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Welcome to she persisted I'm 
your host Sadie Saxton a 19 year

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old from the Bay Area studying 
psychology at the University of 

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Pennsylvania. 
She persisted is the Teen Mental

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Health podcast made for 
teenagers by a team in each 

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episode. 
I'll bring you authentic 

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accessible and relatable 
conversations about every aspect

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of mental Wellness. 
You can expect evidence-based, 

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Tina, proof resources, coping 
skills, including lots of DBT, 

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insights and education. 
In each piece of content, you 

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consume, she persisted Offers 
you a safe space to feel 

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validated and understood in your
struggle. 

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While encouraging you to take 
ownership of your journey and 

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build your life worth living. 
So let's Dive In. 

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Hello, hello, and welcome back 
to. 

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She persisted today's episode is
all about sleep. 

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One of my favorite things, I'm 
still struggling with my sleep, 

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which you will hear about in 
this episode, but this 

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conversation was so helpful and 
enlightening, and I had so many 

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tips that I've implemented since
this conversation and will 

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continue to implement. 
So our guests today are Heather 

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turgeon and Julie, right? 
They are marriage and family, 

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therapists that specialize in 
sleep training. 

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They wrote one book for sleep 
training, for infants, and 

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newborns and another for 
teenagers. 

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And Why teens struggle so much 
with sleep. 

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That one's called generation 
Sleepless. 

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I highly recommend you check it 
out. 

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And also follow them on 
Instagram. 

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All of the links will be in 
today's show notes, but let's 

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learn about sleep. 
Thank you so much. 

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Julie, and Heather for joining 
me today on. 

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She persisted, I'm so excited to
have you on the show. 

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Thank you for having us. 
Thank you. 

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First, of course. 
So to start off, I'd love to 

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hear about your background and 
how you started working in the 

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field of mental health and 
specializing in sleep. 

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So Julie, if you want to start 
and then Heather as well. 

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Sure. 
Sure. 

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Yeah, Heather. 
And I are both psychotherapist 

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marriage and family therapists 
and we met. 

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We were talking about this the 
other day we must have met 

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around 16, 17 years ago, we were
both leading classes. 

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We were each leading our own 
class for like moms with new 

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babies and we kept meeting each 
each other outside the 

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classroom. 
And we kept saying we should 

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have coffee. 
We should have a copy. 

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Yes, I'm finally one day we had 
coffee and that was that was the

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end of it. 
I could not stop talking, we 

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were both really interested in 
sleep. 

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We were really like-minded on 
why we thought a new book about 

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sleep, for babies and young 
children, which was our first 

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book, we wrote a book called The
Happy Sleeper, why why it was 

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needed? 
Because there's tons of, I don't

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know if you know this but 
there's tons of books on that 

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already written, but we really 
felt like there was something 

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new to say. 
And that the Sleep sort of wars 

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that parents were engaging. 
Aging in or being a victim to 

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were necessary. 
So it's relevant to our 

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discussion today to that one of 
our main messages is that sleep 

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is natural. 
Our bodies are built to sleep, 

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our bodies want to sleep. 
The reason main reasons we don't

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sleep is that something external
is getting in the way and we 

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just need to get that out of the
way. 

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So our bodies can do what 
they're already very hard wired 

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to do. 
I love that how they're how did 

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you start working in the mental 
health field? 

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Being a psychotherapist and 
specializing in sleep as well? 

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Well, we I started writing about
sleep for the national sleep 

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Foundation, as a columnist, and 
then I was doing a lot of 

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research on sleep and then I had
kids and Julie and I started 

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working with young families on 
sleep. 

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But the more we got into our 
practice and started working 

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with families of young kids and 
then slightly older kids and 

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then our population grew, the 
more and and also looking at the

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research on sleep and sleep 
deprivation, the more it became 

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clear that Teenagers are the 
ones that are suffering. 

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The most they suffer far worse, 
sleep, deprivation than any 

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other population on the planet 
and anyone ever in human 

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history. 
So, when we started to gather 

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that data and just see how sleep
declines, so sharply when kids 

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hit really Middle School is when
it really picks up and becomes 

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pretty. 
And then it becomes most acute 

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in high school and it's 
happening all over the globe. 

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And, you know, we just felt 
like, oh my God. 

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And we have to write this book. 
We, you know, babies sleep is 

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easy. 
Yeah, you need yours that really

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need the help. 
Why do you think it is? 

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That there are such a sharp 
decline? 

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I remember anecdotally 
experiencing that where I got to

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middle school and it wasn't that
it was like cool to not be 

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sleeping but I was like, there 
are better uses of my time. 

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I can text my friends. 
I can be on FaceTime. 

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Like it almost felt like it was 
like a secondary thing that I 

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had to do and the priority was 
schoolwork, it was connecting 

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with other people and it That 
was definitely around like 

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middle school, high school that 
that came up and even into 

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college, it's still something 
where it's like, well I have an 

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assignment, do I have something 
that I have to have ready at 

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8:00 a.m. the next morning when 
I show up to class. 

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So why do you guys think that is
that teenagers do experience 

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that decline universally So, we 
describe in the book, what we 

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call a perfect storm, and you've
mentioned quite a few of the 

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factors just then. 
So, one of the first one is 

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biological starting in 
adolescents, teenagers have a 

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natural shift in their body 
clock, meaning, their melatonin 

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and other sleepiness, hormones 
released later in the evening. 

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Just not tired yet, he's not 
tired yet. 

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But, of course, because the body
is not ready to go to sleep 

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until a little bit later by 
needs to sleep a little bit 

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later. 
So, so we have this natural. 

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Shift. 
And then we have increased 

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homework, ballooning homework 
for some students, increased 

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activities, you know, some, some
kids pile on activities just to 

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show up well on their college, 
you know, applications, then you

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add. 
So this is pushing bedtime later

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and later, all these activities,
all this homework, this natural 

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shift in the biological clock, 
then you add technology to that.

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Mix bedtime is getting later and
later, and later, and later. 

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And then on the other side, Side
of the night, High School's, 

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most high schools in our 
country, start too early. 

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So the seat gets squeezed from 
both ends making. 

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It just mathematically 
impossible to get even close to 

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the even the, you know, just the
the sort of Baseline amount of 

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sleep that that teenagers can 
get by with. 

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We would love to see teenagers 
sleep between 9 and 10 hours a 

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night. 
I know that sound like pie in 

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the sky. 
But so there's this perfect 

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storm of factors that are really
From rising teen sleep. 

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And it's not, you know, some of 
these are societal factors like,

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you know, school start times and
too much, homework, and 

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ridiculous. 
Expectations from college 

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admissions. 
Those are things that we want 

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Society to change, but we also 
because because it's what we do,

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we also can help people a lot 
with making change in the home, 

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you know, right away. 
Before we dive into that, I have

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a random question about baby 
toddler sleep. 

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Whenever I've taken, Intro to 
psychology the Sleep unit, and 

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the attachment Styles unit are 
pretty close, because they're 

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jamming so many things together.
And there's like this anecdotal 

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story that I've heard twice now 
where when you're doing sleep 

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training and the baby just cries
and cries and cries. 

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The cortisol levels in the 
parents decrease, when the baby 

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stops crying after a couple of 
nights of doing sleep training 

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but it doesn't decrease in the 
baby. 

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So the baby just learns to not 
express like cry and be like 

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please come get me out of the 
crib, whatever because it knows.

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No one's going to come and get 
it out of the crib, and then it 

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just gets linked attachment 
Styles and it's like there's not

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a response, there's not a parent
that's like responding to that 

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concern is that like accurate to
say that sleep training in that 

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way is not effective and it 
leads to attachment style shifts

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later on. 
Or is that just like total 

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random Psychology 101 stuff? 
That's getting your absolutely 

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getting to the heart of our 
first book that Happy Sleeper. 

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Okay, you I mean we could do a 
whole podcast episode on baby. 

