Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Run Till You're Done.
This week's guest is one part of Run Lama Coaching community.
As well as having a fascinating running background himself, he
joins us tonight to talk about exciting events fast approaching
this year. Welcome to the show, John
O'Donnell. Thanks very much guys.
It's a it's a welcome. It's a pleasure to be here to
join you in such a popular media forum that you've got here.
So thanks for the invite you're. Welcome.
Thanks. Thanks for coming on.
So the first question that we ask every single guest that
comes on is how did you first get into running 1st?
Getting it running well depends how far you want to go back.
So I was a pretty good runner in high school.
I had a bit of a natural ability.
It's always kind of like top, top three in my year
consistently. And then life get in the way
through my 20s and 30s and started piling on the way at the
moment, a reflection in my late 30s and just how much a physical
shape had changed. Excuse me.
And that's what prompted me to to take it up again.
And I went right back to basics, starting going along.
Had a friend that was right at the park run at that time, my
idea of hell turning up, you know, a couple of 100 foot next
Saturday morning luminous gear on donut water bottles.
You know, you hope they're having to talk to strangers.
But he dragged me along and I got absolutely hooked, utterly
hooked from it on it right from the off.
And the suppose it's not an uncommon story, but quite
quickly the time started falling.
I definitely had that natural ability.
So the time started kind of come down quite quickly and so did
the waistline. And that was all I needed for as
motivation to keep keep going. So I was, I was 39, I'm 51 now.
So I've started 9 when I did that first part run.
So I'm very, very late starter. But again, I don't think that's
an uncommon story. So yeah, that's what got me into
running initially. And then it went from there to
Hanky's half marathons, marathons, you know, you know,
and then somebody planning to see about doing an ultra.
And for long enough, I thought that's for other folk, you know,
it's not for, it's not for little me.
But but yeah, it's been a, it's been a great ten years or so.
But no, that's how I get into it.
OK. If I'm being truthful, it was a
moment of reflection on my second bottle of wine one Friday
night and the wrong, wrong side of 14 stone.
So at 39 you started park run again?
Or you started running again? Do park run?
How long, how steep a curve before you ended up doing this
at distances you're doing now? It's probably, I mean I don't
know I don't have an exact timeline but can a year one
maybe? 2 was all about park runs.
I was obsessed with park runs at the same time as a quick quite
quickly into the sub 20 club. Then it was sub 19 and I was
just hooked on it. Joined Gathnup North and then as
my daughter started doing athletics, I started going along
and assisting the coaching coaches there.
So that kind of got me into, you know, some of the the smaller
kind of Rd. races. A lot of the road runners do the
Brian Goodwins and you know, you know the ones I mean, the
Troons, etcetera. You know, you know, the 10 KS
and then there was the the whole cross country season, I was
doing relays with the senior guys and which absolutely loved
running about muddy fields and first thing on Saturday morning
might only be 567 kilometres, you know, but what a laugh.
So slowly but surely, the distances were competitive
distances were keeping up. But again, things like marathons
and it never crossed my mind. And it's, it's that kind of
imposter syndrome, I think runs through a lot of his.
I was just always, that's no, for me, that's, that's for
somebody else. So I think I remember exactly
when it was, I was on holiday, random and all, but I was on
holiday in Cuba as a family and we met a Danish family and we,
we had it all feeling really, really nice.
Still keep in touch this day. And he was, he was quite keen on
his marathon, marathons. And so he planted the seed, he
invited us over to their place and we did.
I ended up doing their local marathon in Alburg in the north
of Denmark. And so trained properly for it
took on, you know, I thought if, if Mads and Young can do it
then, then then I can do it. So that's what we did with
Roller for a long weekend. I did the marathon and I don't
know, I can't remember the exact number.
It was like 315 and it was like first foreign finisher something
like I was like I got a special prize this wee village.
It was like hilarious. So so that kind of I suppose I
was bitten the bug then knowing that, but I was capable of doing
it and and in a fairly respectable time as well when
somebody truthful. I didn't even at that point,
still didn't really know what I was doing.
You know, I was probably fallen some kind of plan on making up
as I went along, you know, just the basic increase in volume a
wee bit every week for 16 weeks, you know, and just just hoping
it worked on the day kind of thing and very, very basic.
But it got it got me that that it got me that result.
So for my first and then it was a case of right, what's the next
one? What's the next one?
And ended up doing Loch Ness
like 3 three times in a row because I loved Loch Ness that
much. And that's where I got my first
sub 3. So within back to your question.
So I think, let's say for arguments within first, I don't
know, 3-4 years. I was then at 2:59, you know, I
was now kind of like sub three marathon and I still can't quite
believe. And I was pushing 17 minutes for
5K and I was like, you know, can I, can I punch myself?
So that's roughly the kind of time scales.
It's 17 minutes 5K. Is that park run?
Is that your park run PB? 17 I think 17 O 6 I think 17 O
six or seventeen O 8 is the official a part run APBI
unofficially scratched under 17 but unofficial.
Do you know what I mean? It's just a sort of cycle track
with Strava, nothing else. So, but I saw that was the kind
of rough times in yeah. And then all the best people
have done Loch Ness three times as well, haven't the?
Next game, I completely agree. I would keep going back.
I actually invited my friend from Denmark, so I reciprocated
the weekend and he came over and did Loch Ness Marathon with us,
you know, and did the whole bit and he was completely in all the
weekend, you know, in the Highlands of Scotland.
You know, Thanks a lot, Miss you love that.
So no, that's actually one. I know it's a question that
comes later on, but that's that's one of my favorite.
I've got such a soft spot for that, for that race.
Just the whole atmosphere, the way the the families and the
kids can, you know, along those wee villages that are dotted
along the course. It's brilliant.
It's absolutely amazing. He then he encouraged everybody
to give it a go. And I noticed that.
I noticed people slag it for being.
It's downhill. It's not downhill.
It might be technically downhill.
All right. There's lots of uphills on that
course. It's an absolute nut case of a
course to try and pace but escape from.
Love it. Absolutely love.
Yeah. You know the doors is there 18
miles when you're running, It's definitely a hill.
All right, well, I know, I know everybody gets nightmares about
this hill, but like a Sporic is is like more and more anti ultra
and I'm kind of like what help is everybody talking about this
hill? That's not a hill.
The last time I ran Loch Ness, and God knows how long ago it
was, I ran West Highland Way in the same year and they were
doing some sort of TV interview afterwards and I was a random
person selected and I said I'd run West Ham Way and I run Loch
Ness and I found Loch Ness. I was meaning marathon.
Marathon was harder than the West Ham Way because the
marathon you are basically sprinting for as long as you
could, as hard as you could. There's.
West Ham Way. It's not.
So I can't, I can't talk. Make them do West Highland this
year. And I've had one field attempt a
couple of years ago, West Highland Way, and I know every
inch of it. I've spent more time on the West
Highland Way, and I've probably spent my family from being
honest in the last 10 years. So I know every inch of it.
But I know exactly what you mean.
That that that that marathon, it's literally a red line in the
hallway. Yeah, I know exactly what you
mean. We've had previous guests that
have done Loch Ness, Madison and I've always said like never
again. I've not gone back to road
running. That's me.
I'm away with the trails. But every single guest that
seems to come on of late or do Loch Ness, do Loch Ness.
So I think it might actually be on the cards from Eastern as
well. Now you're talking me into this.
It's just one of those ones where the logistics and the,
the, it's as far removed from a rock up walk to the start line,
you know, buzzer goes and the way you go as far removed from
that as you can get. You know, you've got to get
busted at 5:00 in the morning 1000 feet up a mountain.
