1 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,680 Hi and welcome back to Run Till You're Done. 2 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,680 Tonight I am joined by former Scottish Athletics chair, 3 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:41,080 current British Athletics Chair and the West West Island Way 4 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,560 race director. For quite a long time since I've 5 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,240 been involved anyway, or I think I got involved at the 6 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,040 transition, but we'll talk about that later. 7 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,880 So welcome Ian BE MB E. Thanks very much, Mike. 8 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,200 It's nice to be here. We'll, we'll get we'll jump 9 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:08,000 straight in and what's is your how did you get started in 10 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:13,320 running or sport athletics? Well, I'd always done sport 11 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,440 throughout school and football was my main thing and I played 12 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:21,520 golf in my teens as well. But as I went through uni, I, I 13 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,320 had a, I decided I wanted to do football refereeing and I did my 14 00:01:26,320 --> 00:01:30,880 qualification and things and started, started thinking about 15 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,320 would I, would I referee in leagues? 16 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:34,880 And I realized I'd lost an awful lot of fitness in the three or 17 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,720 four years I've been working. So I started running really to 18 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,840 get fit to allow me to referee football. 19 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,960 And so, so I referee Ayrshire amateur football for a couple of 20 00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:49,120 seasons while I was running with Troon Tortoise, the local club 21 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,240 at that time. And what I found was I really 22 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,520 enjoyed the running side, enjoyed the racing, enjoyed the 23 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,600 challenge, enjoyed the people. And I found the football 24 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,960 refereeing was just like, it was like working an extra day every 25 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,440 week, not just the game, but then the paperwork of having to 26 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,639 report yellow cards, red cards, all this kind of thing. 27 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,960 So, so I gave that up and just stuck with the running and, and 28 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,320 that was me, I was really into it. 29 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,320 I love, I've always loved racing. 30 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,920 I've loved, I've loved even the challenge. 31 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,800 The sessions on a Thursday night we used to go and six of us were 32 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,960 about the same standard and along the front of train wind 33 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,520 towing, trying to trying to beat each other up along the front. 34 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:30,800 Great fun. So that was that was my 35 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,080 background too. And that's a until until a few 36 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,920 years ago. I've been running ever since. 37 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,640 So do you still, I guess, if you're not running at the 38 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:42,480 moment, do you still have an involvement with your club? 39 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,160 Not really I've I've changed club a number of times as I've 40 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,280 moved house. I've tended to to go to the 41 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,680 local clubs. I was a member to Tortoises for 42 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:55,800 about 13 years and then I and I joined Central for a while when 43 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,680 we were in Falkirk. Good club and still a lot of 44 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:01,840 friends there. Moved further north. 45 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:03,480 I was a member of Strathairn Harriers. 46 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,480 I joined Harmony when we moved to Edinburgh. 47 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,600 I had a short spell at Portobello, then back to 48 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,400 Harmony. So I'm still a member of 49 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:12,880 Harmony. But see, I'm not, I'm not 50 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,920 running now so. So I don't really see them as 51 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:18,360 much, but I keep my membership going from. 52 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,040 I thought it was funny. You said that you didn't like 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,040 the paperwork involved in refereeing, but you're an 54 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,560 accountant by trade and you're a race director, so it's kind of, 55 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,160 it goes part and partial, doesn't it? 56 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,320 Well it does and I do think it will be the paperwork and the 57 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,200 admin and the bureaucracy that makes me decide at some stage in 58 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,680 the future. I've had enough of the the West 59 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,040 Tail and waste stuff. It does. 60 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,840 It certainly increased a lot. But we try and keep it as light 61 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:51,240 touch as we as we can while still being bit safe and making 62 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,680 sure we've got the right processes and procedures. 63 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,200 But it wasn't great fun if you had a if you had a sort of 64 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,000 Ayrshire local Derby and had about 10 cautions and then the 65 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,600 old days you didn't just tick a box, you to write a report of 66 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,640 each one and what happened and what the person did and could 67 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,240 take you all Saturday night as well. 68 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:11,760 It wasn't. It wasn't the best. 69 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,680 Well, I guess in the amateur leagues you wouldn't have VAR. 70 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:25,400 What do you see technology wise, things like that in running, 71 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,760 what have you got? Anything that you would see. 72 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,880 I, I think it's developed hugely since I started. 73 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:32,840 I mean, people forget now when you talk about it. 74 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,480 We didn't have GPS ES. I spent probably the first, 75 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,160 certainly 10 years, maybe 15 years of my time running with no 76 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:42,880 GPS ES. You just had to sort of look at 77 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,960 the map and work out how far you were running and you, you judged 78 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,360 your pace. You got to know your pace. 79 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,800 I could come out, come back and say I know I was running 640 80 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,280 fives there that so therefore take for an hour. 81 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:57,080 That was however much eight mile run or whatever, seven and a 82 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,480 half mile run. And that's the way I've always 83 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,160 filled out my training diary. So that's, that's quite a recent 84 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,200 innovation. And and you did get some 85 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,640 horrendously short courses and nobody was able to really 86 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,400 challenge them because nobody knew people could challenge all 87 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,280 of that. Now that's been a big 88 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:14,920 breakthrough. The, the whole thing for race 89 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:19,320 organizations so much easier now where in the old days we used 90 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,760 to, used to send, fill out a paper form, you sent a cheque, 91 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,120 you got you, you left put in a stamped addressed envelope and 92 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,120 you got the results back a few weeks later. 93 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,080 And you know, you compare it to now with the online stuff, it's 94 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,840 just so much easier and actually also easier for the race 95 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:37,480 directors because you get the money upfront. 96 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,600 The ultra world, there's much more demand. 97 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,200 It's just much, much easier. I think for everybody. 98 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,680 Technology has made a made a huge difference there. 99 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,560 I I guess you would have seen this more than me, but the first 100 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,760 first year for the remember the Hive and Fling I I could have 101 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,320 entered on the day if that was the case and then it just 102 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,720 exploded after that. Yeah, Well, I did the first Tail 103 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,760 and Fling in 2006 and there were seventeen of us. 104 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:08,160 I think maybe 18 started and 17 finished and then we all had a 105 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,400 beer and hotel and taint drum and then we just went home. 106 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,360 The train, that was it. There was a very simple race 107 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,120 that was the concept and I think it went to about 80 the next 108 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,240 year and just really took off after that. 109 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,280 So there's been a huge explosion, which is is great to 110 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:25,600 see. And I, I, Sandra and I often 111 00:06:25,840 --> 00:06:29,080 see, you know, we looked down lists of the likes of Glen Ogle 112 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,840 at the weekend and we don't actually recognize a lot of the 113 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:33,320 names because we're a bit away from it. 114 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,560 But I think that's good. People are coming through and 115 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,560 enjoying it the same way, same way we I've enjoyed all of my 116 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,680 running career. Yeah, I was just looking up, 117 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:50,600 it's try to look up how many started the fling the first year 118 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,400 that I did it. But it was, I'm sure it was 119 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,320 about 100. And I was just talking to 120 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,040 somebody the other day and they're saying how iconic things 121 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,400 like the the red carpet of the finish are. 122 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,360 I was like, well, that didn't exist. 123 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,600 You you got to the crossroads at Brodie's and that was it. 124 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:11,440 Yeah, it's all, it's all different. 125 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,200 And the evolved red carpets become a big feature. 126 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,280 And, but it's, it's only in relatively recent years it's 127 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,120 finished inside, by the way, because there was a few years at 128 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,600 finishing the road outside there I remember as well. 129 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,120 And, and these races have to evolve to, to cope with the 130 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:28,560 demand. We've had to do that in the West 131 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,080 Tail and where they swear the finish has changed And, and my 132 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,400 time has race directed as well. It's it's, it just makes it more 133 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,800 suitable for the numbers and the people that are coming through. 134 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,920 Hey Gordon, when did you start? Well, when did you start 135 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,920 running? It was 1990 I started running 136 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:56,600 and just towards the the back end of 1990 and I'd I actually, 137 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,280 that's not even strictly true. I ran a couple of marathons when 138 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,920 I was at uni, ran one when I was 18 and ran one when I was 19, 139 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,560 the one when I was 18, both Glasgow. 140 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,760 First one 1984. I trained properly all summer, 141 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,000 really comfortable run 335 or something. 142 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,640 I thought that was great and then decided to do it the next 143 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,480 year with a pal. Did no training at all when I 144 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,720 run on the Monday before it of eight miles and said well if we 145 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,840 could do 8 miles we could probably do 26.2. 