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If an attachment, but I think 
what you're describing in terms 

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of cortisol levels is more of a 
theoretical based on abuse and 

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neglect. 
And what happens if babies are 

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chronically not responded to 
versus just not wanting to go to

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sleep. 
Purse is not wanting to go to 

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sleep. 
No wanting to say good night not

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you know, preferring to sleep 
with the parent or preferring to

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stay you know and having the 
frustration of not having what 

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they want in the moment. 
Yeah. 

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But why? 
We help parents with is very 

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repetitive and almost hypnotic 
response. 

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So we never have parents do not 
respond to the VA but we have 

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them respond in a really 
predictable way. 

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So that the baby goes, oh, okay,
I get it. 

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This is you doing yeah, okay, so
interesting random question. 

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So interesting. 
Yeah, we have the parent 

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respondents such a predictable 
way that the baby is not happy 

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for sure. 
Yeah, there they protest. 

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But what they never feel is 
wondering where you are now. 

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I'm now, I'm getting worried now
I'm getting fearful. 

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So we keep them far away from 
the, the worrisome emotions. 

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And just after a while, they 
know you're there because you 

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respond in this very pretty 
frequent way. 

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It's almost like they get mad 
because they know you're there. 

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Yeah. 
But it's different from the kind

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of what you're talking about in 
true. 

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What was called, like cry. 
It out Reactions where people 

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just, you know, where their 
parents are told to just shut 

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the door and not go in. 
And yeah, we wrote the book 

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because one of the main reasons 
we wrote the book was we really 

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wanted parents to know that 
there was a way to get the child

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sleeping independently. 
That did not involve anything 

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even close to that. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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So we touched a little bit on 
sleep deprivation and how that's

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not a great thing to happen and 
there are consequences for that 

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14s. 
What happens when we don't get 

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enough sleep, whether it's just 
like chronically in high school.

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You're getting 1 to 2 hours, 
less forces on the other end to 

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the extreme when you're pulling 
all-nighters and cramming for 

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exams and really disrupting your
sleep schedule. 

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Yeah, so while the average 
amount of sleep that a high 

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schooler needs is a, ideally 
would be 9 to 10, but we 

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described we say, eight is 
adequate. 

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And that's because under eight 
hours a night, you start to see 

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correlation with a lot of 
negative effects. 

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So the risk of depression goes 
up, anxiety, stress. 

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Hormones are the, the body goes 
into a stress response when 

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you're low on. 
And but the average high 

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schooler gets about six hours a 
night. 

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So, we're talking about two to 
three hours, chronically of 

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sleep deprivation throughout the
course of the week piling up to,

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you know, 12 hours by the end of
the week and that level of sleep

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loss. 
What I mean? 

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There's so many things that it 
does one is that while you're 

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awake your brain releases. 
A lot of byproducts of activity.

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So we that's like waste or 
toxic, you know, toxic buildup 

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in your brain and then when you 
fall asleep, This kind of 

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cleaning mechanism gets turned 
on and it starts to wash that 

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waste away throughout the time 
that you're asleep. 

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So when you don't sleep enough, 
essentially you've got waste 

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buildup in your brain that is 
not properly, you know, cleansed

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out and that kind of makes sense
right. 

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When you think about how you 
feel when you are sleep 

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deprived, yes, like fog and 
you're sick so sick, right? 

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And that that really for me 
that's kind of like an aha 

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moment of who. 
Wait. 

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That's how it feels to be sleep 
deprived. 

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So, imagine that in a chronic 
way over the course of the week.

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So the risk of, you know, kids 
who sleep 6 hours a night are 

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twice as likely to have symptoms
of depression. 

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It really changes the lens that 
you see the world through. 

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So you're more likely to have a 
negative assumption about, you 

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know, somebody does something 
you're more likely to interpret 

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it in a negative way, you're 
more likely to feel hopeless 

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about the future and just not 
feeling like the creative. 

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Juice of, I can solve this 
problem. 

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00:11:59,100 --> 00:12:03,600
I can do this. 
So the ties to mental health are

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just there so many. 
I really, and I really feel 

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00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:11,100
strongly that if we could get 
teens more sleep, it would go a 

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long way towards solving the 
Mental Health crisis. 

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That we hear so much about right
now as sleep. 

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Also helps with processing 
emotions through dreams when we 

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dream our brains, consolidate 
positive memory, And sort of 

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dampened down, more negative 
memories. 

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And when teenagers have to wake 
up, you know, hours before their

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bodies want to wake up the 
Sleepy. 

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Most miss out on is dream sleep.
So, they're missing out on this 

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really important, emotional 
processing, filtering things out

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organizing. 
There's so much that happens 

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during sleep how memories are 
formed and how memories are 

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stored. 
So we forget things more easily 

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when we got, it makes me think 
of the like, in inside out where

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they're cataloging, all the 
memories, some are going to 

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long-term some going to like 
core memories when you're 

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00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,900
sleeping. 
That's yeah, that's exactly it. 

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00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:09,900
Yeah, kind of love that. 
I think that's so interesting 

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00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:12,400
and anecdotally from my own 
experience. 

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00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,900
There are so many things that 
you're mentioning that were 

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00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:16,500
true. 
When I was in residential 

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treatment, one of their biggest 
priorities. 

256
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,600
The beginning was to get my 
sleep back on track because I 

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was super and I was a major 
insomniac. 

258
00:13:25,300 --> 00:13:27,200
I would like just sit in bed and
read all night. 

259
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,100
Couldn't fall asleep and then I 
would just nap all day because I

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didn't want to engage. 
I was tired. 

261
00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:36,900
I was lethargic from depression 
and I was isolated. 

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And so there was like this, like
double issue of, like, not being

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able to fall asleep and then 
sleeping way too much during the

264
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day. 
And as soon as I was able to get

265
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:48,100
like a consistent night routine 
down, where I could go to bed at

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a reasonable time and then get 
up in the morning and have 

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somewhere to go and have that 
sense of purpose and go to 

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00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,400
therapy during the day, it was 
like night and day and it was 

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00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,200
really quickly. 
That I saw a decrease in how how

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00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,200
intense my suicidal thoughts 
were how frequent they were. 

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Whether I was waking up feeling 
depressed, or if I just maybe 

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felt a depressive moment 
throughout the day and so that 

273
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,200
is something that now I'm always
paying attention to. 

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00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,700
And it's funny like, I noticed 
like if we have an early 

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00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:15,900
wake-up, when my family and I 
are traveling, like, there's 

276
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:17,700
been times at the airport and 
I'm like, crying. 

277
00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:19,700
I'm like, I just want to go to 
sleep. 

278
00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:22,100
Like I'm so emotionally 
vulnerable because it's 

279
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:24,600
something. 
I'm so sensitive to and work so 

280
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,500
hard to prioritize. 
But as a teen, as a college, And

281
00:14:27,500 --> 00:14:30,600
it can be so hard to do that. 
Based on those societal 

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00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,100
pressures, like, you guys 
mentioned, I would love to dive 

283
00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:36,500
into what your tips are that 
things that people can change, 

284
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:38,800
things. 
People can prioritize and shift 

285
00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:41,400
to get better sleep. 
I know there's the basic things 

286
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,800
that you always are, like, less 
electronics. 

287
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,600
Don't be in bed, minimal naps. 
But I'd love to hear what you 

288
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,900
guys recommend and the research 
of why those things work. 

289
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,600
Well there's there's a lot to 
say one of the places to start 

290
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,300
is to try to make and I think 
you experienced this in your, in

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00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:04,500
your treatment is what we know 
about the internal clock and our

292
00:15:04,500 --> 00:15:08,000
circadian rhythms is that our 
bodies love regularity. 

293
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:12,000
It's not, it's not doesn't seem 
to cooler. 

