1 00:00:21,250 --> 00:00:24,930 Hello and welcome to another episode of Run Till You're Done. 2 00:00:25,490 --> 00:00:29,770 This week's guest happens to be studying for the Doctor and AI, 3 00:00:29,770 --> 00:00:33,570 so this week I have made the actual effort to write my own 4 00:00:33,570 --> 00:00:35,650 introduction so as that I'm not rumbled. 5 00:00:36,290 --> 00:00:39,960 However, where do I start? He's one of the original 6 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,280 characters in the pylon community, becoming a coach not 7 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,920 long after joining him. He's ran for Great Britain 8 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,240 several times for the 24 European and World Championships 9 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:53,640 that that have to weigh because I wasn't sure. 10 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,120 He's won the West Highland Way race, Rocky Raccoon 100 and 11 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,440 holds FKTS on the Faith Coastal Path and the John Muir Way. 12 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:08,000 He also Co presents the Pylon Ultra podcast with Paul Giblin 13 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,120 from time to time. Sorry Mike. 14 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,800 I do have another favorite podcast other than I was and I 15 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,560 just can't wait to find out where he gets all of the time to 16 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,000 fit everything in. So welcome to the podcast, James 17 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,200 Stewart. Thank you very much, Nikki. 18 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,840 That's such a nice introduction. I'm, I'm blushing a tiny bit. 19 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:28,400 I'm matching my top and my heart. 20 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,200 If you want the full blush or that AI it and what it spat out 21 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:38,080 was he's thoughtful, articulate, funny, and he has that mix of 22 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,200 big mileage, experience and real life perspective. 23 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,640 See and people say AI is bad. There you go. 24 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,520 We'll find out how much of that is true. 25 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,880 You're in this house. Oh mate, you're setting me up 26 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,520 now you're setting me up. So the question that we ask 27 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,560 every single guest that comes on James, how did you first get 28 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,760 into running? I mean, like if you're 29 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,040 listening, go start boiling an egg because this takes quite a 30 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,759 wee while to tell, but actually it's a kind of typical story for 31 00:02:09,759 --> 00:02:11,480 many. But the start, the start point 32 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,640 of this is when I was younger, I played football at a reasonable 33 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:17,040 level. Was never going to make it, but 34 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,560 kind of like most young kids in Scotland, I thought it was. 35 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,400 And so by the time I was 30, I realized my dream was over 36 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,360 because I was got plenty such a poor level and I just decided to 37 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,240 stop playing football. But I'd always run at school. 38 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,480 I was, I was really good at that kind of 815 hundred, you know, 39 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,040 always medal and always in the podiums and stuff at that at 40 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,920 school. But I'd never taken it seriously 41 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:40,440 because it was football, football, football. 42 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,800 And so I kind of always had that ability and it's always, always 43 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,840 active. But between the ages of both 30 44 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:50,440 and 38, I actually ran a few marathons. 45 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,160 And it may surprise people once you hear the story on here. 46 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:55,560 It took me 10 marathons to go under 4 hours. 47 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,600 Just for context, right when you think because I never trained 48 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,920 for them, it was like 60 miles a month, you know, do the odd 60 49 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:05,160 mile run, go down a marathon, end up abstract pain from 20 50 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,920 miles and then just go and get absolute well, even awareness 51 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:10,400 bins. That was the that was basically 52 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:15,720 the marathon approach. And then between the ages about 53 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,560 3038, start to grow a family. I was back at university back 54 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,400 then part time as well. I've always speaking a lifelong 55 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,760 student, working full time, build my career, got married, 56 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,240 kids come along and I just blend weight. 57 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:36,160 So I get to the age of I'm 37 by this point and my second child, 58 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,480 Kaylin's born. So I'm actually 3030353536 and 59 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,600 there's a picture of me holding them and it's just terrible. 60 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,520 I look absolutely terrible. And what, maybe 4 1/2 five stone 61 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,200 heavier than I am now. I look, you know, that way you 62 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,320 just look unhealthy. You've got the dark eyes and 63 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,080 that, you know, you're, you're kind of stretching the large 64 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,120 hoping not to put another letter in front of it. 65 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,120 All of that stuff's going on. And I just looked at myself and 66 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,040 thought that's not the pattern I want to be. 67 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,160 And at the same time, I was still running, you know, like 68 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,760 the 2030 male weeks, but nothing serious. 69 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,560 But I was obviously I was outpacing my running with my 70 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,160 consumption and my bad habits, my life habits and stuff. 71 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:26,320 So I decided to get back and running proper roundabout then. 72 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:27,640 So what what you'll be talking about here? 73 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,800 We're talking 2000 and 2011 and 2012. 74 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,880 And I set myself the goal in 2012 of beating every PB. 75 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,280 I won't. That's what I wanted to do now. 76 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:39,960 But that's point. I'll give you some context. 77 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:44,200 My marathon PB was about 3:45. Going into this, I'm not even 78 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,880 sure if I'd run under 20 minutes for 5K, Not sure if I'd I'd run 79 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,320 under. I don't think I'd run under 90 80 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,360 minutes for 1/2 marathon. So it wasn't fast. 81 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,480 I was just your average dual runner. 82 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,880 But what I wanted to do was I used the the idea of personal 83 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:01,440 best as the carrot for the stick of the training. 84 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:04,120 And it was 2012 was going to be the year of the PB. 85 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,440 I'd never heard the Vultra marathons at this point. 86 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,880 I'll tell you about my ultra marathon origin story at some 87 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,760 point. And I just went after it, lost 88 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,400 weight, got faster, lost a bit more weight, got a bit faster, 89 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,400 broke or broke PBS. By the first half of 2012, had 90 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,320 broken all the PBS. And I was like, well, in the 91 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,000 second-half of the year, let's do the same again. 92 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,320 And I brought all PBS twice and, and, and it was just, and I was 93 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:28,920 just getting into it then that was me. 94 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,480 That was what got me. So it obviously always run. 95 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,040 But when you talk about running, it's kind of, you know, when you 96 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,080 talk about out, when did you first go out or when do you go 97 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,600 out out? So the difference between going 98 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,320 to the pub and going to the nightclub for me, there's two 99 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,000 sites that are running. There was running for leisure 100 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,720 and then there was running, running when I discovered 101 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,320 getting fat, getting faster. And then I discovered ultra 102 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,320 running, which all happened in around this period, but it all 103 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,760 stemmed from this picture of me going seen this picture of me 104 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,880 and thinking that is not the role model I want to be for my 105 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:01,480 kids, who you'd be delighted to hear through that inspiring 106 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,280 change in my life. Never run. 107 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,640 So hey, was it worthwhile? Yeah. 108 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:13,000 So you said if you decide to go out out, yeah, I out out for a 109 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,880 runner is racing I'm guessing or for some people that's just 110 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:23,280 going out for a run. For you, what was, what do you 111 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:26,840 class as your first race? You know my first race. 112 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,080 Take take school aside. So your first race as an adult 113 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,720 where you can had to pay for an entry rate. 114 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,720 So let's use that as the first race. 115 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,880 Don't ask me what year this was. This was this is before I went 116 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,160 out. So I was just I was just a 117 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,640 Ledger runner. But Mina, me and my mate put a 118 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,360 bet on the racing each other tank. 119 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,960 It was a tanky. It was in Strathclyde Park down 120 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,840 in Motherwell, Hamilton and the bet was, is let's let's see who 121 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,640 can run the fastest. And honestly, the training for 122 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,080 it was, I mean, the training for it was a disaster. 123 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:00,760 No idea what we were doing. It was, I think it's just Saint 124 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,480 Andrew's Hospice 10K and the 2 is going to this race. 125 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,400 And I think I think I maybe ran about 4546 minutes in this race 126 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:09,120 rate. I get beat. 127 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,480 Just for context, 25 bet got beat and I must have talked 128 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,920 about four times. I had no idea how to pace. 129 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,440 You know, that way you're running. 130 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,200 You're like, right, OK, I'm going to belt the first 131 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,840 kilometer and you're up there and you're kind of talk 10 or 20 132 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,560 and you're like, am I going to do this for another 40 minutes? 133 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:27,960 I know what I'll do. I'll walk. 134 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,080 So I must have walked three or four times and that and then 135 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,040 make after that. The first marathon I ran would 136 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,240 have been a couple of years after that, which was in 137 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,400 Rotterdam and it was like 4 1/2 hours to run that marathon. 138 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,600 But that was my first ever race and I didn't get the bug for, 139 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:43,800 for that. From that I didn't go, Oh my 140 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,040 God, I must do races. It was just like, right, OK, we 141 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,600 went from there straight into Glasgow. 142 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,000 Guess where we ended up? We ended up in a Wetherspoons, 143 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:51,920 which I would never frequent now, but that's a whole 144 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,680 different story. And a Wetherspoons eating ham, 145 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,080 egg and chips and drinking beer. So that was that was my first 146 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,440 race experience. And James, when you were saying 147 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,080 about you went out out and started to really get into the 148 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,760 race and then your goal was to beat your own PBS, aside from 149 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,200 what I would imagine taking your training a little bit more 150 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,640 seriously, was it diet as well? Was it the whole lifestyle you 151 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,640 upturned? Yeah, so and it was an 152 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,760 increments and this isn't important for for anyone 153 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,560 listening, right. A really important lesson in all 154 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,160 of this is, is the way I, the way I think about any kind of 155 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,480 performance, whether it's now a work from a work point of view 156 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:36,000 and study or in running on life is, is kind of classic what they 157 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,799 want to achieve in the near term, what they want to achieve 158 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:41,480 in the long term. So you kind of think about your 159 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,400 kind of strategic intent. My strategic intent in all of 160 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,560 this was to lose weight was to get fit and be a role model, 161 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:50,720 right? My vehicle to do that was to go 162 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,080 into running. But then obviously that 163 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,240 strategic intent changes because I'm like, hold on a minute. 164 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,480 And I remember a mate saying to me, like a few months after I 165 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,320 started losing weight, he actually said to me, you know, 166 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,480 he's got phrase where I used to run with him at lunchtime at 167 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,200 work. And his exact phrase was, you 168 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:10,880 know, I think if you lost the beef, you'd actually be OK at 169 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,760 running. And how inspiring is that, 170 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:14,920 right? I mean, that's, that's like, 171 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,840 that is the most Scottish way of trying to inspire someone is 172 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,840 like, if you weren't so fat, you'd be all right. 173 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,080 So. So I was like, yeah, let's do 174 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,160 that. So yeah, I started to watch what 175 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,000 I was eating, not only consuming less, you know, that kind of 176 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,000 classic, you know, getting a calorific deficit, lose a bit of 177 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,560 weight. It was actually eating the right 178 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:37,720 food because my whole diet basically was just 179 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,200 carbohydrates, chiefly pizza and chips. 180 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,440 That was my diet all through my young adult life. 181 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,880 So started to discover things like salads. 182 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:49,840 These are amazing things. It was like the food you could 183 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,360 eat that was green, that wasn't an apple. 184 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,040 So yeah, I made an effort to eat, to eat better, Nikki, but 185 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,440 even not in itself turned out because I, I, I, I went later in 186 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,000 my running career, but 1012 years ago I moved to being 187 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,280 vegetarian because I didn't really like meeting stuff 188 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:05,880 anyway. But I realized moving to 189 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,000 vegetarian forced me to be more adventurous and, and, and more 190 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,160 considerable about the food I would eat because I had to think 191 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,800 about where I was getting my proteins from and you know, how 192 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,800 to fill my plate up and all that kind of good stuff. 