Welcome to she persisted I'm your host Sadie Saxton a 19 year
old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the University of
Pennsylvania. She persisted is the Teen Mental
Health podcast made for teenagers by a team in each
episode. I'll bring you authentic
accessible and relatable conversations about every aspect
of mental Wellness. You can expect evidence-based,
Tina, proof resources, coping skills, including lots of DBT,
insights and education. In each piece of content, you
consume, she persisted It offers you a safe space to feel
validated and understood in your struggle.
While encouraging you to take ownership of your journey and
build your life worth living. So, let's dive in this week on.
She persisted for having young women, young men children,
because we are seeing programs that take children that are
younger than the teenage level that are forcibly removed from
their home. They don't know where they're
going, they don't know what playing they're getting on.
There is no information generally, they're going to be
handcuffed hours that time. Died.
And these programs promote will transport them.
If they resist us and we know there's an issue at the airport
will transport them until they give in and then we'll jump on
an airplane. Quick disclaimer all statements
in this episode. Our opinions, the purpose of
this episode is not to Target our attack, certain
organizations and individuals. But rather ask the question.
How can we ensure ethical evidence-based?
Compassionate mental health treatment for all teenagers with
that? Let's dive in.
Hello, hello, and welcome back to she persisted.
I'm so excited. You're here.
Today we are talking about something.
That is very important, very near and dear to my heart which
is breaking code silence and the work, they are doing to increase
regulation and the troubled teen industry.
I've done a handful of episodes on this in the past and I'll
make sure to link them in the show notes that if this Sparks
your interest, you can kind of do a deep dive into these
different episodes here, different people's stories,
you're my experience, Etc. And if you're also like, what is
the troubled teen industry? I will also explain that in this
introduction, so don't worry. But today's guest is Bobby cook.
He is On the breaking code silence team.
He gives a great explanation of what he does.
What breaking code silence? Does their mission and also his
background and the troubled teen industry, which was really just
amazing to hear. And to have him share his story
and why? He's so passionate about this as
conversation is so educational and enlightening, since my
experience at a therapeutic boarding school and kind of
being somewhat involved in this world and being aware of what
bringing cosines is doing. And all of the work that still
needs to be done to increased regulation of these programs.
I've wanted to have someone from breaking code silence on, she
persisted because they are at the Forefront of this work.
They are so educated and insightful.
So I emailed they said yes I am so excited that we got to do
this interview and have this conversation.
As we talk about the history of the troubled teen industry, we
talked about not sap. We talked about breaking code
silence next steps, anything and everything relating to that.
But I also wanted to add here that a great place to start with
kind of learning about this is the Paris Hilton documentary,
it's called This is Paris. And in He documentary, she talks
a lot about her personal experiences in the troubled teen
industry. She talks about some programs
that she went to and you see her journey to work with survivors
to get her program. Shut down, unfortunately still
open but steps are being made and they just did an amazing job
illustrating. What these programs are like how
they can impact and affect so many teens.
And I think that's just a great place to start if you are going
into this blind. So, I'll link that in the show
notes, but to give you some stats and information about the
troubled teen industry and breaking code silence before we
start. So the troubled teen industry
specifically in the u.s. is a network of privately owned
programs. They're often Wilderness based
Residential Treatment Centers, therapeutic boarding, schools,
group, homes boot camps and faith-based Academy.
It's that our marketing behavioral change and mental
health treatments to parents. And the difference between these
programs in the troubled, Industry and programs like three
East McLean Hospital, which is where I went to residential, and
I speak. So, highly of is the lack of
Regulation and the lack of evidence based treatment and the
lack of communication. And also the very much so
illegal and unethical things that happen here at these
programs, which we will dive into in this conversation, do
you want to add at the beginning of this episode that mental
health treatment and Mental Health Care works?
It changed my life. It saved my life.
I am so turned. Really grateful to three East
and McLean Hospital, and the wonderful collection of doctors
and therapists and team members there for using evidence-based.
Dialectical behavioral treatment for working collaboratively for
involving my family, and forgetting me, the help and
support that, I needed when I was truly at my lowest point
therapy works mental health treatment works, it's an amazing
resource and that's why it's so important to regulate these
programs. Because the last thing you want
is, when you finally get the strength and the Courage to ask
for help and then you start to pursue that help when you are
met with unethical ineffective and sometimes more traumatizing
treatment, you just go in the opposite direction.
And so heartbreaking to know that people are at their lowest
point. They're just looking for support
and help and they're met with the opposite.
And another caveat that I want to add here.
Is that. What's so, again, heartbreaking
about this is a lot of the times parents don't realize until
after the fact, these programs Our expert marketers, they're
saying exactly what parents want to hear, which is that we can
help your child. We can fix your child, they will
stop suffering, they will stop being in pain and that's all a
parent wants to hear because it's their worst nightmare to
see their child struggling in such a big way.
And so after they're like, yes, please help me.
This is amazing. Your child is then put into
these troubled teen programs. And one of the signs of these is
a huge lack of communication between the parents and the
child. So, that line of communication
is Pop out and then it becomes very difficult for the teen to
be able to say something isn't, right?
So those caveats which is one that mental health treatment is
so important and effective and amazing which is why there
should be a high standard of care for all of these programs.
So that when you pursue mental health care and pursue support,
you get support and you get evidence based care, which is
what you should be getting in the first place.
And second, this conversation is not directed at parents who are
just doing their best and trying to get their child support
again. This is about increasing
regulation, education around troubled teen industry programs.
So numbers on the troubled teen industry, which again we talked
about is therapeutic boarding schools, Wilderness programs,
faith-based Academy's, behavioral change programs Etc.
There are over 6,000 under regulated congregate care
facilities, just in the United States.
There's over twenty three billion dollars of Public
Funding. Spent on troubled families.
There's over 200,000 children and teens placed in congregate
care and Lee, not all time annually and there's zero
Federal legislation, overseeing. These troubled teen industry
programs. Those are some really shocking
statistics to hear because it doesn't seem right.
That 200,000 youth are put into 6,000 programs that are funded
with 24 billion dollars and there's your federal
legislation, but that is the facts.
That is the statistics here. So to kind of clarify, what
makes a troubled, teen Industry Program.
Harmful, there's a very extensive list on the breaking
code silence website, which I'll link in the show notes, but to
give you a couple of ideas and red flags to be aware of, and if
you yourself have been in treatment in your like, oh my
gosh. All of those were at my program,
kind of recognizing. And if maybe your parent looking
at programs, just things to be aware of.
So, the program recommends involuntary admittance, which
means that the teen is put into this program without consent
without permission. They are signed up without any
autonomy in the process. And as I've shared many times, a
huge part of my journey was when I got to Three East at McLean.
Hospital in the asked me, do you want to be here?
They made it very clear. That three.
He's was a voluntary program and that it only works, if you are
an active participant and you want to be there and you're
motivated to get better and improve and you trust your care
providers, you want to be involved in the process and
pinpoint that as the moment that everything shifted for me
because I went from going through the motions of being in
therapy and outpatient programs but not believing, that change
was truly possible, and not trusting people to help me.