294
00:15:12,300 --> 00:15:15,300
Seems kind of boring to be a 
super regular person but our 

295
00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:19,400
bodies really love it. 
So even as a college student, if

296
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,800
there's any way you can organize
your class, Is so that you get 

297
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,500
up at the same time, each day 
and from that, get from that 

298
00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:32,100
wake up time, you figure out 
your bedtime so I don't know. 

299
00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:35,900
If you say, you have to get up 
it at 8:00, you know, we'd love 

300
00:15:35,900 --> 00:15:39,400
for you to get in bed. 
You know, maybe around 10:30 

301
00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,400
10:45 and fall asleep. 
Close to 11. 

302
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,100
That would be amazing. 
And then what happens to help 

303
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:49,900
that to help you fall asleep 
more easily at 11 in that 

304
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:51,700
scenario would be to get up 
every morning. 

305
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,800
Earning at a even on the weekend
as close as you could. 

306
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,400
You have a sword. 
I was going to ask, like, your 

307
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,400
thoughts on teenagers, that will
just like sleep till 3:00 p.m. 

308
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:00,700
on the weekend and it feels like
it. 

309
00:16:00,700 --> 00:16:03,100
Like catches up to you that 
sleep deprivation. 

310
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:05,800
Yeah, it feels a little good in 
that moment. 

311
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,500
But what happens is you you need
to be awake. 

312
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:10,500
A certain amount of time in 
order to fall asleep. 

313
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:12,600
That's why you couldn't fall 
asleep. 

314
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,700
Before when you were sleeping 
during the day, you are really 

315
00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:18,600
sabotaging your ability to sleep
at night because, you know, it 

316
00:16:18,608 --> 00:16:21,400
was just sort of cycle where you
slept during the day. 

317
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,600
So, In order to fall asleep in 
our little scenario at around, 

318
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:30,100
11:00 getting up at eight, helps
your body be awake, long enough.

319
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:33,900
See when we're awake pressure 
builds and you have to build up 

320
00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:36,500
to a certain level of pressure 
to fall asleep. 

321
00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:41,100
So when you combine that with a 
regular bedtime and then also, 

322
00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:44,900
we combine that with what we 
call a wind down and a bedtime 

323
00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:46,500
routine. 
I know that sounds like 

324
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:50,000
something you do with babies but
we think that all people could 

325
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,100
really use them. 
It's Really one of our favorite 

326
00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:55,800
sleeps sleep. 
Scientist says, you know, your 

327
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,200
you shouldn't go to bed, like 
your Landing a plane. 

328
00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:01,900
Yeah. 
Or no, you should go to bed like

329
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:05,300
you landed play again. 
No plane crashes. 

330
00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:17,800
You would have crashed into a 
stress-free Zone, with whatever 

331
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,800
that means. 
No intense content. 

332
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,500
No intense conversations. 
Sending signals to your body, 

333
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,800
making sure your your home is 
getting cool. 

334
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,200
And then moving into a bedtime 
routine that ideally doesn't 

335
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,500
include you know, phones or 
close held Electronics. 

336
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:36,600
You could, you can watch a TV 
show from a distance or read a 

337
00:17:36,608 --> 00:17:40,900
book or we like to replace 
technology with, with fun 

338
00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:43,900
pleasurable things, so that 
you're, you're giving yourself a

339
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:46,500
nice routine. 
Maybe you take a warm shower, 

340
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:50,800
which helps, you know, helps you
fall asleep but having a routine

341
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,800
that you really look Forward to 
so that you have this little 

342
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,300
sort of Prelude to sleep and 
then when you get into bed, it's

343
00:17:57,300 --> 00:18:00,200
much easier to fall asleep. 
If you do all those things, 

344
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:03,200
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If people are struggling with 

372
00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:12,700
insomnia, what is your advice 
there? 

373
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:16,000
Do you just like kind of not sit
it out but like, lay it out, 

374
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,300
count sheep. 
Are you supposed to get out of 

375
00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:20,900
bed? 
Then try to like, do the whole 

376
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:23,200
routine again? 
And do you just write off the 

377
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,500
night? 
Gotta wait until morning. 

378
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:29,100
Like, what's your advice there? 
Yeah, it really depends on where

379
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:32,200
the insomnia is coming from, and
how long, how many nights and 

380
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,800
what's going on during the day, 
we really try to get people to 

381
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,700
think about the daytime and how 
it affects your nighttime. 

382
00:19:38,700 --> 00:19:41,500
Because, like, Julia was 
alluding to people think that 

383
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:43,500
sleep starts when you get into 
bed. 

384
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:46,400
And, and when you get out of 
bed, and that's really not true 

385
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:51,100
sleep, the chemicals for sleeper
being sort of the stage is being

386
00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:52,200
set all day. 
Day long. 

387
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,100
So if someone has insomnia and 
the most common sleep issue for 

388
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:58,900
teenagers definitely is 
difficulty falling asleep. 

389
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,600
That's absolutely. 
The most common thing that 

390
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,100
teenagers struggle with, and 
that's partly because what Julie

391
00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:06,500
said about the shifted 
biological clock. 

392
00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:11,100
So the main thing that we get 
teens to do is wake up at the 

393
00:20:11,108 --> 00:20:13,900
same time on the weekends, don't
sleep in more than one hour 

394
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:17,300
that's ideal. 
So if you are so sleep-deprived 

395
00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:20,200
that you have to sleep in two 
hours, do that for one day 

396
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,700
during the weekend but not So 
don't pay you know, Saturday, 

397
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:26,200
you could sleep two hours past 
your regular wake up time and 

398
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,300
then Sunday just one hour and 
then go outside. 

399
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:33,000
Even the through the clouds on a
cloudy day. 

400
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,500
The sun is a thousand times more
powerful than your indoor lights

401
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:43,500
and it has we could go in to 
detail on why but sunlight 

402
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:45,400
presses, go on the internal 
clock. 

403
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,200
So it's a timing q that tells 
your brain. 

404
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,300
Okay, the day has started now 
get ready for the The night to 

405
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:54,000
come. 
So it's amazing. 

406
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,800
What your brain is telling you 
in the morning has to do with 

407
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,900
your nighttime sleep. 
So get 5 to 10 minutes of son, 

408
00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:03,600
even if it's cloudy it's really 
intense done. 

409
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:07,900
Hmm and I think those two pieces
of advice for teenagers are 

410
00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:11,600
sometimes and the cut off of 
caffeine like those other 

411
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,800
question like, what time to 
okay? 

412
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,900
Person to? 
It, just depends the half-life 

413
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:19,000
of caffeine is way longer than 
most people think. 

414
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,300
So, if you're really having 
trouble falling asleep, The 

415
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,700
waking up within an hour of your
morning, wake-up time 5, to 10 

416
00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:31,000
minutes of sun and to p.m. 
cutoff for for caffeine along 

417
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,100
with that, wind down, that Julia
was recommending, is is going to

418
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,300
do a lot. 
And then if you're lying there, 

419
00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:38,400
I think what you're wondering 
about is like, if you're lying 

420
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,200
there, what do you do? 
Do you get up, do you? 

421
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,700
And I just think, you know 
sometimes I think if I can't 

422
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:48,000
sleep, I think to myself, my 
body will take care of this 

423
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,600
later. 
Like I don't have to worry, I 

424
00:21:49,608 --> 00:21:52,600
try not to worry about it 
because that's Definitely Ike. 

425
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,000
I don't look at my phone and I 
don't have a clock that I can 

426
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,800
see the numbers on because I 
don't want to track it. 

427
00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:01,400
I don't want to know, it wasn't 
to know what time it is. 

428
00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:04,900
Just living in, you know, 
ignorance is bliss. 

429
00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:07,100
Like you don't know what time it
is, don't stress. 

430
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:11,100
Your body is so smart at making 
up for lost sleep. 

431
00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:13,900
Just think about it, like oh my 
God, tomorrow night, I'm going 

432
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:16,900
to sleep extra well because your
body is really smart. 

433
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:19,800
I mean, I think you know this 
but one of the hardest things 

434
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,200
about insomnia is are the 
negative W. 

