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Hello and welcome back to 
another episode of Run Till 

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You're Done. 
Tonight's guest. 

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I've deliberately not told Nikki
who we're interviewing, so she 

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worked out his name, but that's 
about it. 

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She did a bit of Google stocking
and found that they had a a 

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mutual connection on LinkedIn, 
but I don't think that's given 

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anything away. 
Is known for being a public 

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speaker and that's about all 
she's found out. 

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But what she doesn't know is 
he's got a book out and I'm sure

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we'll get on to talk about that 
and there's something else that 

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we're going to get on. 
I think people will find it much

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more interesting. 
Inspiring is my word. 

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The reason why I wanted to come 
on was because I think people 

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will be inspired by a story. 
So welcome to the podcast at 

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Yakimo Squintini. 
Thank you, Mike. 

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Glad to be here. 
Welcome to the podcast, Jacimo. 

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Nice to meet you. 
And you must have had it really 

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easy, Nikki, looking up Jacamo 
Squintini on Google, because 

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Google once told me I was the 
only one. 

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So. 
It wasn't too difficult. 

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It was it was I was very 
impressed by your DUV, but I'm 

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sure we will get on to that. 
And that leads us on to the 

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first question, which is how did
you get into running? 

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Quite simply, I got into running
because I was obese and so it 

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was 2011 when I had epilepsy 
surgery, as a result of which I 

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got stuck on a bed for a few 
weeks convalescing. 

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But I'd really not realized how 
even leading up to that. 

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I just got completely out of 
shape. 

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Young kids, family, travelled 
for work so ate out a lot when I

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did, and I wasn't playing tennis
four times a week like I used 

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to. 
And I went in for surgery 

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November 2011, got on the scales
for the anaesthetic and I had to

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look away because I could see 
the needle going towards treble 

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figures in kilograms. 
And I've not weighed myself in 

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ages. 
That terrified me or shamed me. 

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And because of epilepsy, I 
can't, I don't drive. 

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So I was trying to think what 
can I do to regain some shape, 

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lose some kilos where I'm not 
having to get to a gym, a club, 

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a pool and which I can work 
around my family, which are my 

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number one priority so I can go 
out when it suits me for however

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long it suits me. 
And I used to hate running with 

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a passion, but I couldn't see 
beyond that. 

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Cycling. 
I've been banned from cycling by

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my wife because I had two 
seizures in the space of 12 

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months while cycling on the A 
38. 

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And and so I maintained to this 
day that when they took out a 

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bit of my brain, they took out 
the bit that hated running. 

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So I went out April 2012, ran, 
walked, ran a minute, walked a 

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minute, did that 10 times and 
that's how it started. 

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And it's somewhat snowballed 
from there. 

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And tell us a little bit about 
epilepsy. 

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I I know bits and pieces but was
there triggers? 

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So firstly, it doesn't stop me 
going to concerts. 

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That's the main thing. 
It's not strobe lightning 

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related. 
So let's get that out of the 

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because that's one of the common
misconceptions. 

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And if you've spoken to 1 
epileptic person, you've spoken 

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to 1 epileptic person. 
It affects people differently. 

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So I don't get auras, I don't 
get warnings and I can't point 

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to any specific triggers. 
What I have noticed with running

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is the one, the one distance I 
retired from quite early on was 

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10 KS because they were intense.
They were long enough to push my

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heart rate up beyond what maybe 
it should have been. 

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And I think, you know, you 
should stop attempting something

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when you overhear the local St. 
John's Ambulance guys say, oh, 

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it's you again. 
Right. 

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So, so I had a couple in 
consecutive weeks and in a way 

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that's one of the reasons that 
ultras appeal to me because for 

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a large part of some of the 
ultras I've done, my heart 

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rate's been in double digits. 
So and I've got no scientific 

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proof that that's the case. 
My consultant thought it could 

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be the case but wasn't 100% sure
because with epilepsy, nobody 

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ever is. 
So I don't have any specific 

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triggers. 
It is something I'm aware of and

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it was happening occasionally 
races and I don't race a lot. 

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It only ever happened to me once
in a non race situation and 

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that's when I was away with work
and probably a bit stressed 

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about that. 
So it does make the logistics of

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getting around races interesting
though relying on public 

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transport. 
So you don't. 

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Sorry, Mike. 
What's the furthest you've gone 

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on public transport to get to a 
race? 

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Well, a race that I've actually 
been able to do, I'd say, well, 

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public transport, Mugai and if 
we're counting airlines, then 

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Seville. 
But certainly I've now been 

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seizure free for over six years.
So I take my meds, I'm a good 

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boy. 
I allow for the possibility of 

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having a seizure. 
I always warn people, but I wake

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up every morning expecting to 
not have one, allowing for it 

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but not expecting it. 
But it has always meant that 

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when people talk about, you 
know, Western states travelling 

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that sort of distance by race, 
that has never appealed to me 

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because it's a long way to go to
concow and before we even get 

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into conversations around 
medical systems in in the US. 

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So most of the rates that I do I
can are on this island and 

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occasionally it's been on the 
continent in Europe. 

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So you've done your run walking,
and as you say, doctors removed 

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a bit of the brain that decided 
you didn't like running. 

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Yeah. 
What point? 

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Like, what was your first race? 
When did you feel confident 

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enough you were going to enter 
something? 

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I so I started run walking in 
the April. 

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I probably signed up in May for 
a 10K that September and it was 

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a 10K up in Sheffield called the
10/10/10 because the first time 

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they hosted it was on the 10th 
of October. 

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Calendars aren't always that 
kind but, and I did it on the 

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22nd of September 2012 and it 
was, I chose that one because I 

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was born in Sheffield, I have 
family there and this race began

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and finished in a park where I'd
play as a kid or even as a 

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teenager, go along and kick a 
ball. 

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And so it seemed an appropriate 
place to to prove to myself that

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I could run 10 kilometres. 
It was under 50. 

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I want to say it was about 48 
because me being me, once I'd 

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committed, I made sure that I 
was going to be able to do 

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myself justice. 
And it's actually it's, it cuts 

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through 2 parks. 
It's mainly trails and so there 

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is a clip of the race with 
seconds of me on YouTube where I

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look like the most miserable 
person in the world. 

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But now when I when I crossed 
the line, I think it was 48 

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something, maybe 49. 
I was, I was pretty pleased. 

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You said that you're the the 
weight was over triple figures. 

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How long before you got to a 
weight you're happy with? 

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By the time I don't, by the time
that 10K came along, I'd already

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signed up for the Bristol Half 
Marathon the following week. 

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And when you're in as bad a 
state as I was, the biggest 

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games, games come, come early 
doors because, and it wasn't 

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just through exercise, it was I 
used to finish all my kids food 

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because I hate food waste and I 
had two young kids and I wasn't 

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moving much. 
But all of a sudden when you're 

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making a conscious effort to 
lose weight, then you 

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instinctively make a conscious 
effort to not put it back on by 

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being stupid about it. 
And so I, I found it easier to 

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regulate my calorie intake 
because of, of running. 

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So I would say I was fitting 
more comfortably into into my 

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old clothes by by the summer, by
the time I did the race, I was 

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probably I would have been happy
with that. 

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But I'm happier that I I shed 
more weight after that. 

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So you you've done your 10K 
race, how did that go from 10K 

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to ultra? 
So I think I need to blame some 

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specific individuals for this, 
right? 

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So back at the time when I 
frequented Twitter when it was a

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good place to hang out, I bumped
into people through through 

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connections as as Twitter 
allowed and and some of these 

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were marathon runners, ultra 
runners and run streakers. 

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And so in the back of my mind, 
much as I liked it and I think I

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always wanted to run a marathon 
once I got into running, then my

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dad has run 3 marathons. 
And so I wanted to tick that 

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box. 
And I did that at the end of 

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April 2013. 
But in the meantime, I'd I'd 

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found that the the main guilty 
party is somebody who I now 

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refer to as one of my best 
friends, Mike Wells. 

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And he talked me into doing the 
High Peak 40 in in September of 

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2013. 
So that was 40 miles up and 

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around the Peak District 
technical terrain, not my strong

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point, but again, close to 
Sheffield. 

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So he pulled at a heartstring 
there. 

