Hello and welcome to another episode of Run Till You're Done.
This month and the month of February.
It is raising the Wellness in the UK for cardiac health and
this Heart Month. So what?
I'm for a treat with this week's guest.
He's had an array of cardiac issues which he's going to be
talking about, but beyond that, what treat we are in for, he is
some runner. Just a couple of highlights.
He's ran UT MB five times. He's completed the West Highland
Way 11 * 10 of which have been sub 24 hours.
He's went up and down Ben Nevis 15 times in the race.
He's probably done it way more than that and he's completed all
the Monroes in Scotland. I can't wait to see find out
more about this guy. Mike.
Welcome to the show, Bob Allison.
Thank you very much for asking me, it's a pleasure.
Welcome on the show, Bob. Nikki didn't know before she
tried to introduce you for the show that I, I've known you for
a long time. So the the resume wasn't as much
of A shock to me as she, she's getting really excited about it.
So we've got a lot to talk about.
But right from the start, tell us the question that we ask
everybody. How did you first get into
running? Well, I wasn't really sporty
when I was at the school, played a wee bit for the school team
but I was I wasn't very good and the coach just seems to forget.
I've been trying to get the ball Bob just try and take the man
down as it was in the 70s attitude towards 2 ball.
But I got into motorcycles in a big way at 16.
And is that pretty much occupied?
Was a massive interest for like a couple of few decades almost
and just generally socialized, travelling about Europe, the
motorbike, touring and got the Isle of Man TT and a long time
ago flopping in Ibiza, Majorca, Crete, everywhere like that.
Great fun. But then my wife had been
trouble when they meet the horses, the gynecological
problem that affects unfortunately a massive amount
of women and it caused chronic pain, adhesions and all the
stuff under the sun. So she'd be glad to be
restricted to what she could do. So in her early 30s, we had to
have a lifestyle change. And after a hysterectomy at that
point, I will run for small walks as you're supposed to do.
And my walks are a wee bit bigger and bigger one more.
And, and then I tried to jog a bit and I was sneaking out in
the darkness with a coat and that one in the winter and
jogging a wee bit and walking a wee bit.
Then after a couple of months, I I decided once I do a run around
my scheme in a one hour, it was a bit 2 miles.
I'm going to come out as a runner.
I think I got my shorts like Vegas and so on and an old
T-shirt and I think I've seen the neighbors curtains fiction
like Oh, Bob's a runner. And I came out and and then I
started running, of course, stop smoking in 93.
It coincided with us and trying to generally get better health.
And I also went for walks up the woman's and and we're going to
love that. We're going to feel great for
you fitter. And I mean, it took me up going
cool and and said we're going to walk up something called an
enrol, which I have no idea what.
It was just a big mountain in Glencoe.
So went up there, broke every rule under the sun, came off the
wrong side. A booger left Moore pouring of
rain. Navigational challenge was
understatement. And then I just sort of went
more and more. I started going circuit training
three times a week at lunchtimes and became really, really
addicted to it. And it helped me mentally cope
because I tried to look after pain management and cope
mechanisms etcetera, etcetera. So the run and definitely help
be creating another level of stress there trying to get home
before I go pick her up at work and all.
I know I'm going to have to run faster and I'm up the hills and
I'm saying this is over ambitious.
I'm going to have to run with the boots on to get back to the
car because I'd say they'll be back at a certain time.
This is pre mobile phone, so it was a pretty rapid upswing to
just think I'm going to get fit, I'm going to stop smoking, we're
going to have to change your lifestyle really.
And Bob, what was your first race that you entered?
How did you go from your walk in going up the Monroes to actually
entering your first formal race? The first race was the growth of
South Marathon in May 1995 and not first year.
I did the towards each, each races.
I got to do that first year for the 1:50, I got this half, the
1:35, I have a Feldy and then the next, Between that year and
next year, I've done 25 half marathons and six marathons and
just couldn't get enough. Would go down to 131 1/2 and
just loved it. And they gave us something to do
because we drive the local half marathon staircase.
Whatever marked the calendar, they would come along, bring a
book, we'd find out a coffee shop.
He'd go away and have a couple of scones and our coffee.
I go and run a date and and and finish the race and and then we
meet, meet lots of people when and they just went, went from
there like so that was that was the first phase, probably about
330 since then. And 330 you've been back to a
lot of them a lot of times like UT MB five times W hand way 11.
What keeps pulling you back to the the races that you you've
done? Is it because you like them or
is there other reasons? Well I like with individual
events that when I was begun doing ultras I looked at Western
States, Leadville, Hard Rock. I've always wanted to do the
MD's as well Martin De Sable, but these races then wanted an
ECG from it and I didn't want to go America and feel the ECG
because I had arrhythmia from about 2002.
Also a deal with me and our condition to travel long
distances in our flight and and there was only really me helping
them along. So I didn't want to be away for
a week myself and I didn't know anybody that was doing that
stuff. Then really to to travel abroad
way. So the West Island way.
I remember starting doing hill races in 2002 and then looking
at the Scottish Hill racing who were on a fixture calendar and
seen the West Island way and it said 90 foot in murder.
Thought that must be a mistake. That's a bloody long Hillary
slot like. And then I got an entry form
2002 from Dario, the one and only Dario, really nice guy
Daria Miller angry the face director when I got involved.
And then I I started and looked at anything first.
I know I should farted back. I've done a 50K at that point
space my way, but they jumped from there.
But then I went back to this new sea and and and had a go at it.
But the West Island way, that's your home race in Scotland.
It's a wonderful order now says it's a great trail.
I started going and training on the West Island, waiting day
trips, you know, probably done at least 35 times in both
directions doing the race and training and the fling and then
a mate mentioned or you've got to go to the offices.
This race stood in there called Ultra Trail won't block.
You'll love it because I was loving the mountains.
But that time I finished on the Monroes.
And so again I went across there.
I couldn't believe the the scale of the mountains, the
jaggedness, the snow, the buzzing, the tune, the just
incredible. And it was the same way
Transville Carnia, my wife enjoyed the holiday there like
went to La Palma a couple of weeks in an all inclusive hotel,
snowed in pools. And I just started to do this
things called the Transville Carnia that I'd seen on
Eurosport. It was Nadesh when Kelly was
just beginning become a household name and Eurosport
were put in a golden trail and just sky running bases.
So again, went by there because I got to know people from
England that went, stayed in the same hotel.
There's a great buzz organization in the hotel and
got to know some of them. And the route was just
spectacular. The friend Flemisted Island, the
finish, there was a band playing in a platform, smoke machines,
the full works are just just an amazing, amazing occasion.
So all these races are just the community.
It suited us logistics wise. I knew about a bit of the event,
I knew people that went, the camaraderie, the environment,
just just fantastic. And then that's my health for
the atrial arrhythmias through this.
And it was I had a mass training.
So to actually embark upon someone purely as a race wasn't
even on my radar anymore and they failed to develop just a
huge adventure that incorporate the holiday with other people.
And that's why I'll keep going back to you, a lot of them, time
and time again. And Bob, I'm going to be totally
selfish here and ask my first question that is not on the
question set, so apologies if this springs on you.
West Highland Way. You say you've done it over 35
times. I am keeping everything crossed
and doing my first fling this year.
Any tips? Any tips?