435
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,100
Yeah and then you like stress 
yourself out more about not 

436
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:27,000
getting enough sleep which makes
it harder to fall. 

437
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,900
It's like a cycle. 
Yeah, it's a cycle. 

438
00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:32,200
So you know, some people 
everybody has their way some 

439
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,400
people do better by getting up 
and, you know, sitting in 

440
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,700
another room and reading until 
they feel sleepy. 

441
00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:40,600
Making sure you're not, you 
know, again on a closed held 

442
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,500
device or doing anything 
stressful. 

443
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,500
Another thing we write about in 
the book is using what we call 

444
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:52,000
passive distraction so lying in 
bed and maybe listening to a Not

445
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,300
super interesting podcast or 
something like that, something 

446
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,300
that's it has to be dug hurting 
enough to take your mind off 

447
00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:00,700
your sort of I like listening to
the office. 

448
00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:02,700
That's what I'll do. 
I call it like my personal 

449
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:05,900
podcast because I've seen it 
like six times so it's like, 

450
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,900
there's no like what's happening
next. 

451
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:10,500
I just in listening to like 
Michael Scott making terrible 

452
00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:13,800
jokes and like good night and 
it's just interesting to listen 

453
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,700
to. 
Yeah, I like put the phone down 

454
00:23:16,900 --> 00:23:20,000
laying there, whatever pot in 
waiting to, go to sleep, 

455
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,200
listening to the bad jokes. 
And it Looks right. 

456
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,600
It does it really really does 
Julie, you have? 

457
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,200
What's your passive distraction?
Julie? 

458
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,300
Is it, is it PBS? 
Well, I feel bad saying this 

459
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:32,700
because it's a podcast that I 
really do love but like, you 

460
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:35,000
know, I like Sadie. 
I've listened to a lot of the 

461
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,200
episodes. 
Yeah, a lot. 

462
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,300
So it's this podcast called how 
I built this. 

463
00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:43,400
So, I choose have already heard 
and their long and I love them 

464
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,300
so I lived it and I fall asleep.
So fast. 

465
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:50,000
Yeah. 
When I use a passive distraction

466
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,500
like that. 
I mean, it's really something. 

467
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,100
Times overwhelming to try to 
just use pure meditation, which 

468
00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:59,400
has the same goal, the same goal
to push your perceptive thoughts

469
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:03,000
out of your mind. 
So using passive distraction, if

470
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,600
you're struggling is really, 
really helpful. 

471
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,600
Yes, some people. 
This is, yeah, that's there's a 

472
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,200
ton of podcast. 
Also, the one that I like for 

473
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,900
like bedtime stories that I'd 
never would like label myself. 

474
00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:16,500
As I love a good bedtime story, 
like when I remember when I was 

475
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:18,900
younger and being read to, I was
like I just want to read it 

476
00:24:18,908 --> 00:24:21,500
myself because I can't get 
through the material faster. 

477
00:24:21,700 --> 00:24:24,800
I could get bored and even now 
with audiobooks I'm like trying 

478
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,200
to get back into it. 
But it's like I just want to 

479
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,800
read it because it's faster than
listening to it but there's a 

480
00:24:29,808 --> 00:24:33,400
podcast called Welcome to Night 
Vale and it's just like odd 

481
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,700
utopian town and it's literally 
they do these hour-long episodes

482
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:41,800
about absolutely nothing and you
just like talk about the news of

483
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,400
the town and sometimes there's 
like, weird aliens but it is a 

484
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,700
bedtime story with like such 
minimal plot points that you are

485
00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:53,700
bored, but it puts you to sleep.
And the, the narrator's voice is

486
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:58,100
like very like my monotonous, 
and so you're not like peaked 

487
00:24:58,100 --> 00:24:59,900
with interest, and that's 
another good one. 

488
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:02,200
If you're looking, is that how 
grown-ups is that one? 

489
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,500
That's me. 
Yeah, yeah. 

490
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:05,700
I think so. 
Definitely is like an adult 

491
00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:07,600
Target on. 
Yes, it sounds a little creepy 

492
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:08,700
for little kids. 
Oh perfect. 

493
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:10,600
Yeah, do not put this on for 
your children. 

494
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:16,900
What is that 10 year? 
Old would be, definitely for 

495
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:18,500
adults. 
I want to check that out. 

496
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:21,500
Yeah, but it's I would never 
listen to it during the day. 

497
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:23,500
Ever like I would not feel like 
I'm going on. 

498
00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:25,700
My walk time to listen to 
Welcome to Night Vale, but I'm 

499
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:28,600
like, if I cannot fall asleep 
and nothing is working. 

500
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,200
I'll put that on for 20 minutes 
and it's like, there we go. 

501
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,000
Good to go, but then story, go 
to sleep. 

502
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,800
But yeah, for the waking up it 
for teens that are struggling to

503
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,700
not just push news on the 
weekend when there isn't that 

504
00:25:40,700 --> 00:25:43,500
reason to get up. 
What are your guys is tips? 

505
00:25:43,700 --> 00:25:46,400
Is it like, mind over matter? 
You just force yourself to get 

506
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,000
out of bed. 
What do you recommend if that is

507
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,200
difficult to do? 
We had, we were just, we did a 

508
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,500
talk at Yale like a month ago 
and some of the kids had really 

509
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,600
like one of one of them said 
that she puts her phone across 

510
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,300
her across the room, with the 
alarm on. 

511
00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:07,200
So that and she has a roommate 
and that. 

512
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:17,600
And so she feels so bad that And
so you can trick yourself that 

513
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,200
way, I think for younger teens, 
you know, I have a young teen 

514
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,700
and I actually wake him up 
because I feel like I saw I 

515
00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:26,800
sneaked in, and I open the 
blind. 

516
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,400
So if you can get sunlight on 
your team. 

517
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:32,600
Yeah. 
Parent and nicotine will hate it

518
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,100
from. 
First of all, I hate when they 

519
00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:37,900
opened the blinds. 
I was like, please, stop Sadie, 

520
00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:40,400
get vertical. 
And then, ya know I'm stay 

521
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,900
gorizontal, really? 
It's yeah, we had a lot of 

522
00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:48,300
times, I was, Talking to a some 
parents about this that their 

523
00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:51,200
their teen was chronically late 
for school and stressing out the

524
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,700
whole family and the sister 
relied on him to drive her to 

525
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:57,200
school too. 
So, you know, and no one could 

526
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,000
get him out of bed in the 
morning and it's, you know, so 

527
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,900
you can, you can do things like,
pull the blinds, you know, if 

528
00:27:02,900 --> 00:27:07,700
you have don'ts news, because 
news is really not good quality 

529
00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:09,500
sleep, and it can make you 
groggy or so. 

530
00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:11,100
Yeah. 
Putting the alarm across. 

531
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:13,800
The room is probably a better 
idea or just enlisting the help 

532
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,500
of your, your family or Like I 
let the dog in sometimes to jump

533
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:19,800
on my Smart. 
Yeah, yeah, that's good. 

534
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,800
But it usually has to do with 
not being able to fall asleep. 

535
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,400
Right? 
I mean, it's and and also talk 

536
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,400
to your school. 
You have to tell your school 

537
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,800
board that it's not acceptable 
to have school started. 7:45? 

538
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:32,200
Yes. 
The other piece. 

539
00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:35,900
Yeah, I can't speak from 
experience, I haven't tried this

540
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,400
before but I did have a tic toc 
come up on my for you page where

541
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,500
it was a girl and she was 
creating content and she was 

542
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:43,500
like people ask as a deaf 
person. 

543
00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:46,500
How I wake up in the morning 
because you can't A normal alarm

544
00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:49,700
and they make these alarms that 
they put on the bed and it 

545
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:52,700
vibrates the bed. 
So if you're really struggling 

546
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:55,100
and you need your bed to be 
shaking, like an earthquake, 

547
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:58,400
this could be an option for you 
like really, really vile like 

548
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,900
really intense like style. 
Yeah, yeah. 