146 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,720 And I don't think I've ever been as sore in my life. 147 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,800 I was sore for about a week after that, but then I had a bit 148 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,159 of a gap. So I I look on sort of late 149 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:38,440 1990s when I started and sort of took it up and I had about 30 150 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,240 years of running all sorts of races and all sorts of events 151 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,600 during that. During that time, what would you 152 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,440 say is your your biggest achievement that. 153 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:56,320 You've had, I probably remember most my fastest races, my best 154 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,000 ones. I did quite a lot of marathons 155 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,320 and a half marathons, but I never really, I never really 156 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,560 took much prayed to the wrong word. 157 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:06,920 I never really took much satisfaction from the fact I'd 158 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,960 done a lot because I think you can run a lot, you just slow 159 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,520 down. I always took more satisfaction 160 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,320 from the ones I did well and I think I'd I'd a spell roundabout 161 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,680 1996 to 98 when I set all my PBS. 162 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:26,640 I set APB of a 11751 for 1/2 marathon, which was I was 163 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,880 pleased with 59 O 7 for a 10 mile 3511 for a 10K. 164 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,720 So I was really pleased with all of them. 165 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,440 I just never felt I quite nailed the marathon. 166 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,200 I should have been made. My best had five marathons below 167 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,240 2 below 3 hours and my best was 256. 168 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,840 But I did feel when I was running this 117 half, there was 169 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,480 a kind of potential for a sub 250. 170 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,360 But it's it's one thing feeling it and it's another thing doing 171 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,960 it and I never, I never did that. 172 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,920 So these were probably the the things I look back on the 173 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,840 greatest satisfaction, my West Island where he finishes, I 174 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,000 always enjoyed. Again, I look at that and I 175 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,200 think when I see the times people are doing now and the way 176 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,680 they're training, I think, I wonder if I'd been training in 177 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:13,760 this environment where there's much more, many more people 178 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,480 going out and doing it. I might have been a bit faster, 179 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,160 but you always got a great sense of satisfaction finishing that 180 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,240 race as well. Yeah, I I guess there's always 181 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,200 the what if I did this? But it doesn't matter. 182 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,120 What if you did it? That is what you did so. 183 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,800 Exactly. And often think one of the 184 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,160 reasons I stopped running was because of my heart that as as 185 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,280 you know, and heart issues, and I often say sort of jokingly, if 186 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,640 I did the new super shoes and a decent heart, who knows, I might 187 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,240 have been these these Olympic athletes I'm looking at that I 188 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:46,680 might have been running alongside them. 189 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,320 So you just never know. You've just got it. 190 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:49,560 You've just got to do what you do. 191 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:53,800 And yeah, you know, a lot of people say if I hadn't the one 192 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,400 that the one that always makes me laugh is people who run, run 193 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,800 and say if I hadn't done that 30 mile or last week, I would have 194 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,080 been a lot quicker. I think well don't the taper 195 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,280 properly. Too your own fault you you knew 196 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:08,040 your race is coming up. Yeah. 197 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:13,240 Yeah, yeah. Rob who, you know, I've, I've 198 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,840 run with him a lot and there's a lot of things that oh, you 199 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,880 shouldn't be doing that. You should be doing this, but 200 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,880 no, he that's what he does and he's got the record. 201 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,440 So how, how can we criticize what he's doing? 202 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,560 Because nobody else has done it faster so. 203 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,160 Yeah, that's right. There's there's some people 204 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,040 though, I think if you look at the fast, the fast folk, they 205 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,640 know, they know how to train and they know how to train 206 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,920 specifically in peak for races. They're very good at that. 207 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,000 And I've always been really impressed with Debbie Martin 208 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,840 Kasani in that respect. Debbie, and I hope I'm not 209 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,880 jinxing Debbie doesn't really have bad races because she 210 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,440 trains properly. She doesn't sort of go out and 211 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,040 race every week. She, she sets out a races, goes 212 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,000 out and trains. I'm sure Rob's the same and 213 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:56,840 you've been the same when you've done that. 214 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,880 And, and if, if people just like racing, get out and be part of 215 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,200 the company, that's fine. But you can't really turn around 216 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,600 and say, why am I not getting faster? 217 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,000 So you've got to, you've got to cover properly is one of the 218 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,720 things I've seen from the, the, the real top athletes, the 219 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,000 Olympic athletes, they take three weeks off after the season 220 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,560 and they, they don't do anything. 221 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:18,320 They're recovering to come back so they can load properly again 222 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,000 and I'm a big believer. I think rest is underrated 223 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,120 amongst the amateur runners. We just keep doing it non-stop, 224 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,000 never have a break at all and wonder why we don't get any 225 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,200 better. Yeah, I I had a race, it's been 226 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,080 13 days now since I was racing and I've run once in that. 227 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,560 So that's I'm forcing myself to not do anything so. 228 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,800 Yeah, supported one of the West Taylor Manish Sandra that I was 229 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,000 helping her with and coaching her towards. 230 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,440 And I said the first thing we're going to do is have a two week 231 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:50,800 break. And she looked at me at the 232 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,400 beginning of January because you've just not had a break for 233 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,120 a long time. And I want you get into this 234 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,360 training session really, really fresh because it's going to get 235 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,000 quite intense and quite. And she did that. 236 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,200 I think she managed 10 days before she went back out 237 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,760 running. But she feed it made her body 238 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,200 fresh before she started and and she ran our best time that year, 239 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:15,560 which I think was significant. So on. 240 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,640 You're saying that you're not running anymore because of 241 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,600 health issues. Do you do? 242 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:25,200 Do you do any other exercise? Well, I do, I do a lot of 243 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,800 walking. I've since I've since I've had 244 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,000 the health issues, I've kind of set myself a target. 245 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,040 I've tried to walk 10,000 steps every day and I've done that now 246 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,360 for about coming up to three years. 247 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,040 So I've not missed a day. It's actually quite useful, 248 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,880 particularly I work quite a lot from home. 249 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,440 So it gets you, I find it, it forces me out the door. 250 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,960 I tend to walk for an hour in the morning, clear the head a 251 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,280 bit, which is good. I've also in the last few years, 252 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,920 particularly last two years, I've got much more into golf 253 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:56,520 again, which I hadn't really played a lot of since I was my 254 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,520 teens. And I'm really enjoying that 255 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,880 because it gives me the exercise but also gives you the 256 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,960 challenge. It's like it's got to, you've 257 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,120 got to think it through and puzzle it out and some days it 258 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:07,760 doesn't go well and I really like that. 259 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,920 I kind of The Walking you don't, you don't get that you're just 260 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,760 walking rather than have this, this sporting challenge. 261 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:18,480 But so say they're the they're the main 2 at the moment playing 262 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,600 a lot of golf actually. And I'm just taking invites of 263 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,640 people say, people say, do you want a game? 264 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,360 Here's it. I could fit it and go there and 265 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,240 go there. So I played, I played something 266 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,400 like over 30 different courses this year, including my own, 267 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,400 just getting out and trying to do that and it's been great. 268 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,800 It's thuddling seen some lovely places and played some really 269 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,680 really nice nice courses not getting. 270 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,400 Much better. Is there any courses that you 271 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,400 think I would love to run here? Well, do you know, funnily 272 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,960 enough, funnily enough, I spent a lot of my time in Troon 273 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,360 running on Royal Tune. So I feel I know Royal Tune, 274 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,080 although I've never played golf on it because it's quiet. 275 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,640 That was one of our roots and also Western Gales, which goes 276 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,160 up to Irvine. There's a sort of what we up the 277 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,440 dunes up there. So I've already spent quite a 278 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,080 lot of time running in these golf courses that and they make 279 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,600 they make cracking sessions because the surface is different 280 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,600 trail up and down as well. So yeah, and often often enjoyed 281 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,080 enjoy doing that. Right. 282 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:21,800 Again, getting back to formal things, Scottish athletics was 283 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:26,720 your your former role. I would say job is not a job 284 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:32,080 because you're, you're an accountant for Lindsay's, but 285 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,320 you, you were chair of Scottish athletics. 286 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,600 What did that involve? Well, the chair rogue's a non 287 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:44,240 executive 1. So my role is really to lead the 288 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:46,560 sport but offer support to the chief executive. 289 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,200 That's the kind of key thing. So to work on the strategy for 290 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,280 the sport and I think I, I worked with 3 chief executives 291 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,960 sort of, they're all all very good and very strong. 292 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,120 And what we were totally focused on was a strategy of trying to 293 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,320 focus on club development through the clubs and, and work 294 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,480 with the clubs. And we had some, some brilliant 295 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:10,960 success, a lot of great work across the Scottish club, some 296 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:12,440 really good people within the clubs. 297 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,760 And, and we recognize that as a small governing body of about 30 298 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,320 people at the most, most of whom weren't full time, there's a 299 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,920 limit to what you can do. But if you can help provide 300 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,320 support, guidance to the thousands who are in clubs all 301 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,000 across Scotland, you start to achieve great things. 302 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,600 And I think I think we've seen that. 303 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,760 I think the Scottish club structure is the envy of 304 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,080 certainly the envy of the rest of the UK is, is fantastic. 305 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,440 And I was at AI, was at a Scottish athletics event at the 306 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,240 weekend across country at Kirkcaldy. 