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Welcome to she persisted I'm 
your host Sadie Saxton a 19 year

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old from the Bay Area studying 
psychology at the University of 

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Pennsylvania. 
She persisted is the Teen Mental

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Health podcast made for 
teenagers by a team in each 

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episode. 
I'll bring you authentic 

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accessible and relatable 
conversations about every aspect

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of mental Wellness. 
You can expect evidence-based, 

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Tina, proof resources, coping 
skills, including lots of DBT, 

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insights and education. 
In each piece of content, you 

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consume, she persisted Offers 
you a safe space to feel 

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validated and understood in your
struggle. 

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While encouraging you to take 
ownership of your journey and 

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build your life worth living. 
So let's Dive In. 

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Hello, hello and welcome back to
another episode. 

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I am running late for the 
airport as we are recording this

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intro so this is going to be a 
short and sweet but today's 

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guests are the founders of the 
Therapy Group and host of the 

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shrink chicks podcast. 
You should check out both of 

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those amazing content. 
For both the Therapy Group is 

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located in Philadelphia. 
So if you are Philly located, 

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they have a therapy practice 
with tons of therapist. 

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You can work with so Link in the
show notes but today's guests 

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are Emily be early. 
LM ft and Jennifer chicken. 

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LM ft. 
Together, they founded, both a 

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therapy group and host. 
The shrink tricks podcast, they 

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both still practices therapist. 
They have so much wisdom and 

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insight to share about the 
therapy World, their own 

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experiences sharing. 
What it's like from the other 

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perspective. 
So, this conversation is 

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hilarious. 
It's amazing. 

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I know you're going to gain so 
much Insight from it so while we

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go to the airport, let's dive 
in. 

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Thank you guys so much for 
coming on. 

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She persisted, I'm so excited to
have you on the show today. 

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Thank you so much because we 
love a filly babe. 

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We love you. 
I'm so excited. 

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As soon as you said Philly, we 
were it was it needed for about?

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That was little, I'm from 
Philly. 

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Come on my body, I live. 
I'm at UPenn right. 

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But I will also say this listen 
like podcasting wasn't a thing. 

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We are in college but also City 
I would have been that's 

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probably for the best for us but
also The fact that you're 

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sitting here doing this 
unbelievable thing to make it 

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accessible to destigmatize 
therapy. 

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Like we have to also start with 
like thanking you as well 

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because like this is why your 
generation is the best 

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generation in my opinion because
you just need to do it so much 

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better. 
And I wish that we had people 

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when I was a freshman in college
having horrific, part of the 

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reason we became therapist is 
because we had horrific 

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experiences in therapy and we're
like, we could do this better 

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and for both of us, a lot of 
that had to do with college. 

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Okay. 
I'd love to dive. 

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Into that. 
Yeah, I think college is maybe 

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one of the roughest mental 
health times. 

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Yeah, it's bad tough. 
I've done a couple of episodes 

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recently and I think pain 
especially doesn't have the best

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reputation with mental health 
and going into it. 

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Like I feel like my mental 
health has been good if not 

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better than it's been before and
it's all about like the 

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different boundaries that I set 
up the different habits I put in

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place that allowed me to do that
but if you're going into college

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with no experience of managing 
your mental health, Knowing what

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to expect with the independence,
not knowing what your priorities

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are. 
It's super overwhelming and it's

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like a Surefire way to struggle 
and feel very overwhelmed 

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because there's so much on your 
plate. 

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Absolutely. 
And just yeah, just the pressure

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of college and then also the 
lack of resources, right? 

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How many people are waiting 
months on a waiting list, to get

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to a caps program, the 
counseling program at their 

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school because they're simply 
just enough, not enough money 

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across the board, no matter what
you're doing. 

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There's not enough money put 
into mental health and so you're

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so Amazing, you can sit here and
like, oh, here are a b and c all

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the things that I did, most 
people would be, like, I 

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prepared for college by, like, 
buying this right stuff for my 

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dorm, which is so cool to, like,
find the do also did that look 

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like, okay, how do I like 
mentally emotionally 

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psychologically, prepare myself 
for such a massive life 

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transition? 
Yeah, and I think some of that 

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too comes from the work that you
do on yourself before. 

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You even get into college, 
right? 

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And right now, we're seeing such
a huge Mental Health crisis with

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adolescence, you know, we see it
in our practice that are coming 

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in, there's and so adolescents 
are really struggling and so 

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you're, you know, the fact that 
you did so much work to to get 

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yourself to this point. 
Really speaks to that how you're

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managing it in college. 
Yeah, it's funny. 

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Like what I was thinking about 
moving away and going across the

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country. 
I was like bleep but I've done 

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this before, like I've lived in 
treatment like this is the 

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second time. 
Around the block, but that's not

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the experience for so many 
teenagers and it's so 

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overwhelming. 
And so if I can like, take the 

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little bits and pieces that I 
learned and share, whatever was 

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helpful, I hope that someone 
will listen and be able to 

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implement these things because 
not enough people are talking 

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about it, it's not widely enough
discussed. 

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And and some of these things are
really simple. 

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It's like getting enough sleep. 
It's making sure that your basic

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needs are met. 
It's having enough people in 

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your community that are checking
in on you. 

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It's making sure you're feeling 
your emotions and not. 

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Seeing that and not overwhelming
yourself with commitment. 

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So it's small things. 
You just have to be aware of and

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make sure that you're 
prioritizing, so that you don't 

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become overwhelmed. 
Absolutely. 

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The basic things that we've. 
Yes, exactly. 

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So I would love to dive into 
like, you guys kind of touched 

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on why you became therapist and 
then, that background of your 

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experience is in therapy because
I think it'll also be helpful 

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for listeners to hear. 
Like, wait, that was my 

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experience as well. 
Like maybe it doesn't have to be

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like that. 
So talk to me about your 

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background and why you became 
therapist. 

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First, I'm gonna start. 
Yes, you go first. 

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Okay, princess you know growing 
up, I would say I was a pretty 

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depressed child into my 
adolescence and and had some I 

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actually had a really great 
experience as a child in 

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therapy. 
I had a really wonderful 

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therapist, but I remember that 
the way in which therapy was 

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introduced to me, was don't tell
anyone about this, you have to 

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go to therapy. 
Don't talk about this was talked

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about as a punishment. 
And it was talked about as a 

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secret but that was my first 
experience in therapy. 

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It was also something I very 
much was a very sensitive child.

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I'm a sensitive adult. 
So I very much gravitated to 

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that role of helping people 
taking care of people so it was 

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a natural fit but then as I got 
into my adolescence as I you 

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know, when I entered into 
college I started to have other 

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therapeutic experiences with 
therapist that had a little bit 

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of a clinical wall. 
It was very Difficult to connect

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to them and so that, you know, 
kind of skewed my view of 

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therapy a bit until, and I 
always, you know, I majored in 

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Psychology and undergrad so it 
was always something I was very 

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interested in but I was always 
told, you know, you're not going

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to be at my by my parents. 
You're not you're really not 

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going to be able to make any 
money as a therapist. 

