was even more super proud to have given Paul Hammond, who
who beat my FKT by just shy of four hours.
He did it in 4526, this year and I was so glad to meet him in
Stone Haven in August of this year and give him a, give him a
memento, a goblet, a memento for the, for the occasion because he
did an absolute cracking run. So I was, I was really, but I
was also glad that my my record lasted for 15 years.
I was pretty tough for that. So was that, was that a solo out
and did you just go out and just, I'm saying just like
flippantly, it's obviously a massive achievement.
Did you do that out with an event?
So he started. No, no, I I completed the West
Island way. Then.
Yeah, yeah. Finished the race in 23 or yeah,
just under 24 hours. Had a shower and then I arranged
all my support crew and stuff like that.
We just continued on up the up the Great Glen.
And how did you feel at the end of that?
Broken. Broken.
Yeah. I mean, my feet were, my feet
were absolutely in bits. Yeah, I, you know, I was
basically a death shuffle from about, I don't know, Drummond
Rocket in. Oh, no.
Fort Augustus in. Yeah, it was just, yeah, just a
death March. But yeah.
Yeah, one of those, one of those things, like I said, 15 years
ago, I thought I could do anything, you know?
Yeah. And before I ask a question
about your crew, just on the fly, there's been 561 females
finished the West Highland way. Some of them have multiple times
and 2383 males. So it is about four to one
males. So that's about the same as
entries. Yeah.
So that's interesting. Thanks, Brian.
No, I was a way to ask you West Highland Way.
You obviously need a crew so and you you must have had a few of
them over the years. Yep.
You want to Have you got any stories about them?
Mention them, shout them out. Yeah, I can't.
I can't do it without. Them.
Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, I've, I've had, I've,
I've had support crew, my mate Mike who, who was one of my
chief support crew, Mike Johnson, He he, he helped me out
about, oh, a good number of times.
And I was lucky enough to return the favor this year as, as he
got his first goblet. Yeah.
So it was him. Matt Steiner is another one.
Supported him? No, he supported me a number of
times. And luckily enough a few years
ago I was able to return the favor with him as well.
So, and then, yeah, my daughter supported me once or twice.
She supported me when I did my double, as you know.
And other friends have come, come and gone and, and yeah,
it's been, yeah, it's been, yeah, basically.
I mean, you can't do the race without them.
And yeah, it's, it's, it's great when you've, well, I said in my
first race, you know, Mark Hobbs in the absolute tipping down,
pissing down rain and it was freezing cold.
And there he is ready to go. And you, you perk yourself up.
You go, oh, I can't be, I, I, I know I'm feeling like rub it
like shit. Just just crack on.
Because this person's given up their whole day just to help me
do what I want to do. And they really give you a
boost. And yeah, I couldn't have done,
couldn't have got any of my goblets without any of my
support crew over the years. Yes, there's something else.
After supporting you have any of them went on to get a goblet?
Yeah, so both Mike and Matt have, have, have gone on got got
goblets, which is which has been great.
I mean, Matt I used to work with, you know, he, you know,
he, he got his first goblet a few years ago.
And yeah, once again, I, I ran in from with him, from, from
Glencoe and it was just just magic, absolutely magic.
And then this year Mike, who's one of my best mates, he, he, he
got his goblet and we, we came across Larry Moore without head
torches, just in the climbing, coming past people, you know,
and it's, you know, 2020 odd miles from Glencoe and in the
last 13 and without a head torch.
And it was just just the most amazing experience just to be
out there running with with your mate that you've known 20 odd
years and, and, and sharing that time and, and then obviously
next day seeing them get their goblet.
It's, it's, it's pretty special, you know?
Is your daughter going to get one?
I don't know, not the oldest one, the youngest 1 maybe, but
yeah, it might be a few years off.
She's currently traveling around South Southeast Asia.
So yeah, maybe, maybe one day, but I don't know.