307 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,240 And just the, the camaraderie that way, everybody works 308 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,560 together, it's fantastic. I really like going to these 309 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,000 events and to see it. So that that was our main focus. 310 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,400 But there's also this of being the leader of the sport, leading 311 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:01,360 the leading the board, making the decisions that need to be 312 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,480 made. There's the admin side of that. 313 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,119 So there's all the accounts signing off and and so on. 314 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,920 We had to see the sport through COVID, which was challenging 315 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,960 and, but, but I think it was all about setting a culture where 316 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,440 everybody felt part of something that was really important. 317 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,079 And members of Scottish athletics watching Laura Muir 318 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:25,599 winner our Olympic medal in, in, in Tokyo and thinking she's one 319 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:27,440 of ours. I'm part of that and I, I love 320 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,120 that. I love that, that everybody's 321 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,680 very much in together. I think that we we managed to 322 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,160 get that culture working really well. 323 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,640 How do you find? How do you think things have 324 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,080 changed from before COVID to now? 325 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,880 Not, not meaning how, how did you cope with COVID because 326 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,480 that's a whole other story, but how? 327 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:51,560 How's it changed since? I think I think the sport's kind 328 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,680 of getting back to know where it is. 329 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,360 I think there was a bit of a drop off in the early days of 330 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,760 numbers entering races across the whole of the UK and I think 331 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,040 that's because people had got used to doing their own 332 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,560 challenges. So they'll think about, I can 333 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,720 actually go and run marathon distance and I'll just do it in 334 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,880 my garment and I don't need to pay money to enter a race. 335 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,600 But I think that's changing. I, I think the trends and 336 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,600 whether it's COVID related or not, Mike, I don't know. 337 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,200 But I think there's been a almost a flight to quality. 338 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,440 I think the really good events are getting more and more 339 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,480 popular. People want to do the really 340 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,760 good events, but if events maybe not quite at that standard, 341 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,800 different scale folk aren't doing the same. 342 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,200 So the likes of the London Marathon retains its popularity, 343 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,720 the likes of our W Tail and Various retains its popularity. 344 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,000 Loads of others fling you mentioned earlier on hugely 345 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,880 popular, but maybe some of the smaller races have been finding 346 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,760 it a bit more difficult and part runs made a difference. 347 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,280 That too because people can go and do a time 5K every Saturday 348 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,800 morning, whatever they want. So it's kind of taking the 349 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,920 market away for the more traditional club type 5 and 10 350 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,800 KS, I think. I've heard that fact. 351 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,880 If you want to call that about Park Run it, It has increased 352 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,640 the participation, but it's decreased people going to races 353 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,200 because they're getting it for free. 354 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,080 So why wouldn't? You. 355 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,400 Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. 356 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,480 And I, I noticed that in days like the the days of the 357 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,520 Scottish National Cross Country Championship at Falkirk in 358 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,320 February. To me, that's one of the one of 359 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,360 the best days in the athletics calendar. 360 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,280 If if people haven't been there, I would say go along and run and 361 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,360 it's a fantastic experience to be national championship. 362 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:38,280 It's tough cross country stuff, but that that was one of the 363 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,760 pinnacles of the season. But you do sometimes go on 364 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,040 Facebook and you see people are not doing the cross country. 365 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,360 I'm doing a park run here and I think I, I just, I mean, folk 366 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:50,320 are free to do what they want and all the rest, but I think 367 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,280 they're missing out on that formal part of particularly 368 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,920 these events like that which are, are really special. 369 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,440 I think it up a great part of what we're all about. 370 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:04,720 Yeah, your your role in Scottish athletics. 371 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:10,200 I would say obviously successful because you went on and are 372 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,600 currently with British Athletics. 373 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,560 When I was doing doing my research, what's what's the 374 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,200 difference between British athletics and UK Athletics? 375 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,520 Are they the same thing? They're pretty much the same 376 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,360 thing. We've moved now more to UK 377 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:28,840 Athletics as as the brand. There's always been a bit of, 378 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,200 you know, what should it be And British Athletics became the, 379 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,200 the sort of brand and UK Athletics was the formal part 380 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,800 which the company was called and it just didn't really make a lot 381 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,880 of sense. So we've really been branding 382 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,280 very much UK Athletics now it's a bit fairer to the Northern 383 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,480 Ireland athletes as well because the the British part doesn't 384 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,120 include them and they are technically within within the 385 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:52,960 whole. So, so yeah. 386 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,480 So UK Athletics sits alongside Scottish athletics, England 387 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,160 athletics, Welsh athletics and Athletics Northern Ireland. 388 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,160 I think sometimes people think God sits on top and controls 389 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,040 them. But we're all organisations in 390 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,840 their own right and we all work closely together. 391 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:10,920 And the bit that UK Athletics does is the top end stuff. 392 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,400 So we do Olympics, World Championships, World Paras, 393 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:19,560 Paralympics and so on, World class program we manage, but 394 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,560 really the vast majority of the sport happens at the England 395 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,600 Athletics, Scottish athletics, Welsh Athletics level and so on 396 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,040 because that's the club piece, that's the development piece and 397 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,000 where where that all happens. But it's really important that 398 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,120 we work together and there's one pathway coming through. 399 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,920 So we try and do that and we now get the chairs of each of the 400 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,280 the home countries on the UK Athletics board to try and make 401 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,480 make sure we are much more joined up than we've possibly 402 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:51,960 been in the past. And is there, what are you voted 403 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,680 into that? Is it a chosen job interview 404 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:57,440 type thing? How do you? 405 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,960 Get yeah, yeah, I know it was an it was an application, an 406 00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,880 interview process to get that, that role. 407 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,160 So. And it's been quite it's been 408 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,040 quite difficult. UK Athletics wasn't in the 409 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,600 wasn't in the best position and it's been quite, it's been a bit 410 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,800 of a turn around, but I think we're making good progress. 411 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,160 It's encouraging to see. I've I've been working with 412 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,120 brought in a new chief executive, Jack Buckner. 413 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,080 He's been there over two years now. 414 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,720 We've got a chief operating officer, very strong legal 415 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,960 brain, Tom Solsbury, new finance person. 416 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,080 So it's a bit of a slimmed down organization, but really good 417 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,520 people and focusing on what we do. 418 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,840 The events side. We, we do events as well, the 419 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,400 Diamond Leagues, one of our old events, but we've this year put 420 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,840 that into a joint venture with London Marathon and Great Run. 421 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,480 So we're all, we've all got a thought of that now in terms of 422 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,400 the events that we do. And that's been good as well 423 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,880 that the idea being it'll make it more attractive working with 424 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,760 these partners to sponsors, broadcasters and so on. 425 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,560 So, so yeah, it's been, it's been, it's been good. 426 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,880 I mean, I've been lucky enough to go to some great places for 427 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,880 the events in Paris twice this summer for the Olympics and 428 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,200 Paralympics. It was in Budapest the year 429 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,680 before for the World Championships. 430 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,280 And I was, I was a joint chair of the steering group for the 431 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,800 Glasgow World Indoors, which was a real good experience as well. 432 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,280 Quite nice having one in your doorstep to travel to. 433 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,600 But so it's been, it's been a fantastic experience looking 434 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,080 back and all of that that has been quite hard work in terms of 435 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,920 restructuring the organization and sort of trying to make it 436 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:37,480 more financially secure. Is it a a time frame for your 437 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:43,160 role or is it like a like a job you're ongoing until you're not? 438 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,960 I, I'm, I'm appointed for four years. 439 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,600 I've, I've done just over three now. 440 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,760 So I've got one year of this term and then the potential to 441 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,680 be appointed for a second four year term. 442 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:59,320 So everything, everything going well, I'll be in post until 2029 443 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,560 would be when I would finish from that. 444 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,720 I think, and I'm not going to count my chickens because at 445 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,200 that elite level of sport, things can change very quickly. 446 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,320 But I think it's, I think it's good to get stability. 447 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,120 Athletics in the UK hasn't had much stability. 