1 00:00:21,310 --> 00:00:24,590 Good evening and welcome back to another episode of Run Till 2 00:00:24,590 --> 00:00:28,150 You're Done. Tonight's guest shot on to the 3 00:00:28,150 --> 00:00:32,950 running scene back in 2017 when, according to Nikki, it was his 4 00:00:32,950 --> 00:00:36,310 highest, his biggest running achievement yet. 5 00:00:36,310 --> 00:00:38,350 When he beat me in the car and fail. 6 00:00:39,470 --> 00:00:41,790 If I is his highest achievement then I think he's running for 7 00:00:41,790 --> 00:00:49,800 the wrong reasons, but according to DUV he's done 8 or 9 races so 8 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,840 far and every one of them he's finished first place. 9 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,880 So welcome to the show round Boswood. 10 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,640 I I unfortunately the DNF at the West Island Wade does that 11 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,160 doesn't feature on Duvi. Do need to block my record. 12 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,880 Sorry, it's not a it's definitely not a clean sweep. 13 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:12,000 I have lost races too. Thank you so much for coming on 14 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,680 and joining us. Well, it's a pleasure to be 15 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:18,320 here. Right, Rowan, we'll start off by 16 00:01:18,320 --> 00:01:20,440 the question that we always ask. It's. 17 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:22,480 How did you first get into running? 18 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:29,440 So I as a teenager and young man, maybe between the ages of 19 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:39,160 15 and 20, I was a cyclist. So I was a Rd. cyclist and took 20 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:46,440 it to quite a high level. I competed in Spain at amateur 21 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:52,000 high amateur level and took a gap year and dedicated my life 22 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,560 to that. It's a very different scene and 23 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,280 a very different way of way of life. 24 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,840 But at the age of 19 decided to quit and go to university 25 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,160 instead. So instead of being a semi 26 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,320 professional athlete, just decided that probably a better 27 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:19,640 future, a university and basically just stopped, went 28 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:25,440 cold Turkey and didn't do anything of any sort of physical 29 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:34,560 excursion for 5-10 years maybe. So, yeah, left, went to 30 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:40,760 university, left university, got a job and well, I started doing 31 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:42,760 some hill walking. One of my hill walking friends, 32 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,640 Adam Heffel, who's supported me a couple of times on the West 33 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:53,000 Island way since his brother was also a runner and he was running 34 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:59,720 the the Larry group. So there were a few races I did, 35 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:05,280 I think it must have been 2016, possibly did a an Ember 1/2 36 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,480 marathon and the the Larry grew that year. 37 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:12,880 And there from that got the bug. I think it also coincided with 38 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,960 reading boarding to run. So there was a a bit of a 39 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,920 paradigm shift for me. I guess I'd been without 40 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:24,480 insurance athletics of any sort for 10 years. 41 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,160 And then running came into my life again. 42 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,560 And it's very different to cycling for me. 43 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:34,600 Like, I'm not necessarily running to win, running for to 44 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,960 feed myself, just running for fun really. 45 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,480 So yeah, I guess that's how I got into running maybe 10 years 46 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,840 ago now running the Larrigu, running the Edinburgh half. 47 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:51,560 And yeah, discontinued from there to longer and faster 48 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:56,040 things, I think. And was Edinburgh half your very 49 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,560 first race that you'd entered? Running race. 50 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,760 I think I did a couple of half marathons at university but on 51 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,920 zero training. Edinburgh Half was probably the 52 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,840 one where I did four weeks training maybe and. 53 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,640 Do you remember how you did on that? 54 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:15,680 What? You did. 55 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,120 Was for. That it was one hour 14. 56 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,880 I never done 14. Yeah, I mean, I played football 57 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,040 at the time, so it's not like I was going from nothing. 58 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,400 On 4. Weeks training, maybe 4 weeks. 59 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,440 I think maybe 4 weeks might be a stretch. 60 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,840 So I'm, I'm guessing from that stage when you get, you can't 61 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:43,920 just bang out a time like that for 1/2 marathon and not think 62 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,080 I'm actually quite good at this. Like after that race, did you 63 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,640 think I'm onto something here? You know, I'm quite good at it. 64 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:57,800 I guess from cycling, like I was, like I said, I cycled to a 65 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,360 much higher level than I've ever run at. 66 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:07,240 So I knew I had a relatively decent VO2 Max and big car and 67 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,440 the ability to stay at a threshold pace for quite a long 68 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:11,280 time. I could. 69 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,160 These things you kind of get a feel for. 70 00:05:15,280 --> 00:05:17,520 Like there's no way I could have run more than half a marathon 71 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,200 after running that. Like I didn't have the muscle 72 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,920 endurance to do it, but I knew I had a big car and lungs like 73 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,360 this. Yeah, I guess it it finds you 74 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,080 out pretty quickly in cycling if you don't, so I wasn't that 75 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,640 surprised by it. It hurt, I can tell you that. 76 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,240 It really hurt. And since you retired from the 77 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,080 semi professional, do you still cycle for fun? 78 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,800 No, no, no, no. Can't do it. 79 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,280 Not on the road bike like a mountain bike with friends. 80 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,240 And it's like quite different experience. 81 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,920 Like I, I, I still, I watched the Tour de France for the first 82 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:07,640 time this year since giving up. I still love cycling. 83 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,640 And I think if I was to get into it, you know, it would be yeah. 84 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,720 I, I, you couldn't do it unless you were training 20-30 hours a 85 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:20,240 week and racing every weekend. So I don't really cycle anymore. 86 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:27,000 Hello, cycle my kids to school. We've got the question next with 87 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:35,160 do you have a coach? But I'm going to assume not, but 88 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:41,320 I could be wrong. How's the cycling on you go? 89 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,000 No coach. No coach, no coach. 90 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:51,760 How's the cycling, the training from that LED into how you train 91 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,880 in running? Are you like? 92 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,880 Does that teach you to coach yourself? 93 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:04,000 Yeah, so I, I used to race for a club called Mid Devon Cycling 94 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,480 Club and they were very supportive. 95 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,520 So then they had a lot of, a lot of very good riders, like an old 96 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,240 an Ex Tour de France rider and guys who had competed at 97 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,840 national champs. And I think in cycling it's, 98 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,400 well, I've never really got into the running club scene so much, 99 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,640 haven't had the time. But in cycling, you know, you, 100 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,280 you ride together, you race together, you race as a team. 101 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,440 And they, there's some cyclists there who kind of took me under 102 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,680 their wing and, you know, said taught you everything you need 103 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,200 to know around different heart rate zones and different 104 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,440 training thresholds and what you need to do to, to get better and 105 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,040 get better and how you need to eat, how you need to sleep. 106 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,320 And then, yeah, taking that into running, it is different. 107 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,800 It's slightly different. It's still an aerobic activity, 108 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,200 but then it's much more muscular endurance to, to running and 109 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,040 cycling. That's where, yeah, that's why I 110 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,640 got as I got my basics from cycling. 111 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,880 But then I also, you know, a bit of a data theme. 112 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,680 So I do love to read everything, listening to every podcast going 113 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:14,800 on. Anyone who's got any training 114 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,040 tips and trying to spring it all into one. 115 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:21,560 I, I don't know if you find this, Mike, but you know, I 116 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,760 think with marathon running, there's a very set program you 117 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,040 can go on and it'll make you a good marathon runner. 