Hello and welcome to another episode of Run Till You're Done.
The guests that we have today is when I'm for a great story.
Like Jasmine Paris. She frequents the Pentalin pills
as a training ground and there's also a Salomon sponsored
athlete. Being sponsored with Salomon is
impressive enough, but as well as this, she does fantastic work
representing the black trail running community and even more
so on top of that, she holds down a full time job and the
most important job being a mum. So welcome to the show, Serena
Broadway. Thank you.
I think that's the first and last time I'm ever going to be
mentioned in the same breath as Jasmine Paris.
And you know what? I go up in the Pentlands quite
early in the morning, and I know she does too.
Never Sinner, but I think that's best for Jasmine because I don't
know if she'd be of Getaway. You might have seen her, but
just in a shadow. Maybe.
Right. Welcome, Serena.
First question that we always ask your guests is how did you
first get into running? I first got into running after
having my second child, so up until that point I've been quite
active, doing lots of different things with my husband.
So before our first child, we'd cycle, we'd do lots of hiking
and then that tailed off after the first child, which was fine.
And I just did lots of walking around town.
And then my second child was a year old.
I was like, I'm getting a bit itchy feet.
I think I need to do something for me, do something that goes
from the door. So it's easy though, I don't
have to make a class time or anything like that.
And actually did a couch to 5K with a social running group.
So I didn't want to just go straight into it.
So that was great because I met new people.
We always, although I said didn't want to meet at a certain
time. It's quite, you know, we did
meet on a Wednesday and did like started to build up and we had
runs we had to do during the week.
And then I did my, my 5K and then it all kind of spiralled
from there. So that's how I started.
I just wanted to move. I just wanted to do something
for me in a bit of time for me. And yeah, I found this group of
people that started talking about races and half marathons
and marathons, which I thought was absolutely nuts.
So it's like, why would you do that?
Why would you run that far? So it really was just a way of
kind of getting myself out and about.
So that's how I started and it kind of spiralled a bit.
And you mentioned people talking about races, which is a really
nice segue into the next question from doing your 5K.
What was your first race? My first race was the Movember
Run, 5K run around Holy Rood, which rim because it's 2K up up,
basically skirting around half the seat and then 3K down.
So that was my first and actually I just looked at my
Strava and I I did my eldest did the the mini mow beforehand and
I did it with a friend. So yeah, that was my first just
5K round half the seat, but it was, I think it was doing it
with someone and actually with both of our kids did the mini
one as well. Neither of my kids are into
running. Everyone asks me that like
they're they're not into it. They're into supporting.
I'm the with the cowbell. You'll hear them a mile away.
They will cheer people on like with real kind of ferocity.
Sometimes the comments, side comments that only children can
make. I've got a great video of one of
them clapping in Nishamoni go. Why is that man walking?
I thought it was a running race, but at a volume that everybody
could hear. So, you know, there's the the
positive and negative kind of cheering.
But that's what I kind of liked from the races that I was doing
it with someone. And I think the majority of the
races that I've done, either I've done it with someone or I
start to or I accrue friends. I, I don't know how to see that
kind of thing is negative. I, I've been during the West
Highway race, I've run across running mirror in the reverse
direction and stopped to people and they've been walking and
said to him, Oh, what, what's happening today, like is if I
didn't know what was happening and they went, oh, there's a
running race, so turn around and say, so why are you walking
then? And then suddenly they, they run
again because they feel embarrassed about it.
It's like I'm, I'm just trying to encourage you to get moving.
So I I see it as a positive. Yeah, and walking's legitimate,
by the way. I'd just like to say because
people, you know, I walk a lot because it feels like, how do
you run for that long night secret?
Don't. So yeah, it's like you walk up
the hills. I mean, I'm sorry, anyone that
runs up them, probably Mike is insane.
I just I don't see a logic. But if you're feeling
embarrassed about walking, which I'm not saying it is
embarrassing, but those people obviously were, it shows that
they could be running. And when I said it to them, it
wasn't going uphill, it was walking along a flat piece of
ground. So in their head, they just
needed something to push them along.
I'd often do it like if I'm walking and I'm like, come on,
Serena, one thing I do, I did a race with my friend other Nikki.
So I did a race with her and she says this phrase, shall we trot?
So sometimes if I'm not with her, I'll just say that and it
just kind of starts me going. Or I'll pick a right, you can
walk until that tree and then you need to to move or walk
until the end of the song if someone's playing or whatever,
and then we'll run. So yeah, trying because it is
once you start walking, it's really difficult to get out of
that. There was a good one when I was
doing spine Sprint that someone had been told to run when he hit
the reservoirs because obviously they're usually a path that's
flat against, you know, alongside the reservoirs.
So having those things that you can pick is like right now I'm
going to run. I think knowing where there's
going to be a photographer is like a good you know you have to
run because you can't be walking with sweat all over your face
when the photographer's coming. But why are they uphill?
And you can see everyone, everyone's shoulders go.
I don't have to run now. And they're looking past the
photographer and then you walk. So that as a good segue, as
Nikki would say to how did you get on to longer distances
you're talking about, I can't even remember which race you
said, you just said it there. The spine, yes, that's a one
spine challenger. One spine challenger.
So how? How did you get on to that
longer distance? Yeah, good question.
So I was, so I was doing lots. I did, I think I've gone up to
1/2 marathon with my races. So I've done the Scottish half
and some other half marathons. And then 2020 I was going to do
Copenhagen Marathon. We were going to go as a family.
We planned the holiday, got the passports because just had to
renew them. So we were like, why did we get
them for Copenhagen? And obviously COVID happened and
didn't do that. And then I started to go more in
the Pentland Hills, which I hadn't really done up until that
point. So first of all, going with a
couple of friends when we could meet up and then going on my
own. And also my husband Andrew is
quite a good motivator for me and I probably seize sees what I
can do before I can, if that makes sense.
So when we were doing hiking, he would we do these massive days
and I'd just be like really angry.
I'm thinking, why haven't you taken into account that I'm not,
as you know, fast as you or anything like that?
But now looking back at it, he could see what I could do before
I could see it. So he actually gave me Lizzie
Hawker's book runner, and she's won UTMB about five times.
I think it's a, a beautiful book about running.
So if anyone hasn't read it, I really recommend it.
And he would say things to me like, oh, going into the
Pentland Skyline next and I'd like right.
And then I would do things. And so obviously because of
COVID, there wasn't a races, but some of the companies would put
on challenges. So Rat race did something and I
cannot remember the race they used to have, but used to have
bands. Every time you did a 5 kilometre
loop, you would get a different coloured band.
So they did it over a weekend. So if you accrued these five
kilometre increments, you would then get, oh, it's called run
stock. So you would get these bands and
I was like, oh, I might do that over the weekend.
And some of the other people in the social club I was like, Oh
yeah, we should do that. And I kind of broken it down.
So I think I did like maybe 30 K like on a Friday and then I went
and did like a 10K run and then and then I think we all met up
on Sunday and then I looked at the different coloured bands and
I think like the 80 kilometre one or something was like purple
and it's my favorite colour. We all sat down for Sunday lunch
and I was a little Sunday dinner.