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So listen to them and I went 
into marketing and had the worst

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year of my life right after 
college. 

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And was like, listen I'm just To
go do, what? 

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Feels right for me and sometimes
you have to make a mistake and 

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do something that you really 
hate in order for it to drive 

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you into something you really 
love. 

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So I then applied to grad 
school, met Emily and the rest 

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was history, what is funny 
thing? 

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Because for as much as gent is, 
we always talk about often often

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a family system, which is where 
family systems therapist, there 

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is, there's multiple kids. 
There's an imp loader and an 

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Exploder. 
Jen is an imploding, she keeps 

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it inside. 
She Will destroy itself within, 

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I am an Exploder so for me, 
adolescence was it. 

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Eating disorder self-injurious 
Behavior, a borderline 

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personality disorder diagnosis 
of bipolar that, you know, 

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everything. 
Because I my adolescence was 

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this feels off but I do not keep
my stuff inside. 

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I go the other and so I had a 
similar experience where I had 

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some positive experience and 
then I had a lot of negative 

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experiences, what are those is 
in a residential treatment 

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center Of those, within our PHP 
program are partial 

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hospitalization program. 
People don't know. 

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And then, I go to college. 
And every experience I had in 

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college was super - every 
therapist did not get me. 

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I really, really struggled and 
Jen. 

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And I are both Petty bitches 
that we were like, we could 

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probably do this better. 
And so I actually went to school

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to be a teacher, did the first 
half my student teaching and was

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like, oh no, I'm not made to be 
around children, this isn't this

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Edition and not it for me. 
I went into my advisor, I was at

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Penn State. 
What's my visor? 

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I said, what can I switch into 
that? 

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Will not keep me. 
Like, I can't keep staying at 

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the school. 
So what can I transfer into 

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that? 
I'm still gonna graduate. 

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Like, just one semester behind 
and she said, oh, human 

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development and family studies. 
And I said, what the fuck is 

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that? 
She said, basically means you go

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to grad schools, like, okay, 
great, I'll buy myself, some 

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work supports, I perfect. 
What? 

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I was always a person that 
people wanted. 

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I always like talking to people 
that I was very interested in 

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talking to people specifically 
about their relationships, 

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especially about their And a 
really about sex. 

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And so Jay and I both ended up 
and graduate school at Thomas 

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Jefferson University because 
they have a Sex Therapy, 

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specialization a couples 
therapist. 

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Specialization we both knew, we 
wanted to do something along 

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those lines. 
But even with our Specialties, 

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the thing that has come back to 
us, that speaks to our soul over

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and over and over again, is the 
fact that I believe therapy is 

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for everyone, just not every 
therapist is for everyone. 

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And so if we can make thyristor,
people probably a lot of people 

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that listen, This podcast that 
like maybe you're already cool 

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with going to therapy, but 
there's a lot of people that are

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not, there's a lot of people 
that it is still stigmatized as 

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little people that still, or 
they had one really negative 

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experience and they're like, I 
will never go to therapy again. 

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And so, I really believe the 
more we can convince people that

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there is the right therapist for
you somewhere. 

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Even if it wasn't the first one,
you found that. 

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It can be incredibly 
life-changing. 

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I think that's so true. 
And I think it's especially 

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difficult for teens and 
adolescents because a lot of the

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time they're not as Alton the 
decision-making process. 

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Yes. 
Their parents have found this 

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person in there like this person
with, like, 45 years of 

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experience with adults? 
This is the one. 

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Yeah. 
And you're like, no, or they're 

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like, this is a child therapist 
and they're like offering. 

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You sticker charts. 
Ya know. 

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So it's can be difficult to find
that match and it requires a lot

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more advocating for yourself. 
And especially if you haven't 

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been to therapy before being 
like, I don't think this is 

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right there. 
You're like, well, maybe this is

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just what therapy He is so it 
can be really difficult to 

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differentiate if it's not the 
right fit or if this is just a 

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new experience for you. 
Well, I love what you said about

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someone else, taking it out. 
The number thing you have to do 

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when you find the right, 
therapist is like, you know, 

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because you can get Word of 
Mouth referrals, which are cool 

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too, but just because they were 
the and that's why I say like 

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they're bizarre. 
Every woman, not that every 

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therapist is for everyone right 
now. 

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So your best friend, can have a 
therapist they love and that is 

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not the right match for you. 
So like you do have to do some 

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of that work. 
The same thing we're talking 

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about is like taking personal 
radical God's ability to, I get 

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enough sleep to I-10. 
Am I taking command of my own 

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life and healing? 
Yeah, and the one thing we know 

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at the most important predictor 
of therapeutic, success is the 

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relationship that you build with
your therapist. 

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And so often people, like, 
people stay in romantic 

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relationships that aren't right 
for them. 

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People stay in therapeutic 
relationships, that maybe aren't

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right for them and they don't 
know that there's anything else.

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And so you recommend a therapist
shop, we recommend to For 

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yourself to make sure that 
you're finding someone who is 

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the right fit for you. 
And as you were saying with the 

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The Adolescents piece, I think 
so often because the parents are

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recommending a therapist that 
adolescent already feels like 

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other therapist is aligned with 
my parents. 

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Yeah. 
And if you're if you're fighting

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up against your parents right 
and you want to become your own 

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person, you want to be able to 
speak your truth when you 

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already feel like the therapist 
is aligned with your parents. 

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There's already that, you know, 
breach of trust in the 

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relationship. 
So I think advocating for 

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yourself as Adolescent like 
doing the work, you know, 

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whether it's with your parents 
or whether it's, it can be 

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really, really helpful and in 
choosing the right therapist. 

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Yeah, the best therapist 
relationships that I've had as a

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teenager or the ones where you 
go in and they're the first 

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thing they say is like, okay, 
yes, your parents are paying me 

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like yes, they helped research 
but I'm your therapist. 

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I'm on your side. 
I'm in your corner. 

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Yes, they may give advice or try
and like put things on the 

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agenda, but I'm first and 
foremost here, to help you and 

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just setting that Boundary at 
the beginning and making it very

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clear, that that's kind of how 
things stand. 

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Just like, if you were an adult 
like some random friend that was

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like, I think this is what you 
should talk about in therapy 

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deck, okay? 
Thanks but no same thing for if 

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your parents are like let's have
this to the agenda. 

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Like it's not their session most
of the time unless you're doing 

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family therapy, which is a whole
other burden to tackling tough 

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one, something that a lot of 
people don't know, is in this 

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obviously depends on state, but 
like in the state of 

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Pennsylvania at 14 years old you
get to consent to your own 

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treatment meaning at 14 years 
old. 

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They can't tell your parents 
anything without a release of 

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information. 
Now that varies by state if you 

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have listeners from a lot of 
different places but 14 and 14, 

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we still think that our parents 
take care of everything for us. 

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We're like we think our parents 
are in everything. 

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You do have, right? 
It's something that we should 

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all think of, as we get older 
and we become parents ourselves.