You know, we're not 30 odd buses and you're looking at it.
So this is just surreal. And then there's all these
trucks waiting, waiting for you at the top of this isolated
mountain. It's just, it's a surreal
experience. It's great.
I loved it. So when you went from the five
KS in the park runs to the marathons before we move on to
what you got on to later on, did you have a favorite distance
that you liked today? Question.
Like, I mean, I like at the time, I like the idea of the 10
KS, you know, the Brian Goodwins and stuff like that.
You know, I forgot the name of the rest of them and the Troons.
I like that because just because it was again, it was back to
that it was, it was absolute flat, 10K red line, the hallway,
give it everything. You'll be done in 3637 minutes.
You know, it'll all be over quite soon.
And I went through a period where I quite enjoyed that
distance. Half marathon again, it's it's
similar, but and that yeah, yeah, feels like a Sprint for
the whole 21 and a bit kilometres, you know, marathon,
all right, there's a wee bit less effort to end, but not
much, you know, but so I think I think enjoyed 10 KS and I
endured the halfs and the marathons.
I think that's probably a fair assessment.
Every time I'd do a marathon, it'd be like right, never again
think that, you know, and then I'd be right on looking for
whether next there's less the next one or four months.
Dublin, right, I'm going. To Dublin, Nikki was saying
about doing Rd. Marathon.
My running club, Newburgh Dunes, they had, I think it was 7.
Is there 17 or 19 people doing Manchester the other week?
It's just as Loch Ness is our local marathon and everybody
went down to Manchester, so there must be something about
it. I wasn't, I'll be honest, I
mean, I wasn't a huge fan of Manchester, if I'm being honest,
Mike, I mean, I had an awful day.
I had a hip injury and I ended up limping the second-half of
it. But from a actual course point
of view, I wasn't I wasn't that taken away, if I'm being honest.
You know, what's that kind of built up industrial type feeling
areas and not very pretty lot of greyness going on.
I mean, listen, lots of hope might disagree with me and I
know some very, very close friends that keep going back and
love it, but not for me. If I'm being honest.
There's not so much nicer I. Guess Loch Ness is although
you're on the road, you're out in the countryside.
Yeah, true. Totally true.
Environment No, I know, I know I think that's part of the reason
I've avoided London like the plague since I started running
See the idea of running through that busy city centre and just
buildings everywhere and what have you that that just never,
ever appealed to me at all. I was, I was going off to do
things like Dublin and on my own, you know, and Barcelona and
absolutely Alberg random, you know, north of a Denmark.
So I would tend to kind of do the more kind of off the beaten
track ones, like not the Barcelona's offbeaten track, but
you know what I mean, Some of the nicer ones.
And it's interesting you say that because I know there's a
lot of debate that there's 1.1 million entered for London this
year. I read somewhere and a lot of
people are saying there's so many other good Madisons, you
know, if people are feeling inspired going into another one
that is more accessible. I mean, I'll be honest, anybody
that knows me, London's my worst nightmare just for the people.
Like, not the not the, the way the people aren't just the
volume of people. No, I know you mean yeah, but I
know you mean mention it. You've just ran it the weekend
there, haven't you? I did, yeah.
I ran a couple of weeks ago A and it was so it was always a
back story. But the reason I did it was
because a, there's another cracker, a Berlin.
So my friend and I, Martin Gray, we went to Berlin last year.
The two of us met with some guys where we're there.
But what a weekend. It was just a fantastic weekend.
You know, it was just one of those ones that will go down as
a massive never to be forgotten. You know, just the whole event,
the people value for money, just just just everything.
Such a beautiful city as well. I've been just dead efficient
and walks. Swede did that last year and I
know you watch what I see here. So I hadn't even really properly
trained for her, but but I went anyway in the that's kind of my
should have been honest. As I get older, I don't I don't
stress about the three decimal places as much as I used to.
If I feel kind of all right there and thereabouts, then then
I'll I'll just kind of go go over the floor and see what
happens on a day kind of thing. Less so when I was younger and I
threatened get all nervous about, you know, a couple of
seconds here and there. That's not the case at all.
So so we went to a Berlin and we both had a cracking day.
I mean, so much so. And again though I brag, but I
got PB quite significant 251, you know, like took took several
minutes of my previous PB. So it wasn't until then talking
to other, it was actually a couple of guys from Giffnock,
the Andy Campbell and we were talking about London and how the
good for age opened the following week.
So I didn't have a clue what the good for age meant.
I always thought London was you've got no chance unless you
buy, you know, the 2 grand golden ticket kind of thing.
You know, you've got no chance. But they were explaining the
good for age was 3/10 for somebody my age.
So with me with a 251, it wasn't a lottery for me.
You know, I would be absolutely guaranteed a place.
Martin, he was in the same kind of camp with a 252.
So basically we decided before we left Berlin that we were
going to be London so much. So we booked the flights, we
were in Berlin, got home, did the good for age application and
we both got it. And and so there's no more logic
to our planning than a behind it than that it was just a complete
happen to bump in a couple of guys from Gifford walking
through Central Berlin. I think, I think what Boston do
is the good for age for them is the more under the good for age
mark, the better the chance of getting in.
So if you're only. Yeah, London's the same thing, I
correct. That's what they've been
explaining so on me with a 251 versus A310 good for age like
you're you're you're funny with the edge.
Yeah yeah yeah funny the way somebody with a three as you say
7-8 or nine might be kind of stall all a bit of a lottery.
So so that's the only reason I went to careful and be honest
and they and I bet that is part of you know this whole party
bigger picture right. So there's West Highland Manor
in a handful of weeks. So I went to London with the
attitude of I'll use it as a glorified training run for West
Highland Way. You know, I wouldn't be chasing
a sub two 50s. I didn't like, you know, because
a had been injured in January and February this year.
I caught a viral infection the week before London and just all
the signs were there. I shouldn't even have blamed.
And even on the Thursday night before the Friday flight, I've
seen the guys. Look, I don't want to be a donor
on this, but one thing's for sure, I'll go to London and do
that for a fact. But I might just be expecting
and I didn't decide until the night before the actual run
itself that was going to do it. So I know how to look at London,
just try and get to the end and not compromise my health and
fitness for West Highland Way. Fingers crossed I didn't.
Still plenty of time if you did. You mentioned earlier big and
nervous about like taking seconds of your time.
What about before a race? Do you still get nervous now?
I think less so mate. It depends what I'm setting out
to do, if you know what I mean. The last few races have
genuinely been quite relaxed get into them because I've had such
a big couple of years. Last year in particular, that
was almost like what I achieved last year.
I kind of almost said it to my wife that said it like if I if I
come back from Morocco in one piece and not not blown the
family budget and then completely embarrass myself,
then I'll kind of retire from running.
But it's never happened by the way.
But in my head, I was just determined to take a far more
relaxed approach to running. But but back in the earlier
days, things like I part ones, I was a bag of nerves, absolute
bag of nerves. I found the only way to control
it was just just suck up, just go off with your heart rate
bouncing through the roof and things would eventually settle
down. You know, dry mouth.
And like we silly tricks that I learned or taught myself, you
know, maybe like a Wii 300 mil water bottle just to get me
through that first one or two kilometres just to take away the
dryness in the mouth. I don't need like fill it up to
the brim just enough for a Wii sit and it'd be enough just to
it's one less 1 less thing to think about.
I think you know, yeah, it's a horrible feeling when your mouth
is dry, is it? And you know, it's just adrenal,
but then you start thinking you're dehydrating.
All sorts of crazy thoughts go through your head.
