Welcome to she persisted I'm your host Sadie Saxton a 19 year
old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the University of
Pennsylvania. She persisted is the Teen Mental
Health podcast made for teenagers by a team in each
episode. I'll bring you authentic
accessible and relatable conversations about every aspect
of mental Wellness. You can expect evidence-based,
Tina, proof resources, coping skills, including lots of DBT,
insights and education. In each piece of content, you
consume, she persisted It offers you a safe space to feel
validated and understood in your struggle.
While encouraging you to take ownership of your journey and
build your life worth living. So let's dive in this week on.
She persisted one of the things that a lot of people are coming
to me for is they're dealing with a lot of microaggressions,
a lot of racial tension, and they're starting to notice that
it's all becoming a bit too much.
A lot of people they're just coming because they're
exhausted. They're just exhausted from
having to constantly. For that seat at the table.
And as one client of mine, put it.
She said we worked so hard to get that seat of the table that
when we get there were so exhausted.
We don't even know what to do. Now that we have the microphone.
Hello. Hello, and welcome back to.
She persisted. Today's episode is an amazing
one that I know is going to be. So helpful to so many of you
guys, we have Nancy Diaz on the podcast.
She's a trauma-informed, therapist for women of color who
are Daughters of immigrants and we talked about so many things,
we talk about systemic oppression, we talk about
generational healing, Navigating identity issues setting,
boundaries in relationships and how to support someone that is
navigating. These challenges is was so
enlightening for me to have this conversation with Nancy and I'm
so grateful for her for sharing so many amazing tips and tricks
and resources. So let's just dive into it.
And as always leave review, subscribe follow on social media
at she persisted podcast. So yeah, let's dive into it.
Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
Nancy. I'm so excited to have you and
she persisted. Yeah, thank you so much.
So good to be here, of course. So I would love to start with
your background, how you became a trauma-informed, therapist,
and specializing in this area, in this demographic.
And yeah, what led you to working within the mental health
field? Yeah, of course.
So yeah, my name is Nancy Diaz, and I'm a trauma-informed,
therapist and I specialize in working with women of color who
are Daughters of immigrants and I work with issues such as
identity crisis. He's, and that's such a tricky
word to say, isn't it? Yeah, but yeah, things like
anger, things like Trauma, all kinds of things.
There's so much happening with this particular demographic but
yeah identity issues. That's that's one of the main
ones and that's what I wanted to talk about today because this is
something that actually starts when you're an adolescent.
Yeah. So I would love to first before
we dive into identity talk about why these are more prevalent
issues and women of color Daughters of immigrants.
Why did they are more likely to struggle with identity issues
and why they are more? Risk.
And what you've seen in your practice.
Yeah, of course. So I think one of the main
reasons that this affects this demographic is because we tend
to grow up between two different cultures.
So our immigrant parents are from one country.
We grew up in a totally different country.
Usually, there's a clash of values, there's just a clash of
everything and you grow up feeling as if you're not enough
of one and you're not enough of the other.
And so, So yeah, in this very important stage of development,
It's tricky because you really want to fit in.
But at the same time you don't want to let go of your parents
culture, your parents Roots, You Want To Own that, but you want
to fit in and unfortunately some countries are not very welcoming
of you to show up as yourself. And then it just depends on, you
know, your peer group as well and how welcoming they are and
how much they want you to show of So, and so, yeah, there's all
kinds of things that might impact this.
How much you've assimilated acculturated?
And yeah, I think how much you actually know about your parents
culture, and how you've grown up and the messages that you
receive from your parents. But also from society, as far as
how much you should own that identity.
So yeah, that's pretty much it and nutshell what are some
common characteristics of struggling with identity?
It's Certain thoughts that come up, emotions.
You talked a little bit about family dynamics that arise.
How are your clients first acknowledging?
And noticing that? I think I'm struggling my
identity. I think I'm struggling to have
these two pieces of me fit together.
What are those first signals that listeners can keep an eye
out for? Yeah, I think one of the main
things that I hear is that feeling of not being enough, not
being enough of one culture, not being enough of the other, and
then that, I was up in adulthood as well.
It shows up in different ways and thinking that you're not
good enough, that work thinking that you're not good enough.