To deciding that I wanted to get better, trusting others, and
then allowing the process to happen, and that was a lot of
difficult. Tough work that went in there.
So, that's kind of the difference between an
involuntary admit it where your parents sign somewhere on a
dotted line. And you don't have any role in
the process. Verse says being very involved
and having your autonomy over yourself and your health care.
The second one to mention is that the program recommends
forceful Transportation or escort services, This was
referred to during my time in the troubled teen industry as
gooning and I've never been goon to thank goodness.
I can't even imagine how traumatizing of an experience
this is but basically your parents are your Guardians
higher Transport service and you're woken up in the middle of
the night to kind of catch you off guard and you're physically
transported from your home to the program.
And if anyone's woken up in the middle of the night by strangers
in your room, many of these teens are like I'm being
kidnapped and being Taken and you're screaming and crying for
help, and most of these transport programs legally,
require a parent to watch. So, you're watching your
parents. Watch you get kidnapped and
being taken across the country, or to a different state without
knowing where you're going. And again, having no autonomy or
control over this process. A third thing is that the
program is not state-licensed accredited for at least three
components, which is educational mental, and Behavioral Health
and residential really great example of this.
And at the end of the central, kind of give a really brief
overview of my Through the trouble.
And teen industry is basic educational things at the
therapeutic boarding school, I went to one of the reasons why
it was so attractive to my parents and me as well, is that
I could continue. My education pursuing mental
health, treatment comes at a huge cost especially if you are
a teen and you're supposed to be in high school or college and so
to be able to go to school will also getting Mental Health Care
was a great idea but because the school really wasn't adequately
accredited, my science teacher since my sophomore year of high
school didn't have a teaching license.
His only experience was, he was a pre-med student in college
before he dropped out and joined the forestry service.
And so if there's a red flag there and the educational
sector, it's only an indicator of how on a crowded Ed and
unlicensed other areas within the program can be the fourth
one, is that the program uses a contract with terms that ask the
parent to sign over their custodial rights or agree to not
report child abuse. So what that means is that when
you enter these programs, your parents give up their custody of
you. And this was something that Went
to me, when I went to the therapeutic boarding school in
Montana. When I started my 14 months,
they're my parents had to sign a document.
You could it enter the program without doing this, where they
signed over 51% of my custody. So my parents weren't
responsible for me. This corporate organization was
actually, I think the person that legally had responsibility
for me, was The Tech Guy on campus and so like I just shared
my experience at McLean, Hospital was amazing and they
never wired my parents to sign over 51% of custody.
I had much more intensive and extensive Mental Health Care
MacLean and that was never something that was required.
That is not a standard of care for medical care for mental
health. Care to give up custody and give
it to a program. The reason that we do this is
that they can make all decisions on your behalf.
You don't have to give consent for things they can give consent
and so that is a huge red flag. No program should be requiring
that because it's not a standard of care and it's not necessary.
Next one is that the program employs mostly uneducated or
under trained staff to handle the majority of the day-to-day
care of the children? While there might be one or two
therapists on staff your child or you or probably only seeing
that therapist, what a couple hours a week.
My experience was that 10 12 hours a day, the entire weekend.
Over night. I was with high school educated
staff members with no experience in the mental health field and
so when we weren't in a crisis, when we were really struggling
when there were really real Behavior, Ural challenges
occurring in these teens the people that were handling, it
were under educated and under trained staff members.
And that again is a huge difference at McClain people
that are teaching skills and that our day-to-day people that
you are interacting with most of these adults were pursuing a
degree in Psychology potentially, they had other
experience in the mental health industry.
They were extensively trained, they knew DBT like the back of
their hands so that they were Trained and equipped to handle a
crisis mode. There was always therapist on
staff therapist where they're 10 to 12 hours a day meeting with
other patients. Doing other things.
Really a huge 180 from the therapeutic boarding school.
The second to last thing that I'll mention it again.
There's like 15 20, maybe even 30 of these, that you can look
in depth on the breaking code silence website, but the second
to last one is that the program only allows monitored or limited
telephone communication with parents.
When I was at this therapeutic boarding school, you were not
able to have phone calls. With your parents until you
reach the third level. And for most people that was
like three to six months of being at this program.
And when you did earn that privilege the privilege that you
are earning was a five-minute supervised call.
Once a week, this is hugely abnormal for mental health care.
Whenever I was in a psychiatric ward.
Whenever I was at McClain there is open access to phones.
Of course there are certain limitations sometimes like when
I was at MacLean we created an approved list and I was involved
in that process it was like these Friends that are really
healthy and supportive and that I will call that.
I know will be effective in my treatment journey and these are
family members and this is my parents number and I could call
them as many times a day as I wanted.
And of course, they're like, Sadie were not going to answer
if you call is 12 times a day, normal parents, I don't blame
you but that was an option. I was allowed to call them in
the Adolescent. Psych units in California at
least when I went to there was open.
Phone access anytime you wanted to call.
Someone use went to the phone. You dialed the number having
extremely limited. We're talking five minutes a
week. One.
It's a week supervised or maybe an hour once a week with a
therapist present doing family therapy, that is not normal.
And that is not a standard of care, especially for teens, when
family Dynamics and family relationships are of the utmost
importance. The last one that I'll mention
is that the duration of the internment at the program, is
really ambiguous. There's an indefinite
detainment. I remember at three, he's the
guidelines were very set forth. There was a minimum stay, which
I think was 28 days. There was a standard length of
Day, which is four to six weeks. And I remember, even when I was
there, I think they adjusted it because they were like, you know
what, we're finding that patients are having more
effective outcomes from saying six to eight weeks rather than
four to six. And if they adjusted that based
on what they were seeing in Montana, this length of stay was
literally all over the place. I remember there were girls that
were there for 11 months. There were girls that were there
for three years. There were girls that were
getting pulled left and right. And we're there for only a
couple weeks or a couple of months.
There really was not a nerd of care.
And I remember that when I went into the Montana program, we
were like, maybe best case scenario.
It would be possible for me to go home and do my spring of
sophomore year at home. And then it was like, okay, we
knew that was getting our hopes up.
So end of sophomore year, 100%, I'll be at home, and then it
ended up being like, I barely got home for junior year.
They didn't want me to leave my parents.
Like, we're done. We're leaving.
This is the end of this experience.
She is good. She is fine.
She's coming home. So that extreme flexibility.
Of people's length of stay being like, six months, eight months
to three years is not a standard of care.
And you guys have heard me say this before, but whatever I'm
like, is mental health stigma coming into play here.
I always check these things again, standards of care for
physical health, where I check, how I would think about a
physical health problem versus a mental health problem.
If you were going to do physical therapy for a broken leg, they
would give you an estimate of time that you would be doing the
physical therapy program for. Yes, maybe it would adjust based
on how you were performing, or How you were healing, but there
would be an estimated length of stay, not, maybe eight months,
maybe three years, right? And there are certain markers,
your meeting. You know what, you have to do to
leave. That was not the case at the
therapeutic boarding school at I was at.
So again, so many red flags and these programs and you can look
at the full list but just some basic ones to be aware of and to
kind of again clarify, what these programs are like.
