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Hello and welcome to another 
episode of Run Till You're Done.

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The guests that we have today is
when I'm for a great story. 

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Like Jasmine Paris. 
She frequents the Pentalin pills

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as a training ground and there's
also a Salomon sponsored 

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athlete. 
Being sponsored with Salomon is 

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impressive enough, but as well 
as this, she does fantastic work

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representing the black trail 
running community and even more 

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so on top of that, she holds 
down a full time job and the 

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most important job being a mum. 
So welcome to the show, Serena 

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Broadway. 
Thank you. 

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I think that's the first and 
last time I'm ever going to be 

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mentioned in the same breath as 
Jasmine Paris. 

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And you know what? 
I go up in the Pentlands quite 

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early in the morning, and I know
she does too. 

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Never Sinner, but I think that's
best for Jasmine because I don't

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know if she'd be of Getaway. 
You might have seen her, but 

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just in a shadow. 
Maybe. 

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Right. 
Welcome, Serena. 

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First question that we always 
ask your guests is how did you 

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first get into running? 
I first got into running after 

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having my second child, so up 
until that point I've been quite

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active, doing lots of different 
things with my husband. 

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So before our first child, we'd 
cycle, we'd do lots of hiking 

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and then that tailed off after 
the first child, which was fine.

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And I just did lots of walking 
around town. 

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And then my second child was a 
year old. 

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I was like, I'm getting a bit 
itchy feet. 

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I think I need to do something 
for me, do something that goes 

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from the door. 
So it's easy though, I don't 

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have to make a class time or 
anything like that. 

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And actually did a couch to 5K 
with a social running group. 

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So I didn't want to just go 
straight into it. 

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So that was great because I met 
new people. 

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We always, although I said 
didn't want to meet at a certain

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time. 
It's quite, you know, we did 

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meet on a Wednesday and did like
started to build up and we had 

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runs we had to do during the 
week. 

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And then I did my, my 5K and 
then it all kind of spiralled 

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from there. 
So that's how I started. 

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I just wanted to move. 
I just wanted to do something 

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for me in a bit of time for me. 
And yeah, I found this group of 

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people that started talking 
about races and half marathons 

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and marathons, which I thought 
was absolutely nuts. 

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So it's like, why would you do 
that? 

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Why would you run that far? 
So it really was just a way of 

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kind of getting myself out and 
about. 

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So that's how I started and it 
kind of spiralled a bit. 

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And you mentioned people talking
about races, which is a really 

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nice segue into the next 
question from doing your 5K. 

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What was your first race? 
My first race was the Movember 

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Run, 5K run around Holy Rood, 
which rim because it's 2K up up,

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basically skirting around half 
the seat and then 3K down. 

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So that was my first and 
actually I just looked at my 

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Strava and I I did my eldest did
the the mini mow beforehand and 

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I did it with a friend. 
So yeah, that was my first just 

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5K round half the seat, but it 
was, I think it was doing it 

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with someone and actually with 
both of our kids did the mini 

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one as well. 
Neither of my kids are into 

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running. 
Everyone asks me that like 

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they're they're not into it. 
They're into supporting. 

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I'm the with the cowbell. 
You'll hear them a mile away. 

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They will cheer people on like 
with real kind of ferocity. 

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Sometimes the comments, side 
comments that only children can 

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make. 
I've got a great video of one of

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them clapping in Nishamoni go. 
Why is that man walking? 

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I thought it was a running race,
but at a volume that everybody 

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could hear. 
So, you know, there's the the 

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positive and negative kind of 
cheering. 

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But that's what I kind of liked 
from the races that I was doing 

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it with someone. 
And I think the majority of the 

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races that I've done, either 
I've done it with someone or I 

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start to or I accrue friends. 
I, I don't know how to see that 

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kind of thing is negative. 
I, I've been during the West 

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Highway race, I've run across 
running mirror in the reverse 

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direction and stopped to people 
and they've been walking and 

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said to him, Oh, what, what's 
happening today, like is if I 

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didn't know what was happening 
and they went, oh, there's a 

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running race, so turn around and
say, so why are you walking 

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then? 
And then suddenly they, they run

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again because they feel 
embarrassed about it. 

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It's like I'm, I'm just trying 
to encourage you to get moving. 

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So I I see it as a positive. 
Yeah, and walking's legitimate, 

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by the way. 
I'd just like to say because 

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people, you know, I walk a lot 
because it feels like, how do 

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you run for that long night 
secret? 

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Don't. 
So yeah, it's like you walk up 

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the hills. 
I mean, I'm sorry, anyone that 

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runs up them, probably Mike is 
insane. 

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I just I don't see a logic. 
But if you're feeling 

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embarrassed about walking, which
I'm not saying it is 

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embarrassing, but those people 
obviously were, it shows that 

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they could be running. 
And when I said it to them, it 

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wasn't going uphill, it was 
walking along a flat piece of 

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ground. 
So in their head, they just 

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needed something to push them 
along. 

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I'd often do it like if I'm 
walking and I'm like, come on, 

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Serena, one thing I do, I did a 
race with my friend other Nikki.

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So I did a race with her and she
says this phrase, shall we trot?

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So sometimes if I'm not with 
her, I'll just say that and it 

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just kind of starts me going. 
Or I'll pick a right, you can 

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walk until that tree and then 
you need to to move or walk 

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until the end of the song if 
someone's playing or whatever, 

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and then we'll run. 
So yeah, trying because it is 

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once you start walking, it's 
really difficult to get out of 

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that. 
There was a good one when I was 

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doing spine Sprint that someone 
had been told to run when he hit

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the reservoirs because obviously
they're usually a path that's 

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flat against, you know, 
alongside the reservoirs. 

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So having those things that you 
can pick is like right now I'm 

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going to run. 
I think knowing where there's 

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going to be a photographer is 
like a good you know you have to

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run because you can't be walking
with sweat all over your face 

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when the photographer's coming. 
But why are they uphill? 

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And you can see everyone, 
everyone's shoulders go. 

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I don't have to run now. 
And they're looking past the 

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photographer and then you walk. 
So that as a good segue, as 

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Nikki would say to how did you 
get on to longer distances 

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you're talking about, I can't 
even remember which race you 

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said, you just said it there. 
The spine, yes, that's a one 

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spine challenger. 
One spine challenger. 

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So how? 
How did you get on to that 

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longer distance? 
Yeah, good question. 

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So I was, so I was doing lots. 
I did, I think I've gone up to 

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1/2 marathon with my races. 
So I've done the Scottish half 

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and some other half marathons. 
And then 2020 I was going to do 

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Copenhagen Marathon. 
We were going to go as a family.

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We planned the holiday, got the 
passports because just had to 

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renew them. 
So we were like, why did we get 

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them for Copenhagen? 
And obviously COVID happened and

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didn't do that. 
And then I started to go more in

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the Pentland Hills, which I 
hadn't really done up until that

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point. 
So first of all, going with a 

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couple of friends when we could 
meet up and then going on my 

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own. 
And also my husband Andrew is 

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quite a good motivator for me 
and I probably seize sees what I

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can do before I can, if that 
makes sense. 

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So when we were doing hiking, he
would we do these massive days 

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and I'd just be like really 
angry. 

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I'm thinking, why haven't you 
taken into account that I'm not,

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as you know, fast as you or 
anything like that? 

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But now looking back at it, he 
could see what I could do before

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I could see it. 
So he actually gave me Lizzie 

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Hawker's book runner, and she's 
won UTMB about five times. 

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I think it's a, a beautiful book
about running. 

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So if anyone hasn't read it, I 
really recommend it. 

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And he would say things to me 
like, oh, going into the 

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Pentland Skyline next and I'd 
like right. 

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And then I would do things. 
And so obviously because of 

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COVID, there wasn't a races, but
some of the companies would put 

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on challenges. 
So Rat race did something and I 

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cannot remember the race they 
used to have, but used to have 

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bands. 
Every time you did a 5 kilometre

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loop, you would get a different 
coloured band. 

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So they did it over a weekend. 
So if you accrued these five 

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kilometre increments, you would 
then get, oh, it's called run 

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stock. 
So you would get these bands and

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I was like, oh, I might do that 
over the weekend. 

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And some of the other people in 
the social club I was like, Oh 

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yeah, we should do that. 
And I kind of broken it down. 

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So I think I did like maybe 30 K
like on a Friday and then I went

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and did like a 10K run and then 
and then I think we all met up 

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on Sunday and then I looked at 
the different coloured bands and

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I think like the 80 kilometre 
one or something was like purple

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and it's my favorite colour. 
We all sat down for Sunday lunch

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and I was a little Sunday 
dinner. 

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I was looking down and I was 
like, I'm like 12 kilometres off

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doing like the maximum distance.
And Angela just looked at me and

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goes, you're going to go run 
after this. 

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And I do not recommend running 
after a first dinner, but I did 

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it. 
I was like, oh, this is grim. 

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And I, I think it was then and I
did things like when I was 

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supposed to do the Copenhagen 
Marathon, I did the seven hills 

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of Edinburgh just as a solo run.
So I went for my door and did 

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the seven hills and it just 
started to kind of like, you 

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know, or maybe I can do a little
bit further. 

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You know, if you do 80K over 3-4
days, like can you condense that

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and do that, you know, over as 
a, you know, one entire period. 

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And then in 2021 I did Ultra X 
Scotland, which might have been 

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the first time they did that, I 
think. 

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And it was still kind of COVID. 
So you had like 32nd increments 

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and stuff like that. 
And it just showed me a 

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different kind of race. 
So when I start it, when at the 

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start I was like, I felt I just 
can't explain. 

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Like, I still get nervous, but I
can't explain. 

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Like, so, you know, people 
looked like they knew what they 

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were doing. 
This is the first time I've done

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it. 
Can I do this? 

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And then I saw another woman who
looked exactly the same, looked 

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like I could just see in her 
face. 

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And I just kind of went up to 
her and goes, this is a bit 

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crazy. 
It's a bit nuts, isn't it? 

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And we just had this exchange of
like, this is I don't know why 

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I'm, why am I here now? 
And we'd kind of gone off and I 

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think I saw her at the end and 
we kind of had a hug and all 

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well done. 
And then she'd found me on 

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Facebook because I was doing 
that to raise money for my 

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friend's charity. 
And she donated to that and then

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sent me a message on Facebook 
and said, oh, if you're ever 

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back in Scotland because of my 
accent, she was like, be great 

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to run with you. 
And I was like, oh, well, bad 

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luck for you because I actually 
do live in Scotland. 

