1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,960 Welcome to Sheeper Assisted. I'm your host Sadie Sutton, a 19 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,440 year old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,040 University of Pennsylvania. Sheeper Assisted is the teen 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,880 mental health podcast made for teenagers by a teen. 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,120 In each episode I'll bring you authentic, accessible and 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,440 relatable conversations about every aspect of mental Wellness 7 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,000 you can expect. Evidence based teen approved 8 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,080 resources, coping skills including lots of DBT insights 9 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,680 and education, and each piece of content you consume. 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,480 She Persisted offers you a safe space to feel validated and 11 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:40,160 understood in your struggle while encouraging you to take 12 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,440 ownership of your journey and build your life worth living. 13 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,720 So let's dive in. This week on She Persisted. 14 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,160 I am a big believer that everybody's 100% responsible for 15 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:54,120 their 50% of the relationship. I think that sometimes we have a 16 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,200 lot of information on the Internet that's like be counter 17 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,880 dependent, which means everybody should just take care of 18 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,480 themselves and nobody should look out for each other. 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,840 And that's unhealthy. That's not how we evolved and 20 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,960 survived as human beings. But we have to draw the line 21 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:10,120 where we don't make ourselves responsible for that person's 22 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,200 emotional state or well-being because that's where we go into 23 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,480 codependency. And then we're not showing up 24 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,920 for the relationship to ourselves because we're so hyper 25 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,400 fixated on others. Hello, hello and welcome to 26 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,160 another episode of She Persisted. 27 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,080 I'm so excited for this one. I think you guys are absolutely 28 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:26,800 going to love it. We are talking about 29 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,960 relationships and attachment theory. 30 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,320 This is something that I think a lot of people identify really 31 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:34,480 strongly with. And hearing about attachment 32 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,840 styles, they're like, that's me. I am hearing these traits that I 33 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:39,600 myself have. And so I think you guys are 34 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,560 going to really have that experience when you're listening 35 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,240 to this episode. Today's guest is Tyuse Gibson. 36 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,040 She's a best selling author, counselor, speaker and founder 37 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:49,560 of the Personal Development School. 38 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,720 And we talk about so many different things, but we talk 39 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,640 about what exactly the subconscious is, how our 40 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:59,320 childhood experiences impact us, the four main attachment styles 41 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,240 and what they say about us. We talked about how you can form 42 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,520 a more secure attachment style, different needs and fears that 43 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,000 show up in relationships depending on your attachment 44 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,080 style, and also some challenges that come up when you're 45 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:15,400 specifically in that insecure attachment style bucket. 46 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:18,240 We talked about being on the other side of the table. 47 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,440 So if you're in a relationship with someone that has an 48 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,760 insecure attachment style, how can you navigate that more 49 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,720 effectively? We talked about codependent 50 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,400 relationships, conscious parenting, how siblings play 51 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,400 into this, which I think is really interesting, and also 52 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,240 birth order, which is a hot topic. 53 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,240 And then lastly, how you can figure out your own attachment 54 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,880 style and other resources. So I think you guys are going to 55 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,840 absolutely love this. I cannot wait for you to listen. 56 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,640 I hope you're having a good start to your semester if you're 57 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:46,480 a student. If not, I hope you're having a 58 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,080 good. Fall so far. 59 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,360 It is busy busy as I'm recording this. 60 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,400 I'm taking the GRE tomorrow and I have like 67 different 61 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,880 assignments due for school. So it's a busy, busy week, but I 62 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,680 hope you guys are doing well. And as always, make sure leave a 63 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,320 review, subscribe, share, send me a message about what you 64 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,960 think about the episode. If you post about Instagram 65 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,120 stories and tag me, you can be entered to win a Starbucks gift 66 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:11,680 card. So more information on that in 67 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,240 the show notes. But I really hope you guys love 68 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,080 this. And with that, let's dive in. 69 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,400 Well, thank you so much for joining me today on She 70 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,360 Persisted. I'm so excited to have you on 71 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,480 the show and dive into this conversation. 72 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,960 Thank you for having me. I think it's great what you're 73 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:26,640 doing. Thank you. 74 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,080 So to give people some background who are not familiar 75 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,600 with your history and your work that you've done in your career, 76 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,280 I would love to get into your context and how you got into 77 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,960 this area of the mental health space. 78 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,040 You are someone that a lot of people look to for advice and 79 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,000 guidance and an expert that speaks on so many things, 80 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,000 whether it's family systems or CBT and attachment therapy, 81 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,960 which I'm sure people have heard whether they've been to therapy 82 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,040 or they're on talk because these are very hot topics at the 83 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,720 moment. But to kind of go back, how did 84 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,640 you get interested in this part of the mental health space and 85 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,160 how did you get to this point? Yeah, I think a big part of it 86 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,960 was honestly just that I came from a household where there's a 87 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,080 lot of chaos and, and a lot of ups and downs and like a bit of 88 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,160 a roller coaster. And so I was always really 89 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,720 curious about the human experience and, and people and 90 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,560 human behavior. And so from a very young age, I 91 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,320 definitely, you know, wondered why people interact the way that 92 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,120 they do. And then I think by the time I 93 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,040 was a teenager, I was kind of going through my own big 94 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,240 challenges, just mentally, emotionally, coming out of a 95 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,400 household with so much chaos, just kind of trying to find my 96 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,520 way in the world. And I ended up doing a lot of 97 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,520 like deep inner self work around a whole bunch of different 98 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:42,800 things. And, you know, eventually that 99 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,200 led me to sort of revisit attachment theory. 100 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,360 And I was in school for psychology, but I was really 101 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,640 understanding and learning a lot about not just attachment 102 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,680 theory, but also the subconscious mind because at one 103 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,160 point I had somebody just who said to me like your conscious 104 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,880 mind can't out will or overpower your subconscious mind. 105 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,720 And so I was having this experience a lot of times in my 106 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,840 own personal life of like telling myself I was going to 107 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:06,760 change my behaviors, but not really seeing the change. 