I was looking down and I was like, I'm like 12 kilometres off
doing like the maximum distance. And Angela just looked at me and
goes, you're going to go run after this.
And I do not recommend running after a first dinner, but I did
it. I was like, oh, this is grim.
And I, I think it was then and I did things like when I was
supposed to do the Copenhagen Marathon, I did the seven hills
of Edinburgh just as a solo run. So I went for my door and did
the seven hills and it just started to kind of like, you
know, or maybe I can do a little bit further.
You know, if you do 80K over 3-4 days, like can you condense that
and do that, you know, over as a, you know, one entire period.
And then in 2021 I did Ultra X Scotland, which might have been
the first time they did that, I think.
And it was still kind of COVID. So you had like 32nd increments
and stuff like that. And it just showed me a
different kind of race. So when I start it, when at the
start I was like, I felt I just can't explain.
Like, I still get nervous, but I can't explain.
Like, so, you know, people looked like they knew what they
were doing. This is the first time I've done
it. Can I do this?
And then I saw another woman who looked exactly the same, looked
like I could just see in her face.
And I just kind of went up to her and goes, this is a bit
crazy. It's a bit nuts, isn't it?
And we just had this exchange of like, this is I don't know why
I'm, why am I here now? And we'd kind of gone off and I
think I saw her at the end and we kind of had a hug and all
well done. And then she'd found me on
Facebook because I was doing that to raise money for my
friend's charity. And she donated to that and then
sent me a message on Facebook and said, oh, if you're ever
back in Scotland because of my accent, she was like, be great
to run with you. And I was like, oh, well, bad
luck for you because I actually do live in Scotland.
And it just, and it just started that kind of like that trail
running is a little bit different for me that you do
like have maybe more exchanges because you know, I did talk to
quite a few people in that race. And then in the same year I did
Ultra X Summer series in Yorkshire.
So 2 relatively local races and then got the points I needed to
put in for OCC, which is a completely different system to
now. It was much more accessible.
I didn't have to go and do their mandated races.
I could do ones that worked for me and my family.
And I got in. I was like, oh crikey.
And that's kind of how it started.
And then to get into, you know, I'd always we'd followed Spine
Winter for quite a while and I love that.
And everyone keeps saying, Oh, you're going to do it.
And I'm like, no, I'm not because it's like Christmas then
spineless. That's how it goes in our
family. Like literally like, oh,
Christmas, new year, Hogmanay, right.
We wait now for the nutters to be going 268 miles up the
Pennine way. There's, you know, be watch the
daily updates together. I'm I'm there tracking the dots.
And as I've got more into the community, I know more people
behind those dots, which is lovely as well.
And black trail runners actually had places for the different
distances and I thought, I'll just do the Sprint, just.
Only. Only it's.
Just a Sprint. That was like literally my
training. I was like, it's just a Sprint.
It's just a Sprint, but it's 46 miles.
But in my mind, to reduce it, I was like, it's just a Sprint.
But then people will be saying things like, oh, when you get to
the first checkpoint and then you'd have to say to them, but
you don't understand, I am running to the first checkpoint.
I have to have everything to get me to that first checkpoint.
So, yeah, but when I got there, like they talk about the spine
bubble and they talk about the spine family and it's true.
It it really is like you can't you come in there like the kit
check. Everyone is really nervous that
things won't get through and things like that.
But I had conversations with people.
I stayed at the youth hostel recommend if you're going to
start from Edale to go into the youth hostel and just had
exchanges with people like, and now they're my friends.
And then I went back the next year and they were like, I
thought you said you're only going to do the Sprint.
I know, I know I did. And then I got to like
checkpoints and there were people that I'd run with the
year before and they were, you're doing so well.
So yeah, I think it's that kind of a sense of adventure because
I I, I don't have time to recce roots.
I do a lot of sitting and watching YouTube videos, which
is just inspiring kids coming. What are you doing?
Why are you watching someone walk?
And it's like, because I need to understand like where you go
next. So it's really that what's
coming up, that sense of adventure.
And also then these amazing people, I meet their stories as
well. So that's kind of how I ended up
on this crazy journey of ultra distance running.
I've never heard of it referred to as spineless before, but I
totally understand what it means.
And yeah, I agree. That going forward.
Oh, you have to spineless you like, here we go.
And it's so true when you say that you start to get into the
spine family. I went to the finish line at the
start of the year just to I had the day off and I had this major
pool to go and see it and like, I really, really want to go.
And down I went. And it was brilliant just to
even have an hour. And it was so cool just to see
it in the flesh and see the hotel.
And I think, yeah, that's not going to be the last time I'm
going to see that, even if I see friends finishing or one day do
it myself. But who knows?
But even when I was doing Challenger S, like we had a bit
of an incident and this the safety team had to come out and
take someone I was running with away and they were like, don't
worry, you're going to get you warmed up.
We're going to get you back out there.
Oh, OK. Because I'd in my head like this
is ADNF. That's fine.
I'm happy. I want that person to be safe.
And they were like, Nope, we'll get you warmed up and and you'll
be on your way. And at the end, like checking
all your messages, the safety team, like someone from the
safety team messaged me and said, been following your dot.
I really wanted you to make it. And you, you know, so even even
though they're in it and doing all their safety stuff, they're
still wanting you to, to finish and, and yeah, it is something
special. The way you said it there, we
had an incident and they had to be taken away.
It was like, where did they get taken away to?
Oh. No, OK.
So I was with a group. We ended up being a group of
four going from Malantan. So, and we had made the decision
to go like it was not that that summer race, everyone kept
telling us how awful the weather was and how much better winter
was, which is just great when you're in it.
And one of the party had got cold on Fountains Fell.
So we had to push forward, come off Fountains Fell and she just
was very, very cold. So he wraps her up and you know,
the ethos of spine makes people like you want everyone to
succeed and you want to make sure everyone's safe.
That's not the case with other races that I've done because
people have paid a lot of money to do their race.
I don't necessarily think they would stop to help.
So we wrapped her up, got her, kept her warm, pressed her kind
of SOS and the, the safety team came and got her all warmed up
and she was at the end. She's actually saw us finish and
she was fine. So just for just the that's the
that's the story of that. But it yeah, it was just wanted
to make sure that she was safe and well.
And I and I was like, if this is a DNF, this is a DNF and I don't
care because I want that person to be OK.
So you've took us through quite your running resume and thank
you for sharing that because it was brilliant.
But let's bring it up to current day 2025.
You've had quite the year, haven't you?
Yeah, not the planned year that I thought I would have.
So last year I did Dale's Divide, which Dales Traverse,
sorry, Dales Traverse, Dales Dividers bike race, and then my
husband will find that funny. He's done that a couple of
times. So did Dales Traverse, which is
part of Northern Traverse. So Northern Traverse is split up
into the Lakes, the Dales and then the Yorkshire Moors.
And I, I did, if anyone followed Northern Traverse last year, it
was in a named storm. There were some pretty Hardy
people going out in the lakes in a named storm.