118 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,440 You could do give that to 10 different people and they would 119 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,159 all react very similarly. Whereas with Ultra running, I 120 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:42,320 think this is still a bit of a blank page on the best way to 121 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,400 train, the best way to take things forward, and everyone's 122 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,640 on a bit of a voyage discovery for themselves, like. 123 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,480 I think it's very, very individual. 124 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:57,920 You can put out the textbook. This is a plan, but that'll only 125 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,400 get you so far. Hard work pays off after that. 126 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:08,120 Yeah, I found personally, I think when I first came in felt 127 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,680 running in particular, I thought it was miles and miles would get 128 00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:16,080 you as far as you'd want to go. But like I've, I've found I 129 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,680 guess through trial and error that I'm actually quite a low 130 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:21,520 mileage, high intensity runner has been much better for me. 131 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:26,040 Maybe run faster, maybe run further, but the yeah, I don't 132 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,200 think you'd find many coaches who would advocate that and not 133 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,640 to running. So do you not train to time on 134 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,480 feet then? Because I know that's a popular 135 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:41,320 training method as well. No, no train to provoke the 136 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,320 response you might get from time on feet. 137 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:48,960 So I do a lot of downhill, running downhill at speed loops 138 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,240 of the same hill, sprinting downhill. 139 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,120 And do you have a favorite hill? Oh, it's tough. 140 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:03,600 I live right next to the Pentlands, so probably Alamea. 141 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,280 It's, it's one right on the South of Edinburgh that you can 142 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,680 run up probably in 10-15 minutes. 143 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:13,040 So it's a it's a great little hill when you get them the. 144 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,040 One right next to the ski center. 145 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,480 Yeah, right next to the one just along the skyline one. 146 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,000 I mean, they're all steep independence. 147 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,760 They're all pretty steep. That's a spicy 1 though, like 148 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,600 that. I think it's because when you go 149 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,000 out, I've done, I've done 2 skylines and I think because 150 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:39,720 it's the first one and for me, because I'm your regular average 151 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:45,400 runner, it makes me want to die when I go and I get to the top 152 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,640 and I think I can't do it anymore. 153 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,520 And then you go down and you see if you get a nice stain, you get 154 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,440 nice views, then you're like oh that's fine. 155 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:54,680 It wasn't that bad. Just. 156 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,400 Got 18 more to go? Yeah, you don't you. 157 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:03,200 We don't think about that. Before move on, you mentioned 158 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,600 that you got into running. When you read Born to Run, do 159 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,160 you barefoot run and do you eat quinoa? 160 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:19,640 I, I have a pair of five those, I use them rarely, probably once 161 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:22,280 a month maybe. Like I like the, I like the 162 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,800 idea, but I mean running any serious distance in the mode and 163 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,240 I think I find quite difficult. I think they're quite good just 164 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,120 to mix up a little bit and get a little bit of foot strength. 165 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,040 And, you know, it's interesting going out with a pair of bare 166 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,880 feet and really concentrating on where you put your feet and can, 167 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:44,680 you know, every now and then, I mean, vegetarian, borderline 168 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,360 vegan. So there's definitely some 169 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,480 quinoa in there for sure. Oh, it's a cheer, isn't it? 170 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,640 It's cheer that. Oh yeah, Cheer seeds. 171 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:52,360 Yeah. Cheer. 172 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,520 Yeah, those two are some but cheer seeds as well. 173 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,080 So off of the back of language weekend, which we'll get onto 174 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,920 more questions about that. People looking at the socials 175 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,240 well have spotted that you were wearing a carnethy vest, as is 176 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,800 that your current club. Yeah, I pretty much, I think 177 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,840 it's the only running club I've ever ever run for. 178 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,320 Yeah, good group of guys. Obviously a lot of fast runners 179 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:26,680 to to look up up to and probably a lot of middle-aged guys with 180 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:32,800 kids like myself who, yeah, like minded friends to go into the 181 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,760 hills with. And as Mike mentioned that the 182 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,360 introduction as well with the DUV record, which is absolutely 183 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,320 phenomenal. I've known when I've done my 184 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,480 research on previous guests, I don't even know about DUV until 185 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,960 Mike told me about it. And we went into yours and I was 186 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,000 looking to see if there was something you hadn't won, which 187 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,360 I was absolutely blown away by. But after our conversation, 188 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,640 you're saying he'd beat Mike on the Catalan. 189 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,720 How did you manage it? Let's hear that story. 190 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,440 I'd say that one was probably pure pure luck. 191 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,800 That was my first ever Ultra I think. 192 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,560 Was it 2017? Oh, the story gets better. 193 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,720 Sorry. Mate. 194 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:30,880 And so I mean like like I said, I had a fair amount of speeds. 195 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:37,960 I was happy enough at marathon distance maybe, but obviously 196 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,440 Mike, I think me might probably like chalk and cheese in terms 197 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,920 of he's got the endurance, I've got the speed. 198 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,000 We run from memory. We run together probably for the 199 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:53,360 1st 20 K to the first checkpoint, possibly, yeah. 200 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,160 Honestly can't remember. Yeah, probably back, back and 201 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,080 forth. And then I think you took a 202 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,120 little bit longer at one of the feeding stations and I just ran 203 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,800 off and I thought, well, this is a bit spicy, needing an 204 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,760 Ultramarathon. And yeah, in the last, like the 205 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:16,240 Catherine, I'm not sure if you'd know, like the last 8K or so, it 206 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,360 goes up, I climb to a coal and then back down. 207 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,320 And I was really feeling it in the last climb and probably 208 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,040 looking behind me every year, every 30 seconds or so to see if 209 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,920 Mike was catching me up. And then, yeah, I would. 210 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,200 I wish someone had filmed my running technique on the way 211 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:39,920 back down with two seed squad quads and, yeah, hobbling down 212 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:41,920 the hill. I think if the race had been two 213 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,360 or three miles longer, Mike would have caught me and 214 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,080 overtaken me. But yeah, I feel very lucky to 215 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,240 have won that one. And then that first 20K was 216 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,560 there any chat? Because I know how chatty mate 217 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,600 can be. It was a little bit. 218 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,800 I do remember there was a little bit, yeah. 219 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:08,760 And moving on to other races, Yeah, you've done 1 W Island way 220 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:15,240 twice, improving times Fling. You were actually slower in the 221 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,200 Fling this year than you have been previously. 222 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,840 How has your training evolved over the years? 223 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,800 It's a good question. I think like the big step change 224 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:36,280 I guess was going from Flame 22, was it 23? 225 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:45,440 I did 715 from memory and around that time I think I was focusing 226 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,720 more on mileage. It's a lot of quite high end 72 227 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:58,000 stuff, probably 100 and 22140 KA week. 228 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,200 So that's to be relatively high mileage. 229 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:06,000 And then after that, yeah, ran the Flame, ran the West Highland 230 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:11,120 way and hadn't really seen a very big improvement. 