193 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:18,840 So yeah, that was a big part of it. 194 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,840 And, and lifestyle as well. I, I have always travelled a lot 195 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,480 with work and back then I've travelled a lot. 196 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,440 But even just thinking about things that prioritize and sleep 197 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,960 and deprioritize and some of the other things you would do. 198 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,120 Because look, I'm a firm believer and you can do and you 199 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,600 can achieve almost anything you want in life, but it will 200 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,280 generally be to the detriment of something else you want to do. 201 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,800 So you have to make a sacrifice. You can't do everything. 202 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,680 And we talk about my running later, I'll talk about how I'm 203 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:50,760 having to make conscious sacrifice and not and that's OK. 204 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,200 But at least if it's their consciousness or decision, you 205 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,080 don't then resent it and actually embrace it. 206 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,360 So yeah, that first year for me was lose weight, eat better, 207 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,760 drink less, sleep better, train better and then recent started 208 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:04,680 to become semi compulsive about them. 209 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:10,800 And throughout your career you've done lots of races, but 210 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,280 the other thing that you've done that Nikki said in the intro was 211 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,320 FK keys are fastest known times. You've done quite a number of 212 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,800 them, yeah. Do you want, if you got any 213 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,920 highlights of them and do you prefer to do something like 214 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,800 that? What do you get out of that or 215 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,400 what do you get out of racing? What's the difference? 216 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,800 You know, Mike, I am. I think if you ask that question 217 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,320 10 years ago, five years ago and now, you'd possibly get 3 218 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,960 different answers and that's OK. That's something else that you 219 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,640 listen. It's like you don't have to be 220 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,720 wedded to an identity or whether to a preference or whether to a 221 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,880 thought and and and again that that's OK. 222 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:54,560 So when I first started getting into ultra running, it was all 223 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:57,240 about the experience. It was organized events and the 224 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,720 kind of social sphere, meeting others, doing something, pushing 225 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,200 the boundaries of your own self limits. 226 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,000 You don't sometimes your own self-imposed limits. 227 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,120 It's like, can I even do this? That's the most exciting thing 228 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,680 as an ultra runners to go. Can I even do this? 229 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,040 Because most of us do that. You think about standing on 230 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,080 startling near the West Highland Way and you're standing there by 231 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,800 another couple 100 people, but every single one of them is 232 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,080 doing something that the vast majority of the population 233 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:22,600 wouldn't even conceive as possible. 234 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,320 But some things in that social circle impossible is normalized. 235 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:27,760 And I think that's a really good thing. 236 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,120 It's a really, really good thing. 237 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,360 So at the outset, racing, racing, racing. 238 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,920 And then as I moved in a running for Scotland and Great Britain, 239 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,440 it was all about for me, it was those events. 240 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:39,360 It was like I never dreamed of being able to do that. 241 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,360 So those experiences became really important. 242 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,120 So you went from racing to experiences, even though the 243 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,120 experiences were racing the way I would look at a West Highland 244 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,800 wave versus our GBE or Scotland Vestas. 245 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,520 I've got, I've got a race that I'm wholly accountable for now, 246 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,640 moving into being in a team and having an experience and in a 247 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,280 competition slightly different. And then the FK TS for me were 248 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,440 all about self and adventure. And if you ask me now mate, I'll 249 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,000 look back and I've got everyone over them. 250 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,000 I'd rate 10 out of 10. Love every one of them. 251 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,080 But the thing that if you ask me what I'd want to do more of 252 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,960 going forward, adventures and FKTS every day of the week don't 253 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,960 I don't really care for racing anymore, not that bothered about 254 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,720 it. And and I've had amazing 255 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,400 experiences running for my country, but I'm also I'm also 256 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,840 aging out a wee bit. So that's OK to put that behind 257 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,080 me. But nothing will ever take away 258 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,920 the opportunity to do adventures and FKTS And that's that's 259 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,640 what's in front of me. They just thought, see your mate 260 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,640 that had the backhanded compliment of you'd be all right 261 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,640 if you weren't so fat. Yeah. 262 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,760 It was try to be nice. What does he say now that you 263 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:52,560 have represented your country? How do you feel about that He. 264 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,800 I mean, he, this guy is an exceptionally nice, great guy 265 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,680 and a really good friend. And I've been really lucky and 266 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,360 that all my friends had before running outside the running 267 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,480 sphere are still all my friends today. 268 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,800 And there's a massive sense of pride and, and warmth and 269 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,920 encouragement from that group, both in terms of knowing someone 270 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,040 who's done that, but also knowing that they've been part 271 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,560 of my life as part of that. And speak to him some things and 272 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,680 it comes up and he, he genuinely, he'll show pride and 273 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,920 joy. And I think how good is it that 274 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,200 you can share that with others as well? 275 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,880 And he's just an incredible guy. And he was 100% right as well, 276 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,520 right, Even though he could have maybe freezed it slightly, Yeah. 277 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,440 Has he got anything to say to you now that you're you're not 278 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:50,280 what you were then, but you're still there's, there's always 279 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,440 room for improvement. Is there anything that you think 280 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:58,520 he would say to you now? I think he, I mean, I actually 281 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,760 was speaking to him a couple of weeks ago because we were out 282 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:05,240 there on an event and then we we were talking about it and he's a 283 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,600 few years older than me. And he what, what he said to me 284 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,800 make was his, his life. He said I'm a few years older 285 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:13,760 than you. When we ran together, we it was 286 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,840 like we were the same biological age, but it's no likely you like 287 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,160 you're 10 years younger than me. And it says and it's it's kind 288 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,880 of same inspired him. He's got a couple of younger 289 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,320 kids in mind and it's inspired him to say, well, actually what 290 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,480 he said to me was actually what I think I can't do today. 291 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,160 I probably can, he says, but I just need to get my finger out 292 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,640 my thing at the back of me and then I can go on with it. 293 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,160 But he's genuinely all all all I get from people that are 294 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,080 genuinely kindness. And it's sometimes a really 295 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,920 humbling sense of awe. And that's hard to say with a 296 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,160 lick. Oh my God, I can't believe you 297 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,120 did that. And I'm like, you should try of 298 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,520 living it. I can't believe it either. 299 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,880 And that sentiments reverse, James, because people, anyone 300 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,840 that knows you within the running community describes you 301 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:01,800 as one of life's good guys. What do you think it is about 302 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,920 the community or yourself that shapes that reputation? 303 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,920 Let's talk about the community and start with that is and and I 304 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,200 can genuinely say this, I think you could count on one hand the 305 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,080 number number of disagreeable people you've ever met, I've 306 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,160 ever met with and particularly the Scottish shelter in the 307 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:23,760 community. So I'm going to focus on that. 308 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,800 And I've made great friendships with some people. 309 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,000 I've passed through friendships with some people and I just make 310 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,520 acquaintances with some people. And I know and over of of all of 311 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,440 them, there has never been something when I regret that 312 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,240 moment with that individual. And even people that you maybe 313 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,560 meet at race, you share a podium with me, you never speak to or 314 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,720 see again. You think we shared something 315 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,240 now and what, what you've got with the, the, the ultra London 316 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,800 community that I think affords what you've just said to be true 317 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:53,760 of the vast majority of people. You can say, oh, that's what 318 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,640 people say about me. I think that's what you would 319 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,040 say about most people within the community. 320 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,440 And I think the, the community itself has this level of 321 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,680 humility and camaraderie that means that. 322 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,560 And it's almost that kind of quintessential Scottish thing. 323 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,720 But is if you get too big for your boots, the community would 324 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,400 probably put you back in line anyway. 325 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,200 And it probably has with some people who've maybe done that in 326 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,960 the past, right? But what it will do is it will 327 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,920 celebrate make running through a tunnel for, I don't know, 328 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,359 however many days it felt like celebrate people running 268 329 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,440 miles across Scotland. It will celebrate when we're 330 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,359 doing the pilot endeavour because people look at it and 331 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,400 just go, these people are just doing stuff we love and 332 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,320 inspiring us to do more of the stuff we love. 333 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,560 So I think the community creates the impression, not the 334 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,800 individuals, but I think the individuals become an output of 335 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,200 that community. However, what, what I would say 336 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,040 to that is, is I think you have to make a conscious effort as 337 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,400 you do become and and make you've gone through this is what 338 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,480 you know, when you've won the backyards and you've represented 339 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,520 Scotland and stuff at them. There's a sense of 340 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,320 responsibility that says, well, the communities are being part 341 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,480 of your journey to this point, kinda. 342 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,080 You should give back if that's what you thought in here. 343 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,960 What you thought in here is a community service, right? 344 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:07,480 Where you're giving back to the community. 345 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,040 Yeah, it's a podcast. Yeah. 346 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,000 It gives you something to do. It's a nice project and stuff. 347 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,000 But there's people out there that you will never ever hear 348 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,040 from who are inspired by the words, the words you see every 349 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,760 week. That's what you give back. 350 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,120 And if you run, if you live your life with that kind of level of 351 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:27,440 spirit and curiosity and humility, then I think what 352 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,920 you've just described and never all outcome from you, me, them, 353 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:31,920 everybody. And that's how I can attend to 354 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,880 live my life. Because when I was younger, I 355 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,080 was probably more angry is not the right phrase. 356 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,120 But I used to get annoyed by things that I used to react 357 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:42,360 because we all do, right? Whether it's on social media or 358 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:44,040 whether it's in one to one conversations. 359 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,640 And then I realized as I got older, the vast majority of 360 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,520 people don't care for most of that, you know, and actually 361 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,520 what people really want to do is just live a life where they 362 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,360 smile more than they cry. And if you can do that through 363 00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:00,840 our own community or, or through the interactions you have, then 364 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,840 you can be part of creating that rather than being someone who 365 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,080 details it. And the Scottish cultural 366 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:07,920 learning community, I genuinely, you look at the people who 367 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,480 volunteered races, you could turn up to any ultra and you 368 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,600 will see you could probably have a bingo card with about 20-30 369 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,480 names on it. And you'll have four corners 370 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,600 within an hour and you'll have a full lane within an hour and a 371 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,280 half and you'll have a full house by the end of it. 372 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,120 And I think that's a beautiful thing. 373 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,080 Thank you for saying that, James. 374 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,280 I appreciate that you think that we do. 375 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:33,880 We're, we're just doing it because we enjoy it. 376 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,800 And if anybody else enjoys it, then great. 