They had to divert the route because of it.
Me and Nicky had an interesting time in the Dales Traverse, but
it was also, it was, you know, doing it with Nicky, you know,
was great fun. It wasn't like the the race when
you're taking photo. It was head down.
Let's get this done. Everyone probably remembers last
winter, which was just wet, like the paths were rivers.
Everything was sodden, the bogs. We're very boggy.
It was, and it's in April, so you can get glorious weather or
you can get what we got hail, you know, horizontal hail.
It was, yeah, it was quite hard. And then I think Nikki turned
around in the car, said never doing that again.
And I was like, and then I have this group of people that we've
done like races together. We do like kind of relays
together. And I just said and I, I waited.
So then obviously quite soon after those races finished, it
opens up spots for next year. And I sat there and I, I think I
want to enter, but then I didn't.
And it was like full, I was like, oh, well, there you go.
I'll put my name on the waiting list, but I won't get it a week
later or even maybe a few days later.
I just get this message being like your spot's open if you
want to go and do Northern Traverse.
And I messaged this group and said, what do you think?
And they went way through messaging this group.
We all know that you want to do it.
So Northern Traverse, I probably should say, is 300 kilometres
from Saint Bees in the Lake District to Robin Hood's Bay in
Yorkshire. So it's basically coast to
coast. I don't know why I thought I
could do with it. And after that experience, you
would think why would you enter that race?
But yeah, so I, I, I did, I entered that race again.
I didn't, I didn't recce it. I'm very lucky to know some
pretty awesome people that have done it or have done parts of
the race. And people are super generous.
I would say if anyone's thinking about doing those races, like
obviously I'm open, I often get messages, I'm happy to share
what what it's like, especially from mid pack to the end,
because that's a different experience from those guys that
are doing it in 48 hours or 50 odd hours.
And I'm lucky that I have people that were wrecking the route.
So Victoria, who I ran, ended up running the race was not
planned, but I ended up running the race with she was doing
loads of wreckies and so she would let me know how the ground
was going. Anything to watch out for in the
sections. Turns out I didn't each didn't
need to because they ended up running the whole thing with
her. But there's, you know, Facebook
groups, if you see even like the elites, if you message them,
they will tell you stuff. So I would say that to people,
if you're thinking about doing a race and you just want and you
know someone that's done it, ask the question.
The worst is they don't respond, but usually people respond.
And I have one friend who says, oh, you need to listen to this
podcast and this podcast. So there were things like
reading, listening to podcasts, reading people's race reviews
and race reports and doing all that kind of stuff.
And then yes, I was at the start in Saint B's and thought, oh,
this is a long way and ran with Victoria, which was amazing.
We didn't expect to. And I think there was
camaraderie, but compromise and that.
So down on the downhills, she was so much faster.
On the uphills, I was faster. I think she would have been much
quicker in the checkpoints. The problem is, and if you
haven't guessed us already, I like to chat and I like people.
So it's checkpoints. I'm like, oh, who are you?
Why are you doing this? And oh, and you're like focus,
focus. You need to like eat your food,
go for a sleep and then get out. And I'm like, Nah, so
unfortunately I will, you know, you'll see my times 5 hours at
the checkpoints and she said two hours sleep.
What is she doing? And it, it was an like amazing
race. Every stage is completely
different. Like the lakes you expect to be
absolutely stunning, which they were.
We had the best weather. It was glorious sunshine, clear
skies, which meant clear skies at night, really cold because it
was April. So having to deal with that and
making sure that as soon as it got soon as the kind of sun went
down, you're putting on your layers and making sure you were
keeping warm was really important.
But we got the most amazing stars.
We got owls every night when we're in the Lake District.
There was just this trail of head torches going up and then I
was chatting away, sorry. And then I get Serena, is that
you? And in the dark, it was like a
photographer of the spine who was doing the race.
So he was like, had a hug. You could do it because he was
doing the lakes. And then and then and then when
you get to checkpoints, then you're checking on people to
make sure that they're OK and that they get to wear that, you
know, their finish lines as well.
So I would say it was really tough to watch Victoria.
I mean, she was amazing. Like she had injuries.
She had thrush in her mouth. So at the end to swallow gels
was so painful. It was so tough to watch but or
inspiring as well, that she just kept going.
Yeah, it was. And I saw, yeah, I saw people
that I'd seen in other races kind of come past me.
Then we go past each other. Every section is completely
different. People keep asking me which
section would you do? And I'm like, I don't know.
It depends what you want. And it's just, yeah, it's just a
very interesting race. And then when you finish,
because I finished at like 4-5 in the morning, I think.
And obviously, like you're in Robin Hood space.
They're like, you know, and I think that was the only thing I
learned from that was like, because I have been away from my
family for quite some time, I just wanted to get home.
Yeah, when I was just like, I was like, oh, I can stay
overnight. I had a hotel booked and then I
will come home. And I was just like, no, I am
going to have a quick nap and I am going to have the most hard
string journey where everyone was looking at me like, why is
she a zombie? And my feet were hurting, but I
just wanted to get home. But that race and the experience
and the people I've met like it's yeah, I, I really just, I
did love that race. I, I'm not saying that I
wouldn't go back and do it because I think probably do it
quicker, but I don't care. But I probably could have a
different experience. I'm never really bothered about
time, but I probably learnt like every race you learn something
about going to checkpoints or whatever it is main, you know,
looking after yourself and and how how to move and and all this
kind of stuff. You you learn every time there's
something you take away from each race.
But yeah, there were and the volunteers are amazing.
I had some crack. I mean, I came in Gladesdale
with the like a probably a blister like that and you could
see the medics eyes go, but you know, they just want you to help
you get through to the finish. So it was such an amazing
experience and that was the race.
You know, it was a lot of money. I'm not going to lie.
Like that's the thing as well. It's a lot of money.
And I was like, I would like to do these kind of, you know, see
people go off and they do like the West Island way or they go
and do coast to coast on their own.
Problem is, like I've always got pools from the family and
everything. So if unless I have the race
booked, you know, I was going to do that race, whether it was
glorious sunshine, which I had or horrific weather.
And it just made logistics easier.
Like, you know, pack my my drop bag, which goes to every
checkpoint and I know that I'm going to go there on that date
and I know that they'll be the infrastructure I need rather
than having to think about the B and BS I'm going to book.
How long is it going to take if I'm like, you know, if I'm slow
on this leg, just don't have the mental capacity for that in my
life at the moment. So I want these adventures of
long distance the easiest way I can do them, which obviously
puts time pressure on it because the race has the cut off times
and they need people to finish by a certain time.
But for me, my point in my life, that makes these things
possible. I think it's good as well that
you highlight that because aside from the running, and I think a
lot of us do seem to forget that there's life outside of running
and you, it is so important to have that support network.
Your husband does sound amazing, you know, and you said to
yourself, he cycles. I know he's done some big events
himself. So it's great to have that tag
team between you for the childcare and life in general.