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And it just, and it just started
that kind of like that trail 

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running is a little bit 
different for me that you do 

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like have maybe more exchanges 
because you know, I did talk to 

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quite a few people in that race.
And then in the same year I did 

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Ultra X Summer series in 
Yorkshire. 

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So 2 relatively local races and 
then got the points I needed to 

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put in for OCC, which is a 
completely different system to 

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now. 
It was much more accessible. 

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I didn't have to go and do their
mandated races. 

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I could do ones that worked for 
me and my family. 

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And I got in. 
I was like, oh crikey. 

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And that's kind of how it 
started. 

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And then to get into, you know, 
I'd always we'd followed Spine 

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Winter for quite a while and I 
love that. 

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And everyone keeps saying, Oh, 
you're going to do it. 

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And I'm like, no, I'm not 
because it's like Christmas then

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spineless. 
That's how it goes in our 

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family. 
Like literally like, oh, 

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Christmas, new year, Hogmanay, 
right. 

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00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,720
We wait now for the nutters to 
be going 268 miles up the 

222
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,600
Pennine way. 
There's, you know, be watch the 

223
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,760
daily updates together. 
I'm I'm there tracking the dots.

224
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,520
And as I've got more into the 
community, I know more people 

225
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,000
behind those dots, which is 
lovely as well. 

226
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:43,720
And black trail runners actually
had places for the different 

227
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,080
distances and I thought, I'll 
just do the Sprint, just. 

228
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:48,920
Only. 
Only it's. 

229
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,040
Just a Sprint. 
That was like literally my 

230
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:53,520
training. 
I was like, it's just a Sprint. 

231
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,920
It's just a Sprint, but it's 46 
miles. 

232
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,920
But in my mind, to reduce it, I 
was like, it's just a Sprint. 

233
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,560
But then people will be saying 
things like, oh, when you get to

234
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:05,600
the first checkpoint and then 
you'd have to say to them, but 

235
00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,480
you don't understand, I am 
running to the first checkpoint.

236
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:14,000
I have to have everything to get
me to that first checkpoint. 

237
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,160
So, yeah, but when I got there, 
like they talk about the spine 

238
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,960
bubble and they talk about the 
spine family and it's true. 

239
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,080
It it really is like you can't 
you come in there like the kit 

240
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,800
check. 
Everyone is really nervous that 

241
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,800
things won't get through and 
things like that. 

242
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,600
But I had conversations with 
people. 

243
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,280
I stayed at the youth hostel 
recommend if you're going to 

244
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,240
start from Edale to go into the 
youth hostel and just had 

245
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:49,040
exchanges with people like, and 
now they're my friends. 

246
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,440
And then I went back the next 
year and they were like, I 

247
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,120
thought you said you're only 
going to do the Sprint. 

248
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,920
I know, I know I did. 
And then I got to like 

249
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,840
checkpoints and there were 
people that I'd run with the 

250
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,680
year before and they were, 
you're doing so well. 

251
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:07,000
So yeah, I think it's that kind 
of a sense of adventure because 

252
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,080
I I, I don't have time to recce 
roots. 

253
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,440
I do a lot of sitting and 
watching YouTube videos, which 

254
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,880
is just inspiring kids coming. 
What are you doing? 

255
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,280
Why are you watching someone 
walk? 

256
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,840
And it's like, because I need to
understand like where you go 

257
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,480
next. 
So it's really that what's 

258
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,720
coming up, that sense of 
adventure. 

259
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:33,440
And also then these amazing 
people, I meet their stories as 

260
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,240
well. 
So that's kind of how I ended up

261
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,600
on this crazy journey of ultra 
distance running. 

262
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,800
I've never heard of it referred 
to as spineless before, but I 

263
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,240
totally understand what it 
means. 

264
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,840
And yeah, I agree. 
That going forward. 

265
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,320
Oh, you have to spineless you 
like, here we go. 

266
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,400
And it's so true when you say 
that you start to get into the 

267
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,920
spine family. 
I went to the finish line at the

268
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,640
start of the year just to I had 
the day off and I had this major

269
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,480
pool to go and see it and like, 
I really, really want to go. 

270
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,760
And down I went. 
And it was brilliant just to 

271
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:16,000
even have an hour. 
And it was so cool just to see 

272
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,960
it in the flesh and see the 
hotel. 

273
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,440
And I think, yeah, that's not 
going to be the last time I'm 

274
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,600
going to see that, even if I see
friends finishing or one day do 

275
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:25,720
it myself. 
But who knows? 

276
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,720
But even when I was doing 
Challenger S, like we had a bit 

277
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,800
of an incident and this the 
safety team had to come out and 

278
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,440
take someone I was running with 
away and they were like, don't 

279
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:37,920
worry, you're going to get you 
warmed up. 

280
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,320
We're going to get you back out 
there. 

281
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,640
Oh, OK. 
Because I'd in my head like this

282
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:42,840
is ADNF. 
That's fine. 

283
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,680
I'm happy. 
I want that person to be safe. 

284
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,400
And they were like, Nope, we'll 
get you warmed up and and you'll

285
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,640
be on your way. 
And at the end, like checking 

286
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,560
all your messages, the safety 
team, like someone from the 

287
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,480
safety team messaged me and 
said, been following your dot. 

288
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,760
I really wanted you to make it. 
And you, you know, so even even 

289
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,760
though they're in it and doing 
all their safety stuff, they're 

290
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,280
still wanting you to, to finish 
and, and yeah, it is something 

291
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,880
special. 
The way you said it there, we 

292
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,040
had an incident and they had to 
be taken away. 

293
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,119
It was like, where did they get 
taken away to? 

294
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,440
Oh. 
No, OK. 

295
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,280
So I was with a group. 
We ended up being a group of 

296
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:30,520
four going from Malantan. 
So, and we had made the decision

297
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:37,280
to go like it was not that that 
summer race, everyone kept 

298
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,120
telling us how awful the weather
was and how much better winter 

299
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,360
was, which is just great when 
you're in it. 

300
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,720
And one of the party had got 
cold on Fountains Fell. 

301
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,400
So we had to push forward, come 
off Fountains Fell and she just 

302
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,920
was very, very cold. 
So he wraps her up and you know,

303
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,680
the ethos of spine makes people 
like you want everyone to 

304
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,840
succeed and you want to make 
sure everyone's safe. 

305
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,960
That's not the case with other 
races that I've done because 

306
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,960
people have paid a lot of money 
to do their race. 

307
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,400
I don't necessarily think they 
would stop to help. 

308
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,840
So we wrapped her up, got her, 
kept her warm, pressed her kind 

309
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:25,160
of SOS and the, the safety team 
came and got her all warmed up 

310
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:28,000
and she was at the end. 
She's actually saw us finish and

311
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,600
she was fine. 
So just for just the that's the 

312
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:36,960
that's the story of that. 
But it yeah, it was just wanted 

313
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,040
to make sure that she was safe 
and well. 

314
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,120
And I and I was like, if this is
a DNF, this is a DNF and I don't

315
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:44,920
care because I want that person 
to be OK. 

316
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,680
So you've took us through quite 
your running resume and thank 

317
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,720
you for sharing that because it 
was brilliant. 

318
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,960
But let's bring it up to current
day 2025. 

319
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,680
You've had quite the year, 
haven't you? 

320
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:05,160
Yeah, not the planned year that 
I thought I would have. 

321
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:12,680
So last year I did Dale's 
Divide, which Dales Traverse, 

322
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,680
sorry, Dales Traverse, Dales 
Dividers bike race, and then my 

323
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,280
husband will find that funny. 
He's done that a couple of 

324
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,000
times. 
So did Dales Traverse, which is 

325
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,960
part of Northern Traverse. 
So Northern Traverse is split up

326
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,960
into the Lakes, the Dales and 
then the Yorkshire Moors. 

327
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,840
And I, I did, if anyone followed
Northern Traverse last year, it 

328
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,280
was in a named storm. 
There were some pretty Hardy 

329
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,720
people going out in the lakes in
a named storm. 

330
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,160
They had to divert the route 
because of it. 

331
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:47,920
Me and Nicky had an interesting 
time in the Dales Traverse, but 

332
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,760
it was also, it was, you know, 
doing it with Nicky, you know, 

333
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,480
was great fun. 
It wasn't like the the race when

334
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,800
you're taking photo. 
It was head down. 

335
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,680
Let's get this done. 
Everyone probably remembers last

336
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,320
winter, which was just wet, like
the paths were rivers. 

337
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,360
Everything was sodden, the bogs.
We're very boggy. 

338
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,400
It was, and it's in April, so 
you can get glorious weather or 

339
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,760
you can get what we got hail, 
you know, horizontal hail. 

340
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:21,600
It was, yeah, it was quite hard.
And then I think Nikki turned 

341
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,520
around in the car, said never 
doing that again. 

342
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:29,560
And I was like, and then I have 
this group of people that we've 

343
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,880
done like races together. 
We do like kind of relays 

344
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,240
together. 
And I just said and I, I waited.

345
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,480
So then obviously quite soon 
after those races finished, it 

346
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:47,240
opens up spots for next year. 
And I sat there and I, I think I

347
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:48,360
want to enter, but then I 
didn't. 

348
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:50,960
And it was like full, I was 
like, oh, well, there you go. 

349
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,440
I'll put my name on the waiting 
list, but I won't get it a week 

350
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,720
later or even maybe a few days 
later. 

351
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,560
I just get this message being 
like your spot's open if you 

352
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:02,960
want to go and do Northern 
Traverse. 

353
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,040
And I messaged this group and 
said, what do you think? 

354
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:09,680
And they went way through 
messaging this group. 

355
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,320
We all know that you want to do 
it. 

356
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,520
So Northern Traverse, I probably
should say, is 300 kilometres 

357
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,400
from Saint Bees in the Lake 
District to Robin Hood's Bay in 

358
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,000
Yorkshire. 
So it's basically coast to 

359
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,680
coast. 
I don't know why I thought I 

360
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:29,080
could do with it. 
And after that experience, you 

361
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,840
would think why would you enter 
that race? 

362
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,120
But yeah, so I, I, I did, I 
entered that race again. 

363
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:43,200
I didn't, I didn't recce it. 
I'm very lucky to know some 

364
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,240
pretty awesome people that have 
done it or have done parts of 

365
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,520
the race. 
And people are super generous. 

366
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,800
I would say if anyone's thinking
about doing those races, like 

367
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,600
obviously I'm open, I often get 
messages, I'm happy to share 

368
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,120
what what it's like, especially 
from mid pack to the end, 

369
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:03,600
because that's a different 
experience from those guys that 

370
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,720
are doing it in 48 hours or 50 
odd hours. 

371
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,400
And I'm lucky that I have people
that were wrecking the route. 