108 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:12,080 And that was very validating for me because I was like, oh, it's 109 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,560 because my conscious mind intends to, to change my 110 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:16,640 behaviors, but my subconscious mind has basically other 111 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,680 motives. And what I learned is that your 112 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,600 subconscious mind is actually responsible for 95 to 97% of all 113 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,280 of our beliefs or thoughts or emotions or decisions. 114 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,200 And your conscious mind is just three to 5%. 115 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,320 So basically when we get into the situation of having these 116 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,720 like ups and downs or these push pull patterns and we want to 117 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,280 change them, so much of it is because of our own internal 118 00:05:37,280 --> 00:05:39,760 conditioning. So really set out on a journey 119 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:41,360 to understand like, well, what is mine? 120 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,520 What are my condition patterns? What are my beliefs and my 121 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,320 thoughts and my emotional patterns and what is serving me 122 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,440 and what's not? And how can I actually rewire or 123 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,680 recondition what hasn't been serving me? 124 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,520 And then I found that that's fit very neatly into patterns of 125 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,280 attachment styles and how we can really reshape those things too. 126 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:01,360 I think what's really cool about the sheep assisted audience is 127 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,160 that a lot of people haven't done all that self work yet. 128 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,600 They haven't completely explored like what their subconscious 129 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,480 belief systems are or what patterns have emerged from their 130 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,760 family of origin. And if they're listening, 131 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,120 they're really interested about understanding this more so they 132 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,760 can approach this from a much more educated and informed 133 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,920 perspective and hopefully less trial and error and more kind of 134 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,280 going into it with more confidence and support. 135 00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:31,400 And so for people that probably have heard of the subconscious 136 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,600 or I've heard about these patterns that we make but aren't 137 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,600 necessarily being intentional about, can you explain that a 138 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,000 little bit more? Like what kind of compiles that 139 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,280 subconscious? And then what experiences lead 140 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:44,680 to that, whether it's our families of origin or 141 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,760 relationships or certain age demographics that have a really 142 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,840 big impact on that? Can you kind of explain that for 143 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:52,320 people that aren't familiar? Absolutely. 144 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,280 So basically what happens is our subconscious mind, you can think 145 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:56,640 of as being like a giant warehouse. 146 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,080 It stores all of your memories over time. 147 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,640 Now it does consolidate those memories. 148 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,160 So sometimes we can slightly misremember things or remember 149 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,040 things more by emotional association. 150 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,680 Like if we think of times we felt really frustrated or 151 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,800 trapped, you may have all these sort of specific memories coming 152 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,560 flooding forward. And so we'll store things often 153 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,920 by association. But you can basically think of 154 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,320 your conscious mind as being your logical thinking self. 155 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,320 You're part of you that you identify with most of your sense 156 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,760 of self, the rational part, the one that thinks through things 157 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,360 or sort of analyzes things and you're subconscious is basically 158 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,720 your program self. So if you get in your car every 159 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,280 day, you know how to drive a car. 160 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,280 You don't have to consciously think about it like, OK, make 161 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,480 sure I move the steering wheel left and right or make sure I 162 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,760 hit the gas and the brakes. Like these are programs you've 163 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,120 learned how to do things over time. 164 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,440 Now it's not just our programs for how to ride a bike or how to 165 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,480 drive a car. It's like all of our programs 166 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,400 ever about what we believe about relationships, for example, what 167 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,000 we believe about ourselves as a person, what we believe about 168 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,040 things like trust or connection or what we fear. 169 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:03,560 And so we have all of this, you know, huge, huge storage system 170 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,840 of all of these different belief patterns. 171 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,840 And you can think of that subconscious mind as being the 172 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,160 lens that you see and interact with the world through. 173 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,480 So if you have a lot of like fear based beliefs about 174 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,960 relationships, because perhaps in your family of origin, you 175 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,280 had a lot of scary times in your household growing up, then 176 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,360 you're going to see those same fears play out or you're going 177 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,960 to assume those fears onto your current environment. 178 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,840 And I'll give some like really concrete examples that people 179 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,159 probably will relate to. If you ever had an experience 180 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:37,720 where you felt like people weren't there for you enough or 181 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,120 consistently enough, and maybe you felt this kind of fear of 182 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,760 being abandoned or, or felt feelings of abandonment. 183 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,000 Chances are very high that as an adult in your romantic 184 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,040 relationships, you know you're going to move into a space where 185 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,720 you're like, oh, I'm gonna be abandoned and you're gonna 186 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:57,320 assume you are past onto your present and future experiences. 187 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,560 By the same token, if somebody's ever hurt you by really breaking 188 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:04,120 your trust as a child, when you go into those early adult 189 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,280 relationships as a teenager or in your early adult years, 190 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,680 you're gonna find yourself going, oh, I can't trust people. 191 00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:13,560 And assuming that onto relationships or if you grew up 192 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:16,280 feeling like you needed a lot of space and you didn't want to 193 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,960 feel trapped and that's how you felt, you felt smothered or 194 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,520 engulfed or trapped as a child. Well, then you're gonna, if 195 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,040 you're that in your adult life. So basically what happens is 196 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,560 there a subconscious mind is the big collector, the big warehouse 197 00:09:27,560 --> 00:09:31,000 of all of this information? It's our programmed self. 198 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,920 And it's all the things that we do without thinking, all the 199 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,880 natural things that will project onto our environment and 200 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,320 whatever we were exposed to in our upbringing that was 201 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,120 repetitive and that also created an emotional output. 202 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,960 So, you know, feelings of of happiness repeatedly or feelings 203 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,600 of sadness or frustration repeatedly, whatever was 204 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,520 repetitive and emotional are what fire. 205 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,000 And why are these neural networks in our mind that 206 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:01,400 actually form this subconscious space that we are programmed 207 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:02,800 from? That's literally how the 208 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,000 programming forms as a whole. And so that's how we end up 209 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,600 interacting with our environment and where we literally assume 210 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,040 our future will be so much like our past. 211 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:16,720 Yeah, it's so interesting and especially how attachment styles 212 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,240 play into this because like you're saying, we have a lot of 213 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,080 expectations for things and then we also subconsciously follow 214 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,280 similar patterns. So when people hear about 215 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,720 attachment styles for the first time, you're like, Oh my gosh, 216 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,920 it's describes me to AT it's almost like astrology where 217 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,400 people are like, yes, I'm exactly that sign, or that's 218 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,520 exactly what happens. But it's like you're saying, 219 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,680 we're pulling so much from these past experiences that we fall 220 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:44,160 into that familiar pattern and there's less of that active 221 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,480 choice happening that when we're in these situations, we're kind 222 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,760 of just doing what we know. We're not necessarily trying new 223 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,680 dynamics or putting ourselves in situations that are completely 224 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:56,760 foreign because as humans, that's not what's comfortable or 225 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,080 what's like safe emotionally or physically. 