But what I was going to ask off at the back of that, just to
clarify, you went from the smallest event to the biggest 1,
is that right? And the traverse.
Series. Yes, it did.
For my guest, Johnny Kilpatrick, he came to Upton that we
interviewed him just after that. So that's the one you've not
done the Lakes? Yeah, the middle one.
So I've done so I've they all tag in together.
So I've done the full amount. I haven't done them as single
ones. So, yeah, we did the Dales one
because in our heads it's 50K. But the thing to remember is
it's 50K but 37 K until the checkpoint.
But in my mind now warped by the spine, which is is not good
because Nikki was like, oh, this is quite hard.
I was like, yeah, but this is quite good because I can wear my
you know, I was running my wearing my running vest rather
than wearing running a, a backpack.
And I was like O37K to the next checkpoint.
That's fine because, you know, I'm used to spine.
What? It's 4646 miles.
But that's something to bear in mind for people that are wanting
to do this. I think the lakes probably has
more checkpoints or places you can stop to get stuff than say
the Dales and the Dales when we did it.
So the coast to coast is now becoming a national path.
So they're doing a lot of work on it when we did it, and it was
much wetter when me and Nikki did it compared to this year.
The first year we did it, we were going up to like probably
our calves, if not a bit higher in bogs.
They're now flag stoning all that.
And I was saying to Nikki, there's boardwalks over the box.
And it was so much easier. And I think give it a couple of
years when all that work is done and the the record that Damian
Hall set, it's going to be smashed because it's a
completely different route, which is something to bear in
mind when you do these ultras. Like people go, would you go
back? And I was like, but the time we
don't, you know, only sets those circumstances.
So when it's completely boggy and wet, you're never going to
be as quick as when it's bone dry and now has flagstones and
boardwalks. It's completely different race.
And you've done the original course now as well, so.
Yeah. So, and then, yeah, CCC was not
planned. I put into the ballot in January
and it's like never get in. I never get in of of only.
I think I had two or three stones from me, so I was like
won't get in. And then the things thing is you
put in in December and then you find out in January.
So it's super quick. It's not like London Marathon
who like to keep tangling until you know it's it's really quick.
And I knew a lot of other black trail runners had put their
names into the hat. And I saw the e-mail and I was
like, oh, UTNBCCC. And I was like waiting for it to
say, oh, unfortunately. And I was like, congratulate.
Oh no, open this phone. Sabrina swimmed down the phone.
But it also meant I'd already booked 7 Valleys, which I'm
doing in three weeks time because I'm doing it with
someone I met in Spine and we've got plans for next year, he
said, but we've got no plans for 2025.
So that's, and he is like, let's, I always said, well,
let's do something in the lakes. And he was like, let's do
something in September. And so we're like, let's book 7
valleys. I was like, fine, because I'm
not going to get into CC, that'll be fine.
And then actually when I got into CCC, my message to him was
like, I just don't think I can do this.
I think unfortunately I'm going to have to pull out of seven
valleys. You know when you make a
decision and it just as soon as you say something, you're like,
this doesn't feel right. So I messaged him back and I was
like, OK, I, I don't feel happy with this.
We've, this is what we've planned.
So I will see how my legs are after CCCI will be even slower
than I usually AM. And you can find me every time I
say CCC or Shamany the UTMB, he's picked Jelly babies, which
by the way, I don't think I can carry kilos of Jelly babies.
So I'm going to have to own him, owe him in arrears.
And then I just worried about how many Jelly babies and and
his probably nutrition taken intake after that.
So yeah, that's how this year has come about.
You you've mentioned 3 enablers. I'm not going to say an enabler
in a a bad way. I've I think it's for the, it's
a good thing for you because it's making you go out and do
the races. There was Nikki, Victoria and
somebody in the Seven Valleys. Do you want to give them a
shout? Out Carl, yeah, so Carl, yeah,
we met doing I don't this is the Rick race thing.
So we had that experience in on challenge us out and I was like
that was an experience and we sat down together at the end of
that and had a chat. He had rolled his ankle at mile
16 by the way, and it was huge. When he took his shoe off, I
just did like a double take and I was like you need to get a
medic to see that it was, nothing was broken, it was just
badly sprained. But he had managed to run over
100 miles with that. So we were the week after that,
we were kind of exchanging messages.
I was writing things and saying this is this is how you remember
it kind of thing. And so, yeah, we kind of had
that experience. We're just chatting a lot.
And then he sent me a message on the Saturday afterwards.
So I think we finished on the Mondays, Saturday afterwards.
So it's been a nice day here. We've had sat in the garden, had
a bottle of wine and I've said he said to his wife that I think
I want to do the North Challenger North in 2026 and the
full spine in 2027. I'd love to do it with you.
And I was like, you mad person. Did you not remember the
experience we've just had? But I was like, yeah, sure, sure
game for it. So we just, you know, I'm just
lucky to and I I think my first neighbor actually is Andrew, you
know, but I'm just lucky to have these people.
I have a lot of them, if I'm honest, a lot of people that
I've never met in real life but have messaged me on Instagram
or, you know, I have conversations with who are just
so supportive. And but Andrew is the first one
because it's like, yeah, you go do that thing.
Go, you know, you know, and I always really makes me annoyed
when they're like, oh, you're, I get this a lot.
You're so lucky to have a husband that does this for you.
It's like, well, first of all, we both have children, you know,
I'm not the only parent. And the other thing is as well
as Nikki said, he does his crazy bike stuff, right?
So like he did Highland Trail this year.
So that was 550 miles around the Highlands.
Some points carrying his bike, which I never understand.
Like you've got the whole point is the bike makes it easier.
Why would you carry? So we just want to show our
girls that it, it doesn't matter what it is, but if you really
want to do something and you find that thing that makes you
happy or pushes you a bit beyond what you thought was possible,
to really give that the time it needs, which isn't easy.
It's early mornings, you feel tired, you feel rubbish.
Sometimes you don't want to go for that run and sometimes you
don't. But yeah, I just and I am very,
very lucky to have all these people like Lee, who is Lee
Helen? I have a lot of people that I'm
like, oh, I'm going for a run. Penton's want to come and
they're like, yeah, sure. And I'm like, what time do you
want to go? And I'm like 6 and they're like,
sure. And you're like, how do I have
these people in my life that are just don't bat an eyelid and
just go, yeah, sure. 6 O clock. And what what distance do you
want to do? What elevation and they'll, you
know, turn up or and think about doing this race.
Do you want to do it with me? Sure.
And you're like, how how do I have these people?
And then, yeah, all these people that I'm still yet to meet.
It was great to meet Nikki in real life only for a short
amount of time. We'll have a proper run together
at some point. But it's, you know, having those
exchanges is is amazing. And you do, you do forget what I
do is quite silly. And then the girls will say
something to someone and they'll be like, oh, have you been out
for. I'm constantly wearing running
gear, whether I've gone for a run, whether I'm going for a
run, but it's comfortable. That's what I like about going
to Chamonix. Everyone's in running gear and
they don't ask you if you've been for a run or if you're
going for a run because it's just normal.