372
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,360
So Victoria, who I ran, ended up
running the race was not 

373
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:17,560
planned, but I ended up running 
the race with she was doing 

374
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,280
loads of wreckies and so she 
would let me know how the ground

375
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,680
was going. 
Anything to watch out for in the

376
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,120
sections. 
Turns out I didn't each didn't 

377
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:27,320
need to because they ended up 
running the whole thing with 

378
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,360
her. 
But there's, you know, Facebook 

379
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:35,760
groups, if you see even like the
elites, if you message them, 

380
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,120
they will tell you stuff. 
So I would say that to people, 

381
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,920
if you're thinking about doing a
race and you just want and you 

382
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,120
know someone that's done it, ask
the question. 

383
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,520
The worst is they don't respond,
but usually people respond. 

384
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,080
And I have one friend who says, 
oh, you need to listen to this 

385
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,880
podcast and this podcast. 
So there were things like 

386
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,640
reading, listening to podcasts, 
reading people's race reviews 

387
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,800
and race reports and doing all 
that kind of stuff. 

388
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,160
And then yes, I was at the start
in Saint B's and thought, oh, 

389
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:12,040
this is a long way and ran with 
Victoria, which was amazing. 

390
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,400
We didn't expect to. 
And I think there was 

391
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,560
camaraderie, but compromise and 
that. 

392
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,200
So down on the downhills, she 
was so much faster. 

393
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,200
On the uphills, I was faster. 
I think she would have been much

394
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,400
quicker in the checkpoints. 
The problem is, and if you 

395
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,880
haven't guessed us already, I 
like to chat and I like people. 

396
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,720
So it's checkpoints. 
I'm like, oh, who are you? 

397
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,000
Why are you doing this? 
And oh, and you're like focus, 

398
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,880
focus. 
You need to like eat your food, 

399
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,040
go for a sleep and then get out.
And I'm like, Nah, so 

400
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,800
unfortunately I will, you know, 
you'll see my times 5 hours at 

401
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,680
the checkpoints and she said two
hours sleep. 

402
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:49,240
What is she doing? 
And it, it was an like amazing 

403
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,040
race. 
Every stage is completely 

404
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,280
different. 
Like the lakes you expect to be 

405
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,000
absolutely stunning, which they 
were. 

406
00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:00,160
We had the best weather. 
It was glorious sunshine, clear 

407
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,320
skies, which meant clear skies 
at night, really cold because it

408
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,040
was April. 
So having to deal with that and 

409
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,480
making sure that as soon as it 
got soon as the kind of sun went

410
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,560
down, you're putting on your 
layers and making sure you were 

411
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,120
keeping warm was really 
important. 

412
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:18,440
But we got the most amazing 
stars. 

413
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,360
We got owls every night when 
we're in the Lake District. 

414
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:26,400
There was just this trail of 
head torches going up and then I

415
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,680
was chatting away, sorry. 
And then I get Serena, is that 

416
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,560
you? 
And in the dark, it was like a 

417
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,240
photographer of the spine who 
was doing the race. 

418
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,240
So he was like, had a hug. 
You could do it because he was 

419
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,960
doing the lakes. 
And then and then and then when 

420
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,080
you get to checkpoints, then 
you're checking on people to 

421
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,880
make sure that they're OK and 
that they get to wear that, you 

422
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,520
know, their finish lines as 
well. 

423
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,520
So I would say it was really 
tough to watch Victoria. 

424
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,080
I mean, she was amazing. 
Like she had injuries. 

425
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,520
She had thrush in her mouth. 
So at the end to swallow gels 

426
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,560
was so painful. 
It was so tough to watch but or 

427
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,280
inspiring as well, that she just
kept going. 

428
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:17,160
Yeah, it was. 
And I saw, yeah, I saw people 

429
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,120
that I'd seen in other races 
kind of come past me. 

430
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:24,000
Then we go past each other. 
Every section is completely 

431
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,360
different. 
People keep asking me which 

432
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,040
section would you do? 
And I'm like, I don't know. 

433
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:34,520
It depends what you want. 
And it's just, yeah, it's just a

434
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,800
very interesting race. 
And then when you finish, 

435
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,160
because I finished at like 4-5 
in the morning, I think. 

436
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,840
And obviously, like you're in 
Robin Hood space. 

437
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:51,240
They're like, you know, and I 
think that was the only thing I 

438
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,560
learned from that was like, 
because I have been away from my

439
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,680
family for quite some time, I 
just wanted to get home. 

440
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,240
Yeah, when I was just like, I 
was like, oh, I can stay 

441
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,000
overnight. 
I had a hotel booked and then I 

442
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,000
will come home. 
And I was just like, no, I am 

443
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,200
going to have a quick nap and I 
am going to have the most hard 

444
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,960
string journey where everyone 
was looking at me like, why is 

445
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,640
she a zombie? 
And my feet were hurting, but I 

446
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,800
just wanted to get home. 
But that race and the experience

447
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:26,440
and the people I've met like 
it's yeah, I, I really just, I 

448
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,200
did love that race. 
I, I'm not saying that I 

449
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:34,240
wouldn't go back and do it 
because I think probably do it 

450
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,400
quicker, but I don't care. 
But I probably could have a 

451
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,600
different experience. 
I'm never really bothered about 

452
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,440
time, but I probably learnt like
every race you learn something 

453
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,200
about going to checkpoints or 
whatever it is main, you know, 

454
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:54,200
looking after yourself and and 
how how to move and and all this

455
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,280
kind of stuff. 
You you learn every time there's

456
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,960
something you take away from 
each race. 

457
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,440
But yeah, there were and the 
volunteers are amazing. 

458
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,480
I had some crack. 
I mean, I came in Gladesdale 

459
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,920
with the like a probably a 
blister like that and you could 

460
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:15,520
see the medics eyes go, but you 
know, they just want you to help

461
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:20,440
you get through to the finish. 
So it was such an amazing 

462
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,200
experience and that was the 
race. 

463
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,080
You know, it was a lot of money.
I'm not going to lie. 

464
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,040
Like that's the thing as well. 
It's a lot of money. 

465
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,200
And I was like, I would like to 
do these kind of, you know, see 

466
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,160
people go off and they do like 
the West Island way or they go 

467
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,920
and do coast to coast on their 
own. 

468
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,800
Problem is, like I've always got
pools from the family and 

469
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,400
everything. 
So if unless I have the race 

470
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,640
booked, you know, I was going to
do that race, whether it was 

471
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,760
glorious sunshine, which I had 
or horrific weather. 

472
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,480
And it just made logistics 
easier. 

473
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:54,800
Like, you know, pack my my drop 
bag, which goes to every 

474
00:27:54,800 --> 00:28:01,640
checkpoint and I know that I'm 
going to go there on that date 

475
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,520
and I know that they'll be the 
infrastructure I need rather 

476
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,320
than having to think about the B
and BS I'm going to book. 

477
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,680
How long is it going to take if 
I'm like, you know, if I'm slow 

478
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,720
on this leg, just don't have the
mental capacity for that in my 

479
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,240
life at the moment. 
So I want these adventures of 

480
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,760
long distance the easiest way I 
can do them, which obviously 

481
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,720
puts time pressure on it because
the race has the cut off times 

482
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,920
and they need people to finish 
by a certain time. 

483
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,000
But for me, my point in my life,
that makes these things 

484
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,760
possible. 
I think it's good as well that 

485
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,000
you highlight that because aside
from the running, and I think a 

486
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,080
lot of us do seem to forget that
there's life outside of running 

487
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,720
and you, it is so important to 
have that support network. 

488
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,120
Your husband does sound amazing,
you know, and you said to 

489
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,720
yourself, he cycles. 
I know he's done some big events

490
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,600
himself. 
So it's great to have that tag 

491
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:01,680
team between you for the 
childcare and life in general. 

492
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,600
But what I was going to ask off 
at the back of that, just to 

493
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,800
clarify, you went from the 
smallest event to the biggest 1,

494
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,920
is that right? 
And the traverse. 

495
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,960
Series. 
Yes, it did. 

496
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,280
For my guest, Johnny Kilpatrick,
he came to Upton that we 

497
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,880
interviewed him just after that.
So that's the one you've not 

498
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,520
done the Lakes? 
Yeah, the middle one. 

499
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,480
So I've done so I've they all 
tag in together. 

500
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,520
So I've done the full amount. 
I haven't done them as single 

501
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,800
ones. 
So, yeah, we did the Dales one 

502
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,640
because in our heads it's 50K. 
But the thing to remember is 

503
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:46,840
it's 50K but 37 K until the 
checkpoint. 

504
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,280
But in my mind now warped by the
spine, which is is not good 

505
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,880
because Nikki was like, oh, this
is quite hard. 

506
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,080
I was like, yeah, but this is 
quite good because I can wear my

507
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,760
you know, I was running my 
wearing my running vest rather 

508
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,160
than wearing running a, a 
backpack. 

509
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,480
And I was like O37K to the next 
checkpoint. 

510
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,320
That's fine because, you know, 
I'm used to spine. 

511
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,560
What? 
It's 4646 miles. 

512
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,400
But that's something to bear in 
mind for people that are wanting

513
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,720
to do this. 
I think the lakes probably has 

514
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:20,480
more checkpoints or places you 
can stop to get stuff than say 

515
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,360
the Dales and the Dales when we 
did it. 

516
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,040
So the coast to coast is now 
becoming a national path. 

517
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,480
So they're doing a lot of work 
on it when we did it, and it was

518
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,320
much wetter when me and Nikki 
did it compared to this year. 

519
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,240
The first year we did it, we 
were going up to like probably 

520
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,280
our calves, if not a bit higher 
in bogs. 

521
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,640
They're now flag stoning all 
that. 

522
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,240
And I was saying to Nikki, 
there's boardwalks over the box.

523
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,680
And it was so much easier. 
And I think give it a couple of 

524
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,240
years when all that work is done
and the the record that Damian 

525
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,000
Hall set, it's going to be 
smashed because it's a 

526
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,000
completely different route, 
which is something to bear in 

527
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,320
mind when you do these ultras. 
Like people go, would you go 

528
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,320
back? 
And I was like, but the time we 

529
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,960
don't, you know, only sets those
circumstances. 

530
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,720
So when it's completely boggy 
and wet, you're never going to 

531
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,280
be as quick as when it's bone 
dry and now has flagstones and 

532
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,560
boardwalks. 
It's completely different race. 

533
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,120
And you've done the original 
course now as well, so. 

534
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,480
Yeah. 
So, and then, yeah, CCC was not 

535
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,000
planned. 
I put into the ballot in January

536
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,080
and it's like never get in. 
I never get in of of only. 