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And one of the shortest ultras 
I've done and one of the 

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toughest, both because it was 
the first and because it was the

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Peak District. 
So but the just the joyful 

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nature of the event and the and 
the way it challenges body but 

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also mind with having to work 
things out, having to make 

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adjustments that that appeals to
me. 

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So I pretty much always knew 
that was never going to be my 

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last ultra. 
And just a year later you were 

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up in Scotland and running the 
Highland Fling, where we both 

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raced at the same time. 
I think that was one of one of 

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the many times that we've raced 
against each other. 

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Well, you're very kind to word 
it like that, Mike. 

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But first thing that Nikki 
didn't know about. 

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There you go. 
Yeah. 

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So how many races have you 
competed in together? 

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I don't know. 
I I looked up the first one that

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we were in together and I know 
that there's been several, but I

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I don't know what the number is.
I suspect all north of the 

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border, right? 
There have been, yeah, I'm not 

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sure. 
We might come on and talk about 

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something else there, but I 
don't know whether we've we've 

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both done the same races, not 
necessarily at the same time. 

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Yeah, the, as we say, you've 
done lots. 

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You look on DUV, there are quite
a number. 

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I've got it on front of me right
now and it says 31 and DVDVI 

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know that it misses a few out. 
So it could well be more than 

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that. 
And I know that you've started 

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more than that because Fast 
forward to a couple of years 

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ago, 2023, and I was doing the 
Bridge 200 refs and I, I won 

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that. 
But on the same day we were on 

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the same course because you were
doing the Bridge 100 race and 

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you won that. 
I did, and all the more grateful

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that about a month before the 
start I downgraded my entry 

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because I'd initially signed up 
for the 200. 

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But then because of how my 2022 
went, I figured I wasn't ready 

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for 200 at that point, and so I 
kindly asked Mr. Cobain if I 

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could downgrade, and at the 
time, it was the right thing to 

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do. 
Absolutely. 

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I can get my head down sometimes
when you say I downgraded to 100

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mile. 
Race, yeah, I know it's it's a 

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mindset that I have to keep in 
check. 

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But yes, the the level of the 
level of insanity has has 

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progressed over the years. 
I think. 

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00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,560
Just in a Cobain event is 
insane. 

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Which thing? 
Cobain is insane so. 

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Exactly so. 
He certainly has a lot to answer

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for. 
Yeah. 

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But yeah, following year you 
didn't downgrade. 

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You upgraded to the Bridge 200, 
which was the original 

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incarnation. 
Well, I think they all started 

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at the same time. 
There was the 200, the 100, and 

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he now puts on a 40 as well. 
Yeah, but you started the 200. 

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You want to tell us what 
happened in that? 

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I started the 200. 
It was certainly more favourable

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conditions in the year you did 
it. 

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And so it started I think 4:00 
PM on the Friday afternoon and 

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was was going well. 
I was. 

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So this for context, the the 
bridge is the old Severn Bridge 

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from Chepstow in Wales over to 
Aust in in Gloucestershire. 

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And it's 50 laps of a 
approximately 4 mile loop which 

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miraculously multiplies to 206. 
And I was chatting with some of 

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the other runners whom I I only 
knew one of them. 

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And Friday turns into Saturday, 
Saturday turns into Sunday. 

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I feel things are going as well 
as I can expect them to. 

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It's my the longest race I'd 
done up until that point was 

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145. 
So I'd done both the Kennett and

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Avon Canal and the Grand Union 
Canal race, which are both 145 S

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and I had never slept. 
I'd never stopped for sleep 

225
00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,720
during a race and so I figured I
would do the same on on this 

226
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:25,440
occasion and towards, well, I 
say towards the end with 40 

227
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,600
miles to go, which is still a 
long way to go, I am, I am in a 

228
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:34,600
position where I, I know even 
though I'm not a fast ultra 

229
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,640
Walker, I can probably walk it 
and see it through. 

230
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:42,440
And so I'm doing some walking, 
some very light jogging and just

231
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,720
hoping to get these 10 laps 
done. 

232
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:52,280
And I got 8 of them done. 
And so I've officially clocked 

233
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:58,480
192 miles and I go out for lap 
49. 

234
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,400
And as I go out I know I need 20
minute miling which is walking. 

235
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,680
And about a mile down the road I
convince myself I need 10 minute

236
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,640
miling. 
And so I try to run 10 minute 

237
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:19,119
miles, realise I can't, and I 
was never able to reverse the 

238
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,440
mass to realise I had plenty of 
time to beat the 55 hours. 

239
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,280
And so halfway across the 
bridge, I just stopped the 

240
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,400
watch, turned round, walked 
back. 

241
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,400
So some people think I turned 
around short because I didn't 

242
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,880
quite get to the end. 
No, I knew what I knew. 

243
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,080
I was halfway across the bridge.
I just didn't realise how much 

244
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,200
time I had in hand. 
And I walked back. 

245
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,040
And the walk back took a long 
time. 

246
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,640
I saw luxury yachts, hotels. 
I saw my son waving at me from a

247
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:55,640
window on the bridge. 
I was hallucinating badly or 

248
00:17:55,640 --> 00:18:00,640
spectacularly and and so by the 
time I did get back to the the 

249
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:04,800
start, not having completed a 
lap, there was just no way of 

250
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,800
going out and doing 8 miles. 
By that point my my wife had 

251
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,880
turned up to surprise me and I 
think I probably surprised her 

252
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,640
more than she did me. 
The state I was in. 

253
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:24,040
So it was ADNF at mile 192. 
Because you had convinced 

254
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,000
yourself that you couldn't when 
no, you think about it, there's 

255
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,400
no reason why you thought that. 
The the legs could have done the

256
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:38,280
8 miles that was not a problem. 
And had I taken a, a nap, even 

257
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,560
20 minutes, I might have kept 
the hallucinations at Bay or 

258
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,480
might have allowed my brain to 
to do the right math. 

259
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,640
And in fact, at that time, there
weren't many others left on the 

260
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,440
bridge. 
But you know, I, I asked 

261
00:18:52,440 --> 00:19:00,280
somebody where, where the start 
was, where's this, this is a 

262
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,840
bridge, right? 
And so I'd just, I'd really just

263
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,720
lost my bearings and lost touch 
with reality. 

264
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:15,080
And what I, one thing that 
didn't help was I'd been taking 

265
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,360
on fluids fine during the day. 
It was actually a hot weekend, 

266
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,480
but about three months later you
could see where my socks 

267
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,280
finished and where the tan line 
began. 

268
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,360
But what it also probably cost 
me was once the sun had started 

269
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:35,360
to go down and it had got 
cooler, I didn't take on as many

270
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:39,880
fluids as maybe I needed. 
That in itself is probably not 

271
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,640
the explanation, but it was one 
of the factors I suspect that 

272
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,520
contributed to to the premature 
end of the race. 

273
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,920
So how long had you been awake 
from start to DNF? 

274
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,240
And bearing in mind you'll 
obviously have been awake for a 

275
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,920
while before the start as well. 
So what was your total time? 

276
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,160
So let's think I would have got 
up on the Friday at about 7:00 

277
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:17,600
AM and this Sunday the cut off 
was, I want to say the cut off 

278
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:24,960
was 11:00 and it was about 9:30 
I think when I made it 9:30 PM 

279
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:34,560
when it came to an end for me. 
So yeah, 4860, about 64 hours I 

280
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,560
guess. 
In fact, when I say that I think

281
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,680
I worked this hours at the time,
it was about 62. 

282
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:44,120
So in that ballpark, 60 plus. 
I can't actually imagine being 

283
00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:47,360
awake for I can't imagine being 
awake for longer than 24 hours. 

284
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,680
Yeah, you. 
The lesson there was you've got 

285
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:54,680
time. 
Take a nap. 

286
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,760
Yeah. 
So when the what was the point 

287
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,840
of realisation then? 
That the game was up or. 

288
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,280
No, the yeah, you had enough 
time that you could have 

289
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:15,120
finished. 
After. 

290
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:19,440
It was too late when I got back 
to the the start end point and I

291
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,520
saw other people and that kicked
me into well, actually, no, it 

292
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,240
wasn't even then because I was, 
I was asking the question. 