As a parent, I know a lot of people struggle when they become
parents as well and they think oh well what if my child doesn't
learn my parents language? Or you know what if they
struggle at school if they're bullied because they look a
certain way, they're a bit of this weird mix, you know?
It's yeah. Yeah.
Those are the things to look out for what are your tips for?
For teens that are struggling with their relationship with
their parents. They are have this kind of
unique experience from their parents and that they're growing
up somewhere else. We talked about like how it's
cool their their friends are coming from a different
background that can sometimes create tension or conflict.
What advice and tips do you give your clients for navigating that
difficulty and challenge in that relationship with their parents?
It really starts with communication and I know that
that's Really hard when you're a teen and there's so many
different emotions that are coming up and it can be really
hard to just slow down and just communicate what it is that
you're feeling. But if you have parents who you
think might be responsive to you, just communicating what it
is that you're feeling, then I would definitely recommend
starting their and trying to really focus on I statements.
And this is something that I say, you know, Regardless of
your age regardless of who it is that you're talking to.
But especially when you're a teenager and you're struggling
to kind of put everything into words and there's a lot of
anger, right? For teens and that especially is
important to use those. I statements because you're just
at that stage where you're kind of angry at the world, you just
have so much going on, you of the Raging hormones.
You have so much happening that you start to really feel angry
for different reasons and sometimes, Is it valid?
And sometimes it's the hormones but I recommend is communicating
whatever emotion that is. But especially if it's anger by
using I statements like I'm just feeling very angry, because you
have grounded me and I really wanted to go to this party, you
know, that's communicating your emotion versus say, you're the
worst. You don't let me do anything
things like that. Instead of placing the blame on
that person, try to just communicate how it is that,
you're feeling. What it is that you're thinking
and maybe even why it is that your behavior.
In a certain way that requires some serious skills.
Some serious. So yarnís and it can be
challenging but the more that you practice this, the better
that you become but I think in our society we're just so
focused on. This is how we speak this, how
we communicate with people especially when were angry, we
use this, you you and obviously it really activates the other
person because then they get really defensive, and then the
communication is really difficult, so that's why I
highly recommend using I statements.
When you say I feel It's really hard for the other person to say
like no, you don't feel that way, right?
Yeah, I mean, that's your emotions, that's how you feel.
That's what you're thinking. It's hard for them to say like
no you don't feel that way. Yeah.
If listeners you're listening and you're like, okay I know the
basic emotions but I do struggle to verbalize exactly what I'm
experiencing that is me 100%. Especially when I'm overwhelmed
with emotion figuring out the exact words is really difficult.
So one of my favorite tips, if you could even call it that as
This app called mood meter and you open it and it shows you
four different quadrants so your high-energy unpleasant
high-energy Pleasant low-energy unpleasant and low energy
Pleasant. So, right now I'd say probably
pretty low energy but feeling Pleasant and then it breaks down
all of the different spectrums of emotions based on like, how
energized the emotion is, how positive and negative it is.
So it gives you the difference between like mellow, thoughtful
peaceful, comfy, Carefree, Serene, cozy, tranquil
complacent, sleep. Like all of these different
words that I would never be able to verbalize in the moment and
you can track them as well so you could record your emotions
every day. You can record them throughout
conflicts or interactions or just different stressors that
come up. And so that's one of my favorite
tips. That's a little bit more fun
than like looking at one of those mood wheels or those
emotion charts for your like I don't want to see another one of
those but that's one of my favorites for labeling.
Those what are some common? I statements that you could give
examples for When teens are trying to communicate to their
parents about struggling with identity.
I feel like it's easier when you're like, okay I'm stressed
about school. I'm anxious about a test that's
coming up or I'm feeling annoyed at my friends because they're
gossiping about me or something like that.
But these really abstract issues with identity can be so
difficult to verbalize and communicate, effectively, what
are some other common ways you've heard teens verbalize,
those or tips that you have. From your experience or that
you've seen in clients, where you're like, that's a great way
to explain that. That's a great eye statement
that can be used. Yeah, I think one of them is
just communicating how you're feeling and just again just
verbalizing that because I think a lot of times in my
grandparents, they they have their own issues.