231 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,640 I think. I think maybe COVID had 232 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:19,160 something to do with that too. I thought putting in the mileage 233 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:25,240 would have got me quite a lot further, whereas it took maybe 6 234 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,600 minutes off my West Island wait time, which, yeah, given the 235 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,120 amount of effort, 6 minutes is nothing over a distance like 236 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,960 that. And the only reason I probably 237 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,200 was 6 minutes quicker was because I knew that I had to be 238 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,160 quicker than my previous time and absolutely sprinted from 239 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:47,760 London down into Fort William. And then after that year my 240 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:54,400 second child was born, so had less time than previously. 241 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,840 And I think it was a bit of a blessing really. 242 00:16:56,840 --> 00:17:00,880 So oh, obviously a blessing having a second child, but a 243 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,960 blessing for my training in terms of what I was doing. 244 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,079 So it really cut down the mileage and was doing two runs a 245 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:13,319 day quite a lot. So one run at lunchtime and then 246 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,599 one run once the kids had gone to bed. 247 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,920 But much higher intensity, really just focusing on quality 248 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,680 and yeah, getting the muscular endurance in that way, I think 249 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,920 it was a fairly big change. So yeah, when you're kind of 250 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,560 time constrained, making those sessions count. 251 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,240 So a little bit of weighted running, a lot of sprinting 252 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,760 downhills, Yeah, and a lot of very high, high end threshold. 253 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,680 There's been the change, yeah. I guess I just carried that on 254 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,480 from last year into this year. I would guess I was hoping for 255 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:57,680 my fling time to be faster, but I guess it's not to be a mess. 256 00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:01,360 It was again, 5 minutes different and I think I was 257 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:05,760 really happy with the time. I maybe could have run a little 258 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,520 bit faster on the day, but the conditions weren't quite as good 259 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,560 and obviously not quite as in quite as good a shape as it was 260 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,960 last year. But it's one of those things 261 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,200 happy with the time. I guess you don't. 262 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,400 You don't need to be faster, you just need to be faster than the 263 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,600 other people. I don't know. 264 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:30,800 I think if I, if I'm honest, like after running 650 last 265 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:36,240 year, like the course record definitely was on my mind. 266 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:44,640 But again, I think it's such a quality time, it's going to be a 267 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,640 difficult one to beat. That was actually going to be my 268 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,880 next question. You took, you know, it's like 269 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,920 with the course record for yourself. 270 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,560 I mean that is, I think the course record I've seen was 641, 271 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,240 which is a phenomenal time. Is there any ways in yourself 272 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,360 that you think or could make time up in this bit or or could 273 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:09,120 just be a bit faster as the I would imagine you've got a lot 274 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,000 going through your head that way where you can beat try and beat 275 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,320 it. I, I don't think there was 276 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,680 anything, There's nothing Dora in the face. 277 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,600 I think it would have just have to have been consistent. 278 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:23,680 Like I think if you look, I had looked at my my times and Rob's 279 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:29,000 times, I think there's the splits are fairly even up to Ben 280 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,840 Glass. And then he just absolutely 281 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,960 motors Ben Glass. Like I think he does say about 282 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,120 10 minutes faster than anyone's done it before. 283 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,240 And yeah, it's absolutely phenomenal. 284 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,880 So I kind of had it in my mind if I was going to do it, I'd 285 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:46,200 have to take, you know, a minute out of every single checkpoint 286 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,960 and then just be satisfied that I was going to lose 5 minutes to 287 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,480 him between Ben Glass and the finish. 288 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,920 But yeah, wasn't to be, not to be. 289 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:56,400 It's a. It's a. 290 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,440 Huge distance. Do you think for yourself that's 291 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,880 just fatigue because by the time you get to Ben Glass, that's not 292 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:08,840 odd miles by that point? Like I, I, I, I don't know Rob 293 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,280 at all, but I think he might be just a bit of a freak, to be 294 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,480 honest, like he is. He is. 295 00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,480 I can testify with that. He is can testify with that. 296 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:21,960 Like I don't think my split times from Ben Glass to the 297 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:26,160 finishing are slow and I'm not and I'm not slowing up. 298 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,680 So like even relative to the rest of the field, I think I'm 299 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,760 you know, I'm putting in the same amount of time in that 300 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,840 final section. So I think it's more Rob 301 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,480 probably, I think could have gone faster than 641. 302 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,040 I mean, he might have just left a bit, a little bit in his legs 303 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,880 towards the end. And yeah, they've got no idea 304 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,960 how he ran it that quick. I mean, I was looking at your 305 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,560 split times from Saturday and I thought, I wonder what, what the 306 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,960 time actually is because I work in kilometers. 307 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,360 I'm not a mile person. And your split going up Conic 308 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,640 Hill was more or less like it was faster than what my tempo is 309 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,880 on the road on flat and it's ABS. 310 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,240 It's unreal like, and I think I'm in the majority. 311 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,360 Well, it's like this is unreal. Like how fast you guys are at 312 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,480 the front and can maintain that pace? 313 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:19,920 Practice. You'll go there. 314 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:27,440 I was chatting to Rob after you had won the race and not, not 315 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,880 that he'd take on his advice, but he says that you should 316 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:35,200 probably go out and do a couple of years, a year, whatever, 317 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:38,520 doing other races and then come back and smash this one because 318 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:39,800 he wants somebody to take the record. 319 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:43,080 Yeah. And I, I, I get that as well. 320 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:48,480 I I'll take on Rob's advice. I might not miss the thing next 321 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:49,480 year. Do I listen to my favorite? 322 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,160 It's my favorite race. But I will take Rob's advice if 323 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,080 if he wants to give me any. And I think he needs someone to 324 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,560 break one of his records, doesn't he? 325 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,760 So he's got a reason to run out, which is in Scotland again. 326 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,160 I. Would also message them. 327 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,080 I sent him a couple of pictures from the finish and this is the 328 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,240 next question. You've done the flying three 329 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,080 times. Did you do all three of them in 330 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,560 alpha flies? Just the last two. 331 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,080 So the first one was in, I can't even remember what. 332 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:22,200 There's a pair of standard trail shoes, but I, I was thinking 333 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,720 about moving over to the Super shoes for a while. 334 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:31,520 And then yeah, last year just committed to it over the winter. 335 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,200 I think I said this year at the finish went on vintage and 336 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:41,000 bought a couple of pairs, but 20 quids and just run in them all 337 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,800 winter, run in the Pentlands a lot up and down the hills and 338 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,400 you get used to running, running in them on really awful terrain. 339 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,280 Like you've got to be careful. I think if you're running kind 340 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,440 of ultra distances and you're not pushing it too hard on the 341 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,480 trails, like it's not, it's not the worst shooter. 342 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,440 It's probably the worst shoot to be in on the lock side, but you 343 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,640 know it's livable. With my track history, I don't 344 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,600 think I'll be pulling on my alpha flies on the Pentalins 345 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,400 anytime soon because that was something they told and a couple 346 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,240 of other people had asked me as well. 347 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,360 They went, how's he still got ankles after that. 348 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,400 I I don't think the well, there's certainly the fling. 349 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,120 It's not as technical like you can run. 350 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,280 You obviously prove that you can run it in super shoes. 