293
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,760
Mark very calmly explained what 
happened and my first reaction 

294
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,560
was well, but if I can show with
GPS that I did get to the finish

295
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:42,760
because Mark thought I'd turned 
around too early, which I had, 

296
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,280
but for different reason. 
And so it wasn't until the 

297
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,520
following morning that I 
remembered the hallucinations 

298
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:54,240
and the 1020 minute minute 
miling mistake I made there and 

299
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,760
then. 
I just thought I'd turned around

300
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,280
too, too soon. 
But close to the closer turning 

301
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,480
point, we had different timing 
mats than they'd used before. 

302
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:09,680
So I'm defensively making up 
excuses and not accepting it's 

303
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,640
my fault when it was entirely my
fault. 

304
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,440
And there there is nobody else 
that you could have blamed. 

305
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:23,600
I'm sure that Karen was there at
the start with Mark and you 

306
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,680
could have blamed them all you 
liked but they're going to turn 

307
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,880
around and say Nope, sorry mate,
your own fault. 

308
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:30,880
Yeah. 
And and that's pretty much what 

309
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,400
was happening on the Sunday 
evening. 

310
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:40,840
And then I duly apologize once 
I'd regained my, my senses the 

311
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,920
following morning, the morning 
after, whenever it was. 

312
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,320
Yeah. 
And if there's one thing I've 

313
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,320
learnt with with races, because 
some have gone really well, some

314
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,320
have gone really badly, is when 
it's my fault, I own my 

315
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,920
failures. 
And when things go well, I own 

316
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,320
my successes. 
And that's one of the lessons I 

317
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,120
tried to take from running into,
into the real world. 

318
00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:06,000
I I try to keep the blame all 
for myself. 

319
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,040
And that's the second thing 
tonight that Nikki didn't know 

320
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,040
about. 
So, but what she doesn't know is

321
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,560
you didn't let that get you 
down. 

322
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:24,120
You went back the next year, not
to the bridge, but to the tunnel

323
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,200
instead. 
And how did you get on with 

324
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,360
that? 
And for those that are watching,

325
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,080
my background is the Tunnel and 
I've got finisher's T-shirt on. 

326
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,720
I haven't got a finisher's 
T-shirt so you'd think I'd have 

327
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:48,120
learnt from bridge. 
And so I turned up at the tunnel

328
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,680
which again starts at a similar 
time of day. 

329
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:56,840
I think it was maybe 3:30 this 
year and and it was a very 

330
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:59,360
similar story. 
I went through the 1st 100 miles

331
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:03,000
in about 21 hours as I had done 
on on the bridge. 

332
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:09,920
So I was allowing myself time to
for my pace to to go down and to

333
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:19,960
even walk the second-half and I 
again decided that I didn't need

334
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,160
to sleep, but I could get the 
job done in in one hit. 

335
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,640
And the tunnel is 102 mile laps,
one mile up, one mile down. 

336
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:40,320
And I set off on my 99th lap and
all of a sudden the tunnel by by

337
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,520
this point, most runners have 
either finished or, or DNF D. 

338
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,800
So it's, it's a lonely place. 
It's a Sunday evening. 

339
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:52,160
There aren't many civilians in 
the in the tunnel, even though 

340
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:57,200
it's open to the public. 
And so it's me, my shattered 

341
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,120
brain, and I had a few exchanges
with some of the other runners, 

342
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,680
one whom had won Bridge 200 the 
year I did it, and so he was 

343
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,240
keen to see me actually finish 
this. 

344
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,920
You're on that 99. 
That's about 198 cabain miles, 

345
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:20,160
but it's actually more like 205.
I've completed 98 so I'm out on 

346
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,400
that. 
Yes, it's yeah. 

347
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,960
It's interesting because the 
tunnel's actually got markers 

348
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,840
every 100 meters telling you how
far each end of the bridges the 

349
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,000
tunnel is. 
So, you know, it's longer than a

350
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,000
mile, but that's OK. 
It's a different units of 

351
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,160
measurements as long as you 
know. 

352
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,280
And. 
And yes, I was probably 

353
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,880
sleepwalking leaning against the
side of of the tunnel at some 

354
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,560
point just. 
And by this point, it's on the 

355
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,280
one hand, I think I had 
something like 3 hours again in 

356
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:58,080
hand to do 4 miles. 
But even had I tried to get some

357
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,240
sleep there and I think my brain
had gone, I was hallucinating. 

358
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,480
I was not hallucinating when I 
saw my wife, who again surprised

359
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,400
me. 
She came halfway up the Ridge to

360
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:14,080
find me the tunnel to find me. 
And and yeah, she, she took me 

361
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:19,640
back down. 
So again, that's At the age of 

362
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:26,480
48, I completed 192 miles. 
At the age of 49, I completed 

363
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,080
196 miles. 
I turned 50 in December. 

364
00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:37,880
So you DNF the second one. 
IDNF the 2nd and pretty much for

365
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,640
the same reason. 
I I I should have simply got 

366
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:46,080
some sleep at some point? 
Have you entered any this year? 

367
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,320
So this calendar year I'd also 
I'd already signed up for 

368
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,840
Cardiff to London, which is a 
different game. 

369
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,720
So it starts at starts in the 
morning, not halfway during the 

370
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:06,280
day. 
It was point to point and it had

371
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:09,840
a 62 hour cut off time instead 
of 55. 

372
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:17,120
Now this was in May, so it's 
about two months and maybe a 

373
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:22,000
week after after tunnel. 
There were some wise people 

374
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:27,800
suggesting I don't attempt it, 
but I just wanted to give it a 

375
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,760
go. 
And the one promise I made to 

376
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,920
myself and to those around me, I
will get some sleep somewhere, I

377
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,240
don't know where, but I will get
some sleep. 

378
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,280
And I got some sleep somewhere 
on the outskirts of Maidenhead. 

379
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,400
I was getting some more sleeps 
than when he stains, but it was 

380
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,760
a Sunday morning and somebody 
understandably checked that I 

381
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,600
was OK so he could show up. 
My power nap but. 

382
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:59,800
And who are you? 
I mean, have you been? 

383
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,160
I'd lie, I'd intentionally lie 
down on a bench to get 15 

384
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,640
minutes late. 
I got 10. 

385
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:11,800
That was fine and, and I got to 
London. 

386
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:18,560
I, I ended up managing to finish
last because I was caught up 

387
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,400
with a with a mile to go. 
It didn't help that I once I'd 

388
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,520
got on the right bridge because 
initially I got on the wrong 

389
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,520
bridge. 
I then was on the wrong side of 

390
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,480
the road, But so somebody 
overtook me right at the finish,

391
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,160
which isn't common practice in, 
in ultras, as you know. 

392
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,920
But now I finished that. 
So I on the one hand, I 

393
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,520
scratched the 200 mile rich that
I'd accumulated. 

394
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:50,040
The flip side is it makes you 
realise that, yeah, if things go

395
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,120
to plan, it's, it's a distance I
can, I can cover. 

396
00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:01,200
But yeah, 7 hours fewer, 7 fewer
hours to do it on a bridge or in

397
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,000
a tunnel. 
I, I, I was at home watching on 

398
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,960
the tracker and I don't think 
anybody cared who was finishing 

399
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,080
before you. 
We were all just please, please 

400
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,160
let it happen. 
And I we, we saw that you'd went

401
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,520
the wrong way at one point, 
which was near the end. 

402
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,080
And it was like, please, 
somebody phone him up and turn 

403
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,760
him around. 
And I did get a phone call. 

404
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,680
I've been getting messages. 
I volunteer at Park Run. 

405
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,600
I'm one of the run directors at 
Severn Bridge, Park Run and 

406
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:41,120
somebody from my team there 
message me, my wife called me. 

407
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,760
So yes, that I do make for some 
interesting dot watching, I'm 

408
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,880
told on the bridge. 
Rose Glover, who's an 

409
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,960
accomplished ultra runner, told 
me afterwards she'd she was 

410
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,640
trying to log on to the M48 
traffic cameras webcams to to 

411
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,320
see where I was and where 
they're always moving. 

412
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:09,240
So that's, that was interesting 
to watch, I'm sure. 