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We should Empower our kids to 
know this information and to 

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respect that privacy and time. 
It's so true and it definitely 

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makes It's me think about so 
many experiences that I had at a

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therapeutic boarding school that
I went to that was definitely in

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the troubled teen industry and 
I'm such a big advocate for 

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treatment and therapy because it
was so helpful and there's also 

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this other side of things where 
I was like. 

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Well, that experience was not as
helpful and really illuminates 

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like what was helpful and that 
advocating for yourself that 

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privacy that at 14 consecutive 
treatment, like that wasn't 

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totally there. 
Because your parents were the 

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ones that were watch, much more 
involved, kids were getting sent

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to treatment. 
Regardless of if they wanted to 

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be there or not and in the long 
term, you just saw that people 

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that were being forced to be 
there. 

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They weren't dedicated. 
They weren't involved in the 

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process. 
They would jump through hoops 

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like myself included but just to
get out and it wasn't really 

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truly effective or helpful in 
seeing long-term results. 

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00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,900
Absolutely today's episode is 
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So I would love to hear from you

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00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:40,100
guys what you like to see and 
clients, obviously not like what

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00:15:40,100 --> 00:15:43,600
diagnoses are like, what 
presentations, but what is 

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00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,600
someone who brings a lot to the 
table? 

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00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,100
And you're like they want to be 
here. 

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00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:50,800
They're invested what helps a 
session run smoothly. 

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00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,300
Especially for people that are 
like I've never been to therapy 

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00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:55,100
but I want to try it. 
And I want to make sure I'm 

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00:15:55,108 --> 00:15:57,300
giving it my best shot. 
What is your guys 

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00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:01,600
recommendations? 
Well, yeah, I was just so that I

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think there's a lot of things 
that play into that. 

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00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:07,700
So we're probably just going to 
go back and forth with this but 

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because the fact of the matter 
is, everyone comes to therapy at

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different stages in their 
Readiness, or willingness to do 

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00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,000
any sort of change or work or 
dive into trauma. 

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And so, I want to say everything
with the caveat of Of. 

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We first and foremost empathize 
with the fact that everyone 

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comes in at different stages and
that's okay. 

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Part of our job is needing the 
clients where they are. 

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00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:39,400
And so, you know, I would say we
don't necessarily have an 

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00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,900
expectation on, you have to come
in at this very specific time in

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00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:47,000
order for us to do good work. 
I think something that is really

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helpful is going into therapy 
and it not just being the 50 

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00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,200
minutes in therapy that you're 
doing the work. 

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00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:58,000
That you're also taking what you
talk about in therapy outside of

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00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,700
the room and you're thinking 
about it. 

348
00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:03,100
You're processing it. 
Maybe you're doing some homework

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that the therapist gave but I 
think that that's that's one 

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00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,800
thing that's really helpful. 
Is to take what you're learning 

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00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,599
and therapy and bring it 
outside, right? 

352
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,099
Because we're only there for 50 
minutes. 

353
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If we were there for the entire 
week, you know, that would be 

354
00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:17,099
really rough, right? 
You don't want us to follow you 

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00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:19,000
around, you will not be able to 
know. 

356
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,599
I've done the intensive 
treatment on the five times a 

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week. 
It's a lot. 

358
00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:26,099
It's a lot a lot. 
So you don't want a therapist 24

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00:17:26,099 --> 00:17:29,000
set, you want to be able to take
the things you learn and really 

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00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,300
apply them. 
So I would say everyone's unique

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00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:34,400
and what they're bringing in and
and and I think an important 

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thing to note too, is that we 
understand that, sometimes it 

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might take years to dive into 
some really tough trauma or some

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00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:46,800
things that you never told 
anyone about that. 

365
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,600
It's not our expectation that 
you come in. 

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00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,200
You can if you feel ready for 
that. 

367
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:52,900
Absolutely. 
Before we're right there with 

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00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:57,500
you, but it isn't If you're a 
year two years into therapy and 

369
00:17:57,500 --> 00:17:59,700
you're thinking, I haven't told 
my therapist this and I feel 

370
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:01,700
like it's too late. 
It is never too late. 

371
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:05,300
It actually happens. 
So often that clients will come 

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00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:08,500
in and they don't disclose 
something to you after a year, 

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00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:12,400
two years, because sometimes it 
really takes time to build that 

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trust and build that therapeutic
relationship in order to feel 

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00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,300
safe enough to do. 
So I think, what are the things 

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00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:20,800
that drive to made things that 
come up? 

377
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,900
So one is, how are you spending?
Right. 

378
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,500
So what Jen said is that like 
Like 50 minutes once a week. 

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00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:28,600
Like realistically, if you did 
anything one time a week for 50 

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00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,100
minutes and then just like 
cataracts in it, the rest of the

381
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:32,800
week. 
Like, it wouldn't be that ideal.

382
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,600
Yeah. 
So what are those is like yes, 

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00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,500
Ed in those 50 minutes and my 
talking about myself or other 

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00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:44,000
people there is this part? 
A lot of times we end up in 

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00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,300
therapy because the people in 
life are there's like a quote 

386
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:48,400
that says like you're in therapy
because other people in your 

387
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,700
life art therapy, I think that's
true. 

388
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,000
But if you understand the entire
time, talking about your 

389
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,500
roommates shitty boyfriend, I 
don't get to hear about you. 

390
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,300
Why it hurts, you why it 
triggers? 

391
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:02,400
You why it brings up from you, 
right? 

392
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:04,100
So are you bringing about 
yourself? 

393
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:08,500
A lot of us are become resentful
of people in our life because we

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00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:11,500
make it all about them. 
And then we pay money and spend 

395
00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:13,700
50 minutes, making it about them
even more. 

396
00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:16,100
So, how do I bring back to 
myself, right? 

397
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Because the only person I can 
actually control and change is 

398
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,100
me, am I really prioritizing 
that in those sessions? 

399
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,800
and additionally, I also think 
If you have an issue with your 

400
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,100
therapist, if we say something 
that hurts you, if we say 

401
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:37,000
something that's Off the Mark, 
say it one of the best things 

402
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,900
you can do is to use the 
therapeutic relationship as a 

403
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:44,600
model and an experience for 
other relationships in your 

404
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:45,700
life. 
So, if you're someone who 

405
00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:49,700
struggles with conflict, have a 
conflict with your therapist. 

406
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,000
If your struggle, if you're 
someone with who struggles with 

407
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,400
saying, no, say no to your 
therapist with it. 

408
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,100
They need to switch that session
time, right? 

409
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:59,900
Like what The things, how am I 
actually practicing and using 

410
00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:03,900
the therapeutic relationship to 
then grow my relationships 

411
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:07,600
outside of the room? 
I think that's so true. 

412
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,500
And I think like, if there's 
anyone that you want to 

413
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:13,500
challenge a relationship Dynamic
with, it's the person that spent

414
00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:16,800
years in school and does this 
professionally with people all 

415
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:17,700
week. 
I like. 

416
00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:21,000
And that's, that is verse. 
That is exactly the point I was 

417
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,900
going to make, is that like, we 
are trained to make sure that we

418
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:26,800
can hold that space for you in 
whatever. 