And then they'll and they'll say something glibly like, oh, have
you done a race? And.
And one of us go, yeah, I mean, she ran like 100 kilometers and
they'll be like, you're 10. And then I don't know.
No, they're like, yeah, it is a bit weird.
I think the worst one time I realized it was a bit weird was
when one of the girls was at gymnastic competition in running
gear, and I was ready to go. It was a glorious day.
And I was like, why am I sat in sports hall?
Like, you do your thing and then I'm going for a fun.
And when I was going, oh, going for a run.
Yeah. Yeah.
How far? How far?
And I went 03 to four hours anyway.
It's just like, Oh yeah, it's not normal.
But it is easy to forget, as you say, because as we said there
earlier on Spain Sprint, it's only 46 miles and it, it is
normalizing it like amongst the runners, like what we do do is
nuts. But then when you say it to a
normal person, they do look at you.
It's easy for us to forget. It's more or less 2 marathons
just shy of do you know what I mean?
It's it's crazy. But then I always think I could
never run a marathon. So people come to me and like,
oh God, you know, I was like, I haven't run a marathon.
I haven't run a road marathon. I don't think I could do it
because heard. That disgusting.
To be honest, I do park runs. I'm like, why would anyone run 5
kilometres? This is disgusting.
But yeah, I just don't think I could do it because I did the 10
women's 10 KA couple of years ago in Edinburgh and we were
running like I think it was the Royal Mile or something.
And it was just this beautiful like view of Edinburgh.
And I was like, got my camera out because I'm used to like
walking with the poles or whatever.
Oh, look at that stunning sunrise.
I'll take a picture. And then everyone was just
pelting past me. It's like, not this kind of
race. I need to keep going so.
Yeah. Oh, yes, yeah.
I think you've answered the question is going to ask
Copenhagen Marathon. You've not been back.
I would love to go to Copenhagen.
I don't think I have a marathon in me.
I'd, I'd, I'd I just. Yeah.
I would say do one just for well.
For suffering. Yeah, entirely.
I was told by another coach they feel it's really good to have a
marathon block, a road marathon block under your belt just for
that discipline, speeds, all that.
But I'm with you, Serena. I've got, I would love to do
Loch Ness one day, but I think because, but I'm probably
Dublin, those are the only two that I think I would maybe try
and do it. But I'm like, you are like
seeing stuff and oh look, there's a squirrel.
I'll take a picture of it. I don't think it'd be fun as
well. I can't imagine, like, coming
off like runs where you have to hit paces.
And I think I like, because I have asked before, I'm like, if
I did a marathon, would I have to do it all on road?
And they were like, yeah. Yeah, I.
Mean on the canal as well like so I'm I'm very lucky where I'm
situated. I have like the canal not that
far. So I do do like interval
sessions and Sprint sessions and then I have the Pentlands like
maximum probably about 5K for my house.
You're so lucky. I, I know I am so, so lucky
because otherwise you usually have the hills or the flats, you
don't usually have both. But the thing that gets me, you
can tell when it's coming up to Edinburgh Marathon Festival
because I'm like blooming gels everywhere.
I'm actually picking up the gel packets and I'm like, I have to
think to myself, these people didn't mean to do this.
So I'm like picking them up and I'm like, yeah, I know.
But like the third or fourth one, you're like, come on.
And you can tell because they, I'm quite probably, I don't
know, 810K from the beginning of the canal.
So you can tell when people are starting to get to their bigger,
bigger distances because the gels become more.
So I, I just don't think I've got it in me.
I mean, I'd even like London Marathon and everyone says the
atmosphere is amazing. But what you said about being in
those pens, I think I'd just find it not fun.
And that's why I do it. At the end of the day, we do it
for fun. That's what I have to remind
myself. And people are like, oh, did you
get this time? Did you?
I do it for fun. This is, I'm not an elite
athlete. I'm not an elite athlete.
And you know, when we're waiting at the when you do CCC, there's
a big climb at Cormier and we just stopped because there's so
many people and one of the people pushing past like their
position was more important than ours.
And they go to stand around and the podium's gone.
People you don't need to go past.
And it's, I mean, I'm lucky enough to know people that do
podium, but it's like, that's not me.
I do this for fun. You you said that people drop in
gel wrappers everywhere for marathon.
I'm sure it happens everywhere, which is not a good thing.
But what do you fuel with? If they're fueling the gels, are
you fueling the gels? Real food?
What you fueling with? A mix.
It's a it's a mix. I love my wine gums and Haribo
Twin Snakes, which was one of the ambassadors from Salomon put
Rach put me on to those and now I have them.
I think of her. So it's quite nice because I
think like when I have those. So I have have those sweets, I
have gels, I have kind of crisps bars and then I'm I don't want
to need to touch wood, but there's nothing around me.
But I'm quite lucky that I can eat and run quite relatively
quickly afterwards. So race is like Northern
Traverse. I was eating things like
macaroni cheese, chilli, Curry, scrambled eggs, hash Browns.
Coke obviously is a really good one when you're doing these
races. So a lot of like when I get to
checkpoints, normal food and I, I am lucky that I can then go
and walk, run afterwards. In Chamonix, it was the broth
with the noodles or the broth with the the rice in it,
watermelon, salami, cheese, bread, coke, which is really
good just to get that in. And then gels, especially
towards the end of CCC, it was, it was a lot of gel didn't have
time. I did not have time to be like,
yeah, faffing around too much. So yeah, a mix and I and it
changes because when I started, I used to eat loads of malt loaf
of tea bread that I made myself. And then after one race, I was
like, don't ever see that again. So variety, if you can get some
variety of what you're going to eat, cheese sandwiches, it's
like, you know, like the thins and then cheese sandwiches and
stuff like that. But just a real, real mix of of
food. Everything you've said there, I
think it was one thing. I can't even remember what it
was that everything else. Fully agree.
I would have all of it. And I'm like you, I'll eat and
run, which comes in handy sometimes.
Really, really handy, Yeah. And then it's like, you know,
Northern Traverse, they were really good.
But the thing I found when I went to one of the first
checkpoints where they had food is they put too much in and it's
better to have a little bit and then say, can I have some more?
Because they gave me a massive portion.
I was like, oh, it's not feeling right.
And actually when I was at Northern Traverse, when I got to
Kirkby Steven, I went really faint.
I think it was just we were running throughout the day and
just it was the bit between Sharp and Kirk be Steven, which
is pretty much nothing apart from kind of rolling hills.
And I just went really faint and I actually started to cry.
I was like, this is my race. And they were like, sit down,
have a Coke. And then I felt much better.
So I would say, I know people say I don't really drink Coke.
I was like, well, I mean, it really helps when you're in the
races and when you see the actual actual genuine Coke,
you're like. Yeah.
In CCC they had banks of like soda streams and they were just
like making Coke via. So it was like that was a sight
to behold, but it wasn't the real stuff.
Put put real stuff in the bag in your drop bag if you if you
think that'll give you your boost.