549
00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:04,700
So might be your solution if 
you're struggling. 

550
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,300
Yeah. 
Oh my gosh. 

551
00:28:07,300 --> 00:28:09,500
But we did touch briefly on 
naps. 

552
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:11,700
I know it's kind of like mixed 
feeling. 

553
00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:14,700
Some people are like if you keep
it under 30 minutes or an hour, 

554
00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:16,600
it's okay. 
Okay, what are your guys is 

555
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,300
thoughts there? 
Yeah you're on the right track 

556
00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:21,900
there. 
Not only should not be fairly 

557
00:28:21,900 --> 00:28:26,100
short I think it's Heather's 
like between 10 and 30 minutes 

558
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:29,200
it's ideal. 
The other thing you want to make

559
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,700
sure is that it's not too late 
in the day for the same reason 

560
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:34,700
that I was describing earlier. 
If you not too late in the day, 

561
00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:38,200
it's going to push your bedtime 
because that pressure will not 

562
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,200
have time to build up so that 
you can fall asleep. 

563
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,400
So you know it's probably not as
relevant. 

564
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:48,800
And in college, or it might be 
if you have a particularly late 

565
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,200
night. 
But for high school students, 

566
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,700
often there's just it's 
impossible for them to get the 

567
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:54,400
sleep. 
They need. 

568
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,900
So we have this sort of vision 
of a like a nap room for for 

569
00:28:57,900 --> 00:29:00,800
high school students where they 
can go at like 1:00 or 2:00. 

570
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,800
For some people is like the math
class. 

571
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,000
Right. 
Exactly, exactly. 

572
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:10,200
I used to fall asleep in 
biology, but, but, yeah, I mean,

573
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,400
we, these things were talking 
about difficulty waking up in 

574
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,400
the morning and the urge, you 
know, Sleepiness, during the 

575
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,900
day, these are signs of sleep 
deprived kids. 

576
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:24,300
You know, this is, you know, 
this is what we're hoping to to 

577
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,000
work against. 
Is that struggle at being? 

578
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,600
Let you know, ideally, we sleep 
and wake up naturally, you know,

579
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,400
that's an Ideal World or at 
least it's not so hard to wake 

580
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,800
up and ideally, we don't feel so
sleepy during the day. 

581
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,300
But, you know, before we get all
the societal change to happen, 

582
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:48,200
you know, taking a nap is Be 
helpful to some people as long 

583
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,000
as it's not too long or too 
late. 

584
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,600
Yeah, if you guys could give 
like a perfect day, that's 

585
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,400
optimizing for Sleep. 
Hygiene. 

586
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,700
Like what time are you 
exercising? 

587
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:02,100
What time is your last meal? 
One is your cup of coffee, what?

588
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:04,000
Time are you shutting off 
Electronics? 

589
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,700
How would you set up your 
schedule? 

590
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,000
I guess if I can think about, 
you know, a younger high 

591
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,200
schooler who would need to wake 
up at really, it's all kind of 

592
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,100
based on when they have to get 
up for school. 

593
00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:19,700
So let's just suppose that they 
have to wake up at seven. 

594
00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:22,000
That's pretty. 
That's, that's a pretty good. 

595
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:25,000
You know, healthy, reasonable 
time to wake up most would 

596
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,200
prefer to wake up around 8 or 9,
but until we get high schools to

597
00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:32,900
start it, you know, 10:00 a.m. 
I should be friends that would 

598
00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:36,400
do like zero period and they 
were like starting at 7:00. 

599
00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:38,800
Yes. 
Like I could never. 

600
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,200
Well that's the thing that's in 
such an extreme and it 

601
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,200
definitely happens all over the 
country. 

602
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,700
So but let's say in a kind of 
healthy world where they wake up

603
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:52,600
at seven and they you know get 
some sun or some cloudy son, you

604
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,100
know, and go to school and 
actually see the sun come up and

605
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,000
sorry, don't see the sun come up
but like experience on before 

606
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,100
they get into class because a 
lot of kids don't. 

607
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:03,800
So getting some sunlight before 
going into class is really 

608
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,200
important. 
And so then Exercises kind of. 

609
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:13,300
So I would say cut off caffeine 
by to me and hopefully, you 

610
00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:15,000
know, high schoolers aren't 
really drinking a lot of 

611
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,200
caffeine, but I definitely see a
lot, you know, having like Coke 

612
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,800
and things that do really impact
your sleep. 

613
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,300
So cutting that off by 2 and 
then exercise, it's almost 

614
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:28,400
impossible to dictate because 
Sports practice and Dan you 

615
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,000
know, dance and things like that
are going to dictate to at least

616
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,600
sometimes it's yeah, 9:00 10:00 
p.m., it's insane. 

617
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:37,100
Yeah, so again if we're talking 
ideal Old. 

618
00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:40,200
All that would probably wrap by 
7, you know. 

619
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,400
So you could eat dinner and then
have wind down time. 

620
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,800
And then Electronics, I think 
it's reasonable. 

621
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,700
If you're waking up seven and 
your bedtime is, let's say ten 

622
00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:50,100
thirty. 
That's when you turn off the 

623
00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:53,700
lights. 
They want to have your wine down

624
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:56,500
time, meaning your device's, 
kind of all your personal 

625
00:31:56,500 --> 00:32:00,900
devices, go off by, let's say 
9:30, you just put your phone 

626
00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:03,800
plug it in in the kitchen. 
If you're really trying to 

627
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,700
protect your sleep, which is 
definitely a mean, it's so worth

628
00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:07,900
it. 
With it, if you just put that in

629
00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:11,300
practice, in in place and say 
good night to your friends, and 

630
00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:14,500
just shut down your electronics 
at 9:30, plug it into the 

631
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:17,200
kitchen. 
And then go watch a movie on the

632
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,200
couch, in the living room, or go
write in your journal or do 

633
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,800
something. 
You know, and then turn off your

634
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:27,000
light at let's say 10:30. 
Hmm, I love that. 

635
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,900
I'll, I think it's very 
reasonable, you definitely have 

636
00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:32,800
to be intentional and make the 
commitment to prioritize, your 

637
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,800
sleep. 
But if it really is important to

638
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,200
you and I think especially once 
you see What? 

639
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,200
It's like to feel rested and to 
feel like you have more energy, 

640
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,400
it's something that you're 
motivated to do and it does feel

641
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,300
achievable, today's episode is 
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642
00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:50,000
pods cream, words are 
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643
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,700
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644
00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:56,400
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What I love about nap pods? 

645
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,500
As you can stock up on your 
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646
00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:00,700
they're plant-based, you don't 
have to refrigerate them as soon

647
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:02,400
as you buy them. 
So, I'll get like three or four 

648
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,800
containers. 
I will keep them in my dorm, but

649
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,100
not in the fridge because the 
mini fridge space This is 

650
00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:11,300
precious so I will put whichever
container I'm currently using in

651
00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:13,100
the fridge. 
The rest was put in storage. 

652
00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:15,800
My favorite flavors are sweet 
cream and French vanilla. 

653
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,800
They are delicious and they 
taste like they have sugar in 

654
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:19,900
them which we love. 
Make sure to get sweetened 

655
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:22,000
unless you like unsweetened 
creamers, in which case they 

656
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,300
have those as well. 
And they also just came out with

657
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:26,900
a new oat milk, so I will add 
sweet and creamer to that 

658
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,200
blenda, is that the right word 
with my little, like, milk 

659
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,300
frother thingy that I got on 
Amazon and it tastes just like a

660
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:35,900
Starbucks, we cream cold phone. 
So, highly recommend trying 

661
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Milk as well as their creamers. 

662
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,900
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663
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664
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:48,300
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665
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:50,500
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I promise you will enjoy and 

666
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:53,200
I'll just add a little more 
yumminess to your morning 

667
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,100
routine. 
Have you guys heard of aura? 