351 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,240 I don't, I don't know how much it would benefit. 352 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:39,120 I've never done it, but I, I, I don't think it's too technical, 353 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,920 but the question I was going to ask you was have you thought 354 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,280 about getting the your alpha flies resold with a better grip? 355 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,560 No, I have. I have heard people do it. 356 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,960 I've never actually struggled with the grip. 357 00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:59,240 It's more the stability and like actually being able to turn on 358 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,600 turn on the penny as you need to at some points. 359 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,200 But the grip I've never had that big of issue with. 360 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,440 Yeah, if if it was a a grassy and muddy, of course. 361 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,040 Possibly. Would you have warned them if it 362 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:16,120 was wet? Yeah, yeah, Didn't take any 363 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:18,000 other shoes. I think the first time I ran I 364 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,240 did take a pair of Solomons in the in the bag in case if it in 365 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:26,000 case it was wet. But I've run lock sides up and 366 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,480 down in the pouring rain in them and they're OK. 367 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,840 OK. I I think like on average 368 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,640 they're the better shoot. They'll give you a minute, 369 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,960 minute, minute and a half to to Balmaha and then up block side. 370 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,880 You just have to run within yourself. 371 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,720 And I don't think it's a bad pacing strategy. 372 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,360 And then the end, the last 15 miles, I don't think it really 373 00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:53,640 matters what shoot you're in, you're hurting. 374 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,240 It's probably it's probably not helping very much. 375 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,640 It's not hindering, So what would you do? 376 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,360 For the West Island way, would you continue, would you do the 377 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:09,800 whole of that and? I I did this year, Yeah, Yeah, 378 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,600 I'm actually. Just imagining the guy that sold 379 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,400 you them on vintage and then imagine being that seller the oh 380 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,360 that that shoes just won the flank. 381 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:25,200 I was imagining being the being the shoe and because most of 382 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,240 them are like oh I've worn these for two marathons now. 383 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,200 So their shoes just like run 2 flat pouring marathons and get 384 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,840 sent in the boats and then it finds itself up carnefie or 385 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,320 something like belt get down carnefie. 386 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,480 Have you thought about getting the ultra flies? 387 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,520 I've heard they're not very bouncy. 388 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,800 I've never never invested, but I think it's not going to be like 389 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,320 a Diet Coke, wouldn't it? It wouldn't be. 390 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,960 It wouldn't be the full thing. Well, I'm not going to lie, I'm 391 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:54,360 tempted. Yeah. 392 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,480 Yeah, when this ankle's better. Although I can now imagine my 393 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,480 physio and my coach going you there. 394 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,560 So you just went over your ankle and now you want to go in a shoe 395 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,560 that Raven's just said you have to be able to turn you. 396 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,600 It's not good for your ankles. Yeah, I mean, I've had a couple 397 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,320 of hairy moments, but my ankles are quite strong now. 398 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:26,160 And Nikki, yours is not so. It's only had one injury which 399 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,280 quite a lot of mileage and these legs, God willing someone 400 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,400 doesn't do it before then. The next question that we've got 401 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,800 on the list as it's a popular listener question. 402 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,680 It's a lot that I get asked if we get any guests on like 403 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,560 yourself. How do you manage to navigate 404 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,360 lock side so quickly and is there any tips or advice for 405 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:51,200 people that do want to try and get up faster time? 406 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:57,280 I think for me, the for me the lock side is, is kind of you're 407 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,920 right on the edge and you're going up and over the edge for 408 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,240 30 seconds a minute and then you're coming back. 409 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,480 So I mean, the only way I've heard it described is kind of 410 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,320 like a lactic shuttle. So you have to be OK in a bit of 411 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,640 pain for 30 seconds, but then recover pretty quickly in 412 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:22,400 between. So kind of efforts that short 413 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,760 sharp efforts, but not slowing down entirely between them. 414 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:33,120 So kind of threshold runs with rolling sections in I think will 415 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,960 stand you in good stead. A lot of time doing technical 416 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,880 stuff as well. I'm always in the mountains. 417 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,440 Like the lock side is not that technical if you if you spend a 418 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,080 lot of time. Well, I'm not lucky enough to go 419 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,120 in the Cairngorms much anymore, but you know, the patterns, 420 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:52,320 there's still some fairly technical sections up there. 421 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,160 So just getting used to descending at speed. 422 00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:00,320 And yeah, I think I said you've falling with style around a lot 423 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,680 of the corners, a lot off a lot of the boulders. 424 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,800 You know, I think this is. Special awareness would have to 425 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,520 be quite good as well because there's a couple of bits that 426 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,600 when I make it, I bang my head a couple of times. 427 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,120 I mean, special awareness is rubbish anyway, but that was us 428 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:20,120 literally hiking it. So the I take it you I don't 429 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,200 even know if you know you do it, but do you see the trees coming 430 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,760 out of the side that anything and you just manage to dock or? 431 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,320 You see them, you see them. I think it's also like learning 432 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:37,360 to relax into it, like not be, not worry about the splits, just 433 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,440 just run I guess and just let your subconscious take over 434 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,000 looking a few metres ahead. And yeah, being comfortable and 435 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,640 comfortable on that kind of ground to do it. 436 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,320 So it is practice and a little bit of, I wouldn't say 437 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:55,520 fearlessness. It's not going to. 438 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:57,760 I don't think you're going to fall in a lock unless you do 439 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,040 something really, really bad. But, you know, like if you take 440 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,240 a few risks here and there of jumping, copping, cutting 441 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,000 corners, Yeah, for practice. And I'm not about that. 442 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,440 I don't mean you have to. Thanks for answering that, that 443 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,240 was a really good. A mile away, a. 444 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,080 Bit of advice that you gave. Yourself. 445 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,200 On. The VU. 446 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,080 VI did notice that you've not ran the devil that you any 447 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:25,400 desires to do. That as in possibly I'm not lots 448 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,280 of shorts. I'm not acceleration of with 449 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:31,280 that section of the West Island away as block siding up to 450 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,480 Tindrum because it doesn't suit my running style quite as well. 451 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:40,520 And most memories I have are with 50 miles in your legs as a 452 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:47,920 minimum and struggling up Jelly Babyhill up across Ranak Mall 453 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,800 and yeah down from not leaving enough up back up again like the 454 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,160 When I think about them, I just think of a running pain really. 455 00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:04,040 So maybe running in the devil might be eye opening and running 456 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,280 with fresh legs rather than painful quads. 457 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,400 Possibly. Possibly. 458 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,280 But like, I don't enjoy it as much as the flames so I was glad 459 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,480 to say. That the Fiona Rennie who's done 460 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,880 West Highland Way 19 times, she ran the Devil for the first time 461 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,520 this year and asked her how she found it though the because 462 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,360 she's had. I was going to say not the same 463 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,840 experience as yourself because you have very different races, 464 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,120 but Fiona's been on a lot more times than yourself. 