537
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,800
I think I had two or three 
stones from me, so I was like 

538
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,800
won't get in. 
And then the things thing is you

539
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,360
put in in December and then you 
find out in January. 

540
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,440
So it's super quick. 
It's not like London Marathon 

541
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:52,080
who like to keep tangling until 
you know it's it's really quick.

542
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,520
And I knew a lot of other black 
trail runners had put their 

543
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,320
names into the hat. 
And I saw the e-mail and I was 

544
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,080
like, oh, UTNBCCC. 
And I was like waiting for it to

545
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,400
say, oh, unfortunately. 
And I was like, congratulate. 

546
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,560
Oh no, open this phone. 
Sabrina swimmed down the phone. 

547
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:16,360
But it also meant I'd already 
booked 7 Valleys, which I'm 

548
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,280
doing in three weeks time 
because I'm doing it with 

549
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:25,200
someone I met in Spine and we've
got plans for next year, he 

550
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,520
said, but we've got no plans for
2025. 

551
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,640
So that's, and he is like, 
let's, I always said, well, 

552
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,280
let's do something in the lakes.
And he was like, let's do 

553
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,120
something in September. 
And so we're like, let's book 7 

554
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,000
valleys. 
I was like, fine, because I'm 

555
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,080
not going to get into CC, 
that'll be fine. 

556
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,720
And then actually when I got 
into CCC, my message to him was 

557
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,680
like, I just don't think I can 
do this. 

558
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,480
I think unfortunately I'm going 
to have to pull out of seven 

559
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:48,920
valleys. 
You know when you make a 

560
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,920
decision and it just as soon as 
you say something, you're like, 

561
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,800
this doesn't feel right. 
So I messaged him back and I was

562
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,760
like, OK, I, I don't feel happy 
with this. 

563
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,000
We've, this is what we've 
planned. 

564
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:07,880
So I will see how my legs are 
after CCCI will be even slower 

565
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:14,400
than I usually AM. 
And you can find me every time I

566
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:21,040
say CCC or Shamany the UTMB, 
he's picked Jelly babies, which 

567
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,080
by the way, I don't think I can 
carry kilos of Jelly babies. 

568
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,400
So I'm going to have to own him,
owe him in arrears. 

569
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,720
And then I just worried about 
how many Jelly babies and and 

570
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,440
his probably nutrition taken 
intake after that. 

571
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,760
So yeah, that's how this year 
has come about. 

572
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,960
You you've mentioned 3 enablers.
I'm not going to say an enabler 

573
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:50,200
in a a bad way. 
I've I think it's for the, it's 

574
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,760
a good thing for you because 
it's making you go out and do 

575
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,840
the races. 
There was Nikki, Victoria and 

576
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,040
somebody in the Seven Valleys. 
Do you want to give them a 

577
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,200
shout? 
Out Carl, yeah, so Carl, yeah, 

578
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,160
we met doing I don't this is the
Rick race thing. 

579
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:11,880
So we had that experience in on 
challenge us out and I was like 

580
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,679
that was an experience and we 
sat down together at the end of 

581
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:22,280
that and had a chat. 
He had rolled his ankle at mile 

582
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,760
16 by the way, and it was huge. 
When he took his shoe off, I 

583
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,040
just did like a double take and 
I was like you need to get a 

584
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,239
medic to see that it was, 
nothing was broken, it was just 

585
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,800
badly sprained. 
But he had managed to run over 

586
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:40,600
100 miles with that. 
So we were the week after that, 

587
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,239
we were kind of exchanging 
messages. 

588
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,639
I was writing things and saying 
this is this is how you remember

589
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:48,679
it kind of thing. 
And so, yeah, we kind of had 

590
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:50,440
that experience. 
We're just chatting a lot. 

591
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,560
And then he sent me a message on
the Saturday afterwards. 

592
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,160
So I think we finished on the 
Mondays, Saturday afterwards. 

593
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:00,040
So it's been a nice day here. 
We've had sat in the garden, had

594
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:07,120
a bottle of wine and I've said 
he said to his wife that I think

595
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,080
I want to do the North 
Challenger North in 2026 and the

596
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,280
full spine in 2027. 
I'd love to do it with you. 

597
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,760
And I was like, you mad person. 
Did you not remember the 

598
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,280
experience we've just had? 
But I was like, yeah, sure, sure

599
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,400
game for it. 
So we just, you know, I'm just 

600
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:30,120
lucky to and I I think my first 
neighbor actually is Andrew, you

601
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,120
know, but I'm just lucky to have
these people. 

602
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,640
I have a lot of them, if I'm 
honest, a lot of people that 

603
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:42,080
I've never met in real life but 
have messaged me on Instagram 

604
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,200
or, you know, I have 
conversations with who are just 

605
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:51,200
so supportive. 
And but Andrew is the first one 

606
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,480
because it's like, yeah, you go 
do that thing. 

607
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,160
Go, you know, you know, and I 
always really makes me annoyed 

608
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,840
when they're like, oh, you're, I
get this a lot. 

609
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,240
You're so lucky to have a 
husband that does this for you. 

610
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:05,440
It's like, well, first of all, 
we both have children, you know,

611
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,120
I'm not the only parent. 
And the other thing is as well 

612
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,480
as Nikki said, he does his crazy
bike stuff, right? 

613
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,480
So like he did Highland Trail 
this year. 

614
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,280
So that was 550 miles around the
Highlands. 

615
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,120
Some points carrying his bike, 
which I never understand. 

616
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:26,080
Like you've got the whole point 
is the bike makes it easier. 

617
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,400
Why would you carry? 
So we just want to show our 

618
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,520
girls that it, it doesn't matter
what it is, but if you really 

619
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,960
want to do something and you 
find that thing that makes you 

620
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,400
happy or pushes you a bit beyond
what you thought was possible, 

621
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:49,160
to really give that the time it 
needs, which isn't easy. 

622
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:53,240
It's early mornings, you feel 
tired, you feel rubbish. 

623
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,200
Sometimes you don't want to go 
for that run and sometimes you 

624
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,880
don't. 
But yeah, I just and I am very, 

625
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,040
very lucky to have all these 
people like Lee, who is Lee 

626
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:07,840
Helen? 
I have a lot of people that I'm 

627
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:12,000
like, oh, I'm going for a run. 
Penton's want to come and 

628
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,920
they're like, yeah, sure. 
And I'm like, what time do you 

629
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,080
want to go? 
And I'm like 6 and they're like,

630
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,080
sure. 
And you're like, how do I have 

631
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,400
these people in my life that are
just don't bat an eyelid and 

632
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,360
just go, yeah, sure. 6 O clock. 
And what what distance do you 

633
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,360
want to do? 
What elevation and they'll, you 

634
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,760
know, turn up or and think about
doing this race. 

635
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,520
Do you want to do it with me? 
Sure. 

636
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,480
And you're like, how how do I 
have these people? 

637
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,480
And then, yeah, all these people
that I'm still yet to meet. 

638
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,120
It was great to meet Nikki in 
real life only for a short 

639
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,400
amount of time. 
We'll have a proper run together

640
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,440
at some point. 
But it's, you know, having those

641
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:56,720
exchanges is is amazing. 
And you do, you do forget what I

642
00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:00,960
do is quite silly. 
And then the girls will say 

643
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,960
something to someone and they'll
be like, oh, have you been out 

644
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,080
for. 
I'm constantly wearing running 

645
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,760
gear, whether I've gone for a 
run, whether I'm going for a 

646
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,640
run, but it's comfortable. 
That's what I like about going 

647
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,120
to Chamonix. 
Everyone's in running gear and 

648
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,600
they don't ask you if you've 
been for a run or if you're 

649
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:16,840
going for a run because it's 
just normal. 

650
00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:21,760
And then they'll and they'll say
something glibly like, oh, have 

651
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:22,640
you done a race? 
And. 

652
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,800
And one of us go, yeah, I mean, 
she ran like 100 kilometers and 

653
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,520
they'll be like, you're 10. 
And then I don't know. 

654
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:34,520
No, they're like, yeah, it is a 
bit weird. 

655
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,120
I think the worst one time I 
realized it was a bit weird was 

656
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,720
when one of the girls was at 
gymnastic competition in running

657
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:43,600
gear, and I was ready to go. 
It was a glorious day. 

658
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,400
And I was like, why am I sat in 
sports hall? 

659
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,840
Like, you do your thing and then
I'm going for a fun. 

660
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,240
And when I was going, oh, going 
for a run. 

661
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:50,680
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

662
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:51,680
How far? 
How far? 

663
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,760
And I went 03 to four hours 
anyway. 

664
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,920
It's just like, Oh yeah, it's 
not normal. 

665
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:01,680
But it is easy to forget, as you
say, because as we said there 

666
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:07,720
earlier on Spain Sprint, it's 
only 46 miles and it, it is 

667
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:11,400
normalizing it like amongst the 
runners, like what we do do is 

668
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,360
nuts. 
But then when you say it to a 

669
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,440
normal person, they do look at 
you. 

670
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:20,240
It's easy for us to forget. 
It's more or less 2 marathons 

671
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:22,160
just shy of do you know what I 
mean? 

672
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,200
It's it's crazy. 
But then I always think I could 

673
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,920
never run a marathon. 
So people come to me and like, 

674
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,000
oh God, you know, I was like, I 
haven't run a marathon. 

675
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,000
I haven't run a road marathon. 
I don't think I could do it 

676
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,880
because heard. 
That disgusting. 

677
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,960
To be honest, I do park runs. 
I'm like, why would anyone run 5

678
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,400
kilometres? 
This is disgusting. 

679
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:49,000
But yeah, I just don't think I 
could do it because I did the 10

680
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,080
women's 10 KA couple of years 
ago in Edinburgh and we were 

681
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,440
running like I think it was the 
Royal Mile or something. 

682
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,760
And it was just this beautiful 
like view of Edinburgh. 

683
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,680
And I was like, got my camera 
out because I'm used to like 

684
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,760
walking with the poles or 
whatever. 

685
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,280
Oh, look at that stunning 
sunrise. 

686
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,080
I'll take a picture. 
And then everyone was just 

687
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,440
pelting past me. 
It's like, not this kind of 

688
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,000
race. 
I need to keep going so. 

689
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,480
Yeah. 
Oh, yes, yeah. 

690
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,280
I think you've answered the 
question is going to ask 

691
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,240
Copenhagen Marathon. 
You've not been back. 

692
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,560
I would love to go to 
Copenhagen. 

693
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,520
I don't think I have a marathon 
in me. 

694
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,880
I'd, I'd, I'd I just. 
Yeah. 

695
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,200
I would say do one just for 
well. 