They've just arrived to a new country and even if they've been
there for a while, they're still struggling to adjust to adapt,
they have their own traumas. You know, there's a theory that
immigration itself is traumatic, Because it's such a huge life
transition. So even if things go really
smoothly, you know, there's the theory that immigration itself
is a trauma. So if we look at it through that
lens through that point of view, they have so much going on that
often times, they can't be fully present and they can't ever
really understand our own experience.
So communicating that with an i statement, and just saying that.
Because I think a lot of times for our children of immigrants,
we have this guilt of, you know, they sacrificed so much for us
and we can't really voice Arnie. Our concerns because they are
going through so much still and I just need to be okay and I
can't really be a burden to them.
And for a lot of the children of immigrants, we've been parental
fired as and we have to grow up really quickly because we often
have to help her immigrant parents.
So even if that's translating documents interpreting,
parent-teacher conferences or even if we're not doing any of
those things, but yeah, just helping them like oh this is
what, you know, people do. Do in the US.
And this is different from in your country.
But you know, explaining things like that.
And so often times we have to grow up very quickly.
And so it becomes hard for us to really stop slow down rest, take
care of ourselves and so communicating.
Those needs with their parents and saying, like, I am feeling
really exhausted because I have this project happening at
school, and you're asking me to help you with this league taxes,
but it's feeling really overwhelmed.
And so maybe even starting with that and communicating and just
saying like, I really want to help you with your taxes but you
know, maybe we can find someone this year that can help you or,
you know, is there any way that we can get some things off of my
plate? And with the identity crisis,
maybe just communicating like, I'm finding it really hard to
fit in because I don't want to be embarrassed of you guys but
at the same time I'm getting teased at school or you know I'm
feeling. Not comfortable.
We call them the lunch box moments when you show up with
food from your parents culture and you feel embarrassed by it
and so communicating that lunchbox moment and saying I am
feeling like not that comfortable isn't showing up
with this food and and just letting them know like this is
why someone made this comment and really not keeping that all
to yourself. I think that's the most
important thing because then you take that with you in To
adulthood and you carry that shame and then we struggle with
the guilt as we become older. We realize like, oh my God, that
must have been awful what I did. Even when I was thinking that I
was ashamed of my parents culture, I should have just you
know not cared but of course when you're a teenager it just
makes sense. You're in that stage of
development where identity is super important and fitting in a
super important. So I think the other thing I'm
going to say is yes, use those I statements to communicate but
also don't be be super hard on yourself.
If you are struggling with this, it's completely normal, it's
completely natural. That it's definitely something
that all humans experience that wanting to belong wanting to fit
in. And so if you're struggling
because you feel like you're grown up between two different
cultures, two different worlds, it's completely normal to feel
as if you are failing, as if you aren't fitting in and is, if
you're never going to fit in, it's definitely a tricky thing.
But if you can, I recommend working The therapist to really
start to develop that self-esteem and develop that
confidence and work toward actually feeling good in your
identity and owning it other resources that people can look
for when you're working with a therapist, you're a
trauma-informed therapist. Do you recommend that children
of immigrants all look for trauma-informed?
Therapist is there an effective way to ask therapist if they
have experience working with Children of immigrants or people
of color? What would you look for on the
other side? I'd if you were finding a
therapist for when your clients are for yourself?
Yeah, it can be a little bit tricky, but luckily, there are
quite a few resources and you definitely can.
You can find people who specialize in this such as
myself. I'm very clear on my website.
This is who I work with my talk about these issues on my podcast
on social media. I'm talking about this and I do
know you didn't follow quite a few therapists who, you know,
are talking about the experience of children of immigrants.
So you definitely can find people who Flies in this,
there's not too many of us who really specializes in this and
work with this population in particular, but if you find a
therapist that you think is a good fit and you're not sure if
that's something that they have experience working with, you can
definitely ask them that and email in the initial
consultation call you could just say to you of experience,
working with Children of immigrants or you can say like I
want to communicate my thoughts and feelings and just work on
the Immigrant experience. Variants and communicate that
way. But yeah, there are fortunately
directories and these aren't available in certain countries,
but in the u.s. there are quite a few inclusive therapists.
There's therapy for black girls, there's a lot next therapist,
there's Asian directories as well.
There's all kinds of specific directories for people of color
and you can filter those and look for people who work with
teens, or look, for people who may be special.