465 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,480 Yeah. And she said that was really 466 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,760 refreshing and lovely to run it with fresh legs because her 467 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,640 experience was totally different. 468 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,080 She says normally in that section, like you've just said 469 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,920 there, you're in a world of pain and it's a trudge, you know, to 470 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,760 get up the Devil's Staircase, whereas you start at Tain Drum 471 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,880 and that's, you know, it's almost as all you've done the 472 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,200 1st 53 miles and you've had a rest. 473 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,920 Yeah, Yeah. And I think that, well, it's not 474 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,920 quite as pretty as well. I think the lockside is that 475 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,280 that tail and it's got a special place in my heart. 476 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,920 So maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe now it's in April and 477 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:18,520 probably be more likely now it's in April. 478 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,160 Like, I think at the start of the season it's more, yeah, it's 479 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,320 easier to prepare for and you know, you haven't gone through a 480 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,640 whole season tired at the back end, so. 481 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,120 And there's just a a short one as well. 482 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:38,840 Yeah, just 4045, yeah. 42 I think. 483 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,080 There's also something to aim for to try and win that Triple 484 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:48,600 Crown. All right, lean on to you said 485 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:56,000 you were almost vegan. What do you how do you balance 486 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,000 your day-to-day diet? How do you fuel for races? 487 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:05,680 How is things like the the fling where you've got drop bags 488 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,280 different from West Island way that you've got the support 489 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,200 crew? Lots, lots of questions. 490 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,760 Day, day-to-day, I, I Steve, I can pretty regular guy. 491 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:24,080 I was vegan for three maybe four years kind of from 20, 2018 492 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,560 until post COVID and then I started going out and eating at 493 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,120 restaurants again and found it very difficult not to be vegan. 494 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:37,480 But I'm vegan at home so I only cook non dairy for myself at 495 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,520 home. Is that for ethical or health 496 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,200 reasons or? Environmental and ethical 497 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,960 reasons, Yeah, I got probably mostly for environmental when I 498 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,560 first did it. And then the more you read 499 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,880 around veganism and the dairy industry, I guess the more it 500 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:05,320 was for the ethical reasons. But I'm an ethical hypocrite now 501 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:11,000 because I, yeah, definitely love eating dairy outside of the 502 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,240 house. So maybe you should remove the 503 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,160 the V sign from my Strava profile. 504 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:23,800 But the ISA had a fairly regular diet, really, nothing special. 505 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:29,440 Lots of soup when I'm working from home and lots of pasta when 506 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,600 I'm not, when I'm preparing for a race. 507 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,560 Yeah, carbo loads like a by eating like a small child and to 508 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:42,120 see breakfast cereal for breakfast, lunch and and snacks. 509 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,880 Have to buy them in because they're obviously like crack to 510 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,480 my small children and I have to hide them when they're not 511 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,200 there. But yeah, to see lots and lots 512 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,320 of breakfast cereal, preparing carbo loading. 513 00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:01,120 And on race day try to eat as many solids as I can. 514 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,320 But usually after three hours, well, if I'm running at the same 515 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:13,440 place, probably 3 hours, I'd move over to jails and yeah, 516 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,400 West Highland way place, probably I could last 8 hours 517 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,880 mostly on, well, probably about 50% solids, 50% shells. 518 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,280 And in terms of gel, I'll do homemade gels. 519 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:32,199 I think I make up quite watery fructose glucose mix with some 520 00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:36,440 caffeine in. So try and get 100 grams of 521 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,480 carbs an hour, but have that as my platinum goal. 522 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,920 Yeah. And then yeah, towards the back 523 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,920 end of a race, be happy enough getting 60. 524 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,280 And between the West Highland Way and the Flying, they're both 525 00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,600 terrible start times, the West Highland Way being at 1:00 in 526 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,920 the morning and the flying being at 6:00 in the morning. 527 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,400 How soon do you eat before both? Before you start? 528 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,240 Three hours before both. So yeah, three hours. 529 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:06,560 Yeah. I don't think the thing's too 530 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,600 bad. The West Island way is awful. 531 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,960 It's the worst. It's the worst time to start a 532 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,920 race. I know, I know. 533 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,200 I understand why, but almost any other time I think you could 534 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,320 choose will be better. I don't even know when I think 535 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,280 3:00 in the morning to eat something. 536 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,200 I'll be getting up at 3 and go back to my bed. 537 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,360 I was up at 3. Yeah, I was up at 3:00. 538 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,880 And then you had breakfast and then I drove across to the start 539 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,360 line. So it was, I was up at 3 anyway. 540 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,480 But I think the West Island way, because it's so it's always 541 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,400 like, I don't know anyone who would run it as a, you know, a 542 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,880 secondary race in their calendar. 543 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:47,000 There's a lot of nerves and energy the whole day and I've 544 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,560 never been able to sleep before it. 545 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,680 But you get to 1:00 in the morning and like your the whole 546 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,000 system is just trying to shut down and go to sleep and you're 547 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,280 knackered and then you start running. 548 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,640 And then just off at the back of sorry Mike with us that like 549 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,400 after the back of the diet and that we're back at talking about 550 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,080 the West Highland way. Something I've often thought is 551 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,520 the speedy runners like yourself, you're finishing on 552 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:18,720 the Saturday early afternoon. What do you make of the runners 553 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,040 that are finishing Saturday night and even Sunday morning? 554 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,240 I. Mean yeah. 555 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:30,960 So this year in particular, when I DNFDI was lying in Fort 556 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,400 William at 2:00 in the morning and there was a massive 557 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,240 thunderstorm. I was just thinking, you know, 558 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,280 people who've been out had the same as me, been up all day, run 559 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,120 all night, run all day, run all night, and then this 560 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,320 thunderstorm and I just thought, you know, it's a, it's a 561 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,400 different world, isn't it? It really is a different world. 562 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,720 I it's a different, I guess it's, it's a different energy 563 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:56,080 system. It's a different mentality. 564 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,240 You can't approach it how I would approach the last silent 565 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:04,520 way. Like I, I know that I can, I can 566 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,160 eat for 10 hours and then it's jails. 567 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,600 But like if I'm running for, I can't run for 20 hours because I 568 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,000 can't live off jails for 20 hours. 569 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,520 So it's very different. I mean, it's amazing. 570 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:17,760 It's incredible that I can do it. 571 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,880 The guy, I was crew and he was on the Davra when that happened 572 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,640 and thankfully my crew and duties were done. 573 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,960 So I was comfortable in the Airbnb on the couch. 574 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,800 And but one of the other crew, the support runners sent us a 575 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,800 WhatsApp into the group chat and poor Steve, he was that tired. 576 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,760 The sketch has support runner was he was having a ball. 577 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,720 He was like, oh, it's thundering and lightning and we're all 578 00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:48,800 going to die. And Steve, he held them and 579 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:53,800 speed up at that point. I was, I, I was sleeping in my 580 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:58,280 van in for William and I didn't hear a thing so. 581 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,440 Well, I'll I'm not shy, as you both know. 582 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,480 So see, if I ever run the West Highland Way and you want to run 583 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,560 that section at that time of night, then I'm happy for you to 584 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,120 crew me. It's. 585 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:18,080 A deal if you're wrong. Hey, you said about different 586 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,600 pieces for West Ham Way versus Fling, I've not looked, but how 587 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:29,440 did your time compare or over the years Fling to Tyndrum 588 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,520 versus West Ham Way, what what kind of time were you there? 