419
00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:29,100
Ever whatever that looks like, 
right? 

420
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:33,900
It's we welcome feedback. 
We welcome you to come in and 

421
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:35,900
say certain things to us that 
maybe by right? 

422
00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:38,500
Like oh and the last session you
said this thing to me and it 

423
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:41,400
really triggered this for me. 
Can we talk about that? 

424
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,400
It's actually so important and 
kind of essential for us to be 

425
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,200
able to help you do that work 
because for you to be able to 

426
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,400
bring that into therapy and and 
work through that in your 

427
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,300
therapeutic relationship allows 
you to take that and bring it 

428
00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:57,500
into your relationships outside.
If therapy. 

429
00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,300
So the work that you do, 
sometimes in the session, you 

430
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:03,900
can bring outside into your 
other relationships, we make 

431
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:06,400
mistakes all the time, right? 
Like I've had men. 

432
00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:10,500
Oh my gosh, I had a client a few
months ago who I have worked 

433
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:12,600
with person for years and years 
years, we have an amazing 

434
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,200
relationship, I love them. 
Dearly we talked a lot and she 

435
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,700
came into session and she said I
have to bring up the sing and 

436
00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:20,800
she said don't get into 
advice-giving mode. 

437
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,700
She said to me, right? 
And you want to know what I 

438
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:26,800
think I would have because the 
thing that she brought up was 

439
00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:28,500
Was something we had done this 
work on. 

440
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:30,600
We had done this thing, but she 
that wasn't where she was at 

441
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,000
right now. 
And she was able to ask for 

442
00:21:32,008 --> 00:21:34,300
exactly what she needed. 
And that shouldn't have been her

443
00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:37,500
job in the room, but the fact 
that she was able to do that 

444
00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:40,200
after all this time together. 
Yeah. 

445
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,600
And I was able to say you are. 
So right. 

446
00:21:43,700 --> 00:21:46,200
Let's just hear this today. 
It's just process. 

447
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,200
Let's just be quiet around this,
right? 

448
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,600
Like, that is powerful because 
it also showed her she's allowed

449
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,100
to say that to people. 
All over. 

450
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:57,500
Even if it doesn't go great, 
even if people are reactive, 

451
00:21:57,500 --> 00:22:00,800
once you have it, start to 
happen once which you start to 

452
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,800
have something you start to feel
empowered. 

453
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,500
That's Mastery. 
That's how we build self-esteem.

454
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:08,500
Self-esteem is not built from 
somebody tell you, you're pretty

455
00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:10,400
and smart and lovely. 
Although, that's a lovely things

456
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,600
to do. 
Self-esteem is built through 

457
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:16,700
Mastery. 
Keeping promises to yourself and

458
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:19,600
growing yourself in that way. 
Yeah, I love that. 

459
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,900
And I also really like what you 
guys mentioned about, how you 

460
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,700
Necessarily need to bring 
everything on day one. 

461
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:28,000
I also think for my own therapy 
Journey, the beginning. 

462
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,500
I would just go there and I 
would like at times literally 

463
00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:38,100
run out the clock. 
My parents are paying, but I 

464
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:41,300
would stare at the clock and I 
would do nothing. 

465
00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:43,200
I feel so bad for this 
therapist. 

466
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,300
I was not the star client, but 
no wonder she didn't pick up 

467
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,400
unlike my extreme depression 
diagnosis because I would sit 

468
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,400
there and stare at the ground 
and do nothing for the whole 

469
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,300
hour. 
I've gotten so much more out of 

470
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:56,900
therapy if I bring something 
that I want to talk about in 

471
00:22:56,908 --> 00:23:00,000
session, it's some kind of 
agenda think about what's been 

472
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,900
bugging me this week and it 
doesn't have to be like some 

473
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:06,000
deep belief system or trauma 
that you'd experience sometimes.

474
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,400
I'm like, my goal for this week 
is, I want to improve my habits.

475
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,000
I'm going to try and work out 
this number of times and I just 

476
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,500
cannot do it. 
What do we do to address that? 

477
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,400
Or like I have these School 
assignments, that I'm really 

478
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,300
struggling with procrastination.
What are the tips there? 

479
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:21,700
How can I make sure I get that 
done. 

480
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:24,400
So it's little things, it 
doesn't have Be super deep but 

481
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,100
you're at least getting some 
need met and something that 

482
00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:30,100
you're going through addressed 
and then you leave the session 

483
00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:34,000
more prepared to navigate that, 
I love that you brought that up 

484
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,700
because I think there is a 
preconceived notion about what 

485
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:38,600
you need to be bringing into 
therapy. 

486
00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:42,100
And every session can look 
different and it's such a 

487
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:44,400
journey in such a process, 
right? 

488
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,800
I think there's this idea of 
your going into therapy. 0 means

489
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,900
you're going to talk about your 
childhood wounds for like years 

490
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:52,000
and years and years like yes. 
Some sessions are like that but 

491
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,000
they don't have to be. 
And part of the process is going

492
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,600
going deep, and then coming back
up and going deep. 

493
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,000
And then coming back up, right? 
There's a level of safety that's

494
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,100
created in that. 
So I love that so much because I

495
00:24:02,108 --> 00:24:05,800
really think that that dispels, 
the myth of you have to go into 

496
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,100
every session in a certain way 
and that's not true. 

497
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:12,200
Yeah, what other myths do you 
guys commonly hear people? 

498
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,100
Whether it's from clients, 
whether it's people in your 

499
00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:18,000
community that they have about 
therapy about treatment about 

500
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,500
mental health, that you're like,
that is just so absolutely not 

501
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,600
true and I wish people were 
more, people knew this So we 

502
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,100
actually just talked about one 
of these on a podcast because we

503
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:29,200
are couples therapist to this 
idea. 

504
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,100
That if you're going to couples 
therapy, there might be there 

505
00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:37,300
must be something really wrong 
in the relationship where we 

506
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:41,800
actually recommend couples 
therapy at any point in the 

507
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:42,900
relationship. 
Yeah. 

508
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:47,800
Because couples tend to go to 
couples therapy seven years too 

509
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,700
late. 
Oh my goodness. 

510
00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:52,200
Wow. 
And they come in and they're 

511
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,600
already. 
He out the door and there's no 

512
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,000
work that can be done in that 
point. 

513
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,500
So in terms of couples therapy, 
I would say that's one big one. 

514
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:03,000
Is that, I believe that you 
because no one ever taught us 

515
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,700
how to be in a relationship, 
right? 

516
00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:08,300
Like that's and being a 
relationship is very difficult 

517
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:10,700
and I actually, if you're 
modeling from the relationships,

518
00:25:10,700 --> 00:25:13,300
you've seen in your life and 
they're not healthy, or they're 

519
00:25:13,300 --> 00:25:15,700
not good Dynamics. 
It's like, okay, we need to get 

520
00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:19,100
some help and rivers that end. 
There's, unfortunately so much 

521
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:22,700
shame around that. 
But it really is, we find it. 