Definitely, that's great advice. It's saved my race on a couple
of occasions for sure. As we mentioned in the
introduction, you've got involvement with Black Trail
Runners and Salomon. How did you get involved with
both and? Key tells a bit about them.
Yeah, sure. So the, you know, Black Trail
Runners is a, is a charity which is there to increase
representation of black people in the trails.
So making it visible that we're here.
And I think The thing is, is that when I started running, you
know, I, I suppose running, I've always and I didn't like running
at school. And I think it's kind of a a key
threat to a lot of people that do this now is like, oh, I
didn't really like it at school. And those associated runners
with probably the swinging ponytails, which is sounds
really weird, but it was just like that's what you know, you
see a lot in athletes and I didn't have that.
And actually the first time I kind of become a came aware of
black trail runners was I saw a picture of Serena pace front
Humphreys and it was this dark image, but her hair was like
Afro and out. I was like, Oh my God, there's
someone that looks like me doing the thing I like to do.
And actually when I went out to Chamonix in 2021, like we made
that a family holiday and I have so many amazing memories from
that. But it also felt really isolated
and that I wasn't represented in a lot of the kind of marketing
that they do, but also just the demographic that go to the
races. It just didn't feel like I
belonged. And then we were starting that
start line like, do I belong here?
It it's quite, it's really isolating.
But Sabrina met me at the finish line and it, I had this hug and
this conversation with her and it, you know, it just meant so
much. And that charity's doing so much
to try and show that we, we belong there.
To make sure races are aware of the charity and the things that
they can do to encourage others. So they, you know, they put on
with black chair runners, put on social runs, they have places
they give support to people that want to do runs or races.
They do skills so people feel empowered to be there.
And then this year we had 7 black women doing different
races at UT MB and we got in on the Wednesday and Sabrina had an
event. And so we kind of got in, dumped
the stuff at the Airbnb and came, went to Chamonix to this
event. And it was just completely
different experience to the first experience.
I had to come into Chamonix. You know, there'd been three
women who'd already done their race, they'd done ETC, which 15
kilometres, 2000 metres of elevation, like unbelievable.
So they were on the high from there.
And then I met so Rebecca again, Juliet Saabs and myself were
still to run. We were there launching here for
the women's race with a collaboration with black trail
runners. So they have AT shirt that you
can buy and some of the proceeds go to the charity.
And, you know, I've had conversations and then see
people do a race and it just feels so good to people.
Like I feel like I can do it. And I was like, you can totally
do it. And it's just such a supportive
environment, you know, for people to have conversations
about how they feel, how the races make them feel.
And yeah, it's, it's just, it's a such a supportive and
community. So it's really important.
And they're doing. And The thing is a thing to bear
in mind when people see especially Sabrina, but they're
obviously other trustees as well.
Sunny but what we see the work that she does is like an
iceberg. We see the tip of it.
She's having a lot of conversations with a lot of
brands, a lot of a lot of organisations that want to maybe
slap the label on it, but don't want to do the work.
And and she's, you know, they're the trustees are really, you
know, no, you have to be in this.
You have to understand it. You can't just want to put your
label on it for a particular race.
So that's, you know, I'm forever grateful to them.
And if anybody wants to know more, I would say read Sabrina
Pace Humphrey's book, Black Sheep.
As you know, I read that book and it sounds really stupid
because I didn't think I was the only person.
But the experience she's talking about like, Oh my God, she's
experienced the same things as me.
And she talks a lot about her past, the things she's
experienced some horrific things and races.
And she, you know, I feel grateful because then I don't
have to share like my experiences because what you
have to understand is people, it's sharing their experiences
is their trauma in some cases. And the analogy, and it sounds
quite glib, but it's like saying, oh, you know, we're
doing something about Rd. traffic accidents and you were
in a road traffic accident. Can you explain to me how that
affected your life? Some of these, you know, these
experiences you're talking about, you know, it's really
painful when you think about the things that you've had to
endure. And if I can point to say, look,
go read Sabrina's book and understand what people are
having to deal with. Yeah.
So the, the support that goes behind that is really important.
And yeah, it was just such a different experience.
I was on the start line with Juliet at CCC as well.
And it was, it was just great. And like, she's, you know, she'd
just written a post and she's like, well, she could spot me
because like there was only two. Well, we could only see two of
us, which I mean, it's handy, but it's not what we want at
all. And there were seven of us this
year. But we want more and it
shouldn't be a closed community. And I think, you know, I've
talked about how I got into OCC last time, but to get into CCCI
had to do, oh, I didn't have to do nice, but I ran the nice.
I, I did one race. But you get emails from UTMB and
go, oh, if you've got 5 stones, you're more likely to get in.
And it's like, give it, how much do those 5 stones cost?
Yeah. So yeah, that that's a bit about
black trail runners, but I would suggest that people go look,
support, buy the T-shirts. The one thing I'm quite keen on
is that change doesn't come from the minorities.
Change comes from everybody supporting the minorities.
So don't just look at us and go, you're doing a good job.
How can others support? You don't have to be black to
join Black trail runners allies. We need our allies as well, so
don't think, oh I'm not black, I can't join.
Please join Black Trail Runners and see what you can do to help
as well. I don't know if you'll know,
Serena, but you say there were seven women black trail runners
at UTMB. Do you know how many males there
were? So from black trail runners, so
literally that's that's from our group.
So there may have been more don't think UTMB publish any
ethnicity stats. So it could be harder to get on
that. And that's one thing black trail
runners are pushing for because how can you know if you're
making a difference if you don't take that data?
So a lot of races that are affiliated or have worked with
black trail runners do publish those statistics.
But from black trail runners, there was Simba doing UTMB.
But yeah, it's and it is a lottery, right?
We have to be in it to win it. Yeah, I was going to ask what
can brands and races do in as a podcast?
What can we do? We we've had yourself, people
like yourself coming on talking about these sort of things.
We had Karen Nickel and David Martin Cassani about the women's
side of how do we get women involved?
So it's like, what can people do?
And I guess you answered that by going looking up black trail
runners, go and buy the book, read the book.
Is there anything else that? Sabrina puts in the in the book,
there is a thing about how to be an, an ally.
And I really would read the book and read that and, and get
involved in it, like wear the T-shirts, wear the bus, find out
what you know, what are the barriers for races.
It is getting involved in that and and having those
conversations and not wanting to be in it, to be seen to be doing
it, but in it because you you want to see a diversity in the
people that are doing your races.
Yeah. I mean, I think for for women
there's there's obvious things you can do so making sure
there's period products etcetera in there.
But even still, like some of the the race marketing is to be
desired. I was.
Yeah, I think you've stunned us there.
Oh, you asked about Salomon as well?
Because I can't forget forget them.
They're not important. They are important.
They are important, but I actually feel after that doesn't
seem as important. Salomon are a big brand and have
plenty of ambassadors, but what you just spoke about there was
so important. And I have actually started
reading Sabrina's book. I'm on chapter 3 and already I'm
a bit like, oh gosh, this is a really hard read but I'm gonna
try and persevere 'cause I'm one for trying to avoid, you know,
sad topics. I won't watch films with the dog
in because I know the dog dies ultimately at the end, so let's
just avoid them. But knowing Sabrina through
Instagram and seeing it's truly to God, it's got to have a
positive ending. The The thing is as well, like
my daughter picked up the book where she's in the race where no
one helps her when she's slipping off a slope.