226 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,480 So for people that aren't aware of the attachment styles, 227 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,240 especially from the subconscious perspective, can you explain 228 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,000 that to the audience a little bit? 229 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:11,640 Yeah, definitely. So, so I love how you said all 230 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,760 of that. So there there are four major 231 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,920 attachment styles. The first one is the secure 232 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,680 attachment style. And basically they grew up with 233 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:20,600 a very secure upbringing. In other words, there's a lot of 234 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,280 healthy patterns modeled to them. 235 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,640 So a lot of their subconscious is storing these patterns in the 236 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,080 way that they see relationships in a very healthy way. 237 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,560 So you'll see, for example, that there's a lot of what we call 238 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:34,280 approach oriented behaviors in childhood, which means all the 239 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,080 way as a very, very young toddler, you, if you cry or 240 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,200 express emotion or go through something difficult, you'll 241 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,000 actually see that your caregivers approach you. 242 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,440 They come towards you, they try to figure out why you're upset 243 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,600 and they make an attempt to really soothe you and be there 244 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,040 for you. And So what happens is the child 245 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,320 grows up seeing those behaviors model to them and thinking, OK, 246 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,240 I can trust people. It's safe to rely on people 247 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,080 emotionally. It's safe to let my guard down, 248 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,760 to let people in. My emotions are worthy of being 249 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,320 heard. And when they are, people come 250 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,480 and they tend to me and it's safe and it's healthy. 251 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,280 And so they basically have all of these healthy programs for 252 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,240 how they're going to do relationships as an adult now, 253 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,440 much less at this point of the the population is actually 254 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,840 securely attached. Original reports looked like it 255 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,440 was around 50%. It looks like that's on the 256 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,720 decline. We have three other insecure 257 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:23,480 attachment styles #1 is the anxious attachment style. 258 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,680 Anxious individuals tend to have feelings of loneliness in 259 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:29,600 childhood, feelings of being unloved or abandoned. 260 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,240 And it can be that they have very loving parents, but the 261 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,800 parents are inconsistent, like they're not around all the time. 262 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:37,640 They work a lot. Or it could be that there is a 263 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,800 real abandonment that takes place in childhood. 264 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,400 So a parent leaves and there's a, a divorce or separation and 265 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,600 the parents not really in the child's life any longer in the 266 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,400 same way. And So what happens is that kind 267 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,520 of collection of things that we'll hold on to ends up being 268 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,240 like, oh, I'm going to be abandoned. 269 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,680 And So what happens is as a young adult or going into adult 270 00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:59,960 years, when we start having relationships, we end up feeling 271 00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:03,160 like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to be abandoned at any moment. 272 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,640 And so again, we assume our past experiences on to our present 273 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,280 and future. And the anxious attachment style 274 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,480 will often present as needy or clingy in their adult life 275 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,040 because they have a lot of these fears of people pulling away, 276 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,800 but they tend to cope with these fears by holding on more 277 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,080 tightly. On the flip other end of the 278 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,000 continuum is the dismissive avoidant attachment style. 279 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,360 And the dismissive avoidant usually grows up with childhood 280 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,680 emotional neglect as the overarching theme. 281 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,200 In other words, there's often a lot of you know that that child 282 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,120 not having their emotions be able to be expressed and have it 283 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,320 positively validated. So it could be even negatively 284 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,440 validated. There could be shaming or like, 285 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,960 don't be a crybaby, get it together, be quiet, stop, you 286 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,080 know, fussing so much that there could be a lot of this judgement 287 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,760 or shaming of somebody's emotions or there could 288 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,400 literally just be a dismissal of it. 289 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,320 Like it just gets ignored. And so basically this person 290 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,320 grows up to feel like I don't want emotional closeness to 291 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,640 somebody because I'm not accepted when I'm vulnerable. 292 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,960 I'm not connected to anybody when I'm vulnerable. 293 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:06,880 And in fact, having a lot more space from people is actually 294 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:08,880 what makes me feel more safe and more comfortable. 295 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,480 And so this is our dismissible boyden. 296 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,360 And as adults, you'll see that these individuals tend to be 297 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:17,040 very afraid of too much closeness and they can leave a 298 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:18,800 relationship all of a sudden. They can sometimes be 299 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,000 emotionally unavailable and they can really want to pull away 300 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,160 from somebody the moment things get too real or too serious. 301 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,160 And then last but not least, there's a fearful avoidant. 302 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,320 Fearful avoidance basically share in the anxious and 303 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,920 avoidant side of the attachment continuum. 304 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,680 And why this actually happens is because fearful avoidant 305 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,640 children grow up in households where there's a lot of extreme 306 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,920 associations on either side of what's happening. 307 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,520 So sometimes they'll feel like, OK, closeness is safe and it's a 308 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,480 good thing and and there's love. And so they'll fear that 309 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,200 closeness being taken away because they've often had the 310 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,320 polar opposite end of that spectrum. 311 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,480 But they'll fear abandonment as a result. 312 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,880 And they can have that need to cling and hold on tight. 313 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,520 But at the same time, they've often had really painful 314 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,080 experiences around connection. So they also fear getting too 315 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,720 close. And some really obvious examples 316 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,000 or analogies would be something like having a a parent who's an 317 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,920 alcoholic and maybe one day mom is drinking and she's in a good 318 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:17,480 mood and she's nice and you're like, oh, I want that closeness. 319 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,200 Another day she's drinking and she's had too much to drink and 320 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,240 she's really mean or harsh or cruel. 321 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,480 Other days she's sobering up and she's in a good mood. 322 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,840 And other days she's sobering up and she's detoxing and it's 323 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,120 really hard and scary. And so it's like you never know 324 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,760 what you're going to get. And this can also be things like 325 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,480 having a family of origin that fights a lot where there's a lot 326 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,840 of extreme arguments, really bad divorce. 