522
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,500
Important to just do that 
maintenance to learn about your 

523
00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:29,300
partner to learn about yourself.
Can be so incredibly helpful in 

524
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:31,600
your room and your romantic 
relationships. 

525
00:25:32,500 --> 00:25:34,600
I think another really big myth.
We talk about a lot is that you 

526
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,400
should leave every therapy 
session, feeling better. 

527
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:47,900
There's that's not true. 
I should feel so amazing when I 

528
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:51,600
walk out the door, like no, like
we're not giving you like we're 

529
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,500
not giving you like a Oxycodone.
And then your water, the 

530
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:59,500
psychiatrist you feel worse. 
So I think one thinking that, 

531
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:02,600
like everything is going to feel
amazing and perfect and 

532
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,100
wonderful and rose-colored 
glasses. 

533
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:06,500
That's toxic positivity 
bullshit. 

534
00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:11,200
And I would also say, thinking 
that it's going to one of the 

535
00:26:11,208 --> 00:26:13,300
things that makes it difficult, 
especially in college. 

536
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:16,900
Campuses is sometimes you only 
get like five to ten sessions. 

537
00:26:17,300 --> 00:26:18,800
Yeah, yeah. 
Hey. 

538
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,900
Which is a rule. 
If you're dealing with like one 

539
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:23,400
roommate issue, when you like 
this is, I just had To do this. 

540
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,700
We're just talking this out and 
maybe you only need five 

541
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:29,400
sessions to do that, but for a 
lot of us we need more than five

542
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,400
to ten sessions so having this 
expectation on how long it will 

543
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,400
or should take can sometimes set
us up for feeling disappointed 

544
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,900
or feeling like we're not doing 
enough and feel like we're 

545
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:42,600
failing at therapy. 
Like that's not how this is. 

546
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:47,200
It is not one-size-fits-all, it 
is not one perfect thing and I 

547
00:26:47,208 --> 00:26:50,600
also think that all therapists 
are exactly the same, there's so

548
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,600
many different modalities of 
therapy. 

549
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,500
You You have to find the right 
one for you, right? 

550
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:59,100
Like so maybe CBT works but CBT 
dozen or DBT does, but a somatic

551
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:00,900
doesn't right. 
There's so many different types 

552
00:27:00,900 --> 00:27:04,000
and I know that it can be really
confusing because we don't want.

553
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,100
And what see if we don't 
educate. 

554
00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:07,100
I don't know mental health. 
We're not like he hears a 

555
00:27:07,100 --> 00:27:09,500
different types of therapy will 
say to your doing that but we're

556
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:11,300
not doing that he was right. 
Right. 

557
00:27:11,300 --> 00:27:12,400
Right. 
So I'm gonna do that in like 

558
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:13,800
high school. 
Like we do when we should be 

559
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,000
learning like mental health in 
our taxes, mainly we just assume

560
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,700
everything's the same. 
So not all therapies created, 

561
00:27:21,700 --> 00:27:25,300
equal, not all. 
This is the same so it's not 

562
00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:29,200
easy and it's not simple and it 
takes time and the expectations 

563
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,600
can make us feel a lot of 
disappointment around this 

564
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,300
experience and your other. 
Another one that I want to 

565
00:27:35,308 --> 00:27:40,900
mention is that you know your 
therapist very much cares about 

566
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:43,600
you and thinks about you outside
of your session. 

567
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:46,700
Because I think you know 
sometimes you know if people 

568
00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:48,800
think about mental health are 
you just doing it for the money 

569
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,200
or you're just right or you have
to care about me because I'm 

570
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,600
paying for you? 
Oh, that is actually so not true

571
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,700
weave. 
So care for our clients and we 

572
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:01,000
think about you outside of 
outside of your session. 

573
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,300
We think about how you're doing,
we think about what's going on 

574
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:05,500
for you and we still need money 
to eat. 

575
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:13,500
We still need money to eat right
much exist. 

576
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:17,200
Both things are very can exist 
in the same dialect Lane. 

577
00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:21,300
Exactly, exactly. 
So we very, very much care about

578
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:23,300
our clients. 
I That. 

579
00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:26,200
So you guys work in family 
systems, I would love to hear 

580
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,000
about that. 
Is, we talked about learning 

581
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,600
about the different types of 
therapy. 

582
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,800
Talk to me about that modality 
and how that shows up, whether 

583
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,600
it's like couples therapy with 
teenagers with adults, all of 

584
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,900
that. 
So, yeah. 

585
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:41,000
So, we're trained our, we're 
licensed marriage and family 

586
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,300
therapist, which what that 
actually means is that we are 

587
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:46,600
trained in family systems, so we
look at everything within the 

588
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,300
context around it. 
It doesn't mean that we only 

589
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:51,600
work with a lot of couples and 
families, but we also work with 

590
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,400
a lot of individuals. 
It just means when I work with 

591
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,800
you as an individual. 
I'm also thinking about all the 

592
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,600
different systems you come from,
so how work impacts, you how 

593
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,200
your family of origin, impacts 
you how in the generational 

594
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,800
trauma affects you. 
And so, we're just looking at 

595
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,700
everyone as part as a larger 
system for me to understand how 

596
00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:13,400
to best help you, because we 
believe relationships really 

597
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,800
matter. 
It's incredibly popular in this 

598
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,200
day and age just say like, let's
just cut people off but actually

599
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,500
what we try to get people to do 
is to not cut people off. 

600
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:29,000
Hard, uncomfortable, frustrating
conversations for growth. 

601
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,400
And that is what a lot of family
systems is so really looking at 

602
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,400
the context of the situation 
that say be everything you've 

603
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,200
been through in your life. 
Also is a product of all the 

604
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,800
systems. 
You've been a part of something,

605
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,700
something that can be really 
helpful with that. 

606
00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:46,400
Work is helping you to not 
recreate patterns in your family

607
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,900
systems that maybe were 
dysfunctional or maybe we're not

608
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:52,400
working for you. 
So helping, you know, if we 

609
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,400
working with an individual, 
we're working with a couple of 

610
00:29:54,408 --> 00:29:57,400
helping you recognize the 
patterns that you might be 

611
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,500
recreating in your current 
relationships. 

612
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:02,100
You might not even be realizing 
it or recognizing it. 

613
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:03,900
So helping you gain that 
awareness. 

614
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,500
So that if you're bringing 
something into your 

615
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:09,800
relationships that was once 
serving you or was normalized in

616
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,900
your families, but is no longer 
serving you and is hurting you 

617
00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:15,200
in some way to help you 
acknowledge that and help you 

618
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,300
make changes to that. 
The one of the things you might 

619
00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:22,400
that might happen in the first 
few sessions with an mft is we 

620
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,300
ask A three generations back. 
I also want to know about your 

621
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:28,800
parents and their story about 
their grandparents, right? 

622
00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:32,700
Because we also believe that 
like it's easy to blame the 

623
00:30:32,700 --> 00:30:35,800
parents for like, how do we have
empathy and understands why 

624
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,700
people are the way that they 
are. 