377 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,040 And and the second that from Mike, I just get to learn a lot 378 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,560 as well. I get to speak to really cool 379 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,920 people like yourself. Was that right? 380 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,080 And you mentioned about community, a community that you 381 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,440 are part of is the pylon community, and it's got an 382 00:19:54,440 --> 00:20:01,480 identity of hard graft being out there for people. 383 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,560 What does being involved in the pylon community mean to you? 384 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:11,520 Yeah, I mean, I look, obviously Paul Gablin is they cannot, he's 385 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,360 synonymous with Pylon. But Paul tell you, Paul Gablin 386 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:16,960 the person and Pylon the brand are two different people, but 387 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,520 they're kind of like a Venn, Venn diagram that is obviously a 388 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:24,440 significant crossover, right? And, and sometimes some people 389 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,960 because of Paul being so synonymous with, it's kind of 390 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,880 like fudging and Richard Branson, right? 391 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,040 Sometimes you can be hard to split them. 392 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:38,280 But the without Paul Gablin, I would never have got to even say 393 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:39,920 anywhere near the level I wanted to. 394 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,360 And the story is in 2014, Paul had just embarked on coaching, 395 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,400 right? In 2014. 396 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,880 I'd gone through the 2012 and 2013 years. 397 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:56,680 And when I'm getting pretty OK at this and in 20 and about 398 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,440 October, November 2014, I got introduced to Paul Otis and you 399 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,520 Paul throughs W England way winds and stuff and what have 400 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,360 you. And it was like I'm starting 401 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:05,840 coaching. Do you want to give it a goal? 402 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,880 And I immediately jumped into that and it was exactly what I 403 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,000 needed, exactly the right time with from from exactly the right 404 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,680 person. And if you want to talk about 405 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,280 how luck and serendipity and all that plays a part, that was that 406 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,760 for me. But we've got a lot, Paul and I 407 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,840 are extremely different, but very aligned and a lot of 408 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,200 things. And it's back to that point 409 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,480 about the community. We're really aligned on, you 410 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,560 know, how you show up, how you should be and all that stuff. 411 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,880 But we're also really aligned on like you have to put the effort 412 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,240 and you have to, you have to follow through on your your 413 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:39,880 promises if you want to reach a potential. 414 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,120 There's no point in saying I'm going to achieve this and then 415 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:43,920 not take the action that helps you get there. 416 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,480 And being involved with pylon has been such an, it's like the 417 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,160 kind of bedrock and foundation of my ultra running career. 418 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,240 Without it, I wouldn't be here. It means everything to me. 419 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,000 I've been involved in it now for this is the 12th year and I 420 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,960 couldn't imagine not be. And I've met amazing people 421 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,440 through that as well, whether it's the kind of run by pylon 422 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,120 events, the people we've coached, the people who've 423 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:10,600 supported the, the work we've done. 424 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,320 But the endeavour's been such a big part of it. 425 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,120 And it's like it, it means the world. 426 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,200 And for me, piling could be like Hotel California. 427 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,240 I might stop running and I might check out of running, but I'll 428 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,120 never be able to leave piling because it's piling would have 429 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:30,200 to leave me in order for me and piling to be split apart. 430 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,000 And so it's really important. And that's not just Paul, 431 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,200 although he's a big part of it's the people you've met through as 432 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:41,160 well, Mike. And with the pylon community and 433 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:46,040 the brand does this idea that there's a lot of exclusive and 434 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,440 phenomenal athletes. And that's from my own judgement 435 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,840 before I came on the run with you guys in Boxing Day 2023, I 436 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,000 think it was, it was Ross Beveridge that said to me, 437 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,000 there's going to be this run, why don't you go along naked? 438 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,760 And I says no, because I'll get outrun left for bed and they'll 439 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,760 probably lap me about four times. 440 00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:11,000 And he's like, no, on you go. It says for everyone, you don't 441 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,360 need to be part of the pylon. You don't need to be a paying 442 00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:15,240 athlete. On you go. 443 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,720 It's a social run. And obviously Ross was right. 444 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,840 You guys looked after me really, really well to the point you 445 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,280 were grabbing my Salomon pack for the 12A10 mile run. 446 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,120 I think it was on the ice liquor. 447 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,160 That's who, you know, toddler was Anyway, my question off of 448 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,920 the back of This is why is it you think people get this 449 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:43,880 impression the pylon seem like professional or elite or, you 450 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,520 know, insert, you know, an adjective. 451 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,120 It's it's a really interesting question. 452 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:51,400 I remember that day, Nikki. I remember you like, and it's 453 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,560 also you've got to remember, like, you know, there's there's 454 00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,080 facts and interpretation, right? So an interpretation doesn't 455 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,480 meet the facts. And that's essentially what 456 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,280 you've just said, right. And I remember that day you were 457 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,320 sitting in your car down at the boathouse and Aucken Starry and 458 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,200 you'd messaged me to say you were coming along and and it was 459 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,120 icy, remember, because that was having grabbed your pack because 460 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:17,040 make you want to see the Nikki, the neck of Nikki trying to run 461 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,800 down this house. But we ran up the tack me down 462 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,880 because the following year I was going to do 100 tack me down. 463 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,640 So I was like, I'll just run it on Boxing Day and it was about 464 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,960 6678910 of us, whatever it was, we just Boxing Day up the hill, 465 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,480 but it was AC up the top and it's just tarmac and there's no 466 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,760 real option to get off the road. So you have to follow the tarmac 467 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,360 path down unless you want it on through fields that are like leg 468 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:42,560 breaking stuff. And I remember you've been quite 469 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,680 anxious before the start and even being anxious is part of 470 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,520 it. And I'm like back to the point, 471 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:50,440 Nikki, the only person here who cares about you being anxious is 472 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,240 you. Everyone else is whatever. 473 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:53,720 This is great. Look at Nikki doing her first 474 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,360 ever attacked me doing and come and running. 475 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:57,720 It's like it's back to this, the community thing. 476 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,160 But one thing that Pilon doesn't do, and I think it plays into 477 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,920 this interpretation is is and Paul's never been one for it. 478 00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,640 And and I think it's both these credit and some might even say 479 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,800 it's like it might be his detriment is he's never been 480 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,200 someone who's been in and said, oh, look at this. 481 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,440 We've got Rod, Jane and Freddie running this race and we've got 482 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,680 Jeffrey Bond goes up here doing this. 483 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,240 Here's some pictures and lighten up the socials where everyone is 484 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,480 a pilot athlete. He's always had the view that if 485 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,920 you want to Share your story and that's your story to share, 486 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,680 we're not going to try and be we're not going to try and be 487 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,600 the lead athlete for you. Other people do it differently. 488 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,080 Other people are really happy. Some people would want you to do 489 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,280 that for them. So there's no criticism about 490 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:36,600 what's right and what's wrong in that. 491 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,960 And some people find there's the meaning and belonging elsewhere. 492 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,960 So they cannot they can approach Paul's always had is they have 493 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,200 this quiet humility. And what that therefore means is 494 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,720 the results that tend to make the way to the top of the big 495 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,680 ones. And you go, oh, there's another 496 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,760 big one. There's Rob Turner became 497 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,600 Scottish and British champion, you know, like, oh, big one, 498 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,680 there's Grant McDonald made the 24 hour team, blah, blah, blah. 499 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:02,920 And then you go, there's Jim shooting a lot. 500 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,640 They're all the coaches. They you must need to be 501 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,520 amazing. And I've literally had people 502 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,360 saying to me, would you be OK coaching and running my ability? 503 00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:11,040 And I'm like, are you kidding me? 504 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,440 The best, the best coaching experiences I've had have been 505 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,120 with people who have gone from running 20 miles a week to 506 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,280 running an ultra marathon for the first time. 507 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,480 It's not the one in that matters. 508 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,680 It sticks. It's the experiences and it's 509 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,720 something, I think it's something that's kind of, I 510 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,920 think it's an, it's an unfair interpretation, but it's an 511 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,360 understandable one. But if you speak with Paul, it's 512 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:39,040 like, I would say 90% of the pylon athletes are just ordinary 513 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,120 everyday athletes and some of them want to be in a community. 514 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:46,080 But it's no fuss. No, no van, no fuss, no cheer, 515 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,200 no, you know, no drama. I just got on with. 516 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,640 And other people want to be in social communities where it's 517 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,360 like we celebrate everything together. 518 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,200 And again, that's fine. Yeah. 519 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,840 I get what you're saying with being ordinary, James, but I'm 520 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,280 going to stop you there. I don't think any of these are 521 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,240 ordinary. I think you're all nuts for how 522 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,280 fast you're on. But I know what you mean. 523 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,600 It's, you know, when I've been on any socials, I've never felt 524 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,000 anything but welcome. So if there's anything in the 525 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,640 future, and I really hope there is going to be things coming up 526 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,240 soon, I would say to anyone go along because it's like, it's 527 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,840 just a good laugh. I totally agree with you and 528 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,560 it's exactly what Paul wants to do. 529 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,320 Paul Paul's, he's living up in the canal. 530 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,440 He's not far from your neck of the woods make he's over on the 531 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,160 other side of the countries, over the Inverness side. 532 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,720 And I'm sure as he settles in there into the summit, I'm sure 533 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,840 there will be some things that he's cooking up. 534 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:44,560 So keep an eye out. And you mentioned Endeavour of 535 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,880 races and stuff like that. What services, as they were, do 536 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,280 Pylon provide and how would somebody get involved? 537 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,600 So the best thing is look up pylon on socials, right? 538 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,520 Paul will do and Paul and the coaches at at Pylon, you'll get, 539 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,160 there's a variety of things that they offer, right? 540 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:07,400 A good place to start if you haven't. 541 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,680 This is the Pylon podcast. There's like such a bad catalog 542 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,880 of stuff there. My favorite ones that we've done 543 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,360 have been when we've done kind of kind of sprints and lessons, 544 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,400 we've done kind of structured lessons over kind of 6 to 8 545 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,240 weeks. They're usually 10 to 20 minutes 546 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,160 long. And the really good way of kind 547 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,280 of honing in and going deep on a topic. 548 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,040 If you start there, go to pile and talk to me at pile and dot 549 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,280 dot coms is the e-mail address where Paul picked that up, but 550 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,560 kind of offers their kind of weekly coaching when you got 551 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:39,280 refresh coaching every week and all the some monthly and there's 552 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,440 also some, you know, structures will build our coaching plan. 553 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,880 It was your race. But Paul also does is is 554 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,560 something he started recently. One Paul is an exceptionally 555 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,000 talented and creative individual. 556 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,040 If you follow his his YouTube stories and stuff, they're quite 557 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,720 deep and personal and it's something he's been embracing 558 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,600 since he was in New Zealand a couple of years ago. 559 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,760 And the sub stack is really good as well and very thoughtful. 560 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,240 And Paul sees himself, it's not a brand thing. 561 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,800 He just sees himself occupying a different corner of the Ultram 562 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,680 Ultra Matter market. And see, you know, there's 563 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,560 amazing people out there like other people. 