413
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,360
And. 
You got to the end, you finished

414
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,280
it. 
Do you think that the repetitive

415
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,240
nature of the tunnel and the 
bridge had anything to do with 

416
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,000
you? 
Not. 

417
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,280
And then you did the point to 
point and you finished it. 

418
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,400
You think it made a difference? 
If I look at it logically and 

419
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,840
objectively, yes. 
Where where I struggle with this

420
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:42,040
is the repetitive events like 
that were not new to me. 

421
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:48,760
So in 2018 and 19 I did a 36 
hour event on the Humber Bridge 

422
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,400
which is remarkably 7 similar to
the Severn Bridge and on both 

423
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,680
occasions I did 132 miles. 
One year I was I went outright. 

424
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:06,200
Second year I was first male. 
I've done 100 mile in lockdown. 

425
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,440
I did 100 mile run around our 
estate, which is less than half 

426
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:17,320
a mile long. 
And and so I thought repetitive 

427
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:22,000
would would suit. 
But what may have been my 

428
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:30,520
undoing, I just might have 
considered the job done when it 

429
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:40,040
wasn't. 
And 9098 laps of 100 lap racing,

430
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,560
you set off, you've got time and
and maybe maybe I relaxed and I 

431
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,040
let my guard down and demons 
made their way in. 

432
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,960
So that's one of the things I 
need to need to be aware of. 

433
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:02,840
The 100 Miller they did in 
lockdown, Was that by any chance

434
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,280
a Cobain virtual event? 
No, I can't blame Cobain for 

435
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,520
this one. 
What it was, it was 2020. 

436
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,320
I was doing the Centurion Grand 
Slam, so I had done the North 

437
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,640
Downs Way on the original date 
in August. 

438
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:24,760
I then did autumn. 
Sorry. 

439
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:31,920
I then did the Thames Pass 100 
in September and I did the 

440
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,920
autumn 100. 
And so the last one left was the

441
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,640
South Downs Way 100, which is 
normally in June, and that had 

442
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,320
been rescheduled for I think 
November. 

443
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,440
And they've been great at 
putting on events in lockdown, 

444
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,400
all the aid stations, food 
individually wrapped, 

445
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,480
sanitizing, perfect staggered 
starts. 

446
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,600
But what they couldn't control 
was the second lockdown and the 

447
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,840
travel ban. 
So we simply couldn't get to the

448
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,480
start. 
And so I'd done the three out of

449
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,280
four. 
I, they counted the 2021 version

450
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,600
towards it. 
So I completed it, but it went 

451
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,040
from being the slam condensed in
the fewer number of weeks to the

452
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,760
one over the longest period. 
And I'd done the training I 

453
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,360
wanted to get that fourth race. 
And so I just did it. 

454
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,480
They they did a a virtual thing 
and it just suited for it to to 

455
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,480
be for that. 
Because Mark Cobain had he, he 

456
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,480
did one as well, which was you. 
You had to do it in your garden 

457
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,840
and have us urine locked down. 
So I thought you might have done

458
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:56,120
that, but different same. 
Idea No, I did the IT was early 

459
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,720
on in lockdown. 
I think it was still 2020 when 

460
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,840
he did Cobain 19, which was 19 
days of 19 mile runs. 

461
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,760
I'd done 220 mile runs before 
realising the event was on. 

462
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,239
And then I figured I might as 
well join it and I did twenty 

463
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,199
20s instead of 19 nineteens. 
And then I did his frozen 

464
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,000
accumulator in 21 back and even 
in reverse. 

465
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,199
That was not a good idea that 
that took the best out of me. 

466
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,159
You want to explain to Nikki 
what the accumulator is. 

467
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,000
Yeah. 
So a normal accumulator would be

468
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,719
is typically in January would be
a mile on the 1st, 2 miles on 

469
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,440
the second, all the way to 31 
miles on the last day of the 

470
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,600
month. 
And on that occasion he felt 

471
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,320
particularly generous, he 
offered a reverse accumulator 

472
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,639
option. 
So I did 31 miles on the 1st of 

473
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,880
the month, 30. 
I got stuck on 26.2 for a while,

474
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,960
I don't know why. 
So by the 10th of January I've 

475
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,240
got 10 marathons in. 
And then I progressed downwards.

476
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,240
But that was January and yeah, 
in. 

477
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,760
I didn't really allow myself 
time to recover from that. 

478
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,560
I seldom do. 
But on that time, I paid for it.

479
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,800
So was the reverse not easier 
then? 

480
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,320
Because you start off back and 
then it gets smaller and. 

481
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:22,440
Smaller, I'm absolutely 
convinced it was yes, but it I I

482
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,480
didn't help myself with not 
taking February more likely than

483
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:31,480
I did. 
So run streaking in itself fine,

484
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,520
but there probably should have 
been more easy days in in 

485
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,240
February and then in March I was
there were a couple of days when

486
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:43,160
I was hobbling on my runs. 
And are you still on a run 

487
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:43,880
streak? 
No. 

488
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,120
I am indeed, yes. 
And one of the reasons I am is I

489
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,200
do not trust myself to run four 
or five times a week. 

490
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,520
I have the utmost respect for 
the people who can do that, just

491
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,240
like I have the utmost respect 
for people who can go for a run 

492
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:04,520
after work. 
I go every day, first thing 

493
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,840
before breakfast so that my 
brain does not have the chance 

494
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,840
to say, actually, you know what 
I don't really like this running

495
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,040
malarkey after all, Or at the 
end of the day, it's kids, it's 

496
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,120
work, it's general tiredness. 
So now I'll go. 

497
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,200
The time might start with A4 or 
A5, but that's what works for 

498
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,840
me. 
So how many days are you on now?

499
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,720
So I am on and it just so I I 
can I can always remember what 

500
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:34,920
day I started. 
But it's convenient that I've 

501
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,480
got something on my Garmin. 
It's 4711. 

502
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:45,640
Wow and I have got what's your 
rule? 

503
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,280
Is there a I've read about run 
streaking and people tend to 

504
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,080
have rules. 
It's got to be a male as that 

505
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,760
what you have or do you have 
your own rules of your set 

506
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,000
distance? 
No. 

507
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:02,720
So I go by what I believe is the
generally accepted minimum of 1 

508
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:04,640
continuous mile. 
Right? 

509
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,520
Continuous is what can make it 
interesting. 

510
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:13,400
Say in the Sunday hours of a 200
mile Cobain event and all of a 

511
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,040
sudden I've got I've been run 
walking and all of a sudden I 

512
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,640
need to find one continuous mile
that's that can be interesting. 

513
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:27,600
I generally do more than that, 
but if it's the day after a long

514
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,320
one then sometimes it's it's 
just a one mile. 

515
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,080
And what put you on to 4000 odd 
date? 

516
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,440
I'm not even going to do the 
maths for that because that's 

517
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,000
like hundreds of years it. 
Will be It will be thirteen 

518
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,680
years on October. 
Well, October 12th will be the 

519
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,680
start of the 14th year. 
I'll have completed 13 years a 

520
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,280
day before. 
Insane. 

521
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,480
So at what point did you realise
I'm on a run streak and I'm just

522
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,560
going to keep going and see how 
far I can take it? 

523
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,480
So this is one of the other 
things for which I'll I'll blame

524
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,880
my friend Mike. 
He was, he started run streaking

525
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:11,920
about a year before me and he 
kept praising it. 

526
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,880
And he'd actually started run 
streaking. 

527
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:21,280
It was Markathon, which no doubt
you're familiar with. 

528
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,840
So he'd taken that up around 
December. 

529
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,760
It started a preview week or so 
before, but that he gave that a 

530
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:37,240
go and he kept going. 
And I think I, I knew early on I

531
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:40,120
was on a streak, but I thought 
100 days would be good. 

532
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,600
And then the longer you're on 
it, the harder it becomes to 

533
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,400
stop. 
It is there is an addiction 

534
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,480
element to it. 
You know, there are addictions 

535
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,120
out there. 
But if people say to you, oh, 

536
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,600
you're obsessed, I'm not in 
denial. 

537
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,000
There are worse things to be 
obsessed. 

538
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,360
About yeah, yeah. 
Or addicted to Yeah. 