589 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:42,760 I think so. 20/20/20 I reckon if it was 23 or 24 when I hit it 590 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,880 first time the thing first time I think I was West Highland way 591 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:58,280 to optotyre maybe 74735 ish and then Flynn was 715 so probably 592 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,560 about a bit like 1/2 an hour delta maybe. 593 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,680 Yeah. And that that was conscious, 594 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,320 that was you slowing down so that you could take the load. 595 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:11,520 Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, like the all 596 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,760 basically all I think about in the West Island way is not 597 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,400 running too fast. Yeah. 598 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,960 It's been a long hours, yeah. It's been a long time since I've 599 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,880 done the Fling, but it's always been as a training run for the 600 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,280 West Highland Way, so I've done it at the pace that I would have 601 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:27,480 been doing the West Highland Way at. 602 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:34,560 Yeah, I think there's definitely a a different pace for me that 603 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,080 like I, I finished the thing this year and I thought I could 604 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,840 have run further. Definitely the first year I did 605 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:46,040 it, even though I went one won and run the West End away before 606 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,200 I was just petrified about the distance that time. 607 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,080 Maybe this year not as scared about the distance I probably 608 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:57,320 should have been. Right, the next question, 609 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,880 despite what Nikki says, your your biggest running achievement 610 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,920 is just isn't just beating me. What? 611 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,600 What is your biggest running achievement? 612 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:13,520 Imagine if that is the. I think that you need to hang up 613 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,760 your shoes and do something else. 614 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:22,440 Go back to cycling. I, I think probably my biggest 615 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,440 running achievement, the one I'm most proud of, is probably my 616 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:30,880 first W ironing way. I think it was, it was fairly 617 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,120 out of the blue as in like I think I've done a couple of 618 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:40,120 ultra marathons before, but you know, nothing big as West 619 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,000 Highland way is. You know, it's a very special 620 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,480 race. It's something that I'd wanted 621 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:48,280 to run for a very long time. And yeah, I think before I'd run 622 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,720 it, I'd never even crossed my mind that I could run it that 623 00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:54,160 fast. So I think that was probably, 624 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,120 that's probably the most proud I've ever been of anything. 625 00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:02,440 And you know, the best runners I've had in terms of like actual 626 00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,400 fast times, like the flame last year as well. 627 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,160 I'm very proud of that time. I think I would kind of visit 628 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,480 step change in my running performance, but yeah, probably 629 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,000 West Island Way 2019 was the the proudest. 630 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,520 And you transitioned from cycling to running. 631 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,360 Why? Why running? 632 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:30,560 Why not anything else? They are quite similar sports as 633 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:36,280 in it's. I'd say cycling is a, is a 634 00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,200 biggest spectrum of energy systems that you use. 635 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,640 You know, it's more sprinting, you have to have a lot of 636 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,560 aerobic fitness, but there's also sprinting there. 637 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,680 Running, I guess because I, I love being in the hills. 638 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,720 I couldn't go back to cycling. I just can't do it. 639 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,800 So very similar. They are quite similar sports. 640 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,560 I can just give you that Peace of Mind being out. 641 00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,760 And has your wife changed from when you started running to no? 642 00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:07,960 Probably. I think when I started running I 643 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,920 was just doing it for fun. I'd run it, run a race for some 644 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:19,480 friends and and see how it goes. And now like I would run to 645 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,920 clear my head to go on a little adventure at lunchtime and get 646 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,280 up in the hills and come back and feel better for it. 647 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,720 Be my reason for running now, whereas then it was probably 648 00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:33,840 just for fun. And you say about the hill walk 649 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,960 and you mentioned that really briefly earlier on. 650 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,920 Have you completed all the Monroes? 651 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:46,960 No, I think I got to about under 100, but having two kids is 652 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,120 definitely put up. I stopped that. 653 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,720 But I'm sure, I'm not sure. I'm not sure that I can't 654 00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:55,440 convince them to to walk them with me. 655 00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:00,240 But when that that's the dream, that's the dream is to get them 656 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,200 into hill walking too. I think if you start them early 657 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,560 enough then you know you probably could. 658 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,400 That took matter. Just stop Conic Hill before I 659 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,440 even discovered this world. I didn't even know that was part 660 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:17,240 of the West Highland Way. And I found that snacks help 661 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:18,560 bring them. Lost and. 662 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,560 That's don't be as mean as me. I told them there was a 663 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:30,840 McDonald's at the top. I took my daughter up Nevis when 664 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,920 she was 5 and M&M's every half mile. 665 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,720 You can have another one, you can have another one. 666 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,480 Didn't complain once. So she. 667 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,680 She managed. It she did, yeah. 668 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,680 The only time I picked her up was some of the steps are too 669 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:49,400 high for her at that age. So yeah, bribery is the way to 670 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:49,760 go. I've got. 671 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:51,920 A future ultra on her there, Mike, I'm pretty sure. 672 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:54,320 Yeah, you can't have too. Many. 673 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,800 Snacks when you pay the kids, even for yourself, you can't 674 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,200 have too many snacks when it's a. 675 00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:02,400 Hike. As you say, it's just you're 676 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:08,800 going out and enjoying that. Yeah, I'll take a bag, take a 677 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:14,720 bag of M and Ms. So when you're. Out running. 678 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,000 Your kids aren't with you yet, we'll say. 679 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,280 Yet. What is it you're thinking 680 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,880 about? That's a really difficult one. 681 00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:28,320 I do get asked this quite a lot and I think maybe the standard 682 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:29,960 answer will be everything and nothing. 683 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,200 At the same time. I feel like like if I'm not out 684 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,520 running, OK, going to be a bit of a bag of worries and it can 685 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,440 all be a bit much. You know, your thoughts. 686 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,320 I'm particularly straight and ironed out and I'll go for a run 687 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:49,000 and you know, I can just take one of my problems at a time and 688 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,840 think about it and break it down into little pieces and move on. 689 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,880 I guess generally, a lot of the time we'd be thinking about what 690 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,800 I'm going to do next, what I'm going to do this afternoon, my 691 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:07,160 work, the kids, everything. But I think there's definitely a 692 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,160 different thought process that goes on when I'm running. 693 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,520 Much less chaotic and much more relaxed. 694 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,080 But do listen, listen, listen to music as well. 695 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,160 Podcasts from dancing, they've everything got a very, very 696 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,560 broad taste. Just whatever mood. 697 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:32,680 Yeah, whatever mood takes me. If I'm racing it's mostly like 698 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:36,040 cheesy dance music, but. Oh, fantastic. 