327 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,480 Children are parentified. It can be things like a parent 328 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,200 or parents having mental health issues. 329 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,880 But basically there's going to be this overarching theme of not 330 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,760 being able to trust, not knowing what you're gonna get, and also 331 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,920 constantly feeling like you're in this push pull pattern of 332 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,120 wanting closeness. But as soon as it gets real or 333 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,080 too close, you wanna pull it away. 334 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,000 And then when it's pushed away, all of a sudden it's like, wait, 335 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,240 I want that closeness again. And so there can be a lot of 336 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,920 this hot and cold intermittent reinforcement or really mixed 337 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,400 messaging and relationships with a fearful avoid an adult. 338 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,920 I think this is so interesting and I think that people become 339 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,040 really aware of their attachment styles as soon as they're more 340 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,280 independent and going more into high school and college. 341 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,960 Because instead of your relationships being defined by 342 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,480 like who your family's around or who you're interacting with 343 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,120 because of your environment that's largely defined for you, 344 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,760 you're kind of figuring out who you're attracted to. 345 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,640 Like we know energies attract. And so like you're saying, these 346 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,880 family of origin lived experiences really start to 347 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,000 impact what our relationships and what our world looks like. 348 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,960 It can look really different really quickly. 349 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,120 And you also have so much more autonomy when it comes to 350 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,880 building those relationships and maybe reinforcing those patterns 351 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,720 or making newer, healthier ones, depending on what your goals 352 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:56,920 are. So I would love to kind of get 353 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,480 your thoughts on what the next step is. 354 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,800 If you listen, you're like, OK, maybe I'm anxious, maybe I'm 355 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,319 avoiding, maybe you're like, I'm secure. 356 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:07,200 This is great, this is perfect. No more work to do. 357 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:09,440 But is it about setting boundaries? 358 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,599 Is it about filling your life with certain people? 359 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,040 Is it more rewiring bring that subconscious? 360 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,760 Where do you go from that initial starting point of being 361 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,240 like this is my attachment style. 362 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,440 These were my lived experiences after you kind of cultivate that 363 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,160 awareness. Yeah, that's a great question. 364 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,600 So there's basically five key pillars that if anybody's 365 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,200 listening and they're like, OK, I'm insecurely attached. 366 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,800 I'm one of those 3 insecure ones. 367 00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:36,000 It doesn't, it's not like this is like a formal diagnosis, like 368 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,560 you have a personality disorder or something like that. 369 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,920 It's basically just a subconscious set of rules that 370 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,560 you've learned about love that you're just storing like we 371 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,400 talked about in that warehouse and reprojecting back out onto 372 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,840 the world. And so we cope from those big 373 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,280 fears of those wounds. So basically the first thing we 374 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,200 want to do is those big fears. So like the anxious attachment 375 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,680 has the big abandonment fears. They also tend to fear being 376 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:01,800 disliked, rejected, not good enough, excluded. 377 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:05,640 Fearful avoidance have those abandonment fears, but also fear 378 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,680 being trapped or not being able to trust or being in the wrong 379 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,680 relationship with somebody and feeling unworthy or like they 380 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,440 could be betrayed. Dismissive avoidance. 381 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,920 They fear being shamed or engulfed or criticized or being 382 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,120 helpless or powerless if you're being weak, if they're 383 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:20,960 vulnerable. So hopefully people can start to 384 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,240 hear like, OK, those are my big relationship fears. 385 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,600 And one of the first things that we do is we actually rewire 386 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,800 those fears because you're not born with these fears and these 387 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,360 fears get conditioned into your programming through repetition 388 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:34,840 and emotion over time. As we established earlier, 389 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:36,680 that's part of what programs is subconscious. 390 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,480 And So what we want to be able to do is recondition. 391 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,440 And I'm happy to share a tool in a little bit for how to do that. 392 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,760 So that's the first thing. The second thing is we need to 393 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,800 learn to meet our own needs, especially when individuals are 394 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,120 in high school in in university, it's such an important time for 395 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:56,000 individuating. It's such an important time to 396 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,720 really learn who you are. And I think a lot of what 397 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,560 happens is we have this society or this outside world that's 398 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,440 constant kind of pressuring us to be this mold of like what 399 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,960 societal or cultural expectations exist. 400 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,800 And I actually think that high school and university are very 401 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,880 sacred time for taking the actual time out of your day or 402 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,320 week to plug into like, who am I and what do I really want? 403 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,800 And learning to make decisions from the inside out. 404 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,880 I think it's actually one of the antidotes to like, you know, I'm 405 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,640 in my mid 30s and have so many friends who, because I know your 406 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,720 audience is in high school or university. 407 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,200 And, you know, I have so many friends who at this point in 408 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,800 their life are like, oh, I want, I have to go back to school for 409 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,400 a totally new career because I'm in a career that I'm really 410 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,520 unhappy with. And when we have honest 411 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,240 conversations, they're like, I always knew I was never going to 412 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:43,840 be in this career. I just didn't know what else to 413 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,880 do. And I don't think that we don't 414 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,120 know what else to do. I think that we don't take the 415 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:51,040 time to actually, like, find those things out, to do that 416 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,080 introspective work. And so part of, you know, pillar 417 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,240 number two of these five pillars is US learning who we are in 418 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:02,040 regards to our needs. And every person has needs. 419 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,600 Every person is run by those needs in a really big way. 420 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,200 For some people, they need more reassurance or validation or 421 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:08,920 acceptance. For other people, they need more 422 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,120 freedom or autonomy. But it's us. 423 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,040 Actually tuning into like what makes me feel like I'm in the 424 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,880 most fulfilled version of my life when which needs are met? 425 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,680 Do I feel the best? Okay. 426 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,840 And so only you can actually learn what our own needs are. 427 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,760 You know, I'll, I'll share them by attachment style briefly, but 428 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,160 anxious attachment styles tend to need a lot of that 429 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,240 validation, encouragement, reassurance, certainty is really 430 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,280 big. They need to work with people, 431 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,960 collaborate, they need open communication. 