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Welcome to she persisted I'm 
your host Sadie Saxton a 19 year

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old from the Bay Area studying 
psychology at the University of 

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Pennsylvania. 
She persisted is the Teen Mental

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Health podcast made for 
teenagers by a team in each 

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episode. 
I'll bring you authentic 

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accessible and relatable 
conversations about every aspect

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of mental Wellness. 
You can expect evidence-based, 

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Tina, proof resources, coping 
skills, including lots of DBT, 

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insights and education. 
In each piece of content, you 

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consume, she persisted It offers
you a safe space to feel 

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validated and understood in your
struggle. 

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While encouraging you to take 
ownership of your journey and 

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build your life worth living. 
So, let's dive in this week on. 

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She persisted for having young 
women, young men children, 

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because we are seeing programs 
that take children that are 

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younger than the teenage level 
that are forcibly removed from 

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their home. 
They don't know where they're 

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going, they don't know what 
playing they're getting on. 

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There is no information 
generally, they're going to be 

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handcuffed hours that time. 
Died. 

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And these programs promote will 
transport them. 

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If they resist us and we know 
there's an issue at the airport 

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will transport them until they 
give in and then we'll jump on 

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an airplane. 
Quick disclaimer all statements 

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in this episode. 
Our opinions, the purpose of 

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this episode is not to Target 
our attack, certain 

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organizations and individuals. 
But rather ask the question. 

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How can we ensure ethical 
evidence-based? 

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Compassionate mental health 
treatment for all teenagers with

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that? 
Let's dive in. 

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Hello, hello, and welcome back 
to she persisted. 

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I'm so excited. 
You're here. 

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Today we are talking about 
something. 

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That is very important, very 
near and dear to my heart which 

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is breaking code silence and the
work, they are doing to increase

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regulation and the troubled teen
industry. 

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I've done a handful of episodes 
on this in the past and I'll 

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make sure to link them in the 
show notes that if this Sparks 

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your interest, you can kind of 
do a deep dive into these 

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different episodes here, 
different people's stories, 

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you're my experience, Etc. 
And if you're also like, what is

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the troubled teen industry? 
I will also explain that in this

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introduction, so don't worry. 
But today's guest is Bobby cook.

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He is On the breaking code 
silence team. 

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He gives a great explanation of 
what he does. 

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What breaking code silence? 
Does their mission and also his 

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background and the troubled teen
industry, which was really just 

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amazing to hear. 
And to have him share his story 

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and why? 
He's so passionate about this as

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conversation is so educational 
and enlightening, since my 

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experience at a therapeutic 
boarding school and kind of 

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being somewhat involved in this 
world and being aware of what 

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bringing cosines is doing. 
And all of the work that still 

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needs to be done to increased 
regulation of these programs. 

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I've wanted to have someone from
breaking code silence on, she 

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persisted because they are at 
the Forefront of this work. 

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They are so educated and 
insightful. 

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So I emailed they said yes I am 
so excited that we got to do 

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this interview and have this 
conversation. 

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As we talk about the history of 
the troubled teen industry, we 

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talked about not sap. 
We talked about breaking code 

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silence next steps, anything and
everything relating to that. 

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But I also wanted to add here 
that a great place to start with

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kind of learning about this is 
the Paris Hilton documentary, 

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it's called This is Paris. 
And in He documentary, she talks

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a lot about her personal 
experiences in the troubled teen

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industry. 
She talks about some programs 

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that she went to and you see her
journey to work with survivors 

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to get her program. 
Shut down, unfortunately still 

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open but steps are being made 
and they just did an amazing job

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illustrating. 
What these programs are like how

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they can impact and affect so 
many teens. 

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And I think that's just a great 
place to start if you are going 

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into this blind. 
So, I'll link that in the show 

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notes, but to give you some 
stats and information about the 

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troubled teen industry and 
breaking code silence before we 

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start. 
So the troubled teen industry 

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specifically in the u.s. is a 
network of privately owned 

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programs. 
They're often Wilderness based 

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Residential Treatment Centers, 
therapeutic boarding, schools, 

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group, homes boot camps and 
faith-based Academy. 

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It's that our marketing 
behavioral change and mental 

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health treatments to parents. 
And the difference between these

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programs in the troubled, 
Industry and programs like three

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East McLean Hospital, which is 
where I went to residential, and

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I speak. 
So, highly of is the lack of 

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Regulation and the lack of 
evidence based treatment and the

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lack of communication. 
And also the very much so 

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illegal and unethical things 
that happen here at these 

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programs, which we will dive 
into in this conversation, do 

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you want to add at the beginning
of this episode that mental 

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health treatment and Mental 
Health Care works? 

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It changed my life. 
It saved my life. 

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I am so turned. 
Really grateful to three East 

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and McLean Hospital, and the 
wonderful collection of doctors 

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and therapists and team members 
there for using evidence-based. 

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Dialectical behavioral treatment
for working collaboratively for 

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involving my family, and 
forgetting me, the help and 

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support that, I needed when I 
was truly at my lowest point 

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therapy works mental health 
treatment works, it's an amazing

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resource and that's why it's so 
important to regulate these 

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programs. 
Because the last thing you want 

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is, when you finally get the 
strength and the Courage to ask 

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for help and then you start to 
pursue that help when you are 

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met with unethical ineffective 
and sometimes more traumatizing 

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treatment, you just go in the 
opposite direction. 

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And so heartbreaking to know 
that people are at their lowest 

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point. 
They're just looking for support

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and help and they're met with 
the opposite. 

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And another caveat that I want 
to add here. 

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Is that. 
What's so, again, heartbreaking 

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about this is a lot of the times
parents don't realize until 

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after the fact, these programs 
Our expert marketers, they're 

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saying exactly what parents want
to hear, which is that we can 

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help your child. 
We can fix your child, they will

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stop suffering, they will stop 
being in pain and that's all a 

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parent wants to hear because 
it's their worst nightmare to 

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see their child struggling in 
such a big way. 

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And so after they're like, yes, 
please help me. 

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This is amazing. 
Your child is then put into 

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these troubled teen programs. 
And one of the signs of these is

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a huge lack of communication 
between the parents and the 

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child. 
So, that line of communication 

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is Pop out and then it becomes 
very difficult for the teen to 

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be able to say something isn't, 
right? 

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So those caveats which is one 
that mental health treatment is 

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so important and effective and 
amazing which is why there 

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should be a high standard of 
care for all of these programs. 

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So that when you pursue mental 
health care and pursue support, 

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you get support and you get 
evidence based care, which is 

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what you should be getting in 
the first place. 

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And second, this conversation is
not directed at parents who are 

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just doing their best and trying
to get their child support 

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again. 
This is about increasing 

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regulation, education around 
troubled teen industry programs.

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So numbers on the troubled teen 
industry, which again we talked 

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about is therapeutic boarding 
schools, Wilderness programs, 

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faith-based Academy's, 
behavioral change programs Etc. 

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There are over 6,000 under 
regulated congregate care 

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facilities, just in the United 
States. 

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There's over twenty three 
billion dollars of Public 

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Funding. 
Spent on troubled families. 

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There's over 200,000 children 
and teens placed in congregate 

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care and Lee, not all time 
annually and there's zero 

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Federal legislation, overseeing.
These troubled teen industry 

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programs. 
Those are some really shocking 

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statistics to hear because it 
doesn't seem right. 

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That 200,000 youth are put into 
6,000 programs that are funded 

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with 24 billion dollars and 
there's your federal 

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legislation, but that is the 
facts. 

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That is the statistics here. 
So to kind of clarify, what 

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makes a troubled, teen Industry 
Program. 

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Harmful, there's a very 
extensive list on the breaking 

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code silence website, which I'll
link in the show notes, but to 

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give you a couple of ideas and 
red flags to be aware of, and if

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you yourself have been in 
treatment in your like, oh my 

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gosh. 
All of those were at my program,

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kind of recognizing. 
And if maybe your parent looking

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at programs, just things to be 
aware of. 

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So, the program recommends 
involuntary admittance, which 

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means that the teen is put into 
this program without consent 

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without permission. 
They are signed up without any 

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autonomy in the process. 
And as I've shared many times, a

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huge part of my journey was when
I got to Three East at McLean. 

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Hospital in the asked me, do you
want to be here? 

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They made it very clear. 
That three. 

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He's was a voluntary program and
that it only works, if you are 

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an active participant and you 
want to be there and you're 

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motivated to get better and 
improve and you trust your care 

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providers, you want to be 
involved in the process and 

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pinpoint that as the moment that
everything shifted for me 

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because I went from going 
through the motions of being in 

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therapy and outpatient programs 
but not believing, that change 

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was truly possible, and not 
trusting people to help me. 

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To deciding that I wanted to get
better, trusting others, and 

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then allowing the process to 
happen, and that was a lot of 

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difficult. 
Tough work that went in there. 

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So, that's kind of the 
difference between an 

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involuntary admit it where your 
parents sign somewhere on a 

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dotted line. 
And you don't have any role in 

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the process. 
Verse says being very involved 

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and having your autonomy over 
yourself and your health care. 

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The second one to mention is 
that the program recommends 

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forceful Transportation or 
escort services, This was 

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referred to during my time in 
the troubled teen industry as 

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gooning and I've never been goon
to thank goodness. 

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I can't even imagine how 
traumatizing of an experience 

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this is but basically your 
parents are your Guardians 

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higher Transport service and 
you're woken up in the middle of

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the night to kind of catch you 
off guard and you're physically 

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transported from your home to 
the program. 

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And if anyone's woken up in the 
middle of the night by strangers

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in your room, many of these 
teens are like I'm being 

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kidnapped and being Taken and 
you're screaming and crying for 

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help, and most of these 
transport programs legally, 

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require a parent to watch. 
So, you're watching your 

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parents. 
Watch you get kidnapped and 

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being taken across the country, 
or to a different state without 

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knowing where you're going. 
And again, having no autonomy or

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control over this process. 
A third thing is that the 

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program is not state-licensed 
accredited for at least three 

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components, which is educational
mental, and Behavioral Health 

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and residential really great 
example of this. 

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And at the end of the central, 
kind of give a really brief 

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overview of my Through the 
trouble. 

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And teen industry is basic 
educational things at the 

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therapeutic boarding school, I 
went to one of the reasons why 

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it was so attractive to my 
parents and me as well, is that 

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I could continue. 
My education pursuing mental 

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health, treatment comes at a 
huge cost especially if you are 

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a teen and you're supposed to be
in high school or college and so

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to be able to go to school will 
also getting Mental Health Care 

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was a great idea but because the
school really wasn't adequately 

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accredited, my science teacher 
since my sophomore year of high 

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school didn't have a teaching 
license. 

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His only experience was, he was 
a pre-med student in college 

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before he dropped out and joined
the forestry service. 

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And so if there's a red flag 
there and the educational 

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sector, it's only an indicator 
of how on a crowded Ed and 

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unlicensed other areas within 
the program can be the fourth 

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one, is that the program uses a 
contract with terms that ask the

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parent to sign over their 
custodial rights or agree to not

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report child abuse. 
So what that means is that when 

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you enter these programs, your 
parents give up their custody of

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you. 
And this was something that Went

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to me, when I went to the 
therapeutic boarding school in 

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Montana. 
When I started my 14 months, 

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they're my parents had to sign a
document. 

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You could it enter the program 
without doing this, where they 

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signed over 51% of my custody. 
So my parents weren't 

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responsible for me. 
This corporate organization was 

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actually, I think the person 
that legally had responsibility 

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00:11:22,500 --> 00:11:27,300
for me, was The Tech Guy on 
campus and so like I just shared

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00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:30,200
my experience at McLean, 
Hospital was amazing and they 

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00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,000
never wired my parents to sign 
over 51% of custody. 

236
00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:36,400
I had much more intensive and 
extensive Mental Health Care 

237
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,300
MacLean and that was never 
something that was required. 

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That is not a standard of care 
for medical care for mental 

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00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,100
health. 
Care to give up custody and give

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00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:48,200
it to a program. 
The reason that we do this is 

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that they can make all decisions
on your behalf. 

242
00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:53,600
You don't have to give consent 
for things they can give consent

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00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:57,300
and so that is a huge red flag. 
No program should be requiring 

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that because it's not a standard
of care and it's not necessary. 

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Next one is that the program 
employs mostly uneducated or 

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00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,900
under trained staff to handle 
the majority of the day-to-day 

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care of the children? 
While there might be one or two 

248
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:13,500
therapists on staff your child 
or you or probably only seeing 

249
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:15,800
that therapist, what a couple 
hours a week. 