539
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:04,600
Yeah. 
And those people that would 

540
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:09,400
argue that you would need rest 
days and which I do agree with, 

541
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,040
but do you count? 
Do you are the days you do just 

542
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,000
a mile for a run and technically
that is your rest day. 

543
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:24,000
So I try to limit myself to five
K 3 miles on Sundays these days.

544
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,280
So what for many people is the 
long run day. 

545
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,200
For me it's a short run and I 
consider that as an easy pace, a

546
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,520
rest day. 
And if my body demands that I 

547
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,760
slip in the occasional St. 
saver, the occasional mile, then

548
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,400
I'll do that. 
But I've been, the body's got 

549
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:49,200
used to it and, and so in 2020 
in particular, I was recovering 

550
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:54,080
better than I had any right to. 
I'm not getting any younger, so 

551
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,960
I I have to factor that in as 
well. 

552
00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,360
But on the whole, recovery is 
probably one of the things that 

553
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:09,440
I'm luckiest with. 
And after going back to your 

554
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,640
epileptic surgery, yeah, I you 
wrote a book. 

555
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:23,720
You want to tell us about that? 
Yeah, so the as I got into 

556
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,840
marathon's ultras, then again, 
Mike mentioned the West Ireland 

557
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,640
Way race to me, which I knew 
about because I've done the 

558
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,040
Fling. 
I did the Fling in 20/13/2014 

559
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:41,360
and and that's when I threw my 
name into the ballot for the 

560
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:49,600
2015 race. 
And so in 2015 I ended up doing 

561
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,400
the the thing that's not a 
thing, the Triple Crown. 

562
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:57,760
So I did the back then the Fling
was still in the spring and the 

563
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,520
Devil the Highlands was in 
August and in between it was the

564
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,600
West Highland Way race, which 
was the longest race I'd ever 

565
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,120
done at that point had been the 
Fling itself. 

566
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:16,840
So going up to 95 miles and not 
95 easy miles at that was, was a

567
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,680
big step up. 
And I saw that really as a 

568
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:27,000
catalyst to, to tell my story 
about the epilepsy, the weight 

569
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,800
loss and the going from my, my 
first blog when I started, 

570
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,720
because everybody who starts 
running needs a blog. 

571
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,000
And mine was I can't stand 
running. 

572
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,400
And it took me a year to accept 
that. 

573
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:42,560
OK, maybe maybe it's OK after 
all, maybe I can enjoy while I'm

574
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,120
running. 
I'm not just the endorphins at 

575
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,720
the end. 
And and that's why the the West 

576
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:53,440
Island way race was, was a 
catalyst for that and called the

577
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,280
book Finding My way. 
Because of that, how I'd found 

578
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,560
running and running in a way 
that worked for me. 

579
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:04,440
And why I also thought that it's
dangerous to say everybody can 

580
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,280
because there will always be 
exceptions. 

581
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,240
There are people who can't, but 
I think most people are capable 

582
00:42:10,240 --> 00:42:11,960
of far more than they believe 
they are. 

583
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,760
And a lot of people who say I 
can't run, actually you can. 

584
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:18,400
You may just don't. 
Not to. 

585
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,160
You may choose not to. 
But if I can, you can. 

586
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,840
So you wrote right in the book. 
How? 

587
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,480
What was the process for that? 
You decided you've got your blog

588
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,640
and you've wrote your book and 
telling your story. 

589
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,800
How does that evolve from 
writing it on the computer to 

590
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,520
getting it published? 
What was? 

591
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:47,880
What's the process for that? 
I, I never, I didn't really 

592
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,240
understand the publishing game. 
And so it's only available on 

593
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:54,640
Kindle. 
I sounded out a few publishers 

594
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,400
afterwards, but I didn't realize
how far ahead they plan. 

595
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,320
And so they already had other 
books in the pipeline that was 

596
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,800
similar to mine. 
And so it's out there, It's on 

597
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,440
Kindle Unlimited. 
So I lowered the price early on 

598
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,080
because for me it was never 
about, it was never going to be 

599
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,480
my pension fund. 
I was just keen for people to to

600
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:22,000
learn about how I've got to run 
95 miles from the from the state

601
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,080
I was in. 
Is it still available on Kindle?

602
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,560
It it is, yes. 
And now it's Kindle Unlimited, 

603
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:33,920
so it's it's free effectively. 
And you mentioned you've done 

604
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,360
the Triple Crown in 2015. 
Out of the three, what was your 

605
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,040
favorite? 
The West Island Way race is my 

606
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:48,680
all time favorite. 
I was delighted to get back to 

607
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:53,640
do the Devil and I think the 
scenery on the devil just about 

608
00:43:53,640 --> 00:44:00,640
beats the scenery on on the 
fling on the 1st 4542 and. 

609
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,320
But yeah, the whole experience 
about the West Island Way race, 

610
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,760
from the meeting in a Tesco car 
park before 1:00 in the morning 

611
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,160
to the presentation and the 
winner presenting the last 

612
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,680
finisher, it's just it's a 
special event. 

613
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,160
I know you've had lots of other 
people come on here and say the 

614
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,280
same, but it's there's a reason 
for that. 

615
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:26,040
I'm not sure. 
Is that your favorite all time 

616
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:27,920
race out of everything you've 
done? 

617
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:33,280
Yes, it still is. 
I've never gone back. 

618
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,080
Well, sorry. 
I crewed so my friend Mike, his,

619
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:43,120
his wife and his parents crewed 
for me in 2015 and he did it in 

620
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,880
2019 and I crewed for him. 
That's the only time I've been 

621
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,520
back to do the the West Ireland 
Grey race. 

622
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,720
Part of me enjoyed it so much 
that I don't want to go back. 

623
00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,680
There are other races which I've
loved and I have gone back. 

624
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,760
So the South Downs Way, I've 
gone and done five times in 

625
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,960
total, and that's my second 
favorite race. 

626
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,000
But the West Highland Way race, 
and again, logistics don't help.

627
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,240
It's a flight, it's a taxi. 
It's it's a long time. 

628
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:21,200
But yeah, it was, it was 
interesting because even on that

629
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,920
one, the for a while, I don't 
know if anybody's beaten it, but

630
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,000
for a while I had the fastest 
time over 24 hours. 

631
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:37,600
I had 24 hours and 7 minutes 
because Mike and I were having 

632
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,880
such a good time coming down the
Fire Rd. that we missed the sign

633
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,520
to take taking us off the West 
Island Way and towards the 

634
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,880
finish. 
So yes, we, we found ourselves 

635
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,760
knocking on some car window at 
1:00 in the morning where to ask

636
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,040
how to get to the finish. 
It was some somebody crewing for

637
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:59,880
another runner was taking some, 
some sleep and we we interrupted

638
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,160
that. 
But so, yeah, my West Island 

639
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,160
warehouse was 96 miles. 
I'm I'm getting the impression 

640
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,720
from this chat that navigation 
isn't a strong point, Giacomo. 

641
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,440
That's why I do tunnels and 
bridges. 

642
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,200
And. 
It still doesn't work. 

643
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,680
And I used to say exactly Mike, 
I used to say even I can't get 

644
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,520
lost on a bridge. 
And I managed to do that. 

645
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,840
So no, navigation is not my 
strong point. 

646
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,520
Wrecking is not my strong point,
again, because of the logistics.

647
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,440
So there are races that I just 
won't go near because I can't 

648
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:36,560
wreck you them. 
So yes, I I depend on my Garmin 

649
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,760
more than I probably should. 
So as the spine race not in the 

650
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,840
pipeline then? 
Well, I've never done a well, 

651
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,920
I've never done a multi stage 
event like spy. 

652
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:53,440
I I can't say multi day because 
some events have taken 3 days, 

653
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:56,240
but it's been a continuous 
event. 

654
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:04,440
The whole logistical side of of 
a spine or a Dragon's back have 

655
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,040
managed to at least keep that 
temptation at Bay. 

656
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:14,080
That and a track race. 
Oh, so you don't fancy a Cobain 

657
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,680
track? 
I'm I'm going to, I'm not going 

658
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:23,040
to say never on the track, but I
think I can safely say never on 

659
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,440
the on the multi days. 
Do you think you can get lost on

660
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,840
the track? 
I managed to not get lost doing 

661
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,480
lapse for my estate which were 
as close to it as it gets. 