432 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:39,960 So those tends to be really important there. 433 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,800 Dismissive avoidance need that like freedom, autonomy, 434 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:44,680 independence. But they actually also respond 435 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,760 relationally really well to acknowledgement and appreciation 436 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,760 for small things that they did like, hey, I noticed you took 437 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:52,720 out the trash. Thank you. 438 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,640 Like just these sort of everyday things. 439 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,960 And they also respond really well to empathy, support and 440 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,960 acceptance and fearful avoidance, basically share in 441 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,280 both sides of those. So you can sort of hear yourself 442 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,160 in there. But they also need like depth or 443 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,640 novelty. They need challenge and growth 444 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,720 and they need that that connection and, and intimacy as 445 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,120 well. So when we know our relational 446 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:15,400 needs, we can start to understand, well, these things 447 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,560 really define the relationship we have to ourself. 448 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,760 And so when we can sit down and be like, OK, well, what do I 449 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,480 need and how can I meet these needs in the relationship to 450 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,440 myself first? Like if I need validation, 451 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,280 actually being more encouraging or kind to myself in my internal 452 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,960 dialogue, like when we can start doing that work. 453 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,680 It's a really important form of self soothing and really 454 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,600 building out a relationship to ourselves. 455 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,320 So we reprogram core wounds, we learn our needs and how to meet 456 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,440 them. We regulate our nervous system, 457 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,920 which is its own beast of a topic. 458 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,160 It's really about like being able to spend less time in fight 459 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,160 or flight mode and really make sure we feel comfortable being 460 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,440 in our body. And a lot of that's through like 461 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,680 meditation or breath work or nervous system regulation habits 462 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,000 like light exercise, yoga, things that are actually going 463 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,200 to anchor us into our body and attune us to like what it feels 464 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,560 like to be with ourselves and be more present. 465 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,720 And then we go into having healthy boundaries and learning 466 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,080 to communicate properly what our needs are to others. 467 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,560 And if we can really do those five things, I know that sounds 468 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,800 like a lot, but when we actually break them down into 5 sections, 469 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,480 it's not that difficult to go through each one. 470 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,440 But that's where we'll move the needle on going from insecurely 471 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,240 attached to securely attached. Today's episode is brought to 472 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,920 you by Journey 180 Planner. You guys know that planning is 473 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,360 such a huge part of my mental health toolkit. 474 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:37,840 It is something that I've been doing for years since I did 475 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,680 intensive DBT. And now today, being more in a 476 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,600 maintenance phase of my mental health in college and beyond, I 477 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,320 am pulling out my planner every single day of the week. 478 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,760 And it's something that helps me take away stress and anxiety and 479 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,480 also helps me build that sense of mastery, have that self-care 480 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,920 of getting to put together spreads and see what my week and 481 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,000 month is going to look like. I'm just such a huge fan across 482 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,840 the board. 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The painstaking process of using 491 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:32,280 a ruler and finding these on Pinterest and just have it ready 492 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,440 to go is such a game changer, especially when you're already 493 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,880 balancing so many things in your workload. 494 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,200 I'm so obsessed with their daily spread. 495 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,200 It includes an affirmation, top priorities, a schedule for the 496 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,760 day, a mood tracker, a daily joy, and a little thankful for 497 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,240 Box. The daily joy is straight from 498 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,080 accumulating positives and DBT, which we know has a huge impact 499 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,360 on our emotion regulation and also our ability to accumulate 500 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:04,000 and recall positive experiences. And then the gratitude box, 501 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,440 there's so much research supporting its effectiveness for 502 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,000 decreasing depression and maintaining that decrease weeks 503 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,280 and months down the road. So psychology backed in so many 504 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,920 ways and the best setup for busy students. 505 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,200 I'm just so obsessed. So if you want to grab your own 506 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,120 planner or affirmation cards that you probably saw on my 507 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:25,440 Instagram, you can had do Journey 180 planner.com and save 508 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,760 20% on your order $15 or more using code Sadie 20 at checkout. 509 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,120 Again, that's Journey 180 planner.com with code Sadie 20 510 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,440 at checkout. The link and more information is 511 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,400 in the show notes. I'm curious, you've worked with 512 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,840 so many people and obviously had this conversation with so many 513 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,640 individuals and explained the attachment styles and I'm sure 514 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,200 had back and forth discussions about this journey in this 515 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,080 process. Are there certain parts of those 516 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,480 five steps that people get really hung up on or find really 517 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,280 challenging? Whether it's like that initial 518 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,800 awareness, maybe it's the self soothing, maybe it's moving from 519 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,800 others meeting your needs to doing that yourself. 520 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:07,080 What are those typical challenge and pitfalls that people kind of 521 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,000 come up against when they try and go through this journey? 522 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,320 Yeah, I think the biggest one is depending on your attachment 523 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,080 style. So like a big part of healing 524 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,000 when it comes to needs is for anxious attachment styles to 525 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,400 really learn to meet their own needs. 526 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,720 Which if you don't like spending time alone and you're terrified 527 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,360 of being alone or not maybe terrified but don't love it, 528 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,600 kind of find yourself have having this aversion to it, then 529 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,560 that can feel really challenging at the beginning. 530 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,320 I think it's really important to note that it takes roughly 21 531 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,360 days to really recondition our programming. 532 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,480 So it takes 21 days of firing and wiring new neural pathways 533 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,360 over and over again until they actually start to feel 534 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,240 comfortable and familiar and then we feel safe. 535 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,040 So what you'll generally see is that for the first like 78910 536 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,000 days for an anxious attachment style, when they sit down to, to 537 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,960 start meeting their own needs, they're like, it doesn't feel 538 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,600 good to validate myself or encourage myself or do these 539 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,960 things. But over time, when there's that 540 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,200 repetition and emotion, they'll actually start to receive from 541 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,480 themselves. They'll actually start to feel 542 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,000 comfortable, safe, familiar, giving to themselves and filling 543 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,160 their own cup. And it'll actually be associated 544 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,800 with more positive emotions over time when we do that. 545 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,920 So, you know, part of it can be like, it's not going to feel 546 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,520 comfortable because it goes against our initial programming. 