564 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,240 I look up to see someone like Damien Hall. 565 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,240 He's very gregarious. He's very proud of his his 566 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,480 campaign and he likes to tell his stories. 567 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,320 He's made his living through journalism and he's making his 568 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,680 living through journalism and Ultra run. 569 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,720 So he fuses them together, very different people, but both just 570 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,600 remarkable humans doing remarkable things. 571 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:39,200 Something you mentioned earlier was you are vegetarian on a 572 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,720 daily basis, You are vegetarian during the races. 573 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:48,680 What kind of food do you have and well, what kind of it's 574 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,160 obviously vegetarian because that's what we're just talking 575 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,040 about. What do you normally eat on a 576 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,480 day-to-day basis? On a on a day-to-day basis. 577 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,040 So when I'm in lawn training more that from like a 16 week 578 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,480 block and I want to get lean, mean and ready for the race. 579 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,360 I'm very thoughtful about what every day make. 580 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,600 And some days I'm eating the same thing two or three days in 581 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,200 a row, right. I'm I'm not one of these. 582 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,920 I'm not someone who's ever going to go Tom's catching and go look 583 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,000 at that. I've just the 16. 584 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,520 I'm like, I could get that in 15 minutes and been on my way and 585 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,000 let's kind of like approach aid stations. 586 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,720 Why am I sitting in a restaurant for three hours? 587 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,000 And it's like, enjoy the experience. 588 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,480 I'm like you kitten. So I'm, I'm very, I'm a very 589 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,760 kind of practically. So I think about and when I'm 590 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,800 kind of planning my, you know, I tend to think about it and can 591 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,960 afford blocks of the day kind of morning, mid morning to lunch, 592 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,120 lunch to dinner and then dinner beyond. 593 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,560 I very rarely eat after like 7:00 at night because I'm up 594 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,440 early the next morning and but I'm up early. 595 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,200 So I eat, I eat early, but usually in the morning. 596 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,600 I'm always thinking about every time I eat, I'm thinking I want 597 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:58,640 to make sure there's protein in there. 598 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,680 I want to make sure there's carbohydrates in there. 599 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,280 I want to make sure that there's some good nutrients within there 600 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,760 as well, and ideally some calcium as well. 601 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,880 There are four things I'm always thinking about making sure that 602 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,280 in each of those four blocks, I don't measure things, I don't 603 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,040 track calories and I don't go right. 604 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,840 I've only had 34 grams of protein and I wanted 36. 605 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,200 What am I going to do now? I don't know. 606 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,160 I'll just consume tofu. Yeah, die. 607 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,760 But I think along those lines. And it's worked really well for 608 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,280 me because one, I mean, I've not had a day off work sick since 609 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,640 1998. So I tend to keep really healthy 610 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,920 through the through that. And and then what I'll tend to 611 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,000 do is, is I always try to make sure that in my evening meal, 612 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,680 unless it's the day before, the long run, it's kind of leading 613 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,400 with salad. So I'm getting loads of nutrient 614 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,400 within that. And I mean, I don't know, but 615 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:48,760 you 2 right? Sometimes you're sitting there 616 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,080 eating a massive salad and Louise will serve it to me. 617 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,840 Louise, that's my wife. She'll serve it to me saying a 618 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,720 pasta bowl, right? So it's like a giant salad. 619 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,840 I'm like, I need, I need a day off for it to eat a salad that's 620 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,560 so big. But you know, it's just really 621 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,320 good for you. And then I'll have something 622 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,600 like a Greek yogurt with fruit or something like that after it 623 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,320 to get me those good nutrients, get me the calcium, get me the 624 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:09,840 protein. And I need to be really 625 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,240 conscious of that. But I've like, I've got the kind 626 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,400 of way that I eaten those is almost there every day. 627 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,600 I've got eggs, nut butter, nuts through Greek yogurt. 628 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,040 I'm getting all my protein through that. 629 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,000 I'll be making sure there's some protein derivatives in any salad 630 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,360 or any other food I've got. Cheese is obviously a big 631 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,000 friend. But the big thing about becoming 632 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,280 vegetarian make with the meals that you and I do, it is I need 633 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,880 to make sure I'm getting protein back and otherwise I'm going to, 634 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,560 I'm going to end up injured constantly. 635 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,680 So that's how I approach that when it comes to racing. 636 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:41,720 I wish I could say I've got like I've got. 637 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,400 I've never, never managed to nail a nutrition plan in a race 638 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,200 ever, ever, ever. And anyone who does, I'm so 639 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,200 jealous of you. I know people who could 640 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,960 basically eat the leg off a table and not like, yeah, that's 641 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,240 fine. I'll just, I'll get on with it. 642 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,120 And I'm like, my God, sometimes I've I've run 24 hour races, 100 643 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,960 mile races where I'm, I am surviving on Pringles and flat 644 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,280 coke for the last 7 hours. So but for me it's just sugar 645 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,760 generates sugar, sugar, sugar. Just get sugar in as much as 646 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,000 possible and try and get something in itself, the stomach 647 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,600 ginger and all of that. Well, you won't want to hear 648 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,240 that. The race coming up that I've got 649 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:28,480 the end of March, I've got a 80 hour plan every hour. 88 years, 650 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,800 is that how long is what's? Is that a backyard? 651 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,280 Backyard. I don't know how long the risk 652 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,360 going to last but I'm planning for 80 plus. 653 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,600 Yeah, see, I think a backyard. So I've toyed back and forward. 654 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,680 I think I've maybe missed the boat on the backyard because I 655 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,360 looked at them when they were forced around, but I'm still 656 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,080 running 20 fours at that point. And then so my idea at the back, 657 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,720 I probably wanted to make you. You're the master of this. 658 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,280 So you're more better than me. What put me off in the early 659 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,760 days of the backyard was and just you talking about that. 660 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,560 So different noses. I'd hate to prepare for an 8 661 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,600 year race and then then that, you know, you only get an 662 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,640 assessed up to 26 hours and you're like, what we're going to 663 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,520 do with all this food and all this training. 664 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,360 But I always thought that that's the perfect nutrition event 665 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,120 because you've always got that little 10 minute stop refuel 666 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,600 thing going on and you're not feeling, you feel a different 667 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,000 pressure, of course, until you realize that eating every hour 668 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,800 is actually quite hard, right? It's actually hard to eat every 669 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,320 hour. And then for your body to 670 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,800 process that. I mean, we all know your body's 671 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,280 processed and it's either going up and out the mouth or it's 672 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,440 going down and out the back. And it's really hard because you 673 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,320 need to add in both your toilet and your consumption and all 674 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,040 that to it. So I'm fascinated by how these 675 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,520 Belgians and you know what Carlosaba, and not how they 676 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,639 manage this because what, what's the world record for the 677 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,400 backyard now? Because eight years that would 678 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:50,760 be, that would be a British record, right? 679 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,159 Eight years. No 95 is a British record. 680 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,400 Oh my God. And 119 is a world record a. 681 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,720 119, so that's basically 5 days And where is this one make? 682 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:06,120 Where are you going for that? Sherwood. 683 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,520 Forest, Sherwood Forest, right? OK, eight years. 684 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,920 So there's going to be good athletes there, right? 685 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,880 So that's what you need to write because when backyards for 686 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,720 started up here, the likes of you were like, you were the one 687 00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:19,040 pushing the limit. So people were you're hoping 688 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,520 people can push the assist. You know, you've gone from being 689 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,000 the assist, you've gone from being assisted to maybe being 690 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,640 assisted, which is a really cool thing, but you're chasing people 691 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,120 down there instead of being the guy that you're just looking for 692 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,000 someone to do one more lap with. Pretty cool. 693 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,240 Yeah. I have a question as well for 694 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:37,680 you Mike. Sorry James, this is your 695 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,600 interview we're now bombarding Mike with. 696 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,560 How many cans of soup are you taking with you? 697 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,280 I don't know if you're aware about this James, but Mike has 698 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,240 an act of opening a cold can of soup and just sinking it. 699 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,840 So how many in the 80 hour plan are we taking? 700 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,720 It's usually about four or five a day. 701 00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,840 Yeah, but let's be honest about it, right? 702 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,080 Make us the absolutely right thing because you get the salt 703 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,240 or not. Soup is just baby food. 704 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,360 And I can right? That's all it is. 705 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,040 And I love like seeing an ultra like a like a tomato tomato soup 706 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,160 because like a Hayden's tomato soup, none of this fancy stuff, 707 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,560 you know, get my Heinz tomato soup with all that salt and all 708 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,360 that sugar and all that vadnais in it. 709 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,200 That is perfect for an ultra. You're absolutely right to go 710 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,280 down that route like. I'm glad. 711 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,360 That James, you can, you can say that you can lie to your brain. 712 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,120 Say yes, that's gazpacho. Like we can reason with that, 713 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,720 like chunky bro. Oh no. 714 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,520 And I think I'm going to say the community is going to agree with 715 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,720 me on that one. I am glad that I've found 716 00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:41,680 somebody that actually understands it. 717 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,000 There you go, There you go. See. 718 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,480 Make an eye on the same wavelength. 719 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,720 So can we can we go back to interviewing James now? 720 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,280 Yeah, Mike, stop making this about you, Mike. 721 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,480 So James, when you look back at everything you've done and as a 722 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,880 law, I would imagine you've probably forgotten quite a lot 723 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,640 of it as well. This is 24 hour events. 724 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,600 FKTS. If I was asked this question I 725 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,800 would probably find it quite difficult to answer if I was 726 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,000 you. What's a story that still makes 727 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:25,880 you smile? Still makes me smile, You know, 728 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:28,800 I mean, I could, yeah. There's, there's so much you 729 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,240 could, you could pick out here, like, let's cut, dive in a 730 00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:34,920 couple of things. Probably the previous there was, 731 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,880 was getting a Scotland vest, right, An old one for Britain's 732 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,640 like a bigger pinnacle. But for, for me, I'm fiercely 733 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,040 patriotic, fiercely Scottish. And if you offered me one or the 734 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:45,480 other, it'd be the Scotland best everything. 735 00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:47,920 Yeah. And I don't mind saying that. 736 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,200 And it's not like jingoistic or nationalistic. 737 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,120 It's just that's, that's my roots. 738 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,520 That's, that's who I'm that's. And when I did that, I thought 739 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,320 that was, that was me. I'd made it. 740 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,240 And that was, I think it was 2016. 741 00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:01,040 It was the first time I ran for Scotland. 742 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,680 And that makes me smile, the thought of actually getting to 743 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,240 that point. I remember, look, the nerves 744 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,600 waiting to be told whether it was going to be selected because 745 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,640 I knew it was in consideration and like checking your phone to 746 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,960 see if Adrian thought had sent a message. 747 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,400 And every day, like, right, OK, you said it would be this week. 748 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,360 And obviously, Adrian being Adrian, sometimes things are 749 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,120 just slightly slower than he kind of promises you because 750 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,960 he's such a good guy. And like, I could tell you some 751 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,720 stories about Adrian, but that that was probably the thing I'm 752 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,440 most proud of. The thing that makes me smile is 753 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,440 is when I when I won Rocket recruit in America and we'll 754 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,280 tell you this, this story, my brother and my dad came over 755 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,480 with us. So my dad's been a lot of this 756 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,760 stuff with us, hugely encouraging. 