662
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:38,120
But yeah, I might get confused 
if they when they start turning 

663
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:39,600
you around every three hours. 
But. 

664
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:47,400
So you do these huge events, how
how do you feel for them? 

665
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,600
And even on your run streaking, 
do you feel for everything or 

666
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:58,880
talk us through that? 
So on ultras, from a physical 

667
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:05,240
perspective, I think I could get
by on tailwind gels and maybe 

668
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:09,600
some Cliff bars from a physical 
perspective. 

669
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,920
But there comes a point where I 
just crave the sensation of 

670
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,760
food. 
And so if all of a sudden some 

671
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,120
flapjacks do appear on the magic
Cobain table, I'll grab one. 

672
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,280
I may need the calories, I may 
need them, I may not. 

673
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:29,480
But it's just that sensation of 
doing what humans do and and 

674
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,320
eating food. 
But otherwise it's, and again, 

675
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,080
there's a practical element to 
this as well. 

676
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:38,680
When I'm taking a train to, to 
get to a race, it's so much 

677
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:43,280
easier to pack tailwind than it 
is I, I used to set off with 

678
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:49,320
bagels and stuff. 
And yeah, this is an easier 

679
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:55,680
option on a daily basis. 
I generally just have a coffee 

680
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:03,800
before I set off and I I run 
fasted most of the time if and 

681
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,240
then when I come home I I devour
cereals. 

682
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,600
Yeah, so you'll have your coffee
before you go out for your run 

683
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,840
in the morning. 
Yes, I I used to get up, have 

684
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,440
some water, get dressed and go 
out in a which was more 

685
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,840
efficient. 
These days, I, I take it a bit 

686
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,960
more slowly. 
I'll, I might jot down some. 

687
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,960
Well, I do jot down some some 
thoughts in a diary which isn't 

688
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:35,160
for me, it's for my wife. 
But so that that adds a bit of 

689
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,480
time. 
It takes maybe away from from 

690
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,120
sleeping time, but on on the 
whole it makes for a better 

691
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,560
balance. 
I don't think my car could have 

692
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:47,000
a coffee before an early morning
run without a Bush being nearby.

693
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,800
I. 
I don't drink coffee so I can't 

694
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,160
call on that one, but if I'm 
going I'm I'm in the office one 

695
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,560
day a week and at home the other
time. 

696
00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:01,400
When I'm in the office I go in 
earlier and go for a run before 

697
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,600
it. 
So leave the house at so like 

698
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:09,200
half five in the morning and on 
the drive in I have a caffeine 

699
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:13,520
drink so that when I'm when I 
arrive half an hour later, I'm 

700
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:18,480
ready to run. 
But yeah, where I'm running 

701
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,040
there's no toilets to be found, 
but it works. 

702
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,520
And you run first thing in the 
morning. 

703
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,440
One thing I've noticed this 
week, I quite like an early 

704
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,920
morning run too, but I've quite 
struggled. 

705
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,400
The mornings noticeably are 
getting darker. 

706
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,520
Do you struggle with that? 
Yes, it's interesting when 

707
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,320
people start commenting on the 
nights, throwing in sat there 

708
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,920
thinking the sun's been rising 
later for a week and nobody, 

709
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:49,880
nobody's noticed. 
You'll just notice in the 

710
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:52,360
evenings the sunsets come in 
earlier. 

711
00:50:53,440 --> 00:51:00,400
So I'm still, because I seldom 
hit trails, very seldom hit 

712
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,920
trails on my training runs 
because of how early I go out. 

713
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,640
I like to be similar where I can
be seen. 

714
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:12,240
So I'm still at a point where 
the lights are either or the 

715
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,360
street lights are either on or 
they're coming on. 

716
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,480
And if I start with a few laps 
of my estate, I can do that 

717
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,720
without lights because security 
lights come on and muscle memory

718
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:23,440
kicks in. 
But yeah, the head torches are 

719
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,600
charged and and ready to go. 
Yeah. 

720
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,320
And when? 
Also Nikki. 

721
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:32,640
So when on Saturday I ran over 
to to Barker and in Wales that's

722
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,240
that's 20 miles from me and 
allow for time to get there 

723
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:40,640
early. 
Yeah, the the head touch was was

724
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,640
put through its paces. 
And Nikki tried running in a 

725
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:49,480
tunnel for 48 hours. 
I don't know mate, like I've 

726
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,520
been saying, poor Mark Cobain, 
if he listens to this he'll 

727
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,880
think I absolutely hate his 
events to the point I'm I'm 

728
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:59,240
expecting a free entry to one of
them to for me to politely say 

729
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:04,640
no thank. 
You he'll take it as free I. 

730
00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:07,240
Honestly, don't. 
I'm saying I don't think I 

731
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:11,520
could, but the the seeds planted
if he if he'd done that, I don't

732
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,800
know if I actually would because
I'm not rude. 

733
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,280
No, he he wants people to think 
that they're hard. 

734
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:25,280
They no wonder they are running 
around the track with no 

735
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,960
support, fans or food and well, 
you're allowed food and drink. 

736
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,560
I don't think he's that mean, is
he? 

737
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,960
But you're not allowed music. 
No headphones. 

738
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:39,960
Oh, Speaking of no headphones, 
actually, that question just 

739
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,560
pops into my mind. 
This isn't in the question set. 

740
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:46,360
Do you run with or without music
or noise in your ears? 

741
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:53,720
So more often than not I don't. 
I maybe on, on Saturdays when 

742
00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:56,680
I'm running over to Wales, for 
some reason it appeals. 

743
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,600
So I'll take it with me. 
And I often run without a phone 

744
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,280
anyway. 
Whereas when I'm going to park 

745
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,760
in, I take my phone with me. 
So I might as well get some 

746
00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:09,640
music out of it, maybe on a 
Sunday for even when it's my 

747
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,480
short maybe half hour run. 
But most of the times I don't. 

748
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:18,480
And that's because I run on 
roads, pavements early in the 

749
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:23,040
morning. 
And even though the the bone 

750
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,440
conducting headphones are great,
I still feel if I'm expecting 

751
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,880
cars to see me, I have a duty 
towards them. 

752
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:31,520
And that's, that's how it 
started. 

753
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,120
And I've not changed in spite of
the technology improving. 

754
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:37,720
So because let me tell you, at 
that time of the day, where I 

755
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:41,040
live anyway, there's very few 
cars doing 30 miles an hour. 

756
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,800
There's nobody around. 
So why would you? 

757
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,200
So you just need to be that 
little bit more aware. 

758
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,480
Yeah, you've got to be 
responsible for your own safety 

759
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,720
at some points. 
When you run to park, run and 

760
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:58,960
then you run direct, do you run 
home again? 

761
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:05,000
No, I did a couple of times 
early on, but the reality is if 

762
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,040
I did, I simply would not see my
family on Saturdays. 

763
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:16,600
And so I get a lift with one of 
the volunteers who who lives in 

764
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,160
Chepstow. 
So she goes out of her way, she 

765
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:21,560
adds. 
Takes an hour out just to drop 

766
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,840
me off at home. 
So at least we get to have a 

767
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,720
coffee before then with the rest
of the team. 

768
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:30,480
But yeah, I'd love to claim 
green credentials, but 

769
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:32,840
ultimately there's a car making 
that same round journey. 

770
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,200
It's just not me driving it and 
not taking me there. 

771
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:40,120
But. 
I do want to shout out the Grey 

772
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,200
volunteer. 
Yeah, it's Lorraine. 

773
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,600
Grateful to the rain every week.
Everybody needs a little rain. 

774
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:54,880
Unless my wife's done a Walter 
Few and so she comes over and 

775
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,880
walks and obviously I get a lift
back with her. 

776
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:02,200
So it's still not a frequent 
event, but it's more frequent 

777
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,600
than it ever used to be, so. 
Yeah. 

778
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,200
All right. 
I have all the things that 

779
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,240
you've done running wise, which 
we've heard a lot of stories so 

780
00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:13,440
far. 
What's your biggest achievement?