448 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,040 Senior levels have been a lot of change of chairs and chief execs 449 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,520 and so on. So I think it's good to get the 450 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,160 stability And so, and I think the board of that view. 451 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,120 So certainly I would if, if asked, I'd be very happy to stay 452 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,520 on the next four years as well. Good. 453 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:34,480 And do you have a a goal or multiple goals of what you would 454 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,360 want to achieve either within this in the next year or within 455 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:42,920 your five years, hopefully? I think I think some of our 456 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,360 direct goals, there's the goals that we can achieve within UK 457 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,800 Athletics and there's the goals that we can achieve working with 458 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,240 the sport as a whole, which is particularly in England given 459 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,840 it's so big. And I think on our side, UK 460 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,280 Athletics, the first goal is to get us back to being profitable 461 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,800 and that's really through attracting more commercial 462 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,040 interest into the organization through the joint venture that 463 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,400 we've now got in place. And we're on, we're making good 464 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,760 progress towards that. We're going to report our 465 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,360 results in the next couple of weeks and we're moving in the 466 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:15,800 right direction, which is good. I think in terms of this, this 467 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,000 the performance side, we've actually two really, really 468 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,960 successful championships at world level. 469 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,680 We, we, we get 10 medals in the Olympics in Paris, which that's 470 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,960 the best we've done since 1984. And we get 10 medals in Budapest 471 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,160 in the world as well, which I think shows it wasn't just a 472 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,840 flash in the pan. So we want to continue to see 473 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,440 athletes come through, come into our system, be well looked 474 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,920 after, capable of winning medals at the Olympics. 475 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:45,680 But the key bit for the sport as a whole like this is across the 476 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,520 whole of the UK is to get more and more people coming through. 477 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,840 People come in at the bottom, get a great experience through 478 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,560 the clubs and can develop all the way through. 479 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,840 And, and that's across all disciplines as well. 480 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,840 It's not just the running events, it's the the field to 481 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,360 where we've not been as strong. Traditionally a lot of our 482 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,800 success has been either in sprints or in middle distance 483 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,120 running. It's it's hard to think of many 484 00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,400 field athletes who have done well. 485 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,240 We've we've had a very successful hip athlete obviously 486 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,560 medal but we we don't have the same depth there and that that's 487 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,480 a challenge for the sport too. You, you obviously are 488 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,600 athletics, things like the Olympics. 489 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,840 How do you work with the committee for there's lots of 490 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,160 different sports that wouldn't fall under athletics? 491 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:33,640 How are you involved in that part? 492 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,680 Well, the Olympics, the the team that goes to the Olympics is 493 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,200 actually selected by the British Olympic Association. 494 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,080 It's all, it's a bit like the Commonwealth Games when it, it's 495 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,640 a Team Scotland team and the athletics body proposes the 496 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,360 team. I mean it's normally accepted 497 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,040 but it is a British Olympic Association team. 498 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,520 So our role is really to nominate and put forward and 499 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,280 then provide the staff, the support staff who'll be in the 500 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,400 village and the coaches and the nutritionists and everybody 501 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,800 who's who's around that. So we we work quite closely with 502 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,720 our partners. But The funny thing was when I 503 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,480 was out in Paris, you just become submerged in your own 504 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:10,960 sport. I think it's because athletics 505 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,520 is so big. I was at something, I think 17 506 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,520 different athletic sessions and I I kind of lost track of the 507 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,160 other sports that were going on at all. 508 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,880 A couple of receptions with my counterparts from other sports, 509 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,720 but you don't really see that much of them within there even 510 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,920 though you are all part of the same Team GB. 511 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,080 The things like the Commonwealth Games that is now coming to 512 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,880 Glasgow, is it this year or next year, How involved in that will 513 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,920 you be? It will be sort of on the edge 514 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:41,960 of that. That's, that's organized by 515 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,800 Commonwealth Games Scotland are probably the lead body working 516 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,360 with Glasgow Life and Commonwealth Games Federation. 517 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,840 It'll be a Scottish, English, Welsh and Irish team rather than 518 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,160 a British team. So we won't be part. 519 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,800 But, but because of the nature of it and I, I know the, I know 520 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:01,880 Ian Reed very well. He's the the main guy 521 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,880 Commonwealth Games Scotland and we'll work closely. 522 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,240 The the other thing that's important we work closely is 523 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,080 that immediately after the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, 524 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,160 we've got a European Athletics Championships in Birmingham in 525 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,640 2026. So they'll be within a sort of 526 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,520 three or four week window. And I think it's really 527 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,640 important for both the Commonwealth Games and the 528 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,160 European Championships that we make sure it's managed well and 529 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,600 athletes get the right chance to. 530 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,320 You're never going to get a marathon runner or run both of 531 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,080 these. There's not a marathon in 532 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,240 Glasgow but some of the longer distance race is more difficult 533 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,520 but we want the athletes to be able to take part in both if at 534 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,440 all possible. So that comes down to the 535 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,560 scheduling of programs and all the rest of it. 536 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,240 So I'm I'm sure we'll be working very closely with the 537 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,160 Commonwealth Games people. What? 538 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,000 What time of year are they both on it? 539 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,800 The the Glasgow Commonwealth Games is the end of July and 540 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,680 then Birmingham Europeans is the beginning of August. 541 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,960 So you'll have a lot of lot of work beforehand because you'll 542 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,120 be prepping for West Island Wave, which is longest day in 543 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,440 June. So talking about prep, when, 544 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,840 when does prep start for a race like that? 545 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,760 It kind of goes on throughout the whole year. 546 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,200 There's, I mean, if you, if you take the cycle, the race has 547 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,560 just finished. Usually by the time I go home, 548 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,040 I've provisionally booked the the leisure centre at the 549 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:27,720 finish. I've sort of got that in the 550 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,720 diary. You've said, I've said to the 551 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,040 timing people about the date for the next year. 552 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,680 So we've said to the the church we use at the church hall at the 553 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,280 start, we've kind of got that book. 554 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:39,640 So you've already kicked the thing off. 555 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,440 And then we have, we have two or three months where we have a bit 556 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,800 of a downtime, a bit of rest and then get ready for the whole 557 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,080 thing starting again. And with the entries opening in 558 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,000 November, that's now you mentioned earlier on technology. 559 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,520 That's now quite an easy process because the technology makes 560 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,120 that all so easy. But you still got to do a bit of 561 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,320 testing. And then we'll have this month 562 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,360 where people can enter all of the entries are reviewed by by 563 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,080 Keith Hughes. He goes through them all and 564 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,600 they checks everybody's done what they need to do. 565 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,400 And then we'll have the ballot early December, let people know. 566 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,880 And from then on, it's just different bits and pieces of 567 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,800 getting everything, everything ready ends up taking off all the 568 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,840 different bits and getting the permit and getting their, the 569 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,200 approvals you need to do and, and working our way through 570 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,520 that. So it's not, we've got a great 571 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,280 group of volunteers, all of whom know, know their own bits, know 572 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,600 what they do quite well. So it doesn't fall massively on 573 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,360 me, to be honest. I, I tend to deal with the, the 574 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,880 runners and the money. I look after the money. 575 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,520 But, but we've got look after all the other areas as well and 576 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:45,760 they're able to get on with that. 577 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,880 We maybe have two or three online meetings a year just to 578 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,840 check in really where we're all at. 579 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,000 And it's worked, it works well. People. 580 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,120 I, I worry every year before the start of it, is this going to be 581 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,040 the year for don't want to do it anymore. 582 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,840 And then this year it was, there was something like 270 entries 583 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,240 and day one. It was remarkable. 584 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,080 Actually, it gets more and more popular every year. 585 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,240 You obviously, you say you've got a team behind you. 586 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,160 It's not just you, it's the this teamwork makes the dream work, 587 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,400 as they say. Yeah. 588 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,680 And, and I think we're, I think you were really good at that. 589 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,200 We've got Sean who does all the medical stuff with Becks and 590 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,920 that works really well. John and Helen, the volunteer 591 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,360 side, they look after that. It's great. 592 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,840 Adrian looks after all the merchandising side, which is his 593 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,040 backdrop. Sandra does the social media, 594 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,560 you know, everybody does their own wee bit. 595 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,240 And it just makes it easier for, for us all that nobody's getting 596 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,880 burdened with the whole thing, which would be quite a big job. 597 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,000 I, I kind of keep an overview of it and there's bits of that with 598 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,960 against this sort of intangible, but really trying to keep the 599 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,920 culture of the race and the family feel is really important. 600 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,640 And that doesn't just happen by itself. 601 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,040 You've got to can sometimes work at that, make sure if there's 602 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,840 any online squabbles are taken down and just just making sure 603 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,960 that it all works and there's a bit of leadership from it as 604 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:08,120 well, which I think is important. 605 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,600 You said say part of your Scottish athletics role was 606 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,320 making them profitable. How? 607 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,400 How does things like cost rate? Races are not cheap to either to 608 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,520 enter or I'm sure they're not cheap to put on. 609 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,400 How is things divvied up? You're obviously paying for 610 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,000 halls, you're paying for tracking systems. 