250
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:21,000
My experience was that 10 12 
hours a day, the entire weekend.

251
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,300
Over night. 
I was with high school educated 

252
00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:26,800
staff members with no experience
in the mental health field and 

253
00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,700
so when we weren't in a crisis, 
when we were really struggling 

254
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when there were really real 
Behavior, Ural challenges 

255
00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:36,400
occurring in these teens the 
people that were handling, it 

256
00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:40,300
were under educated and under 
trained staff members. 

257
00:12:40,300 --> 00:12:43,300
And that again is a huge 
difference at McClain people 

258
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that are teaching skills and 
that our day-to-day people that 

259
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,800
you are interacting with most of
these adults were pursuing a 

260
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,300
degree in Psychology 
potentially, they had other 

261
00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:56,200
experience in the mental health 
industry. 

262
00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,700
They were extensively trained, 
they knew DBT like the back of 

263
00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:02,900
their hands so that they were 
Trained and equipped to handle a

264
00:13:02,908 --> 00:13:04,800
crisis mode. 
There was always therapist on 

265
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,900
staff therapist where they're 10
to 12 hours a day meeting with 

266
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:09,300
other patients. 
Doing other things. 

267
00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:12,900
Really a huge 180 from the 
therapeutic boarding school. 

268
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The second to last thing that 
I'll mention it again. 

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There's like 15 20, maybe even 
30 of these, that you can look 

270
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:21,200
in depth on the breaking code 
silence website, but the second 

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00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,800
to last one is that the program 
only allows monitored or limited

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00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,600
telephone communication with 
parents. 

273
00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:29,800
When I was at this therapeutic 
boarding school, you were not 

274
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,400
able to have phone calls. 
With your parents until you 

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00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,100
reach the third level. 
And for most people that was 

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00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:37,400
like three to six months of 
being at this program. 

277
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:40,100
And when you did earn that 
privilege the privilege that you

278
00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:43,100
are earning was a five-minute 
supervised call. 

279
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,200
Once a week, this is hugely 
abnormal for mental health care.

280
00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:49,700
Whenever I was in a psychiatric 
ward. 

281
00:13:49,700 --> 00:13:53,200
Whenever I was at McClain there 
is open access to phones. 

282
00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:56,700
Of course there are certain 
limitations sometimes like when 

283
00:13:56,700 --> 00:14:00,000
I was at MacLean we created an 
approved list and I was involved

284
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,200
in that process it was like 
these Friends that are really 

285
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,600
healthy and supportive and that 
I will call that. 

286
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,500
I know will be effective in my 
treatment journey and these are 

287
00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:10,300
family members and this is my 
parents number and I could call 

288
00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:12,000
them as many times a day as I 
wanted. 

289
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,000
And of course, they're like, 
Sadie were not going to answer 

290
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,500
if you call is 12 times a day, 
normal parents, I don't blame 

291
00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:20,800
you but that was an option. 
I was allowed to call them in 

292
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,100
the Adolescent. 
Psych units in California at 

293
00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:24,500
least when I went to there was 
open. 

294
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:26,000
Phone access anytime you wanted 
to call. 

295
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,500
Someone use went to the phone. 
You dialed the number having 

296
00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:30,800
extremely limited. 
We're talking five minutes a 

297
00:14:30,808 --> 00:14:31,200
week. 
One. 

298
00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:34,300
It's a week supervised or maybe 
an hour once a week with a 

299
00:14:34,308 --> 00:14:37,300
therapist present doing family 
therapy, that is not normal. 

300
00:14:37,300 --> 00:14:40,200
And that is not a standard of 
care, especially for teens, when

301
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,500
family Dynamics and family 
relationships are of the utmost 

302
00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:45,900
importance. 
The last one that I'll mention 

303
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:49,500
is that the duration of the 
internment at the program, is 

304
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:51,500
really ambiguous. 
There's an indefinite 

305
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:54,000
detainment. 
I remember at three, he's the 

306
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,600
guidelines were very set forth. 
There was a minimum stay, which 

307
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,200
I think was 28 days. 
There was a standard length of 

308
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,600
Day, which is four to six weeks.
And I remember, even when I was 

309
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,000
there, I think they adjusted it 
because they were like, you know

310
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,500
what, we're finding that 
patients are having more 

311
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:11,200
effective outcomes from saying 
six to eight weeks rather than 

312
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,600
four to six. 
And if they adjusted that based 

313
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,500
on what they were seeing in 
Montana, this length of stay was

314
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,300
literally all over the place. 
I remember there were girls that

315
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:23,600
were there for 11 months. 
There were girls that were there

316
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,900
for three years. 
There were girls that were 

317
00:15:25,900 --> 00:15:27,800
getting pulled left and right. 
And we're there for only a 

318
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,300
couple weeks or a couple of 
months. 

319
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:32,000
There really was not a nerd of 
care. 

320
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,400
And I remember that when I went 
into the Montana program, we 

321
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,000
were like, maybe best case 
scenario. 

322
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,100
It would be possible for me to 
go home and do my spring of 

323
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:44,300
sophomore year at home. 
And then it was like, okay, we 

324
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:45,800
knew that was getting our hopes 
up. 

325
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,600
So end of sophomore year, 100%, 
I'll be at home, and then it 

326
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,100
ended up being like, I barely 
got home for junior year. 

327
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:52,600
They didn't want me to leave my 
parents. 

328
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,200
Like, we're done. 
We're leaving. 

329
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,300
This is the end of this 
experience. 

330
00:15:56,300 --> 00:15:57,600
She is good. 
She is fine. 

331
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,200
She's coming home. 
So that extreme flexibility. 

332
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,900
Of people's length of stay being
like, six months, eight months 

333
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,000
to three years is not a standard
of care. 

334
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:11,300
And you guys have heard me say 
this before, but whatever I'm 

335
00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:14,300
like, is mental health stigma 
coming into play here. 

336
00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:16,800
I always check these things 
again, standards of care for 

337
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,400
physical health, where I check, 
how I would think about a 

338
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,700
physical health problem versus a
mental health problem. 

339
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,600
If you were going to do physical
therapy for a broken leg, they 

340
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,900
would give you an estimate of 
time that you would be doing the

341
00:16:26,908 --> 00:16:29,900
physical therapy program for. 
Yes, maybe it would adjust based

342
00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:32,300
on how you were performing, or 
How you were healing, but there 

343
00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:36,600
would be an estimated length of 
stay, not, maybe eight months, 

344
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,100
maybe three years, right? 
And there are certain markers, 

345
00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:40,800
your meeting. 
You know what, you have to do to

346
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,900
leave. 
That was not the case at the 

347
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:44,400
therapeutic boarding school at I
was at. 

348
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,300
So again, so many red flags and 
these programs and you can look 

349
00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:51,800
at the full list but just some 
basic ones to be aware of and to

350
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,800
kind of again clarify, what 
these programs are like. 

351
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,000
So the last thing that I want to
mention here now that we kind of

352
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,900
have an understanding of what 
exactly that Lay the troubled 

353
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:05,200
teen industry as some stats. 
What to look for. 

354
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,900
What makes these programs part 
of the troubled teen industry. 

355
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:10,900
We've emphasized that this is 
not a reflection of parents is a

356
00:17:10,908 --> 00:17:13,900
reflection of the industry. 
We've emphasized that Mental 

357
00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:15,599
Health Care works. 
It's so important. 

358
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,400
And that's why getting these 
programs accredited and 

359
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,500
overseeing is so crucial. 
I'm going to talk very vaguely 

360
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:24,099
about my experience to give a 
little bit of a foundation and 

361
00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:26,000
also explain why I'm so 
passionate about this. 

362
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,000
So I went to a therapeutic 
boarding school after my 14 

363
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,100
weeks at McClain, I was there 
for 14 months. 

364
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:34,600
And like I mentioned there was a
many things that were not up to 

365
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,300
standard of what things should 
be. 

366
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:39,000
Like at a mental health 
facility, the vast majority of 

367
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,300
Staff members that we were 
interacting with only required a

368
00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:45,700
high school education and no, 
mental, health experienced staff

369
00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:48,200
were all trained on site which 
doesn't necessarily have to be a

370
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,800
bad thing. 
I believe, McClane also trained 

371
00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,100
their team members on site, but 
there's a difference between 

372
00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:55,500
training on-site at the number 
one, mental hospital in the 

373
00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:56,900
world. 
That's a Harvard accredited. 

374
00:17:56,900 --> 00:18:00,700
Med school and has like 100 
years of experience and 

375
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:02,800
evidence-based. 
Practices that you're using and 

376
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,100
training on site with people 
whose only experiences at that 

377
00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:10,400
program. 
Have no further education and 

378
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,800
again, no other experience 
within the mental health field, 

379
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,500
so you can kind of see the 
difference between training 

380
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:16,700
on-site there. 
But the vast majority of people,

381
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:20,100
we were interacting with were 
under educated and undertrained.

382
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,500
During my time there, there was 
no psychologist on staff. 

383
00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:26,900
There is a psychiatrist who 
would come every month, maybe 

384
00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:29,700
every three months to check in 
with patients, but there wasn't 

385
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:32,200
a psychiatrist on staff. 
It was more like he came and 

386
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,700
visited patients again, very 
different from McClain where I 

387
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:36,800
think there was like three or 
four psychiatrists on staff that

388
00:18:36,808 --> 00:18:39,900
you were meeting with on almost 
a weekly basis to my knowledge. 

389
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:43,600
Now there are no psychologist on
staff. 

390
00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:46,700
They have people that are doing 
therapy with a masters of 

391
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:49,600
education and no degree in 
Psychology. 

392
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:53,700
They were not sticking to an 
evidence-based therapy modality.

393
00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:56,000
Again, I'm claiming use 
dialectical behavioral therapy 

394
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,800
which has dozens of studies 
supporting that there was no 

395
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,600
therapeutic modality being used.
You kind of Shut up for a 

396
00:19:01,608 --> 00:19:04,600
session, you talked about 
things, and hopefully, things 

397
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,300
shifted the contact with parents
and teens with another huge red 

398
00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:09,700
flag at the therapeutic boarding
school. 

399
00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:11,400
I went to again at the 
beginning. 

400
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,400
There was no contact you, then 
could fax letters twice a week 

401
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,300
to your parents. 
You had supervised family 

402
00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:22,300
therapy calls with a therapist 
once a week since not all teens 

403
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:24,300
there had that. 
But most of them did. 

404
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,000
And then once you were there for
about three to six months, you 

405
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,300
earn the privilege of a 
supervised phone call once a 

406
00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:32,200
week, it wasn't until you were 
probably We in your last month 

407
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,800
of the program that you earn the
privilege of having your own 

408
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,900
phone. 
Again, the academics were really

409
00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:39,300
under regulated. 
I remember part of the credits 

410
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:41,500
that I received in high school, 
were me, literally teaching 

411
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:45,300
myself on a computer, Spanish, 
and history, and all of these 

412
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:47,400
things. 
And so, if that's what the 

413
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,100
academic standards are, and this
is a therapeutic boarding 

414
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:52,800
school, imagine what the stands 
were for therapy and Mental 

415
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,400
Health Care. 
Needless to say, that experience

416
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,700
was not the greatest for me and 
I want to emphasize that it was 

417
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:02,000
one of the better programs in 
Industry. 

418
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:04,800
My parents worked so many 
therapeutic boarding schools to 

419
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,300
try and figure out what my next 
step would be from McClain. 

420
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:09,300
And that was the best one that 
they found. 

421
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:13,200
And to know that the best one 
that was out there with still 

422
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,300
not held to the standard of care
that all programs should be. 

423
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,400
Just breaks my heart to think 
about what other teams are going

424
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:21,500
through. 
What I know they were going 

425
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:23,600
through because it's so many 
teens at this. 

426
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,800
Therapeutic boarding school came
straight from Wilderness therapy

427
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,100
and we've done opposites on that
in the past, which I'll link in 

428
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:31,100
the show notes, but I really 
want to emphasize there. 

429
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,300
That this is one of the good 
programs, so that speaks volumes

430
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:37,200
to what these other programs 
have occurring and Bobby talks 

431
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,800
about this, a lot in this 
episode's there. 

432
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:42,000
Many children. 
Many teens have died in these 

433
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,200
programs. 
There are many, many long-term 

434
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,100
health issues. 
There are people that are being 

435
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:50,100
physically restrained. 
Put an isolation starved. 