696
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,040
For suffering. 
Yeah, entirely. 

697
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:39,240
I was told by another coach they
feel it's really good to have a 

698
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:43,240
marathon block, a road marathon 
block under your belt just for 

699
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:45,800
that discipline, speeds, all 
that. 

700
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:49,240
But I'm with you, Serena. 
I've got, I would love to do 

701
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,840
Loch Ness one day, but I think 
because, but I'm probably 

702
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,120
Dublin, those are the only two 
that I think I would maybe try 

703
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:58,640
and do it. 
But I'm like, you are like 

704
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,400
seeing stuff and oh look, 
there's a squirrel. 

705
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,720
I'll take a picture of it. 
I don't think it'd be fun as 

706
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:09,240
well. 
I can't imagine, like, coming 

707
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:11,720
off like runs where you have to 
hit paces. 

708
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:14,760
And I think I like, because I 
have asked before, I'm like, if 

709
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,240
I did a marathon, would I have 
to do it all on road? 

710
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:19,840
And they were like, yeah. 
Yeah, I. 

711
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:26,360
Mean on the canal as well like 
so I'm I'm very lucky where I'm 

712
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,480
situated. 
I have like the canal not that 

713
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:30,120
far. 
So I do do like interval 

714
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,920
sessions and Sprint sessions and
then I have the Pentlands like 

715
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,880
maximum probably about 5K for my
house. 

716
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,720
You're so lucky. 
I, I know I am so, so lucky 

717
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:44,520
because otherwise you usually 
have the hills or the flats, you

718
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,000
don't usually have both. 
But the thing that gets me, you 

719
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,440
can tell when it's coming up to 
Edinburgh Marathon Festival 

720
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,680
because I'm like blooming gels 
everywhere. 

721
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:55,520
I'm actually picking up the gel 
packets and I'm like, I have to 

722
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,360
think to myself, these people 
didn't mean to do this. 

723
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,600
So I'm like picking them up and 
I'm like, yeah, I know. 

724
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,640
But like the third or fourth 
one, you're like, come on. 

725
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,600
And you can tell because they, 
I'm quite probably, I don't 

726
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,480
know, 810K from the beginning of
the canal. 

727
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,640
So you can tell when people are 
starting to get to their bigger,

728
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,480
bigger distances because the 
gels become more. 

729
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,800
So I, I just don't think I've 
got it in me. 

730
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,520
I mean, I'd even like London 
Marathon and everyone says the 

731
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,040
atmosphere is amazing. 
But what you said about being in

732
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,160
those pens, I think I'd just 
find it not fun. 

733
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,720
And that's why I do it. 
At the end of the day, we do it 

734
00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:34,960
for fun. 
That's what I have to remind 

735
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,800
myself. 
And people are like, oh, did you

736
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:37,440
get this time? 
Did you? 

737
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:39,960
I do it for fun. 
This is, I'm not an elite 

738
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,000
athlete. 
I'm not an elite athlete. 

739
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:46,560
And you know, when we're waiting
at the when you do CCC, there's 

740
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,440
a big climb at Cormier and we 
just stopped because there's so 

741
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,120
many people and one of the 
people pushing past like their 

742
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,440
position was more important than
ours. 

743
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,120
And they go to stand around and 
the podium's gone. 

744
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,360
People you don't need to go 
past. 

745
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,000
And it's, I mean, I'm lucky 
enough to know people that do 

746
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,480
podium, but it's like, that's 
not me. 

747
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:11,840
I do this for fun. 
You you said that people drop in

748
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,080
gel wrappers everywhere for 
marathon. 

749
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,280
I'm sure it happens everywhere, 
which is not a good thing. 

750
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,960
But what do you fuel with? 
If they're fueling the gels, are

751
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,000
you fueling the gels? 
Real food? 

752
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:26,840
What you fueling with? 
A mix. 

753
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:32,320
It's a it's a mix. 
I love my wine gums and Haribo 

754
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,840
Twin Snakes, which was one of 
the ambassadors from Salomon put

755
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,040
Rach put me on to those and now 
I have them. 

756
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,640
I think of her. 
So it's quite nice because I 

757
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:44,600
think like when I have those. 
So I have have those sweets, I 

758
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:53,480
have gels, I have kind of crisps
bars and then I'm I don't want 

759
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,920
to need to touch wood, but 
there's nothing around me. 

760
00:43:56,240 --> 00:44:01,080
But I'm quite lucky that I can 
eat and run quite relatively 

761
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:06,880
quickly afterwards. 
So race is like Northern 

762
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,920
Traverse. 
I was eating things like 

763
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:16,920
macaroni cheese, chilli, Curry, 
scrambled eggs, hash Browns. 

764
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,560
Coke obviously is a really good 
one when you're doing these 

765
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,600
races. 
So a lot of like when I get to 

766
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:32,160
checkpoints, normal food and I, 
I am lucky that I can then go 

767
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:39,680
and walk, run afterwards. 
In Chamonix, it was the broth 

768
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,400
with the noodles or the broth 
with the the rice in it, 

769
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:53,080
watermelon, salami, cheese, 
bread, coke, which is really 

770
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:57,120
good just to get that in. 
And then gels, especially 

771
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:03,800
towards the end of CCC, it was, 
it was a lot of gel didn't have 

772
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,560
time. 
I did not have time to be like, 

773
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:13,480
yeah, faffing around too much. 
So yeah, a mix and I and it 

774
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,240
changes because when I started, 
I used to eat loads of malt loaf

775
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,600
of tea bread that I made myself.
And then after one race, I was 

776
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,560
like, don't ever see that again.
So variety, if you can get some 

777
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,680
variety of what you're going to 
eat, cheese sandwiches, it's 

778
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:33,520
like, you know, like the thins 
and then cheese sandwiches and 

779
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,800
stuff like that. 
But just a real, real mix of of 

780
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,320
food. 
Everything you've said there, I 

781
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,040
think it was one thing. 
I can't even remember what it 

782
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,560
was that everything else. 
Fully agree. 

783
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:50,000
I would have all of it. 
And I'm like you, I'll eat and 

784
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,640
run, which comes in handy 
sometimes. 

785
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:58,280
Really, really handy, Yeah. 
And then it's like, you know, 

786
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,560
Northern Traverse, they were 
really good. 

787
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,520
But the thing I found when I 
went to one of the first 

788
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,560
checkpoints where they had food 
is they put too much in and it's

789
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,520
better to have a little bit and 
then say, can I have some more? 

790
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:11,080
Because they gave me a massive 
portion. 

791
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,200
I was like, oh, it's not feeling
right. 

792
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,680
And actually when I was at 
Northern Traverse, when I got to

793
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,120
Kirkby Steven, I went really 
faint. 

794
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,880
I think it was just we were 
running throughout the day and 

795
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,040
just it was the bit between 
Sharp and Kirk be Steven, which 

796
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,480
is pretty much nothing apart 
from kind of rolling hills. 

797
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,200
And I just went really faint and
I actually started to cry. 

798
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,400
I was like, this is my race. 
And they were like, sit down, 

799
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,960
have a Coke. 
And then I felt much better. 

800
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,240
So I would say, I know people 
say I don't really drink Coke. 

801
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:46,840
I was like, well, I mean, it 
really helps when you're in the 

802
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,800
races and when you see the 
actual actual genuine Coke, 

803
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,160
you're like. 
Yeah. 

804
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,520
In CCC they had banks of like 
soda streams and they were just 

805
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:03,240
like making Coke via. 
So it was like that was a sight 

806
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:04,760
to behold, but it wasn't the 
real stuff. 

807
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,480
Put put real stuff in the bag in
your drop bag if you if you 

808
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,880
think that'll give you your 
boost. 

809
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,920
Definitely, that's great advice.
It's saved my race on a couple 

810
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,440
of occasions for sure. 
As we mentioned in the 

811
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,240
introduction, you've got 
involvement with Black Trail 

812
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:25,800
Runners and Salomon. 
How did you get involved with 

813
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:27,840
both and? 
Key tells a bit about them. 

814
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,520
Yeah, sure. 
So the, you know, Black Trail 

815
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:36,200
Runners is a, is a charity which
is there to increase 

816
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:38,480
representation of black people 
in the trails. 

817
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,600
So making it visible that we're 
here. 

818
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:48,200
And I think The thing is, is 
that when I started running, you

819
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,520
know, I, I suppose running, I've
always and I didn't like running

820
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,440
at school. 
And I think it's kind of a a key

821
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,680
threat to a lot of people that 
do this now is like, oh, I 

822
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,120
didn't really like it at school.
And those associated runners 

823
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:05,360
with probably the swinging 
ponytails, which is sounds 

824
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,480
really weird, but it was just 
like that's what you know, you 

825
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:10,920
see a lot in athletes and I 
didn't have that. 

826
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,760
And actually the first time I 
kind of become a came aware of 

827
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,080
black trail runners was I saw a 
picture of Serena pace front 

828
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,480
Humphreys and it was this dark 
image, but her hair was like 

829
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,920
Afro and out. 
I was like, Oh my God, there's 

830
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:29,400
someone that looks like me doing
the thing I like to do. 

831
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:35,720
And actually when I went out to 
Chamonix in 2021, like we made 

832
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:38,520
that a family holiday and I have
so many amazing memories from 

833
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,880
that. 
But it also felt really isolated

834
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:47,200
and that I wasn't represented in
a lot of the kind of marketing 

835
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,160
that they do, but also just the 
demographic that go to the 

836
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,720
races. 
It just didn't feel like I 

837
00:48:53,720 --> 00:48:55,640
belonged. 
And then we were starting that 

838
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,720
start line like, do I belong 
here? 

839
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,520
It it's quite, it's really 
isolating. 

840
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:07,320
But Sabrina met me at the finish
line and it, I had this hug and 

841
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:12,040
this conversation with her and 
it, you know, it just meant so 

842
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:15,880
much. 
And that charity's doing so much

843
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,960
to try and show that we, we 
belong there. 

844
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,800
To make sure races are aware of 
the charity and the things that 

845
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,960
they can do to encourage others.
So they, you know, they put on 

846
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,920
with black chair runners, put on
social runs, they have places 

847
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,960
they give support to people that
want to do runs or races. 

848
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,280
They do skills so people feel 
empowered to be there. 

849
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:47,000
And then this year we had 7 
black women doing different 

850
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:52,920
races at UT MB and we got in on 
the Wednesday and Sabrina had an

851
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,800
event. 
And so we kind of got in, dumped

852
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,360
the stuff at the Airbnb and 
came, went to Chamonix to this 

853
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,480
event. 
And it was just completely 

854
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,800
different experience to the 
first experience. 