611 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:35,800 What other big costs are there? Well, we've, we've got costs the 612 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,480 likes of the goblets for the prizes is quite a big expense. 613 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,800 Although all of these would get helped by the people. 614 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,040 Glen Care and are are fantastic. Ron Hill have been big 615 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,920 supporters to us. So that helps when things like 616 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,200 race garments and so on that we do. 617 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,760 Yeah, it's premises accommodation. 618 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,400 We give a donation to for the upkeep of the trail that we 619 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,200 think is quite important that we, we make a contribution 620 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,400 towards that. And we've got all our ongoing 621 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,320 admin costs of safety costs. We hire 2 boats usually for Loch 622 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,160 Lomond. We've got safety teams out and 623 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,640 about. So we, we always, we always seem 624 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,760 to break even as, as we're not a commercial organization, we want 625 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,280 to break even with that. And the other thing we've been 626 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,640 quite clear of over the years is we don't want to become 627 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,680 dependent and sponsorship income that might disappear and then 628 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,120 give us a problem. So, so it's pretty much self 629 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,000 funding that try and keep the entry fee as low as we can. 630 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,080 I think we're 135 lbs this year, 137 unaffiliated, nothing. 631 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,800 I think compared to other events that rates quite highly for what 632 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,280 people get, but that'll cover the cost and we've got a wee bit 633 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,120 in reserve. If we end up having two course 634 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,200 records, that'll be an extra £3000 will be, I would love to 635 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,240 see it, but we haven't had to pay out one yet since we 636 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,040 introduced it. So, so it's it, it more or less 637 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,480 breaks even. We also we also the 638 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,920 merchandising, but we do helps subsidise a bit the cost as 639 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:07,720 well. Oh yeah, I was looking at some 640 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,320 previous podcasts that I've seen you on and Sabrina Virgie was 641 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,199 asking for a a place I was back in COVID times. 642 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,280 Any word from her now that the race has opened up again? 643 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,520 I've, I've not heard from her. Yeah, no, I, I just tend to just 644 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,400 have a look from time to time to see if anybody's, if anybody's 645 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,159 come along and entered. And and it it would, it would be 646 00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:33,719 nice to see, it'd be nice to see challenges for both the male and 647 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,320 the female records, that the female record stood for a long, 648 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,760 long time. And it's testament to Lucy going 649 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,880 what a great runner she was at a time when ultra running wasn't 650 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,600 as popular that nobody, nobody's actually even got particularly 651 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,280 close to it. It's not been, it's not been a a 652 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,960 close run thing yet. And I think we do feel that the 653 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,520 scope for someone, one of the top female runners to come along 654 00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,920 do that. I think Rob's is maybe more 655 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,960 challenging, you know interest and see if anybody can can get 656 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,240 near that again. Well, I can say that for for 657 00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:10,120 Rob's I, I, I'll take full credit. 658 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,320 It was nothing to do with his running. 659 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:17,360 He's yeah, that's easy. But I set out his plan and his 660 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:23,240 his plan was pretty much spot on for where I set it and I know 661 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:27,800 that he can take time off that. So I'll be nice to see, nice to 662 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,960 see. We'll we'll see some of some of 663 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,960 the other ones when you're away on events. 664 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,080 I heard your name drop in Paula Radcliffe before. 665 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,120 Any update on her whether she's going to enter the race or not? 666 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,920 She never really shown a great deal of interest. 667 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,760 We, we did have one night at the Scottish Athletics dinner where 668 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,600 my, my last memory before I went to bed was Sandra in the bar 669 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,280 with Joe Pavey trying to persuade her to come along and 670 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,400 do the West Island race. And she remembered, actually I 671 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,760 saw Joe in the Diamond League London and she, she remembered 672 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,240 it, but hasn't, hasn't shown any great interest to come in. 673 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,560 I mean, I would love to see what happened if one of our kind of 674 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:14,240 real top track runners during runners had a had a go and what 675 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:16,560 they could do. And I mean, there's much to see 676 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,640 how, how good is Rob's time? How good is Lucy's time? 677 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,120 Some comparison because you know, if I, I don't know if a 678 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,680 Callum Hawkins said I'm going to train for the next six months to 679 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,920 do the West Highland areas. What could, what could some an 680 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,840 athlete like that who's clearly a one of our top, one of our 681 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,240 best of our Scottish endurance runners, what could they do? 682 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:38,760 I don't think we'll see it, but it would be fascinating if we 683 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,280 did. Yeah, I, I guess it's difficult 684 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,080 sometimes when training for the West Island way, that's 685 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,880 basically taking your whole year out to train for it, where say 686 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,040 1/2 marathon, you're probably doing other races during that 687 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,920 time. So you're almost saying you're 688 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,840 not taking the whole year out because you're doing the other 689 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,000 races, but there's only certain races you can do when you're 690 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,000 training for almost 100 miles. Yeah, yeah. 691 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,680 And the real, the top, the guys at the top end up get the same 692 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,120 issues that they're getting paid by sponsors to go to the UT, MB 693 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,840 S and the other big races that they're sponsoring. 694 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,840 So that will always affect our field. 695 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,040 But having said that, we've had some really top quality runners 696 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,680 of from the West Hailey Way over the years and and it's great to 697 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,120 see when they do come along. Yeah, you're saying people get 698 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:28,880 sponsored. The race is obviously sponsored. 699 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:33,120 Do you want to shout out who who they are and what sort of 700 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,560 involvement they have within the West family? 701 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,440 Yeah, our, our, our key sponsor has been involved for around 20 702 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,240 years, has been Ron Hill. Ron Hill have been, have been 703 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:49,440 really supportive to us and and their brand fits quite well. 704 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,040 They're quite understated. They don't insist we put big 705 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,560 adverts up in, in Glencoe and things like that. 706 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,400 They're just quite happy to be part of the community. 707 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,400 So they've been great. Glencare and Crystal have been 708 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,520 very supportive for many years as well with the goblets. 709 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,680 They they subsidized them heavily has been, has been first 710 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,960 class and we got a lot of help from other other smaller peers 711 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,760 that say that the Real Food Cafe in Tandrum is always very 712 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,720 helpful. A we, we just, we just got a lot 713 00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:27,600 of support from local, local businesses and local people that 714 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,520 we do. So that's been that's been the 715 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,240 main sponsors. Ron Hill particularly would I 716 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:40,280 would single out. You're one of the you're race 717 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,800 director for one of the biggest races in the UKI would say. 718 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:49,560 But being so high up in British athletics, it's probably what's 719 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,560 more stressful, British athletics or being a race 720 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,760 director. I, I don't, I don't really find 721 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,880 the race director a bit stressful at all. 722 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,040 I, I find it one, I love the West tail and race weekend. 723 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,000 It's one that's my favorite weekend of the year. 724 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:11,000 It's great out there, you know, getting, getting late at 3:00 in 725 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,160 the morning, being out in Balmaha. 726 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,680 I just love it. Then same it in the same and at 727 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,560 the other end next day. And we've just got such a good 728 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:24,640 team that the race day itself isn't particular if everything 729 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,960 goes OK, it's not particularly stressful. 730 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,200 This year we had one a bit of thinking to do because of the 731 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,080 there was a fatal accident sadly in Glen Cohen. 732 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,320 So we had to think our way through how we would deal with 733 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,720 that, the communication. But it all worked from our race 734 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,400 point of view really quite well. And, but I mean, ultimately, 735 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,000 Mike, if, if we didn't have something like that, the race 736 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,400 could go ahead if I wasn't there, which is the way it 737 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,640 should be. It's, it's, it's not dependent 738 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,280 on me being around. And that means I can, I can 739 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,400 enjoy it. I can kind of spend some time at 740 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,560 the finish and the team all know what they're doing and I can 741 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,000 spend some time down. It can luckily even and just be 742 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,640 keeping an eye on things that need to be done. 743 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,960 So, so it's very different. I mean the the UK Athletics role 744 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,280 is much more sort of I suppose. Higher profile, you tend to get 745 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,120 more criticism and depressed for things people have got a view. 746 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,720 It's it's I, I do probably look on that as work. 747 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,000 It's a job. It's, it's, it takes up quite a 748 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,200 bit of time and you know, we're, we're trying to work through the 749 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,360 financial side and, and the performance side and all the 750 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,320 rest of it. So, so I'm sure that's a bit 751 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,040 more stressful. They've always taken the view. 752 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:37,880 There's really I tend not to get overly stressed about these 753 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,960 things because you you can't. If you can't control something, 754 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,680 there's no point. And worrying about it has always 755 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:47,200 been my view for these. You've obviously got teams 756 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,880 behind you and teams of volunteers for West Haven Way. 757 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,880 How does somebody get involved with the race? 758 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,000 How do they volunteer for it? The we've got an online 759 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:03,000 volunteer portal, so if you keep an eye on the the website or the 760 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,800 Facebook page that that'll open up once we've got all the 761 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:08,920 entries sorted out. So it'll probably be in January. 