436
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:52,400
These programs are really really
terrible. 

437
00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:55,900
And so across the board, we need
better regulation and I'm 

438
00:20:55,900 --> 00:20:59,500
grateful that my experience was 
one that was emotionally a 

439
00:20:59,508 --> 00:21:01,100
little bit difficult to 
navigate. 

440
00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:05,400
But my physical health was okay,
and I made it to the other side.

441
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,200
And so with that kind of 
foundation established, I hope 

442
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,100
you guys learn a lot from this 
episode. 

443
00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:15,200
I hope you find it valuable and 
informative and educational and 

444
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,800
it's something that I really 
proud of. 

445
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,900
And it's a cause that I am very 
passionate about. 

446
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:24,500
So with that, let's hear from 
Bobby about all things. 

447
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:27,100
Troubled, teen industry and 
breaking code silence. 

448
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,200
Thank you so much for joining me
today. 

449
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,000
Bobby, I'm so excited to have 
you on the show. 

450
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,500
Oh, and just to be able to pick 
your brain about this, super 

451
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:37,400
important topic and provide a 
lot of answers for listeners 

452
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,000
that I can only give so much 
advice on. 

453
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,600
Thank you for having me. 
I, it's an honor to be able to 

454
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,100
speak out about something like 
this. 

455
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,700
Yeah. 
So to start, can you tell me a 

456
00:21:46,708 --> 00:21:49,300
little bit about your background
and how you started working with

457
00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:51,000
breaking code silence? 
Yeah. 

458
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:56,100
So in 2002, I was sent to a 
facility in Dahlonega, Georgia 

459
00:21:56,500 --> 00:22:00,700
called Hidden Lake Academy. 
I was standard teenager who had 

460
00:22:00,700 --> 00:22:05,700
some Family issues and I had 
skipped a couple classes and the

461
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:08,800
school that I was attending at 
the time had recommended that I 

462
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,600
get psychological evaluation and
that turned into recommending an

463
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,300
educational consultant which 
then turned into me being 

464
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:19,200
recommended to a program and I 
was actually I ended up at the 

465
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,100
program for twenty nine months. 
Wow. 

466
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,800
And so after I left that program
I spent a lot of years with 

467
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,600
people. 
Not believing me about my story 

468
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,000
and about the things that 
happened. 

469
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,100
And within those facilities, the
traumas that we experienced the 

470
00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:37,000
abuse that we saw and 
experienced ourselves. 

471
00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:41,200
And about two years ago, a close
personal friend of mine who I 

472
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,200
was at the program was 
introduced me to a group called 

473
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,700
breaking code silence. 
And I join that organization 

474
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:49,000
with the mission to protect 
children from ever having to 

475
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,400
experience anything that I 
experienced as a survivor of a 

476
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,500
program. 
And to really make sure that 

477
00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:58,700
there was legislation and laws 
passed, that really promoted 

478
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:01,300
youth Bill of Rights and 
protecting children from These 

479
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:04,400
atrocities. 
And so that my role just grew 

480
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,300
the organization. 
And I'm now currently the CEO 

481
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:10,000
and executive director with 
breaking code silence and trying

482
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,700
to promote that mission and 
really protect those children. 

483
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,000
You guys are doing such 
important work, and whatever. 

484
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,200
I get questions about this, my 
first direction is go to the 

485
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,200
website, look at what you guys 
are doing because it's again, 

486
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,000
such important work and so few 
people know about it which is 

487
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,600
crazy and we'll kind of touch on
the numbers there but so many 

488
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:29,800
teens have been affected by 
these programs. 

489
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,200
So many teens have gone through 
Ooh, them or have had a friend 

490
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,100
experience them. 
So it's a very widespread issue 

491
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:37,600
and yet we're not having this 
conversation as much as we 

492
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,900
should be. 
I completely agree with you. 

493
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:43,500
Yeah, so you mentioned a couple 
of terms that I want to clarify 

494
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:46,000
for listeners. 
The first one very basically is 

495
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,700
the troubled teen industry for 
listeners that aren't familiar 

496
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:51,600
with that. 
And they know that Mental Health

497
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,700
Care programs are out there. 
What exactly is the troubled 

498
00:23:54,700 --> 00:23:56,700
teen industry? 
How did it start? 

499
00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:59,000
And how do you kind of 
distinguish a troubled teen 

500
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,500
program from other? 
Blessed, mental health care. 

501
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,300
So the troubled teen industry is
a collective of schools and 

502
00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:09,900
programs across the country, 
across the world nowadays. 

503
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,100
Yeah, that promote mental 
health, treatment for children 

504
00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:16,000
and teens. 
They also promote behavior 

505
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,400
modification therapies that are 
supposed to help a family with a

506
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,900
team that is struggling 
different Realms. 

507
00:24:21,900 --> 00:24:23,500
It could be something such as 
mental health. 

508
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,400
It could be something in the 
realm of Behavioral issues such 

509
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,700
as sexual, proclivities smoking 
weed. 

510
00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:33,400
Different Realms, where parents 
don't understand how to help 

511
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:34,800
their children. 
Correct. 

512
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,000
Those actions or get their 
children to help that they're 

513
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,500
looking for. 
And really, this has been around

514
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:42,700
a lot longer than people realize
it has been. 

515
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,100
We're finding research that 
shows that there's been 

516
00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:47,200
facilities like this since the 
1800s. 

517
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,000
Wow. 
But what we're really 

518
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,200
discovering was there was a 
group that came out of 

519
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,300
California in the 1960s and 70s 
called synanon and it was 

520
00:24:56,300 --> 00:25:00,400
supposed to be a take on a a, 
and a all those different drug 

521
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,500
rehabilitation. 
Offerings that were out there 

522
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:05,500
and what they did was they 
created new kinds of therapy and

523
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:08,800
that group really kind of 
exploded into what is now being 

524
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,100
called one of the most dangerous
cult. 

525
00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:13,600
So there's ever walked the face 
of the North America and a lot 

526
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,100
of the people took those ideals 
and they decided that, hey, 

527
00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:21,000
these modules really could 
benefit children and we saw 

528
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,900
programs, like straight 
Incorporated come out. 

529
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,200
And these were really facilities
were children were placed in 

530
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:31,200
them with no realm of contact to
the outside and we're heavily We

531
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,600
monitored and started to become 
abusive. 

532
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,600
We were, we're seeing isolation 
and restraint through the 

533
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,900
history of these programs, the 
were seeing and neglect of 

534
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,300
medical care and basic 
necessities. 

535
00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:44,100
We're seeing families torn 
apart. 

536
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:46,800
We're seeing children verbally 
and physically attacking each 

537
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,000
other. 
In therapy sessions to break 

538
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,800
each other down, to remold them 
into a certain fashion and this 

539
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,200
industry really took off with 
those bass ideals of what sinan 

540
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,700
on had and there was a group 
called si do SI D'you that spun 

541
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:05,800
off of that, they started 
opening up high schools and then

542
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,300
a group came along called wasp, 
the worldwide Association 

543
00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:13,200
specialty programs, and they 
started taking those ideals and 

544
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,800
reforming them in the ways they 
sell appropriate. 

545
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,900
And this just kind of massively 
spread across the world. 

546
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:24,500
I mean, we're seeing facilities 
in Europe and Jamaica and Mexico

547
00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:28,000
at a friend in Brazil like South
America. 

548
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:29,600
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

549
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,600
It just, it really took off. 
Off with these weird. 

550
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,500
Ideations that these groups had 
about how you could change a 

551
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:40,000
child's behavior and it really 
LED down to that. 

552
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,900
As I said that ideal of breaking
someone down to a point that you

553
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:48,200
could rebuild them in a fashion 
that you felt appropriate, 

554
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:50,600
parents are excluded from those 
conversations. 

555
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,200
Love the time parents understand
the therapies that are used 

556
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,900
those tactics as I said, such as
isolation and restraints and 

557
00:26:56,900 --> 00:27:00,200
really this industry started 
profiting off of parents who 

558
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,500
were unaware. 
Yeah and parents who were so 

559
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:04,900
desperate to find help for their
children, that they would do 

560
00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:10,000
anything at any cost and it just
continued to grow and grow. 

561
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,600
And I mean, we're seeing you, 
but the history of this we're 

562
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,000
seeing programs opening monthly 
still across the country and 

563
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,700
they have a history of a program
will shut down but then it will 

564
00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:23,100
reopen under a different name. 
Yeah. 

565
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,600
And a lot of people open another
program or the directors will 

566
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,500
move around to all these 
different locations we're even 

567
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:34,200
seeing Certain groups that had 
multiple facilities shut down 

568
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:37,300
all of a sudden, they're open 
under a different name and it's 

569
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:39,400
the same people who own them, 
they just found it a new 

570
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,800
Healthcare Company. 
Yeah, to go that route or they 

571
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,900
bring in a different investors 
so they could put their names on

572
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:47,200
something. 
And then with the history of the

573
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,400
TTI, what we're seeing is really
there are other groups behind 

574
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,800
the scenes that really promote 
and focus on these programs. 

575
00:27:55,300 --> 00:27:57,900
The founder of my program 
actually, founded one. 

576
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:00,900
That is out there that certifies
and it. 

577
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,100
I didn't see these programs and 
their approval seal goes on 

578
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:08,200
every single website for every 
one of these programs and you're

579
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,900
seeing thousands of facilities 
with this one stamp of approval 

580
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:16,000
and it just grows and grows and 
they have a whole industry of 

581
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,000
what we call Educational 
Consultants which are people who

582
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,000
are paid to recommend schools 
like that's what I want. 

583
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,800
My next question, Educational 
Consultants. 

584
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,200
If you were going through this 
as a parent, would you get an 

585
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,400
educational consultant to find 
you a program? 

586
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,900
No, I would not and this doesn't
Just my because of my history. 

587
00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:36,100
Yeah, in general. 
I would not because a lot of the

588
00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:39,200
times what we're seeing 
statistically is that 

589
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,700
Educational? 
Consultants are told about these

590
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:45,800
programs but they're not doing 
the research that's involved, 

591
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,900
they're not going back and 
looking at the history of a 

592
00:28:47,908 --> 00:28:50,300
program and seeing if there were
lawsuits, if there were abuse 

593
00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:53,300
cases that were going on, we're 
seeing Educational Consultants 

594
00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:56,900
promote programs these days in 
which children are dying. 

595
00:28:57,300 --> 00:29:00,800
Yeah, and when they did visit, 
they visited our program on. 

596
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:04,200
Both occasions. 
We would be show ponies that 

597
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,900
would pick three or four girls 
that had Advanced very far 

598
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:08,900
through the program. 
Had been there for months. 

599
00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:11,800
We would eat in a separate 
dining hall, eat a separate meal

600
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,000
cooked by a different Chef. 
We would talk to them about 

601
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,700
different things that we're 
going on and they weren't asking

602
00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:20,600
the questions about what the 
actual process was. 

603
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:24,900
And I mean, you can find great 
programs without an educational 

604
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:26,900
consultant. 
I went to a residential program 

605
00:29:26,900 --> 00:29:29,300
at McLean Hospital before my 
time in the troubled teen 

606
00:29:29,300 --> 00:29:32,000
industry saved my life. 
I've changed my life 

607
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,100
evidence-based, highly 
effective, my parents were very 

608
00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:37,900
involved. 
Can't speak highly of it enough.

609
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:40,500
No, educational consultant. 
Help them find that program. 

610
00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:42,100
They did that research 
themselves. 

611
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:44,200
No. 
And you know, to touch base on 

612
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,900
what you were saying about how 
they kind of show Pony children.

613
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:51,800
That's what these programs do 
with parents as well. 

614
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,000
That our perspective for these 
programs. 

615
00:29:54,100 --> 00:29:56,000
Yeah. 
You see these beautiful flyers 

616
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,000
and brochures. 
You see all these images online 

617
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,500
of children's smiling. 
Riding horses from A pool 

618
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:05,100
playing at a lake and the 
reality of the program is not 

619
00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:07,600
what you're seeing in those 
photos because they do exactly 

620
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,700
what you just described. 
They know that they're going to 

621
00:30:09,708 --> 00:30:13,000
have say five perspective, 
parents on campus, they will 

622
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,700
select those few children or in 
the case of my program. 

623
00:30:16,700 --> 00:30:18,300
They did what they called field 
days. 