781
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,600
And it might not be a race, it 
might just be inspiring somebody

782
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,440
to do Park Run. 
Well, when you put it like that,

783
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:26,600
I must say getting my wife to do
a park run is yeah, that that's 

784
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:31,520
up there. 
But no, I on the one hand, I am 

785
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:37,120
proud of my run streak and I'm 
grateful that things have gone 

786
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:41,120
my way where I have been able to
get out for at least a mile or 

787
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:46,240
for almost 13 years. 
And because of recent years, the

788
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:49,200
average is now somewhere around 
11 1/2 miles a day. 

789
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,920
And so to be able to do that for
13 years and I'm grateful for 

790
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,760
that good fortune in terms of 
race. 

791
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:03,720
I, I asked, I had to ask this 
question to, to my friend Mike 

792
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:07,680
because he can be more objective
about my achievements, as it 

793
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:12,560
were than I can. 
And I did a race call, the big 

794
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:18,320
school run just last month. 
It's a 12 hour event around a 

795
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:22,360
college Worksop college. 
It's a 5K route. 

796
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:29,480
And I'd done it last year come 
second. 

797
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,800
And I did it this year and won 
it. 

798
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:38,440
And in the process of winning 
it, I'd managed a sub 10 hour 

799
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,520
100K, which I wasn't even aiming
for. 

800
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:45,480
But I'm reliably informed that 
of my, of the races I've done, 

801
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:51,080
that's, that's up there. 
So, but yeah, it's, it's their 

802
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,000
own streak thing. 
And it's always, I do have 

803
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,960
people, I've had people come up 
to me during a race and say, 

804
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:03,360
I've read your book. 
And and that's, that means a lot

805
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:08,720
because then they they thank me 
and if I can pass give anything 

806
00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:11,160
back to the running community. 
After all, it's given to me 

807
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,120
then. 
Always delighted to do that. 

808
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:20,840
And during your 13 years of 
streaking, run streaking, not 

809
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,880
just streaking. 
Have you been injured? 

810
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:34,320
I can think to two or three days
when I would have advised 

811
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,720
anybody else to not run in in 
the state that I did. 

812
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:45,520
Yes, the and bizarrely the the 
worst state I was in was leading

813
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:52,880
up to Bridge 200 last year. 
So I'd gone over to Italy for my

814
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:58,600
mum's 80th birthday. 
I was carrying a niggle and I 

815
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,000
kept running on it more than I 
should have done. 

816
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,800
And it got to the point where I,
I needed to see. 

817
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,920
I saved my physio. 
I've only seen him on on three, 

818
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:13,480
well, six occasions and 
occasions over the course of 

819
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:19,160
three separate injuries. 
And I walked in or hobbled in 

820
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,280
and one of the first things he 
said was I'm not going to tell 

821
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:22,920
you not to run because I know 
you won't listen. 

822
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,920
But he was able to, to fix me 
up. 

823
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:33,480
And whatever went wrong on 
bridge, it was not, it was not 

824
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,120
the legs, it was not the body. 
It's. 

825
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,680
But yeah, I I needed him to to 
put me together again. 

826
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:47,560
After the after the bridge in 
the tunnel, you got up and did 

827
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:51,360
your one mile the next day. 
Yes, I did. 

828
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:55,240
Well, it's a run streak mate. 
Come. 

829
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,120
On No, I'm just making sure that
everybody knew. 

830
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,800
Yeah, yeah. 
Well, although, yes, on the on 

831
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,880
the Monday, yeah, I might have 
waited till the afternoon. 

832
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,520
That's the difference. 
I don't think I got up at 4:00. 

833
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:15,000
Yeah, well, I did get up at 4:00
in the night after after bridge,

834
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,240
but that's because all of a 
sudden I thought I was back on 

835
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:22,520
it and I could see that actually
lasted about the best part of a 

836
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,320
week. 
If I'd wake up in the night, I'd

837
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:28,840
I could just about see the 
bridge. 

838
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,040
The next question that we have 
on the set, this has probably 

839
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:39,560
changed I would imagine for you 
over the 13 years, but why do 

840
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:42,760
you run? 
It it definitely has changed. 

841
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,880
So it's gone from 
straightforward weight loss to 

842
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,960
fitness and fitness of two 
kinds. 

843
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:55,240
There's the physical one is 
obvious, the mental 1 is not as 

844
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,080
obvious, but it's just as 
important. 

845
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:05,000
So I, I became aware during 
lockdown that I was in a better 

846
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,440
place than a lot of other 
people, not least because I was 

847
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:11,800
able to, I was, I was running, I
was going out when there was 

848
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,680
nobody else out there, but I was
still able to, to get my miles 

849
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:19,960
in. 
And, and I've, I've been working

850
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:23,240
from home since long before it 
became fashionable or 

851
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:25,360
commonplace. 
I was working from home at the 

852
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:33,280
back end of the last Millennium.
And and if I didn't run, I could

853
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:36,760
probably go entire weeks without
getting out of my house or at 

854
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:42,160
least getting off my estate. 
Whereas running makes sure that 

855
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,880
I maintain some contact with 
reality and opens up communities

856
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,040
to me, whether it's the Parkland
community, the West Highland Way

857
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:53,600
race community. 
And so these days, I'd say it's 

858
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,920
probably more about the the 
mental benefits than than the 

859
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:04,920
physical ones because although, 
yeah, it'd be as I get older, if

860
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:08,520
it helps me keep in in check, 
that's a bonus. 

861
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:14,120
And our next question has 
probably changed throughout 

862
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,960
different races as what do you 
what do you think about when you

863
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:23,240
are running? 
So there are times when I try to

864
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:27,320
think about nothing at all and 
just preserve the energy. 

865
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:32,120
And depending on the race, I 
might want to take in the 

866
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:40,160
scenery. 
And if I'm, if I'm out on a 

867
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,840
morning run, some again, some 
days I'll think about nothing. 

868
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,800
Some days I'll plan for the day 
ahead and fix things in my mind,

869
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,800
maybe work related that I was 
unable to fix staring at the 

870
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:56,600
computer the previous day. 
But and early on when I, when I 

871
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:00,200
started doing marathon training 
long runs and all of a sudden I 

872
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:06,360
was out on my own for for three 
hours, I started questioning, 

873
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,280
asking myself big questions I'd 
never got around to asking 

874
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,920
before or that I'd never truly 
questioned. 

875
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:18,000
So I grew up in in Italy. 
I was a very good Catholic altar

876
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:25,040
boy and long run took my, my 
Christian faith away because all

877
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:26,480
of a sudden I had three hours to
kill. 

878
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:28,880
And I I questioned some of the 
beliefs I've never questioned 

879
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,840
before. 
But more often than not, it's, 

880
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:37,080
it's the mundane, although it is
nice sometimes on, on the longer

881
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:41,520
ultras to lose touch with, with 
the news, with reality, to not 

882
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,680
have the if I'm working, I want 
to know what's going on. 

883
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:48,840
I feel I need to know. 
I feel I have a responsibility 

884
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,800
as a citizen, a father, a 
husband, to know what's going 

885
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,560
on. 
But if I'm on that bridge going 

886
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,920
back and forth, you know, it's 
nice to get to the Sunday 

887
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:59,920
evening and not have a clue as 
to what's going on or what has 

888
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:01,680
happened in the world. 
Yeah. 

889
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:07,200
And thinking about you said you 
like taking the scenery, did you

890
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:12,800
see anything in the tunnel? 
At one point I, I didn't see 

891
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:14,840
creatures, I didn't see anything
moving. 

892
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,840
But there was a point when I 
couldn't recognise it as a 

893
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:20,920
tunnel I'd been in for the 
previous two days. 

894
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:26,640
And I think I did ask a couple 
of runners if I was in the 

895
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:32,400
tunnel. 
But yes, I, I don't know. 

896
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:37,280
And I was trying to that might 
have been when I was trying to 

897
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,840
teleport myself back home 
because I wasn't sure where I 

898
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:48,280
was and didn't quite work. 
So do you still you've done 

899
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,440
loads of events? 
Do you have a dream race or a 

900
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:55,760
bucket list event that you want 
to do or that you're planning on

901
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,840
doing? 
Well, you say I've done both 

902
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,480
events. 
I've not really done either of 

903
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:14,360
them and had I failed earlier on
in both of them I'd be able to 

904
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:19,800
let go I think. 
But because I got as close as I 

905
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:25,640
did, they are both my dream race
and my nightmare race, and I'm 

906
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:29,720
attempting them both next year. 
I'll be you soon. 