So the last thing that I want to mention here now that we kind of
have an understanding of what exactly that Lay the troubled
teen industry as some stats. What to look for.
What makes these programs part of the troubled teen industry.
We've emphasized that this is not a reflection of parents is a
reflection of the industry. We've emphasized that Mental
Health Care works. It's so important.
And that's why getting these programs accredited and
overseeing is so crucial. I'm going to talk very vaguely
about my experience to give a little bit of a foundation and
also explain why I'm so passionate about this.
So I went to a therapeutic boarding school after my 14
weeks at McClain, I was there for 14 months.
And like I mentioned there was a many things that were not up to
standard of what things should be.
Like at a mental health facility, the vast majority of
Staff members that we were interacting with only required a
high school education and no, mental, health experienced staff
were all trained on site which doesn't necessarily have to be a
bad thing. I believe, McClane also trained
their team members on site, but there's a difference between
training on-site at the number one, mental hospital in the
world. That's a Harvard accredited.
Med school and has like 100 years of experience and
evidence-based. Practices that you're using and
training on site with people whose only experiences at that
program. Have no further education and
again, no other experience within the mental health field,
so you can kind of see the difference between training
on-site there. But the vast majority of people,
we were interacting with were under educated and undertrained.
During my time there, there was no psychologist on staff.
There is a psychiatrist who would come every month, maybe
every three months to check in with patients, but there wasn't
a psychiatrist on staff. It was more like he came and
visited patients again, very different from McClain where I
think there was like three or four psychiatrists on staff that
you were meeting with on almost a weekly basis to my knowledge.
Now there are no psychologist on staff.
They have people that are doing therapy with a masters of
education and no degree in Psychology.
They were not sticking to an evidence-based therapy modality.
Again, I'm claiming use dialectical behavioral therapy
which has dozens of studies supporting that there was no
therapeutic modality being used. You kind of Shut up for a
session, you talked about things, and hopefully, things
shifted the contact with parents and teens with another huge red
flag at the therapeutic boarding school.
I went to again at the beginning.
There was no contact you, then could fax letters twice a week
to your parents. You had supervised family
therapy calls with a therapist once a week since not all teens
there had that. But most of them did.
And then once you were there for about three to six months, you
earn the privilege of a supervised phone call once a
week, it wasn't until you were probably We in your last month
of the program that you earn the privilege of having your own
phone. Again, the academics were really
under regulated. I remember part of the credits
that I received in high school, were me, literally teaching
myself on a computer, Spanish, and history, and all of these
things. And so, if that's what the
academic standards are, and this is a therapeutic boarding
school, imagine what the stands were for therapy and Mental
Health Care. Needless to say, that experience
was not the greatest for me and I want to emphasize that it was
one of the better programs in Industry.
My parents worked so many therapeutic boarding schools to
try and figure out what my next step would be from McClain.
And that was the best one that they found.
And to know that the best one that was out there with still
not held to the standard of care that all programs should be.
Just breaks my heart to think about what other teams are going
through. What I know they were going
through because it's so many teens at this.
Therapeutic boarding school came straight from Wilderness therapy
and we've done opposites on that in the past, which I'll link in
the show notes, but I really want to emphasize there.
That this is one of the good programs, so that speaks volumes
to what these other programs have occurring and Bobby talks
about this, a lot in this episode's there.
Many children. Many teens have died in these
programs. There are many, many long-term
health issues. There are people that are being
physically restrained. Put an isolation starved.
These programs are really really terrible.
And so across the board, we need better regulation and I'm
grateful that my experience was one that was emotionally a
little bit difficult to navigate.
But my physical health was okay, and I made it to the other side.
And so with that kind of foundation established, I hope
you guys learn a lot from this episode.
I hope you find it valuable and informative and educational and
it's something that I really proud of.
And it's a cause that I am very passionate about.
So with that, let's hear from Bobby about all things.
Troubled, teen industry and breaking code silence.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
Bobby, I'm so excited to have you on the show.
Oh, and just to be able to pick your brain about this, super
important topic and provide a lot of answers for listeners
that I can only give so much advice on.
Thank you for having me. I, it's an honor to be able to
speak out about something like this.
Yeah. So to start, can you tell me a
little bit about your background and how you started working with
breaking code silence? Yeah.
So in 2002, I was sent to a facility in Dahlonega, Georgia
called Hidden Lake Academy. I was standard teenager who had
some Family issues and I had skipped a couple classes and the
school that I was attending at the time had recommended that I
get psychological evaluation and that turned into recommending an
educational consultant which then turned into me being
recommended to a program and I was actually I ended up at the
program for twenty nine months. Wow.
And so after I left that program I spent a lot of years with
people. Not believing me about my story
and about the things that happened.
And within those facilities, the traumas that we experienced the
abuse that we saw and experienced ourselves.
And about two years ago, a close personal friend of mine who I
was at the program was introduced me to a group called
breaking code silence. And I join that organization
with the mission to protect children from ever having to
experience anything that I experienced as a survivor of a
program. And to really make sure that
there was legislation and laws passed, that really promoted
youth Bill of Rights and protecting children from These
atrocities. And so that my role just grew
the organization. And I'm now currently the CEO
and executive director with breaking code silence and trying
to promote that mission and really protect those children.
You guys are doing such important work, and whatever.
I get questions about this, my first direction is go to the
website, look at what you guys are doing because it's again,
such important work and so few people know about it which is
crazy and we'll kind of touch on the numbers there but so many
teens have been affected by these programs.
So many teens have gone through Ooh, them or have had a friend
experience them. So it's a very widespread issue
and yet we're not having this conversation as much as we
should be. I completely agree with you.
Yeah, so you mentioned a couple of terms that I want to clarify
for listeners. The first one very basically is
the troubled teen industry for listeners that aren't familiar
with that. And they know that Mental Health
Care programs are out there. What exactly is the troubled
teen industry? How did it start?
And how do you kind of distinguish a troubled teen
program from other? Blessed, mental health care.
So the troubled teen industry is a collective of schools and
programs across the country, across the world nowadays.
Yeah, that promote mental health, treatment for children
and teens. They also promote behavior
modification therapies that are supposed to help a family with a
team that is struggling different Realms.
It could be something such as mental health.
It could be something in the realm of Behavioral issues such
as sexual, proclivities smoking weed.
Different Realms, where parents don't understand how to help
their children. Correct.
Those actions or get their children to help that they're
looking for. And really, this has been around
a lot longer than people realize it has been.
We're finding research that shows that there's been
facilities like this since the 1800s.
Wow. But what we're really
discovering was there was a group that came out of
California in the 1960s and 70s called synanon and it was
supposed to be a take on a a, and a all those different drug
rehabilitation. Offerings that were out there
and what they did was they created new kinds of therapy and
that group really kind of exploded into what is now being
called one of the most dangerous cult.
So there's ever walked the face of the North America and a lot
of the people took those ideals and they decided that, hey,
these modules really could benefit children and we saw
programs, like straight Incorporated come out.
And these were really facilities were children were placed in
them with no realm of contact to the outside and we're heavily We
monitored and started to become abusive.