But the. But no, as I say, I suppose it's
what I'm trying to achieve in the event or can I drive that
level of nervousness? So I was.
So you're finding the more that you run and the further into it
you get, the less nervous you're becoming because that's
something I massively struggle with before any event.
Do you? I'm actually going to an event
where I'm meeting Mike a week on Saturday and I know for a fact
I'll be. I don't know if it's I don't
think it's nervous because I'm not nervous.
I'm not scared about it. But I'll do fish here treatment
and I'll I'll either be sick or. I don't know.
It's listen, I'm not, I'm not going to profess to be any kind
of sports psychologist. I'm not be doing this a wee
while and I think certainly for me, so speaking from past the
level right, and I'm not trying to project this on to you or
anyone else, but see if you've got a whiff of imposter, send
them just just balloons on your head, right.
And it's all I felt that my first, first I'll try I did was
the devil of the islands off the back of a comment a guy from
Giffnut made in Ricky swears he he just said John Devil Islands.
You ought to consider it. Absolutely.
You're you're, you're designed for that, you know, and whole
towns like, can he do that? It's not for me.
That's for like superheroes like you, you know, you know, and
even standing there on the startling, I'm like, what?
Get my date here. The longest I've run is 40
kilometers. I don't know what happens after
that, you know, so, so I suppose even up to that point, I was
pretty nervous up to that point and then reaching the 4042
kilometer mark and like, oh, you're in the death zone, you've
got any idea what happens, you know, and it's all asking, you
know, people going to jump, you know, what happens after 42 K
and an actual fight. Nothing really, nothing really
that different. It's just a wee bit more of the
same. And if you haven't been going
hammering it, then you know, you should be able to repeat what
you've done for the previous 10K.
So it's not for me to suggest like, but for me, a lot of my
nervousness was imposter syndrome.
And then think the only one of the things that helped me settle
my nerves was just look at my results to just reflect on my
results. You know, just just quietly, you
know, some kind of statistic, the only 2% of anybody that's
ever run a marathon, it's been under 3 hours, you know, So just
just little Nuggets like that to yourself, just to reassure
yourself there's lots of people that would, would probably kill,
kill to do you do. Because let's face it, it's
pretty, it's pretty daft. You know what?
What we do so suddenly. You just need to go out and run
a 3 hour marathon and then you'll be fine.
You're in the 2% club. We have a marathon that will end
in the box. Never say never.
It was interesting, John, that you said about imposter syndrome
because I've read studies saying that people that are the best at
their job usually have imposter syndrome.
So the fact that you're running 3 hour marathons, it's relates
to that I think. Yeah.
No, that's a good point. That's a good point.
I think I'll probably read a lot of the similar stuff because
it's the same in a professional capacity as well with me as
well. Anything new again to there's,
there's always that at all. I started like yourself, like I
started a new job in January. And as much as I've been with
organization 12 years, it's a, it's a, it's a different
function. It's a different part of the
business. It's different people.
And and again, it's it's all that and putting on post about,
you know, kind of new guy type nervousness.
What am I doing here? Did I make the right decision?
You know it's all the similar thoughts that go through your
mind. Start stood in the start line.
So I think this is nice segue mate.
Did you have a question there before?
No, move on. No, on you go, on you go I.
Was actually going to ask from the marathons and the roads, how
did we then progress onto trails and ultra marathons?
So I've always loved trails for a start.
So, so I know I see the put on weight in my 30s, but the same
token I get in a bag in Munro's in my 30s as well.
And I was, I was loving that. So I think I can't remember the
last count thing I did a couple of weekend.
I think I'm probably about high 80s, about 90.
And then all loads of people have completed them was 280 and
all that and I'll probably never do that.
But I did get into it and I enjoyed it.
Daughter was quite young. So can you get away a lot?
But when a dad would maybe make like a weekend of and do four or
five in the weekend. So I really enjoyed that.
Then what I found was if I ran them, obviously I could get
round them a lot quicker and get back home.
And I loved the idea of me. I've run Ben Norman, something
like I don't know, I've lost count maybe 1215 times just
because it was it was handy and I could go and I've on my on my
own that an old pair of summer bottle boots didn't have a clue
what I was doing, putting on my feet at a time, but I loved it.
Loved mountain bacon. So I've always loved that being
outdoors. Never been to take the fall
football or rugby and like, you know, much rather be out and
amongst it said always loved the trails.
Nikki for a for a long, long while even played a bit at the
park runs. I quite often go to park little
pair of spikes on and just run a bit the the muddy forests and
trails on my Todd during the week.
Again, not really knowing what I was doing or why I was doing it,
just really enjoyed it. So the ultras that came about
that that boy from Giffnock, Ricky, he just happened to plant
the seed about the devil, you know, being being ideal because
I could see my times. Yeah.
I don't know how he came to that conclusion and the I don't know.
He did it as well actually that that same year.
So we kind of rocked up together as I say, but he was, he's like
really experienced UTMB stuff, lots of stuff in Europe and I
just felt right out my debt. But he again did it.
I think I was, I know the numbers aren't everything, but I
think I was like top 10 or top 11.
And again, just looking back on the results, I'm just, you know,
it's not, I know it's not the fastest.
I know plenty of people much, much faster times.
But for me at that time as a first, I was like, shit, I'm
actually OK at this. You know, I was looking a bit
all those people at the start line looking at all these
experienced bunley, you know, muscular ultra runners.
And I'm stood there like, you know, as we scrawny as they
can't know what they're doing. So I so kind of went from there
and then the pattern behaviour just just continued.
It was like, right, what's the next one?
I love us and and on it went things like theme, but a few a
great Glenn made a mess of West Highland way.
Dunoon loved Dunoon. Well, it was Argart and Bill
introduced Argart fairly recently, but I on on these
races absolutely love them. I think the only one I haven't
done when about is a fling. Great.
Glen, did you do, did you do the, the short course, the the
the only 42 miles or did you do the full Great Glen?
So both I did the, I'll probably get the date showing I think
20/21. It was the first ultra after
lockdown, after COVID. That was a long 1.
So I did the whatever that was 115 kilometres really did well
at that podium. Again, surprised myself, Longest
run I'd ever done. And then last year I did the
short course, great Glenn short course and and again podiumed,
given that I hadn't really trained for that and I had bad
luck in my sights and like a few weeks after it was a couple of
weeks away and played El Carmen in between, you know, So it was
a bit of a mash mash a year last last year.
Yeah, you, you say you podiumed at the short course, the Great
Glen short course, but I think you won it, didn't you know?
I did. I did think I won it and.
I I was the slowest person in that race.
Probably. Probably because I was a
sweeper, but that's not the point.
All right, very good. It was funny because it was very
small field. There was a little bit of 30
runners, but took off from Fort Augustus like an absolute
because I know they're very well.
Again, won the run the races twice, but I've spent a lot of
time on that course. It's actually one of my
favorite. So we headed off from Fort
Augustus and I took off like a whippet and as we get up that
first hill, you come over the Crest and you go down the hill
and you boot turn left up into the first forest.
I looked behind. There was this big guy behind
me, like right on my heels. I was like, oh, I'm in for a day
of it here, right? So I ran the rest of that race
like he was just around the next corner, absolutely fearful that
he was going to catch me any and.
Was it? Listen, I don't worry.
He did not know why. It's just there was quite a big
gap. In the end.
I had the idea I can run it across that finish line as if I
was on fire. I ended up talking to his wife
because she was she was like following him on the course, you
know, and giving him the updates and stuff like that.
She wasn't saying hello later on, you know, she's my husband
says I knew how far ahead you Liam, but she didn't crack a
light. But but so again, that's again,
I think it's a question that comes, but that's one of my
favorite courses in regards to kind of UK type ultra faces that
I've done anyway, I love I love to get Glenn.