625
00:30:37,900 --> 00:30:40,500
We truly believe everyone has a 
story. 

626
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:43,900
In part of our family systems is
also narrative therapy. 

627
00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:47,200
Where we believe people have 
stories that they write and we 

628
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,400
also get to rewrite them at any 
time. 

629
00:30:49,500 --> 00:30:52,500
So what's the story I'm telling 
myself about who I am? 

630
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:54,900
What The story I tell myself 
that my parents was the story. 

631
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:57,700
My parents have about me and 
this goes for, like, you know, 

632
00:30:57,700 --> 00:30:59,800
the stories people put on to you
as well. 

633
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,300
People make you out to be a 
certain way, when you have a 

634
00:31:02,308 --> 00:31:05,200
mental health, diagnosis at a 
young age and it actually says 

635
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,700
very little about your future. 
Yeah. 

636
00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:10,800
Yeah, no. 
And if anything I found that 

637
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,500
having had a diagnosis early on,
I feel more equipped to navigate

638
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:16,500
any challenges or emotions that 
arise. 

639
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:22,100
Like I was so sensitive to any 
like environmental stressor or 

640
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:24,200
trigger. 
When I was like a teenager and 

641
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,500
really, really struggling and 
the other day, my friend was 

642
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:29,400
like nothing, really fazes, you 
like you're pretty chill and I 

643
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,700
was like that is such a 
compliment because that's so did

644
00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:35,800
not used to be the case. 
But it's like I've built up this

645
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,800
ability to cope with the things 
that come at me and know how to 

646
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,500
navigate the emotions that 
arise. 

647
00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:44,300
And if anything that's a huge 
strength because most people 

648
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:48,000
learned that way later on in 
life, oh yeah, I always tell 

649
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,500
everyone it's better to have 
your break down your teens in 

650
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:54,100
your 20s because if now you come
I'm in my office and you have it

651
00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:56,100
in your fifties which is fine 
to. 

652
00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:57,600
We're always going to make it 
work. 

653
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,900
But I like it nice existential 
break down early on totally even

654
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:05,300
if the child gets to work 
through it because you really, 

655
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:07,200
you know, we don't get when you 
get through it. 

656
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,700
You learn a set of coping skills
as you're saying that are so 

657
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:14,900
beneficial to you as an adult. 
Also logistically, like I took a

658
00:32:14,908 --> 00:32:17,800
semester off of school did a 
year and a half of treatment, 

659
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,900
like when else are you going to 
have time for that? 

660
00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:23,100
And it didn't impact College. 
I was still able to Things 

661
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:26,600
around like earlier on guys, 
it's the move I promised a 

662
00:32:26,608 --> 00:32:30,100
hundred percent and you created 
incredible Mission out of it and

663
00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:32,900
an incredible podcast which is 
unbelievable. 

664
00:32:33,100 --> 00:32:36,500
Thank you, I appreciate that. 
Today's episode is brought to 

665
00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:40,000
you by nut, pods not pods 
creamers, are plant-based Whole 

666
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:44,300
30 approved kosher non-GMO vegan
and gluten-free and they have 

667
00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:47,400
zero grams of sugar per serving.
What I love about nap pods is, 

668
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,300
you can stock up on your 
favorite creamers and because 

669
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:51,500
they're plant-based, you don't 
have to refrigerate them as soon

670
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:54,000
as you buy them, so I'll get it.
Like three or four containers. 

671
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,900
I will keep them in my dorm, but
not in the fridge because the 

672
00:32:56,900 --> 00:33:00,200
mini fridge space is precious. 
So I will put whichever 

673
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,600
container I'm currently using in
the fridge. 

674
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,900
The Restless put in storage, my 
favorite flavors are sweet cream

675
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:07,700
and French vanilla. 
They are delicious and they 

676
00:33:07,700 --> 00:33:09,700
taste like they have sugar in 
them which we love. 

677
00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:11,900
Make sure to get sweetened 
unless you like unsweetened 

678
00:33:11,900 --> 00:33:13,900
creamers, in which case they 
have those as well. 

679
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:16,600
And they also just came out with
a new oat milk, so I will add 

680
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,700
sweet and creamer to that blend.
It is that the right word with 

681
00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:22,600
my little like milk frother 
thingy that I got on Amazon. 

682
00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:25,500
And it tastes just like a 
Starbucks, we cream cold found. 

683
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:28,200
So, highly recommend trying 
their new Barista oat milk, as 

684
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,400
well as their creamers. 
You can use code. 

685
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,300
She persisted podcast at 
checkout for 15 percent off your

686
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:36,600
order, or use the link in 
today's show notes, so code, she

687
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,000
persisted podcast for 15% off, 
check it out. 

688
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,000
I promise you will enjoy and 
I'll just add a little more 

689
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,500
yumminess to your morning 
routine. 

690
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,500
So we talked about kind of 
rewriting narratives having 

691
00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:52,000
empathy for people in your life.
Are there other lessons that you

692
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,000
will often Ian, that clients are
often learning in therapy that 

693
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,400
they are applying these insights
that they have that they're 

694
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,200
like, whoa. 
I've never thought about it. 

695
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,700
That way, before that you're 
often helping people work 

696
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:04,400
through another. 
It's a very vague question. 

697
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,200
No. 
Well, it all day every day. 

698
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,699
Yeah, like constantly. 
So, so, I think, you know, one 

699
00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:11,300
of the big things that I, you 
know, just mentioned and to dive

700
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:14,600
into a, you know, a little 
deeper is that sometimes we 

701
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:20,000
learn ways of surviving as 
children that were once so 

702
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,800
functional for us, right? 
So, for example, If, you know, 

703
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,600
when you were a child 
expressing, your emotions wasn't

704
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,699
allowed, right? 
So, the way in, which you dealt 

705
00:34:28,699 --> 00:34:32,100
with that was to hold it in and 
not tell anyone how you felt not

706
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:33,699
that. 
This is a personal experience at

707
00:34:33,699 --> 00:34:35,000
all. 
No. 

708
00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:37,900
No. 
And so, but as you get older, 

709
00:34:37,900 --> 00:34:40,699
that is that is something that 
helped you survived when you 

710
00:34:40,699 --> 00:34:42,900
were a child, right? 
Because expressing your emotions

711
00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:44,500
was not going to be helpful for 
you. 

712
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:48,199
As you get as you turn into an 
adult and you get into 

713
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,900
relationships, not expressing 
your emotions. 

714
00:34:51,100 --> 00:34:52,500
Actually ends up hurting you, 
right? 

715
00:34:52,699 --> 00:34:55,300
You're not a willing participant
in your relationships. 

716
00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:57,200
If you're not willing to express
your emotions, you're not 

717
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,000
letting anyone else. 
Know how you feel. 

718
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,300
There's no way for anyone to 
know, so there's something when 

719
00:35:02,300 --> 00:35:06,200
you take the things that you 
learned that helped you survive 

720
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,800
at one point in your life and 
you bring them into adulthood 

721
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,800
and you don't even realize that 
you're doing it. 