547 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,840 So we need that repetition for that 21 days. 548 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,760 Dismissive avoidance, on the other hand, tend to be in a 549 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,560 position where they don't like being vulnerable because that 550 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,040 goes against their programming. So much of their self protective 551 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:30,560 mechanisms are like keep people at arm's length to stay safe. 552 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,720 But as we start communicating our needs very consistently, 553 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,080 slowly but surely, we don't have to tell everybody everything 554 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,160 about our whole inner world all at once. 555 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,160 But as we start opening up slowly but surely, chunk by 556 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,280 chunk or piece by piece, what we'll start to find is like, oh, 557 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,920 it actually does feel nice to share with somebody else and to 558 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,560 soothe with somebody else as needed or to open myself up till 559 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,160 being seen more, being understood more by people around 560 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,720 me. And we may even find that it 561 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,320 like gets positively reinforced in terms of, oh, like people 562 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,720 actually show up and they're kinder and more considerate than 563 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,960 I realized. So a lot of it's based on 564 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,120 attachment style. I guess the biggest overarching 565 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,560 hard or difficult part is just that like we're going against 566 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,520 the protective measures we've built in relationships to begin 567 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,480 with. But if anybody can observe 568 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,760 consciously and look at their relationship patterns and say, 569 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,360 hey, these have not been serving me, these are not the way I want 570 00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:25,000 to be for the whole rest of my life and experience, then you 571 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,840 know, we can do that 21 day repetition to actually change 572 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:33,720 and rewire these old outdated habits or patterns that are no 573 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,800 longer serving. I am curious about how this 574 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,560 shows up in relationships, whether you have like a friend 575 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,400 or partner or family member and you're like, they're definitely 576 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,680 anxiously attached or they are avoidantly attached. 577 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,960 Are there ways that we can support individuals that have 578 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,440 these different attachment styles? 579 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,080 Or is it better to kind of come from that position of being 580 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,480 securely attached as much as possible and not like cater to 581 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,600 these ineffective ways of of interacting? 582 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,160 What are your recommendations there? 583 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,480 I am a big believer that everybody's 100% responsible for 584 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,440 their 50% of the relationship. I think that sometimes we have a 585 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,360 lot of information on the Internet that's like be counter 586 00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:17,000 dependent, which means everybody should just take care of 587 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,640 themselves and nobody should look out for each other. 588 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,360 And that's not healthy. That's not how we're wired. 589 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:24,480 That's not how we evolved and survived as human beings. 590 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,920 But what's also not healthy is the other extreme, which is 591 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,640 like, I'm only ever going to look out for your needs and 592 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,000 you're only ever going to look out for mine. 593 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,720 And we're never going to care for our own. 594 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:36,640 And usually, unfortunately, when we're codependent, there's a lot 595 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,840 of like something we call covert contracts where we keep 596 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,440 thinking, oh, I'm going to do all these nice things and then 597 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,040 you're going to owe me and you're going to do them back. 598 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,720 Or we have a lot of mind reading where we think like, if somebody 599 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,240 loves me, they should know my needs. 600 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,160 But because we have such unique and different programming, those 601 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,240 become extremely maladaptive strategies for connection and 602 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,680 for healthy relationships. And so instead, what we really 603 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,400 want to be able to do is have healthy interdependence, which 604 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,520 is that middle ground. And that means that if you are 605 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,440 sitting here listening, any of your listeners, if they're 606 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,760 listening and they're like, Oh, my friend is for sure anxiously 607 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,120 attached, for example, you can know that your friend probably 608 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,160 needs a lot of like certainty and inclusion and validation and 609 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,200 encouragement. And you can give those things to 610 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,480 your friend because we talked about, hey, that's the anxious 611 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,160 attachment styles needs. And so you have this dynamic of 612 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,720 being able to like feed into that a little bit, which is 613 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,880 great. And that's you being supportive. 614 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,880 But we have to draw the line where we don't make ourselves 615 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,360 responsible for that person's emotional state or well-being 616 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,440 because that's where we go into codependency. 617 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,880 And then if we're not showing up for the relationship to 618 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,040 ourselves because we're so hyper fixated on others, then we end 619 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,600 up usually being resentful or then we go into that mind 620 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,520 reading covert contract kind of forming. 621 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,440 So I think it's great to have like this ability to extend 622 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,840 ourselves to people, but healthy interdependence really boils 623 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,160 down to I will contribute and I will extend myself to others, 624 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,440 but I won't do it without also taking myself into consideration 625 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,560 so that I'm never giving from an empty cup. 626 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,720 So I know what I can actually give and I can, you know, be 627 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,960 validating or reassuring or all these different things, but in a 628 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,240 place where I'm also centered and rooted in my own space and 629 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,160 my own life. And that really becomes where we 630 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,600 get into secure attachment because securely attached 631 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,520 individuals are interdependent. They know how to look out for 632 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,000 themselves and and look out for others as well and really do 633 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,040 their best to take both sides of that into equal consideration. 634 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,840 We do have a lot of parents that listen to the podcast, and I 635 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,440 think what's really interesting about the attachment styles 636 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,480 conversation is one of the most common examples people use as 637 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,680 sleep training. And they're like, OK, so like 638 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,320 the parents feel this way and it's challenging, but like the 639 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,760 child never really knows what to expect and they're always 640 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,000 distressed the entire time. I feel like that's the most 641 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,920 common example I've learned, whether it's in social media 642 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,800 videos or classes or whatever it is from a psychology 643 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,680 perspective. But as you're describing the 644 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,800 cycle of like emotions and response, I think that those 645 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,480 teenagers would be really impactful because you are having 646 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,080 really intense emotions and you're talking about 647 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,320 individualization. And that's a time when you're 648 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,720 really trying to do that and build these new relationships 649 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,120 and understand yourself. But there still is that fish and 650 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,480 pole and kind of like more integration of the family 651 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,360 system. So I'm curious what your 652 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,440 thoughts are on navigating attachment styles from a 653 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,960 parent's perspective, especially during that time period when 654 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,000 it's not just kids and they're not just showing up with 655 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,640 consistency and validation, but there is a little bit more 656 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,920 nuance and and open dialogue there. 