Well, just the usual ones. Nikki, get on the route, what
you're doing regularly. I'm following your straw and
everything and it's great. Get out there, do sections on
it, nutrition. Just just try and work out what
you're doing in each section, what works and what doesn't
work. The terrain you're getting
familiar with previous routine that starts at what 6 in the
morning, just figuring out all these type of things, having
enough kit could be terrible weather.
Just just the standard stuff that's so available now and just
to try to apply what works for you.
I mean I always did regular training routes like mole guy to
Balmaha back to mole guy, Balmaha to Bangalore back to
Balmaha, the whole Derry Darris bang glass up to forest lodge.
Never like doing the rather than sharing I thought it was just
bleak and if you're running OK it was fine but it's just you
can see so far in front, so abandoned that.
But then always then the King's House to Braveheart car park and
park to King's House. And these are long days and I
know people like to get the boss and share it with other people
which is great. But I was on moan so I was
pretty happy to park the car and if I turned back, it was a
failure. So I had to mentally go to the
other end and then come back. So you had to go through that
process and mentally plus every common point like for Balmahar
to Bangalore, I knew how long and roughly it would take me to
get to the river there. And then there's need being
glass and I would look to do the same speed on the way back
roughly. And that gave me an idea of
patient. So I wasn't going it too fast
and in eight days I was just writing and doing a bit of paper
and there's occasionally an appalling weather of looked long
and wet walkers that they were getting into soaps and feel
miserable. And we'll ask this guy for a
lift back to bowl after noble. If you do that, you're going to
get in the car. 5 minutes ago. I failed so please let me So it
was as much metal and do not remember 2005.
It's pouring the rain in February going through Balma
hearted been glass and in these days there wasn't so many
bridges or easy bits to cross some of the streams and I was
looking at to try and jump. That's the stream not that far
from the end of the offside and a slot the forehead and there's
an overhead branch nearly not for sale.
Look, blood running in the forehead and I thought I was
dizzy for a bit and I thought I should just unbark me and forget
the last two or she may a lot be doing both in that.
But that's all. No, if I go back, I'll feel
better. I should have kept going.
So crazy stuff. But it does help you to sort of
dig in, drawing all your resources and just just channel
your inner grit and and get across one form after another.
Small sex, next checkpoint, the next drop bar, the next three,
next gate, the next bit along the lost side and there won't be
problems. I've never had a flame that I
didn't get cramp climbing across that style to purely I don't
know if it's still there. There was a wooden style and
then rice and a bit on the ground.
It's just as a metal big gate and then there was a fence and
you had to climb over that probably probably changed me,
but always had cramp there always had issues.
And if you have a a great run for start to finish, you're very
lucky, so I'm sure you don't. Think the style.
I don't think the style is there anymore.
I think it's possibly just a gate or something there now.
Right, and neither is the the 50 minutes to hang on to the wire
fence in the West are way beyond Ben Glass.
It was there in 2003 and the triangle fall in the river when
before they built that extra path and drained it and put all
the gravel in. Like getting on the route,
realizing what you have pointed up against and so many people in
there. You could chat away if that's
your thing or help people out. Or rather give people
paracetamol and gels and bars and encourage them and help
them. Call or you're nearly there.
You'll be fine. It's walk a bit and great
adventure. Great dude.
And that's a fantastic organized event as well so you'll love it
I'm sure. You'll be fine.
Thank you so much. Just be I'm, I'm really
fortunate that I do get to speak to a lot of people that have
done the West Highland way, like years and years and years ago.
And I'm often told it's easier now.
Well, you still have to cover 9596 miles on your on your feet
and deal with all these problems.
There's differences to the simple it.
Is just different because the the the flatter it is, the
smoother it is, the faster you've got to run.
So that makes it harder, absolutely.
Hi. Hi for for some mic.
Otherwise it's just to finish. So Bob, as I said in my
introduction as well, you've completed all the Monroes and I
don't want to move on to the next part until just I've got a
couple of questions about those. So with the Mall 282, did you
run up and down the mall and do you have a favorite one or a
round of them that you have? No, I never run up in the mall.
When I started doing it, I was just basically hiking and I got
a really heavy bag because I was, I was so sort of concerned
about having to get rescued and them saying, oh, he was ill
prepared and I'll equipped. So I had like almost the full
winter kit in the height of summer.
So I've done quite a few and then I got involved in a bit of
hill running and then I've seen these people skipping my boot
with the walls, TV shoes and entrainers and stuff and like
bags and I'm lugging all this stuff about no matter what the
weather is. So if the conditions were all
right, once I got experience, I started moving a bit faster.
And as I say, because I booked cottages up north myself and my
wife went for holidays there. And I, I, I would target a
cottage where I had a bunch of them in rows.
And every other day I'd go in the house and every other day
would go up a beachcombing session and go for cake and
coffee and that like, and I I've got to make big roots, two big
roots and just go on and and joining the mark modern survey
on the lap, that quick click, click on that's 3040K up the
fine. And then I've come across these
rivers and I think, Oh no, it's in space.
So I'll be going on doing the biking, trying to get across and
then have to weigh down and nearly getting swift away.
And then I've looked at my watch.
So I seen a bit back here at half six, I'm going to really
have to get cracking on. So started moving a lot of them
faster. And then once I was training for
for other stuff, like I was running them.
Like as you say, I've done been nervous numerous things and
anahea numerous things. My preferences were for the sky
manroses. Sky Ridge is just spectacular.
Toraden's a great area. I've spent many, many holidays
up in Toraden Glen nervous and the mowers and Glencoe.
These are all cracking areas. So I wasn't running the ball.
There's some of them. He just wanted to stop and sit
there and look at the view and appreciate how long you're here.
But I often was on days out and think there's one across there,
maybe I can go across that. And then that's where I thought,
oh, I shouldn't have bothered. And even like doing being with
us, it was only 1/2 day and I thought I told my wife that I
was going right. And then whatever a day I go
back to the car thought I'm going to jump in the car and go
in and do that little Monroe doing it acting machine, which
17 miles away. So I'm already not.
And I'm saying something happens.
I'm well away from a leave. Leave a note for where you're
going then so I could just meet up as I went home.
And I love doing them in the winter as well.
Getting the crampons ice action. Every mountain when it's covered
in snow and ice becomes a potential major extradition that
you're really, really pleased to get back for me.
A I turned around point right if I'm not at the summit at half
two, I've got to get back because it's going to get dark.
It can see a clock and I want to don't want to but on ridges in
the dark, my torch and myself and I quite you and so I was
very adventure. I loved it.
I loved the whole sort of getting up at I've left my house
at midnight and to go in Damon Rose four o'clock 5:00 was the
gear. Coffee in the car, drive along
great. I really enjoyed that.
And Nikki said that you've done 282.
I'm going to guess that you've done 284 was.
It 200 and the ones that used to be Monrose and Mike have
probably done most of the tops as well because.
If there was a top between Monroe's, I would go over the
top or I would do a top. There was a little wire because
I've tried to do the tops, but I haven't done all the all the
tops. Tops of something that's no
classified as a Monroe, but could be as high, it's too close
or some of the criteria stipulate Monroe's that just
doesn't fit because of the other ones in the better.