624
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:20,600
All of a sudden there were 
Inflatables there was cotton 

625
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:26,100
candy machines and the parents 
weren't taken down to that area,

626
00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:28,600
but all they could see from a 
distance was all these children 

627
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,900
running around a lake side or a 
sock. 

628
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,200
Soccer field, having fun. 
And then there will be three or 

629
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,800
four specific children who were 
chosen to guide them around that

630
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,700
had a script almost that they 
were to follow and certain 

631
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:42,500
questions we were told to direct
them to other people. 

632
00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:45,600
We were not allowed to answer 
specifics on what our therapy 

633
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,800
was like we could only answer 
specifics on what your daily 

634
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,100
schedule. 
I wake up at 6 a.m. we cleaned 

635
00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:54,300
our dorm rooms, we have 
breakfast, we go to school. 

636
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:57,600
After school there's activities.
We have dinner, we have study 

637
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,800
hall. 
We go to bed on the weekends. 

638
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,400
Sometimes we watch a movie. 
We go down in the student center

639
00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:05,800
and that was our script and they
do that with the Educational 

640
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,400
Consultants, as well as the 
parents. 

641
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,100
Just so there is no liability 
from them coming from a future, 

642
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:13,200
prospective parent or 
educational consultant says. 

643
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,300
Hey, maybe something's wrong 
here. 

644
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:17,700
Yeah, you guys know I'm a 
sophomore at the University of 

645
00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:20,700
Pennsylvania, which is that I am
constantly studying, and 

646
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:23,900
preparing for tests and doing 
readings and all of the things 

647
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:27,500
and it takes a lot of focus and 
requires me to be as effective 

648
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:30,100
and productive as possible. 
So I can also do the things I 

649
00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:32,600
love. 
Like the Podcast and work and 

650
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,100
all these other things that also
take attention and I feel like I

651
00:31:35,108 --> 00:31:38,800
have added the perfect hack to 
my morning routine and that is 

652
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:40,700
Magic mind. 
You might have heard me talk 

653
00:31:40,700 --> 00:31:43,800
about them before I love it, 
especially for days when I have 

654
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,300
a lot of classes or even exam 
coming up or its midterm season.

655
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,000
Because rather than drinking 
multiple cups of coffee and 

656
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,200
feeling all anxious. 
And shaky from the caffeine, I 

657
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,500
can add a shot of magic mind 
with my coffee. 

658
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:59,900
I drink it at the same time and 
I get all the benefits of focus 

659
00:31:59,900 --> 00:32:03,400
and productivity without Any of 
the anxiety or caffeine crash, 

660
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,600
there's a ton of amazing 
ingredients in it. 

661
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,200
My favorite is matcha. 
I've never been able to get 

662
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,700
myself into Masha. 
I wish I could I just can't get 

663
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:13,200
over the taste and that's why I 
love magic mind because you can 

664
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,000
take it just like a Juice shot. 
And you can still drink or 

665
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,800
normal cup of coffee, but you 
get the benefits of matcha, so 

666
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,800
less caffeine. 
It's better absorbed by your 

667
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,900
body. 
It has l-theanine for stress. 

668
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:27,400
And so many other ingredients in
this blend like ashwagandha, 

669
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,400
which helps reduce stress and 
anxiety. 

670
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:34,200
So if you you also would like to
be more productive more focused 

671
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,200
and get the most out of your 
time so you can spend the rest 

672
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,400
of your time investing in things
that make you feel good. 

673
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,600
You can go to magic mind dot 
Coast she persisted again. 

674
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,800
That is Magic mind dotco /g 
persisted and get 40% off your 

675
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,100
subscription 40%. 
That's insane. 

676
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,300
So use code she persisted for 
40% off for the next 10 days. 

677
00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:02,900
So, to put some numbers to this,
how many teens are within this 

678
00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:05,300
industry and it's very 
profitable, which I think a lot 

679
00:33:05,300 --> 00:33:07,800
of people don't realize. 
So if you could kind of give 

680
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,200
some numbers to listeners about 
a, how many humans either 

681
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,600
currently there or have gone 
through these programs and then 

682
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,200
how much these programs are 
making as a whole from profiting

683
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,200
off this very vulnerable 
population. 

684
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,100
So what we're seeing 
statistically as right now, 

685
00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:25,700
there's upwards of probably 
2,000 programs that are up and 

686
00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:29,500
running right now. 
Student wise children within the

687
00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:33,000
programs, we're seeing anywhere 
from 150 to 200,000, children, 

688
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,800
being affected at these moments.
We cannot even begin to put a 

689
00:33:36,808 --> 00:33:38,800
number on the amount of children
that have been through something

690
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:39,900
like this. 
Yeah. 

691
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:43,600
After 20 years of being outside 
of a program and being part of 

692
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,900
different Survivor communities, 
some of these communities that 

693
00:33:46,900 --> 00:33:50,100
are on social media, have 7,000 
members, some of them have 

694
00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:53,900
30,000 members, the history of 
these programs, how long they've

695
00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:55,800
been running, we really can't 
put a number two. 

696
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,900
How many have been through. 
A situation like this. 

697
00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:01,800
But when you talk about the 
profiting that these programs 

698
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,800
are making, it depends on what 
realm you're talking about. 

699
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,199
The prophet coming from, there's
multiple avenues that these 

700
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:12,300
programs make money, they make 
them off of parents who have the

701
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:14,600
money to pay cash. 
That is one way that they Market

702
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,100
this, they use healthcare 
insurance and they have gone. 

703
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:21,500
Now, as far as to using Tricare 
and military veterans, health, 

704
00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:26,000
insurance to help pay for these 
programs, the federal government

705
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,500
and the juvenile court. 
Systems have paid into these 

706
00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:31,199
kind of systems. 
Because when you have a child in

707
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,000
foster care, that's struggling 
that sent to one of these 

708
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,800
programs or a child is 
court-ordered. 

709
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,199
The government or the state ends
up paying, and right now to 

710
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,300
Wishin it drastically ranges. 
But I mean, we're looking, if 

711
00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:45,900
you're talking about a 
residential treatment center, it

712
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:48,500
could be upwards of 12,000 
dollars a month. 

713
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:50,400
It could be something. 
Some programs charge, something 

714
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,100
like forty thousand dollars a 
month. 

715
00:34:52,699 --> 00:34:55,500
If you're looking at a 
Wilderness Program, which is a 

716
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:58,900
whole different realm of this 
in, Mystery of wilderness. 

717
00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:01,300
Therapeutic treatment where 
children were gone for 70 or 80 

718
00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:04,300
Days hiking out in the woods 
that could cost apparent upwards

719
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:06,900
of a thousand dollars a day. 
So talk to me about Wilderness 

720
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:10,000
programs because I feel like 
that is one of the most common 

721
00:35:10,300 --> 00:35:15,100
first points of entry into this 
industry, what exactly is a 

722
00:35:15,107 --> 00:35:18,800
Wilderness Program and to your 
knowledge, is there any research

723
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,600
supporting Wilderness programs 
and positive outcomes for these 

724
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,200
diagnoses? 
That's a great question. 

725
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,700
So when looking at Wilderness 
programs about the ideal is the 

726
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:32,800
model were finding really 
started in about the 1940s in 

727
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,100
Texas. 
Hmm. 

728
00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:36,300
There were other models that 
really try to prove how 

729
00:35:36,308 --> 00:35:40,300
effective this was that came out
of places like BYU in the 60s. 

730
00:35:40,700 --> 00:35:43,500
Yeah, of course, I'm BYU, it's 
always BYU. 

731
00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:46,600
My school is run by more 
minutes, the religious tie and 

732
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,500
especially the Roma Utah, its 
massive. 

733
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:52,900
Yeah, the model is supposed to, 
be you strip, a child of all 

734
00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:56,300
conveniences. 
They don't have access to email 

735
00:35:56,300 --> 00:36:01,300
or Asian or cell phones. 
Social media worse showers is a 

736
00:36:01,300 --> 00:36:03,400
big one Foods. 
A massive one. 

737
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:04,700
Medical Care is the other big 
one. 

738
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,100
But what they do is they really 
promote this idea that we're 

739
00:36:07,107 --> 00:36:08,900
going to take your child out, 
where to strip them of those 

740
00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:12,000
conveniences. 
We're going to teach them how to

741
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,300
take appreciation for those 
things that they no longer have,

742
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,300
and we're going to do therapy 
with them on a daily basis. 

743
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:24,100
Well, that therapy's consisting 
of hiking all day long. 

744
00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:25,900
I mean, you know, we're not, 
we're not just talking like a 

745
00:36:25,908 --> 00:36:29,400
mile or two we're talking. 13 14
miles were talking that they're 

746
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,800
carrying backpacks, that have 70
or 80 pounds. 

747
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,800
And so, then everyone to build 
their own backpacks with tarps 

748
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:39,000
and sticks. 
Yes, there was one associated 

749
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,300
with my program that also shut 
down, where they actually Force 

750
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:44,500
the children. 
How to learn how to make a raft 

751
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:48,000
out of their backpack so that 
they could safely cross a river.

752
00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:51,100
Okay? 
But what we're seeing is that, 

753
00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:52,800
when they're doing all those 
hiking, the children are 

754
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,600
malnourished. 
They're not getting the 

755
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,500
appropriate amount of water. 
The food is very Very basic. 

756
00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:59,900
It could be something as simple 
as just a bowl of rice. 

757
00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:04,300
It could be something towards 
the effect of already feel it, 

758
00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:06,700
all depends, but we're seeing 
evidence. 

759
00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:09,200
Now are programs where the 
children don't even have correct

760
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,400
hiking boots. 
They're wandering around and 

761
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,500
rubber flip-flops and the desert
in the middle of the winter 

762
00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:17,100
because their feet need to 
breathe after they have boots on

763
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:20,800
and they're being told that if 
they want to eat and they want 

764
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,000
to have a hot meal, figure out 
how to start a fire with sticks.

765
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:26,900
They've taken this back to a 
very primitive level. 

766
00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:30,200
But then in return, they are 
padlocking these children's 

767
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,100
tents at night and putting 
motion alarms on them. 

768
00:37:33,100 --> 00:37:35,000
So these children aren't allowed
to get up to go out to the 

769
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,400
bathroom in the middle of the 
Wilderness. 

770
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,400
They're basically handed a jug 
and said, you know, here's your 

771
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:40,800
bathroom. 
I know that you're upset with 

772
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,900
someone else, privacy doesn't 
matter. 

773
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,900
They strip you of all basic 
rights as a human but also has a

774
00:37:46,900 --> 00:37:49,900
child and they really, really 
pushing this. 

775
00:37:49,900 --> 00:37:52,200
And as I said, these programs 
are costing to parents upwards 

776
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,000
of a thousand dollars a day and 
they're promoting things 

777
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,100
nowadays. 
Such as technology addiction, 

778
00:37:57,100 --> 00:37:59,800
we've found a program that is 
taking children as young as 

779
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:05,200
eight for sexual addiction, Wow.
And then they promote and this 

780
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,200
this goes hand-in-hand with not 
only the residential treatment 

781
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,900
facility is but also the 
Wilderness facilities that were 

782
00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:15,900
saying they'll tell a parent, 
your child 90 days, we'll have 

783
00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:18,900
them fixed at the end of 90 
days, they're coming back and 

784
00:38:18,900 --> 00:38:20,700
saying, you know what, there's 
still some issues. 

785
00:38:20,700 --> 00:38:22,200
We need to keep them another 90 
days. 

786
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,000
We'll all of a sudden your 
child's there, seven months 

787
00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:27,200
instead of a month and a half 
when it comes to residential 

788
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,900
treatment facilities were seeing
the same, the same conversation.

789
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,100
Your child hasn't done the 
therapy, like they're supposed 

790
00:38:34,100 --> 00:38:35,300
to, they haven't moved up the 
levels. 

791
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:37,700
They need to. 
So they need to stay here longer

792
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,100
and they will continue to keep a
child as long as insurance is 

793
00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:42,700
paying or the parents are going 
to pay the cash. 

794
00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:44,100
Yeah. 
But on the flip side of it, the 

795
00:38:44,107 --> 00:38:47,400
parents don't realize the 
expenses are not only what 

796
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,600
they're paying for tuition 
programs. 

797
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,000
Are now coming in saying, hey, 
there's this therapy. 

798
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:55,000
It wasn't included in tuition, 
we need you to pay for this. 

799
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,800
Oh hey, by the way, a bottle of 
body wash that you know, was a 

800
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,800
Suave brand is going to be $40 
to you instead of a dollar 85 

801
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,900
that it costs at Walmart. 
Yeah. 