And I think identity crisis is One of the things that you can
check the box on sites like the inclusive therapist.
I know, I think they have that one.
So, yes, luckily it's something that's being talked about a bit
more. It's something that's being
recognized that people are struggling with this.
So, yes, I do recommend we even doing a Google search like
children of immigrants therapist or immigrant therapist and then
looking on these directories, if you are in the u.s. if you're
outside of the US it's a little bit trickier but yes, that is
something that I'm pretty passionate about helping people.
Go find that their purpose. That's a good fit.
So if I have a consultation call with someone and I don't end up
being a good fit, I have my own large network of therapists who
go to specialize in these issues that I might be able to refer
you to. So definitely feel free to reach
out and I'm happy to connect you because I know I can be a little
bit tricky and up especially in the u.s. when therapist can only
see people in their state and if you live in a state where
there's not that many therapists who specialize in this or they
might be full, it can be really tricky.
So I would just say Don't give up.
Hope. Just reach out.
I'm happy to help and try to connect you.
If I don't have space myself, I'll definitely make sure that
you find someone because I know it can be definitely a journey
and it can be quite challenging and overwhelming.
So, happy to help. I think that's been one of the
greatest things that came out of covid is the norm of Telehealth
and having virtual appointments for a therapist that would
normally do only in office because like you said, a lot of
these certifications or having your license is within a state
and And so you could meet someone that's a four hour drive
away from you or across the state and still be able to meet
with them, rather than having to drive to their office every
single week or wait for their patient load to go down because
there's only one therapist in your area.
Yeah, it's added a lot of convenience.
Yeah, I work with people all over the world.
I'm actually located in Australia, but I work with
clients and Europe and the US and Australia it in Asia
sometimes. So yes it's been.
For that unfortunately with the u.s. it.
Yeah, Telehealth is amazing. But if your therapist your
license in a certain State, you cannot tell you someone who's in
another state. So yeah, even with the power of
zoom and all this technology, that is something that is quite
frustrating. So yes, because I am outside of
the US. It makes it easy for me to be
able to see people, no matter what state they're in in the
u.s. Yes.
Oh yes. That's that's the amazing thing
of Telehealth and Remis of living.
Abroad is that I'm not limited by the licensing in the u.s. so
yes that's been definitely. One of the reasons that I chose
not to get licensed over there. I said it limits you so much and
I think because this is so needed and because it's so hard
to find someone who specializes in working with Children of
immigrants. I said, Okay, I want to be able
to have my doors open no matter where you are in the world.
If you want to work on these issues, then come as you are.
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morning routine today, I love that either other books podcast
people to follow websites. I don't know if there's even
like Crisis Support lines that specifically specialize in
crisis situations for children of immigrants, people of color.
But what other resources are there for people that either
don't have access for therapy or maybe they're like I'm not sure
if I want to take that step yet. What other resources do you
recommend? Yeah, one of the resources that
I recommend someone who really talks about the issues that
children of immigrants experience.
You can follow the account on Instagram.
It's called brown girl therapy, and she talks quite a bit about
this. She's the daughter of immigrants
herself. And so she talks about a lot of
the mental health issues. She's a therapist as well.
And so she talks about these and so, yeah, she's the one who kind
of inspired me to get into this work and to really say, this is
what I want to specialize in, there wasn't a lot of people.
I mean that's and I didn't know if it was a good idea but I just
said okay I'm loving her content.
I'm loving her work. I want to also join forces and
do something similar so you can follow brown girl therapy.
There are other therapists who are on social media who maybe
don't focus in the same way as she does.
But yeah, there's round Mama trauma that you can follow as
well. There is brown girl, cycle
Breakers. There's all kinds of accounts
that you can follow on Instagram and And yeah, some of them have
podcasts as well. So I think if you start with
those yeah, you'll slowly find the answer.
I did a panel a really long time ago.
It probably was like at least a year or two years ago when I
first read the podcast and it was a mental health self-care
kind of panel and brown girl therapy was also on it and
really want to have her on the podcast.
You got really busy because she's writing a book or she was
running both last time I reached out.