668
00:33:55,100 --> 00:33:57,800
Rings. 
Hmm, what are your thoughts? 

669
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,000
There? 
I have one and I have mixed 

670
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,200
feelings because every single 
night, I get terrible sleep 

671
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,400
scores because I get like one 
minute of deep sleep like this 

672
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,400
is Open multiple times, and I 
don't know if I should like 

673
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,699
email and be like, am I really 
sleeping this badly? 

674
00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:16,000
It should I get a sleep study or
it's, you're bringing a really, 

675
00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:19,300
really good point, but I don't, 
I don't know enough about the 

676
00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:22,500
technology or how the report 
goes, like what it looks like to

677
00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:24,400
you. 
Do you see how much light sleep 

678
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,400
and deep sleep and REM sleep? 
You get. 

679
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,100
Yeah, so it'll hours. 
Yeah, I will say that, I feel 

680
00:34:30,100 --> 00:34:34,000
like it's accurate and that I, 
when I wake up, feeling more 

681
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,600
rested, I do feel like the data 
reflects that. 

682
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,400
But I'm generally like the data 
shows that I'm chronically not 

683
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,199
sleeping well, which I think 
might be accurate. 

684
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:44,900
I just didn't have the data 
beforehand, but like last night,

685
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:48,300
my total duration is bad. 
I'm exposing myself was seven 

686
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:52,000
hours, 17 minutes, but I was 
only asleep for five hours and 

687
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,600
38 minutes. 
And I was awake for an hour and 

688
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,400
a half in rem, for an hour and a
half light sleep for almost four

689
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,000
hours in deep sleep for a week, 
27 minutes. 

690
00:35:01,500 --> 00:35:05,000
And then it'll like rate your 
percentages, mmm. 

691
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,600
And then, it also So shows 
you're like little map thing. 

692
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,800
Yeah, but I just thought how 
does that relate to other nights

693
00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:13,400
that you is that an average 
night? 

694
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,500
Or is that a more pretty 
standard? 

695
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:18,300
It's interesting because I feel 
like the percentages are all the

696
00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:21,500
same. 
Even if I'm sleeping for like 14

697
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,200
hours, which is insane. 
I'm still getting minimal deep, 

698
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,200
sleep, like this night. 
I slept for 10 hours, and 35 

699
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,500
minutes, I was in bed for 12 and
a half hours, but I only got 

700
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:34,900
twenty seven minutes of deep 
sleep, the whole night. 

701
00:35:35,500 --> 00:35:39,200
So I remember Doctor I will 
follow up in a future podcast 

702
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,400
episode, but if you do like 
having the data and being able 

703
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,500
to see how different shifts 
reflect how you sleep, I 

704
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:47,900
definitely enjoy. 
And if you like to track your 

705
00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:49,800
steps and stuff it's great 
because you don't have to like 

706
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,100
carry your phone with you but 
yeah, I think it's definitely a 

707
00:35:53,107 --> 00:35:55,400
personal thing. 
I don't like to track my sleep 

708
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,200
because like I said kind of 
related to what I was saying 

709
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,000
about if you're awake in the 
middle of the night. 

710
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,300
It's better for me. 
I feel like it's better not to 

711
00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:04,200
have any data or any 
information. 

712
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,600
I don't want to know what time 
it is. 

713
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,500
Yeah, yeah. 
I trust my body and I trust that

714
00:36:08,500 --> 00:36:10,700
it will. 
If I hold the boundaries of my 

715
00:36:10,700 --> 00:36:14,000
wreck, my bedtime and I do all 
my sleep habits and I take care 

716
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,300
of my part, my sleep will do 
what it needs to do. 

717
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,700
Yeah, but I know I mean I think 
it's if if you find that it 

718
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:25,100
doesn't make you anxious and it 
makes you track like, okay, I 

719
00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:26,800
got this amount of deep sleep, 
right? 

720
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,900
Slept this amount and I can tell
because I cut off my caffeine at

721
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:33,300
two o'clock instead of having a 
coke with dinner. 

722
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:35,400
Oh, I can see where it took me 
long, you know, you can. 

723
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,400
Yeah, if it's helpful. 
On that way. 

724
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,900
But I would also say that having
a smaller amount of deep sleep 

725
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:45,700
is, is normal it. 
I mean, you definitely want to 

726
00:36:45,700 --> 00:36:49,100
check in with your doctor, but 
we have more deep sleep at the 

727
00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:52,200
beginning of the night and less 
have noticed that. 

728
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,000
Yeah. 
So you'd usually you have a lot 

729
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,600
of deep like deeper sleep in the
first half of the night and the 

730
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,200
second half of the night is 
mostly Ramen light sleep. 

731
00:37:01,900 --> 00:37:05,800
If people are going to sleep 
later and they're having that 

732
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,800
really short window, Oh, that 
they are asleep. 

733
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,400
Are they still getting deep 
sleep? 

734
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,500
Or it's like they just skip to 
the rampart and miss that 

735
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:17,500
restorative Sleep part, Heather.
I think it's the combination of 

736
00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:19,900
both, isn't it? 
Don't they miss out on some deep

737
00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:22,800
sleep and they also miss out on 
some REM dream sleep. 

738
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,700
And at the other end, is that, 
is that right? 

739
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:28,500
I think mostly the answer is 
that you miss the part. 

740
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:31,800
I think mostly your brain clock 
is telling you what to do, so 

741
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,000
that you might have some deep 
sleep when you first fall 

742
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,600
asleep, but you're going to 
shift into REM and that early 

743
00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:40,000
Morning style of sleep. 
Yeah, quickly. 

744
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,400
So you can see all the 
deprivation all around. 

745
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,900
Yeah, it's yeah, that's 
interesting. 

746
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,300
It might be interesting with the
track or if it doesn't make you 

747
00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:54,200
more anxious to isolate some 
variables and make a few 

748
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,900
changes. 
Yeah, if there's anything that, 

749
00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:59,300
you know that we talked about or
that you see in the book and 

750
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,500
maybe just don't change a whole 
lot of things and just sort of 

751
00:38:02,500 --> 00:38:05,600
see like if I cut off caffeine, 
or if I try to make my bedroom 

752
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,100
or regular, if I guess, Like get
Morning Sun. 

753
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:11,500
Just see if you can like it 
would make me anxious to do it. 

754
00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:13,800
I don't think I would do it. 
But if you're interested and you

755
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,600
want to sort of experiment a 
little and then C is your, you 

756
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,100
know, are the percentages 
changing based on some shifts in

757
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:25,800
your your sleep habits? 
Yeah I think it's the type A and

758
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,200
me but I like wake up and I'm 
like I can't wait to see my 

759
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,400
sleep score. 
How did I do today? 

760
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:33,100
Great. 
Yeah I do look forward to it and

761
00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:37,200
it's also like it's nice because
it's not like you Saying the 

762
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,200
clock does stress me out, 
especially when I'm out of town.

763
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,900
And especially if it's like, I 
have to be up early or like, if 

764
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:46,800
I haven't a test in the morning 
and I'm like, I'm losing 

765
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,200
minutes. 
I'm losing hours. 

766
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,300
It's so late. 
It's too late. 

767
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,000
Where is this? 
You can't check your score. 

768
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,600
It won't give you a score until 
you slept through the night and 

769
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,600
wake up in the morning. 
So it's like, you can't yeah. 

770
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,800
Mentally sometimes I'm like, oh,
I really wish I would have 

771
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,700
started my bedtime routine 
earlier. 

772
00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:05,100
I wish I was asleep by this 
point but it won't really change

773
00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:07,300
anything less. 
You really make an effort to go 

774
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:10,400
sleep. 
So if it's something that sounds

775
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:11,400
like, it wouldn't stress you 
out. 

776
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,900
I agree. 
It does is interesting but also,

777
00:39:14,900 --> 00:39:17,400
I feel like doing an actual 
sleep study would be more 

778
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,800
accurate if you do have 
questions about your sleep. 