757 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,680 And we were in Texas, right? So nobody knew who I was over 758 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,000 there and in that race, right? Just put some context. 759 00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:00,480 She'd Zack Batter, you had Ronnie Delser, you had Mario 760 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,480 Macius. There's a few hours. 761 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,960 I mean, you had 50 mile world record holder, the 100 mile 762 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,600 world record holder. There's a whole bunch of other 763 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,760 people. And then I'm rocking up this 764 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,000 week in a chubby guy from Croy. How's everybody going? 765 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:16,760 They're like, who invited the French guy? 766 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,520 And I'm, I'm not French, I'm from Scotland. 767 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,280 I just sound French to LeMond, you know? 768 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,040 And they're all walking about, you know, kind of carrying 769 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,720 because I'm in Texas. Everybody's got back, genuinely. 770 00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:28,880 It's like stereotypes, big hats, guns and all that stuff. 771 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,080 That's what he's like. And me, my brother and my dad 772 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,280 are there. And the, the, the, the rocket 773 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,320 who can set up is, I'm sure it's 5 * 20 miles. 774 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,000 It's either 5 * 20 miles or 4 * 25, right. 775 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,720 But let's just say it's 5 * 20 because I'm pretty sure it is. 776 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,760 And the way it worked is, is you cannot, cannot done this loop. 777 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,520 And you would buy this aid station called Damnation. 778 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,480 And then you looked out and you come back to Damnation and then 779 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,400 you went back down to the start. So you hit Damnation twice every 780 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,200 lap. I think you had it at 7 miles 781 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,760 and 14 miles as a message, right? 782 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,360 So in that race, right, I'm there. 783 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,920 I went to that race thinking look at all these names on this 784 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,680 list, right? And I've got all I want to do is 785 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,560 if I finish top 10 here, that would be quite the quite the 786 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,920 outcome. And and the second lap in the 787 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,720 second lap we're at we're at 30 miles and it's me, Robbie 788 00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:22,000 Britton guy, not Robbie Britton. He wasn't there. 789 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,200 Sorry. Zach Batter, Mario Mason. 790 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,680 There was a group of four or five years. 791 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:29,240 And we're kind of run it. And I'm like, why am I running? 792 00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:31,400 But he's this is, this is idiotic. 793 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,600 And this old guy's coming back the other way on his first lap 794 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,720 and we're halfway through the 2nd lap and he's just like, he's 795 00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:43,160 like suicide pace guys. And I'm just shooting him, you 796 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,920 know, let's just go. And they're all like, yeah, 797 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:46,240 cheering. I'm like, I have no idea what 798 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:47,520 I'm doing. They're like, who has this guy? 799 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,520 He's going to blow up. Zach better goes over his ankle 800 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,680 a bit a few miles later and obviously I'm like, how you 801 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:54,840 doing Zach? He's like, I'll be OK. 802 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,720 I'm like you're left. So I just left him because I 803 00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:00,440 thought he was going to be OK and he would catches up and the 804 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,840 rest of the group moved on. And before you know, I'm running 805 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,280 in second place in this race. So the guy, the guy, there's a 806 00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,680 guy who's taking a lead, maybe 4 to 5 minute lead and then we get 807 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,040 into the final, getting out for the final lap. 808 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,600 So this is 80 miles and then there's an aid station about 3 809 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,840 miles out because it's America. There's an aid station every 3 810 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,880 miles because you can't go more than 30 minutes without eating. 811 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,320 So there's an aid station 30 miles out and three miles out. 812 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,400 And I go by it and the guy's the guy at the station is like, 813 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,960 you're an elite. And I'm like, how's that 814 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,520 possible? Because he's like, no, he's 815 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,760 withdrawn. So I've went from being the 816 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,760 hunter to the haunted, which is a very different experience 817 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,480 right when you're in a race and so and and but the guy who's 818 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,640 behind me, a guy Ronnie, he's behind me. 819 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,040 He's only four or five minutes behind me. 820 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,240 So I'm 4 or 5 minutes behind the leader of four or five minutes 821 00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:52,600 ahead of the game thought all of a sudden, though, I'm the leader 822 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,040 of the guys 4 or 5 minutes behind me. 823 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:55,600 But I'm starting to feel terrible. 824 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,720 It's the last 20 minutes, 20 miles, 100 mile race and I get 825 00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:01,240 to damnation right. So remember my dad and my 826 00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:03,800 brother, they spent me nightmare with flights. 827 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,280 Flights were cancelled the date and the way over, but we get 828 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,320 there anyway. So they've given up a whole 829 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,280 bunch of time, spent a whole bunch of money to come with us 830 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:15,240 out to this event, staying at like classic American Motel, 831 00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:16,680 right? You know, we're like, we're 832 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,480 like, you know, we're like, you haven't shuffle the cockroaches 833 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,200 over for comfort in the bed and stuff. 834 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,240 And it's like, honestly, let's just say we weren't loving it 835 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,400 up. And I guess the damnation 87 836 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,040 miles and I'm out to my brother. He's at damnation. 837 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,640 So he's seen me twice after a lap and my dad's waiting at the 838 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:35,960 start and they're just fueling me. 839 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,720 I'm not you. I didn't use a need station once 840 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:40,120 in this race. So I'm just like, bang, fuel me, 841 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,560 fuel me, throw me tailwind, throw me, whatever I'm, I'm 842 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,640 having. I get to my brother 87 miles and 843 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,680 he's like, my brother is like, he's like you, You've both met 844 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,400 me, right? I'm what, 5-7, just over 10 1/2 845 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,400 stone. He, I mean, he's lost, he's 846 00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:02,280 actually lost about about £100 in the last six months, but he's 847 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,720 like 6 foot too. And he's, he was probably in the 848 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:07,720 mid 20s and stolen. He's lost a lot of weight. 849 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:09,640 So he's getting really fat, which is brilliant to see. 850 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,160 So he's just standing there. He could be from Texas, right? 851 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,400 And he's bought a 10 gallon hat or whatever is equivalent. 852 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,640 So he sees me and three, I was like, when I come back down, 853 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,040 just tell me how far ahead of the guy I was when I come back 854 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,640 round. And so I'm background and all 855 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,600 I'm waiting on is the guy in second place overtaking me. 856 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:29,360 It's all I'm waiting on. I'm just waiting on it. 857 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,320 You cannot do this loop. And it's really lonely out 858 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:32,560 there. It's the best point. 859 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,880 It's starting to get dark and I'm doing this loop and I come 860 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,640 background and this, this is about that makes me smile. 861 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,960 My dad, my brother says to my dad's, my dad's phone down and 862 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,760 he says it doesn't matter how far ahead you are. 863 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,920 He says you've just did run what you've never run before and 864 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,360 you'll be fine. So then you know how far behind 865 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,640 the guy and it turns out the guy was actually Sloane behind me, 866 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,560 but I did not know that. But what had happened, right? 867 00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,520 So I'm so after that I'm just like, I put the boot down right 868 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,200 and I'm running like maybe 8 minute miles pace of the space. 869 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,000 I'm at 93 miles in the race. But I'm saying to myself, the 870 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,240 piano go away, the piano go away, the piano go away. 871 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:10,200 And that was my mantra for the defendant. 872 00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:14,240 Finish the race. Well, then all the guy behind me 873 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,200 who's running in second place, really nice guy, Ronnie, Ronnie 874 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,200 Dells of his name is. And his crew had clocked that my 875 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,520 brother was there. So they're over at my brother 876 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,840 going, who has this guy? What's he done? 877 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,880 And my brother knows nothing about running, not about running 878 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:30,800 these. I don't know. 879 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,560 He does these, he does these things where he runs on a track 880 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,560 for like 24 hours and stuff. And how far is he run his lot? 881 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,640 I don't know, like 260 kilometers. 882 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,480 Is that a lot? And but he's actually 883 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,080 gaslighting them without even knowing he's gaslighting. 884 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,240 And they'll, Oh my God, this guy basically then you had chops, 885 00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:50,520 right? So instead of thinking I was 886 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,560 going to blow up the lot on all, so we need to chase this guy 887 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,720 down. So, and then so I get over the 888 00:44:55,720 --> 00:44:57,880 line, across the line. And what, what makes me smile 889 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,760 about all of that was is we'd go through a period before that's 890 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,320 right. And it's, it's in the public 891 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,640 domain. It's well known a few months 892 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,960 before that I'd found out my brother was adopted by my dad. 893 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:09,800 He's a different dad. He'd make his new family. 894 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,840 So this was a coming together for us as a family. 895 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,880 So we won that race together because their encouragement. 896 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,440 If I hadn't had that encouragement, that one line 897 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,280 doesn't matter how far ahead you are, just run like you've never 898 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,760 run before. I would probably have soft quit 899 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,240 giving up that race because I said myself top ten was good 900 00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:31,840 beforehand, but to win it was never in my imagination. 901 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,880 So I then won the race and what's brilliant and starting 902 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,880 the fence out in the back here, I got this metal owl for winning 903 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,080 and the guy had only finished second because it was the US 904 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,920 National Trail 100 mile championships. 905 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:44,920 That's why you'd all the best American runners. 906 00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,440 And now I think he got $5000 or something. 907 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,240 And I got a metal owl and I remember away from the race like 908 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,000 how much is this worth? And I was like probably get £20 909 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,120 on eBay for. So anyway, yeah, that makes me 910 00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,880 smile. Nikki, that's a story that makes 911 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:01,600 me smile. I've got many others, but that 912 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:03,560 one kind of makes me smile when I think of the memory. 913 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,120 I remember hearing about that on another podcast when you said 914 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,320 the 2nd place got the prize money and I was listening to 915 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,240 that during the run and actually said out loud, are you me? 916 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,560 I was actually raging for you. I was like, no, I would not be 917 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,800 happy. It always makes me laugh, but 918 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,200 hey, outside it's America, what can you say? 919 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,200 You mentioned there about being the haunted. 920 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:38,080 I I always say that paranoia is the perfect fuel and if you are 921 00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,280 being the hunted, you think somebody's behind you that 922 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,240 speeds you on. Do you think that had an effect 923 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:46,400 on you? Totally, I think I totally agree 924 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,960 with you make paranoia can be the fuel if you choose to allow 925 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,600 it to be and and if but it could be the fuel or let's let's bring 926 00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,720 us to life. Do you want paranoia fuel or do 927 00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:59,280 you want paranoia pool when it pulls you back? 928 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,360 And I think you fight that push and pull right, because at the 929 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,480 at the outset of that, I was allowing it to become a reason 930 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,040 not to push on. I was almost giving myself an 931 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,280 excuse. It was almost alone. 932 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,840 The paranoia to be the reason that didn't achieve what others 933 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,760 were hoping I would, and what I was going to achieve regardless 934 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:21,840 was good enough. Rather than the paranoia 935 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,440 becoming the push that became the thing that came up with a 936 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,240 mantra. Pain goes away, pain goes away, 937 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:29,040 pain goes away. I was literally saying that out 938 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,200 loud as it was passing people because we were laughing people 939 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,640 at this point. Literally saying that out loud 940 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,760 as it was laughing people. And it stuck with me like for 941 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:41,400 the first 3 miles after that, I was running so hard between that 942 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,960 aid station and the final one is that there is no way this 943 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:44,960 person's going to have caught me now. 944 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,200 I just knew it. I'd went from like 10 minute 945 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,240 mailing to 8 minute mailing just by that change in my mindset. 