699 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,280 Yeah, Bengal boys. Maybe not quite, actually. 700 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:44,680 Was he Nah WT WT? That kind of it. 701 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,080 Is as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 702 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,360 I think it's quite a big part of it for me, just getting in the 703 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:56,320 zone and kind of setting, setting the tone of how I should 704 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,560 be feeling in the base by the music you're listening to as 705 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,360 well. And do you always have a start 706 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,560 song? No, not always the same, but 707 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:10,240 like, generally we start with reggae and then move on, yeah. 708 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,720 Amazing. So in the future, do you have a 709 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,240 dream or bucket list dress that you've got this? 710 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,280 I would love to do one day would be the Everest Marathon. 711 00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:29,280 So I've been to that area. So like the Sagamatha National 712 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,920 Park and it's yeah, it's incredible. 713 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,800 I mean, it's like nothing you ever see anywhere else. 714 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:39,040 And it's, it's just a spectacular. 715 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:44,000 Place to be in. Incredible hills, mountains, as 716 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,720 you can imagine. So there's a, I think there's an 717 00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:51,920 ultra that that leaves that is around there, but there's also 718 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:58,720 like a, a marathon that goes from base camp down to one of 719 00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:05,240 the towns 42 kilometers away or thereabouts, which I think it 720 00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:09,800 would be incredible to run. I would imagine as well you'd 721 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,160 have to go and. Acclimatize to that for a fair 722 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,400 bit beforehand, wouldn't you? Yeah, I think so, yeah. 723 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,720 Yeah. I think when? 724 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,800 We were there. Maybe we were there for me and 725 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,800 my wife. We were there for three weeks 726 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,520 and you can, yeah, you can go up like 200 and 5300 meters a day. 727 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,200 And yeah, running. I wasn't as I wasn't very. 728 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,800 Fit when I was there I. Think I went before I was. 729 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,920 A proper runner, but when? You get to about 5000 meters 730 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:48,640 like running is near impossible. And do you have? 731 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,880 Any projects or events or volunteer incidents coming up at 732 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,120 all? Do you volunteer at many events? 733 00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,440 I don't know I should do but. I'm a bit selfish isn't? 734 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,840 Don't really get to help too many races as you can probably 735 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:08,400 see from my DDUV. So volunteering, I think when I 736 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:13,000 will start doing it, When, when I get the time in terms of it, 737 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,920 yeah, I'll propel you now. Steve Hollins, Eden. 738 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,880 It's probably just as exhausting as running just. 739 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,520 With the extension it's. It is fun. 740 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,560 It's a lot of fun doing it, especially ultras and all the 741 00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:30,240 drama Queens finishing their. Races and needing, needing their 742 00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:34,200 massages and all their support. Oh, I can imagine. 743 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:35,080 Yeah. Yeah. 744 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,280 So one of the other questions that we like. 745 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:45,080 To ask on this podcast is is there someone that you would 746 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,480 like to run with? And that could be anyone. 747 00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,640 This is like a bucket list dream. 748 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,080 They could be alive or no or fictional or not. 749 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:58,360 If you had to choose someone to go out on a run with, who would 750 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,200 it be? But if it was a run, it'd have 751 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:02,080 to. Be Kip Jogi. 752 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,560 I think the guy is a bit of a legend, even if it's marathon 753 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,160 running and it's there, maybe not quite as cool. 754 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:11,640 As trail running I wouldn't tell. 755 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:16,080 Him that obviously when we run our run, but like I think doing 756 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,720 what he's done and you know. Obviously the breaking too, but 757 00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:23,480 all. His marathon achievements like 758 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,440 he is the greatest runner of all time, so if it was a run it 759 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,400 would be him. That's a good. 760 00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,280 Answer. I wonder what his chat would be. 761 00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,640 Like as well or if it would just be complete focus pure business. 762 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:39,440 Let's show you this slow ultra runner. 763 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:45,080 What running's really about, South Mike? 764 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:46,840 Is there anything else you want to ask? 765 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:53,040 Before where app is up, yes. He used to be a cyclist and your 766 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:57,480 favorite part of the West Island Way is along lock side and 767 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:00,840 you're obviously a runner because that's. 768 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,240 Why you're here we're. Talking to you? 769 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:07,280 Does triathlons interest you? No. 770 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:12,760 No. I I can't, I can swim, obviously 771 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:14,200 I wouldn't. If I fell out of a boat, I 772 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,640 wouldn't drown. So if you've held the lock side, 773 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,600 so the the way. That somebody's going to beat 774 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,680 you is push you into the lock. That would be it. 775 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,360 But like swimming? Has absolutely no interest to 776 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,600 me. A duathlon. 777 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,360 I would definitely do a duathlon and I think so. 778 00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:40,640 I had the Highland Cross, Yeah, I think would be an interesting. 779 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:45,760 Race to to. Run to cycle, but that would 780 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,040 mean you'd. Have to do some cycle training 781 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,720 again. So not Kelvin. 782 00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:51,160 Anytime soon? No. 783 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,360 No, I'd. I'd still be, I'd be swimming 784 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:55,880 still when everyone else would have finished. 785 00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:00,200 I'd be doggy paddling. Do you think that? 786 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,400 Something I've thought about but never actually done, but doing 787 00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:13,720 cycling in recovery days just to get your aerobic fitness going, 788 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,120 do you think it would be beneficial? 789 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,240 Yeah, I think if you have the time. 790 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,000 But in terms of? Aerobic development, I think. 791 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,720 Cyclists. Are quite a long way ahead of 792 00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:30,120 runners in terms of like the hours they put in on the bike. 793 00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:37,840 Because you can, if you have the time and you work careful with 794 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,000 it. I think it would definitely add 795 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,960 something. I don't know how much it would 796 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,000 have with ultras, but definitely with marathons, I think it would 797 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,200 take minutes off your time. I think with ultras, because it 798 00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,200 is, you know, I think it's a lot. 799 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,520 More about fueling and. Stretch and strength at the end 800 00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,640 of the day like you need a certain amount of speed, but 801 00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:01,880 it's more how robust your your body is about keeping your speed 802 00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,280 up. Towards the end it might not be 803 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,720 quite as helpful the marathons. I think anything but a marathon 804 00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:11,160 it would really help. You tempted, Michael. 805 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:13,400 Sorry. You tempted? 806 00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,880 What do you do it? I've thought about it. 807 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:22,800 I've got a. Turbo trainer but I've not I. 808 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,960 Have cycled in the past. But for fun, I've never raced. 809 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:33,240 It's yeah, it's it's there. It's not not not something. 810 00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:35,280 That I actively. Partaking. 811 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:42,480 Yeah, I think just because when I was. 18 I was doing 2-3 hours 812 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,840 a day. It's the kind of hours that you 813 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,840 you couldn't really do running or you can, but I don't think 814 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,640 you could do them at the same heart rate and the same 815 00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,760 intensity. So I do think it. 816 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,400 Does develop your? Lungs and heart a bit better 817 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,240 than running. Would that have been on a 818 00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:03,640 static? Bike or were you just cycling 819 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,720 out on the roads just for two or three hours? 