But yeah, I and I did 4 bit sniffing on the way and
depending on the weather and the time it was just I mean, I did
seen in things for the Western and we're like drive up to there
with AD up at Braemar and run and go up turn 2 Angels Peak run
the Blair rear and there's snow and everything and it's a bit
slower than in me jumped down and Lana grew down at coal and
Bridge Ice cream cone at the caravan site and then back to
you when a day and drive home huge, huge days.
Some of them are. I was I was saying that was just
a bit too far the day like and punching the head out and
desperate to get back to the car.
Nikki was surprised. They're they're, if you'd done
them and roll around at a certain time.
Two of them have now been downgraded.
They've been. Around.
So I was right in theory, but it used to be 284.
Yes, yeah. And as we've mentioned a few
times, you're part of a club that I am.
It's an exclusive club that nobody wants to be part of.
Is the dodgy heart club. And this is a cardiac.
Was it British Cardiac Month or something like that?
British Heart Month. And if you're comfortable
talking about it, how did you find out about your heart issues
and how has that affected your running?
Well, I decided to feel a palpitation, quite a strong
irregular heartbeat, maybe about 2001.
And because there was something called peroxismal atrial
fibrillation just means it's low and there isn't a discernible
underlying thing they could point to.
I just persisted that you have to try and manage the triggers
which are alcohol, caffeine, stress, excitement, exercise,
ending that punches your heart with adrenaline and stress
hormones. So I was out cycling, I did
quite a lot of cycling as well and I was out with the guys and
there's always pushing, pushing each other on, there's always
people at the front now really good numb.
I was usually hanging in the back because I've never done a
long hill run the day before, but I felt like going really
bang like. So I went away doing A&E went on
that day and and they caught it on an ECG at atrial
fibrillation. So management triggers was as I
say, well, I wasn't overweight and I'd stopped smoking and
everything a long time before that.
So, but it came back more frequent, more persistent and
for longer durations. So put me on beer blockers for a
couple of years to try and calm the rapid heart rate, but they
were about a nightmare because they shut you down and you make
you feel pretty down and, and they're not conducive.
They're doing much so I was like cheating.
I was having extra caffeine, coffee and the car dealers used
to be paired just says, well, look, I didn't agree with you
missed them out and I was cutting them in half and trying
to do whatever. I think my first this Western,
I'm waiting at a state beat of workers somehow.
But so, and then come 2007, I'd started to do a lot of research
and find out about cardiac ablation procedures.
It's not cured, but it's a pretty good treatment that that
could be effective. So I got involved with
electrophysiologist Glasgow indirectly and he agreed to do
one in 2007. So I had that and it seemed to
help for a while, but then I don't other things like atrial
what are atrial fibrillation. I could bore everybody to death
with us fibrillation, the linear wavelet storm, it just
completely takes over your electrical system and flowers
are circular one in your your atrium.
It's not quite as dangerous of debility and the whole
arrhythmia thing debility should because you get breath flash,
you get fatigue, you get all these things like and everything
becomes extremely difficult not to mention disconcerting them
because your heart suffering a rapid trajectory on its own.
So I survive for a bit per severe, but I wasn't able to
follow training plans or anything that because sometimes
I'll go out and I'll just go by and I'll have to walk a bit and
I make our door avert and sell. I might know.
So I'd walk home. So I did what I could when I
felt OK. So it was almost like binge
exercising when when I felt good, I tried to deal with the
stuff, hell reps and hell runs for like blah blah long runs.
But then it kind of came back and in 2013 I got another
ablation in Edinburgh, another electrophysiologist, and it
helped for a bit, but I was getting all sorts of other
things. I was getting various atrial
tachycardias. I'm getting significant
interracial delay. So I persevere and persevered,
but I was getting choreotropic incompetence.
That means your sinus node doesn't respond to the demands
exercise or anything like it. Not just that, like shoving your
shopping trolley or cutting your head, shoving your lawnmower,
anything that requires your heart to speed up.
My heart was just saying I'm forgetting me, I'm finished,
I've got disease, I've got disorder, I'm not speeding up.
So they've got to mention a pacemaker at that point.
I had various treadmill tests over the years and and I had 2
ones in secular block as well where where you're only so many
of your beats go through. I need to read this because I've
read so much and it's just such complicated thing and forgive me
anybody that might be listening. It's really clued up and an
adjunctional rhythm where only when some of your P waves go
through and your your AD node tries to work for your sinus
node and go backwards like so I was getting more and more
problems like electrical. They're all electrical problems
as opposed to yourself microwave Pullman problems in circulation
aspect that like so I got a pacemaker and 2020 just your
walk through the couple of cancellations before that the
hope to help the sinus node disorder, but there's an awful
lot of settings. I got one order done that had a
breathing sensor and a motion sensor cell aroma are in a
minute ventilation, but lots and lots of settings on this,
including enduring sports setting that changes algorithms
for long and short term leading marriages.
But I was still getting an awful arrhythmia.
I'm still getting persistent arrhythmia.
So the electrophysiologist in Edinburgh agreed to do another
one in 2023 to try. And it's like dam and water.
Every time you you, you burn a lot of your heart tissue, it it
starts somewhere else or breaks through somewhere because you're
relying on scarring to bridge a lot of the gaps for the rule
electrical system system and block them.
So he did that, but he wasn't convinced.
He think they might have caused another another this SVTV super
ventricular tachyrhythmia, which is just summon.
It's no atrial fibrillation or Rachel footer, just kind of
random. So he put me back on the lesson.
A year later, he done another one.
At this point, I think had become a challenge because the
new I was trying to the ultra as I was trying to run.
I was persistent. I was doing appointments to, to
see people privately and the the same people like they're very
helpful, but and, and one of the guys had started running.
So we've got to understand the, the sort of obsession of it
because running is addiction. I mean, there's addiction when
always first getting into it, it makes you feel good.
You want to do more. And then sometimes though,
you're getting the bad drugs so it's making you feel worse
because you're too tired or you're overtraining or whatever.
So I've had about 30 plus changes to my pacemaker at the
at the clinic. They're very, very helpful
because what suits me, I'm not seeing anybody else.
So I've got the feedback how I feel and whether it's too
aggressive or going up too fast, too many beats, a minute, too
slow, coming down, too fast, coming down, whether the
breathing sensor, there's no getting enough influence because
it's physiological as opposed to the the physical cell aroma when
she crossed that initial activity threshold saying you'll
be glazed. Nobody, you're like, I'm sorry,
but so there we go. I've got the pacemaker, I've got
all these problems. I've still got arrhythmias.
I get a tight chest, I get a feeling indigestion, something
that's a hit or a miss. I get very, very breathless.
I have to stop off to a very short distances.
Sometimes it's like swimming underwater and you feel like
you're suffocating. Stop, get some breath, get
going. But the guys the cardiologists
have have just said, look, just try to try to keep doing as much
as you can for as long as you can.
I've never I got told maybe about 1518 year ago cardiologist
says, and he was a great guy and great, great help.
But he just says, should you not just give up?
And I says, well, if I give it up, I'll be back here in five
years time over where you could tell me to exercise.
And he says probably last I grew up with this cardiologist that
he was, he was a plumber. So we, we got an electrician's
for specialism to, to try and do the abolitions.
And I recently had said no testing last year and they
managed to adjust amplitude settings on some of the pulses
and everything. I had the ECG connections and
the ultrasound. I was really privileged and I've
been very thankful for this treatment and all the help I've
had for everybody to try and keep me going.