946 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,600 And you can imagine if that guy's not caught me over 6 miles 947 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,840 and then I'm now running 2 minutes a mile quicker. 948 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,120 I, I knew then I was opening the gap rather than a gap closing. 949 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,960 So you're right, I'm paranoia pool, paranoia fuel. 950 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,920 It's your choice. And with your mantra of the pain 951 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,600 will go away, have you ever said anything daft to yourself to 952 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,840 keep you going in the race? Just to keep you going or just 953 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,600 to make you laugh and 1 foot in front of the other. 954 00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:25,200 I do, I do embark on boats of self talk, but usually it's I'm 955 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:29,240 usually cursing at myself and I try and I try and segment things 956 00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:32,360 down into smaller blocks like there's A and broad with lock is 957 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,440 nearby me and it's 3 kilometers. So often they'll say just five 958 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,920 Broadwood locks to go. Doesn't seem a lot break it down 959 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:40,920 into that. And then. 960 00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,120 But I've never, I've never been and I would never claim to be 961 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,480 wet enough to even make myself laugh, never mind others. 962 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:51,440 But usually what I do in that case is I'll go 2 miles, just 963 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,400 two miles, get from here to there and I try and break it 964 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,760 down into small chunks because you can become overwhelmed by 965 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,680 the normally of some of the stuff we do right. 966 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,840 And that normally it might be you doing the flying, you doing 967 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,280 the devil. It might be mate going even just 968 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,480 seeing eight years out loud make it's like, are you off your 969 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,480 rocker? And but actually, you, when 970 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,480 you're in the backyard ultra, I'm pretty sure you're thinking 971 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,320 just get back here, get back here and do it. 972 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:17,800 And don't do it too quick. Don't do it too slow. 973 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,760 Give yourself time to get your food, your chunky soup, which is 974 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,760 perfectly fine, by the way, just no matter what your community 975 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:24,840 thinks. Yeah. 976 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,280 So I've never been one for that. And I don't do talk out loud 977 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,560 very often. And like, it's usually all 978 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,480 internal. I'm glad you say that because 979 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,200 when I'd finished The Devil and it was actually Kenny McManus 980 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,840 that said to me says when you get to Co Hell, it's just a Croy 981 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,080 Hell. And I was like, what is that all 982 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,560 it is? And he's like, yeah, it's about 983 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,120 that. I was like, OK, so when I got to 984 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,720 Croy Hill, the bottom of it, I was like, oh, honestly, right. 985 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:51,360 It's just cry Hill. It's just cry hill. 986 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,560 It's not that bad. So it's a really good way of 987 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,720 thinking, you know, Kenny's a bright guy and it's a, it's a 988 00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:57,400 really good way of thinking about it, right? 989 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,080 Where you're like, instead of going, Oh my God, no, I need to 990 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:01,880 get over this final hill. You're like, I've done hills 991 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,360 like this a million times. Yeah. 992 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:09,040 Yeah. And you've talked about winning 993 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,320 races and coaching and everything in between. 994 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:19,840 What would your personal running achievement or life achievement 995 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,960 to do with running be? So I like to think so it's, it's 996 00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:27,560 real if you ask me, my best of a performance make, I think it was 997 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,120 the FKT in the John Muir way. It was like the day after 998 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:34,200 lockdown ended and I'd been training like a monster because 999 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,000 I'd met. So it's, I'd been selected to 1000 00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,520 run for Britain for the, the 24 hours for the, IT was meant to 1001 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:45,800 be in the autumn, I'm sure. So I was really fat, right? 1002 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,240 And I was doing what, strength classes at home. 1003 00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:52,040 So I was fat and I was strong and I went out there and I was 1004 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,960 also motivated kind of like a dog straining A leash because I 1005 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,800 hadn't been able to do anything because it locked down. 1006 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,760 And I think if you look, it's hard to compare, you know, like 1007 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,520 comparing ears, You know, when people say this football player 1008 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,120 is better than that one, you're like, they played in different 1009 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:06,200 years. They're not compatible. 1010 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,080 So comparing FKT to a competition and a championship 1011 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:14,360 to a personal event, it's hard. But I think that was the finest 1012 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,040 performance. It was the one performance I had 1013 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:20,200 where I thought, I don't think I left anything out there, you 1014 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:23,040 know, like I think, I honestly can't remember the time. 1015 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,640 I'm sure it was under 22 hours and I thought under 24 hours 1016 00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,040 would be a good run, you know, because it's like 140 miles or 1017 00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,440 something like that, I think. And it was like, you know, 1018 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,520 obviously in mixed train trail, tarmac, Hells mud. 1019 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,720 And I remember the way the way I finished it thinking I could, I 1020 00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:42,200 could go for another few hours here. 1021 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,080 And so that's probably the best performance ever had. 1022 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,760 I would say my favorite race 1 though, and I would never change 1023 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:51,960 that. It's like one in the West Ham 1024 00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:57,840 way, which was 10 years ago now. I'll never leave me in the sense 1025 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,080 that it was kind of like I remember someone saying to me is 1026 00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,840 like you've came from nowhere when that race, like it was like 1027 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,840 it was an overnight sensation. And I was like, I've been 1028 00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,520 training really hard for the last five years, you know, that 1029 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,680 way. But it felt like an outcome. 1030 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,960 It was like a breakout. And that that was so true. 1031 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,640 I mean, I'd ran for Scotland earlier that year and I'd done 1032 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,880 some other stuff as well. Broken course records at 1033 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,680 different races, but that was the one where it was like, Oh my 1034 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,920 God, that grabbed people's attention and it grabbed my own 1035 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,320 attention. That made me feel incredible. 1036 00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,800 And probably my favorite competition was when we won the 1037 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:37,560 silver medal at the 24 hour EUR. And in 2018 that was in Romania. 1038 00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,920 There's a whole story behind that which I could tell you 1039 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:46,680 don't know at another time, but the what led up to that event 1040 00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,320 and what happened in that event and what it meant is literally 1041 00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,280 the only medalist alone is the the silver medal from that 1042 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:54,760 event. I don't even by the way, I know 1043 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,360 this will be sacrosanct to a lot of people. 1044 00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:00,320 I don't even own any of the belt buckles from races I've done or 1045 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,160 I've gave them all away or, or this is the one that will really 1046 00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,800 get people and like if you're holding a cup just now and 1047 00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,520 you're a fan, put it down. I don't have my West Island way 1048 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,720 goblets or trophies. I don't have any of that because 1049 00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:14,680 I don't really need visual artifacts for what's up here. 1050 00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,960 Yeah, So I'll tend to give them a wait in my cruise or people 1051 00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,720 who have supported me because I want to show the appreciation, 1052 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:24,920 say, but I earned this. But really, we earned this. 1053 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,080 So I think my dad's got one of my goblets, someone's got 1054 00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:29,520 another one. Belt buckles. 1055 00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,600 Other people have got them. James, if you're doing the West 1056 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:33,960 Highland way again, can I crew you? 1057 00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:42,680 He's desperate for a goblet. You said that some of the I said 1058 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,440 to you, you came from nowhere. Do you think that's a 1059 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,240 compliment? Like the other person that said 1060 00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:54,800 you're you would be good if you weren't fat, You came from 1061 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:59,280 nowhere, but it's just because they didn't see your training. 1062 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,440 Yeah, Yeah. I think you know what that is. 1063 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,920 Make you remember who said all of facts and interpretation. 1064 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,640 Their interpretation was it came from nowhere. 1065 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,160 But actually, if you've been paying attention, I'd run 100K 1066 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,000 for Scotland. I'd won you and I raced the 1067 00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,240 Glenmore the year before when I broke the course record for 1068 00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:16,840 that. I broke the course record that 1069 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,440 Clyde St. as well, which still stands now because I don't think 1070 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:20,400 that race will ever happen again. 1071 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:26,000 So I'm claiming that and and I'd done some really decent things, 1072 00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:31,040 but it still feels that you've come from nowhere because in 1073 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:36,920 2012 I said, if the only, the only reason I'll ever do the 1074 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,640 West Highland ways, if I believe I can do it in under 24 hours, 1075 00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:41,920 never do otherwise. And obviously I was, I don't 1076 00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:43,720 know, 50, just over 15 hours that year. 1077 00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:48,640 And so, yeah, I was, I actually surprised myself as much as 1078 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,520 anyone else. The difference between is I love 1079 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,840 the surprise those people. That was just like, Oh my God, 1080 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:54,520 this guy here. So if you weren't paying 1081 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:56,040 attention, yeah, it's, it's fine. 1082 00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,360 But the reality is if you were and Adrian, stop, he was before 1083 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,760 the race. He he, I mean, I think Hal 1084 00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,640 Corner and there was another really, really accomplished 1085 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:08,880 American runner come over that year. 1086 00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:10,680 There was quite a lot of good runners in it that year. 1087 00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,320 And I wasn't I was even in the top five been through Robert 1088 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,560 Dennon because people were just shot out a cannon. 1089 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,360 But Adrian, Adrian called it, he actually called it to me 1090 00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,360 beforehand and he called it in his preview. 1091 00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:26,000 And I think that's when, you know, I mean, a guy will ask is 1092 00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,880 he's done. You know, it's not a surprise. 1093 00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:29,880 It's just you've not been paying attention. 1094 00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,400 What's your John Muir FKT? James this is. 1095 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,440 Sorry this isn't on the question set, but I just wonder. 1096 00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:42,800 The John Muir way passes quite near to where you live and train 1097 00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,360 when you're on that section. Was it quite comforting to run 1098 00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:50,880 that section of it? Yeah, because there was loads 1099 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,920 of, remember first day after lockdowns, in theory you weren't 1100 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,400 allowed to mix houses and stuff or. 1101 00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:02,200 And so at the start, Paul Gabblin ran with me for a bit at 1102 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,960 the start. But what I didn't want to do is 1103 00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:08,320 have big crowds of people running with me and I didn't 1104 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,000 want big crowds of people hanging around by the tracker. 1105 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:15,040 And honestly, like, I don't think apart from some lonely 1106 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:19,400 sections in the canal, I either had company or passed someone 1107 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,920 every mile or so, almost all the way there. 1108 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:26,720 It was brilliant. And it was really, really good 1109 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,240 to see all of that. But coming through Croy, of 1110 00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:34,000 course, there was loads of people and my family were there 1111 00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,120 and there's people on you and coming up over. 1112 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,400 Because the way the John Muir way goes, you can like the 1113 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,840 psychopath is just keep going along the canal and it's like, 1114 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,320 oh, you're running it. You can go up over these hills 1115 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:47,000 and through the mud and then you can go up over the Roman and 1116 00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,320 then down the big hill at the other side. 1117 00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,480 And so like there, Jerry Healy met me there. 1118 00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,760 He ran with me for a while and then I picked up Robert 1119 00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,880 Rogerson, who's like, if you don't know Robert Rogerson, he's 1120 00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:58,880 there. They've just renamed the Kirke 1121 00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:03,640 Olympians 12 1/2 K after him. Was like absolute local legend 1122 00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:05,720 in the kind of club running community. 