Nah. And the oldest one, Nah, Nah.
She, I think, I think she might help me out again if I can give
you, as long as I don't tell her which what date it is and just
ask her to meet me at the Green Willy or something like that,
you know? And having been on both sides of
it, is there any advice that you would give to people that are
potentially helping to support people?
Yeah, I mean it it it's it's really you've just you've got no
time. You never have any time and you
think you've got even I I supported Richie Cunningham a
few years ago and he he obviously former race winner and
he's running a sub twenty time time frame and you, you so
you're you're constantly running and and been moving and getting
things ready and all the rest of it.
But it doesn't seem to matter. Even with a 27 hour person or a
30 hour person, it doesn't matter.
You don't have any time. So anything you can do to
minimize your faffage so that when your runner comes in,
you're ready to go. You've got the stuff laid out,
you've got socks laid out. You know where the food is.
You know what they're gonna want, You know, you've
anticipated questions. You know, you've prepared a
loving, you've prepared a platter of of goodies to for
them to choose from. You know it's it.
Yeah. Anything you can do to minimize
that sappage and get stuff ready.
Things like, I don't know, get a thermos and boil some water,
keep it in the thermos so that when they're there, you can then
put it into their instant noodles or their cup of soup or
their cup of coffee or whatever. Don't wait for them to get there
to start boiling water up, you know?
So yeah, there's any, as I say, anything you can do to minimize
faffage is, is probably the key, key thing there.
Get and get your runner out the door as soon as like as soon as
you can. Give them a cuddle when they
need it, but a kick in the ass when they when they when they
also need it, you know? Is there any sort of one thing
that you can think of that's been like, oh, I wish I didn't
do that. I could have saved half an hour.
It's faffage. It's it's always faffage.
It's, it's literally it. Well, that first race when I,
when I sat down more than I ran, I think, you know, it's, it's
stopping that, that, that it's minimizing your time at
checkpoints. It's yeah, basically that it's,
yeah, it's just keep moving, keep moving, you know, change on
the run, you know, walk in, walk out.
If you're walking, eating, you eating your cup of soup, you're
doing a 25 minute mile, you know, So, you know, rather than
sitting in your chair, which is doing a 0 minute mile, you know,
Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's minimizing
the sappage, you know? And is that what you would have
fuel wise for something really long distance like the West
Highland waste soup and noodles and.
Yeah, I like, I like real food. I start off with like gels and
stuff like that, like everybody does.
But I like real food. I like mashed potatoes.
I like risotto soup. I like chicken sandwiches if I
can get them. Fruit, oranges, grapes, oranges.
Anybody that knows me runs runs with me knows they're gonna hand
it a a tangerine sometime during the day.
Yeah, it's it that breaks up the flavor of flavor of the gels if
you're having them gives you something else.
Milk is another one. Not the people don't understand
what I like milk, but a a pint of milk is, is, is just just
brilliant and you know, cleans the cleans the pallet gives you
protein. Yeah.
So those are the, those are the, those are my go to, you know,
but real food, not just I don't like the the tailwinds or
anything like that. I've tried them but they just
don't don't work for me, you know?
Yeah, I've had a pint of milk and orange juice within an hour
during a race, and it wasn't pretty, but it didn't taste that
bad. Oh.
You mean combined? The after taste.
Well, I was thinking if that comes back.
No, it did. It did.
Oh no. No.
Moving on, what would you say is your biggest running
achievement? Yeah, I think, I think the, you
know, the, the great Glenn was was won.
And then I guess the the double the year I did the double was as
you said, Mike early starting off this call when me and George
went to went went to do the double the first time.
And we got as far as we we left Fort William at we wanted to get
a sub 24 on the way down. So we left Fort William at must
have been midnight and we made it.
We got as far as it was a really scorching hot day and we got as
far as rail or Denon, so only 27 mile from the end.