And I've just tried to keep going because they've tried to
help me basically. It's been such a big part of my
life and and don't know much else.
So basically that's the heart the heart thing.
Purely electrical. I do have minor wear and tail on
a mitral valve and mildly dilated up a femur, but that's a
look of confirmed. And a lot of like garments and
Apple Watches and stuff now it's your, it's your fibrillation is
one of the things that they detect.
Do you have a watch like that and does it actually detect
anything? Well, I bought my first VPS
watch and I got my pacemaker to try and give feedback to maybe
help me tell me what I thought my heart was beating and what I
felt because that bearing in mind it's majority time as a
pacemaker, I've got a maximum patient rate and I've got a
maximum sensory to stop tracking atrial arrhythmia, 3 of my
ventricles because I've had one life threatening ventricular
arrhythmia last year that they were surprised they didn't pass
out. I have a box in the house called
the Boston Communicator and Boston Scientific Pacemaker and
I could push the button and uploads a snapshot of what my
pacemakers recorded. But I will store life
threatening events. So I'd stored this event.
So I got a call from the hospital one night and I, I just
dealt with because over the years I've felt really bad
sometimes and I try to stay calm, put my head down, try and
breathe and get over. And they were surprised I didn't
actually collapse with this one. Because if you, you've been
trying all the rhythm is if your heart still pumping, you could,
you could black out and pretty much die in a couple of minutes.
So my garment I bought a chest of trap as well, and I know my
you feel the rest one's pretty good and are pretty good, but I
wanted to make sure and to coil this.
I couldn't even tell you what it's reading it, whether it's I
think it's a ventricles because they're going out a bit slightly
less than because it's a pacemaker.
Now my pacemaker has also got a 15 beat offset to try and
encourage my heart to have intrinsic heartbeat to make you
live longer and last longer. It's detrimental to keep the
pacemaker patient all the time. So the pacemaker set at 55.
When I went in the theatre to get fitted my resting heart rate
was 38 but didn't have any problem with blocking out so
it's 55 S. My part will go down as low as
4037 on my garment and it will show that before it kicks in and
brings it back up to allow my heart to beat on its own.
So to be honest, I have no idea. It doesn't show atrial rhythmia,
it doesn't show any rate of rhythm.
But when you have this heart rate variability, you know, if
it records that and it tells you it sleeps, a nightmare, mate.
Yeah, it's a nightmare because every time I roll over,
vigorously sleep, my pacemaker kicks off because I I go above
the activity threshold. If you've got that set too low,
then it's hard to get going and if you don't have upper body
movement, the patient ain't going to no crack off anyway.
So if I'm sitting on a static bike, I've got to be rocking
about the bike. It's all quite difficult to work
on the route to actually exercise because it's not just
running, it's any exercise. It's trying to help.
So to answer your question, not in that case about it, it's it's
just it picks up stuff and it's helpful.
But my mark, if I sing my left arm a bit, my heart will just
rock it right up to the maximum in like 20 seconds no problem.
But if I use my right one, it'll barely move because the
pacemaker's in the left left hand side, for instance.
So it's difficult to do anything.
And over all the years, because I did negative splits, pretty
much all the West Island Way races, and some of that was
because I had to be within myself to try not to trigger an
arrhythmia in the early stages. It harmed a few times though,
and it's stuck on for quite a bit of the race, which is
unpleasant. You know, sure what they
stopped, where they keep going because the biggest dangers are
stroke from blood clots. But I just had to do it really
and manage it his best I could or give up, but give up.
Was there an option? Because you know, there'll be
more problems shoving my shopping trolley, hazard cutting
my glass, pushing my lawn or whatever.
So it's a difficult one. I'm not exactly sure what it's
monitoring, but I've I've gave them great feedback over the the
few years that the cardio technicians like and I always
say about boxing chocolates strictly, I'm no fed up seeing
me. I I'm sure they won't.
And talking about boxing chocolates over the years, have
you eaten boxes of chocolates during your run or how has your
fuelling changed? Well, the fueling you did have
gels when I first started doing ultras, you know, and you and
pair bar gels necessary has chills.
But predominantly when I first did the West Island way, for
instance, I was on the back, Dario spoke to you and Daria
rang the race director. The entry procedure was he'd use
the phone you up and they scribble a wee bit on an entry
form, but he'd phone you up. Well I wasn't available so he
spoke to my wife for 45 minutes and she had absolutely no idea
much of what I was doing. I was in the days on the hills,
the long cycle runs, 100 mile and stuff like this.
Ah, it seems OK. You'll be fine.
So I just shrapneling what I did on mountain days, a bad feel of
jam pieces, bananas, stuff like that.
So my first lesson and we Anka must have a dozen jam pieces.
Jam sandwich for anybody that might not understand what that
is. Bananas, ambrosia, custard
pudding and Miller rice pudding and all these were used as well.
Milkshakes, 3 loaf gels, whatever, just anything you can
really eat. I have found a handful of chips
that Kenlock leave in the same As for probably everybody.
I like the cup of tea but progress now like the event I
did the 110K nice there on the mountains was predominantly
gels. I had about 20 SIS gels, Anthea
crusts and mixed in with watermelon and alley because one
of them is the time difference. You try and eat proper food and
it sticks in your teeth and as opposed to the liquid stuff.
I took a huge box of custard pudding to France like as well
for my drop bag because it's it's much easier than rice
pudding and the milkshakes and and all these type of things.
But the nutrition's belonged on you.
There's so many products and if you find something you like that
works on you, I know again, my you're, you're a great father
proper food and it works on you. But if somebody can get by on
gels or sports shrink. When I first started the West
alley, I was drinking SIS sports shrink and I was drinking 22
camel barks, which is totally wrong. 1 1/2 liter of water, 1
1/2 liter of SIS go watermelon and trying to drink this before
the other drink to serve the hypernatchemia thing.
People flooding their body with fluid and and then not getting
any difficulty because they're not diluting their blood plasma,
their sodium and everything and end up in mental state exchanges
and end up in the hospital. So I did so that I realized that
I didn't need half a litre A litre, I just need 250 mils
roughly an hour. And I've seen that when I was
training on the route and the motor, even if it was quite warm
weather. Everybody that sell, if you're a
big person, you sweat a lot and you'll need more.
But that's probably the biggest thing that I learned over the
years. For the first few years I was OK
during the race, but I was violently sick the next day and
all the way home. And it must have been an
electrolyte imbalance, which is drinking far too much fluid but
taking a wee bit off to catch up on me once the adrenaline had
stopped and and your body was starting to think, no, I'm in a
bad state here, I'm just going to start vomiting as we lay by
so but I not so much as chain. But I'd probably still eat
custard puddings and all that type of thing.
But I drink too fast for I believed in that and it was done
on research where people saw, I don't know.
I've heard again, there's some bigger people that have thrown
up. So many so flashed on.
It's hot and and stuff. Your body's really, really good
at telling you. I'm struggling here.
I need a drink, but I'm no need. Not much of water.
The first lesson, we have done it with friends, never a bit
bigger than me. And we're ready for a jolly
here. Let's all stop for a peer at
once. Let's all have a drink and I'm
OK that I'm spinning this thing for far too much and it came
back to bite me so. And one of the questions that I
really like to ask more experienced runners like
yourself that have been doing West Highland Way in particular
for a long, long time, how has the technology and the cat
evolved from when you started to current day?