Yeah, I I would. Maybe not my favorite, but one
of my favorite. Probably in the top three.
I would say At one point I had the course record for the long
course and the slowest record for the short course.
It's still a bad coin, I think. Sorry, John, I have a couple of
questions from the back of your running from last year.
So the first one is, do you have a coach?
Do I have a coach? Yeah.
No, no. Right, because I was going to
ask, my next question was going to be how does a coach manage
having a marathon plan and an ultra marathon when you are
training for road and trail and events?
How? How does that work?
It's an absolute freak show, Nikki.
Yeah. So bear in mind I do coach
people and the first thing, so I'm an absolute.
I'm not hypocrite, right? Again, it's where I am in life
and it's what I want to do and what I want to achieve.
If I was. So let's let's take it to
extremes. If I was training for an
absolute flat Valencia marathon, you know, or somebody came along
to me and said, look, I want to do a 255 Valencia marathon in 18
weeks. My PB at the moment is 310.
So their plan would look very different to someone's plan that
say they want to do Valencia Mars in December and then they
want to do the flying in March or April whenever, as I know
it's moved to the first half of the year.
So, so their plan would look very different.
And that's the way I take it to other people.
What I do, I cannot. So if you look at the London
example, I cannot afford to neglect the West Haven way
discipline, you know, the hills and the volume.
So my speed walk was was that that I was prepared to
compromise the speed walk on the run up to London just because I
couldn't do do all and and I was prepared to make that conscious
decision. I didn't have Western Way and
London was the a race, you know, be all and end all.
Then it would look very, very different.
Notwithstanding it wasn't. I was kind of injured in China
uniform, you know, couldn't walk a step.
But does that make sense? I think you can't be all things
to all men all the time. You know, you have to make
compromises along the way. And I'll say I'll quote you as
well. It's not you know, Rome wasn't
about the day. It's yes, by all means look at
this year, but consider how this year will impact next year and,
and what you know, how you can improve on next year from what
you do this year. The you know, all that training
doesn't just get lost and get forgotten about them.
So I try, I try and coach people, I think longer term and
not just in the, you know, the, the couple of months window that
we happen to be in. Yeah, that's really good advice.
And basically you you pick your race.
If you pick your race, you pick your events.
Yeah, absolutely. And and yeah, it's I mean,
sometimes I'll have an intro conversation with the some of
them will coach and you know, I'll do a bit of this Q&A.
You know what's on your your wish list first year and wish,
if I can, your 10 KPBS and and you were last like, you know,
they're doing 14 races this year and they want you're like, wow,
Jesus, right. And you plan to go flat out
everyone. Well, don't see why not right,
OK, so you've got to kind of dial that back and go back to
that. Maybe not hammer every single
one, you know, maybe every second or third one and used
others as training events or you know, you really quality run
events, but still getting in because because at the end of
the day, some people like the act of going to a race and
seeing familiar faces and you know, just meeting friends that
you might be willing to see a couple of times a year.
And I would never discourage anybody from doing that ever.
But sometimes it's sensible to to just just power back and
don't worry about the number all the time, if that makes sense.
And how, how would somebody go about getting coached by you?
Hey, just get in touch through through any of the socials,
Instagram, Facebook, through the website run Glamour.
And how did that come about? I don't.
We have a dream in the middle of the night.
Nikki only Jordan so when I was quote.
Sent with the name. The names that the names I trade
seek, I kind of share how that came about.
No, how it came about was when I was coaching my when my daughter
was getting up from the age of about 10 through 1415, I was
coaching two nights a week and sometimes at the weekend.
Though when the horse and has studies start to kind of get a
bit more involved the the athletics dialed back and I
didn't realise it was happening at the time, but I kind of found
myself investing a lot of time in the club and I don't know, I
felt that I'd put my time in to the club and I'm just looking
for a wee bit of me time back. So yeah.
So I backed away from the coaching from Giffnock.
But then I found that that this kind of gap in my life, I didn't
realize if I've been truthful and had a look about.
Anyway, Long story short, I thought, how could I then
transfer all that coach and running experience to the the
the, you know, adult arena? Because bear in mind it was
under fifteens, under seventeens.
I was coaching at Giffnock. So that's what I did.
I saw pulled together a plan or a concept soft launch just to
get gauge interest and and it's been great.
Yeah, Chris and I have been really as successful, as
successful as we've wanted to be.
If I'm being truthful. We are happy and content with
the numbers of clients that we have at the moment.
And we're doing the inaugural Hair Ultra, Sunset Ultra next
month. So that's a real nail biting
moment, as you can imagine. I don't have any nails left
whatsoever. I know on the surface I make
appear cool, calm clay, but behind the scenes, honestly,
it's like the proverbial swan, like me him organised you have.
An army of volunteers ready to back you.
Listen, you better believe it, Nikki, our very own Nikki here
is on timing responsibilities and she phoned me up the other
day there, which was hilarious. She's all daytime and all
daytime and I'm up big responsible job.
Tick. She phones him up the other day.
What exactly is it you want me? Did you?
I'm like, what do you mean you've ran races?
You see the thank you for this day.
It was the phone call. I was on a train and run at the
long. I was along the West Highland
Way, which was mobbed by the way, on my way back and the
phone's going ping, ping, ping, ping, ping, because John's
getting everything organised for this ultra.
He's like right, Nikki, thank you.
There's ages ago. Nikki, can you do thank you.
I I need bother. Nikki, can you do time keeping
and on about laptops and things? I'm like hod, hod the boss.
We not getting a timing company for this.
No, Nikki, you're going to be standing there with your
stopwatch. I'm like, Oh my goodness.
Back to basics. Absolutely no, it's less than
it's limited to 100 runners. So no, we're we're listen, we're
keeping it, we're keeping it to back basics as you say.
No, you will have you'll have one of these big illuminated
kind of like stop clocks, you know, on your table.
So dead easy, dead easy. And you know what, I'm actually
looking forward. It's going to be a great event
for people to come to see. It's going to be the.
The amount of people that's offered to volunteer, I've been
utterly overly overwhelmed. It's been amazing.
It really has. There hasn't been a a panic in
that respect at all. You know, we've got probably
more Martin Marshalls than we need.
We've got volunteers for absolutely every aspect.
To know that the volunteer community have been absolutely
amazing. We cannot thank everyone
involved enough. And for those that don't
actually know, because John and I are involved in this, John,
can you explain the format for this race?
That's what's unusual about it. All right, so there's a few
unusual aspects and the first one is it's through the night.
So it's a 1030 start on Irvine Beach, Irvine Beach Park.
So it starts at 10:30 PM and it runs for about 95% of the entire
route on the sand along urban beach.
Couple of bits where you come off where you've got ground the
various harbours, but otherwise you're on the beach 25
kilometres out down to the end of air beach and then back
again. So it's an out and back 25 K
each way. So I I'll be, I'll be really
interested the, the beach in the sand itself can be quite if the
tides out. You'd be surprised just how fast
you can go on the sand but flip. So there's two tides in and
you've only got 2030 feet of a slither of soft sand.
That's that's a very different experience for folk.
You know that that's like running in deep snow, but ankle,
ankle deep snow. So, so we'll see.
I've actually looked at the tides, but I'm not going to give
it away what what we are. What time does it start at?
Yeah. 10:30 PM Mike. And how long will you say 50K?
So some of the slow runners are going to be taking, what, 7-8
hours? Easy.
I think so, Mike. The window will be.