855
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,440
I had to come into Chamonix. 
You know, there'd been three 

856
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,320
women who'd already done their 
race, they'd done ETC, which 15 

857
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:18,560
kilometres, 2000 metres of 
elevation, like unbelievable. 

858
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,800
So they were on the high from 
there. 

859
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:26,160
And then I met so Rebecca again,
Juliet Saabs and myself were 

860
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:30,480
still to run. 
We were there launching here for

861
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,880
the women's race with a 
collaboration with black trail 

862
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,640
runners. 
So they have AT shirt that you 

863
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,680
can buy and some of the proceeds
go to the charity. 

864
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,600
And, you know, I've had 
conversations and then see 

865
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:48,360
people do a race and it just 
feels so good to people. 

866
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,560
Like I feel like I can do it. 
And I was like, you can totally 

867
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,240
do it. 
And it's just such a supportive 

868
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:58,520
environment, you know, for 
people to have conversations 

869
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,320
about how they feel, how the 
races make them feel. 

870
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:09,520
And yeah, it's, it's just, it's 
a such a supportive and 

871
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:13,280
community. 
So it's really important. 

872
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,760
And they're doing. 
And The thing is a thing to bear

873
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,440
in mind when people see 
especially Sabrina, but they're 

874
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:19,680
obviously other trustees as 
well. 

875
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:25,240
Sunny but what we see the work 
that she does is like an 

876
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:26,760
iceberg. 
We see the tip of it. 

877
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,200
She's having a lot of 
conversations with a lot of 

878
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:35,560
brands, a lot of a lot of 
organisations that want to maybe

879
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,440
slap the label on it, but don't 
want to do the work. 

880
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,360
And and she's, you know, they're
the trustees are really, you 

881
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:44,880
know, no, you have to be in 
this. 

882
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,440
You have to understand it. 
You can't just want to put your 

883
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,760
label on it for a particular 
race. 

884
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,440
So that's, you know, I'm forever
grateful to them. 

885
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,280
And if anybody wants to know 
more, I would say read Sabrina 

886
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:02,960
Pace Humphrey's book, Black 
Sheep. 

887
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,920
As you know, I read that book 
and it sounds really stupid 

888
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,480
because I didn't think I was the
only person. 

889
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:13,840
But the experience she's talking
about like, Oh my God, she's 

890
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:15,520
experienced the same things as 
me. 

891
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,560
And she talks a lot about her 
past, the things she's 

892
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,200
experienced some horrific things
and races. 

893
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,560
And she, you know, I feel 
grateful because then I don't 

894
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,280
have to share like my 
experiences because what you 

895
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,800
have to understand is people, 
it's sharing their experiences 

896
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:38,440
is their trauma in some cases. 
And the analogy, and it sounds 

897
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,280
quite glib, but it's like 
saying, oh, you know, we're 

898
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,800
doing something about Rd. 
traffic accidents and you were 

899
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,160
in a road traffic accident. 
Can you explain to me how that 

900
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,920
affected your life? 
Some of these, you know, these 

901
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,200
experiences you're talking 
about, you know, it's really 

902
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,160
painful when you think about the
things that you've had to 

903
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,960
endure. 
And if I can point to say, look,

904
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,280
go read Sabrina's book and 
understand what people are 

905
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,320
having to deal with. 
Yeah. 

906
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:11,960
So the, the support that goes 
behind that is really important.

907
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,480
And yeah, it was just such a 
different experience. 

908
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,640
I was on the start line with 
Juliet at CCC as well. 

909
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,280
And it was, it was just great. 
And like, she's, you know, she'd

910
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,000
just written a post and she's 
like, well, she could spot me 

911
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,640
because like there was only two.
Well, we could only see two of 

912
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:32,240
us, which I mean, it's handy, 
but it's not what we want at 

913
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:33,840
all. 
And there were seven of us this 

914
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:38,840
year. 
But we want more and it 

915
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,120
shouldn't be a closed community.
And I think, you know, I've 

916
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:47,760
talked about how I got into OCC 
last time, but to get into CCCI 

917
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,480
had to do, oh, I didn't have to 
do nice, but I ran the nice. 

918
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:54,080
I, I did one race. 
But you get emails from UTMB and

919
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,480
go, oh, if you've got 5 stones, 
you're more likely to get in. 

920
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,040
And it's like, give it, how much
do those 5 stones cost? 

921
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,360
Yeah. 
So yeah, that that's a bit about

922
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,560
black trail runners, but I would
suggest that people go look, 

923
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,880
support, buy the T-shirts. 
The one thing I'm quite keen on 

924
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,640
is that change doesn't come from
the minorities. 

925
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,680
Change comes from everybody 
supporting the minorities. 

926
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:19,800
So don't just look at us and go,
you're doing a good job. 

927
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:24,280
How can others support? 
You don't have to be black to 

928
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:29,160
join Black trail runners allies.
We need our allies as well, so 

929
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:32,080
don't think, oh I'm not black, I
can't join. 

930
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:35,800
Please join Black Trail Runners 
and see what you can do to help 

931
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,040
as well. 
I don't know if you'll know, 

932
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,760
Serena, but you say there were 
seven women black trail runners 

933
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,480
at UTMB. 
Do you know how many males there

934
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,120
were? 
So from black trail runners, so 

935
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,120
literally that's that's from our
group. 

936
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:54,520
So there may have been more 
don't think UTMB publish any 

937
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:57,280
ethnicity stats. 
So it could be harder to get on 

938
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,000
that. 
And that's one thing black trail

939
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,840
runners are pushing for because 
how can you know if you're 

940
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:03,120
making a difference if you don't
take that data? 

941
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:07,240
So a lot of races that are 
affiliated or have worked with 

942
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:09,840
black trail runners do publish 
those statistics. 

943
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,840
But from black trail runners, 
there was Simba doing UTMB. 

944
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,400
But yeah, it's and it is a 
lottery, right? 

945
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,200
We have to be in it to win it. 
Yeah, I was going to ask what 

946
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:29,000
can brands and races do in as a 
podcast? 

947
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,720
What can we do? 
We we've had yourself, people 

948
00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:35,040
like yourself coming on talking 
about these sort of things. 

949
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:41,200
We had Karen Nickel and David 
Martin Cassani about the women's

950
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,360
side of how do we get women 
involved? 

951
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:45,720
So it's like, what can people 
do? 

952
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:49,640
And I guess you answered that by
going looking up black trail 

953
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,040
runners, go and buy the book, 
read the book. 

954
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:58,320
Is there anything else that? 
Sabrina puts in the in the book,

955
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:00,760
there is a thing about how to be
an, an ally. 

956
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,640
And I really would read the book
and read that and, and get 

957
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:08,680
involved in it, like wear the 
T-shirts, wear the bus, find out

958
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,960
what you know, what are the 
barriers for races. 

959
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,120
It is getting involved in that 
and and having those 

960
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,280
conversations and not wanting to
be in it, to be seen to be doing

961
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:21,040
it, but in it because you you 
want to see a diversity in the 

962
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:22,800
people that are doing your 
races. 

963
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,320
Yeah. 
I mean, I think for for women 

964
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,680
there's there's obvious things 
you can do so making sure 

965
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,600
there's period products etcetera
in there. 

966
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:39,440
But even still, like some of the
the race marketing is to be 

967
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:40,360
desired. 
I was. 

968
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,600
Yeah, I think you've stunned us 
there. 

969
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:52,880
Oh, you asked about Salomon as 
well? 

970
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,120
Because I can't forget forget 
them. 

971
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:59,240
They're not important. 
They are important. 

972
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:04,080
They are important, but I 
actually feel after that doesn't

973
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:08,040
seem as important. 
Salomon are a big brand and have

974
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,880
plenty of ambassadors, but what 
you just spoke about there was 

975
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,520
so important. 
And I have actually started 

976
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:20,880
reading Sabrina's book. 
I'm on chapter 3 and already I'm

977
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,160
a bit like, oh gosh, this is a 
really hard read but I'm gonna 

978
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:29,760
try and persevere 'cause I'm one
for trying to avoid, you know, 

979
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,760
sad topics. 
I won't watch films with the dog

980
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,480
in because I know the dog dies 
ultimately at the end, so let's 

981
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:39,960
just avoid them. 
But knowing Sabrina through 

982
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,240
Instagram and seeing it's truly 
to God, it's got to have a 

983
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,960
positive ending. 
The The thing is as well, like 

984
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:52,200
my daughter picked up the book 
where she's in the race where no

985
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:54,040
one helps her when she's 
slipping off a slope. 

986
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,000
And my daughters, I don't 
understand why no one would 

987
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:58,480
help. 
Yeah. 

988
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,120
And she was crying and she was 
like, I just don't understand 

989
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:05,240
why no one would help. 
But you say Salomon's not 

990
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,760
important, but it is important 
to me. 

991
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:12,520
Like they've, you know, I could.
I don't think I could afford to 

992
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,040
do these races without the kit 
that they've given me. 

993
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:16,520
And that is another thing to 
say. 

994
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,480
The kit is expensive, like, and 
you need it. 

995
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,560
You need the good kit. 
And like, we're lucky that we've

996
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:26,680
been into hiking and we've been 
into outdoor sports. 

997
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,560
So we do have a lot of good kit 
that we've built up over the 

998
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,360
time. 
But, you know, even I went to 

999
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,800
Spy and Sprint and you have to 
have a bivvy. 

1000
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,600
And we had a bivvy. 
It's not a very lightweight one,

1001
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:42,800
but we had one. 
So I just put that in and the 

1002
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,520
guy doing the kit check was 
like, there are lighter ones. 

1003
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,120
I was like, yeah, but this is 
the one we have. 

1004
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,320
But the things that I do and I 
would say to other people like 

1005
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,160
don't you know, I've lent, you 
know, Rebecca Deveraux who did 

1006
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,000
this, she came to 3rd. 
Black Trail Runner came third in

1007
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,280
the Spine Sprint winter this 
year. 

1008
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:05,560
And I'm lending some people kit 
for the young the the next Spine

1009
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,440
Races. 
Ask to borrow kit. 

1010
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,600
Put it out there on Instagram or
whatever. 

1011
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,560
Come and find me, ask the 
question. 

1012
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:18,120
Black Trail Runners also has kit
as well, but don't buy the kit 

1013
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:19,600
if you don't think you're going 
to need it. 

1014
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:23,160
Like I often lend out kit to 
people. 

1015
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:28,680
I'm in a very fortunate position
that I have really good kit that

1016
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:34,520
I can use and honestly then 
enabling me to do this, I have 

1017
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,040
the ambassadors as well. 
They're an amazing group of 

1018
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,400
people with a lot of good 
experience that I'm able to lean

1019
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,200
on. 
So although they're a big brand 

1020
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,080
to me, they've made a difference
to me and the ability to be able

1021
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:54,400
to do these races, to have 
access or not to have access. 