So still going to pitch still going to try and get her on but
she's amazing and she does So much wisdom and insight and her
content is amazing. One thing that I do want to
touch on, which I think will be interesting to get your
perspective on is systematic oppression and how that relates
to mental health. I feel like most people kind of
have an idea of a definition or generally how that impacts
Society. But how do you see that
impacting people's mental health?
But that's emotions their relationships, their thought,
patterns, their beliefs. How does that show up in that
kind of like identity and personal sense?
Yes, those are. Quite often, I mentioned the
beginning. That's one of the issues that I
see quite often with this population is that racial trauma
that comes from the systemic oppression.
And so yeah that's one of the things that a lot of people are
coming to me for our especially at this moment is they're
dealing with a lot of microaggressions, a lot of
racial tension at work. They're starting to notice that
it's all becoming a bit too much.
So whether it's a lot of people they're just coming because
they're exhausted, they're just exhausted from Having to
constantly fight for that seat at the table.
And as one client of mine, put it she said it, we work so hard
to get that seat of the table that when we get there were so
exhausted. We don't even know what to do
now that we have the microphone. And so yeah, that's one of the
things that I'm seeing that it's really impacting our mental
health and I'm glad that more people are talking about it now
because it definitely is something that, you know, we
don't think about like oh this is, you know, the reason behind
my depression this is the reason that I'm more anxious or you.
No, this is the reason that I am struggling with being triggered
at work and things like that. But yeah, this is definitely one
of those things that, you know, can be something like complex
trauma because it's not necessarily from one event, you
don't have to be attacked because of your race.
In order to be experiencing racial trauma.
I can just be from microaggressions that you've
experienced throughout your life and that it's really taken that
toll. And so now that you're reaching
out for help another way that Compression shows up is the
barriers that you have in accessing those Mental Health
Resources. So that's why I'm glad that
there are directories that exist.
That make it a, hopefully a little bit easier to find a
therapist of color that maybe can relate to your experiences
that maybe is well-versed and things like racial trauma.
Whose may be more culturally sensitive hands that cultural
humility. So yes, there's definitely quite
a bit that we could talk about with this but that's I think the
main things that I'm seeing is that that racial trauma and
people are coming to actually work through some of that.
A lot of my clients are coming to try to work through some of
these microaggressions, learn tools and techniques.
And so, sometimes we even do role playing, or in teach them
about micro interventions or how to actually communicate, how to
handle when you are at work, and someone makes a backhanded
comment and you feel like you're not good enough.
How would you do that? If that's something that
listeners experience price? Probably in school or in some
Community event. I feel like less teenagers are
in a workplace enough that that would happen.
Like most people are doing shifts on the weekend or
something once or twice a week. But if that happens at school or
with, I don't know a teacher or an adult or someone within your
life. How do you recommend people
respond to that? The first thing that I tell my
clients is that you cannot be hard on yourself.
We're in whatever way you respond and a lot of people they
come because they say I want to stop.
Freezing. But I just remind them that when
you experience something like this you notice it in your body
that you tense up and you feel very activated and so you kind
of go into survival mode and that is completely normal
because you don't know. And we see these things on the
news, we might have had friends or family members who have
actually experienced like a horrific attack, that's race
Pace or something like that. But either way, we know that
these things happen and so it makes sense that When someone
it's just a comment but usually that's how these things start.
And so we don't know how bad that's going to get.
So it's 100% makes sense that you tense up that you go into
survival mode. And so, if we think about
survival mode and the three responses are the four
responses. Now right.
There's fight flight freeze but now there's also pawn and pawn,
I love because it definitely applies, especially when these
situations come up because van is essentially people-pleasing.
And so sometimes, if this Opens your immediate reaction might be
to brush it off or pretend that it happened or just to smile at
the person or do something that will please them.
So that the situation diffuses, but sometimes you freeze, and
that's completely normal. And you don't know what to do or
to say this happens. To me quite often as well, and
that's something that I'm still working on, but I think it
starts with really having that compassion for myself and just
saying like I have no idea what's going to happen here and
so if I freeze that's okay and I Sigh come back to it, when I
come back to it, I don't have a chance to say anything or do
anything and the moment passes and that's okay as well.
We work through these skills and yeah but I think not being hard
on yourself is the first thing and if we do respond in some way
then realizing that that's a fight response and realizing
that that in itself can be risky.