In the sand, yeah. Yeah, I I think so the, the, I
think the winning time, I'm going to say I'm going to put it
out there and I'm basing this mic on.
So I've done I've done a couple of record runs on it and I know
the effort up and I think the kind of winning time would be of
around three 45350 and I'm up and kind of basing that on my
experience and I know some of the kind of faster runners as
well. So I can gauge them against me,
if you know what I mean. So I think the one in time will
be coming in a bit before have to and as you see it could be 8
hours of folk are power hiking it.
Yeah. And I think tide cycles go in
six hour cycles, so slow runners are going to be they're, they're
going to get it no matter when you're starting.
Pretty much. But then now listen, it's not
it's not complete. You always get that degree where
you know the tides been in and it's going out.
Did that make sense as there's always that kind of, I don't
know how to describe it, but there's always that, but
slightly. We better wet sand.
It's just a wee bit harder pack than the soft stuff.
That makes sense. So yeah, that's the event.
Everything, fingers crossed, is ready to go.
Medals, trophies, all the merch. Hopefully the trophies and the
merchandise yourself will be a talking point because we're
really, we want to do something unique.
We don't just want to do a kind of copy and paste of other
events. It's really quite unique the the
trophies in particular. Nikki, did you see the right?
Yeah. So basically.
Absolute belters, everyone is in for a treat and you know what?
The medals are just second to none.
They're fantastic. The I'm.
I'm biting my tongue because I don't want to give any.
No way I. Know, I know, I know, but all
about see is explain this somebody there.
So Chris, Chris is a creative genius, right?
I'm not outside deal with governance and process with the
councils and stakeholders, you know, and getting the getting
the due diligence done and the Chris just gets allowed to run
completely creative creativity. Got a quick browse about been
mental on the creative stuff. You know, so the trophies are
literally an insight to the inner workings of Chris's mind.
And it's an an ultra at night on the beach.
Of all the places that you could have set an ultra, why the
beach? Again, don't my heart back to to
MD's, but a lot of the training I did for MD's, I trained for
MD's for about 18 months to two years and a lot of it was on the
sand also. Who don't know what is MD's.
I beg your pardon? Right, so Marathon the SAB is a
six day multi day event in the Sahara Desert.
Self supported event. Yeah, in the Sahara Desert.
I did that last year and from a 50th it was, it was really that
thing I, that last year I flew to Gatwick on the 10th of April
and then I flew to Morocco on the 11th and my birthday was the
11th. So you can take the bear.
So it was, it was one of my bucket.
It was, it was my bucket list item to do marathon the SAB.
So it was last year. As I say, got to carry
everything yourself. All they give you is water in a
sheet canvas over your, over your night time, 252 kilometres
over. It's over six days, but it's
over five runs, if that makes sense.
Yeah, they, they, they, they give you a 2 day allowance for
the 90 kilometre run. But for the faster runners,
myself included, if you're doing that in 12 hours, then you
essentially get a day off a rest day, you know, so hard goes out
to those folk that are still out there plugging away, you know,
if through the mid-day sun on day 2, you know, the, the other,
the other superheroes of the event, if I'm being honest.
So yeah, I saw I trained for that for about 18 months, two
years, basically running about morning and night with a
backpack on and as much as I could on the sand.
The urban beach is only 20 minutes from my front door, so
it's really very handy. So I spent a lot of time on
urban beach training and it was on one of those occasions I just
had this idea, but why don't we turn it into race?
So Chris jumped at it and next thing we know about on the
council talking about due diligence processes and
governance and a first aid strategy and you name it.
So I've actually got the cost card.
Also another unique element we've got the cost card
supporting as the entire event. They're, they're all from the
first aid assistance. So anybody has a Tumblr,
whatever. Then if on the Coast Guard
someone's talking to them. I just think this is really
cool, right? Maybe it's just me, but I was
talking to the lady, you know, heads up that Coast Lodge
building at Urban Beach and she said she says oh I think anybody
has a serious tumble. Don't worry, you phone us.
You don't, you don't phone, you know, 999 anybody else, you
phone us. We can have the helicopter over
from Belfast much faster than it can have an ambulance from
Paisley. So I don't know any other ultra
other than MD's where you get the option a helicopter they can
avail you and can. I just say that that's not an
option for people. That is only that's not far.
From the standard you may have to pay for that.
I didn't go into detail, but the fact that that say if things
went that badly, which they won't, it's on sand right and
it's flat as a pancake. But I just thought that was a
cool one liner. I'll stick with you that going.
Back to being nervous, what are you most nervous about for this
race? So many small aspects, just, you
know, so many small bits, components just all coming
together at the right time just for it to be a success for
everybody. And, and there's, I suppose
there's loads of these things, but I think we've, we've been
really diligent in going through what they look like.
We've got the Marshalls, you know, we've got the aid
stations. I can't think of anything.
But you never, you never know, Mike.
You know, that's why we're going basics on the timing.
So it'll be a, you know, guess a glorified stopwatch with a bit
of paper, you know, number and name.
Don't rely too much on electronics, might fail.
It's a beach setting or we'll have a generator, but something
happens to that. So that's the thought process at
the moment. We've got an Ampervan, but what
something happened to that, you know, So where there is a kind
of a, a risky piece of the jigsaw, we have tried to have a
contingency in place. All the kind of other material
components like race numbers and the goodie bags and merch and
all that, that's already arrived.
And here the numbers arrived today actually.
They're also looking great, Nikki.
So that was one of the last pieces.
So it's just all of those bits, mate.
I think if I was still sat here waiting on our delivery from
China or some stuff, I might be a little bit nervous.
But yeah, it's just, it's just a lot.
The idea of, you know, you have this concept, you put it out
there. I mean, it's sold out.
So we limited it. We limited it to 100 runners in
the first year and from, you know, share this with you and
the listeners. So Chris and I with no idea how
it would go down. And we had a private
conversation that went along the lines of, look, if 20 people
sign up, we'll put it on, but we'll put it on the shoestring.
You know, there'll be no bells or whistles or just be really,
really basic. If 50 people turn up, then it
will be a complete success. And it sold out 100 people in
less than 10 days. And, and as he was sick, so he,
he's responsible for entry central, a type of admin.
I was only in holiday at the time.
He was giving me like daily updates and, and it was every
day. It was another 10 got another
10, another 10. You know, it's like, oh shit,
this is a, this is actually quite serious.
But I think there's that many people, especially like within
the Scottish community, the, that is a really small number
and it's very, very for it being inaugural.
A lot of people like the, you know, the exclusivity of that.
I mean, I, I consider that myself for, you know, this is
for knowing what I would have wanted to have done for my plans
this year. This is my part of the
involvement, right? Well, I'm not going to erase it,
but I want to volunteer so. No, I get that.
I mean, that's sorry, I mentioned earlier on as well
part of the logic for holding it where it was was it was the
whole training for MD's. But I'm fairly very mindful.
But a lot of the ultras in Scotland in particular,
everybody's got ahead of the E9 or of the E2, you know, they're
all kind of centred around a bit Western way greatly.
They're not all obviously, of course, there's no others ran
Oaks and Glenn trade. I know there's not, but Yesh has
a part of the country where I can't even think of any other
than there ever. We, you know, and, and also 50%
of all participants are female, which we're very proud of as
well. Yeah.
And and that wasn't there's no quotas or you, you, you know,
would you call it positive advertising on that?
It's just, you know, first come, first served and and 50% of
females. I was going to ask, was that
intentional or is that just? That's just the way it's.
That's just the way it's fallen, yeah.
Fabulous. Hello.
You you said about being nervous
about waiting for a a shipment coming over.