802
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,600
And parents aren't seeing those 
costs associated until well. 

803
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,000
After the fact, what about 
children that are referred from 

804
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,600
Wilderness programs to 
therapeutic boarding schools 

805
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:17,200
owned by the same company. 
You get hooked for four weeks, 

806
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,800
you're like, 90 days in the 
woods but then they're, like, no

807
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,200
12 months at the school. 
I mean, that's one of the, 

808
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,700
that's one of the most common 
practices that is out there. 

809
00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:30,800
In this industry is every one of
these schools has an association

810
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,100
with Some sort of psychologists 
some sort of consultants, and 

811
00:39:35,100 --> 00:39:38,600
then they're tied somehow to one
of these Wilderness programs. 

812
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,600
So that if the child is being 
too extreme within the 

813
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,200
Residential Treatment Center, 
there's a Wilderness Program 

814
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,300
that they can go to, and then 
they could come times at my 

815
00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:50,300
school, it's a real thing. 
Yeah, I mean, well, at my 

816
00:39:50,300 --> 00:39:54,100
program at him like Academy, 
that the Wilderness Program was 

817
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,600
less than half a mile on the 
same property owner. 

818
00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:00,200
So, if you were acting out too 
much, you were just sent down 

819
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,900
the road across. 
Bridge into the woods to a 

820
00:40:03,900 --> 00:40:05,500
program owned by the same 
school. 

821
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,200
Wow. 
And that's just such a common 

822
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,500
practice that we're seeing is 
this back and forth. 

823
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,500
Because all it does is it keeps 
money flowing back and forth 

824
00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:18,300
into this system, and we're 
talking that this is an over a 

825
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:21,300
billion dollar industry. 
Yeah, they're really finding any

826
00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:22,600
aspect they can to make that 
money. 

827
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,600
So if they partner with a 
Wilderness Program, it's well, 

828
00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:28,900
if we refer them, is there a cut
that they're receiving? 

829
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:30,100
We don't know. 
We're not seeing those 

830
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:31,700
statistics because they're 
hiding those things. 

831
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,500
From us. 
Yeah, we have our suspicions. 

832
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,800
You also don't see this, an 
adult Mental Health Care. 

833
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:45,100
Never wouldn't adult be put in 
the woods without their consent 

834
00:40:45,100 --> 00:40:51,000
because that that like agreeing 
to participate is so crucial in 

835
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,000
adult mental health care. 
That's not there in teens you 

836
00:40:54,008 --> 00:40:57,900
don't have to consent and also 
like you mentioned they're 

837
00:40:57,900 --> 00:41:01,000
telling these very vulnerable 
parents, exactly what they want 

838
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,300
to hear which is Help you. 
We have the solution. 

839
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:06,700
We know your child is in pain 
and we can solve this problem 

840
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:10,100
for you which is what makes this
so saddening. 

841
00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:12,700
So many parents don't realize 
what's going on at these 

842
00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:15,200
programs. 
Well, no, when I mean, you know,

843
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,900
the other realm That You Don't 
See in adults or with adults, 

844
00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:21,400
necessarily is something else, 
it's not as talked about within 

845
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,400
this industry, you don't see. 
Two gentlemen, showing up at 

846
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,500
2:00 in the morning. 
Dressed in all black, kicking 

847
00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:30,100
your door open and saying you're
going somewhere against her will

848
00:41:30,100 --> 00:41:32,500
and then escorting. 
You on a bus or Or a plane or in

849
00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:36,700
a car or on a train, however, to
get somewhere that you go 

850
00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:38,200
against your will across state 
lines. 

851
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,400
But with children parents will 
hire these people because that's

852
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,800
what the programs are. 
Recommending a kidnapping. 

853
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,000
Yeah, it really is. 
I mean and it's happening across

854
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,600
state lines. 
It's almost it's on the same 

855
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,900
level as human trafficking. 
Yeah. 

856
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,000
And it's so traumatic. 
Almost all of the girls that 

857
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,000
were at my boarding school. 
They called it gooning and they 

858
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,200
remembered vividly at three am. 
These people showing Up in their

859
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:04,300
home and the parents legally 
have to watch. 

860
00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:07,300
So that the kids know, that are 
quote, unquote know that they're

861
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:10,400
not actually being kidnapped by 
a stranger, but then you're 

862
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,200
taken by these people physically
forcefully to this program, 

863
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,500
without your consent, without 
any knowledge beforehand, and 

864
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:21,400
it's extremely traumatic well, 
and then you're witnessing 

865
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:22,900
nowadays. 
They have regulations that 

866
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:24,900
state. 
If there are other children in 

867
00:42:24,900 --> 00:42:26,800
the house, make sure that 
they're not around to witness 

868
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,900
this. 
Yeah, you know, 20 years ago. 

869
00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:31,600
That wasn't the case anyone that
was in. 

870
00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:34,400
The household and now they're 
actually telling parents let us 

871
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,900
into the house while you will 
stand outside the house. 

872
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:44,600
And you're having young women 
young men children because we 

873
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,900
are seeing programs that take 
children that are younger than 

874
00:42:46,900 --> 00:42:50,000
the teenage level that are 
forcibly removed from their 

875
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,700
home. 
They don't know where they're 

876
00:42:51,700 --> 00:42:53,100
going, they don't know what play
in there. 

877
00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:55,800
Getting on, there is no 
information generally. 

878
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,300
They're going to be handcuffed 
her zip-tied and these programs 

879
00:42:59,300 --> 00:43:02,700
promote will transport them if 
they resist us and we know 

880
00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:05,600
there's would be an issue at the
airport will transport them 

881
00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:08,100
until they give in and then 
we'll jump on an airplane. 

882
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,100
Yeah, were so intimidating that 
a child will given soon believe 

883
00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:15,000
me with the size that we are. 
This child will give in very 

884
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,600
shortly. 
We're seeing that constantly as 

885
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,600
a promotion for these programs. 
And these programs utilize. 

886
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,000
I don't know. 
There's probably 30 of these 

887
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,900
transport companies out there 
that there are all well known to

888
00:43:26,900 --> 00:43:29,300
the industry. 
Yeah, and you just go on the 

889
00:43:29,300 --> 00:43:31,800
website you like book your 
fifteen hundred dollar child 

890
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,500
transport. 
Come tomorrow. 

891
00:43:33,500 --> 00:43:36,100
It's the craziest thing. 
Yes. 

892
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,200
So for Parents that are 
listening to this episode in our

893
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,000
like, my child needs help. 
We've tried everything. 

894
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,300
What should you look for? 
What are these red flags in 

895
00:43:47,300 --> 00:43:50,700
programs on websites? 
Talking to people to be aware of

896
00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:53,000
where you're like? 
Something might not be right? 

897
00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:54,900
I don't know if I should send my
kid here. 

898
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:58,300
So, there's numerous ones that 
we look for when we see red 

899
00:43:58,300 --> 00:44:02,400
flags, first and foremost, if 
you talk to a school and they 

900
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,300
tell you that there's going to 
be limited communication with 

901
00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:07,400
your child, at the beginning of 
their program, that is one of 

902
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,800
the most major. 
Red flags communication is one 

903
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,500
of the highest levels of control
that they have because they will

904
00:44:15,500 --> 00:44:17,600
monitor every word. 
A child says to make sure that 

905
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,100
the child isn't quote-unquote, 
not manipulating the parents 

906
00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:23,200
into getting out of the program.
Also if something Extreme has 

907
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,900
happened like a child goes, the 
hospital. 

908
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:26,900
Child has died. 
They don't want that 

909
00:44:26,900 --> 00:44:28,400
information. 
Getting back to the parents so 

910
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,900
they will control. 
What has said they will cut off 

911
00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:33,300
communication or they will say, 
you can't call your child. 

912
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,700
You can only send them a letter 
and they read these letters back

913
00:44:36,700 --> 00:44:40,600
and forth. 
I Remember, so what I was in a 

914
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,400
mental hospital or when I was at
MacLean, I called my parents 

915
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,800
like three times a day. 
We would check in with a chat, 

916
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,600
we have therapy. 
I just wanted to say hi, I could

917
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:49,800
call them. 
I could call friends. 

918
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,400
If they were approved and 
healthy continents, we'd open 

919
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,000
access to a phone when I went to
the school Montana, not only 

920
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,800
were you not allowed to call a 
parent until you were on the 

921
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,000
third level, which sometimes 
took kids six months to get to 

922
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:04,900
right? 
Were granted a social call. 

923
00:45:04,900 --> 00:45:07,200
If say, for a birthday it was 
supervised. 

924
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,400
I remember just getting These 
phone calls and sobbing and 

925
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,100
refusing to asked to leave 
because I was told, if you asked

926
00:45:13,100 --> 00:45:16,400
to leave, you haven't accepted 
the program, that's a red flag, 

927
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,200
you'll get put back on an 
earlier level. 

928
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:21,200
But then, once you did get on 
the third level, you got that 

929
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,700
social call, it was five 
minutes. 

930
00:45:22,700 --> 00:45:27,100
Monitored once a week, and that 
was all within my program. 

931
00:45:27,100 --> 00:45:29,600
I think I was three minutes of a
phone call a week. 

932
00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:32,600
It's crazy. 
Monitored, I was allowed to talk

933
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,300
to at the beginning. 
I was only allowed to 

934
00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:37,200
communicate with my aunt and 
uncle who are my Guardians who 

935
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,600
had sent me to the Graham. 
Yeah, about four months and I 

936
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,600
was allowed to email on monitor 
Communications to my mother and 

937
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,800
my grandparents and then it was 
like 16 months and I could have 

938
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,900
to approve friends that I could 
talk to 20 months in. 

939
00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:54,500
I was allowed to see those 
friends when I went home for a 

940
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:57,300
visit, which are, you know, 
those are the other red flags. 

941
00:45:57,300 --> 00:45:59,700
You look for when they tell you 
that you're not allowed to see 

942
00:45:59,700 --> 00:46:03,200
your child for months, upon 
months upon months, red flag, 

943
00:46:03,300 --> 00:46:06,000
child played my parents flew out
every weekend, we spent the 

944
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,000
night together. 
We'd go and practice. 

945
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:09,500
Building. 
Our relationship that was 

946
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:14,100
essential in moving forward in 
this program because that family

947
00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:18,100
relationship was so crucial and 
pivotal in recovery herb. 

948
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:21,600
I think I was a year in the 
program before I was allowed to 

949
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,700
go outside of the city limits of
where my program was with my 

950
00:46:24,700 --> 00:46:27,200
parents. 
And my parents only lived, 45 

951
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,500
minutes to an hour down the 
road. 

952
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,600
Yeah. 
And they still had no access 

953
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,600
because Leaving inside one of 
the other big red flags. 

954
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:40,900
If a program asks you to sign 
over 51% of custody or give 

955
00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:44,700
power of attorney. 
Over the child, massive red 

956
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:47,000
flag. 
That's like if you went to get 

957
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,000
your appendix out in the 
hospital said I'm sorry actually

958
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,700
this random person and 
accounting is going to need to 

959
00:46:52,700 --> 00:46:56,300
own you for the next 48 hours 
while we do this procedure, that

960
00:46:56,300 --> 00:46:59,900
would not happen and yet this 
corporation owns me for 14 

961
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:01,500
months. 
Exactly. 

962
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,700
We and, and what they do is, 
they'll tell the parent. 

963
00:47:03,700 --> 00:47:05,100
Do you have the right to remove 
your child? 

964
00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:08,900
But if you do well, like all the
tuition you paid and all these 

965
00:47:08,900 --> 00:47:11,400
things that you paid, we can't 
refund anything. 

966
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:13,800
There are certain steps that we 
now have to go through because 

967
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,300
they really do request. 
Guardianship other red flags are

968
00:47:17,300 --> 00:47:21,000
if they actually promote any 
sort of isolation or restraint. 

969
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,300
Yeah, massive red flag. 
Another big one that we look 

970
00:47:25,300 --> 00:47:31,500
into is look up, the quality of 
the staff we tell every parent. 

971
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,800
Well, we do not recommend 
placement in any program with 

972
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,800
our organization. 
If parents are hesitant, and 

973
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,100
they still want more 
information. 

974
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,000
Look up the qualifications of 
the staff that are at the 

975
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,900
school. 
I think we saw a medical 

976
00:47:45,900 --> 00:47:48,600
director at a program. 
What a degree in Zoology? 