We were, we're seeing isolation and restraint through the
history of these programs, the were seeing and neglect of
medical care and basic necessities.
We're seeing families torn apart.
We're seeing children verbally and physically attacking each
other. In therapy sessions to break
each other down, to remold them into a certain fashion and this
industry really took off with those bass ideals of what sinan
on had and there was a group called si do SI D'you that spun
off of that, they started opening up high schools and then
a group came along called wasp, the worldwide Association
specialty programs, and they started taking those ideals and
reforming them in the ways they sell appropriate.
And this just kind of massively spread across the world.
I mean, we're seeing facilities in Europe and Jamaica and Mexico
at a friend in Brazil like South America.
Yeah. Yeah.
It just, it really took off. Off with these weird.
Ideations that these groups had about how you could change a
child's behavior and it really LED down to that.
As I said that ideal of breaking someone down to a point that you
could rebuild them in a fashion that you felt appropriate,
parents are excluded from those conversations.
Love the time parents understand the therapies that are used
those tactics as I said, such as isolation and restraints and
really this industry started profiting off of parents who
were unaware. Yeah and parents who were so
desperate to find help for their children, that they would do
anything at any cost and it just continued to grow and grow.
And I mean, we're seeing you, but the history of this we're
seeing programs opening monthly still across the country and
they have a history of a program will shut down but then it will
reopen under a different name. Yeah.
And a lot of people open another program or the directors will
move around to all these different locations we're even
seeing Certain groups that had multiple facilities shut down
all of a sudden, they're open under a different name and it's
the same people who own them, they just found it a new
Healthcare Company. Yeah, to go that route or they
bring in a different investors so they could put their names on
something. And then with the history of the
TTI, what we're seeing is really there are other groups behind
the scenes that really promote and focus on these programs.
The founder of my program actually, founded one.
That is out there that certifies and it.
I didn't see these programs and their approval seal goes on
every single website for every one of these programs and you're
seeing thousands of facilities with this one stamp of approval
and it just grows and grows and they have a whole industry of
what we call Educational Consultants which are people who
are paid to recommend schools like that's what I want.
My next question, Educational Consultants.
If you were going through this as a parent, would you get an
educational consultant to find you a program?
No, I would not and this doesn't Just my because of my history.
Yeah, in general. I would not because a lot of the
times what we're seeing statistically is that
Educational? Consultants are told about these
programs but they're not doing the research that's involved,
they're not going back and looking at the history of a
program and seeing if there were lawsuits, if there were abuse
cases that were going on, we're seeing Educational Consultants
promote programs these days in which children are dying.
Yeah, and when they did visit, they visited our program on.
Both occasions. We would be show ponies that
would pick three or four girls that had Advanced very far
through the program. Had been there for months.
We would eat in a separate dining hall, eat a separate meal
cooked by a different Chef. We would talk to them about
different things that we're going on and they weren't asking
the questions about what the actual process was.
And I mean, you can find great programs without an educational
consultant. I went to a residential program
at McLean Hospital before my time in the troubled teen
industry saved my life. I've changed my life
evidence-based, highly effective, my parents were very
involved. Can't speak highly of it enough.
No, educational consultant. Help them find that program.
They did that research themselves.
No. And you know, to touch base on
what you were saying about how they kind of show Pony children.
That's what these programs do with parents as well.
That our perspective for these programs.
Yeah. You see these beautiful flyers
and brochures. You see all these images online
of children's smiling. Riding horses from A pool
playing at a lake and the reality of the program is not
what you're seeing in those photos because they do exactly
what you just described. They know that they're going to
have say five perspective, parents on campus, they will
select those few children or in the case of my program.
They did what they called field days.
All of a sudden there were Inflatables there was cotton
candy machines and the parents weren't taken down to that area,
but all they could see from a distance was all these children
running around a lake side or a sock.
Soccer field, having fun. And then there will be three or
four specific children who were chosen to guide them around that
had a script almost that they were to follow and certain
questions we were told to direct them to other people.
We were not allowed to answer specifics on what our therapy
was like we could only answer specifics on what your daily
schedule. I wake up at 6 a.m. we cleaned
our dorm rooms, we have breakfast, we go to school.
After school there's activities. We have dinner, we have study
hall. We go to bed on the weekends.
Sometimes we watch a movie. We go down in the student center
and that was our script and they do that with the Educational
Consultants, as well as the parents.
Just so there is no liability from them coming from a future,
prospective parent or educational consultant says.
Hey, maybe something's wrong here.
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So, to put some numbers to this, how many teens are within this
industry and it's very profitable, which I think a lot
of people don't realize. So if you could kind of give
some numbers to listeners about a, how many humans either
currently there or have gone through these programs and then
how much these programs are making as a whole from profiting
off this very vulnerable population.
So what we're seeing statistically as right now,
there's upwards of probably 2,000 programs that are up and
running right now. Student wise children within the
programs, we're seeing anywhere from 150 to 200,000, children,
being affected at these moments. We cannot even begin to put a
number on the amount of children that have been through something
like this. Yeah.
After 20 years of being outside of a program and being part of
different Survivor communities, some of these communities that
are on social media, have 7,000 members, some of them have
30,000 members, the history of these programs, how long they've
been running, we really can't put a number two.
How many have been through. A situation like this.
But when you talk about the profiting that these programs
are making, it depends on what realm you're talking about.
The prophet coming from, there's multiple avenues that these
programs make money, they make them off of parents who have the
money to pay cash. That is one way that they Market
this, they use healthcare insurance and they have gone.
Now, as far as to using Tricare and military veterans, health,
insurance to help pay for these programs, the federal government
and the juvenile court. Systems have paid into these
kind of systems. Because when you have a child in
foster care, that's struggling that sent to one of these
programs or a child is court-ordered.
The government or the state ends up paying, and right now to
Wishin it drastically ranges. But I mean, we're looking, if
you're talking about a residential treatment center, it
could be upwards of 12,000 dollars a month.
It could be something. Some programs charge, something
like forty thousand dollars a month.
If you're looking at a Wilderness Program, which is a
whole different realm of this in, Mystery of wilderness.
Therapeutic treatment where children were gone for 70 or 80
Days hiking out in the woods that could cost apparent upwards
of a thousand dollars a day. So talk to me about Wilderness
programs because I feel like that is one of the most common
first points of entry into this industry, what exactly is a
Wilderness Program and to your knowledge, is there any research
supporting Wilderness programs and positive outcomes for these
diagnoses? That's a great question.
So when looking at Wilderness programs about the ideal is the
model were finding really started in about the 1940s in
Texas. Hmm.
There were other models that really try to prove how
effective this was that came out of places like BYU in the 60s.
Yeah, of course, I'm BYU, it's always BYU.
My school is run by more minutes, the religious tie and
especially the Roma Utah, its massive.
Yeah, the model is supposed to, be you strip, a child of all
conveniences. They don't have access to email
or Asian or cell phones. Social media worse showers is a
big one Foods. A massive one.
Medical Care is the other big one.