1022
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:55,760
I'm sure I would have found 
those people. 

1023
00:59:55,760 --> 01:00:00,000
But I get to run with these 
people and, you know, and, you 

1024
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,480
know, they're my friends. 
Like it's mad. 

1025
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:10,920
So yeah, you can be quite like 
it's black tribe one is 

1026
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:16,520
important to me, but. 
Salomon giving me this kit has 

1027
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,200
enabled me to be able to do 
these races because it would be 

1028
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:25,040
I do that race or I have to buy 
a pair of I don't know and a a 

1029
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:30,080
really good waterproof jacket. 
I I was obviously joking. 

1030
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:33,560
That I know. 
But it it just what what you've 

1031
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:35,800
said there, it does show how 
they are important. 

1032
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:39,240
They are backing your movement, 
as it were. 

1033
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,320
And I'm a completely normal 
runner. 

1034
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:43,720
Like when they asked me, I was 
like, I'm sorry, me. 

1035
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,840
I don't, I don't podium. 
I run pretty slow. 

1036
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,160
Do you know what I mean? 
I'm a I'm a mum. 

1037
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:56,800
I just, you know, I'm not, you 
know, I'm just a normal person 

1038
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:01,440
because I was like, meet me. 
You OK, you know. 

1039
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:06,720
And it, it, it did challenge me 
because I was like, why? 

1040
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:11,560
Why me? 
So yeah, I was. 

1041
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,240
I was. 
Going to ask that as well. 

1042
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,840
How how does an ambassadorship 
come about? 

1043
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:22,000
Is there an application process 
or do they go and seek on social

1044
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,720
media and events the runners 
that they feel would be good to 

1045
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,160
represent? 
Them so it was a mix. 

1046
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:31,320
Some people applied. 
I didn't see that and I don't 

1047
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,440
know if I would have applied 
because I thought me. 

1048
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:40,880
So yeah, I had a direct message 
and I was like, this isn't real.

1049
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,920
But then the person, yeah, Then 
the person said, do you want me 

1050
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:49,560
to give you my e-mail address? 
And I was like, this could be 

1051
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:52,480
real. 
And we just had a conversation 

1052
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:54,640
and they asked me about running 
in a bit like this. 

1053
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:59,760
I just didn't stop. 
That's not a bad thing. 

1054
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,160
It shows enthusiasm and you're a
fantastic ambassador for 

1055
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:04,920
Salomon. 
I try. 

1056
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:16,080
And next question, and it might 
be a Salomon sponsored race or 

1057
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,520
choose any other one because 
there are plenty out there. 

1058
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,040
What What would be your favorite
race? 

1059
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:27,560
I've done. 
Done or bucket list or you 

1060
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,600
choose. 
Let's say bucket list mate. 

1061
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:37,040
That's the next year's question.
Ahead, I really find it 

1062
01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:41,320
difficult to nail down a race 
that I would say that was my 

1063
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:46,640
favorite race because they all 
give you something different and

1064
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,120
an experience that you can lean 
on. 

1065
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,400
So, you know, when you think 
things are hard, you know. 

1066
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:54,560
Oh, do you remember that time 
when we were slugging up? 

1067
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,480
Phantoms fell, we couldn't see 
anything and it was raining and 

1068
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:02,760
it was miserable. 
Or you know, when you were 

1069
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,600
running in the Alps in a pinch 
me moment and you're looking 

1070
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,240
around and seeing these 
mountains. 

1071
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:14,600
I'm just very fortunate that 
I've done some amazing races and

1072
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:19,200
met some amazing people. 
I always love the races I do 

1073
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,960
with my friends. 
So we did a relay across 

1074
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:28,360
Scotland. 
We've done Loch Ness 24 this 

1075
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:32,360
year. 
We did scurry two bridges and 

1076
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:34,960
it's just fun. 
Like the first year I was like, 

1077
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,040
oh, it'd be fun. 
We just put snacks in the car. 

1078
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:38,640
We'll run and everyone's like, 
yes. 

1079
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,680
And I was like, OK. 
And then Loch Ness 24 was like, 

1080
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:44,120
it was like there would be like 
the relay but the snacks won't 

1081
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:49,560
move. 
Yes, but every race I I either 

1082
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,640
gain something or someone from 
it. 

1083
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,120
So I'm, I'm really lucky in that
way. 

1084
01:03:56,120 --> 01:04:01,840
I, I'd find it difficult to say 
1 particular race. 

1085
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:07,240
I mean, running through Shamani 
with my girls after doing OCC 

1086
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:13,600
and CCC is so special. 
And I was so worried doing the 

1087
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:17,440
CCC when I got like to 1 
checkpoint and they were like 10

1088
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:21,280
minutes to go and I was like, Oh
my God, I'm not going to be able

1089
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,360
to do the 100K, which means 
they're not going to get to do 

1090
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:31,120
the 100 meters, which is crazy. 
But yeah, I am very lucky to 

1091
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:33,120
have. 
I wouldn't pick one. 

1092
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,360
I can't pick one race because 
one race leads to another one 

1093
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,520
experience leads myself to 
think, oh, maybe I could do 

1094
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,640
that. 
That thing that's really hard. 

1095
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:50,320
It's a crap answer, sorry. 
Because it's just like, and even

1096
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,520
like building up to the races, 
the training ones you do with 

1097
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,760
people or the, you know, the 
chats you have with people. 

1098
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:03,920
And afterwards when me and Lee 
haven't met for a while because 

1099
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,000
we're doing our silly races and 
he's like, we need to have a 

1100
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,120
catch up. 
We need to have a catch up and 

1101
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:11,240
how invested people are. 
And like, I can help you with 

1102
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:16,440
that changing one. 
It's just, yeah, very lucky to 

1103
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:19,760
have the experiences. 
And as I mentioned there as 

1104
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,600
well, do you have a bucket list 
race the because you have done 

1105
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:27,320
so many spectacular ones already
as the one on your radar that 

1106
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:28,840
you think, oh, that's the 
ultimate. 

1107
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:34,080
I would like to complete the 
spine, that's no secret. 

1108
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:39,160
Next year I'm doing challenge in
North, so that would be doing 

1109
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:44,640
the full spine in two stages and
then see if I can do it in one. 

1110
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,920
In the winter or the summer. 
Summer, summer, summer. 

1111
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:50,640
Even if. 
I thought. 

1112
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:54,800
The winter had better weather 
even, Well, even if it's better 

1113
01:05:55,000 --> 01:06:02,680
weather, I, I was like this 
year, like the glorious snow 

1114
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:06,920
they had at the beginning. 
I was like, oh, but no, I just, 

1115
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:09,880
I, I want to see it. 
And I think that's the thing. 

1116
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,840
If you do the winter one, 
there's so much time and 

1117
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:19,120
darkness and you have to train 
over Christmas and I'm like, so 

1118
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,000
yeah, the the summer's fine is 
definitely one on my bucket 

1119
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:24,600
list. 
I even want things like I want 

1120
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,600
to run the West Highland way. 
I don't think I necessarily want

1121
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,200
to do any of the races, but I 
would quite like to fast pack 

1122
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,840
it. 
There's there's a quite a few 

1123
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:37,000
long distance routes that I 
would like at some point to do. 

1124
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:42,360
Not races, but places I'd like, 
yeah, vouchers and places I'd 

1125
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,880
like to go and see. 
So yeah. 

1126
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:53,160
So leading on from that, the 
question that we always ask is 

1127
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,280
why? 
Why do you get out there? 

1128
01:06:56,280 --> 01:07:04,880
Why do you run that's? 
A good question I I run because 

1129
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,120
it does help me mentally as 
well. 

1130
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:13,280
It's a good break. 
I find, you know, sometimes when

1131
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,360
you're, you know, mulling 
something over, I quite like to 

1132
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,720
go for a run one I to get away 
from like sitting down and 

1133
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:23,440
thinking about it, but actually 
one foot in front of another. 

1134
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:28,280
You might Mull it over in in a 
different place and it and it's 

1135
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:32,080
like clicks or to completely 
clear my head. 

1136
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:37,200
I am not someone that can do 
yoga and get into that kind of 

1137
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,960
quiet space. 
My brain is like, I like, I 

1138
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,200
haven't done it for ages, but 
I'd like doing yoga, but I'd be 

1139
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:45,240
like, oh, and then I can put 
this on and then tomorrow I'll 

1140
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,440
have the dinner this and then I 
don't forget to put that in so 

1141
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:50,160
and so's bag. 
And then, oh, tomorrow I'm 

1142
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:54,120
travelling here. 
So I need to and my brain when 

1143
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:56,920
I'm running, for some reason it 
doesn't do that. 

1144
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,640
So that the probably the only 
time that my probably my brain 

1145
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:04,080
is the most quiet is is when I'm
running. 

1146
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:09,480
But I like to move, like I've 
always said that it might not be

1147
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,640
running forever. 
At the moment it's running, but 

1148
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:14,600
I like to move. 
Done cycling, done hiking, you 

1149
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:21,279
know, I like to move. 
I like to get out there in the 

1150
01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:26,840
outdoors to go to the same 
places, same views and see it 

1151
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,279
over the year. 
So when you get to the, you 

1152
01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:34,160
know, winter of the Pentlands 
and seeing all whites and then 

1153
01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:37,399
you'll start to see, you know, 
turn green and then you'll start

1154
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:40,439
to see the gorse of yellow and 
then yours. 

1155
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:43,800
Now it's, you know, the Heather 
of, you know, purple Heather. 

1156
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:48,880
It's really nice. 
And, you know, I can get up at 

1157
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:52,640
ridiculous o'clock and the sun 
rises and the sun sets. 

1158
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:54,399
The more I see the sun rises. 
I don't. 

1159
01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:59,479
I tend to run first thing in the
morning rather than last thing 

1160
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:04,120
at night. 
But even that like seeing that 

1161
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:08,399
and then seeing the sun rises 
and you said, well, I still do 

1162
01:09:08,399 --> 01:09:11,800
take pictures of animals that 
you don't necessarily see a lot.

1163
01:09:12,319 --> 01:09:14,520
And not with my youngest son. 
What did you see today? 

1164
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,040
Like a sheep Wasn't very 
interesting. 

1165
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:19,560
Sorry. 
Or you say you saw something 

1166
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:21,800
like I saw a weasel slashed out 
because I don't know the 

1167
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:23,880
difference. 
And they're like, did you take a

1168
01:09:23,880 --> 01:09:26,040
picture? 
I was like, well, straight past 

1169
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:26,920
me. 
So no. 