907
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,520
So the bridge is every other 
year. 

908
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:41,960
And so next year I'm going to 
attempt the what Mark calls the 

909
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,960
Overground, underground, 
underground, Overground double, 

910
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,320
which I believe only two people 
have achieved. 

911
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:52,440
No, three people now, and one of
them's on this call. 

912
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:59,880
So I bet I've promised my wife 
and I mean it, and I'll go on 

913
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:02,200
record. 
I'm just rolling the dice one 

914
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:07,040
more time with both speakers. 
She's concerned about what it 

915
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:12,560
does to my brain, which is not 
why I'd right to start with and 

916
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:18,640
I I understand the concern. 
Any medical professional would 

917
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,640
probably, maybe not necessarily 
the bridge, but would question 

918
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:29,320
what the tunnel might do and but
I 192 and 196 when the goal is 

919
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:34,880
200 is just tantalising glucose.
So I'll roll the dice one more 

920
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:40,280
time on both. 
I I I've got an opinion on which

921
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,360
one was harder, but which one do
you think is harder? 

922
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,840
Well, I know your opinion and I 
actually share it. 

923
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:53,320
I think the bridge is harder 
simply because you don't really.

924
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,880
We, I have this every week at 
Parkland, people coming up to me

925
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,360
saying, oh, I thought the bridge
was flat. 

926
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,400
Well, if the bridge was flat, it
would collapse. 

927
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,080
It's, I'm not a structural 
engineer, but I know that much. 

928
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,840
And you don't, you don't realize
it when you're driving over it, 

929
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,080
but when you're running over it,
you do realize there's a more 

930
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:20,120
significant elevation change. 
Now the tunnel's not flat 

931
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,600
either, but at least you've got 
a mile net downhill. 

932
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:29,560
So, but that's compensated by 
and I I already knew this 

933
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:31,240
because of doing hell on the 
Humber. 

934
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:37,880
The scenery is constantly 
changing in in May you see the 

935
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:41,000
afternoon, the sunset, the 
night, the sunrise. 

936
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,120
So on the mind, I would say 
bridge is easier. 

937
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,280
On the legs, I'd say bridge is 
harder. 

938
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,760
I I can understand that. 
For me it was the surface. 

939
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:04,320
The the tunnel is tarmac and the
bridge is concrete and you think

940
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:06,200
they're the same thing, but 
they're definitely not. 

941
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:09,680
No. 
Concrete is solid and tarmac's 

942
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:13,760
got that slight given it. 
Yes, no, absolutely agree. 

943
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:19,200
And I suspect that that because 
it didn't take me by surprise 

944
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:23,760
because I'd run on that bridge 
and the Humber Bridge for many a

945
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:27,760
mile before. 
But yes, you you certainly 

946
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,240
notice it more in the in the 
final stages of the race. 

947
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:37,560
So I would normally do, I would 
normally use shoes with a fairly

948
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,920
minimal drop. 
There's only on on my daily 

949
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:48,840
runs, but I was introduced to to
fairly bouncy hockers and and I 

950
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:53,520
use those on on the bridge not 
to run any faster, but just to 

951
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,040
delay at least the the pain 
kicking in. 

952
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:05,800
And moving on to what can be an 
awkward question, but is there 

953
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,440
anybody that you would like to 
have a run with whether they're 

954
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:13,040
with us or not? 
It's it's not an awkward 

955
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:17,200
question at all. 
The answer may not be standard, 

956
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:24,399
but as a massive lifelong Bruce 
Springsteen fan, I would merely 

957
01:08:24,399 --> 01:08:29,439
go out for a run with him. 
I know he doesn't run anymore. 

958
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:32,960
He he used to. 
Now he's his excuse is that he's

959
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:37,439
in his mid 70s. 
But and but otherwise, if I was 

960
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:41,439
a pick a runner, I'd I'm still 
at heart, I'm probably still a 

961
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:44,000
Roadrunner and I'd go for 
Elliot. 

962
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:53,960
That's a good answer. 
And again, those who've read the

963
01:08:53,960 --> 01:09:04,240
book wouldn't be surprised by 
this, but so I one the hardest 

964
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:06,600
question you can ask me is, are 
you an only child? 

965
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:10,560
So my younger brother was 
stillborn. 

966
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,479
My sorry, my older brother was 
stillborn. 

967
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:16,160
My younger brother died shortly 
after being born. 

968
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:21,319
And so I can never consider 
myself an only child. 

969
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:27,399
And on the one hand, maybe I 
they should have been my answer,

970
01:09:27,399 --> 01:09:31,880
but on the other, every ultra 
I've done, in fact, even from 

971
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:37,200
that first 10K, I've always felt
them with me every step of the 

972
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,120
way. 
So I consider I do run with 

973
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:41,840
them. 
And when you're doing 200 mile 

974
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:46,319
races and you're questioning how
you're going to get to the end, 

975
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:50,200
you remind yourself, I am 
fortunate. 

976
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:54,760
I have the option to do this. 
I've got the body to do this. 

977
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:57,440
I'm alive. 
I can do it. 

978
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:05,200
And that's that's something I've
always been been aware of. 

979
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,920
And it hits me just just before 
the gun goes off. 

980
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:13,680
And it's probably one reason 
I've DNF when I've lost my 

981
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,200
senses. 
But otherwise, I've never DNF 

982
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:20,600
because I've felt like throwing 
it out. 

983
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:25,280
Yeah. 
And your brothers are obviously 

984
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,840
running with you in your head, 
if not physically. 

985
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,040
And if you're listening to 
music, I'm sure Bruce 

986
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:36,240
Springsteen is with you as well.
So you just have to get kicked, 

987
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:38,000
Yogi. 
Yeah. 

988
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:39,960
That's fine. 
That's fine. 

989
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,520
So to close round up the 
interview unless Mike has any 

990
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:50,360
further questions. 
Aside from your Over Under 

991
01:10:50,440 --> 01:10:54,360
Cobain madness next year, do you
have anything else coming up for

992
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:59,400
the rest of 2025? 
So I'm doing autumn 100 in 

993
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:07,160
October and it's 100 miles. 
It's going to be tough, but to 

994
01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:11,800
be honest, the main reason I do 
it is because I did forge 

995
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:15,440
friendships, connections in that
Centurion community. 

996
01:11:15,440 --> 01:11:18,960
And I don't go back as I don't 
do as many as I used to because 

997
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,360
I've been doing other stuff. 
But I like to go back to that 

998
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:25,480
one and just see a few people. 
And it's also a good way of 

999
01:11:25,480 --> 01:11:28,800
gauging where I'm at fitness 
wise towards the end of the 

1000
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:32,680
year. 
But that's the only race. 

1001
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:36,920
And then I am running around a 
deserted caravan park in 

1002
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:42,400
Cleethorpes in November. 
They have back-to-back marathons

1003
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:45,040
and again that's just an excuse 
to go and see friends in the 

1004
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:49,120
area. 
But my focus is already I'm 

1005
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:54,320
already looking to to early 
March and anything I do is 

1006
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:59,000
always is it going to help or 
hinder what happens in March so.

1007
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:06,600
Well, on you go, Nicky. 
I was, I think I was about to 

1008
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:10,040
say what you were probably going
to say is we wish you the best 

1009
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:13,360
of luck for them. 
Thank you. 

1010
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:16,560
Thank you. 
Definitely same for me. 

1011
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:21,600
And on that note, I think as 
Nikki said, brings the the 

1012
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:27,000
interview for tonight to an end 
and just say thank you Nikki for

1013
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,880
being Nikki. 
Thank you Grakmo for coming on 

1014
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:34,800
and hopefully inspiring people. 
Go and buy his book and there's 

1015
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:37,440
goodbye from me. 
Thank you both. 

1016
01:12:37,480 --> 01:12:38,640
Goodbye. 
Thank. 

1017
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:39,000
You.