722
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,100
You don't even realize that 
these things are hurting you 

723
00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:17,100
really learning how to 
relinquish that and recognize 

724
00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:21,200
that you no longer need those 
coping mechanisms as a way to 

725
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,000
survive. 
I Is a big aha moment. 

726
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,800
Sometimes it takes people a 
while to get there because it's 

727
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,300
so terrifying to let go of the 
things that were once. 

728
00:35:30,300 --> 00:35:33,200
So, incredibly helpful for you 
or surviving, they kept you 

729
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:34,500
alive. 
Exactly. 

730
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:36,700
Exactly. 
And they kept you connected to 

731
00:35:36,700 --> 00:35:38,600
your parents, right? 
So being connected to your 

732
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,500
parents or your caregivers when 
you're a child is essential. 

733
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,600
And so as you get older and you 
recognize, listen, I'm in a 

734
00:35:44,607 --> 00:35:47,200
dilemma fully functioning adult.
I can take care of myself. 

735
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,200
So how do I want to live my life
as opposed to the things that 

736
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,000
are driving me? 
The things that were once 

737
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,300
survival for me and I really 
bringing me down. 

738
00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:58,300
They're not helping me anymore. 
I think that that's a huge thing

739
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:02,400
that is really helpful and in 
therapy and I think one of the 

740
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,800
things we also talked about in 
regards to that is what the 

741
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,400
general public calls 
expectations. 

742
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,300
We call unconscious contracts, 
right. 

743
00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:11,600
So like we go into relationships
with conscious unconscious, 

744
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,700
contracts, those are 
expectations. 

745
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:16,500
They're typically not spoken 
ones, right? 

746
00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:19,900
So I have an expectation gen I 
own a business together, right? 

747
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:22,900
So if I have an unconscious 
contract because of that She 

748
00:36:22,900 --> 00:36:27,000
should be fully loyal to me and 
never talk back to me or never 

749
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,600
have an issue with something. 
I'm saying that's not real, or 

750
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,000
fair or true, right? 
But if I haven't unconscious 

751
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,300
expectation of, I already put us
in an unconscious contract. 

752
00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:42,100
It means that when Jen does 
something where she says, he 

753
00:36:42,107 --> 00:36:44,100
hadn't really like that thing 
you did or this didn't work for 

754
00:36:44,100 --> 00:36:46,200
me. 
I think she violated a contract,

755
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,500
and I see it as a betrayal, even
though it wasn't. 

756
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:52,500
So we can exist together goes 
back to the dinosaurs. 

757
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,200
Dialectical. 
Some of the dichotomy stuff is 

758
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,000
that there's so many parts of 
all of us and what are the 

759
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,800
expectations? 
The unconscious contracts, the 

760
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,700
things I'm entering into 
relationships with and maybe I 

761
00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:05,500
need to take a little bit 
deeper. 

762
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:08,800
Look, that what I'm thinking, 
other people should be doing. 

763
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,000
And then also, what am I 
thinking and expectation, I'm 

764
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,600
putting on myself. 
Yeah, that's huge. 

765
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,600
It's a small reframe, but it can
have such a big impact on your 

766
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,600
relationships on the way, you're
seeing things. 

767
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,500
So many different implication. 
Absolutely. 

768
00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:23,200
And those things can come from 
our Families. 

769
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,700
Right. 
Like expectations that our 

770
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:27,900
families passed on to us. 
They can also come from societal

771
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:30,200
expectations, right? 
Like what Society tell, what 

772
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,200
social media telling me? 
I should be doing right now? 

773
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,000
What point in time am I in my 
life? 

774
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,400
Telling me I should be in Tulum 
because everyone needs to be 

775
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,800
there. 
I'm giving baby videos all over 

776
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,400
my feet and I'm like, I'm 19 in 
college, what have I done to 

777
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,500
attract this? 
Like, it is the, even the 

778
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:54,700
algorithm, right? 
Like, so like this, That we are 

779
00:37:54,700 --> 00:37:58,300
being influenced so much. 
Unbelievable. 

780
00:37:58,300 --> 00:38:00,600
So that's those are some other 
things that we can help you 

781
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,500
break down. 
Because once again these are so 

782
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,500
subconscious to us that we don't
even realize that were 

783
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:08,700
functioning in that way. 
Yeah, right. 

784
00:38:08,700 --> 00:38:11,500
We have this maybe like timeline
on our lives that we don't 

785
00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:15,800
realize is they're from society 
from our families from and we're

786
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,300
pushing things forward that 
maybe we don't even want, right?

787
00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:19,900
Maybe, we haven't even asked 
ourselves. 

788
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:22,500
Do I really want this or is this
something that Society? 

789
00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:25,800
Like Society expects of me are 
there certain? 

790
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,800
Like I don't want to use like 
red flags because it's been good

791
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,200
to observe these things but 
certain thought patterns are 

792
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,300
beliefs that are associated with
having these expectations that 

793
00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:38,700
people can be mindful of, if you
hear yourself saying, should a 

794
00:38:38,707 --> 00:38:41,400
lot, right? 
If you're saying, I should do 

795
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,400
this, go ahead and 
disappointment resentment. 

796
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,600
If you feel live, disappointment
relationships, a lot of 

797
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,500
resentment and relationships, 
then you're doing those sugars. 

798
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:52,200
Just like Jen said, right? 
That like it, because you're 

799
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,000
putting In all this stuff on 
other people. 

800
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,900
So if you find like, why am I 
not happy and right, like am I 

801
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:00,900
causing my own suffering in some
ways? 

802
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,200
Yeah, you're shutting all over 
yourself. 

803
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,100
I love it, I love it. 
No. 

804
00:39:06,100 --> 00:39:08,200
And I think that's one of the 
biggest things for me, 

805
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,700
especially, it was that I did. 
Cause a lot of my suffering. 

806
00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:15,200
I got in my own way, a lot and 
that takes a lot of undoing. 

807
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,400
It's like, belief systems its 
relationships. 

808
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,000
It's behaviors. 
It's all of those things and 

809
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,400
having that therapeutic 
relationship to help work 

810
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,300
through, That is huge coming 
full circle. 

811
00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:29,200
We talked about how therapies 
for everyone are there. 

812
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,000
Certain things that people can 
be aware of today? 

813
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,300
Like therapy might be helpful 
whether it's different 

814
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:35,800
relationships or they're 
struggling with a behavior or a 

815
00:39:35,808 --> 00:39:39,600
belief or emotions that would 
clue you in to be like, you know

816
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,700
what, it could be helpful to get
support. 

817
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,300
Yeah, I think therapy really is 
helpful for everyone. 

818
00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:48,600
Whether you're having red flags 
or not, right. 

819
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,500
But I think the sort of things 
is, if I end up disappointed in 

820
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:54,500
my relationships, if I end up 
resentful, if I find myself, 

821
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:58,800
irritable often, if I find that,
I either lash out or shut down 

822
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,900
both our emotional reactions. 
Like, I think, sometimes we 

823
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:04,100
think only lashing out the 
emotional reaction but also if 

824
00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:07,100
you shut it down, if I'm an 
employee overson Exploder, all 

825
00:40:07,100 --> 00:40:08,800
of those are times to be like 
you. 

