Hi, hello. Welcome back to nevertheless.
She persisted a podcast with Shady Side.
Today, I'm here to Kayla. Hello.
And we're going to talk about anxiety and worries, and what
it's like to have anxiety experiences.
All That Jazz. Oh, the fun things.
So I'm 16, I'm 15. Yeah!
Tell me a little bit brief bit about yourself, so I grew up in
Texas and I've lived my entire life there.
My parents got divorced, whenever I was in fifth grade.
Aid and my mom is still currently living in the house
that I came home from the hospital too.
So yeah, I don't know. My world has been pretty small
up until the past year whenever I like started my whole
treatment Journey like going to outpatient and then Wilderness.
And now here at a boarding school.
So yeah, cool. I thought I should be just
started beginning. Yeah, sure what is like?
Your first memory of like being anxious or having anxiety about
something that we think these are so funny because they're
like over the worst things ever whenever I was in like
kindergarten. I remember being like the coming
home from school and telling my mom about all these cool girls
who have like cool clothing and like me, wanting to be like them
and And small things like that. Like, I'm a role on.
Go got an iPod for and one for Easter eggs.
I think and I was like, oh cool. I know it is Easter, it looks
like it's really stupid, but I was like, I'm jealous.
I just want to be them and she was like like you need to be
yourself and I was like, but I want myself to be them.
Yeah. So that's probably like my first
dosage of me. Not being comfortable with
myself and be like wanting to be other people, which I consider
anxiety. Yeah.
Yeah, I know when I was really, I think it was like, first
grade, but I had a group of friends and it was like, when
people are starting to sleep over, as I was like, only one
year into this school, but this girl like major Disney fanatic,
like Disneyland, every weekend. All that kind of stuff.
And she's like, are having a sleepover and I was like, Okay.
And she was like, it's on like Tuesday or something which was
like a school night and I was like, okay, and she was like,
it's going to be so fun. We're gonna camp in the backyard
and we're going to put balloons on top of the tent.
And we're going to fly to Disneyland like an up.
And then we'll wake up. And we'll go skiing and sing
with the Chipmunks from the squeak walls and I was like,
okay, okay, I'm coming. Yes.
All right, and I like went home and I was like, Mom She's having
I don't chase a name. Go for it.
I was like, Mom MacKenzie's like having the sleepover like I my I
have to go. And she was like I haven't heard
anything about it. Like I haven't gotten an email
and I was like, literally, in the first grade like no one
goes, someone's house. The parents have communicated,
and I was like, she told me, like she said, it's happening.
We're going in the tent to Disneyland.
Like, I have to be at the sleepover mom on, and she was
like, I'm sorry, like you can't go unless I hear something about
it. And so I remember going to
school and I say and I was just so anxious that people are going
to be going. And I wasn't, I had to like tell
them, I think I can't go to the sleepover and I was just like so
upset about it. Um, but the And then a couple
days later I was talking about it with my other friend who's
supposed to go, and she was like, you know, my mom said I
could go also. But then, your mom talked to,
MacKenzie's, mom, and MacKenzie's mom had no idea.
So, then she was calling all these moms.
And I almost showed up at her house for no reason, and I was
like, okay, so there was no flight to Disneyland, but I had
hope. Yes.
Yes, that was a really long story.
So I was anxious that I'd be like missing out on how to tell
people and I couldn't do something like that again.
I did it for MO is real. Yeah.
Missing out is like totally a thing.
Yeah. And it's like I like hate that
term so much because you yeah, you always think of it as like,
oh, fear of like Peter to see people hanging out but like
whatever I get that. I'm like literally sitting in
the same room and I'm like I'm just not like yeah, yeah yeah
for me it's like anything. I'm from like I don't know,
going to restaurant and like seeing my friends hanging out
without me or like I don't know. They're they're all like,
simultaneously not texting me. And I'm like, they're totally
like talking about me on a different group chatter,
something or even like, sitting in the same room with him and
they're having a conversation about something that I have
nothing. Like, I don't know anything
about. Yeah.
So yeah, you wait on me every single flavor of social anxiety.
That could possibly exist is present.
There's for me, I never really I realized like what I was having
was anxiety, until after first time, I was in the hospital.
Because before then I was just like, in like a consultative,
like, numbness and depression. And then, after that, I
understood what was going on. So, it lifted, like I wasn't
just like numb and not a misunderstanding but I was like
it, immediately reverted to anxiety and it was constantly in
flux. So I was too depressed to be.