657 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,200 Yeah, it's such a beautiful question. 658 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,840 So I think to your point, like people's teenagers is one of the 659 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,640 most sensitive times. And I think that because, and 660 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,600 this is just really honest for if there are parents listening, 661 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,160 yeah, I'm sorry in advance. But I think that that there's a 662 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,640 lot of parents who have their own attachment wounding. 663 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,400 And what ends up happening is when they see their children 664 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,880 individuating at a subconscious level. 665 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,000 For those parents, sometimes they have their own fears that 666 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,320 get projected onto the relationship with their child. 667 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,320 And so sometimes it can be like, oh, their child's becoming more 668 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,920 of an individual or rebelling in certain ways or trying to carve 669 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:09,600 out time and space for themselves. 670 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,680 And that can trigger a parent's own unresolved abandonment 671 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,040 wounds or fears of something bad happening to the child and the 672 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,280 child being unsafe. Or, you know, there can be their 673 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,560 their own fears that they project onto the relationship. 674 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,760 And there's this really wonderful body of work called 675 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,280 conscious parenting and it talks about how basically everything 676 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,080 that triggers you in your relationship to your child is an 677 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,040 opportunity for your own growth and healing. 678 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,000 Now it doesn't mean don't have boundaries with your children or 679 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,720 don't, you know, make sure that you're accountable and 680 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,520 protective and looking out for them and that it's very healthy 681 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,440 to say, hey, there's consequences to actions and if 682 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,320 you do these unhealthy things, there's going to be not great 683 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,720 consequences and that's fine. But I think that honestly, when 684 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,600 it comes to the parent child relationship, each person has 685 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,280 their inside job 1st to take care of. 686 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,680 And I think that when that is being done effectively, then 687 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,320 there's a lot more room for proper and secure connection to 688 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,320 take place. Because if I'm connecting with a 689 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,520 child, let's say he was a teenager. 690 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,400 And if I have, let's pretend I'm anxiously attached and I have my 691 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,600 own unresolved abandonment wounds and that child like 692 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,760 trying to stay out every Friday, Saturday and do all these 693 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,800 things. I might have my own fears like, 694 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,200 Oh my gosh, my child's getting to that age where they're not 695 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,320 going to be around as much. And then I may find myself 696 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,320 controlling or you know, becoming too strict about their 697 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,120 time because I actually have my own things to work on. 698 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,560 So I really want to just highlight that first. 699 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,880 I think that that the relationship really exists in 700 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,280 steps. And I think that when a parent 701 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,040 is emotionally regulated themselves and they're in their 702 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,760 happiest and best version and they're much more fun and open 703 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,760 person to connect with when they're around their children. 704 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,000 And you'll usually see the connection stabilized in the 705 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,200 parent child relationship when someone's a teenager, if that 706 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,560 parent has really taken care of their own inner work first. 707 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,760 I think the second piece is to keep that open channel of 708 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,920 communication. And that can really happen by 709 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,120 honestly, if you see that one of your children is insecurely 710 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,360 attached by meeting their attachment needs. 711 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,120 So if you know that your child's anxious like be a little more 712 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,360 encouraging or validating. If you know that your child's 713 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,600 dismissive avoidant, you don't have the time and space to 714 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,040 respect their freedom or independence Oregon autonomy or 715 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,400 to be acknowledging of the things that you see them doing. 716 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,800 But that doesn't have to be at the expense of what number 3 is 717 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,719 here, which is to also advocate for your own needs. 718 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,080 As your child becomes an adult, you start having an adult to 719 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,159 adult relationship. And so in that particular space 720 00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:29,719 and time, you are going to have your own needs. 721 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,639 And while you may like, let's say, for example, have a fear of 722 00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,440 your child growing up or leaving and that could trigger the 723 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,760 abandonment fear as you work through that abandonment fear, 724 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,159 that's not a call to say like, hey, just let your child run 725 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:44,280 free and who cares? It's a call to say I'm going to 726 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,560 approach my need for connection with my child from a regulated 727 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,120 space. So I'm going to work through my 728 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,199 own abandonment fears, but then I'm going to tell my child that, 729 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,679 hey, I really care about this relationship. 730 00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:57,520 I know you're busy and you have a lot of things you want to do 731 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,480 with your friends, but can we have like an every Sunday 732 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,440 evening we do dinner together and we spend time together just 733 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,240 being present or hanging out? Like you can still advocate for 734 00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,560 your needs in that relationship, but it's just going to be most 735 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,000 effective to somebody going through their behavioral stages 736 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,000 of individuation if you're doing that from a regulated place 737 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,960 first. One more question I have about 738 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,160 the family system side of things is siblings, which we talked a 739 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,880 lot about, like your family of origin really impacts these 740 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,200 attachment styles and how those show up in adulthood. 741 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,360 But can siblings have different attachment styles? 742 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,920 And how do things like emotional sensitivity or our inner 743 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,880 dialogue, will that also impact attachment styles? 744 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,440 Or it's just like everyone in the same environment kind of 745 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,600 developed the same style? I hardly ever see it's funny 746 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:43,560 because it's such a good question. 747 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,400 I wasn't laughing at your question. 748 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,520 I was laughing at how it almost never works like that. 749 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,160 Like I rarely see kids in the same household have the same 750 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,120 attachment style. There are so many reasons to 751 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,960 play into this. You could make an argument for 752 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,080 birth order. You can make an argument for 753 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,440 genetic predisposition still being slightly different in 754 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,760 certain ways. But honestly, what I've seen 755 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,520 over the years, having been in private practice for a long time 756 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,920 and then through our programs, is that what actually happens is 757 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,280 children are just treated differently because the parents 758 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,920 in a different headspace with each of their individual 759 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,280 children. Like generally the first child 760 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:17,720 parents are really overprotective. 