826
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,700
I know what, like it could be 
cool to processes out with 

827
00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:15,200
someone and Not the same as 
talking to your friends so often

828
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,500
people like oh but I had my 
friends to talk to that's the 

829
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:22,100
blind leading the blind at. 
Yeah, would you Girlfriends, 

830
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,100
like really is telling agers 
when you go to your friend, if 

831
00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:28,500
you had like, you know, like I 
guess if you're probably 

832
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:29,500
Strokes. 
Yeah. 

833
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:47,300
But is it giving you a different
or is it still the same thing 

834
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:51,200
that keeps happening? 
Yeah, I think rumination to like

835
00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:54,600
Very in your head about certain 
things can be a really kind of a

836
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,700
big, you know, this might be a 
good time to go to therapy if 

837
00:40:57,700 --> 00:41:01,200
you just find yourself, not in 
the present moment and and more.

838
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,500
So in your head a lot rethinking
things, thinking about things 

839
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:08,400
like kind of battling your own 
mind, that might be a good time 

840
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,400
to go to therapy. 
Yeah, there's another thing that

841
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,500
I love to mention that I learned
in my normal psychology class 

842
00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:18,500
which is that people that 
present with extreme symptoms 

843
00:41:18,500 --> 00:41:22,200
and presentations. 
They tend to seek treatment very

844
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,900
quickly and they're able to get 
support, they're able to go. 

845
00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:27,900
And to remission is not the 
right word, recovery. 

846
00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:31,400
Whatever it is a lot quicker 
than people that are presenting 

847
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,500
in a much smaller way. 
It's not completely derail in 

848
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:37,300
your life, but it's having 
negative impacts and it ends up 

849
00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:41,000
lasting for decades and having 
much more detrimental impacts 

850
00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:43,200
because they're like, well, I 
don't need treatment yet. 

851
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,600
I don't need therapy. 
I don't need support. 

852
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,500
It's not that bad. 
And in some ways it becomes so 

853
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:50,200
much more severe because it 
impacts so much more of your 

854
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:55,000
life because you Gotten that 
support and it is so true, 

855
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,200
right? 
And I think a lot of it has to 

856
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:57,700
do with. 
Are you high functioning, right?

857
00:41:57,900 --> 00:41:59,600
These people like you know you 
could drink a lot be a 

858
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,800
high-functioning alcoholic. 
You can have be a 

859
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,400
high-functioning eating 
disorder, could have high 

860
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,400
functioning depression and when 
you're still functioning in the 

861
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,400
socially appropriate mainstream 
way, which first of all, we have

862
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,900
a sick Society like really 
obsessed with productivity like 

863
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:14,400
right? 
Like just because you're like 

864
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:16,900
normal in this Society like 
isn't meaning shit. 

865
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:20,500
So yeah right so like if I'm 
having all of these things how 

866
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:22,300
high functioning Am I? 
It's so true. 

867
00:42:22,300 --> 00:42:24,700
People are becoming less and 
they think like well I can get 

868
00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:25,900
out of bed. 
I don't have to pressure, it's 

869
00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:29,300
not what this looks like and so 
some of these and that's also 

870
00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:33,500
how I think TV and movie has two
has wheelie, displayed 

871
00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:37,800
depression, which is not 
accurate for the majority of 

872
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,300
people who would be diagnosed 
with depression. 

873
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,300
And and I think you know, part 
of this just as we were talking 

874
00:42:43,300 --> 00:42:45,200
about in couples therapy like 
Digby. 

875
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,500
Stigmatizing the conversation 
around just going to a therapist

876
00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:53,300
right at any point that it 
Doesn't mean you have to be, you

877
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:56,400
know, at this breakdown, right? 
That if you're battling your own

878
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,000
mind, if you're struggling in 
your relationships at any point,

879
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,800
it can be helpful to go to 
therapy. 

880
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,400
Yeah, it's such a great resource
and I completely agree with you 

881
00:43:05,408 --> 00:43:08,200
guys that with what you guys 
said that therapy's for everyone

882
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,900
and you can find some benefit 
with some therapist because 

883
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:14,300
there are like endless 
possibilities of what you can 

884
00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:17,200
work on what you can dive into 
and it's all what you want to 

885
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,600
bring to the table. 
Like again, there's like no set.

886
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,000
This is what you have to focus 
on this. 

887
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,200
What you have to talk about, 
like it can be anything and 

888
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,200
everything that's important to 
you, and that's what makes it so

889
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,000
amazing. 
Only, absolutely, I love that. 

890
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,000
Well, thank you guys so, so much
for coming and sitting down for 

891
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:35,700
this conversation. 
I know it's going to help so 

892
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:37,900
many people. 
I absolutely loved it. 

893
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,300
Where can people follow along 
with your content? 

894
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,400
You can find our podcast 
anywhere that you listened to 

895
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,500
your podcast called shrink 
chicks. 

896
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,100
We also have a therapy practice 
called the R&B group. 

897
00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:54,700
We're currently seeing our 
clinician, we have 30 

898
00:43:54,700 --> 00:43:56,800
clinicians, they're seeing 
clients in person and are 

899
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,800
Westchester and Philadelphia 
offices. 

900
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,900
Also doing virtual in 
Pennsylvania, New Jersey, 

901
00:44:02,900 --> 00:44:05,800
Delaware, New York, 
Massachusetts, Florida, and 

902
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,700
California. 
So if your home any of those 

903
00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:11,000
States, all those places you 
can, you can fill out a contact 

904
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,300
form and we can set you up with 
the therapist and I think that's

905
00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:16,700
it. 
And we got anything else. 

906
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,800
Go that's it, go to therapy, go 
to self, Chico to therapy. 

907
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,100
Yes, and Sadie. 
Thank you so much for just like 

908
00:44:25,100 --> 00:44:29,200
creating this platform. 
I wish I was as confident in 

909
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,300
myself and just did the amount 
of work that you did. 

910
00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:35,300
I wasn't always like this, I 
thought of work but it's 

911
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:37,400
incredible. 
It really is incredible. 

912
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,100
What you're doing? 
We appreciate you. 

913
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:41,900
I appreciate you guys. 
Thank you so much for listening 

914
00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:43,800
to this week's episode of she 
persisted. 

915
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,200
If you enjoyed, make sure to 
share with a friend or family 

916
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,400
member. 
It really helps out the podcast 

917
00:44:48,500 --> 00:44:51,100
and if you haven't already leave
a review on Apple. 

918
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,700
Cast or Spotify. 
You can also make sure to follow

919
00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:56,900
along at at she persisted 
podcast on both Instagram and 

920
00:44:56,900 --> 00:45:00,000
Tick-Tock and check out all the 
bonus resources content and 

921
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,500
information on my website. 
She persisted podcast.com, 

922
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,500
thanks for supporting, keep 
persisting and I'll see you next

923
00:45:06,500 --> 00:45:07,000
week.