Now, I would imagine back then we didn't have Strava even like
sort of like mobile phones. What we would say is quite
straightforward now, like you could just go and no one knew
where you were. Well, the biggest changes is the
raised vest in the shoes raised vest for its lightness and its
practicali the shoes, the the although it's the older new
added all my W highway races and road shoes, every single one.
And that wasn't even when there was a lot more mud and bog.
It's everybody's thing like, but I wanted the cushion, the
cushioning because I screws in my I've got screws in my knee.
I've got a really smashed up leg.
So I wanted the cushioning and there's an awful lot of road and
hard park trail as well. So another thing is we had the
boil and the bag jackets which never really breathed at all.
So yeah, there's much water inside them and the the products
near these are phenomenal. The lightweight and the the
waterproof national visibility. But I would say shoes and
obviously the GPS watches in not the not the numerous hill races
and it's mapping a compass and stuff and the time that that
involves the cold hands. I can hardly see anything.
You see my glasses. I can barely see my watch, never
mind on that. And I ordinance survey a
compass. But it's probably that plus the
Wilden area sports drinks and sports products like which you
can't choose to use or or know like.
Although I've always used the gels like and I love the shoes
for the mountain races abroad, the tool boxes for them.
Then a lot of my Ben Nevis races, Dura.
All these power races are using washes and there was no toolbox
whatsoever. Get dripped and very light and
dried quickly. But if you smelt any stone, it
was like you have toys with a hammer where the toolbox is even
on the on the ultra lightweight ones.
They're phenomenal. I've used numerous spares, the
Salomon ultrasounds, Sense Ultras, the red and white ones,
the purple ones, all these things.
I think they're fantastic. They fit me like a glove.
I've got narrow feet, but I've also used hawkers.
The first pair of clown shoes, the the big shot of bouncy
fluorescent ones that everybody called the clown shoes.
They're great. Like they're so comfortable, but
high starch. So more chance to go over your
uncles, but I get a chance to try these things is is often a
problem because they're very expensive.
So if you get a pair of your light, go out and buy a few pair
before they change and meet them wider or something different and
doesn't agree with you, then yeah.
You said the I think it was the only, only hawkers that used to
look like clown shoes and nowadays they're almost normal.
It's you wouldn't know that they're the UP boats.
You cross rivers in them. Well, I've still got a couple of
pairs of them that are so serviceable and I've used them
to support in the West Alleyway because they really like
buffets, which is a word for slippers and Fife.
And they're so comfy just to wander a bit on.
And if you've got water under feet, it needs to be a couple of
inches deep before it goes into the hawkers.
But I, I think like everybody else is starting meeting maximal
shoes new. The the Salomons have got big
shoes and Nike and and all these Rd. rocker type maximal shoes of
just almost as big as the original clown shoes that that
come for Hawker. But it was a revolution at the
time. Like rather than being
minimalist, let's do marximalist and have huge things.
Like there's two guys since Salomon that decided on that.
So yeah. And we've mentioned lots of
races. Next question might not be a
race, might just be something you've done.
What is the biggest adventure or achievement that you've had?
Never got one there because they've all, they've all been,
they've all been achievement at the time.
When I finished in the Rose, as you say, I'm I'm delighted.
I was the first person to attend sub 24 hour W Allen ways.
The five UTNBS, they're similar. I started the UTNBS 7 times like
I've finished at 5:00. So I've been fortunate to I've
told the atmosphere at the at the church.
The only race I've ever run and punch the air when I finish is
the Glencoe Skyline 2017. The costs are relentless as a
ratio to submit ACVA, claiming experience, scrambling
experience, and I'm hit there with me next to stand next to
killing when someone in common would both finish the UT MB A
fortnight before it. So he was in the front, I was in
the back. So I'm thinking there's going to
be something similar here. But that was relentless because
they reserve the right to withdraw at any point.
So I'm thinking I got through the cut off of the road and
they're going to let me climb up to the here, say sorry Paul, we
have too slow because they only go through there by minutes and
they're the same. But I'm really doing that West
Island way. It's getting dark.
I thought I know where I'm going.
I don't need a head torch and there was only my wife, 3
Marshalls or something and it was only a bunch there.
I felt so ecstatic it finished that race.
That was brilliant. Another achievement that I felt
was fantastic was claiming one block twice, once the Paul
Giblin and I enjoyed it that much.
I went back the following year and claimed it on my own.
It was just a a spectacular day and a challenge and I'm lucky
with the weather and and got away with it fine.
I mentioned earlier that an awful lot of cycling I've done 2
stages of the top of the two which is like a stage of the
Tour for amateurs. One had done the Pyrenees and
one of the Knox and they were brilliant because not just
claiming the mountains on your bike.
You have 55 mile an hour descents and I love that well
motorbike experience and the crowds are out and people are
alley alley and photos of water on your neck and that that was
absolutely unbelievable. 5 Chancellor carrier finishes just
a such spectacular event. I'll know I go around here in
the night and I have to mention the finish the first UT MB MCC,
which is the the race for the kind of locals and people that
have managed to be lucky to get an entry like my cell.
And I'd fractured my proxy of humorous when a mountain fall 3
weeks to pour it in Chamonix and I had this ultra stuff when I
was in the hostel and they're going to put metal work in it.
And in the back of my mind, I was thinking, I wonder if I
could throw the line here in three weeks at the chase for the
being very fortunate to get an entry.
And my wife was kind of like seeing the the great March.
And she just doesn't say anything like and she's I'm
gonna have a go at the fishing. I thought you might.
So it was 4 in the rain, 3° the snow or one of the colds.
But I managed to finish and that was such a relief.
And again, I felt that was a fantastic achievement.
But I think the biggest land of, and I've not mentioned this
early on, forgive me, but I just got started running and then I
went 46 races in two years. And then I had a bar accident on
my motorbike coming back from Glencoe.
And then my Stabia Plateau was shattered in seven bits and it
was broken for the day and I broke my rib finger on stores
and everything. But it was such a class.
So big break in Perth Hospital. The senior consultancies, we're
going to try and fix this. It's too dangerous, too
difficult. But there's a student that I
taught in the then where I was here, enjoy trying to fix this.
So they sent me along There it was.
It was early days of the fixation stuff for routine kind
of things. They're explosion flashers.
So he put an external fixator on some internal screws and away I
went with that for three months and then had a hinge plaster
cast on a full plaster cast and it wasn't healing.
So he says, can you try and stress it?
Boy, I tried to stress it. I was out walking 10 miles,
hinge plastered cast on. I had my mum and Gayle up my
local airport until we have full plastered casting and crutches.
I was in a rucksack. We waited catalogues balls a lot
on stuff to stress even more. It bent not much that it went
from 5° twelve 1530° and it was flexing at the knee and it was
really painful. I could barely walk when I was
feeling sick. But thankfully the
consultancies, I'm going to have to try and straighten that.
And it was like to me, wow, there is a Santa Claus because
it just got so bad. I would never been able to walk
properly. What was that?
I know that the straightening operation is going to be worse
than the accident. So he took me in.
I got a couple of cancellations. I went in and Christmas Eve, I
think it was in December, May 8th, he he broke or thought
about, he put in another 11 screws in the screws that were
already there in a six inch plate.