But what they do is they really promote this idea that we're
going to take your child out, where to strip them of those
conveniences. We're going to teach them how to
take appreciation for those things that they no longer have,
and we're going to do therapy with them on a daily basis.
Well, that therapy's consisting of hiking all day long.
I mean, you know, we're not, we're not just talking like a
mile or two we're talking. 13 14 miles were talking that they're
carrying backpacks, that have 70 or 80 pounds.
And so, then everyone to build their own backpacks with tarps
and sticks. Yes, there was one associated
with my program that also shut down, where they actually Force
the children. How to learn how to make a raft
out of their backpack so that they could safely cross a river.
Okay? But what we're seeing is that,
when they're doing all those hiking, the children are
malnourished. They're not getting the
appropriate amount of water. The food is very Very basic.
It could be something as simple as just a bowl of rice.
It could be something towards the effect of already feel it,
all depends, but we're seeing evidence.
Now are programs where the children don't even have correct
hiking boots. They're wandering around and
rubber flip-flops and the desert in the middle of the winter
because their feet need to breathe after they have boots on
and they're being told that if they want to eat and they want
to have a hot meal, figure out how to start a fire with sticks.
They've taken this back to a very primitive level.
But then in return, they are padlocking these children's
tents at night and putting motion alarms on them.
So these children aren't allowed to get up to go out to the
bathroom in the middle of the Wilderness.
They're basically handed a jug and said, you know, here's your
bathroom. I know that you're upset with
someone else, privacy doesn't matter.
They strip you of all basic rights as a human but also has a
child and they really, really pushing this.
And as I said, these programs are costing to parents upwards
of a thousand dollars a day and they're promoting things
nowadays. Such as technology addiction,
we've found a program that is taking children as young as
eight for sexual addiction, Wow. And then they promote and this
this goes hand-in-hand with not only the residential treatment
facility is but also the Wilderness facilities that were
saying they'll tell a parent, your child 90 days, we'll have
them fixed at the end of 90 days, they're coming back and
saying, you know what, there's still some issues.
We need to keep them another 90 days.
We'll all of a sudden your child's there, seven months
instead of a month and a half when it comes to residential
treatment facilities were seeing the same, the same conversation.
Your child hasn't done the therapy, like they're supposed
to, they haven't moved up the levels.
They need to. So they need to stay here longer
and they will continue to keep a child as long as insurance is
paying or the parents are going to pay the cash.
Yeah. But on the flip side of it, the
parents don't realize the expenses are not only what
they're paying for tuition programs.
Are now coming in saying, hey, there's this therapy.
It wasn't included in tuition, we need you to pay for this.
Oh hey, by the way, a bottle of body wash that you know, was a
Suave brand is going to be $40 to you instead of a dollar 85
that it costs at Walmart. Yeah.
And parents aren't seeing those costs associated until well.
After the fact, what about children that are referred from
Wilderness programs to therapeutic boarding schools
owned by the same company. You get hooked for four weeks,
you're like, 90 days in the woods but then they're, like, no
12 months at the school. I mean, that's one of the,
that's one of the most common practices that is out there.
In this industry is every one of these schools has an association
with Some sort of psychologists some sort of consultants, and
then they're tied somehow to one of these Wilderness programs.
So that if the child is being too extreme within the
Residential Treatment Center, there's a Wilderness Program
that they can go to, and then they could come times at my
school, it's a real thing. Yeah, I mean, well, at my
program at him like Academy, that the Wilderness Program was
less than half a mile on the same property owner.
So, if you were acting out too much, you were just sent down
the road across. Bridge into the woods to a
program owned by the same school.
Wow. And that's just such a common
practice that we're seeing is this back and forth.
Because all it does is it keeps money flowing back and forth
into this system, and we're talking that this is an over a
billion dollar industry. Yeah, they're really finding any
aspect they can to make that money.
So if they partner with a Wilderness Program, it's well,
if we refer them, is there a cut that they're receiving?
We don't know. We're not seeing those
statistics because they're hiding those things.
From us. Yeah, we have our suspicions.
You also don't see this, an adult Mental Health Care.
Never wouldn't adult be put in the woods without their consent
because that that like agreeing to participate is so crucial in
adult mental health care. That's not there in teens you
don't have to consent and also like you mentioned they're
telling these very vulnerable parents, exactly what they want
to hear which is Help you. We have the solution.
We know your child is in pain and we can solve this problem
for you which is what makes this so saddening.
So many parents don't realize what's going on at these
programs. Well, no, when I mean, you know,
the other realm That You Don't See in adults or with adults,
necessarily is something else, it's not as talked about within
this industry, you don't see. Two gentlemen, showing up at
2:00 in the morning. Dressed in all black, kicking
your door open and saying you're going somewhere against her will
and then escorting. You on a bus or Or a plane or in
a car or on a train, however, to get somewhere that you go
against your will across state lines.
But with children parents will hire these people because that's
what the programs are. Recommending a kidnapping.
Yeah, it really is. I mean and it's happening across
state lines. It's almost it's on the same
level as human trafficking. Yeah.
And it's so traumatic. Almost all of the girls that
were at my boarding school. They called it gooning and they
remembered vividly at three am. These people showing Up in their
home and the parents legally have to watch.
So that the kids know, that are quote, unquote know that they're
not actually being kidnapped by a stranger, but then you're
taken by these people physically forcefully to this program,
without your consent, without any knowledge beforehand, and
it's extremely traumatic well, and then you're witnessing
nowadays. They have regulations that
state. If there are other children in
the house, make sure that they're not around to witness
this. Yeah, you know, 20 years ago.
That wasn't the case anyone that was in.
The household and now they're actually telling parents let us
into the house while you will stand outside the house.
And you're having young women young men children because we
are seeing programs that take children that are younger than
the teenage level that are forcibly removed from their
home. They don't know where they're
going, they don't know what play in there.
Getting on, there is no information generally.
They're going to be handcuffed her zip-tied and these programs
promote will transport them if they resist us and we know
there's would be an issue at the airport will transport them
until they give in and then we'll jump on an airplane.
Yeah, were so intimidating that a child will given soon believe
me with the size that we are. This child will give in very
shortly. We're seeing that constantly as
a promotion for these programs. And these programs utilize.
I don't know. There's probably 30 of these
transport companies out there that there are all well known to
the industry. Yeah, and you just go on the
website you like book your fifteen hundred dollar child
transport. Come tomorrow.
It's the craziest thing. Yes.
So for Parents that are listening to this episode in our
like, my child needs help. We've tried everything.
What should you look for? What are these red flags in
programs on websites? Talking to people to be aware of
where you're like? Something might not be right?
I don't know if I should send my kid here.
So, there's numerous ones that we look for when we see red
flags, first and foremost, if you talk to a school and they
tell you that there's going to be limited communication with
your child, at the beginning of their program, that is one of
the most major. Red flags communication is one
of the highest levels of control that they have because they will
monitor every word. A child says to make sure that
the child isn't quote-unquote, not manipulating the parents
into getting out of the program. Also if something Extreme has
happened like a child goes, the hospital.
Child has died. They don't want that
information. Getting back to the parents so
they will control. What has said they will cut off
communication or they will say, you can't call your child.