I last time I raced directed a race.
It was just a running club loose, but I had my Garmin, a
display watch. Other people would see it and
the clock on my phone and I set them all off going at the same
time. And the display clock, when it
came to an hour, it was about 30 seconds out.
I was like, well, Chuck that in the bed and then I'll just use
my. Garmin.
But MM see when I did Berlin, similar story.
I, I did Berlin just in through the usual routine.
Garmin fancy watch never failed me, got me through MD's on a
single charge, you know, because it's a fancy solar 1.
You know, the best of the best on the market at the time.
Bloody. But he started Berlin and then
the stats that were thrown back to it were absolute foreign
language stuff. It said I was going like walk in
peace and it just wouldn't calibrate.
It just wouldn't calibrate at all.
And up until halfway. So actually if you look at my
Strava and Berlin, it will still look as if I took much longer
than I did because the stats are just all over the shop.
It wasn't until about halfway that it started taking a
calibrate my actual pace and the moment and I could see that was
making sense. But the average up to that point
had me doing like a four and a half hour marathon.
It just made no sense at all. So I did a lot of that running
on fuel. But back to your point, relying
on technology, all right, it's it's fine.
Nikki's got us printed it spreadsheet well.
The. The questions tonight, I've got
them sitting on the computer. We're talking on the computer.
We've got a chat going back and forth if we ever need it.
We haven't tonight. Nikki's still got the questions
printed out in a bit of paper. Me and all.
And Speaking of them, I don't actually think we've actually
set start to the question set in the off.
That's fine. I'm looking through it.
You're right. I think we've covered a lot.
Well, one of the next ones I'm going to ask off of the actual
question set and I'm going to give you 2 options for this.
I would like to know what is your favorite event?
I'm not going to be exclusive. What's your favorite Rd. event
and what's been your favorite trail event?
A road bank. It's got, I think Ireland, but
Barcelona with bloody magic as well.
Just two very well executed weekends, you know, just just
brilliant. Everything about them was just
perfect. Berlin is such a lovely place.
As I said, they were on everything just works value for
money. Sweet daft things like unit for
a meal and actually asking the waiter.
You sure you charged enough you know, you know, because things
were so good value for money, you know, two people could eat
out like kings for £20. It was, it was a weirdest thing.
Everything just worked like clockwork guys.
So Berlin probably Rd. event with Barcelona close second and
A trails. Yeah, of course saying MD's is
like nothing comes close to me personally, but that was a
bucket list. And I know it's saying, I know
it's quite exceptional. I don't know, think great Glenn,
I think I touched on it before. I love great.
I just loved it. I love the fact that it's like 2
races in one. You know, you get your head down
on that first 50K knowing that the hills are coming and that's
cool because actually by that time you're looking forward to
them. I just, I just like that kind of
split nature of it and just just the different landscapes and
sceneries. I think there's loads to choose
from. There's loads all afternoon.
I love little old garden. How couldn't you love garden,
right? You know what I mean?
But that's back. There you go, one of each.
Al Galton looks like cracking race.
I mean, is that 2-3 years that's been running now and that again,
this is one of these ones that's quite exclusive.
There's not many participants get into it.
Yeah, yeah. They've done that three Times
Now and yeah. And and it's one of our kind of
popular training runs that you as the guys that run with.
So it didn't actually. Go ahead.
Last year it was postponed anyway because of.
Schedules. Oh no, It went ahead Last year
or this year? This year.
Owen Owen cancelled the original date, I'm sure, and then it got
postponed. So the original date.
But then there was a change of route.
Was that that year? Because I've done it every year.
We start three years. Our first year was normal route,
second year was alternative route.
I think, I think that's what it was.
It was because I ran it with a bag one year as a trainer.
Yeah, because that I think that was that not that year all.
Right. That was still that.
That's absolutely correct. So that was the alternative
year, Nikki. That's right.
And then this year I ran with Roberta Fletcher and she smashed
like took 45 minutes off her PB. Brilliant.
I know, all right, so, so, so great experience has been, but
completely different. No2 No two have been the same.
So going from fast marathons to trail ultras and everything in
between, how do you feel for your races?
Fuel. Yeah, I OK.
Yeah. So things like a marathon, I'm
very clinical, like very clinical and I don't obsess too
much about carb loading. I'm doing a wee bit, but I don't
go over the top on the days running up to marathon.
Your body can only sort of store so much glycogen anyway, and you
don't really want to get you a point where you wouldn't even
consider depleting it. You know, to a point, you know,
about 20 K mark, I think the human body can hold about 2025
kilometers worth of glycogen. But so my strategy is always get
about 10 kilometers in, give or take, like, like like your
breakfast, whatever that is, fuel, you know, your first,
your, your journey to the start, all that nervousness, all that
build up your first 10 kilometres or so.
And then it's on average for me two or three gels every hour.
So fingers crossed if I only get 2 and a bit hours to go I'm
looking about 6 gels that will carry on a belt from arsons to
say. I'm quite clinical with that.
If it's a hot one I'll add salt tablets.
If not I won't bother. And I am the world's worst
because I always come back with like 2 spelled gels.
I haven't used DO. You have a gel preference.
What's that do? You have a gel preference?
Do you have a brand you like? I do Nikki.
Actually I do a precision hydration for a no messing about
serious stuff. Don't get me wrong, don't hate
me for saying this, but sometimes I think you've got to
remortgage a host to keep keep going on them because they
haven't itchy. But Christ they're good.
The other in the spectrum, high 5.
I really like the viscosity of high 5.
They're not very Jelly. They're more liquidy if you
know, I mean so dead easy the more a week and a drink than a
gel. I do like them and I do use them
a lot for training runs because I'm a tight ass and I'm not
going to fucking buy precision hydration for running a bit
where I stay in a Wednesday night.
So they are to go to in in bigger runs, much bigger stuff.
Again, I try and keep a very simple formula so the likes of
if you look like great Glenn, I think A6 good six drop bags for
every one, every 20 K give or take.
So I just have a formula for 20K and repeat six times.
I don't I don't kind of really go daft with what's in the bags.
I just try and keep it consistent and that'll be things
like my new favorite thing is Haribos actually they're like
97% carbs. Haribos, you know, see from a
carb return that they like off the charts and they just provide
something different to normal gels or have you or anything.
Those sweeties. Actually, I bought some tonight
when I was having a moment earlier on, I was needing an
energy with Jelly Tots Jelly. There's a new version of Jelly
Tots that come out and they're tangy and they're flapping
brilliant. Again, 97% carbs.
So things like that, I'll always appear in the bag.
Things like I'm a big fan of Ella's Kitchen, the baby food
I've mentioned before on in numerous conversations and
social media. I'm a big fan of banana and
coconut again, just to it's not going to blow your brains with
carb return, but it's just to give you a different texture,
taste, flavour, just something else to add into the mix.
So yeah, what else? I'll pretty much keep me going
if I'm being honest. Horrible's Ella's Kitchen.
I'll throw a banana and maybe after a second drop bag.
I usually never touch it, but it's there is a just in case.
Equally maybe if it's a bit longer than bagels with Nutella,
not chopped up in a bite sized chunks.
They're quite kind of go to. I know they're quite dry as
well, but again, just gives you something different.
Chew on if you're on the move. Yeah, I don't.
I don't find that bananas travel very well.
They've got one of them in the bottom of your bag and you don't
eat it and. You, you find it next day.
Yeah, I know. What?