Took a bone graft over my hip, jumped in at the guard, pulled
the legs in to try and stick the bone graft.
And I had another ages off my work trying to rehab with us
trying to walk on it and walk on it.
And meanwhile I was trying to still do some banros and I was
rehabbing and getting back on the go again by the much better
job than vore. It was pretty much straightened
by starting to get all these problems. 2000 and one 2002
redness local inflection for the the bottom screw and one of the
plate was arcing against the plate like an electrolyte
hanging. It was causing the whole red
redness through the leg and caused localized infection pain
and burning. So it took me back and took out
nine of the screws and the six inch plate and I'd ask to
consult, can I have all that mail work?
Says OK, so enough things up with the stuff all covered in
both the plastic bags, says your honour.
The the consultant says you have to get this and there's nobody
usually that screws their plates or I've got as a souvenir.
So anyway, I've started to build myself back up again and
unfortunately just right at the back of that bag, my heart
started to go. So it was trying to work
rendering light. But that's probably my biggest
achievement. My rehab was just extreme, but
boy didn't learn me the mental strength and develop that to try
and get through ultras after getting through other trauma
catastrophic injuries at the time.
So, and unfortunately though I've been lucky all these years
to get away with what I've done with all the osteoarthritis I've
had in that knee, but it's new cracking and crunching and
creaking and unstable and giving way.
So I'm basically limping a bit new.
And I'm, I used to love the sense the rougher the better,
but I'm pretty slow new. But such is life.
I'm getting pretty old new and I'll keep doing it.
But that's I've still been in a nutshell.
But I've been pleased with everything I've managed to do
and eating the 10 KS and the halfs and stuff like that.
I'm not saying Aidan, they were wonderful coming from a
background they smoked for 18 years and totally a life I never
expended. Expecting the people I've met an
achievement shared with people like have been so much sweeter
as well so. I think in the time that I've
been doing this podcast with Mike, I genuinely think that's
been one of the best answers for the achievement question because
we ask it to most guests and that's phenomenal, Bob.
So quite right as well. I would be saying all about all
of it as well. Another recent question for me
off of the back of the achievement question.
I'm curious will they keep all your goblets?
We and I got this house about 20 year ago.
There was the guy was a joiner that they built it and there's
sort of old fashioned cabinets along the living room wall where
like a mantelpiece store the fit on one of the shelves.
But she's fine. So they're in there.
So that's not the reason. I thought I would love to go
back and get another one but that's not anyway so that's fine
build. Another shelf.
So I was, I was perfect. There was a space to stuff them
in like and and it was just ideal.
And it's a nice reminder when I look at them as some spectacular
adventures, memories. And aside from telling your
cardiologist that you'll put on weight if you don't do it, why
do you dumb? Well, originally you know, say
to the lifestyle change, I still like partying and we're still
going to a bit, but I just, I was, I've been trying to stop
smoke for about 7 years and never lasted any more in a few
weeks. So I was a determined effort and
then once I'd experienced was like to be fit, I'll become
evangelical. And and I mean, it's true.
You bored people that don't run in that line because they didn't
get it. Then it start.
I mean, honestly say it was addiction.
I couldn't get enough of it. If I was lucky that my heart
wouldn't go bowing, I would go out and planted him and be 5
mil. I'd stay in day 10.
It was just great. So training was probably too
much and then too much. I didn't have enough rest.
But and they gave me time. It helped me cope as well over
the time. But I was pointed out to me by a
clinical psychologist that was helping GAIL and I to help me to
help her deal with phonic pain. So there wasn't much hope
medically. And that she seems your
husband's up there on the roof is just another level of stress,
another much stresser than running because I was trying to
fit in runs and get back to do other things.
There wasn't any relaxing. I'm away here and snail in the
flowers. And again, I was always like
I've got to go and I'm hopefully in the foot hearts too long and
I'm going to get back. So there is a thin line between
the good drugs and the bad drugs.
Like especially on all charge you have this.
There's one thing 2009 in West Iowa way.
I got terrible first half, brilliant second-half.
I just got faster and faster and I felt better and better.
First time in music, no support runner goes at the top of
Devil's Staircase. I've got the tunes then the
sun's still out. It was reasonable time at night
and the Verve walking man come on with a guitar and throw the
Holland guitar gets to the top. I look back, there's a less more
everybody knows what it's like. The music was there and all that
was missing. If you've seen Nicolas Cage in
the rope when he's trying to stop the plane coming and he
bangs he 2 flares then and they're up near.
That's all it was missing in the helicopters, you know, in the
video. And I just turned in and headed
downhill to Kenrock leaving which is one of my favorite pets
just memories like that they take you back that huge hit and
the same thing all the shorter races you met people you meet
them all the time is a great tapes in the village hall cup of
tea acrylic and the one that you have fauna booting Bogue and mud
the hell races you've been nervous.
You've never felt you you put enough wreck enough effort.
And if you didn't have a stint elbow or a stint near a smashed
forehead broke my hand one year and managed to finish like and
and I collapsed in the premier ran into this knee after the
West Island wheel like and broke three ribs and punctured my lung
on the the the toilet room, which I used to use is when
people say what's the worst running related injury?
And that was that again. And I've expressed that to
people when they think if you're going to pass it, it's the 1050
minutes after it. Well, not necessarily because
that was about an hour and 30 minutes.
I think it was just the exercise associated posterior
hypertension. I'd been lying down for about
half an hour needed a pee, got a darkness, then you walk at the
extractor fan wake my wife nothing on lifted the toilet
room being a gentleman and that final head there was on I'm
going here trying to turn the light on.
Bang went to the room and broke the ribs and punctured my lung
nightmare. So always sat doing look after.
If you're supporting people, keep an eye on them because it
could just conclude without any warning.
So I many reasons and it's changed over so over the year,
Nikki like from when I started to new.
I'm just trying to keep going. I'm just trying to have an
adventure and hope there's another adventure and realizing
that they'll be coming to an end it shortly, probably a bit.
I still want to keep trying because to get back, it helps me
in my daily life. If you're active up to this
level, then stuff at last level becomes a bit more manageable.
So I'll just keep trying to do someone.
And I love the community. I love everybody I've met, all
the people I've shared time with and people say that they feel
they know what I'll be a hanger on and I get that as well-being.
You mentioned the pile and things.
I've often felt like hanging around because I've not been
able to go in some of the runs, maybe because I know I'm going
to have to stop and it's no because I'm not trying hard
enough or or I've not enough training.
And you just feel self-conscious.
So the older you get, just as an individual, you feel you get
rubbed out a bit of time, you become invisible.
It's like back to the future. You're just becoming more and
more you're just an old guy for the UK to do it.
Or, or I might have been different than your day bait
cannon. So I don't know.
I was just I'm probably just given here because there's so
many answers to that over 30 plus years really.
So when I started, like I remember my first half Mars and
it was scorching hot and I'm a conqueror to 10 mile thing.
This is a crazy idea. I'm hating this.
I'm never doing it again in one of the first race and within a
couple of years I've done 45 events and I've hit 30 half
marathons like and and I couldn't get enough of just
loved it under cycling as well. It was great.
Although the good thing about the cycling you get downhill,
you didn't get that too and and rather you've got to keep going
all the time now. I was listening to a podcast for
Lucy Calhoun and she was saying that she feels that sort of
hanging on, you're just a has been.