You can only send them a letter and they read these letters back
and forth. I Remember, so what I was in a
mental hospital or when I was at MacLean, I called my parents
like three times a day. We would check in with a chat,
we have therapy. I just wanted to say hi, I could
call them. I could call friends.
If they were approved and healthy continents, we'd open
access to a phone when I went to the school Montana, not only
were you not allowed to call a parent until you were on the
third level, which sometimes took kids six months to get to
right? Were granted a social call.
If say, for a birthday it was supervised.
I remember just getting These phone calls and sobbing and
refusing to asked to leave because I was told, if you asked
to leave, you haven't accepted the program, that's a red flag,
you'll get put back on an earlier level.
But then, once you did get on the third level, you got that
social call, it was five minutes.
Monitored once a week, and that was all within my program.
I think I was three minutes of a phone call a week.
It's crazy. Monitored, I was allowed to talk
to at the beginning. I was only allowed to
communicate with my aunt and uncle who are my Guardians who
had sent me to the Graham. Yeah, about four months and I
was allowed to email on monitor Communications to my mother and
my grandparents and then it was like 16 months and I could have
to approve friends that I could talk to 20 months in.
I was allowed to see those friends when I went home for a
visit, which are, you know, those are the other red flags.
You look for when they tell you that you're not allowed to see
your child for months, upon months upon months, red flag,
child played my parents flew out every weekend, we spent the
night together. We'd go and practice.
Building. Our relationship that was
essential in moving forward in this program because that family
relationship was so crucial and pivotal in recovery herb.
I think I was a year in the program before I was allowed to
go outside of the city limits of where my program was with my
parents. And my parents only lived, 45
minutes to an hour down the road.
Yeah. And they still had no access
because Leaving inside one of the other big red flags.
If a program asks you to sign over 51% of custody or give
power of attorney. Over the child, massive red
flag. That's like if you went to get
your appendix out in the hospital said I'm sorry actually
this random person and accounting is going to need to
own you for the next 48 hours while we do this procedure, that
would not happen and yet this corporation owns me for 14
months. Exactly.
We and, and what they do is, they'll tell the parent.
Do you have the right to remove your child?
But if you do well, like all the tuition you paid and all these
things that you paid, we can't refund anything.
There are certain steps that we now have to go through because
they really do request. Guardianship other red flags are
if they actually promote any sort of isolation or restraint.
Yeah, massive red flag. Another big one that we look
into is look up, the quality of the staff we tell every parent.
Well, we do not recommend placement in any program with
our organization. If parents are hesitant, and
they still want more information.
Look up the qualifications of the staff that are at the
school. I think we saw a medical
director at a program. What a degree in Zoology?
No, that's insane. No one point.
There was someone with a masters of education fully doing therapy
with girls. At this school there is no
psychologists on staff. Our day-to-day staff that we
spend the majority of our time. Time with had a high school
diploma with no history of mental health experience and
they were trained on site with whatever the other staff members
told them. There was, we had staff
turnover, we found a program where the highest level of
Education, someone who had was a interior design degree and they
were actually the director of the entire program.
Oh my god, when you look at these programs you're seeing
that generally the highest level that you're going to see a Is
dealing with the child, the highest level of degree, they
have is going to be like a licensed social worker.
Yeah. That doesn't mean that they're
qualified and trained. Understand the therapeutic
techniques that are valuable a lot of these people don't
understand what trauma based evidence is and how that affects
therapies or models. A lot of them don't have an
understanding of neuro Divergence e and what different
therapies, can help someone that is labeled ADHD or autistic.
If you want to look at what are the qualifications, are the
school's religious-based. Because if they are
religious-based, generally what we're saying is not every
program. But generally what we're seeing
is, if your child goes for religious based program and they
have any conflicts with their sexual identity conversion
therapy will be used. Yeah, and we're seeing that as
spread across the board, but we're just seeing unqualified
staff. We're seeing teachers that
aren't registered. We're seeing nurses.
Well, let me not one of my teachers.
My science teacher was the boyfriend of another staff
member. He happened to do a semester of
medical school before he dropped out to work in the forest
service. And for that reason, he was
qualified to be our science teacher to teach all of the
science classes. Yeah.
But I brought this up and I was like where is your teaching
degree and actually accidentally made him cry because I was, what
qualifies you to teach me? This, like, I'm now a student at
the University of Pennsylvania. Like my education was very
important to me. I was like, this is a question
that has to be asked. Yeah, I mean at my school, our
Spanish teacher is also the head of our kitchen, of course, and
he was the Spanish teacher because he had worked in
kitchens and had learned how to speak the Spanish language
tacos. You know, it's there cleaning
that they have nurses on staff. These people, these women these
men aren't qualified to be giving out medications.
Oh my God our Tech guy would pay and out medications.
He accidentally Gave ADHD meds to some random girl that was not
prescribed them and he was like, oh, sorry.
Oops. Well, you know, you see that,
Jesse, it's mind-boggling. How many of these unqualified
positions you see? I mean, I think when I look back
to my time 20 years ago, our addictions counselor had lost
his license to practice in 1992 for abuse of medications at a
rehab facility. He was the one abusing the
medications when He was hired by your school, they just told
everyone they had a certified addictions.
Counselor parents don't think to look into the certifications.
There are databases where you can legitimately go online and
look and see if someone's registered as an RN or if
they're registered as a social worker.
And I think one of the greatest quotes that we've seen come out
of, anyone was Maya salivates, who's an author who wrote a
massive book on this industry. One of her direct quotes was if
they made sure that every staff that came in contact with a
child had a master's level. Well, degree and was qualified,
the industry would effectively shut down overnight.
Yeah, because that was exactly how it worked at MacLean.
That was not how it worked at Montana.
It's night and day. Well, they're all, I mean,
they're also utilizing things I know from my time almost all of
the not not our therapists. But most of the day staff that
worked at our school, all had some sort of like Social Work
degree from Canada, that they got a lie, they had never had.
They had never actually had physical interaction.
Our job fields, they were brought from local colleges
because we're seeing that more and more.
Now as we're seeing the 18 year, olds coming to these programs to
work as a day staff. Then they become a mentor and
they could grow with the program and you're talking you have an
18 year old male or female who's just out of a program
themselves. A lot of the time or they're
just out of high school and they're dealing with children
who are very close to their age and then the program is want to
know why their sexual abuse happening.
Yeah, you're putting children In Harm's Way.
Yeah, with every decision they make with the under qualified
knowledgeable, and then when you look at the therapeutic
programs, I mean, I think we saw a new therapy pop up at a
program in Maine, where they call it neurological Reset
Therapy. Oh boy.
And it's supposed to be like, hypnotism and bringing your body
back to its natural homeostasis. So you can relearn how to do
things. That's not evidence, based
proven therapeutic tactic. Know, I would love to hear you.
Talked about accreditations and certifications for Programs, not
sap is a huge thing that these programs boast.
So now that's a that's that was actually who I was referring to
earlier the founder of my program actually helped finance
some found that sap and that was in 99.
So we're 23 years of a group like this out there.