761 00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:20,000 They could be more controlling, a little bit more strict. 762 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,480 Yeah. And so you're probably going to 763 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,520 actually see that there's a little more lack of freedom and 764 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,160 autonomy. And then they're actually can be 765 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,400 like the overcompensation of that for that that child as they 766 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,600 grow up. You'll also see that like in the 767 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,000 birth order context, not the way that we traditionally look at 768 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,240 birth order, but like if you have a child who is, let's say 769 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:43,280 two years old and the next sibling comes along, that can 770 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,360 actually trigger that. The biggest times they see 771 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,120 jealousy being an issue for people in their adult life is 772 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,640 when they have siblings very close in age in their early 773 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,600 upbringing. Because literally jealousy is 774 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,360 actually the survival mechanism that we feel like, Oh my God, 775 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,240 our needs aren't going to be met. 776 00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:59,520 How are we going to survive if this person is taking away from 777 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,240 us who's meeting our needs? And when there's another child 778 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:05,440 that comes along right after that first child, it can feel 779 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,560 like almost this survival threat to the attention being split. 780 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,160 And especially if there's many children after or things of that 781 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,880 nature, there's so many other things that play into it. 782 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,560 In a big family, you'll often see the elder children be 783 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,640 parentified. They may play a caretaker role 784 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,560 for the younger siblings. Like there's so many parts of it 785 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:23,760 that affect our attachment styles. 786 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,680 And it can even be things like, you know, parents being in one 787 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,160 headspace when one child is born and then four years later, if 788 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,920 the next child's born, they've now saved some money and they're 789 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,320 less financially stressed. And one parent can be around 790 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,120 more, be more present, or there can be the opposite end, which 791 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,640 is we see a dynamic where parents are quite loving, but 792 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,000 unfortunately one of the parents just lost their parent at the 793 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,760 time of their child's birth. And so now they're emotionally 794 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,200 unavailable in those early formative years, and they're 795 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,440 going through their own grieving process in various ways. 796 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,920 So there can be so many different things that really 797 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:58,360 play into this. But that overarching theme is 798 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:03,080 that you're very actually less likely to see that children of 799 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,880 the same households are all just the exact same attachment style. 800 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:11,320 You'll generally see variations of it unless you have children 801 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,120 close in age, very chaotic household, very disorganized 802 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,800 dynamics that are going to be more likely to produce if you're 803 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,080 full avoidant attachment style. Because there are these extreme 804 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,240 cases that those are always going to be the overarching 805 00:38:23,240 --> 00:38:25,760 themes. That's so interesting. 806 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,960 My last question for you is about resources that you 807 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,880 recommend because there are so many different directions you 808 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,440 can go after this conversation, whether you have a specific 809 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,040 attachment style you're interested in or there's the 810 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,440 parenting side of things, there's the psychology 811 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,120 perspective. So it's for people that are 812 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:42,520 interested in learning more about attachment theory. 813 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:46,120 What are your recommendations? Yeah, I definitely think start 814 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,040 by taking a quiz. You can decide what your 815 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:49,760 attachment style is. We have a free quiz on our 816 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,480 website at personaldevelopmentschool.com. 817 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,880 You can go in there and it will actually give you like a full 818 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,000 report to your e-mail that will say this is your attachment 819 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:58,960 style. This is the percentage 820 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,360 breakdown. This is your most likely core 821 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,120 wounds, your biggest needs and relationships, probably the ways 822 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,680 you have boundaries and communicate or maybe lack 823 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,320 thereof. And it will help give a 824 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,160 breakdown. And then, you know, we, we also 825 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,960 have a lot of resources in terms of courses. 826 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,400 We have a conscious parenting course. 827 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,400 We have an attachment style healing course. 828 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:18,840 We have a lot of that. But there's a lot of things for 829 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,960 anybody who's like not trying to go fully, fully down that path. 830 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,760 You can start by taking the quiz and then you can watch content 831 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,080 like I put daily content on YouTube at personal development 832 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,080 school Dash Chaise Gibson. There's a lot of other great 833 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,840 resources as well, like the original work of like John 834 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,480 Bullby and Mary Ainsworth is is around. 835 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,480 There's some interesting experiments you can watch on 836 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,000 YouTube that are like the strange situation experiment to 837 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,960 help you really see how a child actually exhibits their 838 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,920 attachment style at a very, very young age. 839 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,520 So there's a lot out there, but I would definitely say just 840 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,000 learn your attachment style 1st and then that will give you a 841 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,040 really clear picture of the things that you can work on 842 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,600 next. I love it. 843 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,880 It's so funny. I work in a lab at Penn and we 844 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,480 have 3 and 4 year olds coming in and we're looking at 845 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,600 relationships and attachment and we're mainly looking at Cal's 846 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,240 trades. But of course then you have a 847 00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:09,800 5050 breakdown so you can understand both sides of the 848 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,080 picture. And one of the things we do is 849 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,240 the strange situation. And so one of us comes in like 850 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:16,680 with a mask on and a hat, and we're like, hi, do. 851 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,200 You want to play with. This toy and it's so funny to 852 00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:22,760 see how they react because the parents in the corner and some 853 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,720 kids are just like, yes, I want the toy and others are like, 854 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,440 there's a weird person in here. And so it's fun to see it from 855 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,200 both sides. That's so cool that that's what 856 00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,160 you get to do. That's super interesting. 857 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,320 It's really hard to not laugh and I'm sure the kids are like 858 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,920 they don't find it funny, but from an adult's perspective to 859 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,920 like no emotion 'cause you have to like keep the variables 860 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,480 consistent. So it's a funny position to be 861 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,640 in for sure. Oh, that's so interesting. 862 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,840 Well, that's really cool that that's what you're studying and 863 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,400 that's what you're doing. That's amazing. 864 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,320 Yeah, well, this was absolutely incredible. 865 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,440 You mentioned your YouTube but if people want to follow on 866 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,440 Instagram as well, where can they find you? 867 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,800 Yes, at personal development. Under Score School. 868 00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:05,920 Amazing. Well, thank you so much. 869 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,520 This was absolutely incredible.