1123 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,760 And then I met, there was Sharon and Michael McPherson or two 1124 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,920 people I know. They were waiting for me to take 1125 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,960 photos and then I met me and blah, blah, blah. 1126 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,480 All of that was great because as you come through that central 1127 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:18,200 belt, it was like that was where my friends and family were. 1128 00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,600 And then as you get an A, like Edinburgh, there was just random 1129 00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:23,600 people popping up and I'm like, Oh my God, I'm not seeing you 1130 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,800 for years. Adrian Stott again mentioned 1131 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:28,320 him. He was on the bike and Keith, 1132 00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,560 Keith Hughes, he ran up over Kostoff and Hill with me. 1133 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,920 I was dying at that point and he never shot up the whole way. 1134 00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:38,000 It was brilliant because that was just what you needed at that 1135 00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:41,080 point. And then Helen Faulkner and our 1136 00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:43,760 man, they met me. It was just all of that and I 1137 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:47,840 ran the fast 50K with Bob Turner, which was a delight. 1138 00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,960 So Bob, we've been pre planned that and Bob says I'll come into 1139 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,440 the last fifty key with you. So he got me from Musselburgh 1140 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:58,640 down in Dunbar and and and and it perhaps under what you knows, 1141 00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,240 but you know the most incredible thing and all of that, because 1142 00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,280 you've run all that, you've met all your own community and then 1143 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,960 you make this new community who I still speak to today, and 1144 00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:07,520 you're going to have to forgive me. 1145 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,520 I can't remember the guy's name though, off the top of my head, 1146 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:15,400 but at the foot of North Berwick Law, this old guy, it's 1147 00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:16,640 terrible. I can't remember his name 1148 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:21,080 because he's like a legend must. He's in his early 70s and he ran 1149 00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,000 with us from North Berwick Law halfway at the bar and then ran 1150 00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,520 back. That was a large just doing a 1151 00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:27,440 long run. But you guys, I can't keep up 1152 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:30,440 with this guy. You know, he's so good and 1153 00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,000 meeting people like that truly, because this guy's like a 1154 00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,000 legendary club runner. So I don't know them. 1155 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,800 And you're like, holy moly, this is touching people. 1156 00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:40,560 And I think the timing was perfect. 1157 00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,800 First day after lockdown, everybody was like, I want don't 1158 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:44,880 watch and I want races. We've missed all of that. 1159 00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:47,680 But yeah, running through crow is pretty special. 1160 00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,880 And you know what? I got make coming in a place 1161 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,120 called Twerker, right? It's got a beach. 1162 00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:54,840 That's a joke for anybody, for Twerker listening. 1163 00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,720 And you committed Twerker. And then you got over. 1164 00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,240 You got over that main wall. You know what I got off my wife 1165 00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,720 and kids at Twerker? Tina tomato soup. 1166 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:09,960 Tina tomato soup. See it works for. 1167 00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:11,840 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 1168 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,200 Rocket fuel. Rocket fuel. 1169 00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:13,960 It was. Yeah. 1170 00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:16,720 Yeah. It was passing down. 1171 00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:20,240 See, the first half of that run absolutely chucked up with rain 1172 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:26,680 all the way to about Bonnie Bridge, which would be about 60 1173 00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,880 miles in and absolutely soaked. And then from then, and it was 1174 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,200 beautiful. And I think I would rather it 1175 00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:36,720 was that way around, you know, you know, but I had to change my 1176 00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,560 shoes three times because it's so wet, so wet. 1177 00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:42,600 Eventually put the same shoes on it started with because at least 1178 00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,040 there's a chance to dry out. But yeah, it was. 1179 00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:49,520 It was quite the day. And I would imagine this answers 1180 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:53,080 changed for you from when he started running to know, but 1181 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:56,960 right now the James Stewart of today, why do you run? 1182 00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:58,920 So what? Why? 1183 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,960 Why Iran? Why I started running this is 1184 01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,520 back to the strategic intent. I was running to lose weight, 1185 01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:09,720 then I was running to break PBS, then I was running to improve 1186 01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,520 performance, right. So because I think big PBS is 1187 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,760 one thing that I started to measure performance through in 1188 01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,320 position within a field, because it's one thing going around 40 1189 01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:22,120 minutes for a 10K, but for on 40 minutes in the local 10K over 40 1190 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,200 minutes in a national 10K, it's it's different, right? 1191 01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:27,320 Competition. So what I want, I started saying 1192 01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,920 I would love to do is be consistent in the top 10% of 1193 01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:32,000 races. So if the races got 3000 people 1194 01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,440 in it, top 300. If the races got 30 people in 1195 01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,480 it, top three. And that's what I start. 1196 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:37,720 That's what I started to get into. 1197 01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:41,320 And then I discovered ultra running and I was like, right 1198 01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:46,160 now I want AI want a move from participation to performance and 1199 01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,040 that that. So then I was running to perform 1200 01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:49,160 and then I was running to get better. 1201 01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,080 And then I was running to win races and then I was running to 1202 01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,040 wear vests and then I was running to break FKTS. 1203 01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:59,080 Now today I run to stay fit, be happy and just kind of maintain 1204 01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:02,080 balance in my life because I'm exceptionally busy with a number 1205 01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:04,240 of things. But running for me is like the 1206 01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:08,160 foundation on which all my non running performance comes from, 1207 01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,800 whether it's as a father, a colleague at work or as a 1208 01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:12,440 student or anything else in between. 1209 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:17,360 Because without that, I'm not as mentally well, well balanced my 1210 01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,120 energy when the, the less I run, the less energy I have. 1211 01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,960 It's like there'll be some sort of paradoxical term used by some 1212 01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:25,880 psychologist for this, like Schrodinger's runner. 1213 01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,080 You know, there's an honor even run if nobody sees them run if 1214 01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,200 it's not on Strava. But the the point is, is the the 1215 01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,520 better I'm training, the better I'm other things. 1216 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:36,240 So it's like, Oh my God, the last thing I should do is back 1217 01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:39,960 away because back in a way has a consequential effect in other 1218 01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,360 areas. So I I run today because it has 1219 01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:47,320 innumerable health and physical health and mental health 1220 01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:50,000 benefits. And I wish more people could see 1221 01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,040 that. And the answer the next 1222 01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,240 question. It might even be the same as 1223 01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:57,720 what you just said. But what? 1224 01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:59,680 What are you thinking about while you're running? 1225 01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:03,800 Oh, Mike, you want inside my head. 1226 01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,040 It's like, Oh my God, like I'm going to go line the couch 1227 01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,920 behind me and then by the end of it we'll have solved a lot of 1228 01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:14,240 problems. And I I consume a lot when I'm 1229 01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:15,840 running, right? I don't, I listen sometimes 1230 01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:20,520 listen to music and I am often listening to podcasts and 1231 01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,240 podcasts adjacent to my studies, podcasts adjacent to my work or 1232 01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,200 just podcasts adjacent to my interests. 1233 01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,880 So I'm often doing that. And I'll tell you make sometimes 1234 01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,880 I need to switch them off so that I'm not thinking because 1235 01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,720 sometimes the, the best, the best bets are running for me are 1236 01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,360 what I'm not thinking. So I'm not consuming and, and 1237 01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:42,240 maybe I'll just put on some like an ambient music or, you know, 1238 01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,560 just some music where you're not actually having it, you're 1239 01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:46,680 passively listening to it, but really you're giving your brain 1240 01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:51,360 a rest. But I'm I totally and utterly am 1241 01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:54,480 a consumer of information and it's it's probably to my 1242 01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,240 detriment. I over I overtax my brain at 1243 01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,680 times and it's something I need to get better at as well. 1244 01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:08,320 Is there a song that when it comes on makes you just run 1245 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,360 faster, feel better? Absolutely, absolutely. 1246 01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,560 I tell you the greatest running song ever, like so far I'm going 1247 01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:16,640 to do is say I'm going to try and run like a fast mile. 1248 01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,160 And, and the reason, the reason this one let me actually, I'm 1249 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:22,200 going to check the length of this song just to make sure I've 1250 01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,440 got it right. So remember I was talking about 1251 01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:26,080 trying to get faster and all of that. 1252 01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:32,480 I challenged myself back when I was like back when I was trying 1253 01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:36,920 to get faster and further to run a mile quicker than this song. 1254 01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:38,600 And it's rear view mirror bipedal jam. 1255 01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:43,680 It's the greatest running song ever, and it's 4 minutes and 43 1256 01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,320 seconds long. And I was like, I want to be 1257 01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:47,640 faster. I want to finish. 1258 01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,760 I want to. I think I actually started it 1259 01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:53,080 because when I started, I was trying to find songs that were 1260 01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,840 in and around at the time. And I remember going to imagine 1261 01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:57,760 you could run under 5 minutes for a mile. 1262 01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:01,440 And then the song I picked before I got to Dear View 1263 01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:06,240 Mirror, because I'm sure if you just bear with me, it was this 1264 01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:11,880 one was about fight. Yeah, So when I was trying to 1265 01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,880 get under 6 minutes for a meal, it was national anthem by 1266 01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:16,800 Radiohead. So don't you know that one? 1267 01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,320 It's great bass line. What song it is. 1268 01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,400 And then once I once I cracked that, I was like, right, Dear 1269 01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,480 View Metals attacked the target. Yeah. 1270 01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,840 So whenever Rear View Metal comes on, I'm like, it's it's 1271 01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,240 basically like audio steroids. Yeah. 1272 01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,320 And I think that was the song you gave me from my John Muir 1273 01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,000 playlist when I asked you for one it. 1274 01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:38,760 Probably. Would it be Yeah. 1275 01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:41,120 Because whenever you talk to me about a song about running every 1276 01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:43,040 bit that surprise people because probably. 1277 01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,680 Think the cult, but no. Rearview Mirror by Pearl Jam. 1278 01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:51,520 And question is not on the set, but we got told off by Bob 1279 01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,760 Allison, a pylon athlete, for not asking it. 1280 01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,000 Hallucinations. Yes. 1281 01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,120 Have you had them? What's the best one? 1282 01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:03,200 You know, genuinely haven't like I need to listen to Bob's 1283 01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:05,880 because what a guy Bob is. There's a there's a great 1284 01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,400 example of what was talking about about, you know, service 1285 01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:12,760 to the community like Bob. If you know Bob, you're like 1286 01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:16,720 what, what what stories got to tell, both in terms of what he's 1287 01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,360 achieving, achieved, but also what he's achieving with his 1288 01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,400 health and stuff now and just how good he is as a human. 1289 01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:30,120 But make I've never had the hallucination, not a legal one 1290 01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:35,040 anyway, but in like in in my running, I've I've never 1291 01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,600 actually had that. And I don't know if it's luck or 1292 01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:40,280 otherwise, but you know what I put that down to? 1293 01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,440 It's funny, you know, when you talk about how your life 1294 01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:45,440 conditions you certain things, but remember I was talking about 1295 01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,200 back when I was chunky and heavy and I was doing a lot of 1296 01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:49,160 traveling. What I was doing a lot then was 1297 01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,240 doing, I was pulling, I walked in project management back then 1298 01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,160 doing lots of infrastructure change projects. 1299 01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,680 So we would go and a look call centers and you would have 1300 01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,720 Friday to Monday to wrap up the infrastructure replace the test 1301 01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:01,680 at all. So a lot of things you weren't 1302 01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,920 sleeping during these periods. So I ended up conditioned to 1303 01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,200 being able to go for 2436 hours without sleep. 1304 01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:10,640 So I never suffered from jet lag or anything like because I'm 1305 01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:12,960 just like jet lag. See from me, jet lags just 1306 01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,120 looked down a 24 hour race. It's like just get your sleep 1307 01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:18,440 when you can. So I think I'm blessed. 1308 01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:19,960 Never. I've had that, but I've never 1309 01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,800 been stupid enough to do a race when you eat soup for 8 hours. 