You know they change their stances on things a lot over the
history of time about what they were looking for how they they
don't necessarily a credit is what we're learning.
They are a membership-based organization.
These programs are paying them for the stamp of approval from
the knowledge that we're seeing. And you know, we're tending to
see that. We think that the membership
gets them access to courses that teach them how to fundraise
courses. That teach them about the
specific laws different therapeutic techniques when you
actually go to their website and you see the conferences that
they have yearly you can look up course by course by course who's
presenting what program they come from?
I would as I said I wouldn't say their accreditation they're not
accrediting but they are sponsoring.
Yeah. And they're giving their stamp
of approval. V.
Sadly, there's massive ones like The Joint Commission, The Joint
Commission is tied to the US Healthcare System.
I mean I don't think there's a hospital out there in the u.s.
that doesn't have some sort of The Joint Commission.
Yeah, but they're not seeing what's happening.
They're not getting the reports. This is Montana had not
inspected my boarding school in 10 years, they apparently
oversee these programs, they had not set foot on campus and yet
there was no quote, unquote issue.
Ooh, or problem with that in 10 years and the City Utah
oversight, is they actually go in and count how many toilets
there are per child and that's how they determine whether it's
things. You know, we sadly have seen.
There was a death at a property in Utah in February.
Yeah, the school's license had been revoked to operate.
They appealed it. The state said we're going to
have a hearing this past Monday. There was no hearing the state
settled with them. And said, oh, we'll give you
some governance. You can keep operating.
Well, you've had a child You've had one that's been in news
about massive neglect, for medical care, and, you know, the
government doesn't see these things.
They don't have enough proof coming out.
Yeah, because all of us children from these programs can say what
happened to us, but our records aren't showing that that's even
if we can get records because most of us cannot get our
records in the state. I can't even get my high school
transcripts. My school was not certified
legally by the state as an educational center, I no longer
have high. All transcripts.
Wow. So here I am 20 years later.
If I hadn't gone to college at all, I would be looking to have
to take my GED to get a job. After I went through schooling,
the states don't see these things legislators are starting
to see these things. I know that there's two
legislators from Oregon and Washington to centers.
Have actually opened up recent investigations into four groups,
that own programs to get information like that there's
been since 2007 or something like that.
There's been like for National level investigations but the
outcome doesn't change. Yeah, because there's not enough
record improved, that's physical.
And it's teens, the Well, that would be sitting on a witness
stand, our kids. And again, you had no access to
technology. These records are being written.
These patient notes are completely different from what
you're experiencing like. How do you even remember every
little thing that happened during like you and twenty nine
months of your life? Well, and there's a statute of
limitations on when and what you can do and most of us from just
the overall community that I've met.
And I've been at, you know, I've had the privilege of getting to
know and work with Most of us walk away, and it's like years
down the road. Yeah, that's something kind of
snaps and goes, wait, something wasn't right there was a
problem, because when you're in these situations, you start
blocking things out. And you're told, it's okay.
You're told that this is therapy, this is treatment,
everyone around. You is doing the same thing and
you see this abuse and you see things, but it becomes just
general everyday. Like, you know, my parents being
told, it's okay, I'm okay. You start to learn how to deal
with it, cope with it, but a lot of us block out Recollection and
then all of a sudden it's 12 years later.
Someone says something, and something snaps, and you're
triggered and by that point, it's too late to get the Justice
you deserve. And for me, I'm a big fear.
I got out of that program. When I was seven, sixteen
Seventeen something like that, there's that fear of doing
anything. Because even though my parents,
they didn't realize this program was as bad.
They would never knowingly. Do anything to Put Me In Harm's
Way? You still again?
Don't have full autonomy over yourself your company.
Custody could be signed over. You could go back to these
programs until you've passed that birthday and you have
autonomy over yourself. Well, any that fear Starts day,
one of the program. Yeah.
You were constantly afraid of any consequence that could come
from your actions from day one because every program is
different but as a you know it's not only isolation restrained,
that's used but don't neglect, your food, don't neglect, you
water and my program but we had a section of.
It was called restrictions guys. Online girls.
The other we did upwards of an hour and a half to two hours of
army, physical therapy, exercises a day.
We were building staircases and mountainsides.
We were depleting the campus. We were building rain diverts.
They had one punishment where they would actually have the
group lift up. Telephone poles, carry them
across, basically a football field, dropped them.
And then they say, oh, we don't like where that looks pick up
the telephone pole, move them back.
We're we're doing laundry. We're scrubbing things.
We were hired to Child labor. Yeah, we're seeing a program in
Missouri right now where the owner has actually specifically
on his own personal Facebook page.
Reached out to the public and says I will pay you to take
children off my campus from like 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m.
Saturdays and Sundays. I will pay you a hundred twenty
dollars per child and the people in the town or the people that
he knows are responding saying, well, they do manual labor and
he will say they will do whatever you ask them to do, or
what your family is doing. For that day, he is now
literally prostituting. Turn out so that he doesn't have
to deal with them so that other people could benefit off child.
Labor crazy. Because again, likely he is
their Guardian legally. He has control over legally.
He can do that. Yes, and that's where you begin
to become afraid of every move. Every thought you have every
decision, you make, and then you leave the program and you're
constantly looking over your shoulder.
You're constantly questioning yourself, was that the right
choice? What's going to be the negative
consequence that follows and that could follow?
You know, we see people who were in their He's now that it's
ended programs in the 80s and 90s that are just seeing this
part of how they were affected. Yeah, because it's nonstop.
Yeah, is a traumatic experience. So two questions, one is what
can listeners do if they want to help change the troubled teen
industry, they haven't experienced it themselves, but
they want to help work towards this increase.
Legislation support these programs being shut down, what
are those steps? And then the second question
will be how do you support a Survivor or someone that's
currently? In one of these programs.
So I think the first step is, you know, obviously spread
awareness Word of Mouth. Yeah, that goes a long ways
pertaining to something you mentioned earlier.
You know, if you see that your friend has been sent away your
friend disappears, in the middle of night, you find out that
they're at a program, find out what the program is.
Contact a group like Breaky code silence or I Kappa find one of
these anti troubled teen industry, advocacy groups, reach
out to them. Our group provides things that
we call facility reports. We are Happy to provide all
research that we have. That shows abuse cases, lawsuits
program, history, staff Supply, that to the relevant people.
If you want to get involved, if you go to the breaking code
silence website, we have buttons where you can apply to become a
volunteer, we have numerous things, we need.
Researchers that go in and dive and find out the information on
these programs. We have an active legislation
team that is working on not only Federal legislation but State
legislation. Anyone who's interested in that
were more than willing to help. Help them learn the process.
He have research grants that were working with.
We have a Publications Division. If you're a writer and you've
experienced a facility like this, or you have a friend and
you want to talk about that, we have a realm for you to voice
that story. We're open to anything when it
comes to just spreading the word and helping that get out there.
When it comes to helping survivors.
While we are not a support group, we cannot provide
therapies. We cannot provide You know legal
recourses and things like that, but were there.
Yeah, most of us have this common shared experience.
We're there to talk. Were there to listen.