820 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,400 Yeah, I'm like AI can't. I can't. 821 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,480 Stand doing anything indoors like I'm I'm an outdoors, 822 00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:17,360 outdoors boy, Ferrell trying out question. 823 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,440 Have you had? Any injuries over the years? 824 00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:28,040 Not since. 20 not since. What year did we? 825 00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:32,720 Race to the Katherine 20/17/2017 I did the Katherine. 826 00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:36,160 And then I did the. Larry Crew a month later and did 827 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:40,080 my IT band in it on the Larry Crew and that was the last 828 00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:45,760 running injury I've had. Embarrassing knee injuries. 829 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:51,280 Chasing children around. Bending. 830 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:52,880 And picking up small children but not running. 831 00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:55,800 What do you think? Sort of. 832 00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,840 Changed why? Why you're not getting ITB 833 00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,960 problems now, particularly when you're running in carbon shoes. 834 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:06,680 I think that was probably I think. 835 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:08,360 So when I. Got there. 836 00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,400 I didn't after 2017. I didn't do another ultra until 837 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:18,760 2019 and so built up the mileage quite gradually after that. 838 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:21,640 I think that's right. Maybe I did one in 2018. 839 00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,000 Maybe I did the I. Don't move to. 840 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,400 Glasgow, I can't remember, but just being a bit more careful 841 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:33,280 about mileage and being a bit racing in those kind of 842 00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:34,680 distances a little bit less frequently. 843 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,760 I think what did it at the time was, you know, an ultra followed 844 00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:43,720 by a marathon, a heavy marathon just under a month afterwards. 845 00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:48,120 It wasn't really the time between to recover. 846 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,240 I think maybe if I I could maybe do it now if I wanted, but like 847 00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:55,920 I said, I I had to go pretty deep into the plane cave to to 848 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,800 get that Catherine in time. So I think if I pushed it a 849 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,400 little. Bit less might. 850 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,200 Have been OK? Have you done a road marathon? 851 00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:13,160 Yeah, I think I did one in 20. 16 maybe think yes I did did the 852 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:20,840 to go back. Maybe like I I I'd be interested 853 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:21,600 to. See what it would be? 854 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:24,240 But like, a bit boring really, isn't it? 855 00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,360 I don't know because I swore. I would never do another 856 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:32,080 marathon again after Edinburgh. Yeah, and I haven't because I 857 00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:36,080 went on to ultras. But since doing this with Mike, 858 00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,880 a few people have mentioned Loch Ness. 859 00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:43,360 Yeah, and it's actually came back on to my radar and I fancy 860 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:44,920 that one. And Dublin. 861 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,360 Dublin Marathon looks a really good one too. 862 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,160 What's good about Dublin, the course or the city? 863 00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,120 Or the I think it's just the vibe from it. 864 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,200 I hear really, really good things. 865 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,360 About that? Well, at the time of recording. 866 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,000 There's Thursday. Loch Ness is this weekend. 867 00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:09,240 Yeah, there we go. There entry still open, but 868 00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:10,480 you're actually. With me. 869 00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,400 That would be. Interesting the week after the 870 00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,520 bling. Yeah, are the are the. 871 00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,160 Alpha flies dry. They're dry, but they they. 872 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,680 I kicked a few stones so I don't think they'd probably be good 873 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:26,880 for another ultra, but maybe not another Rd. marathon. 874 00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,040 But yeah, I mean this, this doogie, doogie. 875 00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:33,800 Salman was going to be running the flame this year. 876 00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:36,920 That's what that would have been interesting to see what I think 877 00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:41,640 he's like a 217 ish marathoner. Would have been interesting to 878 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,120 see what he could have done. There's always. 879 00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:47,000 Talk of like. What? 880 00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:51,640 What would happen if Kenyans or a fast marathoner came over? 881 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:54,920 But what? What do you think? 882 00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:57,120 Well. There's so used to Rd. 883 00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:01,440 That although I said earlier that the West Hadley Way is not 884 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,360 technical, it's not flat. So it's. 885 00:57:05,720 --> 00:57:08,840 Yeah, it'd be interesting. Yeah, they would be. 886 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:11,120 They would be fast, but it would slow them down. 887 00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,360 Yeah, I think they'd be good up to about. 50 miles. 888 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:18,720 And then, yeah, my struggle. I don't know, I'd love. 889 00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,440 To see the Devil's staircase, go nap. 890 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:25,040 But then if you were. Going to be doing. 891 00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,680 A50 mile race, you would train for it, so they would be used to 892 00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,560 it. So yeah, it would be 893 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:32,880 interesting. But then I think the reason they 894 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,800 don't do it is because there's no money in it. 895 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:40,080 And as great a runner as they are, they're doing it for the 896 00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,280 money because it is one of the most lucrative things that they 897 00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:46,640 can do in their societies. So, yeah, yeah. 898 00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:52,040 Can they do, comrades? Comrades. 899 00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,040 The one in South Africa, The double marathon down there? 900 00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,640 Yeah, Fast, I think, I think. There's decent money in it, 901 00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,360 isn't there? Yeah, there probably is. 902 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:01,080 Yeah. Yeah. 903 00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,120 But I. Think one more off the cuff 904 00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:07,440 question. As well that I have is I've done 905 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,400 Lakeland. No, I was. 906 00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:11,600 I was. I was. 907 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,760 I did. Fancy it And I was going to 908 00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:19,280 enter and then yeah, I think entry is open for about 3 days 909 00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:24,560 so I'm not entering. I think they do a. 910 00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,680 Charity Place. Where you've got to raise it 911 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,800 used to be you had to raise £100 plus you pay your entry fee. 912 00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:36,720 So it's an option, yeah. I would like to go raise down at 913 00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:40,160 the lakes at some point, maybe late, late in the day as well, 914 00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,120 but I think that's in a couple of weeks. 915 00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:43,360 So I won't be doing that one either. 916 00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:47,560 So the final question that we do. 917 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,200 Have is what? Is next for your running wise. 918 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,520 I haven't. Thought that far ahead, Yeah. 919 00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,960 Have a good winter. I think I'll pick something for 920 00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,640 training for now the now the devil is in the spring. 921 00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,680 Maybe the devil will be the fling again. 922 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,120 Because. I love the lock side. 923 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:09,640 And then if you've done those two, you would. 924 00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:11,120 Have to do the West. Island way, so. 925 00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:14,520 Definitely. I've definitely got some 926 00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,760 unfinished business on the. West Island way the complete 927 00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,960 race but I'm not sure I can do next year. 928 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,560 Not sure I have to ask for some advice. 929 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:29,840 From Rob Sinclair around how to. Beat So I thought, go away for a 930 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:31,720 few years, he says. And go and do some marathons. 931 00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:34,720 And come back, yeah, but I think. 932 00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,040 What he's done is gone. And done more like Sky races. 933 00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,640 Yeah, that's that's what he's been doing. 934 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,800 Well, that's I think brings us to a close. 935 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,680 And got to say thank you, Ryan, for coming on. 936 00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:52,680 Thank you, Nikki, for being Nikki. 937 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,960 And it's goodbye from me. Thanks for coming on. 938 00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:57,320 Thank you. Very much for having. 939 00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:57,440 Me.