Expressing are so anxious. It's like really didn't make a
whole lot of sense. But I just remember after that
point like my parents are so I was much more fidgety and
Restless anxiety, like took much more attention from me than,
like it did before. Yeah.
Um, for me, like, I didn't even know that anxiety was like a
term. Yeah.
And until I was in like second or third grade and then Whatever
I did figure out it was a term I thought like this is an
adjective and I didn't know that it was a lie considered a mental
illness or something like that until like eighth grade.
Yeah, so yeah. Pretty late into my eggs.
Rice field that I even know that it existed.
Yeah. So I feel like that was kind of
like I do want to say incapacitating but like kind of
limited me because I thought that it was a normal thing.
That just no one talked about which kind of played to me
having like, really, really struggled throughout my life
with like sharing, my emotions and being vulnerable with
people. Yeah, so yeah.
What'd like that anxiety. Look like for you like, what did
that feel? Like it presented in so many
ways? It would be like me struggling
to wake up at four School in the mornings?
It would be because you were like to anxious.
You were anxious about legal happened at school.
Of the thing. Yeah, like me, avoiding
schoolwork. And then me getting extremely
anxious about having to tell my teachers that I didn't do my
homework. So, an obvious solution in my
eyes was just not go to school, and then I would miss more, and
then it would just be like this terrible.
Yeah, we're spiral. And then my social life, I just
constantly assume that everyone hated me at all times.
Which I convinced myself was so, I wouldn't ever be disappointed
in quotes. Yeah, but in reality is that one
before. Yeah, back it.
The worst something better is always gonna happen.
Totally. But I just like live the life of
disappointment and sadness and fear.
Yeah. And never really had any true
friends because I never really trusted anyone to ask for what
you need and what you want. And ask and have asking a
request or having our quest for someone might be part of that.
So everyone is entitled to advocate for themselves and ask
for write something. Okay?
So going back to the first one. I gave you, where, it's Miss
that and you like say that you're saying this, I don't
deserve to get what I want or need.
How would you challenge that if you have that thought, like, oh,
here's a good example today, we order takeout because on
counters are getting resealed and I was pretty, I was pretty
pushy. I was like Ruby, we are going to
create fun. We're not going to get Barracuda
or t. Plus like I really want to get
great fight and you said This is happening again, it doesn't
matter what I want because you're just going to get angry.
So we're going to do what you want.
So that's you pretty much having that belief that you don't
deserve to get what you want or what you need.
So how would you challenge that belief?
I am allowed to ask for something that I would want or
need. And I am not allowed to be like
pushed around by other people and their.
Yeah. And they're like requests and
stuff. So like you're challenging that
by saying I have wanted me. It's and that's valid, and
that's okay. And that's part of being human.
You have questions you want answered about therapy,
depression or anxiety, email Sadie's, time dot NS P at
gmail.com or reach out via direct messages on any of the
nevertheless. She persisted social media
accounts linked in today's episode notes.
You can also leave a voice message on anger.
I would love to hear from you. Okay.
The last one that I'm going to do is actually there's two more
that I think are really good. One of them is I must be really
in Adequate. If I can't fix this myself and I
can challenge that by saying I can't fix everything myself and
it's okay to ask for help from other people, is there another
way you would challenge that. Yeah, like it's okay to ask for
help on something because as humans, everyone IO makes
mistakes, you are isn't able to, you know, complete everything.
There is no perfect person around the world so everyone is
able to. Yeah, try it on.
Okay. And the last challenge for the
last myth we're going to challenge is You see the problem
is just in my head if I would just think differently, I
wouldn't have to bother everyone else and I would challenge this
by saying to be effective. Sometimes I need help thoughts
are very hard to change. How else would you charge that
Ruby? Yeah, I would say like wait one
of the ground. Obviously, the problem is just
in my head, if I would think differently, I wouldn't have to
bother anybody. Anybody else.
Well, one thing that really stands out to me, there is like
having to bother someone else, like you're not bothering them,
you're just getting what you need and asking for it.
And then, if the problems just in your head, I mean, sometimes
that is true. But other times, it really isn't
a need to just talk about it. So like As Yang for your help.
Okay? Okay.