We're there to be a shoulder for someone when they need it.
We're a group of the way, the organization exists.
Right now, I am on the phone with my team Daley, and we will
be business business business and then something comes up and
everything gets put to a stop. So we can listen to someone
because all of a sudden, something happened.
Something Reconnected they reconnected to something, they
were triggered by something were there to listen and support.
We're there to help point you towards resources.
You know. Well we cannot necessarily
recommend therapists. We cannot recommend lawyers or
anything like that. We do try to help you locate
that right person. We try to teach about the
different levels of therapy, what therapies are proven and
evidence-based that do work. It's so important and even if
being a support system, like you mentioned, these programs are so
isolated being one of As friends from home, that I was able to
talk to that, you mentioned, being able to see being able to
connect with that person and be. That one thing tying them back
to this life outside. This super isolated environment
can be so helpful and so beneficial and was such a
Lifeline for me when I was navigating this and made that
transition easier because it didn't feel like I was leaving
this program and had no one that even knew what I had gone
through. Well and I think I think that's
the major key thing is that that time of leaving the program and
readjusting to what actual normal society is is one of the
hardest things for any child that leaves a program.
No matter what age, I almost like to think of it as there's a
25 year Gap where that transitional period happens.
Yeah like it's not an immediate transition because you're
starting to question things, you're letting teenagers who
have had no sense of Freedom out in the world and you're dropping
them off. You know, some of them I think I
was out of the program a month before I went to college.
Each, it's crazy and all of a sudden it's going oh there's
fraternity parties. There's drugs.
What's this? What's that?
I never had those experiences to tell me what was right and what
was wrong and you have to learn in it.
And sometimes as I said it's 225 years.
Sometimes it's 30 years for people and we're really making
that effort to try to find out how we can be a more support in
that transitional period. How do we help people?
Is it just to be there to listen?
Is it to find out what the statute limitations is for them
to get Justice? You know, how do we little
things like pop culture? Someone went into a program a
year two years ago like Trends Tick Tock the music.
People are listening to the shows that they're watching the
language. They're using these things
they've been completely isolated from.
I was in an all-girls program, your ability to date and have
relationships. You would see a lot of different
ways that girls reacted, after coming out of the program,
education-wise I was at a huge deficit with what I had learned
in Montana. Versus what was actually going
on at a normal public high school.
And I know, I mean, I think I failed, I was in college and I
feel pre college algebra 3 times because my algebra teacher had
no clue what he was. Teaching me with Calculus.
We watched no wedding videos every single day, like the test
were open note like you learn nothing but you got the great.
It's like, the craziest thing to adjust from and it takes time.
Yeah, I just, I'm so grateful for you for giving so much
insight into this, and so much valuable information on how
parents Parents can look for these programs and make sure
that they are sending their kids to reputable evidence, based
mental health care if that's what's needed.
And for teens, what? To be aware of how to support
people. And yeah, I'm just so grateful
for you for opening up and having this conversation with
me. No, no, I appreciate you having
me on it. I think the one thing I can say
is that for any parent that listens to this the one thing
that we advocate for his keep the family together.
Yeah. You're going to see probably
more issues of attributes in a way in.
Dissociation from the family afterwards and stronger
divisions between the family. Try to find those therapies that
you all can do together as parents with your children.
There's wraparound Services. There's different things.
If your child has diagnosis, is you could take the same therapy
as your child does to learn about those diagnosis and how to
better communicate. I'll just do your best to keep
the family together, but I appreciate you bringing
awareness to this because there are Realms where people talk
about it, but there's not very many Realms like this where
people actually get to have a discussion on Deeper level so I
appreciate everything you're doing to focus on this.
Yeah, the last question I want to leave listeners with is.
If there was one thing that you wish the general public knew
about the troubled teen industry.
What would that be? That's a hard question.
Yeah. You know, I think that I would
leave the general public with a knowledge of that.
This isn't just surface-level things, this is 10 miles wide 10
miles deep. It touches facets of life that
people don't understand. It does.
And it affects more people than you.
Think it does you probably come across Cross more people in your
life that have been affected by this industry than you ever
realized. And just to start taking notice,
and to be aware that there are people out there harming
children to make money. Yeah, it's so true and the more
you're aware of it. The more you realize, how much
it is around you. Because again, so many teens
have experienced this or know someone that has experienced
this because the Teen Mental Health crisis is rampant,
depression and anxiety rates are higher than they ever have been
before. And I think, because of that
increase, we saw during covid-19 Can you increase in these
programs and, and teens, and them as a response to that, as
Parents try and get their teens help in whatever ways, they know
how covid. Definitely had an effect with
how parents responded to their teenagers and started looking
for help. Even like you talked about an
absence of medical care or medical neglect with covid.
I think that just got so much worse because they're dead, you
were so isolated. There was no reason, no
communication between patients and parents of this person has
covid or they might have And also, these programs are a lot
of the times and pretty conservative States.
So vaccinations and masks and all these things that maybe you
might have a choice about at home.
You might not necessarily have it your program.
So it just brings exactly another layer into this mess.
I completely agree with you. Yeah, all right.
Well, for listeners to continue to learn about breaking, code
silence, and learn about what you guys are doing.
Where can they find you? You can find us at
www.breakupbrad.com dot org and then on Social media, we're
going to be breaking code silence or breaking code side.
One, that's just breaking code. Si1 you can find us on all those
different platforms. We do have a Facebook pages
Instagrams. There is a YouTube that we're
revamping. Also if you just type in
Breaking code silence on something, as simple as
Tick-Tock you were going to be exposed to a whole new realm of
personal stories and those that are out there advocating.
Yeah, and if you remember, one thing from this conversation, if
you ever hear of a program you're ever considering or
program, a friend, is going all you have to Google is the
program name, Survivor stories or the program name breaking
codes islets. And you will very quickly
realize if it's a troubled teen Industry Program or not.
And if you don't see anything popping up, we do have a place
on our website where you can report a facility and it gives
you all the information if you are a survivor of a program.
If you're a parent who has concerns or friend, we do have
places for you to report and also gives you all the direct
links. You need to report them to the
state to report medical license. Anything like that.
So there are those resources available with all the different
advocacy organizations. All of us.
Have those awesome? Well, thank you so much Bobby.
Again, I'm so glad we got to do this and I know this
conversation is going to help so many people.
Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for listening
to this week's episode of she persisted.
If you enjoyed, make sure to share with a friend or family
member. It really helps out the podcast
and if you haven't already leave a review on Apple podcasts or
Spotify, you can also make sure to follow along at a cheaper
solution. I stood podcast on both
Instagram and Tick-Tock and check out all the bonus
resources content and information on my website.
She persisted podcast.com, thanks for supporting, keep
persisting and I'll see you next week.
Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of she
persisted. If you enjoyed, make sure to
share with a friend or family member.
It really helps out the podcast and if you haven't already leave
a review on Apple podcast or Spotify, you can also make sure
to follow along at at she persisted podcast on both
Instagram and Tick-Tock and check out.
Out all the bonus resources content and information on my
website. She persisted podcast.com,
thanks for supporting, keep persisting and I'll see you next
week.