And yeah, basically we, we realized we weren't going to
make the race start. So we we bended at that time and
then got to the start, drove to the start and then obviously did
the race the next day. So that or they at 1:00 the next
day. So that ate away at me for a
little while. And then finally on the back in
2015, I ended up doing the doing the double.
So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm really quite happy with that, quite
proud of that. And you know that I DNFIDNFD at
at being glass. I was about an half an hour, 45
minutes after the cut off and that main bastard Johnny Fling
said, Nah, you're done. Quite rightly so.
And but I just continued on anyway with my support crew.
I had my all my own support crew and all, all the rest of it and
ended up finishing in just over. It was 6415 or something like
that. So yeah, I was, I was really
happy to get that one out of the way because yeah, it'd been
eating away at me for a little while.
And I was, I was, I was really chuffed to get that one, get
that one finished. Couldn't do it now though.
But yeah, I'm glad I did it at the time.
Yeah, when you did the when you were on your way down South, I
had parked at Balmaha. I ran to River Denon to meet
you, but you were stopping there.
You guys got a lift to the start.
I ran to the start, but then I obviously had to run back to
Balmaha to get my car. So I ended up doing about 50
miles that day. Brilliant.
Absolutely brilliant. Yeah, Jeez.
So Keith, you keep running all the time and it's amazing, all
these achievements. What keeps you going?
As a sign, it's, it's, it's just, it's just the buzz.
It's just the, the feeling of going for a run out on a hill.
You, you know, I live here, here in Edinburgh, I live, you know,
I can be on the Pentlands within about 20 minutes, half an hour
and you get, get out of the other side of the hills there.
You, you might as well be 500 miles away.
You're out in the middle of nowhere.
You're running along usually with some mates or I mate,
You're talking about stuff that's going on in your head for
the 1st 5 or 10 minutes. And then you're talking about
inconsequential stuff like, you know, the nature of the universe
and, and you know, what are you gonna have for what are you
gonna have for breakfast the next day or other stuff.
You just clear your head and it's just, it's just a great
buzz and I, and yeah, as a sign I wouldn't, I, I, yeah, I, I, I
would hate to, to look at the day when I couldn't actually go
for a run, albeit I know that, you know, I'm slowing down, but
but just having that buzz and that, that feeling of, you know,
just away from it all, you know, and it's not, you know, people
would say you're running away. You're running too.
I think it's a bit of a combination of, of both.
You know, you run away from your day-to-day, but you're running
to what? Towards something a little bit
more peaceful and a little bit more inside yourself, you know?
And yeah, it's. And that feeling of at least
I've had a run this weekend, you know, that's always good, you
know? See, you're wearing the West
Highway T-shirt there. Something else that the West
Highway do is buffs. And I've been told that I have
to ask the question, how many buffs do you think you've got?
Probably only got about. Probably got about 6:00 or 7:00.
I've got the limited edition rainbow one with a stupid peak
cap on it. I've got yeah, I've got a number
of them. I've got the I've got a pirate
one. I've got yeah, I've probably got
six or seven buffs, I think purple 1, blue one.
I know I had a red 1, yellow one.
I've got a bright yellow one as well.
Yeah. So yeah.
What about non W other way? I've got a few.
I've got a original Catherine Trail one.
Bright yellow. I've got one of them as well.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That was where I had tonight.
I've got a Jamie Aaron's climbing all doing all the
Munroes, 282 Munroes buff as well.
That's quite a that's quite a nice one.
Yeah. And what else?
Yeah. I've got any other significant
ones? No, I think that.
I think that'll probably be the summering them up, you know?
And more more important, I'm sure, when you're out in your
run, you say you go out in the Pentlands to clear your head.
What is it you think about when you're running?
Yeah, I don't know. As I say, I think you process
your week or your day or the all the shit that's going on in the
1st 5 or 10 minutes or something like that.
And then, I don't know, it's almost like clearing, clearing
your mind of thought of, of active thought.