Because again we don't know what this person is going to say.
Do how they're going to react if it's going to escalate.
But yeah I do teach some clients skills such as calling inverses.
Calling out really learning how to assess the situation and
deciding. Does this person have the
intelligence that capacity to understand if I gently explain
like? Okay this is a microaggression
this is why this is saying something that you should be
going around saying this is why this is hurtful to me or
offensive or whatever it is you might be able to do that or you
might just be able to tell from that situation that they're not
going to smell or equal to that. Yeah and so you have to really
decide time. All of that.
There's so many things that you have to assess and that's why a
lot of us freeze because there's so much that you have to think
about in that Split Second that you have to really be kind to
yourself if you just freeze and acknowledge that whatever your
response is. So it's a trauma response and
it's valid whether you freeze, whether you decide to fight back
or whether you just run away, you know, I might not look like
physically running away but you might just make an excuse to get
out of whatever situation isolate that's completely valid
as well. So whatever.
Response is just know that, that's, that's okay.
And, you know, you can practice a little bit, learn about these
micro interventions, learn about how to assess these situations
if you really want to fight back in this way and learn how to
respond. But again, even if you don't,
that's okay. The main thing is really to take
care of yourself after something, like that happens.
And that's something that I started doing this year after I
had some experiences like that, where I was just like, you know,
what, this is actually valid that.
I'm Feeling this way, taken a day off, before for my own
mental health and just really sat with it and processed, what
happened? Why I was feeling that way, I
had a chat with my own therapist, whatever it is that
you need to do but especially when something like that
happens. Definitely don't gasps let
yourself. Don't tell yourself, I'm too
dramatic or. I can't believe that.
I had to take the day off because of this simple comment
that someone made be really gentle with yourself and take
care of yourself because what you're experiencing is, 100%
valid. And so just remember to take
care of yourself. It's something that is so, so
hard for children of immigrants who didn't have that rest and
self-care models growing up, but it is something that's super
important and if we think of self-care, it's become such a
buzzword. It's become so commercialized.
It's completely lost all of its meaning, but it's so important.
And at the root of it, it's just coping skills.
You know, when something like this happens, any life,
stressor, you need to take care of yourself and so we call it
self care, but Really, you're looking at what coping skills
you have, how are you coping with the situation?
What are you doing to actually take care of yourself.
So this is one thing that I teach my clients quite a bit
about it self-care because a lot of us didn't have it modeled
growing up. We have an unhealthy
relationship with self-care. And so we really struggle and we
think that we have to earn rest and we think that we have to
earn self-care and we think that we just don't deserve it unless
we accomplished x y and z. Z and then we think okay maybe
now I can rest a bit but if we think about it we never end up
accomplishing everything on her to-do list.
You know, there's always that next degree to chase after that
next promotion. There's always something and we
are, I think by Nature, a lot of children of immigrants were
people Pleasers. We have trouble setting
boundaries, we have trouble really putting our needs first
and communicating those needs. And so this is why I actually
have been hosting these workshops that I call Soul Care
versus self. Are so that I can teach people
like, okay, this is why it's important and this is why it's
huge for you to actually put your own Mental Health.
First put your own needs first and learn how to have a healthy
relationship with self care and learn to practice what I call.
Soul Care, which is just how to nourish replenish and feel
rejuvenated after you find your own type of Soul care.
I love that. Yeah, yeah, that's that's the
one thing that I'm super passionate about is just helping
people find those basic techniques.
Kills, find that type of Soul Care.
That works for them because I think a lot of us were self-help
junkies. We listen to podcast, we read
books, we try to do all of the things that you know, are
recommended to us. We try to journal, we try to
meditate, we try all of these things and sometimes it just
isn't working. And so, yeah, I think it's
Unique to each person. I think finding that type of
Soaker. So that's what I hope people do.
I really like what you mentioned about, how it still It'd be
drilling and very impactful and bring up a lot of emotions.
Even when you observe something or you see something in the
news, even if it doesn't happen directly to you and it reminds
me of something we learned in my abnormal, psychology class about
PTSD diagnosis. And prior to 9/11, the diagnosis
criteria was that you had to be there, you had to be the one
directly involved in the traumatic event.