And I actually think that that is, it's not right.
It's upsetting that somebody like yourself, somebody like
Lucy who has been there, done it.
People nowadays, they're not thinking that you're a has been
or it might be because they don't know about your story
while you're telling your story tonight.
And I think they need to hear it and respect it.
I don't, I don't even know know what to say about it.
But it's you're there because you've earned the place, not
because you're hanging on. Hi.
Thanks, Michael. I'll probably a wee bit happier
that I managed to finish a couple of big events last year.
I mentioned Lucy there. I know Lucy.
I've known her for a long time, realized person.
What she did was phenomenal, like from people like myself
that were just trying to finish like.
But on the race in 2007 she broke the record.
I was supporting my mate who was fourth, so I was right next to
Lucy quite a bit as she was progressing up the West Highland
way. So it was a great memory as
well. I've seen her on that day.
I did my first ablation like a month before it and I turned up
at the start and Daria was going you're not running, you're not
getting to run because I just thought I thought about it.
But my wife, she's no way, no way you're doing that like 4
weeks after that and tomorrow she need time for it to settle
down like that. I was, I was really keen.
You are keen the the things that you must think about are I, I, I
would say that health is obviously there when you're
running, but what is it you think about the most when you're
running? Well, nowadays it's trying to
breathe and, and and hardly stop and, and what my heart's doing.
It's impossible to get away from it, sadly.
And I've bored hundreds of people probably.
But as soon as I get up in the morning and I put my T-shirt and
move my hands, it kicks off and I know I've got to sit down
again until it settles down. And when I go out for another,
I'm trying to do some burpees at the back or jump up and down or
run back and forth and then trying to get settled in.
So it's pretty consuming. Apart from that, I'm moving to
where my feet go, tripping on things, the usual stuff that
everybody thinks. And I'm thinking she'll adjust
my pacemaker. Has it gone too fast?
Is it not going fast enough? Well, why am I doing this?
Why that is doing this. I'm free, I'm always full
because it's affected by hemodynamics as well circulation
in the blood flow and oxygen within the rate you'll delay the
valves and open and shut the right thing.
So it's I'm desperate to get back to warmer weather and so
that I can feel pleasant with Yeah, it's nicer weather.
You can just walk a bit when it's cold.
I've got to go dressed as I walk in trying runner, the dresser
runner. And then I'm freezing.
So and a lot of time I've, I will put some music on the
podcasts, your podcasts and I've watched loads of them and
they're brilliant. And it's great to hear other
people, other people's stories. So I just try and just like I've
used a gym for the last 10-15 years so that helps.
When it's cold, I'll hike on a gradient on a stepper and I'll
try and do some runs and and I'll go.
I like going to stunt classes as well.
So it all helps keep the general fitness so that the reason I'm
doing this is hopefully getting the summer and I can still go up
the hills and at least I can run down and do what I can.
And going forward, what would be your dream race or on the bucket
list race? Have you got many on that list?
Well, as I mentioned earlier, it's long, fast since I can sort
of pick a race target, train properly and go and do some
races. So realistically it's just
things that are invariably involved during the holiday.
So I entered the Madeira Island Ultra Trail and then the April,
but it's a bad time of year for me.
It's too cold. I've had umpteen chest
infections, whatever, but I'll have a go.
And we've got we've got a holiday booked.
A friend that's persuader friends then had me went into
one of the shorter races in the grand field called my yard and
Italy and beginning of July and another one that I've done
before that was on trail, a shorter one in the near
Shalmany. And then I have managed to make
myself CCC and the UTNB. So that'll be a real big
challenge to to make the cut offs.
So but I'll give it a go. So realistically, I'm building
myself to try and if I go a 5K part run, I've never done a part
run. I've barely, I mean, I'm trying
to run a few kilometres with each storm and I'd love to just
I bought my first pair of big bouncy shoes.
I bought a pair of, they're not quite that bouncy like a pair of
the Nova Blasts, and I've been trying to sneak out on the roads
again a wee bit to try and see if I can run.
So ultimately I would love to be able to just go along and do a
10K or something like that, but everybody expects you're running
when you've stopped after 100 meters.
It's a bit embarrassing because you're trying to get somewhere
and then start again. But now I've by these I've got
any big events. Well, new events, and that's
where I've picked ones that are mountain.
I've got a chance of hiking up and as long as I can.
Gravity seems to help me a big sale.
It seems to suit my settings a bit bare, so I could still do
doing hell of it. I'm pretty good on technical
training. To me, just to phase me, the
more technical the better because it slows everybody else
up. All these boners and free and
all that sort of thing. And then just trying to make cut
offs. And obviously I've got a better
experience about nutrition, getting a newer checkpoints cap.
Can mental sense keep them going?
And then your true grip channelling your true grip,
whatever, whatever you need to do.
So that's next for me. So keep my fingers close and
keep trying to do summing up the Romans.
That's some difference, Bob Mountain races to Park Run.
You know, I the, the reason I'll pick that is there's probably
like a maybe 1000 people and just hiding them almost at the
back and, and try and get window.
I think I managed a 5K there before Christmas and I don't
know, 36 minutes or something, but everything has full grass.
For me. That's the problem.
My pacemaker is way up high. I can't get any breath when it's
doing low. So having full gas, which is
probably detrimental maybe to my long term health, but I'm way
beyond the rhythmical. I knew for really worrying about
whether I've hammered my heart beyond the redemption and it's
that's what I say for years and to have some memories back here
one way for the other. Is this there?
One life, live it. And next question is, is there
anybody, either fictional, real, alive or not that you would like
to go for a run with? All the friends that I've met
over the years and I've spent time in the mountains and on the
trails and I would love to go back in every one of them.
And sadly there's quite a few that are no longer here that
I've had spectacular memories. So really the people have have
shared and and had these great times with the karma rather just
mentioned earlier where we were friends wrote in a place.
I'm not Banner, the race anonymous, just part of it, but
great days, shared suffering, shared challenges, shared
achievements, excellent disappointment.
We're doing them in Rose. I've done them because I never
really knew anybody. I probably did 98% of
Monroeville moan. Then I'd come back and my wife
can get subjected to the boredom.
Oh my, what I see yesterday shot across the river.
Last thought I was gone in every weekend.
All these stories that you might have shared with other people
without a laugh. But not just everybody I've ever
known. I've had the pleasure and I've
been lucky to meet some wonderful people and and share
the trails in the mountains when the social side, after having a
beer and laughing at laughing about things and people with
stones hanging off their trails and there's a no bought another
pair and all these daft stories like.
So as much as I like to sit down with a cup of coffee with Kelly
and her Sunday and crack away, I'm like, no, I just saw the
people I've known and and all the people are all their
friends. Killian would be honoured to
have a coffee with you, Bob, or all your achievements.
We'll probably get advice from you so.
If you realize once we get started or there's no stuff on
this. So if you've got any specific
questions, I can probably gain some sort of information.
And this has been a fantastic chat, Bob.
So once again, thank you so much for coming on.
Unless Mike has any other questions, we like to finish off
on philosophical note for runners who are facing setbacks,
whether it be physical, emotional, life shifting, which
you've got much experience in, what mindsets carried you
through the hardest times you've been through?