If I I'm thinking about the next step or I'm thinking about, oh,
I've got to get up that hill or you're looking at your clock
going, oh, yeah, I've done that's 10 miles in 16 hours.
Jeez, I'm going a bit slow today or, or what?
Yeah. Yeah.
I don't, I don't tend to think about.
Yeah, I don't ever come back from a overrun thinking, oh, I'm
glad I've solved that problem. I just come back feeling
refreshed from it, you know, because I've not had to think an
awful lot. And I don't listen to music
while I run. I, you know, it's not something
I like doing. I just like listening to the,
the sound of the birds or, or, or whatever, you know?
So yeah, I don't tend to think of an awful lot.
Do you have a dream race or any more races on a bucket list
anywhere? Yeah, I was trying to.
I'm just trying to think of this.
No, not really, you know, but I can get a few more West Island
ways under my belt. I'll be happy enough Cat
hopefully sweeping the catering next year and yeah, completion
of Gran Canaria next year. I did one at one time wanted to
the UTMB, but I just don't think I'm ever going to qualify with
the points or the stepping stones or whatever other
criteria they're going to use. So.
And I'm long past of trying to get into something like the bad
water or anything like that. So yeah.
And I think, I think, yeah, the bucket races, yeah, I don't
really have, it's maybe a bit more race tourism, maybe a few
city marathons or something like that.
That my, that my mate Norm, who's another one of my support
crew has done. Oh, he's another guy.
He he, he did a, he did a goblet.
He supported me and he got a goblet a few years later.
That's always good. Yeah.
So no, I don't don't have anything major coming up, you
know. Well, I don't think you can have
too many goblets and I think a second the candle would be nice.
Yeah, I might be a few years off that.
That's at least eight races. So yeah, Yeah.
You never know though, and I don't know what I don't know
what. Well, let's not, let's not
previous presuppose that. Let's not put pressure on Fiona
and and Neil for what you get for 20.
I think it should be 20. I think it should be 25 anyway.
20, Yeah, that's a. Bit easy, is it not?
Go, go, go with the park run. The park run milestones is 25 S,
yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So your dream race is probably the West Highway.
What about somebody you would want to run with?
Is there? Is there somebody who you would
want to run the West Highway with?
It could be alive or not. Yeah, I guess I was thinking
about this and I'd really hoped this year I was up in.
So he's got there's two parts to this answer.
First, who, who would I want to run the West Island way with?
I'd love to run the race with my mate George, George Reed.
Unfortunately he won't be able to do that.
We we do well to have a couple of pints in a in a walk around
up up there in Stone Haven. I'd love to have another have
another run with my with my best mate George.
The other person I, I would have liked to have run with a bit
more would have been Susan, Susan Greg, who, who supported
my mate Matt this year in the West Island way.
And I was, we're all sharing digs up in, in, in Fort William
after the race. And I actually, oddly enough, I
ended up sharing, sharing a room with, with, with Susan up in, in
Fort William. We had a great time after the
race, you know, me and Mike and, and Matt and Susan and Ewan and,
and Michelle who were all our support crews and stuff like
that. Susan had always, we'd, we'd run
a few times here in, in Edinburgh, you know, and she'd
always had the goal of, of running the West Highland Way.
And unfortunately she was, she was sadly taken from us a few
weeks after the West Highland Way.
And so that was that. I would have liked to have, I
would like to send her, get her goblet.
Yeah, that would have been a that would have been a really
fitting thing because we used to wind her up, me and Ian Beattie
and others, just sort of like, come on, Susan Goblet's yours.
Just go and get it, Just go and get it.
And yeah, unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately she was taken well
short of a time. But that would have been.
That would have been a nice one, I think.
Oh. Sorry, we had to.
No, no, no, I, no, no, I don't. I don't think it it's, it is a
damn no, obviously, because you lose somebody special like that.