1310 01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,040 So maybe if I did what you did, I would have some 1311 01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,920 hallucinations, you know? Well, I've never had 1312 01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:30,120 hallucinations either, and I always put it down to you. 1313 01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:31,960 I've never pushed far enough to get it. 1314 01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,680 All right, OK, So what you're saying is that I'm just hearing 1315 01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:38,800 you saying I've not tried hard enough make, you know, that's 1316 01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,440 that's that's the equivalent of the guy saying now if I wasn't 1317 01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,600 so fat, that's my yeah. You're not trying hard enough, 1318 01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:45,600 James. You got to try. 1319 01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:48,080 You got to do a backyard ultra and go a lot further. 1320 01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,840 Maybe one day, Maybe one day. When when you ask that mate, the 1321 01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:55,640 immediate thought that came into my head was he doesn't run long 1322 01:06:55,640 --> 01:07:00,600 enough because he's so fast. But that actually leads me to my 1323 01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:03,080 question. Have you done longer than sweat? 1324 01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:04,720 24 hours. Nope, Nope. 1325 01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:08,720 Farthest I've ever ran is 160 odd miles in 24 hours. 1326 01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,000 So no, I've never, I've never done that. 1327 01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,920 My only route to doing that I'm not interested in. 1328 01:07:15,480 --> 01:07:17,360 I mean, I've done multi day stuff. 1329 01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,040 What we've done with the pylon Ultras and Endeavours. 1330 01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,480 Where you are actually, it's like you're moving for that long 1331 01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:24,280 but you're not actually physically running a lot of it. 1332 01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:28,040 You've got brakes and you've got natural kind of fire breaks and 1333 01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,240 what you're doing. But no, 24 hours is the longest 1334 01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:32,840 I've ever run for. Yeah. 1335 01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:39,560 And do you still have any races that are on a bucket list that 1336 01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,440 any dream races that you'd still like to do? 1337 01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:49,080 Yeah, I'm I'm. My one regret is is that I've 1338 01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:54,240 never done Western States and when I won Rocket Recruit, I'm 1339 01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:55,920 not under section. Rocket Recruit used to be a 1340 01:07:55,920 --> 01:08:00,480 golden ticket race for Western states, but I couldn't accept 1341 01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:03,240 and I'm not even sure if it was that year because I've been 1342 01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,560 selected to run for Britain. So I would add the choice 1343 01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:10,040 between GB and western States and and back then your last 1344 01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:12,520 inevitable end up qualifying for Western states again. 1345 01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:14,640 But I've never asked to put myself in position of I've 1346 01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,520 entered that a couple of times with tickets, but that's the one 1347 01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,040 race that I'd go. I'd love to have done that 1348 01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:21,479 because it was one of the races that got me hooked to 100 mile 1349 01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,439 racing. But and a funny sort of way. 1350 01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:28,840 Now we, we, the way I, the way I look at a question like that is, 1351 01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:33,240 is like, it's quite reductive to regret things you haven't done 1352 01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:35,680 when you've done so much that you're, you're, you want to 1353 01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:39,240 celebrate. So, and the reality is, is if 1354 01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:41,520 I'd wanted to do enough, I would have. 1355 01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:45,359 And that's back to you can do anything you want, so long as 1356 01:08:45,359 --> 01:08:46,680 you give up something else to achieve it. 1357 01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,960 So if I wanted to do, say, Western states, I would run off 1358 01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:52,720 100 mile races, get enough qualifiers, keep making sure I'm 1359 01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:55,359 doing them to get to the point where you you never will get in 1360 01:08:55,359 --> 01:08:56,840 because of the way the ticketing system works. 1361 01:08:57,319 --> 01:08:59,200 But it hasn't actually mattered that much. 1362 01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:01,120 Yeah, but it's the one I'd love to do. 1363 01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:07,439 And next question is, it's often a hard question to ask. 1364 01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:11,800 Is there, is there anybody that you would like to go for a run 1365 01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:15,439 with, whether they're alive or not, fictional or real? 1366 01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:23,520 So Mike, the the person who who's inspired a lot of the 1367 01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,640 stuff that I do, so you talk about, talked about my dad 1368 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:30,439 earlier. It's through this journey of me 1369 01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:33,680 getting fat. He got fat and we then were able 1370 01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:35,439 to do some runs together, which was brilliant. 1371 01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:37,319 He'd come out and do some of the pylon runs. 1372 01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:40,560 It came to some of the pylon weekends and he wouldn't go on 1373 01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,520 all the long runs, but he'd be able to do the the 10K, the 12 K 1374 01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,080 got himself back up to run and sub two hours and a half 1375 01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:48,279 marathon in his 60s, which I think is really good. 1376 01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:52,120 Subsequently, he had operations in both his feet, basically 1377 01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:54,600 Franken feet, right? You had to get bones failed and 1378 01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:56,720 all that stuff. It's like my God had to go. 1379 01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:58,720 He was he had to basically buy hawkers. 1380 01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:03,800 That's how big his feet got. And then one of the greatest 1381 01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:06,280 things I got to do was he recovered from that and we were 1382 01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,440 able to do some runs on Croy Hill, some of these trails 1383 01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:10,800 around here. So it's almost back to that 1384 01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:12,560 point is I've actually got to do that. 1385 01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:14,120 That question. I've actually been able to live 1386 01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,640 that and I wouldn't have been able to do that if we hadn't 1387 01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:22,680 done what we've done. And what is next for you running 1388 01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:27,560 wise? Well, I have got the grand total 1389 01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:34,680 of 0 races entered for 2026. My priority of 2026 is I know 1390 01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,680 you you talked about it in introduction is, is I'm doing 1391 01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:39,680 the doctorate and AI in the future. 1392 01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,560 They work and for anyone who's listening is like, it's a very 1393 01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:45,360 complicated subject and people tend to take quite a binary 1394 01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:47,160 position. I'm looking at it as my 1395 01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:49,720 backgrounds and social sciences or one of my backgrounds and 1396 01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:53,680 social sciences and from a, from a academic point of view. 1397 01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,360 And I'm looking at it from the context of what does this mean? 1398 01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:59,320 We need to change in the way we contract and the way we work and 1399 01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:01,960 how we distribute the benefits of this technology. 1400 01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:03,680 Yeah, I know how you want the technology. 1401 01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,160 I've got a server sitting right next to me here now running like 1402 01:11:06,440 --> 01:11:09,400 8 different agents which are running 24/7 doing loads of 1403 01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,680 stuff for me. And which is really cool because 1404 01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:13,600 you asked the question about how they do as much as I do. 1405 01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:17,040 Sometimes it's not me doing it. Nikki, That's the trick as 1406 01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:23,440 delegation, as an app and but that is a priority for me. 1407 01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:25,440 And right now I'm doing 2 module. 1408 01:11:25,440 --> 01:11:28,640 I'm working full time, I work for the eBay and it keeps me 1409 01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,040 rather busy. Next month alone, I'm in San 1410 01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:35,000 Francisco twice. Next month I go for a week, come 1411 01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:36,160 back for a week, vote for a week. 1412 01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:42,080 So just with all the travel I've got and the study and I don't 1413 01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:44,760 want to just put myself into races for the sake of buying 1414 01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:49,120 entries to races and then not actually running to the level 1415 01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:51,560 that I want to. And you know what I've always 1416 01:11:51,560 --> 01:11:54,560 said, I've always enjoyed training more than racing, which 1417 01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,040 is why I go back to the point about adventures and FKT has 1418 01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,480 been more fun because it's like you're doing something that 1419 01:11:59,480 --> 01:12:01,640 isn't mapped out. You're not going to the Glasgow 1420 01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:03,040 Half Marathon. I think the class. 1421 01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,080 No, it wasn't. What I mean, I ran the Glasgow 1422 01:12:07,080 --> 01:12:11,200 half, not last year, the year before, and I ran a few ultras 1423 01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:13,960 and stuff since then. But really I'm just like, you 1424 01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:16,080 know what I've gotten? I've nothing I need to prove to 1425 01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:17,800 myself anymore from a racing point of view. 1426 01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,000 So I'm really comfortable with my identity as a runner being 1427 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,960 I'm a guy who runs and I will enter races when I can put in a 1428 01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:28,040 good effort to at least maximize the potential performance I have 1429 01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,640 within me now. But I'm not going to turn up. 1430 01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:32,920 I'm not a metal collector, as you've already established. 1431 01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,520 I'm not someone who collects medals or even bad. 1432 01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:40,240 So I'm kind of like, I've got so much memories and good well from 1433 01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:41,520 running. I'm not going to force myself 1434 01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,160 into races just because of expectation or otherwise. 1435 01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:48,760 And I'm looking at my my doctorate alongside working full 1436 01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:52,880 time as been the new ultra that I'm living at an ultra in my 1437 01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:54,080 life now. And I need to approach it with 1438 01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:56,720 the same main set, which is a need to be consistent and need 1439 01:12:56,720 --> 01:12:59,240 to show up. I need to be able to, you know, 1440 01:12:59,440 --> 01:13:01,880 run through the hard areas. I need to believe that I can, 1441 01:13:02,240 --> 01:13:03,840 but also need to put the effort in. 1442 01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:07,960 And if I do that, I'll succeed what it means, and I said this 1443 01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,600 before, when you do something like ultra running, I had to 1444 01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:13,000 sacrifice some things from the life I have to move things 1445 01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,680 around. Like I would love to spend more 1446 01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:17,760 time playing the guitars behind me. 1447 01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:21,440 Me and my mate played four songs at a kind of local gag the other 1448 01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:25,400 night and we basically practiced the night before and we have 1449 01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:28,680 playing and you're just like, we sound rough as anything and 1450 01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:30,920 nobody cares. Everybody's up there like they 1451 01:13:30,920 --> 01:13:32,720 don't even listen to because they're talking and drinking. 1452 01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:35,760 But the point being is we care. We care about our own 1453 01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:37,200 performances. And that's why I'm not in a 1454 01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:40,800 hurry or any races because where I'm focusing my performance 1455 01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:44,440 outcomes in just now is is, and I don't just want to get a 1456 01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,720 doctorate. I want a, you know, I don't want 1457 01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:52,120 to escape like a pass. I want a Excel, so that 1458 01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:53,920 therefore means I need to sacrifice other things. 1459 01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:57,800 And right now I'm sacrificing my running career for my academic 1460 01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:00,000 career, and I'm totally at peace with that. 1461 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:05,840 And you're getting a doctorate in philosophy. 1462 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,000 You also like to think about things. 1463 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:15,360 The last question we've got written down is about mindset. 1464 01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:20,560 If you could, whether it's through Pylon or just through 1465 01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:24,600 listeners to this, if you could change some of these mindset, 1466 01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,840 one thing that would change their running, what would it be? 1467 01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,320 You know, oh man, one thing is change your mindset for and what 1468 01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:34,560 would it be? So it depends on who you are as 1469 01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:36,040 a runner. But let's just for the purposes 1470 01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:40,040 that I say that everyone that runs wants to achieve something, 1471 01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:42,560 whether it's a certain time, a certain distance, a certain 1472 01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,160 outcome, right? What I would say everyone 1473 01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:48,200 listening is, is what you think the limits of your potential 1474 01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:51,240 are, are probably lower than your true potential and give 1475 01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,680 yourself freedom to explore that and give yourself kindness 1476 01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,400 enough to feel it, trying to be better than you think you can 1477 01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:03,400 be. Well, that's the last question 1478 01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:05,400 that I've got, unless Nicky's got anything else. 1479 01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:08,880 I've got tons but I think we'd need to do another episode then. 1480 01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:10,960 They're probably full of daft questions so. 1481 01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,760 Listen, I'll come back anything, you know, just drop my line. 1482 01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,880 If, if, if for some God forsaken reason people listen to this 1483 01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:21,440 thing that's worth worth me coming back and they've got more 1484 01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:23,160 to add then I'd have looking back. 1485 01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:25,720 I've got quite a lot of stories I'd be happy to share with you 1486 01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:29,040 both. So yeah, I can't believe that's 1487 01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,080 been nearly an hour and a half. I don't know where the thing's 1488 01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:35,840 gone. Well, I'm sure we will drop you 1489 01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:41,600 a line at some point, but for tonight it's thank you James for 1490 01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:44,400 coming on, Thank you Nikki for being Nikki and it's goodbye 1491 01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:46,200 from me. Thanks, James. 1492 01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:49,000 Thank you, it's a pleasure and I'm honoured you asked me. 1493 01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:49,480 Thank you.