977
00:47:48,900 --> 00:47:52,700
No, that's insane. 
No one point. 

978
00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:55,700
There was someone with a masters
of education fully doing therapy

979
00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:57,400
with girls. 
At this school there is no 

980
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,300
psychologists on staff. 
Our day-to-day staff that we 

981
00:48:00,300 --> 00:48:02,900
spend the majority of our time. 
Time with had a high school 

982
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,200
diploma with no history of 
mental health experience and 

983
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,900
they were trained on site with 
whatever the other staff members

984
00:48:11,900 --> 00:48:13,700
told them. 
There was, we had staff 

985
00:48:13,700 --> 00:48:17,200
turnover, we found a program 
where the highest level of 

986
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,900
Education, someone who had was a
interior design degree and they 

987
00:48:20,900 --> 00:48:24,500
were actually the director of 
the entire program. 

988
00:48:24,700 --> 00:48:27,700
Oh my god, when you look at 
these programs you're seeing 

989
00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:31,800
that generally the highest level
that you're going to see a Is 

990
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,600
dealing with the child, the 
highest level of degree, they 

991
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,500
have is going to be like a 
licensed social worker. 

992
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,600
Yeah. 
That doesn't mean that they're 

993
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,300
qualified and trained. 
Understand the therapeutic 

994
00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:46,300
techniques that are valuable a 
lot of these people don't 

995
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:49,500
understand what trauma based 
evidence is and how that affects

996
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:52,200
therapies or models. 
A lot of them don't have an 

997
00:48:52,207 --> 00:48:56,600
understanding of neuro 
Divergence e and what different 

998
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,400
therapies, can help someone that
is labeled ADHD or autistic. 

999
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,500
If you want to look at what are 
the qualifications, are the 

1000
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:06,600
school's religious-based. 
Because if they are 

1001
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,400
religious-based, generally what 
we're saying is not every 

1002
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,300
program. 
But generally what we're seeing 

1003
00:49:11,300 --> 00:49:13,900
is, if your child goes for 
religious based program and they

1004
00:49:13,900 --> 00:49:17,000
have any conflicts with their 
sexual identity conversion 

1005
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,000
therapy will be used. 
Yeah, and we're seeing that as 

1006
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,900
spread across the board, but 
we're just seeing unqualified 

1007
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:25,300
staff. 
We're seeing teachers that 

1008
00:49:25,300 --> 00:49:26,900
aren't registered. 
We're seeing nurses. 

1009
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,300
Well, let me not one of my 
teachers. 

1010
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:34,400
My science teacher was the 
boyfriend of another staff 

1011
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,400
member. 
He happened to do a semester of 

1012
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,900
medical school before he dropped
out to work in the forest 

1013
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:40,900
service. 
And for that reason, he was 

1014
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:43,400
qualified to be our science 
teacher to teach all of the 

1015
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:44,700
science classes. 
Yeah. 

1016
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:47,000
But I brought this up and I was 
like where is your teaching 

1017
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,600
degree and actually accidentally
made him cry because I was, what

1018
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,400
qualifies you to teach me? 
This, like, I'm now a student at

1019
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,900
the University of Pennsylvania. 
Like my education was very 

1020
00:49:56,900 --> 00:49:59,600
important to me. 
I was like, this is a question 

1021
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:04,900
that has to be asked. 
Yeah, I mean at my school, our 

1022
00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:08,700
Spanish teacher is also the head
of our kitchen, of course, and 

1023
00:50:08,700 --> 00:50:11,000
he was the Spanish teacher 
because he had worked in 

1024
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,200
kitchens and had learned how to 
speak the Spanish language 

1025
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:18,100
tacos. 
You know, it's there cleaning 

1026
00:50:18,100 --> 00:50:20,700
that they have nurses on staff. 
These people, these women these 

1027
00:50:20,700 --> 00:50:23,300
men aren't qualified to be 
giving out medications. 

1028
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:26,500
Oh my God our Tech guy would pay
and out medications. 

1029
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:31,300
He accidentally Gave ADHD meds 
to some random girl that was not

1030
00:50:31,300 --> 00:50:33,600
prescribed them and he was like,
oh, sorry. 

1031
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,000
Oops. 
Well, you know, you see that, 

1032
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:40,300
Jesse, it's mind-boggling. 
How many of these unqualified 

1033
00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:42,600
positions you see? 
I mean, I think when I look back

1034
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,900
to my time 20 years ago, our 
addictions counselor had lost 

1035
00:50:46,900 --> 00:50:52,900
his license to practice in 1992 
for abuse of medications at a 

1036
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:56,000
rehab facility. 
He was the one abusing the 

1037
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,300
medications when He was hired by
your school, they just told 

1038
00:50:59,300 --> 00:51:00,600
everyone they had a certified 
addictions. 

1039
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,100
Counselor parents don't think to
look into the certifications. 

1040
00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:07,500
There are databases where you 
can legitimately go online and 

1041
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:10,100
look and see if someone's 
registered as an RN or if 

1042
00:51:10,100 --> 00:51:11,900
they're registered as a social 
worker. 

1043
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,900
And I think one of the greatest 
quotes that we've seen come out 

1044
00:51:14,900 --> 00:51:17,900
of, anyone was Maya salivates, 
who's an author who wrote a 

1045
00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:22,000
massive book on this industry. 
One of her direct quotes was if 

1046
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,100
they made sure that every staff 
that came in contact with a 

1047
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:29,500
child had a master's level. 
Well, degree and was qualified, 

1048
00:51:29,500 --> 00:51:31,800
the industry would effectively 
shut down overnight. 

1049
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,100
Yeah, because that was exactly 
how it worked at MacLean. 

1050
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,300
That was not how it worked at 
Montana. 

1051
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:41,100
It's night and day. 
Well, they're all, I mean, 

1052
00:51:41,100 --> 00:51:44,500
they're also utilizing things I 
know from my time almost all of 

1053
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:48,900
the not not our therapists. 
But most of the day staff that 

1054
00:51:48,900 --> 00:51:51,300
worked at our school, all had 
some sort of like Social Work 

1055
00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:54,400
degree from Canada, that they 
got a lie, they had never had. 

1056
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,400
They had never actually had 
physical interaction. 

1057
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,400
Our job fields, they were 
brought from local colleges 

1058
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:01,800
because we're seeing that more 
and more. 

1059
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,100
Now as we're seeing the 18 year,
olds coming to these programs to

1060
00:52:05,100 --> 00:52:08,300
work as a day staff. 
Then they become a mentor and 

1061
00:52:08,300 --> 00:52:11,400
they could grow with the program
and you're talking you have an 

1062
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,100
18 year old male or female who's
just out of a program 

1063
00:52:15,100 --> 00:52:17,200
themselves. 
A lot of the time or they're 

1064
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,500
just out of high school and 
they're dealing with children 

1065
00:52:19,700 --> 00:52:23,100
who are very close to their age 
and then the program is want to 

1066
00:52:23,100 --> 00:52:24,600
know why their sexual abuse 
happening. 

1067
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,400
Yeah, you're putting children In
Harm's Way. 

1068
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,000
Yeah, with every decision they 
make with the under qualified 

1069
00:52:31,100 --> 00:52:33,600
knowledgeable, and then when you
look at the therapeutic 

1070
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,200
programs, I mean, I think we saw
a new therapy pop up at a 

1071
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,000
program in Maine, where they 
call it neurological Reset 

1072
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,900
Therapy. 
Oh boy. 

1073
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:44,900
And it's supposed to be like, 
hypnotism and bringing your body

1074
00:52:44,900 --> 00:52:48,000
back to its natural homeostasis.
So you can relearn how to do 

1075
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,400
things. 
That's not evidence, based 

1076
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,000
proven therapeutic tactic. 
Know, I would love to hear you. 

1077
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,800
Talked about accreditations and 
certifications for Programs, not

1078
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:03,100
sap is a huge thing that these 
programs boast. 

1079
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:06,300
So now that's a that's that was 
actually who I was referring to 

1080
00:53:06,300 --> 00:53:09,000
earlier the founder of my 
program actually helped finance 

1081
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,200
some found that sap and that was
in 99. 

1082
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,500
So we're 23 years of a group 
like this out there. 

1083
00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:18,000
You know they change their 
stances on things a lot over the

1084
00:53:18,008 --> 00:53:21,500
history of time about what they 
were looking for how they they 

1085
00:53:21,500 --> 00:53:24,600
don't necessarily a credit is 
what we're learning. 

1086
00:53:24,900 --> 00:53:27,000
They are a membership-based 
organization. 

1087
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:30,600
These programs are paying them 
for the stamp of approval from 

1088
00:53:30,700 --> 00:53:34,100
the knowledge that we're seeing.
And you know, we're tending to 

1089
00:53:34,107 --> 00:53:36,500
see that. 
We think that the membership 

1090
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:40,100
gets them access to courses that
teach them how to fundraise 

1091
00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:41,000
courses. 
That teach them about the 

1092
00:53:41,008 --> 00:53:43,800
specific laws different 
therapeutic techniques when you 

1093
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,900
actually go to their website and
you see the conferences that 

1094
00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:48,800
they have yearly you can look up
course by course by course who's

1095
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:50,800
presenting what program they 
come from? 

1096
00:53:51,300 --> 00:53:53,400
I would as I said I wouldn't say
their accreditation they're not 

1097
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,300
accrediting but they are 
sponsoring. 

1098
00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:57,100
Yeah. 
And they're giving their stamp 

1099
00:53:57,100 --> 00:53:58,000
of approval. 
V. 

1100
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,800
Sadly, there's massive ones like
The Joint Commission, The Joint 

1101
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,800
Commission is tied to the US 
Healthcare System. 

1102
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:07,000
I mean I don't think there's a 
hospital out there in the u.s. 

1103
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,900
that doesn't have some sort of 
The Joint Commission. 

1104
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,100
Yeah, but they're not seeing 
what's happening. 

1105
00:54:12,100 --> 00:54:16,800
They're not getting the reports.
This is Montana had not 

1106
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,700
inspected my boarding school in 
10 years, they apparently 

1107
00:54:21,700 --> 00:54:25,400
oversee these programs, they had
not set foot on campus and yet 

1108
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,400
there was no quote, unquote 
issue. 

1109
00:54:27,500 --> 00:54:31,100
Ooh, or problem with that in 10 
years and the City Utah 

1110
00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:33,700
oversight, is they actually go 
in and count how many toilets 

1111
00:54:33,700 --> 00:54:36,800
there are per child and that's 
how they determine whether it's 

1112
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,100
things. 
You know, we sadly have seen. 

1113
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,600
There was a death at a property 
in Utah in February. 

1114
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,400
Yeah, the school's license had 
been revoked to operate. 

1115
00:54:47,100 --> 00:54:48,800
They appealed it. 
The state said we're going to 

1116
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:53,000
have a hearing this past Monday.
There was no hearing the state 

1117
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,500
settled with them. 
And said, oh, we'll give you 

1118
00:54:54,500 --> 00:54:56,300
some governance. 
You can keep operating. 

1119
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,700
Well, you've had a child You've 
had one that's been in news 

1120
00:54:59,700 --> 00:55:03,600
about massive neglect, for 
medical care, and, you know, the

1121
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:04,900
government doesn't see these 
things. 

1122
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:06,600
They don't have enough proof 
coming out. 

1123
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,500
Yeah, because all of us children
from these programs can say what

1124
00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:14,300
happened to us, but our records 
aren't showing that that's even 

1125
00:55:14,300 --> 00:55:18,600
if we can get records because 
most of us cannot get our 

1126
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,600
records in the state. 
I can't even get my high school 

1127
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,500
transcripts. 
My school was not certified 

1128
00:55:23,500 --> 00:55:27,000
legally by the state as an 
educational center, I no longer 

1129
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:28,200
have high. 
All transcripts. 

1130
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:31,500
Wow. 
So here I am 20 years later. 

1131
00:55:31,500 --> 00:55:34,900
If I hadn't gone to college at 
all, I would be looking to have 

1132
00:55:34,900 --> 00:55:39,200
to take my GED to get a job. 
After I went through schooling, 

1133
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,400
the states don't see these 
things legislators are starting 

1134
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,500
to see these things. 
I know that there's two 

1135
00:55:45,500 --> 00:55:47,700
legislators from Oregon and 
Washington to centers. 

1136
00:55:47,700 --> 00:55:51,000
Have actually opened up recent 
investigations into four groups,

1137
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,300
that own programs to get 
information like that there's 

1138
00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:56,600
been since 2007 or something 
like that. 