But the fact that you knew them to begin with and you knew them,
you can remember them and you knew what their goal.
You know, when I when I last saw her, she was, she was in the she
was, she was a happy. She was, she was in a great
space, you know. And yeah, you could tell that,
yeah, it might not have been next year, but maybe the year
after she would have got a goblet.
So, yeah. Anyway, yeah.
Anyway, there we go. Your other answer was George
Reid and I can honestly say he is the he's to blame for getting
me into ultra running. So.
He's got a lot to answer for. Absolute.
Absolutely. I mean both him and Karen, you
know, Karen picked up the the the the Catherine after Dario
died and they both organized the Catherine and the D33 for many
years. And there's probably not an an
ultra runner in Scotland apart from maybe the last three or
four years when the people have obviously moved on and stuff
like that. But prior to that, there's not
an ultra runner in Scotland that didn't know Karen and George.
And, you know, they're still there, yeah.
They're still doing their, their, their up to time
marshalling and, yeah, making sure that we're all, we're all
prim and proper there. So yeah, no love to love to have
a love to have another run with him, but yeah, a Beerus device,
you know? That is a really nice answer.
Thank you so much for sharing that, Keith.
And what is next for Keith? Is it W Holloway or have you got
something else? Yeah, No, I've got Gran Canaria
in hopefully in the end of February, I'll train up for
that. It's, it's a brutal race.
It's only 130 K, but it's, I think it's got about 700 million
kilometers of ascent. So that's it's, yeah, it's
basically on every hill in, in Gran Canaria.
So I'll train up for that the Devils for the first time in my
life. And then, yeah, West Island Way
2025. So, yeah, that should do the
first half of the year. And I think after that I'll,
I'll, I'll get back on the beer. Yeah.
So, yeah. So that's, that's my big, big
three next year. And yeah, obviously the gold
target is is West Highland Way. So have you done a 65 kilometre
off road ultra marathon in the last three years to?
I have indeed yet the more 800 back in 2022, which by the way,
you're talking about good races. That's a cracker.
I mean, it's it's there's no benign, there's no easy 100
miles, but being as it's relatively flat, it's a belter.
It's a good race. Yeah.
You want to get 100 mile in Scotland under your belt?
That's a good one. Yeah.
Beautiful, beautiful scenery. Yeah.
The more 100. Yeah, it's beautiful, Lovely,
lovely neck of the woods. And just because the ultra world
in Scotland is such a small world, I was doing the Murray
Way really race at the time when Keith was doing the 100 Miller.
So we met on course. I must have been delirious mate
it. Was I don't even know which,
probably about 50 miles in. I remember it was an open
grassland and you had to take a weird route round the the grass
you weren't allowed to cross. It Oh yeah, yeah, I.
Remember seeing you anyway. Yeah, yeah, yes.
Jenny Coelia has supported me on that one, so that was lovely as
well. Yeah, and she was supporting
Flora as well as they always do, right, I think, yeah, unless
Nikki's got any other surprise questions to answer, bribes to
put in, I think we're going to call it a day there, so.
Thank you, Keith, for coming on and talking to us.
And I've learned quite a lot tonight about the West Highland
Way race. I'm still not putting my name
into the ballot, but you've. Done the fling, you've done the
Devils, Yeah. I've done the devil this year,
yeah. Mark, you've got to qualify so
you you don't have to put it in for next year, you've got to
qualify for the next 3. So, you know, just do a bit of
training. You'd be fine.
They got the least, you know,
everybody, everybody needs, everybody needs a goblet, you
know, and. This is true and this is what
I've found an ultra running. They make a great sound.
You know you. Know and this is what I've found
an ultra running and everyone's an enabler.
Exactly. Exactly.
Right, we'll call it there, there and say thank you
everybody for listening. Thank you Keith for brilliant
chat and thank you Nikki for being Nikki and goodbye.
Yeah, Thanks guys. Cheers.