So you've either got it up and you've either got to eat it
there and then at that checkpoint or, and chances are
you don't really feel like it and you, you, you want in and
out anyway. And the short great Glenn, what
was great was I'm always experimenting with stuff
incidentally, you know. So I'm going to try and keep it
quite simple. I'm always, you know, giving
other things a try. Like see to be many pots of
ambrosia rice. Yeah, absolutely magic.
I find again, it's purely just for a different flavour and
texture. It's not going to set any
records with carb, with tongue. But again, it's just something
different. Look forward to if you know it's
coming up ahead. Do you ever take the carb drinks
like Tailwind or Active Root? Or do you just?
Water. No, no, no, sorry, I should have
said all of that is complemented with tailwind.
Always. Aye, aye, it's always always.
Tailwind used to be active root. I don't know why I'm an author.
Active root actually. I was going to fed up with a
ginger flavour, but they're cracking kind of green tea type.
They do have peppermint as. Well.
Yeah, I, it's that one. It's more of an Imami, I think.
Quite, quite, I can't quite describe it, but it's quite like
that. But I've I've been back to tier
one, go back to what I know. Well, you, you said earlier that
you're doing the West Island way this year.
It's 100 kilometres in is Jelly Baby Hill.
So I'll be at the top of there handing out Jelly babies.
So you'll have one reserved. Good man, because last time I
did it I made an answer that I had to stop at a bridge of Orky.
Oh well, there's your your certain incentive.
You have to come and see me. 96 TN and it's like, oh come on,
really? But it's fine.
I'm not going to go over that one again.
It wasn't. It wasn't for me that day.
So you went over your fuelling during the race, What about out
with the race? You said you don't carb load
that much, but just on a daily basis.
What kind of things like high carb, low carb, high protein,
whatever? A quite a regiment.
So first and foremost, what we're but virtually a vegetarian
family. Virtually my daughter is 100%
vegetarian. So I'm the cook, I'm the chef in
the house. So it's much easier for me at
the weekend to batch cook, be it chillies, bag balls, curries,
etcetera, etcetera. So I tend to batch cook over the
weekend and it'll last us. So it's always a good mix and
every meal often be honest Mike, you know, so you call for
chickpea curries and stuff, you know, they're very healthy.
Maybe broccolis as well. You've got all your proteins
from the, it's called, call it a veggie chili, but it's more like
a bean Stew. You know, it's like a 5 bean
Stew. So ordinarily quite we're quite
healthy in that respect. I tend to always go for a big
salad every lunchtime. I'm just a creature to habit.
I work from home and and that can I know it's high in fiber
and all that, but again, it's a good balance.
Breakfast is always pretty much porridge with Greek yogurt.
Again, getting plenty of protein in there and fruits.
Frozen mango gets off off a frozen mango lots frozen mango
and pretty much so it's relatively balanced volume wise.
Probably eat quite a lot, you know, just just a few evenings.
I'm a big pasta fan, but I was listening a nutritionist last
week and she was saying, you know, the trick with with pasta
is to which obviously exactly what she says, don't eat, don't
eat pasta naked. So dress up with protein of some
description. And so it do with the kind of
the kind of sugar absorption the bloodstream.
So basically the the bloodstream will absorb the protein before
it absorbs the carbs and you know, end around it's better for
you if you do that. But I come in tonight from a big
run, put on a pot of bastard and nothing but pesto in it and
Hoover that like it was my last meal.
So I try and be well behaved most of the time.
I think you've got to. If you need the fuel, you've got
to fuel your body. It needs it.
Whether it's the good or bad, it needs the fuel.
Absolutely, absolutely. I don't, I don't calorie count.
I don't feel I've ever had to. My weight is I can tell.
I mean I, I can tell. So we see when I increase, see
when I go 100 kilometre plus a week, I can just tell how much
more I need to consume because you just start feeling that wee
bit more tired. Equally, if the mileage is a bit
lower then I know when to hold back on the on the biscuits and
ice cream in that. Well, you still need the
biscuits and ice cream for that treat though.
That This is why I. So you mentioned you ran with
your big bag for MD's for training DO.
Is that one of your favorite pieces of running kit, or do you
have an absolute favorite you wouldn't go without?
For that two year period, I couldn't go without that bag.
That was part of my body. It was just part of my
existence. Still have it tough as old
boots. You could throw out a moving
train and a kid you know it wouldn't even pick up a scratch.
It's it's it's cracking bag all of it too.
But that is my all time fave. I do like my watch as well.
I know I just slagged it from going about barely up in Berlin,
but it's the only watch that had the capability of keeping a
charge the entire lengths of MD's that didn't need, you know,
a separate charger. There was guys carrying like 500
gram chargers on their backs and stuff like, you know, and solar
chargers and like, you know, you know, you're like you're cutting
these strips straps off your bag to reduce the weight and stuff
like that. You know, and these guys are
kind of use big lithium bags and I wonder why they kind of get
their bag below 10 kilos. What What make was your bag and
what is it? It's it's it's called ultimate
direction. It's one that's kind of like not
designed specifically for MD's, but it's it's right up there
with the top three most popular bags for MD's.
The multi day event take take bag in ultimate reject ultimate
direction 25 litre. It's just as perfect in every
way. So that would be me.
Oh my latest bet fancy kit is my North face trainers.
The are absolutely amazing. Can't remember making them Chou
shoes a those ones that kind of a bit rounded at the bottom and
they're bit kind of rocky. They're absolutely amazing.
And maybe answer this, when you're out in the desert in the
Sahara and Morocco, or in the streets in Irving, what do you
think about when you're running a?
Why very different things when you know?
Is it survival in both places? I I mean usually nothing stuff
like it's like as long as I can run faster than and then I'm
fine. No, I mean the day.
The day is not like joking aside, see you see you take away
all luxuries, all mod coins, everything you're stripped
better the back boat. You know everything's gone your
phone. There's no Internet, there's the
Facebook and social media. There's nothing known about
tech. You've got your watch and that
is right. It's so liberating your mind
just goes nuts. See the dreams you have it's
just because you've you've got this extra headspace.
So your mind goes on your overload.
Don't get me wrong, when you're running, it's all about in the
moment and checking peace, keeping an eye on fluids.
You're always managing, you know your situation at that moment in
time. Do you have enough fluids to get
to the next day station? Yes, no.
If no, what you're going to do, but you know it's that kind of
thing. Is that thorn in your shoe
really a big problem? Do you need to stop or are you
going to hike this engines, you're going to run them, blah,
blah, blah, blah, blah, which appears like, so that's always
keeping you busy. But generally running about for
me is to be better. I think I do.
I do when I'm swimming as well. I do a lot of problem solving in
my head. If I'm being truthful, I think
swimming is easier to do it because you're taking away some
of the other environmental distractions when you're in the
pool. But I found I do a lot of
problem solving on a kind of professional level or you know,
even kind of personal stuff, family stuff.
If you're just struggling with our situation.
I try and devote that time. I don't listen to music at all,
ever. So I'm always, I'm always
listening to what's going on. As I say, trying to try to solve
the next problem. It's just around the corner.
And you may have just answered my next question.
When you're swimming, do you cross train?
Do you? What do you do when you're not
running? So I try mate, I do try.
I'm, I'm not the one who's worst, but I'm fairly typical
and see if I'm injured. I'm like the most popular guy in
the pool, you know, You know, I'm like there twice a day.
It's like, oh, you're back again.
Yeah, surprise, surprise, you know, limping in the pool.
So I'm kind of bad in that respect.
I'm a fairly decent swimming. I don't do enough of it and I
love it. But it's because running just
takes up so much more time. I do try and make time on a
Monday to get out on the bike if it's the road again, be honest
with you. I prefer mountain bike because
you can spend less time on it, you know, up down the trails and
it'll be a bit more technical time permitting.