And my daughters, I don't understand why no one would
help. Yeah.
And she was crying and she was like, I just don't understand
why no one would help. But you say Salomon's not
important, but it is important to me.
Like they've, you know, I could. I don't think I could afford to
do these races without the kit that they've given me.
And that is another thing to say.
The kit is expensive, like, and you need it.
You need the good kit. And like, we're lucky that we've
been into hiking and we've been into outdoor sports.
So we do have a lot of good kit that we've built up over the
time. But, you know, even I went to
Spy and Sprint and you have to have a bivvy.
And we had a bivvy. It's not a very lightweight one,
but we had one. So I just put that in and the
guy doing the kit check was like, there are lighter ones.
I was like, yeah, but this is the one we have.
But the things that I do and I would say to other people like
don't you know, I've lent, you know, Rebecca Deveraux who did
this, she came to 3rd. Black Trail Runner came third in
the Spine Sprint winter this year.
And I'm lending some people kit for the young the the next Spine
Races. Ask to borrow kit.
Put it out there on Instagram or whatever.
Come and find me, ask the question.
Black Trail Runners also has kit as well, but don't buy the kit
if you don't think you're going to need it.
Like I often lend out kit to people.
I'm in a very fortunate position that I have really good kit that
I can use and honestly then enabling me to do this, I have
the ambassadors as well. They're an amazing group of
people with a lot of good experience that I'm able to lean
on. So although they're a big brand
to me, they've made a difference to me and the ability to be able
to do these races, to have access or not to have access.
I'm sure I would have found those people.
But I get to run with these people and, you know, and, you
know, they're my friends. Like it's mad.
So yeah, you can be quite like it's black tribe one is
important to me, but. Salomon giving me this kit has
enabled me to be able to do these races because it would be
I do that race or I have to buy a pair of I don't know and a a
really good waterproof jacket. I I was obviously joking.
That I know. But it it just what what you've
said there, it does show how they are important.
They are backing your movement, as it were.
And I'm a completely normal runner.
Like when they asked me, I was like, I'm sorry, me.
I don't, I don't podium. I run pretty slow.
Do you know what I mean? I'm a I'm a mum.
I just, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm just a normal person
because I was like, meet me. You OK, you know.
And it, it, it did challenge me because I was like, why?
Why me? So yeah, I was.
I was. Going to ask that as well.
How how does an ambassadorship come about?
Is there an application process or do they go and seek on social
media and events the runners that they feel would be good to
represent? Them so it was a mix.
Some people applied. I didn't see that and I don't
know if I would have applied because I thought me.
So yeah, I had a direct message and I was like, this isn't real.
But then the person, yeah, Then the person said, do you want me
to give you my e-mail address? And I was like, this could be
real. And we just had a conversation
and they asked me about running in a bit like this.
I just didn't stop. That's not a bad thing.
It shows enthusiasm and you're a fantastic ambassador for
Salomon. I try.
And next question, and it might be a Salomon sponsored race or
choose any other one because there are plenty out there.
What What would be your favorite race?
I've done. Done or bucket list or you
choose. Let's say bucket list mate.
That's the next year's question. Ahead, I really find it
difficult to nail down a race that I would say that was my
favorite race because they all give you something different and
an experience that you can lean on.
So, you know, when you think things are hard, you know.
Oh, do you remember that time when we were slugging up?
Phantoms fell, we couldn't see anything and it was raining and
it was miserable. Or you know, when you were
running in the Alps in a pinch me moment and you're looking
around and seeing these mountains.
I'm just very fortunate that I've done some amazing races and
met some amazing people. I always love the races I do
with my friends. So we did a relay across
Scotland. We've done Loch Ness 24 this
year. We did scurry two bridges and
it's just fun. Like the first year I was like,
oh, it'd be fun. We just put snacks in the car.
We'll run and everyone's like, yes.
And I was like, OK. And then Loch Ness 24 was like,
it was like there would be like the relay but the snacks won't
move. Yes, but every race I I either
gain something or someone from it.
So I'm, I'm really lucky in that way.
I, I'd find it difficult to say 1 particular race.
I mean, running through Shamani with my girls after doing OCC
and CCC is so special. And I was so worried doing the
CCC when I got like to 1 checkpoint and they were like 10
minutes to go and I was like, Oh my God, I'm not going to be able
to do the 100K, which means they're not going to get to do
the 100 meters, which is crazy. But yeah, I am very lucky to
have. I wouldn't pick one.
I can't pick one race because one race leads to another one
experience leads myself to think, oh, maybe I could do
that. That thing that's really hard.
It's a crap answer, sorry. Because it's just like, and even
like building up to the races, the training ones you do with
people or the, you know, the chats you have with people.
And afterwards when me and Lee haven't met for a while because
we're doing our silly races and he's like, we need to have a
catch up. We need to have a catch up and
how invested people are. And like, I can help you with
that changing one. It's just, yeah, very lucky to
have the experiences. And as I mentioned there as
well, do you have a bucket list race the because you have done
so many spectacular ones already as the one on your radar that
you think, oh, that's the ultimate.
I would like to complete the spine, that's no secret.
Next year I'm doing challenge in North, so that would be doing
the full spine in two stages and then see if I can do it in one.
In the winter or the summer. Summer, summer, summer.
Even if. I thought.
The winter had better weather even, Well, even if it's better
weather, I, I was like this year, like the glorious snow
they had at the beginning. I was like, oh, but no, I just,
I, I want to see it. And I think that's the thing.
If you do the winter one, there's so much time and
darkness and you have to train over Christmas and I'm like, so
yeah, the the summer's fine is definitely one on my bucket
list. I even want things like I want
to run the West Highland way. I don't think I necessarily want
to do any of the races, but I would quite like to fast pack
it. There's there's a quite a few
long distance routes that I would like at some point to do.
Not races, but places I'd like, yeah, vouchers and places I'd
like to go and see. So yeah.
So leading on from that, the question that we always ask is
why? Why do you get out there?
Why do you run that's? A good question I I run because
it does help me mentally as well.
It's a good break. I find, you know, sometimes when
you're, you know, mulling something over, I quite like to
go for a run one I to get away from like sitting down and
thinking about it, but actually one foot in front of another.
You might Mull it over in in a different place and it and it's
like clicks or to completely clear my head.
I am not someone that can do yoga and get into that kind of
quiet space. My brain is like, I like, I
haven't done it for ages, but I'd like doing yoga, but I'd be
like, oh, and then I can put this on and then tomorrow I'll
have the dinner this and then I don't forget to put that in so
and so's bag. And then, oh, tomorrow I'm
travelling here. So I need to and my brain when
I'm running, for some reason it doesn't do that.
So that the probably the only time that my probably my brain
is the most quiet is is when I'm running.