1139
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,900
There's been like for National 
level investigations but the 

1140
00:55:59,900 --> 00:56:03,000
outcome doesn't change. 
Yeah, because there's not enough

1141
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:04,700
record improved, that's 
physical. 

1142
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,800
And it's teens, the Well, that 
would be sitting on a witness 

1143
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:12,300
stand, our kids. 
And again, you had no access to 

1144
00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:14,900
technology. 
These records are being written.

1145
00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:16,900
These patient notes are 
completely different from what 

1146
00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:21,400
you're experiencing like. 
How do you even remember every 

1147
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,900
little thing that happened 
during like you and twenty nine 

1148
00:56:23,900 --> 00:56:26,400
months of your life? 
Well, and there's a statute of 

1149
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:32,000
limitations on when and what you
can do and most of us from just 

1150
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,900
the overall community that I've 
met. 

1151
00:56:33,900 --> 00:56:35,900
And I've been at, you know, I've
had the privilege of getting to 

1152
00:56:35,900 --> 00:56:40,300
know and work with Most of us 
walk away, and it's like years 

1153
00:56:40,300 --> 00:56:43,200
down the road. 
Yeah, that's something kind of 

1154
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,300
snaps and goes, wait, something 
wasn't right there was a 

1155
00:56:47,300 --> 00:56:50,300
problem, because when you're in 
these situations, you start 

1156
00:56:50,300 --> 00:56:52,800
blocking things out. 
And you're told, it's okay. 

1157
00:56:52,900 --> 00:56:55,000
You're told that this is 
therapy, this is treatment, 

1158
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,100
everyone around. 
You is doing the same thing and 

1159
00:56:57,100 --> 00:56:59,600
you see this abuse and you see 
things, but it becomes just 

1160
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,700
general everyday. 
Like, you know, my parents being

1161
00:57:01,700 --> 00:57:04,100
told, it's okay, I'm okay. 
You start to learn how to deal 

1162
00:57:04,100 --> 00:57:08,700
with it, cope with it, but a lot
of us block out Recollection and

1163
00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:10,400
then all of a sudden it's 12 
years later. 

1164
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,600
Someone says something, and 
something snaps, and you're 

1165
00:57:12,607 --> 00:57:15,900
triggered and by that point, 
it's too late to get the Justice

1166
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:18,700
you deserve. 
And for me, I'm a big fear. 

1167
00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:22,200
I got out of that program. 
When I was seven, sixteen 

1168
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,700
Seventeen something like that, 
there's that fear of doing 

1169
00:57:25,700 --> 00:57:27,700
anything. 
Because even though my parents, 

1170
00:57:27,700 --> 00:57:30,400
they didn't realize this program
was as bad. 

1171
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,000
They would never knowingly. 
Do anything to Put Me In Harm's 

1172
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,900
Way? 
You still again? 

1173
00:57:34,900 --> 00:57:37,200
Don't have full autonomy over 
yourself your company. 

1174
00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:39,700
Custody could be signed over. 
You could go back to these 

1175
00:57:39,700 --> 00:57:43,500
programs until you've passed 
that birthday and you have 

1176
00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,900
autonomy over yourself. 
Well, any that fear Starts day, 

1177
00:57:46,900 --> 00:57:48,300
one of the program. 
Yeah. 

1178
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,300
You were constantly afraid of 
any consequence that could come 

1179
00:57:52,300 --> 00:57:56,500
from your actions from day one 
because every program is 

1180
00:57:56,500 --> 00:57:59,600
different but as a you know it's
not only isolation restrained, 

1181
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:01,600
that's used but don't neglect, 
your food, don't neglect, you 

1182
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,400
water and my program but we had 
a section of. 

1183
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:08,000
It was called restrictions guys.
Online girls. 

1184
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,000
The other we did upwards of an 
hour and a half to two hours of 

1185
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,600
army, physical therapy, 
exercises a day. 

1186
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,300
We were building staircases and 
mountainsides. 

1187
00:58:16,300 --> 00:58:19,000
We were depleting the campus. 
We were building rain diverts. 

1188
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,000
They had one punishment where 
they would actually have the 

1189
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,000
group lift up. 
Telephone poles, carry them 

1190
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:28,300
across, basically a football 
field, dropped them. 

1191
00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:30,800
And then they say, oh, we don't 
like where that looks pick up 

1192
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,000
the telephone pole, move them 
back. 

1193
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:36,000
We're we're doing laundry. 
We're scrubbing things. 

1194
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:40,000
We were hired to Child labor. 
Yeah, we're seeing a program in 

1195
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,000
Missouri right now where the 
owner has actually specifically 

1196
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,000
on his own personal Facebook 
page. 

1197
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:49,000
Reached out to the public and 
says I will pay you to take 

1198
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,000
children off my campus from like
8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. 

1199
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,100
Saturdays and Sundays. 
I will pay you a hundred twenty 

1200
00:58:55,100 --> 00:58:58,400
dollars per child and the people
in the town or the people that 

1201
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,700
he knows are responding saying, 
well, they do manual labor and 

1202
00:59:01,700 --> 00:59:03,800
he will say they will do 
whatever you ask them to do, or 

1203
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,100
what your family is doing. 
For that day, he is now 

1204
00:59:06,100 --> 00:59:09,600
literally prostituting. 
Turn out so that he doesn't have

1205
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,600
to deal with them so that other 
people could benefit off child. 

1206
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,700
Labor crazy. 
Because again, likely he is 

1207
00:59:14,700 --> 00:59:17,300
their Guardian legally. 
He has control over legally. 

1208
00:59:17,300 --> 00:59:19,300
He can do that. 
Yes, and that's where you begin 

1209
00:59:19,300 --> 00:59:23,400
to become afraid of every move. 
Every thought you have every 

1210
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,700
decision, you make, and then you
leave the program and you're 

1211
00:59:25,700 --> 00:59:27,400
constantly looking over your 
shoulder. 

1212
00:59:27,700 --> 00:59:29,800
You're constantly questioning 
yourself, was that the right 

1213
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:31,500
choice? 
What's going to be the negative 

1214
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:34,100
consequence that follows and 
that could follow? 

1215
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:38,400
You know, we see people who were
in their He's now that it's 

1216
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:43,200
ended programs in the 80s and 
90s that are just seeing this 

1217
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,700
part of how they were affected. 
Yeah, because it's nonstop. 

1218
00:59:46,700 --> 00:59:51,500
Yeah, is a traumatic experience.
So two questions, one is what 

1219
00:59:51,500 --> 00:59:55,100
can listeners do if they want to
help change the troubled teen 

1220
00:59:55,100 --> 00:59:57,100
industry, they haven't 
experienced it themselves, but 

1221
00:59:57,100 --> 00:59:58,800
they want to help work towards 
this increase. 

1222
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,100
Legislation support these 
programs being shut down, what 

1223
01:00:02,100 --> 01:00:04,100
are those steps? 
And then the second question 

1224
01:00:04,100 --> 01:00:06,900
will be how do you support a 
Survivor or someone that's 

1225
01:00:06,900 --> 01:00:08,500
currently? 
In one of these programs. 

1226
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,500
So I think the first step is, 
you know, obviously spread 

1227
01:00:11,500 --> 01:00:15,000
awareness Word of Mouth. 
Yeah, that goes a long ways 

1228
01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:18,000
pertaining to something you 
mentioned earlier. 

1229
01:00:18,300 --> 01:00:21,500
You know, if you see that your 
friend has been sent away your 

1230
01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:23,100
friend disappears, in the middle
of night, you find out that 

1231
01:00:23,100 --> 01:00:25,700
they're at a program, find out 
what the program is. 

1232
01:00:25,900 --> 01:00:30,000
Contact a group like Breaky code
silence or I Kappa find one of 

1233
01:00:30,008 --> 01:00:33,300
these anti troubled teen 
industry, advocacy groups, reach

1234
01:00:33,300 --> 01:00:35,500
out to them. 
Our group provides things that 

1235
01:00:35,500 --> 01:00:38,700
we call facility reports. 
We are Happy to provide all 

1236
01:00:38,700 --> 01:00:42,900
research that we have. 
That shows abuse cases, lawsuits

1237
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,300
program, history, staff Supply, 
that to the relevant people. 

1238
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,200
If you want to get involved, if 
you go to the breaking code 

1239
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,600
silence website, we have buttons
where you can apply to become a 

1240
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:55,400
volunteer, we have numerous 
things, we need. 

1241
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:57,900
Researchers that go in and dive 
and find out the information on 

1242
01:00:57,900 --> 01:01:00,800
these programs. 
We have an active legislation 

1243
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,900
team that is working on not only
Federal legislation but State 

1244
01:01:03,900 --> 01:01:06,300
legislation. 
Anyone who's interested in that 

1245
01:01:06,300 --> 01:01:08,500
were more than willing to help. 
Help them learn the process. 

1246
01:01:08,900 --> 01:01:12,500
He have research grants that 
were working with. 

1247
01:01:12,500 --> 01:01:15,900
We have a Publications Division.
If you're a writer and you've 

1248
01:01:15,900 --> 01:01:18,300
experienced a facility like 
this, or you have a friend and 

1249
01:01:18,300 --> 01:01:21,900
you want to talk about that, we 
have a realm for you to voice 

1250
01:01:21,900 --> 01:01:24,800
that story. 
We're open to anything when it 

1251
01:01:24,808 --> 01:01:27,100
comes to just spreading the word
and helping that get out there. 

1252
01:01:27,700 --> 01:01:29,700
When it comes to helping 
survivors. 

1253
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,900
While we are not a support 
group, we cannot provide 

1254
01:01:32,900 --> 01:01:35,900
therapies. 
We cannot provide You know legal

1255
01:01:35,900 --> 01:01:38,500
recourses and things like that, 
but were there. 

1256
01:01:39,100 --> 01:01:42,500
Yeah, most of us have this 
common shared experience. 

1257
01:01:43,100 --> 01:01:44,900
We're there to talk. 
Were there to listen. 

1258
01:01:44,900 --> 01:01:48,000
We're there to be a shoulder for
someone when they need it. 

1259
01:01:48,100 --> 01:01:50,900
We're a group of the way, the 
organization exists. 

1260
01:01:50,900 --> 01:01:56,600
Right now, I am on the phone 
with my team Daley, and we will 

1261
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,900
be business business business 
and then something comes up and 

1262
01:01:59,900 --> 01:02:02,300
everything gets put to a stop. 
So we can listen to someone 

1263
01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:04,200
because all of a sudden, 
something happened. 

1264
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,500
Something Reconnected they 
reconnected to something, they 

1265
01:02:07,500 --> 01:02:09,700
were triggered by something were
there to listen and support. 

1266
01:02:09,700 --> 01:02:12,500
We're there to help point you 
towards resources. 

1267
01:02:12,500 --> 01:02:14,300
You know. 
Well we cannot necessarily 

1268
01:02:14,300 --> 01:02:17,500
recommend therapists. 
We cannot recommend lawyers or 

1269
01:02:17,508 --> 01:02:20,600
anything like that. 
We do try to help you locate 

1270
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:23,100
that right person. 
We try to teach about the 

1271
01:02:23,100 --> 01:02:26,700
different levels of therapy, 
what therapies are proven and 

1272
01:02:26,707 --> 01:02:30,000
evidence-based that do work. 
It's so important and even if 

1273
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,800
being a support system, like you
mentioned, these programs are so

1274
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:37,200
isolated being one of As friends
from home, that I was able to 

1275
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,100
talk to that, you mentioned, 
being able to see being able to 

1276
01:02:40,100 --> 01:02:44,200
connect with that person and be.
That one thing tying them back 

1277
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,500
to this life outside. 
This super isolated environment 

1278
01:02:47,500 --> 01:02:50,900
can be so helpful and so 
beneficial and was such a 

1279
01:02:50,900 --> 01:02:53,500
Lifeline for me when I was 
navigating this and made that 

1280
01:02:53,500 --> 01:02:56,600
transition easier because it 
didn't feel like I was leaving 

1281
01:02:56,600 --> 01:02:59,600
this program and had no one that
even knew what I had gone 

1282
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,600
through. 
Well and I think I think that's 

1283
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:07,100
the major key thing is that that
time of leaving the program and 

1284
01:03:07,100 --> 01:03:12,500
readjusting to what actual 
normal society is is one of the 

1285
01:03:12,500 --> 01:03:15,100
hardest things for any child 
that leaves a program. 