So for the rest of the episode, this overview on interpersonal,
Effectiveness. We're going to talk about
clearing price clarifying, priorities and goals and your
interpersonal situation. And next episode, we're going to
do the dear man scale and the episode.
After that, we'll do give and fast.
So clarify my priorities and interpersonal situations So
freebie, I want you to think about.
I want to thank you to think about a situation that created a
problem for you. Maybe you're like values, are
your wishes from being restrict respected?
You wanted someone to change something you wanted to say no
etcetera, Etc. What's a situation that we could
use um a situation where I wasn't getting what I need or a
situation? Where problem arose for you for
me? The other person necessarily it
can be the other person, okay? Um, one example of a situation
like that would be when I was this a random problem.
You're like yeah, just a situation that your values
weren't respected. You wanted someone to do
something differently. You needed to say, no.
Oh, I got into a disagreement with my friend at school and she
wouldn't apologize and I Felt a little bit just respected
because I had apologized to her and she, yeah, done as I had
requested, which were they? So you needed a repair in that
situation from someone else. Okay.
So what was the prompting of that?
Like, what made the surprise, who did, what to whom, what led
up to it? What about the situation is the
problem for you? She had told one of her other
friends, that I was like saying mean stuff to other people,
which didn't happen. And I was like very confused and
got a little fresh and was like, hey why would you go around
saying that? And I just immediately accused
her of that which I probably shouldn't have done.
I should have gone in it with just some more calmness and then
she kind of defended herself immediately as like very
understandably is that I didn't do that but I had had like three
other people tell me she had. So then I said, hey I'm really
sorry. I didn't if it felt like I was
doing that I did not. I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to
do anything like that and then feature, maybe if you could tell
me when it sounds like I'm doing that and I can stop so that it
doesn't sound like I'm trying to like say something mean about
someone else. So you confronted your friend
about talking about, you behind your baton and the problem for
you was that she'd been talking about you and you didn't feel
like there had better repair. Yeah.
Okay so we're going to talk about your objectives.
For what you want, the relationship and your
self-respect. So what specific result did you
want from this situation? What did you want this person to
do stop or except in this situation?
I wanted this person to apologize to me after I had
apologized to them and then maybe go back and tell the
people who she had, you know. Yeah, whispered to about me that
she was sorry that she had done that and then that's not true.
Because okay, so you To repair which for you met and Paula G
and then her circling back to the people and saying that would
happen, wasn't true? Yeah.
Okay. So for your relationship, how
did you want the other person to feel and think about you because
of how you handled the interaction.
I would all the other person to think of me is, I mean return.
And why? Because I was able to like
handle, my emotions and like, interpersonally effective.
Yeah, but I was going to say, So you want them to think that
you're mature, anything else and it personally affected perfect.
Okay. And then, as far as your
self-respect, how do you want to think or feel about yourself
because of how you handled the interaction?
Um, how do I want to think of myself?
I and you want to keep in mind that this is not dependent on
whether you get that repair from the other person, no matter what
the outcome is. What do you want to think and
feel about yourself? I would want to feel happy and
proud because happy because I would know that no matter what
she said, I knew that it wasn't true.
So I would just feel like, okay, I know, maybe I didn't do
something in this situation, but, you know, I'm just gonna
not worried about it. I'm just gonna go on My day, and
I feel proud of myself because I was able to, in that moment,
he's my DBT skills to look at the disagreement in a different
way. And I've come out of it feeling,
you know, good about it based on the outcomes, so it's such a
good. Yeah.
Okay, so I want you to rank your priorities.
So one is the most important to second, third least important.
So between objectives, which we talked about was And repair your
relationship, which was that you want to be seen as mature and
for yourself, you want to feel proud for how you acted?
What is the most important? What is kind of neutral?
And what is least important? I would say, the most important
thing would be to get their repair.
So objective number one, okay? The second I think would be for
me just some self, the self respect self-respect, just
because then in a future it's kind of like positive
reinforcement. I know we talked about that a
couple episodes ago. It kind of helps, it helps boost
your self your self awareness in your ability to be you know your
ability be proud of how the way you handled it.
And I'm third probably the relationship but not to say
that. I don't value their
relationship. Yeah absolutely of course and
you're just Just think, how do you want to approach this
situation? So you are first and foremost,
you're going into this situation, wanting the repair
second. You want to make sure that you
feel good about yourself and you're proud of how you acted.
And third you want to be seen as mature and respectful.