It had to happen to you or close loved one and they found that
during 9/11 people. People that were sought through
window or they saw it on TV or they had a family or member, a
friend who was it on a plane or in the building or a first
responder. They also started developing
these symptoms of PTSD and this really intense response to this
traumatic event without being involved with it or directly
observing it. And so these symptoms these
emotions, they still arise through observation, and it's
more likely that you get that diagnosis.
So you develop the symptoms, the closer you are to the Events.
So people that had a partner or a family member that was in the
event experience, the most likely development of PTSD
symptoms, then people that were maybe going to go to work in the
same neighborhood that day versus people that saw it on the
news and kind of going like outward in that Circle.
And I think what makes these stories that we see on the news.
So impactful is that it does hit so close to home.
You think it could have been me. It could have been a family
member and it's so wide. I'd spread that these emotions
do arise because they're happening everywhere, it country
and the world. And so it's no wonder that these
emotions come up. And that's why it's so important
to do the self care to take the time to recharge and take care
of yourselves and know the resources that you have access
to and that you can utilize when you need them because it again,
it's not about. Did this happen directly to you
did it get this bad in this work interaction the same emotions
and reactions can still come up, and that's completely It it okay
and normal to experience completely valid.
Yeah, and it doesn't have to be, you know, an act of terrorism
for you to experience this type of a PTSD, whether you're there
or whether you're watching it on the news.
But as you're talking, I'm just thinking about, you know, how
many of us were deeply impacted by watching the black lives
matter movement and the protests and the riots on the television.
And it's definitely something that has affected us all.
And so if you're still feeling the effects of that and you're
feeling like you're struggling right now, then you definitely
have every reason to, you know, still be angry and still be sad
and still be highly activated and triggered by these
microaggressions that are happening at work and to still
feel like you're struggling with that that PTSD and whether you
want to label it that or not. But yeah, I definitely have
heard this research before of what amazing things kind of
sounds horrible to say but what amazing research has come out of
you know 9/11 that we start to think of trauma in a different
way. And I am so happy that were
thinking about it in a different way, because I think a lot of
people experience this complex trauma that I'm so glad that
were talking about a bit more. And from there actually came
more intervention strategies as well.
And ways to actually help people heal through that trauma.
And one of the things that I learned was that there was a
therapist who was actually doing EMDR with clients for trauma for
that PTSD. He was working with 9/11.
One, victim, survivors, family members, all of that.
And he noticed that he was getting a bit stuck with some
clients. He found him Dr. To be really
amazing but he noticed that there was one client that he was
working with this wasn't related to 911, but he noticed that they
with those eye movements, they got really stuck in one
particular location and the client said, oh I want to stay
there. I want to stay focused on that
spot there and so they stayed there.
That's what became known as now brain spotting and finding that
particular brain spot where you can access that trauma where you
can actually see that on a deeper level and you have really
rapid healing from that trauma. So, that's one thing that I've
been trained in now. And one thing that I love,
especially for working with, you know, people who are
experiencing, whether it's racial trauma.
I also see a lot of generational trauma or childhood.
Trauma, I see, you know, those are kind of the main three
children of immigrants, usually, Um with and so, when we use
things, like MD our brain spotting or these somatic
approaches, its really huge because we're looking at it as
the trauma is stored in the body and there's often times
something that's stuck, something that we might not even
know. Is there something that we have
dissociated from as a way of protecting ourselves?
We have blocked off everything and we've just made a very
conscious decision of. I'm not going to think about it.
I'm not going to talk about it and yeah, there's definitely
Hands behind that. It makes sense that we are
protecting ourselves from that something that happened that was
horrific or a series of events that over time have become too
much for us to handle, we've just completely detached from
that and that's okay, that's valid and that's why sometimes
self-care is enough. You know, we talk about
self-care and we talk about things that we can do, but yes,
specially when it comes to racial trauma and systemic
oppression, and you know, dealing with these really heavy
things that are very complex, sometimes it is, you know, Going
finding a trauma-informed, therapist doing something like
brain spotting or EMDR or somatic experiencing especially
I think, is really helpful for people of color because there's
so much that has been stored in our bodies and it's been passed
down from Generations. It's not just something that we
are experiencing now, but the reality is that even if we're
talking about the black lives matter movement, we've all
watched that horrific scene on the news and so that definitely
we store that in our bodies. But apart from that, you know,
Talking about what our parents have experience with their
parents have experienced what our ancestors have been through
talking about historical trauma, so it can be all pretty heavy.