762 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,200 So if people want to volunteer, please, please stick your 763 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,720 details in details of your experience and, and we'll, John 764 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,920 and Helen, I'll get back. We do tend to be, I mean, it's 765 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,600 remarkable actually. We do tend to be oversubscribed 766 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,320 for the volunteers too, which is incredible. 767 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,040 People just want to be part of the event and they want prepared 768 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,440 to give up the weekend to volunteer, which I'm always in 769 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,800 awe of. It's a it's a great crowd and 770 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,400 really adds to the whole the whole atmosphere of the race. 771 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,480 I guess it's it's no bad thing that you get too many people. 772 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,000 You you want that? It's. 773 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,080 Yeah, and we can usually use people. 774 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,440 So we try and we try and offer support to the overseas runners 775 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,200 in particular who find it more difficult to get crew. 776 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,160 So people can do that. That's great. 777 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,800 And I know, I know some of the volunteers have made lifelong 778 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,840 friendships through that from looking after athletes have come 779 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,160 over. It's a really nice bit of the 780 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,000 race and there's lots of other rogues as well. 781 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,920 So yeah, so please, if if you're interested, stick your details 782 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,040 in it. It's and I'd say particularly if 783 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,040 it's a race that you've got ambitions sometime the future to 784 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,800 run, it's a really good way of getting a feel for what it's all 785 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,840 about. And you'll you'll know from your 786 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,400 time up in Jelly Baby Hill, you see an awful lot of it and you 787 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,080 get a real good idea of what you need to do to take partners. 788 00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:31,560 First time I tried to run it, I'd never really seen it. 789 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,120 I just turned up but no idea what I was doing and I think you 790 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,640 would learn a lot from either crewing, supporting, or 791 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,960 volunteering on it. So when was the first time you 792 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,160 were involved in the race? My my first attempt was in 1998 793 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,160 and that was the first year I tried to run it. 794 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,960 I I dropped out at Tain Drum. I just was completely 795 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,720 unprepared. Done most of my trained the road 796 00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:56,960 and I went away. I supported some in 1999 and I 797 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,360 came back in 2000 much better trained, much better prepared 798 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,040 and with a very different mindset of what I was going to 799 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,360 do in 1990. I was just about, oh, can I 800 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,920 finish this? I came back in 2000 with no, I 801 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,560 can do this and I can do it in under 24 hours. 802 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,600 So some respects, I think I'm pleased that I wonder if I'd 803 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,760 finished it in 1990, if I just have thought that was me kind of 804 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,200 30 hours and never get any better than that. 805 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,920 Instead, I had to go back to the drawing board and look at how to 806 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,680 do it differently. How many times have you done it 807 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,320 since? I finished it 8 times and I had 808 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,360 well at 1998, I didn't finish it. 809 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,400 I didn't finish. I dropped out one year in 2008, 810 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,040 which was a disaster. I just don't know what was wrong 811 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,720 that day. And the last year when I was 812 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:46,640 involved in the organizing, I, I was also running, but to be 813 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:47,880 honest, my head just wasn't in it. 814 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:54,120 I got to, I got to Victoria Bridge, that sort of area beyond 815 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,840 Bridge of Orkin. I just, I was, I was more 816 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,320 interested in what was happening, the finishing. 817 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,800 I said I'm just going to pack it and I could have finished that 818 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,480 one, I think. But just so it's three very 819 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,800 different DNFS as well as the finishes. 820 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,600 Do you think if you weren't, if for some reason you weren't the 821 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:16,880 race director as of you jacked it in the the summer that was 822 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,960 the last one you're doing, would you do the race again? 823 00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,360 I, I, I, I, I think I would say absolutely not. 824 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,440 In fact, every year, I, I, I watch the people coming in and I 825 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:30,440 think, I, I don't stand there and think, I wish I was running 826 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:31,560 this. I stand there and think how 827 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,840 enough did I manage to do this eight times? 828 00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:37,560 Is, it's, it's so difficult. And we, we walked the West 829 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,600 telomere with friends and one of the COVID years just at one of 830 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,040 the gaps, the windows that we had, we walked in five days. 831 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,080 And our second day from Balmaha to Ben Glass farmer. 832 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,280 It was, it was really tricky. It was quite a hot day. 833 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,440 And we were all saying, how did three of us had run, three of 834 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,160 the four of us who were walking at all run it. 835 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,760 And we were like, can't believe how we managed to run this. 836 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,080 So, So no, I'm quite happy and I don't feel any, any regret at 837 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,560 all. I think I've had my time, happy 838 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,200 to see new people come through and. 839 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,840 Do you think that your job as an accountant, your involvement, 840 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:18,560 various athletics bodies, has that influenced how you prepared 841 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,040 for the race? Yeah, I think it's I think it's 842 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:27,680 down to what it helps because the whole everything about the 843 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,760 races, we want to put on a quality experience that that 844 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,440 people think is special and we want to keep evolving the race. 845 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,760 We're not going to grow the numbers, we're not going to 846 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,040 cheat, but we want it to keep evolving so that it become it's 847 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,200 a race that it's on people's bucket lists to do. 848 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:49,000 And I think my experiences and, and others experiences all help 849 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,680 towards that. We all, we all want to put on 850 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,760 the best organized race that we can. 851 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,040 And I, I've run it and I know the things that you want to know 852 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,960 as a runner, things like, you know, getting clear instructions 853 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,960 before you start. You don't want to buy it. 854 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,160 You want clear race rules. You you want everything to be, 855 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,720 you know, to to be just done properly so that that's probably 856 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:15,320 helped with the whole organization, but it's quite a 857 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,200 different skill. Maybe they're just the sort of 858 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,680 getting on with people and knowing how to defuse situations 859 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,120 and when you have to deal with them as as hell because you do 860 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,880 get time to time, you get you get situations. 861 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,680 What I've liked is the way we've been able over the years to 862 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,320 bring on board things like the communities. 863 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,520 You know, if we've had any complaints I'll go and see them 864 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,840 and speak to them and I can quite off. 865 00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,600 We've got, we've got one person who's now very much part of the 866 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,560 race who at first was watching it from the outside and you 867 00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,040 know, if you can bring people in and work with the communities 868 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:45,680 then we're achieving something really good. 869 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,960 Things like going back to big names. 870 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,120 Do you think the race needs that attention? 871 00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,320 No, I don't think it does. I don't think we do. 872 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,880 It's, it's, it's clear. It's still very popular. 873 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:09,680 We've got we've got a place and, and, and the ultra running 874 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:13,040 calendar. We always attract about 30 875 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,280 athletes from overseas. So about 10% of the field comes 876 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,960 from overseas. So people want to do it. 877 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:19,680 So no, I don't, I don't think we do. 878 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:24,280 And, and but it but it helps the prestige of the race. 879 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:29,560 I think to have big names and say we do get, we do get some 880 00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,480 with how corner a few years ago you may remember come over and 881 00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,640 that was quite, quite a great laugh with how he was, he was 882 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,280 brilliant. But people have heard of the 883 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,960 West Highland Way race and we've got we've got a great 884 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,880 relationship with the Western state to treat the West Highland 885 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:51,760 Way race as a qualifier for it. And yeah, it would be nice. 886 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,560 But if we don't, we don't. And the race is about the people 887 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,560 running it regardless of where they are in the field. 888 00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,080 We don't need, we don't need the big names at the front. 889 00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,160 Yeah, I guess it's good the race has got the reputation for 890 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,760 itself, not for who's run. Yeah, Yeah. 891 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,560 No, I think that's right. And it's, it's a, it's a 892 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,400 beautiful route. It's it's, it's tough, but 893 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,200 runnable, I think it's probably fair to say. 894 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,920 And yeah, you, you summed that up well. 895 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:24,080 It's been going a long time now and as a reputation for for what 896 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,520 it delivers. Yeah, question that I got asked 897 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:33,240 when I was getting interviewed was how many spreadsheets do I 898 00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:35,200 have for a race? So I'm going to twist it. 899 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,280 How many spreadsheets do you have for if you were running the 900 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,520 race and how does that compare to your race directing 901 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,120 spreadsheets? I I probably did a lot more when 902 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,320 I was running it. One of the things, one of the 903 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,960 things I need to do this is this may horrify you, given my 904 00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:53,520 background. I'm probably not the best 905 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,520 paperwork person, you know, I'm not a I'm not a sort of 906 00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,520 procedures, manuals and all the rest I probably do need. 907 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,080 Every year I say I'm going to write down everything I do every 908 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,480 stage because an awful lot of this and in my head I do it at 909 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,440 the same time every year. You just work through. 