1170
01:09:28,359 --> 01:09:30,960
So yeah, I run for lots of 
different things and it's it, 

1171
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:35,080
it's amazing the confidence that
running has given me. 

1172
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:38,520
I'm not an overly confident 
person. 

1173
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:45,640
And I definitely, you know, I 
applied for a job with work that

1174
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:47,960
I don't think I would have 
applied for if I didn't run, 

1175
01:09:48,359 --> 01:09:51,080
which sounds mad. 
But when you've got your through

1176
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:54,920
self through sticky situations 
and races, just feel your 

1177
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,200
confidence grows. 
And I feel like I've done that 

1178
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:02,280
over time, like expanded my own 
comfortable zone a bit more and 

1179
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:04,680
a bit more through the races 
that I've done. 

1180
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:10,120
So it's helped me feel a bit 
more confident as well. 

1181
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:13,880
Yeah, I, I, I think you have 
answered the. 

1182
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,400
The next question was what do 
you think about when you're 

1183
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:21,600
running and? 
Everything and nothing, yeah. 

1184
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:24,760
So that's a valid answer. 
So we're going to move on to the

1185
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,520
next one, which is our our 
awkward question for the day. 

1186
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:35,760
And it might not be who would 
you like to run with a live, not

1187
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,360
with this not fictional reel. 
It's up to you how you answer 

1188
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:44,640
it. 
I, you know, when you run with 

1189
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,040
people, it's such a special, 
special thing. 

1190
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:53,440
So I've run with, I, I don't 
necessarily like running with 

1191
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:57,360
big groups of people, but like 
if you run with like threes, 

1192
01:10:57,360 --> 01:10:59,160
fours. 
And then when you start to get 

1193
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:03,600
to know people and you're side 
by side or in, you know, 1 to 

1194
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:07,240
one as well. 
And you'll share things that you

1195
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:12,480
won't share if you're sat face 
to face having a coffee, right? 

1196
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:16,160
And you'll talk about things. 
And there's, you know, been 

1197
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:18,120
times when I've just had to turn
around and give someone a 

1198
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,360
massive hug. 
It's such as, you know, because 

1199
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:23,560
they're like, well, this thing's
happening, but when you're 

1200
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:26,600
focusing on getting, you know, 1
foot in front of another, but 

1201
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:27,960
you're just talking about 
things. 

1202
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:31,680
So I'm probably going to cop out
here and say like, I am so 

1203
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:33,960
lucky. 
You know, I don't feel like me 

1204
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:37,760
and Nikki have had a proper run 
together, but yet there's loads 

1205
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,440
of people that have. 
I've had chats with my Instagram

1206
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:48,800
is not fair to accrue followers.
I have a lot of conversations 

1207
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,320
behind the scenes and I think 
that's the one thing that's 

1208
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:56,240
important is that people send me
like especially for CCC sent me 

1209
01:11:56,240 --> 01:12:00,000
messages and I was just 
overwhelmed in a good way by the

1210
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:05,240
support that people have for me.
And I hope I reflect that back 

1211
01:12:05,240 --> 01:12:08,880
out, that when I see people 
doing their races, I try and 

1212
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,080
drop them a message. 
And so I'm going to cop out and 

1213
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:14,120
say there's a lot of people. 
There's lots of people I still 

1214
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:18,280
haven't gone for runs with. 
There's people like Lee, Nicky, 

1215
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:22,440
Helen, that it's really tricky 
because we're all doing races 

1216
01:12:22,440 --> 01:12:27,280
and we want to meet up. 
So there's probably not one 

1217
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:30,680
person. 
It's lots of people that I not 

1218
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:36,360
in all one go because. 
But I I just I really love and 

1219
01:12:36,360 --> 01:12:40,920
treasure that one to one time 
that you get with someone when 

1220
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:44,360
you run side by side. 
And you know, me and Lee were 

1221
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:49,960
doing a run in the Pentlands and
I before I met up with Lee, I 

1222
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:52,320
saw a woman running down and 
exchanged to hi. 

1223
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:54,120
How you doing? 
Not much. 

1224
01:12:54,200 --> 01:13:00,120
And then me and Lee did the run 
and then we were going up for 

1225
01:13:00,120 --> 01:13:05,080
kits for people that know 
Pentlands and this woman was 

1226
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:09,520
running down. 
I was like, hi and just start. 

1227
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:11,960
I will talk to anyone. 
My daughters love that about me 

1228
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:15,080
and people in the Pentlands must
love that about me as well. 

1229
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,040
Oh my God, we should shut up. 
I just want to go. 

1230
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:19,640
But I just had. 
And she said, were you in 

1231
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:23,320
Germany in 2021? 
And I was like, yes. 

1232
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:26,320
And and she also has children. 
So obviously I had the girls and

1233
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:30,280
was wrangling them and then I 
said well, we should exchange 

1234
01:13:30,280 --> 01:13:31,840
numbers. 
And then we went for a run and 

1235
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,880
we had some an amazing talk 
about being mums that do stuff 

1236
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:42,000
AO do runs and races and those 
conversations they do, they do 

1237
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,840
mean a lot to me. 
So it's not one person, but it's

1238
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:52,520
having those those moments with 
people I find amazing, really. 

1239
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:56,920
And I guess that answers the 
question of why do you run so 

1240
01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:59,040
that you can have that 
conversations. 

1241
01:14:00,480 --> 01:14:04,080
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean, it's, it is. 

1242
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:06,080
Yeah. 
I do think it's pretty crazy 

1243
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:11,160
when you think about it. 
But you have these connections 

1244
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:18,320
with people, incidences that 
happen that forge friendships 

1245
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:19,760
and they're like people like, 
how did you meet? 

1246
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:24,480
Oh. 
It was on the Internet well. 

1247
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:30,600
That's, that is, that is really 
a tricky thing to talk about. 

1248
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:34,360
But you know, Katie, Katie who I
was probably one of the first 

1249
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:37,240
people I met from Instagram, she
literally put up, I'm in 

1250
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:39,400
Edinburgh. 
Does anybody fancy a run? 

1251
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:44,680
I was like, Yep. 
And then that's you'd just go, 

1252
01:14:45,480 --> 01:14:47,960
yeah. 
And then, you know, you cannot 

1253
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:49,920
see people for a while. 
You're following their 

1254
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,520
adventures on Instagram. 
And then you come back together 

1255
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:59,000
and exchange what you've done. 
So yeah, it's it's and you share

1256
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:03,760
some special places together, 
like ridiculous times of, of 

1257
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:11,640
races and, you know, singing Bon
Jovi halfway through Northern. 

1258
01:15:11,680 --> 01:15:17,760
That's because we went halfway 
there as things you're, you're 

1259
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:22,600
not going to forget or you know,
when I was doing CCC, like I 

1260
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,560
said, I was at 1 checkpoint, 
it's 10 minutes to go and 

1261
01:15:27,240 --> 01:15:30,840
someone, Juliet's team said is 
there anything we can do? 

1262
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:32,520
What can we do to help? 
And I was like, no, no, I'm 

1263
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:33,920
fine. 
I'm just going to get a coke and

1264
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,080
have a gel. 
And they gave me, they just 

1265
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:41,640
handed me a packet of hula hoops
and looked at me like, you can 

1266
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:45,080
do this. 
And those hula hoops was just, I

1267
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,960
only took a few, but just really
helped, you know, it's just, 

1268
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:52,840
yeah, it's a quite a special 
thing when you go through those 

1269
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:58,800
those kind of instance together.
So this has been a fabulous 

1270
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,000
chat. 
Serena, thank you so much for 

1271
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,520
coming on. 
Just one last question to wrap 

1272
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:07,840
us up as we are unfortunately 
running out of time. 

1273
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:10,760
What is next for your running 
wise? 

1274
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:15,160
Is it 7 valleys? 
I have 7 valleys with a bunch of

1275
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:19,720
Jelly babies to give to Carl, 
but I'm looking forward to it. 

1276
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,880
I think the reason why I was a 
bit crestfallen when I thought 

1277
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:27,480
I'd have to give give it up was 
that I know a lot of people that

1278
01:16:27,480 --> 01:16:29,920
going, we're going to share that
time with Carl. 

1279
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:34,040
We're going to have a proper 
catch up message in since 

1280
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:36,520
Challenge of South. 
But we haven't seen each other 

1281
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:41,840
and he's done races and I've 
done races and I know Lee's 

1282
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:44,360
going down as Carly that I 
follow. 

1283
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,560
That's going to be there's going
to be quite a few people there. 

1284
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:51,960
Lakes is a special place. 
I expect it will rain, but I 

1285
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:56,040
hope it doesn't come on 
September last flourish of of 

1286
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,560
heat. 
So that's that's me. 

1287
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:02,880
And then I usually have a bit of
a break around lead up to 

1288
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:10,000
Christmas because it's just so 
busy with kids, Christmas, all 

1289
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:15,920
their stuff. 
So I tend to kind of not do too 

1290
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:19,040
much, kind of like train for an 
event. 

1291
01:17:19,040 --> 01:17:23,520
I might do what social runs. 
So anyone that wants to go to 

1292
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,600
Pentlands, that's when I'll be 
not maybe doing silly o'clock 

1293
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:34,600
runs or long, long runs. 
And then after January, I'll be 

1294
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:41,080
putting spine on to get myself 
ready for then June next year 

1295
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:45,880
when I try and do Challenger N 
sorry, fantastic. 

1296
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:48,400
That's what's ahead of me. 
So. 

1297
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:52,760
So what's spine in summer called
if winter is spinous? 

1298
01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:55,040
Oh, I don't know. 
Have no idea. 

1299
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:57,280
Have to think of something, will
we? 

1300
01:17:57,480 --> 01:18:01,040
There's a challenge. 
It's it's called hoping there's 

1301
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:02,320
warm weather, but there never 
is. 

1302
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:08,840
Right. 
I think sadly we're running out 

1303
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:14,120
of time. 
We we all three of us, I think 

1304
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:20,040
have something to do. 
But it's been a great chat, very

1305
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:24,960
inspiring. 
I would say you got a message to

1306
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:29,720
send and you're definitely 
talking about it and talk about 

1307
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:31,960
it on trails. 
People want to listen. 

1308
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,920
Hopefully they'll do something 
about it and as all we we can 

1309
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:40,080
say is we, we want to pass the 
message on as well. 

1310
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:45,320
So it comes from me to say thank
you Serena for being on, Thank 

1311
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:47,560
you Nikki for being Nikki, and 
it's goodbye for me. 

1312
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:50,880
Thank you for coming on. 
Thank you for having me.