779
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,800
Yeah, that's definitely true. 
Yeah, and we have in our book, 

780
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,100
we have a chapter 9 is called 
the sleep challenge and I think 

781
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:28,400
that would be a good place to do
if you want to do a little 

782
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,800
experiment. 
Yeah, about different variables.

783
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,700
Like Julie was saying to modify 
them that there's a Tracker 

784
00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:36,300
there that, you know, it kind of
like brings the whole book 

785
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:38,400
together. 
And it's you know you do like a 

786
00:39:38,408 --> 00:39:41,500
7 or 14 day challenge. 
I will I would do that. 

787
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:44,400
I will report back everyone 
follows social media so you can 

788
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,100
see the updates because I love 
playing around with sleep and 

789
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:50,800
it's definitely like this year. 
That was the biggest thing that 

790
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,000
I coming home for summer. 
I was like I want to get better 

791
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,400
at this because I do notice that
that's the biggest thing that 

792
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,400
impacts how I show up in my 
classes. 

793
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,100
What I have energy to do and how
burnt out I get and how long it 

794
00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:04,100
takes to get to that point. 
And I think that's true for a 

795
00:40:04,107 --> 00:40:06,900
lot of teenagers, like when your
sleep is struggling, Saying, you

796
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:10,300
just have a really short fuse 
and it's understandable because 

797
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:13,300
like, you guys were saying, it's
like 12 hours a week of sleep 

798
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:15,700
deprivation. 
If you're pushing your bedtime 

799
00:40:15,700 --> 00:40:18,000
back later and later, and you're
still getting up early. 

800
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,400
So it really is a universal 
experience. 

801
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,200
In many ways, what year are you?
I just finished my freshman year

802
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,300
of college. 
Okay. 

803
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:29,500
And how did you see your sleeps 
if I can ask you one question, 

804
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,100
how did you see your sleep 
change between high school and 

805
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:36,000
your freshman year? 
So it definitely my high school 

806
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,900
wasn't By early like the most, 
not realistic, but we were in 

807
00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:42,900
covid. 
And so, for the second half of 

808
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:45,700
junior year, we didn't even have
zoom classes. 

809
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:47,000
It was just like you turned in 
an assignment. 

810
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,900
So there wasn't that structure, 
senior year. 

811
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:52,900
We did show up and have zoom 
classes, but it was also like, 

812
00:40:52,900 --> 00:40:55,900
you could have your camera off. 
You didn't have to be up and out

813
00:40:55,900 --> 00:40:59,100
of bed, like the level of 
Engagement wasn't totally there.

814
00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:03,400
So I would say that going into 
college when I had a good 

815
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,200
structure of my classes, like 
you guys talked about with 

816
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,600
having Something in the morning 
that you get up for versus 

817
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,700
having a class at, like 3:00 
p.m. and there's no motivation 

818
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:14,100
before then to do anything. 
If I had that structure in 

819
00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:17,500
place, I felt great about it 
because I could push my bedtime 

820
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:19,500
back earlier. 
It wasn't like I had after 

821
00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:22,500
school activities that I was 
bouncing, but getting it like 4 

822
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:26,200
p.m. which is really hard enough
in high school. 

823
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,700
So I feel like it did get 
better, but I also noticed 

824
00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:33,300
around finals that it was a lot 
more difficult to stay on top of

825
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:36,100
the sleep schedule. 
Like I had a lot more cramming 

826
00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:40,100
in Should I didn't High School 
just based on the material and 

827
00:41:40,100 --> 00:41:42,800
just volume of work that you're 
being tested on. 

828
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,200
But in general, I think the 
schedule allows you to optimize 

829
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,400
for exercise and eating more 
balanced and walking around 

830
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,600
campus and getting outside. 
I feel like that does allow 

831
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,800
sleep hygiene to be favored but 
final season is rough for sure 

832
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,300
on sleep. 
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. 

833
00:41:59,300 --> 00:42:02,400
I think you in college, you have
more control in high school. 

834
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,000
You I feel like the thing is 
everyone else's is Sizing your 

835
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,800
to like everyone's pulling your 
time. 

836
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,900
Yeah that so much obligation to 
other people and other. 

837
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,500
It's almost like the grown-ups 
are kind of dictating the 

838
00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:15,600
schedules. 
Yeah. 

839
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,200
Yeah. 
In college you have a lot more 

840
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,000
control but you also have a lot 
more. 

841
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:20,700
You have a lot of 
responsibility. 

842
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:24,500
Still, I was really when we, 
when we spoke at a college I was

843
00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:27,400
it made sense to me when the 
students were saying that 

844
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,800
they're the most sleep-deprived 
that they were was in high 

845
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,000
school. 
Yeah. 

846
00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:32,200
At the end of high school. 
Yeah. 

847
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,700
I have seen a lot of tech talks 
about this and I've also It 

848
00:42:36,700 --> 00:42:39,700
myself or you're like, how did I
even managed to do that with 

849
00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:44,000
waking up at 7 a.m. doing eight 
hours of school going to sports,

850
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,800
Practice still doing homework 
studying for a test doing family

851
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,300
dinner. 
Like it just doesn't feel 

852
00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:52,800
humanly possible and I do want 
to say also like for college 

853
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,700
students that do feel like 
you're struggling with your 

854
00:42:54,700 --> 00:42:57,500
sleep, it's very possible 
because there's less structure, 

855
00:42:57,500 --> 00:43:01,700
there's, you have that freedom. 
So it's very easy to get into a 

856
00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:05,000
pattern of not sleeping, pulling
all-nighters going out a ton, 

857
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:07,400
but if you're prioritizing 
Sizing your sleep. 

858
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,400
It's simple to set yourself up 
for Success, like the 

859
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,600
foundation, is there, you have 
the freedom with your time. 

860
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,400
You have the opportunities to do
these habits throughout the day 

861
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,500
that you guys mentioned and it's
realistic to implement. 

862
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,300
I feel like you could help us 
make sleep cool. 

863
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,700
I want I want to try. 
We're gonna we're gonna do our 

864
00:43:26,700 --> 00:43:30,900
best because I love sleeping. 
I anytime I can sleep. 

865
00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:33,100
I love napping. 
I love sleeping in. 

866
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,200
I am definitely a night owl, but
I do love getting into bed at 

867
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,400
night, so it's, I completely 
agree with you. 

868
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,500
It is something teenagers need 
to be doing more of and I wish 

869
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:45,400
it was more of an intentional 
priority, not that they focused 

870
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,300
on yeah, that that sleep 
challenge on Tick Tock I think 

871
00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:51,200
is the way to go and we I like 
wanted you to I can pull up the 

872
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,300
date and I'll be like, guys. 
This is what I tried yesterday. 

873
00:43:53,300 --> 00:43:55,200
Here's what happened. 
So, I'm definitely gonna 

874
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,400
Implement that, especially the 
weakest episode comes out to, to

875
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,500
share all the tips. 
And I think it'll be fun to 

876
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:02,000
follow along with. 
Yeah. 

877
00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:04,000
Yeah. 
And teenagers want to die. 

878
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,900
Think this is the thing. 
We think that teenagers want to 

879
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:10,700
feel good and feel healthy and 
they want to learn about their 

880
00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:14,500
brains, so many of them are 
interested and they really feel 

881
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:18,000
the difference and they wanted 
they want to feel healthy and 

882
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,100
they want to feel happy and 
energetic. 

883
00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:23,000
So So yeah, yeah. 
And I just got this something 

884
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,600
you see the overnight 
difference, it's not really a 

885
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:29,400
pun but you, you notice 
immediately whereas like I feel 

886
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,500
like with if you're trying to 
exercise, you're trying to build

887
00:44:33,500 --> 00:44:37,800
a new habit, it takes a certain 
number of times and routines and

888
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,700
days to see a difference with 
sleep. 

889
00:44:39,700 --> 00:44:42,100
If you get a good night's sleep,
it's night and day. 