That's the one thing that I want to trap up on which I think
you're referencing, is generational healing, and for
listeners, that aren't familiar with that term before and
haven't heard of that. What is generational healing?
And how does that present, where, or show up in the work
that you do with your clients? Is that like the second step
after they first kind of get a hold on, the emotions that are
coming up in the present. Point, do you start with
generational healing and then work towards what's coming up
for you? Now, how does that fit into
everything else we've touched on the way that I explain it to my
clients is that at least with my Approach it's completely client
LED and I'm not going to, you know, tell any client that if
they're experiencing anxiety and panic attacks and things that
are really just the symptoms of trauma.
I'm not going to tell them. We're not going to work on that.
We're going to be deep into the drama.
No, no. With the symptoms of trauma and
then we get to actually addressing and trying to heal
that trauma. And the way that I see with
generational healing, there's not too much that you have to
do. It's not like an extra thing
that you have to do. But you showing up to therapy or
you doing your own healing work is huge because that's going to
be passed down to the Next Generation.
So it's not necessarily that you and your whole family have to
show up to therapy that you all have to do this healing work.
Often times. It's really hard, especially for
Parents who didn't grow up with the access with the resources
and when there's stigma in our communities and there's all
these things. There's a distrust of medical
professionals, because we've been experimented on all these
things, so it can be hard for them to say.
Yes, I'm going to go to therapy, it's not as easy as for us, you
know, we've grown up in the us or we grown up in these Western
countries, where it's just a little bit more accepted, it's a
little bit easier for us to say. Yeah, I'm going to go because
I've heard that this is good. I know this can help.
It might be a little bit harder, but that doesn't mean that
there's not going to be generational healing because
just, you going to therapy and I see this in this is, I think my
favorite part of being a therapist and especially working
with this population when a client comes in and they tell
me, oh, you know what? We learn in session last week, I
was told my mom about it or, you know, I was telling my little
niece about it or we did this exercise on affirmations it
together with my little sister. Yeah, yeah.
I just see that ripple effect and you know, the way I think of
it, even if you don't have kids Yes.
But you might have, yeah, nieces nephews.
You might be around other children.
You might in some little way shape or form be impacting the
lives of other people. And even if you go backwards, if
you teach your parents or grandparents, even if you don't
think that you are teaching or talking about what you're
learning in therapy, you have you never tell your family that
you're in therapy? That's your own personal
decision, right? Whether to disclose that
information or not, but you are still learning and healing on
your own and just By doing that you're modeling different
behaviors or your family members, you know, if you do
have kids or modeling that for your kids, you're showing up,
you don't have that heavy burden of trauma to pass down to your
kids. You don't have that heavy burden
of trauma to show up when you're interacting with your younger
siblings or things like that. So, yeah, it's huge and that's
why I, you know, I think all of my clients are cycle Breakers in
that way because they're showing up and they're doing that
generation on healing. I love that.
To wrap things up, where can people follow you on social
media? Where can they find your
website? If they want to work with you
and continue to consume your content?
Yeah, so it's pretty easy to find me my practice called
Global citizen therapy. So you can find me on social
media on Tick-Tock on Instagram Facebook and our Global citizen
therapy and my website is global citizen therapy.com.
My podcast is also called the global citizen therapy podcast.
I made it easy for people to kind of remember, as long as you
find one of those you'll be able to access some my other content
and you can make an appointment to work with me on my website or
reach out through one of the Social media platforms as well.
Whatever is easiest for you. And you can also sign up to take
the soul cameras and self-care workshop.
And that's going to be up on my website, pretty soon as well.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for
joining me. I'm so glad we got to do this
and I learned so much from this conversation and I know
listeners well as well. So, thank you so much for
sharing all of your wisdom and insight from your journey and
your work with clients and all of that.
Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you for giving me this.
This opportunity giving me this platform.
It's been amazing and I hope hope that it will help some
people. Thank you, thank you so much for
listening to this week's episode of she persisted.
If you enjoyed, make sure to share with a friend or family
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week.