Well, a lot of the the problems that you may get are
unavoidable. And if you want to remain like
in those circumstances, you've got to sort of find a way to
deal with them or you've got to walk away.
And pretty much everything that's been presented to me
avoided to be in that situation and had to well know what to be
in situation, but I had to deal with it can probably talk here
on a personal basis, right? But it's the same as like ultras
getting through trauma, bones, heart problems.
Get as much information as you can that might help you deal
with that problem or might help you to find somebody that might
help you to deal with that problem or a way to deal with
the butts and downs. Black clouds.
I've had a lot of black clouds. A lot of dark days are feeling
like feeling helpless and hopeless but trying to look at
the small steps. Same again as an ultra.
The, the next checkpoint or, or the next day, the next, the
bottom of the hill, the top of the hill, the bottom of the hill
again, Do you need talk about admin?
And I just looked at physical and mental management like, do
you need somebody? Do you need to pee?
Do you think you need to pee? You want to stop?
You need a rest. You want somebody to drink?
You drink too much. You're not too fast, you're not
too slow, you're too cold, too warm.
Take your jacket off, put it back on.
What are these type of things? And it's I found a lot of stuff
to do with my heart problem. One more I was lucky.
I randomly emailed cardiologist and I got replies and I found
out things. And then I was very fortunate.
I got a great consult with my leg.
But finding what you can do yourself, break it down small
steps. If you need the fresh air, clear
your head, go outside, go for a walk, go talk to somebody, get
up the mountains, appreciate nature and and then try and look
what you have got because of me. I'm a kind of half empty guy a
lot of the time. I've had low esteem throughout
my life and I don't remember. That's where I keep trying to do
these things. I keep hoping that I'll achieve
them. It's I mean, it seems daft like
that. So try and get yourself part in
the back noon again for what you have achieved and no, beat
yourself up and and again get back.
You've only won life. So and it's never going to be
perfect. You're all going to make
mistakes and struggle and and we're all human and we're all
frail and and they're always going to be someday better,
faster, higher, longer or more often.
You know what I mean? You're an experiment and one as
you're saying, and you just want to try and work for your best.
But you know, chilling when you're in a True Grit like and
digging in, keeping going, do your best, do what you can and
whatever you've done, it's an achievement and it's success.
And if it's no like, just try and move on and learn further.
There are more things new there. There's so many social influence
and then folk me a lot of these sort of lifestyle kind of
hearts. I hate that word show the word
tip, but I just just go for it yeah, where she can and always
go to the things getting in the way and try and overcome them
and. I think that's brought us to a
close for tonight and we might have lost some people with the
detail that you went into in your your heart problems, but.
That's OK. Because we were fascinated about
it. Apologise.
I've been awful. I guess you think there was some
people because you've been bored and talking too much like that.
No, no, it. Wasn't boring, it was just it
was so technical it's. It's important to mention that
some of the technicalities. I apologise about that.
And if anybody wants to get in, I had a message with somebody
that night that a friend's got some.
I've got an arrhythmia problem. Can I give you my name?
I'm quite happy to, but I mean as a long complicated journey
and and I've never got the question of your hallucinations.
Well, every every year. What?
I've got a cracker for that. I've got what?
Is the you've done many races that have taken you through
mountains up and down the West Highland Way.
What is your best solution nation during it?
My first life silent waves, like starting at 2:00 in the morning.
And so you're getting a wee bit dark and I had the standard ones
like you're seeing white reflections.
You think there's a mini boss or animals or whatever.
And I did have frogs jumping in front of you and there were real
frogs when that last bit of Landava because it was pretty
money. But first UTMB 2011 never been
in that type of mountain race. I hadn't been at altitude.
I've been cycling there and all the Tour de France stages, but
so kicks off the way to half 11 at night.
So the sleep deprivation is going to do the box in total it
was 65 hours up 8 there in the morning takes storm coming in.
It's going to start at half 11 at night.
Fine, pour in the rain. They've got -10 snow three
everything going coldest saying on an the halfway point.
So they changed the route. I know what you mean.
You're getting texts. I was in the look there.
So as long as there's somebody there and they're not stopped
now, I'll just keep going. So I'm keeping going and they've
changed the route. Bovine checkpoint got blown away
because there was too windy and too dangerous for the marshals.
So they really reroute your way in the Martingale.
So I'm coming down to Martingale and some of you, I'm thinking
this is Valor scene. So 6:00 in the morning, think
I'm doing great. Thank you.
I'm getting the sun license though, and I'm getting the full
farted away. And I thought, bra, so the ghost
in the tailing and I see all these people going up and doing
vineyards on the path. I thought we were going up
there. Now we're up this road towards
these vineyards and they're just adding on there and climb there
and there's a few young guys lying about the road there that
time in the morning smoking a flashlight and they've got the
bottle of wine and they're they're all looking to fuck you
guys there and say what are you doing with?
So anyway, I guess in the ball I've seen, I've not got a clue.
I've bought these Mizuno wave higher than no toolbox.
It was too small. My feet were absolute agony.
So I popped a couple of paracetamol and chlorine
tablets. So I'm probably saying these
must have had an effect. So I guess that's an evaluation.
We're in the marquee and walks here.
I told it for the I'm in a race. So I gets on the phone early,
mobile phone, phones up. My wife, I say what's the
quickest way to Chamonix and she thinks I've had a soak.
So she's shouting George, George, St.
George, George, talk to him like I think he's in a soak and I'd
say to George got a minibus. So he's asked about the minibus.
So George comes a phone. Just ask for some directions
there just ask for some direction and I noticed I had a
number on and the American comes there and says what's your
problem meet us. He's there What's the what's the
weight of Shammi? She's oh you've come in the
Marquis at all. Why are we like track 1 and go
back early. I've not a clue I'm full I'm on
the phone. I don't know it's a
hallucination or a brain fade like that.
I blamed or anyone eventually got finished was in the evening
at the fog 2:00 in the morning and sleep degradation but that
was a cracker and it's the only one the only ever one of had
Mike is keeping thinking people are behind you keep turning
around and keep thinking people are behind you in the dark.
I don't know the shadows or sharp from your rock sack or or
something like that like that. If you get a hallucination, good
value for money, definitely. Well, I forgot on that same race
prior to that near Champriolac, you go see woods every night and
I'm thinking I'm seeing a big spider and what a wizard was
actually against having his mountain bike at a puncture.
And it was like 1:00 in the morning and he had fluorescent
smokes and there were my head tortures hitting them.
And I'm seeing this thing going bottle for it.
And then shortly the back of that I'm apologizing to a couple
that are sitting under a tree slogging.
Was he there? I have no idea.
I don't know what I don't know what my head touching.
I literally there was some in there that looks like 2 people
and then embrace. I'm sorry, I don't know
modernist, but that's OK taking you back.
It's such an intention and I'll let you go in.
Thank you. Bob, it has been fantastic.
There's one I, I think, and I think Nicky, I agree with this.
There's a saying that I think Bob sums us up and it's we don't
stop because we grow older. We grow older because we stop,
and there's no stopping for Bob so.
Absolutely. Thank you.
Thanks. That's a nice SharePoint then,
mate. Thank you.
So it's just from me. Thank you, Nicky for being
Nicky. Thank you, Bob, for all the
detail, all the the openness of everything and it's goodbye for
me. Thanks very much for inviting
me. Thank you.
Take care. Bye.