1286
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,300
No matter what age, I almost 
like to think of it as there's a

1287
01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:21,100
25 year Gap where that 
transitional period happens. 

1288
01:03:21,300 --> 01:03:24,300
Yeah like it's not an immediate 
transition because you're 

1289
01:03:24,300 --> 01:03:26,600
starting to question things, 
you're letting teenagers who 

1290
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:30,000
have had no sense of Freedom out
in the world and you're dropping

1291
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,100
them off. 
You know, some of them I think I

1292
01:03:33,100 --> 01:03:34,900
was out of the program a month 
before I went to college. 

1293
01:03:35,100 --> 01:03:38,200
Each, it's crazy and all of a 
sudden it's going oh there's 

1294
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,000
fraternity parties. 
There's drugs. 

1295
01:03:40,100 --> 01:03:41,400
What's this? 
What's that? 

1296
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,700
I never had those experiences to
tell me what was right and what 

1297
01:03:44,700 --> 01:03:46,200
was wrong and you have to learn 
in it. 

1298
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:47,900
And sometimes as I said it's 225
years. 

1299
01:03:47,900 --> 01:03:51,300
Sometimes it's 30 years for 
people and we're really making 

1300
01:03:51,300 --> 01:03:55,100
that effort to try to find out 
how we can be a more support in 

1301
01:03:55,100 --> 01:03:57,500
that transitional period. 
How do we help people? 

1302
01:03:57,500 --> 01:03:58,900
Is it just to be there to 
listen? 

1303
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,600
Is it to find out what the 
statute limitations is for them 

1304
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,200
to get Justice? 
You know, how do we little 

1305
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,100
things like pop culture? 
Someone went into a program a 

1306
01:04:10,100 --> 01:04:13,500
year two years ago like Trends 
Tick Tock the music. 

1307
01:04:13,500 --> 01:04:16,400
People are listening to the 
shows that they're watching the 

1308
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:17,800
language. 
They're using these things 

1309
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,200
they've been completely isolated
from. 

1310
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:23,500
I was in an all-girls program, 
your ability to date and have 

1311
01:04:23,500 --> 01:04:25,800
relationships. 
You would see a lot of different

1312
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:28,500
ways that girls reacted, after 
coming out of the program, 

1313
01:04:28,700 --> 01:04:33,400
education-wise I was at a huge 
deficit with what I had learned 

1314
01:04:33,500 --> 01:04:35,800
in Montana. 
Versus what was actually going 

1315
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,400
on at a normal public high 
school. 

1316
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,800
And I know, I mean, I think I 
failed, I was in college and I 

1317
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,800
feel pre college algebra 3 times
because my algebra teacher had 

1318
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:46,800
no clue what he was. 
Teaching me with Calculus. 

1319
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,800
We watched no wedding videos 
every single day, like the test 

1320
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,000
were open note like you learn 
nothing but you got the great. 

1321
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,800
It's like, the craziest thing to
adjust from and it takes time. 

1322
01:04:57,300 --> 01:05:00,700
Yeah, I just, I'm so grateful 
for you for giving so much 

1323
01:05:00,700 --> 01:05:04,400
insight into this, and so much 
valuable information on how 

1324
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,800
parents Parents can look for 
these programs and make sure 

1325
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,000
that they are sending their kids
to reputable evidence, based 

1326
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,800
mental health care if that's 
what's needed. 

1327
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,200
And for teens, what? 
To be aware of how to support 

1328
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,300
people. 
And yeah, I'm just so grateful 

1329
01:05:17,300 --> 01:05:20,100
for you for opening up and 
having this conversation with 

1330
01:05:20,100 --> 01:05:21,800
me. 
No, no, I appreciate you having 

1331
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:23,300
me on it. 
I think the one thing I can say 

1332
01:05:23,300 --> 01:05:27,200
is that for any parent that 
listens to this the one thing 

1333
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:29,100
that we advocate for his keep 
the family together. 

1334
01:05:29,500 --> 01:05:31,600
Yeah. 
You're going to see probably 

1335
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:34,500
more issues of attributes in a 
way in. 

1336
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:38,300
Dissociation from the family 
afterwards and stronger 

1337
01:05:38,900 --> 01:05:41,800
divisions between the family. 
Try to find those therapies that

1338
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,700
you all can do together as 
parents with your children. 

1339
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,000
There's wraparound Services. 
There's different things. 

1340
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,900
If your child has diagnosis, is 
you could take the same therapy 

1341
01:05:49,900 --> 01:05:52,400
as your child does to learn 
about those diagnosis and how to

1342
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,100
better communicate. 
I'll just do your best to keep 

1343
01:05:55,100 --> 01:05:56,900
the family together, but I 
appreciate you bringing 

1344
01:05:56,900 --> 01:05:59,800
awareness to this because there 
are Realms where people talk 

1345
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:02,100
about it, but there's not very 
many Realms like this where 

1346
01:06:02,100 --> 01:06:05,300
people actually get to have a 
discussion on Deeper level so I 

1347
01:06:05,308 --> 01:06:07,200
appreciate everything you're 
doing to focus on this. 

1348
01:06:07,500 --> 01:06:10,300
Yeah, the last question I want 
to leave listeners with is. 

1349
01:06:10,300 --> 01:06:12,900
If there was one thing that you 
wish the general public knew 

1350
01:06:12,900 --> 01:06:14,400
about the troubled teen 
industry. 

1351
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:16,200
What would that be? 
That's a hard question. 

1352
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,000
Yeah. 
You know, I think that I would 

1353
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:20,600
leave the general public with a 
knowledge of that. 

1354
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:26,300
This isn't just surface-level 
things, this is 10 miles wide 10

1355
01:06:26,300 --> 01:06:29,800
miles deep. 
It touches facets of life that 

1356
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,400
people don't understand. 
It does. 

1357
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:33,200
And it affects more people than 
you. 

1358
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:35,400
Think it does you probably come 
across Cross more people in your

1359
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,300
life that have been affected by 
this industry than you ever 

1360
01:06:37,300 --> 01:06:40,600
realized. 
And just to start taking notice,

1361
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,200
and to be aware that there are 
people out there harming 

1362
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:47,500
children to make money. 
Yeah, it's so true and the more 

1363
01:06:47,500 --> 01:06:49,700
you're aware of it. 
The more you realize, how much 

1364
01:06:49,700 --> 01:06:52,300
it is around you. 
Because again, so many teens 

1365
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:55,200
have experienced this or know 
someone that has experienced 

1366
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:57,700
this because the Teen Mental 
Health crisis is rampant, 

1367
01:06:57,700 --> 01:07:00,100
depression and anxiety rates are
higher than they ever have been 

1368
01:07:00,100 --> 01:07:02,600
before. 
And I think, because of that 

1369
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:06,000
increase, we saw during covid-19
Can you increase in these 

1370
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:09,700
programs and, and teens, and 
them as a response to that, as 

1371
01:07:09,700 --> 01:07:12,900
Parents try and get their teens 
help in whatever ways, they know

1372
01:07:12,900 --> 01:07:14,800
how covid. 
Definitely had an effect with 

1373
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:17,200
how parents responded to their 
teenagers and started looking 

1374
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:19,900
for help. 
Even like you talked about an 

1375
01:07:19,900 --> 01:07:23,300
absence of medical care or 
medical neglect with covid. 

1376
01:07:23,300 --> 01:07:26,500
I think that just got so much 
worse because they're dead, you 

1377
01:07:26,500 --> 01:07:29,200
were so isolated. 
There was no reason, no 

1378
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:33,000
communication between patients 
and parents of this person has 

1379
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,800
covid or they might have And 
also, these programs are a lot 

1380
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:38,600
of the times and pretty 
conservative States. 

1381
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:42,300
So vaccinations and masks and 
all these things that maybe you 

1382
01:07:42,300 --> 01:07:44,000
might have a choice about at 
home. 

1383
01:07:44,100 --> 01:07:46,200
You might not necessarily have 
it your program. 

1384
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:50,000
So it just brings exactly 
another layer into this mess. 

1385
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,500
I completely agree with you. 
Yeah, all right. 

1386
01:07:52,500 --> 01:07:55,600
Well, for listeners to continue 
to learn about breaking, code 

1387
01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:57,700
silence, and learn about what 
you guys are doing. 

1388
01:07:57,700 --> 01:08:00,200
Where can they find you? 
You can find us at 

1389
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:05,400
www.breakupbrad.com dot org and 
then on Social media, we're 

1390
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:07,600
going to be breaking code 
silence or breaking code side. 

1391
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:11,300
One, that's just breaking code. 
Si1 you can find us on all those

1392
01:08:11,300 --> 01:08:13,600
different platforms. 
We do have a Facebook pages 

1393
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:16,700
Instagrams. 
There is a YouTube that we're 

1394
01:08:16,700 --> 01:08:19,100
revamping. 
Also if you just type in 

1395
01:08:19,100 --> 01:08:21,500
Breaking code silence on 
something, as simple as 

1396
01:08:21,500 --> 01:08:25,300
Tick-Tock you were going to be 
exposed to a whole new realm of 

1397
01:08:25,300 --> 01:08:27,800
personal stories and those that 
are out there advocating. 

1398
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,500
Yeah, and if you remember, one 
thing from this conversation, if

1399
01:08:31,500 --> 01:08:33,600
you ever hear of a program 
you're ever considering or 

1400
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,700
program, a friend, is going all 
you have to Google is the 

1401
01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:39,800
program name, Survivor stories 
or the program name breaking 

1402
01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:41,700
codes islets. 
And you will very quickly 

1403
01:08:41,899 --> 01:08:45,399
realize if it's a troubled teen 
Industry Program or not. 

1404
01:08:45,500 --> 01:08:48,899
And if you don't see anything 
popping up, we do have a place 

1405
01:08:48,899 --> 01:08:52,000
on our website where you can 
report a facility and it gives 

1406
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,100
you all the information if you 
are a survivor of a program. 

1407
01:08:55,100 --> 01:08:57,600
If you're a parent who has 
concerns or friend, we do have 

1408
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:00,600
places for you to report and 
also gives you all the direct 

1409
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:02,000
links. 
You need to report them to the 

1410
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,200
state to report medical license.
Anything like that. 

1411
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:09,399
So there are those resources 
available with all the different

1412
01:09:09,399 --> 01:09:10,800
advocacy organizations. 
All of us. 

1413
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:13,800
Have those awesome? 
Well, thank you so much Bobby. 

1414
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:15,899
Again, I'm so glad we got to do 
this and I know this 

1415
01:09:15,899 --> 01:09:17,800
conversation is going to help so
many people. 

1416
01:09:18,500 --> 01:09:21,399
Thank you for having me. 
Thank you so much for listening 

1417
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:23,300
to this week's episode of she 
persisted. 

1418
01:09:23,300 --> 01:09:25,700
If you enjoyed, make sure to 
share with a friend or family 

1419
01:09:25,700 --> 01:09:27,899
member. 
It really helps out the podcast 

1420
01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,000
and if you haven't already leave
a review on Apple podcasts or 

1421
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,300
Spotify, you can also make sure 
to follow along at a cheaper 

1422
01:09:34,300 --> 01:09:35,700
solution. 
I stood podcast on both 

1423
01:09:35,700 --> 01:09:38,399
Instagram and Tick-Tock and 
check out all the bonus 

1424
01:09:38,399 --> 01:09:41,300
resources content and 
information on my website. 

1425
01:09:41,300 --> 01:09:44,600
She persisted podcast.com, 
thanks for supporting, keep 

1426
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:46,500
persisting and I'll see you next
week. 

1427
01:09:47,100 --> 01:09:49,700
Thank you so much for listening 
to this week's episode of she 

1428
01:09:49,700 --> 01:09:51,600
persisted. 
If you enjoyed, make sure to 

1429
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,200
share with a friend or family 
member. 

1430
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,400
It really helps out the podcast 
and if you haven't already leave

1431
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,800
a review on Apple podcast or 
Spotify, you can also make sure 

1432
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,700
to follow along at at she 
persisted podcast on both 

1433
01:10:02,700 --> 01:10:04,400
Instagram and Tick-Tock and 
check out. 

1434
01:10:04,500 --> 01:10:07,600
Out all the bonus resources 
content and information on my 

1435
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,100
website. 
She persisted podcast.com, 

1436
01:10:10,500 --> 01:10:13,000
thanks for supporting, keep 
persisting and I'll see you next

1437
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:13,500
week.