So I do try and do the three disciplines.
Not as much as I would like to perform in truthful, but then it
hits winter and I tend to get on a static bike a hell of a lot
more as well. So and nice segue actually,
because I know one of the questions, what's next?
So I am doing I've been more triathlon in September.
So you've. Read my mind there.
I was going to say, have you done a triathlon or?
So the answer, yes I've done 1. I did Bishop Briggs years ago
and loved it. Go and ask me why I've never
gone back and done another one. Loved it, enjoyed it, did really
well at it. Say decent swimmer, no bad
runner, haven't really invested in the bike.
You know like a 20 year old Carrera.
That's an utter embarrassment. But I took it along and I did
all right, you know, and the results speak for themselves.
So I'm going to spend a bit more time on the swimming and the
bike in preparation for a bit more, mate.
Back to your point, I'm going to be a lot more focused.
There isn't a full triathlon. It's kind of like, I think it's
a kilometre swim, 18K and A12K run, but it's all trail.
So you're on a mountain bike, not a road bike, you know, You
know, it's a trail run, not a road run.
So I think that's my style of a running and biking quite good.
Would you ever fancy Iron Man or help Man?
No in two for that shit like that, absolutely.
Not too old. Maybe you've never seen ever.
I've got a a deep question for you that I find it sometimes
awkward to ask, but who would you like to run with, either
alive or not, fictional or not? Bill disclosure, I did see these
questions yesterday, right? And a, I've just finished this
book. Going to think where am I going
with this? But it's so relevant.
It's so relevant to me. Most of the listeners of yours
will never have heard of them. They might have, but a, so the
book is The Forgotten Highlander.
So this is a chart called Alistair Arquet and let me just
read, if it's OK. Can I read the summary the intro
to the book? Yeah, when you go so.
So Alastair Arquette was a soldier in the Golden
Highlanders, captured by the Japanese in Singapore.
He not only survived working on a notorious bridge of River
Kwai, but he was subsequently taken on one of the Japanese
hail ships, which was about torpedoed by the US Nearly
everyone else on board died, and Arquette spent five days alone
on a raft in the South China Sea.
Shark infested, I should say, before being rescued by a
whaling ship. He was then taken back to Japan
and then forced to work in a main near Nagasaki.
Two months later, nuclear bomb dropped just 10 miles away.
And he felt the heat from that bomb, right?
There's something a bit. So when you listen to that off,
that just scans the surface, right?
Suck some of the stuff he endured couldn't repeat right,
because it wouldn't be fit for for for for listeners
consumption. It's it's horrific, right.
And I genuinely just finished it last week.
So I saw that question who you run?
I run with him and we're doing nothing.
Talk about that, that that survival instinct and, and, and
you know, when you're when you're at bridge of work, you're
crying out your cornflakes, you know, thinking the world's over
and everybody owes you something.
I would just I would love to hear his story in person.
He died many years ago. I think he died in the late 90s
or early 2000s ended up being a sheep farm on the sky or
something like that. But so, so, so think about
taking prisoner of war, which in except, you know, that that was
concentration camp they call stuff to survive in its own put
in a ship that the Americans torpedoed by accident because
the Japanese didn't put a put a first aid flag on it.
Anyway, he survived that. And then as I say #3 was he felt
the waft of the, of the atomic bomb and he survived that as
well. So I, I just think that was I, I
might have spent time with his company.
Good answer. That's a great answer.
Sorry it's not a jogi can I answer?
No, I think. It's a great answer.
The the the question is what do you want?
Not for the the generic. So yeah, good answer there.
You go. So have you got, you've done
pretty massive events, you've done London, you've done Berlin,
you've done MD's, have you got other bucket list races now that
left the tick off OK. I think if I start talking about
those type of events in the house so soon, I'd probably
shown the door, but between you, me and the listeners, a maybe
something like Moab 240 or bad water.
Now, I don't haven't looked in detail on the entry requirements
to these events. I know Debbie Malan Kasani has
done bad water obviously and and hard and I had a chat offline
and kind of lead up to MD's and what have you, you know, so so I
know there's a. Sources of information, you
know, a close by, but those are the 2 events that kind of were
on my radar. Both hot events obviously, but I
think with the right training, I think I do prefer the hotter
stuff. The colder stuff doesn't appeal
to me. I'm being honest.
And, and stuff in the jungle and all that I don't know can be
bored. Clamber, nothing done.
Tropical rainforests, you know, for nearly two weeks in the
middle of Peru. I did at one point but no.
I think something like Moab or or bad water might be on the hit
list at some point before I'm 55 going.
Back to the roads, do you have a desire to complete the majors?
No, I don't, don't Nikki. I was trying to convince my wife
to go to Japan next early next year.
Didn't he tell it was to do? I was like special birthday pet,
we'll go we'll go to Japan in Japan.
It's like, oh, just lovely. I've been looking at it a lot
lately, you know, but see try to get Japan a Tokyo.
Sorry, try to get in. It's just again, they seem to be
like that. I won't bore you with too much
person. I mean, I might experience same
issues with more than bad water, but don't like it all political.
But I've been to Cuba a few times and in doing so, it makes
getting into the States quite difficult.
Yes. So the lives that are on with
they've all done Boston, Chicago and and what have you.
And I don't know if I'm a subconscious, I'm not interested
in them because just because I know the hurdle that I need to
go over. I mean, you've got to go in
person at the US Embassy, all the family to be personally
interviewed and all that. And I don't know, that just
seems like a bit abolic too far for me.
But as I say, I'll probably, I might experience that.
I think considered more but or bad water, but I don't know,
maybe maybe the political situation would have changed by
then. Who knows?
Rule the rules relaxed. But as it stands at the moment,
it's pretty tough. No, no, if you unless you get
rid of a certain person in charge of America at the moment,
well, we're not going to that one.
No, no. I.
I went to Cuba and my passport expired, say, a year later, and
then I went to America, but because my I didn't have the
stamp of my passport, they didn't know.
Oh right OK mate that's interesting because mine is also
expired so I went. I remember saying you met that
Danish couple in Cuba like 12 years ago and we've been back
again two years ago, but I've since had a new passport anyway
so I totally digress from the subject.
I run immigration rules for the states random.
I've got one more question to ask.
I don't know if Nikki's got anything else.
No, she's not speaking up. OK.
If you could go back in time to 2013 when you were 39 and you
started running, what would be your biggest bit of advice that
you give to yourself about running?
Sorry I didn't prep you for this one because.
I know, I know, I know. It's a it's a good call.
It's a good call. It would be something like
invest in a research hydration nutrition earlier on in your
running career. I think I would be that I and
research and understand the importance of that.
I think that's the one element that was all of it trial and
error and up in the air. So I make a point of everybody
approach at the moment. I make a point that, you know,
kind of lean out almost like a formula, you know, 70 to 90
carbs. I never, you know, during
extreme exercise, beat training or racing, you don't and 4500
miles of fluids. You know, irrespective, I make a
point and really leave that point.
But I didn't have a clue when I was part and a way part runs on
my Todd and and writing up we flag packet plans on on an E4
sheet on how to do a Madison for myself as well.
So so I would I would just research and structure what I
was doing better. That's what I do.
I'd get myself a coach, Ryan Lama.
Right. I think I was going to wrap us
up. We've chatted away about
everything and nothing, probably lots of questions that you
weren't prepared for, but you answered them perfectly.
So from me, it's thank you Nikki for being Nikki.
Thank you, John for coming on and thanks everybody for
listening. So it's goodbye for me.
Thanks again mate. Thanks Nikki.
It's been a pleasure.