910 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,320 I really should set down a big list. 911 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:14,600 So I don't have many spreadsheets for the race at 912 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,280 all. I'd much more when I was running 913 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,440 about where I wanted to be and what I wanted to do. 914 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:25,800 And since you've taken over the race, whether it's technology or 915 00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,160 whatever, what's the biggest thing that you've seen change? 916 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:34,000 I think the equipment that the runners have, I think that's 917 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,440 probably from looking at it. If I say I was running up to 918 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:42,520 2009 was my last finish and then I, I 2010 was the first year I 919 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,360 was involved in the organizing of it. 920 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,720 The, the kit that people have has changed quite dramatically. 921 00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:51,640 So the race vests are a big step forward. 922 00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,720 The, the shoes are much better than they were. 923 00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,960 The kind of just the various equipment when you, if you look 924 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,080 at an ultra runner out now in one of these runs, it's probably 925 00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,000 not compatible to when, when, when I was doing it. 926 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,280 So that that's been a big, a big, big change. 927 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,400 I think there's unfortunately been a sort of increase in the 928 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,560 bureaucracy around organizing any event and we've tried quite 929 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,280 hard to sort of keep that sensible. 930 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,400 But there's things that you need to do now and you just, you 931 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,760 know, you just need to have and getting the approvals and 932 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,960 permissions and so on. That does make it a bit more 933 00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,440 difficult. But I think I think we are quite 934 00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,720 fortunate when the race takes place. 935 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,720 So the fact that starts at 1:00 in the morning, we're almost 936 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:36,320 undercover until the fields well spread out the next day. 937 00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:39,440 And that that's made that aspect of a bit easier. 938 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:42,440 The parking is a challenge, always a challenge with the cars 939 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,600 and I I think the supports an important aspect of the race and 940 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,040 helps the family feel. But there's no doubt that that 941 00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,560 part of it does does meet probably probably the hardest, 942 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,760 but actually for us making sure places for cars to go and don't 943 00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:58,320 cause chaos and all the rest of it. 944 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,440 There's always things throughout the race that are changing, like 945 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,440 this year instead of going passed by the way you went to 946 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,960 the hotel in Tindrum and used the car park there. 947 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:16,560 Is there anything you can see changing in the years to come? 948 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,200 Stopping it, check. Stopping people going to 949 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:25,120 checkpoints or what change can you see happening? 950 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,560 I think we'll stick with the Taint Drum one. 951 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,320 I think that was a big success and not not only for the car 952 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:36,000 parking, but I, I would really like to see, I would like to see 953 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,000 Taint Drum as a village sort of all must have a W tail and way 954 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,160 day, a bit like some of the villages in the Alps do for UT 955 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,080 MB where they make it a big deal. 956 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,680 And the time that people come through Taint Drum works for 957 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,920 that because it's kind of all in daylight hours, the time they 958 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,360 come through. And they say that the Real Food 959 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,600 Cafe, I think is quite interested in that as well, 960 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,360 particularly as we're going right past our place now and all 961 00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,880 the rest. So I could see us maybe do a bit 962 00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,480 more of that and become more absorbed in the kind of 963 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,280 community. You could see maybe the same in 964 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,920 Kinloch leaving, although you don't want to be too involved 965 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,440 during the nights. There's there's nothing else 966 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,400 dramatically there. I think we'll just continue to 967 00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,800 try and evolve and change things. 968 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:18,440 We had to change the finish a few years back to and that's 969 00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,840 been a big success as well. Having more room at the at the 970 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:23,640 nervous center. It means we've got to finish the 971 00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:27,120 prize giving all in one place. It's much better facility for 972 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,800 us, for people arriving as well. But we'll keep looking at things 973 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,960 like that now. You can see, I mean there there 974 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,440 will be pressure on some of the checkpoints, particularly 975 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:37,960 getting access to land. We've already had to change over 976 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,640 the last number of years, Ben Glass, where we can't like crew 977 00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,200 in. It's just too dangerous trying 978 00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,720 to get people on and off that road. 979 00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:47,040 But we'll just keep looking at that and see what we can do. 980 00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:52,800 I I guess things like that you can only change them as the as 981 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,520 the problems occur, you can't predict them. 982 00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:01,040 No, no you can't. And and, you know, you could try 983 00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,400 and look and see where, where, where do the issues arise and 984 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,200 what would we do about them? Somewhere like Line Co, car 985 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,680 parks, fantastic, loads of space, a big checkpoint, never 986 00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,160 had any issues there. But there are points in the 987 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:15,040 route where it's a bit more difficult, a bit more 988 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,120 challenging, get folk in and out. 989 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,480 So we keep an eye on that, see what we can, we can do, yeah. 990 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:25,240 All right, thinking about the race, whether it's when you were 991 00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:28,600 running it or when you've been resurrecting, what have you got? 992 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:35,920 One standout moment of the race that is your stand out memory 993 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:40,200 for. I probably get loads, but 994 00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:44,680 there's one I remember one year I was, I was getting near the 995 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:47,320 end at Fort William and I'd come through. 996 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,760 It's all quite different because there used to be a lot of trees 997 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,120 as you come into Fort William. I mean the bit from London Fry 998 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,000 is now all cleared. But that, that was all forest 999 00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:58,840 and my day. So your last section was got 1000 00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,640 dark quite early because you'd know natural lights the minute 1001 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,160 the light went away start. So I was getting through there. 1002 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,200 One year I had my head torch on. I come out to the hill at the 1003 00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:13,160 top where you see Fort William and I, I thought there's enough 1004 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:14,680 light, they don't need my head torch. 1005 00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:16,880 And my head torch actually failed. 1006 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,040 The batteries gave up. And George, who was supporting 1007 00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,520 me, his torch gave up at the same time, which was quite 1008 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:26,200 bizarre. And I thought, that's fine, I 1009 00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,240 don't need to change the batteries, there's enough 1010 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,520 natural light. The moon was quite bright, so 1011 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,520 we're in down. And it was only when again I 1012 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,280 realized I checked my batteries. I'd been carrying AAA batteries 1013 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,320 and my torch to AA's the whole way through. 1014 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,160 Could have been catastrophic if my torch had failed 15 minutes 1015 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:43,880 earlier. I've been stumbling through that 1016 00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,720 forest, not able to see a thing. And I see you just remember 1017 00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:50,240 things like that. Absolutely basic schoolboy 1018 00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:52,120 errors. You think I've done this race 1019 00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,080 hundreds of times. I should know that I batteries 1020 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,240 for my my head torch. So. 1021 00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:58,480 And there was one year as well, Fiona. 1022 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:02,080 And he tells this story too, where we were running up between 1023 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,760 Tyndham and Bridge of Orky and we were passed by all these 1024 00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:10,640 people and these these sort of individual scooter things 1025 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,480 kicked. There was about 30 people coming 1026 00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,880 the other way towards time. Drum and I sort of put out my 1027 00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,880 mind and we all thought we'd been hallucinating, but turned 1028 00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,160 out it was part of the Caledonian challenge and it was 1029 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,560 one of the sort of accessibility things they had to let people 1030 00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,720 who couldn't run on here. So they were they were all 1031 00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:29,320 there. That was a bit bizarre as well, 1032 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:34,920 yeah. One of the memories I have, it's 1033 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,880 not actually during the rest, it was in the the pub afterwards, 1034 00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,720 which is obviously a, a big family feel. 1035 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,760 And I was sitting chatting to yourself and you said that you 1036 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,360 saw me at Glencoe and I was running like I was going to win 1037 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:50,960 it. And sorry, I haven't won the 1038 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,320 race. I haven't done the race since 1039 00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,600 you said that. But I I've had influences on 1040 00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,400 people's races and Rob has won it. 1041 00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,160 So hope hopefully I've lived up to what you said. 1042 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,160 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And it's nice when I remember 1043 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:09,760 saying to Rob when he left, he left wonderful saying, Rob, 1044 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,240 you're on your way to make history. 1045 00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:14,160 And you wonder if there are not at that stage here, anything. 1046 00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,120 But you did comment afterwards that it gave him a wee bit of a 1047 00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,360 push, and it's nice when you think comments like that just 1048 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:23,760 make a difference. No, it's been what, at least 10 1049 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,760 years since I've done the race and I still remember that. 1050 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,800 So it's influential people like that. 1051 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:30,920 It's yes, they do make a difference. 1052 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:37,240 Yeah, right. Going back to we've obviously 1053 00:56:37,240 --> 00:56:39,000 just had good things, bad things. 1054 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,120 Is there anything that you would wish runners wouldn't do, 1055 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:44,520 whether it's in the rules, whether you've told them not to 1056 00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:49,320 do it and they still do it, or do you want people stop it? 1057 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,800 Yeah, I think, I think generally just want people to follow the 1058 00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,720 rules properly and to do it right and not not try and cut 1059 00:56:56,720 --> 00:57:01,200 corners that if we see runners who are quicker than 21 hours 1060 00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,920 haven't of support, don't try and push that by getting your 1061 00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,000 support to jump in for two miles when you think nobody can see 1062 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:09,840 you. That's it's frustrating for 1063 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:11,960 other runners. It's a bit disrespectful. 