But I like to move, like I've always said that it might not be
running forever. At the moment it's running, but
I like to move. Done cycling, done hiking, you
know, I like to move. I like to get out there in the
outdoors to go to the same places, same views and see it
over the year. So when you get to the, you
know, winter of the Pentlands and seeing all whites and then
you'll start to see, you know, turn green and then you'll start
to see the gorse of yellow and then yours.
Now it's, you know, the Heather of, you know, purple Heather.
It's really nice. And, you know, I can get up at
ridiculous o'clock and the sun rises and the sun sets.
The more I see the sun rises. I don't.
I tend to run first thing in the morning rather than last thing
at night. But even that like seeing that
and then seeing the sun rises and you said, well, I still do
take pictures of animals that you don't necessarily see a lot.
And not with my youngest son. What did you see today?
Like a sheep Wasn't very interesting.
Sorry. Or you say you saw something
like I saw a weasel slashed out because I don't know the
difference. And they're like, did you take a
picture? I was like, well, straight past
me. So no.
So yeah, I run for lots of different things and it's it,
it's amazing the confidence that running has given me.
I'm not an overly confident person.
And I definitely, you know, I applied for a job with work that
I don't think I would have applied for if I didn't run,
which sounds mad. But when you've got your through
self through sticky situations and races, just feel your
confidence grows. And I feel like I've done that
over time, like expanded my own comfortable zone a bit more and
a bit more through the races that I've done.
So it's helped me feel a bit more confident as well.
Yeah, I, I, I think you have answered the.
The next question was what do you think about when you're
running and? Everything and nothing, yeah.
So that's a valid answer. So we're going to move on to the
next one, which is our our awkward question for the day.
And it might not be who would you like to run with a live, not
with this not fictional reel. It's up to you how you answer
it. I, you know, when you run with
people, it's such a special, special thing.
So I've run with, I, I don't necessarily like running with
big groups of people, but like if you run with like threes,
fours. And then when you start to get
to know people and you're side by side or in, you know, 1 to
one as well. And you'll share things that you
won't share if you're sat face to face having a coffee, right?
And you'll talk about things. And there's, you know, been
times when I've just had to turn around and give someone a
massive hug. It's such as, you know, because
they're like, well, this thing's happening, but when you're
focusing on getting, you know, 1 foot in front of another, but
you're just talking about things.
So I'm probably going to cop out here and say like, I am so
lucky. You know, I don't feel like me
and Nikki have had a proper run together, but yet there's loads
of people that have. I've had chats with my Instagram
is not fair to accrue followers. I have a lot of conversations
behind the scenes and I think that's the one thing that's
important is that people send me like especially for CCC sent me
messages and I was just overwhelmed in a good way by the
support that people have for me. And I hope I reflect that back
out, that when I see people doing their races, I try and
drop them a message. And so I'm going to cop out and
say there's a lot of people. There's lots of people I still
haven't gone for runs with. There's people like Lee, Nicky,
Helen, that it's really tricky because we're all doing races
and we want to meet up. So there's probably not one
person. It's lots of people that I not
in all one go because. But I I just I really love and
treasure that one to one time that you get with someone when
you run side by side. And you know, me and Lee were
doing a run in the Pentlands and I before I met up with Lee, I
saw a woman running down and exchanged to hi.
How you doing? Not much.
And then me and Lee did the run and then we were going up for
kits for people that know Pentlands and this woman was
running down. I was like, hi and just start.
I will talk to anyone. My daughters love that about me
and people in the Pentlands must love that about me as well.
Oh my God, we should shut up. I just want to go.
But I just had. And she said, were you in
Germany in 2021? And I was like, yes.
And and she also has children. So obviously I had the girls and
was wrangling them and then I said well, we should exchange
numbers. And then we went for a run and
we had some an amazing talk about being mums that do stuff
AO do runs and races and those conversations they do, they do
mean a lot to me. So it's not one person, but it's
having those those moments with people I find amazing, really.
And I guess that answers the question of why do you run so
that you can have that conversations.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it is.
Yeah. I do think it's pretty crazy
when you think about it. But you have these connections
with people, incidences that happen that forge friendships
and they're like people like, how did you meet?
Oh. It was on the Internet well.
That's, that is, that is really a tricky thing to talk about.
But you know, Katie, Katie who I was probably one of the first
people I met from Instagram, she literally put up, I'm in
Edinburgh. Does anybody fancy a run?
I was like, Yep. And then that's you'd just go,
yeah. And then, you know, you cannot
see people for a while. You're following their
adventures on Instagram. And then you come back together
and exchange what you've done. So yeah, it's it's and you share
some special places together, like ridiculous times of, of
races and, you know, singing Bon Jovi halfway through Northern.
That's because we went halfway there as things you're, you're
not going to forget or you know, when I was doing CCC, like I
said, I was at 1 checkpoint, it's 10 minutes to go and
someone, Juliet's team said is there anything we can do?
What can we do to help? And I was like, no, no, I'm
fine. I'm just going to get a coke and
have a gel. And they gave me, they just
handed me a packet of hula hoops and looked at me like, you can
do this. And those hula hoops was just, I
only took a few, but just really helped, you know, it's just,
yeah, it's a quite a special thing when you go through those
those kind of instance together. So this has been a fabulous
chat. Serena, thank you so much for
coming on. Just one last question to wrap
us up as we are unfortunately running out of time.
What is next for your running wise?
Is it 7 valleys? I have 7 valleys with a bunch of
Jelly babies to give to Carl, but I'm looking forward to it.
I think the reason why I was a bit crestfallen when I thought
I'd have to give give it up was that I know a lot of people that
going, we're going to share that time with Carl.
We're going to have a proper catch up message in since
Challenge of South. But we haven't seen each other
and he's done races and I've done races and I know Lee's
going down as Carly that I follow.
That's going to be there's going to be quite a few people there.
Lakes is a special place. I expect it will rain, but I
hope it doesn't come on September last flourish of of
heat. So that's that's me.
And then I usually have a bit of a break around lead up to
Christmas because it's just so busy with kids, Christmas, all
their stuff. So I tend to kind of not do too
much, kind of like train for an event.
I might do what social runs. So anyone that wants to go to
Pentlands, that's when I'll be not maybe doing silly o'clock
runs or long, long runs. And then after January, I'll be
putting spine on to get myself ready for then June next year
when I try and do Challenger N sorry, fantastic.
That's what's ahead of me. So.
So what's spine in summer called if winter is spinous?
Oh, I don't know. Have no idea.
Have to think of something, will we?
There's a challenge. It's it's called hoping there's
warm weather, but there never is.
Right. I think sadly we're running out
of time. We we all three of us, I think
have something to do. But it's been a great chat, very
inspiring. I would say you got a message to
send and you're definitely talking about it and talk about
it on trails. People want to listen.
Hopefully they'll do something about it and as all we we can
say is we, we want to pass the message on as well.
So it comes from me to say thank you Serena for being on, Thank
you Nikki for being Nikki, and it's goodbye for me.
Thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me.