890
00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:45,500
You immediately feel better, you
have more energy, so it's very 

891
00:44:45,500 --> 00:44:49,100
reinforcing. 
Mmm, it's really true and you're

892
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:51,900
more efficient. 
You can get your work done, you 

893
00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:54,100
can study, you can remember 
better. 

894
00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:58,900
So there's so many things that 
make, you know, all that 

895
00:44:58,900 --> 00:45:01,700
procrastinating and taking 
really long time to do things, 

896
00:45:01,700 --> 00:45:05,700
kind of really improves when you
sleep, well, you feel like your 

897
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:09,700
skin looks better. 
You you you relationships 

898
00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:13,100
improve because like you said, 
you're not a short-tempered and 

899
00:45:13,100 --> 00:45:16,300
your you see people in a more 
positive way and you want to be 

900
00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:19,200
around people. 
So all the things that teenagers

901
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,300
are staying up late, trying 
Trying to achieve. 

902
00:45:21,300 --> 00:45:24,200
They can actually achieve better
and more efficiently. 

903
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,200
Yeah. 
If they sleep well, and not only

904
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,100
teenagers, but young, you're 
still in our Target Zone because

905
00:45:29,100 --> 00:45:32,700
you're, you're a young. 
Yeah, you're a young adult 

906
00:45:32,700 --> 00:45:35,400
adolescents goes all the way to 
about 25. 

907
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,400
So yeah. 
What are your guys? 

908
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,700
Thoughts on the, don't go to bed
angry but hash out the argument,

909
00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:44,200
before you go to sleep, I assume
the answer would be, absolutely 

910
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,900
not go to sleep recharge and 
then come back at it again. 

911
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:51,000
But what's your thought on that?
I would, what would you say 

912
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,400
Julie? 
Oh I would say I mean a lot of 

913
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,400
people cannot would not be able 
to fall asleep if they're angry.

914
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,700
Yeah. 
So I would say, don't start 

915
00:45:58,700 --> 00:46:01,700
talking about anything stressful
for two hours before bed. 

916
00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:04,400
So you don't get an aside 
doctors place, you don't even 

917
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,400
say it. 
I've been my kid just pile. 

918
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,900
On the conversation, I do that 
with my family. 

919
00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:14,700
My, my sister's such 00, such a 
night owl. 

920
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,400
Yeah. 
She if I would say to her, you 

921
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,400
know, call me at 11 and let's 
talk Fuck, and it's not anything

922
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,700
terrible. 
But it is some something 

923
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,300
anything, you know. 
I'm just like I can't even talk 

924
00:46:27,300 --> 00:46:29,700
about the news. 
You're like, no, no, no, yeah, I

925
00:46:29,700 --> 00:46:31,900
just can't do it. 
And she's learned like she 

926
00:46:31,900 --> 00:46:34,900
knows, I'm she was enough for me
to chat with her and two hours, 

927
00:46:34,900 --> 00:46:37,500
but I tell you, I can't talk 
about this. 

928
00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:40,300
This thing because I won't be 
able to go to sleep because my 

929
00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:43,100
for me, it's office. 
Little is Miss day is today? 

930
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,600
Yeah anxiety and I can't fall 
asleep. 

931
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,100
Doesn't even have to be 
something huge. 

932
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,500
Just be tiny. 
You so yeah, that's interesting.

933
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:53,300
And I don't think I've thought 
about that before of like 

934
00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:55,900
setting boundaries with like 
what conversations you're 

935
00:46:55,900 --> 00:46:58,800
having, what content you're 
consuming because if you're just

936
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,100
like texting your friends are 
like oh I'm relaxing. 

937
00:47:01,100 --> 00:47:05,400
But it really does open the door
to anxiety to potentially 

938
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,400
ruminating about interactions 
and making it more difficult to 

939
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,700
fall asleep, which is a huge 
thing for teenagers hundred 

940
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:15,200
percent because the teenage 
brain is a socially wired brain.

941
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,700
Yeah, and you are primed to 
wonder what other people are 

942
00:47:18,700 --> 00:47:21,400
doing. 
And everyone of all ages is 

943
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,500
social, but especially 
teenagers. 

944
00:47:23,900 --> 00:47:27,100
So yeah, we call it the Sleep 
bubble in the book that you 

945
00:47:27,100 --> 00:47:29,800
really want to create a bubble 
around your sleep and it starts 

946
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,100
with that. 
That's why I like saying good 

947
00:47:32,100 --> 00:47:34,500
night to your friends, an hour 
before you go to bed, it's 

948
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:36,000
really helpful. 
Yeah. 

949
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,200
If there is one thing that 
people could leave this episode 

950
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,000
and Implement to improve their 
sleep, what would it be? 

951
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:46,800
Well, going back to what we said
at the very beginning. 

952
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,000
I think if you just really trust
your body and believe in your 

953
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,800
body and brain and know how 
capable they are of helping you 

954
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,100
sleep, well, and knowing how 
much sleep you need. 

955
00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:01,500
I think that's a really great 
way to sort of, think about it. 

956
00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:05,600
Not like, oh, I have to do this,
but yeah, my body wants to do it

957
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,400
and it can, and I just need to 
clear the way a little bit so 

958
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,700
that my body can get the sleep. 
It needs. 

959
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:15,800
And like, I think, you know what
you said, About even just after 

960
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,900
a few nights of good sleep, the 
difference is so profound and 

961
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:23,300
just give yourself that gift of 
feeling that way. 

962
00:48:23,300 --> 00:48:26,600
Yeah, but even reframing and 
being like, I got to have this 

963
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,300
amazing break from stress, from 
thinking, about homework, from 

964
00:48:30,300 --> 00:48:33,300
going from point, A to point B 
to point C from worrying. 

965
00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:36,000
Like you get to have this time 
that you've carved out for 

966
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,900
yourself to relax, to get ready 
to, for bed to sleep to 

967
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:42,800
recharge, and then show up as a 
better version of yourself. 

968
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,400
I think that's a really We 
simple, like, mental shift. 

969
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,500
You can make that makes it more 
attractive. 

970
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:50,900
Almost deprioritized. 
Awesome. 

971
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:52,800
Well, where can people get your 
books? 

972
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,300
Continue to follow along with 
your work and consume your 

973
00:48:55,300 --> 00:48:59,200
content you? 
So our website is the Happy 

974
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:03,200
Sleeper.com, and the books, we 
have the Happy Sleeper and then 

975
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,200
our new book is Generation 
Sleepless and those are 

976
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,900
available everywhere. 
And our social media is the 

977
00:49:07,900 --> 00:49:12,600
Happy Sleeper cost and then you 
can start hashtag generation 

978
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:13,900
Sleepless. 
The sleep challenge. 

979
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:18,700
I will, I literally, well, I 
love it and I will make sure to 

980
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:20,400
link all of those things in the 
show notes. 

981
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,200
If anyone wants to join me on 
the sleeve challenge, it's gonna

982
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,500
happen. 
We can all that prove, our sleep

983
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:28,500
together to hear. 
Can't wait to hear how it goes. 

984
00:49:28,700 --> 00:49:31,700
Well, thank you guys so much. 
I'm so glad we got to do this. 

985
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,200
Thank you so much for listening 
to this week's episode of. 

986
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,300
She persisted. 
If you enjoyed, make sure to 

987
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:38,700
share with a friend or family 
member, it really helps out the 

988
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:42,000
podcast and if you haven't 
already leave a review on Apple 

989
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,400
podcasts or Spotify, you can 
Also make sure to follow along 

990
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,900
at at she persisted podcast on 
both Instagram and Tik-Tok and 

991
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:51,300
check out all the bonus 
resources content and 

992
00:49:51,300 --> 00:49:54,700
information on my website. 
She persisted podcast.com, 

993
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,700
thanks for supporting, keep 
persisting and I'll see you next

994
00:49:57,700 --> 00:49:58,200
week.