So, is there any like imbalances or conflicts between your
priorities, that make it hard to be effective with your
objective? Your goal of getting your
objective in this situation? The only thing, I feel like
guilty about asking that from her, is there anything like
that? I think that the only thing I
would feel that would like between my first objective, my
self-respect and my first objective, which would be the
repair would be me not fully getting that repair.
But just going straight to feeling very proud of my
accomplishment for using my skills.
Yeah, and then not recognizing that, I still do need something
from the other person in order to reach my second goal.
Yeah. Yeah.
And then later so maybe you would forget that.
Your first goal is the objective and the moment get consumed with
the happiness around your self-respect being met.
Yeah, gotcha. Okay.
But then also like making sure she feels the same about home.
I feel ya, okay, that was awesome.
That was perfect. Yeah, I'm okay.
This is actually kind of funny. So this I did 12 days after I
got to through East and I filled this out for when you and Mom
and Dad relate to come, visit me, do you remember when you
brought me dinner? And we sat in the fish bowl,
okay? So I said it's the same activity
that we just did with Ruby but I did this February 26. 2008 came
to the prompting of Was that parents and siblings relate to
visit? It was from they were there from
5:00 to 7:00 instead of from 4 to 6.
So what in the situation was a problem was that I was anxious.
I was feeling hopeless, worry lonely and depressed.
So checking the facts. It was a misunderstanding about
time and it was on an honest mistake that have been made.
So even though I felt so upset, you guys were late, it was an
honest mistake no miscommunication in time.
So I said, what specific results I want.
I said I wanted to communicate to how That being late made me
feel to them and get an apology as well as validating for the
relationship. I wanted to be seen a skillful
and having good communication. And for my self-respect, I
wanted to feel good productive and that my private priorities
were met and that I prioritized well.
So I hurt eyes, my self-respect, then the objective, and then the
relationship the amounts of in complex for that.
I waited to bring this up again. I don't want to communicate my
emotions. I thought.
So, I don't know if I ever actually said any of this to you
guys. Guys.
No. But I did fill out the
worksheet. See about that interaction cats.
Not So yeah. So that was kind of fun.
Yeah, yes. So really quickly, a review
about what we just talked about, which is clarifying goals.
So, objective Effectiveness is getting what you want from other
person. So, it's obtaining a right, it's
getting another person to do something that you want to do.
It's saying no to an unwanted or unreasonable request.
It's resolving interpersonal conflict, and getting your
opinion of you taken. Seriously, some questions you
might ask are what specific result, or changes to where I
want from this interaction. And what do I have to do to get
these results and what will work?
So, relationship Effectiveness is keeping improving the
relationship. So it's acting in such a way
that That the other person keeps like am respecting you, it's
bouncing your immediate goals with the good of the long-term
relationship. And maintaining whatever
relationships for matter to you because the questions you'll ask
yourself is how do I want the other person to feel about me
after the interactions over regardless of the result?
And what do I have to get or keep in this relationship?
So for self respect Factor - you're keeping your improving
self-respect, so you're respecting your own values and
beliefs, you're acting in a way that makes you feel more.
It acting in a way that makes you feel capable and effective.
So your questions you're asking yourself is how do I know what
to feel about myself after the interaction is over, regardless
of the outcome? And what do I have to do to feel
that way about myself? What will be effective?
So, as we'll talk about in the next two episodes, when you're
trying to get objective Effectiveness, you using the
skill called dear man, when you're doing.
You're using skills called give and thank and when you're
prioritizing, self-respect, you're using a scale called
fast. So, now that we know how to
clarify, what our goal is and decide what we want to focus on
next episode, we're going to learn the skills that you can
Implement those goals and chewy be effective.
Awesome sounds great. So thank you for coming on today
Ruby. I'm excited for come here again.
Yeah, Thursday yeah I might have 50 but I think I can go.
Okay. Okay, sounds good.
So yeah, thank you for listening.
Hopefully this was helpful and yeah last but definitely no like
And subscribe. So, Hopefully this is how good
it was. Thank you.
All right. Bye.
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Nevertheless, she persisted And check out my blog.
Nevertheless, she persisted podcast with Sadie Sutton dot
photo dot blog, and don't worry. All of these are linked in
today's episode notes. Don't forget to subscribe and
I'll see you next Friday. Thanks for listening PS.
Nevertheless, she persisted