1064 00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,840 It's just a bit annoying. You do get it occasionally. 1065 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:16,880 I mean, that's why I've had to introduce. 1066 00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:19,920 You can go 1/4 of a mile out and a quarter of a mile up to give 1067 00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:24,520 stuff over, but don't, don't try and don't try and squeeze these 1068 00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,320 or bend these rules are there for a good reason and part of 1069 00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,000 the challenge is doing it properly. 1070 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:33,320 I think it's so so, yeah. But by and large that 1071 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:37,720 everybody's great and so gets on well, We have very few problems. 1072 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,040 It's a great crowd and everybody comes away enjoying it. 1073 00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,080 Yeah, you say part of the challenge. 1074 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,200 I think first year that I did it, I wanted to do it in 24 1075 00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:51,080 hours and it was, I'm going to say 22 1/2. 1076 00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:54,840 So success. The second year I wanted to do 1077 00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,800 it unsupported. I had my crew, they were meeting 1078 00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,000 me at the checkpoints, but I didn't want anybody to run with 1079 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,040 me, even if I was allowed a runner at the time. 1080 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,320 And back then it was if you were within 4 hours of the leader and 1081 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:11,920 I can't remember if I was or not, but I didn't want them to 1082 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,840 run with me anyway. So I actually MY2 crew, they 1083 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,200 were capable of coming and getting me, but they weren't 1084 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:22,520 capable of keeping up with me. So that that was my way of 1085 00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:24,760 saying right, you're, you're not running with me. 1086 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:26,600 So it was. It worked. 1087 00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:33,000 Yeah, yeah. So let me just go away, right? 1088 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,680 You've obviously got your your team, but things don't always go 1089 00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,320 to plan. Do you get nervous about things 1090 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:47,760 not going to plan? I, I would, I would like to 1091 00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:52,240 think that one of the reasons I've been quite effective in 1092 00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:56,440 these roles as that I can be quite logical and not panic 1093 00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:00,000 when, when something doesn't go to plan and you make sensible 1094 00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,320 decisions on it. And I think that's now if she 1095 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,720 said what, what do I bring to the overall thing is the sub 1096 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,360 leadership? But I would hope that's what it 1097 00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:10,040 is. You can step back and you can. 1098 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,000 So just say, right, OK, we've got to here. 1099 00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,400 Last year was a good example. We've got to there. 1100 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:21,000 We've got a problem with the with with the accident and it's 1101 00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:23,480 going to cause significant impact on the race. 1102 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,520 How do we deal with this? What do we need to do right? 1103 00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:28,880 We need to communicate. Let's make sure all of our 1104 00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,960 checkpoints know, let's make sure that the athletes, the 1105 00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,320 runners are carrying enough kit because they could be out there 1106 00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,640 a long time without seeing the support crew, right? 1107 00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:39,800 We've we've done that tick, right? 1108 00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,280 What else can we do? We needed at some stage to be 1109 00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,120 talking to the police about can we are you happy for us to get 1110 00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,280 people up to Glencoe if they come back down tech, You know, 1111 00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:50,480 somebody was dealing with that and it's almost just sort of, 1112 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,920 you know, you breathe aside and you just do all the different 1113 00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:57,040 bits and don't panic on it. And I think that's that's kind 1114 00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,640 of important. And because we've got such a 1115 00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,120 good team now, everybody's thinking the same way. 1116 01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,560 You've got reliable people who are at the checkpoints who 1117 01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:06,400 something arises, they know what to do. 1118 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,240 They know the sensible thing. Ultimately, Mike, it's about, 1119 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,680 you know, the key priorities, everybody's safety. 1120 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,440 So if people are going in with that point of view, then they'll 1121 01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,240 take sensible decisions and. They know when to phone, they 1122 01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,440 know when to ask. They know when when to 1123 01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:21,240 communicate properly. Let me do. 1124 01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,600 That I think it's important to say that it was an accident on 1125 01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,080 the road, nothing to do with the race, nothing to do with the 1126 01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,160 extra traffic you were putting on the road or anything like 1127 01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,280 that. It just it's one of those things 1128 01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,600 that you have 0 control over. So thumbs up, it worked and 1129 01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:43,800 something that I would, I would say was I was just probably I 1130 01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:48,200 was on Jelly BB Hills on what 2 miles after bridge of Orky. 1131 01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,880 So it's around about the area of the accident and there was 0 1132 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,080 people complaining about it. So thumbs up to the race 1133 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,960 organization it was nobody had any. 1134 01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,360 They knew you could, you were doing the best that you could do 1135 01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,280 with it so. Yeah, and it was things like we 1136 01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,040 turned Ken Lock leaving into a supported checkpoint. 1137 01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:11,040 They went to the court, they got some food, just kind of suddenly 1138 01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,520 switch things around. You can't really plan that. 1139 01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,120 You just have to deal with what's in front of you. 1140 01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,720 And the team are very, very good at that. 1141 01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:22,760 And we managed to be tears in some ways, we fortunate. 1142 01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:26,440 I I would get through. I actually passed the accident, 1143 01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,200 but it was before the road was closed. 1144 01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,280 So I was in the the north side, which was a better place for me 1145 01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,760 to be. Our timing guy, Martin was in 1146 01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,440 the north side. So that was good as well. 1147 01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:39,840 He'd been to the checkpoints and we just said to then adjust to 1148 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,200 what we what we saw. Yeah. 1149 01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:46,720 Think things like that, changing plans. 1150 01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:52,440 How do you think being the race director, if you went back to 1151 01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,320 running it now or if you were telling somebody else, how would 1152 01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,480 things change based on what you know? 1153 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:05,640 If you were sort of coaching somebody, how how would you tell 1154 01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:07,440 them to do it differently compared to what you did? 1155 01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,520 I don't know I would do that differently. 1156 01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:17,720 I think I, I, I, I still do coach quite a number of people. 1157 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:22,800 I do a bit of coaching and I think sometimes people can 1158 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,600 probably run faster than they think they can. 1159 01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:30,120 And it's having that belief that you can take your body to place 1160 01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,840 and you won't fall apart. And you kind of get that 1161 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:34,840 experience by training in different sections of the 1162 01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:36,320 course. And you know, you can do it. 1163 01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:40,120 And I mean, one of the things when, when Sandra was doing it 1164 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:44,040 that she'd real problems going downhills with our, with our 1165 01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:48,160 quads. And so we did a session training 1166 01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:50,280 in February where we went over the devil. 1167 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:55,000 See, we, she, she went over the devil staircase over to Kenlock, 1168 01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,120 Cleveland, back to Glencoe, then did it all again. 1169 01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:59,680 And it was all about having a big day where you get used to 1170 01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,560 get up and down that particular section of the course. 1171 01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:05,320 And when she got to that race day, it was like, this is easy. 1172 01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,000 I've done this before, I've done it twice. 1173 01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,600 And it's just getting yourself into that frame of mind. 1174 01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:15,520 So I would encourage them not to be, not to be too, too cautious. 1175 01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,840 If you, if you want to run a sub 24 and a lot of people are 1176 01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:20,680 capable, you've got to push yourself a wee bit. 1177 01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:22,640 You know, you've got to, you've got to take it. 1178 01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:26,080 Take yourself out. Put yourself into a place where 1179 01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:27,640 you think, my goodness, this might hurt. 1180 01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:32,360 Right. You told us how people could 1181 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:36,560 volunteer for the race. It is now volunteers. 1182 01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:38,840 I don't think you're open until around Christmas or maybe even 1183 01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:42,480 after that. But the race itself, for people 1184 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,520 wanting to run it is open at the moment. 1185 01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,680 Entries. It's a ballot, but can you tell 1186 01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:51,840 me how? What's the entry criteria and 1187 01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,000 how do people enter? Yeah, you've got to have run, 1188 01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,760 you've got a real relevant adequate experience we say, 1189 01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:04,720 which means I've done a 65K off road ultra since 2022 onwards. 1190 01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,360 So so you've got to have that to enter. 1191 01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:12,640 And if you have that and what to enter, then the entry form is on 1192 01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:16,320 SI entries online. It's open till the 30th of 1193 01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:19,880 November. There's no benefit in, in 1194 01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,480 entering apparently it's not first come, first served. 1195 01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,440 It's just once we get to the end of November, everybody who's got 1196 01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,600 the qualifying will go into a ballot and and the 300 people 1197 01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:33,600 will be selected. So, so if you, if you fancy it 1198 01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:38,320 still, still time to do that. We're already over the 300. 1199 01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,680 So there will be a ballot. I think we're at 350 already, 1200 01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:45,640 but it's popular. But it's a great experience and 1201 01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,280 and people have done it before. I think I've drawn back and 1202 01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:50,520 those who have helped are drawn to as well. 1203 01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,600 So it'd be be great to see you if you fancy. 1204 01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,680 Right. I think we're going to wrap it 1205 01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:00,680 up there and see you in June, I think. 1206 01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,720 So thank you, Ian, and thanks everybody for watching. 1207 01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:06,520 Thank you very much.